[Dori]

Hill’s has removed certain cans of their Science Diet Food. Wondering why it hadn’t appeared anywhere here yet so I thought I’d post the info. If you click on the link you can see which formulas.

Voluntary Withdrawal Hill’s Science Diet Canned Pet Food

• This topic was modified 10 years ago by Dori.

[Jennifer Y]

Hi Kristine,
Sorry to hear about Koji. I unfortunately don’t have much advice for your situation. Since posting about Nimbus’ Nutriscan results, we’ve done a bit of trial and error on raw meat proteins with her diet, but my situation wasn’t as dire as your’s. I can’t imagine what you’re going through right now.

I personally take the Nutriscan results with a grain of salt. She does fine with most of the food she’s apparently reactive to according to Nutriscan. I’ve been giving her Kefir and plant-based digestive enzymes to help break down her food as well, because I do believe she has a sensitive stomach. Maybe try adding those to Koji’s meals?

Regardless, I hope you find answers soon and some extra cuddles for Koji!

[Shawna]

Hmmmmm? Creatinine is only a little high… Something doesn’t jive here. I’m sure there are exceptions to the rules but creatinine is a better indication of how well the kidneys are actually functioning (from everything I’ve ever read). Maybe newer data is suggesting different but data on this site, veterinary medicine dvm360, published in 2011 still agrees “A serum creatinine concentration is the most commonly used measure of severity of renal dysfunction and is the basis for staging chronic kidney disease (CKD) (Table 1). To optimize accurate staging of CKD, serum creatinine concentrations should be evaluated on two or more occasions when the patient is well-hydrated.” http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/laboratory-evaluation-kidney-disease?rel=canonical

Based on a BUN of 77 and a creatinine of 1.6, I personally wouldn’t do low protein but rather moderate amounts of “high quality” protein.

Does your girl have large amounts of very dilute urine? Was there any protein in the urine? Was any other tests done? Is there any other medical conditions? Did you get a second opinion? She doesn’t want to eat often but you said this is just her normal. Does she have any other symptoms such as vomiting, depression etc?

This may help… My Audrey was diagnosed when she was just 13 months old but had symptoms when she was just 6 weeks old. Within the first year of diagnosis I made dietary changes and then had her blood work done every three months. On December 18, 2007 (the second blood work done after the dietary changes) her BUN was 77 (6 to 25 normal) and her creatinine was 1.9 (0.5 to 1.6 are normal ranges for this lab). Audrey didn’t eat a lower protein diet for another almost 7 years.

They also now know that senior dogs actually require MORE protein than adult dogs because they are less efficient at digesting it. Even toy breed dogs – I had a 4 pound Chihuahua live to age 19 eating a HIGH protein diet.

Please take some time to read the articles on this website. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html

Okay……..YES – I would highly recommend starting her on Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It’s pricey up front but will last a long time for a four pound little girl. I’ve never used Five Leaf but others I’ve directly talked to felt it helped. The Primal Defense and Acacia Fiber will help lower BUN. I personally would look at feeding foods with higher quality and amounts of protein and getting rid of the cream of wheat and gravy. See if you can find canned tripe — a brand that is just tripe. There is one out with quinoa but I’m not sure how much phosphorus is in quinoa so not sure it is suitable? It may be, I just don’t know. Tripe itself is higher in protein with moderate amounts of phosphorus. Most dogs really really like it too. You can continue the goat milk (best if it’s raw in my opinion). Eggs are a good option but the yolk is higher in phosphorus so, recommendations vary depending on stage of the disease, you might want to feed more cooked whites then whole eggs (maybe a one to one ratio – one whole egg with one white only). I would also suggest against feeding homemade as it is really important to get the phosphorus to calcium ratios correct and to limit phosphorus to appropriate amounts for the stage of the disease (which is early stage based on the numbers you mentioned—unless your lab normals are way different than mine?). There are recipes online if you want to home prepare. Dr. Meg Smart has a recipe – you would want the one for “early to moderate stage” http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

There’s lots more you can do but you mentioned you have a budget so start with these and then if there’s more for other things you can add on as able–such as herbs that can be helpful.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.

[Susan]

Hi, yes the starchy carbs Potatoes & peas would be causing the yeasty skin problems, I use Cortic-Ds 1% cream (Hydrocortisone acetate 10mg/g cream) from chemist & every night before Patch goes to sleep, that’s if he has red paws & red under chin & around bottom of his mouth…. I look at his paws & if they’re red I get cotton tip & put the Cortic-Ds 1% cream in between his toes & up his paw very lightly, then if Paws are still bad thru the day I bath in Malaseb medicated shampoo…. Malaseb is excellent kills the bacteria on the skin I try & leave the Malaseb on Patches paws I put a face washer on the bath edge & lift his 2 front paws up on the bath edge & then massage his body in the Malaseb shampoo as long as I can, it says leave on for 10mins but 5 mins does the job if you have a dog that hates baths….I’ve been bathing every 5-7 days again now spring is here..

I’ve been cooking for Patch for Breakfast & Dinner, I’m looking at starting K-9Natural Freeze dried, you just add water or they have the Frozen raw, I’ve been giving the K-9 Natural “Green Lipped Mussel” snacks..
Can you feed a raw diet cause that’s the best, as soon as I started Patch on a raw diet all his skin problems went away in 3 days but Patch kept regurgitating the raw into mouth then swallowing it then he was having acid reflux from burping up the raw…I’m making Sauerkraut tomorrow, its a natural probiotic they need a healthy gut once they have more healthy stomach bacteria they wont have these yeasty skin problems as bad…. or Kefir if you can get some kefir for his stomach & get the healthy bacteria to take over….

[Shawna]

Hi Bev A,

I don’t come on DFA, and especially the forums, that much any more so didn’t see your post. Betsy alerted me that you had asked me a question. Thanks Betsy!!

Probiotics and certain prebiotics do help lower BUN – even the Merck Vet Manual agrees “feeding moderately fermentable fiber can facilitate enteric dialysis and provide a nonrenal route of urea excretion.” Unfortunately it seems most vets don’t know this yet. 🙁 http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_small_animals/nutrition_in_disease_management_in_small_animals.html

How high is your baby girl’s creatinine? Creatinine is more indicative of how the kidneys are doing. BUN can be elevated for additional reasons besides the kidneys. Example — feeding kibble (even KD prescription kibble), while simultaneously not getting enough water, can increase BUN. Does she have unlimited access to water and does she drink often? If you are feeding KD kibble, I would HIGHLY recommend switching to Science Diet’s KD canned foods — they have three of them (one is egg based, one is chicken based and one is beef based). Mixing up the canned food could keep her eating better based on her history. IF her creatinin is on the low side of high AND you can get the BUN down by feeding canned food and giving probiotics/prebiotics, you can also consider adding some higher protein, lower phosphorus toppers to her food and see how she does. The Merck Vet Manual has some info on this too. “In addition, research in dogs is also showing that higher protein levels than what are typically used in most therapeutic renal diets is beneficial as long as the diets are phosphorus restricted. Energy should be supplied primarily via feeding relatively more digestible fat and carbohydrates.” As stated, most of the “energy” in the diet should be fats and appropriate carbs but adding the right kinds of protein can help as well as being more appealing. For now, while the BUN is high, don’t mess with adding anything with protein, including treats, to the diet. If she likes organic, extra virgin coconut oil you can add small amounts of that to each meal and blend it in well so she doesn’t pick it out. It won’t add to the BUN. Oh, and I do like raw goats milk.

Changing from a kibbled diet to a canned KD diet should help reduce BUN. Adding a GOOD quality probiotic (I like Primal Defense by Garden Of Life or the product at Mercola Healthy Pets website) and the right prebiotic can help further reduce BUN. Adding the wrong prebiotic (fermentable fiber is another term) can make things worse as they ferment in the wrong part of the digestive tract apparently. The product I found the most beneficial for my KD girl is called acacia fiber. NOW brand makes one. http://www.nowfoods.com/Acacia-Fiber-Organic-Powder-12oz.htm

If she’s never been on probiotics and prebiotics before then I would introduce them slowly over several weeks period. My Audrey was 9 pounds and I gave her 1/2 of a Primal Defense and 1/8 tsp of acacia fiber in her food as needed (when I noticed she seemed off). To start out I would give maybe 1/8 of the probiotic for a few days. Then continue that dose but add a pinch of the fiber for a few more days. Then increase the probiotic to 1/4 but leave fiber at 1/8 for a few more days. If you don’t see any symptoms you might be able to go a little quicker. If you do see symptoms you might want to decrease the amounts being given a bit. Given to quickly to dogs not used to them, probiotics can often have diarrhea as a symptom as an example.

Let me know if you have any more questions for me and let us know how things are going.

Good luck to you and your baby!!!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.

[Coonhound Mama]

Coonhound Dad! 🙂
Glad to see another Coonhound parent on here. Curious as to what kind of Coonhound Maggie is and how long the pea-related carbohydrate problem went on before you solved the issue. We’ve got a rather itchy (no dandruff or any kind of large-scale discomfort) Bluetick and Treeing Walker mix who eats a partial raw and partial kibble diet (kibble containing pea protein).

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi Ryan Y:
I’m new to raw feeding so I will stick to quoting the tried and true veterans of the field, but I do know that you have to be careful balancing phosphorous and calcium ratios as well as avoiding too much Vitamin A (often found in liver and fibrous carbohydrates like pumpkin). An older post in this forum written by Hound Dog Mom on the topic of Raw Feeding has a wonderful recipe she’s come up with (and also tested against AAFCO standards) that seems easy to make and is balanced as a full vitamin and mineral mix. Reminder that these are vitamins and minerals in their dietary form and not their tablet or pill form if that makes sense. I’ll post it here for you as I’ve copied it for my own use and don’t have time to hunt around for the original post!

Hound Dog Mom’s Whole Food Multi-Vitamin/Mineral Supplement (for her large dogs):

4 oz kelp powder
4 oz alfalfa powder
4 oz wheatgrass powder
4 oz spirulina powder
4 oz chlorella powder
4 oz bee pollen powder
4 oz turmeric powder
2 oz garlic powder

I know she also uses apple cider vinegar, cod liver oil, Himalayan crystal salt, calcium citrate, coconut oil and various mixed tocopherols tocotrienols in her dogs’ diet, but these would vary with dog size, age, weight and of course the other food items being fed at the time. Again, if you look through the forums, you should be able to find some of her outstanding dietary advice.

[Jenn H]

Ah puppies & diarrhea. There’s a million causes.
Given that he’s been having to adjust to new environments in his short life I’m going to keep my fingers crossed that it’s just stress/excitement.
To help him symptomatically make sure the rice you give him is white rice. Brown can be more difficult to digest. When you make the rice save the water it’s boiled in and pour it over food and/or give it to drink.
Pumpkin is a great help in relieving diarrhea. 1 tsp/10 #s.
I have also had great luck with probiotics. An easy 1 to get a hold of is Nutri-vet Food Transition. It’s at Petco & comes in packets or tabs. It’s not expensive. Works great.
Then there’s my all time favorite thing and that’s raw goat milk.
When giving probios or goat milk wait 2 hrs before or 4 hrs after meals if on an antibiotic.
If you think he has a chicken allergy you can try giving him organic ground beef w/ the least amt of fat you can get. Boil it like you would the chicken.
I usually get i/d cans when my dogs need to be on a bland diet. It’s a prescription food. But it makes me feel better to add the rice, chicken/beef to supplement the food because then I know it’s balanced. This is obviously a diet that isn’t meant to be fed for too long. Especially with a growing pup.
Ask the vet to hold off on vaccines until his immune system isn’t busy fighting something else or he’s less stressed. Also I personally prefer to spread out vaccines at least 2 wks apart. I don’t do combos. (Except the parvo. It only comes that way.) It’s easier on the immune system and if there’s a reaction I can know which was the cause. And I only do the core vaxx. Understand that I am not an anti-vaxxer. Just not an over-vaxxer. It took me 30+ yrs of raising dogs and other animals to figure out that they don’t need a lot of the stuff we shoot them up with. And the difference between vaccinating and immunization. And what the shots do when an animal isn’t in optimal health at the time they receive them.
Sometimes dogs lick their paws because they have a fungus. That’s not always a sign of allergies. So if eliminating chicken doesn’t help, try looking into that.
Good luck with your new puppy. Congratulations!

[Jenn H]

Everything I have learned about diet for dogs w/ cancer is high protein, low carbs. Not the easiest foods to find and/or afford (if on a tight budget).
Whenever I’ve had dogs with cancer I head right to the integrated vet. He’s great at mixing & matching treatments, diets, supplements, etc using holistic (not necessarily homeopathic) and convential medicine. If you can find a good vet like that it’s worth a try.
Some vet hospitals also have nutritionists that do consults. For a fee of course.
I’m really into raw goat milk. Check out the Primal or Answers site for info on its benefits.
Good luck & good health to your dogs. I hope they all stay healthy & have long wonderful lives. I feel for you.

[Vicky T]

P.S. He is not on any prescription food and wouldn’t eat it if he was
The vet did not recommend anything other than the sub q saline treatments.
When I asked him if there was any meds he could prescribe he said yes but that none would help that much, so we’re kind of on our own helping our little guy feel comfortable.

Prior to being diagnosed he was on a high quality grain free kibble (wetted with water) mixed with a grain free canned dog food but he started refusing to eat that so I’ve been feeding him people food like eggs, cottage cheese, canned salmon and mackerel, chicken and venison. He also likes cooked and raw carrots.
I have some dog probiotics I’ve been giving him and the supplement he’s on is:
Pet Wellbeing Kidney Support Gold…just something I found on the internet.

I will have to look into the homemade kidney disease diet ASAP.

[Jonathan S]

I had that worry the first time I gave turkey necks… my boys swallowed them in big chunks, though luckily there were no problems. I tried giving bigger, solid bones, like lamb shanks, but the amount of fat bothered them a bit.

My solution has been to incorporate ground meats that include bones in their raw diet… specifically ground duck and turkey necks, ground chicken backs, and ground bone it rabbit. I also leave the big, cow femur sections for them to gnaw on during the day.

Hope that helps!

[Coonhound Mama]

Hello all!

I’m a new raw feeder and although I’ve done loads of research on here, in books and around the wide web, I’m still at a loss for how to keep my girl at a proper weight. When we adopted her she was 62 pounds and has swiftly gone down to 57 despite calorie counting and a medium-level fat diet. She is very active (1-2 hours of vigorous cardio per day) and we have a hard time keeping weight on her despite plenty of healthy fats and a partial kibble diet (she’s a 5 year old rescue new to us as of 3 months ago, so we are transitioning slowly).

If anyone has similar experience with large breed athletic dogs and keeping weight on them healthily, please feel free to respond as I am looking for some advice.

[anonymously]

I stopped feeding my dogs raw bones after we ended up at the emergency vet x2 for GI blockages.

Give a Dog a Bone (Not!)–FDA warns of dangers of feeding bones to dogs

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+diet
Also, check the search engine here, example /forums/topic/rectal-issues/

[Jenn H]

I have to say that raw unpasteurized goat milk has been a lifesaver. I wish I knew about it years ago. It’s considered a super food. And I never really thought it was all that it was cracked up to be until I had was so desperate for anything to work in a particular situation.
If you have a certified organic farmer that sells it near you or at a farmer’s market get it. That’s the least expensive.
If you can’t find it locally try a small mom & pop pet store that sells raw diets. That’s where I end up getting it most of the time. My store sells Primal brand.
Online you can try The Honest Kitchen Pro Bloom. It’s dehydrated. More reasonably priced than Primal.
If you look on the Answers website they have tons of info & links about the million benefits of raw goat milk.
Like I said I didn’t believe it til I tried it. Now I swear by it. Since giving it to my dog with Lyme she hasn’t needed any anti-inflammatory drugs and her stomach didn’t get upset from the antibiotic this time.
The puppy has been having diarrhea off & on for some unknown reason. Since giving it to him daily no more diarrhea.
Every morning about 20-30 min before breakfast I give them pure pumpkin mixed with raw goat milk.
It has been a miracle. I really can’t say enough about it. I suggest trying that before spending a ton of money on nutritionists. I really think you’ll find improvement pretty quickly.

[Jenn H]

I have no poblem with vegetarian diets for dogs (that are nutritionally balanced of course). I had a dog that couldn’t breakdown animal proteins. (If there were enzymes available for it then I would’ve given him that instead). He was a vegetarian. But still got his protein from eggs. Which is a food that has the highest biological value. Eventually it was realized that a lot of dogs were having difficulty with the most common meats in dog foods because of the sources & inbreeding of the animals, etc. He did fine with kangaroo & rabbit.
Anyway, vegetarian and vegan diet are NOT the same thing. Dogs have been close companions of humans for 45,000 yrs. You bet they have evolved. They are more omnivorous than ever and actually do best on a diet of plants, grains and MEATS. While they can adapt to a WELL-BALANCED vegan diet, they do best with a diet of animal fats & proteins.
Vegetarian & vegan diets require adding synthetic amino acids. Dogs cannot produce these very important elements themselves. Make sure none of that is sourced from China.
If you go to certain parts of the world you will see lots of dogs on the streets surviving on whatever they find. While that shows they can adapt, I wouldn’t exactly say they are thriving.
As for the dogs that have lived well into their 20s on vegan diets I don’t believe they aren’t getting appropriate proteins somewhere. I would bet they eat other animals. Mice, birds, whatever they hunt unknowingly to their people.
The cattle dog you mentioned admittedly wasn’t vegetarian. But I also have to say that I doubt Guiness followed that dog through its whole life. Who’s to say it was 29? Were they able to prove it by means other than a birth certificate? I couldn’t find any other means used to prove the ages of the oldest dogs. It appears they were (assuming their ages were real) the exceptions. Miracles really.
We all want our dogs to live as long as us with the best quality of life. Sometimes that means not anthropromorphizing them, doing/feeding things that are disgusting to us, but necessary to them. Or making difficult choices that will break our hearts, but will relieve them of pain. They are dogs. They are not humans. We have a great responsibility & are privileged to provide them with everything they depend on.
I only want what is best for anyone’s animals.
It is incredibly selfish to insist that your dog should be vegan because you are. Even if you supplement appropriately it isn’t the same as getting nutrients from the right food source. “Let your food be your medicine.”
I understand some dogs need to be vegetarians for health reasons. I have been there when other options weren’t available until later in his life. As soon as I discovered other choices I tried them. Because he was a dog. I didn’t love feeding him kangaroo or rabbit (we have rabbit pets. His best friend was a rabbit.) But he didn’t know he was eating cute animals. He only knew & cared that he was eating and not feeling bad afterward.
I should mention that I have only ever had GSDs my entire life. None of them that I raised developed arthritis or hd. Others I have adopted/fostered improved almost instantly once given an appropriate diet & exercise for that individual dog. Right now I have 3 dogs and 5 different foods because all of them need different things at the moment.
My point is just do what is best for the dog. Don’t push your beliefs on them. They don’t care. Feed them meat products. Even if it’s just eggs and raw goat milk. But make sure they get a balanced diet. If they live to be 20+ that’s awesome if they are healthy, happy, pain-free. If they live to be a happy & loved 10 year old without any suffering, then you’ve done your job.
Their time with us flies by. Enjoy them fully. Love them completely.

[Shawna]

Hi Courtney,

So sorry, I just now saw your reply to me!!

Yes, I believe Dori is quite satisfied with the support and dietary advice she received from Dr. Wynn. Dori is a raw feeder and feeds pre-made complete and balanced diets so I’m not exactly sure what involvement Dr. Wynn had. Maybe just consult versus diet formulation? I can ask Dori to comment.

A nutritionist, whether credentialed or not, holds no value to me if they don’t have a deeper understanding of how “healthy foods” (like canola oil) 🙂 can be damaging. I want someone willing to think outside the box versus someone to just spout out recipes that simply meet all the nutrient requirements. I’m not sure all the people I listed can do that but I have more faith in them then some others I’ve seen (especially Drs. Becker and Royal). The problem with this is that you might have to spend more on more supplements but, in my opinion, in the long run it pays off with better health. An example if needing canola for it’s Linoleic acid — hemp seed oil would be an alternative having 54 to 57% LA (Dr. Becker recommends hemp seed in her recipe book when feeding a beef diet). Another option, and my personal choice, would be pumpkin seed oil. It contains approximately 64% LA. In addition to that it is high in vitamin E and in chlorophyll which is quite health promoting. It’s likely that a source of Omega 3 would need to be added in higher amounts with these two than with canola but that is definitely doable for most.

There are nutritionists that can formulate a complete and balanced diet and then their are folks that can formulate a complete and balanced diet while doing so with foods that not only meet nutritional needs but also promote optimal health. But I’m sure you understand that as you are trying to get a more personalized, healthier diet. 🙂

I think this article written by a human dietitian explains the problem quite well
“A DIETITIAN’S TRAINING AND ROUTINE

Providing Medical Nutrition Therapy in a nursing home requires credentials as a registered dietitian with the American Dietetic Association’s (ADA) Commission on Dietetic Registration. Training is extensive. In most cases it requires a bachelor’s degree from an accredited college, an internship of nine months to a year working within a clinical setting, and passing a comprehensive exam.

During my clinical training as a dietitian, I was not taught holistic nutrition principles. I did not learn the benefits of herbs, or of the importance of whole foods, probiotics, enzymes, or organically grown foods to good health. I did not learn to use vitamin and mineral supplementation to overcome illness or disease. I did not understand that poor nutrition is probably the cause of most disease and poor health conditions in the first place. I had no idea that we require cholesterol and saturated fat to be well. I did not learn that the nutritional value of grass-fed beef was superior to grain-fed beef, or of the importance of iodine coupled with the avoidance of bromine for proper thyroid function, and so on.

I was taught we should eat less fat and more grain products. I was led to believe that pharmaceutical therapy was necessary and that nutrition made little or no impact in treating an already established condition. My continuing education hours were offered free by the pharmaceutical industry. During these classes I was taught about their “new and improved” Ensure and other products they were promoting.” – See more at: http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/health-issues/a-dietitians-experience-in-the-nursing-home/#sthash.SWFcZ0Bo.dpuf

It’s often more about what you know than what (or even where) you were taught.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.

[C4D]

Hi Michael S,

it’s been a while since you posted, but these links might help. Generally organ meat, even in raw feeding, should be no more than 10 % of the total diet and liver only 5%. I find it’s a bit too rich to use alone, so I often mix with lung and fresh cooked muscle meat. I have large dogs, Labs, and tend to keep the treats slightly bigger than a pea. It’s easy to nibble, get back quickly to training, and keeps them interested in more since they don’t get full.

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/why-organ-meat-is-important-for-the-raw-fed-dog/

http://dogaware.com/diet/treats.html

George B,

I generally don’t treat for potty breaks, but you could apply the above information if you use treats. And treats, even good ones, shouldn’t be more than 10% of the total diet. I foster and find that crate training is very effective in potty training, especially in the beginning. Good luck with your pup!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by C4D.

[C4D]

Dawn A,

I feed raw, but I use a commercial, complete and balanced diet. If you are making your own, please research how to make a balanced homemade recipe. This is particularly critical since your dog is a puppy and nutritional deficiencies and/or imbalances can cause some really big problems as they grow, particularly in large breeds.

Dr. Becker, Whole Dog Journal, dogaware.com are a few places to start.

[charles h]

Hey,

Your definitely not adding enough bone to the diet. It’s very hard with a young dog to get the consistency right. Our puppy refused to eat any chicken bone and we had to literally starve her but it is all we could do to avoid runny stools.

She now eats a full raw diet with no complaints and looks healthier for it. The trick is to not give in and feed her ‘other’ food just to get them to eat.

Stick with raw and it wil work itself out.

[Shawna]

Hi Ken,

I haven’t read through all the comments but I wanted to state that it could be the chicken causing the issue — a chicken sensitivity versus and allergy. Maybe the chicken itself OR what the chicken ate even (since it seems to be brand specific). I’m a raw feeder of multiple dogs (I have six of my own right now and foster) for over 10 years by the way. My Pom gets ulcerative colitis (bright red blood in diarrhea (her’s is almost liquid though)). Chicken is what sets my girl off (only the muscle meat – she is fine with eggs, liver, kidneys etc).

Sensitivities can manifest after the dog (or person) has been on the food for a while. A protein in certain foods, called a lectin, can bind with the gut wall and cause disease. Initially it binds with IgA (an immune system antigen) but eventually the body is not capable of producing enough IgA to bind with the lectin and then you see symptoms. Typical allergy tests test for IgE immunoglobulins so they can’t detect food sensitivities (which are actually much more common than IgE allergies). I understand that the food he gets better on is “boiled chicken” but boiling (at least with legumes) leaches some of the lectins from the food making less for the body to have to deal with. OR possibly the boiled chicken is different than the one causing the IBD because of something the chicken ate (organic grains fed to livestock have lectins too).

Okay, that was just one thought. The other is that the raw chicken drumstick and thigh diet is not a balanced diet. I know, I know……eye rolls and oh not one of those must be balanced nuts. 🙂 hee hee But there really is something to it. Dark meat chicken is an excellent source of linoleic acid (the omega 6 fat that is necessary for health). However when LA is over-consumed and/or not consumed in balance with omega 3 fats it can be quite inflammatory. Although a good source of LA, chicken is deficient in saturated fatty acids which the body also needs. You don’t mention organs which supply other nutrients. This may or may not be a direct cause but it certainly could be an indirect cause.

Hope, whatever it is, you can get it figured out and get back to wonderful health.

[Shawna]

I haven’t worked with any of these folks but have been following them for years.
Monica Segal
Kymythy Schultz
Cat Lane

Dr. Meg Smart is a board certified vet and taught nutrition. She’s in Canada but may do long distance consults. She is a raw feeder and although she uses some products I wouldn’t (like canola oil etc) I do think she would customize further.

Dr. Susan Wynn is another board certified vet nutritionist. One of my friends uses her and is very VERY picky about what she will give her dogs (only species appropriate foods).

Dr. Barbara Royal and Dr. Karen Becker are not certified nutritionists but in my opinion have a great grasp on species appropriate ingredients and foods and have a better understanding on why not to use some things (like canola oil). Dr. Royal created a prescription raw liver and a kidney diet that are sold through Darwins. Dr. Becker co-wrote “Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats”. She has a wonderful grasp on healthful foods and nutrients and how those foods could help or harm our pets.

Hope the above gives you a few jumping off points!!!

[Shawna]

Hi Vicky T,

My Chihuahua mix had kidney disease from birth and lived to just shy of nine years of age. The most important thing I can say about kidney disease is DON’T feed a kibble diet — even prescription kibble. If you want to stick with prescription, Science Diet has some nice canned products that they recently came out with. One is beef based and the other is chicken based. If you are interested in feeding homemade, Veterinary Nutritionist Dr. Meg Smart has a nice recipe on her blog page. Dr. Smart gives a recipe for “early to moderate” and for “late stage” kidney disease. http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

Many, if not most, vets have not yet heard about (or understand if they did hear) the importance of probiotics and certain prebiotics (aka fermentable fibers) for kidney patients. These two supplements help to re-route BUN from the dog’s blood to the colon. This helps pup feel better and allows for a bit higher protein diet. The Merck Vet Manual has a nice blurb about it if your or your vet might be interested. They write “In addition, feeding moderately fermentable fiber can facilitate enteric dialysis and provide a nonrenal route of urea excretion.” http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_small_animals/nutrition_in_disease_management_in_small_animals.html

The fermentable fiber I found to be the most helpful with my Audrey was a human product called “Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber”. It is no longer made but the fiber used, acacia fiber, is also sold by NOW brand. The probiotic I used is also a human product called “Garden of Life Primal Defense”. I gave the products together with Audrey’s meal whenever she seemed depressed, down or not feeling well. Audrey at a HIGH protein diet her whole except the last couple months and then I added some canned KD to her diet.

If Audrey had symptoms of nausea (which was rare until the very end) I would add a drop or two of peppermint essential oil (therapeutic grade only) or ginger extract (from health food store). Now vet Dr. Melissa Shelton has a line of essential oils for animals that are wonderful. I tried her GI Goe product when I had eaten something that wasn’t agreeing with me and it helped TREMENDOUSLY.. I put a dot of the oil on my finger and rubbed it on my tongue. Helped almost immediately.

Having a purified source of high quality drinking water always available is a great idea. Also giving Evian (or another high calcium, lower sodium mineral water) has been shown to help kd patients too.

The one supplement that I gave my Audrey from the day of diagnosis to the day she passed was Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It is a whole food supplement that can help prevent damage to the kidneys from inflammation. I HIGHLY recommend it.

I also really really like Answer’s Raw Goat Milk for kd dogs. It can often be found in pet boutique stores.

I found my local vets (two regular vets and one holistic vet (that I otherwise LOVE)) to be almost useless when it came to diet (or anything else natural that could be helpful with kidney disease).. I hope your vet is much more helpful!!!

Do take a look at the link that C4D posted (dogaware). That site was HUGELY helpful to me when I was trying to figure out what to do with Audrey right after diagnosis.

Good luck to you and thanks to C4D for the kind words!!!!

[Susan]

Hi, my boy does poos with red blood when he eats something that he’s allergic too, also Bone stop any bone in the diet & add grounded egg shells instead for calcuim, I went thru a Animal Nutritionist to put Patch on a raw diet, I had to start with low fat meats Kangaroo, Chicken or Turkey & just 1 protein, no bones or organ meat….. I then had to blend some broccoli, Celery, Carrot & Apple in a blender & stop just before the veggies turn to a pulp water, I was adding 1 cup kangaroo with 1-2 spoons blended veggies, freeze the rest in section in freezer for the rest of the week/month… the Nutritionist wouldn’t let me feed any pet shop meats, raw Barf diets….she said the meat is real low grade quality & make my own raw…..
Patch didn’t last on his Raw Diet, he has IBD Skin/Food Allergies, I now cook his meals & he’s doing heaps better no blood, no jelly poos he also eats a kibble but not mixed with any cooked meals….

[Amy W]

Hi Ken,
I’m pretty new to the site too. My dog has seasonal allergies (watery eyes and nose) and also a chronic yeast issue. The vet says they feed off of each other, compromised immune from environmental allergies make opportunistic yeast more rapid spreading. I have a French Bulldog with lots of folds, so yeast has a great place to hide. Like you, I wanted to cut out all sugars, which feed yeast, too see if it helped. I chose a freeze-dried raw from this site (TruDog) which has been less complicated from a safety standpoint. They have Turkey and Beef ( which it looks like your dog is allergic to).

I do try to keep her off as many harmful meds as reasonable, but I have found that despite my best efforts, she still needs allergy meds during seasonal allergy times. We will see if after a good freeze, the yeast slows down with the other allergies. I regularly clean my dogs “folds” and ears, and soak her feet. That helps some with yeast.

I guess basically what I am saying is the whole allergy/food/environment/ genetic thing is complicated, and while I personally think cutting the sugar with a raw diet seems like a good plan for dealing with yeast, I am finding that if I really want to do right by my dog, just the diet won’t alleviate all of her issues. You might check out a freeze dried raw. There are a couple on the site. A little more quality control for my piece of mind. Good luck, itchy is complicated!

[anonymously]

I don’t listen to Dr Google if I see blood…..
I go to a real veterinarian who can examine my pet and advise me.

BTW: I have a medical background, I don’t go to the vet for every little thing.

PS: I had a dog on a semi-raw diet with raw bones, and I ended up at the emergency vet x 2 due to a blockage. No thank you.
I hope your dog is well, good luck.

[Ken Y]

I feel as if your response is a little bit of an over reaction.. I appreciate the information provided and did read through some of it, but I have done plenty of research of my own before choosing to put my dog on a raw diet. As indicated, he was perfectly fine for the first 4-5mo without incidents. Are you yourself familiar with the idea and benefits of the raw diet?

As for his condition, there’s a big difference between ‘bloody’ and ‘spots of blood’ in his stool.

“FIELD GUIDE
While normal stools can be many shades of brown, some abnormalities in color and consistency may indicate an underlying problem.

1. Streaks of bright red blood and/or mucus on the surface of a mostly normal, formed stool. This is generally caused by inflammation in the large intestine, where mucus is secreted to help protect the intestinal lining. While this does not necessarily indicate an emergency, it’s a good idea to keep a close eye out for further changes in your dog’s behavior and stool.

2. Soft-formed to liquid brown diarrhea, with or without streaks of blood. “Cow patty” and “soft-serve ice cream” are two frequent descriptors. As with the previous type, it is generally not life-threatening as long as there are no other signs of concern and it begins to improve within 24 to 48 hours. If your dog is acting normally otherwise— eating well, not vomiting, good attitude —a wait-and-see home approach may be tried (more on this to follow). Here again, red blood indicates inflammation and bleeding in the colon but does not necessarily mean that your pet is bleeding internally, as is often thought. This is a step up in concern from the previous condition, in the sense that the stool is now softer.

3. A large volume of bloody, watery, diarrhea. This one does require immediate evaluation by your veterinarian, especially with smaller dogs, as it can be an indicator of a common condition called hemorrhagic gastroenteritis, or HGE. (Read more about it here: thebark.com/hge) Tissue sloughing from the intestines gives it a distinctive appearance, and it’s often described as “raspberry jam” diarrhea.”

[anonymously]

If it was my dog I would take him to the emergency vet now/today for some testing and x-rays.
Bloody diarrhea is an indication of something being very wrong. Maybe a sharp bone fragment has caused some internal bleeding? Why are you doing this? A lot of dogs can’t tolerate raw.
Please do some research:
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+food
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=nutrition

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2011/09/integrating-myths-and-nonsense-with-standard-advice-for-allergic-pets/ (excerpt below)
Bottom Line
Allergies are a serious medical problem that causes a great deal of suffering for pets and their owners. Causes are complex and involve both genetic, developmental, and environmental factors, and symptoms tend to come and go unpredictably, which makes evaluating the effects of any particular intervention challenging. While there are many safe and effective therapies that can help manage allergy symptoms, there is no cure. Only complete avoidance of the antigens the individual is allergic to can eliminate symptoms entirely, and this is often not possible. No treatment that has any benefit is completely without risks, and the risks and benefits must always be carefully and rationally weighed.

Article on apoquel and treatment options for allergies http://www.2ndchance.info/Apoquel.htm
excerpt below:
Food Allergies are probably over-diagnosed in dogs (they account for, perhaps 5-10%). Hypoallergenic diets are occasionally, but not frequently, helpful in canine atopy cases but you should always give them a try. Food intolerances are more common – but considerably more likely to result in digestive disturbances and diarrhea than in itching problems.

Intradermal Skin Tests http://www.allergydogcentral.com/2011/06/30/dog-allergy-testing-and-allergy-shots/
“An intradermal skin test involves the injection of a small amount of antigen into your dog’s skin. This procedure is most often performed by a veterinary dermatologist or pet allergy specialist”.

BTW: Dogs can be stoic and not show any signs and symptoms of pain and discomfort, until it is extreme.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by anonymously.

[Ken Y]

Hello Everyone,

As the title reads, I am currently having a diarrhea with bright colored blood, which has been on and off twice now for about 2weeks. This is my first post and I read a few other posts on here about my dog’s current condition, but didn’t find exactly what I was looking for.

I have a 5yo Male Boston Terrier named ‘Hammond’ who was brought up on Taste of The Wild (Fowl Mix) dry kibble. He is my dog, but my father has grown quite fond of him and takes him during the work week and I get him on the weekends. He has been allergy tested due to an ongoing itchy skin condition since he was 1yo and tested positive to an abundance of substances. The main allergens consist of beef, venison, milk, dust mites and certain grass. I recently read an article that seemed to indicate that his skin condition may be a result of a yeast infection and have since switched his diet to a carb free raw diet.

He has been on a raw organic, no additive, low sodium chicken drumstick and thigh diet for about 4-5months now. He was about 28lbs before the raw diet and has since slimmed down to about 25lbs. His calculated serving size totals to be about 1.25lbs a day. I have found a prefered brand I like at a local grocery store and my father has been feeding him an organic brand from Costco with similar listings. He was perfectly fine with the switch with only one or two incidents, which involved bile throw up since the switch until recently. He has had about 2 separate incidents this past 2 weeks involving diarrhea and bright red blood spots. I took the appropriate steps and fasted him for a full day and gave him some rice and boiled chicken to see if symptoms improved and then went back to the drumsticks and thighs. Everything seemed fine for a few days, with the exception of softer stool than usual, but just yesterday, my father told me the diarrhea and blood was back.

We are taking him to the vet this Sat, but I’m more than positive that the Dr. is going to tell us to switch back to a reg dry kibble dog food as most vets don’t approve of raw diets.

Both diarrhea incidents happened when my father had him, feeding him the Costco organic chicken. Is it possible that maybe he got a bad batch of chicken? I have ordered a supply of the ‘Premeasured service’, chicken necks and green tripe from Reel Raw as recommended from this site and it will be arriving today. I made sure to list his allergens in the ground mix.

Should I stop with the raw?..

Thank you for the long read and any advise is appreciated.

[Alex p]

since meat is high in phosphorus and lower in calcium, too much meat is not good for dogs over long periods of time”. (Many people still confuse the disastrous all meat diets with meat-based diets; one is not good the other is ideal.) Grain-based diets for dogs, and even more so for cats, do not make nutritional sense.

You can offer some natural foods to provide some variety. Natural foods include fresh human-grade raw meat (e.g. raw lamb), raw meaty bones and vegetables

[Susan]

Hi, to save all the stuffing around, Get a Salvia & Hair test done thru Glacier Peak Holistic cost only $85 & test for 100+ Environment Triggers & 200+ Food items… once you know what is causing her itch you can eliminate them…
I bath in Malaseb medicated shampoo look into feeding a raw or cooked balanced diet, you cant eliminate the carbs in kibbles as they need the carbs to bind the kibble, most grain free kibbles are high is starchy carbs, peas, potatoes, tapioca, lentils, chickpeas etc or look at feeding those Dog Rolls read ingredients first as some may have crappy ingredients…. in Australia we have Crocodile rolls, Lamb Roll or Kangaroo rolls for dogs with allergies….
http://www.glacierpeakholistics.com/More-Than-an-Allergy-Test_p_80.html

[jakes mom]

I have an 11 year old beagle mix. He did fine on the BJ’s food (dry). I’ve used it as part of his rotation diet in the past but now he gets mostly raw.

[Kevin R]

Hi all, I am looking to transition from kibble to a home cooked diet for my dog, but am having trouble locating a good book to do so. I have saw the books by Dr. Becker and Steve Brown, but judging by the reviews, it seems they may focus mainly on raw diets. There is another named “Feed your Best Friend Better: Easy, Nutritious Meals and Treats for Dogs,” that gets some good praise from http://www.dogaware.com. However, the author suggest the recipes be added to commercial food. I’m trying to find good, balanced recipes in order to avoid commercial food. That’s my whole point of doing this. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Ptcbass:
Sorry for your loss.

My dog is prone to gaining a little weight during hot weather. During these periods I find feeding low fat foods along with exercising him in the morning and evenings help keep him trim; he doesn’t like hot weather. I feed about half kibble and to get more moisture in his diet I add either canned, commercial frozen/freeze dried raw, or fresh/homemade foods. I try to choose kibble, commercial raw, or canned that are equal in protein and fat calories or a little more calories from protein than fat.

I feed Fromm Gold Weight management in my rotation and you may want to take a look at Annamaet Lean or Wellness Core Weight Management. I feed both the kibble and canned of the Core Weight Management.

[Debra F]

I am beginning to think my two-year-old black lab pit mix has a potato allergy. She has one ear that gets very dirty and smelly. She has been on Back to Basics Lamb and Potato as her main dry food (I supplement with other flavors). As we all know by now B2B is going to stop producing dog food by the end of the year so I have been researching other quality, limited ingredient foods. It is nearly impossible to find a dry food that does not contain potatoes.

Additionally, I believe she has a problem with berries. When we first got her we put her on Blue Wilderness grain-free which contained berries. She had very back digestive problems so we then switched her to B2B.

Has anyone had issues with both potatoes and berries? I am not putting my dogs on a raw diet so please do not suggest this.

Thanks!

[Bobby dog]

What a terrible story, but a happy ending! That is a great budget for kibble IMO.

The protein & fat %’s in Puppy Chow are average, the fiber might be just a little more than other kibbles depending on what recipe you’re feeding. It averages 27% protein, 10-12% min. fat, and 4-5% fiber. Sometimes changes in any of these percentages can cause digestive upset. Something to keep in mind when deciding on a new food. Kibble in higher price ranges usually have a higher meat content so protein and fat percentages will go up along with calories per cup. One other thing to keep in mind is overfeeding can also cause digestive upset. If he is skin and bones I would work with my Vet to figure out the calories he needs to add healthy weight in a reasonable amount of time.

Check out Victor you should find several formulas to fit your needs within your budget; maybe the Chicken Meal w/Brown Rice. Looking at the Mitchell’s site I see they sell Purina Mills, Inc. They may sell their dog food lines, PMI Nutrition. I feed some recipes from their Infinia and Exclusive lines, these would be in your price range.

I also feed Nutrisource, Fromm, Precise, some Pro Plan recipes, Annamaet, Wellness Core, Nature’s Variety, and Rawz.

If you decide to buy on-line I regularly order from Chewy, Petflow, PetSmart, and Petco. They all have great customer service and prices.

I don’t feed Diamond products at this time due to their recall history; they make Taste of the Wild and manufacture some Solid Gold recipes along with some other brands. They have allot of affordable foods, if you decide to feed one of their products or anything they manufacture I suggest signing up for recall alerts:
/dog-food-recall-alerts/

I recommend adding moisture to kibble even if it’s just water. Adding fresh or canned foods could help with his weight. Some budget friendly canned foods are Wal-Mart’s Pure Balance Stews ($1/can), Tractor Supply Company 4Health Stews (.99/can), and if you have a Costco membership Kirkland Signature Nature’s Domain (.80/can) you have to buy it by the case. Each are 4-5 star DFA rated. I don’t recommend Pure Balance 95% or 4Health Grain free canned foods due to the high fat content.

This is a download I use as a guide for adding fresh foods to a kibble diet:
https://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DN330EBK

[Eugene G]

i adopted a 3 year old mastiff from an acquaintance. he was on raw diet and i continued it. The previous owner was feeding him 2.5 lbs. he was and i still am getting food from Armalinosk9. its human grade meet 70% meet 30% ground bones. i get chicken, beef and duck from them. i also add chicken feet, turkey necks, beef liver, chicken hearts and once in a while i add veggies and fruits ( 1/2 frozen apples grinded, sometimes i add a little of my veggie/fruit shakes(no grapes), a little cauliflower or a little carrots grinded, bananas etc). i also add a spoon of organic coconut butter every few days and also add “Natural Hip & Joint Supplement for Dogs with Organic Turmeric, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and MSM – 90 Count Chewable ” that i purchase on amazon as it was what previous owner did.
my boy is healthy and i experienced no problems with him for last 5 month.
i am wondering if there is anything missing in his diet. don’t want to neglect an important ingredient or end up with vitamin deficient dog. i appreciate your input.

[Susan]

Hi, I live in Australia so we have different brands, my boy has IBD Colitis (food sensitivities)every time I give Patch a probiotic he feels sick, I’ve read there’s a die off period, just keep taking the probiotics but I stopped I couldn’t handle watching Patch feel sick licking & licking his mouth & eating grass, so a lady at the pet shop said give him Papaya (Paw Paw) so I mashed up 1/2 a Papaya & put the mashed papaya in ice cube & froze, I was giving Patch 1 thawed ice cube of the papaya about 10.30am after our walked he loved it, at first I thought Patch was OK but again he started his mouth licking & eating grass…
I found a good dog probiotic had to be stored in the fridge or kept under 25 degrees so the heat doesn’t kill the live bacteria…also Tripe, tripe is excellent, Patch tried the K-9Natural Lamb Green Tripe was really good… K-9 Natural has their Raw frozen or their freeze dried Green Lamb Tripe, the smell was OK not as bad as I thought it would be…..Patch loved it but it made him feel sick….

My vet said she went to a seminar & the lady said they tested 10 popular dog probiotics & only 3 had live cultures Purina Fortiflora was suppose to be good, she didn’t mention the probiotics that weren’t good my vet said, I said if Patch doesn’t feel sick then its no good…

I joined a group on Face Book called “Fast Track Diet” (Official Group) run by Dr Norm Robillard he’s specializes in IBS SIBO Leaky Gut Acid Reflux etc
& has written a book called “Fast Tract Digestion” its for humans but I’d say a dog would have similar bowel & stomach problems with certain foods, he said it’s best to take probiotics on an empty stomach when your Hydrochloric Acid is low, either first thing in the morning or night just before bed & not with food….

I found this link what each strain of bacteria is for & what it helps Lactobacillus GG (L.rhamnosus) protects against respiratory illness, treats candida, colitis and diarhea, reduces stress and anxiety.. http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-to-choose-good-probiotic-supplement.html

[Patti S]

My dog does better on Pork than he does with Chicken! I use tenderloin fillets and I trim the fat.
You won’t find a large difference between the calories in pork tenderloin, ham, bone-in pork chops, and skinless chicken breasts, legs and thighs. Pork tenderloin has the fewest, with 93 calories in a 3-ounce serving, while ham contains 116 calories, which is the highest of the six samples. All six provide about the same amount of protein: 16 to 19 grams in 3 ounces.
You should thoroughly cook all pork, so don’t use it if you feed your dog a raw diet. But once cooked, Pork in itself is as harmless to dogs as chicken, beef or any other meat.
That said, if you would like to feed Pork raw, it is recommended that it be frozen for 3 weeks to kill potential parasites.

[C4D]

Hi Colby C,

There are several sites that have balanced homemade recipes, including dogaware, as InkedMarie mentioned. Whole Dog Journal has recipes. I’m a subscriber but I think the articles can be accessed for free. Balanceit is another helpful website.

There are also several books with balanced diets including See Spot Live Longer and Dr. Becker too.

The most important thing is to make sure the diet is balanced. I tend to use premixes like Grandma Lucy’s, The Honest Kitchen, etc to add to the cooked meat at feeding time. I cook enough meat to last several days. Crock pots are great for this purpose. InkedMarie is right, commercial raw is very easy, but it is expensive when you have multiple large dogs. Good luck with it!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by C4D.

[DogFoodie]

Most vets don’t have much training in nutrition. Unless yours is a veterinary nutritionist, I would take their food recommendations with a grain of salt. My vet typically only recommends raw diets.

My recommendation is that you find a food that you like and is high quality and to which your dog doesn’t react. You also need to look at the fiber content and is if the anal glad issue is fiber responsive.

[Jenn H]

I often feed my dogs combo and change their food every 3-4 months. It’s been great as far as avoiding recalls and it helps them create their own good bacteria. The body gets used to the same food.

Right now I have a 4 month old German Shepherd puppy. And I have been dealing with diarrhea off & on. I found out it could be due to teething. They produce more saliva. That ends up in the stomach and what comes out isn’t pleasant.
I gave him pumpkin, bland diet and probio. It helps.

Now I am giving him raw unpasteurized goat milk. So far so good.

The only thing is I am very careful about his calcium intake. He is not to exceed 1.5% per day. Even that is higher than I like. I try to keep it around 1-1.2% max.
I hate doing the math, but I know how important it is to control his growth. It’s important large breed puppies do not grow too fast.

Orijen is an excellent food. I am changing him to Acana. Orijen is a little out of my price range right now.

I would suggest that if you need to give him rice for diarrhea in the future that it be white rice not brown. The brown can be too much work to digest when their bellies aren’t feeling well. I used to give brown also until I was corrected.

Whatever direction you go in just be sure to keep track of the daily calcium amounts. Stay as close to 1% as possible. I believe the guidelines are .75-1.5%.
Often this mean contacting the dog food companies and asking what the MAX amt is in their food. They often list min amt if at all.

[C4D]

Hi Judith B,

I cook for my dogs frequently, but it’s always fresh, not canned, meat with a few organic veggies, generally carrots, celery and fresh parsley, sometimes broccoli or squash, depending on what I have in the garden or is on sale, NO SALT. I add this to a premix, like The Honest Kitchen, Sojos, or Grandma Lucy’s, which has the vitamins added. I also feed my dog’s a regular diet of commercial kibble, canned or raw that are complete and balanced.

I appreciate that you want to provide some healthy fresh cooked food for your dogs, but, IMHO, I don’t think you should be adding canned soup and broth. There’s a lot of sodium in those and dogs (or people) don’t need that much sodium. Regular Swanson a whole can has about 50% of the normal human daily intake. Tomato soup is also high in sodium, I just linked Campbell’s, but I’m an avid label reader and they all tend to have about 33% or better per serving, which is less than 1/2 the can.

http://swanson.campbellskitchen.com/broth/beef-broth/

http://www.campbellsoup.com/Products/Condensed/All/2341

This is the nutrition data of Cheese Whiz. I didn’t know which one you use, but they are all very similar in salt content. This is for 2 tbsp, not the whole jar, which would be a lot more.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/160/2

These are not healthy products to be adding to your dog’s diet. If you want to add some broth, cook fresh meat with a bit of water and use the cooking water as the broth. I do this all the time. I even use it as stock to make soups for my family.

I truly appreciate what you are trying to do for your dogs, but if you keep it to some fresh meat and vegetables in the crock pot, your dogs will be much healthier. I would still use this as a topper to a balanced dog food to keep your animals in the best of health. The balanceIt website, Whole Dog Journal, or dogaware has some recipes to give you an idea of what a balanced meal or supplement to their diet should look like. Good Luck!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by C4D.

[InkedMarie]

I know nothing about cooking for dogs, I feed raw but I cannot imagine why any dog needs tomato soup & cheese spread. you’d be smart to work with a nutritionist or holistic vet for a balanced diet or contact Lew Olsen at B-Naturals dot com or Mary Straus at DogAware dot com.

[Pamela S]

I chuckled when I read you post. I rotate my dogs kibble every day with a different 5 star brand. So every 5 days my dogs get a different kibble. Like you I also have my magic elixir I like to add, like you I make it in big batches and freeze. Mine is close, different meets cooked in water, organic vegetables. I have 4 dogs two rescues Sammi 9 lbs, Quinn 20 lbs and two Bernese Mountain Dogs. I am most concerned with the BMD’s because of their size, I want to keep them healthy so I am always researching, feeling guilty about not having them on a raw food diet, reading various web sites of feeding and generally driving myself crazy in the process of feeling like I am not doing enough for them.

So I posted on a BMD website and asked for advice, because the breed is not know for longevity (9 years) So I question people who had 10 years and older BMD’s what they attributed longevity to. The answer surprised me. I was sure I would pick up feeding tips. But the most prevalent answer was: it is just the luck of the draw. Some had dogs that lived long lives, some were short. It didn’t matter that they were all fed the same. Some people reported they did the raw diet and the dog died young while others that they fed cheap food to live to ripe old ages. Again and again the answer boiled down to luck of the draw.

So that made me try to not be so neurotic over food. I think what you are doing is great. I think the most important things are to keep them slim, as few shots as possible, and plenty of love. I am no expert, but that is pretty much the advice I got from knowledgeable owners.

Pamela

[Ryan L]

Hello,
We have a 1 year and 3 month year old female Maltese Yorkshire Yorkshire Terrier Mix named Lennon. She is the light of our life, very smart and playful but has had a delicate tummy from day one. The breeder we got her from was feeding her Purina’s and we switched her quickly to Fromm Gold Holistic Puppy Dry Dog Food. She did well with that but eventually got disinterested and was not eating often enough so we tried most of the flavors such as the Surf & Turf, Lamb & Lentils etc. Between the switching she would often get diarrhea but no idea if it was from her food or not. We did practice switching her food gradually instead of just introducing a brand new food right away. Every so often she would get a bout of diarrhea and we would feed her chicken and rice with a little low sodium chicken broth to soothe her tummy. She has never had a problem when we make her chicken and rice but we are hoping we don’t have to feed her that every day.

About 2 weeks ago she got real sick and was throwing up, eating grass, waking up in the middle night with bad diarrhea and we took her to the vet. They suggested we switch her food again so this time around we went with Prarie Gold Adult Grain-Free: http://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/#prairie-gold-adult. She has been on this for about a week and her poops are very soft often diarrhea so we are back to square 1… Sigh.

We are recent members on this site and still a bit overwhelmed with the choices if we go with a different brand a ll together. We have a Chuck and Don’s by our house and they mentioned Zignature but did not see that one included in the editors best of. I should also note we did try Merrick Limited Ingredient Diet Dry but took it back after a day once we learned it was bought out by Purina. Our Lennon is very small (5 pounds)1 year and 3 month year old Morkie with a sensitive tummy and often picky. I am thinking about taking back her current Prairie Gold Adult Grain-Free (we got this because we thought the grain free limited ingredient might help) and starting over with a different brand. If anyone has any suggestions for a dry non raw food we would love to hear it!
Cheers,
Ryan & Anna Luse

[Shawna]

Red,

First – Jan I’m not suggesting in my comments below to Red that you feed anything you are not comfortable with, I’m simply responding to Red’s Skeptvet quoted material.

I do like much of the information you gave the OP but your persistent backlash towards alternative approaches DESPITE being provided with science and sources showing results etc is nothing less than propaganda for everything allopathic. Which is also evident in the fact that you have no other sources than Skeptvet — one man’s opinions.

Let’s not forget that Skeptvet is not a nutritionist either yet he writes “unconventional, approaches to pet nutrition, such as raw diets, grain free foods, homemade diets, a preference for organic ingredients, and so on, to dismiss objections to these approaches made by veterinarians.” Yet he’s doing the very same thing by trying to cast a bad light on these “unconventional approaches” when some of his peers (some of whom ARE nutritionists) recommend those very diets. Let’s take a look shall we

Dr. Meg Smart not only is a veterinary nutritionist but she TAUGHT veterinary nutrition. She recommends homemade (raw or cooked) and likens kibble to feeding your kids “kraft dinners and the likes”. She writes “I always ask clients” what do you or did you feed your children” if they reply “Kraft dinners and the likes” I do not advise a homemade diet.” – See more at: http://www.angryvet.com/angryvet-nutrition-interview-drs-joseph-wakshlag-and-meg-smart/#sthash.dc3Xl7e0.dpuf Dr. Smarts course, by the way, is an “elective” course. Vets at her school are not required to take her course. “Dr. Smart has taught a small animal nutrition elective course to fourth-year veterinary students since 1994.” https://www.usask.ca/wcvm/wcvm_people/profiles/Smart_Marion%20Meg.php

Or then there is veterinary nutritionist Dr. Susan Wynn who also recommends homemade diets. “Homemade diets are flexible, tasty and in some cases healthier than over the counter dog and cat foods. For some pets with multiple medical conditions, a homemade diet offers the only hope for meeting complex nutritional requirements.” http://www.susanwynn.com/Formulated_Diets.php

The Marvistavet link I posted above suggesting a homemade diet, although not a nutritionist, is a veterinary website.

Although not technically a nutritionist, as far as I know, Dr. Elizabeth Hodkins did work for Hills per her Linkedin page so I’m counting her. She too recommends homemade (and raw). Dr. Smart and Dr. Hodkins co-wrote the book “Not Fit for a Dog!: The Truth about Manufactured Cat and Dog Food” http://www.amazon.com/Not-Fit-Dog-Truth-Manufactured/dp/1610351495

Dr. Smart has some interesting data on science and pet food. She writes
“A recent article “Science under Siege” although about pharmaceutical research(Discover Magazine Oct2007)) reflects what is happening in the pet food industry . Private funding to academic institutions by big pharmaceutical companies is allowing science to become a powerful tool in their fight against regulation. Research in small animal nutrition has been traditionally underfunded or more accurately seldom funded by independent granting agencies. This has left the field wide open for the pet food industry to control and direct the research done in an academic institution, and within their own facilities. Research into pet foods is seldom at “arm’s length”.

The validity of trials conducted on dogs and cats kept in a kennel or research facility is questioned, as these animals do not have the same freedoms and human bonding experiences of the pets kept within a home environment. Most nutritional trials on companion animals are only valid for that particular group, maintained under the same conditions, fed identical diets. Even the results from the relatively simple non invasive digestibility, palatability and feeding trials done in kennels or catteries specifically established and approved to conduct these trials have come under scrutiny when environment, previous diet, gender, breed and age differences are considered.” http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/11/evaluating-nutritional-research.html

I’m interested on your thoughts on these points I’ve presented.

[Anonymous]

What do Veterinarians Know About Nutrition?

“It is not unusual for people promoting unconventional, approaches to pet nutrition, such as raw diets, grain free foods, homemade diets, a preference for organic ingredients, and so on, to dismiss objections to these approaches made by veterinarians. These people will often claim that veterinarians know little about nutrition and that what they do know is mostly propaganda fed to them by commercial pet food manufacturers. Like most bad arguments, this one contains a few bits of truth mixed in with lots of unproven assumptions and fallacies”.

Click on link for full article, also, I find the comments for these articles informative too.

[Shawna]

Hi Sheila23,

Although a homemade diet is absolutely doable I would do a LOT more research before you decide on any one brand. Example — Tripe is a great food for kd dogs but it is supposedly already balanced in calcium to phosphorus. Adding a premix like Preference, that is designed to balance higher phosphorus meat, could be problematic. Although phosphorus needs to be watched, you can go too low too early in the disease.

Balance IT could be an option but I personally wouldn’t have fed my KD girl such a low protein diet (ESPECIALLY in the early stages). Based on the nutrient profile of their beef and rice early stage kd diet the protein amount is only 15.3%. That’s ridiculously low for early stage kd without any complicating issues like proteinuria. Not even enough to meet the minimum protein amounts required for an a complete and balanced diet. They also use corn oil — EEEEKK. The chicken & rice recipe is even worse at 14.9% protein.

If you can afford it, I would highly recommend looking at Darwin’s prescription KD diet formulated by vet Dr. Barbara Royal. The ingredient list is
“Human-Grade Meat: Beef Meat, Beef Tripe, Beef Pancreas, Beef Lungs, Beef Kidneys, Beef Liver, Beef Heart, Beef Spleen.

Vegetables: Cabbage, Celery, Squash, Sweet Potato, Beets, Romaine Lettuce.

Special Nutrient Mix: Filtered Water (for processing), Sardine oil (source of EPA, DPA and DHA), Egg Shell Powder, Parsley, Apple Cider Vinegar, Inulin, Cornsilk, Dandelion Root, Cinnamon, Cranberry, Linden Flowers, , Chitosan, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin E, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin D3, Aloe Vera.” http://www.darwinspet.com/our-raw-foods/our-raw-dog-food/intelligent-design-ks/

I LOVE that you are starting Alvin on Standard Process Renal Support. It is the one supplement that my Audrey NEVER did without since diagnosis. She had KD from birth (symptoms showed at just 6 weeks of age) but she wasn’t diagnosed till she was 13 months old. She was given one year to live after that. She lived to almost her ninth birthday and it was an infection that took her life not the normal progression of kidney disease.

Some other things to look at for Alvin — purified water (as much as he wants), extra water soluble vitamins if he urinates large volumes of water. A high quality probiotic and a prebiotic made with acacia fiber helps to clear BUN etc from the blood allowing for higher protein to be fed or simply helps clear BUN when necessary. This is called “nitrogen trapping”. Giving Evian (or another higher calcium, lower sodium mineral water) has been shown to be beneficial for kidney disease. I did give my Audrey fresh, raw garlic most of her life. I still believe that if I hadn’t gotten lazy and quit giving it to her near the end of her life she wouldn’t have developed the severe infection that ended up damaging her kidneys and taking her life. Enzymes to help with the digestion of his food. Certain supplements and herbs can be helpful — spirulina provides many nutrients, food grade activated charcoal given off an on in small amounts can help clear toxins, organic turmeric helps with inflammation and also helps prevent scar tissue (works best when combined with pepper or the enzyme bromelain from pineapple). Chlorella is a wonderful detoxer and it helps build red blood cells due to the high amounts of chlorphyll in it. Apple cider vinegar can help with indigestion (fed with food in small amounts or given via syringe but must be diluted first). Ginger extract and therapeutic grade peppermint oil can help with nausea (later in the illness). I also recently read that there is other therapeutic grade essential oils that can help the kidneys but I don’t remember the particulars of the article. Vet Dr. Melissa Shelton would be the person to seek out if wanting to incorporate essential oils.

I was lucky with Audrey, she was able to eat commercial raw products clear up to a few months before she passed. I’m not sure if that was because of the supplements, being fed raw from weaning or what but she did quite well. Possibly look at lower phosphorus commercial foods and then add small amounts of low phosphorus toppers (lightly cooked egg whites and coconut oil as an example) to keep the calories up while lowering the overall phosphorus even more. There are some great nutritionists out there as well that could be quite beneficial to you and Alvin.

Hoping Alvin does as well as, or better than, my Audrey!!!

Thank you Marie!

[SNOWFLAKE]

Thank you Jonathan.!!!! Really appreciate all your help. Will try these recipes soon . and as for c4D wasnt sure of the time difference and really sorry to have bothered you.Its just that i am super careful and excited about my wynn and his new diet so couldnt be patient. Take care and thank you for your time and effort. Aimee, I didnt notice you dont feed raw ..its all cool. THANKS ANYWAYS.

[aimee]

Hi Reewa,

As I don’t feed a homemade raw diet I can’t advise you on how to do it to ensure proper nutrition during such a critical life stage. I feel the risks of feeding homemade raw outweigh any proposed benefits. Sorry I can not help you further. aimee