[Shawna]

Hi Courtney,

So sorry, I just now saw your reply to me!!

Yes, I believe Dori is quite satisfied with the support and dietary advice she received from Dr. Wynn. Dori is a raw feeder and feeds pre-made complete and balanced diets so I’m not exactly sure what involvement Dr. Wynn had. Maybe just consult versus diet formulation? I can ask Dori to comment.

A nutritionist, whether credentialed or not, holds no value to me if they don’t have a deeper understanding of how “healthy foods” (like canola oil) 🙂 can be damaging. I want someone willing to think outside the box versus someone to just spout out recipes that simply meet all the nutrient requirements. I’m not sure all the people I listed can do that but I have more faith in them then some others I’ve seen (especially Drs. Becker and Royal). The problem with this is that you might have to spend more on more supplements but, in my opinion, in the long run it pays off with better health. An example if needing canola for it’s Linoleic acid — hemp seed oil would be an alternative having 54 to 57% LA (Dr. Becker recommends hemp seed in her recipe book when feeding a beef diet). Another option, and my personal choice, would be pumpkin seed oil. It contains approximately 64% LA. In addition to that it is high in vitamin E and in chlorophyll which is quite health promoting. It’s likely that a source of Omega 3 would need to be added in higher amounts with these two than with canola but that is definitely doable for most.

There are nutritionists that can formulate a complete and balanced diet and then their are folks that can formulate a complete and balanced diet while doing so with foods that not only meet nutritional needs but also promote optimal health. But I’m sure you understand that as you are trying to get a more personalized, healthier diet. 🙂

I think this article written by a human dietitian explains the problem quite well
“A DIETITIAN’S TRAINING AND ROUTINE

Providing Medical Nutrition Therapy in a nursing home requires credentials as a registered dietitian with the American Dietetic Association’s (ADA) Commission on Dietetic Registration. Training is extensive. In most cases it requires a bachelor’s degree from an accredited college, an internship of nine months to a year working within a clinical setting, and passing a comprehensive exam.

During my clinical training as a dietitian, I was not taught holistic nutrition principles. I did not learn the benefits of herbs, or of the importance of whole foods, probiotics, enzymes, or organically grown foods to good health. I did not learn to use vitamin and mineral supplementation to overcome illness or disease. I did not understand that poor nutrition is probably the cause of most disease and poor health conditions in the first place. I had no idea that we require cholesterol and saturated fat to be well. I did not learn that the nutritional value of grass-fed beef was superior to grain-fed beef, or of the importance of iodine coupled with the avoidance of bromine for proper thyroid function, and so on.

I was taught we should eat less fat and more grain products. I was led to believe that pharmaceutical therapy was necessary and that nutrition made little or no impact in treating an already established condition. My continuing education hours were offered free by the pharmaceutical industry. During these classes I was taught about their “new and improved” Ensure and other products they were promoting.” – See more at: http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/health-issues/a-dietitians-experience-in-the-nursing-home/#sthash.SWFcZ0Bo.dpuf

It’s often more about what you know than what (or even where) you were taught.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.

[C4D]

Hi Michael S,

it’s been a while since you posted, but these links might help. Generally organ meat, even in raw feeding, should be no more than 10 % of the total diet and liver only 5%. I find it’s a bit too rich to use alone, so I often mix with lung and fresh cooked muscle meat. I have large dogs, Labs, and tend to keep the treats slightly bigger than a pea. It’s easy to nibble, get back quickly to training, and keeps them interested in more since they don’t get full.

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/why-organ-meat-is-important-for-the-raw-fed-dog/

http://dogaware.com/diet/treats.html

George B,

I generally don’t treat for potty breaks, but you could apply the above information if you use treats. And treats, even good ones, shouldn’t be more than 10% of the total diet. I foster and find that crate training is very effective in potty training, especially in the beginning. Good luck with your pup!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by C4D.

[C4D]

Dawn A,

I feed raw, but I use a commercial, complete and balanced diet. If you are making your own, please research how to make a balanced homemade recipe. This is particularly critical since your dog is a puppy and nutritional deficiencies and/or imbalances can cause some really big problems as they grow, particularly in large breeds.

Dr. Becker, Whole Dog Journal, dogaware.com are a few places to start.

[charles h]

Hey,

Your definitely not adding enough bone to the diet. It’s very hard with a young dog to get the consistency right. Our puppy refused to eat any chicken bone and we had to literally starve her but it is all we could do to avoid runny stools.

She now eats a full raw diet with no complaints and looks healthier for it. The trick is to not give in and feed her ‘other’ food just to get them to eat.

Stick with raw and it wil work itself out.

[Shawna]

Hi Ken,

I haven’t read through all the comments but I wanted to state that it could be the chicken causing the issue — a chicken sensitivity versus and allergy. Maybe the chicken itself OR what the chicken ate even (since it seems to be brand specific). I’m a raw feeder of multiple dogs (I have six of my own right now and foster) for over 10 years by the way. My Pom gets ulcerative colitis (bright red blood in diarrhea (her’s is almost liquid though)). Chicken is what sets my girl off (only the muscle meat – she is fine with eggs, liver, kidneys etc).

Sensitivities can manifest after the dog (or person) has been on the food for a while. A protein in certain foods, called a lectin, can bind with the gut wall and cause disease. Initially it binds with IgA (an immune system antigen) but eventually the body is not capable of producing enough IgA to bind with the lectin and then you see symptoms. Typical allergy tests test for IgE immunoglobulins so they can’t detect food sensitivities (which are actually much more common than IgE allergies). I understand that the food he gets better on is “boiled chicken” but boiling (at least with legumes) leaches some of the lectins from the food making less for the body to have to deal with. OR possibly the boiled chicken is different than the one causing the IBD because of something the chicken ate (organic grains fed to livestock have lectins too).

Okay, that was just one thought. The other is that the raw chicken drumstick and thigh diet is not a balanced diet. I know, I know……eye rolls and oh not one of those must be balanced nuts. 🙂 hee hee But there really is something to it. Dark meat chicken is an excellent source of linoleic acid (the omega 6 fat that is necessary for health). However when LA is over-consumed and/or not consumed in balance with omega 3 fats it can be quite inflammatory. Although a good source of LA, chicken is deficient in saturated fatty acids which the body also needs. You don’t mention organs which supply other nutrients. This may or may not be a direct cause but it certainly could be an indirect cause.

Hope, whatever it is, you can get it figured out and get back to wonderful health.

[Shawna]

I haven’t worked with any of these folks but have been following them for years.
Monica Segal
Kymythy Schultz
Cat Lane

Dr. Meg Smart is a board certified vet and taught nutrition. She’s in Canada but may do long distance consults. She is a raw feeder and although she uses some products I wouldn’t (like canola oil etc) I do think she would customize further.

Dr. Susan Wynn is another board certified vet nutritionist. One of my friends uses her and is very VERY picky about what she will give her dogs (only species appropriate foods).

Dr. Barbara Royal and Dr. Karen Becker are not certified nutritionists but in my opinion have a great grasp on species appropriate ingredients and foods and have a better understanding on why not to use some things (like canola oil). Dr. Royal created a prescription raw liver and a kidney diet that are sold through Darwins. Dr. Becker co-wrote “Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats”. She has a wonderful grasp on healthful foods and nutrients and how those foods could help or harm our pets.

Hope the above gives you a few jumping off points!!!

[Shawna]

Hi Vicky T,

My Chihuahua mix had kidney disease from birth and lived to just shy of nine years of age. The most important thing I can say about kidney disease is DON’T feed a kibble diet — even prescription kibble. If you want to stick with prescription, Science Diet has some nice canned products that they recently came out with. One is beef based and the other is chicken based. If you are interested in feeding homemade, Veterinary Nutritionist Dr. Meg Smart has a nice recipe on her blog page. Dr. Smart gives a recipe for “early to moderate” and for “late stage” kidney disease. http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

Many, if not most, vets have not yet heard about (or understand if they did hear) the importance of probiotics and certain prebiotics (aka fermentable fibers) for kidney patients. These two supplements help to re-route BUN from the dog’s blood to the colon. This helps pup feel better and allows for a bit higher protein diet. The Merck Vet Manual has a nice blurb about it if your or your vet might be interested. They write “In addition, feeding moderately fermentable fiber can facilitate enteric dialysis and provide a nonrenal route of urea excretion.” http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_small_animals/nutrition_in_disease_management_in_small_animals.html

The fermentable fiber I found to be the most helpful with my Audrey was a human product called “Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber”. It is no longer made but the fiber used, acacia fiber, is also sold by NOW brand. The probiotic I used is also a human product called “Garden of Life Primal Defense”. I gave the products together with Audrey’s meal whenever she seemed depressed, down or not feeling well. Audrey at a HIGH protein diet her whole except the last couple months and then I added some canned KD to her diet.

If Audrey had symptoms of nausea (which was rare until the very end) I would add a drop or two of peppermint essential oil (therapeutic grade only) or ginger extract (from health food store). Now vet Dr. Melissa Shelton has a line of essential oils for animals that are wonderful. I tried her GI Goe product when I had eaten something that wasn’t agreeing with me and it helped TREMENDOUSLY.. I put a dot of the oil on my finger and rubbed it on my tongue. Helped almost immediately.

Having a purified source of high quality drinking water always available is a great idea. Also giving Evian (or another high calcium, lower sodium mineral water) has been shown to help kd patients too.

The one supplement that I gave my Audrey from the day of diagnosis to the day she passed was Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It is a whole food supplement that can help prevent damage to the kidneys from inflammation. I HIGHLY recommend it.

I also really really like Answer’s Raw Goat Milk for kd dogs. It can often be found in pet boutique stores.

I found my local vets (two regular vets and one holistic vet (that I otherwise LOVE)) to be almost useless when it came to diet (or anything else natural that could be helpful with kidney disease).. I hope your vet is much more helpful!!!

Do take a look at the link that C4D posted (dogaware). That site was HUGELY helpful to me when I was trying to figure out what to do with Audrey right after diagnosis.

Good luck to you and thanks to C4D for the kind words!!!!

[Susan]

Hi, my boy does poos with red blood when he eats something that he’s allergic too, also Bone stop any bone in the diet & add grounded egg shells instead for calcuim, I went thru a Animal Nutritionist to put Patch on a raw diet, I had to start with low fat meats Kangaroo, Chicken or Turkey & just 1 protein, no bones or organ meat….. I then had to blend some broccoli, Celery, Carrot & Apple in a blender & stop just before the veggies turn to a pulp water, I was adding 1 cup kangaroo with 1-2 spoons blended veggies, freeze the rest in section in freezer for the rest of the week/month… the Nutritionist wouldn’t let me feed any pet shop meats, raw Barf diets….she said the meat is real low grade quality & make my own raw…..
Patch didn’t last on his Raw Diet, he has IBD Skin/Food Allergies, I now cook his meals & he’s doing heaps better no blood, no jelly poos he also eats a kibble but not mixed with any cooked meals….

[Amy W]

Hi Ken,
I’m pretty new to the site too. My dog has seasonal allergies (watery eyes and nose) and also a chronic yeast issue. The vet says they feed off of each other, compromised immune from environmental allergies make opportunistic yeast more rapid spreading. I have a French Bulldog with lots of folds, so yeast has a great place to hide. Like you, I wanted to cut out all sugars, which feed yeast, too see if it helped. I chose a freeze-dried raw from this site (TruDog) which has been less complicated from a safety standpoint. They have Turkey and Beef ( which it looks like your dog is allergic to).

I do try to keep her off as many harmful meds as reasonable, but I have found that despite my best efforts, she still needs allergy meds during seasonal allergy times. We will see if after a good freeze, the yeast slows down with the other allergies. I regularly clean my dogs “folds” and ears, and soak her feet. That helps some with yeast.

I guess basically what I am saying is the whole allergy/food/environment/ genetic thing is complicated, and while I personally think cutting the sugar with a raw diet seems like a good plan for dealing with yeast, I am finding that if I really want to do right by my dog, just the diet won’t alleviate all of her issues. You might check out a freeze dried raw. There are a couple on the site. A little more quality control for my piece of mind. Good luck, itchy is complicated!

[anonymously]

I don’t listen to Dr Google if I see blood…..
I go to a real veterinarian who can examine my pet and advise me.

BTW: I have a medical background, I don’t go to the vet for every little thing.

PS: I had a dog on a semi-raw diet with raw bones, and I ended up at the emergency vet x 2 due to a blockage. No thank you.
I hope your dog is well, good luck.

[Ken Y]

I feel as if your response is a little bit of an over reaction.. I appreciate the information provided and did read through some of it, but I have done plenty of research of my own before choosing to put my dog on a raw diet. As indicated, he was perfectly fine for the first 4-5mo without incidents. Are you yourself familiar with the idea and benefits of the raw diet?

As for his condition, there’s a big difference between ‘bloody’ and ‘spots of blood’ in his stool.

“FIELD GUIDE
While normal stools can be many shades of brown, some abnormalities in color and consistency may indicate an underlying problem.

1. Streaks of bright red blood and/or mucus on the surface of a mostly normal, formed stool. This is generally caused by inflammation in the large intestine, where mucus is secreted to help protect the intestinal lining. While this does not necessarily indicate an emergency, it’s a good idea to keep a close eye out for further changes in your dog’s behavior and stool.

2. Soft-formed to liquid brown diarrhea, with or without streaks of blood. “Cow patty” and “soft-serve ice cream” are two frequent descriptors. As with the previous type, it is generally not life-threatening as long as there are no other signs of concern and it begins to improve within 24 to 48 hours. If your dog is acting normally otherwise— eating well, not vomiting, good attitude —a wait-and-see home approach may be tried (more on this to follow). Here again, red blood indicates inflammation and bleeding in the colon but does not necessarily mean that your pet is bleeding internally, as is often thought. This is a step up in concern from the previous condition, in the sense that the stool is now softer.

3. A large volume of bloody, watery, diarrhea. This one does require immediate evaluation by your veterinarian, especially with smaller dogs, as it can be an indicator of a common condition called hemorrhagic gastroenteritis, or HGE. (Read more about it here: thebark.com/hge) Tissue sloughing from the intestines gives it a distinctive appearance, and it’s often described as “raspberry jam” diarrhea.”

[anonymously]

If it was my dog I would take him to the emergency vet now/today for some testing and x-rays.
Bloody diarrhea is an indication of something being very wrong. Maybe a sharp bone fragment has caused some internal bleeding? Why are you doing this? A lot of dogs can’t tolerate raw.
Please do some research:
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+food
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=nutrition

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2011/09/integrating-myths-and-nonsense-with-standard-advice-for-allergic-pets/ (excerpt below)
Bottom Line
Allergies are a serious medical problem that causes a great deal of suffering for pets and their owners. Causes are complex and involve both genetic, developmental, and environmental factors, and symptoms tend to come and go unpredictably, which makes evaluating the effects of any particular intervention challenging. While there are many safe and effective therapies that can help manage allergy symptoms, there is no cure. Only complete avoidance of the antigens the individual is allergic to can eliminate symptoms entirely, and this is often not possible. No treatment that has any benefit is completely without risks, and the risks and benefits must always be carefully and rationally weighed.

Article on apoquel and treatment options for allergies http://www.2ndchance.info/Apoquel.htm
excerpt below:
Food Allergies are probably over-diagnosed in dogs (they account for, perhaps 5-10%). Hypoallergenic diets are occasionally, but not frequently, helpful in canine atopy cases but you should always give them a try. Food intolerances are more common – but considerably more likely to result in digestive disturbances and diarrhea than in itching problems.

Intradermal Skin Tests http://www.allergydogcentral.com/2011/06/30/dog-allergy-testing-and-allergy-shots/
“An intradermal skin test involves the injection of a small amount of antigen into your dog’s skin. This procedure is most often performed by a veterinary dermatologist or pet allergy specialist”.

BTW: Dogs can be stoic and not show any signs and symptoms of pain and discomfort, until it is extreme.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by anonymously.

[Ken Y]

Hello Everyone,

As the title reads, I am currently having a diarrhea with bright colored blood, which has been on and off twice now for about 2weeks. This is my first post and I read a few other posts on here about my dog’s current condition, but didn’t find exactly what I was looking for.

I have a 5yo Male Boston Terrier named ‘Hammond’ who was brought up on Taste of The Wild (Fowl Mix) dry kibble. He is my dog, but my father has grown quite fond of him and takes him during the work week and I get him on the weekends. He has been allergy tested due to an ongoing itchy skin condition since he was 1yo and tested positive to an abundance of substances. The main allergens consist of beef, venison, milk, dust mites and certain grass. I recently read an article that seemed to indicate that his skin condition may be a result of a yeast infection and have since switched his diet to a carb free raw diet.

He has been on a raw organic, no additive, low sodium chicken drumstick and thigh diet for about 4-5months now. He was about 28lbs before the raw diet and has since slimmed down to about 25lbs. His calculated serving size totals to be about 1.25lbs a day. I have found a prefered brand I like at a local grocery store and my father has been feeding him an organic brand from Costco with similar listings. He was perfectly fine with the switch with only one or two incidents, which involved bile throw up since the switch until recently. He has had about 2 separate incidents this past 2 weeks involving diarrhea and bright red blood spots. I took the appropriate steps and fasted him for a full day and gave him some rice and boiled chicken to see if symptoms improved and then went back to the drumsticks and thighs. Everything seemed fine for a few days, with the exception of softer stool than usual, but just yesterday, my father told me the diarrhea and blood was back.

We are taking him to the vet this Sat, but I’m more than positive that the Dr. is going to tell us to switch back to a reg dry kibble dog food as most vets don’t approve of raw diets.

Both diarrhea incidents happened when my father had him, feeding him the Costco organic chicken. Is it possible that maybe he got a bad batch of chicken? I have ordered a supply of the ‘Premeasured service’, chicken necks and green tripe from Reel Raw as recommended from this site and it will be arriving today. I made sure to list his allergens in the ground mix.

Should I stop with the raw?..

Thank you for the long read and any advise is appreciated.

[Alex p]

since meat is high in phosphorus and lower in calcium, too much meat is not good for dogs over long periods of time”. (Many people still confuse the disastrous all meat diets with meat-based diets; one is not good the other is ideal.) Grain-based diets for dogs, and even more so for cats, do not make nutritional sense.

You can offer some natural foods to provide some variety. Natural foods include fresh human-grade raw meat (e.g. raw lamb), raw meaty bones and vegetables

[Susan]

Hi, to save all the stuffing around, Get a Salvia & Hair test done thru Glacier Peak Holistic cost only $85 & test for 100+ Environment Triggers & 200+ Food items… once you know what is causing her itch you can eliminate them…
I bath in Malaseb medicated shampoo look into feeding a raw or cooked balanced diet, you cant eliminate the carbs in kibbles as they need the carbs to bind the kibble, most grain free kibbles are high is starchy carbs, peas, potatoes, tapioca, lentils, chickpeas etc or look at feeding those Dog Rolls read ingredients first as some may have crappy ingredients…. in Australia we have Crocodile rolls, Lamb Roll or Kangaroo rolls for dogs with allergies….
http://www.glacierpeakholistics.com/More-Than-an-Allergy-Test_p_80.html

[jakes mom]

I have an 11 year old beagle mix. He did fine on the BJ’s food (dry). I’ve used it as part of his rotation diet in the past but now he gets mostly raw.

[Kevin R]

Hi all, I am looking to transition from kibble to a home cooked diet for my dog, but am having trouble locating a good book to do so. I have saw the books by Dr. Becker and Steve Brown, but judging by the reviews, it seems they may focus mainly on raw diets. There is another named “Feed your Best Friend Better: Easy, Nutritious Meals and Treats for Dogs,” that gets some good praise from http://www.dogaware.com. However, the author suggest the recipes be added to commercial food. I’m trying to find good, balanced recipes in order to avoid commercial food. That’s my whole point of doing this. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Ptcbass:
Sorry for your loss.

My dog is prone to gaining a little weight during hot weather. During these periods I find feeding low fat foods along with exercising him in the morning and evenings help keep him trim; he doesn’t like hot weather. I feed about half kibble and to get more moisture in his diet I add either canned, commercial frozen/freeze dried raw, or fresh/homemade foods. I try to choose kibble, commercial raw, or canned that are equal in protein and fat calories or a little more calories from protein than fat.

I feed Fromm Gold Weight management in my rotation and you may want to take a look at Annamaet Lean or Wellness Core Weight Management. I feed both the kibble and canned of the Core Weight Management.

[Debra F]

I am beginning to think my two-year-old black lab pit mix has a potato allergy. She has one ear that gets very dirty and smelly. She has been on Back to Basics Lamb and Potato as her main dry food (I supplement with other flavors). As we all know by now B2B is going to stop producing dog food by the end of the year so I have been researching other quality, limited ingredient foods. It is nearly impossible to find a dry food that does not contain potatoes.

Additionally, I believe she has a problem with berries. When we first got her we put her on Blue Wilderness grain-free which contained berries. She had very back digestive problems so we then switched her to B2B.

Has anyone had issues with both potatoes and berries? I am not putting my dogs on a raw diet so please do not suggest this.

Thanks!

[Bobby dog]

What a terrible story, but a happy ending! That is a great budget for kibble IMO.

The protein & fat %’s in Puppy Chow are average, the fiber might be just a little more than other kibbles depending on what recipe you’re feeding. It averages 27% protein, 10-12% min. fat, and 4-5% fiber. Sometimes changes in any of these percentages can cause digestive upset. Something to keep in mind when deciding on a new food. Kibble in higher price ranges usually have a higher meat content so protein and fat percentages will go up along with calories per cup. One other thing to keep in mind is overfeeding can also cause digestive upset. If he is skin and bones I would work with my Vet to figure out the calories he needs to add healthy weight in a reasonable amount of time.

Check out Victor you should find several formulas to fit your needs within your budget; maybe the Chicken Meal w/Brown Rice. Looking at the Mitchell’s site I see they sell Purina Mills, Inc. They may sell their dog food lines, PMI Nutrition. I feed some recipes from their Infinia and Exclusive lines, these would be in your price range.

I also feed Nutrisource, Fromm, Precise, some Pro Plan recipes, Annamaet, Wellness Core, Nature’s Variety, and Rawz.

If you decide to buy on-line I regularly order from Chewy, Petflow, PetSmart, and Petco. They all have great customer service and prices.

I don’t feed Diamond products at this time due to their recall history; they make Taste of the Wild and manufacture some Solid Gold recipes along with some other brands. They have allot of affordable foods, if you decide to feed one of their products or anything they manufacture I suggest signing up for recall alerts:
/dog-food-recall-alerts/

I recommend adding moisture to kibble even if it’s just water. Adding fresh or canned foods could help with his weight. Some budget friendly canned foods are Wal-Mart’s Pure Balance Stews ($1/can), Tractor Supply Company 4Health Stews (.99/can), and if you have a Costco membership Kirkland Signature Nature’s Domain (.80/can) you have to buy it by the case. Each are 4-5 star DFA rated. I don’t recommend Pure Balance 95% or 4Health Grain free canned foods due to the high fat content.

This is a download I use as a guide for adding fresh foods to a kibble diet:
https://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DN330EBK

[Eugene G]

i adopted a 3 year old mastiff from an acquaintance. he was on raw diet and i continued it. The previous owner was feeding him 2.5 lbs. he was and i still am getting food from Armalinosk9. its human grade meet 70% meet 30% ground bones. i get chicken, beef and duck from them. i also add chicken feet, turkey necks, beef liver, chicken hearts and once in a while i add veggies and fruits ( 1/2 frozen apples grinded, sometimes i add a little of my veggie/fruit shakes(no grapes), a little cauliflower or a little carrots grinded, bananas etc). i also add a spoon of organic coconut butter every few days and also add “Natural Hip & Joint Supplement for Dogs with Organic Turmeric, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and MSM – 90 Count Chewable ” that i purchase on amazon as it was what previous owner did.
my boy is healthy and i experienced no problems with him for last 5 month.
i am wondering if there is anything missing in his diet. don’t want to neglect an important ingredient or end up with vitamin deficient dog. i appreciate your input.

[Susan]

Hi, I live in Australia so we have different brands, my boy has IBD Colitis (food sensitivities)every time I give Patch a probiotic he feels sick, I’ve read there’s a die off period, just keep taking the probiotics but I stopped I couldn’t handle watching Patch feel sick licking & licking his mouth & eating grass, so a lady at the pet shop said give him Papaya (Paw Paw) so I mashed up 1/2 a Papaya & put the mashed papaya in ice cube & froze, I was giving Patch 1 thawed ice cube of the papaya about 10.30am after our walked he loved it, at first I thought Patch was OK but again he started his mouth licking & eating grass…
I found a good dog probiotic had to be stored in the fridge or kept under 25 degrees so the heat doesn’t kill the live bacteria…also Tripe, tripe is excellent, Patch tried the K-9Natural Lamb Green Tripe was really good… K-9 Natural has their Raw frozen or their freeze dried Green Lamb Tripe, the smell was OK not as bad as I thought it would be…..Patch loved it but it made him feel sick….

My vet said she went to a seminar & the lady said they tested 10 popular dog probiotics & only 3 had live cultures Purina Fortiflora was suppose to be good, she didn’t mention the probiotics that weren’t good my vet said, I said if Patch doesn’t feel sick then its no good…

I joined a group on Face Book called “Fast Track Diet” (Official Group) run by Dr Norm Robillard he’s specializes in IBS SIBO Leaky Gut Acid Reflux etc
& has written a book called “Fast Tract Digestion” its for humans but I’d say a dog would have similar bowel & stomach problems with certain foods, he said it’s best to take probiotics on an empty stomach when your Hydrochloric Acid is low, either first thing in the morning or night just before bed & not with food….

I found this link what each strain of bacteria is for & what it helps Lactobacillus GG (L.rhamnosus) protects against respiratory illness, treats candida, colitis and diarhea, reduces stress and anxiety.. http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-to-choose-good-probiotic-supplement.html

[Patti S]

My dog does better on Pork than he does with Chicken! I use tenderloin fillets and I trim the fat.
You won’t find a large difference between the calories in pork tenderloin, ham, bone-in pork chops, and skinless chicken breasts, legs and thighs. Pork tenderloin has the fewest, with 93 calories in a 3-ounce serving, while ham contains 116 calories, which is the highest of the six samples. All six provide about the same amount of protein: 16 to 19 grams in 3 ounces.
You should thoroughly cook all pork, so don’t use it if you feed your dog a raw diet. But once cooked, Pork in itself is as harmless to dogs as chicken, beef or any other meat.
That said, if you would like to feed Pork raw, it is recommended that it be frozen for 3 weeks to kill potential parasites.

[C4D]

Hi Colby C,

There are several sites that have balanced homemade recipes, including dogaware, as InkedMarie mentioned. Whole Dog Journal has recipes. I’m a subscriber but I think the articles can be accessed for free. Balanceit is another helpful website.

There are also several books with balanced diets including See Spot Live Longer and Dr. Becker too.

The most important thing is to make sure the diet is balanced. I tend to use premixes like Grandma Lucy’s, The Honest Kitchen, etc to add to the cooked meat at feeding time. I cook enough meat to last several days. Crock pots are great for this purpose. InkedMarie is right, commercial raw is very easy, but it is expensive when you have multiple large dogs. Good luck with it!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by C4D.

[DogFoodie]

Most vets don’t have much training in nutrition. Unless yours is a veterinary nutritionist, I would take their food recommendations with a grain of salt. My vet typically only recommends raw diets.

My recommendation is that you find a food that you like and is high quality and to which your dog doesn’t react. You also need to look at the fiber content and is if the anal glad issue is fiber responsive.

[Jenn H]

I often feed my dogs combo and change their food every 3-4 months. It’s been great as far as avoiding recalls and it helps them create their own good bacteria. The body gets used to the same food.

Right now I have a 4 month old German Shepherd puppy. And I have been dealing with diarrhea off & on. I found out it could be due to teething. They produce more saliva. That ends up in the stomach and what comes out isn’t pleasant.
I gave him pumpkin, bland diet and probio. It helps.

Now I am giving him raw unpasteurized goat milk. So far so good.

The only thing is I am very careful about his calcium intake. He is not to exceed 1.5% per day. Even that is higher than I like. I try to keep it around 1-1.2% max.
I hate doing the math, but I know how important it is to control his growth. It’s important large breed puppies do not grow too fast.

Orijen is an excellent food. I am changing him to Acana. Orijen is a little out of my price range right now.

I would suggest that if you need to give him rice for diarrhea in the future that it be white rice not brown. The brown can be too much work to digest when their bellies aren’t feeling well. I used to give brown also until I was corrected.

Whatever direction you go in just be sure to keep track of the daily calcium amounts. Stay as close to 1% as possible. I believe the guidelines are .75-1.5%.
Often this mean contacting the dog food companies and asking what the MAX amt is in their food. They often list min amt if at all.

[C4D]

Hi Judith B,

I cook for my dogs frequently, but it’s always fresh, not canned, meat with a few organic veggies, generally carrots, celery and fresh parsley, sometimes broccoli or squash, depending on what I have in the garden or is on sale, NO SALT. I add this to a premix, like The Honest Kitchen, Sojos, or Grandma Lucy’s, which has the vitamins added. I also feed my dog’s a regular diet of commercial kibble, canned or raw that are complete and balanced.

I appreciate that you want to provide some healthy fresh cooked food for your dogs, but, IMHO, I don’t think you should be adding canned soup and broth. There’s a lot of sodium in those and dogs (or people) don’t need that much sodium. Regular Swanson a whole can has about 50% of the normal human daily intake. Tomato soup is also high in sodium, I just linked Campbell’s, but I’m an avid label reader and they all tend to have about 33% or better per serving, which is less than 1/2 the can.

http://swanson.campbellskitchen.com/broth/beef-broth/

http://www.campbellsoup.com/Products/Condensed/All/2341

This is the nutrition data of Cheese Whiz. I didn’t know which one you use, but they are all very similar in salt content. This is for 2 tbsp, not the whole jar, which would be a lot more.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/160/2

These are not healthy products to be adding to your dog’s diet. If you want to add some broth, cook fresh meat with a bit of water and use the cooking water as the broth. I do this all the time. I even use it as stock to make soups for my family.

I truly appreciate what you are trying to do for your dogs, but if you keep it to some fresh meat and vegetables in the crock pot, your dogs will be much healthier. I would still use this as a topper to a balanced dog food to keep your animals in the best of health. The balanceIt website, Whole Dog Journal, or dogaware has some recipes to give you an idea of what a balanced meal or supplement to their diet should look like. Good Luck!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by C4D.

[InkedMarie]

I know nothing about cooking for dogs, I feed raw but I cannot imagine why any dog needs tomato soup & cheese spread. you’d be smart to work with a nutritionist or holistic vet for a balanced diet or contact Lew Olsen at B-Naturals dot com or Mary Straus at DogAware dot com.

[Pamela S]

I chuckled when I read you post. I rotate my dogs kibble every day with a different 5 star brand. So every 5 days my dogs get a different kibble. Like you I also have my magic elixir I like to add, like you I make it in big batches and freeze. Mine is close, different meets cooked in water, organic vegetables. I have 4 dogs two rescues Sammi 9 lbs, Quinn 20 lbs and two Bernese Mountain Dogs. I am most concerned with the BMD’s because of their size, I want to keep them healthy so I am always researching, feeling guilty about not having them on a raw food diet, reading various web sites of feeding and generally driving myself crazy in the process of feeling like I am not doing enough for them.

So I posted on a BMD website and asked for advice, because the breed is not know for longevity (9 years) So I question people who had 10 years and older BMD’s what they attributed longevity to. The answer surprised me. I was sure I would pick up feeding tips. But the most prevalent answer was: it is just the luck of the draw. Some had dogs that lived long lives, some were short. It didn’t matter that they were all fed the same. Some people reported they did the raw diet and the dog died young while others that they fed cheap food to live to ripe old ages. Again and again the answer boiled down to luck of the draw.

So that made me try to not be so neurotic over food. I think what you are doing is great. I think the most important things are to keep them slim, as few shots as possible, and plenty of love. I am no expert, but that is pretty much the advice I got from knowledgeable owners.

Pamela

[Ryan L]

Hello,
We have a 1 year and 3 month year old female Maltese Yorkshire Yorkshire Terrier Mix named Lennon. She is the light of our life, very smart and playful but has had a delicate tummy from day one. The breeder we got her from was feeding her Purina’s and we switched her quickly to Fromm Gold Holistic Puppy Dry Dog Food. She did well with that but eventually got disinterested and was not eating often enough so we tried most of the flavors such as the Surf & Turf, Lamb & Lentils etc. Between the switching she would often get diarrhea but no idea if it was from her food or not. We did practice switching her food gradually instead of just introducing a brand new food right away. Every so often she would get a bout of diarrhea and we would feed her chicken and rice with a little low sodium chicken broth to soothe her tummy. She has never had a problem when we make her chicken and rice but we are hoping we don’t have to feed her that every day.

About 2 weeks ago she got real sick and was throwing up, eating grass, waking up in the middle night with bad diarrhea and we took her to the vet. They suggested we switch her food again so this time around we went with Prarie Gold Adult Grain-Free: http://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/#prairie-gold-adult. She has been on this for about a week and her poops are very soft often diarrhea so we are back to square 1… Sigh.

We are recent members on this site and still a bit overwhelmed with the choices if we go with a different brand a ll together. We have a Chuck and Don’s by our house and they mentioned Zignature but did not see that one included in the editors best of. I should also note we did try Merrick Limited Ingredient Diet Dry but took it back after a day once we learned it was bought out by Purina. Our Lennon is very small (5 pounds)1 year and 3 month year old Morkie with a sensitive tummy and often picky. I am thinking about taking back her current Prairie Gold Adult Grain-Free (we got this because we thought the grain free limited ingredient might help) and starting over with a different brand. If anyone has any suggestions for a dry non raw food we would love to hear it!
Cheers,
Ryan & Anna Luse

[Shawna]

Red,

First – Jan I’m not suggesting in my comments below to Red that you feed anything you are not comfortable with, I’m simply responding to Red’s Skeptvet quoted material.

I do like much of the information you gave the OP but your persistent backlash towards alternative approaches DESPITE being provided with science and sources showing results etc is nothing less than propaganda for everything allopathic. Which is also evident in the fact that you have no other sources than Skeptvet — one man’s opinions.

Let’s not forget that Skeptvet is not a nutritionist either yet he writes “unconventional, approaches to pet nutrition, such as raw diets, grain free foods, homemade diets, a preference for organic ingredients, and so on, to dismiss objections to these approaches made by veterinarians.” Yet he’s doing the very same thing by trying to cast a bad light on these “unconventional approaches” when some of his peers (some of whom ARE nutritionists) recommend those very diets. Let’s take a look shall we

Dr. Meg Smart not only is a veterinary nutritionist but she TAUGHT veterinary nutrition. She recommends homemade (raw or cooked) and likens kibble to feeding your kids “kraft dinners and the likes”. She writes “I always ask clients” what do you or did you feed your children” if they reply “Kraft dinners and the likes” I do not advise a homemade diet.” – See more at: http://www.angryvet.com/angryvet-nutrition-interview-drs-joseph-wakshlag-and-meg-smart/#sthash.dc3Xl7e0.dpuf Dr. Smarts course, by the way, is an “elective” course. Vets at her school are not required to take her course. “Dr. Smart has taught a small animal nutrition elective course to fourth-year veterinary students since 1994.” https://www.usask.ca/wcvm/wcvm_people/profiles/Smart_Marion%20Meg.php

Or then there is veterinary nutritionist Dr. Susan Wynn who also recommends homemade diets. “Homemade diets are flexible, tasty and in some cases healthier than over the counter dog and cat foods. For some pets with multiple medical conditions, a homemade diet offers the only hope for meeting complex nutritional requirements.” http://www.susanwynn.com/Formulated_Diets.php

The Marvistavet link I posted above suggesting a homemade diet, although not a nutritionist, is a veterinary website.

Although not technically a nutritionist, as far as I know, Dr. Elizabeth Hodkins did work for Hills per her Linkedin page so I’m counting her. She too recommends homemade (and raw). Dr. Smart and Dr. Hodkins co-wrote the book “Not Fit for a Dog!: The Truth about Manufactured Cat and Dog Food” http://www.amazon.com/Not-Fit-Dog-Truth-Manufactured/dp/1610351495

Dr. Smart has some interesting data on science and pet food. She writes
“A recent article “Science under Siege” although about pharmaceutical research(Discover Magazine Oct2007)) reflects what is happening in the pet food industry . Private funding to academic institutions by big pharmaceutical companies is allowing science to become a powerful tool in their fight against regulation. Research in small animal nutrition has been traditionally underfunded or more accurately seldom funded by independent granting agencies. This has left the field wide open for the pet food industry to control and direct the research done in an academic institution, and within their own facilities. Research into pet foods is seldom at “arm’s length”.

The validity of trials conducted on dogs and cats kept in a kennel or research facility is questioned, as these animals do not have the same freedoms and human bonding experiences of the pets kept within a home environment. Most nutritional trials on companion animals are only valid for that particular group, maintained under the same conditions, fed identical diets. Even the results from the relatively simple non invasive digestibility, palatability and feeding trials done in kennels or catteries specifically established and approved to conduct these trials have come under scrutiny when environment, previous diet, gender, breed and age differences are considered.” http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/11/evaluating-nutritional-research.html

I’m interested on your thoughts on these points I’ve presented.

[Anonymous]

What do Veterinarians Know About Nutrition?

“It is not unusual for people promoting unconventional, approaches to pet nutrition, such as raw diets, grain free foods, homemade diets, a preference for organic ingredients, and so on, to dismiss objections to these approaches made by veterinarians. These people will often claim that veterinarians know little about nutrition and that what they do know is mostly propaganda fed to them by commercial pet food manufacturers. Like most bad arguments, this one contains a few bits of truth mixed in with lots of unproven assumptions and fallacies”.

Click on link for full article, also, I find the comments for these articles informative too.

[Shawna]

Hi Sheila23,

Although a homemade diet is absolutely doable I would do a LOT more research before you decide on any one brand. Example — Tripe is a great food for kd dogs but it is supposedly already balanced in calcium to phosphorus. Adding a premix like Preference, that is designed to balance higher phosphorus meat, could be problematic. Although phosphorus needs to be watched, you can go too low too early in the disease.

Balance IT could be an option but I personally wouldn’t have fed my KD girl such a low protein diet (ESPECIALLY in the early stages). Based on the nutrient profile of their beef and rice early stage kd diet the protein amount is only 15.3%. That’s ridiculously low for early stage kd without any complicating issues like proteinuria. Not even enough to meet the minimum protein amounts required for an a complete and balanced diet. They also use corn oil — EEEEKK. The chicken & rice recipe is even worse at 14.9% protein.

If you can afford it, I would highly recommend looking at Darwin’s prescription KD diet formulated by vet Dr. Barbara Royal. The ingredient list is
“Human-Grade Meat: Beef Meat, Beef Tripe, Beef Pancreas, Beef Lungs, Beef Kidneys, Beef Liver, Beef Heart, Beef Spleen.

Vegetables: Cabbage, Celery, Squash, Sweet Potato, Beets, Romaine Lettuce.

Special Nutrient Mix: Filtered Water (for processing), Sardine oil (source of EPA, DPA and DHA), Egg Shell Powder, Parsley, Apple Cider Vinegar, Inulin, Cornsilk, Dandelion Root, Cinnamon, Cranberry, Linden Flowers, , Chitosan, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin E, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin D3, Aloe Vera.” http://www.darwinspet.com/our-raw-foods/our-raw-dog-food/intelligent-design-ks/

I LOVE that you are starting Alvin on Standard Process Renal Support. It is the one supplement that my Audrey NEVER did without since diagnosis. She had KD from birth (symptoms showed at just 6 weeks of age) but she wasn’t diagnosed till she was 13 months old. She was given one year to live after that. She lived to almost her ninth birthday and it was an infection that took her life not the normal progression of kidney disease.

Some other things to look at for Alvin — purified water (as much as he wants), extra water soluble vitamins if he urinates large volumes of water. A high quality probiotic and a prebiotic made with acacia fiber helps to clear BUN etc from the blood allowing for higher protein to be fed or simply helps clear BUN when necessary. This is called “nitrogen trapping”. Giving Evian (or another higher calcium, lower sodium mineral water) has been shown to be beneficial for kidney disease. I did give my Audrey fresh, raw garlic most of her life. I still believe that if I hadn’t gotten lazy and quit giving it to her near the end of her life she wouldn’t have developed the severe infection that ended up damaging her kidneys and taking her life. Enzymes to help with the digestion of his food. Certain supplements and herbs can be helpful — spirulina provides many nutrients, food grade activated charcoal given off an on in small amounts can help clear toxins, organic turmeric helps with inflammation and also helps prevent scar tissue (works best when combined with pepper or the enzyme bromelain from pineapple). Chlorella is a wonderful detoxer and it helps build red blood cells due to the high amounts of chlorphyll in it. Apple cider vinegar can help with indigestion (fed with food in small amounts or given via syringe but must be diluted first). Ginger extract and therapeutic grade peppermint oil can help with nausea (later in the illness). I also recently read that there is other therapeutic grade essential oils that can help the kidneys but I don’t remember the particulars of the article. Vet Dr. Melissa Shelton would be the person to seek out if wanting to incorporate essential oils.

I was lucky with Audrey, she was able to eat commercial raw products clear up to a few months before she passed. I’m not sure if that was because of the supplements, being fed raw from weaning or what but she did quite well. Possibly look at lower phosphorus commercial foods and then add small amounts of low phosphorus toppers (lightly cooked egg whites and coconut oil as an example) to keep the calories up while lowering the overall phosphorus even more. There are some great nutritionists out there as well that could be quite beneficial to you and Alvin.

Hoping Alvin does as well as, or better than, my Audrey!!!

Thank you Marie!

[SNOWFLAKE]

Thank you Jonathan.!!!! Really appreciate all your help. Will try these recipes soon . and as for c4D wasnt sure of the time difference and really sorry to have bothered you.Its just that i am super careful and excited about my wynn and his new diet so couldnt be patient. Take care and thank you for your time and effort. Aimee, I didnt notice you dont feed raw ..its all cool. THANKS ANYWAYS.

[aimee]

Hi Reewa,

As I don’t feed a homemade raw diet I can’t advise you on how to do it to ensure proper nutrition during such a critical life stage. I feel the risks of feeding homemade raw outweigh any proposed benefits. Sorry I can not help you further. aimee

[SNOWFLAKE]

LOTS OF USEFUL INFO IN THESE LINKS.. thanks a million. I understood the balance of the diet now. One more doubt to be cleared please. He weighs about 6kilos now. So how much can I feed him and if someone can share a raw menu for puppies it would be gr8. I feed him 4times a day and have decided to give him 50%kibble and the other half raw. So he gets both benefits. Also can I FEED RAW AND KIBBLE ON THE SAME DAY? if not please share a day’s menu with me. THanks once again for all your help. any fox terrier owners here:????

[C4D]

Hi Reewa R,

Although aimee and I don’t always agree, I do agree with her in feeding a commercial raw as it is very important to make sure the diet is balanced. This is particularly important since you have a very young dog who could suffer some serious deficiencies if he doesn’t get the correct vitamins and minerals in the right dose.

You could feed homemade raw or homemade cooked, but you need to follow a diet that is balanced. Whole Dog Journal has several articles on balancing a diet as does dogaware.com and as Jonathon said, Dr. Karen Becker has some balanced home made diets. Here’s the link to dogaware:

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_7/features/Home-Prepared-Dog-Food-Nutritional-Information_20568-1.html

http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjhomemade3.html

[SNOWFLAKE]

Can you please also send me photos of raw fed dogs and explain how the diet benefited your puppies

[aimee]

Hi Reewa,

Congrats on your new puppy! If I were to g with raw diet in a pup I’d want to use a commercial product that has undergone feeding trails, has been through high pressure processing to decrease pathogens and comes from a company that has a vet nutritionist on staff.

Growth is a very demanding stage and if the diet isn’t well composed it can result significant long term health problems. Growth is a life stage in which I wouldn’t choose to home prepare the food.

[SNOWFLAKE]

Hey/// Just joined this forum. I own a smooth fox terrier.. He is 2months old. Currently i feed him kibble .. but I think raw food is more beneficial for dogs ..there are pros and cons to this but if it will benefit my puppy i am willing to take the risk. please can someone suggest ways of starting him on Barf.. I am thinking raw chicken mince would be ok to start with .. Not sure. PLease help . need some professional advice.

[Jenn H]

I get it that grains aren’t part of the dog’s “ancestoral diet” technically, but they kind of are. They’re carnivorous scavengers. What any canine preys on is usually an animal that eats grains & plants. And they eat the whole animal. Including that animal’s digestive system. What would be in their stomach??? Grains & plants.
Granted the contents would be broken down. The canine can digest it because of that. When grain is in kibble it’s been cooked. Thus making it digestible for the pet dog.
I would rather expose my dogs to variety and see what the tolerance is. I wouldn’t avoid giving a child peanut butter because so many kids are allergic and I wouldn’t want to take a chance that mine is. In fact I would likely expose them to nuts early & often to build a natural immunity.
Domestic dogs and wild canines are not exactly the same. I understand that completely. (Which is why I’m not 100% convinced all raw/BARF is the best choice either.) Our pets’ bodies have evolved & changed as they have become more integrated with humans.

The whole chicken allergy dogs seem to be acquiring I was told is because of different companies sourcing their meats from the very same vendors. I remember when California Natuals was bought by P&G. Every dog I’ve known to be fed that food suddenly had reactions. A trainer told me she found out that it’s because of where the ingredients are sources. Despite the fact that the recipe & ingredients remained unchanged. As soon as I told my friends what I had learned they all switched and the dogs stopped being itchy, picky, having upset stomachs.

I know at the end of the day it’s up to me to figure out what’s right for my animals. If that means being unconventional or not following the fads, then so be it. I’m the one who knows them better than anyone else. I’m the one who is obligated to do right by them.

You aren’t the first to warn of obsolete suggestions from Great Dane Lady. I think I’ll just stay clear of her advice all together.
I do appreciate your perspective & experience though.
Thanks.

[C4D]

Hi Kristin C,

I’m in complete agreement with you on dogs being fed a more natural, balanced diet and that is the building block to fending off diseases. It often helps dogs that already are diagnosed with various conditions such as diabetes and seizures, etc. It sounds like your doing all the right things for your dog with the heart murmur too.

I also believe that way too many chemicals are being put on our dogs and personally use minimal, if any topicals. I actually just pull the ticks off my dogs, identify them (we have deer and brown dog ticks in abundance in my area as well as Lyme Disease) and try to keep them out of areas of known infestations. My guy that got the ticks got no less than 6 in less than a week’s time. I’ve also used some natural repellants on my dogs after getting ticks with great success.

I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m just saying it would be interesting to hear what happens if you decide to try omitting the Advantix. Here’s an interesting link on fleas from Dr. Peter Dobias:

http://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/34542021-can-feeding-a-raw-diet-prevent-fleas

Good luck with your pups!

[Kristin C]

Lucky? 1 dog going from 10 ticks per week to none, and 1 dog never having ticks living here is lucky? I think there is more to tick and flea infestation than is being discussed. If I am brave enough next year I will completely omit the Advantix and just go with feeding a raw diet plus B-vitamins and see what happens. I will say that I have almost completely eliminated one of my dogs heart murmurs by feeding her raw heart, so I do believe a lot has to do with diet.

[C4D]

Hi Kristen C,

It’s an interesting theory. I do think a healthy immune system could be a great help. All 3 of the dogs @ my house eat identical diets, including fresh and raw as 1 meal per day. The only dog that got ticks this year is the one who insists on going through all of the tall grass in a known tick area. I think you might have gotten lucky, but I’d love to hear what you do & the subsequent results next year. 🙂

[Kristin C]

C4D-I was just asking a question about the possibility of the immune system being a factor. I actually live in Salem, CT, Lyme tick heaven. We live on 2 1/2 acres where my dogs have regular free roam in the woods. One of them (6 yrs) has had 10 ticks a week in the past (with Advantix). Since switching her to raw food, plus B-vitamins, even with a half dose of Advantix I can’t remember the last time she had a tick. My younger dog (2 yrs) has never had a tick, and she has spent a considerable time roaming the woods, and she is on the same raw food, B-vitamins, half dose of Advantix. I was worried a few months ago about fleas since they were both itchy, but I added more chicken to their raw food diet and that solved it.

[Alex p]

Many proactive, integrative, and holistic veterinarians have long recognized the nutritional drawbacks to commercially available dry pet food.

Most popular dry formulas don’t contain clean ingredients – those approved for human consumption – and they aren’t biologically balanced for obligate carnivores (cats), and scavenging carnivores (dogs).

However, in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, we saw the production of better quality dry foods that contained more diverse ingredients. Coincidentally, during this same period, pet owners began to see the benefits of home-cooked diets because they could control the quality of the food they fed their dog or cat.

Although improvements to commercial dry pet foods addressed some of the quality control issues — and began to address the biological appropriateness of ingredients – they didn’t address one important fact. Companion animals were still consuming an entirely dead, inorganic, over-processed diet that was extruded and cooked at very high temperatures, rendering it devoid of any of the health benefits of living foods.

[Jenn H]

Does anyone feed their dogs a diet of kibble and canned/raw/dehydrated?
I have large breed dogs that I like to supplement their dry when the weather gets cold to keep their weight up.
My real.concern is my puppy. He’s 4 months old. GSD. Approx 30 lbs. I know I have to keep his calcium at 1.5% max. Because of that I am having a problem finding the right food.
He acts like he’s starving to death even though he gets 3 3/4 cups fed over 4 meals. Right now he’s on Wellness Core Grain Free Puppy.

I’m looking for either a food that will satisfy his appetite or something I can supplement/replace some of his kibble with that will allow me to stay within the calcium guidelines.
While I am not opposed to canned, raw or dehydrated, I cannot feed strictly those types of foods.
I would also prefer a NON grain free food. Unless a dog has allergies I know they actually need some grains. Plus it seems that grain free has far more carbs than non grain free.

I appreciate any suggestions.
Thank you.

[Shawna]

Hi Paul R,

They now know that dogs with kidney disease actually need good amounts of protein in the diet as it helps with the blood flow (aka GFR) and therefore keeping the blood clean. The exception to that rule is when the dog has high amounts of protein in the urine as that is a sign of inflammation of the kidneys. The protein should be lowered until the reason for the inflammation has been found and addressed — possibly a bacterial infection, stones, food sensitivity (they know in humans that gluten can cause increased proteinuria – I would assume reactions to foods can be the same in dogs). Here’s some data on that “A gluten-free diet induced in 75% of the cases a parallel improvement in these abnormal immunological data. Mean proteinuria values were found to be significantly decreased after 6 months of the diet and a reduction was also observed in microscopic hematuria.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2311308

May not be the case with your pup but I think it is often overlooked as a possibility.

My dog had kidney disease from birth and lived nine years. I fed her a raw diet but once in a while I was running in and out or really sick for a few days and would give her some kibble. Each time I gave her kibble I had to deal with the consequences of doing so for several days after. I would highly advise against ANY kibble, even prescription. The new prescription Science Diets are chicken and beef based and look appealing. If you can’t home cook and don’t want to feed raw it would be something to try while you are trying to deal with the proteinuria. I would also give a high quality omega 3 fish oil as it is anti-inflammatory etc. Another to try is organic (must be organic) turmeric (the spice). Turmeric is anti-inflammatory as well as anti-fibrotic, which are both helpful for the failing kidneys. Start with a small amount and build. Most dogs do well with it but my Audrey didn’t seem to tolerate it well. 🙁

Don’t give any more flea or tick meds or heartworm preventatives. Also no more vaccines. Some states will give rabies exemptions for pets with life threatening diseases. Take advantage of that if your state does.

It also helps to give reverse osmosis filtered water. There are so many impurities in most tap water. Always have water available. I would also look at a good probiotic and prebiotic. The right ones can help clear BUN etc from the blood which will help your pup feel better. This is called “nitrogen trapping” which was apparently discovered and coined by Iams researchers. I used a probiotic called Garden of Life Primal Defense (a human product) and a prebiotic called Fiber 35 Sprinkle Fiber (also human). I’ve heard that Sprinkle Fiber is no longer made but it was simply 100% pure acacia fiber. Any source of acacia fiber will work. Not all fibers work, some make things worse. I found this out the hard way. The one product I would not do without is made by Standard Process and is called Canine Renal Support. It helps in many many ways.

I hope something I’ve wrote is helpful for you and your sweet puppy!! Let me know if I can clarify anything or answer any questions etc.

Prayers to you both!!

[losul]

Hi again. Sorry for the tardy reply, all.

I’ve some preference for feeding a dog a majority of ruminant meats overall with a lesser amount of poultry overall in my dogs diet, provided the the beef (or other ruminant) is coming from a good, properly raised and fed source. I think the overall fats balance out better that way, and without using much vegetable fats. And as long as I can afford it!!

I wouldn’t necessarily say that beef heart is better, nothing against poultry
hearts, much depends on the source, and for just some supplemental or small batch
use, chicken hearts are handier to use than beef hearts!

I had kind of a bad experience the first time I bought beef hearts a few years ago.(from a different, conventionally raised source, feedlot) I thought never again! They were oversized and completely encased in a way overly tough and thick membrane and excessive suet.. the inside was as bad, and not at all cleaned-gristle, connective tissue,vessels, excessive suetetc., and frankly, they looked old, grayish, and tough. It took alot of effort to clean them enough to suit me, way too much effort, and ended up with alot of waste. It wasn’t worth it, and was a good while before I ever tried beef hearts again. In hindsight some of that gristle
and connective tissue, etc. , wouldn’t have hurt to include anyway!

Where I’ve been getting them the last few times, the outside only has a partial and thin membrane and little suet fat, are very fresh, and the butcher near completely cleans the insides for me, I have not much left to do except cut them up! And I get them for only $1.49/lb cleaned weight! I get good clean liver and kidneys 1.29/lb the same place. I guess not many people around here want to eat heart or organ meats! But the regular and lean cuts of beef are every bit as expensive as anywhere else! So when I make a beef batch I’ve been using the hearts for up to 1/2 of the total muscle meat amount. It equals a good savings vs using all lean human prefered cuts for all the muscle meat. In making a full balanced recipe, I can’t count the heart as organ meat, I still add the small amounts of liver and kidney, and I won’t press the heart amount any beyond 1/2 of the muscle meat count. They say too much heart can cause loose stools, never had that problem or with any any food, but the extra heart I’m using helps to keep some beef in the diet at more an affordable price for me! If one were to use all heart for the muscle meat though, there would very
likely be some deficit somewhere in the nutrition to look for and abundances of others, and I wouldn’t ever advise using overly excessive amounts. Also dogs handle cholesterol differently than humans, but heart, liver and some other organs do contain a disproportionately large amount of cholesterol, something to keep in mind. Don’t over do it!.

Faith, so your dog is about 60lbs. BTW, I believe my dog is 1/2 boston terrier and
1/2 bull terrier of some sort, probably staffy or pit, I’ve got a compact model though,
only about 40 lbs. That’s great that your feller found a loving home with you! I
would assume that his regular diet is around 1150 calories give or take? For your
purposes and for now as supplemental only, yeah I would limit the chicken hearts to
NO more than about 3 or 4 ounces. at least if and until until you are more prepared too see to it that the diet retains balance with your additions. Here, raw Chicken hearts show more calories and fat than the beef hearts, raw. (you might have to enter the serving size) but 100 grams chick hearts (about 3.5 ounces) has about 150 calories. add to that maybe a teaspoon of fish oil a day, an egg a couple times a week, and youre already pushing nearly 20% of unbalanced supplemental calories in his diet, and that then isn’t allowing for any unbalanced treats!

The more things you would add if you do so, or if you go with homemade meals, the more attention you are going to need pay to keeping nutritional balance. And you should really
balance out the extra phosphorus you are adding as it is, with calcium supplement.

If using finely ground eggshell, add 1/2 teaspoon to 2/3 t for each 1 lb of meat, organs, egg etc used. Calcium is very important in a dog’s diet, overall calcium in the diet should at least equal the amount of phosphorus, but also never going more than 2X the amount of phosphorus. a ratio of between 1:1 to 2:1. Most commercial diets I think fall between a ratio of 1.2:1 and 1.6:1, so there would likely be enough buffer already there in your commercial diet to cover your extra phosporus additions, but if me, I would still add at least a bit of calcium anyway.

raw chicken hearts

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/poultry-products/664/2

raw beef hearts

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3464/2

I hear ya on financial bias. dogaware.com is a great site with lots of useful info, some is a little outdated, as Mary Strauss is not so active anymore, but she has nothing to sell as far as I know. and has generously accumulated a ton of good info/articles there.

I prefer a pump bottle for fish oil, so I use Iceland Pure sardine/anchovy, I keep it in the fridge and get a fresh bottle every 3 months. This brand already has some mixed tocopherols in it (vit E), but I still add some additional E in my dog’s diet.

I use some veggies, fruits, and even some select grains, but never in abundance. I
don’t know if you’ve ever heard the old idiom “as fit as a butcher’s dog” I don’t
think the typical old time butcher fed his dog an abundance of starchy plant
material!!! I also still use 25% commercial kibble, haven’t ever been able to get away from it completely for various reasons.

Lastly, I might not be around here to write much anymore, but as you can see from the replies to your thread(and other threads) there are so many awesomely helpful people, good people, on site to help with questions you have, or even just support!! And even if they don’t have answers right away, they have also proven to be excellent researchers!!!

G’night everyone!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by losul.

[Kim J]

So, I just became a member after considering adding a dehydrated food to my dog’s raw diet. After choosing the 7 dehydrated foods that received 5 stars on this site, I went to the Editor’s choice section to see if that would narrow my choice down even further. Eureka! Wellness Core Air was on the Editors choice list. I clicked on the link to buy it, and then also did a google search to try to figure out how much food this two pound bag would make toward the daily requirements of my three great danes.

And that’s when I came across some horrible reviews on Amazon.com from people who cited to the inclusion in allegedly all of Wellness’ products of green tea extract and underlying research indicating that green tea extract is toxic for dogs. Links were provided to publications and were active and did lead to actual publications – one in 2009 and another in 2011. Granted both indicated that the toxicity was seen in fasted dogs, but still.

So, my question is this – how do I reconcile these papers with the reviews on this site? Do the reviewers of this site have information to the contrary?