[mah4angel]

Yes, yes, I know, feeding your dog table food is never a good idea. We should stick to our homemade, raw, dry, whatever dog foods and not feed our dogs table scraps.
However, my dog doesn’t understand that just because something fell on the floor, does not mean that he can pick it up and then growl at mommy when she tries to take it away from you and then eat it.
He did this with a feta cheese-stuffed olive the other day and today he stole a bit of my red baby bell pepper! The bell pepper was completely void of seeds, I checked about ten times before sitting down to eat it and my little guy snatched some up while I was at the stove and he ate it. I mean, I really didn’t expect him to want to eat my olive or my bell peppers. He doesn’t like Ziwipeak’s treats! He’s a very finicky dog. My dog is weird.
It’s not like children, where when they like a vegetable it’s really fabulous, I have no idea whether or not that but of bell pepper was good for him.
IF IT IS GOOD FOR HIM, should I give bell pepper slices to him as a treat as something low in fat, protein, and carbohydrates? I have no idea what kind of a monster I’ve created here…

[Hound Dog Mom]

There is no such as thing as “too much protein” for a healthy dog. Size also has nothing to do with protein requirements – all dogs, regardless of size, have the same basic nutrition requirements. Dogs only require protein and fat, they have no dietary requirement for carbohydrates. Ideally – the diet for a healthy dog with a typical activity level should be high in protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates.

My dogs eat a homemade raw diet that ranges between 45% and 55% protein, 30% and 40% fat and roughly 15% carbohydrates. My dogs are active and have trouble maintaining weight so I keep the fat content of their meals on the high side. For a less active dog or dog with an average activity level you would want to keep the fat level around half the protein level – so if you were feeding 50% protein you’d want fat at about 25%. You want to keep the carbohydrate level of the meal low. I wouldn’t ever recommend less than 30% protein or less than 15% fat for a healthy dog and I believe protein levels above 40% are ideal. It will be easier to achieve proper protein levels if feeding raw, fresh cooked or canned foods – all kibbles are fairly low in protein as they require a certain amount of starch in the formula to act as a binder.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[LeahT]

Thank you HDM! It seems to be pretty much impossible to find natural dog food without rosemary, extract, or oil, but I have found a few. Wysong seems to be one of the best as far as high in protein and low in carbs/fat, but I can’t find any without rosemary. I’m hoping the new vet we are taking her to next week will be able to do an allergy test so that I know a little more of what I’m looking for, but I do have a few in mind now.

DieselJunki – I have been looking into dehydrated food as well. It looks to be pretty expensive, but I’m perfectly willing to give it a try with her if it will help. Is there something you would recommend?

[Hound Dog Mom]

I’ve heard mixed information regarding feeding rosemary containing foods to epileptic dogs. I’ve read sources that claim it’s a neurotoxin and can trigger seizures and I’ve also read that in the form and amount it’s used in in pet food it’s not an issue. If it were me, I’d avoid it – better safe than sorry.

A “low fat” food would be a kibble having 12% or less fat, a canned food having 15% or less fat or a raw food having 17% or less fat. Dogs foods typically don’t disclose the level of carbohydrates (although you can find estimations for certain formulas on the review section of DFA) so for this reason I find it easier to focus on the protein level of the food rather than the carb level. As far as kibble goes, foods with 30% or more protein are going to be the “lower carb” foods. If you go with canned or raw foods you can find options that are much lower in carbs/higher in protein than you could if feeding kibble (although many canned foods and raw foods are high in fat so you need to be conscious of this).

[LeahT]

Thank you for the links! I read through them and they are all very helpful.

We have been going to the same vet for years, and my parents for many years before now, but I have been wondering for a while if he is sort of out of touch with more current practices. We had taken our lab to another vet about an hour from here, but he brushed her seizures off as being something genetic. He was the one who recommended we try Neurotrophin, but didn’t seem to have any concern about her food. I will definitely be getting her thyroid levels checked as well.

From what I read in those our Jack needs a diet without carbs, low in fat, and high in protein. I would love to put her on a raw food diet, but I honestly don’t know enough about it that I would trust myself to do that. I would rather, at least until I do some additional research, find a dog food brand to try with her that suits that diet.

I have also read online somewhere (I can’t remember if it was this site or somewhere else?) that there might be some link between seizures and rosemary in dog food. Does anyone know if there is any real evidence behind that?

So, does anyone have any recommendations for low carb, low fat, and high protein dry dog food? And possibly one that falls into that criteria that does not have rosemary? I’m not even certain what is considered “low fat” and “low carb” for dog food, but I found a few through this site that seemed to fit that: Back to Basics, Dried-N-Alive Chicken Formula, Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural, EVO Turkey and Chicken Formula, Primal Freeze-Dried Beef Formula, and ZiwiPeak Dehydrated Venison. I’m not sure what would be the best, but the freeze-dried/dehydrated seemed to have the lowest carb content.

Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

First off – do your dogs have a health condition that would require them to be on a low protein diet? There’s a reason that all the “top” dog foods are high in protein – protein in the low 20’s is way too low for a healthy dog. Unless a dog has a health condition requiring a low protein diet, I don’t ever advise feeding a food with less than 30% protein. My dogs eat between 45% and 55% protein at each meal. All dogs, regardless of breed or size, have the same basic nutritional requirements and the majority will thrive on diets high in quality protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates.

Second off – please don’t pick one food and feed it for life, that’s the worst thing you could do for your dogs. Dogs need variety. My dogs eat something completely different at each meal. I’d recommend picking several brands that have good ratings, testing them, and rotating through the varieties your dogs do well on. When feeding kibble it’s also important to add in some less processed species appropriate foods when possible – this could be a quality canned or dehdyrated food, healthy leftovers (lean meat, cooked low glycemic veggies), plain yogurt or kefir, tinned sardines, raw, etc.

Hope that helps!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I had never heard of it but I just looked it up online and it looks pretty bad. The website I found said it contains by-products, brewer’s rice, wheat and animal digest. The formulas all look pretty low in protein and fat as well (meaning they are high carb). I’d say it’s probably a 2 star food at best, maybe 3 stars for the high protein variety.

[soho]

Hi anakinthedog

I’m sorry to hear the your dog is not doing well.

I have some questions:
How often do you test your dog’s blood sugar?
Did anything change when his blood sugar rose to 600? (food, exercise, cold/flu etc)

In order to make any changes to your dog’s care regimen you have to be able to monitor his blood sugar every 2-4 hours to make sure everything is going well. Low blood sugar is much more dangerous then high blood sugar. Low blood sugar can kill you on the spot while high blood sugar takes months to kill you. Sorry for being graphic. If you did not change ANYTHING right before his bg (blood glucose) began to rise then you might lower his food intake by 10% and raise his insulin dose by 10% wait 24 hours while monitoring bg closely and then if his bg is still above 300 you could lower the food and raise the insulin each by 10% again.

I am not a fan of using only one type of insulin for controlling diabetes. You can achieve much greater control if you use a rapid acting insulin right before or after meals to control the bg rise from the meal and an ultra long acting insulin to control the body’s production of glucose that has nothing to do with meals.

Wet food, whether it is homemade or canned is a much better choice for a diabetic dog than kibble. All kibbles contain a significant amount of carbohydrates.

Remember with diabetes carbohydrates are the ENEMY. Limit them as much as you can. The lower his diet is in carbohydrates the better off you and him will be. I would try to stay below 15% in total carbs for your dog’s diet.

Managing diabetes is not an easy task but it can be done. As a guide for anyone who wants to learn about diabetes and obtain the skills necessary to control this disease I recommend the book:

You will learn a great deal about diabetes if you read this book and it really doesn’t matter that this book was written for human diabetes.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by soho.

[anakinthedog]

Good information here; it gives me a lot to think about.
I’m currently feeding 2 cups a day of dry Royal Canin Diabetic kibble and no more than one cup a day of Merrick’s Grain Free 96% Real Chicken canned- he refuses the dry without the canned on top. Urination is becoming more frequent as well as the accidents in the house the last two days. Ketones are normal; blood sugar is close to 600. He’s 34 lbs and consuming as much water as he did before diagnosis of diabetes a month ago. I’m taking him back to the vet this week as his sugar was controlled up until these past two days.
In the interim, has anyone tried feeding their diabetic dog Simply Nourish’s canned grain and gluten free stews? Anakin loved it before he was diagnosed and it seems to be a pretty good food. Low in carbs, high in protein.
Side Note: Im trying to keep his caloric intake around 780/ day. he gets 8 units of Humilin N twice a day after breakfast and dinner. I am not giving insulin with lunch.
Thanks for any feedback you may be able to give and for the OP as well.

[ella]

I have my dog on Primal Raw Frozen been formula. I like the product, but am looking for a cheaper alternative. Not necessarily better, just cheaper. The Primal costs about $4 – $5 per day for my 33 pound dog! Yikes.

Is there another food that is mostly meat and very low carbs that is cheaper?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi boxermim2013 –

I can relate to you here. One of my girls, Gertie (the dog in my avatar) is extremely difficult to keep weight on. She was so scrawny as a pup I had tests run too and they came back clear. The vet told me once she was spayed she’d put some weight on, but she was spayed 2 years ago and keeping weight on her is still a struggle. With her, as long as her hip bones aren’t protruding I feel I’m doing good!

I wasn’t able to get her over 60 lbs. until I switched her to a high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate raw diet. I make her food and I generally keep protein between 45% and 55%, fat between 30% and 40% and carbs less than 20%. I’ve now got her holding steady at 68 lbs. – given her height she should be much heavier, but at least she doesn’t look emaciated any more. I also give her lots of treats between meals, I mostly feed balanced foods as treats so I can feed her more without throwing off her diet – i.e. freeze-dried raw medallions, frozen kongs layered with grain-free kibble and canned pumpkin, ziwi peak food for training treats and (prior to the recent recall) I was using EVO’s Wild Craving biscuits which conform to AAFCO nutrient profiles for balanced foods.

Some other options – Abady makes a very calorie-dense granular food – it has around 800 calories per cup (nearly double the calories of Blue Buffalo). I’ve used Abady and before and was pleased. I also know people that have put weight on their dogs with satin balls – you can look up recipes online – they usually include fatty hamburger, eggs, oil, molasses, etc. You could add a balanced omega 3-6-9 and/or coconut oil to his food for a fat/calorie boost. You could try supplementing with digestive enzymes to ensure he’s digesting everything he does eat. If you want to stick with kibble, I’d also recommend at least picking a more calorie-dense formula (>500 kcal. per cup). Some calorie-dense options include – Canine Caviar Grain-Free Puppy (636 kcal. per cup), Dr. Tim’s Momentum (588 kcal. per cup), NutriSource Super Performance (529 kcal. per cup), Timberwolf Organics (I believe all the grain-free formulas are over 500 kcal. per cup).

Good luck!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[theBCnut]

Forti Flora has very few strains of different probiotics and when you need to get yeast under control, using as many strains as possible is better. Swansons has a really good probiotic called Dr. Langers and it has a really nice price tag too. You pay a lot more when it is marketed to pets, but human probiotics are good for pets too.

Carbs in the diet feed yeast so getting your dog on a low carb diet is important, but you may need to switch over a month or so instead of the usual week or so. I highly recommend Brothers Complete for dogs with yeast problems. Their foods were specifically designed for dogs with these types of problems.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ashylynn –

I suggest putting them both on a high quality grain-free diet – raw is best if you’re willing. There’s no reason two different dogs can’t eat the same food, all dogs (aside from those with serious medical issues) have the same basic nutritional requirements and will generally thrive on a high protein, low carbohydrate diet. The only thing that will differ between the two dogs is their energy requirement (portion size). Your mastiff pup will need more calories and thus require larger portions and your chi will require less calories and thus need smaller portions. I have a 110 lb. 8 year old, a 68 lb. 2 year old and a 75 lb. 10 month old – they all eat the exact same thing.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[pugmomsandy]

My foster dogs and mine have lost weight on grain free foods like Blue Buffalo Wilderness, Horizon Amicus, Wellness Core and Brothers Complete over the years and not the “diet” ones, just regular recipes. Recently my very obese foster lost 10 lbs on a grain free canned food/raw food combo diet – very low in carbs. My group only poops twice a day. Now they will poop during a walk or at the dog park just because they gotta leave one of theirs when they smell someone else’s and it’s usually not as formed because it’s usually not the time for them to go normally.

[Worrier]

Have been feeding my diabetic dog EVO weight management “lowest carbohydate” dry food for 3 years. Her insulin dosage is stable based on her stringent diet. When the EVO was recalled in March, I managed to keep her fed because of the kindness of my retailer who gave me all of the samples they had that did not have the recalled lot numbers. The day I ran out of food, I found another retailer some distance away who had pulled all the recalled EVO and said he had received the new supply of EVO weight management in the 28 pound size. I drove the distance, paid a hefty amount for the food and rejoiced that I had my dog’s regular food (I mix some shredded boneless skinless chicken breast that I bake on the kibble for some flavoring). I felt confident that her levels would remain stable. Well this evening I got the dog advisor alert that the recall had been expanded. Does this apply to the EVO that has just been redistributed to the retailers? I have fed my dog from this bag three times already. Thanks for your help.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Ken –

I’m so sorry to hear about your dog!

You’re going to want to get him on a high protein, low carbohydrate diet – a fresh, natural diet is ideal. Glucose (found in carbohydrates) acts as food for tumors – so the more carbohydrates in the diet, the more fuel there is for the tumor to grow. High levels of high quality (animal based) protein should be included in each meal. The tumor competes with the dog’s body for amino acids – so higher levels of complete proteins will help to ensure the dog’s body receives adequate levels of amino acids.

Some supplements that may be beneficial for certain types of cancer:
-Turmeric
-Bromelain
-Medicinal Mushrooms
-Amino Acid Supplements (particularly arginine and glutamine)
-Omega 3’s

These website have some great information:

dogaware.com/health/cancer.html

k9medicinals.com/dog-cancer-diet

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone,

I am using nutritiondata.self.com to find out exactly what nutrients are in my homemade dog food, but does anyone know how to calculate the percentage of carbs/fat/protein in homemade food? Since I don’t know the dry matter basis, I’m not sure how. I tried dividing the total # of grams by the grams of protein, but the result seemed absurdly low, and of course I don’t know the moisture content of the food. That website does show the “caloric ratio” of the recipe though, the percentage of calories from fat/carbs/protein.

I would appreciate any advice on calculating the percent of carbs, fat, and protein in homemade food!

Thank you,

Heath

[Hound Dog Mom]

Typically detox occurs when switching to a higher quality food – such as when switching from kibble (high carb, not species-appropriate) to balanced raw (low carb, species-appropriate).

[soho]

If I could suggest just one resource for anyone interested in learning the ABC’s and XYZ’s of Diabetes it would be this book by Dr Richard K Bernstein:

“Dr. Bernstein’s Diabetes Solution: The Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars.”
It is available on Amazon in hardcover and Kindle e-book editions.

The title is a little misleading as there is no cure for Diabetes. But don’t worry you will learn more about Diabetes then you ever imagined by reading this book. Dr Bernstein was an Engineer who was dissatisfied with the state of Diabetes management when he became diabetic about 65 years ago. He developed what was at the time the revolutionary concept of LOW CARBOHYDRATE CONSUMPTION. Dr B then became a doctor so he could better share his methods for managing diabetes with the rest of the world. Dr B has the blood sugar of a non-diabetic and you cannot tell he is a diabetic through blood tests!

This book applies to human diabetics but the major issues are the same for humans and canines. In both species diabetes is characterized by a breakdown (autoimmune or otherwise) of the body’s ability to produce insulin. And in both humans and canines insulin is the hormone responsible for assimilating sugars into the cells.

[MindyH]

I admit to being rather unhealthy in my own diet, therefor when our lab suffered food allergies and everyone was recommending probiotics I was at a loss. For this reason I visited numerous sites similar to DOG FOOD ADVISOR. I basically read reviews and comments of dog owners giving advice. I found a family experiencing the identical conditions our 8 year old lab was dealing with and followed their instructions to a T, luckily they where nice enough to respond to my comment with a detailed post. I try and share the 2 basic areas when I see it may be helpful. The first is use a supplement that contains the enzymes Aspergillus oryzae and, Aspergillus niger, ( I use the VitaHound dog supplement) but I have friends using other brands that contain the enzymes and they work the same. Second Feed a home prep diet of 50% of vegetables, 40% of meats and 10% of carbohydrates using three basic sources eg. chicken, rice, carrots. After 30 days, continue with dog supplement and discontinue the home made feedings to a quality dog food. BEST OF LUCK, our dog is allergy free, happy and healthy and I have read many thank yous over the years for passing on the wisdom.

[Rambo and Fancy]

Thanks for the info. At least the first ingredient isn’t corn although it is brewers rice. From Hill’s website:
“Brewers Rice, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Egg Product, Soybean Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Flaxseed, Pork Protein Isolate, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Lactic Acid, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Dried Beet Pulp, Calcium Carbonate, Glycerol Monostearate, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Menadione Dimethylpyrimidinol Bisulfite (source of vitamin K)), Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, L-Arginine, Taurine, DL-Methionine, minerals (Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine, L-Tryptophan, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols & Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.”

I’m gonna have to do more research on the subject.

[BryanV21]

One other thing… feeding the right food is just as important, because the calories that your dog gets still need to provide him/her with the proper nutrients. If you’re feeding a low quality food, and cutting back on the calories, your pup may not be getting all it needs to from the food. I recommend grain-free foods that are high in animal-based protein (aka “meat”) and low in carbs (fruits and veggies). Your dog will get more out of that type of food than a one with a high carb content, ensuring that your dog loses weight without losing out somewhere else.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi jlake88 –

No one can really tell you for sure if the calorie count is too low to too high because calorie requirements can vary drastically from dog to dog based on factors such as the obvious size and activity level, but also lean body mass, stress level, age, whether or not the dog is spayed or neutered, environment, breed, etc. For example, I have a 110 lb. unaltered 7 yo. male and a 8 mo. 70 lb. altered female that are both currently eating 2,500 kcal. per day and then I have a 2 yo. 68 lb. altered female that is eating 2,700 kcal. per day. All three are the same breed, kept in the same conditions and have roughly the same activity level. It would seem that my large unaltered male or my growing pup would need more calories than my spayed adult, but that’s not the case – I recently had to bump her intake up because she started to lose weight she didn’t need to be losing.

What you need to do is closely monitor your dog’s weight. If he starts dropping pounds really quickly – feed him more. If he’s not losing at all – feed him less. I’d say that he should lose no more than 1 – 2 lbs. per week, if he’s losing more than that it’s too quick. A good general recommendation is to feed him the amount recommended on the bag for what he should weight – not what he does weigh (although that’s just a guideline).

Another thing to look into – although I understand it can be a little pricey for large dogs – is a dehydrated or canned food. Not only are dehydrated and canned foods healthier than dry foods (more protein, more moisture, less processed, less carbs), but (due to high moisture content) they are much less calorie-dense so your dog can eat a higher volume of food. I think they’re great for weight loss. For example – on average most kibbles have roughly 400 kcal. per cup; most dehydrated foods have around 500 kcal. per cup but they are re-hydrated with around 1 1/2 C. water bringing that calorie count to 500 kcal. per 2 1/2 C. or 200 kcal. per C.; most canned foods have around 400 kcal. per standard 13.2 oz. can which equates to about 250 kcal. per C. Just some options to consider!

Remember, ultimately, weight loss is about calories in and calories out. If he’s consuming more calories than he’s burning he will not lose weight no matter how little it seems like he’s eating and if he’s burning more calories than he’s consuming he will lose weight. If he’s not losing he’s eating too many calories and intake needs to be decreased and/or exercise needs to be increased.

Good luck! 🙂

[JenRose]

I have been battling megaespophagus with my adopted Lab Annabelle since November 2011. I am looking to make a change to her diet (Innova EVO Turkey and Chicken) because research has shown a high fat/protein diet can aggravate megaE…apparently fat is harder to digest and stays in the stomach longer making it easier to regurge. Too high protein can cause ulcers or lesions in the esophagus. The only problem is I need to get her weight up and with low bulk as she cannot take lots of food per day, even when divided into small feedings. She has been on grain free but I think I will have to add carbs to get calories without as much fat and protein and that is ok.

Any ideas on a good quality higher carb, low fat, low protein canned food??

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi texasniteowl –

You may want to get your boy on some supplements that will help his allergies – quercitin, nettle, burdock root and perilla leaf, omega 3’s, bromelain, papain and coconut oil are all supplements shown to help ease allergy symptoms. Aunt Jeni’s sells a supplement called “Enhance Allergy Aid” with vitamin c, burdock root, quercitin and biotin. Vet’s Best sells a supplement called “Seasonal Allergy Support” with bioflavinoids, nettle leaf, vitamin c, perilla leaf and quercitin. You may want to consider purchasing one of these or a similar supplement and giving him some fish oil and coconut oil daily.

If your he is indeed allergic to your grass you should bathe him frequently in an herbal shampoo (avoid oatmeal-based shampoos) and have a foot soak ready to use after he’s been outdoors (you can make a solution using 1 gal. water, 1 c. hydrogen peroxide and 1-4 c. white vinegar or you can mix povidone iodine with water). Soak his feet every time he comes indoors so he’s not tracking the allergen through your house and vacuum frequently.

You should make sure his food is low in carbohydrates as high carbohydrate diets are “pro-inflammatory” and can worsen allergy symptoms. Your best bet, as Patty mentioned, would be a balanced raw diet. If that’s not possible a high protein canned or dehydrated food would be the next best option. If you must feed kibble keep it high protein. My top picks for kibble would be Orijen (38-40% protein), Nature’s Variety Instinct (35 – 42% protein), EVO (42-52% protein), Solid Gold’s Barking at the Moon (41% protein), Artemis Maximal (42% protein) Earthborn Primitive Natural (38% protein) or Wysong Epigen (60% protein). If you can at least top the kibble with balanced raw or a high quality canned or dehydrated food, this would be better than kibble alone.

Supplementing with probiotics is known to help allergies as well. I would recommend adding a high quality multi-strain probiotic to the food such as Mercola Probiotics, Garden of Life Primal Defense, Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS or Swanson’s Soil-Based Organisms. Probiotics may help firm up his stool as well. Some other ideas to help firm him up would be adding a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each meal and supplementing with digestive enzymes.

Remember it may take several weeks for things to clear up. Good luck!

[theBCnut]

Try finding a food that is grain free, potato free and pretty low in carbs. My favorite kibble is Brothers Complete Allergy Formula. It is pretty pricey, but it really worked for my dog with issues like yours. It has to be ordered from their website unless you live in Ft. Lauderdale, FL

After all of the Brothers Complete formulas, I think my next choice would be Orijen or even Wysong Epigen.

High quality canned or raw are even better, but somewhat cost prohibitive in a large dog.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I don’t have dobermans, but I have “large active dogs” (3 bloodhounds). I’ve found they do best on a high protein, moderate/high fat, low carb raw diet without grains or starches. Their meals average around 50% protein and 35% fat. They seem to maintain their weight better with higher fat levels.

[glsharp]

the vet gave me a link to an online calculator and said i want the following result after i put in the percentages: the percentages are crude protein, min % ——-crude fat, min%———-moisture, max %———-fiber, max %———–and ash, max% whatever that is. They gave me the hills prescription diet i/d low fat food. she told me when i did the calculations thru this calculator i need to get 24% protein, 19% fat and 56% carb… i am having a terrible struggle with this. like i said previously i would like a food within this range that i can give to everyone…i have chosen several with the lower % of fat, but when i calculate the other factors, my results are too high ???

[korkey541]

My little rescue Chihuahua has a pretty bad case of congestive heart disease and is on the fluid retention meds along with heart meds. We have to watch out for the junk in dog foods because they make him retain too much fluid and make it hard to breathe. I really need to find a low carb food for him and since this is not listed on the can (like for human) I don’t know what to look for. I know he needs the green veggies and protein. Can anyone make a recommendation? It really needs to be a low calorie food, too. He is overweight. Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

abby13 –

All oil has the same amount of fat and all is high in fat – oil is pure fat. 1 tsp. of krill oil has the same amount of fat as 1 tsp. salmon oil. I’m not sure what the fat levels are in the foods you’re feeding but if you’re keeping fat levels low this could be a big reason why she has dry skin. Fat is necessary for healthy skin and coat (in addition to many other things). If she has dry skin I would keep her on a food with at least 15% fat. Supplementing with fish or krill oil would be a good idea too – I’m not sure how big she is, but I posted a dosage chart above. Coconut oil is another fat that is known to help improve skin and coat quality. Remember, dogs have no dietary requirement for carbohydrates and can thrive on protein and fat alone – dogs utilize fat for energy and can tolerate much higher fat levels than people. I’m not sure if you bathe her, but if she has dry skin I’d also watch the number of baths you give. If you bathe her too frequently that can dry the skin. When you do bathe her, make sure to use a moisturizing shampoo and conditioner. Daily brushing can also help to distribute the oils in the fur and help moisturize the skin.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi tracyx –

You should rotate foods and you should add fresh or canned toppers to dry food. Feeding the same food day after day is very unhealthy, all living things need variety. Switching will strengthen your dog’s digestive system. Another benefit of switching foods frequently is that if there is an issue with a food like an ingredient change and it doesn’t work for your dog, you’ll have lots of other go to options and if there is an issue such as recall due to contamination, your dog will be less likely to be affected if you don’t keep him on any one food for an extended period of time (often times the contaminants are in trace amounts and take months of feeding to build up to a toxic level). Dry food is the worst thing a dog can be fed, it’s not species-appropriate (it’s low in moisture and higher in carbs and protein than fresh meat based foods and canned foods). For this reason it’s a good idea to always top dry food with some quality canned food, a commercial frozen or freeze-dried raw food (rehydrated) or fresh cooked or raw meat. My three dogs eat a homemade raw diet and get something different at each meal. Prior to feeding raw I rotate kibble brands at the end of each bag (about every three weeks) and rotated canned toppers daily (I also added things like raw eggs, tinned sardines, plain yogurt, healthy table scraps, etc.). I know rotating hasn’t made my dogs picky, they’d gladly eat the same food day after day but I would never allow that. I do have hounds though – if you have a more picky dog topping with fresh or canned could make them picky towards just dry. I wouldn’t let the possibility of your dog being “picky,” however, deter you from feeding a healthier more species-appropriate diet. I personally feel that feeding a dog only dry food and feeding the same food continuously is one of the most unhealthy things an owner can do for their animal.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yes, it does contain corn.

Royal Canin Yorkshire Terrier 28 Formula

Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Brewers Rice, Brown Rice, Chicken Fat, Chicken, Corn Gluten Meal, Dried Egg Powder, Barley, Natural Chicken Flavor, Cellulose, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Anchovy Oil, Dried Brewers Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Soya Oil, Fructo-oligosaccharides, Salmon Meal, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Choline Chloride, Dried Brewers Yeast Extract (source of Mannan-oligosaccharides) , Taurine*, Vitamins [DL-Alpha Tocopherol (source of Vitamin E), Inositol, Niacin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C*), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement], Magnesium Oxide, Borage Oil, Trace Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate], Glucosamine Hydrochloride*, L-Carnitine*, DL-Methionine, Marigold Extract (Calendula officinalis L.), Tea (Green Tea Extract), Chondroitin Sulfate*, preserved with Natural Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Citric Acid and Rosemary Extract

Brewer’s Rice: Leftover debris from human-food production, no nutritional value.

Corn Gluten Meal: 85% of corn in the US is genetically modified, according to the NCAP corn gluten meal is “a by-product of processing corn to make corn starch and corn syrup.”; gluten is cheap and of low bioavailability and used to falsely boost the protein content of a food; corn is also highly susceptible to aflatoxin contamination.

Natural Chicken Flavor: Source of MSG

Dried Beet Pulp: 95% of sugar beets grown in the US are Monsanto’s genetically-modified variety.

Dried Brewer’s Yeast: Potential source of MSG.

Soya Oil: 93% of soy is genetically modified.

And look at that huge long list of synthetic vitamins and minerals at the end – they need to add all those because the main ingredients are of little to no nutritional value.

If you can afford this, you can afford much better for your dog. You’re paying a premium price for a mediocre food.

[msbabbit]

/choosing-dog-food/dog-food-carbohydrate-content/
Missing from Every Dog Food Label
Carbohydrate content has actually been deliberately omitted from the dog food’s nutrition label.
If feeding your dog a low carbohydrate diet happens to be your goal… and you’re looking for that information on a dog food package… you’re simply out of luck.
But there’s good news.
In less than a minute… you can quickly uncover the hidden percentage of carbohydrates… in virtually any dog food.
Here’s how…
How to Quickly Calculate the
Carbohydrate Content of Any Dog Food
Basically, the bulk of all dog foods consist of four major nutrients…
Proteins
Fats
Carbohydrates
Moisture (water)
In addition, all these products include something called ash. Ash is the non-combustible mineral residue that’s left over after burning away all the protein, fats and carbohydrates.
Ash content usually measures about five to eight percent of each finished product1 . So, I routinely allow about 8 percent as a benchmark for this important variable.
Together, the protein, fat, ash, carbohydrate and water content must account for roughly 100 percent of the total pre-cooking weight of any dog food.
OK. Now, some simple math…

[Anonymous]

I am by no means a canine nutritionist, merely someone who has put a bit of thought into what I feed mine. My knowledge is not specific to the medical condition and sensitivity of your dog. The guidelines that I found with a superficial online search for cardiac diet were:
– Provide your pet a high-quality natural meat-based diet with at least 25-30% protein (DM basis)
– Make sure your pet LIKES the food so that (s)he consumes enough calories to maintain BMI
– Mild to moderate sodium restriction (severe restriction in advanced cases)
– Supplements: omega 3 fatty acids, taurine, carnitine, B vitamins and Magnesium.
http://www.1800petmeds.com/education/diet-tips-pet-heart-disease-32.htm

I am going to assume that you are looking for a dry kibble based on your previous food choice. I feel that the top of the line dry kibble RIGHT NOW is Orijen. However, it does retail for $80/35lb. As I feed about 400 lb of dog, the budgetary compromise at my house is Merrick Grain Free at roughly $50/35lb.

Prior to Merrick Grain Free, I was feeding Taste of the Wild, but have decided that I prefer Merrick for not entirely nutrition-based reasons. While the protein content is slightly higher and the starch from sweet potato (rather than white), they are reasonably equivalent foods (in nutrition and price). However, Merrick uses all US-sourced ingredients (nothing from China). This is a political issue and safety concern of mine. The larger scale pet recall in 2007 due to melamine contamination was traced to Chinese product, and the more recent Petco recall of stainless steel bowls manufactured with radioactive Cobalt-60 scrap was most likely (while never publicly disclosed) of Chinese origin. Merrick also happens to be manufactured in Texas, where I live. Those variables may not factor into your decision at all, but are important to me.

I could not find a cardiac specific diet offered by Hill’s in their Science Diet or Prescription Diet lines and based my quick comparison on the Adult Advanced Fitness formula. The Advanced Mobility contained more Omega 3’s and Magnesium, but was lower in protein and higher in sodium. Orijen appears to be the best choice, but may not be an option for you dependent on your personal budget. Merrick Grain Free is my compromise, but is based on a few tertiary considerations that may not matter to you. I will be interested to hear what other posters have to contribute. (The following information was retrieved from those companies’ official website product pages and is as vague or detailed as they provided.) The summary comparison is this:

Hill’s Merrick Orijen
Protein 24.2 38 38
Fat 16.4 17 17
Carbohydrate 51.5 ? 25
Sodium 0.32 ? 0.4
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.67 0.4 1.1
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.33 4.8 3.0
Taurine (yes) ? 0.35
Carnitine ? ? ?
B Vitamins
B1 – Thiamine (yes) (yes) 0.9 mg/kg or 50 mg/kg?
B2 – Riboflavin ? (yes) 45 mg/kg
B3 – Niacin (yes) (yes) 450 mg/kg
B5 – Pantothenic Acid ? (yes) 50 mg/kg
B6 – Pyridoxine ? (yes) 38 mg/kg
B7 – Biotin ? (yes) 1 mg/kg
B9 – Folic Acid (yes) (yes) 5.2 mg/kg
B12 – Cobalamins (yes) (yes) 50 mg/kg
Magnesium 0.099 ? 0.1

Since the foods that I mentioned are simply those that I am familiar with and not anything that I originally researched with cardiac issues in mind, I would recommend that you use this as a springboard for your own research. Maybe there is a better option in Innova EVO, Artemis, etc. Finish out a chart similar to that above on each of the brands that this website lists as top-tier choices. Feel free to call companies like Merrick or Hill’s to ask about specific quantities of items on their ingredients list, but not in their analysis (like B vitamins).

You might also want to consult with a veterinarian that specializes in cardiac issues regarding dietary recommendations and possible supplements. Maybe it is more cost-effective or bioavailable to top-dress your pets dinner with certain vitamins (L-carnitine perhaps). As wonderful as your veterinarian my be, my experience is that the time constraints of their day-to-day rigamarole does not allow time for general practitioners to be current and thorough on more specific issues. Reading journal articles falls to the wayside. Specialist consultation and personal research are important any time you have a specific veterinary/medical diagnosis of concern. Your vet has to have a working knowledge of EVERYTHING. You can concentrate on the single issue that is of prominent importance for your pet.

Good Luck

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi clea11 –

(sorry if this post shows up twice, my first disappeared)

I wouldn’t feed Solid Gold Holistique Blends to a diabetic dog (or any dog for that matter) it’s WAY too high in carbohydrates and very low in protein. You want a high protein/low glycemic food. If you check out the thread titled “Diet and Diabetes” in the Diet and Health issues topic area James Bailey has posted a lot of great suggestions of appropriate foods for diabetic dogs.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi clea11 –

I wouldn’t feed Solid Gold Holistique Blends to a diabetic dog (or any dog for that matter) – it’s WAY to high in carbohydrates and very low in protein. If you check out the “Diet and Diabetes” topic James Bailey has a lot of great food suggestions for diabetic dogs: /forums/topic/diet-and-diabetes/ – you want something low in carbohydrates and low glycemic.

[soho]

Hi lovelibby,

Hyperlipidemia can be caused by badly controlled Diabetes. It can also be caused by other things.
The first thing I would do if I were you is try to tightly control my dog’s diabetes.

I would fast him or her for 24 hours while I figured out what dose of long acting insulin such as Lantus, Ultralente or Levemir controlled his basal levels of glucose. The basal level of glucose is what the liver constantly produces throughout the day and has nothing to do with meals. You might have to do the fast more than once (with plenty of days in between) until you calculate the correct dosage of long acting insulin. Then you can calculate the mealtime dose of rapid acting insulin such as Novolog, Humalog or Apidra. You would start with a very low dose and slowly increase the dosage until you find the dose of rapid acting insulin that adequately controls the glucose from your dog’s meals.

The beauty of a two insulin regimen is your dogs meals are not tied to any particular time of day and can vary in size. You can give the dose of rapid acting insulin immediately after a meal this way you give the correct dose of insulin for the amount of food your dog actually eats with no worries if he doesn’t finish his whole meal.

You must test your dog’s blood glucose levels a lot in the beginning while you figure everything out!!! I would test upon arising, right before meals, 2 hours after each meal and at bedtime.

The regimen I outlined is not a simple one but it can be done with the help of the right healthcare professional and I believe it pays off in the long run with a happier and healthier dog.

I would never feed my dog Hills W/D. Here are the ingredients:

Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Mill Run, Chicken, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, Lactic Acid, Caramel (color), Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Flaxseed, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C) , Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Calcium Carbonate, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, L-Carnitine, Iodized Salt, Mixed Tocopherols added to retain freshness, Citric Acid added to retain freshness, L-Threonine, Beta-Carotene, Phosphoric Acid, Rosemary Extract.

Dog’s with diabetes are still dogs. They still need a lot of protein. Fat should vary with the individual dog’s health, issues, diseases, etc. The hills W/D diet in my opinion is not fit for any dog to eat. While hills tries to focus on the dog’s diabetes , they completely fail to meet the nutritional needs of ANY canine. Hills addresses the dogs diabetes with high fiber (29.5%), high carbohydrates (51%) , low fat (8.7%) and low protein (18.7%).

As far as diet goes I discuss this in earlier posts in this topic.

[suztzu]

I really want to go grain free with my 9yr old shih tzu Leo but I am having a problem finding a “middle” of the road type food I did try Wellness core reg he immedietly gained a pound even though he was only eating a 1/4 cup twice a day so I switched to the low fat. It was too low in fat even with supplemental canned food his skin got itchy and started thinning out the kibble was just too large he was throwing it up. He would throw up California Natural too, anything that has a larger kibble size it a no go. I switched to Natures Variety Prarie Chicken and brown rice and his weight has been stable for a long time now and he looks great. So it seems like anything over 16% fat is bad and anything aroung or under 10% is bad NV Instinct is 22% which is too high. I do worry about long term health risks of using a grain based kibble, I do have him on coconut oil supplement for his skin and coat, cant do fish oil it soaks into his beard and you cant get near him he stinks like dead fish LOL Maybe I should just switch him over to canned but its so expensive. Any ideas on a good kibble low carb good protein middle of the road fat would be helpful. Ive been looking at all the reviews but my mind is reeling, too many choices and what about Dehydrated UGH I dont know.

[BryanV21]

Dump the Ol’ Roy. Corn is it’s main ingredient and corn is high on the glycemic index, meaning it can raise your dog’s blood sugar levels, which I’m sure you know is not good for a diabetic dog. Besides that there’s not a single ingredient in Ol Roy that makes me say “well that’s a good one”.

A popular dry food we recommend is Solid Gold Holistique Blendz, as it’s low protein/low fat food that isn’t full of corn, soy, by-product, or generically named meats/meals.

Some people believe that even a diabetic dog should have a high QUALITY protein diet, that is also low in carbs, but I’ll let our raw food feeders cover the benefits of that one since I’m not as familiar with the subject.

[anniebug]

i have had my over weight dog on acana light & fit and she did good on it the only problem im having is it seems to be really had to find near me so i am thinking about switching to something new but not to sure what, i have been cutting down her food & replacing it with canned pumpkin which helps with weight loss & makes your dog feel full (being a lab she thinks she is always staving!) & fruits & veggies that seems to be working slowly. how do you find out how many carbs are in the food i cant seem to find it on the bag

[anniebug]

How do I know which foods are low carbs? I can’t seem to find it on the bag

[clea11]

What about a diabetic dog??? My Clea has been diabetic for about 3 years. She is a very fiancee eater. I have tried the best!!!! I started boiling chicken, rice, green beans…Along with little Ol”Roy…She is on Novolin 3 cc’s in morning after she eats and same at dinner time. Recently when i took her into the vet…Her glucose level was 520!!!!!! Ekkkkkkk…..He filled her with some fluids…..She was also vomiting……..She would not eat…….As of Feb 16th…..She ate breakfast….2 containers of little Ol’ Roy…grilled chicken flavor….Tried to add some boiled chicken..but she spit that out…..Wondering….if this particular dog food is appropriate to give to a diabetic dog…….I have asked the vet….And he said low carb’s…….low fat…….However, when i tried the more expensive food……She didn’t want anything to do with it……….Very confused, and Very worried at this point….She is 13 yrs. old…. Thank You…..Lorry.

[BryanV21]

If you fed BB Life Protection formulas, then it could be the higher protein in the Taste of the Wild. Not that TOW is a low carb food, but it is a bit less than BB.

I’m in no way saying you should switch back, as dogs should be on a high protein/low carb/no grain diet IMO. Just sounds like you have a hyper dog. LOL, sorry

[DoggieDoc22]

“There is also such a thing as consumers fooled by marketing tactics”

It’s funny that you mention that because that’s exactly the way to describe people like yourself, backyardwolf, and BryanV21. Who exactly is it that you ever hear bashing corn, wheat, soy, etc? Let me guess, Blue Buffalo commercials, Wellness commercials, etc. There is absolutely zero research out there that shows that any of the ingredients you list are harmful or of lower quality in any way than potatoes for instance (since that is the carb of choice in Natural Balance since that brand was mentioned in a prior post). The whole “grain-free”/anti-corn kick that has been going around lately is nothing but marketing spin by pet food manufacturers.

The reason is simple, humans, dogs, cats, gorillas, whatever animal you choose to speak of don’t need ingredients. They don’t consume food to fulfill a need for any particular food. They need nutrients. You could put together the most expensive pile of ingredients you could find, mix them all together and feed them to your dog. If they don’t meet your pets nutritional requirements then you just fed them a crap food.

I think a lot of you would benefit greatly from listening to someone other than the Blue Buffalo or Orijen rep at your local pet store and look at the science. Some companies actually spend money researching what is best for your pet and conducting feeding trials to make sure the animals they are intending to feed thrive on their diets. Believe it or not, you can find some actual research based information on the internet, rather than the usual baseless spin put out there by manufacturers. For your own benefit, here is a good place to start: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/nutrition/faq/general_pet_nutrition.html

You might find this section in particular quite enlightening:

“Is the ingredient list a good way to determine the quality of a pet food?

Although ingredient lists are commonly used by lay people to determine the quality of pet foods, this approach has many pitfalls and is very subjective to intentional manipulation by the food manufacturers. Ingredients are listed on labels in order of weight, including water, so ingredients with high water content (like fresh meats and vegetables) are going to be listed higher than similar amounts of dry ingredients even though they may contribute fewer nutrients to the overall diet. Additionally, ingredients from the same source (such as chicken meat, chicken fat, chicken by-product meal) can be split into component parts, further complicating assessment.

Pets require nutrients, not ingredients; a diet full of great sounding ingredients can be less nutritious than a diet containing less appealing (to people) ingredients.”

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi jnite –

I wouldn’t feed this food for a few reasons…

1) Supposedly this food contains nothing but meat and bone (with added vitamins and minerals). Therefore, it should have a very high protein content, moderate fat content and extremely low carbohydrate content. When I convert the guaranteed analysis to a dry matter basis I get that the min. protein is 29% and the min. fat is 26% (very very low protein for a food that is supposedly all meat). Assuming that the ash content is 8%, if I calculate the carbohydrate content (using the dry matter percentages: 100% – 29% protein – 26% fat – 8% ash) it comes up to 37%. Well there are no ingredients in the food that contain carbohydrates so there’s no way the food can be 37% carbohydrates (they actually state on their website “zero carbs”). So how can this be? How can a food with “zero carbs” be so low in protein? This leads me to believe the actual fat content is MUCH higher than the stated min. of 26% (and this is where that extra 37% of “assumed” carbohydrates is coming from). When you run into a situation like this where the fat content is so high, the company is likely using low quality fatty cuts of meat. The reason I say the missing percentages should be attributed to excess fat is because if it were coming from protein, the company would want to advertise that and would state a higher min. for the protein percentage.

2) The food contains menadione.

3) I personally wouldn’t feed a pasteurized “raw” food.

[Hound Dog Mom]

DoggieDoc22 –

“One last thing, don’t buy into the marketing machine and get all hung up on ingredients. Your dog needs nutrients, not ingredients. Its protein, fat, and carbohydrate levels that are important, not corn, soy, potato, etc.”

Question, if a new meal replacement bar came onto the market for humans that contained all the essential vitamins, minerals and amino acids (synthetically added) a human needs plus adequate levels of protein, fat and carbohydrates and the main ingredients were refined grains, high fructose corn syrup and partially-hydrogenated oil would you quit eating real food and eat this for every meal? I mean it contains the necessary “nutrients”, right? Hopefully that analogy makes you understand how ridiculous your statement is.

Ingredients matter. As I told you on another thread – you can’t put ground chuck into recipe and get filet mignon in the end. Garbage is garbage. Yes, all living things need nutrients but these nutrients (or at least the majority of these nutrients) should be derived from fresh, whole, species-appropriate foods. I’ll give you some food (no pun intended) for thought.

1) Many health organizations (including the U.S. Cancer Institute and the United Kingdom Health Department) advise humans to get their nutrients from whole foods and not synthetic supplements (shouldn’t our pets do the same?). When dealing with synthetic nutrients, the chance for overdose is much higher – chance of overdose is minimal when consuming whole foods. Errors in compounding synthetic concoctions happen and pets die – for example the excess vitamin d recall. You don’t have to worry about there “accidentally” being too much vitamin d when the vitamin d source is real, whole foods.

2) You say that the inclusion of ingredients such as “corn, soy and potato” are inconsequential – what matters it the “guaranteed analysis” of the end result. So a mixture of corn, soy and potato is perfectly fine as long as the protein, fat and carbohydrate levels are where they need to be and the food is pumped up with artificial nutrients to account for the lack of nutrients in the ingredients themselves, right? Well let’s examine these ingredients that you say are fine to feed:

-Soy: contains anti-nutrients which hinder the ability of digestive enzymes needed for proper digestion; contains phytates which limit the body’s ability to absorb key nutrients such as zinc, magnesium and calcium; loaded with isoflavones that disrupt endocrine function and have been linked to infertility and breast cancer (in humans); contains goitrogens which block the synthesis of thyroid hormones; most soy is genetically modified (studies in animals have linked consumption of GMO ingredients to negative hepatic, pancreatic, renal and reproductive side effects that may alter the hematological, biochemical and immunologic parameters).
-Corn: contains lectins, has a high glycemic index, one of the most genetically modified crops (see above), highly susceptible to aflatoxin contamination.
-Potatoes: also commonly genetically modified (see above), high glycemic index, contain lectins, can contain the toxin solanine.

3) Most of the low-grade foods that contain corn, soy and the like also contain animal by-products. Are animal by-products inherently bad? No – my dogs love fresh organ meat, chicken feet, beef tracheas, etc. (from animals slaughtered for human consumption) and I love allowing them to eat fresh, quality by-products. However fresh quality by-products are not what is in pet food. Many grocery store quality brands of dog food have tested positive for pentobarbital – this means that the by-products contain euthanized animals (potentially even dogs and cats). Pento is recognized as a serious danger to wildlife. Wildlife that feed on disposed euthanized animals often die of pento poisoning – so is this a safe ingredient to be feeding to our beloved pets? I think not. Also – most by-product meals, while undoubtedly high in protein, contain very low quality protein derived from feathers, beaks and the like. This protein is poorly digested and puts a strain on the animals kidneys over time (unlike high quality, digestible protein derived from fresh meat).

Your view of pet food ingredients is simplistic, to say the least. It’s necessary to look at the bigger picture, food isn’t as simple as “fat, protein and carbohydrates.”

[DoggieDoc22]

The thing that you have to keep in mind is that you should only be using these reviews as a guide, not as gospel. Basically all of the reviews are based upon reading the information that can be found on the packaging, and writing review about that. All of that information can be drastically skewed by dog food manufacturers. For example, ingredients are listed on the ingredient deck in order of weight, including water. So an ingredient such as whole chicken (which contains a lot of water weight), is going to show up higher on an ingredient deck than chicken meal, even though there may be a larger volume of chicken meal in the diet. Also, some manufacturers will use several different types of carbohydrates in their diets, rather than using just one to alter the ingredient deck. This can be done intentionally to prevent any individual source of carbs from appearing high on the ingredient deck.

One other important aspect to keep in mind is whether a company manufactures their own foods, conducts feeding trials, or researches the diets they come out with. Blue Buffalo is a huge culprit of this. They have a 5 star rating on DFA because their diets are high in protein and grain free (traits which DFA seems to value highly). However, what you don’t see is that all of their diets are produced at copacking facilities which can lead to inconsistency in quality, the inability to control the quality of the ingredients that are actually used to manufacture the food, and exposure to contaminants (ie the Diamond recall early last year). Also, DFA doesn’t mention that Blue Buffalo does not conduct feeding trials, or do any type of research on their diets. These facts should lead to a lower rating for a food like Blue Buffalo, but are simply overlooked by dogfoodadvisor.

One last thing, don’t buy into the marketing machine and get all hung up on ingredients. Your dog needs nutrients, not ingredients. Its protein, fat, and carbohydrate levels that are important, not corn, soy, potato, etc.

[billhill]

Having witnessed quite a few dietary trends in my years, I offer only the advice to keep an open mind. As Dr. Mike says elsewhere on this blog,we have to be careful not to fall into “nutrition-ism.” I would define nutrition-ism as allowing feelings from other segments of life to overly influence how we view nutritional information. Just one example of that would be to insist that dogs should have a vegetarian diet. (Nope, sounds silly to me!)

I’d like to respectfully suggest that having SOME carbohydrates in your dog’s’ diets is not advocating for a high carbohydrate diet. Further, vegetables have starches in them so we’re not just talking about grain Generalizing about all dogs is not helpful when each of us has one or more specific dogs, i.e. real individuals. We humans have different digestive and dietary experiences, right???? I know what my dogs can and cannot digest, and will continue to vary their diets to get them the nutrition they need. I don’t give my dogs grains in significant amounts, but their kibble does have carbs from sweet potatoes. And lots of vitamin A!!

I’ve met several dog owners who feed kibble to one dog and raw to another, based on real individual experience with each critter. Let’s continue to love one another and our dogs, and not get tensed up about dietary concepts.

Pax vobicsum from Richmond, Va, Y’all!

Bill

[soho]

Thank you HDM

Artemis maximal has lab values for the food and the carbs are 17.8% on a DMB. Here’s the link for the Artemis maximal:

http://www.artemiscompany.com/analysis_maximal_dog.html

NV Instinct chicken has the same numbers for protein, fat and moisture on the GA as Artemis Maximal so unless I can get the actual carb content or the actual Protein, fat, ash and moisture content your 18% carb estimate is probably correct. I mean you were only 2 tenths of a percent off on your Artemis maximal estimate!

When I do the math for the two epigens the carb content is 5.5% estimated. I will email Wysong and see if I can get some actual numbers.

Protein 60% (min)
Fat 11% (min)
Fiber 3.5% (max)
Moisture 12% (max)
Ash 8% (estimate)

This list will be constantly updated but for right now it looks like the kibbles with the lowest carb content are in order from low to high:

Wysong Epigen 60 and 90, 11% carbs (DFA estimate)
Natura Evo Turkey & chicken 12%, red meat 15% and herring 18% carbs (NFE)
Artemis Maximal 17.8% carbs (actual)
Natures Variety Instinct Chicken 18% (HDM & my estimate)

Thanks again HDM!

[soho]

Hi Krist

A lot of dogs seem to be on only one type of insulin and it is usually a medium acting insulin which has a slope like a long in distance, short in height hill. This type of insulin makes it pretty impossible to control diabetes well. A dog must eat at the same times each day and the same amount of food at each meal.

In humans the best control of blood sugars is achieved using a very long acting insulin like lantus combined with a short acting insulin like humulin R. The short acting insulin is taken about 30 to 45 minutes before meals and the long acting insulin is taken once or twice daily to cover the glucose that is constantly being produced by the liver.

This type of insulin regimen requires more daily injections but it allows for several things that are not possible with a more simple insulin regimen:

1)Meals can be eaten at any time of day or night.
2)Meals don’t always have to be the same size and contain the exact same amount of carbs.
3)If your dog is sick or not eating you don’t have to freak out because you are worried that your dog will have low blood sugar because they didn’t eat.
4) You can adjust one of the insulins without also increasing or decreasing the size and content of meals.
5) Your dog will have much better control of his/her diabetes.

With the more intense insulin regimen meals and liver metabolism are handled separately allowing for a more effective control of blood glucose.

FOODS

I believe that carbs are the enemy of anything (human, dog or otherwise) that has diabetes. I don’t agree with the Glycemic Research Institute that dry foods such as Nutrisca and Orijen are optimal for a dog with diabetes. Nutrisca has an estimated 36% carbs on a dry matter basis. Orijen has 25% carbs as estimated using the NFE (nitrogen free extract) method (this is extremely reliable). I think either % of carbs is waaay too much for a diabetic dog. If there were several foods with let’s say a carb content below 15% then I would look for the one with the lowest glycemic load. But if one food has 35% carbs and another food has 15% carbs it wouldn’t matter to me what the glycemic load of the first food was, I would choose the food with only 15% carbs!!!!

In dry foods (kibbles) the lowest carb content I have found is EVO which ranges from 12 to 18% carbs depending on the variety and Epigen (Thank you Hound Dog Mom) which has only 11% carbs in either of the 2 formulas.

In wet foods maybe you could just add some fresh meat which is in the same family (red, poultry or fish) that you are feeding at any particular meal. You are guaranteed a much higher quality topper if you add your own rather than a canned food.

Good Luck!!!