[anonymously]

Some information here you may find helpful http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

I have to speak up, as I ended up at the emergency vet with more than 1 dog, 2-3 times for issues related to “raw meaty bones” . GI blockages….even the finely ground up bone can turn into cement in their gut.

[Julia J]

Hello, I’m new to feeding raw. I have a 12 week old German Shepherd. 27 lbs. Recently just switched from kibble to ground raw (60%-80% meat, 30% veg/organ, 10% bone). Should probably start raw meaty bones to increase his calcium & phosphorus intake. I’m quite nervous about it – worried about choking if he doesn’t chew it up thoroughly. Worried that it may get lodged in his intestines etc.. Can anyone suggest a few safest raw meaty bones he can try? I’m considering chicken back, chicken feet/wings, lamb ribs. Should my puppy swallow both the meat & bone? Any advice is much appreciated.

[texasniteowl]

Thanks for all the info. I am reviewing!

jakes mom…raw bones are a no go. Wilson has a rear tooth, molar? that has an enamel defect. my vet says a lot of vets would say to pull it. however he is more conservative and as long as it is not inflamed/infected/abcessed, then he is in favor of leaving it in. so far so good. my vet doesn’t even want me giving Wilson bully sticks, let alone bones.

I will look into the different flavors of toothpaste, or even the coconut oil paste. And I will look into the additives. I know I had heard of some you add to their water daily too. But obviously I hope I get him to accept tooth brushing!

[anonymously]

Just be aware that there are risks involved with bones. Broken teeth, GI blockages…..

[jakes mom]

Don’t start with a brush, start with just putting a finger in his mouth with a bit of the paste, just let him lick it. When he’s ok with that you can try a bit of gauze around your finger and “brush” with that. Work up to the brush, always letting him sniff and lick every new thing you introduce. You may need to try several flavors to find something he likes. I use a paste I make myself with just a bit of baking soda and some coconut oil. Coconut oil is very healthy for a lot of reasons. I use a finger brush , I feel I have more control with that rather than a regular brush. Don’t worry about getting the whole tooth, the outside is more important than trying to get to the inside surface.
There are also some additives you may want to look into that are supposed to prevent the plaque from attaching to the tooth to begin with, they’re made of a seaweed extract. Not a substitute but in addition to brushing. You just sprinkle on food each day.
Last but not least, a raw bone to chew is a great toothbrush if you’re open to that. There’s a lot of good info here on feeding raw bones for dental health. My guy gets a bone at least twice a week. He’s 12 and has never had a dental.

[John P]

Hey all,

After a ton of research, I switched to raw a week ago today. I decided to stick with one protein, and have been feeding exclusively chicken leg quarters. She is 40# so she gets 2lbs of food every day (one quarter in the morning, one at night).

Today I was watching her outside and it looked like she was struggling to poo. She finally did, and it was just a small light brown nugget that was very firm and almost “chalky” when I poked at it with a stick.

I think she’s getting a little too much bone. She seems fine, and doesn’t seem to be bothered or in any pain, so I don’t think there is any cause for concern. I’m going to keep an eye on her for the next day/two and see if her stool gets better.

So, I planned on Introducing Turkey this week… should I wait now? Would you guys suggest throwing in a couple meals with no bones to balance out the RMBs?

Thanks!

[InkedMarie]

I believe you are going way too fast. I have a 7 month old puppy on raw and I was told to leave him on one protein for two weeks before switching. I believe you are supposed to wait quite awhile before adding organs.

Are you on FB? If yes, you should join a raw feeding group there. You will find much more help from people who know than you will here. I feed raw but in ground form with bones so I honestly can’t help with whole meat raw.

[tarcy m]

Hi.. I am a new owner to a rescue pup as of 3 weeks ago. He has severe allergies and is being treated with TemerilP to stop the licking, and scratching. I am not ruling out the food he’s on at the moment as the culprit. At the vets office yesterday he gave me the green light to make his food at home. This is where my confusion begins (sigh): 5 part diet, 1 part only proteins not to exceed 20%, low sodium, low protein. He also told me to buy a petcap multivitamin and add to his food. Warner (2-4 years) has not been diagnosed with anything yet but were in the process of possible heart/lung conditions he believes due to allergies/bronchial, but not certain as the diagnostics are expensive..

I was excited to begin this culinary experience until I googled home made dog food. Do this, don’t do that, egg shells, bones..?? How do I know his nutritional needs and which recipe to achieve this? I am almost ready to throw in the towel, but haven’t given up yet.

What I am asking is anyone who is familiar with the above issues to direct me or give me a break down in figuring out his dietary needs along with what to cook for his max benefits. I’d much rather feed him foods that are of nature and not the preserved bag stuff on the shelf. I appreciate all that took the time to read this post and I hope to hear back soon. Thank you ~ Warner’s Mom

[InkedMarie]

Sabrina:
If you are going to feed raw, you need to know what is in the food. Bones are a must as are organs. I feed grinds with both. You need to do this right. Itjust has to balance over time but it does have to balance out.

[Kelly K]

if you’re on Facebook there is a raw feeding site devoted to it and they also have a Yahoo group. I can’t help with the Facebook link as I closed my account there but here is their Yahoo link

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/rawfeeding/info

If you can’t get the link to work because the group is private try this: http://www.rawlearning.com

I’ll warn you though that this raw feeding group is about feeding whole, raw food such as beef heart, pork shoulder, whole raw chicken, goat legs, nothing is ground. Their theory is that this is how dogs have eaten over evolution and that kibble is awful for them.

I did it for a while but I have a great dane and it became too much for me to manage. I can say that he loved the whole pork shoulder and every once in a while I will still give him whole chicken quarters. The bones help keep his teeth clean.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Kelly K.

[pugmomsandy]

Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats has recipes that include bone meal if you are just going to grind meat without bones. It also has a vitamin recipe and veggie mash recipe. There are also a couple powder premixes like Urban Wolf and CarnivoRaw that you just add muscle meat and fish oil.

[Darlene R]

I recently been giving my dog these marrobones bacon and cheese flavor treats and he became very sick, had to keep him at the vets overnight . I have him home now , he’s still not 100% but at least he’s eating and drinking again, not anything pedigree though.

[Mallary P]

Hi all:

My beloved (spayed) Shih Tzu will be 9 years old this year and I’ve recently [this month] switched her to the Fromm Surf and Turf Grain Free food, which she seems to enjoy. My dog has LOTS of food allergies and we spent about two years plus lots of trial/error to find her a good food. In the beginning the vet had her on Science Diet and steroids for about a week, but that was not a long term solution. She gets whelps (almost like acne) all over her and it’s very itchy. Poor baby. For a long time, she was on Nature’s Recipe limited Ingredient Chicken and Sweet Potato Food. She did well on it [no breakouts], but it wasn’t as great when I read the report on her. Given that she is moving into her senior years, I want to make sure she has the best quality everything because I love her and I want her around for a long time. She gets a decent amount of exercise for a Shih Tzu and is a good weight–according to the vet.

I see some of the forums on here suggesting that they given their dogs different high quality foods in rotation. She’s really enjoying Fromm, but I would like to give her another high quality food to give her some variety. Any recommendations? Acana, Orijen, etc?

She generally does better with Chicken, Salmon, and duck. Beef, Pork, and too much diary has proven to be no-nos in our house. She loves raw carrots as a treat and antler bones to chew. Sometimes I give her high quality canned food, so if I could get both kibble/ canned food recommendations that would be great!

[Ionela B]

She was only 3 and half year old. She was eating 80% freeze dried Stella and Chewy and 20% organic ground raw meat and bones from the butcher – with veggies. In the past year she had mostly the lamb Stella and Chewy, as the poultry varieties were banned in Canada.
I feel guilty thinking that the food may contributed to her disease. The Stella and Chewy lamb variety is very high in fat. And I read articles saying that the freeze dried process is not healthy, as is altering the meat protein’s structure.

What do you think?

[anonymously]

I would call the vet, they must have a 24/7 emergency veterinary clinic near you. They have payment plans and they take credit cards.
A veterinarian that has examined your dog should be the one to advise you.

Stop the raw and all bones. Bland diet for a few days, is probably what they will say.
Make sure he is drinking water, maybe add a little to his soft cooked food.

PS: When he recovers, look into a high quality kibble, my dogs like Nutrisca, but I hear good things about Fromm and Orijen.

[anonymously]

Sounds like he might have a GI upset/blockage, my 9 pound poodle mix had to go to the emergency vet x2 for issues related to “raw meaty bones”. The bone, even when it is ground up into fine particles can turn into cement in the stomach and colon. It is painful and can be quite serious.
I would take him to the vet (today), he’ll probably need an x-ray and then they will discuss treatment. Raw food has risks, especially for delicate small breeds (in my experience)
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

/forums/topic/rectal-issues/

[anonymously]

Idiopathic seizures……sometimes there is no explanation. Keep the diet simple, avoid chemicals and junk. See what the vet recommends. I’d go with a quality kibble as a base. I’d skip the bones, been to the emergency place 2-3 times over the years, twice for GI blockage and another time for a broken tooth. All caused by feeding “raw meaty bones”.

Don’t free feed if you want him to lose weight, feed measured amounts twice a day, pick up the food after 10 minutes if he doesn’t eat and store in the fridg, offer at the next mealtime.
Have fresh water available, add a splash to his food if he’s not a drinker.
Walk him for an hour a day, it may help decrease the frequency of seizures and aid with weight loss.
Don’t be afraid of the medication, I had a peke who lived a long time on a low dose of phenobarbital. They can still have an occasional breakthrough seizure, but it is usually mild.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

[Em R]

Hi all!

My much loved 3 year old mini schnauzer had a bad seizure about 2 months ago. Blood tests etc came back normal, but he has since had two more seizures within the past 2 weeks.

Of course we will look to get him on the medication recommended for epilepsy, but we also want to improve his diet dramatically, as it seems very coincidental that his seizures started within a week or two of putting him on Royal Canin dry food.

Transitioning to a raw diet seems very overwhelming, and I don’t want to accidentally deprive him of any ingredients or overfeed him either (he is maybe a kilo or two overweight). I see petstock have the vets all natural complete mix which is to be mixed with cooked/raw meat… Does anyone know what this is like? I was thinking this with maybe one or two raw bones per week.

Sorry about the long post!

[anonymously]

No, but when I was feeding raw bones my dog experienced GI upset and blockage caused by the finely ground up bone particles, they solidify in the gut and become cement like. It happens…
I no longer feed bones of any type or in any form. I don’t enjoy going to the emergency vet.

[Bushman]

A comment on Bones. I save bones, all bones, in the freezer, when I have a good batch I cook them down, I strain off a clear Bone Broth and can it for my wife to use in her soups, then I cook the bones down again in my crockpot I will boil them for several hours a day for a few days. After a few boiling’s you can reach into to the crockpot and pull out the bones and crush them in your hands, they break down and turn into a mushy pulp, the water and the bone “meal” is then re-heated, canned, and stored in the fridge to be added to my dog’s food. When using your hands it is very easy to tell if there are any hard Bones left. And I never find a splinter, I do occasionally find a couple of bones, or the end of a bone that is too “hard” for me to crush in my hands and I just discard it, although I’m pretty confident with what dogs pick up and gnaw on when they get a chance, that even these “hard” bones would pose no threat.

I have not attempted to separate Bones by type, but I’m pretty sure even spiral ham bones have wound up in my Bone bag with chicken and turkey neck’s and Gizzards, and I don’t recall any of them not being able to break down.

[Hannah G]

I have to rave about a product my sweet GSD loves…

We spoil our dog, and I love doing it.

She gets bones here and there, but many brands scare me with the chemicals they use or how they don’t digest well and some cause her to choke pretty bad…

So I was thrilled when she was able to try some bully bones at a great discount! All I have to say is she loved these and I will be buying them for her often.

#WyldLifePets

[Michelle B]

GRAPES ARE BAD FOR DOGS BECAUSE THEY ARE TOXIC!!! THEY COULD CAUSE KIDNEY FAILURE!!! IT IS NOT AN “ALLERGY”!!!

Even if your dog ate grapes before and was “fine,” that doesn’t mean that they’re somehow immune. It is possible to have kidney damage without symptoms. The effect is accumulative. So if you keep feeding them grapes, eventually the damage to your dog’s kidneys would be great enough to cause renal failure.

It is the actual flesh of the grape that is toxic to dogs, not the seed, as some people think. Grapeseed extract is safe for dogs, so that tells you that it is not the seed that is bad for dogs. Grapes (all varieties, seedless or not), raisins, grape jelly/jam, grape juice are toxic to dogs (and cats). It is difficult to say how much could cause a dog to become seriously ill, or even kill them, so it is safest to call your vet ASAP (or take them to an emergency clinic after hours).

Garlic is okay in small amounts (some dog foods & treats contain garlic). But unless you know the safe dose for your dog’s weight, do not feed them homemade foods or treats with garlic!

Onions are also toxic to dogs, but again, are okay in small doses (but don’t feed to your dogs if you don’t know how much is safe!).

A dog would have to eat a lot (relative to their weight) of MILK CHOCOLATE (for example, my 60 lb dog would have to eat 1kg of milk chocolate to become seriously ill). If it is dark chocolate, baker’s chocolate, or cocoa powder however, a very small amount (1 tbsp for my dog) could kill them! Here is a great calculator to help you decide whether you should take your dog to the vet or not: http://www.petmd.com/dog/chocolate-toxicity

From what I’ve read, avocados are not actually toxic to dogs or cats (they ARE toxic to birds & other animals though). The risk is that your dog may swallow that giant avocado seed in the center. They could choke on it, or it could block their digestion system, which would require surgery.

As for meat bones, it’s an evaluation of risk and reward that every dog guardian needs to make their own choice about. Large, weight-bearing bones (such as large leg bones from cattle or pigs) are more likely to chip or break a tooth. Chicken or turkey bones are less likely to cause injury to teeth. I like to give my dogs chicken wings or turkey vertebrae to chew on. NEVER give your dogs cooked bones!!! Raw bones are safer b/c they will not splinter like cooked bones would! But raw bones could be risky if you have a young child, elderly person, or anyone with immunity issues in the home, or in contact with the dog. Antlers are a possible alternative for dogs with allergies (but again, chipping or breaking a tooth is possible).

[ishita k]

From what I know is that some dogs are allergic to veg foods like avocados,grapes,garlic and butter etc. Not all human food is bad for dogs, but foods like chocolate, garlic,and raisins are bad for them.Some dogs face issues with meat bones as well. Many vets and dog owners reported problems like nausea ,digestion problems after feeding them bones.There are many organic food products which promise 100% veg food for dogs,I personally use Dogsee chew products for my dog and have not faced any serious situations so far! Touch wood.I feel it solely depends on the built up of the dog.So,I guess the consulting a vet to find out about the food the dog is allergic is a good option.

[Kathleen C]

From what I hear, Nylabones are made out of nylon? I used to give them to my dogs and did know this, but now I stay away from them. No problems but have had two dogs die young with very unusual diseases for dogs. I have no idea why one got Cushings and another a blood cancer, but food can be the reasons for many diseases dogs get.

[Jenn H]

I also keep my pups on LBP food until 18 mon. Another option is a food for all life stages. Just be sure to continue keeping calcium levels to 1.5% max.

After your dog has a meal try to make him chill out for about 1/2 hr. I have trained my dogs to chew on a marrow bones or Nylabone type chew toy. This allows the food time to digest (which prevents reflux), helps prevent torsion and cleans teeth.

If your Lab is anything like mine (and I guess all Labs) he probably inhales his food. Try a slow feeder. And add warmish water to kibble.

[linda m]

The balanced diet at the top, does this mean I don’t need to give my maltese vitamins etc. My dog has IBS and I’m new at making her own food. I knew about the cooking the bones, because I saw a video on it. My chicken is cooking and then I will cook down the bones with cider vinegar. Should I put some boiled eggs in her food for the shells? I read I was supposed to put fruit in her food. My dog was a puppy mill dog I rescued 3 years ago and she just recently got IBS , her vet started her on royal canin dry food. she ate it at first and now wont eat it at all, he also started her on steroids, which scares me. She has allergies, she chews and bites her paws. I have so many sprays . ointments for this. She lived in a cage most of her life and I don’t know if its a habit from being in a cage. I have 2 more maltese and they eat blue buffalo. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Deborah and Jim G]

Our standard schnuzer had 12 inches of jejunuem and the cecum removed Feb. 17,2016. Diagnosis of GIST, cancerous tumor. He has had projectile diarrhea since surgery. I mean liquid stools ongoing 4-5 times a day. He will not eat Hill’s ID or WD food. He is eating pan seared turkey and Royal Cainine GI low fat. That is all he will eat. I give him electrolytes (Pedialyte) in his water. I give him probiotics in water with a syringe. He will not eat the food if I sprinkle the probiotics on it. He has not wanted pumpkin or yogurt either.
He is now on amoxicillin after being on flaggel. I am trying anti diarrheal meds very cautiously. I just bought a gel with vitamins to try to get weight on him. He is nothing but skin and bones, we tried appetite stimulant and it helps a little.HELP

[Pitlove]

Marie-

We had a seminar recently about Primal for work. The rep was not very knowledgable and gave a lot of wrong information including that their recreational bones could be fed every day, that veterinary nutritionists were not specialists in canine nutrition and had little knowledge of it and that you could balance their grinds by rotating proteins if you didn’t want to add supplements or a base mix to balance it. Some of their formulas have calcium levels below AAFCO mins, but they claim all their formulas are safe for LBP’s, so I would be worried that other vitamin and mineral levels were reflected in the same way. Obviously long term that could result in deficencies. I also find it concerning when a company reports a food is LBP safe when it is not.

[Cannoli]

Hi All.

Lately I have been ordering more and more raw food online from the following websites such as Hare Today Gone Tomorrow and real raw dog food. Specifically I order their mixed grinds which represents a complete meal of ground organs, bones, and meat.

As silly as this sounds I always worry about what I feed my pup. I wonder if dogfoodadvisor would ever think of reviewing the meals plans that this raw food online companies provide? Sometimes I wonder if these companies do provided exactly what they state. Like how do we know that they are indeed providing organic none GMO grasss fed beef. Just because their website states doesn’t mean that what they state is truthful

[Michele A]

Horse meat should not be consumed by either humans or our pets. Horse slaughter is unethical, cruel and inhumane and the meat from horses is not safe for consumption.

From the Humane Society of the United States:

“Horse slaughter, whether in U.S. or foreign plants, was never and cannot be humane because of the nature of the industry and the unique biology of horses.

Slaughter is a brutal and terrifying end for horses, and it is not humane. Horses are shipped for more than 24 hours at a time without food, water or rest in crowded trucks. They are often seriously injured or killed in transit.

Horses are skittish by nature (owing to their heightened fight-or-flight response), which makes accurate pre-slaughter stunning difficult. As a result, horses often endure repeated blows and sometimes remain conscious during dismemberment—this is rarely a quick, painless death. Before the last domestic plant closed in 2007, the USDA documented in the slaughter pipeline rampant cruelty violations and severe injuries to horses, including broken bones protruding from their bodies, eyeballs hanging by a thread of skin, and gaping wounds.”

Furthermore, most of the horses that wind up being slaughtered and in your dog’s food were never intended to be used for food. Many of them were young horses used in sports such as rodeos and horse racing and then discarded into the food chain. Most of the horses were given drugs that are listed as prohibited for human consumption. Drugs that are known to cause cancer such as Bute. And Bute is only one of many drugs found in the meat of horses. Even de-wormers and fly spray can wind up in their flesh. These drugs are certainly not something I would want my dogs to ingest.

[InkedMarie]

My opinion is that if you feed the whole animal, you don’t need much. I feed primarily grinds from Hare Today; they use the whole animal mostly. I add eggs 2-3x weekly and salmon oil daily. My older dog gets some joint stuff.

Red meat should be more than white. I feed bones for teeth also.

[Allison S]

I have a 3 year old bulldog that I introduced to a raw diet a few months ago. So far success, but maybe you guys can provide some insight on tweaks.

Inkedmarie: what do you add to your dogs food to include fiber in the diet? Do you use a suppliment? Ive done alot of research on raw diets, and lets just say, like anything else, everyone has their own opinion, so it’s hard to figure things out, but I just try and use the common denominators I find, and trial and error. I’m basically feeding a large portion of ground turkey, or pork, and a small portion of ground beef, and any other muscle meat I find at the store for variety. I add in small portions of organ meat such as heart or tripe, and small portions of veggies. (thoughts on the organ meat? most research suggests adding it for certain nutrients, but I just watched some videos about a vet speaking highly of raw diets, but said no organs!) It varies, but I mostly use carrots, spinach, and pumpkin. However, my dog has developed yeast. I used to give her raw chicken legs as a snack (which I monitored, and she was successful at eating those properly) but i’ve read bulldogs dont’ usually tolerate chicken well, so I cut that out of her diet completely. I’ve been able to obtain other meat bones to substitute. The yeast has gotten better, but it’s not gone. Another source told me carrots aren’t good because they digest into sugar that feeds the yeast, and suggested only green vegetables. I’m really trying to tweak the diet as much as possible, and give as little suppliments as possible. Mostly cause i’m broke, haha, but also i just like the idea of doing things naturally. I do have her on a probiotic, and fish oil. And i’ve also started giving her coconut oil and yogurt…just a spoonful as a treat each day. Go figure, i probably have the only dog in the world that will eat spoonfuls of coconut oil, but hates peanut butter.

Thoughts?

[virginia R]

Hi Janis – I have two Standard Poodles, both “energetic chewers”, the first is now 4 and we made the mistake of giving her bones and antlers when she was young. Resulted in damaged enamel – visible marks on her teeth which are now also permanently stained. We see specialist dentist with her (and our cats). His advice is clear – no bones, antlers or anything that is hard (“hit yourself in the shin, it it hurts don’t allow it”). We’ve tried Yak Milk (shattered), bully sticks/bull penis – the dogs chew off hunks and choke. Same with trachea, pigs ears, veterinary dental chews. We’ve found only one safe (enough) thing for chewing – it’s like a nylabone made by a company called Tasty Bone. Still with it we have to watch – they can chew and make burrs on the toy and then it can make their gums bleed. And of course there are the Kong products – black for aggressive chewers. Good for you – no toys without supervison.

[LYNDA C]

I have been making bone broth for a couple of years. If you collect any type of bone and freeze it in a plastic baggie, (even a hammock) and slow cook it in a crock pot for a couple of days, or boil them on the stove for 12-24 hours (even longer) with some apple cider vinegar, most of the bones are quite soft. At this point, I pour off the bone broth into quart glass jars, and keep refrigerated until I need the jelled broth. Then I put all the cooked bones and water in my Vita Mix (very strong blender) and within a minute of blending, the mixture is pretty creamy. Very tiny bones are at the bottom of the blender. If they bother you, they can be thrown away, but it is only about 2 tablespoons of tiny chips.

I put 1-2 tablespoons of the creamy blended bone meal over my dogs food, and they love it. You can even use it in homemade soups for yourself, and it makes everything I put it in – taste even better.

[Susan]

Be very careful with rawhide they swell in the stomach if pieces are swallowed & those cooked bones you see in pet shops, dogs are dying the bones splitter in the stomach & bowel…. Go on Face Book look at “Rodney Habib” page, he is often posting stories about rawhide & the chemicals used to make rawhide & other bad treats….. If you scroll down on his page he has a easy to make sesame honey chicken jerky strips you can make yourself…..I just bought Kangaroo Tendons but I live Australia these Kangaroo Tendons last hours…..this is what they look like there might be something similar in America…
http://shop.petsnacks.com.au/products/kangaroo-tendon-dog-treat-1

[Kathy R]

Hi everyone,
New to site, just adopted a 20 month Aussie/BC/Retriever mix. Our first dog in 10 years. Until we can trust him not to kill the cat he will be in a crate 2 days a week while we work, with a walk at lunchtime. Want to get him a long lasting, safe chew toy to keep him busy while we’re gone. Tried a frozen pbutter filled kong but he took care of that in about 15 minutes.

The store has a million types of rawhides, antlers, Himilayan yak stuff, synthetic bones, etc….I am overwhelmed. What do you recommend that he can be left alone with? He has not chewed on anything inappropriate but shredded a tug of war toy in about 5 minutes…chewed right thru it so I think he’s a strong chewer. Greenie’s last about 2 minutes.

I do not want anything that is colored or messy/smelly or bloody as his crate is on my light tan carpeting. Hopefully something the cat won’t be interested in either. What is safe? Our old dog loved rawhides and they lasted forever…but they seem to be ‘out” now though we never had any problems with them.

[Chloe K]

I’m really concerned in starting my puppy off with feeding raw chicken because it’s so hard to find just chicken out of the bone, (I’m Australian, and I pretty much live out in the country so it’s hard to find things like that) I can get heart mince, liver mince, and I can very easily get beef and kangaroo diced, but no where sells chicken diced. :/

What can I do? Is Chicken Mince ok to use for a few weeks before I can progress to beef/cow? The closest to us that sells raw for dogs has “Chicken Scapular Trim” which I’m not 100% sure but I think that is just meat and no bone? Is that ok to feed + the liver/heart and bones in the night for their bone intake.

Thanks for your help.

[Liz S]

My 16 week old BC puppy has been fed a combo of raw and kibble. He’s a maniac for his food. The first time I offered him a chicken neck whole, at ten weeks, he swallowed it whole, no joke! I offered him a pork rib bone then took it away (traded) because I was worried the same thing was going to happen, he was so frantic with it. Since, he’s been eating ground food. He chews nicely on bully sticks and pig ears. Any recommendations for safe ways to teach him about knawing on raw bones vs the gulp method he’s currently in favor of? Thank you!

[El]

Hi Ana A

“Fresh” to me is whole foods either fed raw or lightly cooked. The 2 below are complete diets for Adult Dogs, and because they DON’T contain bone they can be lightly cooked.

/dog-food-reviews/freshpet-vital-raw-patties/
/dog-food-reviews/freshpet-vital-raw-rolled/

For transitioning from Kibble or canned to raw, I would lightly cook the raw to eliminate some of the possible bacteria, and to slowly accustom your dog’s digestive system to the new diet. I would also transition very slowly. Start with 10% of lightly cooked raw and go up by 10% every third day. Repeat when transitioning from lightly cooked to fully raw. It’s slow, but it’s worth it. A high potency multi-strain probiotic along with a prebiotic will help in these transitions.

Once you are feeding fully raw for a couple of months with no problems, you can start looking at ALL raw foods, including those with bones. The transition periods from one raw food to another can usually be done in a couple of days, and some are able to switch raw foods with no transition at all.

If you would like to learn more about raw feeding along with recipes for preparing food at home, I recommend this book;

Good Luck, and feel free to ask away 😉

[Kris G]

I made this recipe for my female dog she was nursing and was losing fur and wanted to help her so yeah she usually eats royal canin. Dulse granules are good for Iodine and cinnamons good for gas. I dont feed my dogs bone though I know that bones are rich in minerals not just calcium. I just use some dental chews.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Kris G.

[Coonhound Mama]

Just a very urgent reminder to never feed your dog cooked bones. Raw bones are fine when fed in a size-appropriate proportion.

[Susan]

Hi Greg, my boy was diagnosed with IBD thru biopsies 2013, I contacted a Naturopath thru email first to see if she knew anything about IBD & she did, so I booked a consultation over phone she rings you or does Skype for overseas….
Here’s her link her “Maintenance Diet” http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/natural-diet.html
I told her everything about Patches health, she said it sounds like Patches Pancreas isn’t doing its job & working properly & we need to fix Patches gut……
Jacqueline put Patch on the home made raw “Maintenance Diet” she would not let me buy any of those premade raw diets she said, she has seen them being made & they are not good for dogs especially if they have any health problems especially IBD…..
I had to pick 2 proteins, I picked Kangaroo mince & Chicken breast, 2-4 veggies, I picked, broccoli, celery, carrot & 1-2 fruits I pick apple, all veggies & fruit must be washed & peeled then cut & put thru a blender, for breakfast I feed 1 cup protein kangaroo & add 1-2 spoons of the blended veggie/fruit mix also had to add Digestive Enzymes 1/2 capsule & live probiotic 1/2 capsule per meal…..she told me freeze the veggie/fruit mix in 2 spoon sections & freeze the meats separate in 1 cup sections, it was so easy to do, then when Patch was doing firm stools & was OK which was the next day, I was surprised he did the firmest poo I’ve ever seen, Jacqueline promised me he would, she said the Digestive enzymes & probiotic will firm stools & they did, then I could start to add the DigestaVite Plus Powder 1/4 teaspoon then increase after 1 week.
You need to add supplements & ingredients slowely 1 at a time over 5 days cause if something goes wrong you will not know what is causing the problem……. Less is best in the beginning 🙂 also she told me No bone, some IBD dogs don’t do well eating bone……
I now cook this diet minus any meaty bones & add potato, zucchini….

Sounds like your dog Pancreas isn’t working properly either, not digesting her food properly, I would start with cooking first & see how she does, its fresh & you know what you have cooked, I freeze 2 weeks worth of meals….
have you heard of “Balance It” http://secure.balanceit.com/….Balance It gives you recipes to suit your dogs health problems takes about 20 sec then gives you all recipes, shows you how many calories, how much fat, protein fiber is in that meal & you can contact a their Vet Nutritionist….
Have you tried a digestive enzyme?? instead of increasing the steroid…..also have you tried Metronidazole (flagyl) for 2 weeks, the Metronidazole often fixes things up & kills the bad bacteria these dogs have problems with, Patch has a few scripts of the Metronidazole in the cupboard & I put him on it for 2 weeks as soon as I start to see his poos going yellow & sloppy & smelling bad….Good Luck

[Kris G]

discard the bones

[Leslie C]

I know a little bit about seizures as I have had two dogs, a Bernese Mountain Dog and a Golden Retriever that did not live together and both had seizures. The Golden we bought as a puppy after the first Berner female died. I did a lot of research on the breeds and the issue of seizures. Bernese Mountain Dogs are prone to seizures as they age, Goldens are not. And no one knows what that means, prone to, or why. We believe that initially, the Berner had a brain tumor or cancer that travelled to her brain. I was using a regular vet who just put her on anti seizure meds that really didn’t help. No seizures, no personality, she only lived a month after we put her on the meds. As a puppy she never had seizure, therefor, we knew that she was not epileptic. Epilepsy is diagnosed before or around two years of age. The Golden was having seizures that were probably unrelated to his diagnosis, osteo-carcenoma (bone cancer) which he got at nine. He actually lived another year after he was diagnosed- usually the diagnoses is six months. Since he lived way beyond his prescribed “end”, probably because I was cooking human grade food, and because of the attention he got from his family, at his last visit to the vet they believed that perhaps tumors form elsewhere in his body may have metastasized to his brain. He got real bad real fast only in his last ten days. So I think the food was a big part of lengthening his life, making him happy and giving him the best quality nutrition, and sometimes there is just nothing else you can do. Heavy meds do not make a happy dog. He died Spring of 2015. My current Bernese Mountain Dog (unrelated, but from the same breeder as the other dog) has had four unpredictable seizures in the last year and a half. I thought at first that it might have been from the dry food because of the Golden’s seizures. I got rid of the enormous cookies (Pro-Pet) we got from Agway with our grain and hay deliveries. The dogs liked coming to the barn and chowing down on big bones. Its very odd though, his blood work was good, especially for a 9 year old Berner. My vet is a holistic vet, who gives our dogs (we have a Wheaten too) supplements to help them maintain an effective system. (Like vitamins). They are also regular vets that give shots and operate, and they absolutely believe that foods can be toxic to pets. Especially poor brands of pet food. (Look at what the first ingredient is on the label). HOWEVER, more toxic are the many unnecessary shots that they give. Really. The puppy shots and rabies (every several years depending on the dogs age) are necessary, but there are many other shots that you can ask your vet to omit. In addition, you are worried about cleaning products? If you’re okay, your dog should be okay, but you never know. I think that lawn products, stuff on the sidewalk, stuff that your dog can lick off his paws and get sick from are real problems. I am trying to find out if any of the dry foods I feed them have caused seizures or something else. The now get Merrick and Blue, and Blue Dog Bakery biscuits. Has anyone said anything about Milk Bone? (I think the UPS delivery guys give them Milk Bone when the drop boxes off). But really, I find it easy to cook for them, making chicken or fish for the family, I just make extra. We also have chickens so they get a lot of eggs, those small carrots, peas, cooked yams, apples, and even plain yogurt. If you know where it came from and if your eating it yourself its safe. Allergies are another story. I hope this helped a little bit… And please, if anyone discovered more about this bizarre and mysterious seizure conundrum, or about the dog foods and treats I listed above, please post!!

[Nora L]

I cared for a Siberian Husky who had a long standing case of epilepsy. Her seizures never went away completely but were greatly decreased when her owners started feeding her a home-made, low-fat, raw meat/bones diet.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Nora L.

[Angela B]

She doesn’t appear to have any pain or discomfort associated with her dry food. It is more of an observation that if given a hard treat (milk bones) etc, I have to break hers up into really small pieces. If I get the wrong bag of dog food (small bites vs small breed) the food is slightly bigger and she seems to have trouble eating it. I don’t really know if it has anything to do with the teeth or if maybe it’s just the size of her mouth. Again she is very petite. I do appreciate your feedback. If I were to switch her to a wet food she would likely become obese quickly simply because she would view it as a treat. I have thought of blending wet into her food but again the little heifer will eat the wet and leave the dry. She is such a ham. Lol

[anonymously]

I don’t use dental chews for my pets. I brush their teeth once a day with chicken flavored toothpaste, they consider it a treat. (YouTube has excellent how to videos). I have had very good results.
I consider dental chews and water additives to be breath fresheners, at best. They do nothing to remove tarter from the back and sides.
I don’t use bones anymore either, due to the risk of broken teeth and GI disturbances I encountered.

PS: I like Petrodex 6.2 oz tube, Chewy.com has a good price. The trick is to brush at least once a day. Small breeds tend to have lousy teeth. The daily brushing will make a BIG difference. I don’t bother with chews, powders or any of that gobbledygook, it is the abrasive scrubbing motion that does the work, I even have one of my dogs used to a battery operated toothbrush which provides good brushing motion.
I add a splash of water to their food also, it helps to cleanse, a lot of dogs don’t drink enough water and small breeds are prone to bladder stones if they don’t consume enough.
.

[aimee]

Hi Kelly,

You can find veterinary nutritionists through their website acvn dot org. But most won’t do raw diets and even fewer a raw diet for a puppy. If you want to go that route I’d suggest trying Dr Bartges

The reason most won’t, I think, is two fold.. one the pathogen exposure and two the availability of nutrients contained in raw meaty bones isn’t quantified. Providing calcium at just the right range for a large breed pup becomes an unknown if calcium absorption from these sources isn’t known.

Some time ago I read an article on a pup that had severe calcium depletion on a home made raw diet yet there was plenty of bone in the gut.. In other words the calcium from the bone that was being fed wasn’t being absorbed.

So I wonder if a vet nutritionist who would formulate for a pup would skip the bone and use a Ca source whose availability is known.

The commercial raw foods you mention may be all life stage formula’s meaning they meet the criteria for puppies and then by default for adults.

The only company I know of that made a raw that went through feeding trials and is HPP and consults with a vet nutritionist is Natures Variety. The current formula haven’t been through feeding trials but carry a feeding trial statement by way of AAFCO’s family rule.

Like pitlove, I too have seen horrible results from a raw food diet on the growth of a puppy. The owner was an experienced raw food feeder for her past adult dogs and this was the first pup she raised on raw. The dog was anemic, small for its breed and had to have orthopedic surgery at a young age. So sad….After having seen this first hand it is why I’m uneasy with your plan.

[Shawna]

Hi Kelly P,

I’m a raw feeder and also recommend feeding raw right on weaning or as soon after as possible. I think feeding bones to dogs that handle them is a great idea – Of my eight, I have one that gulps and bones are too risky for her. The others actually chew so they get bones. However when it comes to large breed puppies, aimee is right. They need controlled amounts of calcium and shouldn’t be overfed. That DOESN’T mean they can’t eat raw though. Hound Dog Mom has recipes here on the forum that are an excellent option for large breed puppies.

Here’s a couple good sources on large breed puppies and calcium
“Optimal feeding of large breed puppies, Jennifer Larsen DVM, MS ”
http://www.lgd.org/library/Optimal%20feeding%20of%20large%20breed%20puppies.pdf

“The Mistake That Can Wreak Havoc on Your Dog’s Skeleton” Dr. Karen Becker DVM
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/05/31/large-dog-feeding-mistakes.aspx

Wishing best of health for your pupp!!

[El]

Hi Kelly P

I would recommend these 2 books as part of your research into feeding a properly balanced raw diet to your pup.

“Ok I have not yet gotten my puppy I have about 4 weeks still. She will grow up to be around 100lbs, so I’ll probably feed her about 2lbs a day.”

Here are the feeding guidelines from Primal, I think they are pretty accurate. Puppies need more than 2% of their body weight daily.

Feeding Percentages
1.5% Weight Loss
2.0% Non-Active
2.5% Maintain Weight **
3.0% Slight Weight Gain
3.5% Significant Weight Gain
4.0% Kittens/Puppies (8 weeks-1 year)
4.5-8.0% Kittens/Puppies (4-8 weeks)
4.0-8.0% Pregnant/Lactating

“We will be training too with treats so I need to be sure they level each other out. I have done a lot of research as I’ve been preparing for the past 1-2 years. What I found so far is the following.
Feeding anti-oxidants or some sort of cooked veggies is a good idea.”

I would puree the veggies. Cauliflower, broccoli, spinach in moderation, green beans, peas in moderation…

“Feeding organic eggs, shell and all, is good at least once a week. Egg shells provide a lot of calcium.”

I would suggest free-range organic eggs. I know that people feed finely ground egg shells as a calcium source, but I don’t know about feeding whole egg shells. I would do a little more research specifically on the calcium requirements of large breed puppies if I were you. She will be getting calcium from bones, egg shells, spinach and ?

Feeding a whole fish once a week is good because of the oil it provides, be sure not to feed tuna because of the high mercury levels. Cooked Tripe is great and so is a some coconut oil. I figure I can saute the veggies in coconut oil.

In general, I would feed small fish, they usually have softer bones and less toxic buildup. I would not cook the tripe. One of the benefits of feeding “Raw Green Tripe” are the enzymes, and any processing or cooking will destroy those enzymes.

“As far as percentages I have read a few different things but my research has come up with the below.
Version 1
75% Muscle/skin (i.e chicken breast)
10% Edible Bone
5% Liver
5% Non liver organs
5% Anti-oxidants/Veggies
Version 2
50% Meaty Bones
35% Muscle/Skin (i.e chicken breast)
5% Liver
5% Non liver organs
5% Anti-oxidants/Veggies”

I feed my dogs a homemade lightly cooked diet. Version one looks pretty good. Since I lightly cook my guys food I would replace the 10% edible bone with 5% more pureed veggies and 5% supplements to balance out the diet.

“My main questions are about bones.”

This is good because I see bones as the riskiest part of your diet plan and I would carefully consider both sides of the argument so that you can make the most informed choice possible. Also, regarding Wolves and bones, research has shown that larger pieces of bones are excreted from wolves wrapped in the fur of the animal they ate, maybe as a way of protecting their insides from the bone fragments.

Good Luck with the new addition to your family 😉