[Hound Dog Mom]

Thanks Patty 🙂 That was actually my exact thought when I saw the collar – it was so hound dog I had to buy it.

[theBCnut]

Wow HDM

Your girl eats a turkey neck like mine eat chicken necks!

BTW I LOVE her collar, perfect for a hound dog.

[Hound Dog Mom]

My suggestion would be to just feed a quality food and brush your dog’s teeth. Feeding raw meaty bones will help or specially designed dental chews (in addition to brushing, not instead of) will help too. Other than prescription foods specifically designed for dental health (which contain low quality ingredients), there are no dry foods that are proven to improve dental health.

[NectarMom]

Sheltiesmom , couldn’t you cut the turkey necks to the appropriate size for your dogs? I plan to use PVC cutters when I feed bones to my girls but I just need to get brave like when I switched to Darwin’s , which was a HUGE step for me. I think we are headed in the right direction though 🙂

[NectarMom]

Well I am super impressed with the way they put that away so quickly. Gosh I so want to do this with my girls. I don’t have a clue where to begin though and where to get organic turkey anything around here. We have a fresh market but I doubt they would have turkey necks. My girls are so much smaller that your big beautiful hounds so I am just a bit intimidated by the bones. My smallest chihuahua was eating some of the Darwin’s and I heard her crunching on a bone so I called Darwin’s to ask them if that would hurt my girl and of course they said no. I know I will look back at this in a few months and maybe a year and laugh at myself.

[InkedMarie]

I wish I old say I showed that to Steve but tht old gross him out!
Love the background vocals, too 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

I was trying to use the link on Photobucket before and it didn’t work. So I tried uploaded to vimeo and just posted the URL and it worked.

[pugmomsandy]

Do tell!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

WOO HOO! I figured out how to post videos! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

(Going to try a different method)

Gertie eating a turkey neck:

Gertie eating a chicken back (Mabel and Gus providing the background music):

[theBCnut]

I give mine calf, goat, and lamb ribs too.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I wish I could figure out how to make the videos show up. I’ve got pictures figured out but not videos..

[InkedMarie]

Get the video and info to dr mike, it should probably be a stickie.

[Hound Dog Mom]

p.s. Raw pork should be frozen for at least 3 weeks before feeding.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I feed my dogs pork necks. They’re soft enough that they can be consumed entirely by large dogs and would be considered a “raw meaty bone” rather than a recreational bone. I’ve been feeding them quite a bit lately because I can get them for only $0.65 per lb.

[weimlove]

I found some pork neck bones for a great price at the store, are they safe for teeth?

[NectarMom]

I am going to change my review just a bit because I do not know if it is the Raw causing this or not. I feed at 6AM every morning before I go to work and then usually around 5:30PM I feed again. I am mixing 1 TBSP of Raw with 1/8 cup of Brothers Allergy, less than half TSP of pumpkin and wellness 95% turkey and then mixed with that in the morning they get half a scoop of mercola enzymes and evening meal they get half scoop of probiotics. My problem is in-between because all the sudden hours later after a meal some are throwing up clear foam. Is this because they are needing something in between meals? I was thinking of getting some mercola bones for them to chew on. We have been on a good routine before the Raw added where 2 of my girls are loosing weight and they needed to. I don’t want to add anything else to the diet to make them gain weight. Stools are fine and no throwing up any solid food so just the throwing up hours later the clear foamy liquid. Any suggestions on what I can give them? Thanks 🙂

[JillMcN]

Then that is the book I’ll buy. I like rotating in red meat for the reasons you gave, too.

I was SO hoping that diet was near balanced.
You are so kind to take the time to go into that much detail – thank you so much.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi JillMcN –

Please be aware that using a pre-mix will not necessarily ensure that your dog is getting all the nutrients it needs. There are a few pre-mixes available that meet AAFCO nutrient profiles when prepared per instructions (The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, U-Stew, Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix), but many have no claim of meeting the AAFCO’s nutrient standards and many of these – like Sojo’s, for example – don’t appear to be conplete and balanced when prepared according to the instructions. These unbalanced pre-mixes would be fine to use intermittently, but to feed long term you would need to know what supplements to add in order to balance the recipe. So if you’re planning on using a pre-mix long term, please make sure it meets the AAFCO’s nutrient standards.

The recipe you posted actually appears to be quite balanced, only a few things that I’d tweak. I’d cut the liver from 8 oz. to 4 oz. and give 4 oz. of another organ (kidney, lungs, spleen, etc.) I’d add another whole food supplement (such as alfalfa or wheatgrass) in addition to the kelp. I’d also highly recommend rotating in red meat for the poultry 50% of the time – this will help balance the fats as poultry is high in polyunsaturated fats (particularly linoleic acid) while red meat is high in saturated fats and low in polyunsaturated fats. Red meat is also much higher in iron and many micronutrients than poultry. There are several books available that contain complete and balanced recipes that are AAFCO compliant. “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is my favorite – the recipes are for raw food but could easily be converted to cooked by substituting muscle meat for any RMB’s and adding 800-1,000 mg. calcium per pound of meat.

[JillMcN]

Thanks so much.
At least if I use a premix I’ll be sure she’s getting all the vitamins she needs.

I appreciate the help!

[Jackie B]

Supposedly, cooking bones is what makes them sharp and splintery. That is why raw feeders feed raw bones only. Although when I tried raw bones (even small chicken wing size ones) they made my dog throw them up (in my bed). I do know that Merrick sells a canned food called “Wingaling” that contains pressure cooked chicken bones, soft enough for a dog to eat.

As for premixes, I’ve had great success with Sojo’s. The grain-free mix smells kind of strong (like smelly broccoli) but it is easy to add cooked or raw meat to and my 7 YO rescue dog loves it. I mix up a big batch and use an ice cream scoop to put portions on wax paper on a cookie sheet, freeze, then put the frozen portions in a container to thaw as needed.

[JillMcN]

If only the softest bones were removed and processed separately into mush… maybe. OK.

I’ll still remove all the bones this time and continue to add egg shell powder until I decide on which supplements should be added to the above.

Or could someone weigh in and tell me whether I should just get a pre-mix and add my own meat?
I won’t be feeding raw. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

[theBCnut]

For me to feel OK about leaving any of the bone in, I would have to have a way of guaranteeing that they were actually pulverized instead of just broken into sharp pieces.

[JillMcN]

I have a recipe by Andi Brown – I’ve made it once for my 7-yr-old-pug and I’d like to make it again while I continue researching the things I need to add.
It is home-cooked, not raw. I’ll post it after my question. After reading some posts here, I got as nearly-to-powder as possible some egg shells to add to each meal (1/4 tsp.) and some sardines for Omega 3s (although there is wild-caught salmon on the recipe).

When I cook the chicken, I obviously remove the large bones, but there are several small bones that I think would be very soft and thoroughly decimated by my extra-strong hand blender.
Is the answer always “no” – do not feed cooked bones, even finely mushed-up cooked bones to our dogs?

Thanks in advance.

The recipe I used (minus the oats and minus the garlic):
The Whole Pet Diet Chicken Stew
Special note: use organic ingredients whenever possible
• 5 pounds Whole Chicken or Turkey (bones, organs, skin and all)
• 6 – 8 cups spring water
• 1/2 pound of additional beef liver, or chicken liver or turkey liver (your choice)
• 1/2 pound of wild salmon
• 2 cloves chopped fresh garlic
• 1/2 pound green peas
• 1 pound coarsely chopped carrots
• 1/2 pound coarsely chopped sweet potato (yam)
• 1 pound coarsely chopped zucchini
• 1 pound coarsely chopped yellow squash
• 1/2 pound of coarsely chopped green beans
• 1 pound coarsely chopped celery
• 1/4 teaspoon kelp powder
• Dash of dried rosemary
See Chef’s Tip on Freshly Grated Toppings
For Dogs:
Add 12 oz. of Rolled Oats and adjust the water content to a total of 12 cups or enough to just “cover” the ingredients.

Combine all ingredients in a 10-quart stock pot (stainless steel, please). Bring to boil, reduce to low, and simmer for about 1 1/2 hours.

Once finished (your carrots are soft), let cool and de-bone the chicken by hand. With an electric hand mixer (I use one available from Sears for about $19) or a food processor, blend all the ingredients into a nice puree. Using plastic yogurt containers, or Tupperware, make up “meal-sized” portions or what you will need for three days, and freeze what you don’t need immediately.

[pugmomsandy]

Alot of folks like the Cabela’s 1 to 1.5 horsepower grinder and say that grinding chicken is no problem. I think those are $350 or less. I use a Weston 22 which has no problem with chicken to turkey to pork ribs but it was over $500.

[NectarMom]

Thank you Patty I will try that this morning. HDM , I have seen the dog grass sprouts. I sprout beans all the time for my parrot. I will see if I can find the website again where I bought the bird sprouts. I believe it was called The Sprout People. I just cannot get over how well my Shihtzu is eating her food out of her bowl every time and seriously I have never seen her so excited about eating..ever!

Can you recommend which raw bones I should start out with that are safe and small enough for tiny dogs?

Patty I will try the partial defrost Thank you both so much , Jennifer

[weimlove]

Is there a specific reason you need to grind? Chicken bones are very sift, and great for dental health. With grinding, you lose all of the great dental benefits.

[theBCnut]

That’s what I do, though I’m sure that our turkey necks have a higher meat:bone ratio because they don’t look like the bones are much bigger. They just have a huge meaty area where they were attached to the body, about 4 times more meat than bone. The head end isn’t so meaty though, only about the same amount of meat as bone.

[theBCnut]

Don’t worry about the veg unless you see something going on that makes you suspect a real problem. My personal feelings on adding veg and fruits is that I like knowing that mine are getting a variety of antioxidants, just in case. They may not digest every speck of it but they are getting a variety.

I feed twice a day, so 20% of that is about 3 meals, so I feed bones 3 times a week and don’t worry if they don’t eat the usual supplements in those meals. Some people feed raw meaty bones once a day and then for the other meal they make sure that all the days supplements are mixed in.

[K-Rae]

I started my 4 dogs onto pre-made raw a month ago. They are currenty getting chicken and beef (carnivora.ca), and mixed raw bones to chew on once or twice a week. I plan on switching them onto a different brand (k9choicefoods.com) and serving beef, bison and llama. No more chicken.
My 9 yr old pom/chi and my 8 yr old german shepherd are urinating way to much. The 10 yr old westie is a little more and the 1 yr old collie/chihuahua (yes I know) is completely normal. I have asked my vet for her opinion and she says switch back to kibble and you won’t have a problem, and if it does continue bring them in. I will not switch back to kibble, and the increased urination is the ONLY negative side effect.
– not drinking any more water (actually was less then when on kibble)
– eating supper at 6:30 out several times before bed at 10-11pm and directly before bed
– urine is clear when they mess in the house over night (not sure which dog, but probably the pom)
– eating 2% of their weight (they are at perfect weight and all extremely fit)
– never had any health problems other than food allergies (why we went to raw)
– normal energy level, maybe slightly increased because they feel good
– the pom has started eating feces again (he did it when he was a pup) * I have reviewed other forums on that and will be adding enzymes as per HDM 🙂
– everyone is defecating properly as per raw, not straining and not overally chalky
I am an educated dog owner, and have done my research before switching to raw. The pre-made works best for us because we work in emergency services and really never know when we will be called out and how long we will be gone. We need to be able to have a friend stop by and feed the dogs and can’t expect someone to feed primal raw for us or spend a long amount of time preparing it. I always keep 2 days of food portioned out into sealed glass containers in the fridge.

I am curious if other people that feed raw have had this problem? Did it resolve it’s self? Is it possible it is the chicken diet? I really don’t know? I am at a loss as to why they are urinating so much. Any help is appreciated.

[pugmomsandy]

You can type in the words “grain free” in the search box and it will bring up grain free dry and wet foods.

Also there’s an article about kibble and clean teeth:
/choosing-dog-food/dry-dog-food-cleaner-teeth/

I give the dogs rib bones and marrow bones for their teeth. Raw. If your dog will take a pill, then you can give it that way, if not then open it up and sprinkle it on the food.

[janet5130]

Hound Dog Mom – I’ve read your post many times to take it all in but i have a few questions for you. First off, aside from dry dog food being cheaper than wet, is there any other reason to feed a dog dry food? As far as adding a supplement from the health section of the grocery store, do you mean in pill form? And, if so, do you mean opening it up and putting the powder in the dog’s food? And my last question is, you give your dog raw bones? You don’t even boil them? Why do I think this is bad? Am I wrong to think they could harbor bacteria or something? Also, I thought that certain bones can splinter and cause issues? Maybe that’s from cooking them? Please educate me further 🙂

Thanks,
Janet

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Janet –

If you’re sure the “scooting” is not due to anal gland issues I would bring a stool sample to the vet to check for parasites just in case (certain worms – such as tapeworms – can cause “scooting”).

To help with the stools and the transition to a new food I would add a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each meal and supplement with probiotics and digestive enzymes (there’s no need to buy a “pet” supplement, something from the health section for at the grocery store with suffice and likely be cheaper). You can continue the pumpkin and supplements permanently if need be.

Grain-free foods are, unfortunately, pricier than grain-inclusive foods. Earthborn is probably one of the most budget-friendly grain-free foods available. Some other options would be Nutrisource, Taste of the Wild, The Source, Victor, Authority and 4Health (note: Taste of the Wild and 4Health are manufactured by Diamond). NutriSource, Taste of the Wild and Source run about the same price as Earthborn while Victor, Authority and 4Health are slightly cheaper. Authority Grain-Free is available exclusively at Petsmart. The Source and 4Health are available exclusively at Tractor Supply. Earthborn, Taste of the Wild and Nutrisource can be found at most high end pet specialty stores and online. Victor will likely be the most difficult food to locate – I haven’t been able to find an online retailer and it’s not sold in my area but if you can find it, it looks like a fantastic food and it a great bargain.

You’re correct that dry food doesn’t really clean teeth, that’s a myth. I wish it wasn’t though – I’d eat potato chips and cookies all day and use the excuse that it’s for my dental health lol. 🙂 Canned food is actually healthier and more species appropriate (higher moisture content and higher protein levels) so if you can afford to occasionally buy some quality canned food (4Health has some grain-free varieties that are a bargain at only $0.99 per can) that would be great for your dog. Healthy “people food” is good to add to kibble too – eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean meat, plain yogurt, cottage cheese, low glycemic veggies, etc.

I think raw bones are best for dental health. My dogs eat a raw diet and get raw bones daily – beef ribs, pork necks, turkey necks, chicken backs, etc. If you’re going to buy something from the store I’d go for “natural” chews (make sure they’re made in the US) such as dried tracheas, bully sticks and pig ears – these are species-appropriate (high protein, grain-free) and great for dental health. As far as “treats,” I’d go with high protein meaty treats such as jerky (made in the US of course), grain-free biscuits or freeze-dried raw foods. I’m a big fan of Nature’s Variety Instinct dog biscuits, EVO biscuits and Darford Zero-G biscuits (although I’m not sure if the Darford biscuits are being made anymore 🙁 ). I also feed freeze-dried raw (such as NV Instinct and Stella & Chewy’s) as treats.

[janet5130]

Hi there. I’m new to this site. I rescued a beagle/terrier/mix (maybe Jack Russel in her but must also be something bigger because she’s taller than a beagle and has a greyhound build) a few weeks ago named Sydney. Her foster was feeding her Purina Pro Plan Selects dry food and mixing in a tablespoon or so of wet Alpo canned food so I continued with this. I’ve noticed she scoots alot on the carpet and I see her licking her private area and butt and chews her paws sometimes. Her anal glands were expressed right before I adopted her so I don’t believe that is the issue. I also notice that when she does poo, it’s much more runnier than any dog I’ve had prior. I wouldn’t say it’s diarrhea but it’s mushy and you can’t really “pick it up” when she does it while I’m walking her.

I had a beagle prior to this dog and fed her Iams Healthy Weight dry dog food which I now see on this site is not good. She developed bladder stones later in life. I had to put her down a few months ago as she had cancer. :o( I’ve heard that feeding all dry dog food can cause bladder stones but I’m not sure that is true. I’ve also heard that feeding a dog dry dog food helps keep their teeth clean but I find that hard to believe also, since nobody brushes their teeth with a cookie. ha!

Anyway, sorry to go on and on…… My question is, bearing in mind that I’m not rich but I’m not exactly poor either, what would you all recommend I feed Sydney? I’m thinking of trying a grain-free food but there’s so much information on here I’m confused. I was thinking about Earthborn Holistic grain free but it is quite pricey. And then, I’m wondering, should I mix in some wet food also?

Also, what about better quality treats and bones? My hubby keeps telling me to stop buying the Dingo bones because they are made in China and probably horrible but what else is there?

Please educate me!

Thanks,
Janet

[pugmomsandy]

You’re welcome! I like the ingredient list of the Vital Essentials. Very simple. Meat and bones, organs and oil. Can’t get any shorter than that! Sometimes I’m at dogforums(dot)com and pugvillage(dot)com too (aka Pugtown). Dogforums(dot)com has a great “raw feeding pictures thread”.

[Becky]

I have a 1.5 year old pug who started with those exact symptoms at about that same age. We went though all kinds of tests and could find nothing wrong. After trying different foods, including prescription, I’ve discovered she can’t eat dry food. As long as she eats canned food, she’s OK. I figure it must be some kind of preservative on the dry food that she just can’t tolerate. She gets baby carrots for treats and chews on nylabones and the vet said her teeth will be fine.

She’s been eating the canned Nutro Limited Ingred Lamb & Rice and now I’m hearing some scary things about them, so I’m a little worried. I came here to see what I could find out. Does anyone know anything about this?

[Judy]

Hi,

Does anybody have recommendations on what meat grinder I can purchase to grind chicken bones? I tried the Waring Pro MG105 and I fed into it a few chicken wings and immediately the machine clogged up even with the biggest plate settings. It looks like the grinder didn’t like the skin and everything just turned into a big bloody mush. I’m returning the grinder back to the store and I don’t know what to get next or where to buy a decent meat grinder. I can only find meat grinders online or at stores like Bed Bath and Beyond (which only had 1 model) and Sears, Walmart. Any stores anyone can recommend? I didn’t want to go through the hassle of return shipping if the meat grinder doesn’t perform to what I need. Also, I’m looking for something somewhat affordable. Please share any knowledge of experience you have. Thank you.

[shelties mom]

HDM,

If I use whole chicken with bones /or thighs with bones with chicken feet, then is it balanced?

[DieselJunki]

My brothers dog chipped her tooth on a nylabone. I wouldn’t give them to my dog ever. But like HDM says they can choke on anything.

I give bully sticks, pigs ears, and the Mercola dental sticks for puppies and senior dogs (makes his breath smell good and it isn’t made of plastic like those nylabones are or whatever junk material they are made of, sorry but I really do dislike them). However my dog is a gulper and hardly chews anything once it’s small enough to fit in his mouth so he must be supervised at all times with his chews. When they get to small I take them and toss them away.

My puppy gets bored with his chews so I try to change it up and find new things to feed. When I first gave him the Mercola dental sticks he chewed until it was time to take it away. But his interest in them faded as time went on. Same with the bully stick, he chewed on the ends of it for awhile then got bored with it. Pigs ears got boring too because he’ll chew for a bit then leave it be.

[theBCnut]

Funny that you mention Nylabones. That is the only thing my dogs have ever choked on. One of my GSDs bit off a chunk and before I could get it away, he swallowed it and began to choke. He couldn’t get it back up and he passed out. At that time, I literally reached down his throat and dislodged it. He couldn’t eat for a couple days after that due to a raw throat, but after that he was fine. He was never allowed another nylabone.

[Anonymous]

Nylabones are a safe treat for dogs that are heavy chewers.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cate –

I agree, some supplements are harmful in excess. However, glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid are very safe supplements. They can be consumed at many times the daily dose with no ill effects. The amounts in food are very low with most having only around 400 mg. glucosamine per kilogram of food – this equates to a mere 30 or so mg. per cup (just to give you an idea – a 50 lb. dog would have to eat over 30 cups of dog food a day just to get a maintenance dose of glucosamine). Dogs that are eating a natural diet rich in bones, cartilage and sinew would naturally be consuming these nutrients in very high levels (higher than anything in dry dog food). I’ve never heard of a dog “overdosing” on GAG’s.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DieselJunki –

Glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) are important constituents of cartilage and help to maintain joint function. GAG’s and GAG precursors would include glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid. MSM, which is an organic form of the essential mineral sulfur, can be beneficial for joints as well due to the fact that connective tissues require sulfur for maintenance. Cetyl Myristoleate is a supplement that’s recently gained popularity as a joint supplement and has been shown to lubricate joints and maintain function. Whole food supplements that are rich in GAGs are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, shark cartilage and eggshell membrane. Raw meaty bones are rich in GAGs as well – with trachea, poultry feet and gullet probably being the richest sources. I feel that large/giant breed dogs that are not fed a diet including raw meaty bones on a daily basis should be started on a joint maintenance supplement at a year old (until the dog is a senior or starts to exhibit joint issues the supplement can be given at half the recommended dose). When it comes to joint supplements if you buy supplements made for humans they will be MUCH cheaper per dose. The ingredients used in human supplements are the same as those used in dog supplements so there’s no reason human supplements can’t be used (they’re probably higher quality as well). For a young dog with no joint issues there’s no reason to supplement with every beneficial ingredient under the sun – a capsule of green lipped mussel, shark cartilage, sea cucumber or eggshell membrane or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement will give enough maintenance support to a young dog free of joint issues. For older dogs or dogs that are exhibiting symptoms of arthritis natural anti-inflammatories such as white willow, yucca, boswellia, turmeric/curcumin, tart cherry and supplemental omega 3’s can be beneficial to give in addition to a joint maintenance supplement.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumim20 –

Krill oil is great because it’s low in contaminants and contains a very potent naturally occuring antioxidant called astaxanthin. If the food already has added omega 3’s (fish oil) use the krill oil sparingly because, yes, you can give your dog too much of a good thing. Here’s a dosage chart for fish/krill oil:

-250 mg. daily for toy breeds and cats (1 – 14 lbs.)
-500 mg. daily for small dogs (15 – 29 lbs.)
-1,000 mg. daily for medium dogs (30 – 49 lbs.)
-1,500 mg. daily for large dogs (50 – 79 lbs.)
-2,000 mg. daily for dogs 80+ lbs.

When your dog is on a raw diet that includes bones and cartilage there won’t be as much of a need for a joint supplement because bones/cartilage are full of naturally occurring glucosamine and chondroitin. If you have a senior dog or a dog with an orthopedic problem, however, a supplement may still be necessary. After heavy activity my senior gets a few capsules of Wysong’s Arthegic (my favorite joint supplement). It’s marketed as a human supplement but great for dogs too. Wysong even includes a dosage chart for dogs on their website. It contains boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate.

I personally vaccinate my dogs as puppies (parvo/distemper at 8 weeks, 11 weeks, 14 weeks and a rabies at 16 weeks) and then I vaccinate 1 year after their last puppy booster. I don’t vaccinate again other than rabies every 3 years to comply with law. This is something you need to research yourself and decide what you are comfortable doing with your dog. Some people vaccinate every year, some every 3 years, some like I do, some only do puppy shots and others don’t vaccinate at all. Check out healthypets.mercola.com- Dr. Becker has some great information and videos on vaccinating.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Chicken feet are great to feed, they’re the perfect size for smaller dogs too. Chicken feet are very rich in glucosamine and chondroitin so they help keep the joints healthy.

[shelties mom]

Are chicken feet good to feed as part of their diet? My dogs are 15 lbs each and turkey necks are too big for them.

[weimlove]

Hi everyone, what recreational bones do you give that won’t break teeth?

[mydogisme]

Thanks! pugmomsandy!

[pugmomsandy]

weimlove,

Search for MBM (Martin Brower) or Bassham.

[pugmomsandy]

mydogisme,

My small dogs love gnawing on beef rib bones. They don’t eat them. They do eat pork ribs and lamb ribs though. You can trim some of the meat off if you think you need to.