[william M]

Hi Nadia,
without sounding too condescending to many of the other comments out here in regards to this subject, I would like you to consider just one piece of advice. Common sense rules the day. You have a wolf descendant. I know it’s playful and happy and very loving, but it’s DNA doesnt respond to feelings, it operates on a genetic map. That said, making the food is a great way to see significant health benefits in your pet.
I have had 47 different dogs in my 55 years of life. All have been mid to large dog breeds and all but a very few have been small lap type animals. With that also came a need for them to do what they did best…work. Whether that was herding, hunting or retrieving. Since I was a kid we had always maintained a crock pot for our dogs.
You dont have to spend an exorbitant amount either. Watch safeway, or your favorite grocery store for the managers deals. Safeway always has chicken leg quarters or whole chickens on sale when they are too close to pull date for 30% to 50% off.That means the chicken is less than a dollar a pound and in many cases even less. If you have a walmart superstore close by, they have frozen 10 pound bags of leg quarters for 5.99 per bag. Thats around 60 cents a pound….thats fantastic. I can get one bag into the 6.5 quart crock pot. when its done I peel it from the bone and bag it. Other times I just leave it and let the dogs go for it. Mine have learned to eat the bone so they get the benefit of the marrow and calcium and nutrient in the bone. Other times I will cook the bones for one more day and then throw them in the blender, you get a milky brown meal that you can add to a good kibble for a really high protein and calcium rich treat. You can also find pork and beef cheap as well. Never hurts to hook up with a local butcher to obtain the afal(that the intestinal and organ meat). You can usually get the tendon and connective bits from legs and bone for free or very cheap. adding in potatoe , apple , pear carrot is acceptable. Keep in mind anything dog will gnaw on in a yard (food wise) generally will work in their food. Dogs eat grass for two reasons, to settle their stomach or to get water. In other words, be creative and let the critter have the real deal.

[Jerry R]

And draining grease isn’t necessary if you don’t cook it in the first place. You’re just removing too many nutrients just like the heat process of all kibbles do. Raw meat and bones including organs. I’ll never go back to commercial dog food of any kind. My dachshund has never been healthier and no more diarrhea.
I’m glad I went prey after a problem of him not caring for any dog food I bought him. Maybe they know what’s best for them.

[Jerry R]

Ground egg shells from commercial eggs also contain pesticides.
I’ve gone to pretty much all prey. I do occasionally mix fresh veggies but my dachshund doesn’t much care for them. Fruits seem to go right thru him if I can even get him to eat any so I much bother.
Given the right amounts of organ meat they really aren’t critical anyway.
Chicken feet are great for joint health and teeth cleaning. So are wings, necks.
I’m still getting into the groove so to speak but for the most part, I trust his judgement too. If he turns his nose up and walks away…yeah he’s a spoiled brat!
Grinding chicken and turkey bones is totally unnecessary. Except maybe turkey drumsticks. They’re too hard.
My boy chews most poultry bones right up and he’s a 17lb. Dachshund.

[william M]

The controversy isnt one. Kind of like my 78 year old vet. He’s convinced raw is terrible, chicken bones deadly and most other bones and basic meats a waste of money and time , and would love to see my hounds on some science diet scam. I’ll pose to all for you the same question I do to him….When have you found a dead coyote or wolf with a chicken bone in their throat? Same goes for every other wild carnivore eating my chickens from skunk and coons to weasels and fishers. Time to pull the collective head out of our dark holes and realize, your DOG is a canis Lupus. That means wolf from the get go, or wild dog. they do well with raw as well as cooked meats. They love the awful (body cavity parts especially liver, kidney, lungs, heart etc.) and all the connective sinew on the bones and joints. Does their teeth and general oral health immense good.
All this said, let me just qualify my “EXPERT STATUS” as it were. I have raised and managed over 1200 head of beef cattle for several years for market, Had ranches and farms with EVERYTHING from waterfowl to ginnies. I am 55 and have had various breeds of dog from cockapoo’s to almost every breed and crossbreed of hound from germans to pointer to my latest and likely most clearly bred WALKER coon. All have been working hounds i.e. hunting or herding. I have always maintained one large crockpot for my dogs. I will say I have found one minor issue with my dogs and raw meats, and it’s the same for all wild critters….they get a taste for the raw meat of whatever they are eating. So if your raising chickens, best not to give too much raw chicken unless your discipline style with your dogs far exceeds their need to eat chicken. Just saying. Natural law dictates your dogs DNA drive to hunt, kill or just the desire to sniff and retrieve. Play up those traits based on the breed you got and they will be happy, healthy and live (in some cases) longer than you may think. End note… I have had dogs I would use to move cattle for miles with, or hunt for days with, but they were the worse house pets! And every one of them thought they were a lap dog when in the house! Hopes this helps a few on the fence about raw or cooked or processed foods. We use taste of the wild dry kibble as their 24/7 go to if they are peckish. They get a meat and some potatoe or squash mixed “wet or real food” once a day. I make my own with the crock pot and it varies from week to week from chicken to rabbit to beef and pork…..with the occasional venison or elk thrown in as a treat with livers, kidneys and heart and gizzard thrown in. Always good to check with the local stores to pick up all these items when they are close to pull dates and you can get them for up to 50% off. Wallmart carries 10lb frozen leg quarters fo 5.95 per bag. Thats .59 cents per pound for dark meat chicken….my dogs love it and between the two it serves them for a week. Hope all this helps.

[Patricia A]

Not sure about kibble but I know raw or freeze dried Primal is all life stages. Their website lets you put in quick info and calculates approx. how many nuggets to feed for puppy of a certain age. https://primalpetfoods.com/pages/feeding-calculator
PUPPIES

In the wild, when puppies reach 4-5 weeks of age, the mother dog will naturally begin to regurgitate some of her raw foods for her puppies to consume. Thus, when domestically reared puppies reach approximately 4-5 weeks of age, you can begin introducing them to Primal Canine Formulas. Puppies should be fed one to two small (1-2 teaspoons) raw-food meals daily in conjunction with either the milk they consume from nursing and/or other foods you may be supplementing. Puppies should always be fed from separate bowls, as competitive feeding can promote overeating and indigestion. Gradually increase the quantity of Primal Canine Formulas foods every 2-3 days until 8 weeks of age, when the puppies are consuming two tablespoons of Primal Canine Formulas twice daily. At this point (8 weeks), the puppies should be fully weaned and can be fed a diet solely of Primal Canine Formulas and raw meaty bones. Puppies 8 weeks of age and older should be fed approximately 4-8% of their body weight daily in Primal Canine Formulas. Factors such as breed, overall health and level of activity play a part in the necessary feeding quantities of all puppies. Please be sure to monitor your puppy’s dietary needs and adjust the feeding quantities accordingly.

[Patricia A]

Mona the only difference in the puppy Stella’s freeze dried is the size which has smaller patties. So the feeding guideline on back of bag is suggestive amounts of patties to feed for poundage of puppy. I accidentally purchased the puppy bag of freeze dried once. I called and asked if it would be okay to feed my adult dog and they assured me that the ingredients are the same as in adult formulas. Just smaller so I would have to give more for the calories she needed. Hope this helps. I also got mine used to Primal freeze dried which they also do very well with. hope this helps.

I also want to add that ALL I believe of Stella’s Chewy’s freeze dried is Hpp processed. Companies that make raw food for pets primarily use two methods to insure the safety of their products. … Raw pet food maker Stella & Chewy’s uses both high pressure pasteurization (HPP) and UV technology to deliver a pathogen-free finished product. The company has patented their system.
Primal freeze dired also uses hpp in some of their flavors. I stick to the turkey/sardine and duck.Primal will be implementing High-Pressure Processing (HPP) into our product line beginning the week of June 6th, 2011 for poultry products only. Poultry products utilizing HPP will be designated by a code date of 070812 or later. Red meat products will not be utilizing HPP. Below is a complete list of products utilizing HPP, as well as non-HPP products.
HPP Products
Canine Formulas: Chicken, Duck, Pheasant, Quail, Turkey & Sardine
Feline Formulas: Chicken & Salmon, Duck, Pheasant, Quail, Turkey
Mixes and Grinds: Chicken, Turkey
All Raw Meaty Bones: Chicken Backs, Chicken Necks, Chicken Wings, Turkey Necks
Non-HPP Products
Canine Formulas: Beef, Lamb, Pork, Rabbit, Venison
Feline Formulas: Beef & Salmon, Pork, Rabbit, Venison
Mixes and Grinds: Beef, Lamb, Pork, Sardine
Raw Goat Milk
Bone Broth: All Bone Broth
Recreational Bones: All Recreational Bones
Primal Treats: All Primal Treats
https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/freeze-dried-raw-dinners/patties/beef-salmon-puppy

• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Which Primal Pet Foods products utilize HPP?
Modified on: Tue, 11 Sep, 2018 at 3:09 PM

Primal will be implementing High-Pressure Processing (HPP) into our product line beginning the week of June 6th, 2011 for poultry products only. Poultry products utilizing HPP will be designated by a code date of 070812 or later. Red meat products will not be utilizing HPP. Below is a complete list of products utilizing HPP, as well as non-HPP products.

HPP Products
Canine Formulas: Chicken, Duck, Pheasant, Quail, Turkey & Sardine
Feline Formulas: Chicken & Salmon, Duck, Pheasant, Quail, Turkey
Mixes and Grinds: Chicken, Turkey
All Raw Meaty Bones: Chicken Backs, Chicken Necks, Chicken Wings, Turkey Necks

Non-HPP Products
Canine Formulas: Beef, Lamb, Pork, Rabbit, Venison
Feline Formulas: Beef & Salmon, Pork, Rabbit, Venison
Mixes and Grinds: Beef, Lamb, Pork, Sardine
Raw Goat Milk
Bone Broth: All Bone Broth
Recreational Bones: All Recreational Bones
Primal Treats: All Primal Treats
Supporters of HPP claim the process leads to…

A safer product. It’s been shown that the HPP process is effective at eliminating most food-borne germs such as Salmonella, E. coli, and Listeria with little change in the nutritional value of the end product.2

A fresher product. HPP destroys the microorganisms that cause spoilage which, in turn, increases the shelf life of the product.2

[Patricia A]

My two chihuahuas’ love bully sticks and Himalayan yak bones . https://www.pawstruck.com/collections/bully-sticks-for-dogs?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Hype_Video&fbclid=IwAR1CodaiglSX5tLWpvAReF0fJhEpgXRHjMSwzsfUPky6vBzuuV-eDB9DT1U

[Cory E]

Hi there,

For one, you shouldn’t give your dog raw food or bone. Here’s why: https://goldenretrieverlove.com/can-dogs-eat-steak/. In a nutshell, raw food may contain salmonelly, and E-coli.

Secondly, you should be careful and avoid giving him raw bone or any kind of bone for that matter. Bones are a choking hazard to dogs despite the perception that dogs are keen on eating bones.

I would suggest to ask the vet the best diet plan for your dog, and how much meat/steak he should have per week.

[Susan]

Hi Suraj,
a pocket size Bully is small dog, is he active?? I would be feeding him a small breed PUPPY formula.
I have an English Staffordshire Bull Terrier (Staffy) he has a body of a bully all muscle & he’s only 30cm high..

Normally small breeds are more active then large breed dogs & small breeds use up more energy..
Large Breed adult formulas are normally lower in fat & lower fiber for a large breed bowel as they are more prone to Bloat then a small breed is, my boy has IBD & I feed Patch Large Breed formulas they seem to help with his IBD
I rotate his kibbles & he eats “Wellness Core large Breed Adult” kibble, its lower in fat, DHA, Glucosamine & Chondroitin is higher for large breed joints & bones…
also start adding 10% fresh ingredients to his diet or use a training treats & make sure you socialize your new pup.. also Goats milk is very healthy & good for keeping their stomach healthy

[Jan S]

Raw feeding is an excellent way to feed your dog. Ground up chicken thighs are easy to serve in a dish and provide all the vitamins and mineral supplements needed except for one amino acid. If you grind up the chicken thighs there is really no mess. You should read the book “Feed your Dog a bone” by Dr. Ian Billinghurst. He talks about the benefits of raw feeding. I purchased a grinder and find it super easy and cheap to feed my dogs. I also include other types of foods in their raw food i.e., vegetables, dairy, organ meat, grains, legumes and even table scraps. Trying to achieve balance in every meal is ridiculous. You want to achieve balance over a period of time by having your dogs eat a variety of foods. With most of their meals consisting of raw meaty bones. I have chihuahuas. My five pounders have trouble chewing bones, so I grind up their meals. My two larger chihuahuas can eat raw chicken thighs and the bones like popsicles. So it depends on the kind of dog you have.

[anonymous]

@ Alice B

Thanks for the feedback.
Glad your dogs are doing well and that you are listening to your vet.
You may enjoy this book that will be available soon “Placebos for Pets?: The Truth About Alternative Medicine in Animals”
/forums/topic/cellbio-another-dubious-lab-test-from-hemopet-and-dr-jean-dodds/#post-146014

PS: Large breed dogs are just as susceptible to GI problems/obstructions/blockage as small breed dogs due to raw diets/bones.
Your vet will confirm.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by anonymous.

[haleycookie]

Ideally a raw fed dog will poop maybe once a day and it will be very small. I follow a working raw fed gsd on insta and he poops once a day and it’s about the size of a baseball maybe smaller. As opposed to kibble fed dogs who poop bulky poops twice sometimes three times or more a day. “Normal” poop for a dog should be small, dark in color, and segmented. The dog should have no issues passing it. If they are constipated and straining then bone content could be too high which in a raw diet could be corrected by adding more organ meat. Just as soft poos can be combated with more bone.
Bone is natural for a dog to eat. Obviously don’t feed weight bearing bones as they can crack teeth or split or shatter and cause obstructions. Bone ground up or whole bones like necks, backs, or non weight bearing bones are ideal.

[haleycookie]

It’s unlikely your pup will be large breed. Try to stick with meat based foods, some of my favorites are, merrick back country, canidae ancestral, orijen, instinct raw boost, and essence dog food. All of these foods are going to be made up of mostly meat. They all (to my knowledge) employ vet nutritionalist to formulate their foods as well.
I’d also recommend adding canned foods, dehydrated raw, frozen raw, and other topper type foods.
Fresh pet is actually pretty good quality. It is much more fresh and meat based than kibbled foods. Kibble should ideally be a base and other types of less processed foods should make up the rest.
Nature’s variety makes quality canned foods, frozen raw, and freeze dried toppers in a multitude of flavors, I would check those out, merrick has a wide variety of canned options for picky dogs. Tiki dog food also have very popular canned foods for picky dogs. Also the brand weruva has great canned foods too. You can add bone broths as well. Solid gold has a variety of those as well as other brands, you can also just boiling chicken (or bones) and use the broth off that. Cooked egg, plain kefir, and raw goats milk are nutritionally dense as well.
Consider rotational feeding, this helps prevent allergies, pickiness in dogs, and it also helps in case the food u feed is recalled or discontinued. Rotational feeding just helps expand their diet and if u ever have to change for an emergency you will be prepared to do so. If u do decide to try rotational feeding try to start slow. Get the pup on one food for awhile then slowly switch over the course of a couple weeks. Eventually u will have no issues switching with no transitional period at all.

[anonymous]

Yup, supervise all you want, it doesn’t prevent bad stuff from happening.
Broken teeth/infection, may not notice it right away. Bowel obstruction that doesn’t show up till a few days later, yes, finely ground up bone can cause this.

/forums/topic/antlers-a-safe-alternative-to-bones/#post-98128

[Amara H]

Rapid breaths per minute (72 breaths per minute)

I have a two year old labradoodle that is 40 lb.
I have been giving him Earth Animal No Hide Pork Chews (small) in the evening for over a year. I noticed every night at bedtime he would go into a labored and rapid breath rhythm. This concerned me so much that I took him into the Veternarian about it a couple of times. I videoed his rapid breathes per minute (about 72 breaths per minute) and showed it to his Veterinarian. She was concerned when she saw the video. She said it could be a heart issue, pain or some type of discomfort but we needed to get to the bottom of it because this is not normal!

We started with an elimination diet…

First I removed the supplements that I give him with his food every p.m., and there was no change.

I changed his food which is high quality raw food (Small Batch) No change from that either.

Honestly, it never occurred to me it could be these no hide bones! The very first night he didn’t have one of these bones he maintained a normal breaths per minute breath rate and fell asleep peacefully.

That made me do a search about this product and this is how I found this site and post. I’ll be sure to advise my Veternarian about this and let everyone I know about my/his experience with this product.

I have no idea what is in “no hides” that could cause such a reaction in him but going forward I WILL NOT give him this product again.

[Susan]

Hi Whiskey D,

Please make appointment with a Holistic Vet or I contacted a Animal Nutritionist, DO NOT ADD calcium you need someone who will balance diet for your pup.
Your dog is probably getting enough calcium if he’s eating bone in diet??

“Excess Calcium Isn’t Good for Dogs. … Because of this, some owners feel their dog or puppy – particularly if he is a large breed – should be given extra calcium. But too much calcium can have the opposite effect: excess calcium can slow bone and cartilage development, even stunt growth.”

Rodney Habib is studying & doing his degree, his large breed white dog “Sammy” is nilly 18yrs old, all 3 of his dogs are all feed balance raw diets… Rodney has more brains then the negative people on DFA who always post negative post about him & other people all the time..

Do your research, join Raw feeding groups – “The Possible Canine” Catherine Lane, Dr Judy Morgan- Pup Loaf, Lew Olson – “K-9 Natural” group – Dr Laurie Coger f/b page..
Steve Brown is really good to follow, he recommends adding { 1-2 Mussels, 1 tablespoon Salmon & a pinch of Kelp} daily to balance a dogs diet…… Tin Salmon has bones, drain water, mash bones thru the salmon & put in air tight container put in fridge look for the lowest salt/sodium % on can..

Dr Karen Becker has a few good books with balanced raw recipes – msg her on her F/B page, she was releasing a new book last year.

Feed healthy whole foods, veggies, fruit, “Sardines” are VERY healthy & help balance a dogs diet, also “Mussels” very healthy both foods have natural calcium, vitamins/minerals, chicken frames are nice soft bone, chicken drumsticks, turkey legs, turkey necks… look for Wholesalers who sell to the supermarkets & Butcher shops that’s what we do in Australia we buy from the wholesalers….its fresh then you freeze in sections…

[crazy4cats]

What breed is your pup? How big will it get?

Feeding a large breed puppy the correct amount of calcium is of the utmost importance while they are growing. You only get one shot at those growing bones and joints, it has to be right! They are very prone to hip dysplasia and elbow issues if not fed correctly.

For either small or large breed puppy, I would definitely get in touch with a board-certified veterinary nutritionist to help you formulate a raw food. There are some that will work with you.

Rodney Habib does not have the credentials to formulate a complete and balanced diet. Especially, for a large breed puppy.

[Whiskey D]

Hi,

New dog owner and raw feeder. I followed rodney habib’s guide (youtube – https://youtu.be/7P85BMCCboI) on how to make a balanced meal, but I fear our dog is not getting enough calcium because he has started to occasionally limp. This might be from a calcium deficiency.

He said not to put egg shells for puppies in the mix. My question is, I can not find raw meaty bones in my super markets (except for chicken drumsticks). How much calcium powder should I add to the diet so he has his calcium intake.

The puppy is 3 months old currently.

[Jaimie K]

Patricia A – I was very confused too. I was a veterinary technician for many years but the vet I was seeing for this issue didn’t know that. I questioned the antibiotic when the results were negative and they kind of blew me off with a generic answer. I do have a better vet now, but we haven’t started tackling the GI issues since for the moment we’re ok.

I’m inclined to agree it was the kibble causing the issues. However the original incident came a day after she ate garlicky pizza crust, pasta, hot dogs, salami, and who knows what other human food, plus tons of dog treats, bones/chews, and a raw dog food she had never had before – all while staying with my dad and step-mom while I was out of town. I wondered if that bad weekend didn’t cause some pancreatitis.

She has been on the prescription diet (Hills i/d) for at least 4 months and we have not had any other issues. I’m not a fan of the prescription diets AT ALL, and don’t want her on it long term, but have resigned to leave her on this diet for 6 months as a “reset”. I have tried to wean her off a few times with no luck. I will definitely look into the Stella & Chewy’s – I’ve heard all positive things.

[anonymous]

I tried raw food for my dogs as recommended by an online homeopathic vet.

Within a month or two we were at the emergency vet with GI upset/rule out blockage. More than one visit.

All kinds of sludge noted via x-ray in the colon. Also vet visits for broken teeth due to “raw meaty bones”.

Not for me

PS: I had an expensive meat grinder (went to the Goodwill) chicken, bones , supplements”

• This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by anonymous.

[joanne l]

Hi Michael thanks for letting us know. I won’t feed it. Some fish bones are soft so that you can smash them with your fingers, but if they are sharp throw it out. I give my dog human grade salmon in the can, the one in the supermarket people eat and they have bones but they are soft to smash up and he eats it. But who knows what the heck they put in dog food cans.

[Michael R]

I purchased Natural Balance 2.75 oz. Whitefish & Sweet Potatoe Formula in Broth to use as a topper on my dogs Natural Balance Kibble. I purchased 6 containers at my local PETCO. So far three of the containers have long pointy fish bones in them. I called the 800 number associated with Natural Balance customer service and advised them yesterday. The batch expires 3/18/21, They have the letters DFS and then numbers 9078455 and letters RP047. The representative said this food is hand shredded and has chunks of fish in it and they could have missed some bones. She was supposed to notify their corporate offices. You can’t miss the bones!! Thank God I saw them. I’m going to PETCO now to also advise them.
If this isn’t the correct forum to share this information then please repost it correctly.

[joanne l]

I also agree that meat and bones are the best diet for a dog, however some of us can not afford to feed it solely especially when some own big dogs. And yes corn and wheat are protein but pea protein contains 2 times the amount more than corn. We are just discussing how grain free contains a lot more protein without a lot more meat. Even the food made with corn and wheat are not extremely high in the protein % on the bag. Don’t get me wrong your feedback is very valid but not affordably for some.

[Valarie I]

I see hard white fish bones in my dogs food. Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Fish (small breed) They are not soft they are like hard plastic. Is this healthy???

[Susan]

Hi,
Is Nature’s Variety raw?? When raw diet is too high in bone this can cause constipation..
My boy has IBD mainly stomach & he does really well on Wellness Core, Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato, Canidae Pure Meadow Senior & Canidae Pure Wild kibbles…
Actually dogs need less fiber or no fiber, Patches vet told me, a dogs digestive tract is short made to digest a raw meat diet..

If your looking for a kibble look at “Canidae Pure Meadow Senior” & “Wellness Core Senior” kibbles they both are high meat protein, low in carbs & the Canidae Pure Meadow formula is lower in fat 10.8% max & is very high in Omega oils for ageing joints & bones..

[lynne l]

Hi,

My 15 year old 50 lb. mutt has just been diagnosed with kidney disease which I understand is common in older dogs. I switched to HILLS PRESCRIPTION DIET FOR KIDNEYS. Is this any better than any other low protein diet?

Does anyone have any good homemade recipes for low protein diets? I used to feed rice or barley mixed with a good dry food; they thrived on this. Also, I pressure cooked chicken to where the bones squash really soft and mix ed with rice or barley? Anyone have a clue how much protein that might contain? I know as a meat-based protein, it’s probably higher than plant based diets. Any tips on low protein plant proteins I could use instead of chicken? Thanks, Lynne

llohmeier@cableone.net

[joanne l]

Please don’t feed the dream bones!! I had a very bad experience with them. When my dog was 2 years old I gave him one and he had diarrhea and pooping blood. I stopped the dream bones and thank God he was fine. I don’t recommend any rawhide or chews that is just my opinion. Also no pig ears either.

[Diane J]

Help. I need concrete information from someone experienced with switching 8 week old kibble-weaned puppies to raw feeding successfully.

I’m an experienced raw feeder, having fed 7 dogs raw over the past 16 years, but I’ve only switched adult rescues to raw feeding. On Sunday, my husband and I bought a purebred GSD puppy and on Monday we switched him to raw following my choices of all of the recommendations for doing so I’d read, some of which were very contradictory of each other.

He has not done well with chewing up the bones. I initially tried a chicken back cut into small pieces and mashing the bones with a meat tenderizer a little to attempt to soften them. Then I switched to chicken necks, but he swallowed some of those whole, and does that a bit with smaller pieces of it too, after minimal chewing.

He had diarrhea followed by constipation and developing a temporary anorexia. He’s been eating softer cooked food today, but didn’t eat much when I tried again with raw. My husband and I are lost and confused and need help from someone experienced in switching 8 week old kibble-weaned puppies to raw food.

Thank you in advance,
~Diane

[Patricia A]

FDA Update to DCM Investigation clarifies a few things

Pet owners have – previous to this June 2019 FDA update – been told far too many times that the cases of DCM were directly linked to boutique brands of pet food. Thanks to this FDA update we know that information wasn’t very accurate. The U.S. leaders in pet food sales are Mars, Purina, General Mills, Smuckers and Diamond; all listed with high numbers of FDA DCM reports.

Pet owners have also been repeatedly told – previous to this June 2019 FDA update – that exotic protein ingredients were directly linked to cases of DCM. This update proves that information wasn’t very accurate either. The FDA provides this information on protein types linked to DCM cases:

What would have been a proper investigation by FDA (but hasn’t been discussed thus far), is determination of the quality of the Chicken, Lamb, Salmon and so on ingredients of each pet food.

Example: when “Chicken” is listed on a pet food label ingredient panel – the ingredient can be USDA inspected and passed chicken, USDA inspected and condemned chicken, whole chicken, chicken bones (no meat), chicken skin (no meat) and/or a slew of other types of chicken.

Also, the FDA did not clarify if in the above chart “Chicken” or “Lamb” is chicken or chicken meal or lamb or lamb meal which have quality variations as well.

It would be very telling information for pet owners to learn the quality of the animal protein ingredients used in the pet foods reported to FDA. (FDA did not allow us – Association for Truth in Pet Food – to participate in their investigation as they did Pet Food Institute. We certainly would have asked for that investigation if they would have allowed us.)

The FDA also released data of common ingredients used in the pet foods linked to DCM reported to the Agency.

Another interesting perspective that FDA failed to determine (or at least failed to provide pet owners) would have been to determine what percentage of each of these diets were peas or lentils or potatoes (or the combination). Such as, were some of the reported brands using 30% peas and lentils, 40%, 50%? This again would be very telling information that would benefit pet owners (though clearly it would not be beneficial to manufacturers for pet owners to know).

FDA also provided an update to the types of pet foods involved.

Dry/kibble pet foods remain the leading style of pet foods linked to DCM.

FDA mentioned in numerous places of their update how they continue to work with industry. As reminder, we have been provided evidence that the FDA was working with industry long before they even notified pet owners of their investigation.

While the June 2019 update is information and is of value, it remains fact that more than 1 year into this investigation pet owners are left with little assistance to protect their pets. While we wait for answers, FDA continues to allow pet food to violate federal law, continues to allow waste to be disposed of into pet food with no warning or disclosure to pet owners, continues to facilitate a means for AAFCO to own the legal definitions and regulations of pet food keeping pet owners in the dark about their pet food purchases.

• This topic was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Patricia A.

[Jana L]

I use this food all the time. I have fed the red and the blue to my dogs and cats – it’s especially nice for the cats since they don’t always go for bones and organ meat as enthusiastically as the dogs.
These blends can also be cooked – it probably seems like heresy to most raw feeders, but I do cook for my dogs! They get a small portion of cooked vegetables with their meals as well, and raw eggs from my own hens. We’ve been doing this for nearly two years now, and I’m very happy with their health. Nice coats, active, bright, good weight.

[Owen J]

Low-fat beef first and second grade – a good solution for meat diet. Mutton and rabbit meat, taboo on pork. Well absorbed by most dogs, chicken, turkey and offal. Meat is not crushed, and cut into pieces of medium size. The fish menu is best made up of the gifts of the seas and oceans, they have fewer bones, and besides, there are no parasites in frozen fish.

Well digested by animals and are a source of nutrients – proteins, trace elements – dairy products, especially cottage cheese. Taboo on too fatty foods, but they should not be completely fat free.

https://herepup.com/best-dog-food-for-goldendoodles/

[haleycookie]

I would do the wellness. Highest meat content for a large breed food I’ve found. Has correct calcium ratio as well. Dogs are carnivores. Add as much less processed things into the diet as u can (less than 15% unless it’s formulated for large breeds) Bone brother, canned food, freeze dried toppers. Etc.
if you’re interested in a vet nutritionalists being on staff, natures variety and candiae both employ one and make quality products.
I would also keep from over feeding, should be able to feel ribs under the skin, nice abdominal tuck. And don’t spay or neuter until two years so the growth plates and bones can mature correctly.
I’m also assuming the breeder is a quality one and has had genetic testing etc. otherwise poor genes may cause problems regardless of what u do.

[Heather M]

So for the last 8 months or so my dog eats 2-3 of the no hide salmon chews per week. Within the last 6 months she’s gotten sick at least 5 times where she is not acting like herself. She won’t jump off the bed or the couch on her own which she normally does and she seems to be in too much pain to even get herself into her bed. She also starts getting the shakes. I posted about this in a Facebook post and many people suggested it was the earth animal chews making her sick. There has been no changes in her diet other than the no hide chews and I’ve taken her to the vet several times and she has no health issues and they can never figure out what’s wrong with her. I give her activated charcoal and apple cider baths and she’s usually better within a day or so. I just emailed earth animal today and am thinking about calling them tomorrow. I truly feel it’s the bones making her sick. I feel so disappointed that I trusted this company and am now finding all this info about them

[joanne l]

Well put, I also agree about the fiber, especially rice bran!! If my dog eats a food with rice bran his stools are terrible. I steer clear of that ingredient. Also, yes dogs poop 3 times as much with a high fiber and that is not good. I agree totally. Some of these companies have like 6 to 8 % fiber and that is way too much for us. I go with 3 to 4% for maximum. Too much stool out put more lost nutrients. Like you said.

I just read about wolves, how they get their fiber. I couldn’t believe it, but they get their fiber from fur and feathers. This is true I will try to post the articles. I checked a few and all said the same. They said, “wolves eat bones with fur on them and there are two reasons fiber and it protects their stomachs from sharp bones. Very interesting. They also eat grass to purge an upset stomach. It is so interesting how natural provides them with everything they need. So wolves don’t eat fiber foods that dog food contains. We would say yuck to feathers and fur, but it is fiber and protection to the wolf.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by joanne l.

[anonymous]

Per the search engine. /forums/topic/antlers-a-safe-alternative-to-bones/#post-98128

[Susan]

Hi Mary,
Dogs diet should be balanced, it doesn’t have to be perfectly balanced, start buying tin/can Salmon, tin/can Sardines in Spring water look for the brands with the lowest Sodium/salt %, in the tin Salmon you’ll see bones leave them they just crush up mix thru, start adding 2 spoons of the salmon per meal, veggies & fruit must be peeled, de seed, cut up the veggies/fruit then put thru a blender & blend till they’re nilly a pulp, then I was adding 1 spoon of the veggie/fruit mix to ice cube trays then cover with cling wrap & freeze. Add 2 spoons/cubs per meal, just thaw the veggies/fruit ice cube take out night before put in fridge for next day, buy Omega 3,6,9 oil add 2 squirts per meal for their Omega fatty acids.

Join a few raw feeding face Book groups, what country do you live? in Australia we have Supplements called
“Natural Animal Solutions (NAS) Digestavite Plus Powder” Omega 3,6,9, oil, I was adding 1 teaspoon NAS Digestavite powder + Omega oil only need 1 add to 1 of Patches daily meals to balance his diet cause he cant eat bone or organ meat causes diarrhea.. He has IBD..
Your dogs especially the older dog needs Omega 3 in diet, Glucosamine & Chondroitin for joints & bones..

Follow Dr Judy Morgan DVM on her face book page
https://www.facebook.com/JudyMorganDVM/

Judy has very easy to make balanced raw & cooked diets,
Here’s a few videos just scroll down, her pup loaf is easy to make.. Judy sell supplements look up top “Shop”
Judy has a new book called “Ying & Yang” Nutrition for dogs.
https://www.drjudymorgan.com/category/videos/

[haleycookie]

I’d prob go down to 2% until you can feel ribs again. She is pretty much an adult at this point. She may fill out a tad more. When you have her spayed ask the vet to check to see if she has anything solid feeling in her gut to make sure no instructions have occurred. Be sure the only bones you’re feeding are soft non weight bearing bones. I know some people fast one day a week to let their dogs digestive system empty and reset. You may try that. Is she not eating anything at all for days at a time?? If so I’d be concerned about something else going on. If she’s just eating less I would lessen her food amount.

[haleycookie]

The raw ratio to follow is 80/10/5/5. 80% muscle meat, 10% soft bone, 5% liver, 5% other secretory organ. Just cooking up some meat and veggies is completely unbalanced. If you have questions about leaving organs and bones out consult with a veterinarian nutritionalist. They can make proper recipes for you.

[debra m]

I see this is an older post but maybe someone will read it and it will help. My Maltese Bichon started getting Oxalate stones when he was 7 years old. He ended up having 3 operations roughly every year and 3 months to remove the stones. Through that time he had specialized dog foods like Royal Canin S/O , etc.. but nothing worked. A little over 3 years ago I came across an article on Oxalate stones in humans and how these people swore by Magnesium as getting rid of their stones. I studied the amounts for dogs weights and such, it’s a very small, miniscule amount, and it’s been 3 years of him being stone free. He’s 14 years old now and acts like 5. Before adding the magnesium I had started him on a people food diet. He still eats small Milk Bones for treats and loves Beggin Strips so he’s not being deprived of some dog treats, even though the milk Bones have calcium in them the Magnesium seems to negate that. I wish I knew how to write blogs so I could shout the benefits of Magnesium to the world on this but am not computer savvy. On a side note, I also have a female Shih-Tzu who had her stomach x-rayed for a different issue and stones were found. I immediately started giving her Magnesium and she may have just urinated them out but she has never had stones since and that was over 2 years ago. Please anyone reading this , try Magnesium, it has been a life saver

[Susan]

Hi Matt,
Good thing you’ve done taken on a rescue dog, just remember a dogs behaviour is human taught…. 🙁
He has run free & has been the boss for 8yrs, now there’s all these new rules, he’ll get use to it, the lady let him be the boss & do what he wanted, Patch was sorta the same when I rescued him but he had IBD & would eat everything, your dog needs to be re trained & you “can’ teach an older dog new tricks, but some breeds are very stubborn…
My Patch was 4 when I rescued him within 2 weeks he pretty much picked up on all the house rules I used food for training but I didn’t know he had IBD in the beginning so lots of diarrhea…
My vet asked the Animal Behaviourist vet to pop in & see us when we learnt he has IBD, we lived in communal unit/villas & Patch would go down stars to go toilet & on his way he sniff out the neighbour cats poo, on our morning walks he would eat everything, he was a walking vacuum cleaner, we lived in town near beach, after Friday & Saturday nights there would be pizza, chinese, vomit, everything on the streets from the night before, I had to wait till streets were cleaned & hosed down before going on our morning walks…
The Animal Behaviourist taught me “Leave It” she said put food/treat on floor in between your toes/feet show him but don’t let him get it & say “Leave it” then when he leaves the food under your foot alone reward him with a better treat from “your” hand… here’s link

Teach Your Dog to Leave It: It Could Save His Life

Always praise him when he does do something good…Tell him “YOUR A GOOOOOD BOY” & pat him reward all good behaviour..
The rescue vet told me to go to Puppy School even though he was 4 yrs old, Puppy School is good it teaches the human what to do & NOT do, or do research online there’s a few good f/b groups that are run by Animal behaviourist, if I find the group I’ll post it, cause your dog loves food he’ll be very easy to train, carry some kibble/treats in your pocket so when he goes to eat something on floor say “Leave It” “Leave It” sit then he gets reward for leaving food on floor, he can ONLY have food/treats kibble you give him…

When visitors come Patch is VERY friendly & gets over excited & when people talk in high pitch squeaky voice this makes Patch more excited & he starts to jump up to kiss their face & head butts their head & nose, he loved our gas lady one day she bend down the same time he was jumping up to kiss her & he head butted her nose, it started bleeding, cause he gets sooooo excited I put away his STRONG rubber toys in kitchen cupboard & as soon as someone comes to front door he cries & whinges at the front door then as soon ashe sees me he runs into kitchen & sits in front of the kitchen cupboard for 1 of his rubber toys, I think he has a rubber fetish he loves the strong smelling rubber toys, I just order another rubber toy you can put kibble in the rubber slots & wet food in middle so while visitors are over he’s busy in the back loungeroom chewing on his rubber toy & he’s leaving my visitors alone, no sloppy kisses & no more head butts..

While everyone is eating dinner you could also put his dinner dry kibble meal in one of those interactive game toys & he’s eating as well on his own mat in a corner away from the dinner table
Chewy has treat toys under $20….
https://www.chewy.com/b/treat-toys-dispensers-2336?rh=c%3A288%2Cc%3A315%2Cc%3A319
the dog works to get their food out & he’s slowly eating, don’t get a puzzle toy that looks too easy, Patch learnt if he pushes the whole game with his big nose the kibble falls out of the turning ball while the ball is in the maize but it still keeps him busy trying to get his food, he just works out how to get his kibble quicker….
https://www.chewy.com/b/treat-toys-dispensers-2336?rh=c%3A288%2Cc%3A315%2Cc%3A319
I think the new rubber egg shape toy I’ve just order is a good treat toy it looks like it will hold the kibble pieces. http://www.allforpawspet.com/Product?idvariant=1293
I can put his kibble in side rubber slots & add some boiled sweet potato in middle….

It’s good to give your dog healthy fresh foods, tin salmon, sardines, mussels, meaty bones, egg, Vegetables – sweet potato, broccoli, cooked carrot, frozen beans are good to help lose weight & keep a dog feeling full longer etc. Fruit- apple pieces NO seeds, blueberries, watermelon, & remember to reduce his kibble amount & feed partly boiled vegetables & feed 3 meals a day instead of 2 larger meals a day, he’ll feel fuller longer & might break his circle looking for food, or feed his 2 meals a day & make up a treat toy with veggies, fruit, some yogurt & freeze, then give around lunch time or for his breakfast or his dinner give healthy treat toy when its a boring time for him he can lick & lick the toy that’s full of healthy low calories ingredients… stick to feeding him the same times every day so he gets into a routine…
also find a few other brands he likes & eats so you can rotate between kibbles & freeze dried foods so he isn’t getting bored eating the same dry kibble 24/7 then he’s looking for something else to eat also rotating kibbles/freeze dried foods is good just in case the brand he’s eating is high in toxins, heavy metals, lead & contaminates….
Pet Shops all have money back guarantee for palatability..

Have you tried “Buckley Liberty” freeze dried, Buckley Liberty uses clean meats & has done very well when tested every 3months for high toxins, heavy metals & contaminates it has come 1st over 1 year now…
https://buckleypet.com/collections/all

Good-Luck

[PJ B]

PS (My dog won’t even touch “Milk Bones” now.)

[anonymous]

“dehydrated bones”

That is bone, it can calcify in the gut and turn into a cement like substance and cause a blockage, GI upset at the least.

Obviously you have been listening to the homeopathic crowd. Your info about raw food is wrong.
” Dogs aren’t built like us and are designed to be able to handle it. As long as your dog is healthy and doesn’t have any underlying problems they should be just fine.”

Good luck with that.

BTW: Your dog is a senior, has she had labs done recently? My advice still stands. Take her to the vet. I would have an x-ray/ultrasound done to rule out.

If you think I am blowing smoke, I am not. I have experience and knowledge in these matters. Find out the hard way, I did.

Please provide an update after your dog sees a real vet (not the internet).

[Anonymous]

I should add that she has been eating dehydrated bones practically all her life without problems. I haven’t been feeding her any raw bones yet though.

[anonymous]

Stop the raw immediately and take the dog to the vet, TODAY. This has been going on for more than a week. She needs treatment by a veterinarian, not the internet. BE HONEST ABOUT THE RAW WITH THE VET.

Give us an update so others will learn from your unfortunate experience.

Whatever you are feeding her does not agree with her and is causing her harm. She may have an obstruction especially if you have been feeding bones and such.
Or not, but something is wrong.
Even cooked chicken has a lot of small sharp bones in it, especially if you haven’t carefully chopped it up.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/02/actually-raw-chicken-likely-does-lead-to-paralysis-in-dogs/ excerpt below

“Dr. Brady can call me a dupe or lackey of Big Pet Food if he wants (and I suspect he will). The truth is, I am open to the idea that fresh food, even raw food, might have health benefits. However, the evidence is clear that raw has risks, and it is up to the proponents of raw diets to prove there are benefits that make these risks worth taking. Not with anecdotes, faulty logic about what is “natural,” rhetorical assaults on the pet food industry, or mere passion. They should prove it with data, with reliable evidence derived from appropriate scientific research. Until they do so, there is no reason for pet owners to take the risks they deny exist for ourselves, our pets, or our families.”

Yet Another Study Shows the Real Dangers of Raw Diets for Dogs

Read article and comments, use the search engine there to look up topics for more articles.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

Nothing is being sold at that site, no dog food, no supplements, no books, no membership fees.

[Diana C]

Well, They can both eat wet canned food and dry foods.
The food should contain high protein and low carbohydrate also have good taste.
That’s why I feed my cockapoo with raw meat and bones because I think it is better than any pedigree and bakers etc and i also recommend you the same.

[Spy Car]

Anita, chicken thigh bones are great for 60 lb dogs, but not for ones who are 14 lbs. Try small portions of chicken breast ribs or smaller bones from Cornish game hens.

Bill

[Bobby dog]

“Rawhide free,” it’s catching on:
https://www.milkbone.com/products/gnawbones

[Alice B]

Oh dear, Anita how is your little guy doing, is he ok?

I tried my 2 Yorkie boys on chicken wings & every time they would vomit 30 – 60 minutes after, No more bones for them
I use to worry about the bones in their throat & belly!

[Anonymous]

My little dog should be able to eat 300 calories a day and lose weight. He doesn’t even lose weight on 200 calories a day. At another website I calculated the amount of raw food (meat, organs, bones) my dog should eat if he was his ideal weight (which would be about 14 lbs). It came to 4.48 ounces of raw food (meat) daily. That means 2.24 ounces twice a day. You know how tiny an amount of food that is? My dog would go insane from hunger. I don’t know how to shrink his stomach down or what to do. I have been giving him vegetables to fill him up while decreasing his calorie intake but it is not helping. I am at my wits end. He needs to lose a whopping 4 lbs.