[joanne l]

Susan, I called the company about Holistic Select concerning the smell. They were very helpful they mailed me something to put some of the kibble in so they can test it. Well anyway they got back to me and said you are right it did smell off. They told me air could have gotten in the back so it started to oxidize. She said it would not harm the dog, but told me to get another bag and gave me a 10 off coupon. So I did get another bag and it smelled fine. However, my dog been eating it and he seems to being doing okay but he just don’t like it. In the meantime I want a food back up and I was looking at Victor, which I know you mentioned before and or health extensions, that also looks good. I would like to know if anyone had experience with Victor dog food? It is reasonable, price wise, hope it is good quality.
P.S. Thanks for responding about Pet Fresh, I would give him that with the dry food.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by joanne l.

[Sanne]

I am not sure which Nutro foods are grain inclusive as they have SO many lol I also have no experience with them

Some grain inclusive foods I like are Farmina Ancesteral Grain, Annamaet, Purina Beyond to name a few. My dog is currently on Beyond and doing great but she has eaten all of these brands and done well. Beyond has a Salmon flavour, Farmina has Cod, and Annamaet has Salmon and Lamb (Option is the name). I believe Annamaet also has a couple chicken based grain inclusive foods that have Herring in them as well, Ultra might be one of them. Victor Select has grain and their ingredients look pretty good, they have an Ocean Fish formula. I have not personally tried this brand yet but have heard a lot of dogs do good on it.

If you are interested in Nutro I would check out their website to see which formulas have grains. You could also go to Reviews on this website and check out the reviews for all of the Nutro formulas, there you can see the ingredients. Keep in mind the company’s website will always be the best place to see the most up to date ingredient lists for their foods.

Hope you find something that works out for him! I hate going through the food journey

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,
its probably not the Chicken in the Fromm Chicken formula that made poos mushy, there probably was too much soluble fiber or too many ingredients that insoluble fiber???
Fromm is known to have a heap of different ingredients in their formula’s, he probably wasn’t use to something, if he can eat cooked chicken, its not the chicken, you probably have just been picking the wrong chicken kibbles…

Kibbles with Chicken & Turkey are the cleanest meats this is probably why Patch is doing well since staying on Wellness kibbles that are Chicken & Turkey he’s not reacting after 2-3 months when I feed him same formula, before I had to keep rotating his kibbles every 2-3 months before but since on Wellness formula’s he’s been OK maybe its the probiotics??…

If you have a Victor store near you i’d try “Victor Select Protein Chicken Meal” formula it doesnt have the Blood meal in it no more??? Looks like Victor has change some of their formula’s??…
The Victor Prairie Land, Lamb Meal, Sweet Potato G/F formula & the Ultra Pro G/F formula’s have the blood meal probably to make it more appealing to dog or cause there’s red meats & they have blood meal??
https://victorpetfood.com/products/chicken-meal-brown-rice-formula
See if you can get a sample Victor Select Protein Chicken meal formula ..

[sara h]

I have a 1 year old husky who is a picky eater with a sensitive stomach. He barely eats his pro plan focus puppy (yesterday he ate maybe a few bites of dog food and today maybe a cup). i can feel his ribs and hip bones pretty easily. i tried changing it to eukanuba LB puppy and it upset his stomach (and he didn’t seem to like it much). fromm also cause vomiting in about 12 hours. i’ve tried mixing in my other dog’s adult food (crave, victor) and he just picks at it. i add vegetable oil and broth to his food but that doesn’t help either. what’s odd is for the first 1-2 months i had him, he ate his food super quick.

is there a large breed puppy wet food i could try mixing in? any recommendations on other brands of food to try?

• This reply was modified 6 years, 12 months ago by sara h.

[Susan]

Hi,
when I read Victors ingredients years ago I thought the same thing “YUK” Blood Meal” but when you think about it Victor is just writing what is in our dry kibble “blood & Bone”..
When you see a kibble being made you see all the blood meat etc all swirling around & when this is all dried up its a blood meal… So all dry dog foods would have Blood in them..YUK

I just goggled “Video of a kibble being made”
& look what I found its awful….this is why pentobarbital was found in dog foods..

“D & D Disposal
West Coast Rendering
Veron California April 2007
Stop at 4.10mins, look bottom left look at the white bag, it starts moving the dog is alive..
This is “why I hate” feeding a dry Kibble but Patch regurgites all wet foods 🙁

Yeah the Holistic Select mustn’t smell too great, Patch wasnt really happy eating it..
When I read posts on F/B I belong to a few IBD & skin allergies groups, a few dogs do well on Merrick LID formula’s…. take back the Holistic Select in 1 week & swap for a LID formula, go when a nice person is serving, normally the younger ones don’t care when I return food.. its the older ladies that ask questions.. You will find the right dog food for your boy hat helps stomach/bowel & skin, you just have to try a few different kibbles, look when Specials are on or when foods are reduced cause use by dates are close, I just paid 1/2 price for Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato, so I got 2 bags for the price of 1 bag, thats not bad & Patches allergies are doing heaps better….

[Susan]

I tried Holistic Select Senior back 2014 then again 2016 I tried the Puppy/Adult Salmon & Sardine Grain Free formula Patches poos were good, skin was good but after 2 months he wasn’t really interested in it probably cause of the Fish causing acid reflux??…
The Holistic Select Senior had grains a few years ago but Patches mouth licking & swollowing started again & poos were sloppy & yellow so I returned to pet shop probably cause of the Barley now Holistic Select Senior is Grain Free now & has Chickpeas, Peas, Lentils,…
I prefer Canidae or Wellness Patch seemed to do better.
I prefer meat 1st 2nd & 3rd ingredients less carbs, less reactions, less fiber, less problems for Patches IBD & skin…

It will all depend on “your” dog, you have to take the plunge, I did the same after I found out Patch has IBD, I was stressing out what foods too feed him cause I didnt know 100% what he was sensitive too 🙁
For 1 yr back 2013 Patch was on a Vet Diet Eukanuba Intestinal his poos were small & OK but he had bad yeasty itchy smelly skin, paws & itchy bum probably from the grains & beet pulp?? the vet said we’ll let his bowel heal first then deal with his skin problems, I was soooooo scared to try another dog food, then vet said do you want to try Vet diet Eukanuba Fish & Potato FP formula, a few of my IBD dog patients who have skin problems do really well on teh Eukanuba FP but Patch had bad diarhea & all I had introduced was about 20 kibbles to 1 cup of Eukanuba Intesinal kibble the first day he seemed OK, 2nd day OK, I was still only giving 20 new dry FP kibbles mixed with his Intestinal kibble, then on the 3rd day he had BAD diarhea water as soon as he ate he had to poo badly, Ive never seen him this bad, so took back the big bag of Eukanuba FP to vet practice he was put back on Metronidazole cause after going back on his Eukanuba Intestinal the diarrhea would stop, we had to fast him for 48hrs & was put on Royal Canine Intestinal wet can food, his vet said it was probably the potatoes so for 2 years I was SSSSSSOOOOOOO scared to try a grain free kibble that had Potatoes but now I’ve realised it was probably bad Fish meal in the Eukanuba FP formula not the potatoes unless they were green & rotten?…

Look for a dry kibble that doesnt have tooo many ingredients has at least 2-3 meat proteins as 1st 2nd & 3rd ingredients as protein meat is easier to digest, a dogs digestive tract is short, made to digest meat diet..

Have you looked at “Victor” Select range the Lamb Meal & Brown Rice formula or I like the Chicken Meal Brown Rice with Lamb Meal formula,
it has Lamb Meal Patch would do really well on the Victor Select Formula’s they have no barley, the Victor formula also have Montmorillonite clay, Id find a store that sells Victor & give the Chicken Meal Brown Rice & Lamb meal a go or the Lamb Meal & Brown Rice these are the ingredients to the Select Chicken Meal formula

Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whole Grain Brown Rice, Whole Grain Millet, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Grain Sorghum, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Flax Seed (source of Omega 3 Fatty Acid), Feeding Oat Meal, Yeast Culture, Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Kelp, Montmorillonite,

https://victorpetfood.com/products/lamb-meal-brown-rice-formula

[Sanne]

Thank you both for the recommendations! I think I might try the Farmina first as it looks really good and seems to have a lot of positive reviews everywhere. I like the look of the Light formula, my dog tends to be on the chubby side so I don’t want a food too high in fat or kcals.

I definitely like the idea of rotating, or at the very least having a back up brand that I know she does well on. So if she does well on it I will still try at least a second one. The senior Canidae looks good but for now I am just going to avoid too many peas/lentils/chickpeas ingredients. They make me a little too nervous. The Victor Senior/Healthy Weight looks pretty decent for a lower calorie option though. If the Farmina works I may still give that one a try as a back up. Glad I have not been able to find any negative history about these brands yet!

[Susan]

Hi Sanne,
I would give “Farmina Ancestral Grain” a try it’s made in Italy, it looks like a very good quality dog food, then I’d try “Victor Select” I think the Victor Select Chicken looked really good when I was looking.
I also feed “Canidae Pure Meadow” Senior formula it has all the supplements for aging dogs joints/bones, skin & coat, it’s high Omega 3 fatty acids & Glucosamine..
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-grain-free-pure-meadow-dry-formula

Rotate between a few different brands thats what I do, so if something is wrong with 1 brand then my dog isnt eating it for too long to have any bad side effects..
Your English is good

[Sanne]

Hey hoping people can help me out with their experiences and personal opinions. I know I won’t know if a food will work for my dog until I try it myself but I would just like to see if other people have experiences with these brands or know anything about them that gives reason to avoid them.

I am trying to find a food to switch my dog to. I have narrowed down my top picks to Farmina Ancestral Grain, Victor Select, and Purina Beyond/Purina Bright Mind Turkey&Rice. I am trying to switch my dog to a grain inclusive food because she is currently on a high lentil/chickpea food and I don’t want to chance it as she is a senior with a heart murmur. I am finding it too difficult to find grain free foods without all the legumes so just finding a grain inclusive food has been a bit easier.

These are my top picks because they look decent, they are within my price range, and all are found at my local pet store. Would just like to hear which one people would pick out of these and if there is any real reason to avoid one over another.

Thanks for any help and sorry if my English is not that great, not my first language and still working on it 🙂

[Susan]

Hi,

How’s his bum?? did you apply a cold press, lay him on his side & relax him, apply & hold a few cold baby wipes on his bum for a few mins, then apply some Bepanthen soothing baby cream..
or get some Betadine & soak a few tissues in Antiseptic Betadine solution & hold on his bum for a few mintues & watch he doesnt lick, the Betadine will relieve his itch & reddness..

The food has to agree with your boy, what you like & think is good, these ingredients may not work aswell for your boy, or what might work for 1 person dog may not work for your boy & when a food doesn’t agree with someones dog they normally post bad things about that brand of food & its not the brand of food that’s bad, 90% of the time it’s the person dog who’s sensitive to an ingredient lol..

He seems to be having problems with Purina, time to move onto another brand, you normally know within 1 month if a food is going to work for the dog…

“Victor” has their Select Lamb Meal & Brown Rice.
alot of people say good things about Victor, the “Victor Select Chicken Meal & Brown Rice” formula has the best ingredients out of all the Select formula’s & it has no Oatmeal or Barley, look for LID formula’s that have no Oats or Barley, no ingredients that are in his Purina formula..Maybe no Lamb aswell??
Can he eat Beef, Pork, Chicken?

I’d try the Victor Select Chicken Meal & Brown Rice it has Lamb Meal in it aswell. Chicken formula’s seem to have more meat & better ingredients.
https://victorpetfood.com/products/chicken-meal-brown-rice-formula

“Nutro Wholesome Essentials” Large Breed Adult Farm Raised Chicken
The LID Lamb & Rice formula worked for Patch, years ago, he was doing small firm poos only 1 or 2 poos a day. It only haa about 3-4 ingredients

“Farmina” Lamb & Blueberry Adult Medium
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop/dog-food/n&d-ancestral-grain-canine/120-lamb-&-blueberry-adult-medium.html

“Eagle Pack” Large/Giant breed Adult.
http://www.eaglepack.com/product-orignal-dog.aspx?product=85#.XAH-hvZuI5s

“Pro Pac Ultimates” Lamb Meal & Rice.
Made by Earthborn Holistic
https://www.propacultimates.com/dog-food/lamb-meal-brown-rice-formula/

“Sportmix Wholesome” Large Breed Adult.
Made By Earthborn Holistic
alot of people have good results if their dog has sensitive stomach/blowel..
https://www.sportmix.com/dog-food/wholesomes/wholesomes-large-breed-chicken-meal-rice-formula/

“Holistic Select” Lamb Meal & Rice
but I think Holistic Select has way too many ingredients & probiotics, too many ingredients is opening the door for more reactions your boy might have & you wont know which ingredient it is..

You can always return the kibble or you might “find” a formula that agrees with him??
You wont know until you try, maybe look at a Chicken Formula, I wonder if he’s reacting to the lamb but there’s not much lamb in the Purina formula he’s eating, its seems to have more Oatmeal & Barley then Lamb, this is probably the problem??
His bum would be painful & sore so they lick & the more they lick & lick the same spot their tongue strips their skin..
I had a cat years ago, he had a small sore, probably was a Hot Spot, he licked it that much I had to take him to the vet to be stitched up, he made the sore triple the size..

I came home from shopping last week & Mr Patch had licked & licked his back paw inbetween his toes, he could not walk for 2 days limping on 3 legs & had to wear a shoe on his sore paw, the nut gave himself a red ulcer from licking in the same spot for 1 hour… Grass Allergies

[Susan]

Hi Lisa,

Have you looked at “Victor” Select Protein formula’s
there’s Lamb Meal & Brown Rice, Beef Meal & Brown Rice, Ocean Fish Formula with Salmon Brown Rice.
https://victorpetfood.com/products

“Triumph” Simply Six Lamb Meal, Brown Rice & Pea Recipe Dry Dog Food
https://www.chewy.com/triumph-simply-six-limited-ingredient/dp/127978

You know your dog best, so go with what you feel will work best for your dog..

[Susan]

Hi,
The dry foods you mentioned have lentils in the first 4 ingredients, I’d avoid Lentils, peas would be a better choice like Cockermon said..

Yes cooking & introducing 1 ingredient might work to find out if your dog can eat & handle this ingredient & check out his poo & see is it firmer or sloppier, I did this when I thought Patch couldn’t eat potato, he reacted to ingredient in a LID vet diet Potato & Fish & the vet said it must be the potatoes, so for 1 & 1/2 yrs I thought he cant have potato & most g/f formula back 2014 had potato, so I started adding 1 spoon cooked potato & he was fine then I added 2 spoons of boiled potato & poos were firmer 🙂

Cheaper foods that might work??

Have a look at

“Whole Earth Farms”
Grain Free Recipe with Pork, Beef & Lamb (Poultry-Free)
For All Breeds & Life Stages
https://www.feedgoodness.com/products/recipe?title=Whole-Earth-Farms-Grain-Free-Recipe-with-Pork%2C-Beef-&-Lamb-(Poultry-Free)&id=8

Whole Earth farms – Grain Free Recipe with Chicken & Turkey
https://www.feedgoodness.com/products/recipe?title=Grain-Free-Recipe-with-Chicken-&-Turkey&id=1

Whole Earth Farms – Grain-Free Salmon & Whitefish Dry Dog but has MORE ingredients
https://www.feedgoodness.com/products/recipe?title=Grain-Free-Recipe-with-Salmon-&-Whitefish&id=7

Also look at “Victor Select” formula’s
there’s “Oceanfish Select Formula” or a “Lamb Meal & Rice Select formula” it has Probiotics & Prebiotics
https://victorpetfood.com/products

I’ve read alot of people who have dogs with sensitive stomach/bowel seem to do well on Victor dry food, just need to find the right formula & the Select formula’s have least ingredients to start with..

Pro Pac Ultimates
grains & grain free only has prebiotics

[Susan]

Hi Patrica,

Which Stella & Chewy formula are you talking about? I quickly looked up a few of the Stella & Chewy different formula’s & they all seems to have 2 meats as 1st & 2nd ingredients, the Raw coated Kibble Chicken formula ingredients look OK
Chicken, chicken meal, chickpeas, peas, chicken liver, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), chicken heart, natural chicken flavor, salmon oil,

If a dry kibble said, Chicken, pea/corn, lentils/chickpeas, tapioca/potatoes etc I would NOT buy it as the meat protein being “chicken” isnt a chicken meal & ingredients are listed when they’re raw not cooked so after the chicken is cooked it shrinks, 70% is water so the Lentils/chickpeas come 1st then either the peas/corn or the tapioca/potatoes come 2nd then the Chicken moves up the ingredient list depending how heavy the other ingredients are?…So I stay away from these type of pet foods now, Patch doesnt do well on high carb diets..
But if the dry kibble said Chicken, Chicken Meal, Turkey meal, Potatoes, Peas, Chickpeas then you know this dry kibble is higher in meat proteins not plant proteins. I wish these pet food companies had to list all the protein % in all ingredients, Earthborn Holistic Venture kibble does & I think Victor does aswell..
You’d think it would be the same with a raw food…but NO cause the raw doesnt get cooked so the meat proteins stay at 1st & 2nd ingredients etc same with freeze dried/dehydrated raw ingredients they are not cooked, maybe this is why DFA gives Stella & Chewy 5 stars?? or his dog eats it & does very well on Stella & Chewy lol

Make sure you have at least 2-3 meat proteins as 1st, 2nd 3rd & if lucky 4th ingredient, my Patch has improved so much since eating a higher meat protein kibble, I use to think he couldn’t handle a high meat dry kibble, I’ve worked out it was the Kcals they were toooo HIGH, the higher the Kcals the more dense is the dry kibble so it’s harder to digest & as they get older their digestive tract slows down.. Patch gets his pain stomach/pancreas when Kcals are over 370Kcals per cup so now I look for at least 2-4 meat proteins as 1st, 2nd, 3rd ingredients then a carb.

I belong to an Dogs with IBD Raw Feeding Holistic Support f/b group & I always see people recommending “Answers Fermented Raw” Answers is suppose to be “very good quality” raw food, I read about all these very sick dogs with IBD doing really well since coming off their vet diet (well that isnt too hard lol) or a premium dry kibble & since starting Answers raw food & their Fermented Goats milk these dogs is doing very well…
Have you tried Answer pet food ? I want to try the Goats Milk I’ll buy human quality goats milk.. Patch gets some of my cup of tea every morning so I’ll replace the tea with warm goats milk instead & see how he goes…
https://www.answerspetfood.com/products.html

[Susan]

Hi,

“I am thinking of changing his food, but I don’t want to upset his stomach”,

his intestinal tract is already upset, if he was doing really well on this Purina Pro Plan Sensitive stomach formula, his poos would be nice & firm, he wouldn’t be drinking & drinking water & he wouldnt be licking his bum…

DRINKING heaps of water- if his poos are soft/sloppy & not firm then he might be dehydrated, something in this formula might be dehydrating him like too many soluble fibers…your dog mighten have problems digesting his foods, your dog might be OK & can digest foods, he might digest his food too quickly like Patch does, so he doesnt need these type of ingredients that are high in soluble fibers that digest in teh small bowel, this could be the reason for drinking excess water??

Licking bum area or rubbing bum on ground/grass could be food sensitivities, something in this Pro Plan formula he’s sensitive too….
or his anal glands are full & need emptying, his poos mighten be firm enough & his anal glands are not naturally emptying now, this happens with Patch when he eats a grain kibble that’s higher in soluble fibers, maize/corn gluten meal, barley, oats, rice, & his poos aren’t firm enough to empty his anal glands…

Have you seen the Purina Poo chart??
https://www.proplanveterinarydiets.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/PPPVD-Fecal-Scoring-Chart-EN-FINAL.pdf

I really think alot of his Intestinal problems is to do with FIBER, Soluble fiber & Insoluble fiber & he cant handle too much soluble fiber ingredients as they digest too quickly in the small bowel & he might be like Patch & digests his food quickly anyway, so when they eat foods that are higher in soluble fibers this is when their poos are sloppy & are not firm.
He needs a dry food that has more insoluble fiber & less soluble fiber & alot of grain free formulas have more insoluble fiber ingredients & less soluble fiber ingredients..

Potatoes- Fiber from potatoes comes in both forms, soluble and insoluble, the “insoluble content is higher”. This is probably why dogs with IBS or IBD do really well when they eat a kibble that has potato in it…

He’d probably do better on a Large Breed grain free kibble that has potato?? or a grain kibble that has potato in it…

Make sure the next kibble you try has at least 2-3 meat protein meals as 1st & 2nd ingredients, so there’s less fiber in his diet & more meat but not too much meat 25%-34%, the Purina Pro plan Lamb & Oatmeal Sensitive Stomach doesnt have much meat protein in it, it has more plant proteins which = higher soluble fiber ingredients….

Have a look at Victor, a few people say their dogs are doing really well eating Victor dog food..
Look at the Victor Select formula’s, Victor uses the Montmorillonite clay.
Chicken Meal & Brown Rice with Lamb meal.
https://victorpetfood.com/products/chicken-meal-brown-rice-formula

or look at “Whole Earth Farms” Adult, it’s made by Purina if you like Purina but I really would look at a different brand for now.
https://www.feedgoodness.com/products/recipe?title=Adult-Recipe&id=6
or
“Whole Earth Farm” Grain Free Recipe with Pork, Beef & Lamb (Poultry-Free)
For All Breeds & Life Stages
https://www.feedgoodness.com/products/recipe?title=Whole-Earth-Farms-Grain-Free-Recipe-with-Pork%2C-Beef-&-Lamb-(Poultry-Free)&id=8

[SaintsDontCarryBrandy]

Completely agree with pitlove- 4 is not thin by any sane Wolfhoud/GSD standard. Since this only started post-antibiotics, then the cause/effect relationship seems straightforward. Keep in mind: Antibiotics are exactly that– anti-BIOTICS. They aren’t snipers; more like land (or gut) mines. They indiscriminately kill everything biotic (living). When they show up in the dog’s digestive system, they kill off all bacteria. It will take your dog’s body a minimum of 4-6 weeks to regrow and replace the good bacteria in her gut.

I also agree that a change in food would likely only exacerbate the problem. However, while adding probiotics to help her rebuild her insides is good, using human-food yogurt is not the way to go. Cow-based dairy products are very hard on dog stomachs. (If we were talking goat yogurt from your own goats, it might be easier, but that’s a whole different discussion.) Talk to your vet about an alternative probiotic for dogs. There are plenty out there, and you can usually get them from Chewy for far less than the average vet or pet store.

You may also consider a tablespoon of canned pumpkin in her food once a day for a few days, as this may solidify her stool and help restore and regulate her digestive function. (No fussing about “canned pumpkin isn’t real pumpkin”, now…this isn’t the Pick-On-Libby Dog Food forum, after all)

Finally: Using antibiotics can also trigger reactions in parasitic organisms hiding in your pup. When one part of the system is weakened, such parasites as worms and flukes can take advantage of that weakening and increase their attacks on the body. This often occurs with newly re-homed puppies, which is why a new pup obtained at 8-12 weeks should be taken to the vet for a checkup after arrival and some upset tummy should be expected. (Stress, in this case, is similar to the use of antibiotics in that it weakens one of the body’s defenses, causing previously unseen parasites to sometimes rear their ugly heads!) They might also die off and require flushing out of the system, which may prolong the diarrhea episodes. You might want to get her checked for internal parasites.

Personally, I use Victor Grain-Free food on all my Saints, and have had great success with it. Whatever you’re using, if it worked pre-antibiotics, it’s likely the antibiotic reaction (not the food) causing her current gastrointestinal distress.

[Jan K]

Thank you for your input. You are right in that I really don’t know if the food claim is truly related. I have two Samoyed girls, both have had litters, and a male who is proven. I have missed the last two heats with one, and the other seems irregular to cycle and it’s been about a year and half since her last litter. My vet is excellent at everything else but just shrugs and says, ” Go to a reproductive vet.” Last time I did that, (with a different dog, different breed) I spent almost $1000 and didn’t really get any answers. 🙁 There’s a long story with that dog, but save that for another time….I don’t think it was related to the issues I observe now.
I feed Victor, Hi-Pro Plus, give Daily Care vitamins, and add B-Strong to their feed, when I remember.
I welcome input!

[Jan K]

I’ve been reading that some dog foods have phytoestrogens in them and that those can cause problems with females cycling and producing health litters. I’m feeding my dogs Victor Hi-Pro Plus, which is 30% protein, and 83% comes from meat/meat products. I occasionally have cycling and breeding issues. Trying to figure out if it’s the food…..

[Spy Car]

@JS, I wondered if the Calcium to Phosphorus mineral balance might be different for a cat food vs a dog food, but it isn’t. There are some dog foods, like Victors Ultra Pro, that have higher protein and fat percentages (42/22) which is a decided positive, despite the misinformation you are getting from some sources.

I feed my dog a PMR style raw diet. No Carbs. Best thing ever. Better teeth, better coat, better energy (while also calm), great muscle mass with no body fat.

Cats fed PMR eat exactly the same way dogs do, with the exception being that cats need an adequate source of dietary taurine (as they can’t synthesize their own). I feed regular amounts of taurine-rich beef heart in any case to my dog.

I can’t say (having never investigated the question) whether there are any nutrients in cat food that are not balanced for dogs. I’d want to do due diligence on that question.

But the idea that cat food is too high in protein and fat is a total falsehood. The fewer carbs in the diet the better. Carbs add no essential nutrients to a canine diet. None. They also don’t belong in a feline diet.

Bill

[Susan]

Hi,
Did you take the Pro Plan Chicken & Rice back for a refund?? also contact Purina & report as there might have been other dogs that were sick aswell, people normally don’t report these things & these spoiled pets foods go undetected… It’s best to report to “FDA Report a Problem” https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/SafetyHealth/ReportaProblem/ucm182403.htm

Have you tried “Victor” their Select Lamb Meal & Brown Rice Formula or Beef Meal & Brown Rice?..
Victor write the Meat Protein % & Plant Protein % & Grain Protein %…

I like “Canidae” ALS & Pure formula’s & “Wellness” Complete Health & Core formula’s, Patch seems to do well on these brands also “Eagle Pack” Lamb Meal & Brown Rice….
I go to pet shops, so I can return the kibble if it doesn’t agree with him..

[haleycookie]

I wouldn’t change foods if she’s doing well on the current one and not gaining a lot of weight. How much does she weigh? My cousins 68 lbs in shape lab eats canidae all life stages and only gets 3 cups. I would describe him as medium activity level. He gets to run in the back yard and go on frequent walks but that’s it.
No reason to change food if he’s doing well on it. Higher protein doesn’t have any negative effects ther than weight gain in lazy dogs or dogs with diagnosed kidney problems so I would just stay on the Victor.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by haleycookie.

[CatahoulaLove]

I’m terrible at titles, but this website and forum have been such an amazing resource for me over the past few years, so here we go:

I have a 16 months old Catahoula-mix female, Harper, neutered, and active/less active lifestyle. Currently I feed her Victor Ultra 42 dog food, which is high kcal and protein content. Our vet recommended that we lower our protein content because she is not a working dog. So, I’d like to find a food that avoids lower quality grains, limit or eliminates legumes, limits carbs, and limits overall ingredients. After some obsessive research, I am trying to choose between Earthborn Holistics Venture Turkey and Butternut Squash 340 kcal/cup and Canine Caviar’s Open Meadow 541 kcal/cup. I would prefer Canine Caviar based on my readings and ingredients, but I’m concerned that my dog will be starving at getting only 2 cups per day on average with her activity level. With Venture she would eat near 4 cups, split into two servings. Daily requirement to maintain weight determined at 1100 calories from maths at Petnet based on weight, size and activity level.

So, Community, am I missing something important, or am I on the right track? I’d like the food to last as long as possible, but not at the expense of Harper’s health or mental state. Can the higher kcal become more filling without adding too many carbs etc, or is a lower kcal the way to go? I’m not looking to plump up the dog, but rather give the highest ingredients I can afford with the most all around efficiency.

Is there another option aside from RAW, BARF, freeze dried that I am missing with pea/legume free, (mostly) grain free, moderate protein, low carb, no filler, high quality dog food? I live in an area with access to nearly any brand, with online ordering options as well.
Thank you all for reading, and I look forward to reading your thoughts!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Joanne-
I have fed a lot of grain free WEF, Victor and TOTW along with some Purina, Fromm, Eagle Pack, Iams and Authority with grains. I’ve never thought grain free was necessarily better, but my dogs seem to do better poop wise with a little higher fiber. They had a rough start with parasites when they were pups and tend to have loose stools ever since.

Fromm Gold weight control is not grain free, but is fairly high in fiber and now am wondering if that is an issue now too. I am planning on switching to their reduced activity recipe instead which is a little lower in fiber.

It’s hard to know if there truly is a grain free concern since there is such a small sample of dogs so far. But having two lab/golden mix dogs, I’m going to play it safe. Both breeds are mentioned often in the different reports I’ve read.

I feed my cats about half Royal Canin kibble and half various canned food. RC is a little too expensive for our pet budget for two large dogs, however.

It doesn’t sound like your dog is sensitive to chicken. It’s so hard to tell with kibble because there are so many ingredients. Also, if your dog is anything like mine, they get into things they shouldn’t. Also, environmental allergies can also be an issue. The only way to know for sure is to do a true elimination diet with a hypoallergenic Rx dog food.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[pitlove]

Joanne-

I too havent been a fan of grain free diets for a while now. I used to be, but I’ve learned grain free doesn’t equal better quality.

We used Purina Pro Plan for 2 1/2 years with my dogs and they did excellent on it. I recently switched to Victor (grain inclusive) due to the price being better and they are doing just as well on it as Pro Plan. I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend either brand from my personal experiences with them.

Since your dog already has DCM, stay FAR away from grain free foods until this whole thing can be cleared up.

[alma C]

Victor Performance Dog food…

[crazy4cats]

Doginlaw-

I’m not sure how adding a bit of protein and a splash of water to a high calorie food will help with weight loss? But, the fish and potato formula that Tyrionthebiscuit mentioned is only 360 calories per cup. It might be worth checking out!

In addition, I also feed Purina Pro Plan, Purina One, Eagle Pack, Authority and Victor weight management kibble with success. Some of these may not have potatoes if you are trying to avoid them. My dogs do fine with them.

Again, I think weight loss would really benefit your pup.

Best wishes!

[Susan]

Hi,
I would look for a limited ingredient single protein dry kibble, this Victor Active has 4 meats, excellent for a dog who has a healthy Intestinal tract..
My boy has IBD I had to start with a vet diet, then once we found a vet diet that agreed with him & firmed his poos & was doing 2 small firm poos a day “Eukanuba Intestinal” Low Residue formula he had to stay on Eukanuba Intestinal vet diet for 6-12months to strengthen his immune system (Gut), then after 9months, I started trying a new dry kibble but it had to have 1 single meat, limited ingredient kibble & he finally did well on Taste Of The Wild Pacific Stream, Smoked Salmon but in Australia our some of our TOTW formula’s do NOT have any Peas, Lentils Chickpeas like the America TOTW, we still get the old TOTW formula’s.. he did really well on the peas free TOTW Pacific Stream Salmon formula except he started vomiting back up the dry kibble, now I’ve learnt to stay away from any fish kibbles as they are higher in Contaminates & Toxins, I changed him over to the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb formula it just has Lamb as meat protein & he did really well, no skin problems & firm poo’s, then I started introducing other foods in his diet so he’d get use to different ingredients, I even went thru a Animal Nutritionist & put him on a raw elimination diet, Kangarro & blended veggies, his poos were beautiful BUT he kept regurgitating back up water & some digested raw, then he was getting bad acid reflux & after regurgitating the raw the acid burnt esophagus so I put him back on dry food & started to cook the raw diet & feed it for Lunch & feed 4 smaller meals thru the day..

I would take baby steps, you will know once she has stopped taken all her meds…
Why does your 4-5 month old pup have UTI’s, she is so young?? also the pancreas test, you’d know if she had Pancreas problems, she’d be vomiting sometimes, eating grass & having pancreas pain & maybe sloppy poo’s, but her Pancreas would young & healthy??
I really think she is too young to be having problems with her Pancreas??..
What colour are her poos?? if her poos are yellow, smelly & sloppy look into Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth, S.I.B.O……while she was taking Metronidazole (Flagyl) were her poos better? sometimes they need to take the Metronidazole for 21-28 days to kill any bad bacteria in stomach/small bowel.. this is what Patch ended up having SIBO & Helicobacter-Pylori, it took a few years to get everything healthy aagain, now I can feed him any foods as long as he’s not sensitive to those ingredients, he does well on Chicken for stomach & bowel BUT not for his skin, he gets red yeasty paws & red skin around his mouth after he eats Chicken, Barley, Oats, Tapioca, Corn & cooked Carrots make his ears itchy…

If you can afford a vet diet that’s where I’d start, as Intestinal Vet diets have FOS, MOS, Inulin, Vitamin B, Beet Pulp, everything to help make the Intestinal Tract healthy, then once she is stable on a vet diet for at least 6 months then start her on a premium dog food that only has 1 meat protein & a few carbs..but slowly start introducing over 2 week period if you see her poos going sloppy while introducing new food, then stop new food & go back a few steps & stay on what she was doing firm poos on & keep a diary write everything down, food, ingredients, flea med, worm meds etc just in case you needs to remember certain things….I wouldnt give her any of those Flea chews yet, just use the spot on flea repellents for now till you work out her stomach bowel problem, just in case she has a very sensitive stomach/bowel, I just read a post on a Staffy f/b group, the lady gave her dog a Bravecto chew will the vet gave her dog the Bravecto chew & he’s been in vet hospital on a drip now for 1 week, dont ever vaccinate, worm & give flea chews all at the same time some vets do this on vet visits I know teh rescue vets do this & some dog can not cope always leave 1-2 weeks inbetween meds vaccination & flea repellents etc
How much does the bag of kibble say to feed her for the weight of your pup? maybe feed 3 smaller meals a day, thats what your suppose to feed a puppy 3 meals a day then they go to the 2 larger meals as they are older.. also have you tried boiled chicken or turkey breast & some boiled potato or try boil rice & see are her poos firm?? maybe for lunch over weekend try a small cooked meal, or a wet can vet diet the Royal Canine Intestinal low fiber is really good, some vet diets are formulated for growning pups your vet will know which ones Im pretty sure the Hills I/D Digestive Care wet & dry is formulataed for growing pups this way you”ll see does she do firm poos over a 2 week period? or try the single meat limited carbs next & see if poos are sloppy then try a vet diet.. Keep us informed with what happens with Zanya’s health….

[RottieMom]

Here is the run down of the food I have her on.

Victor Active Dog & Puppy Formula Grain-Free Dry Dog Food is formulated using multiple proteins including USA-sourced beef, chicken and pork meals, along with nutritious peas and sweet potatoes in place of grains. This premium-quality food also contains scientifically advanced ingredients that support your pup’s digestive and immune system health. Victor Active Dog & Puppy is an excellent food for dogs that may have allergies to grains or glutens, and can be fed to dogs of all ages.

Key Benefits
Super premium 33% protein grain-free dog food made with high quality protein sources for well balanced nutrition designed specially for active dogs & puppies
75% of protein in this recipe comes from a combination of USA sourced beef, chicken, pork & fish
Recipe features antioxidant-rich sweet potatoes that are high in dietary fiber and great for digestive health
Menhaden fish meal contains DHA, an essential nutrient for growing puppies
Grain-free and gluten free recipe for easy digestion

Nutritional Info
Ingredients
Beef Meal, Sweet Potato, Chicken Meal, Peas, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Pork Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal (source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Egg Product, Flax Seed (source of Omega 3 Fatty Acid), Yeast Culture, Natural Chicken Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Dried Kelp, Salt, Montmorillonite, Tomato Pomace (source of Lycopene), Dried Carrot, Choline Chloride, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Lecithin, Fructooligosaccharide, Folic Acid, Yeast Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract.
Caloric Content
3,640 kcal/kg, 397 kcal/cup
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 33.0% min
Crude Fat 16.0% min
Crude Fiber 3.8% max
Moisture 9.0% max
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 2.8% min
Zinc 150 mg/kg min
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg min
Vitamin E 150 IU/kg min
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.4% min
L-Carnitine 50 mg/kg min
DHA 0.1% min

[Spy Car]

@Tara H, I’d make doubly sure the issue isn’t giardia or other similar issues. Likewise, I’d want to know there is no issue with the pancreatic tests that have been run.

Assuming there are no issues, I’d either move to a PRM raw diet (my strong preference) or move to a mushers-type formula that minimizes carbs as much as possible (for a kibbled diet).

Victors brand, which you’ve tried, has a formula called Ultra Pro which is 44/22 (protein/fat) that minimizes carbs and is high calorie (so you can feed less food). Aside from having to process too much carb-waste, the other main food-related cause of diarrhea is eating too great a volume of food. Smaller portions of high-density foods (with less or no non-essential carbs) is kinder to a dog’s GI tract.

I would rule out any vet issues.

Bill

[RottieMom]

She will get about 90+lbs if not bigger (which I hope bigger, I love big dogs)! She is currently on Vetri Mega Probiotic from the vet – one capsule every 24hours on an empty stomach. I did do a slow switch from Beneful to Victor and per the vet switched to Pro plan slowly as well but after a month she was still having issues. I had plenty of Victor left since I just bought bag and was almost out of the Pro Plan (enough to switch) so I switched back. Probably wasnt the right thing to do really but I had a $40 brand new bag going to waste and vet said it was ok to go back as it was actually a better food than Pro Plan. And yes the Victor is for large breed.

Once We are off the probiotics I will have her on FortiFlora – I have used that before with my other Rott and it worked very well (he had parvo). That way she will have a good balanced gut after these rounds of antibiotics and the dewormer. She is drinking plenty of water thankfully and I was wondering if the antibiotic for her UTI is what is still causing the runs. As far as feeding, I give her 2 cups in the morning and 2 cups when I get home from work, is that too much and is also contributing to the runs? She still acts like shes hungry after that but I have read and been told by vet that over feeding can also fuel the fire.

IF by chance – after all if the meds are done, she is STILL having potty issues, I would like to change her food ONE more time to something for sensitive stomach before I go back to the vet and spend the $$$ for blood work and tests on her pancreas. I will definitely look into the Natural Balance Line when the times come.

Anything else I need to give or try? I really dont want it to end up being her pancreas…I just lost my male rott to bone cancer in April, and my pit mix has spleen cancer so I REALLY dont need another dog with medical issues…Its wearing me out!

[RottieMom]

Hey guys – new to the forums but not the site. I have a problem that i hope you can help with. My 4 month old female pupsters has had potty issues since i got her on Mothers dsy weekend. Breeder had her on beneful and when ingot her i switched her over to Victor active dog and puppy grain free beef grain free (the red bag) and her stools were the color of the food dark brown-and mixed from a good solid stool to a soft or even runny dirrhea like stool in the same go. Went to the vet and did anfecal exam it was clean so chnaged her food to a lower protein food, purina pro large breed puppy chicken. Same issues with the mixed stools actually more softer this time and the color was the same as the food once again. Stools have looked playdoh like at times or straight liquid when not solid. Took her to the vet again for her last round of shots/rabies and did another fecal test again clean. So vet gave me an antibiotic to help with the diarrhea as well as a probiotic. She is also on another antibiotic for a UTI and on pancur c.

We have finished the diarrhea meds, on day 2 of pancur (3 pack dose) and has about 5 days left on her UTI pills. She is still having soft stools where its hard to pick it all up with diarrhea drops towards the end. Vet says if she still has issues after all of this, she wants to take blood to look at her pancreas. Can anyone give more of an insight of this? Vet does not mention or think its Giardia.

Should I try to changer her food to something else? Oh and i have tried the pure pumpkin before and it didnt help. Possibly made it runnier. She is also NOT showing any other signs. Has never vomited, eats very well, drinks water, very active (too active lol), no fever, no pain or discomfort when you touch and feel around her belly or lower areas. She just has mixed stools. That’s it. Am I over feeding her maybe? I give her a total of 4-6cups a day max and that’s if someone mistakenly feeds her not knowing I did.

Any ideas would be welcomed. Thanks!

• This topic was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by RottieMom. Reason: Added more information

[pitlove]

I agree with c4C. My dogs have literally zero issue digesting grains. In fact we have to use a grain inclusive food as I’ve stated multiple times because of Bentleys stomach. Peas will send him to the vet instantly.

We recently switched from Pro Plan to Victor (not because Pro Plan wasn’t working, but to cut cost) and are very happy. I’ll continue to use Victor as long as they continue to do well on it and the price at our local feed store stays lower than chewy.com. We even switched the cats to Victor too!

[haleycookie]

Having grain in the food isn’t the saving grace here. Taurine is found in meat. Not grains. Legumes and taurine in meat don’t mix well. Especially when cooked at high temps. Substituting the legumes for grains is better for taurine absorption, but not so great for a dogs digestive system which is meant for meat and low carb. So upping the carbs in the form of grain inclusive foods isn’t exactly the answer. Unless one wants fat diabetic dogs. I think rotating meat based foods and quality in grain foods (think canidae, Victor, etc) in once in awhile would be the better answer. Sadly grain free does not = higher meat content and I think that’s where the grain free trend originates. And that’s where grain free dog foods are going wrong at this point. I think one should be more interested in low carb levels in general then just “grain free” foods. unfortunately most grains free foods coming to the market these days are mostly full of carbs sourced from legumes and potatoes.

[Susan]

Hi,
Yes Victor is suppose to be good quality food for the price, I live Australia we dont get Victor we only get Canidae, Wellness, Eagle Pack, Holistic Select etc …

About the raw diet YES that would be heaps better diet for Sweet Pea better then any dry or wet dog food, but I’d avoid any raw till Sweet Pea digestive tract is strong & healthy & best to feed human raw meat, no Pet Shop raw meats, I like the Dehydrated raw where you add warm water, my boy does really well on an Australian made organic free range raw.. She might prefer the dehydrated dog food, like “Honest Kitchen”, “Kiwi Kitchen” dehydrated & “Canidae” has a new raw coated kibble, I always buy Patches kibbles when on special when there’s 25% off certain dog foods & when the use by date is about to expire & the dog food is 50-75% off, I go to Pet Barn & check out all their use by dates lol then tell staff this use by date is about the expire also I rotate between a few different brands..
This is why a dog has a short digestive tract so if any raw meat they eat is off it passes thru their stomach to small bowel very quickly so no bacterica can breed & best to feed human grade raw meat, Kibble also has contains Salmonella & we hold it so always wash your hands after touching a dry kibble….
My cat had tartar on his teeth & my vet recommend I give him raw chicken wings cut in 1/2 x 3 times a week & the raw meaty chicken bones cleaned his teeth, cause he was old his vet didn’t want to risk putting him to sleep to clean his teeth, plus it was very expensive over $450 then another $50 per teeth if removed…

Yes very good idea before you see a vet GET Dog insurance, that’s 1 big mistake I made & I’ve spent alot of money on Patch with all his health problems.

[pitlove]

Hi Sweet Pea-

Do you have any history on this dog at all? Knowing some of her history might be helpful in understanding her food issues. How does she behave when shes offered food? Does she seem nervous? Does she seem unsure? Or just sniffs and walks away like she doesn’t care about it because it doesn’t smell good to her?

Consider getting a full vet exam, blood work, x-rays etc at a vet you trust to make sure there is not an underlying medical condition that is causing her to be underweight and picky due to pain or not feeling well. Also see if you can find out how her eating habits were at the shelter/rescue she came from. Could be the stress of a new home, once again.

You can use websites like BalanceIt.com to create recipes for homecooked meals if that is a route you are interested in. She may enjoy homecooked meals more and it may help with her appetite. Victor is a great kibble, but it doesn’t do much good if she won’t eat it.

[Sweet Pea the Collie Mix]

Surprisingly veggies arent her thing. I think she is more of a carnivore than an omnivore. We are feeding her twice just to get her more hungry since she really doesnt enjoy eating from what I can see, but I will try rationing out her food a bit more! I really think she would blossom on a raw or homemade diet but I am not confident in my nutrition knowledge to do something like that. I researched a good kibble for a long time before choosing Victor, since it was a good price and a good quality. I really wish I could afford the high end dog food like Canidae but my budget doesn’t allow it sadly. But Victor absorbs water well and it is nutritious so Im not too worried.

[Sweet Pea the Collie Mix]

I recently adopted one handful of a dog.
She is 6 years old and very underweight, she clearly has not been fed right in the past. Not only that, but she is extremely picky and has awful dry skin. She prefers wet food but Id like to get her on a kibble diet because she has tartar on her teeth. Currently she is 56 pounds and should be probably at least 65. She is getting fed mostly Victor beef meal and rice and was originally on Hills Science Diet Advanced Fitness (which she despises). I usually put a topping on her food like a bit of Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Fish. On top of that I usually soak her kibble in a bit of water to soften it, and incorporate a rotation of eggs, turkey, chicken, and cheese. Im gonna try giving her coconut oil for her dry skin as well. But no matter what I add, she NEVER finishes a good portion of her food. I need her to gain weight as she is not healthy at all right now, any suggestions?

Before this is asked, she does not get fed treats or table scraps except for a small dentastix and some shredded turkey deli meat so she can take her kennel cough pills. As for the kennel cough, she is no longer showung symptoms so Im sure that is not the cause.

[Ryan K]

Wow, Aimee I’m glad your dog is doing better. That had to be very scary. 🙁

Bill…I did have his triglyceride level tested the following day after fasting him. The level was 90 which they said was normal. I think the Precision PSL test is the one for pancreas health? That one came up 107 which is in normal range. The only red marker was on his cholesterol which was 327 which is high by a couple points. My vet said it seems ok since all his other values were good. I am truly stumped. Aimee’s points are concerning to me if this truly is something that could crash his system from too much fat but I also agree that a dog is naturally better off with higher protein and less carbs. I just need to figure out what this dog truly needs for his specific condition. I bookmarked that Victor food. I have seen it on Chewy before and wanted to look into it. Is that a bad choice though for a dog like mine who is fairly sedentary? Someone once told me not to go too high with protein and fat if the dog was lazy…which mine tends to be. I might call my vet to see what she thinks about these diet suggestions. I want to figure this out so I can move on and have my old dog acting like himself again. Thanks you guys!!!

[Spy Car]

Ryan, I appreciate the spot you are in getting diametrically opposed advice.

In the years I’ve fed a PMR style raw diet I’ve come to be able to spot raw fed dogs when I see them. It has happened a good number of times when I met “strange dogs,” and usually getting the “how did you know…well, of course, you know” type responses.

And I’ve been on the other side, where strangers have approached me and known immediately that my dog is raw fed.

You can tell when a dog doesn’t eat carbs. Every part of their condition from the skin, fur, teeth, breath and especially lean muscle mass with low body fat is vastly better. They stand out markedly from the condition of kibble-fed dogs.

Second-best is feeding a kibbled ration that reduces carbs as much as possible.

Here is a link to the type of formula I’d like to see.

https://victorpetfood.com/product-items/grain-free-ultra-pro/?portfolioCats=133%2C134%2C165%2C135%2C153%2C159%2C160

Disclaimer, I’ve never fed this food (as I feed raw) and I have no relationship with Victor’s. It is just an example of a reasonably inexpensive alternative called Victor Ultra Pro. It is a 42% protein/22% fat formula that they claim is 81% animal protein and has 14% carbs. Hard to do better than that with a kibbled diet.

It is nutrient dense (high calorie) at 479kcal/cup, so you’d probably need to feed about 2/3 the portion of a less dense food (depending). Maybe less. That also figures in cost. The volume of poop would also be cut significantly. Not just nice for you, but much kinder for a dog (especially one with issues) not to move extraordinary amounts of waste through their GI tract.

Since the fat provides a sustained energy supply, you could feed once a day (at days end) and your dog could then go to sleep instead of carrying around a belly full of food (which is actually really hard on dogs, especially breeds like yours with his conditions).

The fat in this sort of food would keep him satisfied (w/o the need for obscene amounts of fiber) and would supply steady energy.

I’d expect triglycerides to improve on the small chance the problem is diet related.

I would definitely ask for a thyroid panel to be run at the vet. I’m a little surprised they have not done so already.

I’d resist the low-fat/high-fiber-diet. I think your dog would suffer from such diet. It is no wonder he doesn’t like it. No diet could be more unnatural for a canine to eat. I’ve seen too many dogs on this misguided sort of diet, they never fare well. It is about the worst diet one could feed a dog in terms of nutrition.

I’m sorry you are getting contradictory advice. But there is no question which way I’d go based on the nutritional needs of dogs described in the veterinary science.

Best,

Bill

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Spy Car.

[Debra H]

After doing research on this site, I have been feeding my two new pups……..Great Pyrenees and Australian Shepherd mix the Victor Grain Free Dog Food for large breeds. They love it, but at this phase of their life, they would eat about anything! They are thriving and growing like crazy on the Victor.

[pitlove]

We started using the Victor Select Chicken Meal because it doesnt have ingredients Bentley can’t have. Is your Presa going to be neutered or is he already neutered? If not do you plan to keep him intact? Also, do you plan to work him? Or at least keep him active?

As far as rotating. I’m not a big fan of it. When I first got Bentley, I read all of the posts on here saying how important it was to feed a rotational diet and how their GI systems will be stronger and better if you feed multiple brands of food, so I did that. Did not work out. Bentleys allergies were out of control and I couldnt figure out what was causing the problem because he was eating a new food so frequently. Also now as a 4 year old dog, he has to be transitioned to a new food for 10 days or he gets sick, which is something that I was promised wouldn’t happen if he got used to eating different foods all the time.

If you still choose to do it, I would transition slowly to each new food and don’t change his food more than every 6 months or so.

We get Victor from a local feed store that is cheaper than online pricing for both Pro Plan and Victor. On a $/lb basis which is what I was going off it’s cheaper for me to feed Victor currently.

[pitlove]

Hi Margaret-

Victor is definitely a good food, I agree with you. All of Victors products get between 3.5-5 stars according to Dr. Mike’s rating system. NutraPro gets a 4.5 star rating which is not at all bad.

For me personally, I don’t use the rating system on here to choose a dog food anymore as I’ve found other criteria that Dr. Mike does not consider in his rating system to evaluate foods. There are some great articles on this site and I enjoy the conversations with people, but the rating system is no longer useful to me.

When I was refering to a food that was not on Dr. Mike’s list of large breed puppy foods earlier to Matt O. I was speaking about Purina Pro Plan.

[pitlove]

Hi surplus-

Thank you for putting a lot of effort into this list and expanding off of HDM’s list.

For some of the values that you weren’t able to get Dr. Mike has a Best Large Breed Puppy food list as well, that has some of those listed as appropriate foods. /best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/#best_lbp_food_list

Also it might be beneficial for you to contact Dr. Mike directly to work with him on your list, since it seems that you have some foods listed on your list as not appropriate, but he has listed as appropriate. For example, Origen Puppy Large and Eagle Pack Large and Giant Breed Puppy. Not saying your list is wrong and his is right, but if people decide to use your list and end up comparing it to Dr. Mike’s list the discrepancies will be confusing.

Also, I’ve contacted Purina many times for nutrient analysis values as I used to feed Pro Plan and never had a problem getting them to respond to me. In fact, I’ve had a woman spend an hour on the phone with me from Purina Pro Plan. I would recommend calling them directly again to update the information.

*Edit: I would also like to give you a brand suggestion to review as well; Victor.

[Denys A]

I just joined this site because of German Shepherd Man, who has his own, extensive, VLOG, and he recommended it. He also was highly favorable about Victor Super Premium Dog Food, grain free, for large dogs. No mention of Victor brand here! His other favorite was Blue Buffalo Freedom grain free. No mention of that. When I talk to people about homemade dog food, they recommend brown rice or they condemn it. They recommend raw or they condemn it. Everybody is an expert and yet, it seems, nobody is. Help!

[Michiel N]

How about Earthblend? Seems like a great food. If it doesn’t meet your criteria can you tell me if it would be a good food for our Bullmastiff puppy. We’ve been feeding her Victor Hero with Chondroitin/Glucosamine but her stools are very soft. Thanks for any input.
Here’s a list of their ingredients from there website:
Earthblend Super Premium Natural Dog Food™
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Oatmeal, Barley, Millet, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Fish Meal, Beet Pulp, Carrots, Peas, Sweet Potato, Natural Flavor, Sun Cured Alfalfa, Brewers Yeast, Dried Kelp, Flaxseed Oil, Potassium Chloride, Blueberries, Cranberries, Spinach, Pumpkin, Broccoli, Choline Chloride, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid], Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Mangenese Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide), Fennel Seed, Parsley, Garlic, Barley Grass, Thyme, Burdock Root, Red Clover, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Beta Carotene, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, Dried Aspergillus niger fermentation extract, Dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, Dried Bacilillus subtilis fermentation extract, and Rosemary Extract

[pitlove]

Hi BaileysMom-

It seems like each time you notice his symptoms come back you attempt to resolve them by throwing a lot at him all at once. Sometimes this is counterproductive because you can’t be sure what is working and what isn’t. I made the same mistake with the dog in my avatar who has allergies and yeast.

What we did that worked for us was an elimination diet. We used Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein, fed that food and only that food for 3 months during winter time. We noticed that his symptoms went away. Now elimination diets are tricky because they can not have any treats, any flavored meds, any dental treats, table scrapes, nothing, but that prescription diet. If your dog gets ahold of anything other than that food you must restart the trial.

Now as far as his seasonal allergies go, we’ve been trying to manage them with medicated baths either with https://www.chewy.com/malaseb-medicated-shampoo-dogs-cats-8/dp/119232 or https://www.chewy.com/miconahextriz-shampoo-dogs-cats-16-oz/dp/114184 if Chewy.com is out of stock of Malaseb. I try to bath him once a week and soak his feet frequently (though I admit I slack on it). We also just the other day got him the Cytopoint shot as well. It works…unless he goes outside and comes back in. Then he still licks. The problem with Cytopoint is that it is not guarenteed to work for every dog. It also isn’t guarenteed to last for a specific amount of time. Also just as a note, Apoquel is not a steroid, though it can have some long term side effects. IMO it would be worth trying even for a few months to see if it helps at all. I think that is the next step for us with our allergy dog.

For us, we’ve come to find out that as long as we do not feed Bentley a grain free food, he doesn’t have any of his food allergy symptoms. The peas are what we’ve seen to be the issue for him. We fed Purina Pro Plan for over 2 years and that went very well, but we recently switched to Victor because it was a little cheaper than Pro Plan for a larger bag size. So far, so good.

A low carb food will not help at all. Carbs do not feed yeast on the skin. The only thing that will cause a secondary yeast infection from food is if the dog is sensitive to an ingredient in the food. Not to mention dogs can only react to protein, not starch, fat, vitamins, minerals, carbs.

[Lauren]

Thank you all for the replies and the guidance!

Here is an update 🙂

We are finally about to run out of our first bag of kibble – a 12 pound bag lasted about 3 months. We started with Merrick Backcountry Raw Infused Puppy – here are the details of that one again:

Main ingred: Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Sweet Potatoes, Potatoes, Peas,
Natural Flavor, Turkey Meal, Chicken Fat, Potato Protein, Deboned Salmon,
Chicken Liver, Apples, Blueberries
PROTEIN 30.0% / FAT 12.0% / FIBER 3.5% / O6 3.0% / O3 .3%

It went over well, I believe. He always happily ate it up. For the most part he regularly had firm stools. Over three months he two small bouts of diarrhea that passed, and he puked twice – but who knows what caused those. As a puppy he attempts to eat every piece of fuzz or litter on the city sidewalks. So I think those are normal for a puppy. That said I think I wouldn’t know for sure how to tell unless a food was definitively causing trouble. But, as far as I can tell this one went over fine!

So, for the next bag, I think I’ll go down to 4 pounds, which should last about a month. And I think I’ll switch the main ingredient (from chicken to beef), but stick with the same brand for this next bag. Then for the bag after that, I’ll switch brands, and stick with the same main ingredient.

Here’s what I’m thinking for the next combinations:

Merrick Real Beef & Sweet Potato Recipe Grain-Free Puppy Dry Dog Food
Main ingred: Deboned Beef, Sweet Potatoes, Peas, Lamb Meal, Potatoes, Pork Fat,
Pea Protein, Potato Protein, Natural Flavor, Salmon Oil, Deboned Salmon, Flaxseed Oil,
Apples, Blueberries
PROTEIN 28.0% / FAT 12.0% / FIBER 4.5% max O6 2.0% / O3 .3%

then one of the following:

Victor Active Dog & Puppy Formula Grain-Free
Main ingred: Beef Meal, Sweet Potato, Chicken Meal, Peas
PROTEIN 33.0% / FAT 16.0% / FIBER 3.8% / O6 2.8% / O3 0.4%

Instinct by Nature’s Variety Raw Boost Puppy Grain-Free Recipe with Real Chicken
Main ingred: Chicken, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Peas, Chickpeas
PROTEIN 34.0% / FAT 18.0% / FIBER 3.5% / O3 0.4% / 3.8% min

Instinct by Nature’s Variety Raw Boost Small Breed Grain-Free Recipe with Real Chicken
Main ingred: Chicken, Chicken Meal, Chickpeas, Turkey Meal
PROTEIN 37.0% / FAT 16.0% / FIBER 3.5% / O3 0.3% / O6 2.5%

I’d like to test out a higher protein percentage since he’s a very active pup, but again I’m not really sure how to “tell” after he eats the food whether it was more or less beneficial than the others, and if so, why.

How do you all decide whether a new food is a step up, a step down, or just neutral?

[Jill N]

Yes, he has seen a vet due to a injured back leg back in mid Mach. He was seen again 1st part of April for a follow up and he had lost 10pds. Right then I was concerned and asked what is going on with rapid weight loss?, but they said; he probably just wasn’t feeling well enough to eat or even walk to his food bowl which is true he’s been taking it easy. He/Gunner has another Vet Appt next Monday April 30th. I will asked the vet if he will do a full panel blood work on him to be on the safe side. Gunner even dislikes pill pockets that you can get at the Vet “something he once really liked”. He’s been on pain meds for this leg issue. However he does take them in a peanut butter treat I make. Thanks for the chicken broth recipe, maybe I will try that with some cooked brown rice. Gunner has never begged for table food, but he won’t turn down a steak off the grill. I personally think he dislikes Victor Dog Food and I may try a different brand after his next Vet check.

[Jill N]

Hey Everyone,
I have a 6 year old GS and lately he has been very picking about his dry dog Food. My other dogs are fine with it. I use Victor Grain Free Hero Canine. I have tried the other Victor Grain free products and non Grain free. I even tried putting some beef stock in with is food and for awhile he would eat it. So now I’m thinking of switching to another brand that might appeal to him taste wise. Any suggestions? Thank you~

[a c]

Hi Crazy4cats, Thank you for the recommendation.

I have small breed dogs. I will check out Victor Sr/Weight or Fromm Gold Healthy Weight. I am currently using Annamaet GF Lean low fat kibbles as a base.

What do you think of Wellness Core reduced fat? It’s GF. However, Peas are listed as 5th ingredient.

I still don’t understand why kibbles can have 50+ ingredients. It’s so complicated. I personally like to have my food in simple forms. Lol

[InkedMarie]

Click “reviews” in the red line above. Click “dry dog food reviews” then “5 star”. There are many five star foods at good price points. Victor comes to mind.