[charisse]

FYI I had shared on my thread that I had heard some bad opinions recently on Orijen. (my thread is: Weight issue for Shih tzu Bella switching from Orijen to what?? Help please).

DFA says they don’t change any info on Orijen until FDA says something…here’s the copy below of one the posts I saw:

“I saw a few posts about the Orijen USA production vs Canadian production, and also this one around Feb/March entitled Orijen USA : “…I am disappointed to see that Orijen is still on the Editor’s Pick of this website. I actually subscribed when i got overwhelmed with my search for a kibble to replace Orijen which I have been feeding my Golden for 6 years. Origen has definitely changed their ingredients (to inferior quality), and have admitted as much. The color and smell is different, and our Golden’s stomach has been irritated by it…”
Charisse

[poodaddy]

Hi Virginia D and others. Here is our story on this specific issue of dog gas. I hope it reveals some aspects of the nutrition side. First, the advice about exercise can be 50%+ of a solution with any dog since all dogs are to some degree “athletes” that NEED exercise; exercise is not just cardiovascular but also depending on the breed can resolve many other issues that do not “seem” to be related, such as anal gland functionality. Now, I am neither a vet, nor a certified anything, but I have been a field dog handler and student of canine performance for a very long time, now using some skills to start my understanding of canine nutrition science.

Before my current two cockapoos, I had a yellow lab raised from birth as a field dog (and household pet). He lived a long healthy life and I want to share with you and others on this posting, the experimenting I did with my yellow lab AND recently (less than a year ago) with my two cockapoos. I decided to figure out in both cases (my yellow lab diet) and the two poos diets, what would happen to their digestive tract, specifically in the generation of gas, if I kept all other factors as constant as possible. What I did was figure out what percentage of their diet was protein from their kibble and then I moved them into a kibble/raw diet and stabilized the protein at 50% for a while. We raised the protein percentage in about 5% increments starting at 50% until noticeable gas started, then we leveled off to ensure it was constant. Then I increased it more until just shy of 80% and the gas creation (making sure all other things were held constant) was amazing (from a biological view). I had some old notes from my yellow lab days that I needed to convince myself of with the two poos and the results compared favorably. The nutritionist readers will have LOTS of variables that contribute to this and I would probably agree with them all, such as some combinations of foods work together to control the chemical processing in a digestive tract. For this little experiment we did, we simply wanted to know how did our dogs’ digestive tracts react to protein percentage (period) nothing more sophisticated. And we found that percentage for our specific cases that correlated for one yellow lab and two cockapoos. That result was when we reached 80% protein % from raw meat where raw boneless chicken was 60% and raw red meat was 30%+ (the remainder of protein was from other non-meat ingredients), the gas production increased rapidly.

For the testing period, and menu stablization, we used these macro goals: Protein 60%, Carbohydrate 20%, Fat 20% and then increased the protein using boneless chicken until gas started and then continued increasing it to see if there was more production and there was a correlation. By the way, body builders and most human athletes have a similar issue with protein in their diets.

So, the other comments made about overeating are on solid ground if feeding a yellow lab from kibble where the lab will eat whatever amount is placed in front of them. My reading suggests that some canines will eat low protein foods until they get the protein they need which some authors suggest that this contributes to canine obesity. The point is, some of the comments above are right on in that there may be a correlation with your lab and the amount of bulk he/she is intaking compared to feeding times and exercise.

For this post though, I wanted to share with you that for one small item in a controlled environment, we proved that changing one item (protein % using raw chicken as the variable in an otherwise balanced diet), caused the onset of gas and continued to increase as the protein % increased. Here is the makeup of the most recent raw diet our two dogs are on. These ingredients are part of an integrated nutrition model that is in development. This the first time I have shared this data but it is nearing time to engage the nutritionist forum posters. I am providing this data primarily so you know the above is not some quacked out post. This was a real experiment and perhaps the results and posts will help you (and others) where gas is an issue. All numbers are in grams weight.

Raw Chicken heart 1252
Raw Chicken liver 765
Raw Chicken gizzard 2106
Raw Chicken Marrow 315
Organ 10.8% by weight

Raw Eye Round Roast 6000
Raw Whole chicken”fryer”/deskin/grd bone 16200
Whole XL eggs 2232
Raw Bottom Round 2000
Muscle meat 64.3% by weight

Shredded Carrot 500
Raw Zucchini 484
Boiled Sweet Potato 3500
Raw NAPA Cabbage 953
Boiled Raw Edamame 800
Boiled Green Beans 1000
Raw Butternut squash 459
Raw Whole Apple 921
Raw Baby Spinach 400
Kelp Powder 100
Yellow Squash 423
Vegitable/Fruit 23.2% by weight

Coconut Oil 600
Oil Supplement 1.5% by weight

Sea Calcium 65
Macromineral Supplement 0.16% by weight

Notes:
1. The Sea Calcium is used to force the CA:P ratio to 1.2 in this menu.
2. This made 60 days of food each for two dogs, one at 13.5 LBs and one at 15.5 LBs.
3. The menu planned cost for food was $0.94 per day per dog.
4. The final results after shopping with same %s design was $1.10 per day per dog.
5. Energy analysis resulted in 306 g per day and 339 g per day for each dog.
6. Custom MER factor used as 1.4 (based on iterations over 6 months of menus).
7. 1,260 g contribution by weight due to bone.
8. 2.5% contribution on the organ side due to chicken marrow, based on my own experiments.
9. Energy required per day: 381 Cal for 13.5 LBs and 423 Cal for the 15.5 LBs poos.

Results of this menu are outstanding in all measured areas. Am in the process of peeling back “supplements and vitamins” for what they really are or aren’t. Hope this detail helps you or others. More to come from our quest for canine nutrition knowledge and practical applications.

[Susan]

Hi,
yes I knew the vet wouldn’t be able to tell you much more especially when you have done all the poo tests & ruled out parasites etc…..
How did he go after adding the Kefir, has the Kefir helped or made things worse?
He’s eating the fish NB fish formula, the fish LID is the only LID formula without pea protein the rest of the NB LID formula’s have pea protein except the Potato & Duck it doesn’t have Pea Protein BUT it doesnt have Sweet Potatoes either it just has potatoes, all the NB LID formula’s differ in ingredients, did you end up trying the NB Puppy Potato & Duck formula? it is heap higher in Omega oils that may have contribute to sloppy poo’s if you did try teh NB Puppy Potato & Duck formula…
Have you tried a different NB formula like Venison or Bison the NB formula’s that have Sweet Potatoes like the Fish NB formula has…You could start using another NB formula that has different meat protein for treats for 1-2 weeks, this way you’re slowly introducing & another meat protein to his diet but all the other NB LID formula’s have Pea Protein, (that’s if he can’t eat peas??) When he’s been stable & been doing firm poos for 2-3months start doing an elimination diet so you can work out what foods he can & can’t eat, start adding under 1/4 cup frozen peas that you have cooked to his NB Sweet Potato & Fish meal then you can rule out peas being teh problem..
For treats you could buy tin samon in “spring water” drained all the water & add 1/2 boiled sweet potato make small flat balls & bake in oven on foil lined baking tray or read what Hills does for dogs on strict vet diets, Hills recommend you buy the matching wet loaf style canned food that matches the vet diet that your dog is eating, so you look at the NB LID wet canned foods & he eat Chicken & Sweet Potatoes or there’s the matching Sweet Potatoes & Fish canned food but it has to be a loaf style wet food it can’t be the chunky broth style wet can food, you’ll have to email Natural Balance & ask them are their LID canned Fish formula a loaf style or broth & chucky style?
You open can loaf food slide out the loaf then you cut the loaf in thin slices then you put on a foil linned baking tray & slowly bake in the oven & make treats. I’ll try & find Hills treat recipe online this is what Patches vet recommend I do in the beginning when Patch couldn’t eat anything except his Eukanuba Intestinal Low Residue kibble or Hills sell their Hypo-Treats but the Natural Balance LID treats look heaps better & are cheaper & have less ingredients then the Hills Hypo-Treats have…..
Here’s Chewy site link, they seem to be cheapest & are pretty good with refunding money well so I’ve read, when a dog can’t eat a certain food.. this is Natural Balance LID formula’s & matching LID treats, pretty cheap around $5 https://www.chewy.com/s?page=1&rh=brand_facet%3ANatural+Balance

You’re lucky Atlas can eat the NB LID Sweet Potato Fish Formula & he isnt on a vet diet as vet diets are expensive almost double the price as the NB formula’s. I’ll keep a look out for another brand that has Salmon & Sweet Potato or another protein & sweet potato & has around the same amount fat, protein & fiber % that he’s doing well on. I know Merrick LID uses Sweet Potatoes & has similiar ingredients as the Natural Balance has but its the same price & dogs with GI problems do really well on Merrick LID formula’s also there’s “4health” is another really good kibble for dogs with Gi problems & it’s cheaper…. but next year after you’ve done an elimination diet I’d be trying a new kibble..

[poodaddy]

I would like to offer some personal insight into this but in no way intend to suggest that any comments above are “wrong”; I just want to provide a view into the prism of how a licensed professional may look at advising consumers. As a preamble, if a selected food works for the dog, and if that dog is in good health, i.e. not suffering from symptoms of improper diet such as excessive anal gland secretion, inconsistent stools, on-set of periodontal issues, skin issues, weight control variations, lethargy, where symptoms are not backed by medical testing, etc, then great.

But, …. as a licensed professional in a different industry, I can tell you the reason why any licensed professional will not advocate to a consumer for doing something that requires a certain threshold level of knowledge to implement it. It is one of professional LIABILITY. I become more and more convinced every day the reason veterinarians recommend a scientifically-balanced commercially manufactured diet is the liability for the vet to suggest anything else is unlimited – period. For example, I would not “recommend a person go build their own wing on a house” or “recommend a person change their food intake to a personal menu” but I would recommend a set of plans designed/sealed by others and or hiring a licensed individual to do the design work and I would recommend an industry professional be consulted before recommending something as vague as “raw diets are good so go do it”. That would invite a level of criticism that licensed professionals are not insured against.

Raw diet is primarily a matter of nutrition science and design; if I were a vet, my initial position would advise a non-professional against a raw diet as a matter of practice. We peeled this back on the pet food manufacturing side with the consultants or nutrition experts internal the manufacturers (which is where the liability is for commercial dog food) and found that our Vet “switched” to become supportive of a raw food diet when our nutrition data was presented and was customized to our dogs and when when combined with a Vet’s prescriptions to treat ailments that now are gone and there is scientific data to back it. It should not surprise anyone reading this post, that our Vet could not say “stop doing that when problems vanished.” The vet knew we had crossed over a threshold and were not coming back. This may surprise you but I would never recommend to anyone to just go do a raw food diet after what I have learned, unless, (1) using another professional’s complete diet with the data to back it up and or (2) doing it yourself … which is a huge commitment to an entirely new level of commitment to control the input data, measure the output data to know with certainty (=/- say ~3%) of what the data is showing.

I hope this provides a more full picture of the why a vet would not “openly advocate to consumers” to go do something that would most likely be FAR worse than buying commercially prepared and manufacturer-backed balanced dog food.

[poodaddy]

Ahhh, it is the weekend again and time to post good stuff. A lot of the above sounds soooo familiar with our situation for our both dogs, plus we had many other simultaneous symptoms occurring with our dogs, inconsistent stools, anal gland flare-ups, tooth/gum issues, we had been “fighting” the symptoms for so long it seemed we were destined for either living with it or changing the outcome. We were at the 4-year mark with our two cockapoos and I had enough of the personal ignorance and following everyone’s prescriptions including our Vet’s. So,… the long road on research and learning began (and it still continues), discussions with our Vet at a far more informed level (or at least the level I could study to), lots of webinars listened to given by licensed Vets with pet nutrition specializations, and reading reading reading. Talking to senior GOV nutritionists including the USDA, talking with pet consultant business owners, etc – you get the idea now that this was a lot of figuring out stuff that I could find in one condensed place. The secret we eventually (over an intense investigation period of months) came to was that we needed to take charge of the food data and get it done (science-based input = good results/output). The bottom-line in our case is that until we went to a complete raw food diet (this means really knowing first-hand what we were doing), we were destined on a course of mediocrity or worse and chasing symptoms which I (we) had enough of. The addition of ground bones and connective tissue with the raw diet addressed many issues (but that is just the beginning of the solutions). The experience, learning, demystification of misinformation, disinformation, and anecdotal information that is “out there” is staggering. This whole experience of ours is one that is very enriching and I am on a quest to tell everyone I can about the lessons learned, the solutions put into practice, the observations and iterations to make tweeks to the raw diet, etc needed to take control. On the money side, we have avoided thousands of dollars and or lots of worrisome situations with our two dogs. Because cost comes up regularly, our food cost ranges from an average of $1.00-$1.25 per dog per day (13.5 lb and 15.5 lb) not including time to plan, design, iterate, shop, prepare, manufacture, bag, clean up. And our Vet just smiles at us when we go in for the check-ups and tells us congratulations, you have broken some barriers of ignorance and have the data to back up your “program”. So, we are on the quest to get this project done and share the nutrition model (and all that goes into it) with those who want or need to start where we are and not have to recreate it. The model is in the final phase of designing the menu analysis section for supplements needed (or not needed) but it is based on nutrition data. Disclaimer: the model does not address any aspect of diet for treating diagnosed disease(s). The model is about proper diet and maximizing probability of prevention of problems that can be avoided by applying nutrition science.

[Noelle M]

This is a hot topic for me lol
I have a dog with struvite stones and chronic utis.
Of course when we were given this diagnosis we were recommended a prescription diet from our vet. I immediately cringed at the ingredient list that was majority corn. There was no way I was going to feed my dog what was essentially corn meal with chicken fat half way down the list for the rest of his life. So I began my very long, very draining journey into finding a decent food that wouldn’t cause a flare up.
First I had to figure out WHY the prescription diets worked. Right on the Hill’s website they explain that the food contains controlled levels of calcium, phosphorus and magnesium to manage the development of stones.
So I took the calcium, phosphorus and magnesium levels from the prescription food and started comparing them to other foods. SO many foods. Many of which I had to email the company directly because they didn’t have those levels available online.
Essentially I looked for food with calcium and phosphorus levels below 1%, the lower the better. There are actually quite a few to choose from!
My boy has been on Performatrin Ultra Grain Free Senior for the past number of months, his meals are floated in water and I add a cranberry supplement. His condition has been kept 100% under control and he is doing wonderfully overall on this food.
Generally I have found that senior or large breed formulas are more likely to have sub 1% calcium and phosphorus.

Some of the brands I have found that could work are:
Performatrin Ultra Grain Free Senior
Nutram Sound Senior and Large Breed
Diamond Naturals Grain Free Chicken and Sweet Potato

I give bonus points to foods that contain cranberry already, though I continue to supplement it.

Bottom line is the prescription foods WILL work to treat a specific condition, but I personally could not bring myself to feed it long term based on the ingredient lists. There ARE decent quality foods out there that match or come close to matching the analysis of the prescription diets that should manage the dog’s symptoms and are generally much healthier overall. Look for subzero levels of calcium and phosphorus, float the food in water and consider a cranberry supplement.

Obviously I cannot gaurentee that any of these foods will work, but it is definitely worth a shot imo and has worked beautifully for my dog who had pretty severe and chronic symptoms.

Good luck!

[Jane E]

a typical letter when contacting Dr Harvey
s company:
Thank you for your email and you interest in Dr. Harvey’s. Dr. Harvey has read your email and would like to speak with you concerning your specific issue and questions.

He is usually available Monday through Friday from about 11 AM -3 PM EST.

Please call our Toll Free number, which is 1. 866. DOC H -123

(1.866.362.4123).

If calling during this time is not possible for you please let us know by email where and when we can contact you.

He is a wealth of information and hopefully can help you with your question and particular situation. Of course there is never any charge to speak with him.

We look forward to your call and to helping you and your companion.

Yours in Truth and Health,

Wendy Shankin-Cohen

President/CEO

Dr. Harvey’s

[Susan]

Hi Paula,
do NOT use the Hydro Peroxide, Tea Tree oil or Witch hazel Oil these all will irritate the dogs skin more & are very TOXIC, she’s 13yrs old, her Immune System probably not as strong as it once was when she was younger… Please read what I’ve posted above in another post what to use & do, the Malaseb medicated shampoo is an anti fungal shampoo that kills yeast & bacterica on skin & paws & the creams will bring relief & stop the itchy skin trust me… Hydrocortisone 1% cream cost about $7 at Walmart & look for a thick white nappy rash cream in the baby section at supermarket if you cant get teh Sudocrem from Amazon this also will help her skin…
Do you shop at Costco? look for Kirkland Signature, Nature Domain, Turkey & Pea wet canned/tin food & start feeding her this & start buying tin salmon in spring water, Adli’s sell Salmon in spring water & add with some boiled sweet potato for another meal, the Salmon is high in Omega 3 fatty acids whats needed in her diet, also give a dog Probiotic to help strengthen her Immune System or Kefir slowly introduce the Kefir to her diet daily if you can’t get a dog probiotic…

That’s a myth spread on the internet that starchy carbs like potatoes, rice, oats etc causes yeasty ears, skin & paws in dogs, yeast only happens if the dog is sensitive to an ingredient he/she’s eating then yes they will get yeasty ears, skin & paws here’s the link below written by a Dermatologist Karen Helton Rhodes.. go on her Face Book page called
“Canine Skin Solutions” ask her questions she’s a Dermatologist..
Please click & read this link below, it tells you about all the “Myths & Fact about Yeast Dermatitis In Dogs” & how Witch Hazel, Tree Oil & Peroxide are all very TOXIC when used on dogs, you can smell that they’re toxic so the smell would be 10 times stronger for a dog… baths are the best to do, bath twice a week then weekly when she starts getting better baths relieve the itchy skin & wash off any allergens that’son the skin & paws & I use creams, creams bring instant relief to red irratated itchy skin, my vet recommended I use these creams on Patch as he couldnt take alot of the medications that are given to itchy dogs also I’d rather apply a cream then give any drugs to my boy, he’s 9 yrs old in Novemeber & he’s in excellent condition for a 9 yr old dog, beautiful shinny coat, white teeth no tarter, acts like a young pup, he has NO arthritis yet, so I must be doing something right, when I rescued him he was 1 big mess, it was awful the condition he was in..
http://www.healthyskin4dogs.com/blog/2015/9/8/facts-myths-about-yeast-dermatitis-in-dogs

[Susan]

Hi Debbera,
Please be careful feeding fish dog foods, the brands & formula’s you have mentioned have tested 10 times higher the recommend dose for toxins & contaminate’s when these fish formula’s were tested both times the is yeay April & August both fish formula’s have come back very high in toxins & contaminates…..google “Toxins in pet foods” & the **** links will come up…
brands like Trudog, Great Life, “Canidae”, Dogswell, I & love & you, Pet Pride Kroger, Buckly Liberty all rated very well in both pet food testings…. it was their chicken, lamb & Beef formula’s…. The Fish formula’s seems to be very very high in toxins, no good for a dog with IBD, IBS or any health problems…

This happened with my IBD boy, his vet & I couldn’t work out why Patch was doing really then after I being introduced to American fish formula’s then around 3 months while eating these fish formula’s he would go down hill with all 3 different American fish brands he was eating, they didn’t have any ingredients he was sensitive too so it wasnt food intolerances cause I had done an food elimination diet the 12 months before & knew what ingredients he was sensitive too & avoided these ingredients, so we couldn’t work out what was wrong, then this year I read about some fish pet food being very high in toxins & seen these 3 brands/formula’s in the worse top 10 formula’s first & second testing list, they were 10 times higher the recommended amount for toxins & contaminates, I felt so bad I was poisoning my boy slowly……..now the only fish Patch gets is human grade Australian caught or NZ fish that I eat & his “K-9 Natural” freeze dried green lipped Mussels from New Zealand, he’s been doing heaps better with his IBD now & hasnt had another IBD flare since I’ve stopped feeding American fish kibbles……

When a dog is having mucus bloody soft poos normally means she is sensitive/intolerant to an ingredient in the formula she’s eating, Patch was doing condom poos I called them, looked like a condom was wrapped around his poos, or jelly poo’s, no vet diets worked for him, alot vet diets are higher in insoluble fiber & very low soluble fiber making poos slop cow pattie poo’s, later I worked out this is why some of these vet diet formula’s were not working & helping Patches IBD, vets don’t really know whats in these vet diets, I knew more then all of Patches vet knew about the vet diets they were recommending, then finally I read TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon formula’s were working for a lot of IBD & EPI dogs, these formula’s both are lower in fiber at 3%max but the TOTW Salmon formula kept making Patch vomit straight after he ate the salmon kibble then he was eating it again, I didnt know this cause I wouldn’t be home some times but I kept seeing a wet patch on the carpet then the cat dob him in one day she was burying nothing on the carpet that’s when I clicked, vomit was there & Patch was quickly eating the un digested kibbles back up leaving a wet spot on carpet, his poos were excellent within 2 days nice firm solid poos, then this year I seen this fish brand foods that made him vomit was on the highest toxins 2nd list testing & finally worked out why Patch was going down hill when he ate fish kibbles..

If you keep having problems with your girl then a cooked diet is probably best to feed even if 1 meal is cooked & 1 other meals are kibble, a few of the IBD/EPI groups the dogs are doing really well the “4health” Sensitive Care, Sensitive Stomach formula it has just Egg & Potato so very easy to break down & digest or the 4Health Sensitive Skin formula it has pea flour & hydrolzed Salmon, so the hydrolyzed salmon has been broken down for the dog, so very easy to digest good for diogs with IBD, in both formula’s the fat & protein isn’t really high, alot of dogs with IBD need lower fiber & protein diets & 4Health has all this… worth a try if your girl still not well, also the “Canidae” Pure Meadow Senior is really good for senior dogs & has all the supplements needed for aging dogs.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[poodaddy]

The below was a response to a thread created in the “Trolls and Spam” area of this forum. It was loosely related to a perception that a raw dog food model may be a homeopathic method. So the response below was generated. I thought those of you interested in this raw food thread may also be interested in the below response to anan101.

October 11, 2017 at 3:32 pm
#105078

@anon101

I think this new thread and discussion is probably suited for a different area of the web site, since I think this area is for Reporting Trolls and Spam. If you can let me know where to jump to, we can do that. Perhaps there will be others interested in the “homeopathic” thread, which I have no perspective on, am ignorant about, do not have time to get into at this time, and is unrelated to anything I am doing.

After visiting the link you sent and there appears to be some confusion about what I am doing versus your area(s) of interest. My area of focus has zero to do with homeopathic interests in any way. I am developing a Nutrition Model (computer application) that is based on the latest canine nutrition design criteria I can find, every variable I can find and understand that professional canine nutritionists use for the planning, designing and implementing of “raw dog food”. I am on a quest to demystify the subject using my mathematical, Excel, and research skills to (eventually) open the world of raw dog food menu development and analysis to ANYONE interested in the subject.

In a separate area of interest, I have been cataloging as a test group of two (my dogs) the Vet-identified issues they had one year ago versus the Vet-confirmed mitigation or elimination of those issues as a result of recorded actions I have taken – most of which are raw dog food preparation since March 2017. This will be the subject of personally authored technical articles (for the future due to time constraints).

In short, my project addresses the ingredients, metrics, and nutrition stats associated with self-manufacturing “Raw Dog Food” vs buying “Commercially Mass-Produced Dog Food”. It is a very interesting subject that is also very detailed, analytical, and inter-related with post-feeding data capture such as weekly weigh-ins, trends of grams of food per batch, and documenting observed changes that can be correlated with a raw food diet.

I am already addressing much of this elsewhere on this DogFoodAdvisor forum. Perhaps you would like to participate or not. My next action is the nutrition analysis of KevinB’s post in Jan 2017 asking for comments on his menu. I am testing the veracity of my model (in progress) against his menu and will report out the micronutrition and vitamin information from the model (in a week or so).

I am not selling raw dog food preparation to anyone. In fact, I am cataloging the level of effort, skills, process, equipment, hygiene, and so on, of everything related to raw dog food preparation at home. I am a scientist, an engineer, and businessman addressing solutions to disinformation, misinformation, fog of lack of information, and or professional greed that keeps information from everyday people who need to know how to address their questions and resolve them for themselves related to raw dog food. This will be my contribution this year.

[poodaddy]

I think this new thread and discussion is probably suited for a different area of the web site, since I think this area is for Reporting Trolls and Spam. If you can let me know where to jump to, we can do that. Perhaps there will be others interested in the “homeopathic” thread, which I have no perspective on, am ignorant about, do not have time to get into at this time, and is unrelated to anything I am doing.

After visiting the link you sent and there appears to be some confusion about what I am doing versus your area(s) of interest. My area of focus has zero to do with homeopathic interests in any way. I am developing a Nutrition Model (computer application) that is based on the latest canine nutrition design criteria I can find, every variable I can find and understand that professional canine nutritionists use for the planning, designing and implementing of “raw dog food”. I am on a quest to demystify the subject using my mathematical, Excel, and research skills to (eventually) open the world of raw dog food menu development and analysis to ANYONE interested in the subject.

In a separate area of interest, I have been cataloging as a test group of two (my dogs) the Vet-identified issues they had one year ago versus the Vet-confirmed mitigation or elimination of those issues as a result of recorded actions I have taken – most of which are raw dog food preparation since March 2017. This will be the subject of personally authored technical articles (for the future due to time constraints).

In short, my project addresses the ingredients, metrics, and nutrition stats associated with self-manufacturing “Raw Dog Food” vs buying “Commercially Mass-Produced Dog Food”. It is a very interesting subject that is also very detailed, analytical, and inter-related with post-feeding data capture such as weekly weigh-ins, trends of grams of food per batch, and documenting observed changes that can be correlated with a raw food diet.

I am already addressing much of this elsewhere on this DogFoodAdvisor forum. Perhaps you would like to participate or not. My next action is the nutrition analysis of KevinB’s post in Jan 2017 asking for comments on his menu. I am testing the veracity of my model (in progress) against his menu and will report out the micronutrition and vitamin information from the model (in a week or so).

I am not selling raw dog food preparation to anyone. In fact, I am cataloging the level of effort, skills, process, equipment, hygiene, and so on, of everything related to raw dog food preparation at home. I am a scientist, an engineer, and businessman addressing solutions to disinformation, misinformation, fog of lack of information, and or professional greed that keeps information from everyday people who need to know how to address their questions and resolve them for themselves related to raw dog food. This will be my contribution this year.

[poodaddy]

@ anon101

Yup, your advice is good. I am seeing some interesting communications behavior from people, particularly since I have not been an internet surfer or forum person. It is possible this forum may not be the place for my interests, but it may end up being a good place to converse about the project I am doing or peripheral subjects that arise. I know there some very knowledgeable people I have already met and who provided links that have moved my project forward (sources of data that professional consultants would not even give me), so that is a good thing. My interests are primarily science of the model and industry-leading sources of the data to move the model toward a fact-based objective system that can function as the start of the raw food nutrition planning AND be a source of in-progress implementation of a customized raw dog food menu. I am using the model as an analytical tool to evaluate a menu posted in the homemade section and that should be an interesting dialog once I have the nutrition data researched. If people get weird (unprofessional), I will follow your advice and ignore them.

[Susan]

Hi Kevin,
I’ve been feeding “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb now 2 yrs with great results, my boy has IBD, Skin Allergies & Food Intolerances to chicken & other ingreients, I’ve tried all the Vet Diets & other foods on the market for 2 long years & finally TOTW was the only food that helped Patches IBD (Sloppy Poos) + his Skin allergies (itchy, smelly paws & skin from food sensitivities chicken), even on facebook groups where dogs are sick Diamond kibbles seem to work the best for these dogs, maybe Diamond as been around longer & understands a dogs needs especially when they are suffering with food sensititivies, diarrhea, itchy skin etc, I don’t know but I read alot of really good results on these F/B groups….. “4Health” is another really good food made by Diamond where I’m reading very good results especially 4Health Special Care range Senstive Stomach Egg & Potatoes has no Chicken…also I’ve had really good results with “Canidae” Pure Formula’s.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products scroll down a bit look to your right & click on “View All” & pages 3 onwards have the start of the Canidae Pure range, grain free limited Ingredients kibbles, have to read each formula as they all vary.

It will all depend on your dog but alot of these really high meat protein & higher fat kibbles which have alot of different meat/organ proteins & ingredients are not agreeing with dogs who have allergies & food intolerances, some of these dogs can’t seems to handle too many different ingredients all at once I have found, so stick with kibbles that don’t have too many different ingredients but have really good ingredients, TOTW Sierra Mountain just has Lamb as the only meat protein, the only other thing I need to warn if you don’t already know is STAY away from fish kibbles as some of these American fish kibbles are 10 times higher in Toxins & Contaminates, if you want to add fish to your dogs diet buy human grade fish that you would eat like tin sardines in spring water, tin salmon in spring water, Freeze Dried Green Lipped Mussels are excellent to give as daily treats, don’t feed a kibble that’s has fish in it, these pet food companies wouldn’t be sourcing premium cuts of salmon or whitefish etc they would be buying the cheapest off cuts of fish they can find to use for pet foods & it’s sad, laws need to change so this stops happening & pet food compaines need to start testing all their pet foods & make sure they pass & aren’t 10 times higher in toxins & contaminates & a stamp then needs to be put on the front of the kibble & wet tin foods saying this food has been tested, it will happen 1 day but probably not in our life time ….
another thing once you do pick a kibble pick 2 different brands you’re happy with slowly introduce 1 of them & then start rotating between 2 different brands so your dog doesn’t start reacting to another ingredient in his/her food & he’s not eating the same ingredients 24/7 he has a few different ingredients in his diet, it doesnt have to be too many ingredients as long as he’s not just eating 1 meat protein & say Lentils & Chickpeas in his diet 24/7 for teh rest of his/her life….

[aimee]

I understand your point from a dog owner education standpoint but personally I just can’t bring myself to blame her.. it was a tragic event.

As for the company… something isn’t right here. Size aside if the chew that led to that dogs death tests out as rawhide ( I thought i read the actual chew was being tested) I think she has a valid court case.

[Susan]

Hi Angel B,
Sorry to hear about your pup, but did you SLOWLY introduce the new food?? when you try a new kibble you have to slowly introduce over 7-10 day period to get the dog use to the new ingredients, when a dog has food sensitivities to an ingredient this can cause sloppy poo, wind pain, gas, bloody poos, diarrhea…Read the ingredient list there will be an ingredient he is very sensitive/intolerant too this happened when I rescued my boy….
This is why it’s best to rotate between a few different brands that have different ingredients so your dogs get use to eating different ingredients & strengthen their immune system so they can eat all types of foods… I hope he gets better, the vet will send him home with some Metronidazole tablet & a vet diet probably Hills I/d Digestive Care, Chicken & Vegetable Stew is good easy to digest when stomach & bowel is tender..

[Susan]

Hi Sade.
Your dog might have Seasonal Environment Allergies & Food sensitivities the 2 normally come together & as the dog ages the allergies get worse not better…

Have a look at “Canidae”Pure Petite, Small Breed formula’s or there’s Pure Sea, Pure Wild, Pure Land formula’s, Canidae kibble size is nice, small & easy to digest you will see a big improvemnet with the skin, most of the Pure formula’s are chicken FREE
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products. I’ve read that chicken fat has no protein in it, & the protein is what the dog reacts too… but when they have both Food & Environment allergies it’s hard to work out what is causing what? So Elimination Food Diet is best to do in teh colder months not Spring Summer or Autunm too many allergens..

Baths the best to do, are you bathing twice a week too wash off the allergen’s on paws & skin? I have found “Malaseb: medicated shampoo to be very good, it kills any bacteria & yeast that’s on the paws & skin, puts moisture back into the skin & makes skin nice & soft, I also use Hydrocortisone 1% cream when paws are red & itchy at night you check all over dogs body & paws look for any red irritated paws & skin look inbetween toes & pad lightly apply some hydrocotisone 1% cream, by morning paws will be all clear again, then I use “Sudocrem” before Patch goes outside for walks etc, Sudocrem is for Dermtitis, Eczema, Nappy Rash & acts as a barrier & protects the skin & paws, really good thick cream, Amazon or Ebay sell Sudocrem & the Malaseb medicated shampoo..
Start keeping a diary & write everything down, as te years pass you well start to see a patten & can work out if it is Seasonal Allrgies, another really good food to add to diet is Green Lipped Mussels chwy sells teh “K-9 Natural”Green Lipped freeze Dried Mussels give 1-2 mussels a day as treats, Mussels are high in Omega 3, EPA & DHA

You need to keep on top of things & with the weekly baths or bath as soon as he starts licking & chewing paws with the Malaseb Shampoo to relieve his itchy paws & skin, diet high in Omega 3 faty acid, applying creams & using baby wipes to wipe skin, fur & paws down after ghe comes back instide & when you dont want to bath you’ll start controling the problem, but allergies don’t get better…
A really good Face Book group to join is “Dog Issues, Allergies & Other Information Support Group” there’s a Dermatologist in the group Karen Helton Rhodes she also has her own site called “Canine Skin Solutions inc”

[Susan]

Hi Dana,
Scroll up to the 2013 posts, read “Hound Dog Mom” post, she recommends cheaper joint meds that are good..
Go on Chewy site & get some “K-9 Natural” Green Lipped Mussels 50g, they’re freeze dried excellent given as treats 1-2 mussels a day, the shell in the mussel has Glucosamine & Chondroitin, the mussel meat is high in Omega 3, low fat & wont cause any stomach pain/acid reflux like alot of these joint meds can cause… If you ask vet or vet nurse they may know of a human grade supplement that has same ingredients as Dasuquin Advance, read ingredient list to the Dasuquin Advance write it down then take to a few Pharmacist/Chemist & ask the Pharmacist is there a joint supplement that has these ingredients….. Green Lipped Mussel are excellent to give especially when your dog has Panreatitis IBD stomach problems….

[Anand B]

I have a 2 month old lab. Ever since i got her i have been researching dog food. I used to think Pedigree being popular must be great. Turns out its one of the worst. Intitially i got Royal Canin Maxi Puppy but on reading that its not much better i switched to a local brand Drools and their premium range (Focus) as their ingredients look pretty good. Since its not reviewed here would like opinion about it.

Ingredients: Drools Focus Puppy
Raw Material:- Real Chicken(>40%), Whole Dried Eggs, Long Grain Rice, Oatmeal, Flax Seed Oil, Sunflower Oil, Fish Oil, lecithin, salt, Beet Pulp. Vitamins:- Vit A: 22000 IU, Vit D3: 1500 IU, Vit E: 250 Mg, Vit C: 150 Mg, B1: 8 Mg, B2: 22 Mg, B6: 11 Mg, Choline: 2500 mg, folic acid- 2 Mg,Beta-carotene-50mg and Others: Natural Antioxidants (Rosemary Extract),L Cranitine, Probiotics and Prebiotics,Essential Amino Acid , Organic mineral.

[Susan]

Hi Panya,
I can’t stop laughting, Patch does the same his farts scare him when he’s sleeping & he farts he jumps up & runs off my bed lol when his farts are loud, he’s the same he doesn’t fart now he’s eating the right diet….
Go on Face Book & in the “Search” bar put “Canine Pancreatitis Support Group” join then look on your left & click on “Files” then click on first link “Low Fat Foods” you’ll see all low fat dry & wet tin foods, scroll down look at the wet canned low fat foods, I would be feeding a low fat wet tin food instead of dry kibble or feed low fat wet tin for 1 meal & dry low fat kibble for other meal…. Wet canned or cooked diet is heaps better for dogs who have suffered with Pancreatitis as kibble is harder to digest & is higher in carbs, the fat% has been converted in all these wet tin formula’s, the fat % is to your right, the fat % in raw & wet canned food hasn’t been converted to dry matter (Kibble)….Hills convert their fat % in all their vet diets but the other vet diets brands are not converted, so stay around 1-3% fat in wet tin foods when looking to buy any…
If you still want to feed a dry kibble look at “Canidae” Pure Meadow Senior, it’s low in Fat at 10.80% max, very easy to digest & has all the supplements for an aging dog…
always email the pet food companies & get the accurate max fat % & protein % in wet & dry food your thinking of feeding. I’ve already emailed Canidae & got the fat % in the Pure Meadow Senior, it’s a really good kibble it has No Prebiotic “Chicory Root” you will see a big improvement in your dogs skin coat & health while eating te Canidae Pure Meadow Senior formula there’s also Pure Resolve weight management but teh Senior has all te supplements to a senior dog & te fat % is the same..
Here’s Canidae’s site scroll down a bit & click on “VIEW ALL” on your left, click on page 3 has the Pure Meadow Senior & Page 5 has the Canidae All Life Stages Platinum Less Active kibble its low fat easying to digest & good for dogs with Pancreatitis. https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

[anonymous]

Another thing, when the stone was removed, the vet usually sends it out to be analyzed.
“The vet said she “thought” she had a Struvite bladder stone”.

It is important to identify the type of stone, usually struvite or calcium oxalate, it makes a difference as to which foods should be restricted.

Also, ask your vet about prescription medication for stubborn cases, if your dog is having recurring urinary tract infections and/or bladder stones.

You may find this article helpful, excerpt below, click on link for full article and more information plus treatment recommendations
http://bichonhealth.org/HealthInfo/UrinaryStones.htm

Management of Bichons with Urinary Stones
 It has long been recognized that some Bichons Frises have a predisposition to formation of urinary stones (uroliths). This condition is known as urolithiasis. There are several types of stones that can form in the bladder, with struvite (also called magnesium triple phosphate or “infection” stones) and calcium oxalate being the most common in Bichons. The most important preventative for stone formation is free access to fresh water. For a dog predisposed to stone formation, there are other considerations as well. This article is intended to provide the pet owner with a better understanding of the prevention and treatment of urinary stones. Good veterinary treatment is the most reliable resource for the ongoing care of your dog. You may wish to copy this article for your veterinarian.
The Bichon Frise Club of America, Inc. sought input from Carl A Osborne DVM, PhD in preparing this material. Dr. Osborne, Professor at the College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Minnesota, is considered a leading authority on canine uroliths. We are grateful to him and to his team at the Minnesota Urolith Center for their assistance in making this information available. For more information, you and your veterinarian will be aided by the book “The ROCKet Science of Canine Uroliths”. You will find details in the article below.
And now, please carefully read the following article, prepared by Dr. Osborne and his staff. At the end of the article, there are several paragraphs about Bichon health that need to be considered as a part of the total picture in treating Bichons with bladder infections and stones.

[anonymous]

Per the search engine: /forums/search/bladder+stones/
See my posts
Also regarding prescription food:

More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets

I have used Royal Canin SO for a dog for a dog with bladder stones with good results.
Zignature is a quality food, copy the ingredient list from Chewy and show your vet, maybe the dog could have that? Or, 1/2 and 1/2 with the prescription food? Check with your vet.
Whatever you feed, add water and maybe soft food, presoak kibble and add water.

Dogs that get bladder stones often have a genetic predisposition (struvite and calcium oxalate are the most common), not enough water is another contributing factor.
Has she had an x-ray/ultrasound to rule out bladder stones? Because, they can have more than one type of stones. This also. can result in recurrent urinary tract infections.
Add water to the kibble, and you can also presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridge prior to serving.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate, keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conductive to stone formation.
Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals a day is better and always have fresh water available. Maybe add a little plain chicken broth (no onion) to the kibble.
A blocked urethra is a medical emergency and can result in surgery to save the dog’s life.
Did the vet talk to you about prescription meds for stubborn cases? Don’t confuse supplements with medication.
Work with your vet, prescription food and all, when the dog has been stable for 6 months to 1 year you can discuss diet changes.
Use the search engine here to see more threads on this topic.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.
Ps: You may find some helpful information here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=urinary+tract+infection

[poodaddy]

Rea, I can assist you. I just joined this forum today and need some advice on how to navigate inside it and find the right place for my interests. Would you help me or introduce me to someone far more knowledgeable with on-line forums that I am?

On your question about carbs, there is the theoretical response based on nutrition science and there is the practical how to do it. Will provide you with the practical and see if this satisfies your need.

Assumption: requirement is to calculate carbs in grams weight from a known food of a known weight.

Approach: find that food’s nutrition profile that states the carb content per serving.

Data Source: use nutritiondata.self.com to find the food’s macro nutrient profile. There are other sources but let’s use this one.

Method:
(1) select per 100g on the site pull down.
(2) record the database results for carb content per 100g.
(3) weigh your sample in g (or convert your food weight to g).
(4) food weight (g) x food data [carb (g) per food sample size 100 (g)] = carb (g).

Illustration: what is the carb content of 1.3 lbs of raw zucchini
(1) go to http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2639/2

(2) record the data for a pull down selection sample size of 100 g to be 1.2g Prot, 3.3g Carb, and 0.2g Fat.

(3) convert your sample to (g). Let’s say you weight your 1.3 lb in grams and it shows 591g. The conversion factor for lbs to g is 453.592 g/lb, i.e. weight lbs x 453.592 g/lb = weight g.

(4) 591 g Zucchini x 3.3 g Carb per 100 g sample = 19.5 g Carb.

Hope this fully clarifies the matter for you. poodaddy

P.S. For the percent, assuming you were looking for the percent of carbs in zucchini, it could be as simple as reading the percent data from the nutrition database output Or you could use the 3.3 g Carb per 100 g sample = 3.3% by weight. The only issue with this in isolation is to do this for a menu, requires the total grams of Carb for all foods in the menu to be divided by the total grams of the menu x 100 for the percent of Carb in that menu.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by poodaddy. Reason: Need to finish the response based on question related to "percent"

[Pete S]

Dairy based kefir is generally fine for dogs and cats. You can read a little bit more about kefir for dogs and why lactose isn’t an issue with kefir in the article I linked, but basically the beneficial bacteria also breaks down the sugar lactose turning it lactose free. If you are still concerned, there are also water based kefir grains (such as Water Kefir Grains from Cultures of Health on amazon) you can try as well.

One other thing you should be aware of if you purchase Kefir for your pets, make sure they are unflavored or plain and don’t contain any artificial sweeteners that could be dangerous. The article I linked to above has a simple easy recipe for making homemade kefir so you don’t have to worry about unwanted additives.

[Nadine H]

I looked at both of those foods. I couldn’t use the large breed puppy because of the lamb. One of my pups can’t tolerate lamb. I contacted cs and they finally recommended the adult that you’re looking at. They sent me the complete vitamin, mineral etc analysis so I could compare them and there is a big different between the two products.I wasn’t comfortable putting two dane pups on the adult food. After reading some of pitloves comments I tried the purina focus large breed puppy and both of my danes are doing very well on this food. Vet did tell me that maybe only 1% might have a food allergy and so many foods include chicken.

[CockalierMom]

Hi Atlas,
Susan may have better information as to how long to wait before trying the Nature’s Domain, but here are my thoughts. The LID food is formulated for adult dogs whereas Nature’s Domain is formulated for All Life Stages and also claims to be appropriate for growing large breeds. I think the sooner you can transition to Nature’s Domain the better. Since you are already feeding a salmon based food that appears to be working, the transition may go smoother going to the Nature’s Domain Salmon first before trying the Turkey. You said you are in day 3 but what is the home cooked to kibble ratio?

It does not surprise me that he has not gained weight in the past month, since food has not been staying in his system long enough to absorb all the nutrients. If you do not know how many calories a day is suggested, you might ask the rescue. Other option would be to look at the bag of Natures Domain (or get on the website) and see how many cups of food are recommended for his age and weight, and convert to calories. Then figure up how many calories you are actually feeding with the home cooking and the LID kibble added in. If you need help with this, just let me know how much and what type of chicken, potatoes and kibble you are feeding and his weight. I feed my allergy girl a mixture of THK base mix, home cooked protein and a few kibbles and I have spreadsheets setup to keep track of the calories.

[Susan]

Hi Atlas,
I would feed the Natural Balance Fish & Potato for 4-6 months to let his Gi tract settle & heal or start him on the the brand that is cheaper, the Kirklands Natures Domain Turkey Sweet Potato formula this way you have some of the Natural Balance Fish & Potato formula to introduce with the kibble & just feed that kibble for 4-6months then once he seems stable rotate between a few different brands with a different protein source… & make sure they do not have Chickpeas & Lentils..

He’s probably growing it’s called “growth spurt” it happens between 8-12months old, google Growth Spurts in dogs….
You could give him a meaty raw bone, no cooked bones, this way he chewing & keeping busy & he’s eating something & you could feed him 3 smaller meals a day instead of just 2 larger kibble meals a day, that will keep him feeling fuller.
I follow “Rodney Habib” on his face Book page watch his videos, his vidoe’s are quick & to teh point & really good, he recommends blueberries, apple, healthy whole foods added as a topped to kibble fed dogs I give the toppers as a treat instead, if your dog likes cooked food instead then feed him cooked meals & try & feed less kibble he’ll be healthier….

The only problem I have with fish kibble they are higher in toxins & contamintes.
Have a look at Clean Label Project 2nd test study on kibbles, wet foods & treats, alot of the expensive brands some of their formula’s came back very high in Toxins & Acrylamides & BPA & BPS… Kirkland had a few formula’s, so did TOTW & I think Nature Balance had a few brands high in toxins, you’ll have to look thru & see which formula’s only got 1-2 stars
here’s the link below click on it, read thru then scroll back up & look to your left & click on “Dry Dog Foods” you’ll see all the 5 star foods then go to pages 11 thru to 16 is teh start to all the bad 1 star brands & the formula’s that tested very high in toxins. Just stay away from these formula’s if you can…..
The last 2 Summers I’ve been rotatating Patches kibbles to a fish kibble cause he has skin allergies in Spring & Summmer months & fish formula’s are higher in Omega 3, my vet & I couldn’t work out why poor Patch was doing really well thru the Winter months then after I started feeding him new fish formula’s that didnt have any ingredients he is sensitive too “Wellness” Complete Health, White Fish & Sweet Potato, he got sloppy poos & was unwell, so I put him back on his TOTW Roasted Lamb formula he was good again then I introduuced & tried “Earthborn Holistic” Ocean Fusion after 1-2 months later he became ill again, same with “Holistic Select” Salmon it took 3 months he became sick & wouldnt touch his food if ever your dog wont eat a kibble dont make him, take the food back, I keep all my recipts, then I tried the TOTW Pacific Stream Salmon formula which is the Kirkland Nutures Domain Salmon & Sweet Potato formula, he kept vomiting up the TOTW Salmon, then last April CLP released their first ever pet food testing & I was shocked there were 3 of the foods I feed Patch in the top 10 worse pet kibbles all these formula’s tested very high in toxins, now CLP has just relesed their 2nd test 1 week ago join & get their emails click on link below also on your left click on “Brand Report Cards”
Some people say CLP is this & that, all they want is money, yes they need donation to test pet & baby foods that’s how we get it for free.
My dog & other people dogs have been very sick after eating these 4 & 5 star brands that DFA gives & they have tested very high in toxins, when you go & look at these brands up in the DFA “Reviews” section, read all people’s post, my dog is sick, my dog died, my dog has diarrhea, I know some dogs may have health problems but there’s some foods like TOTW’s High Prairie formula where a heap of dogs became very sick all of a sudden after eating the TOTW High Prairie & Pacific Stream formula’s these formula’s both tested very high in toxins in CLP 2nd testing…
I’d rather be safe then sorry & when you have a dog with a sensitive stomach & bowel these’s are the dogs that become very sick first, Purina rated good with some of their formula’s but some of Purina’s formula’s didnt rate good at all, like Purina’s Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach formula it rated 3rd worse formula with the higest amount of Toxins.. there’s more information on different pet foods on Clean Label Project F/B page…
Im staying away from fish pet foods, I buy human tin salmon in spring water give that as a small meal with sweet potato for Patch
http://www.cleanlabelproject.org/pet-food-study-2-0/

[CockalierMom]

Hi Atlas,
With your boy’s gut already irritated and inflamed from something in the Instinct, the rice irritated it more. Neither one of my girls can tolerate rice in kibble or when it is double cooked in water and time. As Susan mentioned before, once his gut gets healed he may or may not be able to tolerate rice. When it comes to food issues, it really is a matter of experimenting to see what they can tolerate.

My girls actually do good with the LID Natural Balance foods because of the low fiber, but I knew you did not want the expense so the Nature’s Domain looks like a good option. (If I had a Costco close to me, it is a food I would try). My girl with just the grain intolerance actually eats half Wellness Simple Turkey and half NB Duck and Potato–the fiber in Wellness is a little too high so I cut it with NB.

As far as the Sentinel, I used it all the time 10 years ago with my previous girls and then it was discontinued. When they brought it back 4 years ago, I decided to try it again instead of Heartguard, but after the first dose, their fur became very dull and dry (they are both black cockers). Our vet mentioned how bad their coats looked and wanted to know what I had changed and it turned out to be due to the Sentinel. I found this out when I took them off of it for the winter, and the shine returned to their coats. I did try giving another dose a few months later, and the same thing happened so it obviously did not agree with either one. I know there are a lot of people who use it without any problems at all. My best advise is if you want to try it just watch for reactions like you have done with the Revolution. After what I have been through with these girls with food problems, I limit as much exposure to heartworm and flea products as possible–I do not use any more than what is necessary. I keep my yard sprayed with Wondercide so they are not exposed to a lot of fleas, ticks, and mosquitos. You just need to use your judgement as to what is necessary in your environment. When you are dealing with a food issue, it is easier when you do not have other sources that may be contributing factors.

Keep us updated if you get a chance.

[Jaclyn B]

Hi DogFoodAdvisor,

Clean Label Project is a national non-profit with the mission to bring truth and transparency to consumer product labeling. We do this by using data and science to reveal true product quality and purity and empower consumer to make their own choices. Through the resulting shifting economics, we aim to serve as the catalyst to change the definition of food and consumer product safety in America.

Given the humanization of pet food over the past several years coupled with the scandals and recalls, we were especially interested in what was truly behind all these “Feed them like Family”, “Natural”, “Human-grade”, etc. claims. For us, it was about seeing past the comfort and security that pet food brands marketing departments sell, and get right to the data and science about the true ingredient quality. This impartiality only comes through testing. When we began this pet food study, we assumed that these companies were regularly screening for environmental toxins alongside more conventional foodborne contaminants (like salmonella). Our results clearly indicate otherwise. We believe consumers have a right to know what’s in the products they buy.

When we initially started this project, we utilized Nielson reports to pull the products that made up 90% of the overall retail sales of pet foods. From there, we visited specialty pet food stores and spoke with consumers and team members to ask what people were buying. Our approach to the sampling was simple and why Clean Label Project is unique is clear- we simulate the consumer shopping experience. We went to grocery stores, pet food stores, and online retailers and purchased products just like any consumer would. We tested over 1000 of America’s best-selling dry and wet dog foods, cat foods, and treats for over 130 environmental and industrial contaminants and toxins like heavy metals, pesticide residues, antibiotic residues, plasticizers, melamine, acrylamide, and mycotoxins. We amassed over 130,000 data points, benchmarked them, and put the findings on our website in the form of a 5-star rating system. The products that we personally purchased and tested are literally the exact same products that are in pantries across America. For us, we don’t trust label claims, we trust analytical chemistry because gas chromatography and Inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry doesn’t lie.

We agree that sampling error is a risk in any scientific study, and you have correctly pointed out that random sampling of sufficient size is essential to minimizing the risk of sampling error leading to a false positive or false negative result (so-called “Type I” and “Type II” errors). However, there are two important distinctions here that we would like to stress as to why we chose the sampling strategy that we did.

First, at the product level – while you make a valid point that sampling repeatedly from different batches for an individual product would result in a more accurate representation of the “true” contaminant level of a single product this, in our opinion, misses important quality and supplier assurance implications of our results. If these companies, as many of them have repeatedly assured us, are conducting rigorous supplier assurance and quality assurance programs, single “fluke” high values should be exceedingly rare. While sample variability does occur, a robust quality program should severely limit the variability (and the levels of these contaminants). This is particularly important given that there is no maximum tolerance level for these contaminants in the pet food space. As a side note, the argument that “the product is only loaded with known carcinogens occasionally” doesn’t reassure us very much. Consider the analogy of food borne pathogens like salmonella, e.coli, or listeria – certainly there is variability as to how much of these bacteria are present in raw ingredients, but rigorous quality assurance programs or kill steps bring the variability in finished products to almost zero. This is why the presence of these bacteria cause headlines when they occur in finished foods – we have systems in place that should prevent them. This is not the case for the contaminants we measure in the pet food space—but it should be. All brands, regardless of their score, should be vigilant regarding these contaminants and should take proactive steps to improve the status of the industry.

Second, at the brand level: It is important to note that decisions about a brand (for example, the brand report cards released September 18, 2017) are not based off single product ratings, instead they are based on the average performance of multiple products within a brand. When data is aggregated across a group, the “true” value being estimated is that of the brand, not the product. As such, when we give the “thumbs up” or “thumbs down” to a brand, this is based on the weight of evidence from multiple products. This means that our brand ratings, and the conclusions we draw about the performance of brands, are arguably the least likely to be impacted by sampling error.

For us at Clean Label Project, we refer to ourselves as the environmental and industrial contaminant and toxin people. That’s who we are, the mission we hold, and the conversation we are looking to have with consumers. To us, so often we hear about food safety issues happening at burrito restaurants and cruise ships (e.coli, listeria, salmonella, etc.), but what people don’t talk about is the long term adverse health effects associated with chronic exposure to industrial and environmental toxins and contaminants with links to diseases like cancer- for ALL living things. To us, first, it’s do no harm, start with high quality – not harmful ingredients – and then dive into how to formulate the most nutritious foods. This should not be a novel concept.

To us at Clean Label Project, there is no such thing as healthy poison. You can read more information about our position here. http://www.cleanlabelproject.org/white-paper/

[Susan]

Hi Atlas,
the 6 month mark is time to let his bowel heal & get healthy again from having diarrhea & a irritated bowel from having food intolerance, the Metronidazole helps heal the bowel, Metronidazole is an antibiotic & an anti inflammatory excellent when the stomach & bowel is inflammed. Once you find a kibble you want to feed just feed that for 4-6months, my vet recommends 9-12 months, that was after Patch had diarrhea blood…. I dont think his food intolerance/sensitivities will go away, Patches haven’t, I ended up doing an Elimination food diet to work out what Patch can eat, he has a few food sensititivies…
Hopefully your boy will get better now you, just read labels what is in treat biscuits as well & use the dry kibble as treats for training…
Oh there’s 1 thing the Natural balance Fish & Sweet Potato he’s eating at the moment has NO peas or probiotics, so when you try Kirklands Nature Domain Turkey & Sweet Potato formula, his poos may go a bit soft then maybe they won’t, just introduce over new kibble over 10 days he might be OK with peas my boy is & there’s probiotics in Natures Domain to keep their gut healthy, if his poos start going a bit soft just add less new kibble & more of the old kibble & stay on that amount of new kibble a few days longer & add more of his old kibble…..
Good-Luck

[Susan]

Hi Atlas
Sorry I just saw your email, I’ve been very busy today it’s Thursday, it’s Kill Day at the pound, I help with the sick pound dogs & try & get them out of pounds under duty of care & get them into foster care, people dump their dogs at pounds when they are sick & dying…

Why I recommended “4Health” Sensitive Stomach is cause it is egg & potato & you wrote your dog did really well on cooked Egg & Potato & Chicken, also alot of dogs with intestinal problems do really well on the 4Health sensitive stomach formula cause it’s low in fiber 3%, low in protein & it’s a very easy to digest formula, I just looked up Nature’s Domain Puppy & it has Garbanzo beans (Chickpeas) & Lentils, please stay away from any kibbles that have Chickpeas, Garbanzo Beans or Lentils, dogs that have intestinal problems do not do well on Chickpeas (Garbanzo beans) or Lentils they are high in fiber & very hard to digest alot of these grain free foods are using Chickpeas now cause it’s easy to buy cheap bags of chickpeas & lentils & it’s more expensive to buy sweet potatoes so we are seeing chickpeas (Garbanzo beans) Lentils in all these grain free foods now….
Try the Nature Domain Turkey & Sweet Potato formula first if you can get it, Kirkland Natures Domain is made by same pet food company that makes Salmon & Sweet Potato is the same as the Taste Of The Wild Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon formula, I forgot about Kirkland Signature Nature Domain formula’s, my boy did really firm poos on TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked salmon but he kept vomiting the Pacific Stream salmon back up & re eating the kibbles alarm bells went off & I changed him to the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb instead. I stay away from any fish kibbles now they seem to have more contaminates & toxins in them, your better off sticking with Turkey & Chicken meats for now till he’s better for a good 6 months & let his bowel healed.
Just make sure you read ingredient lists..

He probably has food sensitivities & has been feed kibbles that have ingredients that are irritating his bowel & causing sloppy poo’s then diarrhea, check for blood when this is happening, he’ll need to be put on Metronidazole agian, food sensitivities can take anywhere from 1 day to 6 weeks for a dog to start reacting with sloppy poos/diarrhea, gas/wind pain & farts, he’s reacting to an ingredient he’s eating in a kibble..

You will work it out it would be good if you can put him back on the Metroniadzole for 14-21 days & feed him the cooked Chicken, Potato & egg again so his bowel can rest & heal or feed the Natures Domain Turkey & Sweet Potatoes kibble just make sure you read the ingredient list on the kibble bag first before you buy it & make sure there’s no garbanzo Beans (Chickpeas) or Lentils in the ingredients & he’ll probably do well.
keep me up dated what has happened..

[Mike Sagman]

Batch analysis ratings posted by CleanLabelProject.org and other similar websites can certainly be helpful.

However, we recommend readers exercise a reasonable degree of caution when relying exclusively on these kinds of reports.

That’s because when testing any pet (or human) food, the results can differ from day to day and vary significantly based on the specific farm or batch used as a source for any individual ingredient.

As with any laboratory study, it is absolutely critical to take a statistically significant (large) number of test samples from multiple batches to avoid a potentially misleading variable known as sampling error. You can read about that important subject here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_error

In addition, guidelines used for interpreting the results can also be changed or manipulated. This can cause certain products to be move from one rating to another. And even from “best” to “worst” lists. This has apparently already been a problem. You can read about that issue here:

Here’s Why The Clean Label Project’s Best and Worst Pet Food Results Changed

Giving any one brand a sweeping endorsement (or rejection) based on the sampling of one single batch taken from one individual product line at one point in time could be misleading and provide a false sense of security (or concern) regarding positive test results.

Even with fresh human foods (like strawberries or beef), there can be significant differences associated with test results from one batch of raw materials to the next, many times related to the soil conditions of one plot of land versus another from the same region.

What’s more, conclusions drawn from single batch testing can produce important inconsistencies. For example, on the website you reference, when you use the search box for specific brands (like Nutro, Orijen, Purina, and others), you’ll find 5-star, 3-star and 1-star individual recipes (products).

Try doing the same thing for other brands (like Nature’s Variety or Canidae) and in many cases, you’ll get similar results.

It would seem to us that the fairest way to draw accurate conclusions regarding food testing would be to collect test samples from multiple batches from different lots and collected over an extended period of time.

Otherwise, we could unfairly judge the safety of one food and give a misleading thumbs up for another.

Bottom line?

We commend CLP for its efforts. And we look forward to learning more about how its findings compare with those of others… especially to test results verified by independent third parties, peer-reviewed studies and those of the companies themselves.

Yet we’re also concerned about CLP’s lack of complete transparency and its failure to share actual test results with the public on its website.

In any case, until each batch is tested by every company with results posted on every label…

And since there’s no way of knowing which “top-rated” recipes could unexpectedly contain hidden contaminants and become the low-rated brands of tomorrow…

We continue to urge pet owners to practice the commonsense risk reduction strategies associated with the menu diversification and diet rotation methods favored by this website.

Until CLP becomes more transparent with its test data and its controversial claims have been verified by an independent third party or by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, we ask readers to refrain from posting any further references to this organization or its opinions anywhere on this website.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Mike Sagman.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: "Bottom line" section added to conclusion of comment

[anonymous]

Okay, well then.
I suggest that you find a vet that you trust and can work closely with.
PS: /disclaimer-and-disclosure/ excerpt below
Please be advised that we not veterinarians. For this reason, this website was never meant to be used as a substitute for sound professional advice.
Because the health of your dog can be directly affected by what you read here, you should always consult with a licensed veterinary professional before taking any specific action.

[Lori J]

Heres the kicker~ I think that maybe Ted has the yeast over growth inside his body and not just on his skin ~ he was on antibiotics a few months ago for a ruptured Cyst. I have been looking at the Calf Naturals also ~ I think that the kangaroo & Lentils may be a good start and may cover all the bases~ The med vet Dr is not Ted’s Cardio Dr ~ just a list I found online. When I asked Ted’s Cardio~ he just said he can have reg diet but some foods have way more sodium than others and I just want to stick on the lower side. Thanks so much for all your input. I really appreciate it!! I have spent the last few days trying read up allergies/ types of yeast/remedies/foods ~ its been crazy!

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Lori J.

[anonymous]

Example: Not sure if this poster is actually a representative of Zignature dog food?
/dog-food-reviews/zignature-dog-food/
Zignature Dog Food • 5 months ago
Hello everyone! We are always here to answer any questions, however responses through Dog Food Advisor can get a little messy. If anyone has any questions at all about our product, please feel free to contact us via Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Email and/or Phone. Please keep in mind we ourselves are pet owners who love our furry friends and we understand that you view your pets as family and want the best for them. Thank you for taking the time to read this and have a wonderful rest of your day!

[anonymous]

What about Pro Plan? https://www.k9ofmine.com/best-low-sodium-dog-food/ excerpt below

1. Purina Pro Plan Focus Sensitive Skin & Stomach Salmon & Rice Formula
About: Pro Plan Focus is a salmon-and-rice-based recipe that is designed for dogs with stomach sensitivities or food allergies. Salmon and rice are typically not allergens and most dogs are able to digest this food easily.
Price: $$
Features:
Salmon is the first listed ingredient.
Made with antioxidant-rich ingredients to help promote immune system function
Fortified with omega fatty acids to ensure joint, skin and coat health
Made without any artificial colors, artificial flavors, corn, wheat or soy

PROS: Purina Pro Plan Focus has the least sodium per calorie of any of the five foods recommended here. Most dogs appear to love the taste, and it may also provide some relief from food allergies.

CONS: Additionally, Pro Plan is made without any probiotics to help regulate intestinal function; however, it does include prebiotic ingredients, which can help support any beneficial bacteria already present in your dog’s digestive tract.
Ingredients:
Salmon, Canola Meal, Brewers Rice, Barley, Oat Meal, Fish Meal (Source of Glucosamine), Animal Fat Preserved with Mixed-Tocopherols, Salmon Meal, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Natural Flavor, Inulin, Fish Oil, Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite. J-4449.
Sodium Content:
50 milligrams / 100 Calories

[anonymous]

Go to the vet, not just when he is sick. Annual checkups and lab work. Get a diagnosis and see what the vet advises.
Blood in the feces is not normal, eating grass is not good, something is wrong.
Best of luck.

PS: /disclaimer-and-disclosure/ excerpt below
Please be advised that we not veterinarians. For this reason, this website was never meant to be used as a substitute for sound professional advice.
Because the health of your dog can be directly affected by what you read here, you should always consult with a licensed veterinary professional before taking any specific action.

[Susan]

Hi Susana,
Stop feeding the Acana, Acana is probably too rich for a dog with intestinal stress, it has organ meats, Acana is excellent for a healthy dog that doesn’t have intestinal problems.

Sounds like your boy has a few food intolerances & there’s an ingredients in the Hills I/d formula & Acana formula he’s sensitive too, this happened with my Patch when I rescued & adopted him 5yrs ago, he had rumbling, grumbling LOUD bowel noises, I’d hear him in another room, these loud noises are gases rumbling thru the bowel & can be painful, Patch would do the same eat & eat grass, then his vet said only let him eat about 2 mintues worth of grass then stop him eating grass, the long pieces of grass can tangle together & cause a blockage or the grass can cause diarrhea…
I have found a dry bit of white toasted bread is best to give when these noises are happening, dry toast seems to settle the stomach also liquid Mylanta, 1 teaspoon 5mls seems to settle the stomach & bowel aswell & stops the loud rumbling bowel noises..
Once you work out what foods he is sensitive too these rumbling bowel noises will stop…
Patch also had streaks of blood thru his poos some days, this was cause he was eating an ingredient that he was sensitive too & I didnt know it was irratating his bowel then 1 night he had diarrhea that turned into blood water, I rushed him to the vet 8am his vet said looks like he has IBD cause I had been there a few times before with stomach/bowel problems. Patch was put on a Hydrolzed vet diet Royal Canine HP & Metronidazole for 21 days the bowel needs to heal & rest but he cont digest the Royal Canine HP vet diet ended up causing other problems….
Patch hasn’t had no more problems as long as Patch doesn’t eat Chickpeas, Lentils, Barley, Oats, Beet Pulp for his bowel & Chicken Tapioca & Carrots cause itchy smelly yeasty paws ears & skin problems… Food Sensitivities/Intolerances can cause gas/wind, farts, sloppy poo, diarrhea, smelly yeasty ears, paws, skin, itchy skin, bum rubbing on ground, just depends on the dog….

Both of the vet you saw have given the Metronidazole which was good to heal his bowel but the vets should of prescribed him a limited ingredient kibble that was chicken & grain free either the Hills D/D Potato & Venison or the Potato & Duck limited ingredient formulas or the Royal Canine Select proteins, Potato & Rabbit etc…

Go to “Tractor Supply Co & look for the “4Health” Sensitive Stomach it has Egg & Potato very easy to digest limited ingredients & will help his blowel rest & heal…

Don’t feed any more kibbles that are higher then 27%-protein or high in Kcals per cup no higher then 380 Kcals per cup & don’t have too many ingredients cause there will be more chance that he’s sensitive to an ingredient the more ingredients there is & he’ll react…

then when he’s doing really well try the “4Health Sensitive Skin” it has limited ingredients & has Hydrolyzed Salmon & Pea flour very easy to digest ingredients, the Acana might have been too high in protein & very rich high in Kcals per cup, when a kibble is high in Kcals over 400 the kibble is more dense & harder to digest & when a dog has a sensitive stomach bowel it’s too hard to break down….
His smelly breath sounds like his stomach bowel is not working properly the Metronidazole will fix ths problem, my vet writes out a few repeat scripts of teh Metronidazole & I just take teh scripts to a chemist & get out, my boy still takes Metronidazole on & off if he starts getting his smelly fermenting breath, acid reflux or if I see he’s starting to do sloppy poos for more then 2 days I re start him on the Metronidazole 1 x 200mg tablet every 12 hours with food for 10-14 days then the next 10 days just give him 1x 200mg tablet with his dinner that’s for a 40lb +18kg dog but since he’s been eating the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb he’s been doing really well, I do rotate & feed other brands but this has taken me nilly 4 yrs to get Patch gut healthy again & if Im feeding him another brand kibble & he starts getting stomach/bowel symptoms I put him back on her TOTW Roasted Lamb kibble & he goes good again….finally after 2 yrs of trying all the vet diets I had joined a few face book groups for Canines with IBD, EPI & dogs were doing really well on ” 4Health” formula’s & “Taste Of The Wild’ Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb formula, TOTW Lamb has limited ingredients only has 1 meat protein Lamb, Sweet potato. potato, peas, egg, very easy to digest….

Always read the ingredient list before buying a new kibble, read what ingredients are in the Acana & the I/d formula & try & aviod these proteins & ingredients for now.. Continue with the Metronidazole stop the Acana take it back for a refund, only feed a very bland diet like the 4Health Sensitive Stomach or Sensitive Skin formula’s for now… or try the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb these formula’s do not have Chickpeas or lentils as these ingredient are harder to digest when te dogs stomach & bowel isnt working properly…
Good-luck keep me up dated with what is happening, hopefully he’ll be doing firm poos in a few days..

[Susan]

Hi Sandra,
Hills have their D/D Venison & Potato & D/D Duck & Potato wet & dry, Hills does not use soy protein in their formula’s like the Royal Canine does……My boy also has IBD he didn’t do too well on the vet diets, he does really well on “Taste Of the Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb, it only has 1 meat protein Lamb meal, Sweet potatos, potato, peas, egg etc he also did real well on “Canidae” Pure Wild” Boar & Pure Land… here’s Canidae’s formula’s the Pure range is grain free & limited ingredients.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

If your dog can eat a cooked diet I would be cooking & making his food & freezing meals…. follow “Judy Morgan” on her Face Book page she has a few really easy to make recipes, on video, her pup loaf is real easy to make. https://www.facebook.com/JudyMorganDVM/

I make lean pork rissole 1/2 cup size made into balls, I add 1 whished egg, chopped broccoli, 1 teaspoon chopped parsley & kale, put on a foiled linned baking tray & bake in the oven, turn rissoles over about 10-15mins later & drain any water & fat then bake till ready only takes about 25mins. I started just adding 1 whisk egg with 1kg (2lbs) lean pork mince then I started to add 1 new ingredient everytime I had to make another batch of the rissoles, I also boil sweet potato & freeze small 1/4 cup size pieces & mash the sweet potato + 1 pork rissole, I feed 5 small meals a day the kibble 7am, 9am 5pm & the cooked meal 12pm & 8pm, Patch can’t just eat wet tin or cooked food his poo’s are slop so having the kibble inbetween his cooked meal makes his poo’s firm..
Probably best to contact a Nutritionist your dog has a few health problems, Judy Morgan does specially made diets for dogs she might recommend one of her recipes on one of her video’s, also go on the “Balance It” site they have recipes & their Balance it powder to balance dogs diet they make special recipes diets for dogs with a few health problems, also google “Just Food For Dogs” they make special balanced diets another good person to follow is Monica Segal join her f/b group called “K-9 Kitchen”

[Susan]

Malaseb does not have to be used in conjunction with no other prescribe treatments, the only thing you need to use Malaseb shampoo with is water & leave on the paws & skin 5-10mins to kill the yeast & bacteria thats on the dogs skin…
How are you going to kill yeast on a dogs paws & skin with a gentle puppy shampoo??
I dont think you’ve ever had a dog with yeasty skin & paws Anon101 like you have written you just like adding your 2 cents worth & that’s what its worth 2c…

In Australia you can buy Malaseb Shampoo at any pet shop, vets practice or online & we have had Malaseb shampoo as far back as I can remember, it’s not a new shampoo & it’s the BEST treatment to kill yeast on a smelly itchy dog…. a small bottle of Malaseb last a long time, you don’t need to add much shampoo, 1 teaspoon shampoo goes a long way, I have had a 250ml bottle for 2 yrs now & cost me $25 Au $, now that’s worth it especially when bathing a dog weekly for 2 yrs & making your dog comfortable, itch & yeast free… there’s probably a few cheaper anti fungal shampoos out there, look on Chewys site or at Pet Shops but you get what you pay for in the end so read the ingredients, Walmart did have a copy of the Malaseb $7 but it’s been discontinued apparently, maybe Walmart has another antifungal shampoo now..
You can mix 1/2 Vinegar & 1/2 water in a square bucket & stand your dog front paws in the bucket for a couple of mins then his back paws in the bucket, the vinegar kills the yeast BUT I have found it ends up drying out the skin inbetween the paws if used daily so best to only do the 1/2 water 1/2 vinegar soak twice a week, you can also use Betadine or Dettol antiseptic wash as well instead of the vinegar but the same it dries out skin inbetween their toes & pads, the Malaseb shampoo doesn’t dry any skin & it kills the yeast & smells better..

[Susan]

Anon101,
*Potatoes are not a filler, Potato & Sweet Potato is excellent for dogs who have intestinal stress, diarrhea, boiled peeled potato is excellent to feed a dog who has stomach & bowel stress…
*Potato, Sweet Potato & Pumkin is very soothing & easy to digest when a dog is really sick..
*Pumkin is higher in fiber & can make diarrhea worse if the dog needs a lower fiber diet, alot of dogs who have IBD & IBS & EPI need less fiber in their diets, while some dogs need more fiber…

*Fillers
Pea Protein
Pea Starch
Pea Fiber
Pea Flour
*this is called “ingredient spliting” so the peas don’t become 1st 2nd or 3rd ingredient on the ingredient list they split the peas up to spread the peas lower down the ingredient list.

*More Fillers
Canola Meal
Corn Meal
Corn Bran
Corn Gluten Meal
Cereal By product
Gluten Meal
Gluten Wheat Meal
Wheat Flour
Wheat Germ Meal
Wheat Mill Run
Feathers
Soy
Hulls
Soybean Hulls
Peanut Hulls
Cottenseed Hulls
Rice Hulls
Oat Hulls
Citrus Pulp
Beet Pulp
Powdered Cellulose

There’s proably a few more fillers that I’ve missed, just google Hills, Purina & Royal Canine foods & look thru their ingredient list, you’ll see some of these fillers still being used in their Pet foods…..

[Susan]

Hi Meghann,
Stop feeding the Wellness Core, cause he has had Giardia his bowel would still be inflammed & needs to heal & rest & he needs a very easy to digest kibble, did the vet recommended feeding him “Hills I/d Digestive Care” dry kibble? it has everything he needs B-12 to heal his bowel & is very easy to digest, my boy had to stay on a Intestinal low fiber vet diet for 9-12months as soon as the 9 months was up & Patch had done firm poos every day, I started to introduce a new kibble that wasn’t too high in protein & not too high in fiber or fat around 25%-protein, 15%-fat & under 4% for fiber, & under 370 Kcals per cup, he needs to stay on the Metronidazole (Flagyl) for 21-28 days, the first 14 days he has to take Metronidazole twice a day every 12 hours with a meal then reduce to just one tablet a day at night with a meal for 10-14 days…..

Take back the Wellness Core it’s too rich, very dense kibble, high protein & probably high in fiber, no good for dogs when their stomach & bowel isn’t working properly & is inflammed, get refund & buy either “Taste Of The Wild”, Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb or look at “4Health” Duck Meal & Potato, Pork Meal & Potato or the Turkey Meal & Potato read ingredient list & get the kibble with the least ingredients, I think the Pork formula has the least ingredients like the TOTW Lamb formula & has only 332Kcals per cup, look for kibbles with Sweet Potato & Potato, if you can get the TOTW Roasted Lamb formula try this formula first, within 2 days poos will be firm again… 4Health is sold at Tractor Supply

I don’t know if it’s the lower fiber, low Kcals per cup, or the probiotics they use or cause they use purified water ?? maybe all these things put together is what makes TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb really work & help dogs with EPI, IBD, IBS, Diarrhea, after you change his food & he’s finished the course of the Metronidazole & he’s been doing really well for a while then all of a sudden you see him doing sloppy poos for 2 days straight put him back on the Metronidazole for 10-14 days give Metro twice a day every 12 hours with a meal then reduce to 1 Metronidazole at night with his dinner for another 10 days, my vet writes me a few repeat scripts & I can get out at the Chemist when I need it….but since feeding the TOTW I haven’t needed to give the Metroniazole only when I have rotated a kibble that didn’t agree with him & put his stomach/bowel bacteria out of wack again or he starts getting his bad acid reflux (Helicobacter-Pylori) he gets put back on the Metronidazole…
Then once your boy is doing really well for 9-12mths start rotating & change brand & look for a different protein source with a few different ingredients & slowly introduce the new kibble with his regular kibble over 1 month peroid, this way he’ll have 2 different brands that agree with him with a different protein source, I rotate between Lamb, Pork & Turkey, rotating between a few different brands is good to do just incase the brand your feeding has toxins or is not balanced properly your changing his kibble & he’s not eating the same brand formula 24/7 year after year… but you only start Rotating his kibbles when you get his bowel healthy again, I rotate between 3 different brands, I always feed TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb formula Patch always has very firm poos on his TOTW Lamb & I rotate with a Australian brand MfM Turkey & I just started to try Hills pork meal formula cause I was given a Hills Voucher…
Rotating will strengthen his gut/bowel, just make sure when you pick a new kible you stay around the same fat, protein & fiber % & Kcals per cup as the brand of kibble he does really well on…
Wellness Core could be too rich & the protein % is probably way too high for him at this stage, “Wellness Core”, Ocean fish & “Wellness Complete Health” White Fish were both on the “Clean Label Project” bad list for kibble with high contaminates & toxins.. Which wellness Core formula are you feeding?
http://www.cleanlabelproject.org/product-ratings/pet-food/

My boy is a rescue & has IBD & Environment Allergies & every Spring Summer Patch gets bad itchy skin so the beginning of Spring his vet said try & feed him a fish kibble that’s salmon higher in Omega 3, so spring 2015 came & I rotated with a fish kibble I feed an Australian made MfM Salmon kibble Patch was fine no diarrhea no waking me up 1am 4am with diarrhea etc, the next year in Spring I feed a new fish kibble Earthborn Holistic Ocean Fussion then around 2 months later he got his diarrhea back same with the next fish brand Wellness Complete Health Whitefish & sweet potato, then I tried Holistic Select Salmon & Potato poos were excellent he was doing good then 2-3 month later he became very ill his vet kept shaking her head & couldn’t work out what was wrong, he was fine eating the Australian made Salmon MfM kibble & he had no diarrhea, we couldn’t work out why my boy was doing really well, no diarrhea no vomiting then he ate the different American fish brands & he was really unwell, then I saw Clean Label Project in May/June & the brands I was feeding him were on the worse contaminates & toxins list, “Earthborn Holistic” Ocean Fusion Whitefish-7th, “Holistic Select” Salmon -10th & “Wellness” Whitefish I don’t know where teh WellnessComplete HealthWhitefish came but Wellpet who makes Wellness has a lawsuit against them now cause of the finding from the Clean Label Project testings..
It’s best to stay away from any kibbles that have fish in them especially when they have a sensitive stomach/bowel. I rather add fresh human tin salmon as a topper & give the K-9 Natural freeze dried Mussels as treats now to up his Omega 3 in his diet for his skin…

Your boy will get better but it just takes time, even if you have to put him on a vet diet, the Hills I/D Digestive Care dry for 6 months it can be given to puppies, then rotate & feed a limited ingredient kibble, my vet said it takes a good 9-12 months for their bowel to heal & recover, Probiotics are best given inbetween meal when their Hydrochloric acids are low in the stomach & the live cutures in the probiotics make it past the stomach into the small bowel & make sure you change his water twice a day, as soon as Patch drinks out of his water bowl I change it, I see bits of food down the bottom of his water bowl..
keeps us up dated with what worked..

[Susan]

Hi Shari,
I would be stopping the Carafate (Sulcrate) it lines the stomach so you can only give it when the stomach is completely empty so if there’s any food in his stomach the Carafate lines the food instead of his stomach & can make things worse, why has the vet got him on 3 a day? the food may not be completely digested, if he already has very low stomach acid the Carafate could be making things worse… Has he had any more gulping attacks since starting the Sulcrate or is he the same?

If you have the money have an Endoscope & Biopsies done to see what is happening in the stomach, the Biopsies will give your vet some answers, your vet must think his mouth licking & swollowing has something to do with the stomach for him to prescribe these types of drugs..
Ask your vet about “Gabapentin”?? it is used for seizures, pancreatitis, IBD, stomach problems, nerve pain, Gabapentin capsules covers a few health problems maybe see if he settles after taking the Gabapentin…

Even though you have change his food to a low fat food, how high is the fiber & carbs?? Is he on a vet dry diet kibble?? the carbs will be high & so will the fiber if its a vet diet, alot of vets prescribe the Hills W/D for dogs with Pancreatitis why I’ll never know the Insoluble fiber is 28%… Dry kibble is no good when dogs have Pancreatitis, the dry kibble could be causing acid reflux in the first place, have you tried feeding a lean meat like chicken or turkey low fiber, low carb, cooked meal, chicken breast & sweet potato & just give him the Losec 20mg every morning for 1-2 weeks & see how he goes?…. that’s what my Boxer was put on a home cooked diet by the new vet but it was too late by then, her old vet had her on the Hills vet diet it made her worse but vets never blame it’s the vet diet that’s causing the gulping swllowing drolling…..

Maybe best to have the Endoscope + Biospies done so the vet can see the stomach &
see is there’s any stomach ulcers or anything else, the biospsies will give some answers to whats happening…could be Helicobacter-Pylori, they eat & eat like they are starving, droll, swollow gulp as well..

[Taylor R]

Understanding that everyone is well-meaning on this site and just trying to find a solution to help their dog be at ease. While some of your dogs may be experiencing digestive/acid reflux issues, I CAN TELL YOU, beyond any doubt, and pursuant to our dog’s NEUROLOGIST, that my dog’s episodes are in fact seizures, and they DO last for hours. They are not at all related to any digestive/acid reflux issue but we had several run-of-the-mill vets diagnose it this way before the neurologist got involved. Omeprazole/prilosec, changing her diet, and other organic homeopathic meds did no good.

The official diagnosis from the neurologist is complex partial seizures or focal seizures. They are a series of small seizures and mis-fires in the synapses in the brain. One common way they manifest is through gulping or repetitive swallowing.

Potassium bromide worked miracles for Scarlet who has been seizure-free on the meds for 1 1/2 years and needs occasional increases in doses when she has minor breakthrough episodes.

Another popular anti-seizure medication is zonisamide – read Hines’ story and watch video here: http://www.jasonbk.com/2014/02/hiness-gulping-a-cautionary-tale/

Phenobarbitol is another option.

Wish you all the best of luck in finding solutions for your pups.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Taylor R.

[anonymous]

I didn’t watch the video, I believe I have seen what you have described. One dog with idiopathic epilepsy did very well on a low dose of phenobarbital for over 10 years.
Another dog had neurological damage related to Lyme disease, but the focus was on treating her symptoms of kidney disease caused by the Lyme. She would do the rug eating (pica) stuff occasionally, heartbreaking to watch.
Another one had hemangiosarcoma, I think it spread to her brain as she had neurological symptoms, I had already had all kinds of diagnostic testing done and was told the cancer had spread….no treatment options.
PLEASE TRUST YOUR VET, the anticonvulsant meds will keep him comfortable.

I hope you don’t fall down the anti-vet homeopathic rabbit hole. I almost did.
Go to skeptvet dot com and ask a question, nothing is being sold there.
It takes a while for your comment to show up if you are new because they don’t allow bullying and hate rantings and do a bit of screening before posting.
Of course he has not examined your dog, so he cannot give you specific advice.

[anonymous]

Has the dog had a senior workup? Labs? Neurology consult?
If not, that would be the only way to accurately diagnose him. Anything else is guesswork.
If it is not within your means, or you are not willing to have a complete workup $ done on an old dog.
Tell your vet, I mean you could spend a few hundred on x-rays and such only to be told he has an inoperable brain tumor (a cause of late in life canine seizures).
The other option would be to focus on care and comfort which may include anti-seizure medication, this may do the trick and keep your dog comfortable as it would stop the seizure activity. Read some of my prior posts in this thread. Good luck.
PS: I agree with your vet, I don’t think it’s his stomach (based on the info you have provided)
But, then again, sometimes they have more than one thing going on.
If your regular vet is willing to treat him for seizures (1 or more seizures per month) with medication, I would start there.

[Susan]

Hi Croeber,
I think it is really important to rotate between diiferent brands & feed a diffferent meat protein source & different ingredients, a rotational diet allows a beter chance of providing a more complete & balanced diet, while most dog food sold has been balanced to meet nutritional guidelines there’s always a chance that one brand might be a little deficient in a nutrient compared to another brand, by rotating a variety of foods your pet is less likely to suffer any deficiencies & rotating helps strengthen the dogs immune system & may reduce the risk off allergies or sypmtoms developing later on as teh y age this is very important for young animals…
You know your girl does well on Merrick so now look for another brand with a different protein source & different ingrdients but stay around the same protein % & fat % it doesnt have to be exactly the same fat & protein 1-3% higher or lower… some people rotate with the same brand that’s not a good idea, say that brand has toxins or high contaminates in their fish formula then the other formulas may also have the fish meal or whatever is in that brands meats etc so best to look for another brand it doesn’t have to be real expessive to be really good, look at “Clean Label Project” pet food testings some of the very expensive brands had the highest toxins & Purina got 4-5 stars ause of the lean meats tehy buy, Turkey & Chicken are suppose to be very clean meats….

I can’t be too fussy with what I feed my boy, I have to feed him what agrees with him, he was a rescue I rescued at age 4, he suffers with IBD, Skin Allergies & food intolerances, vets & his nutritionist said he probably was feed the same cheap Aldis dog food & when he was reacting with diarrhea & vomiting the owner didn’t bother changing his food or the owner changed & feed another poor quality brand that had the ingredients he was sensitive too & was reacting too, he is a prime example of a dog feed a very poor diet & was never introduced to a lot of different foods…probably why he ended up at the pound cause of his IBD, when I got him he was pooing blood & weeing blood, vet said the weeing blood would have been from being used for breeding..
I’m feed “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb grain free with Lamb meal, sweet potato, potato, peas, egg, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, formula, TOTW Roasted Lamb is Patches go to kibble that he does the best on so far…
I’ve just finished introducing Hills Science Diet, Sensitive Skin formula it’s a grain formula with rice, corn, pork meal & egg formula, I’m trying this in my rotation cause it has Pork Meal & Hills gave me a free voucher-$140, my IBD boy does really well on his cooked Pork rissoles & Sweet potato, so when I saw Hills had a Pork meal formula I had to try it & see how he does on it & he’s doing really wll he gets bad acid reflux so its very hard finding foods that agrees with his stomach & he doesn’t grind his teeth & doesn’t swollow & swollow & lick his lips, I was rotating & feed “Canidae” Pure Wild Boar & I tried the Pure Meadow Senior, “Canidae has some really good grain free & grain kibbles….
I have to give treats instead of adding foods to his kibble, he gets 1-2 freeze dried, “K-9 Natural” Green Lipped Mussels, the mussel shell is high in Glucosamine & Chondroitin for his joints & bones.
“Love Em” Mini Cookies Chicken Liver & Cranberry with DHA for immune support biscuits an Australian Brand, I’ve just started these, he was getting peeled apple pieces, he gets his Yakult probiotic drink, he gets about 1/4 of the Yakult probiotic drink in between feeds when his stomach acids are low so they dont kill the live bacteria in te probiotic & I drink the rest of te Yakult drink, he gets his yogurt ice cream only about 1 teaspoon after his dinner & if I’m running late or on the computer he tells me about his ice cream yogurt he whinges & barks at me till I get it out of the freezer. I can’t remember what else he gets at teh moment, I’ve had him 5 yrs this November & he has tried heaps & different brand kibbles & foods the Australian kibble brands are really good but some are way to high in protein & fat for him, no vet diets have worked for Patch, TOTW has been the best dry kibble so far that covers all his health problems, I’ve strengthen his gut (immune system) heaps since I got him 5 yrs ago he was always very sick before, but now he has a beautiful shinny coat, he is very healthy runs, jumps acts like a puppy doesnt seem to have any arthritis yet, (fingers X) he’ll be 9 years old on the 20th Novemeber & it’s the same day I rescued him 5 years ago his “Got You Day” he was being Put To Sleep on his birthday..

Steve Brown was asked if you had to pick 1 food to add to your dogs diet to make it healthier what would you add & Steve said, “Mussels” you can buy them in the freezer section or buy freeze dried mussels, Mussels are very healthy they have Manganese, Iodine, Fats, Vitamin D he said alot of raw diets are short of Manganese, Iodine fats & Vitamin D so add about 1-2 mussels a day + 1 tablespoon salmon & a pinch of Kelp to your dogs diet….

Follow “Rodney Habib” on his face Book page, you’ll learn heaps about adding really good healthy fresh whole foods to your dogs diet…
Sounds like your doing a pretty good job already….

[Susan]

Hi gee you’ve been thru a lot so has your poor boy, the vets would be stumped they rely on test result, they probably haven’t see anything like this before, so go with your gut if they recommend to try news drugs if it doesn’t feel right don’t give the drugs cause your dog is being a guinea pig for them to learn on, try to contact other dog owners that have been thru the same thing.
I looked & there isnt any face book groups “yet” but you could start a “Dog or Canine with IMPT group” & just wait & see if a few dog owners join & talk about what they have been thru, especially if they live in another country (Australia) they may treat with different medicines, I read that there’s been no studies done on Canines with IMTP vets only know what owners have been thru & it has been documented…

Did the meds they prescribe for IMTP make him worse & sick?? he’s probably better off with no drugs if he seems OK…..I found this site it was written by Cold Coast Verterinary Services Australia, I wonder if you contact email other pet owners who have dealt with IMTP ?? you learn so much from other pet owners what they did, what worked, what didn’t work.
http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/health/imt.htm

The Royal Canne Low Fat Gastro he’s eating has Pork as the only protein, it has rice flour instead of the boiled rice & corn, if he’s doing OK on the R/C Low Fat Gastro then that means he does OK with pork, rice & corn, the fat in the R/C low fat Gastro is 2.5%max when it’s converted to dry matter (kibble) it’s 10.45% max fat.., so if you want to cook something you can add some fresh lean cooked pork meat, you can buy some lean pork & mince thru the mincer yourself that’s what my vet does & told me to do the same for Patch, then you know what he’s eating, I was buying the human lean 5 star pork mince but Patch started to get pancreatitis symptoms, vomiting bad pancreas pain, I had bought the pork mince from a different supermarket & the fat said 5% but it must of been higher & had more fat then the other lean pork mince I was buying & Patch became real sick…

“Canidae” make their “Pure Wild Boar” dry kibble.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

there’s “Walk About” made in New Zealand & Australia they import to California, they only make Jerky & freeze dried treats & wet tin foods-Wild Boar, Wild Kangaroo & Goat, fat is 2%min when fat is converted it’s around 15%max fat.
http://walkaboutpetproducts.com/

[Therese M]

It wasn’t TOTW wet food. According to this site, Diamond makes TOTW and Kirkland, not Evanger. Evanger would never enter my house, so I’m sure I checked. If this site is wrong, then that makes me pretty uphappy, but I go by the information I find here. She’s very picky- she wouldn’t touch either kind of Kirkland canned food.

I’m confused about why you’re listing fat content? I don’t want low fat- she’s already underweight. We were told by the vet to get high calorie food, over 500 cal/cup if possible. She’s not sensitive, she’s picky.

Today’s samples included Zignature Duck (fail), Fromm Game Birds (fail), FirstMate Lamb (huge success!), FirstMate chicken (fail), FirstMate Fish (also huge success- she normally hates fish but they dont use salmon). Plus the rest of the bag of Bil Jac bc she was still hungry after not eating most those and I only had samples of the FirstMate. Unfortunately I cant get FirstMate locally so everything I have that she doesn’t like can’t be traded in for any. I’m going to try Zignature Lamb and hope it’s the lamb in the High Prairie and the FirstMate that she likes and it’ll get her through the returns at least.

[Susan]

Hi Lauren,
I woke up this morning thinking about your boy, has he eaten yet?? have you tried feeding him something you have cooked?
When you stopped the Prednisone did you do it slowely & reduce over 1 month period??
has stopped eating since you stopped the predisone?? was that when he “was” eating the Royal Canine HP then he has stopped?
also is the vet 100% sure he has IMPT?
Why I’m asking is your vet 100% certain he has IMPT is I suffer with C.R.E.S.T it’s an autoimmune disease/multisystem connective tissue disorder, but when I was 27 yrs old Dr’s first diagnosed me with Lupus…these auto immune diseases are hard to diagnosed, Dr’s only know I have CREST now cause I ended up moving & getting a really good Proffessor as my Dr & as the years have passed my symptoms for Lupus changed….

There’s “4Health” Sensitive Stomach it has NO meat or there’s 4Health Sensitive Skin & it has Hydrolzed Salmon, it comes in wet & dry, I don’t know if the meat is Hydrolyzed in the Sensitive Stomach Wet can food, I don’t have the time to google I have to be somewhere, 4Health is sold at Tractor Supply, I’ve read on a few sites dogs seem to do really well on 4Health formula’s when they have diarrhea & stomach problems, why did you stop feeding Taste Of The Wild??
I really think he needs a really good probiotic to strengthen his immune, I drink 1 “Yakult”probiotic drink every morning inbetween breakfast & lunch, when I stopped drinking my Yakult probiotic drink I started to feel sick all day, probiotics are best taken without any foods when the stomach acids are low…. I wonder if your boy is feeling sick after eating his Royal Canine? or wont he eating any foods?
He’s probably having a few different symptoms & this is when vets don’t know what’s going on??
Has he been tested for Lupus??

[Susan]

Hi Rita,
yes just recently Patch has had a 3 swollowing episodes after eating his breakfast in the last 3-4 months but I noticed it only happens around 8am when he hasn’t drank any water after eating his breakfast & gone for his morning walk, he just comes home & goes straight to bed & has a sleep then wakes up 20-30mins later & comes to me swollowing & gulping & wants to go outside & eat grass also I haven’t giving him his Losec yet, I give him his Losec around 8.30-9am, he has been taking 20mg Losec 20mg every day now for about 18mths now, I’d say Patches swollowing gulping is from the kibble swelling in his stomach & there’s no water & te dry kibble comes back up into throat into his mouth or his Losec dose needs to be increased & 1/2 a 20mg Losec tablet needs to be given at night 12 hours after his morning dose was given, I’ll have to talk with his Vet but first I’m making sure its not cause he doesn’t drink water after eating his breakfast & morning walk …. but I think it’s from not drinking any water after eating breakfast cause this is the only times it seems to happen around 8am, I make sure after he eats breakfast & when we comes home from his
7.15am walk, he has a little drink of his water, I take over a bowl of water if he’s gone straight to his bed when we come home, I’m noticing he is becoming lazy or his lower back might be hurting him we have just found a weird bone growth out of the top of his back leg into his spine, we thought it’s not bothering him but after watching him closely thise last 2 months thru Winter I think this bone growth might be bothering him, Staffys are so hard to read, they don’t show when they have pain…

I would give the Prilosec & Metronidazole twice a day for how long vet has prescribe it. How long has your vet prescribe the Metronidazole & Prilosec for?? 21 days is best, so the Metronidazole can kill the bad bacteria living in the stomach walls, then when the Metronidazole course is finished continue giving the Prilosec but only give 1 x 20mg Prilosec a day in the morning, it’s best to give Losec of a morning, works better my Gastro Dr said & so did Patches IBD vet, Prilosec doesn’t have to be taking before food like other ant acid meds need to be taken… At the moment you’d be giving the Metronidazole with food & giving them together…
This is awful to watch but go on Google & google “My Dog having Seizure” they don’t gulp or swollow & if 1 dog licks mouth in video its cause he’s feeling sick from the seizure, he’s not gulping & swollowing like my boy does….
When the acid comes up their throat into their mouth, they don’t know what to do so they try & swollow & swollow the acid, they need either a dry biscuit or some liquid Mylanta to soothe the acid reflux back into the stomach or grass to vomit up all the acid… I really think once your dog takes his Prilosec daily he’ll be better & more comfortable..& watch everything he does & when does he have his swollowing & gulping attack is it after eating is it when he hasnt eaten all night etc…