[Naturella]

@Oleanderz, I would probably be the odd man out here, because I don’t see most of what I do for Bruno as “spoiling” although others have told me that he is spoiled, lol. If I feed him good food with good toppers, take him to the dog park, play with him, do his nails, brush and bathe him, get him healthy treats and keep track of what treats he likes (it is pretty easy – he likes everything, lol), get him a new antler when the old one is almost chewed up, get him novel chews/toys, I don’t see any of it as spoiling. Now… we’re not really into dressing him up and probably wouldn’t buy him doggie shoes unless we lived somewhere real hot or real cold most of the year, so he only has one raincoat that he doesn’t like so he never wears, lol. Only clothes we would get him are probably NY Jets gear, lol! 🙂

And we don’t really know his Birthday, but it is probably something like early March… March 1st maybe, IDK. So I can just pick a date, but I am so finicky, I can’t decide when I want to think he was born, lol. But I do know the day we adopted him, July 27th, 2013, so that’s his “gotcha” day and I didn’t celebrate it last year, but I want to from now on. I would probably feed him a balanced all-raw meal or something, go to the park/lake, let him run, play, swim, then wash him up and snuggle him up!

I guess one way we “spoil” him is that during the night he’s not allowed on our bed – he sleeps at the foot of the bed in his favorite bean bag, which used to be my husband’s desk chair, lol. Well, Bruno claimed it and we let him, especially because Brian has an office chair now. So Bruno has the bean bag, and a bed in the bathroom (Costco bed, really nice, washable covers), and a bed on the deck that used to be his bathroom bed till he started eating his RMBs on it, so now it’s an outside bed for that purpose, just to eat RMBs on. Nowadays he has dried chicken or duck feet inside instead of an RMB on Sunday, cause it’s been so cold, but when it warms back up, he will have his RMBs again!
But, back to the spoiling – in the morning, when we start waking up, Bruno wakes up too and sleepily staggers onto the bed and comes over to shower us with puppy kisses, and we snatch him up, put him under the covers with us, and snuggle him for some snooze time. He loves snoozing in our arms in the morning. He is so peaceful and cute when asleep/sleepy! So I guess that’s his daily spoiling. 🙂

[Daniel F]

Hi Bulldogmom,

Dr Becker’s book outline recipes containing the ingredients you listed. I am currently reading this book and am hoping to begin implementing it into my daily feeding. By the way, she does pay a good deal of attention to calcium/phosphorus balance as she believes it’s most crucial for proper puppy bone development.

[david c]

i’m getting an irish wolfhound puppy in a week or two, i’ve had two wolfhounds and they were both raised on Iams. The first lived to she was almost 12yr and the second 7yrs and came down with a cancer called angiosarcoma but she had issues with changes in her stool regularly. I’ve been reading about dog foods and now i’m so confused about which food to use with all the different ingredents and so many different brands, brands that i never heard of or seen before in the pet stores in my area and i’m just wondering if i should just feed her real store bought food to elminate reading labels and all the guess work in what percentage of protein,fats, and carbohydrates exist and where they came from. Its way too much work. Can you feed a puppy home cooked food?

[Lyndel M]

Hi Gloria,

Yes, there is certainly a lot of confusion amongst the raw and the cooked dog food camps. I have been reading heaps about it. Those in the raw food camp put forward for the raw food diet. I shall do my best to summarise a few of the key points that are important to me. First, they say that the dog’s metabolism has changed very little from the wolves, the original wild dogs. They suggest that when we provide our dogs with the right proportions of meats, organ meats, vegetables, fruit matter and bones, they’re digestive systems have the best chance of exacting the nutrients they need for shiny coats, healthier skin and teeth, stronger bones, and decreased chances of modern-day ailments and diseases that dogs in the wild rarely if ever have. Some of these ailments include itching, skin irritations, including dryness, fleas, hip dysplasia and arthritis.

In the other camp, there is some criticism of the raw diet saying that giving a dog only food i.e., meats risks feeding contaminated food, that people don’t take enough care in raw food preparation, that dogs today have evolved to adjust to modern (cooked, commercial) food and that dogs are at moderate – high risk of injuries from bone which become lodged in the throat or gut.

I am definitely against using any commercial dog foods. There are some great you-tube documentaries disclosing the shocking truth about the poor quality of nutrition of kibble and canned dog foods and the associated illnesses. In addition, that most Vets receive very little real knowledge of nutrition in their veterinarian studies and are just as influenced by the unregulated marketing and commercial dog food producers as GPs are by drug companies.

Regardless, Jean Hofve & Celeste Yarnall “Paleo Dog” is one book that has been recommended provide excellent information for providing your dog with all of the information needed to provide our dogs with all of the nutrients required and how to do so, if we want to go down the raw food pathway. Also there is the BARF raw foods that you can purchase and other online info about this pathway. And there are heaps of recipes for cooking our dogs food as well. Andi Brown “The Whole Pet Diet: 8 wks to great health for dogs and cats”, which is also excellent for going down the cooked food pathway. They both recommend certain supplements and they both provide enough evidence to suggest that just like for humans, if we give our pets fresh wholesome, organic foods (either raw or cooked) we will be doing our beloved pets a great service.

Given I have been a passionate advocate of healthy, unprocessed foods for more 40years, I certainly want to extend this to my pet. People on this post have just been concerned that I was being cruel to our new puppy for placing his food into chewtoys. However, I made the mistake of saying that we would be putting all of his daily foods into chewtoys, whereas that won’t be the case. But I will definitely using chewtoys together with crate training, self-soothing, stimulation and entertainment as I mentioned in my previous post. I am definitely not an expert, but a concerned pet owner who has done lots and lots of reading in order to do the best by our new puppy in terms of nutrition and training. All the best!! :0)

[Lyndel M]

Hi again,

Thank you for all of your comments. However, can I say that I was responding to another member’s query as to how to stuff chew toys when she is using a raw food diet and I provided with options from my own my own research and provided a link.
However, given some of the confusion that, i) it is cruel to make a puppy work so hard for its food by giving all of its food in a chewtoy, ii) that they can’t get all of their nutritional needs met from a chewtoy due to the difficulty of getting all of food out, especially the raw meat out; iv) the raw food may go off or the chew toy become contaminated with raw food left in there and cleaning difficulties etc. Yes! I agree to most of those responses.
A puppy has very specific needs indeed. He/she needs a balance of 70% protein, 20% carbs !0% veg/fibre. Their protein should also include 10% organ meat, with only 5% of that being organic liver.
I am going on my own research and as most of your know there are many benefits to using stuffable chew toys and food puzzles. Dr Ian Dunbar (a UK vet and one of the first positive dog trainers) recommends that for the first few days to a week only feeding you puppy either by hand or in chew toys to teach them i) bite inhibition;ii) to teach the a chewtoy habit so they only chew on appropriate chew toys. However, in his day in the 80’s kibble was viewed as the best food for all dogs and he did feel his puppy’s chewtoys with kibble.

We do not intend to feed all of my puppy’s meals in a kong and we will not be leaving our puppy unsupervised…ever! We have used chew toys with previous pets and of course know the importance of cleaning. While our puppy is getting positively conditioned to his portable crate, his chew toys will be in there for him to chew on for entertainment and teaching him to self-sooth for those times in the future when he will need to be on his own. Outside of his crate (which by the way, will only be used in this way for the first few weeks), his food will be hand fed and given as treats in his training sessions.

I have found and spoken to a holistic vet in my area and will of course be guided by her expertise. We will also be supplying certain omega -3 & 6 rich oils for a shiny coat and skin health and other vitamin supplements. We love and have always loved dogs, however, this will be the first time that we will be introducing raw food into the diet after our growing awareness of how poor the quality (even premium) commercial dog foods are. Given the controversy around raw vs cooked food, my partner and I have decided to offer a mixture of both home cooked and raw food.

As most of you know that daily physical exercise is essential for a healthy pet, I am a big advocate of not allowing our pet just sit all day with nothing to do except sleep and wait anxiously for us to come home for his walk. So chewtoys are great for reducing anxiety and boredom and providing mental stimulation.

As our pup grows, we will of course be providing some of his meals in bowls and some in puzzles, kongs etc and some still by hand.

It is great to see though that some of you who are concerned about the issue of animal cruelty are being outspoken about this, we are all definitely on the same page there. I am passionate about preventing cruelty to all animals and humans. Have a good day!

[Dori]

Hi Oleanderz. If you are going to wait to have her spayed until the summer when you are home from college then you can start to transition her to a different and better food right away. Just do it slowly as all transitions should be done with a dog that is not accustomed to rotation feeding.

As to fruits. Many of us routinely feed our dogs fruits (small pieces depending on the size of your dog). Bananas are perfectly fine. I think what Naturella was trying to tell you is that certain fruits and veggies should never been given to a dog such as grapes, raisins, onions. If you are given your dog a fruit make sure not to give any seeds or pits. They can be toxic. For feeding apples, remember no seeds and no peel. Apples are some of the most heavily sprayed fruits of all with pesticides trying to keep worms at bay and then all the wax that is applied to make them look pretty for the consumer so it is always best to peel them. We shouldn’t be eating the peels ourself unless purchasing organic apples from your local farm market. I give my dogs apples, bananas, blueberries, carrots, cucumbers, peaches, pears, all types of melons, broccoli, the list goes on and on. You can google what fruits and vegetables are safe to give your dogs. Or in reverse you can google what fruits and veggies should not be given to your dog.

I don’t think that weight loss or gain is going to become an issue once she’s spayed. I’ve never had that occur with any dog I’ve had spayed or neutered and all my dogs have been spayed or neutered.

If your dog drinks a lot of water or at least a normal amount of water that you don’t also have to add water to a wet food. If feeding just dry food than it is always a good idea to add a little warm water to the kibble. Helps break down the kibble sooner thereby with digestion and helping the kibble to break down and move through the system sooner and the more water a dog drinks the healthier their kidneys will be also. Most dogs don’t really drink as much water as they should especially with a dry food. The longer a food sits in their system the more possibility there is for bacteria buildup which is why it’s always advised to make sure a dog always has free access to water. The only exception to that I find is when you have a puppy and you are trying to potty train but that’s a completely different method for another day.

Another thing if I haven’t mentioned it somewhere along the way is what you say is your dog’s “strange” eating habits. The correct way to feed a dog is to put his/her bowl of food down and leave it there for 20 minutes then pick it up regardless of how much she has eaten. Even if she didn’t eat any of it, pick it up. At her next meal time, not when you think she’s hungry, but at her regularly scheduled p.m. meal, put her food bowl down and again, leave it for 20 minutes. Same routine. Pick it up regardless of what she ate or didn’t it. You may have to initially stay with her in the room while she eats so that she doesn’t decide to follow you around. Once she’s retrained you won’t have to do that. Keep doing this for both her meals every single day. In a few days all dogs figure out that when food appears they must eat it because it’s going to disappear. I’ve never known a single dog that didn’t learn that. Leaving her food down all day for her to pick at it has led to her “strange” eating habits. You just have to teach her that when food is given she is to eat it and if she doesn’t she will have to wait until the next meal time. While you are retraining her you MUST NOT give her any treats during the day and in between meals or she won’t be hungry to eat her food. It’s okay if you give her a little treat later in the evening after her meals have been eaten but while training with the correct way to feed and eat she cannot be given any treats. She’s probably getting so many “treats” that she’s not really all that hungry when food comes along or she prefers her treats and knows she doesn’t really have to eat the food because treats will be coming her way.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Dori.

[Dori]

My concern aquariangt with the OP is that she is talking about a puppy that she will be getting in a couple of weeks. Feeding out of a Kong is perfectly acceptable to me as are slow feeding bowls for adult dogs, not puppies. Puppies have needs that must be met by feeding three or four times a day. She has also stated that she wants to feed a raw diet. In my opinion it is completely inappropriate to have raw food for a puppy stuffed into a Kong not knowing how long the food will be in the Kong while the puppy tries to figure out how to get it out and if, in fact, the puppy is even capable of getting it all out and then there is the problem of thoroughly cleaning the inside of the Kong. I have no issues whatsoever if she wants to hold out one of the puppies daily meal and put that into a kong (only if it’s a dehydrated or freeze dried food). I love Kong’s . I use them myself for my three. I make up a batch of dehydrated and freeze them. They are a great source of entertainment for dogs of all ages. I just want to make sure that the rest of the days meal the puppies nutritional and caloric needs are met.

[Lyndel M]

While I wouldn’t be giving my pup raw food until my holistic vet approved of it, I would encourage you to have a look at Ian Dunbar’s e-book “After you get your puppy”
http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/downloads/AFTER_You_Get_Your_Puppy.pdf. While I can understand that you think putting a certain amount of a puppy’s daily portion of food into a stuffable chew toy is cruel, I thought so too until I began doing my own research about dog training and teaching a pet good manners right from the beginning rather than focusing on what he does wrong (i.e., like ending up chewing things he shouldn’t be). Also, there are many benefits to placing a portion of the pups daily food allowance in chewtoys. For example, it entertains and stimulates them (in the wild, dogs naturally have to work for their food, even chewing the meat off of bones), it is a highly effective means of providing the pup appropriate things to chew on especially when teething, and it offers soothing and teaches them to self-soothe and entertain themselves rather than always expect you to entertain them. By the way, none of these are my own ideas, as I said, this comes from my own extensive research. But what you do and feed your own pups and beloved pets is your own choice. Good luck with it!

[Dori]

Hi Gloria K. I would certainly not beat you up for your “humble opinion”. It’s mine also. A puppy needs to be fed 3 – 4 times a day in a bowl and given water readily available. If one wants to put kibble or whatever ingredient (not raw) in a kong for entertainment purposes in addition to their meals that’s one thing (assuming you’re not over feeding the puppy), but certainly not his meals. The things people think of (the book, not the OP) is always mind boggling.

I do not believe that raw food should be put in a Kong. As a raw feeder myself let me say it’s a very bad idea. Dehydrated is okay as it’s not raw, but not raw food in a Kong. IMHO!!!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Dori.

[Gloria K]

My thought? I maybe wrong but making a young puppy work for his food when he’s very hungry just seems kind of well, cruel to me. Again I may be wrong but if a hungry puppy wants to eat he should be able to eat. He could become very frustrated if the food doesn’t come out fast enough. Don’t beat me up over this it’s just my humble opinion but that’s how I feel. I’m not one for gimmicks and creative games when it comes to feeding dogs.
I have no objection to the Kong for treats- my Mickey loves his Kong. But when he wants to eat he wants to eat.

[Diana B]

Hi Michael – thanks. I did know this. I actually spoke with the Fromm’s head nutritionist when I questioned whether I could put my puppy on their lamb and lentil grainfree- my 2 year old Oliver thrives on it!! He told me about this new food but I haven’t been able to see the ingredients list as of last week. Where did you find the info? I would be very interested in feeding this but I would hope it would be a highly rated food!

[Jennifer B]

What do you think of Kinetic dog food? At my local feed store this food comes highly recommended? And what are your thought on feeding a larger breed puppy the whole earth farms grain free chicken and turkey dog food the calcium max is 1.62 and phosphorus at 1.08 ? Thanks Jenny

[Jaymeson212]

My friends dog had been acting very sluggish for a couple of months. So my friend decided to start feeding the dog vegetarian food. She had a good eating plan for him. The result… he’s running around like a puppy. BTW, I think he was about 10+ years old.

[Flowers]

Hi all

So I am getting into a tizz I started weaning my now 11 week old standard Dachshund off Royal Canin and onto Acana. I chose Acana Puppy & Junior. He currently weighs 5kg and is having 4 meals a day until next week when it goes down to 3 meals a day.

But I am confused I simply don’t understand how much I should be feeding. When I measure for example 30g in the measuring cup provided by Acana and then measure that same amount on scales it comes to a completely different weight.

So firstly is the Acana measuring cup inaccurate? Should I continue to use scales to weigh out the food?

And secondly please please can somebody help me to work out how much acana puppy and junior I should feed an 11 week puppy weighing 5kg based currently on 4 meals a day?????

I emailed the Acana customer service and they responded by saying ” You can use the Puppy and Junior, but I would follow the feeding guide for the Small Breed Puppy.” This doesn’t help me at all because it is a completely different chart

http://www.acanapetfoods.co.uk/acatalog/ACANA_Feeding_Guide_2012.pdf

I could really do with some guidance – thank you 🙂

[crazy4cats]

Hi Kathy H-
It is my understanding that puppy and all life stages foods have the same requirements. And, many on this site state that it is fine to feed a dog of any age either. However, it is not OK to feed a puppy adult food until they are full grown.

Check out this link for more information: /frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/.

Do you breed small or large dogs? There are certain calcium requirements for large breed puppies: /best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/.

Good luck!

[Kathy H]

As a breeder I have many ages of dogs…. from puppies to adults. So, my question is this…. Should I choose an All Life Stages dog food for all, or, do I feed a specific puppy mix and adult food? Im not convinced that all life stages has what developing puppies need to strive. I find my dogs thrive better on the sea food mixes…. any suggestions or thoughts on this? Note: for all my newborns up to when they go to new homes, I do feed a puppy chow. My customers do look to me for suggestions on what to feed the pup and for how long to keep the pup on puppy food…..

[Naturella]

Peggy, this is odd… Do you think they are self-regulating somehow and have been getting enough calories? I have heard/read that if a dog truly is hungry, they will eat when they get to that point of true hunger… Or, they are sick, but I hope that’s not it. How have they been eating today, if at all?

As for us, Bruno and Snowy (this weekend I am dog-sitting the dog of the family I babysit for) had 1/4 cup of Acana Pacifica dry with 1/2 3.5oz can of sardines in water, and 1/2 tsp THK Perfect Form each. Bruno’s stool has been good, just a tad softer since we switched to Wysong Nurture with Quail, so I have been giving him PF this week to firm him back up. So far so good, he’s almost back to normal. On Saturdays he always has a fish-based kibble with his sardines, and these days it is Acana Pacifica. Next up I have a small bag of GO! Sensitivity and Shine Salmon.

Dinner today will be 1/4 cup of Wysong each, with 1 tsp each of Sojo’s Turkey, and 1/2 tsp each of PF.

Tomorrow’s breakfast will be 1/4 cup Wysong again with 1 tsp of Sojo’s Beef, 1/2 tsp PF. Dinner tomorrow will be dried duck feet! 🙂

Right now Snowy is on Wellness CORE Puppy, but she’s had Wysong before and did well on it, and she is so good about switching foods up now, so she is fine with the variety. I have a lot of dog food at my house so I don’t mind feeding an extra pup for a few days. 🙂

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Naturella.

[BulldogMom]

Hi all! My puppy is 8 weeks and I’m wanting to get away from the dry dog food and feed him a raw diet. I’ve been researching for hours and I cannot find a good raw recipe to start him on. It seems like everyone just feeds in whole rather than mixing… I did find one recipe with ground beef and rice but I’m wanting something with chicken, veggies, fruit, etc. Can someone PLEASE help me? I have no idea where to start. I need some recipes, a menu, something! I’m feeling absolutely discouraged. I was looking for something I could freeze in bulk rather than spending a ton of money on whole chicken, turkey, etc. for different days.

He’s an 8 week old American bulldog.

Thanks in advance!

[BulldogMom]

Hi all! My puppy is 8 weeks and I’m wanting to get away from the dry dog food and feed him a raw diet. I’ve been researching for hours and I cannot find a good raw recipe to start him on. It seems like everyone just feeds in whole rather than mixing… I did find one recipe with ground beef and rice but I’m wanting something with chicken, veggies, fruit, etc. Can someone PLEASE help me? I have no idea where to start. I need some recipes, a menu, something! I’m feeling absolutely discouraged. I was looking for something I could freeze in bulk rather than spending a ton of money on whole chicken, turkey, etc. for different days.

He’s an 8 week old American bulldog.

Thanks in advance!

[Bralic H]

Ok, so I have St.Bernard/Great dane/Lab mix. He is just about 1 year old and roughly 95 to 100 lbs. I have been feeding him (Nature’s Variety Prairie Large Breed Puppy Chicken Meal & Brown Rice Medley Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag) from chewy.com. but the price just went up 20$ per bag so I am looking for a new food. I have several selected that are closer to my price range, but then I started to wonder, when should I be switching to adult food? He doesn’t seem to have grown much in the last few months, Would it be ok to order a large breed dog food instead of puppy? I want him to live a long and happy life, as him and my 3 month old daughter seem to be getting along great! His name is Wrex! This is him at about 2 months.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Bralic H.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Bralic H.

[Diana B]

I have 2 Goldens. Oliver, now 2 was raised on Orijen large breed puppy and continues to eat grain free. Leo, now 5 months is eating Fromms large breed puppy, but I am transitioning him to Orijen, so he too can be grain free. Wellness Core Puppy would be my next choice. And besides being grainfree, (Goldies are notorious for skin issues,) both foods, Orijen and Wellness, have the DFA’s 5 star rating and are for large breed puppies. That helped me decide. Also, there is a new article about feeding large breed puppies on this site you will find helpful! Make sure you switch foods gradually if you change them. I made that mistake with Leo, and have changed my definition of “gradually.” Hope this helps!

[Katherine S]

Based on dogfoodadviser’s 5 star rating on wellness core puppy grain free I am feeding it to my new golden retriever puppy. I spoke to someone today that felt grain free promoted too much growth for puppies….anyone have knowledge on this?
Thanks
Katherine Schantz

[Kimi_forever]

One time our local petco had cans of instinct and wellness for like .15-50cents a can and we stocked up on a bunch only to bring it home and the cats not eat it and us have to give it away…ill have to try and find ways to get some decent cans for cheaper, i was pricing what it would cost to feed weruva, and that would be like 70$ a cat for a 24 day period :-0….20 dollars a month sounds amazing, thats about what it costs to feed them orijen kibble, i dont know where i could find cans of wellness or halo around where i live for that price or online…But basically what you said in your second paragraph seems to be the only solution…

from that catinfo.org site they give a recipe for feeding like you said about 5-6oz a day instead of 10oz a day in canned and using antibiotic free chicken thighs as the source of protein. Only thing is it’s a mixture of homecooked and raw that the vet on that site recommends but her estimated costs after supplements and all and her practical suggestions of locating cheap meat (from whole foods) make it seem very practical. I also like that unlike the canned foods which almost always have something extra in them that i dont want that we have complete control over every ingredient in the food….It makes me jealous that i want to be able to provide this for my dog too. But feeding an 85lb dog raw and a 10lb cat are two different things, that’d be 1.7-2.5lbs for my dog and i do not not know where i can get the organ meat and bones i need for my dog ill have to stick to Orijen for my dog for now. but i found this guide on the internet and it also looks easy to follow so i might make the full transition for both animals at some point http://puppybutt.weebly.com/uploads/7/6/9/2/7692088/beginners_guide_to_prey_model_raw_rv.4.1.pdf …

[Stephanie S]

I would like to start feeding my dogs real food – meats, veggies, fruits (whole food/clean eating for dogs?) because I feel our mid-grade dog food formula has changed and ‘high-quality’ foods seem way too expensive for my large breeds. I really don’t know where to start or how much to feed. I’ve done boiled chicken or beef and rice when one was sick as a puppy and it worked really well for her. We have a 95 lb chocolate lab/possible great dane mix who is 5 years old, and a lab/mastiff mix who is 1 year old and about 75-80 lbs. The older dog has always seemed like he’s starving by the time dinnertime comes around, although that could be a behavioral issue since he is a rescue who was found roaming the woods and finally captured after several weeks. The younger dog has suddenly taken to eating the other dog’s poo (sorry, so gross). I just feel they aren’t getting the proper nutrition. They really like carrots, pumpkin and sweet potato!

[LabsRawesome]

Hi Flowers, welcome to DFA! Congratulations on your new Dachshund puppy! I also have a Dachshund, he turns 2 in February. I rescued him at 6 months. He is my first small dog. His name is Blue and he is adorable, friendly, and affectionate. Please make sure to socialize him properly. Take him everywhere you can, and just let people love on him. Socialize him with lots of different sizes of friendly dogs too. I have 2 other dogs. A Lab named Trinity, and a Springer Spaniel named Cooper. I feed a mix of kibble and canned. Between the 3 dogs I go through 2 cans and 5 cups of dry per day. The only reason that I even use kibble is because I cannot afford to feed 100% canned. For 1 small Doxie it wouldn’t be expensive at all tho. My food recommendation to you would be to put him on canned food, it is much more species appropriate than kibble, because kibble has no moisture. With canned the food is moisture rich, closer to it’s original state, and preservative free. I would love to see some pics of your puppy. 😀

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by LabsRawesome.

[Heather H]

I need some help. I have a 1 year old large Rhodesian Ridgeback. We have had food issues from the beginning with him. The breeder had him on a mix of Taste of the Wild High Prairie Puppy Formula and Diamond Naturals Large Breed Puppy. When we got him at 8 weeks we transitioned him to straight Taste of the Wild High Prairie Puppy Formula. Shortly after this transition he started having some difficulty having a bowel movement. He would go once regular, and then shortly after he would go again but it would be very skinny. Sometimes he would continue to try to go for sometime afterwards with nothing coming out. Our vet said it was probably just a nerve that wasn’t fully developed yet and that was making him feel like he needed to keep going. She said as long as he was having regular bowel movements, and he wasn’t vomiting, we shouldn’t worry and it would probably clear up on it’s own. At our five month check up, I brought it up again because it seemed to be getting worse. She did an x-ray and determined he was backed up, his stomach was still very full of food (even though it had been several hours since he ate) and he had several pockets of gas. She said there were a few places where his bowel looked inflamed and thickened. She put him on a pro-biotic and an anti-inflammatory pill for a week. It wasn’t any better on the medication. She was concerned that his stomach wasn’t emptying property and his waste wasn’t moving through the bowel as it should. She did a barium study to rule out any internal issues. Everything came back normal so she said it must be the food and recommended their in-house brand Prescription Diet D/D. After research, I decided not to try that kind, but instead find a food that was rated 4 or 5 that agreed with him. We spent the next 3 months transitioning to different foods. We tried other flavors of Taste of the Wild, Diamond Naturals Grain Free Beef and Sweet Potato, and one other, I can’t remember the name of at the moment. Some caused diarrhea, some made his bowel movement issues worse and he strained more. Finally, we tried Merrick Grain Free Buffalo and his bowel movements got drastically better. I still don’t believe they are 100% normal, but at least to the point where he wasn’t straining or trying to go for an extended time with nothing coming out. He has been on this for 4 with no changes or issues. I just bought another bag and it has caused HORRIBLE, uncontrollable diarrhea. We have taken it away, fed rice and pumpkin, twice. Each time we start mixing a little of the food back in, one feeding of less than 1/4 of a cup of food in 1 cup of rice/pumpkin mix, causes horrible diarrhea again. The second time we took it away we took him to the vet and she put him on a pro-biotic and an antibiotic. He was on those medicines and rice and pumpkin only for a week. When we reintroduced, it was the same thing. I have emailed the company. I’m not sure if we just got a bad batch or we need to switch foods. Should I just go buy another bag of Merrick and hope it isn’t the same batch and it works? Should I try the Chicken Merrick? My store only stocks a few bags at a time, and I am worried they are from the same batch. I have spent the morning researching foods. Some grain free options I have come up with that our local stores sell are: Blue Wilderness, Wellness Core, and Earthborn. I would be willing to order something but I have nothing except for the potentially bad Merrick to mix with so we would be starting something new without a transition. I am wondering now if maybe he needs grains or even if he could possibly have colitis and need a high fiber diet? Does anyone have some insight or suggestions for me? Thanks!

[Heather H]

I need some help. I have a 1 year old large Rhodesian Ridgeback. We have had food issues from the beginning with him. The breeder had him on a mix of Taste of the Wild High Prairie Puppy Formula and Diamond Naturals Large Breed Puppy. When we got him at 8 weeks we transitioned him to straight Taste of the Wild High Prairie Puppy Formula. Shortly after this transition he started having some difficulty having a bowel movement. He would go once regular, and then shortly after he would go again but it would be very skinny. Sometimes he would continue to try to go for sometime afterwards with nothing coming out. Our vet said it was probably just a nerve that wasn’t fully developed yet and that was making him feel like he needed to keep going. She said as long as he was having regular bowel movements, and he wasn’t vomiting, we shouldn’t worry and it would probably clear up on it’s own. At our five month check up, I brought it up again because it seemed to be getting worse. She did an x-ray and determined he was backed up, his stomach was still very full of food (even though it had been several hours since he ate) and he had several pockets of gas. She said there were a few places where his bowel looked inflamed and thickened. She put him on a pro-biotic and an anti-inflammatory pill for a week. It wasn’t any better on the medication. She was concerned that his stomach wasn’t emptying property and his waste wasn’t moving through the bowel as it should. She did a barium study to rule out any internal issues. Everything came back normal so she said it must be the food and recommended their in-house brand Prescription Diet D/D. After research, I decided not to try that kind, but instead find a food that was rated 4 or 5 that agreed with him. We spent the next 3 months transitioning to different foods. We tried other flavors of Taste of the Wild, Diamond Naturals Grain Free Beef and Sweet Potato, and one other, I can’t remember the name of at the moment. Some caused diarrhea, some made his bowel movement issues worse and he strained more. Finally, we tried Merrick Grain Free Buffalo and his bowel movements got drastically better. I still don’t believe they are 100% normal, but at least to the point where he wasn’t straining or trying to go for an extended time with nothing coming out. He has been on this for 4 with no changes or issues. I just bought another bag and it has caused HORRIBLE, uncontrollable diarrhea. We have taken it away, fed rice and pumpkin, twice. Each time we start mixing a little of the food back in, one feeding of less than 1/4 of a cup of food in 1 cup of rice/pumpkin mix, causes horrible diarrhea again. The second time we took it away we took him to the vet and she put him on a pro-biotic and an antibiotic. He was on those medicines and rice and pumpkin only for a week. When we reintroduced, it was the same thing. I have emailed the company. I’m not sure if we just got a bad batch or we need to switch foods. Should I just go buy another bag of Merrick and hope it isn’t the same batch and it works? Should I try the Chicken Merrick? My store only stocks a few bags at a time, and I am worried they are from the same batch. I have spent the morning researching foods. Some options I have come up with that our local stores sell are: Blue Wilderness, Wellness Core, and Earthborn. Does anyone have some insight or suggestions for me? Thanks!

[Carol M]

My four month old newfie’s father weighs 200 lbs. I have already tried two different Candidae foods for him and he gets terrible diarrhea. The breeder had him on Kirland Puppy and Pedigree. I want to feed him something higher quality but not so rich as to cause diarrhea. It gets very confusing as some people say the higher fat and protein causes diarrhea, yet others say it’s the grains. I am considering Orijen Large Breed Puppy or Castor and Pollux. Does anyone have any input on these or other foods for giant breed puppies that doesn’t cause diarrhea? Thank you so very much.

[Leslie H]

Maybe I’ve been too busy elsewhere, but I wasn’t even aware of the BB controversy. I’ve been feeding my dog BB Wilderness chicken since he was a puppy. He’s now two and a half. Lately, though, he just doesn’t seem that interested in it. I’m not sure what’s going on. I’ve been “supplementing”…aka bribing him…to eat by adding small bits of meat from our meals from our meals. But if BB is not the best dog food for him anyway, it seems, do you have a recommendation for a mixed breed, usually fairly active dog who is really not seeming too interested in his food right now? I think he may be a little low energy now (which is totally unlike him) because he’s not eating well. Any recommendations on a good dog food that will actually appeal to him? Thank you SO much for any suggestions. Meanwhile, I hope PetCo will take back the new unopened bag of BB. 🙂

[Susan W]

I have a 8 yr black LAB and 3 yr old Beagle on the CaniSource Grain Free Fish

Generally, when I mention this product, it is unknown to 90% of people I talk to; yet the marketing sounds like product is too good to be true; they claim product is 100% human grade; inspected with the same process as human plants – but then that being said, how good is the human grade meat and inspection ?

Curious
1) why it does not have “complete and balanced” on the box ?
2) why is the rating 4, not 5 on this website ?
3) can I believe the marketing – no more allergies, 100% human grade etc ?
4) should I be concerned with a straight “fish diet”
5) generally, why is this product not popular – it appears over expensive, but you feed less
6) why are the vets so against it ?? –

I do have a lot of questions, but why do I keep feeding it – the results I see in my Lab is why I have continued –

My black Lab has elbow dysplasia and was taking glucosamine;
Since the switch to CaniSource, I have discontinued the glucosamine, and if anything his leg is better; he has a higher energy level on this food (almost like a puppy), and what really stands out is his coat is nice and shinny, where before it was dull and coarse.

After reviewing this website, I am thinking of trying a switch to ACANA,

[Z B]

This is what I am using in my current rotation :

Canned:
Walmarts Pure Balance puppy food, $1, 5 star
Tractor Supply Store’s 4health beef and veggie stew $1, 5 star

Dry:
Rachael Ray Nutrish zero grain, available at walmart and and most supermarkets $22 for 14 lbs, 4 star
Dr Tims Kinesis grain free, order online for $65-$75 for 40 lbs, 5 star

I’ve also used Whole Earth Farms grain free, Petco has it ans maybe petsmart too.

Walmart’s Pure balance Canned has a dedicated puppy food, and the others I listed are approved for all life stages.
Pure Balance also has a dry grain free line, 4 star, budget friendly, but i wasn’t crazy about it
and prob won’t use it again.

I feed raw on the weekends with Sea Spot Live Longer premix. Cheapest boneless muscle meats I can find are chicken hearts ($1 per lb) and pork shoulder roast, has a small bone but easy to remove ($1.69 per lb). Raw pork products should be kept frozen for 2 weeks before serving (kills parasites apparently).

Canned water packed sardines once or twice a week (65’cents per can),
and a recreational pig foot or chicken foot once a week or so ($1 per lb)

I saw frozen pigs heads at walmart for $1’per lb, but decided I don’t want that thing staring at me every time I open the freezer.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by Z B.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by Z B.

[Eve D]

I currently feed my 5 month old puppy Blackhawk Puppy as recommended by the breeder. Having researched this site I am thinking about switching to Orijen Puppy. Blackhawk hasn’t been reviewed here so would you be able to give me an idea of the quality of it compared to Orijen. The first three ingredients are Lamb meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Oats, and the full ingredients list is here http://www.blackhawkpetcare.com.au/dog-food/original-lamb-rice-holistic-puppy-formula

I occasionally supplement the Blackhawk kibble with a small amount of Ziwipeak tinned meat for dogs (about an 8th of the can) and even this small addition has our puppy zooming about for a good few hours with excess energy and lots of mouthing – too much protein?

Thanks for your help

[Naturella]

@Dog_Obsessed, yes, I am! 🙂 LoL, I’ve been lurking for a while, lol, getting out of my winter break hiatus slowly.

@Peggy, you’re very welcome. 🙂 I agree with DO, Blue Buffalo is by far not the greatest out there so it’s even better that your pups don’t eat it anymore, BUT my personal experience with it, albeit short (like 5 months) was good. Wilderness Puppy was the second food we fed to Bruno after getting him and he did lovely on it, his coat became shinier, and this is when I became very interested in researching dog foods. So far the roommate’s dog seems fine on it too, and a couple of friends have fed it for a while with no problems. Given the huge variety of dry foods I want to try for Bruno, I may never get to come back to it, lol, and I’m okay with that.
As for LB, great job on the 1lb down! I’d say maybe, if you want to, give her 3/4 cup of dry per feeding plus the 1/2 can of wet food. You can also add some water and stir well so that the canned coats the kibble evenly and more water is always good. This way she will be at 2 cups dry calorie-wise, and see how that goes for her and if she keeps losing weight. Or, you can keep her at the amounts you stated and see if she’s losing like that. 🙂

[Dori]

Hi Deanna. Life stories are always welcome. It lets us all know background stories and whether one is old or new to the world of companion animals.

If your vet is a traditional vet than he/she will give you all the cons of feeding raw. Bacteria, yada yada yada. None of that, in my experience is true. All dogs have a bit of salmonella in their guts. It is dogs that have been fed kibble and/or inferior foods that will or could have an issue with salmonella in foods. A healthy dog (gastrointestinal health I’m speaking of) have no issues with a commercial food that may have a little bacteria in it. I’ve actually never known or heard of a commercial raw fed dog that has fallen ill from bacteria of any sort from a commercial raw diet. The issue with salmonella contaminated raw foods is more of an issue with the animals owners (humans) and not the owners. We are the ones that will get sick BUT only if we are slovenly. I’m sure cooking for yourself and your family now or in the past you have handled raw meats and poultry. When done you are always cautioned to clean all surfaces, clean all utensils and scrub your hands and all surfaces that the raw foods have touched. It’s the same thing. Raw meat and poultry is raw meat and poultry regardless of whether your feeding it to yourself and loved ones of the human variety or your animals. A lot of the traditional veterinary community seem to think that commercial raw feeders are indiscriminate as to what we feed our animals. I’m not sure where some of these vets are getting their education from or lack thereof. They don’t really keep up with the times and would prefer to just scare you off.

As to how much I feed my dogs, specifically Hannah, as she weighs 7 lbs. like your yorki does, it depends on what I’m feeding. If I’m feeding Primal Pronto (it’s a complete and balanced diet from Primal made in little “kibble like” bits frozen) then I scoop out 1/4 cup in the a.m. or p.m. just as I would have done with a kibble. If it’s in a pattie form, then I read the packaging for her weight and feed her accordingly. Typically it’s 1/4 of the pattie per meal. For varying meals even though all three of my girls weigh a little bit differently I pretty much feed them all the same amount. Lola, my 5 lb. girl is very very hyper so she burns everything off quickly. If she’s awake, she’s in motion. Katie my 6 lb. girl is tall for a Maltipoo and very petite in structure. She was the runt of the litter and due to be put down before I rescued her into our family. She has a lot of issues food wise, environmentally and muscoskeletal so I’m always making sure she keeps her weight on. Hannah, my true couch potato, and at her age that’s okay with me, she stays on the lean side. Because she is 15 1/2 years old and a touch of old age arthritis I keep her on the lean side. I’m not big on having a scale to weigh them on a regular basis. I feel my dogs. If they have a little bit of coating on their ribs that I don’t mess with the amount I feed them. If I feel one of them and can too readily feel their ribs where with my fingers I can actually feel an identation then I know that dog needs a bit more food. If I have to press down too much to feel ribs, then I feed a little less for that dog. Kind of like ourselves. We have heavier days and lighter days. Winter we’re indoors a bit too much in the summer we’re very active.

I got both Lola and Katie both when, I guess I was around 61 or so. I thought I’d go insane. Literally, I was shedding tears all the time. I then thought it was one of my bigger mistakes. It was tough going having to 9 week old puppies at the same time. I hadn’t had a puppy in so long I’d forgotten the colossal amount of work let alone having two. Well, now that all is said and done I have to say that Lola and Katie are the best of pals. They are not siblings in the true sense of the word but you’d never know it. They sleep by each other, they rough house, play, everything together. But honestly I didn’t think I’d make it through those first couple of years. Hannah was none to happy about any of it either. Now they all pal around together. When I call them to let them out in the back Hannah won’t go out until she waits for the other two to catch up. All three wait for each other by the back door before they’ll come back in. Very very cute. Of course, if one of them barks, they all start barking even though the other two haven’t got a clue why or what they’re barking about. Very funny. Some times irritating but mostly have given me so much love and quality to my life. At 66 I’d probably be able to handle a puppy again but certainly not two at a time. Though I think I would rescue a senior at this point in my life. At one point in your life you want babies and are all about babies and as you get older you see the need that seniors (whether they be humans or dogs) need.

One last point on commercial raw feeding. Once you do it you’ll wonder what took you so long and what you were so worried about. Also, feeding commercial raw foods is not at all what you think it’s going to look like. It’s not like you’re going to toss a whole animal at your dog for dinner. I couldn’t possibly handle that. Really it just looks for the most part like ground meats in shapes of hamburgers. Other than the “kibble like” bits that are meant for the squeamish kibble feeders trying to make a transition into raw and also because they defrost so darn quick.

[weezerweeks]

Hi Dori. I have thought about it but for some reason I can’t do it. How much do u feed your 7 lb baby? I give my Bailey Fruits and whole green foods too. I am thinking about getting a yorkie puppy. My Bailey is a rescue and my second yorkie. I’ve been trying to find another rescue but yorkies are so hard to find. I’m 65 so the thoughts of a puppy is scary. I support United yorkie rescue but most of them are too old. My Bailey was 2 when I got him.He was an owner surrender with heart worms. Oh well didn’t mean to give u my life’s story but I am going to talk with my vet about the raw feeding. He’s all for it. He’s the best Vet. Thanks, Deanna

[JJ H]

Is there an all life stage dry dog food designed for large breeds, with larger nugget sizes? Should I be feeding my 12 month old great pyrenees/anatolian shepherd large breed puppy food since technically he is still a pup? Just rescued him. When actually being fed, he was fed a crappy dog food that at least had perfectly sized nuggets.

[Akari_32]

I’ve tried all that keeping his paws clean after going out and it never helped. Here in FL it’s pretty much a losing battle if there’s an environmental allergy involved. I am about to take out chicken from his diet and see how that helps. He’s got about a month of pork in the freezer. Should be long enough off poultry to see if he improves any at all.

As far as treats, that’s a hard battle with mom. I’ve got her limited to three treats a day, and I’ve got them on Zukes, the little tiny ones the size of a pencil eraser. Moms the kind of person that means well, but is behind the times on the fact that there is more knowledge on pet nutrition and health care these days. All four dogs have her *trained* on where the treats are, and she loves to give them treats. So I do my best to create a happy medium in the treat field. She’s more of the just-feed-it-some-food-and-move-along type. We had some issues between the two of us when I first brought Bentley home with her just wanting to feed him Puppy Chow, and me getting free/cheap Innova (right before the first buy out, when they were still good). Thankfully she does see that all of his skin issues are diet related, but we are still working on the treat front of that. Even she compliments how much better he looks now that I’ve figured out carbs were such a problem with him. It’s a slow process with her LOL

Since we’re on the topic of fish, i just found out that the Publix I work at has whole smelt, that are like 4-5 inches long. They’re frozen in what’s probably a 2 lb bag. If they are plain, would this be a good something to add to his diet? Can they be whole, scales, bones and all?

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Dori,
Your such a great wealth of knowledge, my little & i mean little experience with foods rotation is basically kibble with a lightly cooked topper of different proteins. I never fed canned.
i am sorry i am picking your brain so much, i really don’t know how to go about all this and then add in my fear well you can guess-
I used to feed Pepper a sardine every day until she couldn’t handle them, then I gave her fish oil-i would puncture a pill, she got beta glucan for her immune system coq10 for her heart 3x a week a Vit C, folic acid also-all human supplements just scaled down to her wt.
now with Millie I don’t want to overload her at this point because she is a puppy, i had planned to introduce the sardines a few times a week soon I think she needs the omega 3.
You know even though millie is eating a high quality kibble Orijen, Horizon legacy, I am starting to think she needs to get away from all kibble.
I have noticed,( funny that you mentioned this )Pepper’s stool has no smell since she has been eating THK, yet Millie’s does & I can only attribute it to the kibble.
I give Millie both the Orijen & Legacy mixed and she is ok with that.
I know she is ok with the orijen freeze dried (that’s what she gets for lunch alone)
I guess I made the mistake of giving her the HK with her kibble & chicken at nite.
I should have introduced THK alone with her protein as a topper.
Dori I will get this, i won’t be bothering you for ever, I am a Leo ,and we are perfectionists (that’s why I suffer from migraines) so i have to get this correct-poor Millie to have me for a mom 🙁
I did create a new topic on Puppy’s and supplements-i just haven’t had a puppy in ages & according to Millie’s breeder she needs nothing ( i don’t agree) but don’t want to go overboard.
I realize you don’t feed kibble but i saw a post where tripe is now made into kibble-petkind.com, I wanted your opinion, I have read here a lot of posters feed canned tripe-that it is good for them, I see that more of the large breed posters feed it, I just didn’t know if breeds like schnauzers would benefit. After all Pepper & Millie are not what you would call “working dogs’ Pep is in retirement & Millie is unemployed

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Weezerweeks,
I always put cotton in pepper’s ears before a bath, don’t know if that’s ok, but it helps-just remember to take it out & don’t push the cotton in too deep.
My puppy Millie shakes her head, I ordered some zymox w/enzymes to see if it helps.
i got the earth bath ear wipes & after their baths I use that, i would love to dig in,but wouldn’t dare.

IvanaR,
What do you mean gastro sensitive? Does she eat a grain free diet? Is she sensitive to certain proteins& or grains that you are aware of?
Did your vet culture the ear discharge to see what it was exactly(yeast, fungal, some other infection)?
Do you think the ear discharge is diet related? Have you changed foods recently and this happened? Have you been feeding the same food(s)? I know lots of questions
Does the food have to be dry? If so, have you ever tried soaking the kibble in warm water before feeding? softer foods might be easier on the stomach.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Dori & KristenC
I am so sorry this thread took a turn like this-esp since I just recently started posting again (unfortunately this is exactly why I took a long break from posting on this site-happened before)
I too, feed the complete mixes and the grain-free base mixes yes only for a few weeks, but believe me if any fur-kid would have visible food coming out,it would be pepper, & so far, I agree with you Dori thank god I see nothing-I am amazed.Not to repeat myself ,but, pepper loves the food.
I probably will only offer it to Millie as a topper since she is a puppy.
I,too hope we can all chat on another thread.
I just got the Primal Raw-HELP, I got the surgical gloves out, should I feed Millie in a different bowl then she gets her other food?? Please tell me what thread to find you gals on! how do I introduce it to millie-so many questions so much stress 🙁

[Shawna]

When tested at the time of diagnosis, Audrey’s BUN hovered around 57/58 and got as high as 77 when I was experimenting with her diet. Interestingly her creatinine went down when her BUN was up that high. She eats a high protein (45 to 54% dry matter) diet so not unusual for her BUN to be a bit high to begin with. Her phosphorus has never been high when checked so she’s not eating low phos or taking binders. Dogaware.com would be a good place to get some additional info on binders etc.

Your puppy is lucky to have found you!!! Some other things you can try is eliminating as many of the chemicals in your home that you can. When I first learned of Audrey’s illness I looked at the ingredient lists of all the items I used in my house and then check the CDC and/or Material Safety Data Sheets for the products. If they gave any warning about the kidneys — they were gone.

Supporting the liver can help too. I’ve had Audrey on Standard Process Canine Hepatic Support off and on as well as the Renal Support.

Interesting that they use lamb and spinach in the Just food for dogs kd food. I’ve read (and had discussions on DFA) about lamb being the hardest protein to digest. And Veterinary Nutritionist warns against feeding spinach to dogs with kidney disease (I believe because of the high amounts of oxalates). http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

My brain is shutting down so I best head off to bed.

Wishing you and your baby wonderful results and optimal health!!.. Please ask any more questions you might have and update me, if you think about it, on what you decided for her and how she does with it!!!

[aimee]

Dori,

I ‘ll be happy to discuss THK or anything I post about. I agree with you that their customer service is very responsive but CS hands are tied by the overall lack of nutritional knowledge of the company as a whole.

I think I covered the “kickback” thing. Marking up a product isn’t a kickback. Income stream from selling foods in a vet hospital EH… minor at best… It isn’t worth a vet’s time to sell pet food, his/her time is better spent in the surgery room! Considering the small volume of food sold and taking into account overhead and theft it is likely a bit of a wash. Someplace on Dr. Wynn’s vet blog she addressed this topic as her accountant said stop selling therapeutic diets, it is too much of an income drain!!

Sure vets get volume discounts on food as does anyplace buying the diets but again that isn’t a “kickback” and the volume they deal with in general is so small compared to a large retailer. If vet offices sell food I don’t see it as primarily income related I see it as providing a product they have had success with and trying to increase client contact. If they break even woo hoo!

Ok.. Why I wouldn’t currently recommend THK. On its most basic level I expect a diet when fed as directed to meet my dog’s nutritional needs. I first looked at THK when a poster posted about all the “sticks” in the product. I looked at the profile for the product she was posting about, Preference, and using the information they posted and their feeding directions I ran calculations. When fed to my dog Preference didn’t meet NRC rec or AAFCO min recommended amounts. This alarmed me!

In fact I immediately contacted THK, especially as Preference was being marketed on their website as being appropriate for feeding puppies!. To their credit after I contacted them they removed the information and feeding recommendations for puppies from their website within days. BUT why did it take someone with minimal nutritional training ( that would be me) to point out to them that their food is deficient? They acknowledged I was right by removing the puppy feeding recommendations but why still market it to adults? What about the adults eating the diet? Don’t they care about them as well?

I’ll run through a calculation with you. I’m going to feed my dog Brooke who weighs 68 lbs Preference. I’m to feed her 3/4 cup mix and 1 1/2 cups meat using their active dog recommendations.

The Vit E content of Preference is 70 IU/kg as received, Calories/kg 3510 and Cal/cup 333. From the caloric information 1 cup has .095 kgs of food and 3/4 cup is .071 kg Preference.

.071 kg of food X 70 IU/kg = 5 IU of Vit E in 3/4 cup Preference. NRC rec amt for Vit E is 1 mg/kg body weight to the 3/4 power. Brooke is 68 lbs = ~31kg. To calculate bw to the 3/4 power multiple bw three times and square root twice. 31X 31X 31= 29,791, take the square root twice = 13. Brooke’s body weight in kg to the 3/4 power is 13 and NRC rec Vit E is 13 mg Vit E of the alpha tocopherol form.

Now we have to convert IU vit E to mg vit E (alpha tocopherol) which is what NRC uses. The accepted conversion factor I found is 1 IU vit E = .45 mg alpha tocopherol So 5 IU Vit E x .45 mg/IU = 2.25 mg alpha tocopherol supplied by Preference. The Vit E content of the added 1 and 1/2 cup 85% lean ground beef is .58 mg Vit E from the USDA nutrient database, I’m estimating 1.5 cups as 12 oz. 0.58 mg from meat plus 2.25 mg from the mix = total Vit E fed 2.84 mg. Preference provided about 20% the NRC recommended daily amount of Vit E. This is why I don’t recommend Preference, it doesn’t meet needs.

I’ll compare Preference to AAFCO on an energy basis. AAFCO rec Vit E is 50 IU/kg and a kg of food is defined as 3,500 kcals 50 IU/3,500kcals x 1000 = 14.2 IU/1000 kcals.

I was recommended to feed 3/4 cup Preference which gave me 5 IU Vit E and 250 kcals and 1 1/2 cup meat. 1.5 cups 85% ground beef from USDA database approx 731 kcals and .58 mg alpha tocopherol. I convert mgs Vit E from the beef to IU and I get~ 1.3 IU Total Vit E fed 6.3 IU and total calories 981 kcals 6.3IU/981 kcals x 1000 = 6 .4 IU/1000 kcals. AAFCO Min is 14.2 IU/1000kcals so Preference provides less than half the min AAFCO Vit E requirement according to their posted nutritional information.

Dori, I hope you can now see that using the information provided by THK and adding meat to the pre mix it does not meet either AAFCO or the NRC recommended min levels for Vit E.

Now let’s look at their complete diets, are they complete and balanced? Go to their site and pull up the nutritional information for Keen. The posted content of Vit E is 23.45 mg/kg DM and their posted arginine content is 0.06% DM. Compare that to AAFCO. AAFCO min Vit E content for maint is 50 IU/kg DM and arginine AAFCO min is .51% DM. It really is as simple as that…. 23.45 IU/kg is less than AAFCO requirement of 50 IU/kg and 0.06 % is far far less than .51%. But consider that KEEN caloric content is reported as 4524/kg and AAFCO requires any diet over 4000 kcals/kg to be corrected. The correction is simple 4524/3500 x 50 = 64.6 IU/kg. A diet with KEEN’s caloric density requires 64.6 IU Vit E/kg and THK says there is 23.45 IU/kg. The company reports that their diet has only 36% the amount that AAFCO requires. THK is saying that their diet is not “complete and balanced” b AACo nutrient profile.

Diet after diet, nutrient after nutrient the information that THK posts doesn’t meet AAFCO

Have I reported them? The company on one hand says it is complete and balanced and on the other says it is not. For a feed control official to take action I think a nutrient analysis would need to be done to settle the question and a full analysis can cost thousands. I don’t have that kind of money to donate to the cause. I asked THK if their nutritional analysis are accurate and they said they are. I asked how they can say their diet are complete and balanced. They say they are. Both statements can not be true. Either the nutritional information is wrong or some diets are not complete and balanced. I don’t know which is true. The company said it didn’t have time to investigate it, but would get back to me. It has been over 6 months…Is that good customer service?? I’ve been waiting over 6 months for the company to answer as to how it can say their diets are complete and balanced when the information they post does not meet AAFCO.

I found a similar situation with Grandma Lucy’s, they say the diet is complete and balanced but they report that the Phos max is .45% which is below AAFCO min. I did report Grandma Lucy’s to the feed control official. Grandma Lucy’s printed their nutritional information on the package in their guaranteed analysis so the feed control official didn’t need to run an analysis. The food is misbranded: the label can’t say that it meets AAFCO while guaranteeing that the food is below AAFCO. So the official in my state placed a stop sale order on Grandma Lucy’s. Does that mean it isn’t being sold? Of course not!! The feed control official can’t be there 24 /7 in every little boutique that chooses to violate the law. Does the company care? They gave me the same line as THK; Our diets are complete and balanced. I’ve been waiting over 9 months for them to tell me actual Phos level in their foods.They said they should have the information sometime in 2015

People tend to buy food on an emotional basis. THK is very good at appealing to emotions: “human grade”, “whole food”, “non GMO” etc. They excel in it… I’m analytical.. I like numbers and data. I like things to be consistent and this company is full of inconsistencies. They say the food is “never cooked”…. but they “heat” to high temps. How is that not cooked? I asked THK but they wouldn’t answer. It isn’t raw… yet their phone number is “4 dry raw” and Lucy Postins says right on the video that it is raw. If you use their as received nutrient data the DM protein content is 21.85% for Keen but if you use their as served data it is 40% protein DM basis. They say the diet is highly digestible but expect your dog to poop three to five times a day. That’s normal… Really?? Normal for your dog to poop 3-5 times a day with undigested whole hunks of celery and sweet potato and alfalfa in it? They haven’t ever done any type of digestibility trials, how do they know it is highly digestible… they told me they know it is because raw foods are highly digestible… but wait… they told me their food isn’t raw. Do they have a nutritionist Nope… have they ever had a nutritionist review their diets? Nope. Since the company doesn’t use any nutritionists does it surprise me that their diets wouldn’t be balanced and they can’t do simple nutritional calculations… Nope

I see this company as a marketing company. They appeal to people who evaluate foods on an emotional basis only which is pretty much everybody! They say it is not cooked to appeal to raw feeders and they say it is heat processed to appeal to those that don’t like raw. How can it be both?? According to the nutritional information the company posts and depending on the diet their diets may not meet the most basic thing that a food should, which is meet the nutritional needs of the pet. As long as you don’t feed it consistently it should be fine. But why pay a premium price a food that comes out as it goes in? And why support a company that promotes feeding unbalanced diets to pets ?

Dori I hope this explains to you why I can’t currently recommend this company.

[Daren S]

Hound Dog mom, thanks for all your info. I am quite confused after reading all this, vet info, breeder info etc. I am trying to choose a great puppy food and, once he’s full grown, a great adult food, preferably cooked frozen ……for my 5 month Bullmastiff puppy.

After all the reading and because I am not a big raw fan (will feed occasionally as a mix in) I think I prefer the cooked frozen diets as they are not as processed as dry kibble. Sounds like I should stick with the Wellness Large Breed dry puppy food (DFA 5 star) until he is full grown. Then maybe switch to a cooked Frozen food like Maverick’s Nature’s Kitchen (DFA 4.5 stars). I will always mix in healthy human foods, to have variety and excitement.

My bully is now 5 months and 80 lbs should grow to about 140 lbs.

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated. 🙂

[Cait Y]

Ok so I have lurked here for a little over a year, and recently started making my own raw cat food via Lisa A. Pierson, DVM because one of my boys almost died after getting into the Dry food AGAIN and his whole GI system blocked up because he cannot handle the lack of fluids in dry food. He is such a picky eater that I had put off the raw diet dreading that he would turn his nose up at it like he did the other high quality raw/semi cooked food I tried buying him. He LOVED the home made food, he even batted off his BFF to eat his food too!
HoundDogMom, other raw feeders please bear with me I know that the whole shebang I know as of now it is 6 pages long. I am trying to paint the whole picture with the dogs, their special needs and what is causing me confusion with the Raw feeding books I have read. There is so much going on right now in my personal life that I am having a very hard time understanding this and if anyone could help point me in the right direction or even a book or website or from experience I would be so very very grateful.
The biggest reservation I have about feeding Raw to the dogs (who LOVED the scoop of homemade cat food I gave them as a test) are the bones and sadly the limited ingredients I can use for my Special Needs Hound.
I have a 14 yr old Walker hound (Forest) who has like no teeth left and was just diagnosed with cushing’s disease but has some pretty abnormal liver tests because of the damage that was done while he went undiagnosed. His liver is so enlarged it displaces his stomach sideways and upwards which makes EASILY digestible food a must. He cannot have food high in phosphorus, copper or ammonia which means little to no red meat and lots of poultry, eggs and pork. He also has problems with chronic Constipation so I would have to be VERY careful about the amount of bone I add to his diet but I also want enough in there to give him the nutrients he needs. Since he is older he also burns a LOT of calories, He is on Vital Fresh pet Turkey or Chicken and gets 1.5 lbs a day. I don’t know what is causing him to burn so many calories except for old age or maybe his body is trying to repair itself – all he does is lounge in the lawn and do his hound dance for food – people or animal whichever he can mac on at the moment lol
My 3 yr old yellow lab (Nova) is also a high calorie burner but she is super active, we do scent tracking, retrieving, and lots of walking/running on the grass. She will go until she drops which I have never seen before, so now I watch her very closely for signs she is over heated. She eats up to 2 lbs of the above dog food a day but is still losing weight on occasion when her activity jumps up again. She has always had double the amount of Eosinophils in her blood that she should at a “normal” rate. She has been checked for parasites so the best I can come up with is that she might have GI issues going on intermittently – she doesn’t transition food gracefully and really doesn’t tolerate even high quality kibble (after research it’s not such a mystery anymore) which is in part what turned me onto Freshpets Vital.
To top it all off I have a Four month old female lab puppy (Ellie) that is still growing. I have her on 2 lbs of Freshpets vital but I am worried that she is not getting something in her diet as well. She has three white lines running across her nails – each nail on every paw. In my experience when the horses have white lines or even indents it means either they were very very sick or have a mineral/vitamin deficiency of some sort. I know when Ellie came to us she had a severe infection of hook and round worms. Her infection was so severe at 8 weeks old that the vet said she would have died untreated – thank you OCD and taking her to the Vet the same day she was brought home lol. They were resistant to the normal worming meds and for 2 months we battled with getting them under control and gone. If Dogs are like horses that would cause the lines because of how sick she was during this (Great going Lemon law Florida) yet I also worry because I know parasites in small animals or even large can cause a huge system imbalance with nutrients which hinders growth.
OK Limited ingredients – because of Forest I have to stick to Chicken, Turkey, and Eggs as a main protein source due to his liver problems and because Rabbit in completely unviable to me unless I want to raise them myself. I have no local butcher – the closest one is three hours away so Chicken and Turkey liver will have to do for organ meat – sometimes I can get chicken hearts once in a blue moon. For Fats I have to choose VERY easily digestible fats from an animal protein because with Forests Liver problems his biliary system can be overloaded very easily and that would be disastrous. Maybe I can add some duck occasionally to his diet?

Copper Issues:
If ammonia restriction is required, feed less red meats and organs since they produce the most ammonia. You may not want to eliminate them entirely though, as they have important nutrients that help with liver function.
Instead, cut back. Feed more poultry, fish, eggs, and pork. If feeding red meat, even in small quantities, buy the absolute best quality you can afford. Preferably grass fed, antibiotic, and hormone free.

Meats generally low in copper are:
• Beef (muscle meat, not organs)
• Eggs
• Turkey (white meat)
• Chicken (white meat)
• Rabbit
• Fish
Meats generally high in copper are:
• Lamb
• Pork
• Pheasant or Quail
• Duck
• Goose
• Salmon
• Organ Meats
When feeding organs for copper issues, some animal livers contain more copper than others. Beef liver is higher in copper than chicken or pork livers. Regardless, the zinc and b vitamins in liver help to reduce the risk of copper toxicity. Though if your dog has an issue with copper, opt for chicken or pork liver. (http://primalpooch.com/raw-feeding-guidelines-dogs-liver-disease/)

I have read Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health of Dogs and Cats. I have some major issues with either of the books, UtCaD is so absolute – if you feed this protein then you need this oil. First of all Canola Oil? Corn Oil? Soybean Oil? Walnut oil? Flax and hemp seed oil? I own horses and I would NEVER give them Corn oil with the GMO crap going around I don’t trust Corn or Canola at all. If I am not comfortable feeding to my strict Herbivores I am definitely not OK feeding it to the other animals. By the way the 2,000 lbs animals have had major GI upset from Canola, Corn, Soybean and Flax seed oil. I’ve given it to them in small amounts – 3 tablespoons a day and I have seen a massive systemic effect that made me take them off of it immediately. It was supposed to give them the right ratio of Omega’s 3 and 6 plus help my older guys move and keep weight on since it was winter. The recommended Ratio of 6 to 3 fats are 10:1 to 5:1 for dogs – I have read that small fish or Krill are the best to supplement dogs with because of the low contamination rate and it should not carry Salmon Sickness. Soybean oil is also something I would never give my dogs or humans or anything because of the way it can mimic hormones and interrupt the function of the Thyroid. Also Kelp is recommended a lot, but there are so many negatives that came out during the feeding kelp to horse’s fad that I will not touch the stuff. If it can affect the horses with the amount of iodine to the point horses became toxic I don’t trust the manufactures. It was not that kelp was being fed in large amounts there was absolutely no regulation on what type they harvested or what it contained. Missing link for dogs is a product I am familiar with and they do make it for dogs with trace minerals but it is flax based. Won’t this completely mess up the balancing? Does anyone here feed this instead of kelp?
The Missing Link Ultimate Skin & Coat:
Active Ingredients (per tbsp)
Flaxseed Dried Kelp
Glucosamine Hydrochloride (Vegetarian) Zinc Monomethionine
Freeze Dried Beef Liver Lecithin
Blackstrap Molasses Chromium Yeast
Rice Bran Selenium Yeast
Primary Dried Yeast Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6)
Sunflower Seed Niacin (Vitamin B3)
Dehydrated Alfalfa Garlic Powder
Dried Carrot Yucca Schidigera Extract
Shark Cartilage Powder* Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)
Freeze Dried Fish Protein Powder Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1)
Freeze Dried Oyster Powder Folic Acid
Barley Grass Leaves Powder Cobalamin (Vitamin B12)
Guaranteed Analysis Amount
Crude Protein (not less than) 18%
Crude Fat (not less than) 28%
Crude Fiber (not more than) 15%
Moisture (not more than) 10%
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 450 mg
**Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 1000 mg
**Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat/Dog food nutrient profiles.

Also if everything is so precise that does not leave room for error such as what if the chickens were raised on Florida soil which is heavy in limestone and deficient in other areas – rather than let’s say somewhere in the bread bowl what about if they were fed a corn based feed and another batch was fed free range? If the meat analysis is different it throws everything off and we all know that meat from south Fl is very different than meat from MI or IN – same principle goes with growing vegetables even organic. How much of a God Factor is there for the abundance of some micronutrients and lack of others? UTCAD also has an abundance of some nutrients way over the NRC guidelines – are dogs different in the fact that they can rid themselves of excess things very easily? I know in humans and horses Vit E and Selenium can be deadly because it builds up in fat and the body doesn’t flush it out like the water-soluble vitamins?
Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health has a lot of oat meal, rice, beans?! Half and Half milk, whole milk, whole wheat bread corn? That sounds not so great for dogs and especially not for cats like it says it can be. What about kidney beans? With feeding my dogs I have learned they do OK on rice occasionally when they have an upset GI but if they are on a diet with rice too long they get backed up. Also the beans – the dogs seem to have issues with digesting them like people sometimes do – why are there so many carbohydrates? Why cannot I do sprouted microgreens or carrots or even baked potatoes because I know the dogs tolerate those vegetables very well. Also Brewer’s Yeast? Isn’t yeast as a whole bad? It’s in everything and I know Nova already is prone to yeast infections in her ears and when she gets a UTI – Also can Brewer’s yeast cause or attribute to bloat? Milk – isn’t milk products bad if they are in large amounts such as 2 cups milk plus 2 cups rolled oats and 2 eggs and calcium powder? Everything to me seems so skewed.
Also RMB are out of the question – Forest cannot eat them and Nova and Ellie are gulpers – they came from a large litter and it would be just my luck to end up in emergency surgery with one of them. I have a grinder to which I can grind the bone up with the meat and I know the purpose of the bone was for dental health but if I make Meat Jerky and other goodies can I replicate that without worrying about emergency surgery or broken teeth?
Since I own a grinder already for cat food why cannot I grind bones to supplement their food with? So far in my research the basic recipe and consensus I have come across is as follows:
16% Organ meat
10% – 25% Bone
The rest of the food would be muscle meat and muscle meat
Meat is very high in phos and the bone is high in Cal which means the Cal to Phos ratio should be 1.2 to 1.5:1 although 1:1 to 2.5:1 is ok as well. I just need to make sure the dogs consume more Cal than Phos but the question is do I need to add bone meal or can I grind my own bones to supplement?
Here is what the Article analysis the bone content to be in prey animals:
Bone Content In Raw Foods
When sourcing bones for your dog’s diet, it’s a good idea to know the approximate amount of bone in commonly sourced foods. Here is a quick guide to help you keep your dog’s bone content in the right range; between 10% and 25%.
Chicken Whole chicken (not including the head and feet): 25% bone/Leg quarter: 30%/Split breast: 20%/Thigh: 15%/Drumstick: 30%/Wing: 45%/Neck: 36%/Back: 45%/Turkey/Whole turkey: 21%/Thigh: 21%/Drumstick: 20%/Wing: 37%/Neck: 42%/Back: 41%
Pork Feet: 30%/Tails: 30%/Ribs: 30%
Beef Ribs: 52%
Rabbit Whole rabbit (fur and all): 10% Whole (dressed): 25-30%

From this can I remove the proper amount of bones or add more bones in to balance or would you suggest a bone meal powder? Also I have yet to factor in the percentage of vegetable/fruit/microgreens in the recipe – I am just so lost so if HoundDogMom could help or someone else could chime in I would be so grateful. I am trying very hard to learn as much as I can but between the animals and two sick family members and special needs animals by the time I have a moment to sit down I am out like a light for the night or my brain is so frazzled everything looks like it was written in French. Am I over thinking this? I just don’t want to screw Ellie up – she has already had such a bad start with the worm infection – and Forest needs nutrients to rebuild his liver correctly and I wanted to see if this change in diet would help Nova’s Eosinophils come to a normal level. Also has anyone ever seen white lines on every toenail that grows parallel with the skin? Any help would be so appreciated there is just not a lot of room for error with Forest right now with his liver Alt levels 4 times what they are supposed to be. They cannot stay on the Freshpet much longer because to feed the dogs its 19 dollars a day and that’s not a very good long term solution.
Thanks so much everyone~!~ I Hope everyone had a great New Year and wonderful Holiday
`RedMare

[Kris J]

Same problem here. We fed our dog Wellness small breed for puppy and then adult – and he has unknown allergies that are driving him nuts. We did environmental blood testing and saw high reactivity to mites and mold, and he’s on allergy drops now.

I’m feeding him nothing but sweet potatoes and white beans for eight weeks to see if that affects his itching; I just don’t know if it’s food or strictly environmental.

My confusion with the elim diets is — what if he’s allergic to something in that? Like sweet potatoes? So frustrated.

[adam s]

We just acquired two large breed puppies (golden retriever mix) for our five kids. FANTASTIC. However, my two sons have severe food allergies. No, they are not eating the dog food, but the allergies are also contact allergies. So, in order to keep the puppies, our dogs have to submit to the same food allergy awareness list as my sons. The big issues are gluten, egg, & nuts. I can easily find adult dry food without those three ingredients but puppy food like this is not so easy to find.

We’ve been using California Natural: Herring and Sweet Potato, which I thought would work since it is egg free and wheat free. But it is not gluten free because of the Barley in it….My son had an allergic reaction to the dog because the dog licked his face. This now precludes my boys from caring for the dogs (feeding and grooming and playing) because of the possible reaction.

Please, any advise would be appreciated. I need large breed dry puppy food without egg, wheat, barley, rye (gluten containing grains). I can easily find the gluten free, but almost ALL puppy food has the egg for the needed fats. AND, GO!

[Karla C]

Hi everyone! I am new to this forum and have come here for advice. I have read through many threads/replies but I want to ask specifically for the puppy I am rescuing. Her mom is a lab/hound mix and they think dad is a heeler. I will be getting her this Friday at 8 weeks old! Back in April I had to say goodbye to my 15 year old lab/golden mix. But I am now excited to be getting another dog! I didn’t pay much attention as far as researching best foods for my previous dog and unfortunately she became diabetic and had to give her insulin twice a day. She ended up losing a lot if weight (in a healthy way) and her last years were the best!

I want to start out right with my new dog. The foster mom who has the litter is feeding them whole earth farms puppy food by Merrick (dry mixed in with a little wet)…so here I am looking for advise to see if anyone has a lab/hound/heeler mix and what has worked best for them. Thank you in advance! Thankful that I stumbled across this forum 🙂

[Naturella]

Fade, hi.

I will second Marie on her comments:

1. Rotation is great, just make sure you do it over a few days. You can also add some canned/dehydrated/freeze-dried/air-dried/raw as toppers every once in a while, as well as maybe some coconut oil or fish oil (for Omega 3s), raw or lightly cooked eggs, and canned sardines, salmon, or jack mackerel (not tuna). Those are really good for dogs. For my 15lb terrier mix I feed one raw egg/week, 1/2 small can of sardines, and coconut oil every other day. I also use dehydrated/air-dried/freeze-dried as toppers on every dinner meal. I used to feed yoghurt too, but Bruno decided he’s had enough of it apparently, lol. But if your dog likes it, it is good stuff too. Kefir also.
2. Many dogs self-regulate, and many don’t. As Marie said, the bag directions are just guidelines, and many dogs require less than the recommended amounts. You should gage by body condition: https://dogchow.com/articles/1871/body-condition and adjust food amounts accordingly. My dog is at the caloric intake of 3/4 cups of food total, 1/2 cup dry and 1/4 cup (or so, calorie-wise) additives (“toppers”). This is within the recommended amounts, but when we used to exercise a lot, twice a day in the hot summer Georgia days, he would eat 3/4 cup of dry with similar amounts of additives. He was lean and mean even though he ate more.
3. As I have a small dog, I can’t tell you about good brands for large dogs, but this thread can: /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/ Page 15 should have a link to a google doc with all brands written out, how they score, etc. It is an overall great resource for large breed owners.

Good luck, seems like Nala is in good hands! 🙂

[peter d]

My opinion and practice has always been as follows-
Puppy biscuits (29-30%protein) to 10-12 weeks of age -then continue with a working dog biscuit of around 25%up to 6 months or so. From then on a protein level of 20-21% is ample.
Always dry biscuits(good for their teeth-never wet food)-and add lib because no one knows how much to feed except nature and the dog.

[peter d]

Hi all,I’m new here having stumbled onto this site,and what caught my attention are statements about high or low protein.
Also Mike suggests for anyone to share knowledge-so here goes.
I speak with over 50 years of experience of commercial animal production with various species.Nutrition has always been my driving interest and study-by necessity-we had our own feed plant.
I have discovered some amazing things,by following ideas and hunches and putting them into practice.
With nearly all species the protein requirements lessen as animals grow.
With dogs however, it seems to me that manufacturers use high protein as a marketing tool-as users seem to think the higher protein-the better the food!
Puppy biscuits in particular at 29-30% protein and recommended to be fed to 12 and even 24 mths old!
This is a monumental mistake and a major cause of hip Dysplasia in dogs-and I’ll tell you why.
Proteins produce acids-the higher the protein-the more acids. The body attempts to neutralise this by using Calcium from the food intake and,invariably, leeches Calcium from the bones-which in a young pup-which are not born with bones-but need to develop and grow-and the larger the breed the more they have to grow.
2 of these acids cause secretion of the Calcium via the urine.
It is a major although not the only mnutritional cause of CHD.
I have always had large breed dogs as well-the last 15 years as a breeder of Malamutes as a semi retirement pursuit and love of dogs.
As I write this having reared many hundreds of dogs,I am yet to see one with CHD.
Nutrition is by far the most important thing in life of all living things-humans too!
Peter