[crazy4cats]

Oh, poor baby! How frustrating. There is a ton of great info on irritable bowel and inflammatory bowel on dogaware.com. Check out thei digestive disorders thread. My dogs never lost appetite when battling Giardia or Coccidia. Also never noticed any rumbling. So maybe something different is going on. But, I believe all the antibiotics and dewormers I used gave them a leaky and/or irritable gut. I used several of the supplements suggested on the above mentioned site to repair it and they are doing much better. Check out the website and I hope your get can come up with an answer from the test. Best wishes.

[crazy4cats]

Hi pacer1978-
I try to feed my dogs fresh garlic a couple of times a week normally. But, now that it is flea season, I have been giving them a scoop of the Bug Off Garlic from Springtime Supplements every day. So far, so good. I did this last year also and they did not get fleas. As for Heart Worm, I don’t have any recommendations. Have you checked out the dogs naturally magazine or dogaware websites. I’ve gotten a lot of good info from those sites. Good luck and have fun on your vacation!

[Bobby dog]

Hey C4c:
I can’t comment on your idea because I never mixed supplements like that for my dogs and I totally understand the need for simplicity.

When I used to board my horses I had to make adding supplements to my horses meals very simple, or they would not have gotten them. I used to mix daily supplements in small plastic bags so all the person had to do was dump the bag. I doubt the person feeding even took the time to mix it into their feed, even though I hung a mixing spoon next to their stall doors. lol

[Cassandra S]

Hi there! I’m new to the forum, but I follow DFA news as closely as possible.

I own two pitbull mixes. Emma is a 2 year old German Shepherd/Pit Bull mix with back leg/hip problems. She has not be diagnosed with hip displaysia, but I have been told to put her on glucosamine/chondroitin supplements. Zooey is a 1 year old Pit Bull/possible Labrador mix…(not quite sure what she’s mixed with.) Both dogs are rescues.

Emma and Zooey both have gas issues. Lately Emma has been vomiting at least 2 or 3 times a week. Occasionally she vomits up pieces of kibble, other times its just foamy with bits of grass. Both dogs are a little picky. It’s been impossible to find a food that they both like. They are currently on Purina Dog Chow (which I hate, but I had to do it because of budget constraints) but I am looking to switch them over to a better quality food that won’t break my wallet (or my boyfriend’s). In the past, I had Emma on Blue Buffalo Wilderness, but she stopped eating it; I then switched her to Nature’s Variety Duck. She liked it for a while but then she started to only eat the freeze-dried raw kibble and not the rest of her food. Then I switched her to Merrick’s Bison and Sweet Potato recipe, but she began to chew incessantly on her legs to the point where she was going bald. This is about the time I rescued Zooey.

Zooey was on Vet Prescribed Science Diet. She ate it and then Emma started eating it. It concerned me because it was a puppy food and Emma has problems with her legs and I didn’t want her to gain weight and create more issues. I eventually put both of them on Purina True Instinct (the turkey venison one?) and they both liked it and ate it up, but again Emma would begin to vomit occasionally. I then switched them to Taste of the Wild, but neither of them would touch it. I tried Merrick’s Pork and Sweet Potato recipe and Zooey loved it, but Emma once again began itching and chewing and I worried for her health so I switched to Nature’s Variety again, which neither of the ate…

Since I just recently moved and changed jobs, money has been tight, so that is the reason they ended up on Purina Dog Chow…

Any sort of recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Neither dogs have allergy diagnoses, but I believe Emma may be allergic to fish (both Merrick foods had fish in them) since she had the itching and chewing problems.

[Bobby dog]

Hey C4c:
I hope she comes back too! I also hope some or all of this info can help your sister’s or anyone’s dog for that matter. Also, be sure to print out my previous post about DE and the post with the link for using povidone/iodine solution to clear up yeasty skin for your sister. I did not use the pov/io solution because I did not know about it, but that would have definately speeded up the process of killing off the yeast!

It was nice to resolve his issues without harse products. As I wrote, Bobby was healthy other than the flea infestation, flea dermatitis and yeasty skin. I contributed to the problem with bad diet choices. Once the food/treats changed and supplements were added the rest was a little more time consuming, but worth it! I just had to make time to use the olive oil flea dip once a week, give him a bath at least once a week, use the coco oil topically daily, use DE when needed topically, wash his bedding weekly, and vacuum daily. I started this routine last September. Using the olive oil dip wasn’t necessary past October and bathing weekly tapered off in less than a two month span and settled to about 2x/month until about February. And I am a little embarassed to say I have not bathed him since March; I do brush him weekly. He is getting a bath this afternoon because I have some visitors coming tomorrow. lol My persistance to rid him of his feas and yeasty skin paid off because I have so much time to do other things this summer, well I just don’t know what to do with myself!!!! 😉

[Bobby dog]

Hi Anita:
Here are the supplements, foods, and products I used (and still do along with some new additions) to get rid of Bobby’s flea dermatitis and yeasty skin. Olive oil flea dip, Nolvasan shampoo, raw eggs, bone broth, unrefined organic coconut oil, sardines/fish oil, MSM, and DE. Not too complicated or costly! This along with a new diet plan that I began last September helped to restore his health.

Dogs with severe yeast issues more than likely need a carb free diet to starve the yeast; carbs feed yeast and bad bacteria. All kibble has carbs because they require starch to bind the food into a kibble form. Your dogs would probably benefit from a grain free and low carb food preferably with no potato. Bobby’s yeast issues were bad, but it was not necessary to eliminate kibble from his diet. I did feed kibble that had low carbs and I only feed kibble that has average to low carbs now.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/03/eating-these-foods-can-make-your-dog-itch-like-crazy.aspx

Since September I have fed DFA rated 3-5 star kibble along with DFA rated 3-5 star canned food. After a few months on the new diet, I started alternating canned with fresh foods, dehydrated/freeze dried foods, or frozen commercial raw. By continuing with the supplements, feeding quality food and treats I went into this flea season with a healthy and fresh smelling dog. Fingers crossed no fleas on Bobby and it is rainy and very humid where I live, fleas are in full force.

It is very important not to make too many changes at once; this includes new foods! Start supplements in low doses slowly working towards the desired dose. If everything is okay, add another supplement. As far as shampoos, olive oil flea dip, and applying coco oil topically I used them right away and regularly without any worries because they provided immediate relief and were important for treating the yeast.

For a flea dip I used olive oil (from the grocery store) which has no long lasting effects, just immediate relief for the skin and to kill the fleas without chemicals. I did this outside so I did not have to worry about being tidy. Start under the chin and in the collar area working your way to the back, belly, and leg areas all the way to the tail. With Bobby I would just pour it on then massage it in to be sure his skin and between his toes were coated. His fur is not too thick or long. He loved the massage that came with it not to mention he was not itchy and uncomfortable while it was on him. The fleas pretty much disintegrate. Your dogs’ coats may be heavier than Bobby’s if you decide to try this, be sure to separate the fur, pour a little, and then work it in. I always left it on for an hour letting him run around and play, but you will definitely see their lifeless bodies after a short time so an hour is not necessary. Then I shampooed it off, it is easy to shampoo out; I even use olive oil as a conditioner for my hair.

I bathed Bobby once a week using Nolvalsan shampoo mostly. I always shampooed twice leaving the first application on for at least 10 minutes. I can’t find Nolvasan on-line so they may not make it anymore. Hibiclens or the drug store equivalent has the same ingredients as Nolvalsan. Malasab shampoo is a popular choice and highly recommended by many posters on DFA. I also used EQyss Micro-Tek medicated shampoo when the condition became less severe. You can find Micro-Tek on-line and in some pet stores. With your size of dogs I would look into a large bottle of Malasab shampoo, but in a pinch you could always purchase the Hibiclens or generic equivalent at a drug store.
http://www.drugs.com/vet/malaseb-shampoo.html
http://www.eqyss.com/pet_microtek_shampoo.asp
http://www.vetstreet.com/nolvasan-shampoo

The biotin in eggs is great for the skin and hair. I fed Bobby one raw egg a week. However, he recently decided he no longer likes raw eggs so we have poached eggs on Sundays. He gets a one minute egg and I get a two minute egg. lol
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/feeding-your-dog-raw-eggs-good-or-bad/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2005/02/09/raw-eggs.aspx

I made bone broth and fed it once a week. I still feed him bone broth weekly; Bobby weighs 44 lbs and I feed him ¼ – ½ C of broth.
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/reasons-your-dog-love-bone-broth/
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/12/02/pet-bone-broth.aspx

The coconut oil must be organic and unrefined for all the benefits. I fed it 3x/wk as well as used it topically when needed as a soothing and healing salve; I tried feeding it 2x/wk after his skin healed, but found he benefits most eating it 3x/wk. Previously I bought Spectrum brand from Wal-Mart, 14 oz. for $8.99; they were cheaper than my health food store. I recently found organic unrefined coco oil at my BJ’s, 36 oz. for about $10. So if you belong to a price club, look for it there.
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/02/coconut-oil-is-good-for-your-dogs.html
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/16_11/features/alternative-treatments-updated_20861-1.html?pg=3
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/
http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/InfusedCoconutOil/index.cfm

I started out feeding tinned sardines packed in water once a week, but I failed to keep it in my pantry on a regular basis. So I switched to a fish oil supplement. You can find many good fish oil supplements for dogs on-line and in pet stores. I used CVS 1000 mg fish oil tabs 3x/wk and I still supplement his diet with it. Tinned sardines packed in water would be the healthiest choice. I tried cutting back to 2x/week, but he developed a little dandruff so I am now back to 3x/week.
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_12/features/Fats-Chance_20658-1.html
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_9/features/Fish-Oil-Supplements-For-Dogs_20600-1.html
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/06/13/the-frequently-missing-ingredient-in-your-pet-s-diet-that-could-devastate-their-health.aspx

MSM helped to relieve and heal his itchy skin. MSM has other benefits that may be helpful for your dogs as well. I use only100% pure MSM powder with no fillers or flavorings. You can find pure MSM marketed for dogs on-line and in pet shops.
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/msm-raw-fed-dogs/
http://www.vetinfo.com/msm-for-dogs.html
http://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/msm-for-dogs.html
http://essentials4all.org/100__Pure_MSM.html
http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/naturvet_msm.html

I also used DE as a flea powder and for treating his environment. Some posters use garlic to repel fleas. Here’s some info:
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/garlic-for-dogs-poison-or-medicine/
http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs/All-Natural-Dog-Supplements
http://www.enonvalleygarlic.com/About_Garlic.html

Homepage

I was not fully aware of the important benefits of probiotics for our pets. I now feed kefir twice a week to Bobby for the probiotics. This would have made a tremendous difference with the healing process if I had used it during his skin/flea issues; if I only knew!
Probiotic info:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/10/26/advantages-of-using-pet-probiotics.aspx
http://probiotics.mercola.com/probiotics-for-pets.html
http://www.medicine4animals.com/23/Does-Your-Cat-or-Dog-Suffer-with-Digestive-Problems,-Skin-Problems-or-Poor-Immunity.html
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/05/foods-rich-in-probiotics-beneficial-for.html

ABC diet:
This is a download I highly recommend; it is $2.95 and worth every penny! I feed the ABC diet now throughout the week rather than in one meal. This is an easy way to enhance any kibble diet with fresh foods. I found this download after Bobby’s issues were cleared up, but I definitely would have followed it during that time. I believe it would have helped with the healing process.
http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

I recently started giving Bobby unflavored beef tendon and beef trachea chews. Here’s some healthy treat suggestions:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/02/10/easy-to-make-pet-treats.aspx

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Kate,

In theory, the Grandma Lucy’s pre-mix (once meat is added) should be a complete and balanced meal for your dog. You shouldn’t need to worry about other supplements though adding krill oil or fish oil can be beneficial. You can also add kefir, yogurt, or raw goats milk for probiotics.

Primal’s recommendation of feeding 2-3% of body weight is for raw food which is less calorically dense because of the amount of water in raw food. I don’t think the 2% rule carries over to dehydrated food like GL’s. I would feed the amount of food that keeps your dog in the right weight range. Feeding guidelines are just that…guidelines. Some dogs need more or less than what is suggested. It’s going to be trial and error to see what the right amount for your dog is.

I know finding a food your dog will eat has probably been very frustrating but I would keep at it. It’s best to rotate whatever food you are feeding, in this case the pre-mix. I would suggest rotating between different pre-mixes to make sure all of your bases are covered with vitamins/minerals. Some other pre-mixes you could look into include: The Honest Kitchen Preference, Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix, and Sojos (though I’m not a fan of that one). Also, I would limit the amount of tuna you feed as it can have high mercury levels. Canned sardines in water with no added salt would be a good fish to use and it is naturally high in omega 3s. Canned salmon is also good.

I hope this helps.

[Anita L]

Thanks for all the info BCNut and BobbyDog!

I will definitely be going to TSC tomorrow for the DE.
Our 55 lb Aussie/Blue Heeler (Gazpacho or Spocho) mix is the one that is having the worst reaction with the fleas (hot spot and hair loss -wise). Doc said she is allergic. He put activyl on her and said don’t bathe her for the next 3 or 4 weeks. But she has no hair on her butt (baboon butt)! He also gave her a shot for the itching. That was Friday and today, Mon, she is itching horribly. So now I am realizing about the house, the yard, the bedding, etc. We do not have carpet (hate it!). Actually we have slab right now due to water damage, ugh! But we do have a rug in the den and a rug in the bedroom. The rug in the den is a shag rug! I am dreading treating it but I know I have to. Any suggestions on this?

Spocho is also 9 years old and has trouble with her hips. The DE sounds like it would help her greatly! I am thinking that I will add it to the other supplements (Miracle Pack) which I give in plain yogurt. They love it!

On the treats, I do have some milk bones, marrow bones and raw hides left. I’m thinking I need to quit being cheap and throw them out. I have done so much research on the food that I haven’t gotten to treats and don’t even know where to start. Suggestions?

On the food, my pups only get kibbles (the quality kind). Now I am wondering if I need to add a canned food (quality kind of course).??????

I will also be picking up the medicated shampoo and the p/i sounds great too. I have coconut oil that I use already (on my skin, my hair, cuts/scrapes, and the list goes on). I tried to put it on Spocho’s butt once and it def seemed to soothe her right away, but a few mins later she was licking it off….is that normal?

I’m also thinking of adding coco oil to their supplements. What would you recommend on this? How much and how often?

Sorry for so many questions. I appreciate any answers!

[Case]

I use this recipe for Satin Balls:

1 pound of raw ground beef
8oz package of cream cheese
1 jar of all-natural peanut butter
12 egg yolks
10oz package of wheat germ
a cup of flaked oats that have been soaked in heavy cream

Mix ingredients. Form the mixture into balls and freeze. Thaw and feed as treats or food supplements as desired.

My dog LOVES them. I roll them into small balls and use them for treats.

[theBCnut]

Every dog reacts differently to anti anxiety supplements. Just because one doesn’t work, doesn’t mean the next one won’t. And just because xyz didn’t work for their dog, doesn’t mean it won’t work for yours.

[[email protected]]

hi all,
re Jasmine (13yr old dog with colitis and poss. IBD/ food intolerance.)

There are so many good suggestions here. I have been making Jasmine a diet of browned ground turkey and oatmeal for a week now hoping to address her colitis and loose stools. I haven’t added the psyillium as yet as it seems to loosen her even more. This diet was vet originated through Balance it. I have added pumpkin today to her mix to help firm her stools, I hope! She is still on metronidazole.

I have tried so many things and have settled on this home made diet until maybe a holistic vet can help me move her more into dogfood and apppropriate supplements.

She did the best on a hypo allergenic diet from RC – pot & venison but they changed the formula & the potatoes were also causing reflux. Noe sure where to head but at the moment enjoys the turkey, oatmeal & pumpkin. I add a senior vitamin each day.

Any thoughts on mixing in a kibble that is hypo or grain, chix potato free to help as she proceeds?

Best,

Karen

[Mom2Cavs]

I sometimes give fish oil, but tend to feed a fish based food instead because Laverne gets loose stools if I add too many oils. COQ10 is a supplement that is good for the heart and also gums. I give both made for human and dogs. The dose is usually 1 mg per pound. Right now I have on hand 10 mg capsules and 30 mg capsules that are fine to give. The 10 mg are vetri science for dogs and the 30 mg I ordered from Swanson’s. I have also given heart supplements for dogs that contain other good things to give like hawthorn, taurine, l-carnitine. Some brands I have used are vetri science cardio strength, thorne bio-cardio, nature’s farmacy heartwise. I am going to order some chews from Ark Naturals that are from their gray muzzle line for the heart soon to try.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Justine-
I have had similar issues with my dogs, however, they did have parasites. I’ve tried several supplements as well. Currently, I feed Victor grain free joint and health kibble. I use various toppers such as canned, raw, dehydrated and fresh mixed in. I almost always use a digestive enzyme and an occasional probiotic. They are doing much better now. I strongly suggest checking out dogaware.com website as they have so much information on digestive issues. If you are looking to change dry food, give Victor a try. Many on this site have done well with it. Also, plain pure pumpkin might be a great addition to your dog’s food. It is very healthy and adds fiber that is both helpful for constipation and loose stools. The supplements that I have used with success that I discovered from dogaware are: Gastriplex, Vetri Pro BD, Perfect Form and Phytomucil. I hope you find a winning combination because I know how frustrating your situation is. Cleaning up runny poop is not a good thing! Good luck.

[Leah12345]

As usual…genius input. A friend tried the anxiety supplements and they didn’t help. I was really disappointed bc I planned to try them for my reactive girl. Keep us posted regarding how effective the harness lead is. Everything said in this thread is applicable to my Lhasa mix. She is an okay heeler unless she sees a “threat” and then all bets are off. I am going to research the harness lead today.

[Dolly]

Hi,

I wanted to start giving my 15 yr old glucosamin chrondroitin supplements as she has arthritus. I bought a bottle with the following ingredients listed: Sodium, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroiton Sulfate- under other ingrediants: cellulose, gelatin, magnesium stearate and it says contains shrimp.

She has no known allergies, I wanted to know 1- is this safe? She also has mild heart problems which she is taking medicine for so I wanted to make sure this wouldnt cause any heart related strain.

Second- what is the dosage? she weighs about 55lbs.

Last- I also have a 9 year old cocker spaniel (about 30 lbs)- he shows no stiffness or pain, he’s very active and entergetic, but should I start him on a lower dosage now to help avoid it in the future?

thanks!

[Mom2Cavs]

Lew Olsen, is (I believe) a nutritionist. I’m sure these products are fine, but like other people (Dr. Becker, Ask Ariel, etc.) they are selling their own products. I like to look at dogaware.com for recommendations. I know that Lew’s supplements are on the list there.

[Cyndi]

I still worry if I’m giving Bailey the right vitamins/minerals/supplements, etc. Check out See Spot Live Longer dinner mix. I use that often. All you do is add it to boneless meat. I also use, on occasion, Dr. Harvey’s Multi-Vitamin & Mineral Herbal Dog Supplement. Other than that, I add Coconut oil, some tinned sardines a couple times a week, a fresh, cage free egg every couple days and some Apple Cider Vinegar, that’s pretty much it. It really did seem overwhelming to me at first, so I know how you feel, but once you get going and get the hang of it, it’s really easy. I’m still learning and I read everything I can about raw feeding and all the threads and stuff. The different kinds of raw foods you can feed your dog, once he’s used to it, are endless…

Zach M ~ You’re very welcome! 🙂

[Case]

Anybody tried these?

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/basic-supplements-for-daily-use-in-your-dogs-diet-2014/

[crazy4cats]

Hey Moms2Cavs-
I just added that to my supplement list. I often use canned pumpkin and sugar free applesauce with my dogs’ meals or kong treats. The combination usually is very helpful with the stools. This supplement would definitely keep better. Thanks!

Hey Susan B-
Let us know how the new food and supplements go. Good luck!

[Dori]

I wouldn’t. I have a dog with many food intolerances and allergies as well as environmental issues. She had very yeasty ears. What fixed that issue was going to an all grain free diet also free of corn, soy, white potatoes and any type of poultry. I avoid anything that has any type of yeast in it. Any food or supplements that I have tried with her that contain yeast of any sort starts the yeasty ears all over again. My other two dogs though not having any allergies or intolerances whatsoever also used to have gunky ears. Their ears have all cleared up also once I made all the switches. All clear now. Good Luck.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Dane –

First off, if he’s drinking large amounts of water, urinating frequently and he won’t gain weight you need to get him to the vet to have some diagnostic tests performed. These are potential symptoms of kidney disease or diabetes. A dog that’s fed a raw diet shouldn’t drink much water at all – my two (large) dogs don’t even drink one bowl of water per day between the two of them. I’m not trying to scare you but if something is going on the sooner you catch it the better the prognosis will be.

Second, are you adding anything to the Blue Ridge Beef grinds? Unless they’ve recently come out with a new complete and balanced product that I’m not aware of, I thought they just make meat/organ/bone grinds? Meat/organ/bone “grinds” (as they’re referred to) are not a balanced diet. They’re meant to serve as as the base of a meal and they make things simpler by already having the muscle meat, organ and bone in the correct proportions. Supplements still must be added to make the diet complete. While it’s possible to balance a homemade diet using whole foods only, for simplicity’s sake and to get him on a balanced diet as soon as possible, I’d recommend adding a multivitamin (look for one with <10% DV calcium – one I frequently recommend is Twinlab Daily One Caps). I’d also add 1/2 C. of cooked and pureed vegetables (baby food veggies are fine if you don’t want to cook and puree them yourself) and feed a tin of sardines or salmon once or twice a week OR add a capsule or two of fish oil daily. These additions will provide him with the vitamins and minerals he needs, a little fiber and omega 3 fatty acids.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[losul]

Trying this all over again, leaving out the last link this time…..

Hi Sueb66. The test for EPI would be a specific test for it, not included in ordinary blood work. I think in the U.S., Texas A.M. still does most of the current testing. If there is a B-12 deficiency and it is EPI related, no, an ordinary human B-12 supplement for it would
NOT work well at all. There is more info on the EPI sites, I provided to Jerry. Notice what the vet says about EPI in discussing IBD in the first link below, except she refers to it as PEI instead.

I can truly understand your frustration, and wanting to get a more reasonable solution than a surgical biopsy, and/or treatment with steroids which seems extreme, scary and a last/near last resort, I would be too. To be fair though, I can imagine your conventional vet(s) probably get frustrated also, and would much rather get a clearer diagnosis and treatment plan.

I don’t really know exactly how long all this has been going on, exactly what diagnostic testing has been already done, what has been ruled out and what has not, what medicines/treatments/alternatives/supplements have been tried, how much and whether you have adhered to your vets’ reccomendations etc. I also don’t really know what kind of diagnostics, drugs, supplements, foods etc. are available there in Australia. I can’t really say what i would do, as I’m not in your shoes, and so much is unknown. All one can do is research as best as possible, see that hopefully all the bases have been covered, learn risks, gain more knowledge, come up with some possible answers/solutions/alternatives, and make good decisions.

IBD is a pretty generalized but often complex condition, that can have several root causes and much interconnectibility with other issues. It basically means a chronic inflammation of the digestive tract. Left uncontrolled it can lead to more serious issues. I would guess the vets have explained that to you? A more holistic or integrative vet may come to some of the same conclusions as your current vets, but would likely differ on exact course(s) of action/approach. Perhaps you should still seek one out or try the one you mentioned?

Hopefully pointing you to some additional articles may help some;

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=598&S=0&EVetID=0

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2006&Category=&PID=16071&O=Generic

http://dogaware.com/health/digestive.html#ibd

[SandyandMila]

Yeah, just need to stock up locally and from Hares Today and get some supplements. I want her to try all kinds of different stuff. I’m pretty excited about it!

[crazy4cats]

The BCnut-
Did you really want to tell me that? Lol! Thanks for the help with supplements.
Cindy-
I feed mostly kibble with various toppers. I give mine digestive enzymes every meal. Probiotics and a green supplement twice a week and right now garlic granules everyday for increases flea protection. You can just start adding these things slowly. You are off to a great start. You are feeding high quality products. You are way ahead of the average dog owner!

[zcRiley]

UPDATE: The pups have been strictly on Natural Balance Synergy Dry for only 2 days (while still taking their antibiotic for campi bacteria). And wouldn’t you know, their stools became perfect the next day. For the 1st time in a very long time. I’m kinda in shock as I stare at what I eliminated all at the same time: the 2 types of Orijen, the omega supplements, the calming chew, the Cosequin DS, the antioxidants, probiotics & enzymes, all the treats. I guess I have to start adding things back into their diet one at a time…..

Nancy C: Dr. Tim’s Pursuit sounds great, crossing my fingers for you!

Case: Thanks for the Orijen super sleuthing. All the fish they use being year round available, that’s interesting…. anyway, just tossed my bag of Orijen 6 Fish out the window. It started smelling funny.

[cindy q]

theBCnut what supplements do you use?

[Susan]

Hi Iosul, May I ask a few quiestions, Patch had an ultra scan last Thursday cause he was vomiting up only his kibble for 2 days & had his pain under right side rib cage again…his Ultra Scan came back all good, this new vet said IBD like Patches first vet has said but Im having troubles believing that he has IBD as Patch suffers more stomach reflux & burping, I feel that Patch has GERDs this new vet wants Patch on Prednisolone 30mg daily for 2weeks then we reduce, I told him about Patches stomach & Patches bad acid & bringing up his chicken & pumkin when he burps so I put it on toast now & this keeps it down, he just said give him Zantac as well then he said that the Prednisolone will fix his red paws, I told him that his paws go red only when it rains & he walks on wet grass as we’ve had rain again for over 1 week, now Patches paws have cleared up again cause there’s been no rain plus I try not to walk him on wet grass…Ive read that Prednisolone isnt good for dogs with Pancreatitis or Stomach problems as it can cause stomach ulcers, I still havnt given Patch his Prednisolone, Ive been giving him his Zantac again & Patch seem much better..see I stopped his Zantac about 2 months ago as he was doing much better & all his reflux went away he stopped waking up in the middle of the nite with Patch swollowing & swollowing acid, it all stopped only some mornings he’d be a bit burpy, The only way to see if he has IBD is to cut him open like his other vet wanted to do & I wouldnt let him as Patch doesnt have no diarrhea no more since Ive worked out that he needs a low fat diet, Im even wondering does he have pancreatits as the ultra scan came back all good but the Pancreas mite be getting better & not be swollen as Patches pain did start 2 weeks ago when I started moving, he started following me like I was leaving him behind, I feel that he started to stress himself out & has givin himself acid thru stress.. I have GERD & he seems to have alot of my symtoms.. first vet tried Losec 20mg but Patch had a reaction on the 2nd day his gums went white & he was acting real weird & falling over, I had to carry him home from the beach that morning maybe 20mg was too high for a 18 kilo dog he was 18kilo back then now he’s around 16-17 kilos …what would you do if Patch was ur dog, you mentioned supplements Ive read abit about L-Gutamine but I live Australia do I go to the health foods store & use a human one also what do u mean when u say incubating. I give Patch a probiotic every moring Ive been doing that since last August..Ive been too scared to try any oils at this time, I dont want to aggravate his stomach in anyway..

[theBCnut]

I rotate everything, kibble, canned, raw, supplements, everything. One of my dogs used to be picky, but once I started rotational feeding, he has never missed a meal, or even eaten slowly.

[JeffreyT]

Probiotics, digestive enxymes and healthier foods (home cooked and raw dehydrated), plus some other supplements have helped my dog’s bloody, loose stool and immune system. The probiotics that I have used are Mercola, Wysong (which also has colostrum in it to help build immune system), and VSL#3 (a medical grade probiotic delivered with ice). I’ve heard good things about Nusentia’s Probiotic Miracle helping IBD.

You may want to call Animals Essentials (they are very knowledgeable and their products are the purest around) and ask what may help. I’ve used their phytomucil for both loose stools and constipation. I’ve also found Wysong supplements to be helpful during times of sickness.

Here is Dr.Karen Becker’s take on IBD
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/11/02/inflammatory-bowel-disease-in-pets.aspx
Here is Dogaware’s info which may be helpful too
http://dogaware.com/health/digestive.html#ibd
Keep searching and you will find an answer.

Sometimes medicine is needed but my preference is using natural so it actually heals and gets to the root of the problem.
Good luck.

[losul]

Jerry was just reading on the global span site – So i Guess even though coco oil is very easily digested and takes very little enzymatic action to do so, it might still be advisable to incubate first;

“Incubating supplements.
Some supplements should be incubated, because they require digestion
Example: Kelp, fish oils, coconut oils
Some supplements should not be incubated, or they will be destroyed
Example: Probiotics (such as acidophilus)
For some supplements, it doesn’t seem to matter
Example: L-Glutamine
Whether or not a supplement should be incubated can be confusing. A general rule of thumb is that if it’s a food-like substance which likely contains carbohydrates, fats, or proteins, it should be incubated. Some supplements may contain fillers or extra ingredients that require incubation, so read labels closely. Good advice on this topic is available from the K9-EPIGLOBAL Yahoo Group.”

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by losul.

[theBCnut]

Don’t feel bad. We all start where we are and move on from there. I don’t think there is a single person here that didn’t feed something to their dog at some point that they wish they hadn’t.

For your dog with seizures, I would suggest Nature’s Logic, at least to start with. Many of us have come to the realization that we don’t believe that there is any such thing as a perfect dog food, so we rotate through several different ones. For a dog with seizures, you want your food to be as natural as possible.

For your BC, I would just feed it whatever you feed the first one and add a joint supplement. None of the foods that claim to be joint foods actually have a therapeutic dose in them, so don’t bother with those. Swanson’s has supplements at good prices.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Zach –

You can certainly make your own supplements. I make my own for two reasons – it’s much cheaper than buying pre-mixed supplements and I can pick exactly which ingredients are in the supplement and in which proportions. I was running into a problem where every supplement I came across either had ingredients I didn’t want or didn’t have an ingredient I did want so I decided it would just make more sense to make my own. I purchase most of my ingredients in large quantities from Swanson Vitamins, Starwest Botanicals, Vitacost and Nature’s Farmacy. You shouldn’t have a problem finding most of the ingredients that are in Dinovite. My guess is that it’s likely the probiotics, enzymes and omega 3’s that help the most with the itching, so with whatever supplement you mix up I’d be sure to include those ingredients (at a minimum).

Here’s an article by Dr. Becker with some suggestions for itchy, smelly dogs.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Zach M]

I was just wondering, what makes products like Dinovite work? Is there a way that I could make my own version at my house? Also, what foods trigger the things that dinovite cures? What foods reduce smell and stop itching?

[Jerry S]

Our “Black Golden” Somba is a 10 year old Black Lab x Golden who has been suffering from EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency) for 8 years. She has been on PancrePlus enzyme supplements, but just seems to continually be a “bag of bones” . She eats 5 cups of Purina ONE Smartblend daily with the supplement mixed in with water, and then let it stew for about 20 minutes. She has lots of energy, and has about 3 humongous poops every day. We have been told that she needs a low fat, highly digestible food in order to put some meat on her bones instead of just passing it thru for me to pick up. Am looking for a better food and/or supplement to improve her condition. Any suggestions?
DJ Sads

[DogFoodie]

Here’s link to their website: http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs/All-Natural-Dog-Supplements There’s a lot of really useful information on their website.

There are quite a few regular posters here who’ve used BOG with great success for years. You might find this thread useful: /forums/topic/springtime-supplements/

[crazy4cats]

Hi Zolicylus-

Unfortunately, I’ve had the same issues. My pups went through four or five treatments for giardia and then coccidia. First of all, are you sure they are clear of the giardia? Sometimes it is very tough to rid of. Next, you will have to be patient because the parasites and remedies can be tough on their intestines. It has taken almost 9 months to get consistent stools. I have used several supplements in addition to probiotics and enzymes. On dogaware.com, there are several ideas to help with these issues. I often used remedies that were suggested for leaky gut or IBS. When first starting a supplement, such as a probiotic, make sure to start slow. Only give half or a quarter of the recommended amount and build up to make sure it doesn’t cause upset. I think slippery elm and L-Glutamine are beneficial. I’ve used Gastriplex, Vetri-Pro BD, HK’s Perfect Form, Friutables Digestive supplement, Seacure and Phytomucil. Most of them contain a probiotic or enzyme with some diarrhea meds also. I am definitely not in the veterinarian field, so these are just suggestions from a fellow frustrated dog owner. Please check with your vet if you have any concerns. My former vet, who moved, actually recommended the Phytomucil, probiotics and enzymes. Good luck. I know it’s frustrating. And like Case, I’m curious about what you are currently feeding and using.

[Case]

What are you feeding? What brand are your supplements?

I’ve had similar issues and just started probiotucs/enzymes 3 days ago.

[T]

Hi Sue,

Pred can cause a quick turnaround for SOME dogs, but I’ve seen more than one who did not have a miracle cure from it. Without a histological diagnosis (biopsy) it’s anyone’s guess what’s going on at a cellular level. That doesn’t stop you from providing some well-considered therapy, though. Have you considered seeing a vet who uses traditional Chinese medicine techniques? I’ve had some decent luck with chronic diarrhea/vomiting/mysterious GI badness using diet, nutritional supplements and herbs +/- acupuncture. And all that stuff can be used in conjunction with pred or whatever conventional meds you are trying.

Tabitha
http://naturalalternativesvet.com

[Bobby dog]

I thought I read some comments about Merrick GF kibbles as well, but it appears my mind is playing tricks on me. All the recent comments that C4c and I were writing about was from the WEF GF thread; possible quality control issues with this kibble line. Also seems they have had quality control issues in the past.

/dog-food-reviews/whole-earth-farms-grain-free/
http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm217086.htm

Maybe try a grooming glove for Alec. I know what you mean; sometimes those ornery kitties won’t sit still for a brushing or they start attacking you or the brush. I use a glove for my female kitty. She is fine being petted, for some reason does not like to be brushed too much. I actually use an old pair of riding gloves that have the rubber pebble grip coating on the palms. Wal-Mart carries Pet Head Massaging Bath Mitt for $5.44. They also had some grooming gloves on sale for $1.97 last month, don’t know if they still do or if that was just at my Wal-Mart.

Maybe Alec does not like the taste of supplements mixed in his food. Sometimes cats will eat supplements, like coco oil or honey, better without mixing them in their food. Archie, who eats almost anything, will not eat his food if I mix in anything. Supplements have to be hidden in little globs throughout his food, or fed on separately. Coco oil dosage for cats is ¼ teaspoon 2x daily to ½ teaspoon 1x daily per 10 lbs.

http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/02/coconut-oil-is-good-for-your-dogs.html

[Bobby dog]

The threads we’re writing about are in the regular forum, Merrick and Whole Earth Farm threads, take a peak.

I hope it’s only a matter of him passing a hairball and you don’t have to visit the Vet. Glad you’ll be home with him tommorrow. 🙂

Be careful not to overfeed coco oil, it can cause digestive upsets/issues. Giving supplements may or may not be good for him if his tummy is upset.

How about the suspected bladder infection issue, did you ever get that urine sample? Licking those areas could be a sign of infection.

Did your Vet suggest adding extra fiber to help pass whatever showed up on the X-Ray?

Also, brush him daily. That will make a huge difference with hairballs.

[ladyquixote]

Hi all, first want to thank ya’ll for all the great info you supply here. Have been gathering nutrition info for about a year now and have some major budgeting concerns regarding planning cooked meals for my two dogs. Background: Eldest dog, Gracie is 12 y.o./55# (she is much bigger than standard Aussie) and has major yeast and anxiety problems. Found an alt vet last March who prescribed a variety of chinese herb powders which have significantly helped both problems but still a work in progress. Second dog, Tonto is about 3-1/2 (turned up at my front door emaciated last year and ended up part of our family). He weighs about 60 and is experiencing airborne allergies, due for vet check tomorrow for further input. Both are Aussie mixes.

Foodwise, they were on a mix of the 5-star dry no-grain dog foods since beginning of last year, then began adding the usual recommended toppers plus supplements and then transitioned to all-cooked meals over the last three months. It’s quickly begun taking a lot of my time to prepare meals, so this evening I sat down to figure out my monthly cost. Until now I would go out and buy enough food for a week so the cost bite wasn’t so noticeable.

I knew it was getting too costly but the final tally ended up being $15/day for two dogs! Way, way too much. In addition to the food, there are the supplemental herbs and now monthly visits to the alt vet to check progress which should end once both dogs level off with their itchies.

I’ve removed cottage cheese, carrots and rice which make great fillers because both dogs’ itchies worsened. So more meat takes the place.

My question to you is this, if I switch back to at least level 4-star dry dog food and toppers what would you suggest would be the right ratio between the both?

Gracie’s daily calorie target: 1037, Tonto’s daily calorie target: 1280
Here is a sample 1-day meal divided into two meals for Gracie:
— Chicken Liver pate, (chicken liver smothered then pureed): 2 TBSP 47 Cal
— Chicken Hearts, (lightly smothered then chopped fine): 1-1/2C 402 Cal
— Turkey, Ground; 93% Lean: 1-1/4C 425 Cal
— Mixed Veggies, 1 Cup Cooked then pureed: 40 Cal
— Pumpkin, Canned; 2 TBSP: 13 Cal
— Berries, 1/2 C: 36 Cal
— Alternate Every Day: Either 1-Egg or 1/2 tin Sardines in Water: 65-72 Cal
— Supplements include, Probiotics, 1/2 tsp finely ground eggshells, 1-multi, fish oil or coconut oil.

I’d be interested in your input as well as hearing what your average cost per day is for two medium sized dogs! Thanks so much.

[Dori]

Once again, I wanted to thank everyone that has kept us in their thoughts and prayers.

We took Hannah to her vet this a.m. where she was supposed to have a “traumatic catherization” of the nodule in her bladder. Before doing so, routinely before anesthetizing, they do a chest x-ray to check the lungs. They found a mass on the lobe of one of her lungs and her vet did not feel comfortable anesthetizing her. She is consulting with her other vet at Georgia Veterinary Specialists, plus the radiologist there and also an oncologist to come up with a plan. They have all said that surgery is not an option. They could possibly, not sure, do an aspiration during an ultra sound by the radiologist of the mass in her lung lobe to find out what it is. Chemo and radiation, of course, are not options for her either due to her age and her liver issues and, of course, there is the issue with her bladder. Neither my husband nor I would put her through any of that anyway. There may or may not be medications to try to slow the progression of either of these issues if they knew what they are. But, they can’t know what the bladder issue is without the catherization which they cannot do without anesthesia and, of course, they cannot do that because of the mass in the lung lobe. It appears through the x-ray that part of the mass in lung lobe is calcified so it may have been there for a long time but they don’t know. I’m hoping that’s a good sign because she doesn’t have any symptoms of lung cancer. As I said, things have gone from bad to dramatically worse. We just want her to be well and do the very best we can for her as she has done for us. In the mean time I will give her whatever supplements, and healthy foods I have always done. I’m reading a lot of books on canine cancer and doing the best I can. I will start cancer supplements one at a time for three days before introducing any others. Meantime I will continue her liver health regime. Of course, for me, I think there’s a lot of wine in my future. I will continue to pretend I’m happy and peppy in from of Hannah, Lola and Katie pretending that life, as we know it, is perfectly normal. Again, thank you all of DFA for your love, guidance and support. Love, Dori

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Dori.

[theBCnut]

There is no commercially available food that has a therapeutic dose of joint supplements in a serving size, so you would do best to find a food that otherwise your dog does great on and then add in a joint supplement.

[Fabienne L]

Freeze-dried and Dehydrated pet food are NOT the same as raw non-hpp pet food. You may consider raw hpp, freeze-dried and dehydrated pet food as processed pet food. Yes, it is better than dry pet food, but it is still processed. Supplements should be added to this food! Recommended supplements include: vitamins, minerals, probiotics, milk thistle to name a few. Non HPP raw pet food is truly species appropriate pet food. Small Batch and Halshan are true species appropriate pet food. When comparing pet food you can see the differences in the ingredients. HPP raw and freeze-dried, such as Stella and Chewys and other pet food contain many added supplements in them. The list of ingredients is long! When you look at Small Batch the ingredients are simply simple, no added supplements. Pets gets the nutrition they need from the meat, organ meat and fruit and vegetable. I always suggest that pet owners (guardians) add probiotics and milk thistle to their non hpp raw pet food.

[Bobby dog]

Alright here’s my info: 🙂
~Pure Love Chlorhexidine 4% Shampoo for Dogs and Cats $8.99 – Same % of the same active ingredient in Nolvasan shampoo.

Info on Nolvasan shampoo:
http://www.vetstreet.com/nolvasan-shampoo

Shampoo link on Petflow:
http://www.petflow.com/product/pure-love/chlorhexidine-4-shampoo-for-dogs-and-cats

~Pure Love Ketoconazole 1%, Chlorhexidine Gluconate 2% Shampoo for Dogs and Cats $9.99 – Active Ingredients in Malaseb shampoo are 2% Chlorhexidine Gluconate and 2% Miconazole Nitrate. Ketoconazole looks similar to Miconazole.

Info on Malaseb shampoo:
http://www.drugs.com/vet/malaseb-shampoo.html

Info on ketoconazole:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/ketoconazole-topical-route/description/drg-20067739

Shampoo link on Petflow:
http://www.petflow.com/product/pure-love/ketoconazole1-chlorhexidine2-shampoo-for-dogs-and-cats

I probably would buy the Pure Love Ketoconazole 1%, Chlorhexidine Gluconate 2% Shampoo for Dogs and Cats. These are good prices for the amount of product. Maybe someone else will have a suggestion for you as to which shampoo sold on Petflow they would recommend.

You can also buy antiseptic/antibacterial cleansers in the first aid aisle of most stores that have the same % of the active ingredient in Nolvasan shampoo. Hibiclens is a name brand example, but many drug stores have their own versions of it. I have a bottle of Hibiclens in the barn; I must not have been able to find Nolvasan the last time I needed it.

Here’s a link to Hibiclens:
http://www.hibiclens.com/retail
http://www.hibiclens.com/retail/where-to-buy-hibiclens

[crazy4cats]

Yes, it seems to be the case with all the supplements I’ve used. Is your dog having issues? If yes, I would go ahead and start with the double dosing. If not, just go with the maintenance dosage. Actually, the first couple of days you could build up to the initial dosing if concerned about any side effects. My pups do well on it.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Raam-
I too, have had some battles with Giardia. During that time I never knew if they were suffering from a food intolerance or if the Giardia was back. It was very stressful. Luckily, they have been negative for about 9 months. They were also treated several times with panacur and antibiotics. It has taken a long time to get their tummies back to normal. They have always been interested in eating though, thank goodness! I am feeding them Victor grain free with a variety of toppers with good luck. However, I do use various supplements which have also helped soothe their tummies. Much information can be found on dogaware.com with digestive issues. It is a great site. Many of the supplements that I’ve used are made by Vetri Science, Thorne, Animal Essentials and Honest Kitchen. As Sue said, it might be best to start with something bland and work your way back to a better kibble. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Case-
I have used and recently ordered the same digestive enzymes that you just ordered made by Vetri-Science. They are a combo product. They contain enzymes, probiotics, prebiotics and other supplements as well. The other supplements such as, NAG and L-Glutamine are known to be helpful with loose stools. My dogs do well with this supplement as they have bouts of leaky gut or some type of IBS. Not sure if this is what you were looking for or not. I also occasionally use Gastriplex or THK Perfect Form. Good luck.

[Shawna]

I think maybe they just don’t know what to say to help but they want to try to make you feel better!! As I noted in my first post Dr. Dressler says tcbc is very treatable.

You also can’t beat yourself up over choices you’ve made up to this point or from this point forward. Everything we do, we do with our pups best interest in mind.. If you weren’t treating and she got heartworm you would have been kicking yourself for not giving her the preventatives. We all do the best we can with the information we have at the time. You simply can’t do better than that!!!

I definitely would hold off starting too many supplements (unless made from food) to make sure one doesn’t counter or have a negative reaction with another etc. My dad is a Master Herbalist and I know he would give me some guidance if needed — if some of the supps are herbal that is. The food ones (if therapeutic) I would introduce slowly so as not to initiate to fast of a healing. I also think it is VERY important for you to read Dr. Goldsteins chapter on the healing crisis in his book. Do you have a library close?

You can reach me any time tomorrow from 10:00 am to 8:00 pm Central time. Tomorrow is house cleaning / laundry day. We may go out for lunch or dinner but otherwise I’ll just be cleaning. Try to get some restful sleep tonight.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.

[crazy4cats]

Yes, Dori, please don’t give up. I sure wish I knew about this site 3 years ago when my vet told us that our previous dog “most likely” had cancer. He ran a few blood tests and did an X-ray. Said it would cost too much to do more tests and he was almost 12 so he didn’t think it would make sense. We just gave him steroids and metronidazole for about 6 months before he died. I just can’t help but wonder if I changed his diet or tried some supplements, we could have had him around longer. I just believed the vet. So anyway, do everything you can to help your little girl, so you won’t have any regrets. I’m sure I really didn’t need to tell you that though. Keep smiling because she knows when you’re sad. Best wishes!