Bladder Cancer

Dog Food Advisor Forums Off Topic Forum Bladder Cancer

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  • #43536 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    I’d like to know if anyone has had a canine with Transitional Cell Bladder Carcinoma and what if anything you found that at least helped the quality of life. Thanks so much. Dori

    #43601 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Dori,
    There’s a fb group for dogs with cancer. Let me know if you want to be added.

    #43604 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Thank you Marie. I would appreciate it. As always, thank you for thinking of us.

    #43624 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    I think of you all the time, Dori, even if I forget to email! I just added you to the fb group.

    #43627 Report Abuse

    Bobby dog
    Member

    Dori:
    Has one of your babies been diagnosed with this?

    #43637 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Marie. Thank you sweetie. I think of you too all the time and thrilled to see you’ve moved to a cane. I know it’s more painful but it’s the next step to full recovery.

    #43638 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Hi Bobby Dog. Yep! Hannah, my 15 year old Maltese (she’ll be 15 on 9/9/2014) has been diagnosed this week with Transitional Cell Carinoma in her Bladder. It was found incidentally because her liver levels were high and multiple blood tests and ultra sounds. Two ultra sounds back it was discovered and last ultra sound it’s still there, not any smaller but not any bigger. Next Wednesday she will have what they call a “Traumatic Catheterization of the bladder” do get a firm diagnosis. So far all vets that have seen ultra sound results are pretty certain that it’s cancer. Prognosis is 10 months at the out most. I’m beyond consolable. If possible, my husband is worse. I’m going to try to figure out about supplements and whether I should be cooking her meals or keep her on raw or what I need to be doing. Thank you Bobby Dog for asking.

    #43640 Report Abuse

    Bobby dog
    Member

    Dori:
    I am so sorry, I don’t have any help or information to offer you. If I come across anything I will be sure to post it here.

    One thing I know for sure is you will be taking care of her like no one else could. You will make the right decisions and do the best for her, no doubt.

    I am sending positive thoughts to Hannah, you, and your family.

    #43641 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Thank you Bobby Dog for your positive thoughts to Hannah and us. We need them.

    #43669 Report Abuse

    Denise A
    Member

    I’m so sorry for your news. When my dog, Duchess, was diagnosed with cancer of the spleen I immediately put her on more supplements. I found out that shark cartilage and tumeric cucumin helps with tumors. I also got her K-9 Immunity Capsules and Transfer Factor wafers from Aloha Medicinals. I bought directly from them for several months and then found a cheaper place. If you want to know where, please let me know.

    #43680 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Denise, thank you for your help. Any info as to supplements, dosages and where to buy would be a Godsend. Also any other supplements you were feeding her. Did you switch her food? If so to what foods and how did Duchess fare on all? Thank you so much.

    #43683 Report Abuse

    Cyndi
    Member

    Dori, you and your family continue to be in my thoughts and prayers. I don’t know what else to say, I can’t imagine being in your position. I was just wondering if you ran all this by Shawna? I know she doesn’t often post on the forums. Or, maybe you have talked to her? I know how much of a help she can be with just about everything… Hang in there and know we will all be praying for you and Hannah.

    #43691 Report Abuse

    losul
    Member

    Dori, It pains me to hear this, yet I can’t imagine the immense pain you are going through, so so sorry. You have a lot of people in your corner wishing you and yours the best, I can be counted amongst those. As others have said, Hannah could not be in better hands, Dori.

    I’m usually kind of reserved/cautious about the claims of some supplements, but the power of medicinal mushrooms is one I have previously researched and have some faith in. A few of them of them, I sometimes use in cooking. I decided that if my circumstances ever warranted, I would definitely consider giving them a shot therapeutically for my dog. K-9 immunity and transfer factors that Denise A mentioned, is one that I had looked into, and liked.

    http://www.dogcancer.net/

    #43693 Report Abuse

    DogFoodie
    Member

    Mercola has a while food, organic mushroom supplement: http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/mushroom-complex-for-pets/

    #43695 Report Abuse

    Denise A
    Member

    The best price I found for K 9 immunity and transfer factor (they really go together – My Dad had cancer treatments with transfer factor too) was here: http://search.911healthshop.com/?p=Q&ts=custom&query=k9+immunity&view=list

    How many pounds is your dog?

    I also used tumeric cucurmin and shark cartilage.

    Duchess was 14 when she was diagnosed and lived several months after that. The supplements really helped her.

    #43696 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Cyndi: Thank you for sending all good thoughts our way. I truly appreciate it as I appreciate your kindness. No, I have not heard from Shawna yet but I am hoping to.

    Losul: Thank you for your kind words and for reaching out to me. I have just ordered the K-9 supplements and am about to go to the Mercola site and check out the mushroom supplement that Betsy directed me. (How is your dog doing with HW treatment?)

    Betsy: Hi Betsy, thanks so much for directing me to the mushroom supplement at Mercola (Dr. Becker). I’m going to check that out right now.

    Denise A. Thank you for the information on K-9 supplements. I’ve ordered them a few moments ago. Hannah was weighing 7.5 lbs. Yesterdays weight at vet shows her at 6.8 lbs. They tried two different scales to confirm the loss of weight. How much turmeric curcurmin were you giving or that you think I should be giving. In her food??? Shark Cartilage? Where would I find that and how much to give? Anything else? Did you change diet yes or no? What were you feeding her if you changed her diet? Sorry for all the questions but I’m in panic mode at the moment. Been on the computer all last evening and night so I’m a little wired.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by  Dori.
    #43699 Report Abuse

    losul
    Member

    Dori, while I think that Mercola’s product is likely a great supplement product for overall health, and Dr. Becker does bring up some good points about whole vs isolates, If it were me, in Hannah’s case targeting cancer, I would be much more inclined to try the targeted and concentrated isolate extracts in K-9 immunity. Both companies use lab grown shrooms under controlled conditions- no China grown shrooms, most of these mushrooms are native to the Far East. You might want to consider Mercola’s supplemental product for your other dogs.

    Also I think I would use just the straight K-9 immunity and add transfer factor, instead of K-9 immunity plus, which might contain some added questionable ingredients.

    Also, I don’t know much about these, but apocaps could be something to look into…..

    http://www.dogcancer.net/apocaps-info.php

    Turbos doing well. I’ll write more on that later. I don’t know what, if anything, should be changed in Hannah’s diet. Does your vet(s) know what you have been feeding?

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by  losul.
    #43702 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Oh Dori!!!!!!!! I’m so very sorry.

    I did a quick google search and found that apoptosis and antiangiogenosis are both effective treatments of Transitional Cell Bladder Carcinoma (which I’m going to abbreviate to tcbc for the rest of the post). Then I googled “Dr Demian Dressler tcbc”. Dr. Dressler owns the website “dog cancer blog”. There is a video of him and his partner (who is an veterinary oncologist) specifically on tcbc. They say it is very treatable!! GOOD Dr. D also specifically mentions it responds to apoptosis. GOOD The video is here http://www.dogcancer.tv/transitional-cell-carcinoma-what-you-need-to-know-about-your-dogs-cancer/

    As a quick reminder — apoptosis is when the cells of the body get old, damaged or unhealthy (like cancer) and commit “suicide”. It is normal and supposed to happen but sometimes it doesn’t happen (due to certain drugs or bacteria/virus or other reasons). Angiogenosis is when new blood vessels are formed (this happens with healing but tumors also cause these blood vessels to grow to them which supplies them with the nutrition they need to grow). ANTIangiogenic products (medications and foods/supplements) cause those blood vessels to die which blocks nutrients from getting to the tumor and the tumor starves to death.

    Dr. Dressler and Ettinger recommend a home cooked “cancer” diet. BUT, Dr. Martin Goldstein is well known for great success with dogs that other vets have given up on due to cancer. Dr. Goldstein recommends a species appropriate raw diet. That said, they both also utilize other treatments and supplements. If the finances allow, I think his office (Dr. Goldstein) would be a great one to get a consult with (by phone if nothing else – they are in New York (or is it New Jersey?)). I personally would stick with raw but you have to do what you think is best for Hannah.. Both raw and cooked are appropriate for different reasons in my opinion.

    Okay, so we know that tcbc responds to apoptotic and antiangiogenic products. With that in mind I would DEFINITELY start turmeric or even curcumin (which is the anti-cancer active ingredient in turmeric). Turmeric also has additional benefits so maybe both versus one or the other?? If buying turmeric it MUST be organic as otherwise it could be irradiated. I would also start the enzyme bromelain away from meals as it induces both apoptosis and antiangiogenosis. As does fresh garlic (pending there is no blood loss, surgery, anemia). Garlic could also kill bacteria and viri if an happen to be blocking apoptosis. Also help with bladder infections if that is a concern? Dr. Ettiger, in the above video, says that can be a concern.

    Other antiangiogenic foods are blueberries, mushrooms, strawberries etc. More antiagiogenic foods here http://blog.ted.com/2010/02/10/dr_william_lis/ Dr. Li states that antiangiogenic foods work synergistically so the more you can add to the diet the better off. Not all in one meal or one day of course.

    Some other supplements known, in the holistic world at least, to help with cancer are apricot seeds (due to their high amounts of vitamin b17), essiac tea (which includes a bunch of anti-cancer herbs), flor essence (a specific brand of essiac like tea), coconut oil (not sure it actually helps the cancer? but it will help keep the calories up in a pancreas friendly way and has so many other benefits), probiotics (help the immune system and have been shown to help “bladder cancer” I believe through the fatty acids (like butyric and lactic acids) they produce), enzymes given with the food will help for the most complete digestion and nutrient absorption plus allow (many think) the metabolic enzymes to be spared from having to help with digestion (especially in older dogs). I know there’s more I’m not thinking of. I’ll post again if/when I think of them.

    Call or email me ANY TIME if you want.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by  Shawna.
    #43704 Report Abuse

    losul
    Member

    Dori, most of what I have read strongly suggests that transitional cell carcinoma in the urinary tract is possibly entirely environmental and in canines it’s suggested that’s it’s suspected causal agents may be certain flea control products and cyclophosphamide. Cyclophosphamide is ironically used as a chemotheraphy and autoimuune disorder agent. There are other predisposing factors such as repeated urinary infections, dogs required to hold their urine for lengthy periods, etc.

    Causes
    Flea-control products (organophosphates and carbamate) and cyclophosphamide.

    http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/cancer/c_dg_urinary_carcinoma

    #43705 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Oh Dori!!!!!!!! I’m so very sorry.

    I did a quick google search and found that apoptosis and antiangiogenosis are both effective treatments of Transitional Cell Bladder Carcinoma (which I’m going to abbreviate to tcbc for the rest of the post). Then I googled “Dr Demian Dressler tcbc”. Dr. Dressler owns the website “dog cancer blog”. There is a video of him and his partner (who is an veterinary oncologist) specifically on tcbc. They say it is very treatable!! GOOD Dr. D also specifically mentions it responds to apoptosis. GOOD The video is here http://www.dogcancer.tv/transitional-cell-carcinoma-what-you-need-to-know-about-your-dogs-cancer/

    As a quick reminder — apoptosis is when the cells of the body get old, damaged or unhealthy (like cancer) and commit “suicide”. It is normal and supposed to happen but sometimes it doesn’t happen (due to certain drugs or bacteria/virus or other reasons). Angiogenosis is when new blood vessels are formed (this happens with healing but tumors also cause these blood vessels to grow to them which supplies them with the nutrition they need to grow). ANTIangiogenic products (medications and foods/supplements) cause those blood vessels to die which blocks nutrients from getting to the tumor and the tumor starves to death.

    Dr. Dressler and Ettinger recommend a home cooked “cancer” diet. BUT, Dr. Martin Goldstein is well known for great success with dogs that other vets have given up on due to cancer. Dr. Goldstein recommends a species appropriate raw diet. That said, they both also utilize other treatments and supplements. If the finances allow, I think his office (Dr. Goldstein) would be a great one to get a consult with (by phone if nothing else – they are in New York (or is it New Jersey?)). I personally would stick with raw but you have to do what you think is best for Hannah.. Both raw and cooked are appropriate for different reasons in my opinion.

    Okay, so we know that tcbc responds to apoptotic and antiangiogenic products. With that in mind I would DEFINITELY start turmeric or even curcumin (which is the anti-cancer active ingredient in turmeric). Turmeric also has additional benefits so maybe both versus one or the other?? If buying turmeric it MUST be organic as otherwise it could be irradiated. I would also start the enzyme bromelain away from meals as it induces both apoptosis and antiangiogenosis. As does fresh garlic (pending there is no blood loss, surgery, anemia).

    Other antiangiogenic foods are blueberries, mushrooms, strawberries etc. More antiagiogenic foods here http://blog.ted.com/2010/02/10/dr_william_lis/ Dr. Li states that antiangiogenic foods work synergistically so the more you can add to the diet the better off. Not all in one meal or one day of course.

    Some other supplements known, in the holistic world at least, to help with cancer are apricot seeds (due to their high amounts of vitamin b17), essiac tea (which includes a bunch of anti-cancer herbs), flor essence (a specific brand of essiac like tea), coconut oil (not sure it actually helps the cancer? but it will help keep the calories up in a pancreas friendly way and has so many other benefits), probiotics (help the immune system and have been shown to help “bladder cancer” I believe through the fatty acids (like butyric and lactic acids) they produce), enzymes given with the food will help for the most complete digestion and nutrient absorption plus allow (many think) the metabolic enzymes to be spared from having to help with digestion (especially in older dogs). I know there’s more I’m not thinking of. I’ll post again if/when I think of them.

    Call or email me ANY TIME if you want.

    #43706 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Excellent info losul!!

    Reminds me — Dori – from memory you aren’t using flea/tick meds any longer but if you are still giving heartworm I would stop that (for now at least) and ask for a rabies exemption. If memory serves you aren’t doing rabies any longer but just in case my memory isn’t serving me well. πŸ™‚ You give filtered water too right?

    #43709 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Oh and Cyndi, your comment, what a wonderful boost to my ego!! Made my day!! THANK YOU!!! πŸ™‚

    #43712 Report Abuse

    Cyndi
    Member

    You are very welcome Shawna! πŸ˜‰ I read just about all of your posts, most of them I don’t understand, but I learn a lot from you and your replies to other people. I think I speak for many people on here, we are very lucky to have this site and you and the other very knowledgeable regulars. My dog would still be eating crap if it wasn’t for finding this site, you are one of the bonuses that came along with it, lol! πŸ˜€

    #43713 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    You are a sweetheart!!! :0)

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by  Shawna.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by  Shawna.
    #43722 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Shawna: I’ve been giving them whole house filtered water for years. Hadn’t been giving them HW medication until losul had HW diagnosis and I started in again. Stupid Stupid Me!!!!
    I have read about the issues with HW medication and bladder cancer just yesterday and a few of the sites specifically name Sentinel and that is the brand I’ve used for years. Obviously I’m never ever using HW medication again. Dogs are all on 3 year rabies vaccination. Hannah at almost 15 years old and bladder cancer will never get it again. I have read everything I can and everyone’s posts here and well wishes and kind words and, of course, they all make me cry knowing everyone is so caring and loving. Just breaks my heart. I’m just a weepy mess right now. My husband and close friends keep telling me what a wonderful life Hannah and I have given each other for 15 years and, selfishly, I just don’t want to hear that kind of talk. That means everyone of them is resigning them to the fact that it’s the end for Hannah and I just can’t deal. She’s the only thing that got me out of bed after my son, Matthew, passed and she’s my last tangible connection to him. It’s just too damn hard. I’ve ordered tons of supplements today and read every site that everyone has guided me to, thank you, thank you, thank you everyone. I’m now concerned of having ordered too much and making matters worse my overdosing her on supplements.

    Shawna, I know how crazed and consumed your life is with your family both human and furry, so please let me know when might be a good day and time might work out for you for me to call you. I’ve been feeding all the girls raw for over a year and I think that I want to continue feeding commercial raw as I’ve been doing. Just to let you know Hannah has never had a urinary tract infection in her life, no bloody urine and her urine tests are still clear. They only discovered this because of doing ultra sounds checking her liver because of all four liver levels being so high. They have all come down significantly. Still high of normal but not sky high like before. Okay. I need to breathe right now and attempt to pull my self together because all three dogs are too attuned to my stress. Love to all and from the bottom of my heart I thank you all.

    #43734 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Yes, Dori, please don’t give up. I sure wish I knew about this site 3 years ago when my vet told us that our previous dog “most likely” had cancer. He ran a few blood tests and did an X-ray. Said it would cost too much to do more tests and he was almost 12 so he didn’t think it would make sense. We just gave him steroids and metronidazole for about 6 months before he died. I just can’t help but wonder if I changed his diet or tried some supplements, we could have had him around longer. I just believed the vet. So anyway, do everything you can to help your little girl, so you won’t have any regrets. I’m sure I really didn’t need to tell you that though. Keep smiling because she knows when you’re sad. Best wishes!

    #43741 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Thank you C4C. I’ve been counting on all my DFA friends to help me get through this. I don’t feel quite so alone. Most people think dogs are just dogs. They just don’t get it. I’m trying to keep upbeat around the dogs but it’s so damn hard. Lot of deep breathing to calm myself around them. Again, thank you.

    #43751 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    I think maybe they just don’t know what to say to help but they want to try to make you feel better!! As I noted in my first post Dr. Dressler says tcbc is very treatable.

    You also can’t beat yourself up over choices you’ve made up to this point or from this point forward. Everything we do, we do with our pups best interest in mind.. If you weren’t treating and she got heartworm you would have been kicking yourself for not giving her the preventatives. We all do the best we can with the information we have at the time. You simply can’t do better than that!!!

    I definitely would hold off starting too many supplements (unless made from food) to make sure one doesn’t counter or have a negative reaction with another etc. My dad is a Master Herbalist and I know he would give me some guidance if needed — if some of the supps are herbal that is. The food ones (if therapeutic) I would introduce slowly so as not to initiate to fast of a healing. I also think it is VERY important for you to read Dr. Goldsteins chapter on the healing crisis in his book. Do you have a library close?

    You can reach me any time tomorrow from 10:00 am to 8:00 pm Central time. Tomorrow is house cleaning / laundry day. We may go out for lunch or dinner but otherwise I’ll just be cleaning. Try to get some restful sleep tonight.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by  Shawna.
    #43999 Report Abuse

    losul
    Member

    Dori, thinking about you and Hannah as you take her in for her catheterization today. Will you have definitive results today? Even if it is confirmed, it sounds like you will have caught it very early on.

    Best wishes,
    losul

    #44003 Report Abuse

    Cyndi
    Member

    Just wanted to say I’m thinking about you guys as well. You’ll continue to be in my thoughts and prayers. Let us know how it goes. Hugs to you both! <3

    #44009 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    Also thinking of you!

    #44017 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    You guys are the best. Really! I dropped Hannah off early this morning and I’ve been home pacing. I know I should keep busy but I can’t seem to focus. They told me they’ll call me the moment she’s awake and let me know how she’s doing and that I’ll be able to bring her home late afternoon or possibly a bit later but today for sure. I don’t know whether I’ll get results today. Lord, I sure hope so cause I’m such a wreck. Hannah remains asymptomatic so that makes me feel like losul said, maybe we’ve caught it early. I’m praying it’s not what they’re thinking but scared that it is. I have been told that because of its location surgery is not an option.

    I’ll post as soon as I get any word. Again, thank you all so very much for thinking of us and sending good thoughts and prayers our way. Love you all, Dori

    #44072 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Once again, I wanted to thank everyone that has kept us in their thoughts and prayers.

    We took Hannah to her vet this a.m. where she was supposed to have a “traumatic catherization” of the nodule in her bladder. Before doing so, routinely before anesthetizing, they do a chest x-ray to check the lungs. They found a mass on the lobe of one of her lungs and her vet did not feel comfortable anesthetizing her. She is consulting with her other vet at Georgia Veterinary Specialists, plus the radiologist there and also an oncologist to come up with a plan. They have all said that surgery is not an option. They could possibly, not sure, do an aspiration during an ultra sound by the radiologist of the mass in her lung lobe to find out what it is. Chemo and radiation, of course, are not options for her either due to her age and her liver issues and, of course, there is the issue with her bladder. Neither my husband nor I would put her through any of that anyway. There may or may not be medications to try to slow the progression of either of these issues if they knew what they are. But, they can’t know what the bladder issue is without the catherization which they cannot do without anesthesia and, of course, they cannot do that because of the mass in the lung lobe. It appears through the x-ray that part of the mass in lung lobe is calcified so it may have been there for a long time but they don’t know. I’m hoping that’s a good sign because she doesn’t have any symptoms of lung cancer. As I said, things have gone from bad to dramatically worse. We just want her to be well and do the very best we can for her as she has done for us. In the mean time I will give her whatever supplements, and healthy foods I have always done. I’m reading a lot of books on canine cancer and doing the best I can. I will start cancer supplements one at a time for three days before introducing any others. Meantime I will continue her liver health regime. Of course, for me, I think there’s a lot of wine in my future. I will continue to pretend I’m happy and peppy in from of Hannah, Lola and Katie pretending that life, as we know it, is perfectly normal. Again, thank you all of DFA for your love, guidance and support. Love, Dori

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by  Dori.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by  Dori.
    #44075 Report Abuse

    Bobby dog
    Member

    Sorry for the news. You have the right mind set, keep a smile on your face when you are with your babies. She is in the best hands she could be in, you will make the right choices for her.

    #44077 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    Nobody could do better than you for your baby, Dori. I’m glad Hannah has you!!

    #44078 Report Abuse

    Denise A
    Member

    I’m so sorry, Dori! Here are some websites that I found when Duchess had cancer. I hope they help.

    http://dogcanceracademy.com/?gclid=CIHO1Lmd6a4CFcNa7Aodjm4Mhg

    http://www.dogcancer.net/landing/diet.html

    #44080 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Praying for you and your family during this very difficult time. She is in good hands!

    #79873 Report Abuse

    Maureen H
    Member

    Sorry I am responding to this over a year after it was originally posted, but just found it. My Scottie was diagnosed in Oct. 2014 with TCC during a Purdue TCC Screening Study. She has been on 25 mg of Deramaxx since then and the tumor has shrunk considerably to where it has almost disappeared. I changed her food to home cooked meals of chicken/turkey breast and leafy green vegetables. She also is given milk thistle, SAM-e, probiotics, Omega 3 oil, and vitamins. I also feed her poached eggs, yogurt, and cottage cheese occasionally. I eliminated carbohydrates, no grains. She is doing remarkably well, never showing any signs of the TCC. We were fortunate that Purdue found the tumor early by an ultrasound. We are truly blessed.

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