[zcRiley]

My pups were having diarrhea on and off, then diagnosed for Giardia, then Campylobacter. After a second round of antibiotics, I figured a probiotic in the morning & a some enzymes at night would be helpful (especially with all the hundreds of astounding reviews for correcting runny stools & digestive issues). After a few days, the diarrhea became WORSE. Then I read that the Enterococcus faecium ingredient in probiotics or dog food is bad for dogs and causes urinary tract infections with that bacteria strain detected. I was expecting good results to no results but certainly not turning the stools into a sliding oatmeal texture. Side note: my pups are happy, strong & play hard with no signs of pain or illness otherwise. Does anyone know why this might be happening?

[Case]

What are you feeding? What brand are your supplements?

I’ve had similar issues and just started probiotucs/enzymes 3 days ago.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Zolicylus-

Unfortunately, I’ve had the same issues. My pups went through four or five treatments for giardia and then coccidia. First of all, are you sure they are clear of the giardia? Sometimes it is very tough to rid of. Next, you will have to be patient because the parasites and remedies can be tough on their intestines. It has taken almost 9 months to get consistent stools. I have used several supplements in addition to probiotics and enzymes. On dogaware.com, there are several ideas to help with these issues. I often used remedies that were suggested for leaky gut or IBS. When first starting a supplement, such as a probiotic, make sure to start slow. Only give half or a quarter of the recommended amount and build up to make sure it doesn’t cause upset. I think slippery elm and L-Glutamine are beneficial. I’ve used Gastriplex, Vetri-Pro BD, HK’s Perfect Form, Friutables Digestive supplement, Seacure and Phytomucil. Most of them contain a probiotic or enzyme with some diarrhea meds also. I am definitely not in the veterinarian field, so these are just suggestions from a fellow frustrated dog owner. Please check with your vet if you have any concerns. My former vet, who moved, actually recommended the Phytomucil, probiotics and enzymes. Good luck. I know it’s frustrating. And like Case, I’m curious about what you are currently feeding and using.

[zcRiley]

Thanks, guys. Sorry I wasn’t more specific. I have two 1 yr 2 mo old AmStaff mixes. They’ve been great on Orijen Dry Puppy Food (adding NutraMax Lab’s Cosequin DS for glucosamine much later). I used to mix in Horizon, Merricks or Acana for some zing; that was until I started doing major research on ingredients/hi end fillers, recalls etc. The Giardia & Campi was diagnosed with only 1 of my pups (the one that always had a digestive issue). At that point, I started mixing in Orijen 6 Fish with a crumble of Dr Foster & Smith’s Omega 3 chews. After the Giardia was taken care of, his behavior went down the tubes, I cried during that time thinking was it me, was it his brother, is he dying of something? After $600 doing the full bloodwork panel, fecal float, fecal ELISA & the fecal culture, it was the culture that found the Campi bacteria. 2 shots later & a slew of antibiotics per dog, it was time to add some “help” to their tummies. I got the Purina Veterinary Diets FortiFlora (not knowing that animal digest & Enteroccoccus faecium was bad) & Nzymes (which has soy sprouts). I stopped immediately after four days of small doses/horrifying results, thus initiating the deeper ingredient research I should have done before. I’m now waiting for my new order of Nusentia’s Probiotic Miracle & Enzyme Miracle. During this wait, the pups are switched to Nature’s Balance Synergy Dry Dog Food (has prebiotic & more fiber). AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE ADDED & no treats. The rice & boiled chicken routine doesn’t sit well with them either. I DO add tons of kisses & hugs as to how sorry I am for making them worse.

[Case]

I don’t claim to be well read or experienced with probiotics, but I wasn’t aware that E. Faecium was not recommended. Doesn’t Orijen spray their kibble with it?

[zcRiley]

You’re absolutely correct, Case, EF is in Orijen (hence my temporary switch to Synergy). Perhaps not much and the strains are probably dead. However, the wrong strains used or overkill can cause various diseases or urinary tract infections. I guess my dogs are different considering thousands of people are shoveling that daily packet of bacteria down their pets’ throats & swear by it. Your dog is beautiful BTW. I want to put up a pic of Zoli & Cylus but I can’t seem to find that option in my settings.

Anyway, thank you crazy4cats for your suggestions. I wrote it all down!

[crazy4cats]

I’m so sorry to hear what you are going through. I remember how stressful it is. I actually had a couple of anxiety attacks when I couldn’t seem to get my dogs better. And you are right, my (previous) vet also recommended Forti Flora. It actually worked pretty well for my pups. But, after looking at the ingredients and reading about it, I discontinued. EF is in many, many dog foods. And also in a lot of probiotics for dogs. There was another poster a while back that made some negative posts about EF as well. It didn’t seem to cause my dogs harm, but obviously it must to some. I certainly hope you can get rid of the bacteria it has caused and get your doggy better! Good luck!

[Nancy C]

I hear you. And sympathize! Zolli, I do not remember you being in any of the posts when I had HUGE gastro troubles with my GSD who came to me in PERFECT SHAPE and HEALTH.Was delivered in Jan age 16 mos. I decided to switch him to ORIGEN from TOW. due to recalls. (I had told the trainer from whom we bought him that I wanted him on TOW). At 50/50 Loose stools, diarrhea. so switched to ACANA and same thing at 50/50. A mystery. Both are great foods but not for him. After the ACANA he had so much diarrhea the vet had to treat him w Metronidazole and that (poisonous) HILLS Rx WD Formula). He at that from March til May. Lots of troubles. And there were no parasites. He lost from 70 pounds to 63 pounds! In 6 to 8 weeks! He was on Purina Pro Select Sensitive Stom for a month “to let the digestive tract calm down” (vet’s suggestion) the month of MAY. But I wanted him OFF of that too.

OKAY — He is now back up in New Hampshire getting more training. I am in NC. The trainer, who is beyond wonderful, and very knowledgable is transitioning him to DR TIMS PERSUIT and he reports so far so good. I have had numerous email dialogs with Dr. Tim and his wife MARY — they are wonderful too. I think this food is going to be great for him and my fingers are still crossed. In looking at Dr Tims ingredients it appears to me that there is nothing in there but the basics/ essentials. That’s it. I commented on that to him and he affirmed with a big “yes.” My own thought is that the more ingredients the more chance of trouble.

Good luck. You are trying hard and doing your best. Your pups know that.

[Nancy C]

OH — one last thing…. I sent my dog up there to New Hampshire with Vetri Science Probiotics and Dr. Mercola Digestive Enzymes. I wrote Dr TIm about adding them. Interestingly he said No– Add nothing for now. And said to report back to him in 30 days. I think he puts probiotics in his food. And maybe enzymes. I’ve studied foods so much my brain is clogged… but I think his food is very good. He has formulated it for his own sled dog pack – so his own skin is in the food. That’s a good thing I think.

[Case]

Thank you zolicyclus! She’s an APBT down from the Watchdog line.

The probiotic/enzyme combo that I’m using contains 10 million CFU of L. Casei, B. Thermophilium, E. Faecium, & 375 million CFU of S. Boulardii. I’m also using Orijen, so I’ll have to do some research this week.

You have to register your e-mail address at gravatar.com to upload a pic for an avatar. It’s fast and easy. We’d love to see your dogs.

[zcRiley]

UPDATE: The pups have been strictly on Natural Balance Synergy Dry for only 2 days (while still taking their antibiotic for campi bacteria). And wouldn’t you know, their stools became perfect the next day. For the 1st time in a very long time. I’m kinda in shock as I stare at what I eliminated all at the same time: the 2 types of Orijen, the omega supplements, the calming chew, the Cosequin DS, the antioxidants, probiotics & enzymes, all the treats. I guess I have to start adding things back into their diet one at a time…..

Nancy C: Dr. Tim’s Pursuit sounds great, crossing my fingers for you!

Case: Thanks for the Orijen super sleuthing. All the fish they use being year round available, that’s interesting…. anyway, just tossed my bag of Orijen 6 Fish out the window. It started smelling funny.

[crazy4cats]

Yippee! I wish you continued success. Your dog is in good hands.

[InkedMarie]

NancyC: I’m nosey: where in NH is your dog? I’m in NH so im wondering. I remember a trainer I heard of, can’t recall his name or name of the place but I’d probably recognize it.

[Debbie L]

In reading about some of the problems with the loose stools in the dogs, here is a simple treatment that may work. I have not used this on dogs myself, but have on calves and goats and within 2 or 3 days their stools were normal again.

Boil some white rice a few minutes, strain the water from that, and when the rice water cools give to the dog.

I know of course calves and goats are different from dogs, but would be worth a try when nothing else is available and something is needed in a hurry to prevent dehydration.

[Cindy L]

OMG! I am so glad I ran across this! I have a 7 months old Lab puppy I have been having issues with since I got him at 8 weeks old! Rushed to Vet the day after bringing home and had a UTI. First food I put him on was Wellness Core Puppy, 10 day slow transfer and within two weeks massive green slime and stunk to high heaven. Went to Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit (old formula) and better but still not good. Both have Enterococcus Faecium in them!!! Went to Annamaet and no green slime but still loose. Nature’s Variety seems to have taken this out of the new formula’s so I think there is something they found out too! Took my puppy in to be fixed and TG I had them run bloodwork and urine check and he now is showing signs of early kidney disease and had another UTI! Vet is hoping he out grows this but wants me to go with an under 30 protein, low Phosphorus, low ash, low magnesium, low eggs, grainfree, NO Probiotics dog food for now. The only one I can find is Zignature grainfree Duck which I will be getting this week. The other one I like is Horizon Pulsar Fish which has very few Probiotics and NO Enterococcus Faecium in it plus I can go back to Nature’s Variety Instinct LID Duck if I make sure it’s the new formula…thoughts anybody?

[WALTER M C]

Try giving ,libbys 100% pure pumpkin pura,1or 2 table spoons a day in their food.

That will stop the problem of runs,I don’t give my four dogs vit or probiotic,I just feed
them, back to basic dry food,and healthy treats,thank God no problems,and they are all happy campers.

walt123.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by WALTER M C.

[S G]

Panacur will get the giardia or protozoa first round and then a follow up round to get any repopulating ones and much safer than antibiotics which don’t kill the protozoa they just strip the gut and make things worse. As far as a quick solution that seems to work for diarrhea for every dog is SLIPPERY ELM, 1/4 capsule for 20pounds, get one that is good guaranteed brand like Solary. Mix with food to make sure stool get firm. This is the best quickest solution but it doesn’t kill the protozoa so you still need to use Panacur. As far as a great kibble with a probiotic that would be Acana SINGLES (meaning one protein). And yes miracle probiotic is great but don’t follow the directions DOUBLE/TRIPLE it while treating the dog for diarrhea and protozoa.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by S G.

[Janet H]

Wow! Reading this post brings back memories of my fbees. I sympathize with all of you as I went through the same issues with my pups. I just thought I’d like to add my experience, what I did to help my dogs. I hope the following experience helps, as it worked on my dogs now grown.
My dogs too went through all of that as puppies. One of the pups who is the daughter of the older dog has a sensitive system. Please note this pup was, unfortunately, inter-related with the mother and father
Long story short after antibiotic treatments, it worked for both of them! YEA!!! I was feeding them Purina, and the sensitive was upchucking her food. Changed food to salmon, pea, carrots, no grains. It worked, They still shed a lot but happies. Hope this helps. PS the brand’s name is Wild and Free, Salmon and pea formula.

[Author]

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