[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi brianb22 –

It’s great that you’re considering switching to a rotational diet – providing a wide variety of quality species-appropriate foods is the best thing we can do for our pets.

I currently feed a homemade raw diet with different proteins, different supplements and different fruits/vegetables at each meal. When I was feeding kibble, however, I switched to a new brand with a new protein source at the end of every bag (about every 3 weeks for my 110 lb. male bloodhound) – all the while adding a different canned food toppers daily. When you first begin a rotation diet you may find that it will be necessary to slowly transition between brands (because your dogs are used to eating the same thing daily), but once you do it for awhile and your dogs’ guts strengthen you should be able to switch brands with no transition.

Any of the 4 or 5 star foods would be good options to use in your rotation – which foods you choose will really depend on your budget. I used dry foods that were grain-free and had at least 30% protein, some of my favorites were: Orijen, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Acana. I picked canned foods that were grain-free, some of my favorites were: Nature’s Logic, Tripett, ZiwiPeak and Addiction.

I’d also recommend adding some fresh foods to your dogs’ meals occasionally. Some healthy fresh foods: plain yogurt or kefir (high in quality animal-based protein and probiotics for a healthy gut), tinned sardines or mackerel (high in protein and omega 3’s), eggs (high in quality protein and omega 3’s), lean leftover meat (high in quality protein) and steamed low glycemic veggies (high in antioxidants).

Good luck!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Srmeadow –

Does your dog currently have stuvites or have they been dissolved? Does your dog currently have a urinary tract infection? Stuvites only require treatment if the dog has a UTI and having stuvites does not require being on a prescription food or low protein diet for life.

—————————————————————

From Merck’s Veterinary Manual:

“Struvite crystals are commonly observed in canine and feline urine. Struvite crystalluria in dogs is not a problem unless there is a concurrent bacterial urinary tract infection with a urease-producing microbe. Without an infection, struvite crystals in dogs will not be associated with struvite urolith formation.”

———————————————————————

An article on Struvites written by CJ Puotinen and Mary Straus published in Whole Dog Journal states:

“Struvite crystals do not require a change in diet. Because struvite crystals do not pose a problem unless the dog has a urinary tract infection, there is no required treatment for crystals, including dietary changes. If the dog does have a urinary tract infection, a prescription dog food will not cure it.”

“If your veterinarian finds struvite crystals in the urine and suggests a diet change, you’d be well advised to find a new vet. You have to wonder how many other things he or she is misinformed about. It isn’t just a case of not keeping up with newer research; this recommendation is just plain wrong.”

“Dogs prone to forming struvite stones should not be kept on a special diet for life. Struvites almost always form because of infections, for which dogs with a history of stones should be closely monitored and properly treated. No long-term dietary change is required, nor will a special diet prevent the formation of infection-induced struvites. However, short-term changes may help speed the dissolution of stones.”

“Low-protein diets do not prevent stone formation. A low-protein diet can speed the dissolution of struvite stones — when accompanied by appropriate antibiotic treatment — but it is not necessary for the prevention of struvite formation in dogs who are prone to this problem. For almost all dogs, controlling infections will prevent more stones from forming.”

———————————————————–

To prevent the re-occurrence of struvites it’s recommended to do the following:

-Closely monitor your dog’s urinary pH to detect UTIs (dogs should have a pH of between 5.5 and 7.0).

-Supplement with cranberry capsules. Compounds found in cranberries help to prevent bacteria from attaching to the tissue that lines the bladder and urinary tract.

-Supplement with probiotics. Probiotics are beneficial bacteria. A healthy population of beneficial bacteria in the dog’s system will help to combat any unhealthy bacteria (such as the bacteria that causes UTIs).

-Vitamin C is often recommended for dogs prone to UTIs due to its antiiinflammatory properties.

-Uva Ursi is an herb often used to treat UTIs due to its anti-bacteria properties. It should only be used intermittently for short periods of time.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi acarnes –

My suggestion would be to pick out a high quality 4 or 5 star food and add a supplemental source of fiber rather than limiting your options to high fiber foods only. Most health food stores sell fiber supplements with ingredients such as psyllium, pectin, bran, etc. Talk to your vet about how much supplemental fiber you should be giving your dog per day.

[epiphone324]

Have you looked into the primal grinds or mixes? They are less expensive, still five star and great for supplementation. I dont really know if you can get such a great product from a homemade raw. The primal has quite a few quality ingredients I would have a really hard time gathering. I work in a pet store and primal is one of the things I recommend the most. I’ve seen great results with my pets and with customer’s pets.

[Dustin-R]

Hello All,
I just found this site. It has a great wealth if information. I still am wondering about food for my 12 week Rottweiler. The breeder was feeding Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy , and I have continued feeding this since I picked him up at 8 weeks. I was wondering what would be recommended as a better food for him? It is stated as 36% protein, 16% fat, 6% max crude fiber, 10% moisture max, 1% calcium max , .9% phosphorus, .1% DHA, .9% omega 3 fatty acids. 3% omega 6 fatty acids. I have a TSC, PETCO, and Petsmart that are local. I would prefer local as to online. I would buy online if that was my only means to get what I needed for Him. I would also like to know what would be recommended when he is older.
Thanks
Dustin R

Ingredients:
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Tapioca Starch,Peas,Tomato Pomace (source of Lycopene),Dried Egg, Natural Chicken Flavor, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Fish Oil (source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Potatoes, Flaxseed (source of Omega 3 and 6 Fatty Acids),Alfalfa Meal, Potato Starch, Whole Carrots,Whole Sweet Potatoes, Blueberries, Cranberries, Barley Grass,Dried Parsley,Dried Kelp,Taurine,Yucca Schidigera Extract,L-Carnitine, L-Lysine,Turmeric,Oil of Rosemary, Beta Carotene,Vitamin A Supplement,Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1),Riboflavin (Vitamin B2),Niacin (Vitamin B3),d-Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6),Biotin (Vitamin B7),Folic Acid (Vitamin B9),Vitamin B12 Supplement,Calcium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C),Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement,Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate,Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate,Choline Chloride,Sodium Selenite,Calcium Iodate,Salt,Caramel,Potassium Chloride,Dried Yeast (source of Saccharomyces cerevisiae), Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product,Dried Bacillus subtilis fermentation product,Dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product

[Mom2Cavs]

I’ve tried many probiotic supplements for my dogs, including Mercola which I thought worked fine.
Recently, I used Micro Flora + from Herbsmith and loved it! Now, however, I’m not using a probiotic for them because they are doing great without one. I admit I have switched them back to Natural Balance’s limited ingredient kibble. Right now, they are eating the Swt. Pot. & Fish. I’ve been topping it with Merrick, NB, TOTW, 4Health, Blue Stews, Wellness Stews and all are doing the best they have done in years. Stools great, breath great, coats great, appetites great and all without any supplements. I’m just flabbergasted! I admit I boycotted NB (because of Diamond) and I still don’t like the fact that they use them :(, but I have to say this food is working so well. Laverne, who is my worst in the stool, allergy/intolerance dept. is doing the best she’s done since I’ve had her. Twelve year old Lucy is acting even more young, Hazel’s coat is so shiny. I’m very pleased! But, back on topic….if I were to use a probiotic again I would go with Herbsmith’s Micro Flora +.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Proviable looks a lot better than Forti Flora – it has 7 strains of probiotics which is a decent amount. The company that makes Proviable, Nutramax Labs, is also a pretty reputable company. If you want to go with a product that your vet approves of, I’d go with that. I’ve never used the Mercola supplement – I prefer my dogs to get their probiotics from natural sources such as raw green tripe, kefir and yogurt – but I would trust any product Dr. Becker put her name on and I know several of the “regulars” on this site have used it with good results.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi intheclouds –

I would look for a 4 or 5 star grain-free food with a single protein source and supplement his diet with a high quality multi-strain probiotic supplement and digestive enzymes. There are many limited ingredient grain-free foods such as Nature’s Variety Limited Ingredient Diets, The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s, Addiction, etc.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ella, I agree with Sandy. Homemade raw – while more time consuming – is so much cheaper than commercial raw. There are some great books out there with balanced recipes – “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is my favorite and Dr. Becker also has a great book out called “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats.” I have three bloodhounds and it would cost me over $1,000 per month to feed most commercial raw foods – I’m spending around $400 a month to feed all three homemade raw (that’s including supplements and everything). I order most of my meat from a wholesale supplier for less than $1 per pound and other meats I order from Hare Today (reasonable prices and reasonable shipping), I buy my supplements from Swanson’s (very reasonably priced quality supplements). I have my recipes posted on the recommended menus thread if you want to check out the types of meats/supplements I feed. The other benefit to homemade raw is that you’re in complete control of quality. If you’re not comfortable making your own food I’d say that the cheapest commercial raw brands would be Answer’s, Bravo Balance, HPP or K9 Kraving.

[pugmomsandy]

That’s carnivorefeed-supplier. Have you thought about making homemade raw? There are recipe books you can buy and it ends up being alot cheaper. You can also supplement his diet with 20% of unbalanced food like giving chicken wings/necks/backs/gizzards/heart, etc.

[theBCnut]

And regardless of what you decide to feed, you may want to put your dog on a digestive supplement for a while, one with enzymes and probiotics, to help give her system time to recover and rest.

[Cyndi]

HDM, or anyone that can answer this, how much pumpkin and how many of these probiotic supplement capsules do I want to give Bailey & how often? She weighs 50lbs.

[Hound Dog Mom]

It would probably be best to stick with chicken at this point. I doubt the sardines had anything to do with it – but if that was her first time eating sardines, it could be possible.

I’ve actually never been in a GNC, but I’m sure they’d have probiotic supplements. You want to look for a supplement with as many strains as possible. Most of the higher quality probiotic supplements have at least 8 strains.

Good luck! I hope this helps you can figure out what’s going on with her.

[Cyndi]

Thanks for replying HDM. Bailey has been acting fine today. I gave her a few more scoops of yogurt late this morning, but that’s it. When I started her on the raw chicken on Sunday, I gave her 2 chicken thighs, with the skin removed and 2 chicken legs with the skin. She had the same thing on Monday for dinner and last night’s dinner was a leg quarter with most of the skin removed. She has been doing well on the Fresh Pet. I’ve had her on that for a little over a month.

So, when I start mixing the lean boneless raw meat with the fresh pet, should it be chicken or beef? I have, over the last few days, given her a couple sardines mixed with her Fresh Pet, do you think that could have anything to do with it?

Ok, last question, I am going to go after work and buy the canned pumpkin, but what kind of probiotic supplement should I buy? I have GNC (General Nutrition Centers) near me, would they have it?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Runny poop and vomiting, that’s not good. Occasionally when my dogs eat dense bones they’ll throw up some bone fragments, usually about 8 hours after they eat. I’ve never had this occur with poultry bones though – just heavier bones like marrow bones and knuckle bones (why I no longer feed recreational bones). Are you leaving the skin on your chicken legs? The diarrhea could be from high fat content – the first few times my dogs had raw lamb (very fatty) they had some loose stools. Was she fine with the Fresh Pet? It may be a good idea to put her back on Fresh Pet entirely with pumpkin and a good probiotic supplement to get her digestive system back in order. After everything has been firmed up and there’s been no vomiting for at least a few days I’d mix a small amount of lean boneless raw meat with the Fresh Pet. If she’s tolerating this add a bit more – do this over the course of a week or so. If she continues to tolerate small amounts of boneless lean raw meat try giving her a raw meaty bone again but be sure to remove the skin. All dogs are different and some need a more gradual transition than others. My dogs have iron stomachs and can eat anything, I’ve never done a transition, but some dogs are very sensitive to even the most minor changes in their diet.

[shelties mom]

HDM,
Is raw grass-fed goat milk a good replacement for probiotic supplement? Your recipe states whole milk kefir or raw goat milk, I’ve never bought or made kefir but will learn how to make it. Another question I have is how often should I feed chicken feet to my small 15 lb dogs? I was a little scared after reading what Nectarmom experienced due to high fat. I was feeding 3 times a week and reduced to 2 times and alternate with chicken and duck necks. Should I be concerned with the high fat in chicken feet? They are pasture raised. I usually feed RMB with organs and meat, not just RMB.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I’ve always heard that dogs with acid reflux should eat 3 – 4 small meals per day, rather than one or two larger meals and that the food should be low in fiber. Wet foods (canned, dehydrated, raw, etc.) are preferable to dry for dogs with acid reflux – if you feed dry wet it prior to feeding. I’ve also heard that supplementation with probiotics, digestive enzymes and unfiltered apple cider vinegar can help.

[Hound Dog Mom]

When I fed THK I used Zeal, Love, Embark and Thrive. As for canned – the only human-grade canned food is Weruva. My favorite canned foods are ZiwiPeak, Addiction, Nature’s Logic, Merrick and Nature’s Variety Instinct. I think mixing THK and canned might be a good idea – that’s what I used to feed my dogs before I switched to raw. She’ll be getting the bulk/fiber from the THK so that might help her poop but the addition of canned will boost the protein levels. Supplement with some enzymes and it will be nearly as good as a raw diet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi boxermim2013 –

I can relate to you here. One of my girls, Gertie (the dog in my avatar) is extremely difficult to keep weight on. She was so scrawny as a pup I had tests run too and they came back clear. The vet told me once she was spayed she’d put some weight on, but she was spayed 2 years ago and keeping weight on her is still a struggle. With her, as long as her hip bones aren’t protruding I feel I’m doing good!

I wasn’t able to get her over 60 lbs. until I switched her to a high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate raw diet. I make her food and I generally keep protein between 45% and 55%, fat between 30% and 40% and carbs less than 20%. I’ve now got her holding steady at 68 lbs. – given her height she should be much heavier, but at least she doesn’t look emaciated any more. I also give her lots of treats between meals, I mostly feed balanced foods as treats so I can feed her more without throwing off her diet – i.e. freeze-dried raw medallions, frozen kongs layered with grain-free kibble and canned pumpkin, ziwi peak food for training treats and (prior to the recent recall) I was using EVO’s Wild Craving biscuits which conform to AAFCO nutrient profiles for balanced foods.

Some other options – Abady makes a very calorie-dense granular food – it has around 800 calories per cup (nearly double the calories of Blue Buffalo). I’ve used Abady and before and was pleased. I also know people that have put weight on their dogs with satin balls – you can look up recipes online – they usually include fatty hamburger, eggs, oil, molasses, etc. You could add a balanced omega 3-6-9 and/or coconut oil to his food for a fat/calorie boost. You could try supplementing with digestive enzymes to ensure he’s digesting everything he does eat. If you want to stick with kibble, I’d also recommend at least picking a more calorie-dense formula (>500 kcal. per cup). Some calorie-dense options include – Canine Caviar Grain-Free Puppy (636 kcal. per cup), Dr. Tim’s Momentum (588 kcal. per cup), NutriSource Super Performance (529 kcal. per cup), Timberwolf Organics (I believe all the grain-free formulas are over 500 kcal. per cup).

Good luck!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[pugmomsandy]

jpminnix,
My vet recommended vitamin C daily and I also give d-mannose/cranberry supplement.

[pugmomsandy]

They’re probably still in recovery mode so their gut is still probably not optimal. Are you giving them extra supplements or their normal dose? It hasn’t been that long has it? I thought they might still be on the homemade rice and turkey.

[theBCnut]

I can’t advise you on a canned food, but consider soaking the kibble so that you can mash it with a fork or throwing it in a blender. That way his digestive enzymes can get to more surfaces to work on it. And for a few weeks, you might want to get a digestive supplement from the healthfood store, you want one that has enzymes and probiotics. Some dogs just need the extra help when their system is upset, some dogs need it for life. If it turns out yours needs it longer, order from Swansons, they have good ones at a good price.

[gigiandcole]

One of my dogs has a reaction to grains. I did not realize Dinovite contains grains. She got really sick within 3 weeks of consuming the supplement. It took me awhile to figure out what was causing it. If you are feeding your dogs “grain free” foods, do not use Dinovite.

[soho]

Hi ashylynn

Natures Variety Instinct line of foods is what I would recommend from Natures Variety.

If you are going to feed dry food I consider Orijen and Wysong Epigen 90 to be top of the line kibbles.

You could also supplement whatever dry food you feed with up to 20% fresh, lightly cooked meats. More than 20% would unbalance the vitamins and minerals in the kibble. For the fresh meat stay within the same meat groups as the kibble you are feeding, ie: add poultry to poultry based kibble, add red meat to red meat based kibble and so on. Eggs are a great protein and you can add a little to any kibble.

Whenever you change or add something new to your dog’s food remember to start slow. It is much better to be overly cautious when introducing new things than to try to undo a bad reaction to the new food or ingredient.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I feed grinds for breakfast because it’s easier to incorporate the vegetables and supplements. For dinner they get RMB’s – usually a pork neck or a chicken back with some hearts, gizzards, eggs, etc. I think as long as at least a few meals a week are RMBs the dog will be getting the dental benefits.

When my dogs get too much bone sometimes their poop is almost a powder – it’s really light colored and they’ll go and it’ll just crumble into a powder. When they get a meal of organs their poop it usually darker than normal, never runny though.

[pugmomsandy]

kcarter137,

The Asian and Mexican supermarkets will also have a selection of organs, feet, and also hearts and gizzards. I buy wild caught sardines from the Mexican supermarket on sale for 1.19/lb. For my small dogs, one 3 oz sardine is a meal but you could use it for a topper too.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_4047600x450_zpsf34c6610.jpg

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_60801024x821_zpsad7d39eb.jpg

[Hound Dog Mom]

Okay I just posted a long response and – naturally – it went right to the spam folder.

I would recommend visiting healthypets.mercola.com – this is the website for holistic veterinarian Dr. Karen Becker. Read the following articles:
1. Vestibular Disease in Dogs: Symptoms and Proper Treatment
2. Ear Infection: Number 1 Reason Dogs Visit the Vet
3. Help Your Dog Overcome These Three Common Dog Allergies
4. Does Your Pet Have Allergies? What You Need to Know and Do
5. How to Manage Your Pet’s Allergies
6. Eating These Foods Can Cause Dog Yeast Infection
(I’d post the direct links, but I think the links are what sent my previous post to the spam folder).

Have you tried any alternative treatments? Often drugs will clear up the symptoms for a time, but they don’t treat the underlying cause so the issues will be recurring. It’s important to make diet and lifestyle changes to permanently eliminate the issue – especially in the case of allergies, yeast infections and chronic ear infections. What is your dog eating? Is he on a high quality probiotic supplement? Antibiotics wipe out gut flora and balance of strong gut flora is necessary to help overcome allergies and keep the immune system strong. BTW – if his allergies are food related an allergy test likely won’t give you accurate results. The only way to properly diagnose a food allergy is through an elimination diet, allergy tests are very inaccurate.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Bernie831 –

Here are some articles on chronic ear infections, vestibular disease and allergies from Dr. Karen Becker that I strongly recommend you read:

<i>Canine Vestibular Disease</i>
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/06/04/canine-vestibular-disease.aspx

<i>Does Your Pet Have Allergies? What You Need to Know and Do</i>
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/07/02/does-your-pet-have-allergies-what-you-need-to-know-and-do.aspx

<i>Ear Infection: Number 1 Reason Dogs Visited the Vet in 2011</i>
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/07/02/top-10-dog-medical-conditions.aspx

<i>Tips For Keeping Your Pet’s Ears Healthy</i>
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/06/25/how-to-care-for-your-pet-s-ears.aspx

<i>Yeast</i>
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/03/eating-these-foods-can-make-your-dog-itch-like-crazy.aspx

You’ve got your dog on a lot of medications. Have you tried any alternative treatments (change in diet, supplementation, etc)? You’ve had your dog on several antibiotics, antihistamines, etc. – often drugs only treat the symptoms and not the underlying cause, so you may find that his problems will be recurring without a change in diet/lifestyle. Also, is he on a quality probiotic supplement? After being on so many various antibiotics this is important – antibiotics will wipe out his gut flora and a healthy gut is key to avoiding allergies and keeping the immune system strong. BTW – what does he eat? Sorry for all the questions.

That’s all I’ve got – I haven’t had any personal experience with these issues (that god). Maybe someone will pop in with some more input.

[Hound Dog Mom]

You can add fruits and veggies if you want – but you don’t have to. If you do, make sure the veggies are cooked and pureed and the fruit is mashed or pureed. Cooking and pureeing helps to break down the cellulose making it easier for the dog to digest as dogs don’t produce cellulase (the enzymes necessary to breakdown cellulose).

Don’t add only organ meat – I suggested hearts and gizzards because they are considered muscle meat and are cheap. Organ meat would be liver, kidneys, spleen, lungs, etc. The only organ meat you’ll probably be able to find at a grocery store would be liver. Liver is fine to feed but feed it in moderation – it’s very nutrient dense and should account for no more than 5% of the diet. You could certainly buy ground meats, whole roasts and such and dice them (although these cuts are a bit more expensive). You could also supplement with a meal of raw meaty bones a few times a week if you aren’t opposed to feeding bones (pork necks, chicken leg quarters, turkey necks, etc.) – RMB’s will provide dental benefits as well.

[kcarter137]

I’m just unsure of what raw food to supplement with if I go that route. I know my grocery stores do have a good selection of organ meats. Do I just randomly select a few to use. What about fruits and veggies, should I add some too.

[Hound Dog Mom]

You’re not looking at the right thing. Swanson’s may sell gentle digest but Gental DIgest is not their brand of probiotic and can be purchased elsewhere. Go to SwansonVitamins.com – Swanson’s has two probiotic supplements that I’ve used:

Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS. It’s $14.99 for 60 capsules and in addition to 15 strains of probiotics has FOS (prebiotic) and trace minerals.

Swanson Ultra Soil Based Organisms. It’s $9.99 for 90 capsules, has 4 digestive enzymes, wheat grass, oat grass, barley juice, a vegetable concentrate blend, trace minerals and 15 strains of probiotics.

The more strains of probitoics the better. Different probiotics have different functions and you want a diverse population the gut.

[InkedMarie]

I would also carry NutriSource. Like HDM says, lots of supplements. Quality treats and toys too

[Hound Dog Mom]

Ooh I would love to own my only pet food store. 🙂

What would be important to me is a wide variety of high quality foods and an educated staff. I’d want selection of all types of food – raw, freeze-dried, dehydrated, kibble, canned. I’d also want an extensive natural supplement section.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you’re on a budget and are just using raw to supplement a balanced kibble it’d be much cheaper to just add fresh meat at a rate of 20% or less of the total meal. Freeze-dried foods are very expensive. My grocery store almost always has beef heart, beef liver, chicken hearts, chicken gizzards and chicken livers – all of these items are very reasonably priced and could boost the protein of the kibble and provide your dogs with some of the benefits of a raw diet without the hefty price tag. If freeze-dried is the route you want to go and are open to switching foods – all of Nature’s Variety’s foods are coated in freeze-dried raw and they have a new food called “Raw Boost” with chunks of freeze-dried raw, Great Life is coated in freeze-dried raw and Wysong has two kibbles (Optimal Performance and Nurture) that contain chunks of freeze-dried raw. It may be cheaper to buy a kibble with the freeze-dried raw already incorporated rather than supplementing separately.

[Hound Dog Mom]

When it comes to fish oil and coconut oil you can’t really say one is better than the other because they both contain different types of fat. I use both and would recommend using both.

Fish oil is rich in omega 3’s in the form of docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA). Omega 3’s are an essential fatty acid for dogs and it’s important they dogs obtain at least a portion of their omega 3’s from animal sources (fish, fish oil, eggs) as omega 3’s derived from animal sources contain the usable long chain form of omega 3s (EPA and DHA). There are many plant sources of omega 3 (such as flax) but omega 3 fatty acids derived from plant sources (algae being the exception) are in the short chain form of alpha linolenic acid (ALA). ALA must be converted to EPA and DHA to be utilized and dogs are very inefficient at making this conversion – their ability to convert short chain omega 3s to long chain omega 3s continues to decline as they age. Omega 3 fatty acids are anti-inflammatory and thus are beneficial for dogs with arthritis, it’s also speculated that consumption of a diet rich in omega 3’s can help lower the risk of chronic diseases such as heart disease and cancer. The proper balance of omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids in the diet also helps the skin and coat.

Coconut oil consists predominantly of saturated fats, the reason coconut oil doesn’t get the bad rap that some other forms of saturated fat get is because the saturated fats present in coconut oil are in the form of medium-chain triglycerides which are easier to digest than the long chain saturated fatty acids present in foods such as butter. The medium chain triglycerides in coconut oil consist mainly of lauric acid. The lauric acid helps to give coconut oil its natural antibacteral and antifungal properties. Coconut oil is also beneficial to the immune system, for digestion and for the skin and coat.

I give my dogs cod liver oil (Carlson’s brand only) and coconut oil daily. Lately I’ve been adding sardines, oysters and cage-free eggs to their food for their omega 3’s, but when they aren’t getting whole food sources of omega 3 I supplement with sardine or anchovy oil. I use cod liver oil because it’s a rich source of naturally occurring vitamin d and it does contain some omega 3’s in the form of EPA and DHA. Coconut oil mainly for the immune-boosting and anti-bacterial properties and fish/seafood/eggs/fish oil for the EPA and DHA.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[pugmomsandy]

You can supplement their diet with the freeze dried raw food but usually it is alot more expensive per pound unless you can also get that wholesale.

[kcarter137]

I am new to this site and find it so thankful that I found it. Hopefully I won’t sound crazy but here it goes. I have had a really hard time finding food that work for my dogs. Everytime I think I have found a food it or they seem to have problems. They were all on California Natual or Innova and doing great until I changed them in October due to news that P&G bought them.

I have four dogs. Here is the breakdown:
13 year old golden female. Years ago the vet reccomended their Iams fish and potato diet which worked fine but due to budget reasons we switched her to California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato. She did wonderful for many years on that. We tried Taste of the Wild’s fish formula and immeditetly she started itching. Now she is on Tuscan Natural Lamb Formula. She is doing fine with her allergies on it (aka no itching) but after reading reviews I feel like I am feeding her an imcomplete food.
5 year old golden (no problem). Also eating Tuscan Natual Lamb Formula.
2 year old great dane mix (crazy sensitive GI tract). Eating Tuscan Natural Turkey and Chicken.
1 year old 13 lb mix (has major skin issues). She’s eating Orijen Adult – so far the only food that hasn’t triggered her demodex.

Here is the real question. Supplementing their diets with a freeze-dried raw food make since or should I switch their kibble? I am on a budget – but I can get Tuscan Natual at wholesale price which is about $35 a bag. I feed about 11 cups of food daily between all the dogs.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by kcarter137.

[Anonymous]

Fish Oil and Coconut Oil
Who uses what and why? I notice there is fish oil and salmon oil so which is better? Coconut oil is said to regulate the thyroid and help with arthritis but what if the dog is already on thyroid meds and supplemental Cosequin plus? From what I’ve read, fish oil is for the coat but so is coconut oil so should only one be used?

[jazzyems]

Recent struggles with my Boxer/American Bulldog has lead me to a grain free diet along with a Probiotic enzyme supplement for her digestive issues. I can finally breath a sigh of relief as her stool is firm and she’s gaining weight. I was wondering about treats. Does anyone have a great grain free treat that won’t upset her digestive system? Or a recipe for some homemade treats?…Please share.

[pugmomsandy]

You can try a small amount like a teaspoon of local raw honey daily, and/or stinging nettles with quercetin, and a supplement for the immune system, an allergy herbal, coconut oil, and even omega 3 oil (fish oil, krill, sardine, other fish) to help with environmental allergies.

[theBCnut]

Any dog with a sensitive tummy needs to be placed on a digestive supplement with pre/probiotics and digestive enzymes. Sometime with the simple addition of a digestive supplement you can cure a sensitive tummy completely. Swansons has some nice digestive supplements at a great price. NutriSource has a chicken and rice food that is usually easy to transition to, so it should be good for a sensitive tummy. Their other flavors are also usually easy to transition to. Try adding a tablespoon of pure canned pumpkin to every meal until he is completely transitioned too.

[shelties mom]

Betsy,
Thanks for sharing your experience about the Mercola Ubiquinol product, I was also thinking about adding it but wanted to hear what others have to say. I think I will wait, I mainly want it as a preventative supplement and for oral health. I will look at others without the pump.

[DogFoodie]

I bought the Ubiquinol from Mercola. I had been looking at supplements and was shocked when I went to see our TCVM vet and asked what he thought the best heart health supplement would be for my healthy Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and he recommended Ubiquinol for her. The only problem with it was that the pump bottle malfunctioned and I was only able to use it a couple of times before the pump stopped working altogether. I called customer service at Mercola and they said they were having a problem with the Ubiquinol pump bottle and wanted to get the bottle back to send to quality control at the manufacturer. Unfortunately, I have no idea what difference the supplement could’ve made long term as a result; but would definitely try it again.

I have the Mercola krill it what seems like the identical pump bottle and have never had a problem with that at all.

[InkedMarie]

I use the Swansons probiotic. Nice product, nice price. I also use their joint supplement, thanks to HDM

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi wallyworld –

If you’re referring to Swanson’s Soil-Based Organisms probiotic supplement, there is such a small amount of the trace nutrient (225 mg.) that I wouldn’t be concerned – there’s maybe 2 – 3 mg. of each of the trace nutrients. If you’re referring to Dr. STephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS – that contains even less (only 12.5 mg.) which would amount to almost nothing. If you want more detail on the trace nutrient component it’s sold as a separate supplement called “ConcenTrace” – it’s naturally derived from sea water and contains minerals such as lithium, boron, sulfate, etc. (all in very trace amounts).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

Sorry to hear Shadow’s having a bout of pancreatitis. 🙁

As Nectarmom stated, pancreatitis is brought on by fat – it wouldn’t have to do with whether or not the food is raw, although raw diets do tend to be higher in fat than kibble. Some dogs can handle very high levels of fat with no issues (i.e. my dogs) and others are very sensitive to fat. Some breeds are also predisposed to pancreatitis and don’t tolerate high levels of fat in their diet. Rancid fats can also cause pancreatitis – this wouldn’t be an issue with the fat on fresh meat but kibbles can go rancid as can fish oil (if you’re supplementing with fish oil it should be refrigerated and used within a couple months of opening). As Patty stated, raw diets are only required to state a minimum level of fat – often the actual level is much higher. So be careful if you go with pre-made. The best way to determine the true fat level is to look at the calorie content (foods with over 50 calories per oz. are likely higher in fat) and/or ask the company for a batch analysis in which they provide you with an actual nutrient analysis run on a batch of food (this can give you a good idea of what the fat levels are actually in the food but can also be inaccurate given that it’s possible to have great variance between batches). Personally, I think your best bet (if you want to continue with raw) would be to use a pre-mix and add lean meat from the grocery store. Human foods are required to list the actual fat levels (not a minimum) so you know what you’re getting. I’d stick with at least 95% lean and supplement with minimal levels of omega 3’s (he’ll still need EFA’s, but don’t over supplement).

[Hound Dog Mom]

That sounds like a great menu for a large breed puppy! My dogs love Tripett and Grandma Lucy’s. Raw green tripe is naturally rich in probiotics and enzymes however they are destroyed in the canning process, so if you want your pup to have the benefits of probiotics and enzymes it will be necessary to supplement separately.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I wouldn’t consider ubiquinol an essential supplement, but I also wouldn’t worry about oversupplementing by giving it. The concern with oversupplementaion is generally only a huge concern with synthetic vitamins and minerals. Ubiquinol definitely has a lot of benefits although I wouldn’t bank on it eliminating plaque build-up. I’ve heard it promotes dental health, but if brushing and RMBs aren’t doing it I doubt this will. Ubiquinol is the reduced and active form of CoQ10 – fresh meat (especially fish and organ meat) is naturally rich in CoQ10.

[shelties mom]

I have been reading about Ubiquinol supplement for dogs on Mercola’s site, does anyone give this supplement to your dogs? I don’t want to oversupplement but would like to add this if this is an essential supplement. I’m concerned about their dental health, despite brushing them daily, they still get tarter on front teeth and thought this might help? They get poultry necks and feet a few times a week but not hard bones such as marrow or leg bones. There are some black spots on their gums between teeth and been supplementing with Standard Process Bio-Dent, which seems to help reduce the redness. Any ideas?

[spoonyspork]

Oh, my female (the one with the problems with any other food than she currently gets) is much younger than my old boy I’m talking about in this thread. She has her food issues too (mostly that even though we only give her about half of what the bag says to give, she is still FAT) but it’s the old boy I’m trying to get to eat. He won’t touch the kibble now, even mixed with lots of wet food.

I went shopping last night armed with the 4-star-or-better list, and after starring in horror at prices (not to mention noting he’d have to eat at least three cans a day and he has trouble finishing *one* can), I ended up going with something that only has 3.5 stars but I thought he’d eat: Sojos ‘raw’ food. I realize it’s not the *best* (and I’d love to be able to make my own but that’s not really an option), but figure it’s better than him just not eating. I also know it wasn’t good to just go cold-turkey like that but since he won’t touch his kibble and has only been eating the wet food from the vet the last week, it was again better than nothing.

Anyway, as soon as I unsealed the bag he perked up and walked over to me, doing his ‘I’m not actually begging but OMG what is that?!’ thing. I mixed it up and set it on the counter and walked away, and he sat in front of the counter starring for the whole hour until feeding time. He gobbled up half right away, wandered off for a while, then came and ate the other half and licked the mess (which there was quite a lot of — it soaked for way longer than the bag said to and I think it should have gone even longer) off the floor. This whole time the other dog – who is separated off from him during food time as she steals food – was barking like crazy wanting to try it too (usually she just stands and watches) XD

Reading the review on this site, it looks like it might actually be a good option for *both* dogs with a bit of supplementation added? It’s only a little more expensive per serving than TOTW, and might help with the girl’s weight problem and more fat could be added for the old boy.