[Nancy M]

I am finally to the point of making my own dog food. I am. Not one that wants to consider the RAW, although I know it’s the best. I also know this is a serious committment and must be approached with enough knowledge and understanding, in order to preserve the health of my dogs. Frankly, I’m just tired of trying to research and choose from all choices of dog foods out there, trying to make sure they are safe and nutritional. I have a 3 month old Sheltie pup and a year old mini Aussie (about 25 lbs). I would like some recipes that are not extremely complicated, and that I can make up on a weekly basis. I do not have an overage of freezer/refrigerator space, so I have to make just a short supply at a time.

I would very much appreciate recipes or tried and true books on the subject.

Thanks!
Nancy

[crazy4cats]

I have two lab mix dogs and have had the same issue. I have had the best luck with Victor grain free food so far. I also use various supplements that are very helpful. Such as Firm Up and The Perfect Form. Also, when I add either a couple frozen Nature’s variety Instinct raw nuggets or The Honest Kitchen dehydrated as a topper, it also helps. I think it is because of the added fiber that helps firm up the stools.

Please check out http://www.dogaware.com for some very helpful information on loose stools. It has been an extremely valuable resource for me!

Please feel free to write back with any questions or comments.

[theBCnut]

Is there much calcium in antlers? If so then yes. Even raw fed dogs need to have their calcium balanced, especially as puppies, especially large and giant breed puppies.

[theBCnut]

Definitely compare using dry matter. That way you are comparing apple to apples. You can compare a canned food to a kibble to a raw to a dehydrated to a freeze dried if they are all in dry matter.

[Jenny Rellick]

No. Raw diet dogs eat bones every day, and they have just as much calcium. If your puppy is going through the elk antlers fast, costing you a lot of money, you might invest in a moose sntler segment. The large size adds a challenge for the dog to hold onto it (they are heavy.)

[Dog_Obsessed]

Lily also has rope toys that she loves to chew on. She’s not particularly picky though. She likes Nylabones, but it sounds like he wouldn’t like those too much. They can also be choking hazards if the dog bites off large pieces, and the harder ones can break teeth. Lily also loves the Himalayan Dog Chews, a hard, edible chew that softens as the dog chews. They are a bit pricey but they last a really long time.

I know many people on the forums use Raw Meaty Bones for chewing, and they are also supposed to help with teeth cleaning. I don’t use these so I can’t exactly recommend them, but if someone else comes by they can talk about those more in detail.

Also, natural chews like Bully Sticks and Pig Ears can be good for some dogs. In my experience bully sticks have smelled really bad, but they do make low-oder ones. It is important to get them from a reputable, USA made company to avid contamination. Same with the RMBs. Also, with any chew you are giving, always supervise your dog while chewing. Watch for him biting of chokeable sized pieces, and take it away when it is small enough to be a choking hazard.

[robert j]

Dear FreeholdHound, I have never heard of a dog catching a frozen chicken, ground hog, or turkey etc. I always warm my Ambers meat to prey temperature, give it a try, it works a lot better. In addition to her Reel Raw she likes her ground hogs and field mice running away.

Merry Christmas, Robert Lovemyamber

[theBCnut]

Definitely not a hot spot! With a hot spot the skin turns red and hot before the hair falls out, then the skin starts weeping and gets raw, this causes the hair to fall out, so you definitely would have known if it was that. When the weeping dries, it is crusty like a scab.

You could have a couple different things going on here. If Bruno is sensitive to fleas, they can remain itchy for up to 10 days after a single bite, so you don’t have to see a flea for it to have been a flea. And then of course there is the drier winter air. It isn’t at all uncommon for short coated breeds to have dry skin.

[pugmomsandy]

Quality animal-sourced fat is what I would look for in a food. I know someone who feeds quality raw food for a post pancreatic dog. While Schnauzers are prone to pancreatitis, I think “normal” fat is ok. MelissaAndCrew has experience with Schnauzers and they eat a regular fat food, around 14-15% I think but you’d have to check with her. Also, the fat amount listed on the bag (and protein too) are minimum values.

[Douglas E]

I have read this entire thread as well as similar ones. Look, other than broad brush strokes, animal nutrition has been much ignored for the majority of pet-human history. Heck, the same can be said for HUMAN nutrition. Only within the past 40 years has our nutrition become the topic of serious scientific inquiry. This has been a natural development in thought from deeper insights into cellular biology, biochemistry and immunology. The science of human nutrition is quite new.

How then can we expect to understand other species’ specific nutritional needs? We hardly understand the human organism yet in that regard. If human nutritional science is in its’ infancy, canine nutrition is only embryonic. That research it further complicated by gross breed differences, historically poor food quality diets, congenital and/our genetic weaknesses from severely poor breeding, medical thought that simply treats symptoms and a new problem- canine geriatrics.

A dog in the wild would typically have a life expectancy less than half of our pets’. Nutritional deficiency plays a major part in that mortality. And no, an all raw and only carnivorous diet is not what a dog would get in the wild. While dogs are highly adapted to having a majority of the diet be animal proteins, they have a much greater variety. Even from only consuming prey animals, they will eat the contents of those animals’ intestines and stomach(s) which would include “probiotics,” yeasts (naturally occurring intestinal fauna,) and various vagetation such as primitive grains. Those grains would be partially digested, yes, so raw gains would likely be less digestible. Canines would also eat the high fat organ meats, hair, skin and bone. It is important to note that the high need of calcium, as well as other bone minerals, for dogs is well noted these days. It is necessary nutritionally for Canines to occaisionally consume vegetable, or even mineral, matter. Not only must they do so to enable gut function, they must do so for biological need. Not all needs are met by prey. This is why in the absence of adequate herbivorous prey, dogs will suplement by what pet owners would consider pica.

All that being said (now that I have presented myself in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral the Very Model of a Modern Major General, ) the answers are not simple. But the guidelines are.

1. Use common sense, canine nutrition is imperfect at best
2. Do not presume to be an expert, or that human remedy necessarily applies
3. Do not rely on diet to cure medical conditions that may really be microbial or parastic infections, disease or biological defecit aside from nutrition
4. Realize that isolating an immunological response, whether from allergic reaction or not, is a difficult and time consuming process
5. Use keen observation when using any new food source or additive, including veterinarian recommended treatments. Don’t simply go with the flow thinking that treatment course is the fix-it for sure (OK, preaching to the choir I think there…)
6. Each dog is as different biologically as we are. If it does improve health in some, it may not in others or it may actually be detrimental
7. A business, or product, that is intentionally or negligently harmful will not survive. Caveat Emptor
8. etc. etc. etc…

Here’s hoping great health to all you and all your furry families

D

[Naturella]

Dog_Obsessed, he usually stops chewing on it when oils are on it. And it literally looks like clear, healthy skin – is that what hot spots look like? I don’t know much about them. I just looked them up actually, and they look nothing like Bruno has – in fact they look like something Snowy has, on both her sides of the thighs, red, irritated, almost raw, skin, on the fold between the legs and the torso, and hers clear up very well with coconut oil, but her family is not very consistent with it and they come back.

As for foods, we started transitioning today, so it can’t be from that. Other than that, no change in his normal food routine. Until today he was on Back to Basics Open Range with usual THK and BDN toppers, plus fresh food toppers. Today we began introducing Castor & Pollux Ultramix GF with Duck, Turkey, Lamb, and Salmon meals. But the spot was there before, I saw it yesterday actually.

As far as seasonal or environmental allergies, it may be that, not sure. When he had the scrotum spots, I did see one flea on him, and there may have been more, but so far I haven’t seen any on him around the leg spot… But there MAY be some? The oil treatment helped last time, and I will try it again I guess, and if he gets another itchy spot, I will ask a vet.

[Naturella]

Not a Boston Terrier owner, but a small terrier mix owner nonetheless here! 🙂

I think that what you should do is try several different brands and proteins and find out what your furry friend does well on, and then rotate between brands and protein types.

I feed a rotational diet and I am constantly trying new things with my Jack-Rat mix Bruno. Brands that have small-breed (smaller kibble) sizes include Wellness (small/toy breed formulas), Victor, Annamaet GF, Earthborn Holistic GF has been small enough for my boy, Nutrisca too, Castor & Pollux, Holistic Health Extension, Nature’s Variety Instinct, and many more. I have fed most of the above as well as other brands with great success (except for NVI, my boy got sick on the rabbit formula, BUT I would try this food again).

You could also add canned, dehydrated, or freeze-dried to kibble as a topper to spice things up, or as a regular thing. Wet food is better than dry for dogs anyway, so if you can feed just canned, dehydrated, or freeze-dried, go for it! I usually feed Bruno “soups” of kibble, warm water, and canned, dehydrated, or freeze-dried as a topper, or coconut oil, yoghurt/kefir, raw egg, canned sardines, etc.

Good luck and keep us poster or let us know if you have any more questions.

[Akari_32]

I mixed it with a pound of 2% fat ground chicken breast. The mix says to use 15%+ percent fat meats, but as his first time with bulk raw, I chose the lowest fat I could find, and separated it into 3.5 oz portions to feed off for breakfast’s. Just worried that such high fat combined with more raw than he’s used to might upset his tummy. Of course, he has an iron stomach, so I doubt it would, but better safe than sorry! He won’t be getting enough of it to really make any difference with how low fat it is anyways, I don’t think. 1.5 pounds (meat, water and mix) made about 8 breakfasts. The mix itself is very thick, so I think if I ever do this again, I’ll use chuncks of meat in stead of ground, so he can chew the meat and lap up the mix.

[Akari_32]

I’m not looking at just the main ingredients. Yes, I think Brewers rice and corn gluten meal aren’t quality ingredients, but looking at the bigger picture, there’s a good amount of animal protein in the food, and elevated levels of omega, glucosamine and antioxidants that I could not achieve on my own. Patty, you’ve said yourself quality comes second, and using what works for each dog is the priority. I’m not looking for “this food has a couple questionable ingredients, it’s absolute garbarge,” I’m looking for objective replies on if this food does or does not do what it’s supposed to do. I know how to pick quality dog foods, but I’m really just beyond that at this point with Ginger. The poor thing needs something more than I’m doing right now, and I’m grasping for straws at this point.

I can’t afford to spend any more on supliments (and dog food) than I’m already spending, and if I dump anymore glucosamine pills on this dogs 1/2 cup of food, she’s going to think I’m nuts. It’s bitter and she hates it. That said, if there is a commercial, non-prescription food that doesn’t charge out the nose and does what this is supposed to do, by all means, suggest away. I’m looking at $15 a bag without coupons, or including shipping.

Btw, have you two *seen*, say, Hill’s joint food? Now *that* is nasty stuff. Purina looks like it’s made of gold compared to Hill’s. Just saying.

And Aimee, thank you for the link. I wish I knew half of what they were saying! Seems like products like this do actually work, or at least help, though.

Bobby Dog and Aimee, you’re right about rotating. I forget how long it takes to see results with joint supliments lol I hate to keep her one food, but I think minimal switching around is best. Once I find something for her I like, I will have to just keep her on it.

[tecknik]

What some don’t realize is that your dog’s allergies may not be food related. That turned out to be the case for my dog. Here I was trying all different food concoctions, then the useless Dinovite and it turns out my dog has many environmental allergies including Wool, willow, dust mites, mold mites and about 20 other things.
I’ve always had her on a raw diet (Abady) which is helpful and keeps her coat nice and shiny. (less poop as well due to minimal carbs, too) I also add unrefined coconut oil for more nutrients as well as a good dog vitamin.
As for dog treats, I buy $3.99lb london broils or stew beef then grill it medium rare, then cut into bite size pieces. I will buy in bulk and freeze the remaining. It’s a little work but not that much and if you look at the ounces of a bag of good dog treats, you will find that you are paying over $10 a pound! (usually $4 to $5 for a 6oz bag of treats) It’s the best type of treat to give your dog and you know exactly what is in it.
For my dog’s treatment, we first had the allergy testing done. Yes, it is expensive and thank God I have insurance so I get reimbursed. ($500 because dog has to have anesthesia)
Second step was to remove as many of her allergens as possible from the environment. That meant giving up my two brand new wool carpets. :/ Now I clean an extra day a week as well to ensure there is no dust.
Third step was medication to cure her symptoms. She had ear infections, yeast infections and sores from all the scratching. The doctor prescribed a slew of medicines including prednisone which really stopped her scratching. Unfortunately, this can not be used long term because it can be harmful to the liver and other organs.
Fourth step (and this is where we are now) Allergy shots. It started every other day and now we are at once a week. The scratching is down to a minimal and hopefully over time her immune system will work against her allergies and she will be a happy dog for good.

[dakcmumm]

I don’t like Dinovite. Egg shells mixed with rice and bake. That sounds weird. I did place an order with Dinovite but decided to cancel it. Their rep was not very friendly to me. After trying Better In The Raw I decided to give my babies Primal. It is the Psyllium that turns me off. Most or not all of the supplement for raw feeding has psyllium. I myself was bloated with psyllium. It makes me so sick. So, even dogs might be different, I just decided that I do not like psyllium. I rather add sweet potato or pumpkin to facilitate my babies’ pooping business than use psyllium.

Anyway, Sophie and Louis love primal. I am sooooo happy. I do add more raw veggies to their food. Trust your instinct. Only you know what is best for Your Dog. There are many good products out there but each case is different. Trust your instinct.

[Akari_32]

Must be new cat food day! LOL I got around to mixing up that Wild Kitty raw mix tonight. It looks disgusting, but after I had separated it all out into ice cube trays, I let the kitty lick the spoon and he went to town on that thing. Not a single speck left on that spoon LOL The first ingredient in the mix is clam, which is why assume he likes it so much. Is clam associated with hyperthyroid, like fish is?

Stay safe girl!

[Dori]

Dog Obsessed. aquariangt just reminded me of another reason to add to the list of why I don’t use Sojos, the protein is way too low. I feed really pretty high protein being that I feed almost all raw.

Thanks aquariangt. I’d forgotten to mention to Dog Obsessed about the low protein in my response to her as to the reasons I don’t care for Sojos.

[Naturella]

Dog_Obsessed, I see. I stopped worrying about bacteria after I started feeding Bruno RMBs once/week and a raw egg once/week. After he didn’t get sick or die from them, I felt like it wouldn’t be likely for him to get sick or die from a commercial raw/freeze-dried/dehydrated. BUT, we all have different levels of comfort, and it seems like Lily is doing great on kibble, canned, and THK! 🙂

For me, Bruno’s best stool is after commercial raw/RMB day – I TRY to feed him only raw on Sundays, but for sure his Sunday evening meal is only an RMB, whether his breakfast was raw or not. His stool after Sunday nights is usually firm, not smelling almost at all, and is overall good. But he has good stool (firmness-wise) on his other foods too, it is just always so much more smellier than on raw.

[Dog_Obsessed]

@Naturella I am mostly worried about bacteria. I know that they use other methods to sanitize, and that it is unlikely for dogs to get sick from it anyway, but it still worries me. Most raw (or non-raw!) companies have lots of info/bragging about how they make their food, what procedures they take to avoid contamination, etc, but Sojos has almost none on that. Marie and Dori, what is it that bothers you about Sojos? That it doesn’t completely digest?

[Judy M]

all the f[rodducts at Wondercide have neem oil They also have a great bathing bar soap for flea prevention called “Repel” holding a bar of soap to bathe is easier than having to squeeze a bottle when u need 2 hands for bathing. ‘They have a whole line of flea prevention products t that all include neem oil they are quality products recommended (I even list them for sale on my own poet supply website and have them dropshipped, and use them myself, but having to spray repeatedly periodically isnt as easy as giving a Capostar pill or other like Comfortis,m but I won;t give comfortis anymore, now that the holistic vet told me that spinosad (however it is spelled) is toxic, so don’t want to harm my pet, but she chews herself to death in summer if she getsfleas, so I have to be sure and prevent them ans her sensitive pick skin gets all raw with hot spots once she gets a flea and starts chewing at the bite, so its hard to balance. Where to you get the Bug Of Garlic? is there a way to makeit with health food store garlic, I do think the holistic vet said something about garlic being potentially toxic (probably if wrong dose)?? hate those darn fleasl no easy solution…thankfully now that it is cooler, they seem to not be a problem at the moment, and Im in So CAl

[Dori]

I’m with you Marie. I REALLY dislike SoJos. THK is the only dehydrated food that I really really like. I have used others but always go back to THK and keep in rotation. Even a couple of my local pet stores that carry Sojos don’t recommend the food. They’re small stores so they can pretty much try all the food in the store (not the owners so no choice as to what they carry) and they dislike the Sojos.

I’d like to add on the freeze dried and dehydrated foods in general that I have fed, and continue to feed, I have never seen any undigested bits in any of my three girls poop. I check all of their poop every single time. I sometimes wonder if people seeing identifiable bits of ingredients in their dogs poop if the dogs gut is not as healthy as it could be. Could it be that 90 – 95% of my dog’s meals over the past three years are raw causing a healthier gut and, therefore, able to digest pretty much digest everything and anything? I really don’t know. Just a thought I’ve wondered about.

Sorry about all the edits. I really should remember to read through my posts before hitting the submit button.

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.

[Kristin C]

If you mean gizzards then yes it’s ok to feed. I feed mine raw. Are you adding the organs to each meal in small amounts? Or are you feeding 1 or 2 meals per week organs only? Be careful about feeding too much.

[Bobby dog]

pugmomsandy replied on page 1 about Sojo’s being freeze dried, “The meats are freeze dried and the veg/fruit are raw and air-dried.” Maybe only the complete formula adds FD meats? I never fed it so I am not sure. Here’s the DFA review:

/dog-food-reviews/sojos-complete-dog-food/

[Naturella]

@Dog_Obsessed, you may have mentioned elsewhere, but what is it that worries you about raw? I know not everyone is ready to or willing to go that route with their dog, I was just curious.

[Kristin C]

It’s not true raw since it’s cooked to 115 degrees. I have used it and it seems safe but I ended up throwing out most of the bag since there was always chunks in my dog’s poo. At the price, I preferred to be rid of it and move on to something else.

[Dog_Obsessed]

Lily digests THK fine as a topper, so I like the sound of Sojos. I am still concerned about their safety practices because it is raw.

[Dog_Obsessed]

I’m pretty sure Sojos is freeze-dried raw. Freeze-dried and dehydrated are different things but similar.

[Kristin C]

I make my own raw food and store/freeze it in mason jars, the flatter ones (8oz) with regular mouths. This makes my dogs work for their food. And it works for their size so that’s a consideration.

[Kristin C]

I believe Sojos is dehydrated, it’s not raw and does not digest well from my experience.

[Akari_32]

As a member of Purina For Professionals, I was cruising the site out of curiosity and checking out the prices that I can get different foods for, for the giggles. Well, I clicked on the JM and was actually surprised at how good it looks compared to the other VD. Four of the first six ingredients are animal proteins, and it meets the low-fat requirements that Ginger needs, but has that higher protein I like to see.

https://www.purinaforprofessionals.com/canine-jm-joint-mobilityr

She’s always limping around, and has been favoring one her shoulders and been reluctant to get on and off the bed lately (she has doggy stairs). She’s on about 350 mg of glucosamine a day, but it’s not really helping much, and she’s really nasty when she’s in pain. I’m to the point now where if something helps her, I want to use it. This is a pretty decent looking food, and the reviews on it say it does help with their dogs joints.

Since the clinic I was at when I got my membership is closed now, I’m going to email and rep and make sure I can use another clinic’s prescription. She’s cool, so I don’t think it’ll be a problem, seeing as the food is delivered to my door, and not the clinics anyways.

If I’m able to use another vets script, do you guys it would be a good choice? You all know I’m not particularly a Purina fan, but I’m really to the point where I’m grasping at straws to affordably keep this dog pain-free, diarrhea-free, and mobile. She may be 14, but she’s got so much spunk left him her, I just want to do whats right by her. I’m still unsure if I would use just this, or if I would rotate it ever other bag. Still haven’t quite figured out how she does on rotation now that I’ve taken all the canned out of her diet and reduced her fat intake. Thats the next step.

I’m unsure if the shopping part of the site is just for logged-in members or not, so please let me know if that link doesn’t work, and I’ll just copy/paste everything here.

[Jonathan H]

My dog is shedding like crazy… I’m not sure how she still has hair but she doesn’t show any signs of balding or skin irritation.

I’ve switched her to partial raw, made by a local butcher who sources only grass fed and locally raised animals in the tristate area, as well as added some additional fish oil to help with her dandruff. The dandruff is gone now but the shedding remains.

We brush her once per week with a furminator and I use dog baths wipes to help keep her clean between actually baths which I don’t like to do more than once a month.

Has anyone seen Euk causing the shedding? I’ve been thinking about changing her food but the breeder / trainer we purchased her from said he has always fed this with no issues.

Thanks for the feedback

[Z B]

Thanks for the input everyone ! Much appreciated!

USA dog treats – thanks for sharing the feedback from Steve. I had been doing the ABC day once or twice a week, that’s why I had the heart and liver on hand, and I thought Steve recommended that for the ABC day raw meals you could use all heart as the muscle meat ? But since I’m trying to feed raw more than once a week I’ll definitely reduce the Amount of heart and search out other muscle meats. If liver isn’t necessary with the premix I’ll prob forgo that, the dogs aren’t crazy about liver and it kinda grosses me out, too.

Also ordered his books and used some of his recipes for a few batches of Raw meals, but it was a little too much work keeping up with all the necessary ingredients and mixing it all up, etc, since I work full time. So I’ll see how the premix works out. So,far the dogs like it but I’ve been walking them before sunup and after sundown so I haven’t gotten a good inspection of how their poops are reacting.

The cats constipation emergency required a thousand dollar overnite stay at the pet ER, so I’m hesitant to put her back on the raw. I’ve found some good Canned foods that’s she’s doing well on, so will stick to that for now, but thanks for the suggestion to add fiber.

[Susan]

Hi, has ur boy been wormed?? What food is he eating & are his poos sloppy or real hard when there’s blood & what colour is the blood lite or darker red ?? my boy was pooing lite red blood when I first got him, he was 4 years old, it wasn’t every day about every 10 days, sometimes there was a streak of blood on the outside of his poo & the poo was firm, sometimes his poos were sloppy or sometimes had jelly on the poo, vet said Colitis, he’d also have a rumbling, gurgling bowel early hours of the morning then do his jelly poos with blood, I had to stop the raw chicken necks for breakfast & I had to put him on a lower fat diet, in the end vet said IBD.. but ur boy is only 4 months old he still a pup, my boy is 6 years old now…

[USA]

Hi Bri,

It’s good to see you feeding raw twice a week. For most dogs this is a big improvement over ANY kibble!

Heart – I notice the meal you added the liver to was Beef Heart. Even though heart is a muscle, it is a different kind of muscle than the breast or leg or thigh, etc. The heart is a non-striated muscle, while the muscles everyone usually thinks about are all striated muscles.

I like to say that nutrient-wise, heart is about halfway between regular muscle meat (breast thigh, etc) and the much richer organ meats (liver, kidneys, etc). Now that is just an estimate. The point is that heart is richer than breast but not as rich as liver, so it should still be used in moderation (up to 20% of meal).

As others have said, the calcium in the Dinner Mixes is calculated based on meat without bone. So the extra calcium that would come from you adding bones is not needed, and could actually be detrimental!

This is what Steve Brown had to say about adding organs to his Dinner Mixes:

“Thanks for the note.

Yes, it’s okay to add muscle meat and some organ meat, but please don’t
add a lot of liver. Keep the liver to less than 10% of the total meat.
Adding up to 20% hearts is fine.

Steve Brown”

On a side note (cause I’m a dog man), constipation can be pretty common in raw diets ESPECIALLY if they contain bone! Your cat probably could use some fiber added to the Darwins to ease any constipation issues. I use a couple of different types. Psyllium husks are very fiber rich and I add no more than 1 teaspoon per pound of food. Flax, Chia and Hemp seeds are not as rich in fiber as Psyllium, but they are also good for the skin. I add about 1 tablespoon per pound of meat.

Keep up the Good Work!

[zhiba]

Ever since my dog’s allergies became a big factor in his life, we’ve switched to freeze dried and limited ingredient treats (as well as food).

We get treats from Orijen Singles, Stella and Chewy’s Carnivore Crunch, Sojos Simply, Etta Says, Whole Life, PureBites, and Vital Essentials.

Recently I discovered the VE cat food on Chewy. It makes for excellent training treats! They are smaller nibblets than the dog food, with a few additions that I like. Comparison –

Turkey Nibblets (dog)
Ground turkey with bone, turkey heart, turkey liver, herring oil (natural source of vitamin D), mixed tocopherols (natural antioxidant), d-alpha tocopherol (natural vitamin E)

Turkey Nibblets (cat)
Ground turkey with bone; turkey heart; turkey liver; boneless skinless turkey breast; raw organic goat’s milk; raw organic apple cider vinegar; herring oil; mixed tocopherol; d-alpha tocopherol

[Nelson P]

Hi everyone,
It’s the first time I post on this thread but have been learning a lot from reading it (specially from HDM). So, first of all thanks! Now, hopefully you guys don’t mind if I ask for a little more help. I have a 3 months old Golden Retriever. I have been feeding him Royal Canin Golden Retriever Junior (recommended by the vet.) but as you all know, it’s not the best choice. I want to do better. Unfortunately I don’t have the time or money to feed him a proper raw meal. Not now, maybe in the future (who knows). Good Canned is also very expensive (maybe I can add it as a topper sometimes). So I have to stick with kibble. Would like to choose from HDM list but I live in Europe (Portugal) and we don’t have those brands here (stores or online) and buy it from a international online store would also be too expensive for the shipping. I had to look for other brands and try to stick with the guidelines I learn here. As sad as it may look I couldn’t find too many brands to choose from (there are plenty but not that good). Basically I found 2 options: Orijen/Acana large breed puppy (I know it’s borderline with the calcium levels) or Naturea. Naturea is a portuguese brand but they produce there food in a UK factory tucked into a rural area (as they stated in their website). They have the same Biologically Appropriate concept that Champions have. It’s possible none of you ever heard about this brand (I too didn’t know them until yesterday). I don’t know if I can post the website here for you guys to help me analyse their food so I’ll copy/past their Technical Information:

Composition:
Chicken (includes Fresh Deboned Chicken and Chicken Meal), Sweet Potato, Egg Powder,
Chicken Fat, Potato Protein, Lucerne, Linseed, Chicken Gravy, Salmon Oil, Minerals,
Vitamins, Glucosamine, Methylsulfonylmethane, Chondroitin Sulphate, Apple, Carrot,
Tomato, Spinach, Psyllium, Rosehips, Camomile, Burdock Root, Peppermint, Marigold,
Seaweed, Cranberry, Dandelion, Fructooligosaccharides, Aniseed, Fenugreek, Yucca
Schidigera Extract, Thyme, Marjoram, Oregano, Parsley, Sage.

Animal Ingredients (63%):
Chicken Meal (low ash) 31.17%
Fresh Deboned Chicken 13.85%
Egg Powder 8.22%
Chicken Fat 7.36%
Chicken Gravy 1.73%
Salmon Oil 0.86%

Typical Analysis:
Crude Protein 32%
Crude Fat 21%
Crude Fibre 3%
Moisture 8.5%
Carbohydrates 27.5%
Crude Ash 8%
Metabolisable Energy 387 kCal/100g
Calcium 1.21%
Phosphorus 1.04%

Coat, cardio & Joints:
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 3.09%
Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 1.07%
Glucosamine 889 mg/kg
Chondroitin 625 mg/kg
Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) 889 mg/kg

Other Vitamins, Amnio Acids & Minerals:
Vitamin A 25730 IU/kg
Vitamin D3 1730 IU/kg
Vitamin E (as alpha-tocopherol acetate) 231 IU/kg
Vitamin B1 10 mg/kg
Vitamin B2 23 mg/kg
Vitamin B6 10 mg/kg
Vitamin B12 127 mcg/kg
Biotin 323 mcg/kg
Folic acid 1.73 mg/kg
Niacin 35 mg/kg
Choline Chloride 240 mg/kg
Pantothenate 20 mg/kg
Potassium 1.04%
Sodium 0.36%
Chloride 0.63%
Magnesium 0.1%
Zinc (as zinc sulphate monohydrate) 285 mg/kg
Zinc (as chelate of amino acids hydrate) 342 mg/kg
Copper (as cupric sulphate monohydrate) 41 mg/kg
Copper (as cupric chelate of amino acids hydrate) 51 mg/kg
Manganese (as manganous sulphate monohydrate) 112 mg/kg
Iron (as ferrous sulphate monohydrate) 309 mg/kg
Iron (as ferrous chelate of amino acids hydrate) 21 mg/kg
Iodine (as calcium iodate anhydrous) 1.58 mg/kg
Selenium (as sodium selenite) 0.51 mg/kg

Sorry for the long text. I need to decide on a food sooner than later to start the transition. In the future I would like to rotate different brands (If I can find good ones), and add toppers as suggested here. But for now I really have to decide. Origin, Naturea or other world available brand? Can you help me? So afraid to make the wrong choice. Any other advice on dog/puppy health would be great 🙂

P.S. As for the toppers, besides eggs, tinned sardines, plain yogurt, kefir, cottage cheese, and veggies what can I add without throwing off the balance?

[Mik L]

Wow, I didn’t realize this was a police forum. I see we have children logged on here. People are entitled to their opinion and there’s not need for supervision here. Micro manage some where else. My dog loves greenies and his teeth doesn’t have much tartar. When I took him to get his teeth clean the vet said I was doing a good job, thanks greenies…. My vet advises against any bones even raw hide.

[Z B]

Got a bag of SSLL premix last week, finally got around to using it today. I defrosted a beef heart I had in the freezer. Cubed most of it and puréed some of it In my vitamix blender so I could blend the premix powder in with the heart purée. The dogs were delighted and scarfed it down.

Questions:
1) I added a bit of beef liver, because I had some on hand. Is adding liver necessary or recommended when using this premix?
2) What about bonemeal or ground bone,,is it necessary or recommended with this premix ? ( I didn’t use any this time but I can also grind chicken wings in my blender if it is needed).

I feed water packed sardines a couple times a week. Occasionally eggs. Occasionally turmeric and ground flax.

I try to do all raw on weekends. Weekdays are a mix of 4-5 star kibble mixed,with 5 star Canned or sometimes Raw (I have lots of Darwin’s raw cat food leftover….the cat can’t eat it anymore bc of constipation issues, so the dogs have been enjoying it)

I’m not doing RMB at the moment because little dog is a gulper and big dog gave me a scare getting a chicken neck stuck in her throat. It finally went down but spooked me pretty bad. 🙁

[Z B]

Last month there was a great coupon on Groupon for petbrosia. I got a large bag at 50% off I think. So something like a $ 60 20 lb bag of food for $24. My dogs like it. I mix it half and half with raw or 5’star Canned.
I’d use it in rotation, if there are more Groupon coupons with deals like this. I wouldn’t pay full price for it, too expensive.

ETA: just checked Groupon and the deal is still there :). There are options for 3 lb @ $5.99, 10lb @ $13.99, and 20 lb @ $23.99

Shipping wasn’t too much if I remember correctly.

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Z B.

[jakes mom]

Akari, haha…I would love some of those stupid 80 degree Decembers! I will be visiting family near Tampa next Feb. and hope to see some stupid 80s then, too! Thanks for the comment about taking dogs away from the owners for nail trims, blood draws, etc. That was my reasoning, too. Read that somewhere I guess…
I will give Jake a break over the winter and resume his hw meds this spring and hope he has a better experience with his test next year.

[L P]

I have always wanted to raw feed but don’t have the time or resources to do it myself. However lately a frozen raw food brand has been available here in Spain, it is the only one, and I want to feed it to my dog and my cat (who currently eat Orijen kibble).

I need opinion on if this food is appropriate and complete for my pets: I would be adding taurin powder for my cat, as well as completing with raw bones from time to time.

Here is a link to the catalogue (see pages 3 and 4 for food pictures): http://www.dietayum.com/img/cms/catalogo-dieta-yum.pdf

Since it is in spanish, here is a translation of all their menus (I have asked, and the grinded meat includes bones and organs, and all the meat is human grade):

Chicken & cow menu: 60% chicken, 19% cow, 9.9% carrot, 5% beet, 5% turnip, 1% olive oil, 0.001% garlic.

Beef menu: 79% beef, 9.9% carrot, 5% beet, 5% turnip, 1% egg shells, 1% salmon oil, 0.001% garlic.

Salmon menu: 20% salmon, 59% cow, 8.9% carrot, 5% beet, 5% turnip, 1% egg shells, 1% salmon oil, 0.001% garlic.

Turkey menu: 60% turkey, 20% lamb tripe, 9.5% pumpkin, 9.4% apple, 1% olive oil, 0.001% garlic.

Lamb menu: 19% lamb, 60% chicken, 9.9% carrot, 5% beet, 5% turnip, 1% olive oil, 0.001% garlic.

Puppy menu: 40% chicken, 20% green tripe, 15% cow, 5% salmon, 5% beet, 5% carrot, 3.9% sardines, 3% turnip, 1% egg shells, 1% seaweed (spirulina), 1% olive oil, 0.001% garlic.

Thanks in advance for your opinion and help!

[theBCnut]

I use a shallow ladle. It fits right under my JRT just perfect. It does NOT go back in the kitchen drawer for later use in soup.

[Akari_32]

let me know how your guys like raw! I gave Kitty the tail off Bentleys turkey last week, and he loved it. Wasn’t quite sure what to do with it at first, because he’s used to just licking his food up, but once he remembered what his teeth were for, he went to town on that thing lol I think I’m going to suck up the price and buy him some ground chicken for the Wild Kitty sample. It’s like $5 for a pound though! I might just be cheap and get ground pork. He likes country ribs lol

So I got two of the new Saucations on Black Friday for $0.39 cents or whatever they were a can at PetSmart because I had a bogo coupon. I’ll just let the pictures speak for themselves.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/CBC9307F-0C33-45F4-ACDE-E90A8A22A01F_zpsuqskics6.jpg

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/6AB53347-7322-425C-89E0-016ED1D1C627_zps9d8k9hqf.jpg

Why do people think this ok???? Of course, the little turd likes it. But he eats from the garbage can, too, so I’m not sure how much that says LOL

[crazy4cats]

Hi Leslie-
I don’t think that in general kibble is just as nutritious as most dehydrated foods. Annament is a very good one though. That being said, I know that Honest Kitchen is very expensive. I feed my dogs a base kibble and add something to it every meal. They get a few tablespoons of canned with it in the morning. In the afternoon, I rotate between eggs, beef heart, dehydrated, frozen raw patties, and sardines in their kibble. I also feed the See Spot Live Longer dinner mix with lightly cooked burger once a week. So, I guess what I am saying is if you go ahead with the kibble, you can always bump up the nutrition with toppers! From what I’m learning, variety is very healthy for our dogs.

[Dori]

Hi Jake. I keep my dogs on HW (Sentinel Spectrum) year round because I live in Atlanta, Georgia. Weather is unpredictable in what is supposedly the cooler (winter) months. Last week we had a couple of days below freezing, bird baths frozen, all the winter stuff. Last few days has been in the upper 60’s and a couple of days in the low 70’s. To keep my girls safe I keep them on HW meds all year every 30 days. We’ve been in Georgia for the passed 13 years. Before that we lived in the Northeast (NJ, NY, Conn. and Cape Cod). Because the winters were completely predictable and freezing all winter long I did last HW October and nothing again until May. I think you would have to judge what your weather is. If you really have consistent old time winter weather then I guess you could keep him off for the winter months which I would do just to keep some of these chemicals out of his system and give his system a bit of a break. HW test is just the one time of year. Take some really really choice treats with you to the vet that he absolutely would do anything for. Before they come in to take blood work and while they are chit chatting with you you could just get his attention with the pieces of chicken, liver, whatever you want (no actual store bought treats or kibble….that’s not special enough) and just give him little tiny pieces as the entire process goes on. Eventually he should think of it as a good experience as opposed to the nightmarish type experience he had in the Spring. It’s worth the one time experience to keep him off HW for a few months. Just my opinion.

Let me also add that I take my dogs to the vet for a yearly physical and yearly blood work anyway. I’ve done that with every dog (there have been many…I’m 66 years old). If something is going on with them I want to know sooner rather than later. Trying to catch anything serious that may not be outwardly visible and keep track of all their levels and if anything has changed since the year before so they are accustomed to having the bloodwork draw anyway. Through the years I have found that things were going on that I would never have been aware of if not for the blood work. I was then able to start working with nutrition and supplements more geared to the issue.

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.

[theBCnut]

First, you need to know that while your puppy is growing is not a good time to experiment with whether or not you got the diet balanced right, so I always suggest commercial raw meals or using a premix to which you just add the correct amount of boneless meat.

I don’t think there is really and argument about whether or not veggies are necessary. It is known that they are NOT necessary, but that isn’t the same thing as beneficial. Some dogs have constipation issues on a raw diet and veggies add fiber to help with regularity. Veggies also offer different antioxidants that may help if your meat source is not as pure as you could wish. Veggie have micronutrients in them that may be missing from over grazed soil and so missing from meat animals. Adding veggies make up for some of what would be missing if you don’t feed tripe.

Bone, meat, and organs are supposed to be specific amounts of the diet, and you can do that feeding organs a few times a week, but organs are rich and in some dogs cause stomach upset if too much is given at one time.

[Avery M]

Just this monday my boyfriend and I picked up a 10 week old australian shepherd. This is the first dog I’ve been entirely responsible for and I’m definitely consider raw as an option (especially if I can find an affordable way to do it). I’ve read some articles and watched youtube examples of other people’s meal preps. So far what I’ve gathered is that is that I should slowly introduce and then rotate a variety of meats (I was thinking chicken, turkey and beef) as well as adding organs several times a week, and meaty bones daily. I’ve also noticed many people disagree on whether any vegetables are necessary. I have several main questions: Do I need to rotate the kind of animal the organs and bones come from like I do the meat? What, if any, adjustments do I need to make for her given that she’s a puppy? Is their a substitute for the green trife (I’m not sure if that’s what it’s called, I believe it may be stomach of some sort?) like a probiotic or something? I’m not sure where to get that.. If there is anything else I should know or advice to give me that would be great. Thank you.

[Dori]

Sorry Dog Obsessed. Yes, Answers is a commercial raw dog food that is imo one of the best out there but incredibly difficult to find. Very few distributers carry it and there are only two places in the state of Georgia that I have found that will carry it or not give me a hard time ordering it in. One is in Kennesaw where Alek lives and the other is much further away.

[Kelsi P]

You may want to look into a raw diet- many folks with dogs diagnosed with IBD/IBS, chronic colitis, etc., have experienced great results with raw. Your vet may not like it, but many vets are catching on and will recommend it. Try a holistic vet.