[bill c]

Hiya,

I’m abroad (stationed in Singapore). I posted in the regular site but, thought I’d also do it here.

1. What’s the best dry food with 22-26% protein; 8-14% Fat; and 340-360 calories
2. Same question for dehydrated food
3. Same goes for canned food.
I currently feed Honest Kitchen and Acana Grassland but, am confused about the percentages on the packaging.

This is us:

[pugmomsandy]

Wellness Complete Health Senior canned 32/14
Freshpet Select Homestyle tubs 27/18
Wysong Anergen canned 28/12
Wysong Adult Maintenance canned 28/16
Canidae Life Stages Platinum canned 24/18
Avoderm Weight Control Chicken and Rice canned 23/14
Natural Balance LID Chicken and Sweet Potato canned 25/16
Addiction Summer Brushtail dehydrated 23/11
Addiction Kangaroo Feast dehydrated 24/11
Addiction New Zealand Forest Delicacies dehydrated 25/13
Addiction Beef and Zucchini dehydrated 22/11
Addiction Venison and Cranberry dehydrated 25/15
Addiction Fig’licious Venison dehydrated 22/11
Addiction Country Chicken and Apricot dehyrated 24/17
Back to Basics Grain Free dry 27/16
Fromm Gold Reduces Activity dry 26/12
Fromm Gold Large Breed Adult dry 26/13
Pro Pac Ultimates Lamb Meal and Brown Rice dry 24/13
Pro Pac Ultimates Mature Chicken Meal dry 23/13
Pro Pac Ultimates Grain Free Overland Red and Meadow Prime dry 26/13

This article has the explanation and formula to convert foods into dry matter:

/choosing-dog-food/dry-matter-basis/

[pugmomsandy]

If you are more concerned about the amount of fat, there is a list of low fat but with moderate-high protein foods:

/best-dog-foods/suggested-low-fat-dog-food/

[Pat G]

Canine Caviar Special Needs is 8% fat.

[bill c]

Pat, that’s awesome. I didn’t even know about this brand.
Thanks heaps!

[bill c]

Pug, this is great thanks. I’ll have a look this weekend.

[bill c]

Pug, I forgot to mention (just now realized you also sent the list) you went the entire NINE YARDS on this one. That list is perfect. Diggidy-dang-dog! You just made my weekend. That’s an encyclopedia of knowledge that I’m sincerely grateful for. ROCK ON!

[bill c]

One more question:
If Billy Junior is active–you saw the vidz right?–:



would lowfat be okay for him? I know miniature Schnauzers
are prone to pancreatic conditions but, I’d read someplace
dogs utilize fats for energy, contrary to how carbs work
for humans? Is this correct? What would you suggest?

Thanks

[pugmomsandy]

Quality animal-sourced fat is what I would look for in a food. I know someone who feeds quality raw food for a post pancreatic dog. While Schnauzers are prone to pancreatitis, I think “normal” fat is ok. MelissaAndCrew has experience with Schnauzers and they eat a regular fat food, around 14-15% I think but you’d have to check with her. Also, the fat amount listed on the bag (and protein too) are minimum values.

[bill c]

Gottit Pug’. I’ll roll with your list. It kicks!

[Susan]

Hi, like the videos, here’s a Fat% Protein & Carb % converter that will help
http://naturalalternativesvet.com/pet-food-label-translator save it for when you need to use…

[Melissaandcrew]

Hey there…Pugs is right and my crew eat average sort of levels..no more than 16 percent. When I wish to incorporate a higher fat one, I mix with a lower fat one to keep the overall level the same. Ex..Acana Grassland is 17percent fat so I might mix it with Natures Variety Prairie or Nutrisource etc etc. Hyperlipidemia is also a schnauzers problem so kust use caution in higher fat foods.

[pugmomsandy]

This is the only exercise I get in my house:

Pluto the bossy one:

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/IMG_2448_zpsa9436cb2.jpg

Ducky’s saying “you taking to me?”

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/IMG_2449_zps943fdee8.jpg

and old ones saying “no thanks, we’ll just give moral support and cheer”

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/IMG_2444_zpsddffdd4b.jpg

[bill c]

MIB is the first thing that came to mind. Yours are precious. I’m still laughing at Tommy Lee Jones images…soooooooo cool!

Pug, the link was great.

I just plugged in Honest Kitchen’s Thrive. It calculated to 44% fat. SERIOUSLY?

So, is that the number we should be looking at when it comes to staying between 10-12% Fat or should we use the “crude” original number? You’re right, this can be confusing.

[bill c]

Thanks Melissa,

I’m still a bit battered over the calculated “crude” values.

I like the idea of mixing foods.

Getting ready to change and rid the Thrive and Embark that Billy Junior is now
on. I see that Zeal (HK) is a bit more reasonable. I’m also looking at Addiction and still searching for another couple of great low fat Kibbles for my Kidd.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Bill C-
I cannot belive how fast your guy can run on that tread mill. Wow! Thanks for sharing. This might be more confusing, but I wanted to let you know that the converter link that Susan posted is for the calories basis, not dry matter basis. It is a very helpful link, however, as fat calories have about twice the calories as protein. I hope that helps!

[DogFoodie]

Hi Bill!

Great to see you again! I always love your positive energy!

Here’s the best dry matter converter I’ve found: http://fnae.org/dmb.html

I started to make a couple of suggestions, when I realized you were looking for foods with lower protein than what I was going to recommend. Any particular reason you’re looking for the lower protein? I don’t recall you saying anything about Billy having had pancreatitis previously, so are the protein and fat levels just your preference for him?

Sorry if I’m asking questions you’ve already answered or for which you’ve offered explanations!

[bill c]

Thanks Crazy.

Okay, that kinda cleared it up.
Still wondering, though, whether to
use the fat content for dry or valued…hmmm.

I’m looking for a fat content–based on what ‘others’ advise–that’s between 8-14% or 10-20% with protein between 20-30% or 22-26% dog food brand-wise (kibble and/or dehydrated). Perhaps I should hire a mathematician 🙂

[bill c]

Hey DF, Nope, your questions are spot-on. I was reading up on macro-nutrients and most of the Mini Schnauzer circles were suggesting that percentage…just in case. Billy J has no Pancreatic symptoms. I’m just being a OCD father. I’d also heard high fat was not the best way to go. As for higher protein, I tried the higher protein foods last year and over a two week period the loose stools did not abate. The product support (excellent brand I’d been told) mentioned some dogs don’t do well with high protein.

[bill c]

Pug’ posted, here, an incredible list and the breakdown of the Proteins and Fats. So, I’m wondering if that is “Crude” or after calculation. Or if it even matters.

Pug’ thanks for that. It looks like Addiction is coming up stars…

[crazy4cats]

Lol! Yes, I’m a math kind of person and admittedly, it took a while for me to wrap my brain around it! Most importantly, you just need to make sure when comparing food that you use the same analysis to compare. Especially when comparing a canned to a kibble. Sandy has given you a great list. She is a very reliable and valuable resource! Good luck!

[bill c]

Thanks Crazy. I looooooove this forum. Y’all ROCK!
What would the Kidd and I do without support from back home?

[DogFoodie]

It’s great to be proactive, especially with a breed prone to pancreatitis.

In addition to those foods Sandy already suggested, I’d throw out Petcurean products as a suggestion. I was originally going to suggest Go! Senior, but the protein is higher than what Billy does well on. That brings me to Petcurean’s Now Fresh line. Great products with fresh meats only and no meals. The Now Fresh Senior has 24% protein, 10% fat and 341 kcals per cup. There are likely other Now Fresh products that would also met your criteria.

[bill c]

Excellent. I’m on-it.

Thanks

[pugmomsandy]

All the foods I listed are in “dry matter” (after calculation) so they can be compared together. Plug in the “crude” numbers into the calculation to convert all forms (dry, wet, etc) to dry matter.

[theBCnut]

Definitely compare using dry matter. That way you are comparing apple to apples. You can compare a canned food to a kibble to a raw to a dehydrated to a freeze dried if they are all in dry matter.

[bill c]

Brilliant Pug’. Thanks

[bill c]

Thanks BC.

[Kathleen C]

This probably doesn’t help the Schnauzer, but my Boston, Jack, is on Wellness Core Reduced Fat, but not losing weight. So, I checked with Nature’s Variety about their Instinct Healthy Weight Salmon meal, which I’ve used for him before and was recommended to me by my dogs holistic vet, with the idea of putting Jack back on it. They say “The carbohydrates are 25% in our Instinct Healthy Weight Salmon Meal Kibble and 27% in our Healthy Weight Chicken Kibble”, which is what I was asking them about. So, I may go back to that since it’s listed at 34% protein and 12% (min)/16% (max) fat. I’m a little worried about the fat since the Wellness is listed at 13%, but the carbs are 34%, so the carbs will be fewer. My other worry is the turkey in the Nature’s Variety. Jack may be allergic to the chicken in the Wellness. He scratches at his ears a lot, but the vets can find nothing wrong there.

[Susan]

Hi Kathleen, you sure its not the Potatoes in the Wellness thats making him scratch… Potatoes are high in starch that causes yeasty itchy skin, try something without potates or sweet potatoes….My boy scratches like mad on potatoes & scratches his ears & shakes his head when he eats sweet potatoes.. I think the Natures Variety uses Tapioca instead of potatos..

[Kathleen C]

I didn’t know that about potatoes. That’s exactly what he does too. I just checked both bags of food and you’re right, Wellness is full of potatoes. Thank you so much. I actually did start him on the Nature’s Variety tonight. It will take several days to complete, but hopefully it will cure the problem. Looks like the vet would have said something. I’ve had him in to see her several times about his ears and she says there’s nothing she can see that would cause the problem. They’re perfectly clean.

[Susan]

Alot of vets dont know much about food nutrition, when they are studying to become vets, they only do about 6-8 hours on pet nutrition…My vet sends everyone to a dog nutritionist or a holistic vet & they can be very dear, any starchy foods can cause itchy, yeasty skin & ear problems……fast burning carbs turn into sugar & yeast loves sugar, it thrives, take away the starchy high carb foods & the yeast starves, a sugar free diet is needed…..here’s a link to Dr Karen Becker talking about yeast in dogs… 5mins into video Dr Karen talks about white potaoes & sweet potatoes & going on a sugar free diet..she also talks about disinfecting their ears…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl_X1I1GJ1Q

[DogFoodie]

It could be a food intolerance to many different things, Kathleen. Mine reacts the same way to fish (including fish oil), which frequently pops up down the list of ingredients in foods that are other protein based. My friend’s dog reacts the same way to tomatoes. You never know.

I’d suggest closely comparing ingredient panels to help you identify problem ingredients. It can take a while, but his problem ingredients will eventually become evident.

I’d be inclined to try a limited ingredient food for a while to see what happens. If you like NVI, maybe consider their LID’s. My dog with intolerance issues does very well on it. It’s single protein, tapioca, peas and no other fruits or veggies. I just don’t recommend the lamb formula any longer as a recent recipe change significantly reduced the protein and fat and increased the pea protein. Be sure to closely monitor portion size and keep track of treats and toppers, whether canned or fresh, whole foods.

[bill c]

Kat, that does help. Thanks.
Odd, my Kidd is scratching at his muzzle/beard for a couple weeks now. He never used to do that. Thinking maybe its from the Addiction treats I just started. Hmm…

[bill c]

Whoa! I just peeked at the back of the Addiction treats. Potatoes is the second ingredient on all of them. I’ll try eliminating these for a while. Thanks Susan.

[bill c]

DF, what are your thoughts on the Vet’s allergy tests?
Now that you’ve help me lick the fat/protein dilemma…

[bill c]

Susan, everything you just wrote can be applied–literally–to what I face (and have conducted seminars about) in terms of human nutrition and doctors.

I feel like a putz not making the same connection for canines.

Thanks for the slap!
🙂

[theBCnut]

Not DF but, food allergy test for dogs are known to be inaccurate, giving both false negatives and false positives. This is because the tests only test for one type of immune response and dogs actually have several different immune responses to allergens, and they can have the one type that is tested for for more than one reason. If you go to the websites of the various companies that put out all these tests, they all post the disclaimer that their tests are not accurate and the standard for diagnosing food allergies is a properly run elimination diet. If the companies that make the tests suggest you do a food trial instead of using their test, I would listen to that bit of advice.

[bill c]

BC, so you just saved me going to the vet to take that new test procedure they have for $200. Thanks!

[theBCnut]

You are very welcome!!

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