I will honestly admit that in the beginning when we adopted our Bruno, I got on the “grainfree” bandwagon and really did think grain-free is necessary and better. Now I know better thanks to the above ladies and many more, and as far as dry food is concerned, I’d look for high-protein, low-carb foods, with loads of meat as first few ingredients. Many of the foods I have stocked up on happen to be grain-free for this year, but it is not a rule at our household to keep it this way.
I do eventually want to work up to feeding balanced raw though, which I consider the ultimate best/species-appropriate food.
Hi Everyone,
I need some advice if Millie my 7 month old mini schnauzer is : 1. too young to stop Puppy kibble? 2. If she isn’t too young to stop the puppy kibble, can I feed her the various kinds of the grain free Honest Kitchen(that would be the rotating) with toppers of lightly cooked meat or poultry for 1 of her meals? Does the Honest Kitchen have enough nutrients for a young gal or would i have to add various supplements/antioxidents/oils to that meal?
For the 2nd meal would it be ok to give her commercial raw? Rotating within say Primal or Vital Essentials (or whatever raw co. that will ship to me) their various lower fat proteins.
I do know the VE does not add the fruit/veggies so could I top that meal off with maybe some cooked veggies.
BC mentioned that it may be time to cut out her noon meal,so I am trying to figure out how to get her off kibble & increase the raw & introduce the dehydrated.
Thanks so much to all for the great advice and guidance you ALL have given me in these past months. I can’t tell you how much it has meant to me & the girls 🙂
Hey guys- Have you checked the freezer section where you shop for your dog food? The local feed store in my area carries beef heart and chicken liver treats in their freezer section where they also keep the raw bones. I think the brand is Rogue River or something like that. I add an ounce or so of these treats to my pups’ kibble a couple times per week.
Naturella,
My late husband ADORED TRIPE their is a dish called Menudo (no not the group), that he ate like it was candy!!!
On another note has anyone ordered the tripe from “mypetcarnivore.com.?
If so can a recommendation be made as to which kind to get. Is the food offered on this site of good quality. And excuse if this next question sounds off the wall, this is giving real raw correct? Or is it the same as say giving Primal. I am a newbie to commercial raw but slowly trying to get my 2 girls on it full time.
I also wanted to try the ABC diet and see this website has the hearts I cannot seem to find anywhere else.
Thanks in advance for the feedback
Hi Michelle T-
Have you taken your dog to the vet to make sure that she doesn’t have an infection or that the crystals have not returned? I don’t believe that any of the supplements that have been mentioned in the above posts will actually dissolve crystals or cure infections. I do think that they are great preventatives of these conditions. Also adding moisture to their diets is very important, either by feeding canned or raw or adding as much of it as possible to their kibble is very helpful. Plenty of opportunities to go potty is another important preventative measure. I have also read that stress and anxiety can lead to these issues as well. Have you had any big changes in your household lately?
I wish you luck on your quest to help your doggy!
“http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19366336 Diffuse osteopenia and myelopathy in a puppy fed a diet composed of an organic premix and raw ground beef”
“Aimee, is there a way of knowing what pre-mix it was that the dog was fed?”
——————–
Akari, I recognized the name D Geiger as one of the authors of the paper.
It was Sojo’s pre-mix. According to Geiger, the malnourished pup was a patient back in 2006, and Sojo’s refused to reformulate or even acknowledge a problem, when it was clearly deficient when used as directed, UNTIL Geiger and colleagues finally published the paper in 2009.
IMO, Sojo’s current formula is STILL questionable whether the pre-mix makes a complete and balanced meal when used as directed, for some vitamins/minerals.
This is what I am using in my current rotation :
Canned:
Walmarts Pure Balance puppy food, $1, 5 star
Tractor Supply Store’s 4health beef and veggie stew $1, 5 star
Dry:
Rachael Ray Nutrish zero grain, available at walmart and and most supermarkets $22 for 14 lbs, 4 star
Dr Tims Kinesis grain free, order online for $65-$75 for 40 lbs, 5 star
I’ve also used Whole Earth Farms grain free, Petco has it ans maybe petsmart too.
Walmart’s Pure balance Canned has a dedicated puppy food, and the others I listed are approved for all life stages.
Pure Balance also has a dry grain free line, 4 star, budget friendly, but i wasn’t crazy about it
and prob won’t use it again.
I feed raw on the weekends with Sea Spot Live Longer premix. Cheapest boneless muscle meats I can find are chicken hearts ($1 per lb) and pork shoulder roast, has a small bone but easy to remove ($1.69 per lb). Raw pork products should be kept frozen for 2 weeks before serving (kills parasites apparently).
Canned water packed sardines once or twice a week (65’cents per can),
and a recreational pig foot or chicken foot once a week or so ($1 per lb)
I saw frozen pigs heads at walmart for $1’per lb, but decided I don’t want that thing staring at me every time I open the freezer.
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This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by
Z B.
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This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Z B.
Hi Peggy:
IMO you can find good and bad dog treats in any store. I have come across some really cute packaged treats at the boutique stores I shop with ingredients that I don’t need in my food let alone my dog. One of the reasons I make my own. As Marie wrote you need to take as much care choosing treats as you do your dog food.
I don’t like any treats with sugar or molasses, but out of the two I would rather see molasses and for it to be towards the end of the ingredient list. I also like minimal ingredients. If you have to take more than 15 seconds to read the ingredients it’s too many for me. Of the three listed, Newman’s looks decent.
Since you are helping your dog slim down I recommend you consider freeze dried treats or dried vegetables. You can find these type of treats at most pet stores. You can even buy freeze dried food and feed small amounts for treats. Remove some kibble from your overweight dog’s meals to compensate for the added calories from treats. If your dogs are like mine it’s more of the ritual of receiving the treat rather than the amount of the treat. Mine loves to be made over and adding a treat to the attention is just an added bonus. If you are shopping at Petsmart check out these dried veggie and freeze dried treats/dog food:
http://www.petsmart.com/gsi/webstore/WFS/PETNA-PETUS-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewParametricSearch-Browse?SearchParameter=%26%40QueryTerm%3Dfreeze%2Bdried%2Bdog%26OnlineFlag%3D1%26Pets01%3DDog&PageSize=24&SearchTerm=freeze+dried+dog&_t=Pets01
http://www.petsmart.com/dog/treats-rawhide/simply-nourish-trade-natural-grain-and-wheat-free-dog-chips-zid36-4716/cat-36-catid-100007?_t=pfm%3Dcategory%26pfmvalue%3Dfaceted
If you are shopping at Wal-Mart they have a few healthy selections as well. Can’t remember the brands I saw last time I was there, but here is one:
http://rileysorganics.com/
A starting place would be my stickie in the Dog Food Ingredients forum here for grain & potato free foods. It id not up to date but a place to start. My yeast prone dog has had no problems since being on raw.
Hi everyone,
I was at Walmart looking for turkey, chicken, or beef hearts and noticed they had raw beef tripe. No hearts though, they are so difficult to find.
Has anyone ever cooked raw beef tripe and if so do you boil it for a bit, dice it up & feed?
I was thinking it would be a lot less costly than say getting the frozen raw tripe.
All though I would want to cook it a bit, wouldn’t it be just as good as the commercial raw??
Thanks for the feedback
My guess is that the kibbles are too hard for such a small puppy. Try canned, dampening the kibble with some warm water, or smaller a smaller kibble (or a combination of the three).
That said, this puppy is going to stay pretty small. Some dogs, with good reason, just do not like commercial dry diets. You could try a raw diet, either commercial or home made. I’m currently using See Spot Live Longer premix (which is off the market for a few months right now while they set up to be able to produce a larger quantity and other formulas) and various meats for my 8 lb Jack russell mix, at about $20 a month. There are other premixes as well, and they’re pretty easy to find, with a google search. If a raw diet isn’t something you want to try, there are also premixes for home cooked diets.
That’s right! I totally knew that lol Silly tripe and it’s grossness :p
I’ll go out maybe today (or after work tomorrow) and talk to the meat department guys and get a list of exactly what they can order, but I’m pretty sure they’ll all come from mostly beef and chicken, and only at the extent of what I’ve listed off. I wish I could get rabbit for something different every now and then, but they’re like $20 for a small, couple pound animal! Plus the shop they come from is far away lol I think I’ll be able to shop sales on lamb, at least. Variety sucks here lol
Ok, so he weighs 7.8lbs, or 124.8oz. He’s a very active dog (being a terrier) so I wonder if I should keep him at the 5oz he’s eating on SSLL, rather than doing the 2-3% body weight thing you’re supposed to start at (3% for him would be 3.74oz)? At 5oz right now, even on 30% fat pork, he keeps a good, lean, muscley weight.
I think, just to be sure I cover all my bases, I’ll rotate between all raw and the SSLL mix. A just in case sort of deal, you know? I’m still a bit unsure about this whole do-it-yourself business when it comes to balanced raw because if you screw it up, it can be very detrimental. That said, I may go for the multi vitamin deal for some extra insurance. I actually have some kids chewable multi vitamins. Could that be something that would work (They’re all natural and organic, made of fruits and veggies)? If not, what’s cheap that you would recommend?
Hi Akari –
Tripe is not considered an organ mean, it’s considered a muscle meat. Additionally, any tripe sold at a grocery store or butcher shop would not be what you’re looking for. Tripe sold for human consumption is bleached and thoroughly cleaned (why it appears white) – this removes all the benefits of raw tripe (e.g. enzymes, beneficial bacteria). What you want is green tripe (uncleaned), but this can’t be sold in places that sell product for human consumption. I order it from Hare Today or My Pet Carnivore.
Obviously the wider variety of organs that you can feed and the more protein sources you can attain them from the better, however liver and kidney are the two most crucial organs and if you can get them from a red meat source and a poultry source you should be okay – especially if you are still feeding a commercially balanced diet. Feed 5% liver and 5% kidney and rotate between beef and chicken a few times per week.
If you want to go ahead and add a multivitamin to the homemade meals you don’t need to be concerned about adding organ meat all (although you certainly still could).
@Naturella Oh yeah lol it was fully cooked. I’m afraid of even commercial raw (even though I know I shouldn’t be.), so no way am I doing homemade raw at this point. 😛
@Peggy It’s great that you’re cooking some fresh food for them! Have they liked eggs when they ate them in the past? Maybe that was why. Anyway, skipping a meal won’t hurt them, and I’m glad they liked their dinner! 😀
Hey guys! I’ve been looking in to going all raw for Bentley (currently on SSLL) but I’m not sure about organ meats at all. After checking with the grocery store meat department (thank god I work there or they’d think I’m nuts LOL), the only organs I can get are tripe (I assume beef), chicken and beef livers, beef kidneys, beef and chicken heart (muscle, but you know what I mean). I may be able to get lamb or pork organs, I’ll have to double check. I asked if I could get pancreas, and they said that’s its not something they are able to order.
So my questions are, if I can only get beef and chicken organs, would this be enough variety? Also, would it be ok to only use liver and kidney, since there’s really no other place close by to get anything else? After much consideration, it’s not cost of space effective to order online for us. These questions asked, would it perhaps be a good idea to continue SSLL in rotation to pork, chicken and beef muscle meats, and the limited selection chicken and beef organs (assuming I can not get pork or lamb organs)?
And my last question, Bentley weighs something like 7-8 pounds, and is eating 5 oz of muscle meat and SSLL a day. About how much would he be eating on all raw, and how much of that would be organ meat? At his small size, what’s the best way to get him his organs (he loves them, so large meals of them wouldn’t be a problem)? And how do I estimate bone content?
I think that’s all I’ve got for now, but more will come up, I’m sure. Thanks in advance!
According to research, it should not be a coloring in the food. It can be a bacterial or fungal infection in the tear duct, and many people here have noticed tear staining changes with food changes. It could be the reduction in carbs reducing the food for whatever bacteria/fungus is causing it. It could be that the raw/food change is improving your dog’s immune system.
I’ve transitioned my Maltese (mix?) to half raw, half kibble/wet. He gets 1/8th cup kibble (TOTW High Prairie) with a dollop of 4/5 star wet in the AM, and 2.5oz PMR in the PM.
It’s been roughly a month, and I’ve gradually noticed that his once very prominent, reddish brown stains have gradually been going away. There are now only faint, old stains. However, I’ve noticed he still has eye ‘goop’, it’s just now clear, instead of colored. Is this due to possible coloring in the kibble? I was wondering if it was perhaps the reduced carbs.
His eyes have always been very wet (they bulge a lot, and he has issues with his eyelashes)
Even more motivation to make the full switch to raw, though. 😀
Oh my goodness! This is so sad. I’ve never heard of anything like this before. Did your vet have any discussion with you as to how this may have occurred? You didn’t mention what he was eating before. Dry, canned, raw, dehydrated, freeze dried? Did he get blood work done to make sure everything else is ok? Heather I am just so sorry this has happened to your dog. 🙁
I just googled Necrois of the tongue and the sites state that a biopsy is crucial. Did your vet to a scraping or anything for a biopsy? It sounds like some form of vasculitis but it could be some other things also.
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This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by
Dori.
Some dogs can take longer than three weeks. Were their stools good during the transition? I usually will suggest not increasing the percentage of new foods until stools are normal. Natural Balance grain free is very low in protein and Merrick is high so that was a big change. Sometimes transitioning to something “in the middle” is a good place to start before moving on to a higher protein food. That would be a food in the 3.5-4 star range. You can go back and add some NB to their food until their stools become normal and that will bring the protein down some (closer to mid-range). As an example of a dog needing a long transition time, one of my dogs took two or three months. You can also keep “mixing” foods together just to add variety and to get the level of protein that you want.
I foster and have many dogs. I did get some Merrick grain free of them once and put too much of it in their food at first and 4 or 5 out of ten maybe had GI issues. I just cut the Merrick some more with a lower protein food and they finished the bag without any issues and I’ve fed it again since then (mixed) and no one had issues.
My personal dogs have tried a dozen kibbles and have worked up to eating raw foods. You can just give it more time or try another food as there are many to chose from.
Hi Elissa-
Typically if a brand is safe for dogs, it will be a good choice for cats as well. Us cat lovers that also have dogs are patiently waiting for a cat food advisor that hopefully will be available in the future. In the Meantime, check out these sites. They are my favorite cat resources. I believe that all four of them have a recommended list or chart of cat foods. All of them suggest feeding as much canned, raw or homemade food as possible. They believe that kibble is not species appropriate for cats as they are carnivores.
I’m sorry about the loss of your pets and best of wishes with getting your current pets healthy.
Home
http://www.naturalcatcareblog.com/
Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition
http://www.felinecrf.org/
Good luck!
BC,
If you wouldn’t mind I need your input.
Millie my 6 1/2 month old is eating A.M. 1/3 c Orijen Puppy kibble (which is about to go out of the rotation) mixed w Horizon Legacy Puppy (that bag is larger so she will be on that a little longer) as a topper she is getting 1 oz lightly boiled beef.
Noontime: 2-3 Primal Rabbit nuggents w either carrots or cooked squash & zucchini 1-2tbsps.
Suppertime: 1/3 c kibble (same as brkfst) w 1oz boiled chicken.
She does get cocotherapy dried fruit or veggies 2 handfuls
A few times a week she will either a bully stick or a cow ear.
I want to take the noontime feeding out as well as eventually giving her kibble less frequently and adding the honest kitchen in the rotation
She picked up wt. very quickly she is close to what the breeder told me was her adult weight (15lbs).
In your opinion am I feeding her enough? too much?
According to the bags of kibble & that is if she were only eating kibble she should have almost 1 c per day. But since I add the meat as toppers & the raw for lunch, I hesitate to increase the kibble.
Thanks so much
@Peggy, you’re very welcome! I am not by any means the epitome of healthy dog eating, but I try to keep his diet varied and healthy on a budget! 🙂 Hence the dang near stockpile of kibble in my bathroom cabinets! LoL.
Bruno will eat ANY fruit or vegetable, raw or cooked, lol! Glad your pups at least eat the ones you mentioned cooked. I forgot, peanut butter is also loved by Bruno but he only gets it in homemade doggie treats or doggie ice-cream. 🙂
As for flax seed meal, I would just buy the cheaper one to be honest. I keep mine in a glass jar in the fridge for storage to prolong shelf life.
Hello here too, guys! 🙂
Ok, so for Peggy, I will post again the pics of Bruno’s menu and additives schedule, maybe she can choose some from there, and also check out the amounts for a 15-ish lb dog.
http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q644/aninova/Bruno2014-2015Menu_zps6ccc6e19.jpg
http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q644/aninova/BrunoWeeklyToppers_zpsdfd1a9be.jpg
Ok, so I feed the above toppers with the 1/4 cup of kibble as noted. You can use other fresh food toppers, like I see you have – raw or lightly cooked ground meats are great, raw or lightly cooked eggs too, cottage cheese, cooked veggies/leafy greens, some fruits (I give fruits raw), raw meats/raw meaty bones, canned sardines, jack mackerel, or salmon (not tuna – too much mercury I hear), yoghurt/kefir, coconut or fish oil (or both), canned pumpkin is good for fiber as is flaxseed meal (and the latter also gives Omega 3s), etc. There’s a lot to choose from that you can add, but let me recommend that you also add some warm water to the kibble. You may choose to soak it or not, but it does help with hydration and for ease of mixing oils, eggs, yoghurt, dehydrated foods, and just about anything else. It may look gross and soupy in the bowl, but it is so good to our furry friends, and they will slurp it all up nonetheless! At least Bruno does! 🙂
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This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by
Naturella.
Thanks Marie. I’m always hoping that when I post on the benefits of raw (commercial raw) feeding that I’m making myself understood. I have a tendency to ramble and then not read what I’ve typed before pushing the submit button. Sometimes I remember to go back and read and can’t believe how much of my thoughts were left in my head and never made it to the keyboard. I don’t know if that means I think faster than I type or the other way around.
Always good to hear from you. 🙂
Hi Deanna. Life stories are always welcome. It lets us all know background stories and whether one is old or new to the world of companion animals.
If your vet is a traditional vet than he/she will give you all the cons of feeding raw. Bacteria, yada yada yada. None of that, in my experience is true. All dogs have a bit of salmonella in their guts. It is dogs that have been fed kibble and/or inferior foods that will or could have an issue with salmonella in foods. A healthy dog (gastrointestinal health I’m speaking of) have no issues with a commercial food that may have a little bacteria in it. I’ve actually never known or heard of a commercial raw fed dog that has fallen ill from bacteria of any sort from a commercial raw diet. The issue with salmonella contaminated raw foods is more of an issue with the animals owners (humans) and not the owners. We are the ones that will get sick BUT only if we are slovenly. I’m sure cooking for yourself and your family now or in the past you have handled raw meats and poultry. When done you are always cautioned to clean all surfaces, clean all utensils and scrub your hands and all surfaces that the raw foods have touched. It’s the same thing. Raw meat and poultry is raw meat and poultry regardless of whether your feeding it to yourself and loved ones of the human variety or your animals. A lot of the traditional veterinary community seem to think that commercial raw feeders are indiscriminate as to what we feed our animals. I’m not sure where some of these vets are getting their education from or lack thereof. They don’t really keep up with the times and would prefer to just scare you off.
As to how much I feed my dogs, specifically Hannah, as she weighs 7 lbs. like your yorki does, it depends on what I’m feeding. If I’m feeding Primal Pronto (it’s a complete and balanced diet from Primal made in little “kibble like” bits frozen) then I scoop out 1/4 cup in the a.m. or p.m. just as I would have done with a kibble. If it’s in a pattie form, then I read the packaging for her weight and feed her accordingly. Typically it’s 1/4 of the pattie per meal. For varying meals even though all three of my girls weigh a little bit differently I pretty much feed them all the same amount. Lola, my 5 lb. girl is very very hyper so she burns everything off quickly. If she’s awake, she’s in motion. Katie my 6 lb. girl is tall for a Maltipoo and very petite in structure. She was the runt of the litter and due to be put down before I rescued her into our family. She has a lot of issues food wise, environmentally and muscoskeletal so I’m always making sure she keeps her weight on. Hannah, my true couch potato, and at her age that’s okay with me, she stays on the lean side. Because she is 15 1/2 years old and a touch of old age arthritis I keep her on the lean side. I’m not big on having a scale to weigh them on a regular basis. I feel my dogs. If they have a little bit of coating on their ribs that I don’t mess with the amount I feed them. If I feel one of them and can too readily feel their ribs where with my fingers I can actually feel an identation then I know that dog needs a bit more food. If I have to press down too much to feel ribs, then I feed a little less for that dog. Kind of like ourselves. We have heavier days and lighter days. Winter we’re indoors a bit too much in the summer we’re very active.
I got both Lola and Katie both when, I guess I was around 61 or so. I thought I’d go insane. Literally, I was shedding tears all the time. I then thought it was one of my bigger mistakes. It was tough going having to 9 week old puppies at the same time. I hadn’t had a puppy in so long I’d forgotten the colossal amount of work let alone having two. Well, now that all is said and done I have to say that Lola and Katie are the best of pals. They are not siblings in the true sense of the word but you’d never know it. They sleep by each other, they rough house, play, everything together. But honestly I didn’t think I’d make it through those first couple of years. Hannah was none to happy about any of it either. Now they all pal around together. When I call them to let them out in the back Hannah won’t go out until she waits for the other two to catch up. All three wait for each other by the back door before they’ll come back in. Very very cute. Of course, if one of them barks, they all start barking even though the other two haven’t got a clue why or what they’re barking about. Very funny. Some times irritating but mostly have given me so much love and quality to my life. At 66 I’d probably be able to handle a puppy again but certainly not two at a time. Though I think I would rescue a senior at this point in my life. At one point in your life you want babies and are all about babies and as you get older you see the need that seniors (whether they be humans or dogs) need.
One last point on commercial raw feeding. Once you do it you’ll wonder what took you so long and what you were so worried about. Also, feeding commercial raw foods is not at all what you think it’s going to look like. It’s not like you’re going to toss a whole animal at your dog for dinner. I couldn’t possibly handle that. Really it just looks for the most part like ground meats in shapes of hamburgers. Other than the “kibble like” bits that are meant for the squeamish kibble feeders trying to make a transition into raw and also because they defrost so darn quick.
Michael,
where is thi auto ship from? I had autoships with Darwins Raw, Chewy.com and The Honest Kitchen; there was no fee to cancel. I would never use a company that did that.
Hi Dori. I have thought about it but for some reason I can’t do it. How much do u feed your 7 lb baby? I give my Bailey Fruits and whole green foods too. I am thinking about getting a yorkie puppy. My Bailey is a rescue and my second yorkie. I’ve been trying to find another rescue but yorkies are so hard to find. I’m 65 so the thoughts of a puppy is scary. I support United yorkie rescue but most of them are too old. My Bailey was 2 when I got him.He was an owner surrender with heart worms. Oh well didn’t mean to give u my life’s story but I am going to talk with my vet about the raw feeding. He’s all for it. He’s the best Vet. Thanks, Deanna
BC
thanks so so much.
I guess the breeders must get some kind of kick-back (i don’t mean that in a bad sounding way) but this was a mini schnauzer breeder and yes her guarantee was also contingent on giving the Nuvet vitamins, she even gave a special code to get a 45% discount.
Thanks again.
Do you think a puppy that is fed commercial raw, orijen & legacy kibble, cooked meats, poultry & veggies and eventually THK should be on supplements ?
My older gal is on some ,but with this gal at 6 1/2 months should I be giving them so soon?
She grew in the 3 1/2 months that’s she’s been with me and weighs almost 15 lbs-all she wants to do is eat, I hesitate to take the 3rd meal away, but I don’t want her to gain too much weight too quickly.
Thank you always for your input and knowledge
Uh Oh Peggy! You weren’t taking into account the wet food were you? Or the treats? Yikes is right. Back to the drawing board for you dear lady, that’s for sure.
Happy if my post helps you rethink the amount of food you’re feeding. No way was Tebow going to lose weight eating that much food 🙂
YIKES! Back to the drawing board. 🙁
Hi weezerweeks. Thought I’d jump on in the conversation since all three of my girls of teeny tiny also. Lola 5 lbs., Katie 6 lbs. and Hannah 7 lbs. Have you ever given thought to feeding commercial raw foods to your yorkie. I know that commercial raw foods are way more expensive than kibble but you don’t feed kibble at all. You feed canned foods which aren’t typically cheap. Since you’re only feeding a 7 lb. yorkie the frozen food would last you a good long while in the freezer. Just take out the night before what you would feed him for the next day in the fridge to defrost. All three of my dogs were a little on the chunkier side before I went to commercial raw diets. Since feeding commercial raw diets (3 years now) they have all thinned out to their present weights and maintain that weight all the time. I also give them organic (when possible) fruits and veggies as their treats. It doesn’t seem to change their weight at all and Hannah is a real couch potato. Hannah, my 7 lb. 15 1/2 year old Maltese, is hypothyroid and has been for probably half her life if not more and her thyroid level always tests normal. The diets are high in protein, fairly high in fat and very low in carbs. Some people think that because the fat % is so high they will get fat, or have all sorts of medical issues, pancreatitis, etc. etc. In actuality, the opposite is true. As to the fat content in foods. I have said this so many times I need to make a recording…..It is not the amount of fat in their food (or ours for that matter) it is the quality of the fat in the food. Your dog will lose the weight, stay at a nice lean weight, will not act like he’s hungry or starving day in and day out. I can’t say enough good things about the commercial raw dog foods. They have made a world of difference in all areas for my three dogs.
Some people feed their dog/s an entire bag of food and then rotate to a new brand/bag. Some rotate so that every meal is different. Like Cheryl above me asked, do you eat the same thing every meal/every day of your life? I’d guess not and I’m sure our animals would prefer not to as well.
Also, some recommend phasing in/out from old to new foods, while others simply give the new food. I fall into the last category of both giving a new food and different food at each meal. I rotate between 2 or 3 brands/proteins at a time. Currently we are using Wellness Simple Salmon and Merrick Steak and potatoes. Our red meat food is about to run out so we’ll be trying I and Love and You’s Raw dehydrated Beef when that happens.
I am transitioning to Stella and Chewy raw frozen food. The amounts recommended seem excessive. Does anyone have any experience or recommendations?
This has been really beneficial, thank you! I usually feed Yoshi a half cup of Evo per day. I’ve experimented with it but pretty much ended up with whatever was on the package. I went to the store today and came back with a couple of starter pack raw nuggets — one of the ones you suggested and another they had there which I forget the name of. Yoshi was interested immediately and wanted it as soon as I tried to open the bag. Once it had thawed he was happy to eat some mixed with his kibble. I’m hoping it makes a positive difference because I could be a convert…I appreciate your help!!!
Phillip O
Did you happen to ask your vet what the rationale behind not feeding a rotational diet was?
Does he or she eat the same exact thing day in day out their entire lives?
I suspect many may agree or disagree but here goes if you pups stay on the same food day in day out and suddenly develop itchy ears, eyes ,paw licking they will say an allergy has developed and an elimination diet is necessary or even better they will want to prescribe a prescription diet, while visits ,tests etc and you feeling helpless and your wallet gets thinner and thinner.
From most of the reading I have done eating the same food can actually cause problems for some dogs. That’s why offering different proteins different brands is actually beneficial.
I know how overwhelming this site can be,if i may I would suggest you first decide on what TYPE of food you want to feed: Kibble, canned, freeze dried , commercial raw, dehydrated, home cooked, real raw,and then look at the 4-5 star rating within the food,
I feed kibble but I lightly cook a topper of turkey chicken beef to up the protein or you can do kibble with a topper of canned. Kibble w a raw patty. so many varieties. I used to stay on this site most of the night trying to figure out what to try, plea don’t to that.
There are very helpful knowledgeable folks to guide you on this site
Good luck.
Greetings giant breed owners,
My current Dane is 10.5 years old and looks and acts like he’ll be around for a few more. He’s happy and and alert and active for his age. My buddy eats “Paleo” right along with me. Mostly Protein, (often red Pacific wild salmon–we live in Alaska) mixed with quality rice or root vegetables drizzled in olive oil and baked, carrots and celery (his fav) for snacks. He was boarded for a while when I couldn’t keep him and his caregiver gave him about 1/4 of fish oil in his dry food and and plenty of rawhide to keep him busy. When I got him back he was panting a lot and I assumed a heaet condition. X-ray showed a slightly enlarged heart. I did some research and discovered dry food is lacking in Taurine, L-Carnitine and Acytel L-Carnitine, among other critical amino acids and nutritional components. I started supplementing with the three amino acids, and adding squirts of liquid B-complex. His panting decreased and his eyes became focused and alert and his energy level increased. I abandoned my conventions on the focus of food “brands” and the idea of consistency. How boring. What do animals in the wild eat for dinner? Who cares? Its what ever gets them to the next meal! Variety and fluctuation is normal in the wild, and in fact stimulating for an animal. I mix table scraps with dry food. Dinner always taste different, what a pleasure for an animal whose sense of is also a form of communication! some days he doesnt get the dry food at all. Just after I started the supplemts I decided to feed him raw. I bought grass fed buffalo and he got 1/4 to 1/3 pound, give or take, twice a day. I’d recomend not using any grain fed meat for the reason it is sometimes 10x higher in the inflammatory Omega-6’s which is why we humans should avoid grain fed beef like the plague as well. Grass fed free range livestock has the balance of O-6’s to O-3’s that our paleo brethren grew up on and adapted to. But the most IMPORTANT thing one can do is treat your large breed friends as if they were your own grade school aged children. Get outside with them. Play with them outside like your own child. They DO have vocabulary you know. Just because they don’t show it in reciprocal speech doesnt mean they wouldn’t love to hear you talk to them about your activities. Label things when you are on walks. My buddy loves clover. When I get ready to drive him to a nearby trail i always ask if he wants to go smell “clover” or do you want to drink some water from the “stream”, excitement and anticipation dripping from my words. I don’t always know his choice but I always to to keep things varied. Satiate your large dogs with human interaction and variety. You’ll get more out of your companions than any top brand food can make a difference.
I’m looking for a little guidance concerning the amount (size or ounces or?) of raw to feed along with kibble. Right now Jake gets about a cup of kibble per day, a little less depending on the topper. Half a cup am and pm. I was thinking about giving him raw at suppertime. If I buy commercial raw I can obviously go by the instructions on the package but what about giving a piece of meat? What would be a “meal sized” amount for a beagle/basset, about 34#? Do I give him a chicken drumstick? A thigh? Can I hand him a pork chop? Is that all he gets or does he need a little bit of kibble, too? And how often? Can he have that a few times a week and kibble for his other meals? Would the nutrition all balance out in the end? He’s had RMBs as a treat and loves them. I just don’t know how to figure the right amount to count as his meal. I know he’ll eat whatever I give him so I worry about weight gain.
Oh Dori,
This has been a real nightmare, I wanted to downsize, yard etc, saw this townhouse well didn’t like the cabinets tore them out & found BLACK MOLD -well you can imagine gutted the entire 2 stories to the studs!!! As I said a nightmare that is a sinking well of money!!!
I guess while reading your post you do make sense – why have someone else cook, when I could do the same.
It’s funny I got the Primal Nuggets from Wag.com will have to check on the “Pronto” since it ships from the manufacturer.
I can get the “Vital Essentials” & Nature’s variety Instinct Raw here so that’s good , they also had Nature’s Logic it was on Susan’s list in 2013 but just read the review here and I will pass on that raw brand.
This is another reason I so miss living in a city-the availability of everything.
Well if i can rotate different brands with the lower fat proteins , I guess that would be ok., since you said each protein though the same is just a bit different when you change up the brands.
I am going to call Answers as you suggested along with OC Raw, see if they will ship directly to me. This local feed store cannot get either from there vendor.
You are wonderful, thank you again.
Have a great weekend
I started my dogs on Stella and Chewy raw frozen patties today. It seems like the recommended amount is much more than I was feeding before. One was on kibble and the other was on the Honest Kitchen. Are the recommended amounts correct?
Cheryl,
Don’t let the fact that Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw is sold at those large stores deter you from using this food. It has a very good reputation and I feel comfortable feeding it to my girls. Though I don’t shop at large box type pet stores, at least three of the local “boutique type” dog food stores that I shop at carry the food.
As for Fresh Fetch, it’s been on Susan’s list for a while. I did research them at one time and their shipping prices were astronomical. Shipping cost more than the food did. If they’ve changed their shipping prices (which I doubt), I’m still not sure why anyone would pay their prices for food and shipping when you can research complete and balanced cooked diets and make it at home for a heck of a lot less. As to Frenchie’s Kitchen, again very expensive for a cooked food. If my memory serves me correctly, the shipping on frozen food was free but the cost of the food was crazy high. Again, one can cook a complete and balanced diet at home from recipes found on this site and others and many great dog books. That is if you want to feed cooked or supplement raw feeding with cooked meals to bring the cost of feeding down. Though I have no inclination to cook complete and balanced meals on a daily basis for my dogs, if that’s what I chose to feed my dogs I would make them myself. I don’t cook on a regular basis for hubby and I anymore so I’m not about to start now.
I’ve renovated probably every home we’ve lived in and so I know what you are going through. It’s exhausting and takes up almost all your waking and sleeping thoughts. Whenever I start a renovation project it is pretty much all I can think about. Glad I can help you in my small way.
OH! Just wanted to say about the Primal Pronto, any place that sells Primal will also sell the Primal Pronto. It’s actually the same food as the Primal formulas just made into small “kibble like” bits so you can scoop out and serve. The real plus of the frozen foods that are the little bits like is that if you’ve forgotten to put the days frozen meals in fridge to defrost, you can just scoop them into their bowls, leave on counter and approx. 15 minutes later they are soft and ready to serve.
I feed my dogs raw chicken and turkey bones all the time, but I would never give them knuckle bones or other heavy weight bearing bones like a femur. I would worry about mine breaking a tooth on those. I still supervise them, but I have significantly less concern over soft, consumable bones like chicken wings, chicken necks, chicken backs, lamb trotters, turkey necks or chicken feet. Cooking changes the composition of the bone.
Cooking a bone changes the structure of the bone will cause it to splinter. Bone splinters are dangerous. You should only offer your dog raw bones. I don’t give my dogs weight bearing bones either because they’re aggressive chewers and weight bearing bones are too hard for them. Here’s a thread about raw, meaty bones: /forums/topic/eating-raw-meaty-bones/
Dori,
Please, please forgive me for not replying sooner to your kind post of letting me know the foods in your rotation.
I am in then process of renovating a Townhouse I purchased last May and between that and the girls well i am under a great deal of pressure.
I am trying to get all this in my brain and figure out how to go about the full transitions and rotations to raw and probably Honest Kitchen varieties.
It’s pepper i most worry about, so far it seems Millie can transition easier than pepper.
Concerning Nature’s Variety Raw ( and I don’t mean to sound like a snob) is that a good company-I know you do EXHAUSTIVE research,I just thought since all the big box stores carry it, that it was just a so-so company. AS I guess you can surmise by now, I make it very difficult for myself. If it’s too easy, I always question why??
But your endorsement means a great deal.
I can’t seem to find the primal pronto but will call the company next week.
I know you must be familiar with Susan Thixton.
She provides a “Best Foods list yearly.
Have you ever heard of “Fresh Fetch” or “Frenchie’s Kitchen”Fresh Fetch looks interesting-
these are cooked so you may not be too interested in them, just thought you MAY want to look at them.
Dori, thank you so much again, I sound like a broken record but you are really a very special and lovely person.
Yes, Raw Meaty Bone (RMB) is actually raw meat and bones. My personal dogs are raw fed (ground to whole prey) and eat dehydrated foods and my fosters eat kibble, canned and dehydrated foods. I’ve used Amicus, Back to Basics, and currently use Muenster Grain Free and Pro Pac Ultimates Grain Free and Nutrisouce Grain Free regularly and all the dogs’ stools have been solid, even with the addition of canned foods. How much are you feeding of EVO BTW? Also, you might find a Rotational Diet beneficial. My dogs always have solid stool no matter what I’m feeding since I change regularly.
http://urbanpawsmagazine.com/archives/59
For a dry, shelf stable dehydrated raw product, check out Stella and Chewy’s, Primal, Nature’s Variety, and Vital Essentials.
Here’s the raw feeding pictures topic:
/forums/topic/pictures-of-dogs-eating-raw-raw-meals/
btw….if you do raw, most of them only have the one meat protein. ie Primal Turkey and Sardine only has Turkey and Sardine. Bravo turkey only has turkey.
Hi Robert B:
Is there a reason you don’t want to continue mixing fresh meats with your dog’s kibble? Many regular posters feed their dogs this way, topping kibble with either fresh healthy meats, canned, or commercial raw. I use a topper for each of my dog’s meals.
Where do you buy food? Annamaet, Wellness, Earthborn, Fromm’s, Nature’s Variety Instinct, Nutrisource, and Precise are some other brands to look into.
Please read review on Blue Buffalo and google complaints about Blue Buffalo. Maybe your do is trying to tell you something. As to any suggestions for a dry food I’m sorry that I can’t be of any help there. I feel commercial raw foods to my three toy dogs as well as organic fruits and veggies. I know that quite a few posters seem to like Victor’s Grain Free, Nature’s Logic, Annaemaet (?), Brothers Complete, Nature’s Variety Instinct, Acana, Orijen. Those are just a few that I have read dry food feeders compliment. I’m sure there are others but I don’t know. What you can also do is switch to a dry food (for economic reasons I would suppose) and use a canned or freeze dried food as a topper. Your dog would get better nutrients than merely feeding a dry food. There are many other things that you could add to a dry food to make it more palatable and nutritious.
I hope this bumps up your question and kibble feeders will see and respond. 🙂
Oh interesting, thank you! Now when you say “Raw Meaty Bone” do you mean exactly that? I am absolutely clueless about raw foods but I feel certain that this pooch would love to indulge once in a while. Thank you for these suggestions, I’ll go off now and do some research…
Thanks InkedMarie. I have been researching Reel Raw…they look real good so far. Great reviews and prices are competitive. I’m also looking at Hare Today and maybe even Greentripe.com. Things have changed a lot in the raw dog food industry since I left it in late 08. I wish I never changed the dogs food, as I have lost all my saint bernards to various types of cancer. My last two died within the past 9 weeks – so it’s been a very rough couple of months.
2 months, 2 weeks ago
