[Jonathan S]

I’m in the same boat… I have two border collie pups 34 and 36 pounds. Half their diet is raw food of my own creation, so the kibble goes a long way. I want to be able to feed them a variety to keep them interested and I think I’ve finally found the brand I want to switch to as they have lots of choices for flavor mixes (going with Orijen/Acana). I’ll probably stick with the 15ish pound bags so they can be rotated to different flavors on just about a monthly basis.

I was just curious about if there is a concern over freshness, what is the threshold for that concern. I think I’ll be fine if I keep rotating.

[jakes mom]

Sounds like you’re giving him a lot of different things all at once. All good for him but many of them are potential allergens. I would slow down a little. many people on here have dogs with chicken/fowl allergy so I’d stop the chicken for sure right now. I would also stop feeding Blue anything. You’ll see lots of complaints about that brand on this site. Put Blue in the search bar. You may need to go back to whatever he was eating when you got him if he was ok while eating that, even if it wasn’t a great quality. Start adding a new food, and only one, and wait a week or so, see how he reacts. Then add another food, see what happens. This way you can tell what’s bothering him. As far as the stool, start him on a probiotic. My dog can eat whatever is put in front of him but some dogs with a more sensitive stomach may need a little help with the transition. Some dogs have trouble especially going from, say, a 2 star food right to a 4 or 5 star. Go slow, you can work your way up to good kibble and raw. Good luck, hope this helped.

[Pamela S]

My one dog Quinn is 11 he has always eaten grass. Everyday my dogs get a different dog food, I believe in variety. Quinn just likes grass I get blood draws every year, his levels are always perfect. He doesn’t throw up from it, it always the tall grass. He also eats almost any vegetable I put before him.

I think as long as they are not throwing up they are fine. Just make sure it is not sprayed.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Hello Fellow DFA people,
I have been absent for a while due to major changes-the biggest being my adopting 3 more pups (toy schnauzers) which now brings my total to 6!!!
Crazy i know, but crew 2 as I call them Abe Murray & sister Marlie are all from the same litter.
They came to me underweight fleas and intestinal worms on May 30th. Now they are worm free weight great ( On commercial raw ,cooked meats and dehydrated THK) vet was so happy when she saw them-she wants to send me her hard cases-I politely said no.
But I have a huge problem -I am faced with fleas – i live in south louisiana -we are having one of the worst seasons ever. Crew 1 Pepper Millie & Sophie are my mini schnauzers Pepper is my blind angel who just turned 12 years young Millie turned 1 on july 4th and Sophie is 7 months-well I guess crew 2 brought them in and oh my they (the fleas) don’t want to leave.
I have always used a topical either frontline tritak or frontline plus ,but now it is totally ineffective.
I hesitate to give an internal pill for fleas ,since they MUST be on heartworm chewables ,since we are the heart worm capitol .
I have been seeing Nexgard but am so skeptical.
I started both crews on granulated garlic but know that can take time to work and I am very slowly dosing them, I use the mercola spray before we walk, bathed in old fashioned dawn, been washing everything like a fiend.
Friends I am at a loss, I am so afraid to spray a chemical on my yard so I use Diamacous Earth.
Any feedback, opinions on giving nexgard a try during the bad months and doing a topical in the other months? I fear for Pepper given her age & multiple health problems ingesting a chemical to kill fleas-Oh how I hate this.
Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this and reply.
Hope all of you are doing well and your fur-kids free of bugs and enjoying the summer

[Miss Koa]

Thank you C4D re: commercial mixes. I didn’t know that. I thought it was actual meat already mixed like sometimes you see those ones in a roll? I was thinking it was those. Thank you for clarifying. 🙂

Jonathan S – lol! Nah, you don’t sound like a jerk. It is what it is, and you are right. My pup’s eaten goose poop, cat poop, picked up (but not eaten, thank goodness!) dead mice etc. So yeah. I see your point. 🙂
Plus, so far, we are all still alive. Lol! I have been feeding her raw chicken in the evenings.

I guess I was overly concerned because I bake cookies as a side “business” of sorts, and of course I make sure everything is clean and sanitized….even before we started the raw diet… But was scared mostly about transference…like say, if my husband or child had played with the dog earlier, then came to the kitchen and their shirt rubbed onto the counter or something and I didn’t know…then started baking…etc. Just was wondering the risks. Maybe the risk is very low, but I just wanted opinions. I wouldn’t want to sell salmonella cookies! Lol!!!

Thank you again for taking the time to answer my question! 🙂

[Pitlove]

Hi Alison– First I want to say congrats on your Boxer pup. My aunt had one when I was growing up and he was such a great dog. Jonathan offered some good advice, but one thing I NEED to stress to you is the importance of being aware the large/giant breed dogs (like a boxer) have very special dietary requirements from 8 weeks of age to 8-10 months of age. They require proper calcium levels and a proper calcium to phosphorus ratio in order to support proper slow growth and help in preventing skeletal diseases that are common in large/giant breeds. If you are wanting to start your guy on raw which I highly recommend as large/giants have been known to live a lot longer on a raw diet, PLEASE make sure you consult with a nutritionist who KNOWS the actual dietary needs of a large/giant breed. Most should, especially if they are supportive of a raw diet.

Here is a testimony of a Newfoundland breeder who feeds a raw diet to his pups and his Sir’s and Dam’s. One of his newfie’s lived to the impressive age 17 years old!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=806j18u4S_g

[Jonathan S]

I’m not an expert, but I have been feeding my pups raw for a few months, so take this as you will. I think it will depend on if you’re planning to feed commercial raw, or make your own. The steps I would take (making my own) are…

1. Transition the pup to a quality kibble that you’re comfortable with and watch for any reactions to different protein sources.
2. Talk to your vet. If your vet is pro raw diet you will get good direction from them. If your vet is anti-raw, you will need to either seek another vet if you are committed to this, or stop talking about food to your vet.
3. Do research. There is a TON of good information out there. It can be daunting, and some of it will scare you, but do it anyway. Look on YouTube for Dr. Karen Becker. Lot’s of good info from her.
4. Don’t back down. People will try to tell you you’re doing the wrong thing. Don’t let them frighten you off.
5. Make a plan. In your research be sure to pay attention to the side effects of going raw and of changing food. Sometimes they can scare you and send you off to your vet or make you stop feeding raw, when really it’s just a natural adjustment reaction, or a reaction to the type of protein or amount of fat you’re using. Know what you can expect to see and be ready to react accordingly. Remember, when you stop feeding raw because of a stool problem or the such, it’s like you have to start over again.
6. Experiment. Begin adding raw into your pup’s diet and see how they react. Do they take the food well? Do they seem to like it? Start adding other ingredients and see how they react. Try to add the ingredients one at a time or you will have trouble figuring out which one, if any causes a problem.
7. Once you have a successful recipe, or more than one successful recipe, start replacing the kibble with the raw… go 25% raw to 75% kibble until the pup stabilizes, then go 50% raw to 50% kibble.
8. Watch your pup’s collar size, and keep tabs on their weight. You don’t want them too skinny or too fat. Hopefully you will have a pro-raw vet that can help guide you.

For myself I’m sticking to 50% raw 50% kibble just to make sure I don’t miss something important in their nutrition. My mix is pretty good, but a good quality kibble can be a nice safety net. I’m hoping to get to the point where I can do 75% raw and 25% kibble, but I want to refine my process more before I go there.

I hope this helps!

[Alison T]

Hello Everyone!!

My name is Alison. I’m getting a boxer puppy next week. The breeder has been feeding it purina. I want to start feeding raw as soon as possible. How do I make the transition?
Thanks so much for your help!
Alison

[Jonathan S]

I’ve been feeding my dogs raw for a few months now and the hardest part is finding the right protein. My dogs react badly to Bison, Venison, and Beef, do moderately well with chicken, but thrive on Lamb and Rabbit. It took a lot of experimenting to get it right, but I think I have the right mix now.

If you’re having trouble with stool, it could be the protein source, or it could be too much fat. I the stool is slimy and greasy, that’s a good indication of too much fat, or it could be IBS. Try backing off the yogurt a bit, maybe try substituting the chicken for turkey.

I feed my dogs half raw and half kibble. I read some advice somewhere that if you don’t know dog nutrition really well, but you want to do raw, keeping them on some high quality kibble is a good safety net in case you miss something.

Also, there’s a lot of advice that you should feed your raw and your kibble separately due to the rate they metabolize. I tried that and my dogs started vomiting their meals… I think the richness was too much for them. I went back to mixing the raw with the kibble and they’re right as rain.

Just don’t panic, and don’t give up. Keep researching, and keep trying. I find this process very rewarding and I feel it brings me closer to my dogs.

[Anonymous]

I am not familiar with the foods you mentioned, I would go with the prescription food recommended by the veterinarian that is treating your dog. I thought the article below made sense. Hope this helps.

http://dalmatianrescue.org/info/feeding.htm
By Beth White, Melody Kennels
We generically recommend for most Dalmatians foods with the protein source of chicken and turkey, with protein levels in the range of 20-24%. No one food is good for all dogs, but with this range it should cover most dogs. Rather than the protein level, the source of the protein is what is important. Chicken and turkey are the lowest in purines.

If a Dalmatian has urinary problems then it usually means that he can’t break down purines in his diet. Beef is highest in purines so we recommend the other protein sources. We also suggest that Dalmatians (again, most dogs) be fed scraps as a healthy addition to their “balanced” diet. It is interesting to note that all foods, from Walmart’s Old Roy to the most expensive foods on the market state “nutritionally complete” or “balanced”. Ever wonder why pet foods are considered balanced but human food isn’t?

Scraps help make the dog’s diet more complete. One of the worst things that has happened to modern pets is modern dog food….but that is another story. When we used to slop the hogs and slop the dogs, we didn’t have hip dysplasia or many of the other more modern structural problems. Our convenient dog foods are an improvement in many ways, but they are not complete or balanced. Scraps are also “tasty” and fun for the dog.

Veterinarians began recommending not feeding human food when the average pet was found to be too fat., Moving from the farm to the city and from work to retirement caused many pets to loose their shape. Feeding too many scraps isn’t good if it adds weight to dog, but there are just too many nutrients that go down the drain or in the trash that are helpful and useful to our pets. Modern dog foods are not always the best source of nutrients (from a source of diseased livestock possibly, etc.). The foods are also shipped long distances and sit on the shelf sometimes for months, are exposed to heat, etc. All this contributes to reduction in the quality and quantity of nutrients within the food fed to our pets.

There is a growing movement of feeding dogs raw diets, with great health results. For more information, search for Bones and Raw Food diet (BARF), or authors Billingshurst or Pitcairn, who have excellent books on the subject, on the web. Another great resource for dog owners is The Whole Dog Journal. Call 1-800-829-9165 for a trial copy.

Some dogs (Dalmatians included) can’t tolerate ethoxyquin. It is best to feed a food without this preservative. Dalmatians (all dogs even) should always be fed with water added to their food. It need not be soaked, but served like milk on a bowl of cereal. Ask yourself why we add milk to a bowl of grain. It is easier to eat that way. But, with a Dalmatian, there is the added benefit of the dog taking in a larger quantity of water than normal (in order to get to his food) and he flushes his kidneys twice a day. This is good for the kidneys.

All dogs should be fed twice a day. Fortunately, most people have gotten away from feeding only once a day. Livestock is fed twice a day and we eat three times. Once a day simply isn’t enough. We don’t recommend free feeding because it isn’t practical if water is added to the food. If not eaten immediately, it becomes soggy and then either spoils or is wasted. Besides, food exposed to the air loses more of its nutritional potency.

When a Dalmatian has urinary stones the old method, prior to modern commercial kidney diets, was to feed rice and vegetables (cooked with oil, bacon grease, salt, herbs of all sorts for flavor, etc.). Cottage cheese can also be added. Commercial kidney foods are fine, but they are usually not very palatable and often expensive.

Rice and vegetables are healthy and any Dalmatian can live on them and look great. Nothing gets fat on rice! When I prepared this diet for a dog that I once kept, I cooked the rice with various types of oils (Olive, safflower, corn, etc.) and threw in whatever herbs and seasonings I had on the shelf. I also added potatoes, green beans, and many other vegetables. The rice concoction was quite tasty and I usually sampled it too! A vitamin/mineral supplement was also added.

Dogs fed rice and vegetables usually hold their weight quite well. The owner, however, must remember to feed more than he would feed commercial dog food. The good thing is that most dogs actually love rice and vegetables, when herbs and spices and oils are added during cooking. Most of the time this method only requires cooking twice a week. Cook large batches and refrigerate what isn’t fed. Warm cold rice concoction and water in the microwave slowly. When traveling, obviously, it would be better to take commercial kidney foods.
For non-chronic stone formers, but dogs with gravel or sediment in need of veterinary treatment, it is always best to follow your veterinarians advice. But, once the urine has attained a normal pH, attempt to start the dog back onto a quality commercial food. Often a dog’s system has been corrected and by feeding low purines and lots of water, he can return to commercial foods. Make sure that the food is WELL WATERED.

[zcRiley]

Wild yeast naturally lives on potatoes, so I avoid all potatoes. It also feeds off of/thrives on oatmeal (in foods AND shampoos).

I transitioned for an entire year thru half of the 5 star listing to realize it was all the different fillers being used. Also, limited ingredient formulas may not have enough nutrition (my pups starved on it). I finally took out chicken, potato, tapioca, egg, and weird fruits/flowers. I chose peas as their only food “filler”. I skipped their dinner then switched the food cold turkey the next morning. Results were within days, not months. I do not agree anymore with these long drawn out transitioning periods, especially when their dog is suffering every second of every hour. It’s like you know the food is bad but you keep giving it to them, makes zero sense.

[Jonathan S]

Agreed! One thing to mention is that my pups are Border Collies, and they’re both under a year old, so their metabolism and tolerance are still being built up. Right now I’m feeding half raw diet (of my own making) and half kibble. I’m just looking to secure a high quality kibble that I’m comfortable with. At the moment my concerns are quality, integrity, and recipe. I spent a long time figuring out what the best/most stable protein source for my dogs are, so the kibble I go to needs to have a recipe that contains the protein source I’ve been moving toward… in this case, lamb.

In the near future I’ll be moving in a chicken direction, so that will bring up some other possibilities. I’m hoping to get them used to dynamic feeding so that I can keep their food varied and interesting for them without compromising on quality.

[Raquel M]

Hi. i got a new puppy. The sweetest thing ever. I want to give him a good dry food. A friend told me that Orijen is the best. What do you think?

He’s only 5k now and won’t grow up much, so I don’t mind to expend some money. What I don’t have is time, so the raw food is out of the question.

Any recommendations??

[zcRiley]

My pups lost weight on ZiwiPeak which is a raw dehydrated clean food of just different parts of the animal and vitamins. Took all the allergen guess work out and easy to digest. Other symptoms disappeared as well.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Linda-
Since the vet has your pup on the Hill’s u/d formula, im assuming they are oxalate stones. Is this correct? If yes, they cannot be dissolved and either need to be surgically removed or flushed out. I’m sure you prefer the second choice! Red is absolutely correct. You need to get as much moisture in his system as possible. Whether it be canned, homemade, raw, or dehydrated food. I would try to avoid kibble as much as possible and make sure to add water to it if you do feed it. Plenty of bathroom breaks are important too.
Sounds like you have your hands full. I wish you luck!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by crazy4cats.

[Linda G]

I spoke with a nutritionist and he recommended canine caviar chicken and pearl millet or blue Ridge raw chicken…thoughts?

[C4D]

Let me preface this comment with the fact that I feed a variety of foods, including some kibble, canned, fresh cooked and commercial raw food. I have had no problems with my dogs or my family, including infants in the home on a regular basis. If you are an immune compromised person, I would definitely suggest a home cooked diet with a premix raw (these are only vegetables and vitamins) added as opposed to raw meat. Salmonella, listeria, and other bacterias are in many raw foods, including the ones we cook on a daily basis for our families. They can be present on the counters and sinks of our very own kitchen surfaces unless you clean and disinfect correctly. The bacteria can be present in treats, chews and dry dog food as well. Listeria is within the soil and water.

I also foster dogs and have had my share of dogs with Giardia, ringworm, demodex (not know to be infectious) and hookworms and have managed to not have any other person, child or dog infested with any of these problems. I am very proactive in testing my own dogs to ensure that they have not become infested with the various parasites that enter my home with the fosters.

There seems to be a bit of hysteria in the traditional veterinarian community. My own vet does accept the raw feeding of dogs as well as many of the more natural products, including the balanceit program, while also carrying some of the “therapeutic diets” for those that choose that route.

The problem with salmonella, is that it can also be linked to dry dog food:

CDC link:
http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/dog-food-05-12/

CDC Salmonella General Info:

http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/general/index.html

Skeptvet, in your regard to your links, the first one was someone’s blog, which of course, everyone has an opinion. I see this as the contrary to a holistic or natural feeder/vet’s blog.

The 2nd link, was a study of 442 salmonella isolates over a 58 year period. It doesn’t even state the point of the study! So what’s the point of this link in reference to a raw diet as there is no reference to a raw diet anywhere in the link? Yes, dogs can get salmonella, but they can also get cancer, arthritis, kidney disease and a host of other things.

The 3rd link was a study of 10 dogs being fed a homemade raw diet. Really? That’s not a very large study. Certainly not one that even the study could conclude was enough to draw any real conclusions, only a suggestion that infants and immune compromised people shouldn’t feed raw and perhaps a larger study should be done.
Did you also note that even though 80% (8 of the diets) of the raw diet tested positive for salmonella before fed, only 30% (3 dogs) of the dog’s had salmonella in their stool sample? An interesting note is that one of the 3 dogs that tested positive for salmonella was NOT fed a raw diet that had salmonella. So where did he get the salmonella from? And what did the other 6 dog’s digestive system do with the salmonella?

I do believe that if you feed raw, you have to be realistic and clean effectively and take precaution if there are small children in the household. If there are immune or cleanliness issues, then a balanced, fresh cooked diet would be the next best choice.

[jakes mom]

My understanding is that a dog’s GI tract is shorter and stomach acid is more acidic than human’s, this makes it safer for them to eat raw stuff without getting sick. My dog eats raw and loves raw meaty bones, has never been sick. Nor have I gotten sick by feeding it. Just wash hands and keep kitchen clean. Also, don’t forget that the government (FDA) has their nose into regulating pet food. Companies may have to issue “CYA” recalls even tho there’s really no danger to the dog.
That said, nothing’s right for all dogs and people. If you aren’t comfortable with the raw feeding, there are plenty of other options for you like cooking a homemade diet for your dog. Or just feeding a good quality canned food or kibble, altho those are prone to recalls, too. Nothing is 100% safe in life. You just do the best you can.

[jakes mom]

Thanks for the support, guys. I was really disappointed. The probiotics I tried were Perfect Form, the GNC Superfood complex for cats and NaturVet . They didn’t like the first 2, and I thought they smelled like a chic bouill. cube. The NaturVet is a soft treat style, smelled like a chic treat. I crumbled a couple over the food every meal, of course they wouldn’t just eat one!
Luckily they aren’t picky about their canned, will eat whatever brand or flavor. I just stick to the pate, mostly. Partly because of the gravy ingred. and partly because they usually just lick off the gravy and leave the bits!
Jake is a lucky boy! He gets some raw now, frozen or dehydrated, he’ll eat everything! And a couple of the cats did eat some Darwin’s when I cooked it, but not twice in a row, geez! Brats! So that’s the plan, use up what I have on Jake, and cook some once in a while for the cats. I’m just glad I can use it up and not waste all that $$. Expensive experiment!
Nice to hear all of your seniors are still doing well. We try so hard to make them happy, don’t we!

[pugmomsandy]

The pugs eating kibble here get 2/3 to a rounded 1 cup per day. Occasionally, a young whipper snapper will get 1.5 cups per day. And most days there is some canned topper. The raw fed pugs get 6-7 oz per day. The pugs range from 15-27 lbs (I think. Haven’t weighed the big one in a while).

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Skye G]

I don’t have much experience in feeding raw, but I personally will not feed my dog raw chicken due to concerns over salmonella. I always cook it. JMO.

[Shawna]

Stephanie W,

Digestibility of protein is important but bioavailability is even more important. The better the cells of the body use the amino acids in the digested protein, the less BUN is created from the protein. Raw and lightly cooked home prepared foods are going to have better bioavailability than canned and canned will be better than kibbled diets.

Most vets recommend “low” protein diets for dogs in any stage (and sometimes even before) of kidney disease. This is actually a myth and why most prescription foods are not really appropriate for the earlier stages of the disease. What may need to be controlled however is phosphorus so not all foods of good digestibility and bioavailability will be appropriate for all stages of chronic kidney disease. Here’s a VERY reliable source on the low protein myth.
“Mythology of Protein Restriction for Dogs with Reduced Renal Function
Kenneth C. Bovée, DVM, MMedSc, Department of Clinical Studies, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Results of the 10 experimental studies on dogs have failed to provide evidence of the benefit of reduced dietary protein to influence the course of renal failure.” http://www.dogaware.com/files/bovee.pdf

If you are willing to feed raw look at a prescription diet created by vet Dr. Barbara Royal sold by Darwins. Dr. Meg Smart has a homemade kidney diet on her blog. I also like the Wysong diet Red mentions. Just make sure the food you chose has the appropriate amount of phosphorus for the stage of disease your specific dog is in. Unlike protein, phosphorus CAN cause further damage to the kidneys.

Lots of prayers and good luck being sent your way!!!

[InkedMarie]

Hi Delilah,
A wet food is best (canned, raw, dehydrated). For your dogs other issues, a grain and potato free food may be best. I have a yeasty dog & he didn’t get better until I put him on raw (we use ground) with no produce at all.

[CockalierMom]

Yes, raw chicken is correct. I have made chicken jerky for my girls several times in a dehydrator and the oven. The most important thing is that you make sure you slice the chicken as thin and uniform as possible (a little on the frozen side helps). If the pieces are not the same thickness, the dehydrating time varies too much. You will have some that get over crisp while other parts may not be dehydrated enough. My girls prefer chewy rather than crispy. In the dehydrator I use plain chicken breast with no added oil or seasonings. In the oven, I coat the pieces with a little oil.

[Pitlove]

Hi- Take a look at Wysong Epigen 90. It is a chicken based food, however it is completely starch free and is suppose to be excellent for dogs who might have a food intolerance. It seems like you have tried mainly fish based foods. If that is not working he might not be able to tolerate fish. You definitely need to try another protein in his diet. If he does not have a chicken allergy I would highly suggest the Wysong Epigen. The food is made by a vet but it is not a prescription, however he does make presciption dehyrated raw food.

They also have a vension forumla that contains “potato protein”. I will also let you know now that one of the ingredients is meat protein isolate. It is nothing to be concerned about and the meat is pork as stated on Dr. Wysong’s website.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Pitlove.

[crazy4cats]

Hi JM-
Sorry the raw didn’t work out. I’m so impressed with your effort. I gave up after only one or two tries with Nature’s Variety Raw Bites. You must be doing something right considering the age of your old folks home you have going. Lol!

My senior kitty is or will be 16 any day now. She has her ups and downs, but is doing great right now. Happy, happy, joy joy! I do think her eyesight is going a bit though.
In addition to the grocery store stuff, my cats are now eating Dave’s, Halo’s, Nutro Max duck chunks in sauce and Iams canned foods. I gave up on Authority after recipe change. I’m feeding very little kibble and my urinary problem cat is well too.

Good update guys. I wish Akari was still around also. 😿

[jakes mom]

OK guys, time for a raw update. Long story short, I’ve failed. Still only have one cat who will eat it at all. I’ve tried 3 different probiotics. They refuse to eat anything with 2 of the brands mixed in. The third brand has helped with Dustin’s sloppy poos, at least. I’ve tried raw and cooked a bit. I’ve re-read all the tips on raw sites. Watched videos by Dr. Becker about transitioning cats, very interesting if you haven’t seen them. She says cats have addictive personalities, very hard to make changes. Some cats take a year!
I just think my guys, all being geriatric, are too set in their ways. If they were younger I would persevere and keep at it. I’m concerned about them not eating well as they try to avoid any bites of canned that may have a bit of raw mixed in. I’ve weighed them and they’ve all lost a few ounces and that’s not acceptable to me. They’ve made it to ages 15-20 so I guess I won’t rock the boat. Jake will be a happy boy. I will use up the raw I have from this shipment, about 20#, geez! on him, and the one cat who likes it. Dang, really wanted this to work!

[Shawna]

It’s taken me almost 45 minutes to get logged in but I was determined. Had to create a new account but then it seems to have reverted back to my old so….?

Center for Companion Animal Health, UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine
Vol. 8, No. 2, Fall 2003
“A number of bacterial organisms commonly associated with diarrhea in dogs and cats include Salmonella, Campylobacter, Clostridium perfringens and Clostridium difficile.

Veterinarians are faced with a quandary when attempting to diagnose dogs and cats with suspected bacterial-associated diarrhea, because these organisms commonly represent a normal part of the host’s intestinal microflora.” http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ccah/local-assets/pdfs/newsletter_2003_fall.pdf

They’re already in there people. I’m surprised the vets among us aren’t aware of this information?

There are many many vets that recommend a raw, or at least a home prepared, diet. I could name 30 or so off the top of my head that could easily be verified online. But I’ll start with just one – not only is she a vet but she is a veterinary nutritionist and taught veterinary small animal nutrition for over 30 years. Dr. Meg Smart states in an interview on the AngryVet website “I see a benefit in feeding whole foods whether cooked or raw.” http://www.angryvet.com/angryvet-nutrition-interview-drs-joseph-wakshlag-and-meg-smart/ She also discusses and defends raw on her blog.

Dr. Elizabeth Hodkins co-wrote the book “Not Fit for a Dog” with Dr. Smart and one other. Dr. Hodkins used to work for Science Diet. In fact her LinkedIn page says this about her “She taught veterinary parasitology at UC Davis following her residency before leaving academia to join Hills Pet Nutrition for almost a decade.” She taught parasitology and yet she still recommends a raw food diet — INTERESTING… Hmmmm She talks about raw on her website catnutrition.org

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Shawna.

[Cheryl N]

I’ve found several recipes for home made chicken jerky. All but one say to use RAW Chicken and dehydrate it. I just want to be sure that the RAW chicken is correct.

[Cyndi]

I wish your vet was closer to me. I can’t find a good vet that agrees with raw feeding. Except the quack I saw a couple years ago, but I ain’t going back to her, lol!

[DogFoodie]

Oh Cyndi! My vet gets on my case when I see her if I’m NOT feeding raw at the moment! 🙂

[Cyndi]

Yes, thanks for your input, even though it’s wrong. A balanced raw diet is the best you can feed your dog, and I will continue to do so and NOT listen to my vet because most of them don’t know a damn thing about nutrition.

[SkeptVet]

“As far as I know, salmonella isn’t dangerous to dogs, only humans.”
Not true:

Yes, dogs can get salmonellosis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24277916
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC339295/

“I wouldn’t bother asking your vet; chances are he will tell you not to feed raw, which is wrong IMO. Vets get very little education in nutrition.”
So you shouldn’t ask a medical professional for advice if it is likely you will disagree with that advice? Do most pet owners have more “education in nutrition” than vets, or just opinions gleaned from the internet and some books they’ve read? Of course, some like to discount the education vets do have as mere food industry propaganda and the alternative information on the internet as somehow more independent and legitimate, but that’s merely an excuse for dismissing an opinion they don’t like.

What do Veterinarians Know About Nutrition?

[Anonymous]

What you describe sounds like environmental allergies which are more common than food allergies/intolerances. Environmental allergies tend to wax and wane, they get worse as the dog gets older.
I had excellent results after taking my dog to a dermatologist/specialist for skin testing. If the dog is really uncomfortable you may want to start there. I wasted a lot of time going back and forth to the regular vet, trying all kinds of different diets etc
Frequent bathing with Malaseb or GNC Antifungal shampoo for dogs does seem to help in conjunction with other treatments. Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble agrees with her the best.
If you go to the home/forums page here and use the search engine to look up allergies, you will find a ton of posts regarding pet owners going through the same thing.

Helpful article below:
By Klaus Loft, DVM
Angell Dermatology Service

Anyone who suffers debilitating environmental allergies tied to changing seasons, pet dander or household dust mites knows first-hand the misery of a scratchy throat, itchy eyes or painful rashes.

Not everyone knows, however, that our pets can experience similar allergic reactions — and other very bothersome dermatological issues. But our pets need not suffer in silence. Modern veterinary science has evolved such that advanced, comprehensive treatments are now available to treat a range of skin conditions.

Top pet dermatological issues

Our four-legged friends suffer from some of the same skin issues as we do — and several that we do not. The most common conditions we see at Angell include:

•Parasites, such as mites, fleas and mange (scabies)
•Infectious diseases, such as Staphylococcal pyoderma (“Staph”) skin infections, yeast and fungal infections and skin fold infections
•Systemic diseases, such as autoimmune diseases
•Skin cancer, such as Squamous cell carcinoma, cutaneous lymphoma, Mast cell tumors
•Allergies, such as flea allergy dermatitis, adverse food reactions, environmental allergies, etc.

All of these conditions can become serious and, if untreated, dramatically reduce quality of life. But the tremendous strides made in veterinary innovation, however, is very good news for our pets. Specifically, the testing and treatments for allergies now rivals human healthcare in its sophistication, quality of care and long-term health outcomes.

Unlike humans, dogs and cats cannot tell us about their dermatological health issues. So we as pet owners must look for the signs. The most common indicators that a pet is suffering from some kind of allergy involve frequent episodes of ear infections, red raised or open sores on the skin, constant licking or biting of paws or groin — sometimes causing wounds that will not go away.

Allergies present a particular challenge because there can be hundreds (even thousands) of potential allergens that impact pet health, from foods to pollen from grasses, weeds, trees, dust mites and more. Today’s specialty veterinary hospitals have access to the very latest diagnostic tests to get to the bottom of what’s ailing our pet. Among these tests is the Intra Dermal Test (IDT).

IDT is generally considered the gold standard of testing for identifying allergens that cause pets to suffer from chronic skin and/or ear diseases. IDT involves injections of a series of concentrated allergens into the skin to determine which of them generate allergic reactions in a given animal. The use of fluorescein — a chemical that illuminates the inflammation caused by the injected allergens in order to visualize the strength of individual reactions — is key to accurately diagnosing pet allergies, and is just one of the many ways veterinarians use new technologies to improve care and diagnostics.

The results of IDT (as well as a review of the pet’s medical history) can then inform comprehensive immunotherapy treatments to relieve suffering. Veterinary dermatologists rely on IDT to build customized treatment plans for patients called Allergen Specific Immuno Therapy or “ASIT” for short.

ASIT involves a series of injections specifically created for the allergic animal’s skin. These injections, of diluted allergens, are designed to make a pet less sensitive to their allergens over time. In most cases these injections must be continued for life to reduce symptoms, but they are highly effective. Seventy to 90 percent of pets experience a reduction in symptoms as a result of ASIT treatment. These treatments can be delivered even more easily via droplets under the tongue, perfect for pet owners who are squeamish about giving injections to their pet.

This treatment is very new to the North American field of medicine (both human and veterinary) and underscores just how far innovation in veterinary medicine has come.

When it’s time to see the vet

Many pet owners are understandably concerned about taking their animals to the veterinarian because the cost (to say nothing of the fear some animals experience when going do the doctor) may outweigh any perceived reduction in suffering. To help pet owners know when it’s time to bring Fido to the doctor I’ve compiled my “Top Ten” list of dermatological symptoms that should never be ignored:

•Intense itching of the skin (head shaking, running the face into the carpet, furniture, etc.)
•Biting at the skin that creates red, raw crusting areas of the skin
•Multiple ear infections (head shaking, odor from ears, scratching at the ears with hind legs)
•Paw licking or chewing and frequent infections of the skin in the webbed skin of the paws
•Staining of the fur of the paws and nails on multiple feet
•Reoccurring skin infections in the groin, under the shoulders, perianal areas (on or under the tail)
•Greasy scaling skin and/or fur with odorous skin
•Hair loss, or thinning of the fur
•Dark pigmentation of the skin that is chronically infected
•Sudden depigmentation of skin

Allergies and other dermatological issues can be as frustrating for pet owners and their veterinarians as they can be for pets. I encourage any pet owner whose animal is experiencing any of these symptoms to consult with their veterinarian.

[Susan]

Hi re-start the raw diet again, an elimination diet, just feed 1 protein, a meat he hasn’t eaten before & stick with green veggies, broccoli, celery, bok choy, beans etc these veggies must be blended in a blender made into a pulp, I stop the blender just before the veggies are liquid… dogs cant digest raw veggies like us, we chew our food, where dogs just swallow & don’t break down the veggies, that’s why you see corn or carrot in their poo…here’s the maintenance diet my boy was put on thru a Animal Naturopath if you scroll down there’s a Allergy diet…I had to pick 1 protein, 2-4 veggies & 1-2 fruits, I picked kangaroo mince, broccoli, celery, carrot & a apple, to start with, peel all veggies cut up then put thru a mini processor….I feed 1 cup meat & 2 spoons of the blended veggie/fruit mix 1/2 capsule probiotic dairy free, 1/2 capsule digestive enzyme added to the meal…then later you can add fish oil capsule
… I froze the left over veggie/fruit mix in 2 spoon sections & was told don’t mix thru the meat & freeze, freeze separate & just take out the night before, my boy weights 37lb so he was eating 1 cup Kangaroo & 2 spoons veggie/fruit mix for breakfast & the same for dinner… I’d stop the egg & chicken, my boy got red hot paws after trying chicken & egg, that’s why its best you add just 1 new food a week, so you will know what food he is reacting too…. http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/natural-diet.html
for the rash I bath in Malaseb medicated shampoo every 5-7 days while they have the rash or itch & you leave shampoo on for 5-10mins the Malaseb relieves the skin….

[Anonymous]

You didn’t mention how old your dog is? What you describe sounds like environmental allergies which are more common than food allergies/intolerances. Environmental allergies tend to wax and wane, they get worse as the dog gets older.
I had excellent results after taking my dog to a dermatologist/specialist for skin testing. If the dog is really uncomfortable you may want to start there. I wasted a lot of time going back and forth to the regular vet, trying all kinds of different diets etc, frequent bathing with Malaseb or GNC Antifungal shampoo for dogs does seem to help in conjunction with other treatments.
If you go to the home/forums page here and use the search engine to look up allergies, you will find a ton of posts regarding pet owners going through the same thing.

Helpful article below:
By Klaus Loft, DVM
Angell Dermatology Service

Anyone who suffers debilitating environmental allergies tied to changing seasons, pet dander or household dust mites knows first-hand the misery of a scratchy throat, itchy eyes or painful rashes.

Not everyone knows, however, that our pets can experience similar allergic reactions — and other very bothersome dermatological issues. But our pets need not suffer in silence. Modern veterinary science has evolved such that advanced, comprehensive treatments are now available to treat a range of skin conditions.

Top pet dermatological issues

Our four-legged friends suffer from some of the same skin issues as we do — and several that we do not. The most common conditions we see at Angell include:

•Parasites, such as mites, fleas and mange (scabies)
•Infectious diseases, such as Staphylococcal pyoderma (“Staph”) skin infections, yeast and fungal infections and skin fold infections
•Systemic diseases, such as autoimmune diseases
•Skin cancer, such as Squamous cell carcinoma, cutaneous lymphoma, Mast cell tumors
•Allergies, such as flea allergy dermatitis, adverse food reactions, environmental allergies, etc.

All of these conditions can become serious and, if untreated, dramatically reduce quality of life. But the tremendous strides made in veterinary innovation, however, is very good news for our pets. Specifically, the testing and treatments for allergies now rivals human healthcare in its sophistication, quality of care and long-term health outcomes.

Unlike humans, dogs and cats cannot tell us about their dermatological health issues. So we as pet owners must look for the signs. The most common indicators that a pet is suffering from some kind of allergy involve frequent episodes of ear infections, red raised or open sores on the skin, constant licking or biting of paws or groin — sometimes causing wounds that will not go away.

Allergies present a particular challenge because there can be hundreds (even thousands) of potential allergens that impact pet health, from foods to pollen from grasses, weeds, trees, dust mites and more. Today’s specialty veterinary hospitals have access to the very latest diagnostic tests to get to the bottom of what’s ailing our pet. Among these tests is the Intra Dermal Test (IDT).

IDT is generally considered the gold standard of testing for identifying allergens that cause pets to suffer from chronic skin and/or ear diseases. IDT involves injections of a series of concentrated allergens into the skin to determine which of them generate allergic reactions in a given animal. The use of fluorescein — a chemical that illuminates the inflammation caused by the injected allergens in order to visualize the strength of individual reactions — is key to accurately diagnosing pet allergies, and is just one of the many ways veterinarians use new technologies to improve care and diagnostics.

The results of IDT (as well as a review of the pet’s medical history) can then inform comprehensive immunotherapy treatments to relieve suffering. Veterinary dermatologists rely on IDT to build customized treatment plans for patients called Allergen Specific Immuno Therapy or “ASIT” for short.

ASIT involves a series of injections specifically created for the allergic animal’s skin. These injections, of diluted allergens, are designed to make a pet less sensitive to their allergens over time. In most cases these injections must be continued for life to reduce symptoms, but they are highly effective. Seventy to 90 percent of pets experience a reduction in symptoms as a result of ASIT treatment. These treatments can be delivered even more easily via droplets under the tongue, perfect for pet owners who are squeamish about giving injections to their pet.

This treatment is very new to the North American field of medicine (both human and veterinary) and underscores just how far innovation in veterinary medicine has come.

When it’s time to see the vet

Many pet owners are understandably concerned about taking their animals to the veterinarian because the cost (to say nothing of the fear some animals experience when going do the doctor) may outweigh any perceived reduction in suffering. To help pet owners know when it’s time to bring Fido to the doctor I’ve compiled my “Top Ten” list of dermatological symptoms that should never be ignored:

•Intense itching of the skin (head shaking, running the face into the carpet, furniture, etc.)
•Biting at the skin that creates red, raw crusting areas of the skin
•Multiple ear infections (head shaking, odor from ears, scratching at the ears with hind legs)
•Paw licking or chewing and frequent infections of the skin in the webbed skin of the paws
•Staining of the fur of the paws and nails on multiple feet
•Reoccurring skin infections in the groin, under the shoulders, perianal areas (on or under the tail)
•Greasy scaling skin and/or fur with odorous skin
•Hair loss, or thinning of the fur
•Dark pigmentation of the skin that is chronically infected
•Sudden depigmentation of skin

Allergies and other dermatological issues can be as frustrating for pet owners and their veterinarians as they can be for pets. I encourage any pet owner whose animal is experiencing any of these symptoms to consult with their veterinarian.

[Smokey Dog]

We’ve had our dog a week and have been trying to transition him into a partially raw diet. I have fed him chicken, eggs, yogurt, spinach, and BLUE dog kibble the last couple days. He has had an allergic reaction, but I’m not sure if it’s from something in the grass in the backyard or because of his food. He doesn’t itch that much but he has small to large red spots on his paws, stomach, and ears. We thought it was going away, until last night when he seemed to have an especially bad reaction to something (I had recently fed him part of a raw Perdue chicken). Could anyone give me some advice?

(PS he also hasn’t had solid stool since we got him, but I’m not sure if that’s just because he is transitioning from one food to a different type of food)

[Smokey Dog]

We’ve had our dog a week and have been trying to transition him into a partially raw diet. I have fed him chicken, eggs, yogurt, spinach, and BLUE dog kibble the last couple days. He has had an allergic reaction, but I’m not sure if it’s from something in the grass in the backyard or because of his food. He doesn’t itch that much but he has small to large red spots on his paws, stomach, and ears. We thought it was going away, until last night when he seemed to have an especially bad reaction to something (I had recently fed him part of a Perdue chicken). Could anyone give me some advice?

(PS he also hasn’t had solid stool since we got him, but I’m not sure if that’s just because he is transitioning from one food to a different type of food)

[Smokey Dog]

We’ve had our dog a week and have been trying to transition him into a partially raw diet. I have fed him chicken, eggs, yogurt, spinach, and BLUE dog kibble the last couple days. He has had an allergic reaction, but I’m not sure if it’s from something in the grass in the backyard or because of his food. He doesn’t itch that much but he has small to large red spots on his paws, stomach, and ears. We thought it was going away, until last night when he seemed to have an especially bad reaction to something (I had recently fed him part of a Perdue chicken). Could anyone give me some advice?

[Smokey Dog]

I have a pit mix who I recently adopted and have a couple questions about going raw. Lately I have been feeding him one part BLUE salmon kibble, to one part raw chicken. I also have been including 2 eggs, yogurt, and spinach to some of his kibble. I cannot afford anything more expensive than chicken for another month or two, so will my dog be able to thrive on a half raw diet that is mostly chicken? Also, he has had some problems with his stool, and I was reading that some dogs do not react well to too much yogurt and raw spinach. Is that true/common?

[zcRiley]

ZiwiPeak Lamb formula, raw dehydrated. Requires no mixing or freezing. Has zero fillers, balanced vitamins.

[Cheryl F]

I just was able to contact a local butcher who supplies USDA meats for human consumption. They are also offering quite a number of items that I already feed my dogs, that I have to pay shipping/packaging for and has greatly increased the costs for me. Being able to buy fresh meat from a local butcher means that not only am I getting very good quality food, but also that I’m not being charged for additional packaging or shipping is a huge bonus. We will now be able to trim our monthly costs for feeding our animals (4 medium sized dogs) from $500./month to about $200-250./month.

For the specialty grinds such as green tripe, trachea and gullet, chicken w/organ meat, beef w/organ meat – i will still purchase from online shops.

By having a local butcher means that I can control how much food i have to store by not needing to order in bulk to offset shipping charges, and having a readily available stock local that I can drive to replenish my supply.

Sharon B – my vet’s office has several vets employed there. When I was on a business trip my husband took our puppy in for routine puppy care exam and the vet tried to scare my husband about ecoli and salmonella with the raw diet. Fact is, humans get those issues a LOT more than dogs can. Their stomachs are stronger than ours and we are more susceptible than them. Employing good hygiene and common sense is a must when handling any meat – whether it be for human or canine consumption. None of my dogs have ever gotten salmonella or ecoli from raw diet and i have ‘collectively’ been feeding this way for about 12 years.

Hope that helps.

Cheryl

[Marta W]

Mary we’ve been or raw for a month this week, so maybe she could have new protein.
i am thinking beef or pork mixes. Also i was going to get her turkey necks separate.

DO you know if feeding that is all she needs or should i give her some supplements?
RIght now her food has veggies mixed in but she wont have that with Pawfectly Raw.

[InkedMarie]

the ones under the “protein” link are grinds that contain bone. I told her that I thought she should have “bone” listed to make it easier.
No, I had no trouble ordering. I feed the grinds with bone but I also feed duck necks (getting a case of those from Pawfectly).

how long has your dog been on chicken? My “raw guru” who helps me said to go a month on one protein (or as close to a month as you can) then try another protein. Dogs should have more red meat than poultry: beef, venison, lamb, pork (in this case, it’s not the other white meat LOL) etc.

[Dori]

I have three toy dogs. Maltese, Maltipoo and a Yorkipoo. I have been feeding them commercial raw frozen diets for the past 4 years and are all doing phenomenally well. I feed twice a day each getting between 2.5 & 3 % of their weight broken up into two meals. I use a cheap digital kitchen scale that I bought on Amazon. For treats I give them bits of fruits and veggies. No pits or seeds in anything, please. I don’t feed any grains, soy, corn, potatoes, rice or poultry (one of my girls is intolerant of all fowl). I feed all three high protein, moderate to high quality fats and low carbs. Oh, for size comparison, Maltese weighs 7.3 lbs., Maltipoo weighs 6 lbs. and my Yorkipoo weighs 5 lbs. Keep in mind that when you feed commercial frozen raws though initially they may seem expensive, you feed less than when feeding kibble. My soon to be 16 years old Maltese acts like she’s more like 6 or 7 years old. The other two are 6 years old and think they are still 2 year olds and act like it too. Which is a good thing. Also keep in mind the savings that you get also from not being at the vet everytime you turn around with some ailment or other. My two 6 year olds go once a year for physicals and my almost 16 year old goes every 6 months for senior blood work and physicals.

[Alasdair D]

Hi Sharon,

Thanks for the input – the information on flax seed is new to me. I don’t grind them myself and I hadn’t read previously that there would be no benefit if they weren’t freshly milled. I use them for a source of Omega 3, but may have to rethink if pre milled has no benefit. I do feed the girls sardines once a week, so they get plenty of fish oil anyway.

As for the chicken mince, I am lucky in that I have a poultry company nearby and am also friends with our local butcher. So they will just grind up chicken carcasses and add a bit of offal for me. I normally get about 50lbs at a time and they will freeze it in bulk then band saw it into 1lb chunks that I store in the freezer.

In terms of cost, this is pretty cheap for me – it costs less than £4 a day to feed both dogs raw and they are pretty big dogs. Mind you, deerhounds are very lean and don’t really eat a huge amount anyway. ( I am in the UK, so that may be expensive for you, but it’s cheaper than a good quality kibble here)

Personally, I don’t use any kibble at all. Just the raw food, plus some table scraps and even with the scraps I pretty much give them just the protein and fats with very little carbohydrates.

[gigi s]

I too have 2 Coton De Tulears. One is 11 and the other is 3 months old. The older dog eats, Ziwi Peak and Archetype burgers and Natures Instinct raw and boiled chicken

The puppy came with food from the breeder – all natures instinct. I am cutting out the freeze dried kibble and just giving her the Natures Instint frozen raw Chicken or Lamb mixed with Flee Free and vitamins and a little fresh boiled chicken and a few Ziwi peak pieces to introduce her to that brand.

They also get other vitamins and buly sticks and Bravo freeze died turkey hearts and venison liver and chicken breast and turkey breasts

What do you think?

[InkedMarie]

Sharon,
PawfectlyRawNE.com is up & running; I placed my first order thru them last week.

I don’t grind my own, I’m too lazy and most grinders that you can buy can’t grind beef bones.

There have been more problems for salmonella in kibble. Do you or have you ever eaten meat for yourself or prepare meat for your family? Raw dog food is just meat. If you touch meat, this is no different. I feed grinds so I don’t touch it, I use a spoon.

I can’t afford all grass fed meat for us and can’t do it for the dog, not all the time. If you buy your dogs kibble, dehydrated, cannned, etc it’s not the “good stuff”. IMO you do the best you can. I feed a combo of grinds from Pawfectly (well, I will soon!), Reel Raw and Hare Today.

[sharon b]

Inked Marie, sorry, I am in Windham NH, and Vincent, and the other Gentleman, can’t see your name, I can’t get a list of prices either. Website still being built, If you could e-mail or forward, I would greatly be appreciated @ [email protected].
Has anyone ever had a dog get really sick, or die from salmonella or e-coli? I read a thread where a man lost his 9 $ 1/2 y/o dog. I have a weak immune system and although I will glove up, I am a little concerned. Also mentioned on a thread for advice on my raw diet, For those of you that do your own grinding, how? Do you have a special grinder? My pup is going to be 150+ pounds, so this is not going to be inexpensive, but I know it’s the best for him. just trying to find the most economical way. What about hormones in store meat, does that concern anyone, or do commercial companies avoid them, or do we not know. Darwin’s did list a grass fed price list. Sorry, so many questions from the newbie.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by sharon b.

[sharon b]

switched thread to advice on my raw diet