[anonymous]

Well, there is a thin line between itchy areas and irritated skin vs red, raw open areas, infected sores.

Often pet owners can’t tell the difference..

Without a diagnosis you don’t know what you are treating and can make a condition worse by applying a home remedy.

I say this because I have done it, applied a home remedy and ended up at the emergency veterinary clinic.

Maybe these home remedies work for a minor cut/abrasion. But allergies can be a very serious condition and often require the expertise of a veterinary health care professional and/or specialist.

PS. I apologize if I offended you. I may have misunderstood your comment.

Peace

[ray q]

My favorite food is Honest Kitchen dehydrated base mix. You add your own protein so choose whatever kind of meat you want you can even go raw. So since it sounds like you have a working dog I recommend a lot of meat. But before you do check with your vet in regards to how much protein you should add.

[Linda C]

Our now 6 month old Bernese Mountain Dog is sensitive to chicken and I feel your pain. So many foods contain chicken in some form or another, even if it’s not shown as the first ingredient, so I feel your pain. Our breeder (and our vet confirmed and explained) started our pup off immediately on adult food rather than puppy food because puppy foods contain ingredients that promote faster growth (which is unwanted in a large breed dog). We didn’t find a large Breed food brand that didn’t contain chicken.

After many missteps, we’ve settled on Acana Lamb and Apple. It’s a limited ingredient food and our Billie is doing very well on it. There are (I think) four different protein sources to choose from. We don’t feed raw or canned so I can’t offer a suggestion there.

Good luck, I know it’s frustrating.

[Cynthia K]

Trying to find a chicken free food for large breed puppy. Would like dry, canned and raw recommendations. Using earthborn venture but is labeled maintenance. Usimg rawz canned and vital essential raw duck patties
She also has had 2 ear infections..

[anonymous]

Some allergens are airborne, like I said, impossible to avoid.
In the summer these allergy dogs do best in air conditioning.
At one point I had an air purifier and a dehumidifier going (all went to the Goodwill), even tried raw food (disgusting and caused an emergency vet visit) absolutely nothing worked till she saw the dermatologist.
I also had countless shampoos and creams going on, all a waste of money.
The Malaseb did nothing until it was used in conjunction with other treatments prescribed by the specialist.
Allergies are very complicated and every dog is different.

Here is a good article about what you might be looking at, keep in mind there are even newer treatment options than when this article was written
http://www.nevetdermatology.com/canine-atopic-dermatitis-treatment/

[anonymous]

There are thousand of allergens and some are present all year round. For example, the microscopic household dust mite that is present on the skin of all living things including you.
Cotton, wool, dust……..the list is endless. Avoidance is impossible.
I would wait to talk to the vet before you buy the Malaseb as it is pricey and the vet may have a different shampoo he prefers.
In the meantime, any gentle puppy shampoo will do. But is the skin is raw and bleeding it may be best to leave it alone till it heals up, as the bathing may increase irritation.
The vet may want to start the dog on a prednisone taper, this is often necessary to stop the suffering and give the immune system a rest. Short term it will help, not cause harm.
Also, antibiotics may be prescribed to prevent infection. The more you reveal, the more I’m thinking this dog needs a VETERINARY DERMATOLOGIST.

[Misti W]

You guys are so awesome! Thank you for all of this advice. I have never heard of Malasab before but it sounds like we could Definitely use it for her sweet little paws 🙁

Over the last night she has licked between her toes completely raw. I try so hard to relieve her sore itchy paws and curb her licking with a lot of success but it seems like the allergy has been worse than ever this week! It’s so confusing because our area is -8 degrees, completely snow covered, I keep my house super clean, wash all my dog bedding once a week. I just don’t understand what allergen she is coming into contact with. The only other thing i can possibly think of is our laundry soap (Unscented, dye free ALL)! But in that case wouldn’t the reaction be all over her body?

I’m at my wits end. I cannot wait to see the vet tomorrow and see what his recommendation is. He will probably refer us to an allergy/skin specialist but at this point i just want answers and relief for my dog. 🙁 Sorry I’m just a mess on this thread haha!

[Susan]

Hi Misti,
yes start with a Limited Ingredient food that has 1 novel protein & 1 carb she hasnt really eaten before there’s “California Natural” Lamb & Rice it has just 3 ingredients or there’s “Natural Balance” Sweet Potato & Fish or Sweet Potato & Bison, Sweet Potato & Duck the NB is very similar to the Vet diet Hills D/D Potato & Duck or the D/D Potato & Venison also Royal Canin has their Select Protein formula’s Potato & Rabbit, Potato & Salmon but the Natural Balance is cheaper then the vet diets, or look at “Canidae Pure” formula’s the Pure Sea is really good for skin problems, it’s high in Omega 3 fatty acid what’s needed for the skin problems..
The vet will probably put her on a steriod (Predisone) this is just a bandaid as soon as you stop the steriod it will all come back & he’ll probably put her on a vet diet & a medicated shampoo so maybe first try the LID Premium dog food, do weekly baths in Malaseb shampoo & wash her paws twice a week in the Malaseb & use the Sudocrem morning before she goes outside & at night before bed I also use “Hydrocortisone 1%” cream on Patches paws just before he goes to bed I check out his whole body & see where is red & lightly apply the Hydrocortisone cream & use a cotten tip to apply inbetween his toes where’s red by morning he has no redness paws are nice & pink then I apply teh Sudocrem before he goes out teh door, chicken, barley, oats, tapioca all make Patches paws red 20mins after eating these ingredient….. Keep a diary & start writing everything down & over the years you will start to see a pattern, I have a rescue who has IBD, Seasonal Environment allergies & food sensitivities & he gets the red paws, itchy smelly skin from certain foods, I bath him in Malaseb medicated shampoo weekly, the Malaseb is excellent, relieves the redness stops their itchy paws & skin & puts moisture back into their skin, when you bath them you wash away any allergens on their skin & paws etc also the snow?? when Patch walks on wet grass the morning dew or its been raining more then 2 days he also gets his red sore paws I have a small towel near the front & back door & I wipe down his paws if its raining I also buy teh Baby wipes & use them as well try & get some “Sudocrem” sold on Amazon this is what we use in Australia & the UK, the Sudocrem a healing cream for Dermatitis, Excema, Nappy Rash etc & it repells water & protects the paws & skin from allergens, I cant up load photos I have of a Staffy that had a really bad red stomach & then her owner got the Sudocrem & the dog stomach was all clear the next day, can you afford the Pre made raw? maybe try a premade raw instead of a dry kibble…
also are you on Face Book? join this group, “Dog Allergies, Issues & Other Information Support Group” its a really good group & good info & a Dermatologist frequents the group.
Misti will get better but you need have a strict routine when doing the food trial, with time it gets easier but allergies dont go away they get worse as they age, she probably is like Patch & has both Seasonal Environment allergies (worse in the Spring/Summer months) & Food Sensititivies so best to start now & you’ll work out what she can & cant eat, it the snow/water makes her paws worse she might ned some type of shoe Patch wouldnt wear shoes so I use the Sudocrem it repells, allergens, the water & wet grass, Good Luck

[Amy b]

Thanks again pitlove!

Unfortunately, I didn’t see your post until after I settled on a food; I went with Natures Variety, Rawboost Large Breed puppy. I did as you suggested and contacted the company about the calcium and phosphorus levels. They told me that calcium was 1.6 and phosphorus was 1.0. And 4317 kcal/kg.

I calculated this:
Calcium = 3.7 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.6 to 1

If I read this correctly, it seems to be in a good range. We started the change over last night and our pup, Max, loved it! I’m just hoping it starts this way.
The only thing I’m unsure of is the ingredient Sodium Selenite. I understand that it is a controversial ingredient. I reached out to NV and asked why they don’t use Selenium yeast and the rep didn’t know. She just gave me all of the positive reasons it is used…

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

There is lots of GOOD information on these forums. What are you currently feeding her? Start by finding something that is a single source protein, or at the very least remove corn and chicken first. I usually like something with duck to start with.

The poster above does not believe food allergies exist, so you’re likely to get the same answer from them each time. At least 75% of the people who described your issue has seen results with a change in food. I would however talk to your vet and see if there’s anything you can do for immediate relief especially if the dog is itching itself raw.

[pitlove]

Unfortunetly, being a breeder doesn’t mean you understand how to feed the pups you are producing correctly, no matter how many years you’ve been doing it. And not many pet store workers are truly knowledgable about nutrition. They mainly learn about what the trends are in pet foods and learn the marketing claims and roll with that to sell a product.

The ingredient list as it reads out on the back of the bag, tells you next to nothing about the quality of the food. It tells you what should be in the food, but not the quality of the raw materials used to make the food. Focus on the company is far more important.

When I choose a pet food for a large breed puppy, several things are important to me. I want a company that conducts their own research, I want a company that staffs vet nutritionists, I want a company with strict manufacturing protocols, and I want a company that does feeding trials. Those companies are going to be the companies most people think are “terrible”. My number one choice for a large breed puppy food will always be Purina Pro Plan. Purina dedicates millions of dollars every year researching large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition.

After that would be Hill’s or Royal Canin, but if someone were to be truly against one of those companies, I would say Fromm, NutriSource or Precise.

[Tyla M]

The Fromm’s website is great for detailed analyses on the different brands. It shows you both calcium levels, as well as the other information. Seems pretty good, but starting to think about if I should try raw? I want hard proof that it is much better for pups and will give a healthier, longer life! Oh the decisions!!

[Jessica J]

Ahhhhh…. so glad I stumbled across this thread. As a store manager of a grooming salon & pet boutique, I literally spend my day surrounded by high quality dog food and have successfully advised countless dog owners. I have spent hours respectfully arguing against the “my vet says Science Diet” is the best food argument. My 8 year old Australian Labradoodle has mostly eaten Acana or the Fromm 4-Star GF line. She’s a finicky one and tends to prefer the Fromm. Well… 3 weeks ago a friend of a friend found a baby Lab on the side of the road. Cold, slightly malnourished, and scared. After confirming that nobody was looking for this sweet little lost soul… I made her a permanent member of my family. In desperation the first night I got her, I brought home a bag of Orijen Puppy kibble and Primal Raw Goats Milk. My only thought being that this little girl needed some good nutrition asap. After a week of thriving but with loose explosive poops, I realized that the Orijen was probably a little too rich for her belly. So I did a little research and checked some numbers and trusted my intuition- and put her on the same Fromm kibble my Doodle eats. She is gaining a perfect 2lbs a day, solid stools, looks great, etc. I have occasionally supplemented with a little Primal Raw Goats Milk. Saw the new vet at my beloved practice today and was chastised and lectured that she should be on a Large Breed Puppy food so that she doesn’t end up a dysplastic disaster at a young age. Then I came home and found this thread as well as confirmed for myself that the numbers hit where I wanted them to. Thank you for the knowledgeable common sense advice and all your wisdom!!

[haleycookie]

Protein levels don’t affect how puppies grow and there’s no real proof they affect kidneys in any negative way in a healthy dog. So there’s nothing wrong with nv puppy or Orijen puppy. As for the merrick have you tired adding water? Or toppers? Toppers can be anything from raw meats, plain cooked meats, or canned or pouched dog foods. It’s a good way to entice them. Also make sure your meals are scheduled the same times. I have a chocolate lab in the family. He eats canidae all life stages multi protein food and he eats at 6 am and 6pm everyday at the same time. If you’re lab is rejecting food it’s very possible he doesn’t like it. Most labs will inhale anything lol.

[amy r]

Hi I have a newf who is about 130 lbs we have done fromm large breed gold from almost the beginning I tried other foods briefly and always went back to fromm. I also add in 500mg vit.c and 2400mg of fish oil. I do add toppers sardu rd salmon frozen veggies raw egg sweet pot (also raw apple yogurt and rotate them all regularly. Her coat is amazing as us her overall health.

[Rick W]

Hi,

I’ve been doing a lot of research on food for our new puppy. He is an F1B Goldendoodle and is about 3.5 months old. He will probably end up around 70-80 pounds based on his parents. I currently have him on Fromm’s Heartland Large Breed Puppy kibble. It’s grain-free and based on what I could read, seemed to be better than others. I’m on here now because I’m noticing his poop is formed at first and then towards the end if very runny (gross, I know). All his vet checks have been fine. Just wondering what your thoughts are on if this is food related. I’ve tried to check out raw feeding, but I just can’t do it on our own and it’s too expensive to purchase, especially has he gets bigger.

Thoughts?

In case you need it, here are the ingredients for the food we are feeding: Beef,Pork Meat Meal, Peas, Lentils, Chickpeas, Potatoes, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Whole Egg, Pork Liver, Pork Fat, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Lamb, Cheese, Sweet Potatoes, Brewers Dried Yeast, Alfalfa Meal, Carrots, Lettuce, Celery, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Chicory Root Extract, Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Tryptophan, DL-Methionine, Sodium Selenite, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics

[lisa p]

I am a pet stylist and 2nd generation dog trainer/behaviorist as such I have been around dogs and am very knowledgeable..with that being said I recommend more fat in in your dogs diet.
You may accomplish this by feeding raw bones or my personal favorite to ad fat fast is cow tripe sold in cans for dogs.
Best of luck!

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

Is Natural Balance sweet potato and venison still being made? I know there have been venison sourcing issues this year in some areas. Many people I know have done well on it.
Susan, does wet food ever help dogs with pancreatitis or IBD? The reason I ask is because her dog is smaller and it probably wouldn’t be too much of a headache to have it on an all wet diet. My big guy, Zeek, Shepherd mix, can eat kibble just fine (but serious gas on sweet potato foods I’ve done.) tyrion, the bitty dog, gets very constipated on kibble so I do all canned, raw, or freeze dried. I’ve tried all kibble varieties with him from Orijen to Natural Balance, TOTW, Canidae, Fromm, earthborn, etc.

Would canned help the opposite issue?

[Colleen R]

Hi!
New poster here looking for some opinions/ My 11 yr old dog (55 lbs) pit/pointer mix was recently diagnosed with PLN.

The vet said she will need to be on a prescription diet the rest of her life and medication. The food is expensive. I put her on Hills K/d and she hates the dry so I bought her the wet food which she eats just fine, but reading some articles about prescription diets I’m wondering if this is a scam. I would be spending $1600/year on her food if I keep giving her canned. Does anyone have experience with this disease? I’m open to feeding her a raw diet too. I just find it outrageous to spend that much on her prescription food and wondering if it’s all a scam and I could get the same results from a raw diet….I do need to talk to my vet about this and I may even get a second opinion. Any feedback is much appreciated!

[Susan L]

I have been feeding dogs raw meat for approximately 15 years. Only once has a dog had sensitivity to food or the environment. But I have learned over the years that most dogs can be desensitized, or cured as it were, of most allergies. But it takes time.

The dog with the environmental allergies (diagnosed with blood test) broke out in sores & itched like crazy. I believe it was brought or activated by a rabies vaccination. I soaked the sores thoroughly & rubbed off the scabs to prevent infection. I used TrizCHLOR 4 shampoo which was very soothing. Gave her 1 drop of Thuja for 1 week, followed by 1 week of Silica 30c place on the gum area next to her cheek (retreated her 3 weeks later). I also gave her Livton Liver Cleanse by Standard Process- which can be found on Amazon (for humans & dogs) for 2 months initially. It was so effective I currently use it for 1 month every 6 months on all my dogs.

I switched all raw food to “cool” or ‘Neutral” foods for the sensitive dog with great results. Chicken is warm, lamb & venison the hottest meat. Some sites & vets characterize turkey as a neutral meat, some a cool meat– I have found it fits more accurately in the cool category. Other cool meats are duck, most white fish & rabbit. Pork, eggs, sardines, tuna, tripe, quail are in the neutral category. I also fed leafy & regular veggies from the neutral & cool category as well. (I feed pork raw to all of my dogs & have for years, trichinosis has been bred out of pigs– but if you like freeze it for 2-3 weeks).

It did not happen over night, but after 2 months of treatment & the food change i was able to take the dog back to dog parks which had allergens she tested positive to: Cottonwood trees, grasses etc and she did well– if she later itched it stopped with a bath. After 4 months she can go, roll on the ground, pick up & chew twigs from the trees she tested as “allegic” to and no more problems. Luckily her hair grew back–and she is a bounding, happy, 1 and a 1/2 year old dog with no symptoms of allergies of any kind.

[Sara G]

Thank you, that is very helpful. I was looking for a food that I could feed both my dogs, and Victor recommended this one. However, I realize now that they are totally different and therefore likely need different food. My other dog is a highly rambunctious, scrawny boxer (1-1/2 years old; Boxer Beagle is 4 y.o.). He leaps and bounds and never puts on weight and if we aren’t careful, he can be too thin. So I think I better look for two different foods. Thanks so much for your input, really very helpful. Merry Christmas!

[patty m]

I’m trying to find a solution to a problem of the mess when I am hacking up raw meat for my dogs. I am a long time raw feeder, but recently moved into a new home that has an open counter top. It’s open to the living area. I will chop up large turkey wings or turkey necks with a cleaver to split them up between my two dogs. This hacking at the meat pieces causes a splatter. In my previous home, this would splash up on the back splash where I could clean it off. Now the space I have to place my cutting board is open to the living area. Does anyone have any grand ideas of how to block the splatter? I first searched for cutting board splash guard, thinking that someone may have already invented some sort of useful tool to use in these situations but it only came back with results for kitchen back splash.
So far, my only idea I had was to duct tape together two flexible kitchen cutting mats together so they are at 90 degree angle and place them upright on the backside of my cutting board to block the splatter, but i would prefer something I could put in the dishwasher.

[Jane E]

Let me initially state that I have never had personal experience with a dog with lupus. I have had other auto immune issues in dogs however (currently a Cushings dog and in the past Addison’s). In my experience I have found turkey to be the best tolerated across the board and lamb being one of the most problematic on the GI system. This is over many years in dogs with a variety of issues. I like Natures Logic ,Horizon and Pure Vita. I love Ziwi Peak but they don’t have a turkey but they are an excellent company with the highest of standards. If you are even flirting with the idea of feeding raw get in touch with Answers Pet Food…they are gold standard and are very well versed in nutrition and what can help a dog,speak to Jacqueline

[Jordan C]

Hello all,
I am new to making my own raw dog food but have been feeding my pup raw since forever. I got my new grinder today and saw all the extra sausage attachments. I have always hated dealing with a raw pile of slop and was wondering what would be wrong with stuffing organic sheep or cow intestines with raw food? Eventually make raw dog sausages? I haven’t seen this anywhere before so I assume there must be something wrong with it

[Rose G]

We’ve had a Rottweiler who initially was fed whatever my husband (single at the time) fed him…crazy stuff Probably dog chow and table scraps and he lived for 16 years. He died of, we believe diabetes.

A Brussels griffen, who also ate dog kibble for the most part but was also growing up at the point that people where not paying as much attention and the melanmie issue came up. Then we switched to better dog food, probably higher protein the last 5 years of his life. He only lived for 10 years and died of liver cancer.

A Brittany, who was also fed similarly to the brussels griffen and we just had to put her down in July because of cushing disease, she had also gone blind a year prior. She was 12.

I keep reading and reading about dog food and get so confused…raw/high protein/low protein/no grains/with grains…it is overwhelming to try and figure out what is best for my dogs healthy life. We now have a 5 year old/45 lb shepherd mix and an 8 lb 2 year old mix of some sort of shitzu/brussels…truly Heinz 57.

[Cannoli]

When I used to feed my dog raw I would call and ask the company if their supply chain and production process have been reviewed by the FDA to earn the Human Grade distinction. Human Grade means ‘food grade’, ‘edible’, or fit for human consumption.

But none did. So I opted out.

[Amanda R]

Hello all. I’m the main content creator at Holistic Pet Radio. We started out as a podcast and have since begun making YouTube videos geared towards newcomers to the raw feeding movement. Our first video is all about how to choose a commercially prepared raw food. I run through some questions to ask, such as did the animals have access to the outdoors (in relation to Vitamin D deficiency concerns).

Link: https://goo.gl/yUhQcX

I am hoping to get some feedback from some experienced raw feeders on our content and suggestions for things you would like to see us address. Any input is welcome! Thank you!

[Cannoli]

Anon101-I think she is cooking the salmon first (poaching) but agree with you feeding raw fish is no good.

Although I do indulge in sushi grade sashimi, which once in a full moon I give to my dog and myself. But I get this from a reputable Japanese restaurant that knows how long and at what temperature to freeze their fish.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by Cannoli.

[anonymous]

https://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/outreach/Pet-Health-Topics/categories/diseases/salmon-poisoning (excerpt below, click on link for full article)
This information is not meant to be a substitute for veterinary care. Always follow the instructions provided by your veterinarian. 
Fishing can be wonderful recreation, but sharing the catch with your dog can be an act of kindness that kills. 
Salmon Poisoning Disease is a potentially fatal condition seen in dogs that eat certain types of raw fish. Salmon (salmonid fish) and other anadromous fish (fish that swim upstream to breed) can be infected with a parasite called Nanophyetus salmincola. Overall, the parasite is relatively harmless. The danger occurs when the parasite itself is infected with a rickettsial organism called Neorickettsia helminthoeca. It’s this microorganism that causes salmon poisoning. 
“Salmon poisoning occurs most commonly west of the Cascade mountain range,” says  Dr. Bill Foreyt, a veterinary parasitologist at Washington State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine. He adds, “Canids (dogs) are the only species susceptible to salmon poisoning. That’s why cats, raccoons and bears eat raw fish regularly with out consequence.” 
Generally clinical signs appear within six days of a dog eating an infected fish.

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

I have several customers who swear by Under the Sun Whitefish for anal gland problems. My own dog did well on Canidae Pure before I switched him to raw, and he consistently had anal gland problems at the foster’s house while being fed Earthborn. I’ve also heard of good results with people using Super Snouts balance GI or NaturVet No Scoot as a supplement.

[Tom M]

We need more people posting about their dogs & how old they were, what food the ate.

I have 2 Lab mix males, they are on canidae all life stage kibble, both are 5 years old
so far their healthy.

Years ago we had a Pointer that was fed Raw meat & bones only, he lived until 10 years.

[Bonnie M]

My 12 year old beagle basset hound mix is also a very picky eater and when I found this food Honestly Bare she gobbled it up just like you all have commented. As I was reading I noticed this product was made by Purina. My dog eats the Honestly Bare, Slow-cooked Tenders, the Chicken Apple & Sweet Potato formula, but it has “Beef Glycerine” & the “natural hickory smoke flavor” powder which are not good and is probably the reason why she gobbles it up.

I too have tried too many types and brands to even name including raw brands like Stella and Chewy’s, Darwin’s, etc, but she hated the raw and would refuse to eat for almost 2 days at a time. However, I was told to stay the course and when she gets hungry she will eat. I also had her on Acana and Orijen dry Foods but of course she only liked the ones that were too high in either fat or protein for her that gave her diarrhea. So I too have spent a fortune trying different types of dog food. I also tried Ziwi Peak and she liked it but it is too expensive for my budget.

I also put a request in to have this food reviewed. I just became a member about 2 hours ago and I am so excited to gain wisdom and insight about the dog foods on the market and hopefully find a food sooner than later that will be healthy for my dog as she has struggled with pancreatitis in the past years ago although she hasn’t had a problem with that now but she does have thyroid issues and is on medication twice a day for that and has recurring yeast infections in one of her ears which drives me crazy I’m not sure what to do about this so hopefully finding a food will help with all of this. I also will give her cooked chicken or beef or turkey with some of her dry food of which I cut the portion of dry food when I add the cooked meat.

Any suggestions or tips or ideas or recommendations are greatly appreciated and welcomed. Thank You, Bonnie M.

[Anonymous]

I recently started my 3 y/o pit bull on the Nusentia Miracle. If any of you have a pit bull you know how toxic they are when passing gas! Plus, my boy had horrible breath. After just one week he breath started getting much better. As far as his bowel movements, they don’t smell as much and are much more regular. A few days ago I also started him on Merrick Backcountry raw freeze dried lamb, rabbit and duck. He is doing well on it. He doesn’t throw up and he gets SUPER excited when it’s time to eat. I’ll count that as a win. I just want my baby to live forever so I am glad he is doing so well on these products.

[Anonymous]

I recently started my 3 y/o pit bull on the Nusentia Miracle. If any of you have a pit bull you know how toxic they are when passing gas! Plus, my boy had horrible breath. After just one week he breath started getting much better. As far as his bowel movements, they don’t smell as much and are much more regular. A few days ago I also started him on Merrick Backcountry raw freeze dried lamb, rabbit and duck. He is doing well on it. He doesn’t throw up and he gets SUPER excited when it’s time to eat. I’ll count that as a win. I just want my baby to live forever so I am glad he is doing so well on these products.

[aimee]

Hi K9Ancestraldiet,

I typically don’t feed raw but have used some freeze dried raw and have purchased raw diet to lightly cook before feeding.

But in answer to your question no I wouldn’t use your food. I start by evaluating the company and like to see one that meets WSAVA criteria and from your website I don’t see that. Maybe you do but it isn’t evident from the site.

The site makes statements without any references to back the statements up which is a real turn off for me. For example this: “Raw dog food is 99% digestible, resulting in smaller stools and increased activity for all organs. (The more they work with less rate of passage, the more blood flow to the organs and longer organ life) and this “Did you know that students at Kansas State University ground up a old boot and sent it in for analysis and it was selected as a commercial dog food for the market by AAFCO?”. I think this is referring to a promotional piece from Hill’s Science diet but somehow way skewed from what that marketing piece was about.

There isn’t any caloric information on the site, the feeding recommendations are vague and don’t look to be accurate as caloric requirements are not linear.

All in all from the material presented my first impression is that the company understands very little about nutrition, and doesn’t fact check. These are not the qualities I want to see in a company I’m trusting to meet my dog nutrient needs.

[InkedMarie]

It’s nothing I would buy because I don’t use produce as a part of my dogs raw food.

[Christie]

I recently purchased Crave Dog food when it was on sale. My two dogs had been eating Instinct Raw Boost Healthy Weight formula, but neither liked it. I transitioned to Crave Lamb and Venison and one dog really liked it and the other took a few bites and then left it alone and waited until I guess she was hungry enough to finish. On my next trip back to the store, I found that they were completely out of the Lamb so I purchased a small bag of Crave Salmon and Ocean Fish. It was my own fault for waiting until I had run out and assuming that the store would have what I needed. I didn’t know how they would tolerate a switch in protein formula.

The dog that didn’t like the Lamb loves the Salmon and the dog that liked the Lamb eats the Salmon (to be honest he’d eat almost anything) but sometimes he’ll let it sit before he does.

Can I mix the two formulas and feed them both at the same time? Or could it lead to digestive upset?

[K9AncestralDiet]

Hello all,

I help manage social media for a local raw dog food company in Colorado. I understand this forum isn’t for spam, but I did want to reach out to this community and have you take a look at our foods – We offer three raw recipes in beef, bison and lamb varieties, and I would love to know what you think about them! Is this food something you would consider for your dog? If not, why?

https://k9ancestraldiet.com/ Thanks and let me know what you guys think!

[a c]

Aimee,

Thank you for the investigation. I have stop giving No Hide Chews for sometime. I am now giving Smart Bones, the healthy alternative to rawhides. The package also said it’s rawhide free. It’s made in Vietnam. It gets good reviews from a few places. Have you heard anything about this one?

[GSDsForever]

Laurie is absolutely correct:

Skin issues are one of the most common health issues for German Shepherds, so much so that vet books reference things like “German Shepherd Pyoderma” for example. Very, very commonplace. These bacterial and other infections typically have an underlying health disorder that is primary.

GSDs are *frequently* are mentioned in veterinary literature among the dogs most commonly suffering allergies. Allergies or autoimmune system dysfunction are known to underlie skin troubles in GSDs.

Laurie, I too believe that a fresh home prepared diet is ideal.

But in a food allergy dog, it’s all about removing the allergen in the diet — whether commercial kibble/wet, raw, or homecooked.

I’m so grateful to have my dog no longer suffering from allergies! She is doing beautifully, is so much more comfortable and happy, and looks gorgeous now. But we had to change diet (food allergies), address inhalant and environmental allergies in care, and she receives Cytopoint injections — multipronged approach.

[Laurie J]

Patti L., please don’t make generalized statements like “GSD are not allergic dogs, please start making your own food for him……..”. I’ve raw fed my 18 month old GSD for over a year, with a huge variety of excellent human grade ingredients, and it’s extremely balanced, plus with added fish oil, digestive enzymes and probiotics. I’ve done every recommended thing from reputable forums for scratching/chewing/hot spot dogs. Guess what? He’s allergic to something! And it’s a very long, frustrating and expensive process to go through to find out exactly what the culprit is. In fact, the state university veterinary dermatology clinic we go to sees a whole lot of GSDs with skin/allergy issues. I truly believe that a balanced raw or home cooked diet is best for our dogs, but it certainly isn’t the cure all for GSDs or other breeds/dogs with skin and allergy issues.

[aimee]

I received the lab report on the Salmon No Hide chews. This was done at a veterinary diagnostic lab by a forensic pathologist. The sample was submitted by my dog’s veterinarian. The lab rehydrated the chew in deionized water. The pink coating is described as gelatinous and friable which floated within the water. The chew itself described as tough and not able to be manually torn or pulled apart. The white/tan chew material was processed separately from the pink coating material

The coating material is described as having no distinct organization and an accumulation of eosinophilic strands. “The strands of material occasionally have multiple nuclei along the periphery and rarely cross striations are observed ( consistent with skeletal muscle) The myocytes [muscle cells] vary in diameter…….There are numerous aggregates that are clear ………….and brown crystalline structures within the material”

Comments: “The filling material appears to be a mixture of animal product (identification of skeletal muscle) mixed with a filler product( plant based material?)”

For the chew itself: “The material appears to be composed of streams of eosinophilic material( no observable nuclei) with relatively distinct margins. This material is birefringent using polarized light.” I didn’t know what that last sentence meant and looked it up. I found that it is a measure of symmetry and is a reported characteristic of collagen.
Comments: “The majority of the rolled product appears to be composed of collagen like material”

I found this interesting not only for what it says but for what it doesn’t say. The company describes the chew as being high muscle content ” meat is an essential part of the “dough” portion of the No-Hide” and ” The wild caught salmon has been carefully hand-rolled, cooked, and uniquely dried for a one of a kind chew your dog will love!” yet no muscle tissue was found on microscopic examination of the chew, only in the coating. Additionally, the chew had been described as being made of rice vegetable gelatin, oil and eggs with the protein added but no description of plant based products intermixed with animal based in the chew description ..only in the coating description. The chew is uniformly composed of collagen-like material.

Rawhide is the dermis of the skin which is a mat of collagen fibers. The pathology of this No Hide chew is consistent with dermis.

So what next.. I’ve already got hundreds invested into this and I’m going to take it farther. I’ll send out a labeled rawhide chew and have it processed as the No Hide was so a direct comparison can be made. Then depending on cost have specialized stains run.

Right now to my eye this forensic pathology report is consistent with this product being rawhide.

[Dexter P]

Katherine, in our situation we went back to the Pure Balance Bison kibble that they really seemed to enjoy, this is only about a 1/2 cup mixed with their raw food, but within a matter of a couple days it had all cleared up and their appetite returned and they actually seemed happy back with the Pure Balance. Im not really big on any retail kibble but this seemed to be better than a lot of them. I do hope your pup is doing batter.
Dexter

[GSDsForever]

Wow, lot of sharply divergent information, strong opinions, values, and emotions in this thread!

I really feel for you Deborah. I can tell 100% that you love your dog very much, have been through and still are going through a lot, want and try to to the right thing — and wish to be respectful of your vet and others here & elsewhere.

If I met you in person, I’d really love to sit down and just talk it through supportively.

There’s so much in this thread to comment on. I’m going to presume, benefit of the doubt, that even where we disagree, that all here intend to be respectful and are motivated by sincere belief that they are giving you the best advice for your dog to be well. I wish to do the same.

1)I don’t like/believe in/recommend Dynovite. I just don’t think it’s this amazing product or expenditure to accomplish what you/others want. I think it’s a gimmicky & an overhyped, overpriced product that is very trendy, convenient, readily available, & well-marketed to take advantage of people and their pets.

I would eliminate it and start from scratch with a quality food. Supplement as needed.

2)Royal Canin Ultamino — aka the hydrolyzed bird feathers food

I 100% hear you & support you, agree with not wanting to feed this food. That SHOULD be okay. Honestly. Why? Because there absolutely are alternatives to it and the science/feeding strategy behind it is NOT unique on the market.

Here’s the thing: a diet of hydrolyzed protein + very limited other ingredients, starch (no protein allergen), pure fats IS hypoallergenic, meaning LESS likely to trigger allergic food responses and/or food intolerance reactions. So that *type* of diet recommendation from a vet is a valid one.

That said, THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL OR NECESSARY OR BENEFICIAL about feeding specifically bird feathers or “poultry byproducts aggregate” as the protein source. It’s the hydrolyzed aspect of the protein ingredient that is key to hypoallergenic status. If your vet did not explain it well to you, food allergens are proteins, and a hydrolyzed ingredient has the protein (the allergen) broken down into much smaller components that are less likely to trigger the body’s recognition of the ingredient and allergic response.

Other hydrolyzed diets, besides this one, may be fed. Other equally good options for feeding allergic dogs include limited protein, limited ingredient diets that exclude what your dog is allergic to if that is known or strongly suspected.

Sometimes this is rather simple. In a dog that has eaten the same diet of chicken its whole life, for example, merely switching to a fish based food can work. When a variety of foods have been fed, with no relief/allergies continued, a novel protein limited ingredient diet is fed. “Novel” here simply means whatever YOUR dog has not had before, not anyone else’s. It is critical here that the diet you select has pristine quality control, takes rigorous steps in manufacturing or home preparation, to avoid cross-contaminating the diet with ingredients not listed on the label. Especially when it is not known what all your dog has been exposed to and may be allergic to, it may be best to to avoid the current known top allergens for dogs: chicken, beef, eggs, dairy, soy, wheat, corn — and now also fish, lamb (after these have become no longer “alternative” foods but commonplace to feed). For dogs that have been exposed to everything under the sun, a really unusual protein can be used (e.g. kangaroo, if elk/venison has been fed).

A word of caution regarding OTC kibbles, cans, dehydrated/etc. products: In an OTC product vs alternatives of vet prescription commercial diets or homemade, you need to do your homework — research the food and ask pointed questions of the manufacturer and consider the actual plant that makes the food. Most people don’t do this, aren’t aware of the problem (trust the label too much) and many OTC commercial foods, including so-called limited ingredient diets, fail such cross-contamination quality control and therefore fail to provide relief (because the allergen is still being fed but not listed on the label). For a severely and genuinely allergic dog, this can be a nightmare — as tiny amounts can trigger the allergic response.

I do find it odd — and perhaps I am missing something here — that your vet is proposing and insisting (as you say) upon this one food. That doesn’t make sense to me — not on any scientific, research & evidence, best practices basis — purely from what you’ve said here.

What if this food stopped being manufactured tomorrow? What if it were recalled and therefore could not be recommended (temporarily)? What if your dog hated it and refused to eat it?

Surely there are other foods you could purchase to accomplish the medical goals here. Surely you could also feed an appropriate homemade/home prepared diet. This leads me to my next part . . . .

3)Vet-Client Relationship and Recommendations

A good veterinarian-client relationship is one of mutual respect and two-way dialogue. That dialogue includes both sides considering and addressing what the other is saying. Both sides may raise valid points that are worthy of consideration, understanding, discussion.

This means mutually asking and answering questions as necessary and respectfully, patiently making decisions TOGETHER in the best interest of the dog. Basing decisions upon careful consideration of facts and evidence, where things are explained and understood, still involves two way discussion. Some respect for the *values* of the pet owner, should be accorded by one’s vet, not to mention any actual fact based knowledge that a pet owner may have.

As an example, I have expressed to my vet(s) that, aside from concerns about ingredient/formulation quality, I am not comfortable on ethical grounds (including documented animal cruelty discovered in feeding trials) in supporting a particular major dog food manufacturer. Both vets (over the years) I expressed this to were very respectful and open to alternatives selected together. One vet shared that she did not know about the issue and asked me further about it because it disturbed her too. (Vets are busy and, like all people, don’t hear about/read everything and miss things.)

Similarly, my vet and I *discussed*, *considered* Apoquel (which you said you use) and Atopica for severe, unrelenting allergies and I ultimately rejected both after researching them. He was fully respectful of that. He never was pushy about either or any other course of action proposed. Later, when Cytopoint was recommended, I did choose to use this (again based on my research and discussion with the vet/vet staff) and have had great results.

I appreciate that you like your vet otherwise, find her to be “nice.” But it sounds like more two-way discussion should be happening and alternatives considered.

Conversely, as with human doctors, I strongly believe it is important that people see a vet that they trust — and then proceed to trust in what they say. By this I mean not that clients simply blindly and without discussion automatically do every single thing that their vet suggests or recommends, but that they seriously consider and respectfully attend to their recommendations, ask questions, try to understand, and reach good decisions TOGETHER. It’s a better course of action to propose major changes to one’s vet first, consider what she has to say & discuss, then take action than the other way around.

If a client cannot trust her vet (or human doctor) or cannot have full, open discussion with them, then why would that client see that vet (or human doctor). And yet I know many people who do exactly this — and it is probably a frustrating experience for both sides.

I see this come up, with dog owners I talk to, with vaccination schedules, heartworm prevention, and diet (including especially raw or homemade diets). And yet all of those topics are important and ones I expect to be able to discuss openly with my vet in full — and I do. If I can do it, you can do it.

Without being there, since you like your vet, it sounds to me *possibly* that either more time needs to be spent with you on this topic or you might need to be more assertive, vocal yourself and ask questions — ask why just this food, what are alternatives, what about this or that food (why or why not), what about a trial on a different one, what about a homemade vet supervised diet (using a consult service w/veterinary nutritionist if necessary), and be just as persistent as she has been. Get the answers you need to make the best decision for your pet, based on multiple options and good information.

***IF*** you’re just going to your vet because she’s close by, out of habit/length of time seeing her with your pet and hesitant/uncomfortable leaving her for a new one, because she’s “nice” (even caring), but are NOT ultimately getting what you need from her medically — are not able to have a full & open discussion with her, have all your questions & concerns addressed, receive alternatives and options — then I would see a different vet.

4)If your dog has more food intolerances, GI reactions to overall formulations, like too rich, etc., a sensitive digestive system more so than actual allergies, then there are foods very good for that that I would explore. These differ somewhat from strict allergy diets. Was your dog diagnosed with allergies or just sensitive tummy/touchy digestive system or food intolerances? Was a specialist consulted by your vet?

Some foods appropriate to sensitive digestive systems are just bland and very moderate, conservative in overall nutrition profile/guaranteed analysis, and low residue (meaning highly digested and low poop).

I’ve known people to switch from diets marketed explicitly for this purpose, prescribed even, to Fromm’s (and Fromm is a great company, with an excellent longterm record of quality control) Whitefish formula and it’s been exceptionally well tolerated by their dogs. It’s bland, not rich, and has quality ingredients. That’s just one example. There are other choices. Wellness Simple and Nutrisource come to mind, also Go! Sensitivity and Shine.

5)Homemade diets

If this interests you, your vet should be helping you and supportive, as it can be done.

Your vet should be able to provide a free, published balanced diet appropriate to your dog’s needs/condition, minimally consult (sometimes this is free) with a specialist colleague, OR full blown consult (for a fee) or outright refer you to go see a specialist in nutrition who will design you a diet or multiple meals you can safely feed.

Similarly, regarding that itchy skin/allergies, your vet can consult and discuss a case — often for free — with a veterinary dermatologist (specialist) or outright refer you to see one. Has your vet done this? If not, why not? If you have reached the point that you are trying so many diets, things, experienced such a range of symptoms over time, dog taking Apoquel, your vet insisting upon RC Ultamino now, consulting/referral would conform to best practices.

If money is really tight and you don’t have dog insurance (or coverage), there are both free board certified veterinary nutritionist/other credentialed authored single diets available on the web as well as one entire book of therapeutic veterinary diets (from UC Davis) now freely available on the web.

Personally, if you want to go the route of an actual veterinary nutritionist helping your dog, I would recommend (for many reasons) a long distance consult with board certified veterinary nutritionist Susan Wynn (unless you are in Atlanta, in which case you can see her in person). It’s about $300. She will consult with generalist vets long distance, which not all veterinary nutritionists will do.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by GSDsForever.

[poodaddy]

Same topic (collaboration request) as posted under the Homemade Dog Food section. Am interested in a group of interested parties who want to walk step by step through the proper conversion of USDA raw food data through the conversions needed to compare raw food data to the AAFCO standards.

[poodaddy]

Anyone interested in collaborating on this topic, please reply.

• This topic was modified 8 years ago by poodaddy.

[GSDsForever]

Oops! I sooooo did not catch in my skim read through the thread that “anon101” explicitly recommended “Fat Dogs.” My apologies. Therefore, let me SECOND the recommendation — with good multi-vet support and client results to back it.

Honestly, with people using it for their dogs, I’ve/they’ve not encountered any side effects from this food in those pets like diarrhea/bowel problems. Just excellent, speedy weight loss and full, satisfied dogs.

I’d give it a shot if what you’ve tried thus far hasn’t netted results.

(Hate that title, btw, but I guess it quickly gets the point across! lol. But imagine the uproar if a food for human children was marketed by that name!!!)

p.s. Susan also mentioned green beans. I was surprised to find, after vet recommendation, that my dog just loves them, raw (crispy, crunchy) even, esp. when I buy the bags of thin fresh ones from farmer’s market/produce grocery.

Another idea for you, re the foraging (which, like you, I would let her do): sprinkle some green beans around your grounds maybe?

Subtract an estimated calorie count from treats/foraging outside from her total calories allowed per day when determining cups of food. That will help a lot.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by GSDsForever.

[GSDsForever]

Chris,

I’m just seeing this. But I thought I’d throw in a few more suggestions, as they’re not mentioned above.

My vet recommends green beans as a treat or added ingredient to food — including for weight loss, satiety filling up on low calories (raw or cooked). Many people here buy the giant organic frozen bag Costco sells — such a deal!

If you are able to afford it, Zeal from Honest Kitchen is a food I’d strongly explore using, try. VERY low fat, high protein. Excellent ingredients, quality sourcing & quality control, from a great company. Caveat: Yes, higher calories — but you would just feed less of it, and add in healthy veggies/fruit (low cal, low fat, non-sugary/starchy) for desired bulk/satiety.

“Fat Dogs” by Natural Balance is a dry food some good vet practices — ones that otherwise promote & sell higher end “health food” commercial brands of dog food — prescribe to clients with overweight dogs and get compliance and excellent results quickly. Extremely low calorie (250 cal/Cup), very low fat (7.5%), pretty good to decent ingredients. Well worth considering, trying — esp. for short term, quick weight loss.

Anything you feed, remember that you will have the best results from monitoring & tightly controlling overall calories in a day, feeding (w/vet advice, supervision) UNDER what is recommended for your dog’s weight, and increased regular EXERCISING your dog with you.

[haleycookie]

I think perhaps you are a bit lost. Have you tried contacting a real veternarian nutritionist? They tend to have a better opinion on foods that are healthier and will help stabilize your dog. Even if it’s a balanced raw diet that you are seeking. I don’t believe in all the low quality prescription diets either and I CERTAINLY do not believe that when a dog is sick nutrition isn’t optimal. Of course it is. How would a sick dog on a garbage diet ever get better? If he is starting to do ok on the ultimo try and keep him on it for just a second. Contact a vet nutritionalist and see what they recommend as far as a prescribed balanced raw diet for him. It’s gonna be a long road figuring out what he’s sensitive to and maybe raw just isn’t for him but maybe you can at least switch him back to blue with is better than science diet and the Royal Canin in my opinion.

[Dharlee]

I love my dog with all my heart. And yes, I know that I may have made a mistake in trying to get him on what I believed would be a better food. But I can’t believe- not for an instant that feather meal- or worm meal- is a good thing for him. Or any dog. Honestly because they don’t have to compete with the humans for food? I just can’t even believe it. I really think this takes processed foods to a whole other level. And I do believe that many vets today only know nutrition from the food companies. For example she won’t believe a dog can process raw food at all. Not any dog at any age. I love her. She’s nice. But I don’t have to agree with her choice of feather meal for my dog. I have to be able to sleep at night and I won’t giving an animal that to eat.

Please know that my reply is not snarky to you. I am not fussing at you. I simply disagree about this topic.