[anonymous]

@ Christie B

Check out Fromm Classic Adult https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-classic-adult-dog-food
as a base, most veterinarians approve.
Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach is good too.

PS: Forget about raw, forget about supplements, listen to your vet

Suggestions for a topper:
I boil a small chicken once a month in a huge pot, nothing added, then let it simmer for 3 to 4 hours.
Let it cool for a couple of hours.
When cool enough to handle, remove the chicken and debone, be very careful and throw out small pieces and such as tiny bones could be in there. When in doubt, throw out.
Put the pot of broth in the fridg on cold temp for 24 hours, the fat will rise to the top so that you can easily remove it.
Separate the broth in individual containers or freezer baggies (3 or 4 day supply each) store in freezer.
Do the same for the chicken meat.
Its a bit of work and messy, but cost effective, and you know for sure that there are no added ingredients.
The store bought has preservatives and salt. The more expensive brand in the organic section might be a little better.

[Christie B]

Thanks.

I’ve been researching different ways to introduce and transition to raw (or at the very least away from kibble to something canned or refrigerated). Cost is killer. Two dogs, weighing 120 lbs and 45-50 lbs, equate to a lot of food.

My vet is 110% against raw diets, even long term cooked diets. He’s all Purina Pro Plan, all the time. He doesn’t even like that I’ve given my dogs supplements since normal kibble has everything they’d possible need.

[Bernice L]

Your dog’s’ symptoms are identical to what my Freddy went through for a number of years, culminating last year in over $5000 worth of vet bills, long-term hospital stays and near-death at one point. Finally was referred to a gastro specialist and he was diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis and bilious vomiting syndrome. After working with some meds and food changes it has now been 3 months with virtually no symptoms. I switched Freddy to raw food (from our local butcher who makes a blend of chicken, beef liver, veggies, brown rice and ground bone for calcium) and within days noticed a huge difference. Despite all the controversy about raw food for him this was the answer. He is still on Metonia as part of the issue with his diagnosis is his difficulty digesting food properly, any food. He also is on Pepcid and 1 tsp of Metamucil a day (although I buy a natural fibre the pharmacist said was better, and cheaper). It sounds like a lot, but not only is Freddy healthier, no bouts of drooling, nausea, vomiting or diarrhea since November, but the food is 1/3 of the cost of his prescription food he had been on, he poops only once or twice a day, nice solid poops, his coat is fabulously soft, he has way less gas (he’s a Frenchton so I thought farting a lot was normal… not!). The Metonia is not expensive, $17/month, dog food now around $80, compared to $255, Pepcid & Fibre combined $10, a far cry from the expenses from before. In addition, it is important to keep their stomachs full so his meals are broken up into 4 a day and ABSOLUTLEY NO KIBBLE, NO BONES, and only low fat treats — I buy dried sweet potatoes and fruit, fresh fruit like blueberries and apples (NO skin as there is a lot of fat in apple skins, who knew?). It may sound strange to say “low fat” when he is on raw food, but it works. The specialist I worked with did not recommend the raw food, that was my desperation, but he did not discourage it either. You can google him, Dr. Gelens in Kelowna BC Canada. Good luck with your dog, I hope this helps.

[Christie B]

Hi madima,

I have a 120 lb. 10 year old American Bulldog mix and 4 year old 45-50 lb. Catahoula mix. Like your two dogs, they have different nutritional needs. I’ve tried to find a food that both can eat (since they literally will investigate each other’s food bowls during feeding time).

My senior dog had had issues with chicken and it’s really hard to find a Large breed Senior formula that doesn’t use chicken. And the ones that do are grain free and tend to use lentils or chickpeas in the first 5 ingredients and my dog winds up with stomach issues when he eats food with those ingredients. He did okay on CANIDAE Grain-Free PURE Meadow Senior Formula for a while.

I haven’t had a puppy in a while so I can’t recommend any large breed puppy formulas.

As for toppers, I rotate between canned salmon or sardines, eggs, boiled boneless chicken thighs or sometimes canned dog food [type that’s 96% *insert protein form*] when it’s on sale… not too much of it because I’m trying get these guys to lose some lbs. I used to buy Stella & Chewy’a meal mixers or Instinct Rawboost mixers, but they were just too expensive in the long run.

[Susan]

Hi Christie,

Tin salmon has been cooked, just make sure you read the Sodium/Salt% look for the
lowest %…. Some can Salmon still has the bone & skin still on the Salmon, remove the skin
& crush the bones they’re healthy aswell…
adding 2 spoon of Salmon a day to dog meals is very healthy…I often mix 1/2 boiled sweet potato feed as meal…

When Salmon is raw it has parasites & needs to be frozen for 3 weeks

[Patricia A]

I think the freeze dried version of raw is always more expensive . Frozen raw is probably the way to go with large breed dogs. I find Primal is great and also use Stella’s. Primal has Pronto frozen bags which has small round shape that is scoopable.I have small breeds so I do the freeze dried. I also stick to the 5* proteins/flavors on the reviews here. I believe these are higher protein vs fat to avoid pancreatitis. Bixbi rawbble is excellent also. Much lower in fat in all proteins/flavors. I find them expensive so I give as treats.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Sounds like a good plan to me Amir. I agree with staying away from Orijen/Acana. I know about the lawsuit but it’s really because Acana was mentioned so many times as being fed when their dogs were diagnosed with low taurine or DCM. Lamb and rice frequently.
Mine get home cooked also. Just some boiled chicken, lean steak if they’re and I’m lucky that day. lol
I do like to switch around the freeze dried though. Primal turkey/sardine and duck. They get Bixbi Rawbble as treats only. Really expensive.
Don’t think kibble will ever be the perfect food for dogs . Grain free or not. Just man made for convenience for pet owners. Not natural for our pets to be eating day in and day out for life.
You have about the same feeding regime as me. I wish us luck. Geesh..I didn’t worry so much about what I was feeding my kids when growing as much I do about these two fur babies. lol

• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by Patricia A.

[Amir H]

Hi all,
I have a standard Poodle puppy (7 months old). She’s about 32 pounds know. I’m not sure if she’s gonna be above 50 lbs. To be safe I’m feeding her large breed puppy food. She’s been on Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy for a few months now and she’s doing good (I have to add some freeze dried toppers to her food to keep her interested).

I’m thinking of rotating her food to something else just to make sure she’s getting all the necessary the necessary nutrition. I’m thinking of switching her to Stella and Chewy Raw Coated Kibble for Puppies: https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/raw-coated-kibble/puppy-chicken-recipe
I know that Stella and Chewy kibble is higher price, but it’s within my budget.

I wanted to know if this is a good decision or not? Should I just stay on Fromm or for the next 3 months switch her to something else for the sake of rotation.

[Mia F]

Hi! I have a healthy and happy 14 year old shih tzu/jack russell. Right now we have transitioned away from Iams and have started serving her Raised Right’s chicken mix for adult dogs. It’s a perfect fit for us, the only problem is that it’s a little expensive. I’m looking to find a quality cooked food brand to mix with her Raised Right. The problem I’m running into is it seems like all the reputable brands that actually care about dogs only offer raw products. I am not comfortable serving her raw food that is mass-produced, especially given that she is older and her immune system is probably going to decline.

Thanks for considering this.

[anonymous]

Don’t Give Raw Milk to Your Pets!

Posted on January 28, 2019 by skeptvet
(excerpt below)

“If you feed your dog or cat raw milk, you are taking a serious risk of illness for your pet and yourself without any reasonable evidence to suggest a benefit that would make that risk worth taking. Just as raw diets in general have clearly established dangers and no proven benefits, so raw milk is a. poor bet with serious risks. That is why raw milk products are generally illegalfor human consumption under federal and state law.”

[InkedMarie]

I guess I don’t think of veggies as being in a raw diet whether they’re raw or not. JMO I’m sure not paying for additional veggies in the raw I buy.

[Sanne]

If the vegetables are raw then it is still 100% raw. It may not be 100% meat but it is still raw…

[InkedMarie]

Instinct is NOT 100% raw….unless I missed something, there is veggies and other ingredients. It’s fine to feed veggies if you want but that is not 100% raw. By the way, there are companies such as Raw Feeding Miami, Hare Today, My Pet Carnivore that are just raw.

[dane g]

hi everyone. so we have a lab and live in south florida. that means constant ear infections as dogs with floppy ears, like our lab, have trapped moisture in their ears. my vet tells me the top reason dog patients visit centers around said ear infections. i was spending loads of cash and getting little benefit. so i went searching for a grain free and starch free dog food–its also 100% raw so nothing is ever cooked. while i do check in from time to time and see if there are others, to date, ive only found one and its pretty accessible (Amazon, Petco and et al). here is a link: https://www.instinctpetfood.com/raw-starts-here/what-is-raw

switching to this food had a *huge impact on our dogs ear health. while not fully curing the issue we went from two, constantly infected ears needing cleaning in upwards of 2-3 times a day to only one infected ear needing cleaning around 1-2 every week or two.

its not cheap but prices out about the same as any premium food and again, the only one ive ever found to be A) raw B) grain free and C) starch free

• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by dane g. Reason: corrections

[Linda K]

My dog was eating, enjoying, and doing very well on Zignature Zssentials, after months of periodic vomiting and almost-constant diarrhea. Suddenly, after I weaned him onto ZZ, his poop looked textbook perfect, and the vomiting stopped almost completely. I was psyched! Then he was found to have extremely low taurine without cardiac deficiencies, and the cardiologist told me to take him off grain-free food and “avoid exotic meats.” DRAT! My friend, Amelia Z, did a vast amount of research, and she shared with me her findings. I now have him on The Real Meat Company air dried beef recipe dog food. Color me happy! He is once again eating and enjoying it, pooping normally, and hasn’t vomited in a long time. Its exorbitant price tag is a drawback, but my dog’s comfort, mood, and normalcy are worth every penny to me. Chewy carries it, and it is cheaper than anywhere else that I can find. The autoship saves a bit too. Good luck to you! It’s a daunting task and carries with it — for me, at least — a lot of stress, anxiety, angst and even guilt.

[Katherine J]

It’s icky but I saw stuffed cowhooves with green tripe, plain hooves, raw whole tracheas and a training treat called K9Magic.

[Katherine J]

Don’t know where you are located but I use Tiger’s Choice by GreenTripe.com
It’s main ingredients are heart, liver and greentripe. It is raw but it doesn’t stink even if there is tripe in there. As cats cannot produce their own taurine, the heart and liver as well as tripe provide that. I looked up why taurine is important and Google says. “It is critical for normal vision, normal digestion, normal heart muscle function, to maintain normal pregnancy and fetal development, and to maintain a healthy immune system.”

[InkedMarie]

My pbgv, Boone, the dog in my avatar, is 13 today! He is the oldest dog that we’ve had since he was a puppy. I credit that to him eating raw for the second half of his life & minimal vaccines. He’s a pain in the butt but the most awesome dog!

[Susan]

Hi Pat,
Sorry for what has happened 🙁
if you can afford it I’d cook meals or feed 1 cooked meal & the other meal feed a freeze dried dog food that has human grade ingredients, I’d stay away from dry kibbles & wet can dog foods…
Take back the 3 bags of TOTW food & get your money back..if pet shop wont refund then contact TOTW..
also here’s link for FDA to report a problem.
https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/SafetyHealth/ReportaProblem/ucm182403.htm

Ask vet to do full blood test see if liver is OK ??

My Patch was doing really well on TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb from 2015-2017 then 2017-Nov he started to go down hill & refused to eat his TOTW Lamb kibble, Patch NEVER refuses food, thats when I knew something was wrong.
I blammed the TOTW Lamb kibble he was eating had made him very ill being a Diamond product he didnt get better after I stopped teh TOTW kibble so in January 2018 he had endoscope & biopsies done & he has LES – his Lower Esophageal Sphincter flap doesnt close properly this was causing bad acid reflux washing back up & was burning his wind pipe & esophagus were both red & inflammmed but I still think TOTW made him ill aswell, his liver results weren’t good, I’d say a few things were happening cause he does have IBD & Skin Allergies but we are what we eat & he was eating the same dry food I wasnt rotating & feeding any other foods like I normally do….

Never feed the same brand of pet food month after month, year after year, this is when health problems can start to happen…
Now I rotate his foods again, I change between 3 different brands now & try & add as much fresh food as possible in his diet.. When I started feeding him “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult dry & “Wellness Simple” Turkey & Potato he started to get better, he hasnt become ill again..but it took a while for him to get well again

There’s a company that test/studies for toxins, heavy metals & contaminates they test
the best selling Pet Foods in America, these dog foods are tested in an accredited analytical chemistry laboratory for 130 harmful environmental and industrial contaminants and toxins. Results are published as Product Ratings.
I cant post the link as DFA, DFA doesn’t believe in this testing & blocks the link, different batches of Dog/Cat wet, dry & treats get tested every 3-4 months these are all “new different batches” that are being tested everytime, certain brands of pet foods keep coming back time & time again very high in toxins, heavy metals & contaminates &

TOTW High Prairie adult formula & TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon have been on the 1 star – high toxins, heavy metals & contaminate list for nilly 2yrs now cause they have poison ingredients in them… 🙁

Google, heavy metals, toxins in dry dog foods,
so you can see all the 5 -1 star foods –

Here’s C L P first 13 x 5 star dry dog foods that tested very well, if you cant find the dry food site C L P I’m talking about.
Thats if you want to continue feeding a dog food..

* Buckley Liberty Freeze-Dried Beef Recipe Dry Dog Food
* Buckley Grain Free Liberty With Lamb Dry Dog Food
* Buckley Liberty Freeze-Dried Chicken Recipe Dry Dog Food
* Buckley Liberty Grain Free with Chicken Dry Dog Food
* Canisource Grand Cru All Life Stages Turkey Formula Dehydrated Raw Dry Dog Food
* CaniSource Grand Cru All Life Stages Pork and Lamb Formula Dehydrated Raw Dry Dog Food
* CaniSource Grand Cru All Life Stages Red Meat Formula Dehydrated Raw Dry Dog Food
* BIXBI Rawbble Freeze-Dried Dry Dog Food Duck Recipe
* BIXBI Rawbble Freeze-Dried Dry Dog Food Chicken Recipe
* BIXBI Rawbble Freeze-Dried Dry Dog Food Salmon & Chicken Recipe
* BIXBI Rawbble Dry Dog Food Lamb Recipe
* I and Love and You Grain Free Naked Essentials With Lamb + Bison Dry Dog Foo
* I and Love and You Grain Free Naked Essentials With Chicken + Duck Dry Dog Food

[Susan]

Hi Lyly,

When I put my IBD boy onto a homemade raw diet his Naturopath Vet said to just start feeding the raw the next morning & just stop feeding his dry kibble, I had to add a Probiotic powder & Digestive enzymes to the raw meal but that was cause Patch has IBD…
You can start him on Kelfir or Goats Milk aswell..
He’ll LOVE raw food & do smaller & less poo’s, just make sure its balanced if making own homemade raw…I feed dehydrated free range organic raw now.. “Frontier Pets” just for lunch & PAtch eats his dry kibble for Breakfast & Dinner..

In Australia alot of people feed both raw & kibble, the dog gets his dry kibble & raw mince & 1-2 spoons tin sardines added on top of the kibble…& raw meaty bones twice a week for breakfast…
My dog who has IBD can eat raw & kibble together, the kibble helps keep down the digested raw food as he regurgitates all wet foods now 🙁

Join a few raw feeding F/B groups, here’s 2

“Raw Feeding 101-Learn To Feed Raw”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/rawfeeding101learntofeedraw/

“Raw Feeding Advice & Support”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/451782265003776/

[Patricia A]

Congrats on your adoption!! Don’t know about feeding Blue. I’ve read a few negative things about the company. https://www.chagrinfallspetclinic.com/2017/09/14/pet-food-lead-alert-blue-buffalo-blue-wilderness-dog-food-class-action-law-suit/
Maybe someone can chime in about a good base kibble and start the raw with toppers. I use Primal freeze dried , Stella Chewy’s freeze dried and Bixbi freeze dried as treats because Bixbi is so expensive. All expensive in the freeze dried but I have small dogs. I think the frozen would be the way to go with the Primal/stellas’. My dogs are doing great on these. Reviews from advisor are all great also. I used Stella’s baked raw coated as base. However I stopped all kibble until this DCM mess is worked out. No legumes or starches in any of these foods.
Go to advisors reviews on Primal/Stellas for ingredients and to their f/b page to see what others say.
Like I said MY dogs do great with this. No stomach troubles. Just please start VERY slowly.

[lyly H]

I recently adopted a dog (not my profile pic!) and he’s 4 yrs old and 50 ibs. He’s been fed grocery store kibble in the shelter and I switched him to a high quality dog food, in my opinion, blue buffalo. I think feeding him raw food would be best, not for health reasons, but maybe just because. 🙂 How do I switch him from kibble to raw?? I’d really like to know!!

[InkedMarie]

Maybe someone will respond. I wouldn’t feed it, I don’t want other things in my raw but that’s just me. Good luck!

[InkedMarie]

I don’t understand why they add wheat germ oil, fish, eggs and vitamins.

I feed ground raw and it’s just meat/ one/organs. I buy from Hare Today

[Liz C]

Anyone here of either Titan or Eureka raw dog food? I’ve been researching and it’s so confusing, not sure if they are one of the same? I have a local co-op I can get a more affordable pre-made raw from Ross Wells Titan Blends, they are complete 80/10/10 blends:

This is not where I am getting it from but the link below shows the label info. They have two different complete blends, Red and Blue

https://dmvrawfeeders.com/food?olsPage=products%2Ftitan-blue-coarse-grind-tubed-40lbs

https://dmvrawfeeders.com/food?olsPage=products%2Ftitan-red-fine-grind-tubed-8-5lb-tubes-40lbs

And here is the Eureka

https://www.eurekapetfood.com/product-pages/ha5jz65xhuhkuzafunqrioakvp18ym-9kxzt-7twlz

I found some reviews but not many so wondering if this looks like a good option. I use complete blends 80/10/10 now minus the added vitamins and minerals. The blends I have just have the protein, organ and bone so not sure what the pros/cons are. to having the extra ingredients?

Thanks for any feedback, I appreciate it!

[Liz C]

I have a local co-op I can get a more affordable pre-made raw from Ross Wells Titan Blends, they are complete 80/10/10 blends:

This is not where I am getting it from but the link below shows the label info. They have two different complete blends, Red and Blue

https://dmvrawfeeders.com/food?olsPage=products%2Ftitan-blue-coarse-grind-tubed-40lbs

https://dmvrawfeeders.com/food?olsPage=products%2Ftitan-red-fine-grind-tubed-8-5lb-tubes-40lbs

I found some reviews but not many so wondering if this looks like a good option. I use complete blends 80/10/10 now minus the added vitamins and minerals. The blends I have just have the protein, organ and bone so not sure what the pros/cons are. to having the extra ingredients?

Thanks for any feedback, I appreciate it!

[Sanne]

No problem! Not much really, just some small differences in where the starch ingredients are on the list and ours seems to be missing liver and other minor things.

Here’s my rough translation of Core original
Fresh Turkey 15%, Turkey meal 13%, Chicken meal 15%, peas, dried potatoes, potato protein, dried chicken protein 5%, chicken fat 5%, Flaxseed 4%, Beetroot 3%, Salmon Oil 1%, Dried chicory root 0,5%, Apples, Broccoli, Spinach, Blueberries, Cranberries, Tomatoes, Yucca, Yeast extract

Might be some minor mistakes in there haha thinking of the English equivalent for some of those was a bit difficult

Oh wow after posting this reply my other long drawn out one seems to have disappeared! Glad you saw it before that happend 🙂

[Sanne]

I would think the toxins could be a big part of it more than “exotic” meats. I live in the Netherlands and as Susan pointed out, this just isn’t an issue here in Europe either. Some very common meats for dogs in my country are venison, rabbit and goat. Very often fed raw too. I would think if meats like that were a cause for all of this we would be seeing quite a few cases here in NL!

Orijen and Acana are sold here in Europe but we only get the stuff from the Canadian plant. Also, even if a food is not made in the EU, if it is sold here it must pass the same regulations that food made here does. I still don’t touch Champion foods though and it is not that common in the Netherlands. Most of us stick to foods made in Europe because the rules on pet food are much more strict.

It is definitely an interesting theory! Interestingly, dog foods full of legumes are not very popular here either. We do have some with peas but foods like that just have not gotten very widespread here.

[crazy4cats]

It’s a raw brand of raw food that uses fermentation on their products. Last I checked they had no pathogen quality control testing and could not provide nutrient analysis.

[joanne l]

try cooking the organ meat, as far as can food I don’t know what is the best. Right now I am feeding Natures Instinct can food. What breed is your pup? Then I will be able to answer how much can food her or she should get. I know a lot of people feed raw, but I just can’t do it. The only thing I feed raw is beef, but not the organs. I rather cook the organs but that’s just me. If you cook the organs you can mash them in the can food.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by joanne l.

[Anonymous]

Hi there

My pup loves canned food and sometimes getting her to eat her organs is a little challenging. How many people out there mix raw food with canned? What’s a good canned food? I’m looking at Zignature because of its limited ingredient list and zero chicken formulas. Also since I’m giving my pup about 2 – 2.5% of her body weight in raw, how much canned can I add? Can I just add the canned food to make up that 2%? Based on the feeding recommendations of canned food, they don’t seem to go by a pup’s body weight.

Thanks!

[Susan]

Hi Morgan,

are you on facebook?? join this group, post a post & ask people your question, you’ll probably get a better response..
“Dog Allergies, Issues and Other Information Support Group”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/240043826044760/

Also follow “Rodney Habib” Diet plays a big part in keeping your sick dog healthy..
https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib

I dont know how your going to go with low fat diet?? as you need fat (Omega fats)for allergies..

My boy cant have high fat diet, causes Acid reflux, he’s OK up to 13% max fat, I feed 13% max -fat & he does well…
Allergies can be confusing, sometimes we think its an ingredient or protein causing the dogs itchy skin, ears & paws etc, 80% of the time its from environment allergens..
Normally if a dog has food sensitivities they will also have environment allergies aswell..
Routine-Baths are the best to do with allergies, you wash off the Allergens off paws, skin etc, bath weekly or twice a week in the Spring & Summer.. I also use baby wipes & I wipe him down after we have gone for walks or he’s been out the back yard in Spring & Summer months when trees & plants are flowering.

My boy hs IBD Food sensitivities & seasonal environment allergies, fat has to be around 13%max as he suffers bad acid reflux,
I feed him “Wellness Simple” Wellness Core” Canidae Pure Wild Boar”

Why do you want to stay away from white potatoes??
Yeasty, smelly, itchy skin isnt caused by starchy carbs, a dog will only react to potatoes if he is sensitivite to potato, which is rare I’ve been told by a vet nutritionist, vet diets use Potato cause it’s a low allergen..

Have a look at First Mate, Chicken & Blueberries its Grain, Gluten & Pea Free, Single Meat Protein, Limited Ingredient Formula, Available in Small Bites

Limited Ingredient Chicken Meal with Blueberries Formula

I would look into feeding tin salmon in spring water + sweet potato,
just make sure you read sodium/salt % get the lowest %,
feed foods that are high in omega fatty acids, this way the skin is kept healthy & diet is low in hard fats…. Sardines can be very rich but are VERY healthy..
This is what I try to do with Patch, he eats 5 small meals a day, cause of his IBD, he eats his dry kibble 7am, 9am, 5pm & 7pm then for lunch -12pm he gets his wet healthy meal Salmon & Sweet potato, Frontier Pets – dehydrated free range raw made Australia, freeze dried green lipped Mussels, Almond 3 almonds a day for dogs , Follow Rodney, he is always posting healthy foods. I try to rotate as many healthy foods into his diet over 7 days..

If I were you i’d try & stay away from kibbles, pet foods are VERY high in toxins contamnates & heavy metals, you dont want to put more stress on his liver if you can..
Google heavy metals toxinz & contaminates in pet foods.. Chicken & Turkey are the cleanest meats in pet foods..
Good Luck

[Morgan A]

Here’s a hard one… I’m already afraid the answer is going to be a homemade or raw diet, which I’m totally not prepared for!

Long story short, my 6 and 1/2 year old bully mix has been diagnosed with vacuolar hepatopathy after a couple of years of tests, meds and supplements. He is not symptomatic but his ALT is through the roof. My veterinarian has done done preliminary research and it seems there’s not really a treatment for this, and the theory is that it’s a secondary condition resulting from his horrible allergies. I did find a single article that she is going to investigate further that claims a very low fat (but not protein restrictive) diet may help, <2 g fat/100 kcal. But I also have his allergies to consider, mainly grains but above all else peas and green beans. I’d prefer to stay away from white potatoes as well but I’m thinking we’re in a lesser of two evils kind of situation now. Luckily he has no animal protein allergies. There’s only one food in town that I’ve found he can habe and that’s Natural Balance fish and sweet potato, but I wasn’t crazy about it. I switched him to Sport Dog and he done well, but it’s definitely too high in fat if we decide to pursue this diet.

So, has anyone had a similar situation? Does anyone know of a unicorn food like what he needs?! I’m also open to suggestions on supplements, including antioxidants (also mentioned in the article as helpful), though Denamarin and Liver Happy did not help.

Thanks for reading!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Patricia-
Did you know that dogs being fed homemade and raw diets are also turning up with DCM? And that many of the dogs with diet related cases are not taurine deficient?

The two recent major peer-reviewed studies from UCDavis and North Carolina State University Colleges of Veterinary Medicine findings are implicating diets that are from boutique companies that do not have much research, contain exotic ingredients and/or contain legumes and/or potatoes. They also do not employ full time veterinary nutritionists. It’s not just about taurine. They know it is about the diet though because when taken off this type of diet and fed a WSAVA approved food, the dogs DCM was cured.

Check out this link for more info:
https://taurinedcm.org/

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by crazy4cats.

[Kimberly H]

Lynda B,
I understand your concern. My little ChiPin (Chihuahua x Min Pin) does have a harder time trying to crunch down on the round dense kibble and she does not have issues with her teeth and is only 4 years old. She much prefers the flat disc shapes that lay flat between her teeth and make it much easier to crunch down on and they are less dense. But I don’t believe the kibble will break your baby’s teeth even the dense ones. You can always find the kibble you want and just soften it with some hot water (& of course let it cool) or homemade bone broth (more cost effective & less worry about the sodium if you make yourself). Since my dog is not sensitive to grains, I have her on a grain-inclusive diet and she is currently on 4Health Salmon and Potato which have nice disc-shaped kibble but I’ve started wanting to get away from Peas, Lentils, Legumes, White Potatoes, and White Rice AND have the disc-shaped kibble. This will be quite a journey until I am able to put my dog back onto the raw diet, which I much rather prefer but can’t at the moment.

[Patricia A]

We all have our eyes on the pet food industry and are breathing down their necks to finally get this right.
For now I’m avoiding kibble of any kind. I have small dogs so it’s affordable to feed freeze dried.If you go to Stella’s or Primal’s f/b page, chewys you’ll see there are thousands who feed this to their pets and are doing very well. There are also many posts there questioning their food regarding DCM . So they are very aware that we are holding them accountable in them providing a nutritionally safe product for our pooches. As of now they are not implicated as one the offending foods. At this time we really just don’t know.
I always rotate several brands they have gotten used to and do well with. However I will now eliminate (until this dcm is settled) the protein rabbit and lamb. These “exotic proteins” contain little natural taurine. Will stick with turnkey/sardine, beef, chicken etc. They also get boiled eggs, lean steak, boiled fish, boiled chicken when we have it. When given the all clear I will again give the very little kibble in-between of Stella Chewy’s.
I believe adding taurine-rich fresh foods would be the safest and most beneficial method of introducing more taurine to your dog’s diet. Decreasing the risk of dietary DCM will be one of many benefits of introducing more fresh foods to your dog’s diet! The following table contains a list of food items and their taurine content [15,68]. Seafoods, dark meats, and organ meats generally contain the most taurine. Each food item in this table is raw unless otherwise noted.

Taurine (mg/100g)
Tuna (albacore) 176-200
Tuna (canned) 42
Tuna (whole) 284
Salmon 60-130
Mackerel 78
Mackerel (whole) 207
Cod 31
Whiting 40
Haddock 28
Whitefish 114-151
Clam (fresh) 520
Clam (canned) 152
Shrimp 155-390
Scallops 827
Octopus 388
Mussels 655
Oysters 396-698
Herring (whole) 154
Capelin (whole) 144
Smelt (whole) 69
Chicken (light meat) 18
Chicken (dark meat) 83-170
Chicken breast 16
Chicken leg 34
Chicken liver 110
Chicken hearts & livers 118
Chicken necks & backs 58
Chicken (whole) 100
Turkey (dark meat) 306
Turkey (light meat) 30
Turkey (ground, 7% fat) 210
Duck leg (meat) 178
Duck leg (skin) 62
Rabbit (whole, ground) 37
Beef (ground, 15% fat) 40
Beef (ground, 25% fat) 28
Beef heart 65
Beef kidney 69
Beef spleen 87
Beef lung 96
Beef tongue 175
Beef gullet 80
Pork loin 50-61
Pork lung 78
Pork gullet 65
Pork liver 86
Pork kidney 77
Lamb leg 47
Lamb kidney 24
Venison 60
Veal 40
Horse 31

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Patricia A.

[Susan]

Hi Carol,

When the fat % is too high poos are yellow, Mr Whippy poos, was the Purina Smartblend Tender Cuts in Gravy a wet can food?? What was the Purina Smarblend Ground Chicken ?? wet can or a dry kibble?? you have to stay 2% fat & under & 78% for moisture when its a wet can food.. this will be around 7-10% fat

Did you know the fat % in raw foods & wet can foods havn’t been converted to dry matter fat % like a kibble is, so when you convert say 5%min-fat in a wet can food the 5%min fat is around 20%min fat to 26%max fat %, it will all depend what the moisture % is in the wet or raw food? when moisture is over 80% you’ll fine the fat % will be higher…

You’re better off ither cooking chicken & boiled Sweet Potato or feeding Hills I/d Digestive Care low fat wet can foods or Royal Canine Gastrointestinal Low Fat wet can food,
If her diarrhea sloppy yellow poos doesnt clear up you’ll need some Metronidazole tablets…

Are you on Face Book join the “Canine Pancreatis Suport group”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435920120029740/
look in their “Files” scroll down to “Pancreas Low Fat dog foods.pdf” click on this PDF & all the pet shop foods come up that you can feed & are LOW fat..

Here’s is a Dog Food Guaranteed Analysis Calculator, save it..

Guaranteed Analysis Calculator

[Corinne J]

Steve’s Real Raw dog food uses dicalcium phosphate in their beef formula. I reached out to ask them why they use it, since beef is high in phosphate, and ground bones should provide enough calcium. Two emails and a phone call was ignored. I stopped feeding my dog their raw food because they apparently don’t care about their clients, and they are certainly NOT transparent about their dog food ingredients. I will also add that the product was very inconsistent from batch to batch.
Oh, and Steve no longer owns the company. Perhaps this is when it all went south.

[Susan]

Hi Hill,
the best diet for cats is a raw diet. Cats & dogs have short digestive tracts, made to digest a raw diet quickly…Cats who are feed a dry kibble normally end up with kidney problems…

You can buy Pre-made raw in freezer section or my cat loves Air Dried & Freeze Dried raw, I add water to the freeze dried balls & she loves it, once a week she gets 1/2 a raw chicken wing to help clean her teeth…
If your cats are feed a dry kibble & wet can food then the Freeze Dried or air Dried raw would be the best as some cats refuse to eat raw meat if brought up on a dry kibble, they will love eating the freeze dried raw or air dried raw, it’s similiar to kibble but freeze & air dried raw isnt over cooked at high temps or over processed like a dry kibble is…

Look at “Ziwi Peak” email Ziwi Peak & ask for Air Dried samples & if they have the raw wet can food samples aswell??
My cat inhales “Ziwi Peak”.
https://www.ziwipets.com/catalog/ziwi-peak-cat-nutrition

* Stella & Chewy
https://www.stellaandchewys.com/cat-food/freeze-dried-raw-dinners

“Raw feeding advice and support” face book group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/451782265003776/

[K F]

Please- try Halo brand kibble, if you are giving kibble. No recalls EVER; USA-sourced, no GMO’s, no meat sourced from inhumane factory farms, profits go to help other animals in need.
When I adopted my Husky 12 yrs ago, she had all sorts of GI issues…diarrhea, right and left. She had Giardia, which we treated….(make sure that your pup does not have this..) but, she would still react to the foods that I bought her- All organic, with high quality ingredients.
She FINALLY stopped having GI ‘events’ when I switched her to the Halo Spot’s Stew (it used to be called) kibble. Not grain-free…either the Chicken or the Salmon basic kibble. NO ISSUES at all, in the 10 years following.
I ALSO give my Husky a daily serving of human grade, cooked protein- either a can of wild caught salmon, sardines, or tuna in water. Occasionally some roasted turkey slices. I also feed her plenty of veggies, which she loves (frozen broccoli and green beans, and raw carrots..)
I agree with Kimberly, that raw food diets are very risky in that there are recalls every other day for e-coli or salmonella or listeria outbreaks… Why go through that? Particularly with a vulnerable puppy…. Dogs have been bred, over thousands and thousands of years, to be omnivores. They are not still wolves out in the wild, and don’t have the protective antibodies for spoiled or rotted meat anymore. Can people be real, here?
Anyway- best of luck to your baby! 🙂
If in doubt, just ask…”Would I want to eat this?”.. (If its not on the list of human foods that are toxic to dogs…its a great way to gage safely for your dog. 🙂 )

[Anon A]

Wow there is so much misinformation and fear mongering in this thread, your dog was sick most likely because of something bad like bacteria in the veggies or eggshells. Nothing to fear the raw meat, especially after you partially cooked the outer layer of the raw beef heart.

[zcRiley]

Budget cuts and mergers have driven quality control down, prices have doubled while the labeled bags contain much less over time. The (in)voluntary recalls are becoming alarming and you wonder if you should join the lawsuits out of fear or an actual mishap with your dog. It’s time vs money vs your anger. Yes, the kibble-raw-freeze dried-wet food buying community IS at the mercy of all brands. Anyone testing each bag for Salmonella and Listeria monocytogenes or “elevated” levels of certain vitamins? Not me, as I trustingly scoop the kibble out twice day, adding freeze dried on top, always wondering. And adding nutrients like I’m a canine nutritionist. With that said, I spend as much money as my bank account allows for food allergy panels, blood tests and anything else I need to do to “know” my dogs’ bodies throughout the year. Otherwise, we’re just sitting ducks as we may misinterpret the recalls. Yes, large class action lawsuits do have merit. I wouldn’t ignore how it became that way with thousands of medical issues and/or dog deaths documented. Again, “know” your dog every single day and be on top of the news. All dogs are NOT the same.

[christine v]

Susan,

The distributor mentioned Mypetwarehouse being the first online store to sell Orijen. The shipment should be here from the US any day now, or might already be here now, I’ve stopped texting the guy I’m dealing with because i was constantly bombarding him with texts, and i think i was annoying him lol. We are getting all of the formulas except for Regional red (the one i really wanted!!!) and Tundra.

Canidae told me they are working on getting in the raw coated kibble, but it is way down the road at this stage. I’ll text the Orijen guy again mid January, and will give you an update.

[Susan]

Hi Christine,
Which Orijen formula’s are coming here & who will be selling Orijen??
I’m looking for grain free, limited ingredients, has Pork & Sweet Potato or Potatoes…..
My Patch has IBD & I’ve been told “Wellness Simple” mighten be sold soon cause its not selling, it’s cause Pet Barn only sell the Wellness Simple thru Pet Barn online store & Pet Barn shops dont have the Wellness Simple in their shops so people dont see it, so no wonder it’s not selling + the price $130 for 11.8kg bag, its cheaper then a vet diet & has better ingredients then vet diet..,
if you buy Wellness Simple online at the moment its $89 -12kg bag, I think they’re getting rid al the Wellness Simple & are selling it cheaper at the moment BUT delivery from Pet Barn goes by weight it cost $15 for a 12kg order to be posted, other online pet store have free delivery, orders over $29-Pet Circle – free, My Pet Warehouse- orders over $49 – free delivery..
Are you sure 100% we are getting Origen?? cause Canidae was bringing out their new Ancestral raw coat Kibbles, they didnt come…they looked good.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-grain-free-pure-ancestral-raw-coated-dry-red-meat-formula-with-lamb-goat-wild-boar/
The people importing Earthborn Holistic said they were bringing out “Venture LID kibble” it didn’t come either.
When it comes to filling out all the importation forms etc Ive been told its very very hard to bring in pet foods thats why I like the imported pet foods cause I know they have to pass very strict laws, where their meats come from etc, where the Australian made pet food is not regulated anyone can make a dog or cat food if you live in Australia..
A heap of people are trying to change our pet laws, so no one can just make a dog or cat food they must do recalls straight away & tell pet owners there’s a problems if dogs are getting sick/dying, then when these Pet foods take off & get a good name they sell them too big pet food companies for $$$$$$$$, look at Black Hawk it was a really good dog food back 2008 a family run business then they sold it, then dogs got really sick the new owners were cutting corners buying cheaper meats/ingredients then the new owners sold it again, then again it was sold to Master Pet Food NZ owns Black Hawk now & the Original formula’s were reformulated & they made a new grain free line & had a quick & quiet recall 2-3months ago with the Black Hawk G/F Salmon formula, Master Pet Food released a statement & said they went thru a different Salmon supplier (Yeah a cheaper salmon supplier) least Black Hawk did a quick recall & made a Statement more then Advance did 1 year ago when dogs were dropping like flies after eating Advance Dermcare dry formula…
Black Hawk & Ivory Coat are made at the Dubbo plant…..
Ivory Coat was sold to Chinese is also made by the Real Pet Food Company, the Real Pet Food Company made Baxters Woolworths generic brand that was poisoning dogs 2017 & 2018..
https://realpetfoodco.com.au/our-company

I stay away from all Australian made pet foods now unless it’s an honest small business like “Frontier Pets” she shows everything she does where her meat comes from, where the organically grown veggies & fresh farm eggs come from & Patch doesnt get sick..

[pugmomsandy]

There are several brands with Limited Ingredients recipes. Earthborn Holistic’s Venture line, Wellness Simple, Nutro, Rawz, and Honest Kitchen, Addiction and Grandma Lucy’s to name a few.

[Susan]

Hi Christine,

Who told you we are getting Orijen in Australia??

We use to get Orijen but back in 2007 then Orijen over irradiated cat pet food, then FINALLY after so many deaths late November 2008 Orijen Pet Foods started recalling cat food due to all the death of cats in Australia.
Then our Government banned Orijen ever coming into Australian waters, Orijen never ever apologized to all the poor pet owners…

Was Irradiated Pet Food the cause of Cat deaths in Australia?

Look at

* “Frontier Pets”
Australian made dehydrated raw you just add some warm water its smells beautiful, its free range meats, orangic vegetables & eggs…
https://frontierpets.com.au/

* “Wellness Core Small Breed”
small kibbles made US, sold Pet Barn store’s, cheaper if you go online buy pet barn online store & Click & Collect or the Pet Barn lady can do it & you get cheaper then price at Pet Barn store.

Core Dog Products

* “Canidae Pure”
small kibbles made US sold My Pet Warehouse online or Pet Stock pet shops
https://www.canidae.com/au
none of these pet foods are Irradiated, I think its not done anymore?…..

Follow Pet Food Review- Australia on face Book page
https://www.facebook.com/PetFoodReviewsAustralia/
He has posted poison Duck dog treats that were Irradiated & NEVER put it on the front of treat packet, by law if any treats have been irradiated it must be stamped on front of treat packet so pet owners do not give to their cats, but pet food companies dont do this..

[Thomas C]

Hello, Before the long video commercial for DR Marty and his dehydrated food, my dogs were happily waking me up for their morning raw hamburger. Our dogs LOVE the DR Marty food, but after my four bags are eaten, we will probably return to raw beef.

[Sally R]

Primal charges around $28 for 14 ounces of freeze-dried raw food. It makes 3 pounds when hydrated. So Nature’s Blend doesn’t seem outrageously expensive. My dogs eat only raw food, and I do believe it is better than kibble.
But my question is the source of the ingredients. One of the problems is whether the meats are full of antibiotics and other toxins that can be detrimental to our dogs. Are the meats used in this food from free range or wild sources, and are all the ingredients organically sourced? If so, I’ll definitely order some.

[Pablo H]

I have a dog that had problems after spaying her, the stitches opened and a part of her intestines had to be taken out, I give her meat with rice or just raw meat, organs and meaty bones, she is underweight but perfectly healthy, dog food is a no go because of worsening of diarrhea (5 times a day and she loses weight, with meat and rice it’s just twice a day)

[Patricia A]

Ann Bixbi is very limited ingredients . This is Bixbi Beef ingredients
Beef, Beef Liver, Beef Kidney, Beef Bone, Pumpkin, Coconut Oil, Salmon Oil, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Mixed Tocopherols (a preservative), Rosemary Extract.
I feed their Rawbble freeze dried as toppers. Very pure food.
Dog Food Advisor rates their freeze dried a 5*. Hoping he does a review for 2019 of their kibble also.
Also: Diets in cases reported to the FDA frequently list potatoes or multiple legumes such as peas, lentils, other “pulses” (seeds of legumes), and their protein, starch and fiber derivatives early in the ingredient list, indicating that they are main ingredients. Early reports from the veterinary cardiology community indicate that the dogs consistently ate these foods as their primary source of nutrition for time periods ranging from months to years. https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm613305.htm

✅ “With any kibble, the issue is not the grain or lack of it. It is the fact that, in order to keep protein levels high, manufacturers are adding legumes, from which taurine cannot be converted.” https://truthaboutpetfood.com/fda-investigates-potential-connection-to-diet-and-heart-disease-in-dogs/

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Patricia A.