[anonymous]

https://www.gofromm.com/dog?specs=f_Attributes:Weight+Control!!-10!!

We switched from Zignature to Fromm due to the grain free scare, no problems with Zignature

Happy with Fromm and my vet approves.

All healthy dogs act like they are starving! Don’t let them fool you. Try a raw carrot once a day as a snack.

Do not use baby carrots they are bleached with chemicals and are a choking hazard due to their size.

[anonymous]

Yes, that’s correct.

There is no comparison between raw oats and seeds that are in bird feed to cooked processed oat ingredients and such that are in dog food.

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,
Don’t apologize, Anon started by posting

“BTW: Are you sure you were speaking to a nutritionist? ”

Anon101 always has to start she cant help herself…Why post that comment?
Has to be nasty.

Go on “Rodney Habib F/B page look for
“13 Worst Pet Foods of the Year” watch video.
https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib

I hope your not still feeding Purina, Purina made number 7 worst pet foods & Hills made number 1 worst pet foods.

These bigger the pet food companies, have more problems with their pet foods, there’s too many different brands & formula’s being made, heaps of cross contamination.. too many bosses, no one knows what the other hand is doing, also no one cares.. “It’s just dog food”
Ring & ask where does their meat come from, where does their ingredients (corn, oats, rice, barley, bran) come from, is it being sprayed?? they wont know, the ladies on the phones wouldn’t have a clue.

When Purina Pro Plan Bright Mind kibble was blind tested this year for toxins (another video on Rodney’s f/b page) Purina Pro Plan Bright Mind kibble came back high in Glyphosate (Round Up)… & this formula is for aging dogs..

Look for smaller pet food companies, who have a nutritionist on board who formulates their formula’s, who doesn’t use vitamin Pre Mixes from china (also on Rodney F/B page when Hills pet foods high in Vitamin D started)
With these smaller pet food companies the owner knows where the meat comes from, the owner is there daily making the kibble, the owner is there when people are complaining their dog is sick or dying, the owner hears the phone calls if there’s any, he starts stressing cause its his livelihood that suffers, the Pet Food quality is heaps better with smaller pet food companies, well that’s how it is in Australia, smaller batches are made & there’s better quality control, the only times we’ve had sick & dying dogs was bigger pet food companies, 2017-2018- Mars & Nestles -Advance Dermcare,
2019- Hills Pet Foods..
Baxter -2017-2018 Baxter a generic brand, we don’t know who was making Baxters, they bring out their lawyers,
we think it was a bigger pet food company – Mars and Nestles again..

Where were the Owners when Hills bought vitamins from China, where were the owners/shareholders when Advance bought toxic Tuna & Moldy Corn, everything was all hushed up, owners were paid off, Advance reformulated, got rid of their corn ingredients, where were owners when pet owners rung up crying my dog is sick with ME, my dog has just died from ME, my dog isn’t the same dog? These big Pet Food companies they don’t care.

Go with your gut, its always right.. feed more cooked or raw diet (whatever agrees best with your dogs).. & less, less kibble.
A tin/can of Salmon has heaps more nutrition & is healthier then a tin of pet food or a cup of kibble…
& yes Oat Groats sit & ferment in the dogs stomach, a big no no to feed dogs who have stomach/bowel problems..

[Jaky S]

I’ve been feeding Titan for 4 months. My dogs are thriving and its way more affordable than when I was preparing homemade raw/cooked. Eggs add fatty acids. Fish is a source of natural vitamin D and omega 3. Wheat germ oil adds vitamin E and omegas. If you are feeding raw without supplementation your foods will typically be low on iodine, vitamin d, magnesium, manganese and vitamin E. That is why dog food manufacturers supplement.

[Sanne]

Joanne, you asked for people’s opinions and Anon gave you their’s. Your response: “Please I know what I am saying and the nutritionist did say too much hard to digest fiber.“ If you think you know all about it already and supposedly already got a “nutritionist’s” opinion on it, why are you asking for other opinions if you are just going to argue and say you know more when someone does not agree with you?

And digestibility of any ingredient raw is not going to be the same once processed…

[Patricia A]

I know exactly how your feeling Stephanie. I was going nuts too between the recalls and now this DCM AND the thousands of brands and then reviews. Whether to give canned etc. Just going nuts with it all. I have three Chihuahuas’. One will be 17 in June. She has Mitral Valve disease . She still has quality of life. However she inspects her food for a few minutes in case I snuck in one of her heart pills. So at this point she gets all home cooked and I’ve found trick with her pills. Morning is wrapped in little piece of bread with a tiny bit of melted cheese . It works for NOW at least. Then comes boiled chicken, sweet potatoes mushed into a little canned fromm pate. At this point I am so glad she’s eating again and not trying all night with all kinds of foods, cans etc.
Then I have my other two. One eats everything, anything. My other is a little picky. I can just HOPE I’m doing the best for them. I have been giving a little Stella chewys kibble along with a little Stella’s freeze dried or freeze dried primal as topper. I just add a little warm water so it’s much easier then cans. Not that costly since they are small dogs. I like to mix the protein AND the brand so it’s variety and also I feel safer if one brand lacks “something”. If we have chicken I just boil a little for them and skip the freeze dried and just add the kibble. Same with steak, fish etc. For treats I give Bixbi Rawwble. They are just tiny, round freeze dried. I throw them a few at night. So far so good with health and stomach. Fingers crossed. I’m finally relaxed and not always searching for something better.

[Stefanie F]

Ann thank you so much. That is a big hep for the Dr Martys NATURE’S BLEND

Now let me ask do you think I am doing right or wrong and should make a change or stick with what I am doing with the kibble I am feeding.

Patrica thank you and to answer your question no weight is no problem at all. He is right where he should be for weight. He tends to put on a pound more in the winter but it comes right off once spring comes and we can get out more. But even with the 1 pound weight gain he is still in the normal weight for his size.

What I am concerned with is if I am feeding him good food or I should be making a change.

It is so hard because you give what you think is good food next thing you no they tell you grain free is bad or this brand is bad and i just do not know what to do or think any more.

I do not want to poison my dog and I want to give him a good food.

Sorry all I am just so overwhelmed and with everything in life I am looking to you all for some you are feeding ok or no give him this food instead.

Thank you all for listening and the help.

I wish I had the time and money to go raw of just cook for him myself but I do not.

[Patricia A]

I don’t know if you’re bichon is a little overweight so that is your concern. Yes, between the fruit yogurt and even the fruit you give frequently that does contain sugar would start to put weight on a small dog. Sounds like you’re doing a good job but need maybe a little something so you don’t feel guilty when the begging starts. I give my small Chihuahuas a divided hard boiled egg in morning. It’s easy since I just boil maybe two the nights before. Has protein but not the sugar. Maybe you can substitute watermelon in tiny pieces instead of the apple. While watermelon does contain fruit sugar —fructose — like all other fruits, it’s nearly 92 percent water. Just because it tastes sweet doesn’t make it high in sugar. Also maybe a raw carrot when you want to keep him busy. But really can’t keep tossing food or will be overweight. Just a good back rub and a “oh you’re such a good boy” instead of the food. Hope this help.

[haleycookie]

There are no pet stores anywhere near you?
Canned raw pumpkin is good for digestion. Maybe not the best idea everyday though. You can use any quality canned food as a topper to mix the supplements in. Would be balanced food and free of sugar. Maybe try pure balance canned food. I’ve heard a lot of people whom don’t have pet stores around them that like the pure balance food. Any canned like merrick, wellness, even blue buffalo have ok stew canned foods. I think blue is at Walmart too.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by haleycookie.

[Stefanie F]

haleycookie

I live in a city so no goats milks or raw around. Is there a yogurt or soft type food so I can mix his probiotic powder he needs in it that I can get at a walmart type market?

We do not even have a wholefood around and all the smaller mom and pop markets that carried more specialized stuff walmart has drove out of business . So we are at the mercy of chain markets like walmart and price chopper.

I just need something I can give him in the morning I can mix his probiotic in. A yogurt or canned pumpkin, or something.

Thanks for the help.

[Stefanie F]

Dr Martys NATURE’S BLEND

Any one know of it and have any good or bad thoughts about it?

I have a small dog a bichon weight of around 14/15 pound he is about 8 now.

I have been feeding for morning a tablespoon of fruit yogurt with probiotic powder mixed in. (He was getting 1/2 cup of cheerios but am no longer doing that due to the pesticides in them)

Then at night 1/2 cup of mixed ORIJEN Dry Dog Food, Six Fish, and Acana Meadowlands Dry Dog .

He also gets a lot of table veggies and fruits. He eats what ever I am having for fruit and veggies. So if I have bruss sprouts he gets them that night, If I have salad he will get tomato and cucumber. If I am eating an apple he will have some a well.

He is a good begger.

I have seen the lawsuit info on champion pet foods. I have read about the grain free is bad now. I also know neither ORIJEN or Acana have ever had a recall and it seems like every other brand has. (He eats this out of a a tug-a-jug to slow him down and keep him busy for a half hour)

I am at a total loss of if I am doing good or bad by my dog.

I can not go raw, and I do not have the time to cook for him daily. So I have to have either a freeze dried, kibble, or can I can take with me.

I care for 3 elderly people all in different places and the dog comes with me so I have to have something I can easily toss in a bag and go as I never know where I am going to be.

I did post something a few weeks back and got jumped on about giving him his tablespoon of fruit yogurt because of sugar. I always read fruit was good for dogs and he will not eat plain yogurt. So it seems even when I think I am doing good by him I am not.

So I really need some advice.

• This topic was modified 4 years ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Fix Duplicate Topic Title

[Michael P]

I can’t find a review or any comments about Dr. Marty’s Natures Blend dog food. What are your thoughts on this brand of freeze dried raw dog food? Thank you.

[anonymous]

I am sure that the treating veterinarian at the animal hospital will make recommendations regarding diet as part of the dog’s discharge treatment plan and instruct you to follow up with your veterinarian.

Obviously the dog will have to be on a special diet for the rest of it’s life. I think a raw or homemade diet is about the worst thing you could do.

There are no veterinary healthcare professionals affiliated with this site.

This dog will probably need to be seen by the vet frequently for the rest of her life. They will be able to advise you and make dietary changes accordingly depending upon the findings after every exam.

Best of luck

[Anne A]

My sweet Australian Labradoodle was hit by a car last week which resulted in 70% removal of her small intestine. I am interested in learning about what others have experienced with this disorder and what food would be best for her. Would a raw diet be best and homemade food? Does anyone have recipes to share?
She is still in the hospital but we hope she will be able to come home soon.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Anne

[haleycookie]

This foods a little carb heavy. I’d prefer to see it around 60-70-% meat content.
Are u by a chance from Europe? Usually US foods don’t break the ingredients up like this.
DCM seems to largely be an American thing with little to no reports in other countries. If you are from Europe I probably wouldn’t worry or jump to any conclusion. As the fda has stated to not switch foods without first speaking with a vet and having an echo of the heart done. Get them on a high meat food, try less processed foods like canned food, freeze dried raw, and frozen raw. Taurine is found in fresh meat and heart muscle. Not in grains or any other carb on earth.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by haleycookie.

[Sanne]

Yes, even non grain free Fromm has cases. And contrary to the post above, there have been a few cases with raw fed dogs too, not just kibble fed dogs.

This is happening with all kinds of breeds of all sizes. And not just simply on grain free foods. According to the studies done so far, all we know is the food is a major factor but not WHY the food is causing this. One study (I think from UC Davis?) showed that all but one of the dogs in the study that had diet caused DCM improved after changing the diet, something that is not possible with genetic DCM. That alone says a lot.

I also do not trust any source that states “we know for a fact corn and wheat have no benefits to dogs..” it’s laughable considering we have numerous studies on the specific nutrients dogs utilize from corn gluten meal. Does it make it a necessary ingredient? No, but it sure makes it obvious someone likes to ignore science when making such a sweeping statement…

[Mike S]

Thanks! Sometimes I consider going raw, but I feel like a good quality kibble is a good base nutrition to add fresh proteins too.

[haleycookie]

You’re feeding him tons of sugar and you’re worried about the glyphosphate? Instead of the fruit yogurt and Cheerios use chicken broth, pumpkin purée for fiber, and add some cooked or raw egg, or chocked or raw chicken into his diet as a topper. You can also get freeze dried toppers or wet food. I would cut all that sugar from his diet if you can. Or if you’re insistent on having some type of yogurt try organic kefir or raw goats milk. It’s more appropriate for dogs than sugar filled fruit yogurt.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by haleycookie.

[Jack M]

You may need to try several different limited-ingredient diet foods. Your dog could be allergic to the potato, the rabbit, or something else in that particular brand. Try a different brand with completely different protein and carb source.

It takes a lot of time to try a diet. You need about a week to switch. Then, you need to spend 2 or 3 weeks on a diet before you know it will work. It’s kind of frustrating when you don’t get immediate feedback. You have to wait for the reaction to the old food to subside before drawing a conclusion.

One of my dogs is very allergic to chicken and somewhat sensitive to rice. When she was on commercial food, she could eat food with fish, lamb, and potato.

Now that she’s on a raw diet, she gets lamb, goat, beef, mackerel, and canned salmon without any itching issues. I accidentally gave her a ground organ blend that included some chicken and the itching came back.

https://ecopetlife.com/best-food-german-shepherds-skin-allergies/

[Patricia A]

Anon I use wrapped bully sticks made in USA. They chew for about 15 minutes and then I take it away. I’ve been letting both of mine chew on these for over eight years. As a pet owner I am very observant when something I fed caused vomiting or diarrhea. Never once in all the years has this happened. I would imagine if it’s so contaminated with bacteria that many dogs would be experiencing upset. At my local food store the bin is always low because it sells out after delivery by end of week.Most pet owners would take note that after their dog chews on bully sticks they get violently ill. I do give raw baby carrots to my one. The other one throws it all up the next day so she does not get them anymore.
Nothing is bacteria free. Even the great “big four”. Purina below

Nestle Purina Commits ‘Significant Violations’ at Pet Food Canning Plant

Article below includes of course Royal CANIN (Mars)
Millions’ of roaches plagued maker of Pedigree, IAMS, Cesar, other pet foods

By Phyllis Entis on June 7, 2018
The Mars Petcare U.S. Inc. low-acid canned pet food production facility in Columbus, OH, was crawling with an infestation of German cockroaches between October 2016 and July 2017. Mars markets wet dog and cat foods in cans, plastic tubs, and laminated pouches under the Pedigree, Cesar, Whiskas, Nutro and IAMS brands.

Pet food from the plant also generated consumer complaints about finding hard plastic pieces and a complaint about a elastic material in Mars’ pet foods.

On Oct. 7, 2016, Mars initiated a recall of 54,255 cases of CESAR Classics Filet Mignon Flavor canned dog food after the complaints about plastic. The recalled products were shipped to 36 states, including to three government facilities.

Ensuing inspections found the company had not completed repairs as promised.

Documents obtained by Food Safety News show during a July 2017 inspection of the Columbus facility, investigators from the Food and Drug Administration observed two significant deviations from current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMP):

Failure to inspect, segregate, or otherwise handle raw materials and ingredients used in manufacturing under conditions that will protect the animal food against contamination and minimize deterioration; and
Failure to take effective measures to exclude pests from [the] plant and protect against contamination of animal food by pests.
Roaches and other pests
The infestation was first documented during an Oct. 27, 2016, comprehensive low-acid canned food (LACF) inspection by FDA, according to documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

Although Mars management undertook to address and remedy the infestation in October 2016, FDA investigators observed a live roach in the manufacturing area adjacent to an area where in-process raw materials and ingredients are maintained, and another near the main hand-wash station at the entrance to the manufacturing area during the July 2017 inspection.

According to the company’s Employee Pest Sighting Log, there were 99 instances of pest activity observed during a 72-day period from Nov. 10, 2016, to July 14, 2017, including one instance described as “millions of roaches.”

Employees also reported birds, spider webs, beetles, multiple flies, maggots and larvae on several occasions.

Mars contracts with a pest control operator (PCO) for routine rodent and insect control.

During their review of the PCO’s reports, FDA investigators found references to photographic evidence of pest activity, disrepair of dock doors, general disrepair of the building — including areas of ingress and egress — excessive spills of raw materials and damaged cans “covered” in flies. The photographs had not been retained by the company.

Several of the PCO observations regarding necessary repairs were repeated in multiple consecutive reports. For example, damage to a dock door was first reported on or about Sept. 26, 2016. The report was repeated after each visit until the door was finally repaired on or about Nov. 3, 2016.

Foreign objects – pieces of plastic
In addition to ongoing pest problems, Mars logged repeated violations related to the pieces of hard plastic that spurred the Oct. 7, 2016, recall.

During a March 31, 2017, recall follow-up inspection, Mars informed FDA that the firm had fully implemented corrective actions/preventative actions (CAPAs), including changing all food-contact white plastic material to a blue plastic material, enabling the presence of white plastic foreign objects to be detected more easily.

Despite this assurance, FDA inspectors were told on July 11, 2017, that only the “majority” of the belts and plastic wear plates on critical equipment had been changed out by that date.

As of the July 2017 inspection, Mars acknowledged that it was still receiving complaints from customers about foreign objects in its finished products.

FDA has received two new consumer complaints for plastic foreign objects in Mars canned, tubbed or pouched products since the inspection, according to an agency spokesperson. One of these was for an elastic-type object and the other was for two small, hard plastic pieces. The consumer did not provide a product lot number in the second case, and it is unclear whether the two complaints concerned product manufactured in the Columbus facility.

Refusals and obstruction
The Establishment Inspection Report (EIR) documents a lack of cooperation on the part of Mars management during the July 2017 inspection.

FDA investigators reported Mars officials refusing to cooperate on three points three during the course of the inspection, including:

Refusal to permit photography
Refusal to permit the review of consumer complaints
Refusal to provide photocopies of consumer complaints, manufacturing, shipping and pest control records.
In addition to the outright refusals reported in the EIR, investigators encountered delays in the production of requested documents and information, and denial of complete access to all areas of the facility.

When faced with a refusal, FDA investigators are expected to call attention to the relevant section of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act or the Public Health Service Act, and then to complete the inspection, according to Chapter 5 of the FDA Investigations Operations Manual (2018).

The company’s lack of cooperation resulted in a delay in the completion of the inspection, which was begun on July 11, 2017, but was not completed for more than two weeks, on July 26.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.

[anonymous]

Dangers of Bully Sticks: Popular Treat Can Carry Bacteria and Add Calories

Excerpt below
Even if you can get past the issue of feeding your dog an uncooked, dried penis of a bull or steer as a treat, there are more potential problems with bully sticks. One is that they may be contaminated with bacteria. We tested 26 bully sticks for bacteria and found that one was contaminated with methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA), a type of staph bacteria that is resistant to certain antibiotics; one was contaminated with Clostridium difficile; and seven were contaminated with Escherichia coli (including one antibiotic-resistant sample). This certainly doesn’t prove that all bully sticks are contaminated but does emphasize the importance of washing your hands after touching these treats, as you should with any raw meat or raw meat diets. People at high risk (very young, elderly, pregnant, or immunocompromised individuals) should avoid all contact with raw animal-based treats and raw meat diets.

[anonymous]

“Natural” means sh*t and is a marketing ploy.

Just give the dog a raw carrot to chew on once a day (not the baby carrots they are bleached and are a choking hazard due to their size)

Bully sticks are bull penises, they are loaded with bacteria and bleached and processed with toxic chemicals.

Ask your vet.

Example:
https://www.azrescue.org/rescue-article-info-center/19 excerpt below
There are a lot of pet treats out on the market and it seems like every week a new brand is getting recalled. I don’t even touch any chicken jerky manufactured in China due to the widespread contamination problems.
More recently I’ve been choosing deer antlers and bully sticks, thinking that they’re safer since they’re all natural. But according to a study published in the Canadian Veterinary Journal, there are two potential problems with bully sticks (also called pizzle sticks).
The first concern is an excessive amount of calories. The scientists calculated nine to 22 calories per inch, meaning that a 6-inch bully stick could represent nine percent of the daily recommended calorie count for a 50-pound dog or a whopping 30 percent of the requirements for a smaller 10-pound dog. This I’m less worried about as I usually adjust my pets’ dinner if they get a large treat during the day.
The second finding is much more serious. In testing 26 bully sticks, the researchers found one contaminated with Clostridium difficile, one with methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA), and seven with E. coli. The scientists admitted that the sample size was small, but recommended that people should at least wash their hands after touching bully sticks.
I hope that they repeat the study on a larger scale, differentiating by finishing process. Some bully stick companies sun-bake their product, while others irradiate or bake the sticks indoors. I’m sure that these differences can affect bacteria levels.
It would also be good if they gave recommendations on how to get rid of the bacteria. I know that some people bake bully sticks in the oven before giving them to their pets, but it’s not a proven method.
I think that this study goes to show how careful we have to be in researching our pets’ food. I already know a lot about picking a good kibble, but this study has inspired me to do a better job at finding out the origin and manufacturing process for the treats I feed my crew. And it underscores the many benefits of making your own treats at home!

[aimee]

Hi joanne

When I read the Cooking light article like you I thought Yuck! But when I read the actual FDA report that the article is based on I came away with a whole different perspective.

Yes, there was plastic in the food traced back to incoming fresh frozen beef by products ( spleens lungs and gullets) Not sure why Cooking Light reported it was from broken equipment at that plant. The Company did change out their plastic to blue to distinguish it from the white plastic that apparently was not uncommonly found in raw materials.
By doing so they would know for sure where to focus their efforts if additional plastic was found and be able to confidently go back to the supplier and say it was from them.

Yes they had roaches. The 99 instances of pest activity were over 7 plus months not 72 days and in most cases were for a single roach. The company had employees self report if they saw any pest activity. Frankly, I think it was a wise guy employee that wrote “millions of roaches” The most the pest control company reported finding was a one time report of 250. The company had ongoing pest control and when the problem wasn’t eradicated hired an entomologist. So yes roaches were found and the company was addressing it.

I’d encourage anyone to read the original report and make their decisions based on the original report. https://truthaboutpetfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/MarsEIR2017.pdf

[Bobby dog]

“Spend time reading/read the units and you will read what moderators say: there are hard & fast rules for the group. It’s science based. Opinions on many points aren’t allowed. They will be deleted. Recommend non WSAVA compliant foods….it will be deleted. Recommend home cooked or raw without being designed by a nutritionist (with credentials I’m not positive about)….it will be deleted…There is no “I think my food is following”…..they either are or they aren’t. It’s not an interpretation…Again….it’s a FB group. Don’t like what they say? Leave.”

What InkedMarie wrote, it’s pretty simple…

[InkedMarie]

Here is what I don’t get. IF we’re all talking about the same group, when you join, you agree to read the units. Quite obviously, many people don’t. Read the units, spend a little time reading posts and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see what the group is there for and who runs it.

Professionals started the group…ie Dr Joshua Stern and many others. I will listen to their recommendations over anyone else. They recommend feeding foods that follow WSAVA guidelines. It’s that simple. That’s the recommendation. Currently, Royal Canin, Science Diet, Eukanuba, Iams and Purina are the only WSAVA compliant. There is no “I think my food is following”…..they either are or they aren’t. It’s not an interpretation. If you think your food is, print out the guidelines and call the company. See if they are compliant. The hopes is that other companies will start following the guidelines.

Spend time reading/read the units and you will read what moderators say: there are hard & fast rules for the group. It’s science based. Opinions on many points aren’t allowed. They will be deleted. Recommend non WSAVA compliant foods….it will be deleted. Recommend home cooked or raw without being designed by a nutritionist (with credentials I’m not positive about)….it will be deleted.

It does not matter who works for who…..and I have no clue who does nor do I care. Everyone has to earn a living. If the food follows WSAVA compliant, it is recommended.

If you don’t like the group, leave. It’s that simple. It’s Facebook people. There are other groups.

If you’re here asking questions and we discuss DCM and post links to help….read them. Stop asking about other foods & if they’re good for this issue. We’ve told you what the recommendation is. If you don’t want to feed those foods….fine. It’s hard to be passionate about this issue, try to help then have people ignore. I will only continue to post in hopes others are reading and may be somewhat educated.

Again….it’s a FB group. Don’t like what they say? Leave. I have said that for years about DFA. Don’t like the reviews? There are other sites that may be to your liking.

[InkedMarie]

In the group I am in, raw and home cooked are fine as long as a board certified nutritionist (I cannot remember exactly what the credentials have to be) designs the “recipe”.

[crazy4cats]

I have been a member of the group for about 9 months. They actually had a raw feeder as a moderator for a while and there still might be another. They recommend if you feed raw or homemade to work with a board-certified veterinary nutritionist. And, they have a list of them to contact.

They don’t bash any foods. They just ask that no one recommend a brand that is not in compliance with the WSAVA recommendations. It’s all spelled out and you have to agree to these terms to join.

Yes, there have been dogs diagnosed with nutritional mediated DCM that were raw fed.

[haleycookie]

@sanne, perhaps you are in a different group? I did 100% see several people being told raw and home cooked diets are not a balanced and can still cause dcm just like grain free (which btw hasn’t even been proven yet so…) and they were quickly told to switch to proplan or hills becuase that’s “proper nutrition” and formulated by a nutritionalist.
There were no such link or information you speak of when I was a part of the group. Just non stop bashing of quality foods and raw-home cooked diets. Perhaps they’ve changed their ways now to not be so narrow minded.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

Hills is owned by Colgate. Like the toothpaste company. Idk if there are multiple but there is one production factory here in my state. Smells absolutely disgusting when you drive by it.

And of course there’s some conflict of interest in these companies and how they’re the only ones that can fit into wsava requirements. Wsava was make by and for those three companies. I would tread cautiously.

Feed your dog a meat based food (better yet rotate multiple meat based foods) add canned food, raw toppers, raw chicken hearts, bone broth, etc and feed as much fresh foods as possible. Don’t over feed, make sure the dog gets proper exercise, and regular vet visits. These are the best things you can do. I would avoid carb loaded foods such as the big 5 foods being recommended currently. Taurine isn’t found in any type of carb, it’s found in fresh meat and organs. People seem to be forgetting that.

[haleycookie]

Other than the two mentioned I’ve never come across anything else. Usually companies who use grain use massive amounts to cheapen cost. Maybe to add more variety you can look at pre made raw foods or dehydrated foods like spots farms.

[Bobby dog]

The article you posted from Cooking Light is about the Cesar dog food recall in 2016, not of any of the other Mars owned brands..

“During this time, multiple consumers also complained about finding hard plastic pieces and elastic material in their pet’s food. The plastic was traced back to broken equipment at the plant. After consumers discovered foreign material in the canned food in 2016, Mars recalled 54,255 cases of CESAR Classics Filet Mignon Flavor.” ~ 4th paragraph Cooking Light

There are several links in the article as well, one being to the FDA site. I only found this announcement concerning the Cesar 2016 recall on the FDA site. It only addresses plastic in the food not any of the other alleged observations written about in the article so I am not sure where the rest of the info was gathered from.
https://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls-market-withdrawals-safety-alerts/mars-petcare-us-announces-voluntary-recall-limited-number-cesarr-classics-filet-mignon-flavor-wet

Regardless, I have always found it best to ask the company in question specific written questions so I can reference info when needed. Good luck.

[Bobby dog]

The above quote is from Wiki about RC, not from the “Cooking Light” article you posted a link to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Canin

The Cooking Light article is about Cesar dog food recalls, not RC or any of Mars other brands.
https://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls-market-withdrawals-safety-alerts/mars-petcare-us-announces-voluntary-recall-limited-number-cesarr-classics-filet-mignon-flavor-wet

Mars does not make pet food, they own companies that make pet food and other products. As I wrote above, RC has it’s own facilities and team members.

The best thing to do is ask RC directly:
https://www.royalcanin.com/us/contact-us#Contact us

[Patricia A]

So very sorry about your dogs passing. My Chloe also died from pneumonia . . She had no symptoms until I noticed at her walk that day.she would keep stopping with labored breathing. Took her to our long time vet same day. Unfortunately, when diagnosed with x-rays we trusted him when he assured us to just give antibiotics and take her into a steamy shower tap to loosen congestion on her chest and she’ll be fine He wasn’t concerned .Early the next morning we rushed her back to vets office when her breathing got worse .. We were told race to the large animal emergency hospital 15 minutes away. She died in my arms as we pulled into parking lot. We still feel such guilt . She was struggling to breath that night but since I got two antibiotics into her we thought because of assurance from vet, that breathing would improve and she’ll be fine. She was 13 and we and vet should have been more concerned at that age . I mean how could a vet see a dog the day before her death and not know she was very ill. This was many years ago but tears are still coming from my eyes thinking about this. Vet and head vet from office called to apologize . I think they thought we would sue. Mistakes are made so must forgive him and ourselves.
Regarding the enlarged heart. Many small breeds have genetic chronic mitral valve disease (CMVD) . That is what my soon to be 17 year old Chihuahua has. So if your vet didn’t clarify after ultrasound is DCM then especially if she was a small breed the enlarged heart could be from mitral valve disease. This type never has anything to do with diet.
I feed Stella’s also. Their kibble has a lot of peas/legumes. They assure me that their small breed chicken has high protein coming from meat vs legumes. However, kibble is a tiny part of their diet. Mostly mine eat Stella’s freeze dried chicken and turkey flavor/protein. I rotate to be safe with Primal turkey/sardine and duck. I also feed Bixbi rawwble in beef and chicken and salmon. I started VERY slowly with each protein/brand and now I just mix it up every few months. They also get our cooked food when appropriate. Hope this helps.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.

[haleycookie]

Stella and chewy is 100% balanced raw dog food. And a biologically appropriate one at that so no need for anything different. You may look into some of weruva canned foods. I believe some of th dogs contain no veggie matter. I know that cat ones are almost free of veggies but I can’t remember if that dog ones are.
And just a reminder taurine comes from fresh meat and organs. Not grains, not over processed kibble and not peas. So sticking with a meat and organ rich raw diet would be ideal.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by haleycookie.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by haleycookie.

[crazy4cats]

Ruby H-
Even if the food had anything to do with it, which I doubt, we need to put the blame on the company making it. Not on you!!

I’m very sorry to hear about your pup. It is so hard when they pass. Especially, when they can’t talk and tell us what is going on with them. Definitely, the hardest part of owning them. But, I will still always have one or two, (or three!)

Unfortunately, there have been a few dogs diagnosed with diet-related DCM that were being fed raw. Are you working with a veterinarian nutritionist? The FB group I provided below has a link for raw feeders to certified animal nutritionists that work with people who feed raw.

The article that Anon posted is not SkeptVet’s latest on the subject. This one is: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/12/evidence-update-grain-free-and-other-beg-diets-associated-with-heart-disease-in-dogs/

I have golden labs and joined a FB group run by mostly veterinarians that are following the science-based facts regarding this very subject. Check it out: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TaurineDCM/

The also have a website with helpful information: https://taurinedcm.org/

Surprisingly, I switched to Purina ProPlan and my dogs are doing great. They had an echocardiogram a few weeks ago after having been fed it for about 8 months and they are fine. Thank goodness!

Hope this helps!

[anonymous]

Hope this helps:

Grain-free Diets and Heart Disease in Dogs

You can use the search engine there to look up other topics such as “raw”

The comments are often informative too.

[joanne l]

Sorry to hear about your dog. Please don’t blame yourself! As far as diet goes, you can certainly feed raw, but it is not balanced. Give your dog a good grain in dry food along with the other things you give. I don’t know much about Stella’s maybe someone else that knows more can help you there. Try Purina Pro Plan, Wellness products, maybe merrick grain in formulas. Choose ones that been around a long time with nutritional experts on staff. I know it is a lot to take in, but the FDA is warning against grain free and exotics meats, which is kangaroo, duck, venison, bison. Just listen to the FDA until they find out what is going on. Example I do feed grain in dry food along with rare steak, or cooked chicken, tuna and rice. I do use can once in awhile when I am lazy.

[Ruby H]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here so hope I’m doing this right. I just found out about BEG/grain free foods being linked to dogs developing Dilated Cardiomyopathy. As far as I see the issue is thought to come from legume heavy diets, preventing pets from absorbing taurine? Please correct me if I’m wrong, I’ve taken in so much information within the past few days.

Is raw food still ok for dogs to eat since most do not contain legumes? I had previously fed Stella and Chewy’s raw food, then started to incorporate Weruva dry food to cut down on costs, but I now realized that chickpeas are the third ingredient so I’ve been mixing in more raw and transitioning out the Weruva. Also one of my dogs just passed away from what the vet said was pneumonia caused by bronchitis, but they also saw that his heart was enlarged when they did x-rays. I don’t know if this food contributed to that or not but I feel awful that something I fed him could’ve hurt him.

Any suggestions or advice?

[Simba C]

Hi, I don’t have a dog yet but I may be adopting one this summer. I’ve recently learned about raw feeding and I think it’s much better than feeding kibble, but I do have a few questions.

Which is cheaper? Commercial or homemade?
I live near My Pet Carnivore and was thinking of ordering their food. Will I need to add supplements for their whole grounds?
How do I prevent bacteria from the raw meat spreading when the dog runs around the house? I live with the elderly and young children.
There seems to be no vet near me that supports raw feeding, I’ve emailed them and they all say it’s nutritionally imbalanced and I should not be doing it. How do I convince them otherwise?
I don’t have a local co-op but my friend is thinking of doing raw as well, can we make a mini co-op together?

Thanks.

[anonymous]

Integrating Myths and Nonsense with Standard Advice for Allergic Pets

excerpt below, click on link for full article and comments

“Of course, I’ve written about the raw diet nonsense before, and there is, once again, no evidence that raw diets have any benefit in terms of preventing or treating allergies. As for supplements, apart from limited evidence that fish oils can reduce the dosage of other drugs needed to control allergy symptoms, there is no solid data to support supplement recommendations. Overall, this section makes erroneous and misleading implications about the causes of food allergies, recommends a dubious diagnostic test, and then suggests treatments that have not been demonstrated to help”.

Hair and Saliva Test for Allergies are Worthless Pseudoscience

excerpt below, click on link for full article and comments

Hair and Saliva Test for Allergies are Worthless Pseudoscience
Posted on November 6, 2018 by skeptvet
There is a lot of mythology out there about food allergies. The recent concern about the potential risks of grain-free diets is only an issue at all because such diets became wildly popular with no evidence that grains were a problem in the first place. A lot of folks blame grains for allergies and other health problems, but there’s no real evidence this is true, and these ingredients probably play a fairly minor role in food allergies in dogs and cats.
Other myths about food allergies include the idea that changing diets can cause them (actually, prolonged exposure is usually needed to develop a sensitivity), that raw foods are less allergenic (nope, only more likely to give you a food-borne illness), and that you can use blood, hair, or saliva tests to diagnose food allergies (sorry, a limited ingredient diet trial is the only way to do this). This last misconception is perpetuated despite evidence from human medicine that it is not true because, quite frankly, it makes people money.

[Bud J]

Hi, I’m just getting started in researching dog food. I’ve been fostering my current pup, Grayson, for about a year. He has seizures about once a week and is on keppra, phenobarbital and hemp. I’m currently doing research and looking for support because he is dealing with substantial allergies and I’m highly suspecting it’s food allergies. He has a lot of itching, chews at his feet and has bald spots and scabbing around his hips, hind legs and groin area. He has been an itchy dog pretty much entire time I’ve had him but the scabbing is by far the worst it’s ever been.

He was put on a steroid for a couple weeks which really helped, but had it’s own side effects. The last 2 dog foods we’ve had are American Journey Grain Free Salmon and Sweet Potato and True Acre Foods Chicken and Vegetable Grain Free. He was mostly eating True Acre when the symptoms got bad, but then switched to American Journey and symptoms continued to progress. Both foods have chicken as a main ingredient and therefore I’m thinking he’s reacting to chicken. As of 2 days ago, I switched him to a Heritage Ranch Salmon and Sweet Potato Food only because it was the only dog food at my store which didn’t have chicken as a main ingredient.

So, I’m currently l’m looking into switching him to a different simple ingredient dog food. Canidae salmon and sweet potato is the one I’m leaning towards, but I’m also researching doing a raw diet.
I’m sure there’s several posts on this site which have helpful info, but wanted to introduce myself and I’ll start searching around to see what others have already posted.

Thank you,
Grandpa J

[Sanne]

Amazing what people will make up. Raw and home cooked feeders are deleted? BS. I am a member of that group and see people post about raw/homemade quite often. In fact, they have links in that group to help you find a nutritionist to formulate a raw or home cooked food for you. If you want to be blind to the information that is out there, fine. But what is the point of spreading lies?

[CHRISTINE C]

I know I am very late to this post but – I have been feeding Titan Blue Fine Grind for a little over a year. I switched all 3 of my dogs, including a German Shepherd that has EPI. Previously fed Merrick kibble. My dogs have thrived on this raw diet. It is easy, inexpensive (compared to sourcing meat myself) and I it has increased their quality of life. My 13 year old lab acts like he is a puppy.

[christine v]

Aimee, well yeah that story seem totally ridiculous, and is obviously made up crap.
When i was in the dcm groups, i saw members post that that they have dogs on Purina that have had DCM, posts AND members are instantly deleted. Members feeding raw/home cooked with DCM dogs, deleted. Anyone who dares mention all the other foods other than the big 4 are not welcome. I’m in many dog feeding forums and hear all the stories from previous members that were in the dcm groups, and the behaviour and scaremongering tactics that come out of those groups is pretty despicable. The absolute bottom line is to get people off of whatever they’re feeding and onto the big 4. Purina is a huge player and presence there, and a little bit of skepticism and critical thinking may help you take the blinders off.. I was a member for a few days and left in disgust and disappointment.

[Susan]

Hi Denis,

Look into feeding Freeze Dried raw..

“Buckley Liberty” formula’s came 1st, 2nd 3rd & 4th when 299 best selling dog foods were tested for Heavy Metals, Contaminates & Toxins, these dog foods are tested every 3-4 months & Buckley has stayed on top..
https://buckleypet.com/collections/all/products/liberty-fresh-dry-food-for-dogs

Also look at “Stella & Chewy”
https://www.stellaandchewys.com/raw-feeding/what-is-right-for-you/

Start rotating between a few good brands, never just feed the same brand of dog food, this is when the dog can start to react to an ingredient.

[Susan]

Hi Denis,

Sound like your GSD had a Furunculosis on his bum, my boy has IBD, Seasonal Skin Allergies (Summer/Autumn) & he has food sensitivities, food allergies are rare & the dog normally will suffer with IBD when he/she suffers with food allergies..
Anal furunculosis is a chronic, progressive inflammatory disease of dogs that results in ulceration and inflammation in the area surrounding the anus.

Here’s link – “What is Idiopathic Furunculosis (German Shepherds)?”
https://wagwalking.com/condition/idiopathic-furunculosis-german-shepherds

If your dog is eating the Hills Z/d vet diet, after 1 month if he is doing firm poos, no farts, no skin problems & he is doing really well this is when you start a food elimination diet & try too work out what ingredients your dog is sensitive too?? that’s if it is food related?? its Spring in America it could be environment allergies or his immune system is crashing from Allergies or vaccinations?? it takes a while doing food elimination diets, 1 month to trial 1 new ingredient at a time to his Hypoallergenic vet diet, it can take 20mins up to 6 weeks for the dog to react, with itchy skin, ears, red around mouth, paws, gas/wind/farts, vomiting, itchy yeasty ears, skin, anal gland problems take a bit longer 4-7days when dog is reacting to an ingredient..
I found Patch reacted within 20mins of eating raw or cooked chicken, when he eats grains & carrots he took up to 5 days to react with sloppy yellow poo, farts & yeasty smelly skin & ears…
Results are 100% correct with food elimination trial. Blood, Fur& Salvia testing can give false positives results, they’re a waste of money also it’s best to do food elimination diet in the cooler months when allergen are lower, its hard in Spring & Summer as your dog might be itchy cause of a plant, tree, grass, flowers, pollens in yard or next door & you think its what he’s eating & its not, keep a diary you will start to see a pattern with Seasonal Environment Allergies, also baths weekly, baths are best to wash off any allergens on skin, paws head etc ….
I wipe Patch down with baby wipes days I don’t bath him, read the ingredients in the baby wipes & get the baby wipes that have Aloe leaf abstract in them, also Patch was getting furunculosis on bum & paws, when his immune system was down, when I first rescued him, so now after he poos I always wipe his bum with baby wipes & I wipe down his paws when he walks on wet grass or freshly cut grass he gets red paws..

Get some “Sudocrem” its an anti-fungal, anti bacterial healing cream, for Dermatitis, Eczema, Nappy Rash, Pressure Sores, if you live US look on Amazon & I’ve read Walmart has started to sell Sudocrem, its an excellent cream… it heals sores, cuts, red paws, thinning of fur on head, excellent for itchy bum, when they scoot (bum surf)
Make sure his immune system is healthy & its best to see a Dermatologist as they specialize in skin..

Look at “Adored Breast” Healthy Gut & Love Bugs (Pre & Pro Biotics) made by Julie Anne Lee

Please watch these videos below when you have the time, Julie explains what might be happening with your dog.

Here’s Julie Anne Lee – Allergies, Skin Disease, or Autoimmune – PT 1

Here’s Julie Anne Lee – Allergies, Skin Disease, or Autoimmune – PT 2

[Susan]

Hi Mary,
Dogs diet should be balanced, it doesn’t have to be perfectly balanced, start buying tin/can Salmon, tin/can Sardines in Spring water look for the brands with the lowest Sodium/salt %, in the tin Salmon you’ll see bones leave them they just crush up mix thru, start adding 2 spoons of the salmon per meal, veggies & fruit must be peeled, de seed, cut up the veggies/fruit then put thru a blender & blend till they’re nilly a pulp, then I was adding 1 spoon of the veggie/fruit mix to ice cube trays then cover with cling wrap & freeze. Add 2 spoons/cubs per meal, just thaw the veggies/fruit ice cube take out night before put in fridge for next day, buy Omega 3,6,9 oil add 2 squirts per meal for their Omega fatty acids.

Join a few raw feeding face Book groups, what country do you live? in Australia we have Supplements called
“Natural Animal Solutions (NAS) Digestavite Plus Powder” Omega 3,6,9, oil, I was adding 1 teaspoon NAS Digestavite powder + Omega oil only need 1 add to 1 of Patches daily meals to balance his diet cause he cant eat bone or organ meat causes diarrhea.. He has IBD..
Your dogs especially the older dog needs Omega 3 in diet, Glucosamine & Chondroitin for joints & bones..

Follow Dr Judy Morgan DVM on her face book page
https://www.facebook.com/JudyMorganDVM/

Judy has very easy to make balanced raw & cooked diets,
Here’s a few videos just scroll down, her pup loaf is easy to make.. Judy sell supplements look up top “Shop”
Judy has a new book called “Ying & Yang” Nutrition for dogs.
https://www.drjudymorgan.com/category/videos/

[anonymous]

Take the dog to a veterinarian, asap.

You may want to rethink the raw diet.

Hope this helps
.http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+diet

PS. There are no veterinary health care professionals at this site and even if there were they have not examined your dog.

[Mabel’s Mom L]

Hi. My Mabel is an old English sheepdog and just turned 1 at the end of March. We’ve been feeding her a raw diet since she came home at 8 weeks. Initially, she started with commercial raw dehydrated and freeze-dried. Then we got the hang of things and have fed her fresh raw ever since.

Mabel has stopped eating or reluctantly so. She’s just as happy and playful as always. Just not eating. She does seem to have filled out – I haven’t been able to feel her ribs at all in the last month. Being a very active puppy, we had been feeding her 3% of her expected adult body weight (65 lbs). Because if the added weight, we are cutting back to 2.5%. I’m afraid to fast her because 1) her age and 2) she’s due to be spayed in the next few weeks.

Should I be concerned? Should I change anything?

Thank you!

[haleycookie]

The raw ratio to follow is 80/10/5/5. 80% muscle meat, 10% soft bone, 5% liver, 5% other secretory organ. Just cooking up some meat and veggies is completely unbalanced. If you have questions about leaving organs and bones out consult with a veterinarian nutritionalist. They can make proper recipes for you.