[Dog_Obsessed]

Lily also has rope toys that she loves to chew on. She’s not particularly picky though. She likes Nylabones, but it sounds like he wouldn’t like those too much. They can also be choking hazards if the dog bites off large pieces, and the harder ones can break teeth. Lily also loves the Himalayan Dog Chews, a hard, edible chew that softens as the dog chews. They are a bit pricey but they last a really long time.

I know many people on the forums use Raw Meaty Bones for chewing, and they are also supposed to help with teeth cleaning. I don’t use these so I can’t exactly recommend them, but if someone else comes by they can talk about those more in detail.

Also, natural chews like Bully Sticks and Pig Ears can be good for some dogs. In my experience bully sticks have smelled really bad, but they do make low-oder ones. It is important to get them from a reputable, USA made company to avid contamination. Same with the RMBs. Also, with any chew you are giving, always supervise your dog while chewing. Watch for him biting of chokeable sized pieces, and take it away when it is small enough to be a choking hazard.

[Avery M]

Just this monday my boyfriend and I picked up a 10 week old australian shepherd. This is the first dog I’ve been entirely responsible for and I’m definitely consider raw as an option (especially if I can find an affordable way to do it). I’ve read some articles and watched youtube examples of other people’s meal preps. So far what I’ve gathered is that is that I should slowly introduce and then rotate a variety of meats (I was thinking chicken, turkey and beef) as well as adding organs several times a week, and meaty bones daily. I’ve also noticed many people disagree on whether any vegetables are necessary. I have several main questions: Do I need to rotate the kind of animal the organs and bones come from like I do the meat? What, if any, adjustments do I need to make for her given that she’s a puppy? Is their a substitute for the green trife (I’m not sure if that’s what it’s called, I believe it may be stomach of some sort?) like a probiotic or something? I’m not sure where to get that.. If there is anything else I should know or advice to give me that would be great. Thank you.

[Naturella]

Tracy,

I second Susan – the smell could be a mouth issue or a stomach/digestion issue.

As for dental hygiene, you could give some bully sticks or other natural chews that actually help clean teeth (kibble doesn’t clean dog teeth any more than a cookie cleans human teeth). His mouth may not smell better but it will be cleaner. Or, if you would, you can give raw meaty bones – now those are supposed to really clean teeth, and combined with daily brushing, you should be good on the oral hygiene.

For the tummy, try considering digestive enzymes and/or probiotics. They may help.

[Nancy C]

In reply to Kristin… After my experiences w kibble I too changed to raw with the help of several wonderful people here and I can’t imagine going back. For me it’s a bit of a job to find resources other than whole foods ( un medicated /chemicalized chicken) and the Butcher shop. I have been to a slaugther house, called local grass feeding farmers (who never return calls) and am networking to find a more cost effective source for the variety of raw food. Nonetheless I will continue the raw because I can SEE a difference in my dogs. My GSD’s teeth are so much cleaner from HARE TODAY’s great Turkey Necks. I am still anxious about feeding the BEEF RIB BONES (any suggestions?) In my head I know his molars can chew them but I keep being afraid he’ll swallow a sharp piece which could cause trouble on it’s journey through and out the other end. Anyone else’s dogs doing fine on chewing Beef Rib Bones? I am asking around and it appears they are not a problem, and are very healthy. Tom Lonsdale DVM writes a worthwhile book RAW MEATY BONES and has a website with that title. I know I need to overcome this concern. Best of Luck, Kristin!

[Kristin C]

Hey John, I probably spend an average of $25-35 per week to feed my 2 dogs homemade raw. They are 25 and 35 lbs and that’s if I can get chicken for $1.99 or less per/lb and beef for $2.99 per lb. I rotate in novel proteins for variety so I’m sure that increases it a bit, but I also get raw meaty bones for less sometimes at the grocer so that might balance it out. I just get my chicken or beef at the grocer and order the novelty proteins and organs online.

[Nancy C]

Kristin, thank you! I am anything BUT an authority but my Fear has pointed me in the direction of getting info. For starters my RMBs are LONG too. Measuring the curved side they are 8 inches long from end to end which means they are really longer than that. My dog is 75 pounds w big jaws and teeth… however, I have just moved him in the last 2 weeks to raw and I have changed vets to a homeopath vet to whom I am adapting. My regular vet for 12 yrs is a fine clinician if the dog needs surgery (was #1 in her vet class) but as for holistic she is NOT there. She is the one who drew titers on my shepherd back in Sept, called to say parvo was negative and I needed to bring him in for REvaccination. The vaccine her animal hospital uses is a combo of parvo and distemper. She was willing to REvaccinate him for distemper even though his immunity for it (according to the titers) is very strong. THAT is when I found the homeopath who was willing to ONLY vaccinate for parvo. (Singles ARE available). That homeopath RE tested him for titers recently and sent the blood to the Univ of Col Vet Sch for lab work and the parvo was very strong. Go figure. Anyway, if there is trouble w this bone then I will have to make a decision betw WHICH VET and I do not want to do that!
Also – FYI from the NON EXPERT ME — According to my reading marrow bones are not recommended for dogs because they are from the load bearing bones (leg – femur) and dogs can easily break a tooth on those bec they are particularly hard. Dr. Tom Lonsdale DVM is a very respectable vet in Australia who has written two books worth seeing and one is titled RAW MEATY BONES. Can type that in and read more. He has a website. I think it is http://www.rawmeatybones.com. There is another website where his second book is ON LINE FOR FREE. It is RAWMEATYBONESMYTH.com (I think). Google that in and see if it comes up. Otherwise I will go find the exact title…. it gives a little info. Knuckle bones are also bad for tooth breaks.
Let me know how it goes this afternoon. I am thinking about giving mine today or tomorrow. I just gave the GSD his first BEEF last night, continued this morning. And I might wait till tomorrow just in case there is a probl so I can call the homeopath and not the Emergency Vet – they charge so much esp on weekends!
Good luck. Will wait to hear. WHAT I WANT TO KNOW is what happens AFTER the meat is all chewed off. !!! Thanks.

[Kristin C]

Jan-I feed my girls raw meaty bones on the weekend and split a can of sardines between the 2 of them at the same time. I also split a can between the 2 girls mid-week as a snack. I prefer to feed whole food versus a daily “supplement”. Have you explored yeast overgrowth for the skin allergies?

[crazy4cats]

The BCnut was hardly being rude. She is giving the exact same advise and information that HDM would give. She has just as much or more knowledge. She has already completed school and has much experience in the field. HDM would tell Kim to feed her dog variety. Do not feed the same food everyday forever. Yes, Fromm is a recommended food, but it is best to rotate with other kibble as well. She would also advise that a high quality canned food is healthier than kibble as it is less processed and has less carbs. Her first recommendation for dental health would be to brush his teeth, secondly give raw meaty bones such as turkey or pork necks, chicken backs or quarters, or chews such as bully sticks or pig ears. Third choice she has a few dental treats she recommends. A few are Zukes ZBones, Newman’s Own Organics Dental Bones and Nature’s Recipe Dental Chews. HDM is awesome, but she doesn’t participate as much in the forum anymore. I suspect she is extremely busy. I believe it is best to start a new topic under the appropriate category and get as much advise and information from as many posters as possible. Kim, I truly hope you can get your dog to eat and maintain his dental health. I feed my dogs kibble with several different types of toppers such as canned food, eggs and sardines. I give them bones, necks and dental chews. I hope HDM pops in and helps you out, but in the meantime maybe you could use some of our advise as well. As I have learned a lot of this from her and the BCnut.

[Nancy C]

I think they ARE weight bearing. I went to Whole Foods and asked for a Raw Meaty Bone and he brought a very large one out which he said he could cut down to whatever size I wanted. He also said that dogs go nuts for the marrow and he said it was a femur. I later learned that those are weight bearing bones. While I do not like to assume anything perhaps when you figure out WHICH BRAND it is that you are using, just call and ask. I was at the Pet Boutique today and PRIMAL has some of those in a bag in the freezer. I know someone who feeds them to their dog and the dog LOVES them. I did not say anything to her about it. The employee at the store told me that they carry lamb bones which are easier on the teeth. She said to me that weight bearing is risky and yet they were in the freezer. So MUCH to keep in mind!!!!

[Nancy C]

Cyndi:
First your dog is beautiful! I love the way he looks right into the picture! And with seeming purpose! 🙂 I know he’s a sweet one.

Thank you for your post also. You all are really helping me. My GSD was gone for three months for training and while he was gone I decided on RAW. Like you, I read the major books, watched Becker’s videos, took notes, read on line, and my binder is jammed. He had all those troubles on Origen and Acana and i just decided kibble was not worth it.

I will brush his teeth in addition to doing the bones. Thank you for that info. Have some HARE TODAY turkey necks frozen now but he is not YET on raw. I am working with a Homeopathic Vet who is wonderful and who has recommended Big Dog Natural although DFA people did not feel good about what BDN not coming forth with info re GA. I asked BDN about it and they said they could not tell their “secret” (which she inferred had to do with the fermentation of the veggies and the air drying process). The Homeopath vet feeds BDN to his 6 dogs – several are Great Danes – and he loves the food and the company. He also feeds Darwins. He has suggested that I go cold turkey when I transition the GSD using chicken and the turkey formulas (BDN) to begin with for several weeks. One Protein. (THat is what Tracy at HARE TODAY also suggested.) Once he’s doing great on that I will pull out the Turkey necks. After that I think I can start veering out a little. Tracy at HARE TODAY emailed me to take my time and NOT PUSH IT — that getting in a hurry will mess up his digestion. She’s SELLING RAW and TOLD ME TO SLOW DOWN! (That’s a sign of a good person!)

The woman who 1/2 owns Ziwipeak has two labs and she said she feeds them Ziwi at breakfast everyday and then gives them a raw very meaty bone for supper at night. I never got into Ziwipeak myself but it was interesting to hear that she does that. Says they are a picture of health.

Now it appears I must find out about CALCIUM so I do not overdo it. Any references about that?
Thank you again for your input. This is such a great site and I have met wonderful people.
With Gratitude,
Nancy C.

[Nancy C]

Can some of you give me some advice as to where to find and what to get for my German Shepherd 75 pound 2 yr old dog? His teeth need cleaning. I am going to start RAW feeding soon. I understand that weight bearing bones are out – too hard and great for tooth cracking. I know about duck and turkey necks but wondering if there is anything in the goat, beef or llama department that any of you has tried. I am totally GREEN GREEN in this activity of bones yet they are important.

Thanks so much for whoever can help!

[Naturella]

Victoria,

I feel for you! A few of us here have had our fair share of stubborn dog owners who just refuse to get the facts and do what is truly good for their companion…

That Ol’ Roy is crap, you obviously know… I guess, if you can, try to get a small bag of Walmart’s Pure Balance/Pure Balance Grain Free (two of the more decent foods sold at Walmart), and maybe entice the family to try and add some to Ol’ Roy, see how their dogs like it. When I added some of the food I feed my dog to the food of the dog of the family for whom I babysit, she did not want to touch her Kibbles ‘N’ Bits anymore at all! Lol, she knew the good stuff! Maybe this will help them – plus, Pure Balance is ALSO sold at Walmart, where Ol’ Roy is.

Another thing you could do, is just add some good canned food as a topper to their meals, or a raw/lightly cooked egg here and there, some canned sardines, coconut oil if you have/can afford it, and some plain yoghurt and canned pumpkin (plain, not the pie-filling stuff). That’s what I do even with better-quality kibble and I believe it helps. If you can throw some raw/lightly cooked meat in there, or raw meaty bones here and there, it should help improve their diet a TAD, but really do try to get them off of Ol’ Roy…

Good luck, and know that many of us have been there too!

[Julian R]

Hi Kristin,
I adopted my chow/akita mix almost two years ago and I started feeding him raw meats more or less after a month of his arrival. I started slow, mixing ground beef with canned wet food. I eliminated kibble right away or should I say he rejected it once he was presented with an alternative diet. After about a month of a raw/canned mix, I just fed him raw meats. Once I have made the full decision of a raw diet I searched for commercially available raw meats (http://www.darwinspet.com) but it was not a cheap option. I turned to my local meat markets and bought chicken (breasts, necks, hearts, thighs), turkey legs (cut in pieces), pork neck bones, beef kidney and heart, and ground beef. I followed the advise from (http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjhomemade2.html) to understand the proportions needed (lean meat:bone:fat:organs).
Now let me provide potential answers for some of your questions.
How much raw food per day should I feed him? Raw diet is more nutritious than kibble and canned food so there is not need to feed them as much. Based on your dogs desired weight I would estimate 3-3.5 oz daily.
Should I start out getting packaged raw food? It tends to be more expensive and if there are good meat markets in your area with a good selection, you can buy what you need at a lower price.
Should I just give him the bones or grind them up? Most dogs can handle bone (make sure they are uncooked) but one has to be careful since choking can still happen. Avoid chicken necks since they can cause choking in small dogs. Pork necks are a good option since they are meaty and dogs can easily break them (at least medium-large dogs). Now since you have a small dog you can give him small pork neck bones but not too small that he will try to swallow it whole. Supervision is key here.
What meats can he eat? chicken, beef, pork, venison, rabbit, turkey, duck, lamb, etc
What should his daily, weekly, etc… diet consist of? The article in dogaware.com provides a very straightforward guide to establish your weekly dog diet, in summary it states that it should be 30-50 % meaty bones, 45-65 % lean meat (including eggs and dairy products) and 5% or less of organ meat.
How slowly should I introduce him to raw food? Start slow mixing 3/4 of of his usual food with 1/4 of raw. Increase slowly over a 2-4 week period.
What meats are good to introduce/start out with? Chicken is usually a good start and lean ground beef is also good. Do not feed him chicken with the skin since it will be too rich for him.
What things should I get to start out with(what kind of meat grinder, what kind of storage containers, etc…)? I don’t use a meat grinder and most likely you can ask your local butcher to do the grinding you need. I ended up buying a freezer for his food and I thaw enough for 2-3 days inside the refrigerator. I keep thawed food in a closed large glass container inside the refrigerator.
How should I handle the meat? I have a cutting board, knife and other utensils to handle his food which I do not use for anything else. I wash everything with plenty of dish soap and hot water. I obviously I wash my hands thoroughly after handling raw meats. How much will this cost per month? For my 62 pound, I spend in average $70 a month. What veggies and fruits should I include in his diet daily, weekly, etc…??? About 6 months ago, I found out about a dog raw food vendor that distributes a great variety of raw food in NJ, CT, MA, NH, and VT. (http://www.topqualitydogfood.com/). They don’t mail so one has to picked up at specific services areas where they stop and it is once a month only. Anyway, they have meats mix with veggies and fruits which I give to my dog. You can see more information about giving vegetables and fruits to your dog. Keep in mind that vegetables should be preferably cooked and give as a puree mixed with meat for better absorption. How much low-fat cottage cheese, veggies, etc… should I feed him daily, weekly, etc…??? Cheese is as an occasional part of his diet but I dont feed him daily perhaps once a week but not too much.
What kind of fish can he eat? most fish except salmon or trout fromPacific Northwest. I feed my dog Chilean Salmon.
Should I add fish oil or probiotics or whatever else to his daily, weekly, etc… diet?? It is recommended to complement his diet with fish oil. I am not sure about probiotics, though.

I advise you to take a look at the books recommended if you can or at least check the websites. Also, try to connect with owners of small dogs that feed them raw. I strongly believe it is the best diet for dogs but it requires some learning from the owner.

[Naturella]

Hey, Travis!

Well, you asked for personal experiences and here is mine. I got Bruno when he was 4-6 months old (probably around 5-6). He was changing teeth and needed some serious chew supply. He is an avid chewer ever since. He really likes “meaty” chews like bully sticks, tracheas, gullet strips, cow/pig/lamb ears/snouts, fish skins, etc. However, they do not last him too long.

I did give him an antler as a puppy and have never stopped since. It contains good minerals and lasts a WHILE! It never hurt his teeth – not even the puppy ones, them sharp bastards! lol But, if you want, you can try your pups with a split antler – it doesn’t last that long, but it is mostly the inside “marrow” part, which is must softer and gentler. But for me, I always have to have an antler on hand, plus one to have when the first one is chewed to a nickel-sized piece, when I take it away (Bruno is 13.5lbs). But I have a great pet specialty store with seriously the best AND most affordable antlers I have seen, if I move from this area I will drop at least $70 but stock up on them antlers! Lol.

Other “long-lasting” chews are the Himalayan Dog Chew (super hard, dry yak cheese), raw marrow bones,. and the bull horns as aquariangt said. Bruno likes it all, just give him something to gnaw on, lol, but antlers keep his interest the most and last him the longest, so they are our household favorite. 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Louis –

It’s great that you’re being proactive about your dog’s dental health! 🙂

Unfortunately, the Milk Bone brand dental chews contain very unhealthy ingredients (kind of the canine equivalent of a candy bar for us humans!). The good news is there are a lot of healthy chews available that I’m sure your dog will love just as much.

My number one recommendation for a healthy and effective dental chew is raw meaty bones. My dogs are fed an entirely raw diet and their dinner every night consists of raw meaty bones, but raw meaty bones can be fed to dogs that don’t eat raw as well. The best options for small dogs are things like chicken necks, wings and feet. Larger dogs do well with items like chicken backs, chicken quarters, pork necks and turkey necks.

If you’re not comfortable with feeding raw (which is completely understandable, many aren’t) the next best option would be a natural chew – things like bully sticks, dried trachea, pig ears, etc. These treats are high in protein and low in carbohydrates making them species-appropriate and healthy – plus dogs go nuts for them! Just be sure to get these types of treats from a reputable supplier (avoid treats imported from China!). A great site to order chews from is BestBullySticks.com – they have a wide selection and their chews are sourced from free-range Brazilian cattle.

While I do feel that RMBs and natural chews are a much better option than commercial dental treats, if you do choose to go with a commercial dental treat there are some things to look out for. The vast majority of commercial dental treats are loaded with unhealthy ingredients (like the Milk Bone dental chews) but there are a few out there that aren’t so bad. You just have to be sure to always read the ingredient list – avoid items like propylene glycol, artificial colorings, corn, wheat, soy, by-products, digests, etc. The downside to commercial dental chews is that, for the most part, they’re all fairly carb-heavy (even the healthier options) and they’re typically very expensive (RMBs are cheap!). A few commercial dental chews that I would feel comfortable recommending: Zuke’s Z-Bones, Cloud Star Dynamo Dog Dental Bones, Halo Spot’s Chew, Get Naked Dental Chew Sticks, Newman’s Own Organics Dental Bones and Nature’s Recipe Pure Essentials Dental Chews.

Also, be sure that you’re brushing your dogs teeth regularly (at least three times per week) – while dental chews are certainly a valuable tool for dental health, the only way to ensure optimal dental health is through brushing.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[momtopoms]

If you live in Texas there is Texas Tripe. They have set delivery routes through a lot of Texas (not west Texas). They sell grinds and raw meaty bones. I also order from Hare Today.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Paulee,

I just looked quickly at the ingredients in the Nature’s Domain kibbled diets and I don’t see artificial coloring listed. It’s actually a myth that kibble helps to clean teeth.

Things like raw, meaty bones will help and I’ve seen some food additives that are supposed to help, but the best way to keep teeth clean is to brush them just like you would your own teeth! : ) I use a special toothbrush with a longer handle and an enzyme toothpaste just for dogs.

[pugmomsandy]

http://www.thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html

http://www.thewholedog.org/artcookedfood.html

“Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs” by Lew Olsen

“The BARF Diet” by Dr Billinghurst

“Raw Meaty Bones” and “Work Wonders Feed Your Dog Raw Meaty Bones” by Dr Tom Lonsdale

“Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr Karen Becker/Beth Taylor has easy recipes and includes puppies.

[tracy z]

I have a 9lbs toy poodle who just started on a raw diet. I give him raw chicken necks for his source of raw meaty bones. However, if I don’t cut them into smaller pieces (small enough to fit in his mouth but he would still have to chew on it) then he would refuse to eat them. He would just nibble on it and then drop it on the floor and stare at me. Would this still give him the dental benefit he needs from chewing on the bones? Or should I leave them un-cut and just let him work it?

Also, other than chicken necks, what are other good raw meaty bones I can give him that’s appropriate for his size?

Thanks!

[pugmomsandy]

The 80/10/10 numbers for raw feeding is an “average”. But what’s included in the average? Small whole animals whose bones can be consumed and larger animals whose bones cannot! For instance, let’s say a wolf eats mostly muscle/organs from a bison and hardly any of it’s bones because they’re too dense. Just have to keep in mind the phrase “balance over time” when feeding raw. But since you are going by a recipe, your food should end up mostly balanced than not! Liver should ideally be not more than 5%. Sometimes I add more muscle meat and sometimes I don’t. So sometimes my batch is around 30% bone and sometimes near 10%. I’m not exact all the time. I add heart, gizzard, tripe or muscle meat like thighs as additional “muscle meat” and have to do some algebra to figure it all out! For 5 lbs of whole chicken that’s around 30% bone, I can add up to 9.5 lbs of muscle and half a pound of additional liver to make it around 10% bone and around 5% liver. I haven’t seen (or looked for) bone content numbers for whole calf. I use preymodelraw.com for some figures on bone content. This is just what I do. http://preymodelraw.com/page/articles.html/_/raw-chat/common-cuts-a-photographic-guide-to-raw-meaty-r15

[Naturella]

Lihan, there are many good foods out there. The best thing to do is rotate between brands and also protein types – some well-regarded foods are Annamaet, Dr. Tim’s, Victor, Wellness, GO!, Now! Fresh, Earthborn Holistic to name a few. I don’t think all of them are GMO-free, but they are quality foods nonetheless. You can also supplement with canned sardines, fish oil, coconut oil (those three do wonders for skin and coat), probiotics/digestive enzymes/yoghurt/kefir/canned plain pumpkin, cottage cheese, and if particularly “adventurous” – a raw egg here and there and maybe some raw too or Raw Meaty Bones (RMBs – like chicken wings, legs, necks, backs, pork neck bones, beef ribs, etc.) Or, even some good-quality canned or dehydrated will do the trick! 🙂

Shopping online is usually easy and convenient and websites such as http://www.petflow.com , http://www.chewy.com , http://www.wag.com , http://www.petfooddirect.com , etc. usually have good deals that you will know of if you sign up for their emails.

Good luck, happy feeding and rotating, and don’t hesitate to post any and all questons you have – the crowd on this site is amazingly knowledgeable and supportive.

[Kristin C]

Recently took our 1 year old to the vet for an underarm rash. They gave her antibiotics and allergen pills for 2 weeks but did not identify the problem. The vet does not believe it is diet related, however she recommended we start feeding her 75% from one source and get a nutrition consult from Tufts. I feed both my dogs a combination of commercial raw (30%) homemade raw (50%) and a small amount of Orijen kibble (15%) plus raw meaty bones 1x per week. The raw is a variety of chicken, beef, duck and turkey. I did a lot of research working up to their current diet and am confused with the varying opinions out there, and now worried about the balanced nutrition. They are both energetic, glowing, and their stools are consistently as they should be. My concern with Tufts is they don’t seem to advocate raw diets and I don’t want to switch them to that much kibble. I can feed both dogs different proteins at every meal, and different brands, and they have no problems I believe because it is all high quality food. I am looking for some dialogue here from a knowledgeable raw feeder to get an opinion on my approach.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Erin –

You aren’t going to see any dental benefit from feeding ground raw. If you’re interested in feeding raw meaty bones, the mechanical chewing action will aid in keeping the teeth cleaner to a certain degree. However, the only way to ensure optimal dental health is to actually brush your dogs teeth – this should be done at least three times a week.

Price will vary greatly and will depend on which protein source you feed, which cut you feed, quality (grass fed vs. conventional), purchase quantity and your location. I purchase items in bulk from a distributor that supplies grocery stores and restaurants and get things like chicken backs (~$0.30/lb.), turkey necks (~$0.60/lb), chicken hearts & gizzards ($0.80/lb), turkey hearts & gizzards ($0.90/lb.), pork hearts ($0.90/lb), beef hearts ($1.30/lb), etc. etc. All my items come in 15 to 50 lb. cases and I have to order a minimum of 300 lbs. at a time. Purchasing meat at the grocery store would be much more expensive.

If you wanted to work in a little raw for the dental benefits you would be safe feeding a a raw meaty bone a few times a week in addition to the kibble without throwing anything off balance (you’d just want to make sure to feed a little less kibble on those days to account for the calories in the raw meaty bone). Larger dogs do well with chicken leg quarters, chicken backs, turkey necks and pork necks. Smaller dogs do well with chicken wings and necks.

If you want to start feeding 50% raw you’ll need to be sure it’s balanced. I’d suggest checking out the book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown – it includes easy to prepare balanced recipes. You could also use a pre-mix – my favorite is See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix (formulated by the author of the aforementioned book). I like it because it’s reasonably priced and doesn’t add in large amounts of fruits/veggies/etc. like some other mixes do so I have the freedom to customize it more to my preferences.

You may also find some useful information on the raw diet threads: /forums/forum/raw-dog-food-forum/

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shelley –

You might find this thread helpful: /forums/topic/eating-raw-meaty-bones/

There’s some videos there of one of my dogs eating RMBs so you can get an idea of what’s normal.

[Laura P]

Hi,
I’m wondering what the best source for raw meaty bones is? I called a butcher and they only have organs, and not so much in by products (pork necks, chicken necks, etc.). They recommended contacting a meat packer, but wanted to ask what others have done before I go that far. Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Lilmonster –

Raw meaty bones have a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio, it’s just really high. You can certainly try feeding boneless meat with the See Spot Liver Longer Dinner Mix in the morning and raw meaty bones in the evening – as long as your dog doesn’t get constipated it should be fine. You can also feed a little boneless meat along with the raw meaty bones or alternate between meals of raw meaty bones and something like tripe to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio. I know my girls get constipated if they eat an entire meal of raw meaty bones so I usually throw in a handful of hearts or gizzards. Also, if you’re only feeding the dinner mix for one meal a day and feeding raw meaty bones for the other, I’d highly recommend using the guidelines for puppies (4 tbs. per pound of meat versus 2 tbs.) to ensure that your dog is getting all the nutrients he needs.

I use the Twinlab Daily One with iron. The AAFCO minimum for iron is 80 mg/kg and the maximum is 3,000 mg/kg. So with 10 mg. per capsule, the Twinlab Daily One with Iron poses no risk of overdosing the dog on iron and it provides extra insurance in the event that a meal is too low in iron (which is a distinct possibility if the dog isn’t getting much red meat and/or organ meat). There is little to no risk of overdosing on vitamins and minerals from whole food sources, especially fruits and vegetables. The amount of calcium in the Twinlab Daily One isn’t high enough to affect anything.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[DogFoodie]

I’ve never had my dogs anal glands expressed.

When Sam, my Golden with food intolerance issues, has a reaction to a food he’s eaten, his anal glands will start to smell strongly and sometimes he’ll have some loose stool. He’s even scooted a couple of times. Even with that, once the offending food is removed, the situation seems to correct itself fairly quickly.

My guess is that the diarrhea caused the anal glands to become a bit inflamed and probably would’ve resolved fairly quickly on their own when the stool returned to normal. I would probably add a little bulk to his stool with some chia seed or pumpkin or try some THK Perfect Form or Firm Up! You could also try some raw meaty bones; ie: a chicken wing for dinner. The inclusion of some bone usual helps stool firm up, too.

Are you certain the diarrhea was caused by something he ate off of the ground?

[fey W]

I always feed my lucky three times a day.
Usually feed the natural foods include fresh human-grade raw meat (e.g. raw lamb), raw meaty bones and vegetables. Dr. Harveys is also my daily choice.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Lisa,

Chewy can survive on canned food alone. It’s far better for him than kibble is also. Kibble cleaning the teeth is a myth anyway. The best way to clean his teeth is with a toothbrush or by feeding raw, meaty bones or recreational bones.

I have a dog with some food intolerance issues and a bit of a sensitive stomach. He occasionally vomits bile when his tummy gets very empty. It sounds like your pup has the same problem. You could try adding a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar, diluted 50/50 at a minimum to his food. ACV stimulates the production of hydrochloric acid and tells the spinchter at the bottom of the esophagus to close so the bile stays put.

You could also try three small meals per day or, if that’s not practical, give him a small snack a couple times per day to avoid his belly being empty for too long.

Oh, and if he has trouble with transition. Do it slowly. Only increase the amount of the new food and decrease the old when his stool is firm. A spoonful of plain, canned pumpkin will help regulate intestinal water and add bulk to the stool. It usually helps very quickly, and most dogs seem to really like it.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Travis-
Sounds like you have your hands full! You could always rotate between the Zach’s kibble with a grain free kibble to keep your costs down. I’m rotating between Victor grain free and a grain inclusive brand right now. Another thing besides the raw meaty bones that Besty suggested, you could add an egg or a sardine to their kibble a few times a week to boost their diets a bit. Eggs are a pretty cheap addition! I add sardines once a week and eggs twice a week to my dogs’ meals. I also add a few Northwest Naturals frozen raw nuggests a couple times a week. That is a a little more expensive though. I wish you well on your quest!

[DogFoodie]

Hi Travis,

I couldn’t tell if you had already looked for a local retailer of Victor products or not. I live in the Chicago area, but my friend is in Texas and when I was looking for a local retailer for her I was shocked to see there were lots of them. Lots. Not to pester you, but do check and see if you might have a retailer near you. Click on the tab in the black bar at the top of this page that says, “find a dealer.” http://victordogfood.com/

Also, something you could consider would be supplementing your dog’s diet with raw, meaty bones as an introduction to raw food. Something as simple as a turkey neck in place of a meal of kibble. And, if you keep the extras to no more than 20% of your dog’s diet, you don’t have to worry about throwing off the nutritional balance of the kibble. I don’t feed raw full-time because of my schedule and it worries me far less when I know I’m feeding it less than 20% of the time. Here are the forum search results for “raw, meaty bones” or RMB’s as they’re called: /forums/search/raw+meaty+bones/

[theBCnut]

Since I have squeamish people living in my house and they may have to feed, I use raw as a topper, actually I feed about half and half, but I still mix kibble and raw. I know several people who do likewise with no problems. Or you can feed it as a seperate meal.

To use See Spot Live Longer, you can adjust the amount you make as you need to. Two tablespoon of SSLL per 1/2 lb of boneless meat, one tablespoon of SSLL per 1/4 lb of boneless meat, whatever works for you. DHA is in fish oil and if you don’t feed a meal of oily fish once a week, you need to give fish oil.

You can also give raw meaty bones as long as you don’t exceed 20% of the diet with unbalance foods..

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jason –

Victor is a great food – just be aware that the only two formulas with calcium levels appropriate for large breed puppies are the chicken and rice formula and the lamb and rice formula. He’ll be fine if you switch him to a good food now, at only three months old a doubt there has been any dietary damage. 🙂 Raw meaty bones are – imo – the best chew. However, because he’s still growing and bones are high in calcium I’d limit to only once or twice a week. Things like turkey necks, chicken backs, etc. are all great. Raw tracheas are another wonderful chew for puppies – they’re nice and gummy and not too hard. If you aren’t comfortable feeding raw bones you could go with natural chews such as bully sticks or dried tracheas (just make sure they’re from a reputable company).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jazz Lover –

Sounds like your dog is eating pretty well already! 🙂

Incorporating a little raw is definitely a great idea though if it’s something you’re able to do. You could check out the book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown – there’s a chapter on how to prepare a simple raw meal that you can feed once per week. The day you feed raw is called an “ABC Day.” Some other options would be to top the kibble with a balanced commercial raw or just keep some commercial raw in the freezer and feed a few meals of week of entirely raw. Or you could look at incorporating some raw meaty bones into the diet as a treat a few times a week – turkey necks, pork necks and chicken quarters are great for large dogs.

[SandyandMila]

RMB stands for raw meaty bones. From http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-feeding-primer/ “This can include chicken backs, wings and necks (or even whole carcasses), lamb necks, pork necks, turkey necks, ox tails, beef ribs, turkey tails; any meaty bone that can be completely consumed by your dog. If you are feeding meatier meals (turkey or lamb necks), feed about 50% RMB, if your choices are bonier (chicken backs, pork necks, wings or ribs), feed about 30% RMB.
Large, weight bearing bones such as marrow and knuckle bones are not considered RMB’s if the dog is not able to consume the bone. These can be given as a recreational bone..” I can find at my local supermarket chicken wings, leg quarters, turkey necks, beef oxtail, pork neck bones, whole chicken, whole turkey, whole quail. Others you could find at at a local butcher or wholesale supplier and also online at sites like Hares Today, My Pet Carnivore, and if you have Primal pet food at a local pet store they also have chicken necks, chicken backs, and turkey necks. That site is a good reference and there are so many more knowledgable people on DFA that can help you. Feel free if you have any more questions!

[Naturella]

I’d say brushing, natural chews (like HoundDogMom and pugmomsandy said), and, if you’re down for it – raw meaty bones (RMBs) every night or a few times/week. For a small dog (mine is a 13-lb rat terrier mix), chicken necks, chicken backs, pork neck pieces should work ok. They help clean teeth too.

[pugmomsandy]

Do you give chew bones of any kind (tendons, bully sticks, raw meaty bones, ribs, Himalayan chews, cow hoof, etc)? There are also oral gels and oral sprays that you can apply nightly. There’s even a seaweed that you can add to feeds such as ProDen Plaque Off or other brand. My dogs will chew on their cow hoof for two hours after they’ve eaten the tripe out of it (frozen tripe-stuffed cow hoof) and they really love gnawing on beef ribs. The Himalayan chews are really tough as well and last.

[Danni D]

Ugh…if you can get your dog off of the Pedigree.
It’s just not good for them.
I can vouch for Pure Balance, I rotate that in my Rottie’s diet, he also gets raw, freshpet and canned. I change his kibble every bag though. But he has done well on it.
Here is a controversial one to some but I have had great luck and health- Diamond Naturals not the plain cheaper Diamond. I fed my last rot this food for 15 years along with Raw and he did fine- it is also in my current rotation. It is not a bad food but Diamond has had a history of recalls. Many other Pet food makers have had recalls. Many are skiddish about Diamond because of this but it’s not a bad food. They make many other brands as well.
You can get Diamond Naturals of all kinds for great prices at Menards.
I wish I could tell you about 4health but living where I live we don’t have many feed stores. I do want to try it though as well as Eagle Pack.
Victor is a great food for my Rot, he likes it. My Pom got sick on it but he has a sensitive belly- kibble doesn’t sit well.
I bought Authority once and found maggots so ugh…not one I would feed but I know many do.

Hey Betsy- if you don’t mind little hijack- where do you get raw meaty bones? Butcher?

• This reply was modified 9 years, 12 months ago by Danni D.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Ally,

Pedigree doesn’t have a very good reputation. It actually contains a lot of ingredients that many believe are unhealthy, myself included. I try to feed my dogs foods that contain ingredients, every one of which, are healthful. Corn is a filler ingredient that doesn’t deliver much nutritional value, unless very highly processed; and our goal should be to eat foods that have undergone minimal processing.

Did you happen to read the Pedigree product review: /?s=Pedigree

It’s a myth that kibble cleans teeth. The only way to really clean teeth is to scrape off the tartar manually with a toothbrush or even to feex your dog some occasional raw, meaty bones.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Ally –

With the possible exception of prescription kibble formulas designed to support dental health, a kibble claiming to fight tarter is really a marketing gimick. Imagine if your dentist told you that if you ate croutons daily you’d have nice teeth and could quit brushing and flossing – if my dentist did that I’d tell him he’s nuts! There are many dental products on the market such as gels, sprays, some specially designed dental chews and raw meaty bones that may aid in supporting dental health to a certain degree. However, the only way to achieve optimal dental health is if you brush your dog’s teeth regularly. Many dog owners don’t realize the importance of oral health or realize that dogs require that their teeth are brushed regularly (just like humans!). The good news is it’s never too late to start!

Here’s a good article to get you started:

http://www.animalwellnessmagazine.com/articles/brush-his-pearly-whites/

If your dog is having issues with Pedigree you may also want to check out some other foods. Some foods I know of that many people seem to like that are comparable in price to Pedigree are 4Health (sold at Tractor Supply), Pure Balance (sold at Walmart), Rachel Ray (sold at Walmart and most grocery stores), Whole Earth Farms (sold at Petco and many pet specialty stores), Eagle Pack (sold at many pet specialty stores), Authority (sold at Petsmart) and Victor (sold at many feed stores).

[Wanda F]

I’ve had Brewer for 2 years; rescue Lab. who spent most of his young life at the shelter. He came with numerous stomach, stool and skin problems (even thought the neighbors had poisoned him because he was so sick)…after several vet. visits who suggested corn based food I went to Dog Food Advisor and tried Dogswell-Nutrisca…he’s certainly doing better but I want the best for him so I tried raw but realized I was too uncertain how to get it balanced and he’s a “gulper” so meaty bones and whole chicken pieces are a hazard. Now I’m looking at Orijen…seems the next best thing to raw for this special boy. Any advice???

[theBCnut]

Jake’s mom

You did exactly what I would have done. If they don’t consume the bone completely then after a couple hours when they get tired of it, I throw it away. Some people refreeze them and give it again later, but I have plenty of bones, so have never felt a need to save them.

Sue

Dogs handle the germs just fine, so I don’t risk cooking even a little bit of the bone. I do tend to give bones in their crates, so they don’t get raw meat all over the house though. Also, good luck on finding raw meaty bones that are low fat. Ribs are fatty, though lamb is much leaner than mutton. I think brisket is the sternum area. The leanest raw meats are chicken and turkey with the skin removed, but they aren’t as much workout for the teeth.

• This reply was modified 10 years ago by theBCnut.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Zohar, Feeding raw meaty bones, it that’s what you’re thinking of, depends on the size of your dog and how they eat. I have two large breed older pups that are all on raw within the last 3 months. The older one (8 yrs., 80 lbs) took to raw like a champ but takes her time chewing her raw meaty bones (so far smaller turkey necks, also chicken necks, wing, feet and backs. And she LOVES them.
The other two are under a year (95 lbs and 70 lbs). They chew most RMBs but quite often, with turkey necks, will swallow a large chunk at the end and then regurgitate several pieces of bone about 3-4 am. It’s never been a real problem but not great to wake up, clean up and wonder if all is ok for the next hour. So I’ve recently started using a meat mallet on turkey necks to break down the bone slightly before feeding. Seems to be the answer as there has been no bone regurgitation since I started.
A couple of tips I found elsewhere: to cut large, heavier bones into smaller pieces use a garden type Lopper. Works great on turkey necks. Be careful about pieces that are too small as it is easier to choke on something that is just a little too big to swallow rather than something large that they break into smaller pieces themselves. That said, I’ve also heard of holding some of them with tongs while they eat until you’re confident they can manage the size, etc. on their own. I have to say it was kind of scary at first and it’s never good to be over-confident that you never question what you’re doing.
And even if you don’t have a butcher, there are SO many raw pet food providers available now! You can buy lots of different raw meaty bones from any of them. Just research to make sure it’s the quality you want.

https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/
http://www.rawpaws.org/display/main/Raw+Paws+Home+Page
http://reelrawdog.com/
https://www.hare-today.com/

And last, I heard of a website that provides info and links to many organic farms (meat and veg). Maybe there’s one near you! Check here for places that might be close to you: http://www.eatwild.com/index.html

Good luck!

Still confused TOO!

• This reply was modified 10 years ago by Sue's Zoo.

[Susan]

Hi, I’m a vegetarian to, I hate meat, all those poor animals getting killed.. I was thinking of giving Patch a raw meaty bone once a week but Im worried as he has Pancreatitis, in the book im reading at the moment the vet suggest Raw Brisket bone or Mutton flaps as they are ideal because the dog needs to really use their teeth to crack crush & tear these down to small pieces, their gums & teeth benefit enormously from this activity. I dont know what a brisket bone is or what’s a mutton flap, but the rib bones sounds good, Ive seen BBQ ribs u can slice 1 off, but mite be a bit small for Patch it would be gone in 1 minute. I’d have to have a look at them all at the butchers & ask the butcher what meat bones would have the least fat beef, lamb or pork, also does anyone pour boiling hot water over the bone to kill any germs & bacteria….

[jakes mom]

Bobby dog, Jake had a beef bone tonite and he loved it! Either he likes beef more than chicken or he’s just more used to raw now but he had no hesitation about it like he did when I first gave him a chicken back. I’m not sure what kind of bone it was. It was packaged as “scrap bones for stewing”. Had a decent amount of meat on it. I think it was a cow vertebrae by the looks of it. The cats enjoyed some of the meat, too. Beef is a hit at my house I guess! Next time, pork ribs maybe! You should try giving Bobby a nice meaty bone, this one kept Jake busy and happy for almost 2 hours!

[Susan]

How do you know its food allergies?? You sure they dont have Enviornment allergies, My boy gets itchy red paws & itchy skin & he has enviornment allergies, only 1-5% of dogs will have true food allergies, Im reading a book at the moment & its rare for dogs to have food allergies, Dr Rob Zammit writes, the number of dogs that really have a food allergy is fewer than the number of dogs diagnosed with the condition, far too often, if a dog has a non-seasonal propensity to scratch it is diagnosed as having a food allergy without proper testing..the only way you’ll know if its food is you must do an elimination diet, A reasonable elimination diet is cooked rice & lamb, no snacking inbetween meals,.In the case of true food allergy improvement will be seen after 7 days with the dogs skin looking normal by the end of 3 weeks. If ur dogs improve on an elimination diet it could be useful to include additives such as polyunsaturated oil, omega oils & other natural oils found in various herbs, the critical thing is to add only 1 additive at a time. The best starting point is omega oils add this a the recommended dose for aleast 6 weeks , if there’s no deterioration in symtoms then add another additive can be given if the lamb & rice is working then the next additive should be in the form of raw bone, these must be sheep origin, so use mutton flaps, lamb necks or brisketbones from sheep again no other additives must be given for another 6 weeks. You may want to pick another meat, but only use the raw meaty bones from that animal….also bathing should be done weekly with a good oatmeal base shampoo too keep the oils in the skin, if ur using all those product they are not working maybe its a time for a change with products, I use Malaseb medicated shampoo & I saw an improvement within 3 weeks, skin started growing back also Blackmores has a excellent dog range called Paw (Pure Animal wellbeing) I also uses the Paw Nutriderm replenishing conditioner this can be left on the skin moisturising the skin weekly… The basis of the diet could become a good quality super premium dry food as long as the ingredients are similar to those used during the elimnation diet…

[Naturella]

I agree with Carlyn (Shasta220). And I actually think the NutriDent ingredients are not THAT bad, I know what more of the ingredients mean than those in Milkbone for example. Before I knew all I do now, we bought Bruno a bag of the Nylabone equivalent of Greenies, NutriDent for puppies, and aside from making his stool green, they didn’t cause him any discomfort, but I doubt they cleaned his teeth at all. Once I learned about bully sticks and other dehydrated natural chews and raw meaty bones, I would not get him any of those commercial “dental” treats ever again. 🙂

[satobrinn]

Just when I thought I was doing the right thing! I use a company in ME that will pre-measure a variety of meats using the prey model, and they offer the option of raw meaty bones with each meal or a bone-in option. She isn’t a super gulper, but I’m still worried about her choking on a bone and thought I would switch to the bone-in option. This is an interesting point which leaves me wondering what I should do. I also use salmon oil and some say that too should be avoided. I would consider rotating oils, but I wouldn’t want to cut out salmon oil entirely.

[theBCnut]

Any raw is better than no raw. I know several people who don’t feed any raw except raw meaty bones 2 or 3 times a week for teeth, but they have notied improved coat too.

If your cats will eat raw, it is definitely better for them to get some raw. Mine would not eat chunks, but I got some whole prey grinds from Hare Today that they will eat. They won’t eat more than about 1 oz. at a time each though, never a full meal, which is funny because they both hunt bunnies and eat them whole.

[Susan]

This book Im reading Raw & Nutural Nutrition for dogs by Lew Olson PhD, she recommends to boil the eggs, leave egg shells on a tray in warm place over night, then ground up.. If ur feeding Raw Meaty Bones they are a great source of calcium, they wont need the extra calcuim if their diet is raw, But if ur dogs aren’t on a Raw diet then..half a teaspoon of grounded egg shells sprinked on meal..Im doing this at the moment grounded up the egg shells & putting in spice jar..