[pugmomsandy]

Do tell!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

WOO HOO! I figured out how to post videos! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

(Going to try a different method)

Gertie eating a turkey neck:

Gertie eating a chicken back (Mabel and Gus providing the background music):

[Hound Dog Mom]

I wish I could figure out how to make the videos show up. I’ve got pictures figured out but not videos..

[InkedMarie]

Get the video and info to dr mike, it should probably be a stickie.

[Hound Dog Mom]

p.s. Raw pork should be frozen for at least 3 weeks before feeding.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I feed my dogs pork necks. They’re soft enough that they can be consumed entirely by large dogs and would be considered a “raw meaty bone” rather than a recreational bone. I’ve been feeding them quite a bit lately because I can get them for only $0.65 per lb.

[weimlove]

I found some pork neck bones for a great price at the store, are they safe for teeth?

[theBCnut]

That’s what I do, though I’m sure that our turkey necks have a higher meat:bone ratio because they don’t look like the bones are much bigger. They just have a huge meaty area where they were attached to the body, about 4 times more meat than bone. The head end isn’t so meaty though, only about the same amount of meat as bone.

[theBCnut]

Don’t worry about the veg unless you see something going on that makes you suspect a real problem. My personal feelings on adding veg and fruits is that I like knowing that mine are getting a variety of antioxidants, just in case. They may not digest every speck of it but they are getting a variety.

I feed twice a day, so 20% of that is about 3 meals, so I feed bones 3 times a week and don’t worry if they don’t eat the usual supplements in those meals. Some people feed raw meaty bones once a day and then for the other meal they make sure that all the days supplements are mixed in.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Janet –

If you’re sure the “scooting” is not due to anal gland issues I would bring a stool sample to the vet to check for parasites just in case (certain worms – such as tapeworms – can cause “scooting”).

To help with the stools and the transition to a new food I would add a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each meal and supplement with probiotics and digestive enzymes (there’s no need to buy a “pet” supplement, something from the health section for at the grocery store with suffice and likely be cheaper). You can continue the pumpkin and supplements permanently if need be.

Grain-free foods are, unfortunately, pricier than grain-inclusive foods. Earthborn is probably one of the most budget-friendly grain-free foods available. Some other options would be Nutrisource, Taste of the Wild, The Source, Victor, Authority and 4Health (note: Taste of the Wild and 4Health are manufactured by Diamond). NutriSource, Taste of the Wild and Source run about the same price as Earthborn while Victor, Authority and 4Health are slightly cheaper. Authority Grain-Free is available exclusively at Petsmart. The Source and 4Health are available exclusively at Tractor Supply. Earthborn, Taste of the Wild and Nutrisource can be found at most high end pet specialty stores and online. Victor will likely be the most difficult food to locate – I haven’t been able to find an online retailer and it’s not sold in my area but if you can find it, it looks like a fantastic food and it a great bargain.

You’re correct that dry food doesn’t really clean teeth, that’s a myth. I wish it wasn’t though – I’d eat potato chips and cookies all day and use the excuse that it’s for my dental health lol. 🙂 Canned food is actually healthier and more species appropriate (higher moisture content and higher protein levels) so if you can afford to occasionally buy some quality canned food (4Health has some grain-free varieties that are a bargain at only $0.99 per can) that would be great for your dog. Healthy “people food” is good to add to kibble too – eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean meat, plain yogurt, cottage cheese, low glycemic veggies, etc.

I think raw bones are best for dental health. My dogs eat a raw diet and get raw bones daily – beef ribs, pork necks, turkey necks, chicken backs, etc. If you’re going to buy something from the store I’d go for “natural” chews (make sure they’re made in the US) such as dried tracheas, bully sticks and pig ears – these are species-appropriate (high protein, grain-free) and great for dental health. As far as “treats,” I’d go with high protein meaty treats such as jerky (made in the US of course), grain-free biscuits or freeze-dried raw foods. I’m a big fan of Nature’s Variety Instinct dog biscuits, EVO biscuits and Darford Zero-G biscuits (although I’m not sure if the Darford biscuits are being made anymore 🙁 ). I also feed freeze-dried raw (such as NV Instinct and Stella & Chewy’s) as treats.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DieselJunki –

Glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) are important constituents of cartilage and help to maintain joint function. GAG’s and GAG precursors would include glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid. MSM, which is an organic form of the essential mineral sulfur, can be beneficial for joints as well due to the fact that connective tissues require sulfur for maintenance. Cetyl Myristoleate is a supplement that’s recently gained popularity as a joint supplement and has been shown to lubricate joints and maintain function. Whole food supplements that are rich in GAGs are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, shark cartilage and eggshell membrane. Raw meaty bones are rich in GAGs as well – with trachea, poultry feet and gullet probably being the richest sources. I feel that large/giant breed dogs that are not fed a diet including raw meaty bones on a daily basis should be started on a joint maintenance supplement at a year old (until the dog is a senior or starts to exhibit joint issues the supplement can be given at half the recommended dose). When it comes to joint supplements if you buy supplements made for humans they will be MUCH cheaper per dose. The ingredients used in human supplements are the same as those used in dog supplements so there’s no reason human supplements can’t be used (they’re probably higher quality as well). For a young dog with no joint issues there’s no reason to supplement with every beneficial ingredient under the sun – a capsule of green lipped mussel, shark cartilage, sea cucumber or eggshell membrane or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement will give enough maintenance support to a young dog free of joint issues. For older dogs or dogs that are exhibiting symptoms of arthritis natural anti-inflammatories such as white willow, yucca, boswellia, turmeric/curcumin, tart cherry and supplemental omega 3’s can be beneficial to give in addition to a joint maintenance supplement.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Chicken feet are great to feed, they’re the perfect size for smaller dogs too. Chicken feet are very rich in glucosamine and chondroitin so they help keep the joints healthy.

[shelties mom]

Are chicken feet good to feed as part of their diet? My dogs are 15 lbs each and turkey necks are too big for them.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Well scratch that idea. I can’t figure out how to post a video on here.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Well that didn’t work. I’ll try this.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I’ve noticed over the past week or so that, both here on the forums and on the review threads on dfa, several posters have had concerns about feeding rmb’s – what types are safe, how much should the dog be chewing, what if their dog is gulper, how big of a piece can a dog safely swallow, etc. I’m going to post two short clips of one of my dogs eating an rmb. The first is her eating a turkey neck and the second is her eating a chicken back. Hopefully these clips can give those that are either new to feeding rmb’s or contemplating feeding rmb’s an idea of what to expect and what it should look like. I know I was also very nervous the first time I gave my dogs rmb’s – I kept thinking “What if the piece they swallowed was too big and they get a blockage?” “What if one of the edges they swallowed was too sharp and they get an intestinal perforation?” etc. Also, weimlove has put together a great topic for listing what types of rmb’s people safely feed their dogs here: /forums/topic/rmbs-and-recreational-bones/

[URL=http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a501/hagelult/MVI_1994_zps0b81e4c9.mp4][IMG]http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a501/hagelult/th_MVI_1994_zps0b81e4c9.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a501/hagelult/MVI_1997_zps67e39b25.mp4][IMG]http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a501/hagelult/th_MVI_1997_zps67e39b25.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[Hound Dog Mom]

I wouldn’t consider a bully stick to be a high calorie treat – at least not for an active dog. My dogs each eat about 2,500 calories per day each and they all get either a bully stick, dried trachea chew or pig ear before bed. I estimate their chew treat to be around 200 calories – this accounts for only 8% of their daily caloric intake. Obviously the owner of a small breed or couch potato dog would have to be more conscientious – but this goes for any treats and meals too. I believe that natural chews, such as bully sticks, are – aside from raw meaty bones – the most species-appropriate chew for dogs. Chewing is healthy for dogs – it helps to clean their teeth and to stimulate them mentally by satisfying their natural urge to chew. Feeding a natural type chew is much healthier – imo – than any of those junk food chews on the market like Greenies, Dentastix and Busy Bones that are loaded with carbohydrates and often contain gluten, corn, gmos, sugar, propylene glycol, artificial colorings, etc. etc.

As far as natural treats being contaminated with bacteria like salmonella – this is old news. It’s been known for years and years that natural treats often are contaminated with bacteria. Does the fact that a bully stick may be contaminated with salmonella pose a risk to your pet’s health? I don’t think so and history supports that it isn’t a risk.

Excerpt from: “The Human Health Implications of Salmonella-Contaminated Natural Pet Treats and Raw Pet Food” [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16447116]

“To date there have been no published reports of salmonellosis occurring in dogs as a result of exposure to natural pet treats.”

Just as a healthy dog should be able to handle the bacteria present in raw meat, a healthy dog should be able to handle the bacteria that may or may not be present on a natural chew. Every dog I’ve ever owned (even as a kid) ate natural chews regularly and my current dogs have been on a raw meat diet for over a year and a half – I’ve never had a dog get sick and . People just need to use common sense here. If you have a small and/or inactive dog – limit their chews to once or twice a week. Don’t give an immune-compromised dog a natural treat (or raw meat) as their immune system ay be too weak to handle the bacteria. Know that your treat came from a reputable manufacturer. Always wash your hands after handling natural pet treats and disinfect any surfaces that they touch.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Altoid –

Cooked bones shouldn’t be fed as they are likely to splinter – they are more likely to cause intestinal perforations or blockages. Bones should always be fed raw. If your dog is a light chewer heavy bones such as marrow bones and knuckle bones would probably be safe, if, however, your dog is a strong chewer I’d stick with bones that are entirely consumable called “raw meaty bones” (chicken backs, chicken necks, turkey necks, etc.). Strong chewers can break and/or wear down their teeth over time if given dense bones such as marrow bones and knuckle bones. Don’t leave the bone out for more than an hour or so, whatever your dog doesn’t eat can be stored in the fridge – use within three days.

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve been using ProDen PlaqueOff (seaweed) for 2 months on my foster who needs a dental. When I first brought him home I had to roll the windows down in the car his breath was so bad! Now he sleeps in my room and I can put my face right up to him and there is no smell and his tongue is always hanging out! I haven’t checked his teeth for tarter but he is going to see the dental folks tomorrow morning. He is also on a wet diet only. No kibble.

My other dogs eat raw meaty bones or gnaw on marrow bones, antlers, bully sticks for teeth cleaning.

[Hound Dog Mom]

weimlove –

Raw meaty bones are safe – RMBs are those that can be completely consumed (chicken backs, turkey necks, chicken feet, chicken leg quarters, etc.). What you want to avoid are the weight-bearing bones of large ruminants (cows, buffalo, sheep, etc.) – these are called “recreational bones” and would include marrow bones, knuckle bones, etc. I personally don’t feed my dogs any recreational bones because of concern over breaking teeth and even if they don’t break a tooth, chewing bones like these over time can wear down the teeth.

[crazy4cats]

Hi- I often see that many on this forum suggest giving raw meaty bones to their dogs. Which type of bones are the safest and where do you get them? If they still have meat on them, would they be considered a meal? Also, wondering if you should boil them or anything before giving to dogs. My dogs (lab mix) are extremely aggressive chewers and looking for something safe as well as something to keep them busy and satisfied for more than 5 minutes. Help!

[weimlove]

Ok, I think I will start with ground chicken, and use the higher amount of meat to pre mix version. I also will feed a rmb everyday and use chicken back, necks, etc. I will also be sticking to the smaller meaty rmb’s instead of the larger bones like the lamb one I fed yesterday. For now, I will use the pre mix just to begin a raw diet, but someday I would love to create my own raw meal and add the correct amounts of meat, organs, and bones. It is probably cheaper to create your own raw meal since you can get quality ingredients at the butcher for very cheap.

[weimlove]

HDM- yes, that was his first time ever eating anything raw, so it was probably the fat content. The bone I gave him was also a pretty large lamb bone. I will try to attach a picture of it. I will definitely try the smaller meaty bones you suggested. I was very worried last night, thanks for the peace of mind. Also, when I do switch him to raw all the way, should I do a gradual switch or just go cold turkey on the kibble? And what do you think would be the best meat and meat type to start him out on? Keep in mind that I will be mixing it with honest kitchen dehydrated pre mix. Thanks so much!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Weimlove –

Oftentimes when I fed my dogs more dense, weight-bearing bones from large ruminants (cows, buffalo, sheep, etc.) they threw up shards about 8-12 hours after chewing the bone. For this reason I now stick with raw meaty bones. There are two types of bones 1) Recreational bones – these are going to be your marrow bones, knuckle bones, etc. and will be from large animals like cows, buffalo and sheep. These bones are not completely consumable (meaning your dog shouldn’t be able to eat the entire bone) and don’t provide a whole lot of nutrition, they are more just for fun chewing pleasure. 2) Raw Meaty Bones (you’ll often see these referred to as “RMBs). RMBs are completely consumable (meaning your dog should be be able to eat the entire thing) and provide a lot of nutrition. RMBs typically include poultry bones (chicken necks, chicken backs, chicken feet, turkey necks, duck necks, etc.) but for some larger dogs that have more powerful jaws, non-weight bearing bones of large ruminants (such as pork or beef or lamb necks or rib bones) can be considered RMBs as well. I no longer give my dogs recreational bones because of the issue with puking up the shards (I believe that because the bones are so dense they aren’t highly digestible, which results in the puking) and because I’ve read several reports of dogs actually breaking teeth on them or wearing down their teeth over time. There’s also a chance that your dog may have puked after the bone due to high fat content. Recreational bones contain marrow and marrow is very high in fat, if your dog is just switching to a raw diet and isn’t accustomed to this it could have resulted in some stomach upset. I’d recommend getting some RMBs for your dog. Primal does sell some RMBs but you could likely get them for a lot cheaper at a butcher. I get chicken backs for $0.40/lb. and turkey necks for $0.60/lb.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

Great choice on switching to raw, you’ll notice a big difference in your dog’s health. I agree with everything Shawna said. I just wanted to add some info on a pre-mix I like. I feed mostly homemade (you can check out a weekly feeding schedule for my dogs on the “Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus?” thread) however I use Urban Wolf Pre-mix three mornings a week. What I like about Urban Wolf versus other pre-mixes is that it’s a fine powder and in my experience digests better (with pre-mixes like Sojo’s I notice an increase in stool volume and pieces of undigested veggies coming out) and that it relies on whole foods for nutrition – the only “vitamin” added is calcium, everything else comes from whole foods and I like that you have to add organ meat so your dog gets a lot of necessary nutrients from the organs rather than from added synthetic vitamins and minerals. You also need to add oil (but I’d recommend just adding an omega 3 and omitting the omega 6 oil they call for in the recipe, it’s not necessary to add the omega 6 oil and it results in the end recipe being too high in fat – you can see how I prepare it on the menus thread if you’re interested). The only downside of Urban Wolf, for me, is that it does contain white potato (although it’s pretty far down on the ingredients list and not a major component) – but I only use it a few mornings a week so it’d not of big concern for me. If you’re using only pre-mixes every day it’d probably be best to rotate and use several different pre-mixes. Here’s some good info on pre-mixes and it explains several of the options out there: http://dogaware.com/diet/dogfoodmixes.html . I’d recommend feeding an even rotation of white meat and red meat, don’t rely on one or the other as they have different types of fats and if you only feed one or the other it would throw off the fat balance in your dog’s diet. The more variety the better. I’d also recommend feeding raw meaty bones at least two or three times a week this way your dog can get the full dental benefits a raw diet has to offer. I have large dogs and usually feed things like turkey necks, chicken backs, chicken leg quarters, duck necks, etc. Chicken necks and chicken wings work well for smaller dogs. I’d avoid the weight bearing bones of large ruminants (such as marrow bones, knuckle bones, etc.) as they are too dense and can potentially chip a tooth or over time your dog can wear their teeth down – in my experience they also don’t digest well either, I used to feed them to my dogs occasionally and it seemed like they’d always puke up bone shards. Good luck! Be sure to come back if you have any questions, quite a few of us here feed raw and would love to help. 🙂

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Kevin,
Nylabone and greenies have both caused serious health problems.. I can’t remember the details. But, you can look them up on a search engine, and I believe Dr. Becker (DVM) on mercola.healthypets.com has some articles about it. The healthiest thing to give your dog to clean their teeth is raw meaty bones and a species appropriate diet. No grains. Dogs have no dietary need for grain. In fact, their canine cousins in the wild consume only about 5-6% vegetable matter (not grains, but including small amounts of fruit). Feeding grains leads to weight gain, dental carries and plaque, as well as many other adverse health conditions. Crunching up RAW bones, scrapes them clean. Feeding a meat protein based, balanced diet is the best thing you can do to maintain their good health. If you check out the prescription diets, you’ll see they contain mostly plant based proteins. Which don’t contain complete, biologically appropriate proteins for carnivores.

A raw chicken or turkey neck, or chicken wing is a good, inexpensive “tooth brush” for your mid sized dog. You can get them cheap, by buying past date ones at the meat counter. Buy in bulk, repackage & freeze in individual portions.

For more info on raw feeding check out Dr. Becker’s articles on that too. Hope that helps. 🙂

[theBCnut]

I feed raw meaty bones to my dogs and their teeth are really nice.

[theBCnut]

I feed raw meaty bones and my dogs’ teeth are really nice.

[theBCnut]

Feeding raw meaty bones helps to make the stool harder which helps to naturally release the anal glands. You need to really watch your dog when you first start feeding bones to make sure your dog chews up the bones instead of gulping. Starting with chicken necks works well or if you have a large dog turkey necks.

[DogFoodie]

Holy moly Shibasenji! Watch yer fingers, eh? Those pictures are great! The picture of your Shiba Inu clearly shows the dental benefits of raw meaty bones! Those teeth are spotless!

[BryanV21]

Wet food is not bad for teeth. You should be cleaning the dog’s teeth fairly often anyway, whether that be with brushing or using other teeth cleaning products. I’ve read that giving dogs raw meaty bones is a great way to keep teeth clean as well.

And if you’re being told that dry food is good for teeth, as it cleans them while chewing then ignore it. It’s a myth. Dry food crumbles when bitten down on, especially by the dog’s conical shaped teeth, so it’s not “scraping” the teeth at all. And a bad dog food is going to have ingredients that are more “sticky” and keep the mouth dirty anyway, whether it’s dry or wet.