[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

First, I hope more people will chime in here with helpful advice. Now, to get to your questions as best I can.

It looks like your family is adding a lot of new members to the family. How great for all of them to be able to grow up and play together – and be fed raw. Looks like you’ll have your own little support group!

1. From all my reading on forums and Facebook, finding green tripe can be tricky. Some places ban the sale of it directly to consumers while others seem to be able to get it locally. I’m currently getting mine from MyPetCarnivore.com. I’m hoping that when I find someone who will sell direct, that they’ll also be able to provide the tripe. You’ll just have to ask and if they can’t, perhaps they’ll know where to get it.

2. Sure, you can grind necks. They aren’t terribly meaty, but they’ll grind easily enough. You should be able to start giving them whole when your pup gets a bit older. Chicken necks are tiny and I give them whole to my seven month old cat. I’ve been giving whole duck and turkey necks to Mystery since I started raw, he was 10 months at the time – he’s getting a turkey neck as part of his dinner tonight.

Different nutritionists/homeopathic vets will have various opinions on what, when, how and why to feed certain ingredients. I tend to lean toward Kymythy’s advice at the moment. She raises Newfies and feeds them raw as early as four weeks. The proof is in the health of her pups and adults.

3. I’m still not feeding veggies or “super” greens. Not a “purist” or anything but I wanted to first be sure I was feeding correctly the balance of meat/bone/organs and then get a blood panel or hair sample analysis – I’ll be scheduling that next week. Mystery’s only issues are a skin flaking problem – solved with coconut oil, and motion sickness – I’m still working on that and hoping he’ll grow out of it. So, until I get an analysis that says he needs more of this or that, I’m holding off on supplementing. I do give Mystery garlic for natural pest control and I also supplement with curcumen and vitamin C because Goldens have a high cancer mortality rate. I know a lot of people use “super” this and that as well as create their own veggie mashes. I would lean toward making my own purees since I believe nutrition from the source is best.

4. Most fruits have a lot of sugar in them. I would avoid most or feed them judiciously. I’ll share a banana with Mystery from time to time as well as give him apple slices, but not as a regular part of his diet. Here’s a basic chart that lists not only veggies and fruits that are toxic to pets but also plants as well as symptoms to watch for: http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/toxic.htm. And of course, you’ll find other sites that list fewer or additional foods.

5. Ah, SWEET potatoes. I haven’t read anything that shows a good reason to add most starches. That includes potatoes, peas, some beans. Many of these veggies convert starches to sugar when cooked. I used to give a tablespoon of pumpkin when our Sunset would have loose stools, but Mystery has had no problems there – and especially not since going raw.

6. I must defer to Kymythy on adding anything at all to an eight week old puppy’s diet. If you’re balancing 80/10/10 your calcium/phosphorus ratio is in perfect sync. Adding anything may not only increase the amount of calcium but may throw off that balance. Mess with that ratio and excess calcium can be deposited on the outside of the bones causing a number of issues. We had no idea that there was an issue with LBPs and calcium when we got Sunset 11 years ago. Before she was two, she required double-hip surgery. We got her from a backyard breeder (another ignorant move on our part), didn’t know much about hip scores and fed her what surely is on the one- or two-star lists here at DFA. I’ve been ultra focused on calcium since before I got Mystery.

An excerpt from Kymythy’s book, Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats:
By the time the young are ready to go to their new homes, they should be eating whole necks and regular meals with all the extras, and you may discontinue the enzymes and probiotics (although they may help counteract the digestive stress a youngster endures when going to a new home). Youngsters may be fed three times per day from eight weeks until four to six months old, then twice daily from four to six months old until one year of age, and once daily after one year of age. Giant breeds of dogs may need to be fed twice daily occasionally during growth spurts from one to three years of age. Either feed two complete meals or one complete and one of meaty bones (bones with ample meat) only. Observe your pet and adjust amounts accordingly. Do not feed so much that the stomach becomes overly extended. Do not let your pet become obese. A very thin layer of fat over the ribs is healthy, but too much weight puts extra stress on growing bones, joints, and hearts. A healthy wild animal is a lean animal. If your pet needs to lose weight, reduce its food intake. If it needs to gain weight, increase its food. Keep in mind that growing youngsters will eat more per pound of body weight than adult animals.

Schultze, Kymythy (1999-10-01). Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats (p. 67). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

Note the information on probiotics and enzymes is directed toward breeders who feed and wean pups to raw. If your puppy has been weaned to kibble, you might want to add some kefir to his diet for a time.

7. See #6, but I will take a look at the three products you mentioned for future use. I am not trying to discourage the use of any supplementation, just use caution and be sure you’re feeding only what is essential and beneficial.

8. I’m assuming you’re referring to the products in question 6 and maybe 7, not 8. LOL! I couldn’t find a guaranteed analysis of the Urban Wolf Balancer so I would be very wary of adding it. They do provide a recipe that uses their products with an analysis and it looks good. If you feel a strong need to supplement… Questions regarding their recipe ingredients might include, where do they get their fish oil from; is it guaranteed not to contain any toxins; if you use “canned” fish, do the cans contain BPA; if natural ingredients are better, why so many dried/powdered ingredients in their mixes? This is the hard part for me – giving my money to companies that sell premixes and toppers when I can just hit the market for fresh ingredients.

9. When you’re deciding on recipes, remember that your eight week old puppy is capable of handling chunks of raw meats, organs and bones. Even if he’s been weaned onto kibble before you get him, there should be no need to transition him as he hasn’t developed an addiction to the sugars and starches yet. I’d been feeding my kitten a kibble diet for about five months when I decided to transition the cats. Since he’d been stealing raw food from the dog, I went straight to raw with him and he jumped all over it, including chicken necks and other appropriately sized bones. I feed grinds only when the weather’s so bad that I can’t even put Mystery on the screened deck, usually when it’s too cold. The cats get fed in the tiled bathroom since they don’t feel the need to drag food all over the place – yet!

Any time you freeze or cook food, you’re going to lose a bit of nutritional value. Most of us have large freezers because we buy in bulk so frozen it is. Be sure you thaw foods and try to bring them to room temp before feeding. As Alpha in my house, I pull food from the refrigerator and let it sit on the counter until I’ve finished my coffee – then they get to eat. I know some people feed frozen foods but I wouldn’t do that to a puppy. Ever get brain freeze from drinking a shake too fast? Imagine a puppy’s digestive system trying to warm up frozen meat. There may be other opinions out there on this, but I would definitely feed three times a day for the first six months and then move to twice a day until he’s at least a year old. You should be feeding him 10% of his current weight until that exceeds 2-3% of his target weight.

I love Mercola. There is a chart floating around that shows who is fighting GMO labeling and who is supporting it in WA. I use it when I go shopping and yes, some of the products I’ve purchased in the past come from companies fighting WA. Let me know if you can’t find it. I get that having to label a product 50 different ways could put a hardship on business so I would support a federal label that is nothing less than FULL disclosure. That said, I don’t trust the FDA or any other governmental agency to have my best interest at heart. I’m a big fan of personal responsibility. The government assumes I’m ignorant…, I believe it’s a choice. (Whoops, gone political.)

I’m glad you were able to find a farm so quickly to meet your raw needs. Don’t forget to pick up chicken feet, green tripe, testicles, heart, kidneys… Go for goat and rabbit as well as chicken, turkey and beef. Something that I would have gotten wrong is differentiating between what are considered organs and what is not.

Organs: Liver (5% of the diet), kidneys, spleen, brain, thymus gland, panaceas and testicles (the other 5%)

Not organs: Heart, Gizzard, Tongue, lung, trachea, green tripe (all considered as part of the 80%).

Another site for learning more about feeding raw is here: https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=116. It’s a culling of articles from a variety of sources.

I better turn my attention to the vacuum and washer now or I’m going to be overrun by tumblefurs. I look forward to seeing you on Facebook soon.

[Brandy R]

Hi All,
I have been doing a lot of research about the BARF diet for my K9 babies and come across this forum. I live in St. Louis MO, have 4 dogs. 6 yr old Jack Russell (Bella)-overweight at 19.4 lbs, 2 yr old Jack Russell/Shih tzu mix (Candy)-rescued her she is perfect at 15.4 lbs, 2 yr old Shihshon (shih tzu/bichon frise mix) (Falcor)-very submissive but perfect 17 lbs and last but not least my 10 month old beagle (Brutus)-he is my problem child right now weighing in at 30.2 lbs he has separation anxiety terrible-inside and out. Will tear the house apart if left inside and digs up my tree outside….super rotten but I love him dearly.
I am extremely nervous about starting a raw diet mainly because I want to gag thinking about all the raw boney foods they will be eating and gnawing on…yuk but also scared they will choke on bones. Candy is not a gulper but the other 3 inhale their kibble and its even worse when i add egg or yogurt or cottage cheese to it. I can’t imagine what they would do with a chicken back or neck or any other raw meaty bone for that matter. Any suggestions? Also I read to feed them 2% of their ideal weight per day split into 2 meals, does that sound right?
I recently started eating healthy myself (more veggies and meat-less carbs) and have been concerned about my Bella and how overweight she is, so i started doing some research and that’s when I came across the raw diet and what I have read it seems to be so much healthier for my dogs. I want to keep them healthy and happy for many more years without breaking the bank in the process.
It seems if I can find a distributor that would be extremely cheap. I plan to stop by a couple local grocery stores and meat markets in the next few days to speak with the Butcher about getting some parts they don’t sell.

[Naturella]

Hm… I currently feed an all-grain-free kibble blend of 15lbs of Dr. Tim’s, 4 lbs of Nutrisca chicken, and 4lbs of Vets Choice Holistic Health Extension, all mixed in. He gets about 1 cup of that mix/day, in four feedings or so.

I have heard that pumpkin firms up stools, do you think I should still give it? He has a bowel movement 3 times a day.

I could try to add some fiber, maybe ground flax seed and/or yoghurt to his food? He gets coconut butter at breakfast every other day too. For treats, I am currently using some freeze-dried liver ones, frozen pineapple chunks, baby carrots, kale stems, or his kibble. We have just started adding some raw meaty bones once a week (for now), and I got some great coupons for free canned food, so I will be adding that in too in months to come.

[USA]

Hi Molzy

There will always be a risk in feeding a dog raw meaty bones. No one can guarantee you that a bone will never cause harm to your dog. Raw feeders want to feed their dog a similar diet to what wolves eat in the wild, believing it is the most natural and species appropriate.

One thing that I think is often overlooked is that when wolves consume bones they also consume the fur of the animal they are eating. The bone usually comes out the other end of the wolf wrapped in fur. The fur protects the inside of the wolf from being damaged as the bone makes its way through its digestive system.

For the gulping you could try feeding a large piece of frozen meat. The piece should be bigger than your dog’s head. This makes it almost impossible for your dog to just gulp down. Being frozen also makes it difficult to just swallow and could encourage your dog to chew. As long as you are able to take the piece away from your dog before it becomes small enough to swallow or when your dog has eaten enough, a frozen piece of meat larger than your dog’s head is an option.

Another option is raw boneless meat. This method has no danger of your dog being injured from bones. In this method you would have to add a calcium supplement to replace the calcium in the bones.

Reading a book like See Spot Live Longer (more geared to the beginner) or Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet (a little more advanced) both by Steve Brown will help you in preparing nutritionally balanced home prepared raw or cooked meals for your dogs.

I am not a fan of using a metal vice grips or a metal tube to stop your dog from gulping. I am worried that your dog might injure himself by chomping down on them or by trying to swallow the vice grips.

Good Luck with Quincy and LoJack!!!!

[Sue’s Zoo]

Currently feeding my 6 month old shiloh half raw (Primal) and getting ready to move the 3 month old to raw as well. I want to switch to full raw but cost is prohibitive with commercial foods so I’ve decided to order my MPC and do it myself.

My concerns are:

-Do I still need to consider kcal and calcium/phosphorus ratio? If so how on earth would I calculate it?

-If someone has experience with this do you think it will be completely overwhelming to keep everything ordered in proper quantities with two very fast-growing pups? The older is now 85 pounds and the younger is 40.

-Should I wait til younger pups adult teeth are in (raw meaty bones)?

I’ve done quite a bit of research and really want to do it but still feeling a bit overwhelmed. (Originally posted on Feeding Large Breed Puppies topic)

[Sue’s Zoo]

Currently feeding my 6 month old shiloh half raw (Primal) and getting ready to move the 3 month old to raw as well. I want to switch to full raw but cost is prohibitive with commercial foods so I’ve decided to order my MPC and do it myself.

My concerns are:

-Do I still need to consider kcal and calcium/phosphorus ratio? If so how on earth would I calculate it?

-If someone has experience with this do you think it will be completely overwhelming to keep everything ordered in proper quantities with two very fast-growing pups? The older is now 85 pounds and the younger is 40.

-Should I wait til younger pups adult teeth are in (raw meaty bones)?

I really want to do it but feeling a bit overwhelmed. (Maybe I need a topic for feeding non-commercial raw to large breed puppies!) Also posting under Raw Feeding topic.

[DogFoodie]

A couple things I was thinking…

Has your pup had a checkup with blood work recently? Bad breath could also be indicative of some medical issues.

Also, I once recall Sandy mentioning that she used this product with success: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047VWPNI/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_9?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Mine eat a variety of foods including raw and raw meaty bones and fortunately, neither has bad breath.

[theBCnut]

You can feed up to 20% of your dogs meals unbalanced without worrying about nutrient deficiencies. What this means is feed 4 meals of balanced commercial raw then one meal of meaty bones. You can use chicken or turkey necks, ribs from smaller animals, a chicken leg or wing, basically anything that has smaller whole bones so the dog has to crunch up the bones. Make sure the first few times you do this that they eat in front of you so if somebody tries to swallow something too large whole, you can intervene.

[Mom2Cavs]

I currently don’t feed commercial raw, but I have and will again I’m sure. First off, dry kibble does not help keep dogs teeth clean. In fact, if they chew it at all (most tend to swallow it whole) it merely sticks to their teeth, much like when we eat crackers or cookies…way more than canned or raw. Actually, the commercial raw would do a better job at keeping teeth clean because it has a more natural component and more readily available enzymes. I would definitely add raw, meaty bones as a component of your dog’s diet. I’m sure others who feed this way will be more able to direct you in how to do this. You’re on the right track with your pup, congratulations with the new addition!

[raylene5]

We will be getting a Miniature Schnauzer puppy next month and I had a question about how to incorporate heartier texture into a commercial raw diet. I’m pretty certain I will be feeding Primal Pronto nuggets…what can I do to ensure good dental health with a diet full of such soft food?

Do I give him raw meaty bones instead of one of the daily meals or do I just give a recreational bone once a week? What size and what kind for a puppy?

Thanks so much for the help! (Just to be clear, I’ve done a lot of research into the various raw diets and I will definitely not be preparing my own raw or feeding prey model 🙂 )

[theBCnut]

Hi ShelterGirl

Plaque build up on teeth is due to starch in dogs, just as it is in humans. Kibble is a high starch food. If you don’t want plaque build up on your dogs teeth, you brush them, just like you do in humans. Or you can try feeding raw meaty bones. Dogs that eat nothing but kibble still need to have their teeth cleaned regularly, so obviously kibble is not the answer to plaque build up.

No type of food leads to obesity, overfeeding any type of food leads to obesity. Weight issues are a matter of calories in, calories out.

[chrisalcor]

I agree with Patti – I raise rottweilers have push protein whenever possible. I use all life stages most often – and lots of grain free. Don’t forget lots of raw meaty bones. It increases the calcium, supplements with the chewing needs and the protein in the marrow is great for their skin, coats and muscle growth.

[Cyndi]

I feed my dog her turkey necks and other RMB’s (Raw Meaty Bones) in the laundry room on a towel. She’s real good about staying in one spot on the towel while she eats. Some other raw feeders here feed RMB’s in the dog’s crate. & some people feed them outside…

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Cyndi.

[pugmomsandy]

I ended up mixing foods because I couldn’t decide what food I wanted to use since there’s a million kinds out there! So after 3 years of trying things out, my staples are Nutrisource (grain free and small/med breed puppy), Nature’s Select (local) only the grain free or Hi-Pro formulas, Brothers Complete, Merrick (local), occasionally Nutrisca (some issues with their chicken from China and possible farmed salmon) so I just get their Lamb food, Vital Essentials freeze dried nibblets and I’ve thought about Victor because they are local too (made in Texas). For cans, I use Merrick, Wellness Stews, Weruva, Nature’s Logic, Hound and Gatos and sometimes Nutrisca lamb. Dehydrated foods I use are The Honest Kitchen, Addiction (with Big Dog Natural), Sojo’s (with Big Dog Natural) and I make my own raw food with duck, goat, tripe and organs and supplements and they eat whole raw sardines and sometimes RMB (raw meaty bones) like necks, pork ribs and chicken legs. All foods have their pros and cons and not all dogs do well on certain foods. For me, these work. I am thinking of boycotting Dogswell though. Too many issues with their treats and they use chinese chicken. Actually, I think I’ll scratch them totally off my list now… and Sojo’s uses some dried veggies from China so that’s going to have to go too when my bag is gone. It is frustrating sometimes trying to find good foods with good ingredients. I’ve probably used about 20 different kibbles in the past 3 or 4 years (my dog is 6 now). He’s such an inspiration for me to make homemade!! I lub him so much!! He has his own freezer full of goodies!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Naturella]

So, I made asked this question under another topic, but I feel like it deserves its own.

Here it is:

What is your stance on natural chews, such as bully sticks, dehydrated meaty bits (gullet strips, tripe and tendon pieces, etc.), antlers, Himalayan Dog Chews, and so on, versus raw meaty bones (RMBs)? Which is better? I know which is less messy, but still, I want to know which is better for a dog, and the one that is worse, how much worse it is? Or (ideally), are they sort of close/equal in the purposes they server (chewing entertainment and nutritional value)?

[pugmomsandy]

pacer1978

Since you’ve already introduced raw into the diet, just try out a raw meaty bone and see how they do. I have small dogs and started with chicken wings and necks. And then went to chicken legs. I do have 2 that chomp their bones pretty well and one that does a so-so job at it but in 2 years of raw meaty bones, he hasn’t had any issues. You can attach a large vice clamp onto a RMB or tie part of it to a broom stick or something like that so he can’t gulp the whole thing down and hopefully learns to not gulp. If gulping is a problem, then I would feed grinds and nothing harder than chicken bones. I would say that chicken necks and duck necks and very small turkey necks (about 1 inch diameter or less) are ok to slightly gulp down. This is what my 30 lb dog does! You can always whack the neck with a hammer first. If you want to incorporate raw and still feed kibble and other commercial products, then I would suggest chicken, turkey or duck necks 3 times a week and then maybe a couple meals of just ground meats/organ/calcium supplement (or commercial raw). Baby back pork ribs are also easy to break so that might be an option too. Frankly, I don’t think there is anything “sharp” in a small poultry neck bone so that might be a good bone for you to use. You can also buy a large leg bone just for them to enjoy chewing on instead of eating it.

[Oceans11]

I am picking up our 10 week old Coton de Tulear puppy next week. The breeder has him on kibble and is sending some home with us. I plan to transition him to Nature\’s Variety Instinct Raw and give him raw meaty bones several times a week for teeth cleaning purposes. My question is whether or not I should alternate giving him kibble and the raw diet?

[boobear27]

@pugmomsandy, My dogs eat Wellness small breed dry kibble twice a day..I plan on replacing a meal twice a week with a RMB..I’m afraid if I give then kibble with a RMB they might get stomach/constipation issues…My Toy poodle is susceptible to teeth problems I’m hoping the Turkey necks help keep her teeth healthy:)

[pugmomsandy]

Boobear27,

What are you feeding for dinner? Necks have alot of bone compared to meat. Could tend to make harder than normal stools. Just FYI. And raw fed dogs have small, formed stools that turn ashy in color BTW. For dinner, I would suggest some muscle/organs or whatever they are normally eating. I can feed 3 meals a week of RMB without worrying about nutritional deficiencies. I give my pugs 1/3 to 1/2 a turkey neck or 1/2 a duck neck. Actually I should give them 1/2 a duck neck, but I gave the whole thing! Generally speaking, they would only need 6 oz a day total of raw food so when I give them a big bone like that, they only get a small snack for dinner. Chicken necks are alot smaller and easier to measure out. I gave mine chicken wings when I first started too.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Katie,

Bless you for taking on this big boy. He’s lucky to have you.

I would think it’s likely that the chewing and biting could be food intolerance / allergy issues as much as it could be compulsive behaviors. Would you be in a position to try to distract him every time you catch him chewing? A quick walk, a quick game of fetch, a doggie massage? Also, maybe give him something healthy to chew on that is tastier than his nails or fur. That’ll give him some extra calories also. Try bully sticks or raw, meaty bones like a turkey neck for snacks and chewing satisfaction. Samoan81’s suggestion for satin balls is a also a great idea.

I think I’d get him off of the grains though and would definitely increase his protein. His body needs more protein to repair and rebuild. I wouldn’t use anything less than 30% protein. He’s an adult now, so you don’t have to be as concerned with Calcium levels ~ which are what you limit with a large / giant breed puppy ~ not protein. While she mostly suggests foods with grains, the Great Dane Lady has a list of foods she recommends along with some great advice. Have you visited her site: http://www.greatdanelady.com/. Also, here’s a link that’ll take you right to the page of foods she recommends: http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/criteria_list_of_better_foods.htm.

Also, one food I’ll suggest you try adding to his diet is Abady granular. It’s usually very well tolerated and is very calorie dense, about 800 kcals per cup. Their website is very strange, but I would suggest calling them and telling them what’s going on and get their recommendations. They’re extremely helpful over the phone. Here’s their website: http://www.abadyfeeds.com/ and here’s their phone number: Tele: (845)473-1900 * Toll Free: (877)-99ABADY .

Have you tried giving him some pureed pumpkin for the loose stools? That usually helps a lot.

Peace & Blessings,
Betsy

[boobear27]

@neezerfan My dogs did great for their first time:) I was really nervous to give it to them at first, but they turned out doing just fine. I got it at the Turkey meat section at Stop and shop from a brand called Shady brook farms and it was already cut to a nice small size for my small dogs. They were pretty inexpensive as well I bought some that had to be sold that same day and put it in the freezer as soon as I got home.

[neezerfan]

I would say 1 is enough for them. How did they do? Did Stop&Shop cut them lengthwise by any chance?

[boobear27]

How many turkey necks do you give a dog? Since it was my small dogs first time I gave them both one small size maybe half of a Turkey neck to start off with..Is one enough for them since they are small dogs? I don’t wanna cause any issues with them.

[boobear27]

I gave my Toy poodle and Rat Terrier their first Turkey neck this morning for breakfast. At first they weren’t really interested in it when it was frozen so I let it defrost and after that they loved every bit of it they were in turkey neck heaven:) I think next time I’m gonna try chicken necks and see how they will like those.

[theBCnut]

My 12 lb JRT gets about 1/5 to 1/3 of a turkey neck depending on the size of it.

[Melissaandcrew]

“Safe” depends on your dog. They are considered an acceptable item in the raw world for a dog to have, but if the dog is too aggressive of a chewer or gulper, it would be an issue. make sure youwatch them.

[boobear27]

@Cyndi Thank you for your reply:) My dogs eat dry kibble..Is it ok to give it to them after their kibble or would it cause stomach problems?

[Cyndi]

Turkey necks are perfectly safe to give your dogs, except they may be a bit big for them. I have a border collie mix and she’ll eat a half of a turkey neck for part of a dinner. Chicken necks and duck necks are smaller. Now that I think about it though, some of the pug owners here give their pugs turkey necks, so I guess they may not be too big. You don’t have to freeze them for any amount of time, just thaw them out and give to your dogs. You don’t have to cut anything really off of them unless there is a lot of skin on them, then you might want to take some off. The ones I get from my butcher don’t have a lot of skin so I just give them as is.

[boobear27]

I’m a RMB first timer:) I apologize in advance if I have too many questions. Are Turkey necks safe for a Toy poodle and a Rat terrier? My Toy poodle is more of a gentle chewer and the Rattie is more of an aggressive chewer.
I just bought some Raw turkey necks at the meat section at Stop and shop it’s from a brand call Shady Brooks Farm and it’s already cut in half..Would these be ok for them to eat? Do I give it to them straight from the package? or do I freeze them first and for how long do I freeze them before I give it to them? Do I cut of the skin and meat or leave it on?

[theBCnut]

Many vets want to see dogs on nothing but dry because of the old mistaken belief that dry keeps the teeth clean, but kibble fed dogs get nasty teeth too. The only way to guarantee good clean teeth is to brush them every day. The second best strategy is to feed raw meaty bones every few days.

[Nancy M]

I have already written on different topics, but basically right now, what I really want to do is get started. I have read almost non-stop on this subject, ordered a couple books, but need to start a beginning program. Right now I have a 3 year old Sheltie who is on a Hills I/d diet (dry and wet) and will be getting my new Sheltie Pup next week who is being fed ProPlan Focus Puppy Chicken/rice, with Pedigree Wet chicken/beef. I want to get both of these dogs switched over to a much better diet, preferably raw or combination/mixture of that.
How can I get this started? Just by adding a little raw meat/organ meat/meaty bones a little at a time, with their current kibble? The puppy will be easier, I think, but the older one is on the Hills diet for a reason; must have as low fat as possible…..also has issues with sensitive stomach.

Please advise ASAP.

P.S. I ALREADY HAVE ABOUT A HALF BAG OF PRIMAL FROZEN NUGGETS (sardine and turkey formula) to finish using up so I thought I might just start back in mixing some in with the kibble for awhile. I had started this once, but then I had to go out of town for a bit, and decided to start back again later. It’s later, so I’m ready to begin again.

[Nancy M]

I have gotten my dog into the habit of having an after meal snack/treat, which was originally intended to be for the purpose of teeth cleaning, and something he thoroughly enjoyed chewing on……the CT Dental chews. However, over time, he has started chewing the smaller/thinner ones so quickly, that he swallows larger pieces and then regurgitates them. This has become a growing concern to me, obviously. He loves to have something for “dessert” that is chewy. Other than raw bones, are there any suggestions out there, that would be nutritious and enjoyable as a “chew”? It has to be very low fat, non-greasy and help with tooth care. I’ve given him raw bones, but he gets bored with them once the meaty parts are gone, plus I don’t want to give him too many of those. I need something he can spend some time on, as he loves to chew. I’d love to find some type of bones or chews that would fit this description and would give him some real chewing action. Suggestions welcomed!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Is chicken quarters, chicken breasts and beef liver all you’re feeding her? How much of each? That’s really unbalanced. If you’re feeding too much of the bone-in chicken that could be causing constipation. She may also need some fiber if that’s all she’s getting.

Personally I would suggest checking out a book with balanced recipes (such as “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown) or getting a pre-mix (such as The Honest Kitchen’s Preference or See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix) and feeding the balanced mix as at least half of her meals, you can feed raw meaty bones and offal for the other meal or just feed raw meaty bones a few times a week supplementally. You may also want to get her on a quality multi-strain probiotic supplement. Loose and/or mucusy stools can be normal during the initial transition as your dog’s body is adapting and detoxing. My dogs didn’t have any issues at all switching to raw but I know some others’ on here have had problems so maybe they can give you a more detailed time frame of how long it should take the dog to adjust.

[Chuck]

Does anyone know of a site or book that has good recipes that are easy to follow? I see videos online and some sites like http://rawfed.com/links.html but nothing really concrete.. just I feed them chicken backs etc. Something with a little more detail I suppose.

And if I was going to do something like Primal patties and adding 10% meaty bone… how often would I be doing that a few times a week? daily? and Its ok to go to Sams club or whole foods and get chicken thighs and chicken backs and my pup eat the whole thing? Its going to be very weird to watch her eat bones.

Also If i were to continue feeding kibble (Wellness CORE or TOTW) along with patties at first would that be a problem? if so how would I ration that, treat the pattie like wet food?

Overall I want my dog to be as happy and healthy as possible, and again this morning she ate maybe 1/3rd of her food… she just wont eat dry kibble unless something is mixed in. So I really want to make this change as fast as possible

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Chuck.

[MaggieM]

Hello,

I have a question about using vitamins and green super food supplements. I just started feeding raw and I think I have the meals balanced between the raw meaty bones and the other half muscle meat, organs and some vegetables, eggs and dairy. I am hoping that this puts the calcium/phosphorus ratio is in a balanced range. I have been adding fish oil for the omega 3s and now I am a bit confused as to what else I should be adding. I know E is needed with the fish oil but I have been debating between just adding the E or just adding a simple multi-vitamin or one of these vitamin/mixes.

Berte’s Daily Blend
EarthOrigins
Dr. Harvey’s Multi-Vitamin
SpiruGreen Superfood

The Berte’s and the EarthOrigins seem to be more of a cross between a vitamin and green blend compared to the others. I have heard so many different opinions I am no longer sure what is really needed. Does any one have any thoughts?

Please help.
Thanks,
M

[Molzy]

Hello all,

I am considering switching my dogs to a raw diet. We have two 1.5-year-old Australian Cattle Dog Mixes. They are both rescue dogs. We adopted LoJack last October, and Quincy came home with us in July. Both of them came to us eating Science Diet, which we pretty much immediately threw out. I worked in a high-end pet store for years, and I am kind of a food snob when it comes to my pets. My cat, Ralph, has been on Nature’s Variety frozen chicken for over a year now, and does amazingly on it (for him, it has helped with his urinary tract infections). The dogs have eaten a variety of Nutrisource Grain-Free Salmon, Pure-Vita or Merrick dry kibble. My boyfriend and I are big on “Eat Local” and both of these companies seemed pretty good for commercial dog food. Now that we have graduated from grad school, we can start entertaining the idea of paying a little more to feed raw. When we just had LoJack he would also get raw meaty bones once in a while for his teeth, we haven’t tried giving Quincy those due to some digestive issues we’ve been struggling with.

Anyways, I am thinking of originally starting with a pre-made raw, and possibly slowly adding in some other stuff. My boyfriend hunts, so hopefully we will have some venison this year for them, and we also live in the country so there is the possibility of contacting local butchers for organ meats and stuff. We already own a hand grinder for the meat (though we may invest in an electric one if we end up going with raw!).

Anyways, what are your recommendations for pre-made diets? At this point, we would like to stick with a grind because of Quincy’s issues with chunkier food (I want to make sure that raw works before trying chunks, then slowly add chunks in to make sure we don’t cause issues). I am considering doing Nature’s Variety since it is balanced for cats and dogs, which would be nice, but it is also a little expensive, so I figured I would see if anyone else has any suggestions. I would also consider a pre-mix with ground meat.

One last question – can they have venison bones? We saved a bunch from the deer we got last year and froze them, but I got worried about chronic wasting disease, so we have never tried them. They are thinner than the beef/bison bones we normally feed, so I worried about him swallowing chunks as well.

Thanks!
Molly, LoJack and Quincy (and Ralph the cat)

[Cyndi]

Your best bet if you’re looking for teeth cleaning is an occasional raw meaty bone. Depending on your dog’s size, a chicken neck (for a smaller dog) or a turkey neck (for a larger dog) would be the best thing for teeth cleaning…
Since I’ve been feeding raw, my dog’s teeth sparkle. No sign of tarter or whatever it is dogs get on their teeth.

[theBCnut]

I’m sure you have noticed that dry doesn’t really keep teeth clean, so if that’s the only reason for feeding it then take a pass. Balanced raw is best. It has fresh specie appropriate food sources. After that, freeze dried, then dehydrated, because they are less processed and are usually a good source of meat proteins. Next would be canned, it is heat damaged but it has appropriate moisture and it is less processed than kibble and less starch than kibble. Last is kibble which is high in carbs and very processed.

For dental health, try brushing and raw meaty bones.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you read the ingredient list you’ll see that Greenie’s are a highly processed and unhealthy product. MOst people recognize the importance of avoiding processed foods for themselves and their children, the same is true for dogs.

The ingredients are:

Wheat flour, glycerin, wheat protein isolate, gelatin, water, rice flour, oat fiber, pea protein, potato protein, lecithin, natural poultry flavor, apple pomace, tomato pomace, minerals (dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, magnesium amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid complex, iron amino acid complex, copper amino acid complex, manganese amino acid complex, potassium iodide), ground flaxseed, choline chloride, decaffeinated green tea extract, sodium copper chlorophyllin, vitamins (dl-alpha tocopherol acetate [source of vitamin E], vitamin B12 supplement, d-calcium pantothenate [vitamin B5], niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement [vitamin B2], vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride [vitamin B6], thiamine mononitrate [vitamin B1], folic acid)

These are basically grains (gluten containing grains nonetheless), vegetable proteins and synthetic vitamins/minerals/amino acids. Why not feed your dog some real food with dental benefits? Raw meaty bones or natural chews like pig ears, bully sticks or dried tracheas. If you insist on feeding a processed dental product I’d at least recommend checking out Zuke’s Z-Bones – while they’re by no means a health food, they’re much better (ingredient-wise) than Greenies.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Sorry I somehow missed that post! I brush my dog’s teeth with a spin brush and use Vet’s Best dental gel. My dogs also get raw meaty bones daily. They both have super white teeth and odorless breath.

[Bill Rogan]

Hello!!! Beagleowner? Hope you feel better than before because your dog is gradually progressed.

You should bring diversification in you dog food menu. You should ensure that the diet you feed meets your dog’s requirements. It’s important that the diet you feed your dog is “complete and balanced,” meaning it meets all of your dog’s nutritional needs. It is not important, however, that every meal would be completed and balanced, unless you feed the same meal every day with little or no variation.

Following are the guidelines for feeding a raw or cooked homemade diet to get a healthy dog. No single type of food, such as chicken, should ever make up more than half the diet.

You should keep the followings in your consideration while cooking your dog food. Proper balanced dog food includes:

Meat and other Animal Products:

Raw meaty bones (optional)
Boneless meat
Fish
Organs
Eggs
Dairy

Fruits and Vegetables:

Starchy vegetables
Leafy green and other non-starchy vegetables
Fruits
Grains

Supplements:

Calcium
Oils
Fish oil
Cod liver oil
Plant Oils

Other Vitamins and Minerals:

Vitamin E
Iodine
Green blends

Hopefully you be benefited. Best of luck of you with your beloved dog.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Aussie Mom –

Homemade raw is actually much cheaper than pre-made raw. I spend just under $200 a month to feed my girls a homemade raw diet – for comparative purposes it would cost me nearly $800 per month to feed Darwin’s (based on the average cost of all of their formulas). There are many ways to keep costs low when feeding a homemade raw diet: 1) Utilize raw meaty bones (chicken backs, turkey necks, etc.) – they are much cheaper per pound than boneless meat and if fed in appropriate quantities will eliminate the need for a calcium supplement; 2) Use heart, gizzards and green tripe for the muscle meat component of the diet – these items are cheap and nutritious, dogs have no need for expensive cuts of meat such as boneless skinless chicken breast or beef sirloin; 3) Buy in bulk. I purchase my meat from a wholesaler that supplies restaurants and grocery stores – nearly every item I buy is under $1 per pound; 4) Purchase supplements from a human nutritional store, in bulk when possible – this is much cheaper than buying supplements marketed towards pets. I purchase all supplements for both myself and my dog from Swanson’s – best prices I’ve seen. I make my own green supplement by purchasing the ingredients I want in 1 lb. bags and combining them.

Hare Today is great – I do purchase a few things from there (mostly Green Tripe). Their products are not human grade as they contain things like green tripe, ground bone, fur/feathers (for whole prey grinds) that are not suitable for human consumption (but very nutritious for animals) and the products aren’t processed in a human food facility. Using Hare Today grinds may be slightly cheaper than pre-made raw but if you really want to cut costs you need to do it from scratch – many butchers will sell RMBs and offal cheaply as they’re not desirable for humans or hook up with a supplier like I did.

If you’re interested in homemade raw I would highly recommend purchasing “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. It’s wonderful book for beginners and includes AAFCO compliant recipes that are easy to make and utilize easy to find and cheap ingredients. Dogaware(dot)com is also a great online resource.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Are you feeding a commercial raw diet or a homemade raw diet? If you’re feeding a commercial raw diet there would really be no need to add additional vegetables, but as long as they’re just added in small amounts I’m sure it would be fine. Sweet potatoes don’t get crunchy when baked so baked sweet potato wouldn’t add any crunch. A vegetable would have to be raw and in large pieces to be crunchy and dogs can’t efficiently digest vegetables in this form. Vegetables should be fed cooked and pureed. If you want to add crunch, feeding raw meaty bones (like turkey necks, chicken backs, etc.) would be a much better bet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

HI k9cancer –

Most dogs will overeat if given the chance – especially when they’re being fed a highly palatable diet (such as a raw diet). It’s very important to keep large and giant breed puppies lean during the growth phase as excess weight can increase the chances that the pup will develop an orthopedic condition. If his weight looks good do not feed him more. Just adjust his portions based on his weight – feed more if he looks too thin, less if he looks to heavy and keep portions as they are if his weight is healthy. The product packages are a good starting point for determining serving size but they aren’t always accurate – this is why it’s important to be constantly evaluating body condition. If he gets diarrhea again I’d recommend adding a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin and supplementing with probiotics, if he’s fine now you could also start adding a little plain yogurt or kefir to his meals daily to start building his gut strength. If you want to provide him with food that has a “crunchy” texture for his enjoyment I’d recommend opting for raw meaty bones rather than kibble. The raw meaty bones will provide him with crunching a chewing pleasure as well as dental benefits – you may also find that he feels more satisfied after eating RMBs. You could replace a few meals a week with RMBs such as turkey necks or chicken backs. You can feed the RMBs with a bit of boneless meat or whole offal (hearts, gizzards, livers, etc.) to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio.

[InkedMarie]

Neezerfan: Hare Today comes in one and two pounders, too. Its only something like 20 cents more for the smaller chubs; it’s what I buy.

[theBCnut]

Betsy, you need a snood or a clothes pin or maybe a scrunchie.

[neezerfan]

Thank you all. HDM– baby steps, baby steps….

[NectarMom]

I have 4 dogs under 12lbs and I buy the 5lb packages of ground Rabbit and Venison and beef and tripe and what was suggested to me by Tracy the owner of Hare Today was to defrost the whole 5lbs and then individually bag in proportions enough for my 4 girls and then refreeze what I am not using that day and I have been doing this for a month with no issues.

[DogFoodie]

Two quick things…

1.) I had emailed My Pet Carnivore earlier (prior to posting my question here regarding trachea), but you guys responded first. In my limited experience with them, I will say this MPC has great customer service. I just thought I’d share their response regarding trachea:

“They are not considered any kind of bone, and we ourselves have fed
them as a treat (or a chew), but they would generally fall into the meat
category.”

2.) How do you give your pups a quick clean up after they’ve eaten a RMB? Bella’s ears and paws were a greasy mess after eating some pork neck bones this evening. I tried to clean her up with some puppy wipes I had on hand, but they didn’t seem to work very well. I’m headed back to work after a week’s vacation (staycation) and really don’t want to have to give her a bath tonight. But, for future reference, is there a quicker solution to greasy ears? : )

[theBCnut]

You can partially thaw the 3 lbs chub and cut it into appropriate size pieces and refreeze. It’s not ideal, but it’s not too bad either. It is only a few cents more to get the 1 lb chubs and they are a much better size for your situation.