[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

As far as wild game, I’ve only fed my dogs venison that my dad shoots. I’ve honestly never contemplated feeding shark or heard of anyone feeding it. I did a quick search and found two sites that say it is safe to feed: petmanage.com/fish-health/raw-fish-diet-for-dogs.html and rawlearning.com/fish.html. I would definitely give it a good long freeze though. I also wouldn’t go overboard as I’d assume shark is high in mercury.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Bigcoco –

1) 30% bone is way too much. As Patty said, bone should comprise 10% of the diet. The calcium to phosphorus ratio needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1 (ideally around 1.2 – 1.3:1). When the diet is 10% bone, 10% organ meat and 80% muscle meat the calcium to phosphorus ratio is right within that optimal range. A diet of 30% bone will be throwing that ratio of balance.

2) I checked out the product website and I can’t see where organs are included in the mixes? All I see is where they state 70% meat and 30% bone. If organ meat is not included in adequate quantities in the 70% “meat” you’ll need to feed organ meat. Organ meat should comprise 10% of the diet – 5% being liver and 5% being other organs (kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, brain, etc.). Organ meat provides crucial vitamins and minerals that aren’t provided by muscle meat.

3) I can’t find where the level of vitamin e in the Bravo salmon oil is stated on their website and often the amounts added to fish oils are too low. I checked out the Pet Naturals of Vermont Daily Best supplement and there is little vitamin e in that either. Small dogs should get 50 – 100 IU per day, medium dogs 100 – 200 IU per day and large dogs 200 – 400 IU per day. Vitamin e requirements increase when fish oil (omega 3’s) is being supplemented, if adequate quantities are not received with omega 3 fatty acid supplementation the dog will eventually develop a vitamin e deficiency.

4) It’s also possible your dog could be deficient in certain trace nutrients – it’s hard telling without a nutrient analysis but because the Pet Naturals supplement is designed to be fed with a complete and balanced commercial food the amounts of vitamins and minerals are very low (as they are with most pet supplements). To ensure your dog is getting all the trace nutrients he needs I’d recommend either supplementing with a human multivitamin – base the dosage off a 100 lb. person (i.e. 25 lb. dog gets 1/4 human dosage, 50 lb. dog gets 1/2 human dosage, 75 lb. dog gets 3/4 human dosage, 100 lbs.+ gets human dosage) – or adding whole food supplements. I prefer to avoid synthetic supplements for my dogs so I feed a variety of nutrient-dense whole food supplements like kelp, alfalfa, bee pollen, spirulina, wheatgrass, glandulars, sprouted nuts & seeds, etc.

“Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a fantastic resource for raw feeding. It’s a really great book for beginners – short and easy to understand and includes AAFCO compliant recipes. You may want to checkout this book. It was a constant resource for me when I first started feeding homemade raw.

[theBCnut]

I get raw from 3 companies and the grocery store, but Darwin’s is the only “balanced complete” diet I buy. I really like it.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sheltie’s Mom –

If you’re feeding a balanced commercial food you don’t need to add any organ meat and I’d keep the tripe to 20% or less of the meal. If you’re making your own food organ meat should account for 10% of the diet (5% liver and 5% other organs) and tripe can account for as much of the other 90% of the diet as you want. Tripe has a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio so calcium doesn’t have to be supplemented to account for the tripe. Organ meat is very rich in phosphorus and contains almost no calcium so you’ll want to add around 1,200 mg. calcium per pound of organ meat fed. Gullet and trachea contain mostly cartilage and a small amount of muscle meat – they have close to a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. If you’re just feeding trachea or gullet once in awhile as a chew, I wouldn’t worry about balancing the calcium to phosphorus ratio.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi taylorjesset –

The only K9 Natural’s formula I would consider feeding is the chicken. The beef and lamb formulas are way too high in fat (and this is coming from someone who feeds their dogs a high fat diet). For the average dog fat should be 50% of protein, for more active dogs or dogs prone to weight loss it’s fine to feed fat levels up to around 90% of protein, but unless a dog is a serious working dog (as in a sled dog in training or something similar) fat should never exceed protein. My dogs are extremely active hounds, I generally keep their fat levels between 60% and 80% of protein. The K9 Naturals Beef formula is 27.8% protein and 57% fat (on a dry matter basis) and the lamb formula is 28.9% protein and 53.8% fat on a dry matter basis! These foods have almost twice as much fat as they do protein. Eating a food this dense in fat could cause your dog to eat it’s daily amount of calories without fulfilling protein requirements. When foods are this high in fat it’s also a good indication that the meat used is very low quality (fatty cuts unwanted in the human food industry).

[pugmomsandy]

The Honest Kitchen has a couple of grain free foods and the ingredient lists are quite short compared to alot of foods and both your pugs can eat it. My pugs eat the Zeal formula on occasion. The pugs at my house also eat Brothers Complete, Nutrisca and Nutrisource Grain Free for kibbles. You might want to give (if you’re not currently doing so) daily probiotics/digestive enzymes to both your pugs to help with gut health and immune system. For canned food, Merrick 96% grain free is very simplistic as well and has vits/minerals so can be fed daily as a meal not just as a topper. Also you might want to give tripe a try – raw green tripe. You can find this in the frozen section at the pet store. It is very easily digested and has natural probiotics in it already. I’ll attach an article about it when I get home if someone else doesn’t do it first! Go to greentripe.com and use their store locator. Some better pet boutiques and feedstores will have it. If you join a yahoo group such as a BARF group, the members can probably help you locate a local source for tripe. There’s also canned tripe although not as good as raw tripe. Merrick and Solid Gold and Tripett have canned tripe. The pugs absolutely love tripe. They even get tripe spring chews instead of bully sticks. For raw tripe my boys eat 6 oz a day. For canned food they will eat one can a day.

How much BB were you feeding and which formula? When I used BB Wilderness the pugs only ate 2/3 cup a day total. One of my fosters lost 10 lbs on a diet consisting of canned food and raw food only. He started at 38 lbs.

[turtlemom]

I have a couple Great Danes. I am always researching food and comparing dry kibble labels. They were on Blue Buffalo but my local store went up on the price to 65 bucks a bag I had to re evaluate my budget for dog food. I went to a crap food and they are eating twice as much so the search is on for a good food again. I loved Blue Buffalo but is there a better dry food out there????

I’d love a high calorie food so they don’t have to eat as much (less poo)
I’d love glucosamine and Chondroitin and Omega’s

What is a great dog food for Danes? I’d love to eventually do a raw natural diet….. but that is for another research day 🙂

Oh and sorry if this is already answered … I tried to search but only found large breed puppy info.

Thanks !

[NectarMom]

Mary Lou, I am thinking you might be right so we are stopping the Raw until we speak to Darwin’s and see if they have any suggestions. We may have to stop Raw and try another lower protein grain free , potato free kibble. Sigh. I just really hate seeing my girls uncomfortable in any way.

[NectarMom]

Mary lou, My dogs are not throwing up the food. it is hours later after the food has already digested that they throw up clear foamy liquid. I am afraid of any food that has been recalled and Natures Variety has been recalled before. My main concern right now is the acid reflux they have been having since switching to a high protein kibble. I am feeding Darwin’s Raw diet Turkey and I am wondering if it by its self is nutritionally sound for my crew. Darwin’s is closed today or I would be calling them asking. Thanks for your reply though 🙂

[Mary Lou]

NectarMom ~ our Bichon does not do well on kibble. Even if it seems to go well initially, we end up with throwing up. He does not get much kibble, but I have found two he seems to do ok on in small amounts. Right now, he has some Nature’s Variety LID Duck. They have a turkey, as well. He also does well on Nutrisca Salmon. Unfortunately, the only turkey they have is canned. He seems to do fine on high protein ~ unless it’s in a kibble. I believe these are around 29 and 30. He eats more raw and canned, but has had no issues with either of these kibbles. I hope you can find a solution for your pups.

[Melissaandcrew]

Nectar mom-

First, if a food was causing an issue to the point that I had to give all 4 pepcid, I would not be using that food. Unfortunately, as you know, each dog is different, so it can be trial and error until you find one that works for all problems that a given dog may have-some do better on grain free, some do better on grain inclusive or raw etc. Several of my dogs do not do well if the kibble protein goes over 33 or so percent. Why, I have no idea as they do fine with raw/canned etc that exceed that amount.

[NectarMom]

I am having the same problem with my 4 small dogs. I am feeding Brothers Allergy formula since Sept 2012 and I just started adding Darwin’s Raw to it with very little 95% can food (Turkey is the protein ) I am thinking it is the high protein from Brothers since they had this issue before I added the Raw. The problem is for me is that most of these freeze dried are loaded with potato. I give Pepcid AC to them but its not helping. I already had one with an ulcer due to this and an ulcer takes forever to clear up. I don’t want another one coming up with one also. It seems I cannot win for loosing. If I go 100% Raw would that solve it or would they not get enough nutrition? I am getting confused on this whole thing of high grain free protein is better yet it is causing health issues?

[NectarMom]

I am going to change my review just a bit because I do not know if it is the Raw causing this or not. I feed at 6AM every morning before I go to work and then usually around 5:30PM I feed again. I am mixing 1 TBSP of Raw with 1/8 cup of Brothers Allergy, less than half TSP of pumpkin and wellness 95% turkey and then mixed with that in the morning they get half a scoop of mercola enzymes and evening meal they get half scoop of probiotics. My problem is in-between because all the sudden hours later after a meal some are throwing up clear foam. Is this because they are needing something in between meals? I was thinking of getting some mercola bones for them to chew on. We have been on a good routine before the Raw added where 2 of my girls are loosing weight and they needed to. I don’t want to add anything else to the diet to make them gain weight. Stools are fine and no throwing up any solid food so just the throwing up hours later the clear foamy liquid. Any suggestions on what I can give them? Thanks 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi JenRose –

You may want to consider a dehydrated food, it’s much easier to find dehydrated foods that are lower in protein and fat than canned foods. Dehydrated foods will have the same consistency as canned foods when re-hydrated (as I know MegaE dogs tend to do better on foods with a “gruel” consistency). Some options:

-Addiction: They have a line of dehydrated foods with protein levels ranging from 18% -22% and several options with under 15% fat.
-The Honest Kitchen’s Verve is 22.5% protein and 8.5% fat.
-Sojo’s has two formulas that both have 22% protein and 8% fat.
-I and Love and You has three dehydrated options with 22% protein and fat levels ranging from 8% – 10%.
-Only Natural Pet’s Easy Raw dehydrated foods have 22% – 23% protein and 8% – 10% fat.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi crazy4cats –

Feeding a variety of red meat, poultry and fish (or if not feeding fish, supplementing with quality fish oil) is very important. Different meats have different amino acid profiles, it’s important to feed a variety so your dog gets a full spectrum of amino acids. Even two different types of poultry – say, chicken versus turkey – will have completely different amino acid profiles. Rotating for this reason isn’t quite as critical when feeding balanced commercial kibble or canned foods as it would be with feeding a home cooked or raw diet as commercial diets should be formulated to include adequate levels of essential amino acids, but it’s still important. Different meats also contain different types of fat: poultry is high in polyunsaturated fats (especially linoleic acid) and low in saturated fats and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), ruminants are high in saturated fats and low in polyunsaturated fats and DHA and fish is, typically, rich in DHA. Feeding your dogs a variety of different protein sources will help balance the fats in their diet. It’s important that dogs (and cats) consume a balanced spectrum of fats, in order to do this they will need to consume a variety of red meats and poultry supplemented with fatty fish or fish oil or it will be necessary to balance the fats in their food – this would involve supplementing red meat recipes with alpha linolenic acid (ALA), Linoleic Acid (LA) and DHA (walnut oil or hemp oil or canola oil in addition to a fatty fish or fish oil) and supplementing poultry recipes with ALA and DHA (chia seeds or flax and fish or fish oil). I don’t know of any kibble or canned food manufacturer that balances the fats in their foods so it’s best to feed a variety. I personally prefer single protein group foods – red meat, poultry, fish but a food that contains both poultry and red meat would be better than only feeding poultry based foods or only feeding red meat based foods. When I fed kibble I’d cycle between a red meat based food, then a poultry based food then a fish based food. Red meat would be beef, lamb, venison, bison, pork, etc. Poultry would be chicken, turkey, duck, etc. In addition to the reasons stated, I like red meat (for my homemade raw diets) because I have a greater variety of organ meat to choose from. When feeding poultry the only option is liver (gizzards and hearts count as muscle meat), this isn’t enough variety. So I typically feed red meat organs because I can get liver, kidney, lungs, spleen, pancreas – I can also get healthy “by-products” such as trachea, gullet and green tripe.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi texasniteowl –

You may want to get your boy on some supplements that will help his allergies – quercitin, nettle, burdock root and perilla leaf, omega 3’s, bromelain, papain and coconut oil are all supplements shown to help ease allergy symptoms. Aunt Jeni’s sells a supplement called “Enhance Allergy Aid” with vitamin c, burdock root, quercitin and biotin. Vet’s Best sells a supplement called “Seasonal Allergy Support” with bioflavinoids, nettle leaf, vitamin c, perilla leaf and quercitin. You may want to consider purchasing one of these or a similar supplement and giving him some fish oil and coconut oil daily.

If your he is indeed allergic to your grass you should bathe him frequently in an herbal shampoo (avoid oatmeal-based shampoos) and have a foot soak ready to use after he’s been outdoors (you can make a solution using 1 gal. water, 1 c. hydrogen peroxide and 1-4 c. white vinegar or you can mix povidone iodine with water). Soak his feet every time he comes indoors so he’s not tracking the allergen through your house and vacuum frequently.

You should make sure his food is low in carbohydrates as high carbohydrate diets are “pro-inflammatory” and can worsen allergy symptoms. Your best bet, as Patty mentioned, would be a balanced raw diet. If that’s not possible a high protein canned or dehydrated food would be the next best option. If you must feed kibble keep it high protein. My top picks for kibble would be Orijen (38-40% protein), Nature’s Variety Instinct (35 – 42% protein), EVO (42-52% protein), Solid Gold’s Barking at the Moon (41% protein), Artemis Maximal (42% protein) Earthborn Primitive Natural (38% protein) or Wysong Epigen (60% protein). If you can at least top the kibble with balanced raw or a high quality canned or dehydrated food, this would be better than kibble alone.

Supplementing with probiotics is known to help allergies as well. I would recommend adding a high quality multi-strain probiotic to the food such as Mercola Probiotics, Garden of Life Primal Defense, Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS or Swanson’s Soil-Based Organisms. Probiotics may help firm up his stool as well. Some other ideas to help firm him up would be adding a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each meal and supplementing with digestive enzymes.

Remember it may take several weeks for things to clear up. Good luck!

[Hound Dog Mom]

I don’t have dobermans, but I have “large active dogs” (3 bloodhounds). I’ve found they do best on a high protein, moderate/high fat, low carb raw diet without grains or starches. Their meals average around 50% protein and 35% fat. They seem to maintain their weight better with higher fat levels.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi JillMcN –

Please be aware that using a pre-mix will not necessarily ensure that your dog is getting all the nutrients it needs. There are a few pre-mixes available that meet AAFCO nutrient profiles when prepared per instructions (The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, U-Stew, Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix), but many have no claim of meeting the AAFCO’s nutrient standards and many of these – like Sojo’s, for example – don’t appear to be conplete and balanced when prepared according to the instructions. These unbalanced pre-mixes would be fine to use intermittently, but to feed long term you would need to know what supplements to add in order to balance the recipe. So if you’re planning on using a pre-mix long term, please make sure it meets the AAFCO’s nutrient standards.

The recipe you posted actually appears to be quite balanced, only a few things that I’d tweak. I’d cut the liver from 8 oz. to 4 oz. and give 4 oz. of another organ (kidney, lungs, spleen, etc.) I’d add another whole food supplement (such as alfalfa or wheatgrass) in addition to the kelp. I’d also highly recommend rotating in red meat for the poultry 50% of the time – this will help balance the fats as poultry is high in polyunsaturated fats (particularly linoleic acid) while red meat is high in saturated fats and low in polyunsaturated fats. Red meat is also much higher in iron and many micronutrients than poultry. There are several books available that contain complete and balanced recipes that are AAFCO compliant. “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is my favorite – the recipes are for raw food but could easily be converted to cooked by substituting muscle meat for any RMB’s and adding 800-1,000 mg. calcium per pound of meat.

[JillMcN]

I have a recipe by Andi Brown – I’ve made it once for my 7-yr-old-pug and I’d like to make it again while I continue researching the things I need to add.
It is home-cooked, not raw. I’ll post it after my question. After reading some posts here, I got as nearly-to-powder as possible some egg shells to add to each meal (1/4 tsp.) and some sardines for Omega 3s (although there is wild-caught salmon on the recipe).

When I cook the chicken, I obviously remove the large bones, but there are several small bones that I think would be very soft and thoroughly decimated by my extra-strong hand blender.
Is the answer always “no” – do not feed cooked bones, even finely mushed-up cooked bones to our dogs?

Thanks in advance.

The recipe I used (minus the oats and minus the garlic):
The Whole Pet Diet Chicken Stew
Special note: use organic ingredients whenever possible
• 5 pounds Whole Chicken or Turkey (bones, organs, skin and all)
• 6 – 8 cups spring water
• 1/2 pound of additional beef liver, or chicken liver or turkey liver (your choice)
• 1/2 pound of wild salmon
• 2 cloves chopped fresh garlic
• 1/2 pound green peas
• 1 pound coarsely chopped carrots
• 1/2 pound coarsely chopped sweet potato (yam)
• 1 pound coarsely chopped zucchini
• 1 pound coarsely chopped yellow squash
• 1/2 pound of coarsely chopped green beans
• 1 pound coarsely chopped celery
• 1/4 teaspoon kelp powder
• Dash of dried rosemary
See Chef’s Tip on Freshly Grated Toppings
For Dogs:
Add 12 oz. of Rolled Oats and adjust the water content to a total of 12 cups or enough to just “cover” the ingredients.

Combine all ingredients in a 10-quart stock pot (stainless steel, please). Bring to boil, reduce to low, and simmer for about 1 1/2 hours.

Once finished (your carrots are soft), let cool and de-bone the chicken by hand. With an electric hand mixer (I use one available from Sears for about $19) or a food processor, blend all the ingredients into a nice puree. Using plastic yogurt containers, or Tupperware, make up “meal-sized” portions or what you will need for three days, and freeze what you don’t need immediately.

[NectarMom]

Yes we are on turkey. I think in my situation it is best that I do not over load my dogs with raw meat on a bone due to they are so sensitive to change in anything in a diet. I am currently having issues with my shihtzu after day 2 on just mixing a half a teaspoon of Darwin’s turkey. Shes eating and no temp but shes very sluggish which is surprising due to my one with intestinal issues is fine and my shihtzu is following me around like there is no tomorrow and shes never like that. My shihtzu’s stool was a bit soft but not runny but I don’t like the way she is acting and nothing else has changed in her environment but the Darwin’s. I do things slow with them since they have had alot of issues with diet change. I am super parinoid of introducing any type of Raw with my dogs so I am taking baby steps to do this transition if it even works. Thank you both for your wealth of info and just to let you know it has been taken in and I really appreciate the advice.

[kmarron]

Thank you for the advice!

[NectarMom]

I got my Darwin’s Turkey order Wed and it was packed so well and still very frozen so I put all of it (which was ALOT) into the freezer and kept one pack out for in a couple of days ( Today). Darwin’s called me the day the shipment came in and walked me through how to make a hopefully smooth transition start. I can honestly say I was very very nervious about starting a raw diet for my dogs since I hate meat with a passion ( I do not eat it)

Day one: Per advice from Darwin’s – Feed my usual mix and add in just half a teaspoon with each dogs meal of Darwin’s and mix in enzymes ( Mercola Brand) Now I have a VERY picky Shihtzu that will only eat out of my hand her kibble and can food but not this morning, she was trying to eat everyone elses and when I put her bowl down ( shes always last eating because shes so picky) Everyone else would eat her food before she got a chance but not this morning she actually ate all of her mixture right out of the bowl…OMG …I have not ever seen her do that in 2 1/2yrs she was born.

My short coat Chihuahua ( GiGi) smelled the Darwin’s in the bo as soon as I brought it in and put it on the floor. She was litterally climbing the walls wanting what was in that box ( Frozen Darwin’s LOL! I truely believe she would have eaten it frozen she wanted it that bad..hehe!

Now this is just the first day on it and the first feeding so I am hoping we do not have issues and I guess my only concern is the sweet potato since we are on a potato free diet. Time will tell if it agrees with GiGi since she is the one with intestinal allergies to what we do not know yet but for sure she is allergic to insect bites but that is not food related. Keep your fingers crossed for us. This is going to be a very slow process and we hope to make this work for our girls. I love the extra container they send to keep the raw in but I just for right now wish the porportions were a bit smaller since I am sure within 48 hrs I will be throwing some away.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Sounds like Shadow is thriving on his new species-appropriate diet! Glad to hear it 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Marie –

I’m not convinced a dog can get all the nutrients it needs on a meat/organ/bone only diet unless it were to be eating a variety of wild caught whole prey animals (which isn’t realistic). There are a lot of items that are necessary to add in order to provide vital trace nutrients. I’m actually working on posting my dogs’ latest menu plan to the recommended menus thread. I ran a full nutrient analysis on this menu plan to ensure that it conforms to the AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages. I’ve always been a believer that meat, organs and bone alone aren’t adequate, but after doing this analysis (and suffering the headaches that came with it lol) I’m sure of it.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shihtzumom –

If your dog was passing undigested veg – the veg wasn’t processed properly. Veg needs to be cooked and pureed before adding to the food. I wouldn’t advise feeding a diet without veg as it provides trace nutrients, antioxidants and fiber. You could feed the all meat variety amd prepare your own veg or use baby food (there are many “pouch” baby foods available that contain only fruit and veg). My dogs get fresh cooked and pureed veg at breakfast every day – broccoli, spinach, carrots, squash, parsley, etc. I used to add fruit occasionally, but now I just give them each a capsule of a freeze-dried fruit concentrate daily – it’s the antioxidant equivalent of a serving of fruit without the carbs and sugars.

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Guys!
I just wanted to give an update on how Dawson is doing on his “real” raw diet! So far he has loved and therefore devoured every meal he has had, which is something for him! He bounces and dances until I put his bowl down. He has loved all the proteins, so far he has had chicken, turkey, duck and beef. What a change for the better! I have also noticed that his eyes are nice and clear and he doesnt have constantly wet “cheeks”. His fur is so soft! It is so nice to have him eat with such vigour instead of throwing his meal all over the floor.
I have a question though, there are carrots in the “dinners” , but I noticed they look the same coming out as they did going in! I was thinking about changing to the 100% meat blends that dont include veggies, or should I not worry too much about carrot pieces? If I do switch to the 100% do i have to worry about more supplements, he gets krill oil, vitamin D and vitamin E. He is getting locally pre-made raw Big Country Raw. Plus I am wanting to add more things like turkey necks, and he Loves beef trachea (so far it is dehydrated), I believe that you guys said it could be up to 20% of his diet, is that right?

[Melissaandcrew]

I would isolate the dogs overnight(different rooms) to determine which one is doing the house wetting overnight-My concern is the fact that you are stating the urine is clear, which means the dog does not appear to be concentrating the urine properly and could signify a kidney issue. Take the “offending” dog to the vet once you discover which it is, and have a full chem panel and ua done.

My dogs do not eat 100 percent raw-their meals are varied, but NONE of them urinate excessively when they do get it, nor do they urinate clear.

[Melissaandcrew]

Sorry-nothing productive to add except that your comment Patty, cracked me up : )

gebo- I am one of the few that will feed a corn containing product from time to time as part of my rotation. Not that I believe its GOOD for them, but I also do not believe that its the end of the world for a small portion of their diet. I believe in hedging my bets on the current schools of thought to dog feeding. Could one version be better factually(not opinion) then another? Sure-but I do not feel that any methods provide enough definitive proof for me to subscribe to just one. Therefore, I feed grain free, grain inclusive, one that contains corn(from time to time-Pro Pac) raw, dehydrated, fresh, canned, home made etc. While not every one will agree on what method is best, understand that the majority of the regular posters have researched their choosen way/method and do not follow along blindly.

[theBCnut]

I can’t help but wonder if the particular brand you’re feeding has a lot of salt in it. None of mine increased their urination when I switched to raw. Can you do a couple of days of feeding just hamburger or something to get them off the food you’re feeding, just long enough to tell if it affects their urinating, then go back to balanced food? If you didn’t see a change quick, I wouldn’t put off having a urinalysis done.

[K-Rae]

I started my 4 dogs onto pre-made raw a month ago. They are currenty getting chicken and beef (carnivora.ca), and mixed raw bones to chew on once or twice a week. I plan on switching them onto a different brand (k9choicefoods.com) and serving beef, bison and llama. No more chicken.
My 9 yr old pom/chi and my 8 yr old german shepherd are urinating way to much. The 10 yr old westie is a little more and the 1 yr old collie/chihuahua (yes I know) is completely normal. I have asked my vet for her opinion and she says switch back to kibble and you won’t have a problem, and if it does continue bring them in. I will not switch back to kibble, and the increased urination is the ONLY negative side effect.
– not drinking any more water (actually was less then when on kibble)
– eating supper at 6:30 out several times before bed at 10-11pm and directly before bed
– urine is clear when they mess in the house over night (not sure which dog, but probably the pom)
– eating 2% of their weight (they are at perfect weight and all extremely fit)
– never had any health problems other than food allergies (why we went to raw)
– normal energy level, maybe slightly increased because they feel good
– the pom has started eating feces again (he did it when he was a pup) * I have reviewed other forums on that and will be adding enzymes as per HDM 🙂
– everyone is defecating properly as per raw, not straining and not overally chalky
I am an educated dog owner, and have done my research before switching to raw. The pre-made works best for us because we work in emergency services and really never know when we will be called out and how long we will be gone. We need to be able to have a friend stop by and feed the dogs and can’t expect someone to feed primal raw for us or spend a long amount of time preparing it. I always keep 2 days of food portioned out into sealed glass containers in the fridge.

I am curious if other people that feed raw have had this problem? Did it resolve it’s self? Is it possible it is the chicken diet? I really don’t know? I am at a loss as to why they are urinating so much. Any help is appreciated.

[barfworld1]

Hi, So sorry to hear about your dog. There are some great tips on how to treat cancer with a natural raw diet. Check out this blog at http://www.barfworld.com/html/IPEzine/TIP_10_2013.html and please let us know if you have any questions.

[Hound Dog Mom]

There are several brands that manufacture pre-mixes. These are some of the most popular:

-The Honest Kitchen
-Sojo’s
-Grandma Lucy’s
-Urban Wolf
-Birkdale Pet Mix
-Dr. Harvey’s
-See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mixes
-U-Stew
-Wysong’s Call of the Wild

[kmarron]

Thank you for the input. I will check out the Marie’s site. Hound Dog Mom, where would I find a pre-mix?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Janet –

If you’re sure the “scooting” is not due to anal gland issues I would bring a stool sample to the vet to check for parasites just in case (certain worms – such as tapeworms – can cause “scooting”).

To help with the stools and the transition to a new food I would add a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each meal and supplement with probiotics and digestive enzymes (there’s no need to buy a “pet” supplement, something from the health section for at the grocery store with suffice and likely be cheaper). You can continue the pumpkin and supplements permanently if need be.

Grain-free foods are, unfortunately, pricier than grain-inclusive foods. Earthborn is probably one of the most budget-friendly grain-free foods available. Some other options would be Nutrisource, Taste of the Wild, The Source, Victor, Authority and 4Health (note: Taste of the Wild and 4Health are manufactured by Diamond). NutriSource, Taste of the Wild and Source run about the same price as Earthborn while Victor, Authority and 4Health are slightly cheaper. Authority Grain-Free is available exclusively at Petsmart. The Source and 4Health are available exclusively at Tractor Supply. Earthborn, Taste of the Wild and Nutrisource can be found at most high end pet specialty stores and online. Victor will likely be the most difficult food to locate – I haven’t been able to find an online retailer and it’s not sold in my area but if you can find it, it looks like a fantastic food and it a great bargain.

You’re correct that dry food doesn’t really clean teeth, that’s a myth. I wish it wasn’t though – I’d eat potato chips and cookies all day and use the excuse that it’s for my dental health lol. 🙂 Canned food is actually healthier and more species appropriate (higher moisture content and higher protein levels) so if you can afford to occasionally buy some quality canned food (4Health has some grain-free varieties that are a bargain at only $0.99 per can) that would be great for your dog. Healthy “people food” is good to add to kibble too – eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean meat, plain yogurt, cottage cheese, low glycemic veggies, etc.

I think raw bones are best for dental health. My dogs eat a raw diet and get raw bones daily – beef ribs, pork necks, turkey necks, chicken backs, etc. If you’re going to buy something from the store I’d go for “natural” chews (make sure they’re made in the US) such as dried tracheas, bully sticks and pig ears – these are species-appropriate (high protein, grain-free) and great for dental health. As far as “treats,” I’d go with high protein meaty treats such as jerky (made in the US of course), grain-free biscuits or freeze-dried raw foods. I’m a big fan of Nature’s Variety Instinct dog biscuits, EVO biscuits and Darford Zero-G biscuits (although I’m not sure if the Darford biscuits are being made anymore 🙁 ). I also feed freeze-dried raw (such as NV Instinct and Stella & Chewy’s) as treats.

[Hound Dog Mom]

HI kmarron –

Have you considered a pre-mix? If you use a pre-mix you just add meat and water, all the vitamins and minerals are in the pre-mix so you don’t have to worry about whether the diet is balanced. There are many pre-mixes available with low glycemic ingredients. And definitely check out the site Marie posted a link to – that site is a wonderful resource for everything dog related.

[InkedMarie]

I replied on the other thread to go to http://www.dogaware.com, I’m pretty sure he has cancer diet ino there.

[InkedMarie]

Go to http://www.dogaware.com, I’m pretty sure she has cancer diets listed there. Good luck.

[kmarron]

My dog was diagnosed this year with a form of lymphoma. I changed her diet to cooked meat and veggies with no grains. The cancer skin lumps started going away and were practically gone. I worried about this diet not having the correct balance of nutrients, vitamins and minerals, so I changed her diet to follow Dr. Becker’s real food recipes. The lumps are coming back. I believe this is because of the high glycemic foods in her recipes, namely the fruit. So I am going to modify the recipe to exclude all of the fruit except some blueberries and green apples (lg. sugar molecule fruit). Again I worry about how this change affects the nutrient balance. Should I just continue with her formula for vitamin supplement mix, or is there something more to add now that the fruit is eliminated?

[kmarron]

My dog was diagnosed this year with a form of lymphoma. I changed her diet to cooked meat and veggies with no grains. The cancer skin lumps started going away and were practically gone. I worried about this diet not having the correct balance of nutrients, vitamins and minerals, so I changed her diet to follow Dr. Becker’s real food recipes. The lumps are coming back. I believe this is because of the high glycemic foods in her recipes, namely the fruit. So I am going to modify the recipe to exclude all of the fruit except some blueberries and green apples (lg. sugar molecule fruit). Again I worry about how this change affects the nutrient balance. Should I just continue with her formula for vitamin supplement mix, or is there something more to add now that the fruit is eliminated?

[NectarMom]

I bought the Darwin’s $14.95 Turkey Raw only so I will give it a shot with my 4 rug rats and if they don’t eat it raw I can always cook it and they will eat it. We will see. This morning we had all solid healthy stools so it looks like the can food topper did not do any upsets. They all ate like champs too….YAY

[NectarMom]

Well I could only find Wellness Turkey 95% so I bought 2 cans. I only mixed up just a tiny bit to coat the regular Brothers Allergy formula and I have not seen my dogs eat like that in 6 months. Seriously my very very picky Shihtzu that will just about starve herself wanted more than what she was suppose to get. She is only 4lbs but shes probably a lb under weight IMO but my vet thinks shes a perfect weight. I just hope we don’t have no runny stools. I even added mercola probiotics in with it. I am shocked at how it made me feel seeing them beg for more, it made me feel like I have been starving them 🙁
I may try Darwins next but it is just so expensive. I tried raw instinct before ( The medalions and all 4 threw it up so I am hesitant to ship some in and have the same thing happen. HDM , The only concern I have with Brothers Allergy is that if there is indeed a detox period and I have been on this since Sept and my one with intestinal allergies has not shown any signs of problems except the last couple of weeks she has been chewing on her ankles and now there is a bald spot where he has never done this before even before switching to Brothers Allergy. All 4 have been shedding more than normal too and that started right after the switch but I assumed it was a part of the detox but I don’t know. My one chubby Chihuahua was 17.5lbs before starting Brothers and now she is 11lbs ( shes big boned) So I think her normal weight should be approx 10 lbs. We will see how the Wellness can turkey goes even though I am not a fan of Wellness.

[theBCnut]

I have a yeasty, allergy dog on Brother’s Complete Allergy, too. He started on it in the same timeframe as yours, back at the beginning of September. I’ve found he can’t handle grains at all, he can’t handle much starch, and he may be sensitive to some chicken, but not all. To give him a little variety, I feed some raw food(with Richard’s blessing). I get some from Darwin’s, beef, turkey, and duck. And I also order from Hare Today, rabbit, goat, mutton, things I know don’t bother him. Yesterday, I got my first order from My Pet Carnivore. I also get tripe and a few kinds of fish. The key is learning what proteins your dog is having issues with and staying away from them.

[Melissaandcrew]

Hi Nectarmom-

I have been trying to reply for two days, and finally its letting me at least post to this thread. My crew eats a variety of food without issues and none have become picky eaters as a result. If anything, they have become more excited about eating to the point of being obnoxious when the bowls come out(working on that!) However, I do agree that a sensitive stomach dog is a “beast unto itself” My dobergal has had issues on and off for 4 years-and only recently have we started getting it under control. The Abady granular worked well,. and now the Victor Ultra pro dry food. However, rotation for her is not the same as the rest of the crew. Her baseline food will stay the same-Victor Ultra Pro, but we will rotate her commercial raw, as well as her canned to offer her some variety.

My point being, not all rotation will be the same for each and every dog. By rotating out the topper portions, we will be able to offer her some variety in her diet. While it will not be as frequent or as extensive as the “normals”, something, imo, is better than nothing.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi donnaf –

I’m not sure if a change of food will help “wet dog” smell, but Iams is a pretty low quality food so changing would definitely be a good idea. As far as specific recommendations, I’m not sure where you shop, how much you’re willing to spend or what type(s) of food(s) you’re willing to feed (kibble, canned, dehydrated, raw, etc.) – so recommending a particular food would be difficult. The recommended 4 and 5 star rated foods would be a good place to start – you’ll find all different types of foods with all different price ranges so I’m sure you can find something to suit your needs. I’ve personally noticed that on less processed foods my dogs tend to smell better. Since I’ve switched to raw they have almost no odor on their fur or breath.

Now, just for clarification – I know you’re describing the smell as “wet dog,” but does it smell at all like moldy bread, cheese popcorn or fritos? Because that’s a whole new issue. Some dogs (like goldens) who have long hair can tend to be naturally stinky, but a dog with a moldy bread/frito smell may have a yeast infection which would require more specific dietary changes.

[InkedMarie]

I have an “allergy” prone dog….he eats part raw (pre made) and he gets turkey, beef and duck, since none of those proteins cause an issue

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi NectarMom –

I understand where feeding dogs with allergies can be difficult. What I would do is incorporate fresh versions of the foods that are already in their kibble – this way they can get some variety without running the risk of introducing a new food that throws their digestion off. So, if the kibble you’re feeding is turkey based you could buy some lean ground turkey and lightly fry it to mix in with the kibble or buy an all meat turkey canned food to mix in (stick with the all meat so you know you aren’t adding other potentially offending ingredients – Wellness, Newman’s Own and Wysong all sell 95% meat turkey-based canned foods). Once your dog’s condition has stabilized for awhile I’d work on incorporating new protein sources – one by one. Do it using fresh meat or all meat canned toppers and monitor the reaction. Then gradually work on introducing new foods once your dog’s digestive system has strengthened. I’m not sure how long you’ve been with the food you’re feeding now, but keep in mind that if a food is not working it’s just not working and it may be time to move on and try new protein sources and new types of food (often dogs do better on less processed foods – such as dehydrated, freeze-dried, raw or even a high quality canned food). Good luck!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi hassiman –

Your breeder could not be more incorrect. You can’t feed a dog “too much” protein – excess protein that is not used by the body is passively excreted though the urine causing no stress on the organs. Protein is very important for all dogs and especially growing puppies. I wouldn’t even feed a food with 21% protein to an adult dog, let alone a puppy. I always recommend picking a dry food with at least 30% protein and topping with high quality canned foods, raw foods or healthy “people” food (sardines, eggs, lean meat, etc.) to boost protein further. I have 3 bloodhounds – an 8 month old puppy, a 2 year old adult and a 7 year old senior – that all eat a raw diet with protein levels in the 45-55% range. It is now known that reducing protein levels does nothing to prevent renal failure and that protein levels should only be reduced in the late stages of renal failure. Orijen is a wonderful food (the best dry food available in my opinion) and I think you made a great choice that you should stick with regardless of your breeder’s (incorrect) beliefs. If you go to the “library” on Orijen’s website they have some wonderful articles about the importance of dietary protein and the myths surrounding high levels of dietary protein. I’d highly recommend you read these articles to ease your mind. The three I’d recommend you read are: “Myths of High Protein” which was written by Kenneth C. Bovee, DVM, MMedSc at Penn State’s veterinary school; “Effects of High Protein on Renal Function” by Delmar R. Finco, DVM, PhD for the Department of Physiology and Pharmacology at the University of Georgia’s school of veterinary medicine; “Pet Food Safety: Dietary Protein” by DP Laflamme, DVM, PhD, Dipl ACVN. To get to the articles from Orijen’s homepage click “FAQ” on the top menu, then click “Library” on the new top menu that appears. You may also want to refer your breeder to these articles before he/she provides any more unknowing puppy buyers with such misguided advice.

[Hound Dog Mom]

A balanced raw diet would be best, canned would be second best, dry would be worst (granted they all have the same rating). Pick something that’s convenient (some people don’t have the time to prepare or properly research a raw diet) and affordable (raw and canned foods are much more expensive than dry foods) to you. If you go with kibble for convenience and budget reasons (which is understandable), I’d recommend picking a 4 or 5 star kibble and, when possible, topping the kibble with a quality canned food and/or healthy fresh cooked or raw leftovers (lean meat, eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt, tinned sardines, low glycemic veggies, etc.).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi hwballew –

If you go to the review section of DFA and read the reviews for Purina and Iams you’ll see that they are all very low quality foods. Dry food is definitely more convenient, but a balanced home prepared food is the healthiest. By type – from worst to best: kibble < canned < dehydrated < commercially prepared fresh food < balanced home cooked < commercial raw < balanced homemade raw (granted the foods are rated the same). If you want to stick with kibble for convenience reasons, I'd recommend picking out 2 or 3 (or more) 4 or 5 star dry foods and rotating – top the dry food with a quality canned food, raw food or healthy "people" food (eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean cuts of meat, etc.). Canned foods, dehydrated foods and commercially prepared cooked and raw foods would be a step up from kibble and wouldn't require the time and knowledge that a home-prepared diet requires. These options are more costly than dry, but if cost isn't an issue they'd be a big improvement over dry food. If you do want to home prepare her meals, research first. It's not difficult to prepare a balance diet but it does take some research. There are many great books available with recipes formulated by veterinarians and nutritionists. Dogaware.com is probably the best online resource for homemade diets. The homemade food and raw food forms here have some useful information – my dogs' menus are posted on the suggested menu thread in the raw food forum.

For digestion problems I would supplement with a high quality probiotic supplement, enzymes and a little bit of plain canned pumpkin. Remember, because she's eaten lower quality foods for so long she may experience some digestive upset when you switch foods. These supplements will help a bit – make sure to do a gradual transition.

Is she on a joint supplement? I just posted some supplement recommendations to another poster on the "Mercola Joint Supplement vs. Others" thread under the "Dog Supplements" forum.

Good luck!

[konamisan]

Hi ALL,
I’m new to your forum and truly new some advice! My JRT is 6 yrs old. 2 1/2 years ago, she woke me up at 3am in the morning whining. I turned on the lights to see what was wrong. To my shock and amazement, you could see how red her body was through her white fur. Her body had small lumps and her face had literally changed and looked like a pug! She was scratching, runnining round the house, jumping in & out the tub it was totally frightening and horrible for her. I rushed her to the ER pet hospital. Where she was given a cortiszone injection and Benadryl. I, half bent over the metal cold table coddling her as the lumps, redness,scratching and whining subsided and a whopping bill. It was ok to take her home a 8am in the morning and told to give her the Benadryl 2 times a day for 7 days. 6 months after that episode, she started scratching her ear and body, shaking her head excessively, her shedding, I could have made another dog with the fur that was falling off her although she wan’t balding. So I took her to the vet and he too gave her meds and irrigated her ears. It wasn’t ear mites. She scartched her ear so bad that it bled and she had to wear an e collar in total about 4 months. This went on and off for another 6 months. Her vet never tested her for what could be the problem. He said it may be allergies. Maybe is not the answer I wanted to hear and my JRT & I were both miserable not to mention the bills which was exhausting my finances. I love my Xena and could not stand to see her suffer any more! So I started doing some on line research of what could be the problem? I learned that putting her on a “Raw Food Diet” might be the answer. So I set out to find which one would be helpful.
I stopped feeding her chicken, anything that had potatoes in it and any other grains & cut out the dry kibble. I started her on Steve’s. After about a month, I started seeing that the scratching had subsided the shedding had not. I kept her on it for another half month then introduced her to others like Bravo, Primal, Darwin’s Instinct & Stella and Chewy’s. I even tried shampoos with out success making sure there was no oatmeal in it. For sure that made her scratch & ear cleaning products. I also founf Dr. Karen Becker’s site and bought the “Probiotics, Krill Oil & Ubiquinol” The last 3 products I ran out of. When I can afford it, I’m thinking of purchasing Dr. Becker’s product the “Detox” bites.
Her coat is soft and shiny, but the scratching has come back, she is licking her paws now and her privates & the shedding continues which I serioulsy vaccum 3 times a week. Don’t wear black to my house 🙁 lol although not really funny. Please someone HELP!!!!!!!!!
Konamisan
Well here I am again and the scratching has crept up on us both.