[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue ~

I wish there was a holistic vet near me but the closest one is in Charlotte – 2 hours away, so I would definitely be interested in what yours says about the raw diet.

I think a lot of my hesitation comes from not knowing exactly where to get fresh raw food. I initially thought that if I went to the grocery store I would be feeding Mystery human grade food. But then you have to find organic, grass fed, etc., etc. Of course, there are no chicken backs in the meat department, though I did find turkey necks. My local store said they could order some tripe but when that came in it was white, processed tripe – no good.

I’m going to try to find a local butcher, but how I’ll ever know if I’m getting quality meats. Oh, genius that I am – I just realized I could get a whole chicken and cut it up myself. Cows, maybe not.

I like your idea of a washable rug and towel for RMB eating but right now I can’t keep Mystery on an 8’x6′ piece of linoleum. I’m going to try some “place” training on his crate tray to see if I can get him to stay in an area that he’s familiar with – except without the bars. I can add a towel to that but like our other Golden did, Mystery thinks a towel is for rolling around on.

I look forward to hearing about your visit with Dr. Frick.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Patty ~

You know, way back when, I remember giving our Sunset the DinOvite but stopped when we moved to Prague. I’d completely forgotten about that.

I did call Primal to talk with them about their food and was thaaaat close to placing an order until I looked at the Primal thread on dogfoodadvisor. What a catastrophe, wading through all that. In the end, I decided not to order any – a setback in my confidence.

I was looking at some the photos folks have posted here of their dogs eating RMB and I think it was HDM that had a pic of one of her dogs eating a whole quail. What? I want that! Minus the feathers of course. I did give Mystery a bone last week when it was warmer outside He went at it for over an hour while I enjoyed some quiet time over the waterfall and pond. Since I let him chomp away at apple tree branches, I wasn’t worried about the dirt too much.

I did try to give him a bone in his crate one day when temps were below freezing but he wouldn’t touch it. I opened the door of the crate and he brought the bone out with him. I tried to get him to stay on the 8’x6′ linoleum scrap but couldn’t keep him there. OCD kicked in, the bone came up and I set about steam mopping the crate, linoleum and wood floor followed by soap and water. I think I’ll try taking the tray out of the crate and start training Mystery to stay on it while eating.

I so appreciate that you shared the list of foods you’re feeding. With that, you’ve given me a better idea of what a diet should look like than anything I’ve come across so far. Thanks! I’d also read somewhere that balance doesn’t have to happen with every meal – it could happen over the course of days. That’s a little freeing. I’ll let you know when we get to our first raw day.

[Molzy]

Hello,

I recently contacted Honest Kitchen customer service to learn more about the Preference. I inquired about feeding bone-in meat with the Preference, and they claimed that Preference (and the two new base mixes they are coming out with this year) are fine to mix with meat and bone mixtures, and that the calcium/phosphorus ratio would be balanced as long as I used their ratio of Preference:Raw Meat.

Now, as a scientist and having some knowledge of mathematics, I am not sure how that can be true. How can it be a balanced diet with ground boneless meat AND balanced with meat/bone grinds?

Any thoughts?

Molly

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks Sharon, Patty and all research from HDM! It’s so good to have someone near the same point with feeding raw etc. It’s such a challenge! Can’t wait to check out the raw roundup internet conference. Thanks so much for sharing that. I too have used some frozen raw (Primal…and yes it’s VERY expensive) and will continue that when things are crazy here or I’m on vacation etc. but I really want to do the more natural whole raw most of the time.

I actually made the jump last week. Primarily because I found a specialist vet in our area that is holistic and does nutrition counseling for raw etc and figured I couldn’t do much harm in a week. I have an appointment with her tomorrow so I decided to start with some of HDMs raw diets from the beginning of the thread. (Wow!! A LOT of work!) But I’m convinced this vet can provide support because she helped so much with our GSD several years ago. He was such an awesome GSD but somewhere between 7 and 8 years old he started showing signs of DM (degenerative myelopathy). Our traditional vet gave us 6 months max with him but a friend recommended Dr. Ava Frick so we took Baron to see her. Thanks to Dr. Frick and stim therapy, acupuncture and natural supplements we were blessed to have a full 18 QUALITY months with our boy. So I checked with her and found that she does do nutrition counseling etc.

Both pups are going to see her tomorrow so we can discuss raw diets and the best way for them to get the best nutrition possible. All our dogs, other than Baron, died from some form of cancer affecting the digestive organs. Can’t help but feel that diet was the primary factor. So I’m determined to do anything in my power to provide these pups with quality food and life.

Have to say I’ve been overwhelmed a lot during the last week but I’m glad I started ahead of time. So many more questions to ask from a much more ‘real world’ vantage point! The younger pup is barely over 4 months but does pretty good with chicken backs. I will relax with it much more in the next 3 to 4 weeks as she gain her adult teeth. She just worries me with the way she attacks her food! The older male (all of 7 months) is more mellow in many ways and will lay on his rug with a turkey neck or chicken back and take time to enjoy it. But I have to say it’s a lot like watching my kids eat a meal I’ve prepared. Very fulfilling 🙂

BTW, we have all hardwood floors so I have struggled with feeding spots and found that the one that works best for me (us) is a large machine washable rug per dog covered with a large bath sheet (towel). The rug keeps the towel in place and most of the time I can just wash the towels and re-use. The rug beneath only needs an occasional wash.

I will post what I hear from Dr. Frick after the visit tomorrow. And I will also include some of the challenges I’ve hit over the last week along with any suggestions to help address them.

[theBCnut]

WOW, Sharon!! Way to go! Baby steps are fine and that conference sounds amazing.

When I started feeding raw, I started with what made it easiest for me, which at that time was DinOvite. That gave me time to do research even more and get comfortable with balancing diets. I now use commercial balanced raw(Darwin’s), commercial grinds that I balance(Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore), premixes(Dr Harvey’s Veg to Bowl, See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix), and homemade balances raw. This way I get convenience the days of the week that I need it, a really great selection of different proteins, RMBs a couple times a week, and all the other features I was looking for in a raw diet.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue’s Zoo ~

I am a nanobyte of information away from going raw. I spent two months researching the best kibble to buy for my Golden puppy and now I’ve spent another eight months researching the best way to feed my growing boy and have come to the conclusion that raw is the way to go. Unfortunately, I am also concerned about balancing not only calcium and phosphorus but everything else, protein, veggies, supplements.

Being at a similar point in the raw decision as you (everyone makes it out to be no big deal but it is intimidating nevertheless), the best I can offer is to share a few things I’ve learned along the way and hope it’s helpful.

Having had a Golden that required double-hip surgery before she was two, proper bone growth was a huge concern for me. If you’ve been to the LBP nutrition forum (/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/#post-33156), you’ve probably already read some of the suggestions that Hound Dog Mom posted at the beginning of the thread. If you haven’t, do – It would’ve saved me a lot of research time if I’d found the forum ten months ago. Although I waded through the technical jargon in many of the articles, I found the article by Baker most useful and objective. Now that Mystery is 10 months old, I’m allowing more calcium in his diet than Baker’s recommended .8%. I’ve changed his kibble to one with a higher calcium content (from Innova to Orijen), and have started giving him an occasional RMB and raw egg (yeah, puppy steps).

I can’t speak to whether a puppy should eat raw bones until their adult teeth are in except to say that when I asked my breeder about food choices, I was told he starts giving his puppies chicken backs at six months.

As far as balanced nutrition goes, I’ve considered “balanced” frozen raw brands but they really are expensive and there’s much debate as to whether they’re safe. I’ve read so much conflicting, contradictory and even argumentative information that I have to take a few days off research just to clear my head. Sometimes I wonder if I’ll ever get my Mystery off kibble.

That said, I did find an Internet conference (what will they think of next), on feeding raw that is hosted by Dogs Naturally Magazine. You can find more information here: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-roundup/. It isn’t until the end of the month but I’ve already registered and am hopeful to glean that last nanobyte of information so that Mystery will be eating only raw in March.

[Mom2Cavs]

Shasta220….my old vet (who I will never recommend to anyone) used Hills, Royal Canin, and Purina prescription diets in his clinics. When asked once what I was feeding my Cavalier, I responded Wellness…they had never heard of it!!! WHAT!? I should’ve left them right then and there but it took a little longer, to my regret. Anyway, we’re with a holistic vet now and I say, “what took so long?!” (maybe that they’re an hour from my house, but it’s been worth it!). My holistic vet carries in his clinic, and feeds to his dogs, Nature’s Variety kibble/canned/treats/premade raw and Real Food premade raw. He also uses Standard Process religiously and also Vetri-Science. He may have the odd bag of Hills or something but I’ve only seen this once. I’m thinking a patient must’ve insisted on it?! There are actually 2 vets in the practice (man and woman) and I see them both. They recommend titer testing, offer acupuncture and chiropractic services and are versed in Chinese herbal medicines. I’m never made to feel like I don’t know anything (which happened with my old vet…he had no bedside manner whatsoever!). Sometimes they even ask for my opinion on a food! I highly respect them and they are both just awesome!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Mom2Cavs.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Mom2Cavs.

[Shasta220]

Okay, I will have to be honest – I have only one time fed my dog what the vet suggested. I am NEVER doing it again! Cassy is a sensitive gal, and was doing fairly well on Dog Lovers Gold. I asked the vet if he recommended it, he shook his head and said “only food I recommend will be Hills.”

I don’t understand why vets mislead SO many people, who already are overwhelmed by nutrition but want the best, into getting this pure garbage! It’s quite frustrating, because I’d like to have a personal opinion on a good food, based on my dog’s qualities, but still all the vet will suggest is Hills…

Are there actually vets out there who agree that Hills is junk, or will I always be stuck researching out my own kibble? It doesn’t seem to be /just/ my vet either, everyone in this area rec Hills.

At least they were a little more helpful on my cat’s raw diet. I think all they said is to give her organ meat – try to feed her a whole small bird whenever possible.

[Lablubber]

Hi it’s me again..

I have almost completely finished transitioning over from the food my breeder had my pup on to Blue Chicken and Rice Large Breed Puppy Food with nothing but good results. I have taken a little over a month and 4 days to accomplish that in and his stool are solid and no stomach issues…. Right now I am at 80 % transition 80% BLue/20% Purina Puppy Chow Lg. Breed Food. Right now I am also adding a teaspoon of coconut oil, a teaspoon of ground flaxseed and some fish oil, about 1000mg.

I am not using any toppers except at night for his supper meal and that is canned Blue Puupy Food about a 1/5th to 1/4th of a can. And his coat is shiny and he seems to be doing very well on it…

But for me where my problem arises is from me reading and listening to all of you guys….I almost feel like if I am not alternating out a bunch of different foods and using different kinds of toppers and adding numerous supplements to his food, then it makes me feel like I am shortchanging my dog???

And please believe me….. I have not spared any expense on my part that I know of concerning him and I really do not want to do the raw diet because I have had too many people I know who have had their dogs, get serious bacterial infections from it and some have even died from sluffing off their intestinal lining and dying of anemia before they could be saved by IV feeding and a harsh round of antibiotics.

So for me….This particular dog is just way too valuable for me to ever chance that and believe me I am not here to make any enemies by saying that but I just want you know my logic behind what I am doing with him so far. But then I also have to say this as well and something that I have found out in life myself and some wise words of wisdom and that is this…. Just because someone does something different or feels differently about another idea or approach to your particular way of doing things….Doesn’t neccessarily make them wrong….It just makes them different…! There i said it…My sermon for the day….

So anyway I took painstakingly long with my Labrador Retriever pup after listening to all of you guys and even forsaking what my vet said and changed over to a food that I read about and researched over for many hours and also a food that I had access to, to buy very readily, that I didn’t have to worry about ever running out of even where some of the online food stood the chance of having weather related delays in shipping, that it would not be running. And so I chose a food that I have seen proven to do well with my friend’s large breed dogs. And then I made a just a very few additions to the food, just to make me feel better.

I did as all of you said ion here and I cut out the milk replacer that I had always feed my pups for the first six months of their lives and longer is I saw the need to do so and I did thatimmediately. So anyway…He appears to be doing extremely well. Although he had to have several surgeries yesterday because he had a slight hernia that had to be repaired from a overzealous Lab mother licking him over and over all the time and never letting his navel ever truly heal up right. The he also had a dewclaw removed that either regrew or was missed by the breeder’s vet originally and he also had a place on his leg that had been cut while he was young at the breeder’s kennel that did not grow back right and so my vet did a little cosmetic repair there as well while he was out at no charge and she also micro-chipped him as well while he was out due to the fact that she hates to stick such a big needles in pups at that age if she can help it and so she prefers to have them out at the time of insertion and so she did that procedure as well..

So needless to say, my little fellow was exceptionally glad to see me when he I cam to pick him up….. He came home though like the walking wounded with a front leg dewclaw removed, a back leg, scar tissue repair, a hernia repair and a microchip inserted just at his shoulders along with an antibotic shot just above it, wearing an Elizabethen (sp.) collar to boot, so he was not a very happy puppy last night…. And today he is wired to a tee at work with me here today, needless to say.

So now for the advice part part….. Is the extra stuff I add to his food….The tsp. of coconut oil, the fish oil (which will be changed over to Krill oil when it gets here) and a teaspoon of ground flaxseed meal added to his food twice a day… Does all of that sound good to the ones in the know on here to be adding to his food or is that an over-kill???

Then on the medical part or at least the vaccination part of his regime…. He has had 3 series of shots so far… And I plan on having one more done just to be on the safe side, although my vet. says the 3 completes his regime. Plus he still has his Rabies shot coming up as well…. So does that suffice for his puppy shots being complete or is there anything more I need to be checking into???

I have read quite a few vets who did not reccomend them getting coronavirus or leptospirosis shots anymore(As well as my own vet feels the same way). But for me…Jess will be competing in AKC and UKC Hunter Retriever Trials and therefore he will be around a whole lot of other dogs in close proximity, so I just want to make sure that I have all of my bases covered with him as far as shots, intranasal and any other immunizations that he might need.

I am going to look into get his Lyme and Botedella vaccinations as well, but what is you guys thoughts on a working retriever and his vaccination requirements???

So that is about it today and I know i write very long but I figure if I don’t know, I never will without asking… So thank you for your patience…

Lablubber

[kcarter137]

I have a 1 1/2 year old 13 lbs chihuahua mix. She has a long story and I need help so here it is. She has been plagued with various ailments since we acquired her. After a couple months of raw feet and hairless patches on her body I took her to see an allergist/dermatologist. We did a food elimination diet and determined she was severely allergic to chicken, rice, and wheat; somewhat allergic to eggs, dairy, and fish in higher quantities. She has been eating cooked pork, 5-10% cooked liver, 15-20% pureed sweet potatoes with skin on, 15-20% raw beef, and every other day she gets half a sardine or canned salmon. She eats no bone but I supplement with calcium. She takes a glucosamine/chondroitin/msn supplement because she has bad knees. We recently started her on a wild salmon oil because my vet said she needed it also. He also told me that she’s not eating a balanced diet so she also needs a multivitamin. So I ordered one from b-naturals. I don’t know what else I can do for balance her diet out. My other half says we cannot feed her raw or bones. Help, please and thanks in advance!!

[Shasta220]

Maddy was originally on Cat Chow, so yeah- hair balls galore there!

She’s seeming to do much better on the new food. I haven’t seen a hairball in a while (well, I don’t really see them. My bare toes feel them in the middle of the night!)

It sounds like fiber and “lubricants” are fairly easy to add into a diet without getting a special extra-spendy-but-full-o’-fillers food.

I’m a little concerned about her weight right now. She’s been checked out totally healthy, and acts completely normal, but she feels pretty scrawny. I was hoping adding the canned was going to help (she hasn’t really ever had anything but dry), but she will eat no more than 1tbsp daily, even though I try to offer it to her twice a day. The worst? I honestly haven’t seen her eat the dry in a while – she only eats the canned now. I’m still keeping my fingers crossed that she eats dry when I’m not looking, since they have free choice dry.

I tried mixing dry with canned, but she refused. Picky picky girl! Are there any quality cat foods that have an extra calorie boost maybe? She doesn’t like raw meat at all, otherwise I’d try her on that.

[jenmac]

Hi, my 9 year old neutered male Maltese Bosco recently lost his vision. He was diagnosed with Sudden Acquired Retinal Degenerative Syndrome a couple of days ago. In September he went from 9 lbs to 12 lbs and since that time he has gone to 14 lbs. His blood work, done in October was all normal, including a thyroid panel. Before the weight gain he was on Acana and then I switched him to Acana Light in October but this made little difference. My vet switched him to Science Diet Metabolic food for the last 5 weeks or so and he has gained about 0.5 lbs. One symptom of SARDS is Cushing’s disease and this is what is probably going on with him. Some of his Cushing’s symptoms such as the excessive thirst and urination have abated so I am hopeful that the Cushing’s aspect of his disease is passing (which can happen with SARDS). Does anyone have any advice to offer for dogs with this disease? What food should little Bosco be eating? I’ve read articles that suggest some vision can be regained by switching to a raw diet. My vet has little experience with this disease. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!Hi, my 9 year old neutered male Maltese Bosco recently lost his vision. He was diagnosed with Sudden Acquired Retinal Degenerative Syndrome a couple of days ago. In September he went from 9 lbs to 12 lbs and since that time he has gone to 14 lbs and has stayed there despite being on Science Diet Metabolic food for the last 5 weeks or so. His blood work, done in October was all normal, including a thyroid panel. Before the weight gain he was on Acana and then I switched him to Acana Light in October but this made little difference. One symptom of SARDS is Cushing’s.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Ferrari4204,

I’m not too far from you in NW Indiana. I feed a variety of foods including commercial raw and I also came across a local product that I’ve found very interesting and gaining some popularity locally. I haven’t tried it myself yet and need to do a little bit more research into the product. Problem is, they don’t have a website and basically do all of their business locally, through word of mouth. When I was wanting more information about their products, I called the business and left a voice mail. The owner promptly returned my call, but unfortunately I missed his and haven’t made an effort to connect with him since. I was impressed how quickly he called me back and his responsiveness to my call.

My local product is called J.J. Fuds. I remember when I was a kid and JJ Fuds was a local butcher shop with a master sausage maker at the helm. Who knew there was such a thing as a master sausage maker, but there is. From what I understand, the family has over 100 years of sausage makers and their fine German craftsmanship has been passed down for generations. Kinda cool ~ artisan products are special.

My local operation is still owned by the same family. They prepare their raw dog foods in a USDA inspected facility and all of their raw meat and bones are USDA inspected product as well.

So, small local business, no advertising and no shipping. I have found a couple of websites that’ll ship the product, but am guessing they must also be local and their prices are higher plus the added shipping cost makes it pretty expensive. The company seems to be fine with their local niche market.

It’s very affordable and half the price of other commercial raw diets. The manufacturer delivers the product himself to some local pet food stores and groomers straight from their processing facility.

So, I haven’t tried my local product yet; but, now that you reminded me, I’m putting it back on my to-do list. : )

Here’s a sample ingredient list from JJ Fuds Tender Beef Chunks Dinner:

Ingredients:
Beef, Beef organ meat (Heart, Liver, Kidney, Tripe), Fresh Whole Eggs, carrots, Celery, Sweet potato, Flax Seed, Cranberries, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Suppliment, Vitamin B-12 Suppliment, Niacin, Iron Sulfate, Vitamin A, Acetate, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Monoitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Biotin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Sodium Selenite

[Ferrari4204]

I have been raw feeding my dog for two years, Natures Instinct patties and I was recently told about a store here in Chicago named Honden and Katten where they make their own raw diet formulas in the back of their pet store which is set up like a butcher shop. I decided to try their food out because it was less than half the price of what I was previously paying. My dog, pit bull mix, enjoys the food and seems to be doing well with it. My question is if anyone has run into a small shop like this making raw food. They did go through the process of following Aafco guidelines and it’s nice to see where the food is made and the ingredients I’m just wondering if their food is as good as the instinct I was feeding before. Like most here I will do anything for my dogs and firmly believe in raw feeding, switching food is a big deal for me and although I have never posted here I enjoy the form and was hoping to get some feedback.

[Susan]

Does anyone know any cooked low carb recipes for dogs with Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth….Im too scared to try raw just yet….

[Shasta220]

@Suzie, I’m sure there’s some food out there…possibly a lamb formula? It would probably be very expensive and difficult to find. I’d suggest starting your dog on a raw diet: http://www.dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html

Even a raw diet will probably be very tricky to omit those proteins, so maybe talk to your vet about any suggestions?

[Melissaandcrew]

I am not sure what you have access to in Australia, but yes, Tylan-tylosin tartrate used for farm animals. My vet first prescribed it for the dogs and then I just ordered a larger size bottle from a supply company. In farm animals, its OTC. I use the powder.

We did the metronidazole route with our two dogs first, and it worked, but metron should not be a long term medication-Tylan powder CAN be used longer term. We used it with every meal for 30 days, then I weaned them off of it. It worked liked a charm, but did take a lot of trial and error in getting the correct diets. First, I can tell you that YES YES YES YES to the lower fiber.

Secondly, they do NOT do well with diet changes. We feed the two with issues Victor Ultra pro, Abady granular, and raw. While we on occasion have a flare up, its been quite a while for any major issues. When one does flare up, its typically because they got something they should not have-either bunny poo or a treat, or kibble that the others eat. When this happens, we will use the tylan for a 3-4 day period and then all is well. For the record, one has not needed Tylan in several years, and the other(Maya) has a flare up perhaps two-three times a year now versus every few months.

I also found that white rice(as in doing aa boiled rice/chicken diet) to stop the runs is a big NO NO.

[kaylee1989]

Hi, I am now trying to stay away from bones that are commericalized for dogs from pet stores, since they seem to be worse for dogs. I am really interested in feeding raw bones. I gave my 1 year old dachshund (14 lbs) his first raw bone yesterday and he loved it. It was a femur bone (that is all the store had that I went to) I want to give bones just as a nice treat and something to keep him occupied. I am not planning on switching to a raw food diet. I currently give him Taste of The Wild dog kibble (1/4 cup) 2 times a day, I also give a couple treats or piece of meat and carrots daily. I was wondering if someone could tell me what bones are good just for fun treats and also how many times a week I should be giving them. Also, do I need to lessen up on the amount of food I give him the day I give him a bone or maybe just no treats that day? Honestly, he could probably stand to lose a couple pounds, so I definitely don’t want to add any more weight. (He seems to be obsessed with food and tries in every which way to get as much as he can with or without my permission) (and yes I have seen a vet about it, they said he is a fine weight but just shouldn’t gain any more) Anyways, any help would be great. I tried finding my own answers, but couldn’t seem to pinpoint exactly what to do. Thanks. 🙂

[theBCnut]

First of all, did you read the first few pages of this thread? Did you check out the links? The idea that protein causes problems was bad science and ignorance, so don’t worry about that.
Here is Hound Dog Mom’s latest list of foods that have the appropriate amount of calcium for large breed dogs.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
You have to sign up to view it, but it’s very worthwhile. Take the list with you to the pet boutiques around where you live and see what is available. DO NOT marry any one food, rotate foods. Do a search on the review side on diet rotation to learn more.

Keep your puppy thin, not just not fat, but thin. Less weight is less stress on joints.

Find a joint supplement with hyaluronic acid in it. That’s what the body needs to make repairs to joints. And consider feeding him a raw turkey neck once or twice a week, they naturally have good stuff for joints in them, since them have a lot of cartilage in them.

If you have bare floors, consider using throw or area rugs at least until he is grown. They think slip and falls can be a big factor in joint damage for puppies. And finally, no stairs for as long as possible. When he has to do stairs, make sure he does them at a walk.

[Bracha]

Hello,
I am new to this site (it was recommended by our pet shop owner). We live in Australia and thus spend a bit of time outdoors; bush and beach – lucky us. I have a very healthy German Shepard (as endorsed by my vet and every man that sees her walking the street – she has a large fan club, small town). She is de-sexed, large frame, straight back, 41Kg, 4 year 6 mnth. She has been with me since a puppy, 9 weeks. I initially fed her two different brands, but from about 2 months old she has been fed Dry Holistic Large Breed puppy than transitioned over to Holistic adult large breed. She thrives on it. Currently we are trying the Holistic Grain free large breed food and so far (2 weeks) all is well; her stools are a great shape, smell good and regular. Personally this is the only way to tell if your dog is responding to their feed in a positive way, check the pool daily!
I appreciate everyone has a budget, but am in total agreement with other members 4+ stars is the way to go.
I am currently researching the Raw diet option and will consider this diet. But the dry food is convenient. It is supplemented with 100 grams, human grade beef mince. I would be interested to hear members view on this combination of beef with dry turkey based feed; do they think it is self defeating? Enjoy reading the comments from like minded dedicated dog owners. Thanks

[Shasta220]

It more than likely is related to food, possibly environment. TotW is okay food, but I usually have found better quality food at the same price, if not, cheaper. Not always is grain-free food /the/ best, dogs often have intolerances to potatoes, other fruits/veggies, chicken, and occasionally even fish. I’d try some of the above suggestions for food, and maybe try adding plenty of fish oil to his diet (assuming he has no problems w fish…There are many vegetarian oils that work almost as well. Coconut and flax are two of my favorites for the dogs, they also get raw eggs regularly).

I wouldn’t recommend using the borax/peroxide, that might make him even worse, as Borax often causes “burning” to sensitive skin. If his problem is mange, and I doubt it is, the vet would sponge him down all over w medicine.

If there’s any possibility, I’d try doing the BARF diet (bones and raw food) for a while, that way you would know /exactly/ what’s going into his system, and you could customize it to give him optimal results! It’s a bit tricky and overwhelming to start the BARF diet, but the raw diet forums on here would probably get you to a great head start.
The raw diet might not nessicarily work though – I know a sensitive pooch who would get all red and inflamed whenever he was on raw.

I’m really sorry you have to deal with these problems, I’ve gone through skin issues a few times (it was with my lab, Otitis is the name.), it is definitely one of my LEAST favorite health issues to deal with – hands down!

Hopefully you’ll figure out the problem and get him back in good shape soon!

[staxgrl]

Hey gang! I’ve been a reader for several months, but I’m just now ready to start making up my boys’ diets from scratch. I have 2 st. bernard/pyrenees mixes who are about 95 lbs each and a mutt who is about 45lbs. Big boys are 16 months-ish, little guy is around 9 months. Right now the big ones eat about 1600 calories a day and the little one eats around 750. I am happy with everyone’s weight, everybody has a nice tummy tuck and I can feel ribs under my fingers 🙂
Here are my planned menus, I am going to try and rotate in pork hearts and pork necks as well since those are readily available in bulk from my butcher. For now, I am out of room in my garage freezer 🙂 That said, I so appreciate/value your feedback on this. I know how much time and energy it takes to read through all the opinions/information on homemade raw diets, and your expertise is honestly priceless. I am so grateful for this forum. Here goes:

Hagrid/Ludo (95lb dogs)
1 large chicken quarter, bone-in (~1lb)
½ lb (8oz) gizzards
½ lb (8oz) heart
1oz liver
1oz kidney
2 eggs
¼ cup greek yogurt
2 cubes veggie blend
2 crushed multivitamins (one a day)
2 fish oil capsules (1200mg each)
200IU vitamin E (or 400IU every other day)

Debian (45lb dog)
1 small chicken quarter/drumstick (~1/2 lb)
¼ lb gizzards (4oz)
¼ lb heart (4oz)
½ oz liver
½ oz kidney
1 egg
1/8 cup greek yogurt
1 cube veggie blend
1 crushed multivitamin (one a day)
1 fish oil capsule (1200mg)
100IU vitamin E (or 200IU every other day)

veggie blend (steamed/blended and divided into ice cube trays):
2 bunches kale
1/2 lb carrots
1 apple
1 banana
1 sweet potato
4oz alfalfa sprouts

The menu is for a total day, it would be split up into 2 meals. I know that’s a kind of high percentage of heart, so I wanted to know if there were any opinions on that? And what about the veggie blend? This is a really simple recipe so I’m adding multivitamins to hopefully take care of any deficiencies. Thanks!

[Shasta220]

Hm. That’ll be rather tricky to figure out, for sure! I’ll be sure to do my homework now, I guess… LOL! Sighs, if only I had the money/resources/freezer space to do a raw diet for the pooches. At least he’s not a horse allergic to grain…(and I do know of one!)

[Shasta220]

I totally feel you. Our lab gets almost the same problem. Her condition is called Otitis (basically inflammation/infections caused by environment and/or food). It was always manageable…we had to wash her ears weekly, and just deal with her horrible odor. I always figured it was due to her cheap-quality food (poor girl, she had Dog Chow, Pedigree, and even store-brand foods!)… So I finally saved up and bought a bag of NutriSource senior, hoping it’d help. What did it do? It made EVERYTHING worse! She would gnaw at herself so much…about 50% of her skin would be raw bald spots that she chewed at. I tried hot-spot spray, but obviously it didn’t work at all.

I don’t remember what exactly the vet ended up giving us… A couple different pills, some ear treatment, and then a shampoo. Now Cassy is a brand new dog, and she’s off of NutriSource for GOOD (I was so disappointed to have such a high-rated food react so poorly with her. I honestly have no idea what the ingredients in it were that made her irritated…especially considering she did /better/ on the cheap stuff!).

Anyway…that’s my story of a similar pooch… I’d definitely agree w the others to talk to your vet about a blood test to see if it’s an internal problem. Try to list ingredients of all her foods…maybe conduct an experiment: try to get her off /all/ grains and chicken, then if she improves, try to bring either chicken or some grains back into her diet. It might help you see if she reacts to specific ingredients.

Once you’ve found the problem and gotten proper treatment for it, I’d advise some skin-and-coat supplements (if you’re on a budget, you can buy bags of flax and grind it. Excellent source of Omegas) to help out her fur when it tries coming back in.

I’m really sorry your poor pooch has to go through this. It’s really no fun for ANYONE :/

[Lablubber]

Hi KMS

Every vet I have been to with all my dogs recommends Royal Canin Feed for dogs. And I have to be straight up honest with you too…..

This whole dog food issue is driving me absolutely nuts but I study it like a beast and I read and read and read and this is what I have concluded in all that I have read, been advised to do, and from what I have seen first hand in all of….

The Raw diet, although I know that it can be really great and it does seem like the most natural thing to do for your dog. But this is also from my studies of it, know to be a fact……

First the whole reason you are reading this anyway because you like myself, want only the best for your dog and so you want to be absolutely sure your dog or pup is getting everything it needs and requires in it’s diet… And so yes….If you use absolute extreme caution in prep and storage and you get all of your ingredients from a for sure, organic farm and ranch. And if you want to be absolutely sure that your supplementation is correct that you are going to use. the only for sure way that you can do that is by having bloodwork ran on your dog and having a nutritional spectro analysis ran to know the correct amounts of each vitamin and nutrient is being met in his diet and then no one can argue that the Raw diet is a great way to go.

But… the big But word….. The downside to the Raw diet has been, that due to prep work and non organic ingredients being used and this has happen to people who are OCD about it…But it has led to some very serious bacteia infections in people’s dogs and has even caused death in dogs due to the bacteria present in raw food. This bacteria has caused dog’s intestines to actually sluff off the inner lining and pass blood so bad that if they made it through the IV treatment and antibiotics regime then they were fine or otherwise dwindled down and they died.

So the downfall to raw is obviously, the chance you take in that happing, the expense of the spectro analysis, not to mention food cost involved…

Then the super high tech foods that everyone reccomends… The stuff like Blue, Innova, Dr. whatever and all that list on here… They all have high cost, but at least because they were processed in a high temp. situation…The biggest majority of all bacteria has been removed from it. So that is not a worry…. But then you read and know people who have fed that feed and some dogs have bleeding problems associated with it because of the high protien involved in it… Or whatever causes it….. It is not a rarity either….

Then a big push by folks for this food is they say that is like the food that animals in the wild eat and so let me say this as a country boy to as well as being an avid predator hunter, I have never in my life, seen wolves nor coyotes…..Ever eating carrots, blueberries, potatoes, kelp, etc. So in reality then….What is a person to think???? Not like a wild animals diet at all….

Then you come to the more old tried and true….The per say….Puppy Chows and High Pros and the Iams and Eukanubas etc. and yet more and more people are having their precious dogs come down with all different kinds of cancers and tumors. And for me being an avid reader of medical stuff in humans and from all I have read about Monsanto and the genetically mutated corn and the serious ill effects and cancer causing issues they have had in humans because of it….Then it also makes me extremely leery of any pet product containing any corn or corn by product….But yet, even myself I had to learn from folks on here of the ill effects of non-regulated calcium uptake in puppies, especially large breeds and yet I have never raised a lab pup that I didn’t put milk replacer or powdered milk in their food when I feed them…

So needless to say…..It is a very scary world out there for all of us as pet owners…. But one thing I have learned about some vets is…. They like doctors will treat a dog, until you say this is enough and I have been there some times before myself. So one thing I have learned and also saved many a dog with even those who had been left to die of parvo is if you are truly serious about your dog as much as most of us are on here. I will share my country boy diet that has saved quite a few dogs, exhibiting the very same symptoms your dogs is showing…

Go to a local rancher/farmer who raises ducks or chickens near you and and one who lets them fend for them selves for feed and buy them. Then butcher the ducks and boil them down to pieces and I mean everything….the livers and gizzrds and hearts and then add cooked organic brown rice or even quinoa and feed your dog exclusively on that for at least several weeks or even a month after all signs of bleeding ceases to exist in his stool…. As well as, only allow him or her to drink only alkaline water. If you have to buy it….I know Fiji water is akaline but it is also fairly expensive.

Then I would also add 3 capsules of tumeric or curcumin which is the same thing, to his food daily everday and continue that from there on cutting back to one to two capsules a day after he is healed. You can get this at any health food store or pharmacy…

If your dog were showing any signs of weight loss or delapidation in any ways whatsoever…. As I did in the ones that had parvo, I would also recommend adding acidophilus to his food as well as Goat colostrum and I can tell you, your dog’s bleeding should stop within a 4 to 5 days and he will be well on his way to recovery although I would recommend keeping him on the chicken and brown rice regime for at least a month and then begin to transition over to what ever food you want him to be on from then on, always watching closely for any recurrance of bllod in the stool.

Myself I would use the Goat Colostrum and Acidophilus anyway if money permitted regardless of weight loss or not…. But anyway if you couldand if you really wanted to recharge his system as well…. I would keep him on the acidophilus, tumeric and Goat colostrum for at least several months afterwards and then I would also start adding high flora yogurt to his feed when the bleeding stops…

I am not an expert by any means, but I am just a country boy who loves animals and refuses to watch any animal die if I can stop it. I will be honest…. I have lost faith in the medical field when it comes to humans and am quickly losing for the veterinarian field as well due to drug manufacturers and feed manufacturers getting in some of their pockets….

Yiour are well blessed if you have a vet who is in it for all of the right reasons… Very few and very far between… The love of money is the root of all evil and yes it has creeped down into the Vet world as well.

[kms]

Hi all! Just wanted to post an update on Augie and really need advice again. My vet has done all he can do to get rid of the Campylobactor bacteria. First, he put Augie on Marbofloxcin – which I opposed after reading about adverse effects on large breed puppies. After 4 days with no change in stool, we switched to Clavamox. Did 1 round. The stool is the same (1st part is formed, 2nd part runny). So vet sent us to an Internal Medicine specialist. Specialist did exam and sent bloodwork to Texas A&M for a CBC panel, profile and GI Panel. All bloodwork normal – TLI and Folate were fine and no pancreatic inflammation. Specialist thinks this is likely Inflammatory Bowel Disease. She suggested doing a biopsy of the large and small intestine (either a Biopsy via surgery or Biopsy via Endoscope). I asked if we could try elimination or hypoallergenic diet to see if the IBD is due to diet and she said “since he’s not losing weight, I’d be ok with that – but wouldn’t know anything for couple months”. If we go that route, she recommends Royal Canin HP (hydrolyzed protein; hypoallergenic, soy based protein). I asked about treating IBD with RAW or at least with a more premium limited ingredient food and she had no experience/opinion there.

I worry about him being only 7 mo old and having to go through all this. Can pups really have true IBD this young? My gut is telling me to change the diet, but I could end up spending 2-3 more months on something that doesn’t pan out for him. What do you think? Has anyone ever fed Royal Canin HP for GI issues? It’s only 19% protein (soy) and rice is the first ingredient. I thought grains were bad for dogs with IBD, colitus, etc. It does, however, have ok calcium levels (2.5 mg/1,000 kcal) and it’s approved for all life stages.

Thanks for any advice or insight….

[GizmoMom]

rhonda, look into PMR (Prey Model Raw)
http://preymodelraw.com/

Or home cooked meal.
http://www.dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html

[JASTECH]

Jesse82, the food change is your best choice. When a dog is healthy inside the skin & coat follows which mites don’t like. Sense your dog is of a mixed breed called Bully Breed (not American Pit Bull Terrier) they have skin, joint, tumor and other issues more then pure bred APBT.
So start with the food, try feeding a BARF diet staying away from the grains and post your results as what raw meats and how much you feed your dog. The specs on your dog will help determine how much to feed, energy level etc.

[Jackie B]

Dr. Mike plans to come out with a Cat Food Advisor someday. Cats are easier than dogs though. They are obligate carnivores. The more meat in the diet, the better for them. And if they will eat wet food, that is preferable to dry (especially raw wet food but cooked should be OK. People say raw preserves more nutrients and I’m sure it does but cats are picky.). You should at least supplement dry cat food with the wet food several times a week to help prevent kidney issues and other problems down the line.

My friend who is a cat expert feeds Authority wet food from PetSmart. She fosters cats so she has to pick a budget friendly but still good food. If I had a cat I would likely feed a frozen raw product.

[Sue’s Zoo]

First, thank you so much HDM for taking time to respond and Patty for helping out. I guess I did realize the c:p ratio was still important but was hoping it might be somewhat automatic when feeding raw. And from your response it seems like that is the case IF I get the balance correct between organ, muscle/tissue, and bone. And there are several ways to accomplish that–grinds, RMBs, Tripe mixes, etc. I guess at this point I just want the simplest way to get started, which ideally would be someone saying: feed this, then this, etc. 🙂 while I read and re-read all your info and additional recommended resources to educate myself and become more confident in creating my own meals. I did see some of your info under raw feeding giving your dogs various diets over a period of time. I’m going to look at those more closely because I think it’s what I need to kickstart the program. I just wasn’t sure if those contained all the necessary nutrition for large breed PUPPIES (as well as adult dogs). So thanks again for your response.

I think I may start with MPC as I look for less expensive routes for the future. Considering what I pay for just doing half Primal (chicken, beef, rabbit and venison) plus top end kibble/canned (rotating Wellness CORE Puppy/Earthborn Coastal Catch/Halo Surf n Turf, plus a daily can of FROMM Gold rotating proteins), with these pups, I can’t imagine it’s going to be much more…I hope. And I’m going to get a freezer (checking CL today)

And lastly, for now, you mentioned books. I have the Ancestral Diet book. I’ve noticed Dr. Becker’s is recommended in several places so I plan to get it. Are you familiar with Raw Dog Food by Carina Beth MacDonald? Any others you could recommend to help me jump in quickly?

So happy to have found this site. I’m sure I’ll have many more questions over the next few months. Learning so much from you and some others. And I’m a skeptic so I don’t trust everything I read on the internet. But just by reading your posts it’s obvious you’ve done the research and know what you’re talking about.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sue’s Zoo –

Yes, the calcium to phosphorus ratio is still important when feeding a homemade raw diet. When feeding a “grind” such as those sold by My Pet Carnivore there’s really no way of knowing the “exact” C:P ratio although it is assumed that it’s balanced. However, as we know, the concern with large breed puppies is not only that the C:P ratio is balanced but also that it remains relatively low. My suggestion (and what I did with my pups) would be to mix in about 25% green tripe with any grind that you feed (MPC does have a great grind called “Ground Beef Tripe Supermix” which is 50% green tripe/40% muscle meat, bone, organ/10% trachea and gullet which would be a good choice). Green tripe has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1:1 but the levels of each mineral are relatively low (only about 0.3%) this way you can “lower” the overall ratio without the risk of throwing it off balance.

It’s also perfectly fine to start young pups on RMBs (it’s easiest to start small – chicken necks, etc.) but I would recommend feeding some muscle meat at each RMB meal. RMBs do have a balanced C:P ratio but it is very high (usually close to that upper 2:1 limit) so I would say feed about half as much muscle meat as you do RMB. So, for example, if you feed 8 oz. of chicken necks also feed 4 oz. of muscle meat.

As far as ordering – you’re going to be going through A LOT of meat with two large dogs. I currently have two female bloodhounds and we go through about 150 lbs. of meat per month. When I had my large male (who unfortunately passed last summer) we were going through closer to 250 lbs. per month. My suggestion – especially if you’re on a budget – would be to try and locate a wholesaler. I get my meat delivered right to my house by a wholesaler that sells to grocery stores and restaurants. They butcher all their own meat so they do have items like chicken backs, gizzard, hearts, organ meat, etc. and will deliver to kennels that order at least 300 lbs. at a time. You will likely have to place a large order if you go this route but if you invest in some freezers it’s worth it in the long run – I pay <$1 per pound for everything I get. The only meat I order outside of my wholesaler is green tripe and I get this from Hare Today – with the shipping it’s the most expensive thing my dogs get. You can often find good deals on used freezers on craig’s list or in the free trader.

Do you know how to create a balanced diet from scratch? There are some great books out there and also some pre-mixes if you’re not sure about what you’re doing.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks Patty. I noticed they were offering special pricing of all 4 books for $25C so I just decided to do it. All the information on this site (DFA) is amazing but for me it’s difficult to digest because it’s in so many bits and pieces. I need it consolidated in one place, at least to get started. I’m sure I’ll be back here when I have specific questions.

So far the first several pages have been interesting and useful as they’re explaining why a raw diet is so beneficial. Very detailed info regarding digestion, anatomy, benefits of raw but written so a lay-person can understand.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by Sue's Zoo.

[theBCnut]

You have to balance a raw diet. And giant breed dogs have special calcium requirements so their diet needs to be balanced extra carefully. But yes, they can get total nutrition from a good raw diet.

[Rabbinator]

I’ve read a lot about raw diets, kibble diets, wet diets, rotation diets, homemade and store-bought foods. I work in the pet industry and while nobody has actually asked me yet (raw is not really big in this area apparently), I have yet to find a definitive answer to my question.

Many things that I have read said not to, under any circumstances, rotate raw and kibble. Others say that it’s actually great to rotate raw and kibble, but not to feed both simultaneously (which makes sense re: digestion). I have found a lot of opinions, but no science to back any of it up (other than the simultaneous feeding). I understand protein rotation as well as wet/dry combination/rotation, but I’m at a loss for kibble/raw.

Does anyone have any evidence for/against a kibble/raw rotation?

And another fun question: If feeding raw and kibble simultaneously is unhealthy, why do I carry Nature’s Variety Instinct that is normal kibble with freeze-dried raw coating? Does the fact that it’s freeze-dried raw factor in at all, or is it a gimmick? (NV website about Raw Boost: http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/RawBoost/dog/lamb )

[Shawna]

Hi Dorenda,

Took a few tries but I was able to log on.. Thanks Patty for the email heads up :)..

Vets often suggest low protein for renal disease when it really isn’t necessary. There are studies even that show dogs that have protein lowered to drastically too early in the disease have increased mortality. There’s some fantastic information on the topic on nutritionist Mary Straus’ website (see quote below). My dog has had kidney disease since birth and has been on high protein raw her whole life (45 to 54%) — she’ll be eight years old the end of June 2014.

“Based on research done in the last ten years (see s a Low Protein Diet Necessary or Desirable?), that the only time it is necessary to feed a low protein diet is when your dog is uremic, which generally means BUN is over 80 mg/dL (equivalent to 28.6 mmol/L), creatinine is over 4.0 mg/dL (equivalent to 354 µmol/L), and the dog is showing symptoms such as vomiting, nausea,inappetence, ulcers and lethargy, which are caused by the build-up of nitrogen in the blood. Even then, feeding low protein will not extend life, but it will help the dog feel better. Subcutaneous fluids can also help at this time (and before).” http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html

If your pup is uremic then consider K/D canned with added toppers to entice eating. Toppers like lightly cooked egg whites or canned green tripe are good options. Both are low in phosphorus but higher in protein. To counter the extra protein you can give probiotics and a certain type of prebiotic to induce “nitrogen trapping”. Nitrogen trapping utilizes the bacteria in the colon to help clean BUN from the blood. I use Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotic (human product) and Fiber 35 Sprinkle Fiber (also human product). If symptoms are bad enough that there is a need to keep protein really low try adding high quality fats — organic butter or ghee, coconut oil etc.

I would avoid kibble at ALL COST!!! Kibble of any kind including K/D.

Vet Dr. Royal created a raw kidney disease diet for Darwins. It can be found on their website – link below. The food is REALLY high in protein so again not an option if your pup is uremic. Here’s some info. The actual diet is on the site as well. Your vet will have to contact them to confirm your pup is a good candidate for the diet. http://www.darwinspet.com/kidney-health/

Mary Straus, link above, has diet recommendations on her site – she does include kibbles but kibbles are dehydrating and can cause issues. The protein in kibbles is also poorer quality than any other form and due to this creates more BUN then other diets with the same amount and kind of protein. Nutritionist Lew Olson also has some recipes on her website http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/kidney-diet/

Supplements that might be helpful — the one that I will NEVER run out of with my KD girl is Standard Process Canine Renal Support. Turmeric, food grade activated charcoal and burdock root are some to look at. I’d also recommend giving a digestive enzyme no matter what you feed. Mineral waters higher in calcium while being lower in sodium have demonstrated some benefit. They didn’t identify the brand in the research paper but I believe they may have used Evian. I’ve also read that feeding smaller meals multiple times per day is beneficial.

Hope something here is helpful!! Sure hope you can get your pup feeling better!!!

Shawna

[AT]

New here…We are bringing an 8 week old Labrador puppy home next Saturday and I am trying to narrow in on food options. I have spent the last few days reading every single post in this thread and it has been quite an education – thank you to all of you who spend time here to help educate others!
My questions:
1. Our puppy will be coming home on Purina Pro Plan Focus Puppy Large Breed Formula and I want to transition him to something better as soon as possible. Would a few days after he is home and settled in be too soon to start a transition, provided he is not showing any signs of GI distress?
2. If price/cost is not a constraint, what off the shelf product would you feed a lab puppy? I am not up to a homemade diet at this point (might consider this in the future, but don’t trust myself to get up to speed in one week and to get it right during this crucial growth period). Most of the discussions I’ve read here involve rotating quality dry foods (with added toppers/supplements). Would this be the best way to start since our puppy will be coming home on a dry food?
It has also been stated that raw, canned or reconstituted is even better. I can see the raw recommendations in the document linked to several times throughout this thread. What do you consider to be the best of these brands? Would transitioning directly to raw be ok for our puppy; or should we go first to canned, then to raw?
Can anyone offer recommendations for the “best of the best” of canned foods for a large breed puppy? I figure I can call companies to calculate exact calcium/kcal, but could anyone offer the best brands/formulas to start my efforts? The fives stars listed in the library are:
By Nature 95% Meat (Canned)
Castor and Pollux Natural Ultramix (Canned)
Dogswell Dog Food (Canned)
EVO Dog Food (Canned)
Fromm Gold Nutritionals (Canned)
Go! Fit and Free (Canned)
Great Life Essentials (Canned)
Kirkland Cuts in Gravy (Canned)
Life’s Abundance (Canned)
Merrick Dog Food (Canned)
Merrick Grain Free Dog Food (Canned)
Nature’s Variety Instinct (Canned)
Pet-Tao Dog Food (Canned)
Pure Balance Dog Food (Canned)
Tiki Dog Food (Canned)
Wellness Core Dog Food (Canned)
Wellness Stews (Canned)
Weruva Kobe (Canned)
Weruva Kurobuta (Canned)
ZiwiPeak Daily Dog Cuisine (Canned)

Thank you so much for any advice!
AT

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by AT.

[theBCnut]

I’m not good at guessing bone content on something that is meat and bone. HDM once told me to give the meaty bone plus half again its weight in boneless meat. So, if your pork rib with meat on it is 2 oz, it would be enough calcium for another ounce of meat, but ribs have more bone than, say, a chicken thigh, so… It’s supposed to be 10-15% bone in the diet, I think you would have to be the one to eyeball that.

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Everyone!
I have been working on a new menu for Dawson, trying to get more bones and more balance into his diet. So here it goes!
Am- 1 ounce Ziwipeak air dried lamb cuisine

Pm- Monday, Wednesday, Saturday Nights
– 2 oz pork ribs.
– .5 oz tripe patty. I have had no luck finding tripe here… so it may be canned 🙁 But I may be able to get some soon as the calves are getting butchered this month.

Pm- Thursday Night
-He would get 2 oz boneless meat patty (beef, pork, poultry whatever is on sale, could also be meat chunks,preferably organic.)
-Sardine, quarter of a tin.
-a cage free egg, no shell

Pm- Tuesday, Friday, Sunday Nights
– 2.5 oz boneless meat patty.
Note: 1.75 oz of liver and other organ blended into all patties for the week.

Supplements:
• 1/8 tsp pre/probiotics, daily
• 400 IU vitamin e capsule, weekly
• Sprouted Chia/Flax meal for manganese may use oysters occasionally, Thursday pm meal
• ¼ tsp cod liver oil once during the week, ½ cup organic keifir (mixed in with patties), and one cage free egg per pound of meat for vitamin D requirements, sardines will finish his vitamin D requirements
• ½ tsp coconut oil, daily
• Raw Glandular supplement, every other day
• ½ tsp homemade green super food supplement, daily

In the patties I would add pureed veggies and fruit but I didnt really count it on my calculations, it would be about a tsp per day… All kinds of veggies and fruit nothing particular, or toxic, lol!

My only question is, is the bone balancing the calcium in the boneless meat, or do I have to supplement additional calcium. And anything too little, too excessive, I gauged this at a weight of about 15 lbs.

I also have another with two meals of pork ribs and also two meals of chicken thighs. But it`s kinda is the same.

I was also thinking of getting this cookbook, especially if this recipe isnt balanced, lol!
http://www.completeandbalanced.com/
Its available in Canada at Dawsons vet, Here is a sample recipe:
http://www.completeandbalanced.com/samplerecipepage.html
Some recipes can be fed raw. Any thoughts, or concerns.

[anotheremily]

Well…I have been at the same thing as Molzy for the past almost 2 yrs…

I have a jack russell beagle mix. He is 5.5 yrs old. He was over weight , not anymore considering the circumstances….He went from 17 lbs when we got him to 27.5 lbs at highest and last yr this time was at 17, today he is at 21. Gulping has been going on so long I can’t remember when it started. He has had blood tests, xrays, barium xray, several meds for worming, He had an upper endoscopy…all leads us to nothing. So he was put on prilosec last Spetember (’13) and metoclopromide 3 xs a day. Ok…so he was being examined for all of these…worms, mega esophagus, pyloric stenosis, reverse sneezing, bloat, acid reflux, collapsed trachea…post nasal drip, and all the stuff everyone else has said here…He has none of that. He used to eat kibble, Canadae. Our other dogs eat that. We switched everyone last spring, summer to Taste of the Wild. Mind you all along I am continuing treating for all the other ailments…so his kibble would get crushed by me and wetted into a paste and a kong goes in his bowl to slow him down. He was on Purina EN for some time and that was when he lost weight. I made rice and fish and carrots and sweet potatoes and rice and veggies and dog food from our local butcher shop that is all hormone antibiotic free…then since he was doing so good we eased into taste of the wild…well that gets expensive with 4 dogs and feeding everyone seperate isn’t an option. So we went back to Canadae maybe a month or two ago…we are on our 3rd bag of it I think…And January 8th and January 10th my husband and I got NO sleep what so ever. Last night he gulped and filled with gas so bad I thought I was going to have to rush him to the pet er…No, he threw up, just like he did on the 8th right around 5 am. Last night it was barf at 4 then back to bed to sleep and he was all gurgly and snoring and I just wanted 1 hour of sleep…I moved him. Shouldn’t have done that, it sparked another episode. This is all so in such a small nutshell what I am writing, but today I took him to another local regualr vet office for just a 3rd pair of eyes to see what she thought. She thinks it’s digestive, perhaps a food allergy, something similar to celiac…Told me whe would show my video to the other vets in the practice and get back to me. Suggested I take him to Cornell, the Veterinary School. He could see more specialists there than at the local office with 1 specialist since she felt what was wrong with my dog is so rare. Rare until you research it and find all these people having the same problem…WHY is it only at night? He has little spats in the day sometimes but most of the action is at night. Why do none of have any REAL answers? What is in the kibble that we feed our dogs? I did some research a while back and I could go find the link and post them if you are interested but you have probably already seen them, about kibble and how people had this issue during the major dogfood recalls….a few years back…That spawned a TON of gulping and posts everywhere. I do not think this is partial seizures…The more i read and the more I talk to vets, I think it’s the food. I cannot feed him a raw diet, I can feed him partially cooked and plain food like I have in the past, I think the limited ingredient food is good for a short time. In the mean time I am going to have to come up with a fund raising campaign to take him to Cornell, because I have spent over $2000 as of the end of 2013 on this issue. I LOVE him dearly but I cannot spend anymore or charge anymore. I am getting nowhere, and I am so tired, literally. I don’t know what else to do…He is getting a new probiotic tonight and for food we are doing quinoa and salmon for a while. He will get NO chicken for a long time. Back to the butcher shop food after the salmon. So…I also got him some tramidole so he can sleep tonight and so can we…I will hang around here, it seems like a good place to bump ideas off of each other…I am interested in hearing more about the chinese medicine and will go back and read that posting more in depth tonight. It’s good to know we are not alone I guess. I am wondering is anyone has had ultrasounds or had their dog eat under fluoroscopy…those were suggested to me today along with a nutritionist and all these are available at the Vet College, for more than I can pay I am sure…lol

Looking forward to staying in touch!
PS my dog’s name is Doug…(love that boy)

[sharfie]

I have switched my 2 Golden Retrievers to a raw diet. I am rotating between protein sources and brands of frozen raw. I use Primal, Stella and Chewy’s, and Stewarts. I have used the calculators on the web sites as a guide for the amount of food to feed. However, I am not getting it right because both dogs have gained weight. Do calories count? I notice there can be a big difference in the calories per ounce between brand and proteins. Both dogs are within the normal range of activity. They are both currently getting a little less than a pound of food a day (about 14 ounces). So, I guess the question is, do I watch calories or amount?

[raylene5]

Thanks so much for the help ladies!

[ScottsMomma]

We recently adopted a terrier mix from our local Humane Society. He is my first dog-knew nothing about food so we just picked up the standard Kibbles & Bits for him which he ate just fine. Noticed on his second day with us, how much he was scratching; neck area, face, biting along his legs & paws. Took him in for a visit, was told he had dry skin, to try fish oil, also started reading up on dog food and picked up Earth’s Pride Grain free Duck & Vegetable. He is eating that just fine, no issues with messy stool (does have some gas) not bringing anything up. Took him back today since he has also been shaking his head along with the scratching, doc looked in his ears, said they were clear-just looked irritated. Said it is most likely allergies-which is what I suspect-but allergies to what? We live in Maryland so pollen is not an issue right now-possibly dust? Or food-how do you tell? His fur is nice & soft, but skin is dry and he has some dandruff. No major sneezing or coughing. I’m at a loss as to what to do. Doc gave me a med. called Prednistabs and a drop for his ears. I don’t know weather to try a different food with less ingredients, try Raw (does a raw diet help with both food & inhalant allergies)

[DogFoodie]

Hi spotcdb,

It sounds like your dog is still having what may very well be a food intolerance. And, it’s definitely not a good idea to have your dog on Ketoconazole three days per week indefinitely. If I were you, I’d take a look at a grain free food that is lower in carbs than what you’re feeding now and that doesn’t contain any white potato – which Annamaet does. I’d even consider feeding a raw diet.

It takes time, but the body can heal and recover from systemic yeast.

[theBCnut]

She has enough different issues that I don’t know if anyone here can help you. The diabetes needs a low starch diet. The panceatitis needs a low fat diet. IBD often needs a low fiber, no grains diet. I would recommend consulting with a veterinary nutritionist for a homemade, possibly homemade raw, diet, because it sound to me like she needs a diet based on low fat meat and the necessary vitamins/mineral and not much else.

[theBCnut]

You can feed up to 20% of your dogs meals unbalanced without worrying about nutrient deficiencies. What this means is feed 4 meals of balanced commercial raw then one meal of meaty bones. You can use chicken or turkey necks, ribs from smaller animals, a chicken leg or wing, basically anything that has smaller whole bones so the dog has to crunch up the bones. Make sure the first few times you do this that they eat in front of you so if somebody tries to swallow something too large whole, you can intervene.

[Mom2Cavs]

I currently don’t feed commercial raw, but I have and will again I’m sure. First off, dry kibble does not help keep dogs teeth clean. In fact, if they chew it at all (most tend to swallow it whole) it merely sticks to their teeth, much like when we eat crackers or cookies…way more than canned or raw. Actually, the commercial raw would do a better job at keeping teeth clean because it has a more natural component and more readily available enzymes. I would definitely add raw, meaty bones as a component of your dog’s diet. I’m sure others who feed this way will be more able to direct you in how to do this. You’re on the right track with your pup, congratulations with the new addition!

[Mom2Cavs]

Pattyvaughn has some good suggestions. I also have Cavaliers and small dogs are notorious for having bad teeth (not just Cavs) so it can be a constant problem, even shortly after dentals. I have had dentals given to mine off and on and their teeth stay good for only awhile. I do brush their teeth, but admit it’s not as often as I should. They are not good chewers, either, which makes it doubly hard to keep teeth clean :(. As for the breath issue. I have found that when mine eat something they are intolerant to or get into something they shouldn’t their breath smells bad. When anal glands are acting up their breath smells bad. Giving probiotics and enzymes helps tremendously. Also, feeding a high quality food and treats (I’ve actually cut them out 99% of their diet) has helped mine. Currently, I’m feeding Fromm 4Star Salmon a la Veg. Now I do also top their kibble with quality canned food (tblsp.) and mix in their prob/enz. When one of my Cavs had a poop eating problem (enzymes solved this, too, for her) her breath was atrocious! So in a nut shell it could be from:

1. the food they eat.
2. anal gland problems (they’re full).
3. eating things they shouldn’t (like poop or bugs, etc).
4. having a cracked tooth or something wrong with gums, teeth, etc.
5. needing a dental (no lie, some dogs need dentals more often, especially small dogs).

First, I would have your vet inspect your dogs mouth to see if anything is stuck in there, or a cracked tooth, etc. Your vet will probably recommend another dental, which isn’t always feasible at the time. I personally do them either every year or every other year. I don’t like to put my oldies under the anesthesia that often.
Giving raw bones can help keep teeth scrubbed clean. Brushing their teeth can help a lot. Even trying some of the dental sprays and gels, like Mercola’s, or Tropiclean can’t hurt either. Good luck to you, I know the pains of owning small dogs with bad teeth. I hope this helps some.

[raylene5]

We will be getting a Miniature Schnauzer puppy next month and I had a question about how to incorporate heartier texture into a commercial raw diet. I’m pretty certain I will be feeding Primal Pronto nuggets…what can I do to ensure good dental health with a diet full of such soft food?

Do I give him raw meaty bones instead of one of the daily meals or do I just give a recreational bone once a week? What size and what kind for a puppy?

Thanks so much for the help! (Just to be clear, I’ve done a lot of research into the various raw diets and I will definitely not be preparing my own raw or feeding prey model 🙂 )

[IMillerman]

My little 13 year old Lhas Apso has always had allergies. I had him on raw and he improved to not having and reverse sneezing episodes and good coat. Due to a few things like dental surgery and travel I put him on Steve’s powder mix and lightly cooked chicken and turkey. Did not do as well over time on this. A pet sitter over fed him and gave him way too much goat milk and he had a major episode. Stress is also an issue for this dog and IBS. It’s been hard to get him back to normal since.
Vet put him on a cooked 1/3 chicken, 1/3 rice, 1/3 cottage cheese. He liked it but had bad stools and upset tummy – likely dairy maybe? Now he has him on RC Vet Rabbit and Potato. He seems to just go through this food with lots of poop and bad stools. It’s been over 2 weeks now. We just added 1 TSP pysillium for fiber, a probiotic as well as Standard Process Okra Pepsin 2 x’s daily. Vet wants to scope in a week if no improvement. My dog has never had Rabbit so Vet wanted a novel protein but I’m not so sure his condition is just diet related – maybe his system does not agree with this food.
Any thouights or suggestion greatly appreciated.

[mellowmutt]

I got Amiga at 8 weeks old, back on June 1st. Her breeder recommended Nutro LBP Lamb & Rice, so that’s what I fed her at first. I wasn’t happy with her gas or her stools, so I did some research and decided to mix Orijen LBP and NV Prairie LBP with the Nutro. Did some more research and discovered that I was feeding her way too much calcium. So I added two other foods to the mix in mid-July, NV Instinct Rabbit and CC Open Sky, had to set up a spreadsheet to keep CA, CA:K, calories & protein in order. I did the calculations based on the max-CA values, not averages or the tested values of a specific batch, to be on the safe side.

Ran out of this mix a month ago, at 8 months apparently she can regulate her CA herself, so I quit worrying about it. Now I have her on a mix of Orijen Regional Red, NV Instinct Rabbit, and NV Prairie Venison & Barley. It seems reasonable to me to feed her a red-meat diet in winter, and switch to a fish-and-fowl diet come summer (ancestral-wolf feeding pattern). In a few months the mix will be Orijen Six Fish, NV Instinct Rabbit LID, and NV Prairie Duck & Oatmeal. Both supplemented with the occasional topper of Orijen Tundra freeze-dried. LID Rabbit doesn’t have turkey, which is in the Duck & Oatmeal formula, so Turkey’s on the menu all year, too. Protein content of these blends is 33%.

The Prairie kibble’s mixed in to lower my cost from $3/lb to $2.75/lb, which adds up with a large breed. Rabbit is in the mix year-round, because I read some research (I’ll post the links if I find them again) about how wild/feral canines/felines primarily eat bunnies. The missing “meat group” in the prepared foods is rodent, so I’ll also occasionally feed raw beaver meat as a topper. I’d like to add a third brand into the mix instead of the Prairie, unfortunately I haven’t found anything that doesn’t have either the “wrong” grains or is loaded with potato (a no-no for malamutes as white potato is known to trigger bloat in this breed), or is too expensive to serve the purpose.

I set up another spreadsheet for amino acids and did yet more research; I believe she’s getting the full spectrum in sufficient quantities from all the different protein sources (also gets Orijen Tundra freeze-dried treats, used these to teach her to swim ‘cuz they float without getting soggy) such that she doesn’t need the glucosamine/chondroitin/taurine supplements typically found in large-breed-specific formulas — her body ought to be able to produce as much of these as she needs provided the proper building blocks (amino acids & cartilage). Her stools, on the “winter blend” anyway, are firm and dry, and not too voluminous or frequent and she seems to be thriving; my Vet is pleased with her physical condition and says her growth rate is right on target.

Many thanks to this site and all who contribute for helping me navigate the dog-food waters, it’s enough to make one’s head explode, but it’s also nice to have so many quality options in dry kibble. It’s been several years since I’ve had a dog (Amiga’s my 4th), Iams and even Purina just aren’t what they once were so I didn’t even consider those despite two of my dogs living to 15 (Keeshond on Eukanuba and Golden Retriever on Hi-Pro). My last malamute got Iams Lamb & Rice, but was shot (with cause) by a sheep rancher at 3 1/2 back in ’94 so I have no long-term report, there.

What got me to not trust dogfood manufacturers and do this research, leading me here, was how horrific the first month was feeding Amiga just the Nutro. Glossy, semi-soft, mucousy stools (if not diarrhea) and lotsa smelly farts — just like my friends’ dogs being fed Nutro. Enzymes, pre- and pro- biotics didn’t help, de-worming only cleared up the worms. No surprise given the ridiculously-high Zinc content in Nutro formulas, apparently since Mars bought them out — these are symptoms of Zinc toxicity, not poor digestive-tract health; no band-aid for that. Wish I’d figured that out sooner, and the calcium-level thing.

If I had the puppy-food phase to do over again, I wouldn’t touch Nutro with a 10-foot pole. These problems lessened when blended with the other kibbles, and disappeared entirely (OK, occasional fart still, probably the grains) this month after discontinuing the Nutro. I would do the four-kibble mix again, going with just the Rabbit and Duck would be lower calcium, but would also lack the glucosamine/chondroitin/taurine supplements the two LBP kibbles contain, as well as the cartilage and broad spectrum of amino acids which make these supplements unnecessary.

I did rush her to the vet after-hours back in September for bloat, but I didn’t alter her diet because of it. Sometimes she eats stuff that isn’t “on the menu” so to speak, mostly I blame my kitties because they love hunting and killing — just not eating their kills, which they leave for the alley cats. And for Amiga, sometimes she finds these before I do and accounts for occasional fur/feathers in her stools (Amiga’s also killed a mourning dove, robin, grackle, and a magpie). At least they’ve learned not to bring them in the house! I’m following all the best-practice guidelines for avoiding bloat, so hopefully this was a one-time thing, scary for both of us…