[Susan]

Hi Joanne,
Im not against grain pet foods, I believe you should rotate with 1 good grain free dry kibble then rotate with a grain kibble or I like the dry kibbles that will have a few good grains instead of Legumes & have sweet potatoes, veggies & fruits a variety….

Whenever Patch eats a grain kibble that has Barley, Oats & Brown Rice he does big smelly sloppy yellow poos, but when he eats a grain kibble that has White Rice & Sorghum he does nice firm poo’s so he must be sensitive to Barley, Oats & the Brown rice is probably too high in fiber put them all together & we have bad poo’s, so it may not be 1 ingredient it might be when they are all together?…. alot of these grain formula’s have replaced their corn with peas & barley. I prefered corn instead of the peas & barley, corn firms up poos, most intestinal health vet diets use corn in their vet diets for this reason..

Chicken: I don’t think your dog is sensitive to chicken, it could have another ingredient or it may have been the Fish or the Duck but read what were the common ingredients besides meat proteins?
My Patch does excellent on Chicken with his IBD, BUT when he eats cooked or raw chicken his paws go red within 20mins of eating the cooked or raw chicken when I did a elimination diet BUT when he eats a kibble that has chicken in it he doesnt get his red paws sometimes or not as bad?? so I’d say its cause the chicken in a kibble gets broken down while being cooked at such high temperatures & Patch isnt reactionthe the chicken as bad aswhen he eats fresh raw or cooked chicken?..
I asked a Hills Vet Nutritionist, why does Hill’s wet & dry formula’s all have chicken in them?, she said, it’s cause chicken is the easiest meat to digest, this is probably why Patch does well with his IBD…

Have a look at “Farmina” grain formula’s.. they look very good for a dry kibble..
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop-dog/dog-food/11-n&d-ancestral-grain-canine.html

Be careful the Purina Pro Plan Salmon & Rice formula was tested again & did really bad again, it keeps coming back high in Heavy Metals, By-Product Contamines – Poor & Ingredient Quality – Poor…
If your dog does well Purina, the last test were just done, the testing gets done every 3 months…But certain Brands formula’s are staying on the bad heavy metals & contaminates list & are not moving when they are re tested, so these pet food companies are still using the same bad suppliers.
These Purina Formula’s did really well got 5 stars
Purina Pro Plan Bright Mind Adult Turkey & Rice Formula Dry Dog Food
Purina One Smart Blend, Lamb & Rice, Healthy Weight, True Instinct Turkey and Venison, Chicken and Rice & Small Bites Beef & Rice Formula’s are cleaner kibbles also Purina Beyond Superfood Blend Salmon, Egg and Pumpkin Recipe Dry Dog Food, Purina Beyond Simply 9 White Meat Chicken and Whole Barley Recipe Dry Dog Food…

[joanne l]

I have a unrelated question. I am not sure if my dog can eat chicken, I boil chicken for him and he is fine, but I noticed chicken in dry food causes digestive issues. I have him on pro plan lamb and rice and he is doing fine. I am surprised b/c there is chicken by products and he is okay with that. I usually rotate his diet but I haven’t did it in awhile. I guess since he is going better I hate to switch. Should I try another brand chicken recipe? By the way the chicken recipes I have tried in the past also contained duck or turkey or fish. I am wondering if I should try something with just chicken as the protein instead of a mixture?

[Ryan K]

Thank you for your responses. I took him in to the vet last night for an exam. She wanted to run more x-rays and suggested doing an endoscopy. Both of which I could not afford at this time. I am treating him with sucralfate, a low fat dry dog food they gave me and cerenia. I know these things most likely not solve his issue but I am trying them for now. I suggested the H. Pylori to her and she did mention the possibility of it being seizures but the diagnostics are too expensive right now for me to get for him. They would not treat either of those without positive testing. She mentioned that testing for H. Pylori was via scoping but I thought there was a blood test for that that would be less expensive? I am curious about this because I actually contracted H. Pylori shortly after I rescued him from the rescue group I found him at in 2009. I had to go through months and months of treatments to cure it. I always wondered how I contracted that. I am wondering if maybe he has always been carrying it and has passed it on to me? That would be a fairly easy situation to treat if he reacts to the drugs fast. I had it hard because I am allergic to so many antibiotics and proton pump inhibitors. I am really hoping that I can manage his symptoms and get them under control with a lower fat food for now and the meds they gave me. This is so frustrating because I really just do not have the financial access to figure this out at the moment. I don’t even have any Care Credit left right now. I just actually wound up using the last of mine on a root canal. Losing my job didn’t help this situation either.

Surrendering him is something I don’t think I could ever do. If I knew who he was going to…possibly…but, just dropping him off at an SPCA is not something I could live with. It would destroy me.

I wish I had family I could borrow from for diagnostics but I don’t. I am pretty much alone with these costs and unable to afford them. I can get his meds and his food and can give him love and attention but the multiple thousand dollar diagnostics are just not feasible right now. I hope this does not make me a horrible pet owner. 🙁

[Susan]

Hi Ryan.
Yes see vet & ask for Omeprazole (Prilosec) ant acid blocker & trial him for 14 dyas & see if he gets better, also Diet change, it’s making his acid reflux worse..
My Patchy was doing the same eating grass & anything in the yard to get the acid out of mouth & throat.. You could try an ant acid medication that isnt as strong as Omeprazole like Famotidine (Pepcid) take 30mins before meals twice a day or Ranitidine (Zantac) worked better with Patch, the Pepcid is an older ant acid drug…
I also was giving Patch Liquid Mylanta when he was waking up 3-4am having a licking attack then wanting to go outside & eat everything in the back yard, another thing that helps is a piece of white bread made into toast & give the dry toast cut in pieces, toast helps stop the gulping & licking…
I have found when Patch is eating a High Kcals kibbles over 370Kcals per cup the acid starts, also when he eats a high Carb kibble & high fat over 15% fat, he has to stay around 10-14%-fat & protein around 28-35% Look at the Large Breed diets as they are made to reduce digestive problems in large breed dogs….
I know you have a small dog same as Patch he’s an English Staffy but the large breed formula’s have the lower Kcals, lower fat & higher protein & are high in Glucosamine & Chondroitin, for their joints, Patch is doing well on Wellness Core Large Breed formula I buy the 6kg bag or look a Senior formula, they have lower fat, higher protein but I dont know if the Kcals are under 360per cup? you have a better range in America the higher the Kcals the more dense the dry kibble so harder to digest…..

STOP the wet can food ASAP this happened with my Patch at Xmas he got that bad the acid went into his wind pipe & burnt his esophagus & wind pipe I had endoscope + biopsies done the vet also said his Sphincter flap isnt closing properly from stomach to espohagus & the stomach acid is washing back up the wet can food made everything worse… now he only gets a little bit of wet food but its a low fat vet diet the fat is 1.7% & no gravy wet can foods the vet food has to be loaf style, the Hills I/d Digestive Care Low Fat Loaf or boil some chicken breast & bpil some sweet potatoes & you can freeze is small meals
Poor Bugger he’s the same age as Patch, its awful watching them suffer & you feel helpless the Omeprazole is excellent everything stopped & he got better until I moved last December & I started buying wet can foods that were 4% fat,
When convert 4-5% fat in a wet food to dry matter (Kibble fat) 4-5% fat is around 20 25% fat, Patch was already on Omeprazole 20mg had been on Omeprazole nilly 2 yrs but it wasn’t working as well no more or the wet can food I was feeding made everything worse, now Patch takes another PPI, Pantoprazole 20mg & the Pantoprazole seems to help the reflux & works better then the Omeprazole, vets in Australia only give Ompraozole 20mg so Patches vet writes me scripts & I buy from the cheap chemist $5.99 for 30 tablets, I also take Pantoprazole for my GORD but a higher dose….

I do not think he need to see a Neurologist like Anon ALWAYS recommends, first try the and acid blocker Omeprazole or Pantoprazole 10-20mg once a day in morning around the same time & stop feeding ant wet can/sachet food & look for another dry food that agrees with him better, avoid small breed formula’s as some are higher in Kcals & fat%..

[Reese B]

Hi guys,
This will be a long post.
So, with the new “grain free scare” I’ve been thinking about trying raw or freeze dried raw. I was looking at primal products but couldn’t figure out why the nutrition profiles were so different from their raw vs. freeze dried. On the website they state that their freeze dried is exactly the same as their raw except the moisture is removed. So I wrote them to find out more. Below is my e-mail exchange so far….

ME:
I’m new to raw and looking for a lower fat option. I’m on the fence between raw frozen and freeze dried and was looking over the products on your website to see if any fit the bill of what I was looking for.
I noticed your frozen raw rabbit formula was low fat at 17% protein and 5% fat.
I then looked at the freeze dry formula and was surprised to see the protein is listed at 50% and the the fat is 28%.
When I did the math to convert the frozen formula to a dry matter basis I got that the protein should be 58% and the fat should be 17%

17 / 29 x 100 = 58% for protein

5 / 29 x 100 = 17% for fat

Did I do the math wrong? I don’t understand why the protein and fat is so different on for your frozen vs freeze dried rabbit formula if the ingredient are the same.
If you could explain, that would be greatly appreciated.

PRIMAL’S REPLY:
Thank you for contacting us. I can see how the math can get confusing. The nutritional values on our site are listed on an as-fed basis. Of course you’ll see that when you compare the guaranteed analysis of our freeze-dried formula to our raw frozen formula, the protein and fat levels in the freeze-dried varieties appear to be elevated at first glance. However, the key to understanding this difference lies in the moisture content. Since the moisture has been removed in the freeze-dried product, this causes the protein and fat levels to increase. For best feeding results, we recommend rehydrating with water. The weight of a freeze-dried nugget weighs less than that of a raw nugget because moisture has been removed. Nutritionally, a raw nugget is the same as a freeze-dried nugget when rehydrated or consumed with water.

ME:
I understand that the values are listed on as fed basis…but my question is regarding why the math doesn’t add up from your raw to freeze dried formula. If you re-read my original email you’ll see I’ve done the math to convert you raw formula to a dry formula and the values don’t match what is listed on the freeze-dried product.
If you convert the raw rabbit recipe into a dry matter basis, the protein should be 58% and the fat should be 17%. However that’s not what’s listed on the product. So I’m wondering how did you determine the values for the freeze dried formula?

(EDIT: I didn’t get a reply to the above email, so I wrote to them again.)

ME:
I haven’t heard back from anyone regarding this. Maybe I’m not asking my question in a way that makes sense. Let me try to explain…
I understand that freeze dried food will always have higher nutritional values because the moisture is removed making it a higher concentration, however, the values on your freeze dried product don’t make sense compared to your raw frozen product from a mathematical stand point.
For example, your frozen raw rabbit has a 17% protein and 5% fat. If I convert these to dry matter based on the formula on your blog (https://primalpetfoods.com/blogs/news/guaranteed-analysis-what-does-it-mean) it should be 58% for protein and 17% for fat.
% guarantee ÷ dry matter x 100
17 ÷ 29 x 100 = 58% for protein
5 ÷ 29 x 100 = 17% for fat
However, on your freeze dried rabbit nuggets the protein is listed as 53% and the fat is listed as 28%.
There is no way the fat in the freeze dried product should be that high if it’s the same ingredients/formula as the frozen raw. I’ve noticed several other of your freeze dried formula’s are listing fat at a much higher percentage than it should be.
Please explain to me how you are getting the values for your freeze dried products.

PRIMAL:
I apologize for my delay in response but greatly appreciate your patience! Please see below for assistance with your conversion:
1. The Protein/Fat content printed on the packaging is usually the exact lab result, and may depend on the source and part of the rabbit tested*.
2. Approximate average figures are generally 3 X Frozen values:
PFF Calculated Frozen : Protein (17), Fat (5) – Approximate – Calculated Freeze-dried : Protein (51), Fat (15) – Approximate
– PFF Actual Freeze-dried : Protein (50), Fat (28) – Actual lab results*(Variability in raw source)
– Customer Calculated Freeze-dried : Protein (58), Fat (17) – Approximate
We suggest using PPF calculated amount to make the final decision.

ME:
Thanks for your response. I’d like to make sure that I understand this correctly. When the lab tested both the raw and freeze dried, they got different values for fat and protein for both formula’s (even though they are the same), because different or fattier parts of the rabbit could have been used in the freeze dried batch?
The approximate average figures are generally 3x the frozen value, but it this case it’s 6x the fat. ( 5% fat in the raw rabbit vs 28% fat in the freeze dried rabbit.)
Do you lab test each batch for protein and fat content, as it seems it can vary considerably.
On the freeze dried product it states that 28% is the minimum fat content, meaning it could be higher, but not lower.
This is where I’m confused because if the raw frozen and freeze dried are essentially the same product (just with moisture removed) the freeze dried variety had a much higher fat content than the raw…meaning different batches have different fat content. So it’s impossible to say that the minimum fat in the freeze dried rabbit is 28%, right? There are batches that could have less fat depending on the source and part of the rabbit tested.
Please let me know if this is correct.

PRIMAL:
While we are required to list guaranteed analysis information in terms of minimums and maximums, the values we’ve chosen to post are not actually a minimum or a maximum. We list the actual values that we receive from our lab tests.

ME:
That doesn’t make sense to me. You’re required to list guaranteed information in terms of minimum and maximum, but you’re choosing not to? I’m not trying to be difficult, I just genuinely don’t understand. Should I disregard the minimum/maximum values on your packaging?
YOU didn’t answer my other questions. Do you test each batch for fat/protein content? How did you decide what is listed on the freeze dried package in terms of protein and fat? Did you test multiple batches and give an average or did you only test one batch and print those results on all of the packaging?
Based on your previous emails I’m assuming that the fat content on the freeze dried product is much higher than the fat listed on the frozen raw product because of “the source or part of rabbit.”
But that being said, in other batches of food a leaner rabbit source could be used making the fat content lower. So am I correct in saying the 28% fat is not the definite minimum and could be much lower in other batches depending on the rabbit source?

(I sent that last e-mail to primal on Aug 2nd, and I have not gotten a reply back since.
Does what they’re saying make sense to anyone? I thought they were required to list minimum or maximum values….any thoughts?)

[Joyce B]

I fed my diabetic dog Hill’s W/D prescription dry for many years (with healthy toppings) and he did well until he started refusing it due to other issues. I was afraid to give him anything else all those years. But when I did he was fine and I actually had to REDUCE insulin. Research lower-glycemic carbs (barley is better than, say, potatoes), keep the fat low. And be prepared to adjust insulin accordingly. Once he is stable you can keep him on that food. I’m not a vet but this is what worked for me. My diabetic 14-year old dog is doing great and my vet agrees. Best wishes and good luck!

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Joyce B.

[Susan]

Hi Sarah,

Make sure the first 5-6 ingredients have a Meat as 1st ingredient, a meat meal as 2nd ingredient, another meat meal as 3rd ingredient then a carb, no more then 20% Legumes.
eg: Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb meal, brown rice, white rice, rice bran, this is “Canidae” All Life Stages – https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-all-life-stages-dry-formula/

– also rotate with different brands, do not fed the same dry food 24/7, change with the season or change when your big kibble bag or 2nd big bag of kibble is about to run out buy another brand & start introducing new kibble & mix with the old kibble, then once you’ve try a few different brands, see which brands your dog does best on then Rotate with those different brands..

Have a look at “Farmina”
Farmina looks like a very GOOD quality dog food
Farmina has a few different formula’s, grain free, Legume free & formula’s with Grains, Vet Life, Grain Free with egg, pumkin, pomegranate, dehydrated apple, dehydrated spinach, Sweet Orange, Quinoa, whole spelt, whole oats, etc
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop-d-Dog-food.html

* “Wellness” Complete Health Large Breed –
Deboned Chicken, Deboned Whitefish, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Peas, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice,
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/complete-health-large-breed-adult

* “Canidae” Pure Sky –
Duck, duck meal, turkey meal, sweet potatoes, peas, chicken fat,
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-grain-free-pure-sky-dry-formula

[Linda G]

Thanks, the Fromm sounds interesting. The dry food recommendations under library don’t separate by grain and grain free which means you have to click on each one to find out – if it is not the name.

[InkedMarie]

Click the “library” above in the red line and look at the dry food recommendations.

[Linda G]

Does anyone have recommendations for a good dry dog food WITH grain?

[Susan]

Hi Hope,
Here’s the wet & dry list of the Diabetic pet shop & online pet foods for diabetic dogs..
Scroll down list to the wet foods, your boy might enjoy wet foods more then the dry dog foods or rotate his foods, feed dry for breakfast & wet for lunch & dinner….

file:///C:/Users/sue66/OneDrive/Documents/Low%20Fat%20Pancreatitis%20
foods.pdf
I think you’ll have to type in link..

If you join the “Canine Diabetes Support & other Information” face book group, look in their file’s this food list is in their files & may have been up dated, more pet foods added….

[Susan]

Hi Lori Ann,
Please report this to FDA here’s the link
https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/SafetyHealth/ReportaProblem/ucm182403.htm

Which Rachael Rays Nutrish formula were you feeding???
I’ll check if it was high in Toxins & Contaminates for you as a few of Rachael Rays foods are very high in Toxins, Heavy Metals & Process Contaminates & Poor Quality Ingredients, so are few of the Fromm formula’s aswell….

Here are all the Toxic Rachael Ray formula’s..

* Rachael Ray Nutrish Turkey, Brown Rice & Venison Recipe Dry Dog Food – Heavy Metals High
* Rachael Ray Nutrish Limited Ingredient Recipe Just 6 Lamb Meal and Brown Rice Recipe Dry Dog Food – Heavy Metals High & Ingredient Quality Poor.
* Rachael Ray Nutrish Grain Free Zero Grain Salmon and Sweet Potato Recipe Dry Dog Food – Heavy Metals High & Ingredient Quality Poor..
* Rachael Ray Nutrish Real Beef and Brown Rice Recipe Dry Dog Food – Heavy Metals High, Process Contaminates High & By-product Contaminates High.
* Rachael Ray Nutrish Grain Free Zero Grain Turkey and Potato Recipe Dry Dog Food – Process Contaminates high & By-product Contaminates high.
* Rachael Ray Nutrish Real Chicken and Veggies Recipe Dry Dog Food – Heavy Metals High & Ingredient Quality Poor.

[Susan]

Hi Gabrielle,
You wrote, I have a German shepherd mix of some kind that was “rescued off the streets”. When you rescued her what condition did she come in & was she wormed then wormed again 2-3 weeks later?? she may of had the hook worm when you rescued her?

I rescued a English Staffordshire Bull Terrier in very poor condition, weeing blood then pooing blood, he had Stomach & bowel problems but I didnt know about his intestinal problems till he ate certain foods & was doing sloppy, jelly poos with blood streaked thru his poo & then he’d have like your girl had Diarrhea he couldn’t control from Food Sensitivities… Lentils & boiled Rice, boiled rice irritates his bowel, he does best eating Sweet potatoes & Potatoes as main carb in dry kibbles…also Boiled sweet Potato with his pork rissoles I make or I buy a dog food in pet fridge section that is Lamb, Coconut & veggies balls & it has sweet potato….he eats these foods for lunch..

I put my cat food up on a scratching post/tree now, the scratching post thing has ground level, a middle level & a top section where there’s a big shelf, I have put a big ceramic tile there & I feed Indy all her foods on her scratching post shelf this way Patch can not get tempted & eat any of her food & then have one of his IBD flares.

Has your vet put her on Metronidazole for 21-28 days? Metronidazole is excellent for inflammation of stomach & bowel & bad bacteria over growth, I think she needs more then the probiotic to help heal her intestinal tract. My vet writes Patch repeat scripts of Metronidazole to keep at home so when I see he’s becoming unwell again I start him on Metronidazole x 200mg tablet every 12 hours with a meal for 21 days…

I would change her diet & would start her on a dry food that has just 1 novel protein & 1 carb, has medium protein % around 28-34% & is medium in fat around 12 to 15% fat & low in carbs 32% less or start her on a Hypoallergenic vet diet & do a food elimination food diet to work out what foods she might be too?? the vet diet she is eating at the moment could be making her Intestinal tract more inflammed if she is sensitive too certain ingredient in the vet diet she is eating, ask your vet can put her on a 21 day course of Metronidazole & can you change her vet diet? not all vet diets suit all dogs health problems, my boy tried all the Hills & Royal Canine Intestinal vet diets, none of them helped him till we tried Eukanuba/Iams Intestinal Low Residue dry kibble, this helped his IBD, then after 9 months when his bowel had healed I started introducing a grain free dry kibble that had Lamb only protein & Sweet Potatoes, Potatoes, Egg & Peas & he did really well with his skin & intestinal tract…..
Are you feeding 3 smaller meals a day, divide how much she should eat a day & split into 3 meals, so stomach/bowel works less digesting smaller meals, I feed 4 smaller meals a day 7am- under 1 cup dry kibble, 12pm-at lunch time Patch gets a small wet meal about 1/2 a cup, 5pm – under 1 cup dry & 8pm-1/3 a cup dry…..

Patch is doing well eating “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult formula, it is low in Kcals-345per cup, this is what you need to look at, how high are the Kcals per cup & stay under 360 Kcals per cup, the higher the Kcals the more dense the dry kibble is, so more work on stomach & bowel to digest…also the lower the fat% & lower protein % is, the higher the carbs will be….
I asked Patches vet to do an Endoscope + Biopsies on Patch December 2013, you need the Biopsies so vet knows what is wrong & treat with medications if she still isnt better after 1 yr…. the first Endoscope & Biopsies Patch had 1 yr after I rescued him, Biopsies show he had moderate chronic lymphocytic gastritis with a lymphocytic nodule present in the deeper mucosa of one section, variable numbers of spiral bacteria present, (Helicobacter-Spiral bacteria) Some gastric pits are mildy dilated. He was always hungry & had dirrahea on & off..
Then Patch had another Endoscope & Biopsies done January 2018 this year when he went down hill real quickly after we moved, he stopped eating his favorite kibble & the whole time I’ve owned Patch he never refuses any food, only when he has his rumbling, grumbling loud bowel noises early hours of the morning, then he doesn’t want to eat, which isnt a bad thing, dogs are smart & they know when to rest their stomach & bowel… this time his poos were firm, then the next day sloppy, then diarrhea & he was eating the same dry food, he kept swolling & swolling wierd noises, he had bad acid reflux, crying with pain & wasn’t his happy go lucky self, he had a sore throat, I thought he had bowel or stomach cancer this time, biopsies showed he had mild lymphoplasmacytic and eosinophilic gastritis with spiral bacteria again…
but in the “Comment” section the Veterinary Pathologist wrote,
Sections of the small intestine could not be fully assessed because of inadequate sampling..

Patches vet said the flap between the stomach & Esophagus isnt closing properly so his stomach acids are washing back up into his throat & his wind pipe was badly inflammed & there’s nothing he can do to fix the flap, Patch was put on 21 day course of triple therapy meds… & I kept trying all different dry foods that wouldnt make him swollow as much, the Nutro grounded rice & lamb kibble work best but the kibbles that had grains were causing “big” sloppy poos or diarrhea, he needed to eat a grainfree diet without Lentils & Chickpeas which is very hard to find a grainfree dry kibble that are Legume free, finally in Australia we are getting new dry Kibbles that are Legume free which will be good for Patch but some are high in fat around 16-18% fat, this causes bad acid reflux.. 🙁

Once you find foods/ ingredients she can eat then she will get better, she needs ingredients that will not irritate her stomach & bowel more, sounds like her bowel is inflammed & she needs medication to help heal, a good diet that’s easy to digest so everything can heal…
Think back what was she eating & was doing really well on?? try that again or something similiar & feed 3 smaller meals a day, see does she settle down, also keep a diary just incase over the years she developes IBD & keeps having flares….
also becareful with weight loss/weight management dry kibbles as they are higher in fiber & carbs…around 12-14% fat isnt that high for a dog, when they eat raw diet its normally around 30-50% in fat… look at Freeze dried diets they’re heaps better then dry processed kibbles..

[Linda B]

my 4 yeara old chihuahua mix has developed urinary crystals. she has at least three different kids. struvite and oxalate and amorphous phosphate. he started her on purina pro UR which she hates, canned and dry…I rechecked her two weeks later and thats when the other two crystals showed up. He said to keep her on the food. I insisted on another urine and took one in 6 weeks later. i will get the results tomorrow. I need to ind her something to eat that she will actually eat. I was feeding her Merrick back in the day, and she quit eating it and i tried earthborn. she wasn’t real crazy about it either. Then she went on purina pro focus, then they found these crystals. anyone have any idea what kind of food would be good to help with the crystals that is maybe not so disgusting the dog won’t eat it? haha I need help, badly, and any help you give me will be appreciated by me and Baby! Thanks Her ph was 7.0, her specific gravity was elevated at 1.059. Protein was elevated at 1+ she did not have any bacteria in her urine like you see sometimes with struvites. He did not put her on an antibiotic since it showed no UTI

[Susan]

Hi Reese,
Have a look at “Earthborn Holistic Venture” formula’s? look at Alaska Pollock Meal & Pumkin formula the only problem with Venture formula’s they’re “very”high in fiber this fish formula is-13% fiber..
I do not feed any fish dry foods as they have been found to be higher in toxins & contaminates, so make sure you rotate with another brand that isn’t fish…
What I like about Earthborn Venture formula’s is Earthborn writes the plant protein % of all their carbs, so you can see how much pea protein %, the Pumkin protein %, Butter squash protein in all the Venture dry formula’s..
https://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/dog-food-formulas/venture/alaska-pollock-meal-pumpkin
When you look at Earthborn Venture Pork Meal & Butter Squash formula you’ll see it has 35% Pea protein, so this shows us when there’s just 1 meat protein meal as 1st ingredient then a carb as 2nd ingredient, then peas-3rd ingredient, the pea% (Legumes) becomes VERY high over 20%..
Ingredients – Pork Meal, Butternut Squash, Peas, Pea Protein, Flaxseed, Sunflower Oil
https://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/dog-food-formulas/venture/pork-meal-
butternut-squash

If a dry kibble has any Legumes just stay under 20% in Legumes & rotate with another brand….
Like my boy as soon as he eats any kibbles with grains he becomes real itchy 20mins after eating the grain food also he has IBD & his poo’s becomes very sloppy you can’t pick up his poo’s, he does really well on Sweet Potato & Potato kibbles & Im staying with the “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult formula, he’s doing well on it for his IBD, it has 3 meat proteins as 1st, 2nd & 3rd ingredient then it has Potatoes 4th, then peas are 5th ingredient….
I make sure there’s at least 2-4 meat proteins as 1st, 2nd, 3rd ingredients, this way there’s less carbs, so less legumes (peas).

*Here’s Farmina Pet Foods. They look very good so they’re probably expensive.
https://www.farmina.com/us/dog-food/54-n&d-quinoa-functional-canine.html

*Here’s Farmina Grain free formula’s.
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop-dog/dog-food/10-natural-&-delicious-grain-free-canine.html

[Susan]

Hi Kayla,
It sounds like your dog has Environment allergies & no matter what he eats he is itchy scratch, red paws, etc… it could be dust mites, human danger, a plant outside, it could be heaps of reason & its not what he’s eating…
Are you seeing a Dermatologist that specializes in skin problems, to work out why is his skin is dry & itchy?
Have you added fish oil to his diet or tin sardines or salmon in spring water, add 2 spoons a day to 1 of his meals?
Have you tried a Hypoallergienic vet diet?? this would be the best diet at the moment till your vet or Dermatologist works out why your dog is itchy & has dry skin?

I also have a 9 yr old dog, he’s a English Staffordshire Terrier, thay seem to be prone to allergies & food sensitivities. He suffers with Seasonal Environment Allergies, Food Sensitivitivies & IBD..
as they age they get worse with their allergies NOT better, normally thru the Winter months he does really well, as long as he isnt eating any ingredients he’s sensitive too but since moving last December this Winter has been a nightmare, I think he’s allergic to the grass in back yard & the big trees in neighbour back yard that hang over into my yard & drop these little yellow flowers….
Does your dog suffer with sloppy poos, diarrhea, gas/farts, vomiting etc this is a sign of food sensitivities?
Have you done a food Elimination diet yet? best to do food elimination diet in the cooler months when allergens aren’t as high, so you dont get confussed when the dog itches & its environment & not ingredient your adding to his diet…
Baths, are you bathing twice a week or weekly in a Medicated shampoo to wash off any allergens off skin & paws & put moisture back into his skin, I use Cucumber & Aloe baby wipes the days I don’t bath Patch..I also use creams to reduce any itchy red skin..
have you tried Apoquel or Cytopoint injections?

Here’s a really good f/b group you can join..
“Dogs, Allergies, Issues & other Information Support group” https://www.facebook.com/groups/240043826044760/

Here’s “Canine Skin Solutions group” run by 2 animal Dermatologist, take photo’s & post..
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1563654607200747/

[Kayla A]

I have 9 year old Pomeranian with itchy/dry skin issues, which makes him itch so much he loses hair. Also he also many allergies that can be found in many brands of dog food. It seems he is allergies to any form of meal product, any wheat product, and any corn product. It seems to stop hair growth and it doesnt help hes itchy all the time. Does anyone know of good dog foods that excludes this??

[Louise A]

I need to find a dry dog food that does not contain chicken or wheat just discovered my Sofia is allergic to both but wheat is everywhere at the moment I am feeding her Pro Plan Lamb and Brown rice for sensitive tummies.

[crazy4cats]

You’re welcome. I have fed a lot of WEF grain free as well. You know one of their grain inclusive formulas uses oatmeal as one of its main carbs. I might check that one out as well. My dogs do well with oatmeal when I make them a homemade meal.
As far as what grade of corn is used in the food, many brands websites will state what grade they use. If not you can email or call them.

In fact, I just emailed Iams and here is their reply:

Thank you for contacting the IAMS® Brand.

We appreciate your interest in our IAMS® ProActive Healthy Labrador Retriever dry dog food and I am happy to address your inquiry.

We can proudly say that all of our corn comes for the United States. While our corn is harvested from multiple different states, we can assure you that all of corn suppliers have passed through our Supplier Quality Assurance program, in which they must meet and preferably exceed our internal quality requirements, as well as the requirements of regulatory bodies. Additionally, we only use high-quality corn that is finely ground to break up the outside covering of each kernel, then cooked at high temperatures. This process makes the corn meal in our foods highly digestible and an excellent carbohydrate source.

I hope this is helpful. If you have additional questions or comments feel free to give us a call at 1-800-525-4267, Monday through Friday, between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. Central time.

Have a great day!

Sincerely,

Kathryn
IAMS® Brand
Consumer Relations
1-800-525-4267

They don’t really say what grade so I am going to reply and see if I can get a more specific answer.

[aimee]

Spycar,

Not a lot of research but so far what has been published hasn’t shown a protective benefit of a “natural” diet. The following is an excerpt from “Impact of Nutrition on Dental issues in companion animals” Chandler 2014

“Proponents of natural foods or of feeding raw bones have claimed this will improve the cleanliness of teeth in pets; further claims are sometimes made that feeding commercial pet food contributes to the high prevalence of periodontal disease in domesticated cats and dogs.
However, a study in foxhounds fed raw carcases, including raw bones, showed they had varying degrees of periodontal disease as well as a high prevalence of tooth fractures (Robinson and Gorrel, 1997).
The skulls of 29 African wild dogs eating a “natural diet”, mostly wild antelope, showed evidence of periodontal disease (41 per cent), teeth wearing (83 per cent) and fractured teeth (48 per cent; Steenkamp and Gorrel, 1999).
A study in small feral cats on Marion Island (South Africa) that had been eating a variety of natural foods (mostly birds) showed periodontal disease in 61 per cent of cats, although only nine per cent had evidence of calculus (Verstraete et al, 1996).
In a study in Australia of feral cats eating a mixed natural diet there was less calculus compared to domestic cats fed dry or canned commercial food, although, again, there was no difference in the prevalence of periodontal disease between the two groups (Clarke and Cameron, 1998)

These studies show a natural diet, or one containing raw bones, does appear to confer some
protection against dental calculus, but not against the more destructive periodontal disease. There is also the risk of fractured teeth”

[Reese B]

Hi,
I was looking for a lower fat raw food for my dog and noticed the primal raw rabbit recipe had 17% protein and only 5% fat. This looked like a good option. Since I don’t feed raw regularly, I thought I’d start with the freeze dried version but noticed that the protein listed was 53% and the fat was 28%. The ingredients were the same, the only difference is supposed to be that one is freeze dried.
I know that because the freeze dried product has no moisture that the values would be higher, but his seemed too high.
I calculated the raw version to a dry matter content as shown in this article: /choosing-dog-food/dry-matter-basis/

and I got that the freeze dried version should have 58% protein and 17% fat. Big difference from what’s listed on the freeze dried rabbit.

I email primal in a very detailed email explaining my question and asking how they determined the dry value as it didn’t match up to what I calculated. I got a very disappointing response back saying that “because the moister is removed, the value is higher in the freeze dried but both product were exactly the same.” It was very condescending and it seemed like they didn’t even read my e-mail as I had explained that I was aware of that.

Anyway, my question is, does the values that primal lists on their raw and freeze dried product make sense? Did I do the math wrong? Links for both products below.

Canine Raw Frozen Nuggets <br> Rabbit

Canine Freeze-Dried Nuggets <br> Rabbit

[Susan]

Hi Lindsay,

Sometimes diarrhea may not be food related, “Food Sensititivies”
the diet you were feeding probably has caused an imbalance in his intestinal tract, causing too much bad bacteria over growth….
I have a dog with IBD, Environment Allergies & Food Sensitivities, my boy does excellent eating Sweet Potatoes, Potatoes but doesn’t do well eating Lentils or Chickpeas he gets bad diarrhea from lentils & chickpeas cause bad gas & sloppy poos…

Dr Greg Aldrich PhD, Research Associate Professor at Kansas State University, Pet Food & Ingredient Technology,
found Legume Seeds carry significant quantities of FERMENTABLE OLIGSACCHARIDES, In small amounts these may be beneficicial to the animal BUT large concentrations of Legumes can become an issue & have significant impact on level of fermentable fiber in the colon, limit legume seeds, no more then 20% in a dogs diet…
I’d say this is what has happened with your boy & is still happening & diarrhea isnt clearing up, his diet has caused floral imbalance & has affected the balance between beneficial bacteria vs.harmful bacteria in his intestinal tract.
this is why your vet has put him on Purina Fortiflora, but your dog needs something stronger?

…Make sure fiber % is under 5%, his diet is not too high in fiber, a dogs digestive tract is short & they don’t need all this fiber in their diet, alot of these newer grain free dry kibbles are higher in fiber cause of all the Legumes….
…My boy will eat the same kibble & have NO problems with his IBD then all of a sudden he starts racting doing very sloppy, smelly poos or gets bad diarrhea & has bad gas (farts), its either from his environment allergies are so bad & puts his immune system into over drive his vet said causing a bad IBD flare, it always happens late March, the end of Summer (I live Australia).
My vet said she see’s us every March & showed me her computer screen & we visit her around the same date every March these last 5yrs needing medications, this is when she said to keep a diary, then over the years you’ll start to see a pattern with his Environment allergies, but sometimes when Patch has sloppy poos or has diarrhea the vet says he has too much bad bacteria… I think she knows when she asks what colour is his sloppy poos, too much bad bacteria, normally dog does yellow smelly poos its Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth, (S.I.B.O)…Big Dark cow paddy poos are normally a large bowel problem..
Patch gets put him on Metronidazole 200mg for 3 weeks, 1 x 200mg tablet twice a day, every 12 hours with a meal for 2 weeks, then the next week he just takes 1 x 200mg tablet with his Dinner for 7 days.
Metronidazole kills the bad bacteria in stomach & bowel, I change & rotate his diet but when he’s doing diarrhea from Environment allergies & his immune system has gone off the rails & is over reacting, I just feed him what he’s been eating cause his diarrhea isn’t caused by too much bad bacteria in gut…

You would have seen on the news lately about Legumes, I wouldn’t be feeding my dog a high Legume diet & Zignature is very high in Legumes, till FDA works out why Legumes are blocking Taurine in dogs diet…..

How did you work out he can’t eat Chicken, Sweet Potatoes & Potatoes?? I thought the same 4-5 yrs ago when I first rescued Patch, I thought Patch couldn’t eat Potatoes & for 1 yr I didnt know what to feed Patch, it was a nightmare until 1 lady that worked at Pet Shop told me to start adding 2 tablespoons of boiled potato to his meals or give 2 tablespoons of boiled potato for lunch as a treat daily & see does he get diarrhea?? & she was right he was not sensitive to potatoes or sweet potatoes, they firmed up his poo’s lol.. I look back now & I think it was the fish in the Eukanuba FP- Potato & Fish vet diet I started to introduce, something was off making Patch very unwell with bad diarrhea, I bought Eukanuba FP for his skin allergies, poor Patch had bad diarrhea for 1 week straight, we couldnt clear up his diarrhea, so he couldnt eat no food for 48hours, only given an electrolyte drinks, then take Metodinazole twice a day & then was put onto Royal Canine Low Fat Intestinal wet can food only, its pork, corn & rice, then when course of Metonidazole tablets were finished, he was put on Protexin Probiotic powder for 6months…

Have you done a proper elimination food diet? this can take up to 6 months or you can use a Hypoallergic vet diet, then when dog is doing well, you start adding 1 new ingredient with the vet diet & he cant eat any treats nothing just the Hypoallergenic vet diet & then introduce 1 new food every 6 weeks…

I’d see your vet again & tell him his diarrhea isnt clearing up, ask can you try a 21-28 day course of “Metronidazole” to kill the bad bacteria, then when the Metronidazole course is finished start giving the Purina Pro Plan Fortifora again give without any food, best to give probiotics inbetween meals or first thing of the morning when stomach acids are low, not high, when you’re digesting your food your stomach acids are higher & kill the live probiotics…I was mixing 1 teaspoon probiotic powder with 10-15ml water, swirling water & dissolving powder in bowl & then Patch would drink it, mid morning inbeween meals he thought he was getting a treat….

What meat protein does he do well on?

I’d look for a Freeze dried or Air dried food like “Ziwi Peak” – https://www.ziwipets.com/catalog/ziwi-peak-dog-nutrition

or look for a limited ingredient kibble that has just 1 single meat protein you know he does well on & make sure omega 3 & 6 is balanced properly, Omega 3% should be around 1/2 of what the Omega 6% is, this is why vet diets are good as they’re properly balanced.

I normally suggest Sweet Potatoes & Potates for diarrhea as dogs normally do firmer poos on potatoes, even vet diets have potatoes for the Skin & Stomach health, Royal Canine has their Select Protein formula’s & Hills has their D/D formula’s, but he cant eat potatoes, is this cause he’s sensitive to them & gets yeasty ears & skin or does he get diarrhea??
a dog only gets yeasty skin paws & ears when he is sensitive to an ingredient & then he reacts causing stomach or skin problems or Environment allergies can cause yeasty skin ears & paws…

Maybe ask your vet for a Intestinal Health vet diet or a Hypoallergenic vet diet to help balance gut flora for healthy gut & take the Metronidazole then after he’s doing really well after 4-6months then I’d look for a limited ingredient kibble that has healthy grains, if he cant eat sweet potatoes & potatoes…
then once you find a few different brands he does well on the start rotating between different brands, so he isnt eating the same dog food 24/7 & if something is wrong with one brand he’s eating your rotating his food every 2-3 months & not causing any health problems….Rotating foods strengthen immune system/gut aswell..

* “Wellness Simple” LID Lamb & Oats or Duck & Oats -https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/simple-dogs

* “Wellness Core”

Core Dog Products

* “Farmina” has LID or Farmina Vet Life – https://www.farmina.com/us/d-dog-food.html

* “Natural Balance” LID Lamb & Rice

[Susan]

Hi,
Doodles are known for skin allergies, are you on facebook? join this group a few Doodle owners are in the group, “Dog Allergies, Issues and Other Information Support Group”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DogAllergiesIssuesandOtherInformationSupporGroup/

The only true way to test what foods your dog is sensitive too is to do a food elimination diet & do it in the cooler months, not Spring & Summer when pollens, flowers, allergens are high…
These Blood, Salvia & Hair/Fur test give false positives. My vet told me when some of her clients push to have the blood test done even thought she has told them you’re wasting your money, my vet said she has found the foods the dog is eating at the time will come up as a positive… When your dog had his blood test was he eating any of these ingredients rice, pork, peas & potatoes etc that came back positive?? if you do the blood test again it will come back with different food allergens & not the same ones, this is why it’s not realiable…. also as the dog ages their allergies get worse, my boy suffers with Seasonal Evironment allergies (Only bad Spring & Summer )& food sensitivites, he’ll be turning 10yrs old Nov & 2017 Summer till now which is Winter in Australia has been the worst year I’ve had with him, his vet told me it will get worse & wants him on Apoquel before Summer comes in a 4months, he reacted really bad last Summer Dec 2017 & had a really bad IBD flare which attacked his Esophagus, I nilly put him too sleep in Febuary this year but his vet begged me to please wait another month for Summer to finish…..Finally in April he started to get better after I started to feed him “Wellness Core” Large Breed dry kibble…

I’d say your dog is suffering from Environment Allergies in the Summer months & has food sensitivities, keep a diary & you will start to see a pattern as the seasons & years pass, he’ll be worse thru the hotter months, he’ll do better in the cooler winter months as long as he isn’t eating anything he’s sensitive too, it’s best to change foods etc when Winter is approaching when outdoor allergens aren’t as high & won’t interfer with your food elimination trial…

Have you tried a Hypoallergenic vet diet? you can do elimination food diet with these Hypoallergenic vet diets…once your dog is doing well on 1 of the Hypoallergenic vet diets & doesn’t have any skin problems this is when you introduce 1 new ingredient to his diet & introduce 1 of the foods that came up positive in his blood test, start him on Potato or rice, boil some potatoes & add 2 spoons potatoe with his vet diet meals or give the boiled potatoe or rice as a treat & see does he start reacting, it can take from 20mins up to 6 weeks for the dog to start reacting to an ingredient when he’s sensitive, my dog reacts within 20mins after eating an ingredient he’s sensitive too.. you fed either the rice or potatoes for 6 weeks only stop feeding if he reacts to the potatoe..
Its not the starches in the food he’s sensitive too its the protein in the food he’ll react too….
I nilly forgot “BATHS” weekly baths or as soon as he is itchy, rolling rubbing on grass, carpets, licking scratching give him a bath twice a week is best thru the hot months…
Baths wash off all allergens on skin paws face etc I use ” Malaseb” medicated shampoo its relieves itchy skin & paws..

Have you looked are “Freeze Dried Raw formula’s instead of dry kibbles?

* “Ziwi Peak”
https://www.ziwipets.com/catalog/ziwi-peak-dog-nutrition

* “Farmina” Natural & Delicious or the other Farmina formula’s
https://www.farmina.com/us/d-dog-food.html

* “Canidae” Pure Ancestral Raw Grain Free coated formula’s..
https://www.canidae.com/dogs/canidae-grain-free-pure-ancestral-raw-coated-dry-fish-formula-with-salmon-mackerel-pollock-whitefish-tuna/

Just make sure any grain free kibbles you feed are under 20% in Legumes or are Legume free.. Until FDA finds out why Lemuges is blocking Taurine….

[anonymous]

Just to err on the side of caution till they complete the investigation regarding “grain-free” dog foods, which may turn out to be nothing.
I have decided to try Fromm Classic Adult for one of my dogs, take a look https://frommfamily.com/products/dog/classic/dry/#adult

Also, I think the key may be to add taurine rich foods such as boiled egg to the kibble with a splash of water. Consider the kibble to be the base and not the entire meal.

Otherwise, I am not giving up on Zignature, my dogs have been doing very well on it. No potatoes!

[Susan]

Hi
I think people are confusing these health problems caused by Legumes with Potatoes aswell…
Earlier this month, the Food and Drug Administration announced that it is investigating a link between these newer Exotic protein, high Legume Grain Free diets with a common type of canine heart disease, DCM.
FDA also mentioned Potatoes awell but I think Potatoes were only mentioned cause these newer grain free kibbles have Peas, Chickpeas & Potatoes, or they’ll have Peas, Green Lentils, Red lentils & Sweet Potatoes….
So Potatoes were mentioned on the FDA report??…
“Guilit by association”
I have seen NO proof that it’s potatoes blocking taurine & causing heart problems in dogs?
If anyone has any proof that potatoes are blocking taurine causing deficiency of Amino Acid Taurine in Dogs.
Please post this proof..

When G/F kibbles first came out years ago they all had Potatoes & Sweet Potatoes & there were NO health problems in dogs..
There’s kibbles that have healthy grains & potatoes, these kibbles have caused no health problems, these health problems happened since these newer G/F kibbles were very high in Legumes…
Types of Legumes
Chickpeas.
Beans.
Peas.
Lentils.
Lupins.

Royal Canine & Hills make vet formula’s that contain Potatoes but they do not have any vet diets containing Legumes..???

Potatoes are not related to Legumes.
Legumes are the fruit or pod of the botanical family Leguminosae. The potato tuber (Solanaceae family) is actually the greatly enlarged tip of the underground stem of the potato.
Potatoes are a Tublr plant with notable tuberous roots include sweet potato, cassava….

If you’re looking for a new kibble look for kibbles that have Sweet potatoes, Rice, Oats, Potatoes, Blueberries, Butternut Squash, Pumkin, healthy grains etc as long as your dog doesn’t have any food sensitivitives to certain grains & ingredients…
Make sure there’s no more then 20% legumes (peas) in the dry kibble, if the kibble has peas just make sure the peas are further down the ingredient list, 5th 6th 7th ingredient & peas are NOT 1st 2nd 3rd or 4th ingredient…

Here’s a kibble ingredient list that I’d avoid, this formula is very high in Legumes….

“Kangaroo, Kangaroo Meal, Peas, Chickpeas, Pea Flour, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Citric Acid), Flaxseed, Red Lentils, Green Lentils, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Pea Protein, Natural Flavors, Salt,”

*There’s Red Lentils, Green Lentils, Chickpeas & Peas, all these Legume ingredients make the protein % higher with Plant Proteins, Kangaroo is expensive so there’s more plant proteins, then meat proteins also look at ingredient spliting with peas? peas are 3rd ingredients, then again Pea Flour is 5th ingredient, then pea protein is 11th ingredient, if they didn’t split the peas up then the peas would probably have been 1st or 2nd ingredient…

also rotate your kibbles with different brands, so your dog has variety in his diet, if 1 brand of kibble does have something wrong with it, your dog isnt eating this brand long enough to cause any health problems cause your rotating his diet….

Look at Freeze Dried raw aswell, there’s some good freeze dried dog foods, the freeze dried ingredients are not cooked at very high temperatures like kibble is made so the nutrients stays in the ingredients….

“Ingredient spliting” is a trick these Pet Food Companies do, they split the peas up, in the ingredient list, pea flour, pea protein, pea fiber, when you see these ingredient avoid these dog foods as they are full of peas, the peas are really the 1st ingredient but cause they have split the peas into pea flour, pea protein, pea fiber, then the peas move further down the ingredient list but really the peas are 1st ingredient & your meat protein is probably 3rd ingredient….
Ingredient list are written when ingredients are raw, not cooked, these pet food companies know all the tricks & cons so we buy their foods, we just have to be smarter then them & learn how to read an ingredient list..

Please post kibble brands & their formula’s that are legume free or 20% or less in legumes, to help people that dont know what to feed till we get more answers..
Please no nasty posts…

[pitlove]

Lauren-

You are very welcome. Right now I feed Victor dry food. A lot of people seem to be using that food lately, even people that feed raw and kibble together. Might be a good option for you. A girl I follow on Insta gram who shows her pit bull uses the teal bag of Victor and mixes raw meat from the grocery with it. I would however stay away from the grain free line until the FDA can figure out what is going on with the DCM issue and grain free foods.

[Stacy H]

I found a couple of articles that I thought were interesting, especially the first:

https://wagglydogs.com/dog-advice-and-welfare/fda-dog-food-warning-hasty-too-focused-on-ingredients/
https://www.americanveterinarian.com/news/fda-warns-of-possible-link-between-grainfree-dog-foods-and-heart-disease

I easily remember when “grain-free” didn’t exist. Then it’s like a trend took over the shelves… it was what people wanted or thought they wanted, but that doesn’t necessarily make it what’s most natural or healthy for the dogs. (Look at me talking of course, with my big bag of grain-free food I ended up buying.) I always noted how these foods tend to be loaded with peas instead.

I’m so lost about what to do next for my Brodie. I’ll probably go back to a grain-inclusive food, maybe Canidae. I feed him dry food with some canned Merrick and some tasty real foods as a topper.

[Susan]

Hi Jack,
It’s best to give your dog a probiotic without any food, dog foods with probiotics are sprayed over the kibble, then these kibbles are shipped in hot containers, hot trucks, stored in hot pet shops the probiotic bacteria die…….
Heat kills any live bacteria/cultures in the probiotic, have a look at “Purina Florti Floria” dog probiotic, when they tested 10 dog probiotics only 3 came back with live cultures the rest of te dog probiotics were a waste of money…..I was adding 1 teaspoon probiotic powder to 10-15ml water swirl water around to dissolve the powder probiotic & then let your dog drink the probiotic when stomach is empty, normally 3-4 hours after eating a meal the stomach empties..as a dog or human ages it’s stomach takes longer to empty & we dont make as much Hydrochloric Acid like we did when we were younger so immue system starts to suffer, I think giving him a daily liquid probiotic drink will help strengthen his immune system..
Purina Fortiflora has live cultures, when tested Fortiflora came 1st with live cultures.. also a probiotics shouldn’t be given with a meal/food as Hydrochloric Acid (stomach acid) kills the live bacteria cultures in the probiotic, it’s best to take a probiotics on an empty stomach, inbeween meals or first thing of a morning 30mins before eating… I give my boy 1/2 of my “Yakult” probiotic drink around 11am inbetween his meals… https://www.chewy.com/purina-pro-plan-veterinary-diets/dp/50000

With his diet can you go back to home cooked meals? but change the ingredients you were feeding & look for recipes with ingredients that are for dogs with urinary problems…

If your on face book join “Monica Segal” f/b group called “K-9 Kitchen” she has a few recipes for dogs with urinary problems… also “Dr Judy Morgan DVM” has easy to recipes.
Even if just 1 of his meals is a cooked meal then the other meal is a dry kibble, if feeding any dry kibbles that are grain free make sure it’s has no more then 20% Legumes, stay away from any dog foods that are high in Legumes, (Peas, Lentils, Chickpeas, Beans) expecially if you have medium to large breed dogs…
Vitamin C streghthens the immune system, High Potency vitamin C for dogs but make sure you slowly introduce over 1-2 weeks…

[Susan]

Hi Lucy,
So sorry to hear about your dog…
if you’re on facebook here’s the “Ketopets” page
https://www.facebook.com/KetoPet/?ref=br_rs

Here’s a link to sign-up for our free eBook – A Pet Parent’s Guide to the Ketogenic Diet
http://ketopetsanctuary.us14.list-manage1.com/subscribe?u=12089829883ef282ec975c75b&id=d90ce5befe

I would stop feeding any fish kibbles as they have been found to be higher in Toxins & Contaminates…if he’s staying on a dry proccessed kibble look for kibbles that have Turkey as main protein as turkey meat is heaps cleaner then any fish in a dry dog kibble…

If you can cook for him then I’d start cooking his meals, even if you just feed him 1 cooked meal a day that has healthy fresh whole foods…anti cancer foods, broccoli, spinach, leafy dark greens, kale, carrots, cranberries, blueberries, winter squash, apple, flaxseed..

I wonder if your dog didn’t eat a fish kibble year after year would he have still gotten bladder cancer??
We need to do more research into a dogs diet, especially when the dog just eats a dry kibble & their dry diet isnt rotated between different brands & meat proteins…
No research by Hills, Royal Canine or Purina….

[Geri A]

I introduced Nature’s Menu wet food to my 12 year old Aussie. She had been having normal aging issues and wasn’t eating her dry food much anymore, had increased pantiing and several panic attacks when left alone. Originally I had made a chicken “stew” to add to her dry food. I had a very busy week at work so tried this food as an addition. She loved it at first. Several weeks later she seemed to be getting more stressed, heavily panting anytime she wasn’t sleeping, sleeping 45 minutes at a time all night with prolonged panting episodes in between, lethargic, excessive water intake but not urinating more frequently and hard stool. Pain medication did not help. Anxiety meds did not help. Reviewed with the vet what else could be causing these changes…..only change at home was the food. Found this thread and did some other research on mossy oak company. They also partnered with blue buffalo, which had a lead issue rexently. Stopped using nature’s menu and 3 days later, no panting, back to being energetic, normal stool, normal water intake and urination. And she slept through the night for the first time in weeks!
Whatever is in this food was killing my dog. I would not recommend it to anyone.
Government needs to test this stuff. While it isn’t hurting every dog, it obviously has something that is causing others extreme illness.

[Jack R]

I have a 14 year old dog that caught kennel cough last summer. It seemed to pass within a few days, and all the other dogs are 100% recovered. Except for slowing down a little, he was fine over the winter, but since the start of summer, he’s had ongoing respiratory problems. It started with a URI in early June, which was treated with antibiotics without much improvement. That led the Vet to believe it could have been fungal in origin, but the antifungal meds made him very sick, so we were forced to discontinue it. I was given Veterinary permission to try echinacea as a last resort, which helped more than I expected it would. I started cooking for him too, but had to stop that because for some reason, he urinates rivers and was leaking urine in the house on a homemade diet – his kidney values were normal, btw. So he’s back on Purina and still hasn’t shaken off this infection 100%.

Now, I was recently told by another dog owner who thinks she Knows Everything that food is to blame and only expensive kibble with probiotics would cure him. I thought maybe the probiotics and “extras” might be a help in this instance, considering he’s old and his immune system seems to be run down. I started looking at dry food with pre/probiotics added, and realized two things.

First, many of the probiotics are not beneficial bacteria but aspergillus niger, which I know can balance out intestinal flora, but is essentially giving the dog black mold. Incidentally, the Vet believes the dog initially got sick in the first place not from kennel cough, but from eating sticks and grass growing in a section of my yard that became contaminated with green/black mold after a neighbor’s sick tree dropped mold spores on my property. This is a common cause of blastomycosis, in fact, which my dog was checked for. I can’t understand how giving fungus to a dog with a system overrun with it could ever be beneficial. I would even think it dangerous to give on a long term basis, lest an overgrowth ever occur. Secondly, I realized after looking through at least a dozen foods that every time one or more of my dogs had a noticeable change in temperament after a food switch (this occurred on three different brands over the years), it happened to be one that included pre or probiotics. Could there have possibly been a connection?

So my long winded way of asking a question is could a food change help a dog battling chronic systemic fungal infection, and would one with probiotics help or hurt this condition? Thanks!

[Kelley H]

Hi, my name is Kelley and I am new to the forum. I work for CountryPet Naturals, and this post was recently brought to my attention by one of our customers. I would like to clarify some of the points mentioned above as they are not an accurate representation of our pasteurized frozen dog and cat food rolls. I see the original post has three main concerns, so I will address each of them below.

1. Our website and product packaging accurately list all ingredients that go into the food as required by the FDA. Our food contains muscle meat (including heart), offals (organs such as lung, liver and kidney), small amounts of ingredients to bind the meat together (such as pea fiber, tapioca starch, vegetable oil), and vitamins & minerals which are required by the AAFCO to ensure a complete and balanced food for dogs and cats of all life stages. The minimum meat content in any of these recipes is 92%.

The protein and fat contents vary slightly depending on the recipe, but we are required to publish the minimum levels of protein and fat that may be found in our food. As a small family-owned company, we are conservative with our minimum values, with lab testing consistently showing levels higher than we publish. If we look at the dry-matter basis of our Lamb Recipe Dog Food, for example, the protein comes out to a minimum of 38%, fat is a minimum of 34%, fiber a maximum of 3%, and ash a maximum of 16%. The remainder is known as Nitrogen Free Extract (or carbohydrates), which comes out approximately 9%. In reality, the protein and fat content is higher than what we state on the packaging, and the ash and carbohydrates are lower, but we always stay on the conservative side and have never in our history had to recall a product from the market.

2. To the best of my knowledge, our food has never contained Menadione and is certainly not an ingredient included in any of our recipes. All ingredients are posted on our website and printed on the product packaging.

3. None of our foods are raw, and we do not advertise the product as raw. However, some of our customers mistake the product for raw due to the high meat content and texture. Instead of offering a completely raw diet, our Naturally New Zealand line is pasteurized to help keep our customers’ pets and family safe. Raw meat can carry dangerous bacteria such as Salmonella and E. coli, which cause food-borne illness. Again, we choose to do this to avoid recalls, the likes of which have plagued companies that do offer raw diets.

Overall, the ingredients that go into our pet food are 92%-plus sourced from human-grade animal products, and those animals are pasture-raised in New Zealand and free of hormones, antibiotics and grain diets. Our goal is to provide a safe, high-quality product that we can be proud of, and I strongly believe we have accomplished that goal with this dog and cat food. Here’s a link to product reviews posted to our website by happy pet parents.

Please let me know if there are any questions and I’ll be happy to provide answers.

Thank you,
Kelley

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Kelley H.

[lynette w]

Check the ingredients. They may already include Taurine.

I contacted Wellness as I feed Wellness Core. I am leery of any research done by UC Davis as their studies are often funded by Science Diet, Purina or Royal Canin and they have also had studies regarding petfood in the past hat have been inaccurate.

Here is the letter from Wellness:
ear Lynette,
Thank you for taking the time to write to us about our Wellness® CORE® Dry Dog Food.
We are aware of some research conducted by the FDA on grain-free diets that contain high levels of legumes. Wellness has added supplemental Taurine to all dog diets since 2004 as a precautionary step following similar research that was published relative to the use of lamb and brown rice in diets. Currently Taurine has yet to be considered a requirement for dogs, and we add twice the minimum level of Taurine required for cats since it is a required nutrient for cats. It’s also important to note that unlike cats, which are dependent on their daily diets for their Taurine, dogs can synthesize (produce) Taurine given the proper precursors in their daily diets.
Please also know the FDA has contacted the makers of the offending foods, and we have not been contacted by the FDA but continue to watch the situation.
As always, our Consumer Affairs Team is available to talk with you if you have any additional questions. We can be reached at 800-225-0904. Please click the link at the bottom of this email, which will send you to our Follow-up page, where you will be able to continue your conversation with us and attach any requested/necessary pictures or documents related to your contact.
Thanks again for contacting us.
Sincerely,
Melanie
WellPet
Consumer Affairs Representative
000545098A

[lynette w]

I contacted Wellness as I feed Wellness Core. I am leery of any research done by UC Davis as their studies are often funded by Science Diet, Purina or Royal Canin and they have also had studies regarding petfood in the past hat have been inaccurate.

Here is the letter from Wellness:

ear Lynette,

Thank you for taking the time to write to us about our Wellness® CORE® Dry Dog Food.

We are aware of some research conducted by the FDA on grain-free diets that contain high levels of legumes. Wellness has added supplemental Taurine to all dog diets since 2004 as a precautionary step following similar research that was published relative to the use of lamb and brown rice in diets. Currently Taurine has yet to be considered a requirement for dogs, and we add twice the minimum level of Taurine required for cats since it is a required nutrient for cats. It’s also important to note that unlike cats, which are dependent on their daily diets for their Taurine, dogs can synthesize (produce) Taurine given the proper precursors in their daily diets.

Please also know the FDA has contacted the makers of the offending foods, and we have not been contacted by the FDA but continue to watch the situation.

As always, our Consumer Affairs Team is available to talk with you if you have any additional questions. We can be reached at 800-225-0904. Please click the link at the bottom of this email, which will send you to our Follow-up page, where you will be able to continue your conversation with us and attach any requested/necessary pictures or documents related to your contact.

Thanks again for contacting us.

Sincerely,

Melanie
WellPet
Consumer Affairs Representative
000545098A

[Susan]

Hi Di F,
sounds like he was feed a cooked diet, you might have to cook for him, feed him what you eat as long as it has no onions, no ingredients dogs can’t eat..
join face book groups, like Monica Segals group called “K-9 Kitchen”
Lew Olson f/b group called “K-9 Nutrition”

*Judy Morgan DVM here’s her Pup loaf very easy to make & is balanced.

*Here’s Dr Judy Morgans face book page. ‘Like’ & follow her, there’s lots of good information..
https://www.facebook.com/JudyMorganDVM/

He’ll be healthier eating cooked diet instead of dry or wet dog food.. He’s a Smart dog & can tell the difference from a fresh cooked meal & processed meal…

You could look at at Freeze Dried raw & Air Dried raw..send “Ziwi Peak” email & explain what is happening & ask for some samples of their air dried formula’s, make sure you include your address & ph nb..
“Ziwi Peak” – https://www.ziwipets.com/catalog/ziwi-peak-dog-nutrition
Do the same with “Kiwi Kitchen” – http://www.kiwikitchens.nz/dog-food/freeze-dried-dog-food/

[Di F]

Hi. I’m new to this group and haven’t had a chance to read everything yet plus I’m sure this has been asked b4.
I rescued a 6 yr old Maltese/Terrier a week & a half ago. I’ve already taken him to my vet (obtained his previous medical records). He’s physically healthy but suffered from anxiety.
He has an appetite and will eat what I’m eating but turns his nose up at every dry or wet food I give him. Between wet & dry we’ve 7 different types so far.
Any suggestions would be most welcome. I feel so bad when I know he’s probably hungry but won’t eat.

[Susan]

Hi EM,
I’d see a vet, he might have Pancreatitis, Acid reflux, he needs blood test done, something is wrong for him, normally when food causes pain, acid reflux etc they become fussy & picky eaters as food has caused pain or a problem in the past & since dogs can’t talk & tell us whats wrong we have to some how work out what is wrong & causing pain…
Have you tried cooking a lean white meat turkey breast or chicken breast & boil some sweet potato, peeled & cut sweet potatoes into small bite size pieces. Sweet potato pieces freeze very well & thaw quickly in micowave 10sec or leave frozen sweet potato pieces on beach top for 30mins or put in fridge the night before…. reduce fat in diet if feeding any dry kibbles or any wet can foods..
Wet can foods are higher in fat then a dry kibble fat%…. so if you see say 5%min-fat on a wet can of food then that needs to be converted to dry matter fat (Kibble) & when you convert 5%min fat thats around 20%min to 25% max fat if it were a dry kibble, so 5%min is pretty high, you need get a wet can food under 3%max- fat & 78%-moisture for a wet can food bought from pet shop/supermarket.. hat will be under 10%ax -fat..

Best to buy the wet can food from a vet, buy a vet diet for Intestinal health as they are made to be low in fat… under 10% in fat
thats what I do, I buy the Hills & Royal Canine Low Fat wet can foods as the fat in these vet diets for stomach pancreas are lower in fat..
There’s “Hills I/d Digestive Care” Low Fat, Rice, Vegetable & Chicken Stew, your dog will probably eat this, it smells really good the fat is 9.5% max, the fat has been converted
https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-id-low-fat-canine-rice-vegetable-and-chicken-stew-canned
Hills have converted the fat in all their Hills vet formula’s on the Hills site.
https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-id-low-fat-canine-canned
Look at Royal Canine Intestinal Low Fat, 2.5% max fat has not converted yet when converted the fat is 7-8% fat..
https://www.royalcanin.com/products/royal-canin-veterinary-diet-canine-gastrointestinal-low-fat-canned-dog-food-13.6-oz-24-cans-case-/47071
When a dog is ill they do prefer a wet food just becareful with the fat% as he might have Pancreatitis & need under 10% fat… they vomit have nausea & dont want to eat & get pain around their right side rib cage, dogs are their worst enermy as they are so good at hiding their pain…
I’d see a vet & get blood tests done, if you need to check stomach the only way to test a dogs stomach/digestive tract is Endoscope + Biopsies, Endoscope the vet can see into the stomach thru camera & the biopsoes can tell the vet whats wrong. Endoscope isn’t painful they go to vet practice in morning & are home by 3pm & allowed to eat a small meal, there’s no pain but it will cost around $800 AU that’s Australian $, so it will cost less for American vet, probably $400, you’ll get some answers if blood test came back OK…
or ask vet can you try an acid reducer-Pepcid (Famotidine) given 30mins before a meal twice a day or an Acid blocker- Prilosec (Omeprazole) 20mg given once a day in morning doesn’t need to be given on an empty stomach..
Best try either one for 5-10 days & see if there’s any improvement with him not wanting to eat..this will be the cheapest to do & see results….

[Susan]

Hi Narayanan,
Look for a dry kibble that has limited ingredients & is lower in Kcals per cup under 360kcals per cup, the lower the Kcals the kibble is easier to digest, also fat keep the fat under 14% max..
Mast Cell Tumors attacks their stomach causing acid refux, vomiting, bloody stools, their stools will be black sometimes. If you can cook some of his meals it will be heaps better for his stomach…
Look at “Wellness Core” large breed formula, https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-large-breed-large-breed
My boy isnt a large breed, he’s a 9yr old, medium breed with IBD, he went down hill last December 2017, became sicker & sicker, then in March 2018 I started him on the Wellness Core Large breed dry kibble cause I could return if it didn’t agree with him, the Kcals were low-346 per cup, the fat is 13% max, the protein -34% & the carbs – 30%, after eating the Wellness Core for 2-4 weeks he became well again & is his old happy self again…

[Blkdoodle]

Just when, all I had to research, for my food allergic doodle, something else comes up throwing a “wrench” in the mix. Right now I have her on Instinct Limited Diet Lamb dry, and a topper of Instinct Lamb wet alternating with Whole Earth Hearty Lamb Stew. I look for a food that has at least two meats at the beginning and hopefully without peas, potatoes, green beans etc. That’s hard to find.
I have no idea if she is getting enough taurine or not. I just wish dog food manufactures didn’t have to “fill” their foods with potatoes, peas, beans etc.

[Susan]

Hi,
I would look for a limited ingredient single protein dry kibble, this Victor Active has 4 meats, excellent for a dog who has a healthy Intestinal tract..
My boy has IBD I had to start with a vet diet, then once we found a vet diet that agreed with him & firmed his poos & was doing 2 small firm poos a day “Eukanuba Intestinal” Low Residue formula he had to stay on Eukanuba Intestinal vet diet for 6-12months to strengthen his immune system (Gut), then after 9months, I started trying a new dry kibble but it had to have 1 single meat, limited ingredient kibble & he finally did well on Taste Of The Wild Pacific Stream, Smoked Salmon but in Australia our some of our TOTW formula’s do NOT have any Peas, Lentils Chickpeas like the America TOTW, we still get the old TOTW formula’s.. he did really well on the peas free TOTW Pacific Stream Salmon formula except he started vomiting back up the dry kibble, now I’ve learnt to stay away from any fish kibbles as they are higher in Contaminates & Toxins, I changed him over to the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb formula it just has Lamb as meat protein & he did really well, no skin problems & firm poo’s, then I started introducing other foods in his diet so he’d get use to different ingredients, I even went thru a Animal Nutritionist & put him on a raw elimination diet, Kangarro & blended veggies, his poos were beautiful BUT he kept regurgitating back up water & some digested raw, then he was getting bad acid reflux & after regurgitating the raw the acid burnt esophagus so I put him back on dry food & started to cook the raw diet & feed it for Lunch & feed 4 smaller meals thru the day..

I would take baby steps, you will know once she has stopped taken all her meds…
Why does your 4-5 month old pup have UTI’s, she is so young?? also the pancreas test, you’d know if she had Pancreas problems, she’d be vomiting sometimes, eating grass & having pancreas pain & maybe sloppy poo’s, but her Pancreas would young & healthy??
I really think she is too young to be having problems with her Pancreas??..
What colour are her poos?? if her poos are yellow, smelly & sloppy look into Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth, S.I.B.O……while she was taking Metronidazole (Flagyl) were her poos better? sometimes they need to take the Metronidazole for 21-28 days to kill any bad bacteria in stomach/small bowel.. this is what Patch ended up having SIBO & Helicobacter-Pylori, it took a few years to get everything healthy aagain, now I can feed him any foods as long as he’s not sensitive to those ingredients, he does well on Chicken for stomach & bowel BUT not for his skin, he gets red yeasty paws & red skin around his mouth after he eats Chicken, Barley, Oats, Tapioca, Corn & cooked Carrots make his ears itchy…

If you can afford a vet diet that’s where I’d start, as Intestinal Vet diets have FOS, MOS, Inulin, Vitamin B, Beet Pulp, everything to help make the Intestinal Tract healthy, then once she is stable on a vet diet for at least 6 months then start her on a premium dog food that only has 1 meat protein & a few carbs..but slowly start introducing over 2 week period if you see her poos going sloppy while introducing new food, then stop new food & go back a few steps & stay on what she was doing firm poos on & keep a diary write everything down, food, ingredients, flea med, worm meds etc just in case you needs to remember certain things….I wouldnt give her any of those Flea chews yet, just use the spot on flea repellents for now till you work out her stomach bowel problem, just in case she has a very sensitive stomach/bowel, I just read a post on a Staffy f/b group, the lady gave her dog a Bravecto chew will the vet gave her dog the Bravecto chew & he’s been in vet hospital on a drip now for 1 week, dont ever vaccinate, worm & give flea chews all at the same time some vets do this on vet visits I know teh rescue vets do this & some dog can not cope always leave 1-2 weeks inbetween meds vaccination & flea repellents etc
How much does the bag of kibble say to feed her for the weight of your pup? maybe feed 3 smaller meals a day, thats what your suppose to feed a puppy 3 meals a day then they go to the 2 larger meals as they are older.. also have you tried boiled chicken or turkey breast & some boiled potato or try boil rice & see are her poos firm?? maybe for lunch over weekend try a small cooked meal, or a wet can vet diet the Royal Canine Intestinal low fiber is really good, some vet diets are formulated for growning pups your vet will know which ones Im pretty sure the Hills I/D Digestive Care wet & dry is formulataed for growing pups this way you”ll see does she do firm poos over a 2 week period? or try the single meat limited carbs next & see if poos are sloppy then try a vet diet.. Keep us informed with what happens with Zanya’s health….

[Patricia A]

Just like to share this. By Dr. Karen Shaw Becker

Thirty years ago, researchers at the School of Veterinary Medicine at University of California, Davis discovered the link between taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM), a heart muscle disease in cats.1 According to Morris Animal Foundation, “The veterinary community was stunned” by this news, in part because the UC-Davis researchers were able to prove that DCM was reversible when cats received the amount of taurine they needed in their diet.2

Of course, most holistic veterinarians and others knowledgeable about veterinary nutrition and who understand the link between diet and disease weren’t surprised. Taurine, which is an amino acid, is found in meat, and cats, as meat-eating obligate carnivores, haven’t developed the ability to make their own taurine.

This means it’s an essential amino acid for cats — they must get it from their diet, and 30 years ago when UC-Davis veterinarians made their discovery, we were well into the age of processed pet food, having made cats (and dogs) almost entirely dependent on humans for their nutrition.

Pet food formulators often guessed at the effects of extensive processing on nutrients. This is especially true for pet food (feed) that blends leftover pieces and parts from the human meat processing industry with other sources of questionable nutrients before they are rendered and cooked at high temperatures, depleting the nutrients that existed before processing, as well as altering the chemical composition of ingredients (and often creating toxic byproducts along the way).

Are Dogs With DCM Taurine-Deficient?
As soon as the UC-Davis researchers published their findings in cats back in the late 1980s, veterinary cardiologists began looking for taurine and other nutrient deficiencies in their canine patients with DCM.

No direct cause-and-effect relationship could be established, since the vast majority of dogs with DCM weren’t taurine-deficient. Taurine is not considered an essential amino acid for dogs because like many other species, their bodies have the metabolic capacity to manufacture taurine from the dietary amino acids cysteine and methionine.

To further confuse the issue, while the disease is inherited in certain breeds, for example, the Doberman Pinscher, in other breeds it is indeed linked to taurine deficiency. In the mid-1990s, UC-Davis conducted a study of American Cocker Spaniels with DCM and found low taurine levels in many of the dogs. The study authors wrote in their abstract:

“We conclude that ACS [American Cocker Spaniels] with DCM are taurine-deficient and are responsive to taurine and carnitine supplementation. Whereas myocardial function did not return to normal in most dogs, it did improve enough to allow discontinuation of cardiovascular drug therapy and to maintain a normal quality of life for months to years.”3

A 2003 study showed that some Newfoundlands had taurine deficiency-related DCM,4 and two years later, another study was published about a family of Golden Retrievers with taurine deficiency and reversible DCM.5 As veterinary cardiologists continued to encounter cases of taurine deficiency-related DCM in dogs, and continued to search for a common link, diet was thought to play a major role in development of the disease.

UC-Davis Is Currently Conducting Research on Taurine Deficiency-Related DCM in Golden Retrievers
The dogs receiving the most focus right now due to escalating rates of DCM related to taurine deficiency are Golden Retrievers. Veterinarian and researcher Dr. Joshua Stern, Chair of the Department of (Veterinary) Cardiology at UC-Davis, and owner of a Golden Retriever Lifetime Study participant named Lira, is looking into the situation.

He’s collecting blood samples and cardiac ultrasound results from Goldens both with DCM and without the disease. Stern agrees diet plays a role, but he also suspects there are genes at work that increase the risk of the condition in the breed.

“I suspect that Golden Retrievers might have something in their genetic make-up that makes them less efficient at making taurine,” Stern told the Morris Animal Foundation. “Couple that with certain diets, and you’ve given them a double hit. If you feed them a diet that has fewer building blocks for taurine or a food component that inhibits this synthesis, they pop up with DCM.”6

Dr. Stern has written an open letter to veterinarians and owners of Goldens that you can read here. In it, he briefly explains his research and recommends a four-step process dog parents can undertake if they believe their pet is at risk for, or is showing signs of DCM:

1. If you believe your dog is at risk for taurine-deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM) and wish to have taurine levels tested, please request a whole blood taurine level be submitted (lithium heparin tube) for analysis. The laboratory I recommend can be found here.

2. If you believe your dog is showing signs of DCM already, please seek an appointment with a board-certified cardiologist to have an echocardiogram and taurine testing obtained simultaneously — do not change foods, do not supplement prior to the appointment.

3. If you receive taurine test results that come back as low, please seek an appointment with a board certified cardiologist to have an echocardiogram performed to determine if your pet needs cardiac medications and the appropriate supplements to be used (DO NOT SUPPLEMENT OR CHANGE FOODS UNTIL YOU HAVE THE CARDIOLOGY EVALUATION COMPLETED).

If you live in close to UC Davis, we can arrange research-funded cardiology evaluations for your dog if you contact at this email address.

4. If you receive cardiologist-confirmed DCM results, please take an image of the food bag, ingredient list and lot number. Please also request a copy of the images from the echocardiogram from your cardiologist (ensure that you have full DICOM image copies on a CD). Please download and complete the full diet history form found at this link.

Please email the image of food bag, a three-generation pedigree, diet history form, copies of the taurine level results and medical record to this email address. A member of our laboratory team will contact you to discuss our thoughts and possibly request additional information, food samples or blood samples for further testing.

Stern wants to get to the bottom of this issue as fast and as medically appropriately as possible. He hopes to publish his initial findings soon and offer scientifically based guidelines for Golden parents regarding diet and DCM. If you’re interested in published research on taurine deficiency and canine DCM, Stern also created a collection of files you can download at this link.

A Particular Brand of Grain-Free Kibble Is Implicated in Some Cases of Diet-Related DCM in Goldens
Although Stern doesn’t discuss specific diets in his letter linked above, according to Dr. Janet Olson of Veterinary Cardiology Specialists:

” … [T]he majority of cases [of taurine deficiency-related DCM in Golden Retrievers] they [Stern and his team] are seeing at UC-Davis are from grain free diets that are high in legumes, like ACANA pork and squash [kibble].”7

Other sources, including a Golden Retriever owner in Mountain View, CA who contacted us, also mention the same food — ACANA Pork and Squash Singles Formula limited ingredient kibble made by Champion Petfoods. According to my Mountain View source, Dr. Stern has been following a group of Goldens with DCM who had been eating the ACANA formula, and a year later, after changes to their diet, taurine supplementation and in some cases, the use of heart medications, all 20+ dogs either fully or significantly recovered.

Consumers who’ve contacted Champion about the issue receive a response stating that taurine isn’t an essential amino acid for dogs, and ACANA and ORIJEN diets are formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles for all life stages. (Since taurine isn’t considered an essential amino acid for dogs, AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles establish no minimum requirement for taurine.)

Champion acknowledges that a taurine deficiency may contribute to the incidence of DCM in genetically susceptible dogs, but states their diets aren’t formulated for dogs with “special needs.”

Are All the Starchy Ingredients in Grain-Free Kibble to Blame?
Since grain-free dry dog food is a relatively new concept, it’s quite possible there’s something about the high-starch (carb) content in these diets that depletes taurine levels and/or makes the taurine less bioavailable. The problem might be related to a chemical reaction (called the Maillard reaction) between taurine and a carbohydrate during the extrusion process that depletes the digestible taurine level in the food.

And while legumes are being singled out as the potential problematic ingredient, grain-free kibble is often higher in both whole carbohydrates and purified starches (e.g., pea starch, potato starch and tapioca starch) than grain-based dry dog food. The higher the starch level in any pet food, the less protein is included.

In a study published in 1996 on the effect of high heat processing of cat food on taurine availability, the researchers noted, “These results suggest that Maillard reaction products promote an enteric flora that favors degradation of taurine and decreases recycling of taurine by the enterohepatic route.”8

Said another way: The byproducts of the chemical reaction between amino acids and sugars (carbs) in dry cat food alter the microbiome (gut bacteria), causing degradation of the taurine in the food, reducing its availability to the cat, and also preventing the taurine from being efficiently recycled by the cat’s body.

An earlier study published in 1990 that looked at taurine levels in a commercial diet that was fed heat-processed to some cats and frozen-preserved to others drew the same conclusion. The researchers stated ” … processing affects the digestive and/or absorptive process in a manner that increases the catabolism of taurine by gastrointestinal microorganisms.”9

Other Factors That Influence the Taurine Content of Pet Food/Feed
A 2003 study published in the Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition looked at taurine concentrations in the ingredients often used in both home prepared and commercial pet diets, as well as how cooking influences taurine content.10

The researchers reported that animal muscle tissue, especially marine animals, contains high levels of taurine, whereas plant-based ingredients contained either low or undetectable amounts. Also, the amount of taurine that remains after cooking is somewhat dependent on the method of food preparation. When an ingredient was cooked in water (e.g., boiling or basting), more taurine was lost unless the water used to cook the food was included with the meal.

Food preparation that minimized water loss (e.g., baking or frying) retained more of the taurine, however, it’s important to note that heat processing in any form destroys anywhere from 50 to 100 percent of taurine present in raw food. In addition, extended periods of storage of processed pet foods, and freezing, thawing and grinding of raw pet food also depletes taurine content.11

Another UC-Davis study published in 2016 evaluated the taurine status of large breed dogs fed low-protein diets (lamb and rice formulas), since they are now known to be at increased risk for taurine deficiency-related DCM.12 The researchers specifically looked at the ingredients rice bran and beet pulp used in many of these diets, and determined that while rice bran didn’t seem to be a primary cause of taurine deficiency, beet pulp may be a culprit.

Both rice bran and beet pulp bind bile acids (bile acids should be recycled, which effectively recycles taurine) in the small intestine, and increase excretion (which is undesirable) because it depletes taurine by interfering with the enterohepatic recycling of taurine-conjugated bile salts and lowers total body taurine levels.

Grain-free/”low-protein” commercial diets are very high in carbohydrates, which displace amino acids. They also contain anti-nutrients (e.g., saponins, trypsin inhibitors, phytates and lectins) that may interfere with taurine absorption. When you add in the high-heat processing used to manufacture kibble, it’s hardly surprising these diets aren’t an adequate source of taurine for many dogs.

How You Can Protect Your Dog
Those of us who are passionate about animal nutrition have been having a painful awakening for some time now about just how nutrient-deficient many dogs and cats are today. The taurine-DCM issue in dogs is yet another example that animals need much higher levels of bioavailable amino acids from a variety of sources than most are consuming.

Unfortunately, some processed pet food advocates are using the link between grain-free dog foods and DCM to try to push pet parents back in the direction of grain-based diets. Don’t be fooled. The problem with grain-free formulas isn’t the lack of grains! It’s the high level of starchy carbohydrates coupled with the extreme high-heat processing methods used to produce these diets.

Until we have much more information on the subject, my current recommendation is to supplement all dogs with high-taurine foods, no matter what type of diet they’re eating. An easy way to do this is to simply mix a can of sardines into your pet’s meal once a week. You can also find the taurine content of many other foods on page two of this study and also in this Raw Feeding Community article.

If you have a breed or breed mix known to be susceptible to DCM (e.g., Golden Retriever, Doberman Pinscher, Cocker Spaniel, Boxer, Great Dane, Scottish Deerhound, Irish Wolfhound, Saint Bernard, Afghan Hound, Dalmatian, Portuguese Water dog, Old English Sheepdog, Newfoundland), especially if you’ve been feeding grain-free kibble, or if for some other reason you’re concerned about your dog’s heart health, I recommend following Dr. Joshua Stern’s four-step process outlined above, starting with a visit to your veterinarian.

[RottieMom]

Here is the run down of the food I have her on.

Victor Active Dog & Puppy Formula Grain-Free Dry Dog Food is formulated using multiple proteins including USA-sourced beef, chicken and pork meals, along with nutritious peas and sweet potatoes in place of grains. This premium-quality food also contains scientifically advanced ingredients that support your pup’s digestive and immune system health. Victor Active Dog & Puppy is an excellent food for dogs that may have allergies to grains or glutens, and can be fed to dogs of all ages.

Key Benefits
Super premium 33% protein grain-free dog food made with high quality protein sources for well balanced nutrition designed specially for active dogs & puppies
75% of protein in this recipe comes from a combination of USA sourced beef, chicken, pork & fish
Recipe features antioxidant-rich sweet potatoes that are high in dietary fiber and great for digestive health
Menhaden fish meal contains DHA, an essential nutrient for growing puppies
Grain-free and gluten free recipe for easy digestion

Nutritional Info
Ingredients
Beef Meal, Sweet Potato, Chicken Meal, Peas, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Pork Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal (source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Egg Product, Flax Seed (source of Omega 3 Fatty Acid), Yeast Culture, Natural Chicken Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Dried Kelp, Salt, Montmorillonite, Tomato Pomace (source of Lycopene), Dried Carrot, Choline Chloride, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Lecithin, Fructooligosaccharide, Folic Acid, Yeast Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract.
Caloric Content
3,640 kcal/kg, 397 kcal/cup
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 33.0% min
Crude Fat 16.0% min
Crude Fiber 3.8% max
Moisture 9.0% max
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 2.8% min
Zinc 150 mg/kg min
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg min
Vitamin E 150 IU/kg min
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.4% min
L-Carnitine 50 mg/kg min
DHA 0.1% min

[Susan]

Hi,
are the foods you have tried have Potato & Sweet Potatoes? as Potato & Sweet potato normally form up stools, look for a limited ingredient single protein kibble that has Potatoes or Sweet Potatos there’s “Wellness Simple” Turkey & Potato, “Natural Balance” LID Potato & Duck… If the pumkin made it runnier then she needs Less Fiber the Natural Balance Potato & Duck is 3% fiber (I Think) I feed “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult kibble…..
You’d have to look at the Wellness Core Puppy formula as they might have Lentils or chickpeas, these ingredient make my boys IBD worse..

Alot of people have success with “Natural balance” Limited Ingredient dry kibble but read the ingredients as some N/B formula’s have Pea Protein, Chickpeas etc

[Susan]

Hi,
Legumes, are Lentils, Beans, Peas, adzuki beans, black beans, soybeans, anasazi beans, fava beans, garbanzo beans (chickpeas), kidney beans and lima beans, legumes also include alfalfa, clover, lupin bean, mesquite, carob, peanuts and tamarind.

I never read or saw anything on the net about potatoes being involved??
maybe it’s cause grain free diets have PEAS & ingredients like Potatoes & Peas or Sweet Potatoes & Peas, so the FDA have mentioned Potatoes cause of the high amount of “peas” ??
Beans are a legume, Potatoes are tubers, and Cucumbers are gourds…
Potatoes always get a bad wrap, in the beginning most grainfree foods had Potatoes & Sweet potatoes & people started saying potatoes cause yeast in dogs, which is untrue. People seem to think starchy carbs cause yeast in dogs when it’s the protein in the carb that the dog is sensitive too that causes yeasty ears, skin & paws or its environment allegies causing the dogs yeast problems, this is when Lentils started to replace the healthy Sweet Potato, Sweet potatos are low Gi, easy to digest & great for dogs with stomach & bowel problems… I like pet foods that have Sweet Potato, Potato, Brown Rice, Sorghum, Millet, fruit & veggies etc…
Here’s “EarthBorn Holistic” formula’s, Ocean Fusion & Adult Vintage both these formula have NO Peas, No Legumes, these formula’s have grains & Sweet potato & Potato…..
https://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/dog-food-formulas/holistic/ocean-fusion

also “Canidae” make their all Life Stages formula’s, there’s “Platinum” for Less Active dogs, weight loss or there’s Canidae’s other ALS formula’s Chicken Meal & Rice and Lamb Meal & Rice have peas but the peas are 6th ingredient..
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-all-life-stages-platinum-dry-formula

It’s best to Rotate between a few different brands this way your dog isn’t eating the same dog food 24/7 & if something is wrong with 1 of the brands you’re feeding then your rotating between different brands hopefully avoiding long term health problems…..

I think these pet food companies read Legumes are healthy (for Humans) mainly eaten by vegetarians for the high protein %, so Pet Food companies thought this is GREAT the meat protein % will also go up when we add Lentils & Chickpeas & we won’t have to use as much meat protein, pet food companies know people will read Lentils, Chickpea’s are healthy for humans & will buy these pet foods for their dogs thinking that Lentils are healthy for their dogs & cats aswell & now we are seeing the results…. It’s not good

About 1-2 yrs ago in the DFA Reviews” section people were posting in the “Zignature” section saying their dogs were having Urinary Tract problems, it was the Lentils causing these problems, 1 lady posted all 4 of her rescued dogs where also having Urinary Tract Problems (UTI’s) & the only food she was feeding them all was Zignature that is very high in Legumes…

[Fran H]

Have a Pomeranian who is currently eating Stella Chewy raw freeze dried chicken patties. She loves it but she has loose stools. Any recommendations on a high quality food that isn’t dry that would help with this?

[Spy Car]

Is it dangerous to eat dry kibble? It may contain harmful bacteria.

It also may (and almost assuredly does) contain ingredients that have been condemned by USDA inspectors and/or comes from dead, dying, diseased, or downed animals.

The laws allow pet-food companies to put dead dogs into dog food kibble for Cripes sake.

Many people get sick after handling kibble every year. Many dogs have been killed due to foul contaminants in pet “food.”

Dogs are not people. They handle raw food very well.

Please stop the nonsense.

Bill

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Spy Car.

[Ryan K]

Hey everyone!
I just wanted to give an update on my dog. He has been on Nulo Turkey & Sweet Potato now for about two weeks and he seems to be doing well. He actually eats it! It has 33% Protein and 18% Fat. I do wish the fat content was higher but for now it’s working out. He finds it palatable and he has not eaten weeds to throw up in 2 weeks now which is HUGE! His stool is solid and well shaped. He seems to have more energy. I am adding a Nulo wet chicken & greenbeans pouch to the dry food once a day to get him going but he still grazes and eats off and on like he used to with the food just sitting dry which is a big deal to me since he had stopped doing that completely. This food seems to taste really good to him and it looks like it’s a great food. I’m very happy with it! Had to check in and update that. If he starts showing any discomfort again I will definitely get him back to my vet for the thyroid testing and possibly some ultrasounds. Thanks for all the ideas everyone!

[Susan]

Hi,
Yes Victor is suppose to be good quality food for the price, I live Australia we dont get Victor we only get Canidae, Wellness, Eagle Pack, Holistic Select etc …

About the raw diet YES that would be heaps better diet for Sweet Pea better then any dry or wet dog food, but I’d avoid any raw till Sweet Pea digestive tract is strong & healthy & best to feed human raw meat, no Pet Shop raw meats, I like the Dehydrated raw where you add warm water, my boy does really well on an Australian made organic free range raw.. She might prefer the dehydrated dog food, like “Honest Kitchen”, “Kiwi Kitchen” dehydrated & “Canidae” has a new raw coated kibble, I always buy Patches kibbles when on special when there’s 25% off certain dog foods & when the use by date is about to expire & the dog food is 50-75% off, I go to Pet Barn & check out all their use by dates lol then tell staff this use by date is about the expire also I rotate between a few different brands..
This is why a dog has a short digestive tract so if any raw meat they eat is off it passes thru their stomach to small bowel very quickly so no bacterica can breed & best to feed human grade raw meat, Kibble also has contains Salmonella & we hold it so always wash your hands after touching a dry kibble….
My cat had tartar on his teeth & my vet recommend I give him raw chicken wings cut in 1/2 x 3 times a week & the raw meaty chicken bones cleaned his teeth, cause he was old his vet didn’t want to risk putting him to sleep to clean his teeth, plus it was very expensive over $450 then another $50 per teeth if removed…

Yes very good idea before you see a vet GET Dog insurance, that’s 1 big mistake I made & I’ve spent alot of money on Patch with all his health problems.

[Susan]

Hi Sweet Pea,
Are you feeding 3-4 smaller meals a day instead of 2 larger meals a day?… Her stomach would be small from not eating, she needs smaller meals feed more frequent till her stomach stretches… breakfast lunch dinner every 5 hours 7am 12pm 5pm & I do a 4th small meal at 730-8pm…
My rescue came to me in very bad condition vet said he was feed a very poor diet if feed at all, I had to strengthen his immune system, vets put him on Protexin probiotic powder, made in bowl 15ml water & he just drank it daily inbetween Breakfast & Lunch, his skin was in very bad condition, he was put on a vet diet for Skin that was high in omega 3, then I learnt he has IBD he couldnt handle the vet diet for skin, this dog was 1 mess & probably why he was dumped at the pound in the first place when owner seen him pooing & weeing blood, it took a good 1-2 yrs to work out his food sensitivities to stop his IBD & Itchy yeasty skin…
He too was feed a wet can food as he didnt like dry kibble either when I first got him, some of these cheaper wet can foods aren’t balanced properly & cause skin problems,
Look for a dry kibble that softens in water quickly, within 20mins, “Canidae Pure” & “Canidae All Life Stages” formula’s go soft within 20mins of soaking them in water…also don’t feed diet thats too high in fat as she mighten be use to high fat diet & is probably why she doesnt like the Hills S/D Active Dry formula as its VERY high in fat, 27%-fat, high fat can cause acid reflux…
My boy gets bad acid reflux aswell, this is when they become fussy when food causes them pain, best if you could cook her meals or 1 of her meals a day for her
add sweet potato, veggies with some chicken, turkey or pork lean white meats, my boy also does well on a lean beef mince, I make rissoles I add 1 kg =2lb lean pork mince or lean beef mince, I add 1 whisked egg, some chopped fresh parsely, some chopped up broccoli, grate 1 small carrot mix all together & make small rissole balls & bake on a foil lined oven tray in oven 20mins, I then boil some peeled cut up sweet potato cool then freeze the sweet potato & rissoles then take out freezer 1 hr before needed, this will be better then wet can food add 1 Krill Oil capsule to her breakfast meal, make sure her diet has 0mega 3 for her skin…or buy the Omega 3, 6 & 9 oil on pump you add to meal, also
“Canidea Pure Wild” & “Pure Sky” is really easy to digest & excellent for skin…
also buy a good shampoo that will put moisture back into her dry skin…. Aloveen shampoo is really good also get some “Paws Dermoscent® Essential 6® spot-on for Dogs” you put the Paws Dermoscent on her skin & it puts moisture back into her dry skin, https://www.blackmores.com.au/products/pet-health/skin-and-coat-health/dermoscent-essential-6-spot-on-for-dogs
Stick to a Routine & in time she’ll get use to stability & come good again but she might have a few health problems, only time will tell, feed healthy foods, foods you eat are better then any process dog foods….

[anonymous]

Does the dog have bad teeth? If so, the first thing I would do is take her to the vet for a professional cleaning.

It doesn’t matter what food you feed her it won’t undo periodontal disease.

Hope this helps. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2013/06/dental-disease-in-dogs-and-cats-does-treatment-improve-health/ excerpt below
“Dental disease, especially periodontal disease, is very common in dogs and cats. Though affected pets rarely show obvious or severe symptoms, periodontal disease is undoubtedly a source of significant discomfort. The only accurate way to diagnose, characterize, and treat periodontal disease is with a thorough oral examination, dental x-rays, and appropriate cleaning and often extraction or endodontic treatment of infected teeth. This can only be accomplished under general anesthesia”.

Use the search engine at that site to see more articles.

Ask her vet if fish oil (approved for veterinary use only) might help the dry skin.
Try bathing with a gentle shampoo, let’s hope it’s stress related, see what the vet thinks.
Did you get pet heath insurance? You may want to consider…….
She may have allergies or some type of skin condition that will need ongoing treatment.