[Ellen D]

Hello –

I have a 3 month old labradoodle puppy. He was 20 lbs a week ago, so I’d think he’s between 20 and 25 now. He’ll be about 65 pounds full grown most likely.

I’m currently feeding him Nature’s Variety Instinct Large Puppy kibble, which I’ve now realized is even too high in calcium for him. He gets some Stella & Chewy meal mixer in with breakfast and I always give him either a scrambled egg, cottage cheese, pumpkin, or some plain meat chunks with dinner – lunch is plain kibble, as that’s at the day care most days. He gets a raw chicken wing or thigh as a treat a couple times a week right now.

I’m going to plead ignorance and admit that I thought I was doing a great thing by getting him “fancy” kibble and only realized a week into having him that there’s much, much more to dog food than dry kibble.

So my dilemma:

–I need to provide him with some form of kibble or dry-fed food for various reasons – the day care can’t mix his food, I do travel from time to time on business so he may need to be boarded 3-4 days per month, and I’m afraid if I stop kibble altogether he might refuse it while I’m away and be a very hungry boy when I return. However, this doesn’t have to continue to be a significant portion of his food. I am happy to keep it just to stuff Kongs/food toys so he stays used to it, but I need to have some on hand. I’ve narrowed this down to – Annamaet Salcha, Avoderm Turkey, or Fromm Beef Frittata.

–I am very interested in a raw diet for him, but I can’t decide what to do here. I’d like to have some freeze-dried product on hand (narrowed down to NRG Maxim and THK Love) for convenience. But ultimately, once he’s down to 2 meals per day from 3, I’d like to go as full raw as I can do – whether it be commercial or homemade or a combo. I have found what I am confident is a very good and versatile homemade recipe (from Ottowa Valley Dog Whisperer – are we allowed to post links here?). My one and only issue with this recipe is I need to sit down and do some maths and figure out what to add in terms of calcium – if I need to alter the recommendation in the recipe based on having a largish breed puppy.

–I am also interested in supplementing with raw meaty bones, as my dog really enjoys his chicken wings and chews them very nicely. Is it okay to just use rmbs as a supplement/treat kind of deal? Could/should I give him one daily or just a few times a week or is it better to just replace a whole meal with them? I would vary the meat/bone source often.

I’m trying to do the right and best thing for my puppy, and I’m 100% open to suggestions and criticism about my plans. I welcome any and all advice, as I’m new to this and my head is just spinning. Added to this is that my wife travels 5 days a week, I work full time outside the home, and we have a 4 year old (human) daughter as well as 2 cats and about 200 fish haha! So I’m a single parent 5 days a week. I’m really at the mercy of convenience. However, I can manage an evening cooking session once a week or a couple times a month and can freeze portion sized amounts. It’s just a matter of figuring out that pesky calcium balance. The recipe calls for powdered eggshell or bone meal. OR I can add whole prey meat to the recipe – I assume I would grind this – and omit the eggshell.

If I were to make the homemade diet, I feel like I would probably feed that for 2 meals per day and continue with kibble for 1 meal. And then when pup’s down to 2 meals, perhaps full homemade with kibble in the kong or as hand fed treats so he stays accustomed to it.

Last question – there doesn’t seem to be a lot of question/issue with feeding raw meaty bones or prey model diets to large breed puppies. Does the nature of a raw diet negate the need to watch the calcium levels so closely?

[Marta W]

SO i was looking into maybe getting my dog bravo raw food blend variety,
its “Chicken, chicken bone, chicken heart, chicken gizzard, chicken liver, green beans, squash, broccoli”, for chicken type.

So my question is why do they say its only intermittent or supplemental??
Dont some of you just feed meat, organ meat and bones without adding any supplements?
Do i really have to add other stuff to it?

[MaggiesDad]

I’m one of the owners of Allprovide, and just wanted to address some of the queries raised about our products!
Firstly, I should state that I am currently away from the office and so do not have all the necessary information to hand regarding percentages, AAFCO guidelines etc. However, should anyone have any specific questions about these (or anything else) please do call us! We are always happy to talk about raw feeding, why we came in to this business and our experiences.
Regarding the mixing of proteins, we do intend to eventually bring out more single protein source foods, but as a new company we felt it best to start with a good all round range of various proteins to ensure that any dog is receiving all it needs from the start. Too many people are put off raw feeding by the fear of not providing enough of everything or supplementation, so one reason we use mixed proteins is to take away this concern. The other reason of course is that we have to meet the AAFCO guidelines for “complete” foods, and as we do not use ground bone we use poultry bone in our beef product to ensure sufficient calcium/phosphorus – and beef bones are extremely hard to grind in any event and can damage our machinery!
We do only use human grade ingredients, and frequently take home for ourselves the chicken we use in the dog food, as well as the vegetables which are restaurant quality. Our meat is all USA raised, and our chickens are hormone free – it is illegal to use hormones in poultry production. The issue of antibiotics is slightly different however. We care for all animals, and the farms we use will only ever give antibiotics to a sick bird, under vet guidance and in strict accordance with regulations. We would not want any animal to suffer illness unnecessarily, and to deprive medical treatment could be seen as inhuman. Any antibiotic is in any event not usually one given to humans, and is out of their system within days so do not make it in to the food chain.
I know someone posted that is something looks too good to be true, it usually is – but please be assured that we doing everything in our power to produce the best food possible for our dogs. We do not cut corners, use only the best ingredients, and are trying to put the convenience back in to raw feeding to encourage more to give it a go. If you read Maggie’s story on our website, you will see that we care passionately about our dogs (I have four, all shapes and sizes) and we want everyone to see the difference raw can make to their dogs!
Anyone is more that welcome to come by the factory (based in Norcross, GA) as we have always had an open door policy – we really do have nothing to hide. You can also buy direct from us there.
If I’ve missed out any concerns, or anyone has more questions please do call us in the office!

[Jamie K]

Hi everyone!

I was checking out some other information on the site when I saw this post under recent topics. I figured I’d chime in since I give my two girls bully sticks on the regular. They absolutely love them, and yes it is true they do smell awful, but I cannot deny them one of their simple doggie pleasures! I only buy them from bestbullysticks.com and have been for about 2 years now. Not only do they have the bully sticks, but sooo many other natural dog bones and chews. Just some of the many I have purchased: bison cartilage, beef tendons, cow, lamb, & bison ears, bull wrinkles, moo snouts, marrow, knuckle, & femur bones. Aside from beef chews they have; bison,chicken,lamb,venison,pork and a few more. My dogs have never once gotten sick from anything I have purchased from them. I highly recommend their products. Great quality and seem to be cheaper than most that carry them. I ran out one time and grabbed a 5 pack at the grocery store of a well known brand, I cannot remember the name at the moment, and both my girls had diarrhea for most of the night. Sorry for the lengthy review, but I just wanted pass along the info because as you know a lot of products made for dogs these days are loaded with crap, and it’s hard to find quality products from a trusted brand. Hope this helps with anyone new to buying bully sticks!!

[losul]

Allprovide looks like (or at least initially) it could be a good, very economical food option 2 feed on occaison. The proteins are mixed in the varieties. Not a big deal for me though, for some might be. The poultry varieties all use beef organs, which is good really, they are more nutritious than chicken organs, probably why they do that. The beef variety uses chicken bones. And all the varieties appear to be high in fat as in the case with so many commercial raw diets. But alot of the numbers don’t numbers seem 2 jive either, and calories per 100grams? The first thing thats fairly easy 2 pick out is the inverted calcium phosphorus ratio in the turkey variety. I think it’s going to fall short in some of the numbers, but trying to reconcile these numbers gives me such a big headache even trying, i give up. Aimee’s is great with processing the numbers, maybe she would see this and lend a hand to it?

Personally, the only variety that I would be interested tin is the puppy blend, but not for a puppy, for my adult. It has 2 major proteins, chicken and beef heart, and the fat levels are lower, or should be.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by losul.

[JPStPierre]

For 2 years now I have been feeding a home made “natural” diet.
We have 6 dogs.A bassador,Great dane,Pyrennees,Boxer,Jack Russell and Kelpie.
Every day the batch consists of a 5 pound chicken ground bones and all.Frozen veggies ,eggs and yogurt in a blender w liver added in.
This yields 10 pounds per day.We feed twice a day.1 pound ea meal for the bigger dogs.3/4 pound per meal for the other 4 dogs.
They used to have health problems while on dry.We did feed them premium food.
My lawn was a minefield of undigested food.They rarely had enthusiasm for meals.
Now when I start to grind they all get very excited.
We have also noticed that it actually costs us less doing this.
Even if it cost more I would still do this.

Wish you all well! Take care and enjoy your companions.All ours are rescues.

[InkedMarie]

DF: I’d feed the Darwins. Most raw feeders I know would feed freezer burned meat so you’re good to go.

Re; bones; beef rib bones from ReelRawDog are my fave so far. I have 30 pounds of bones coming next week, free shipping.

[DogFoodie]

My favorite place for bones is My Pet Carnivore. https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?lang=en

I’m on a local delivery route and I can get as much as I want for a $10 handling fee.

I just remembered the only raw that Sam really loves is tripe. I’ve got several containers of that in the freezer also. I’ve tried lightly cooking the Darwin’s for him, but would rather not. I’m going to start thawing some raw tonight. I WILL use up that Darwin’s one way or another!

Sorry for the hijack, Marie! 🙂

[crazy4cats]

DF- LOL! I like to feed both my dogs the same thing also. I just feed one of them a little more than the other. They already always think the other one may have something better! You could always thaw it out and give it a sniff to see what you think. I think it still would be fine. Would Sam eat it if you cooked it a bit? I have only used NW Naturals and NVI frozen nuggets as toppers a few days a week and mine really like them. I’ve thought about ordering the introductory offer as it is a good price. But, I would only feed as toppers as it is way too expensive for our budget for anything more than that. I think I would cancel after my first order and then I would feel guilty. But, their bones do look interesting. None of the stores that I go to offer the rib bones so I’ve never tried them. Well, I mean my dogs have never tried them. LOL! Let me know what you decide.

[DogFoodie]

Sam, my Golden, won’t eat it. He’s OK with a for a meal (although it’s the one thing he won’t clean his bowl of) and then after that, he won’t touch it at a subsequent meal. Sniff. Walk away. He likes some raw, meaty bones, but just doesn’t get into eating raw. He prefers kibble with toppers.

Bella, my Cavalier, will eat the Darwin’s, but I feel bad giving it to her and not him – even though he doesn’t like it. I should’ve fed it to her anyway.

Then, there’s also that part of me that says, it’s been in the freezer too long and isn’t good anymore.

Should I still use it?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Marie-
I just checked out their site. The introductory offer looks interesting. It looks to me like shipping is free on future orders only if you live in either the Seattle or Portland area. I’m going to look at it again tomorrow and think about placing an order for their bones. Especially if it eligible for free shipping.

[Trout-lily]

Hi all
As if two rounds of giardia wasn’t enough, our 1 year old Berner has started to chew the wood trim in the room we’re keeping her in during the day. Deer antlers, dried sweet potatoe wedges, nylabones, Kong treat blends, and long walks don’t seem to keep our darling from destroying the trim. I don’t want to go the rawhid route, but it seems it’s a texture thing with her. My husband treatens to put her back in the crate but she is 75lbs and is completely done with potty training. Any advice on what to give her to occupy her time?

Thanks!

[Susan]

Hi Anne, you write that your your Lab mix seems to get a upset stomach for no reason …. it sounds like this has happened before….your boy may have IBS or IBD, he needs to stay on just 1 diet as certain foods may be irritating his bowel, either thru food sensitivities or food allergies, Rice is a old myth now & it doesn’t work for all dogs as the small pieces of boiled rice can irritate the bowel getting caught in pockets of the bowel, boiled mashed potatoes is best….

Feed him a limited ingredient kibble like “Natural Balance” Kangaroo & Potato or the Rabbit or the Duck look at the ingredients & pick the one with the least ingredients as some of the limited ingredient have peas …there’s also California Natural” Lamb & Rice with just 4 ingredients just keep him on the limited ingredient kibble for a good 2-3 months, let the bowel heal, then only if his poos have been firm maybe give a food or treat that is low in FAT, no bones if that treat never gave him diarrhea stick with thought treat….there could be just 1 ingredient in his kibble that he may have an intolerance too & he may start having sloppy poos from 1-21 days…my boy goes really well on a new kibble then about the 5-6 day his poos start being slop then if I keep feeding it, he has diarrhea…..
Here’s 2 groups on face Book called “Dogs With Inflammatory Bowel Disorder” Or “Dog Allergy International group” for support & more info in Files for foods….if this does keep happening, if you keep letting this happen, he can have more problems as he gets older.. so the problem needs to be fixed while he’s still young…

[crazy4cats]

Hi Anne C-
It is very hard to say what may have caused the diarrhea, but my guess would also be the lamb bones. Especially if he was fine fine up until you gave the bones to him. Is it the first time he had the bones? Did they have marrow in them? Just like L M mentioned, when I give my dogs marrow bones, they will have loose stools after because the marrow is very high in fat.

After an episode of diarrhea, it is best not to feed the dog for a while to let their tummy rest. Here is a website that may be helpful. It gives several tips on digestive issues: http://www.dogaware.com/health/digestive.html

I have two 3 1/2 year old lab mix dogs. They have the same issue every now and then and sometimes I never know what they got into. They are very naughty! LOL!

In fact, I just had it happen and I fed them very overcooked mushy white rice with lots of water and boiled chicken breast with some plain canned pumpkin for a few meals. I am now transitioning back to their normal food and adding some Perfect Form made by the Honest Kitchen and they are doing much better.

Write back and let us know how your dog is doing. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Could be the lamb bones? I know when I give my dogs a frozen beef marrow bone, they often have loose stools….or maybe the new food doesn’t agree with him.

Be careful with those bones, my poodle mix had trouble digesting the ground up bone, she had abdominal pain, shivering. X-ray showed calcified material in her stomach and colon, luckily it passed on it’s own. So, I don’t give them bones very often anymore and I take them away before they start grinding down the bone material and eating it.

[anne c]

My 3 year old lab mix, seems to get an upset stomach for no reason. I don’t know if he ate something he wasn’t supposed or if it is the food. I switched to pioneer dog food about 3 weeks ago. I also gave him theses natural frozen lamb bones which I ahd heard were great for dogs. He was fine up until yesterday. He has diarrhea, with no mucus, just pudding like. Do you think its the dog food? I tried to give him some white rice last night, but midway through eating he had to run out and go poop. It was all mushy!
Any thought or suggestions would be appreciated.

[Mgt Terry D]

I have used Natures Domain for years without any problems in any of my dogs.
Would switch occasionally for variety. Fed both dry and canned and my dogs today do the happy dance when I give them Kirkland dog bones.

I was in touch with Costco and know a few people that work for them…when this rumor came out Costco issued a memo to all stores explaining there was nothing wrong with the food or the manufacturing Diamond plant.
Inspections where made and they where given a high rating ….no issues.
Costco will also take back any product for any reason and reimburse the member on the spot….The person who found mold on the dog bones should have returned them..that could have been caused by moisture on the floor of Costco or in the home .

[Jennifer H]

I would stick with Fromm. Taste of the Wild is manufactured by Diamond, and while the food is good, the company is pretty shady and has a long history of recalls. A lot of people here recommend a rotational diet with kibble, there’s a few threads on it around you may be interested in 🙂

As for feeding raw. I personally wouldn’t mix them in the same meal, as this can give some dogs digestive upset. I would feed one meal as kibble, and one meal as raw. For raw, you want to feed him 2% of his body weight per day. So if you’re only feeding one meal of raw, cut that number in half. So since he is 100~lbs, he would need 2 lbs of food per day. Since he is only getting 1 meal a day of raw, that would be 1lb of food at his mealtime.

Start him out slow with just poultry for awhile to get his tummy used to it. Then you can gradually start introducing other meats like beef, pork, etc and organs, which are an important part of the diet. When feeding something bony like a turkey neck, add in some nice meaty meat like chicken breast or hearts (about half the weight of the bones worth) to cut the calcium and prevent constipation.

I currently feed my dog kibble in the morning and raw at night (next week we make the switch to full raw!!) and he does well on it.

For chews, you can try giving him a frozen turkey neck and let him work on that. It can keep a dog busy for hours.

You could also look into antlers, although I know some people have reservations over them being too hard.

This is a good thread to read to find some information on raw food – /forums/topic/menus/

[C L]

Rhonda, I’m new to raw myself. What I see people do is to feed their dog in a space that’s easy to clean up, so a tiled area. You can feed your dog outside. You can provide a piece of linoleum for your dog to consume raw on it. You have to teach your dog to stay on it. Some put down a cloth, or you can use a drop cloth (plastic). It is a messy thing to feed raw. I’ve seen people feed their dogs in a large wire crate.

You can take a bone or meat away and refrigerate it for another day. I’ve never seen anyone address if they bury it.

Depending on the size of your dogs, some bones are more appropriate than others. People tend to feed bones that can be consumed. One that are hard are the ones that a dog can chip/break a tooth on, so many serve chicken. Where ever you feed your dog, you need to watch your dog consume the bone. They can choke. You have to be ready for that. I don’t see it mentioned on my raw site, but Capri got the keel bone of a chicken breast stuck in her mouth. I looked over and she was not moving. I removed it and gave her a few pressure compressions, because she looked like she wasn’t breathing, then she was okay. No one talks about that, so it’s something to be aware of and that they can choke.

I belong to a raw FB page called Raw Feeding. You can join and ask questions there. They have files on the page that they want you to read up on first, because they can answer questions (they’re articles). I’m still learning.

Something that they do that I didn’t learn right away is “trading up”. If your dog is at the end of their piece of meat or bone and you think they will gulp it, you offer them something they like better to get it away from them.

[Rhonda L]

New dog… new to raw… new to healthy bone options… oh, mercy! So much to learn. Thank goodness for you all. I’ve ordered Darwin’s pre-prepared raw food so we can get going while I’m learning. When feeding a raw bone, do you take your dogs outside? (Trying to chill about it, but struggling with the idea of raw bones being smooshed all over the floor.) If they haven’t eaten it all in a certain amount of time, do you remove it? If they bury it, do you just leave it for a future discovery? I always thought I was a semi-intelligent person — may have just been kidding myself — but this raw diet / bone business has had me reading for days, and feeling sadly under-informed. Still, determined to figure it out. My sweet rescue pup deserves a little dinner love.

[Rebecca L]

I’m glad also. I was too tricked by these treats stating they were made in the USA but really only packaged here. Our Burkly is only 6 and had a couple of seizures we took him to the vet and they said he had epilepsy and his organs looked fine after blood tests. Thank God he must not have eaten enough of this crap to kill him. You can’t trust these greedy corporations!

Anyone have any suggestions as to what small treat to give our yorkie pooh he takes an allergy pill every day. Are the mini Milkbones brand even safe?

[pugmomsandy]

Tucker’s uses USDA materials and a USDA facility (tuckersbones.com). Also K9 Kraving is USDA approved (K-9kraving.com). These are raw foods. Weruva Human Style canned food is made in a human food factory (weruva.com).

[InkedMarie]

AJ A,
look at Hare Today and Reel Raw Dog. Both offer grinds (no produce) and whole meats and bones. It’s what I buy for raw.

[AJ A]

Thanks for all your opinions and experiences, I am glad I received replies.
I won’t ever go back to kibble EVER.
And I don’t run to the Vet all the time. I am organic myself since 15 yrs and haven’t seen a doctor since. Not even once!
I use common sense and needed to see if my case was only happening to my pup. As I can see it is definitely the water in the meat. Thats why they dont need to drink as much water as they do with kibble. Today I controlled a little the water intake and he pees less often, but still bigger spots than before and specially after feeding the chicken. He is doing just fine and has top energy, his coat started shining and it is growing faster than it was 1 month ago.
Before I switched to raw I did a deep education to be prepared, asking raw feeding breeders all over from Australia to Germany, checked everything online and started to understand that raw diet should not contain veggies neither grains like the BARF diet.. Wolves dont get a complete balanced diet everyday, neither do we and certainly they wont be searching for carrots, spinach and grains in their habitat. They receive the fermented enzymes from the digested food of their prey’s tripe, thats the good stuff, thats what they will eat first, thats where lots of balanced nutrients are.
When starting a raw diet with puppies (especially small breed) you best start with chicken, because low fat and easier digested than ground beef. Because I tried both, beef (grass fed 95%lean) and chicken. He regurgitated the whole ground beef everytime he ate it. He never did with the chicken. The wing helps cleaning his teeth and he gets supplements from the core of the bone and calcium.1 egg a week for breakfast. I give bone meal since he does not yet get enough bones in his food yet. Once he is used to the chicken and wings/necks I will start to join some liver and heart and green tripe little by little to not upset his digestion. Than we will do the same with duck, lamb and rabbit including organ and muscle meat as well. Of course a meaty bone everyday or 3 times a week.
Once established his likes than we can start feeding 1 day chicken, next duck and so on. I forgot the fish. Some fresh fish once a week is important as well.
I think probiotics , enzymes and clay are a must have in the kitchen. So is ionic silver and therapeutic grade essential oils like geranium, peppermint, frankincense and lemon. When they get lose stool some clay with enzymes/probiotics and diarrhea is cleared.
I use ionic silver to disinfect drinking water, once in a while internal against parasites and to clear my Shih Tzu’s eyes (14yrs). He suffers dry eyes and since he is on raw diet as well since 2 weeks his dry eye symptoms are already totally gone!! Yeahhhh! Now I hope to see changes in his coat like color and softness. His constant fear should disappear as well and his appetite should get better and better. I really hope to gain some more years of his company. I love him so much and hope we can gain back as much health as he has lost due to those bad kibble diet. He lost some of his hair on his back and I truly hope the high protein intake will fix most of his problems.
I stopped using vaccines on my Shih Tzu since 10yrs, neither I believe in spaying/neuter dogs. My pup received vaccines from her Vet, he won’t ever receive any other vaccines in his life. I dont believe it does any good, not for pets and neither for humans. Build up a healthy immune system and eat organic food and you will be fine!!! Same for dogs. THEY ARE DOGS NOT HUMANS!!! THEY DESERVE TO EAT HOW NATURE DESIGNED THEM TO.

[RebeccaRose]

She is starting to refuse the new Wellness Healthy Weight now. I honestly can’t tell if it’s illness or picky eating… But I suspect the latter. Because she is back to her old self in all other ways… Playing and pooping.

I really need some recommendations on a low fat commercial kibble. I don’t mind trying canned but do not want to do that exclusively.

This morning the only way I could get her to eat was to spoon one plastic spoonful of chicken broth over the kibble. When I did that she ate it right up. It was broth from a can… Low sodium. I know people say not to give them commercial chicken broth only homemade but I never buy chicken with bones so this would be challenging for me. I’ve only done the broth a few times it is not a regular thing.

The deal is, a lot of people say of a picky eater… Just take the food up & they’ll eat later. Well I can’t do that with her because she will get sick & start throwing up. And then it starts a vicious cycle of not wanting to eat because of nausea & the longer she goes without eating the sicker she gets.

I’m going to abandon Wellness, she just doesn’t seem to like them anymore. I don’t know where to look next though. I looked at Halo, but their healthy weight food for small dogs had a min of 12% fat…. That’s not low fat.

[Susan]

Hi Sally, I’d say who ever owned her before you has let her lick human plates & bowls & has probably feed her left overs from their plate, she probably even had a biscuit dipped in coffee, When I first rescued Patch he wouldn’t eat kibble either but he has health problems, IBD, kibble gives him pain, he too can’t eat water foods like stews, he brings them back up…..
Your girl may never eat kibble or dog tin foods, she has had a taste of good food fresh human food, If I owned her I would be googling some easy to make dog recipes, then make the meal all up & then you freeze them in little containers & take out the night before & put in fridge…there’s even places that cook meals for dogs, the ladies on this group may know some names of home cooked meals for dogs in America as I’m in Australia, I did have the name of a few in America but I can’t find the links..
I get 1 kilo turkey breast mince (grounded) mix in 1 egg & I make little bite size rissoles, you roll the turkey breast mince into little bite size balls & put the little balls on a baking tray, they bake in about 15mins, then I freeze them all, they thaw in about 15-20mins when left out on bench, you can feed the turkey rissoles as treats or I put some in the blender add some boiled pumkin that I have thawed out & some sweet potates that I have also thawed out…once a fortnight I boil half a butternut pumkin cut into pieces & freeze, I also freeze sweet potato, I have boiled rice frozen in the freezer aswell…there’s a few cook books that are balanced diets & real easy to make, google Lew Olson, Raw & Natural Nutrition for Dogs her book cost about $12 online, it has real easy recipes too follow & are balanced…I cooked for my last dog & I never balanced her meals & she was so healthy, shinny coat, she had all her teeth, her teeth were still nice & white at the age on ten, I never ever gave her any bones or kibbles, so that’s not true how kibble cleans a dogs teeth…

[Gloria K]

Mickey is a 13 pound terrier mix who also gets a treat whenever he comes in from doing his business or going with me in the car to run errands, grocery shop etc. I make all of his food including his treats-biscuits, cookies- but he goes absolutely crazy over the simple ones like cooked string beans and carrot slices. I just simmer them in a little water or broth and sometimes after I drain the veggies I brush them with a little bacon grease. It only takes about a half teaspoon to flavor the entire batch. Very easy to make, very inexpensive, healthy and low calorie too. They keep in the refrigerator for a week or you can freeze them on a cookie sheet and give them to Bella frozen.
And I bought a new area rug two weeks ago and decided t Mickey was going to have his own place mat so to speak so I bought a small bathroom rug in the same color and that’s where he keeps his treats and bones so my area rug stays clean.

[theBCnut]

I believe the canned has bones in it, so it would not need calcium added, but watch the sodium levels on canned salmon. Also remember that salmon, as one of the longer lived fish, is more likely to have heavy metals in it or be affected by Fukashima, so don’t feed it too often.

[theBCnut]

Sardines have bones included, so for salmon, you have to add a calcium supplement.

[Anonymous]

http://www.homeovet.net/dynamic/php/downloads/dog-c8470f2c75dbe4b683205c3919ee2310/dog_diet_complete.pdf
“Natural Diet for Dogs: Guidelines for Optimal Nutrition”

I am leery of all bones, but I still give my dog a frozen raw beef marrow bone as a treat occasionally…with caution.
For dental, I brush their teeth every evening, it helps.

[Anonymous]

From what I understand dogs should never be fed cooked bones of any kind.
You can get in enough trouble with the raw. I had to take my poodle to the emergency place a while back due to vomiting and abdominal pain. She would work on a frozen beef marrow bone and grind the bone into small particles and consume.
Well, the x-ray showed calcified material in her colon and stomach that had solidified and she was having difficulty passing. Luckily she did pass them on her own, had to take a pain med and Pepcid for a few days.
My point is, that raw bones are not a good idea for all dogs. I still let her enjoy a small frozen raw beef marrow bone occasionally, but I take it away from her before she gets to the nitty gritty. My other dogs, the same thing, I don’t give them as often as I used to.
But cooked bones, NEVER.
PS: I tried raw but quickly realized it would be best to use fresh killed organic meat…which I can’t afford.
So I slightly cook their food (minus the bone) and combine with a high grade kibble. I have posted a link to the natural diet (written by a vet) it is in some of my other posts, if you are interested.

[Eugene L]

Thanks for the comments.
The problem i am facing is, as Akari said, storage space in freezer.
I live in Hong Kong, our apartments are tiny and your master bedroom might be my whole apartment. So for BARF i have to go shopping for food every 3days or so.
That’s why i want to dehydrate all the meat, bones and organs and mill it down for easy storage. As those material have not go thru those immense heat like the kibble does so the nutrient is preserved and i know the source of the material.
I add pumpkin is just for helping my puppy as he always have loose poo.

[Akari_32]

Hey girl! No, I do not use a premix any more. SSLL going off the market (however temporarily) is what finally convinced me to dive in and do balanced raw. I’m happy I did. Bentley loves it, and he eats even less than he did on SSLL. The best thing is I can get away with buying chicken parts because the excess bones I just remove and freeze for later when something like pork tenderloin goes on sale and I need it 🙂 Makes deal shopping really worth while! Publix always has leg quarters for $1.49/lb when you buy 4 lb or more.

[Akari_32]

It’s very easy to ensure your dog gets a proper diet on a raw diet. You just have to do the calculations right. Better yet, each and every meal does not have to completely balanced. The concept is to balance over time. I makes life much simpler. For example, if I were to balance each and every meal for my 7.8 pound dog, he would get less than one half of an ounce of bone at every meal. He’d totally choke on that (not the brightest of creatures)! Instead, he gets a decent sized chicken bone a few days a week.

Also, I feel it’s hard to ensure they are getting everything by using veggies rather than organs. Dogs to not fully digest plant matter, even when it’s cooked and puréed, but they do digest the organs, which is where they get all of their neccessary vitamins and minerals.

(Most) Dogs are perfectly capable of handling “questionable” meat. Their stomach acid has such a low ph that not much can survive in there. I know many raw feeders up north bring carcasses into their yards and let their dogs eat off of it until all eatable parts are gone. There is where knowing your dog comes in, and knowing what they can handle and what they like.

The only down side I find to making up raw meals for my dog and cat is the freezer space. We do not have the room available for even a small freezer, so the humans and animals share a freezer. This isn’t a problem with most people, though.

The problem with what you are suggesting is that your idea is really not that much better than kibble. Dogs to not need rice, or pumpkin, or any veggies. Sure many dogs like these things, but they are of little value as far as nutrition goes. If you were to just dehydrate meat and organs, that would be different. So long as bones were also offered, that is. Bones are neccessary because they provide glucosamine and calcium, among other things. They can be replaced with bone meal, egg shell, or a calcium suppliment, but then you loose the added “work out” and teeth cleaning benefit when the dog chews them. Also, unpreserved dehydrated meat does go bad, and would need to frozen and used from the fridge. So there’s still that.

It is an interesting idea, you just aren’t quite looking at the whole picture. 🙂

[Eugene L]

Hi guys,

This is my first post. Greetings to all.

I have an Akita which have a pretty sensitive stomach. We have tried some “high range” dog food and BARF. There are some pros and cons between the two.

commercial dog food : consistent nutrition amount, easy to feed and storage. But you have no control on the source of the raw product or additive.

BARF : total control of the source and raw product. But making consistent nutrition value each meal is not easy, feeding is more messy and storage is a huge problem as all the cooking, freezing, thawing creates complication on contamination and rotting. Bones are sometimes not recommended if your puppy do not chew properly.

I am thinking of a solution that have the best of both world.
First Dehydrating the meat, bone and veg product that rots easily. Then mill them to fine grains so each meal can be a cup of meal mix and 1/4 cup of veg fix or something like that. mix the powder with rice or pumpkin puree when feeding. Is it a good idea?

So comparing to BARF, no more freezing and thawing, you just need some rice/pumpkin available which is much more easier. Less chance of contamination as very low water content and can be easily stored. All we need to do is dehydrating a large batch of ingredient and milling them like each month.

Any thoughts on that?

[Susan]

Hi Mike, peanut butter TOTW marrow bones these are all HIGH in fat, Now that you know all this, you must keep her fat LOW Dogs can die from Pancreatitis….There’s a really good group on yahoo called “Dogpancreatitis” join the group, you will learn so much & there’s a few boxers in the group…. a few ladies in that group feed “Canine Cavier” Special Needs fat is 9% “Honest Kitchen” Zeal 8.5% fat….
you must stay 10% & under in fat for kibble, if you feed wet tin food stay 2% & under, wet is better for Pancreatitis, I even had to lower the Protein cause of acid reflux, some dogs with Pancreatitis will get Acid Reflux, being on a lower fat diet they will start to lose weight so increase the feed, I use to feed wet food for Breakfast then Kibble for lunch & dinner, to keep the weight on… You’ll work it out, Please read the Fat% in everything you put in Kolbies mouth,…
Love Boxers, I lost my girl 3 years ago to Mast Cell Tumors, so watch those lumps, You see a lump, Please have it tested, I didn’t…..

[Bobby dog]

Hi Tammy:
Large and giant breed dogs have special nutritional needs. Keep your puppy lean and avoid over exercising because his bones and joints are still developing. Check out this article:
/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

Here’s a link to the large and giant breed puppy forum. Read at least the first three or four pages (it’s a huge thread now) and the links to the articles posted on the first page.
/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

On this page you will find a link to a document of recommended foods. If you choose a food from this list I suggest calling the manufacturer to confirm the calcium % is still within the recommended parameters; the list has not been updated recently. Look for a post dated July 23, 2013 at 1:51 pm:
/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/page/15/

For a current list of approved foods for large and giant breed puppies you can also join the Dog Food Advisors Editors Choice.

Good luck with your lucky puppy!

[Anonymous]

I like Wysong, but my dog that has a sensitive stomach seems to do the best on Nutrisca dry (fish) with a little water added and a bite of cooked chicken or lean meat.
She has never been diagnosed with pancreatitis, however, she has allergies and can’t tolerate frozen beef marrow bones either. Consider what the homeopathic vets have to say too. http://www.vitalanimal.com

[Mike A]

Hi everybody, my name is Mike and Im an owner of a almost 3 year old Boxer. I’ve come here for advise on how to deal with pancreatitis.

So, as I mentioned before I have a Boxer named Kolbie and shes 3 years old and weighs in about 65 pounds. She has had an issue with an upset tummy, arched up back, drueling, and wont eat from time to time the past year or so. It always seemed to clear up by days end so we never thought too much of it and it didnt happen very often. As of late, the instances increased and she has since been diagnosed with pancreatitis. We were feeding her Taste of the Wild, and Mother Hubbard peanut butter flavored treats. We would also put peanut butter in her kong for her as an extra treat also and this was a daily thing. I would also give her marrow bones to chew on and have since learned the marrow is high in fat.
She has been on Purina HA now for almost 6 weeks as prescribed by our vet and we have cut out all the extra stuff and the pancreatitis episodes have stopped. I have been adding boiled chicken and rice to the food to make it more appetizing for her. I have noticed since being on the food she has lost about 3 pounds, her coat has dulled and she seems to be shedding more. I would like to get her off this food and back to a better diet but I have no idea where to start. A raw diet is not possible for me to do on a daily basis so I would like to feed her a high quality kibble and I dont mind adding boiled chicken and rice to it if thats a good thing to do.
I was going to put her back on TOTW and nix all the other fatty stuff but after reading the bad reviews from forum members I am reluctant. So I guess what I am getting at is I need some help to choose a quality food and treat to keep my pup healthy and happy.
Thanks for reading and I’ll be happy for any advise and suggestions.

[John M]

in case nobody knows this apparently appears to be a thing and appears to be superior to all of these things.

http://www.rawmeatybones.com/petowners/feedyourdogrmb.php

okay ya do know
/forums/topic/eating-raw-meaty-bones/

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by John M.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Kevin-
So far treats have not been rated on this site. I too have dogs that like to gnaw. Bully sticks are their favorite. My dogs each get one 6 inch bully per week. I have to attach them to vice grips to make sure they are not swallowed. I have 80lb golden labs. I mostly buy the Cadet brand at Costco with no issues for the last 3 years. If Costco is out, I have bought them from best bullysticks.com.
I also give them large raw marrow bones, pig ears, and most recently Fish beams from THK occasionally.
Another thing they enjoy is when we prepare a kong for them. You can stuff one with canned food, pumpkin, wet kibble or any combination of ingredients they like and then freeze it. This is the most time consuming chew toy I’ve come up with for them. Unfortunately, I rarely take the time to do it. Lol! 🙂
I hope you get some ideas that work for you.

[Linda M]

I have a 14 y/o bRat Terrier whose has been on Stella & Chewy’s frozen patties since late last summer. Since switching her to raw, her Trygycerides have been rising, but I was alarmed when they doubled on her last blood panel (they are now at 2200). The rest of her blood panel is normal, aside from an elevated Liver ALP (now at 174…but that is down from 600 about 4 years ago, thanks to a daily dose of Denamarin).

Her weight fluctuates between 18 and 20 pounds. She is sedentary for the most part (sleeps most of the day while we are working), but otherwise has tons of energy and always happy to go for walks (thankful that Chicago weather is finally breaking and we can get some exercise again).

She has always had a heart murmur (around a Grade 2 for most of her life)…about 3 years ago we were told it was a 3 borderline 4…last summer she started coughing and the vet told us her murmur was a 4 borderline 5 and she was in the early stages of Congestive Heart Failure. She was put on a daily dose of Enalapril (2.5mg twice per day) and Vetmedin (5 mg. per day split into two doses). That was also when we switched her to a raw diet, and within weeks her cough disappeared. That was last September…at her visit this past week, she no longer shows any signs of CHF and her murmur is now at a 2 borderline 3…the vet is shocked and amazed that her murmur has improved and told us that he wouldn’t believe us if hadn’t seen it for himself…he says murmurs NEVER improve. He is skeptical of the raw food, however, I attribute her improvement to the change in diet more than anything (not to say the meds haven’t helped…I have no doubt they have).

This is a dog who shed like crazy until switching her to Raw – now she barely loses any hair and her coat is thick and shiny. The muscle mass along her spine was deteriorating (you could see her pointy spine bones sticking up along her back) and she was developing spondylosis…with a “clicking” sound that you could also feel along her spine. After a month on raw, her bones no longer protruded through her back and now she can once again race up & down the stairs and on the furniture (to my dismay)…the clicking is gone. Raw had done wonders for her health, and I’m sold on it being the best for her.

She is, however, sensitive to birds…no chicken, duck, pheasant or we start dealing with itching along her lips and paws that quickly devolves into infections. We have been rotating her on beef, venison, lamb & rabbit (tho I have my concerns about the rabbit being an issue with her lip…so lately I’ve avoided feeding it to her).

She is fed strictly 2 1/2 small patties of Stella & Chewy’s twice per day, 12 hrs apart…and her only treats are carrot chips. I keep a bag of Taste of the Wild Lamb on hand…I leave handfuls of them in her bowl to eat at her leisure if she get’s hungry between meals, but she rarely touches it (unless I’m late with a feeding).

Because of her high triglycerides, my vet would like to get her onto a lower fat diet. He suggested kibbles & prescription kibbles…but I will not go down that road again…Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein nearly brought her to the brink of a malnourished death prior to Raw…no way I will go back.

So…any suggestions on how to lower the fat content while still keeping her on raw and not feeding any “crap” foods?

My working theory is to use SOJOS grain-free fruit & veggie mix (the kind you rehydrate with water) and combine that with 1 Stella & Chewys patty per day (half 1.5 oz patty at each feeding). I am having a difficult time working out how much of each to feed her while keeping the fat under 15%, the protein and fiber in a higher range, and the calorie amounts appropriate for her size/age & slower-pace lifestyle. Would love to see all of her blood panel numbers in the normal range at her next test…not just for her sake, but to prove to the vet how beneficial this raw diet has been.

ANY suggestions or help would be GREATLY appreciated!!

• This topic was modified 11 years ago by Linda M.
• This topic was modified 11 years ago by Linda M.

[InkedMarie]

I use ground raw so I won’t be of much help. If you’re on fb, look for some raw feeding groups. There are also non fb raw groups too. I stopped feeding marrow bones as I had a dog crack two teeth & he gnawed on marrow bones & Nylabones; I’ve stopped both. I now use beef rib bones.

[Akari_32]

Nope. I do 85% meat, 5% liver, 5% etc organ, and 5% bone. More or less, anyways. general recommendation for cats is still 10% organ like with dogs, but 5-7% bone, so I just kind of go with it based on what bones I have available at the time. He loves bones, so I typically give him closer to the 7% mark.

There are pre-mixes for cats, you just have to dig for them, and they cost a lot. The cheapest one, Wild Kitty, I didn’t like the looks of, but I’ve used a sample pack of it before, and he likes it. Pre-mixes require the meat be ground, which doesn’t do anything for dental health. It’s cheaper to just figure it out yourself, but it does take all that planning and prepping…. lol

[Anonymous]

I loved the raw frozen beef marrow bones as a treat, once or twice a week for my dogs.
My medium sized dog is fine with them, however my poodle developed pain and discomfort (nausea, vomiting, shivering), she liked to grind the bone into small fragments and consume…..well x-ray showed calcified material in her stomach and colon. Luckily it passed on it’s own, however if I give this dog a bone, I have to watch her carefully and remove the bone before she gets down to the nitty gritty.
Proceed with caution.
PS: I prefer to lightly cook meat, chicken…as I cannot afford fresh killed organic meat.
I buy from the reduced price section at the local supermarket and often freeze first.
I had a meat grinder, I recently took it to the Goodwill…not worth the trouble, imo

[Chrissy L]

Hello,
I have a 3yr 120lb Great Dane and a 4yr 8lb Chihuahua, I am wanting to wade into raw feeding instead of jumping headlong, because I’m not sure my dane will like it. He is a bit picky but he has started eating non-food items so the vet said he is lacking something in his diet. I do have access to a butcher, but not game meat. And I dont know what bones are ok for one dog and not the other. I also would rather not feed commercial if possible, I am a stay at home mom and so I have the time to put into whatever prep is needed.

Thanks

[InkedMarie]

What a week last week was. Boone had a dental last Monday & they needed to do two extractions (both on top, way in the back, last tooth on each side). That was no problem.

Two days after that, my 6yr old grandaughter had a mini root canal & crown. That night, around 7pm, Boone started bleeding. Luckily our new vet is open til 8pm. We went over, they had to knock him out to re-stitch.

Last Saturday, we were out & our son came to let the dogs out. He called us because Boone wasnt acting right. He thought we left something in his crate that he chewed up. We hadn’t. He was panting, shaking, not barking. It took us an hour to get home & off to the ER vet we went. He was running a fever, 103.5, was shaking, tongue hanging out….speaking of his tongue, while we were in the waiting room, we wondered if it was always that purplish color. The vet asked us the same thing. His lymph nodes in his neck were swollen which is no surprise due to two extractions. They checked his oxygen saturation which was fine, did a chest xray which was fine too. We picked up a thermometer to check his temp which has been fine.

His 2 teeth that were extracted were cracked so no marrow bones for him (he hasnt been getting those anymore) and no more Nylabones Dura chews for him.

Here’s hoping for no more health issues with either one!

[Susan]

Hi, try lower protein % & lower fat % diets, & milk bones are the worst they are high in fat… get a limited ingredient, low fat, single protein kibble, Have you tried a Hypoallergenic & Gluten free kibbles, something like “California Naturals” Lamb & Rice limited ingredients, it just has 4 ingredients or their Kangaroo & Lentils… or try the “Natural Balance” limited ingredients Kangaroo & Potatoes or the Rabbit & Potatoes or the Duck & Potatoes as these flavours have the least ingredients.. here’s a really good group to join & for help, Face Book “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disorder” once you find a diet & while ur trying a new kibble, do not give any treats, NOTHING just the low fat limited ingredient kibble, if everything is going good, then after say 3 months introduce something new like home made treats that are Gluten free, wheat free…
http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products

[Derek P]

We have an 8 month old Bulloxer (American Bulldog, Boxer Mix) and cannot find a food that will not give him diarrhea. He has had a couple solid poops, but then goes straight to diarrhea after that period. First we started him on Orijen Large breed puppy, we fed him 3-4 26.6 pound bags and still nothing but diarrhea and bad gas. We eventually switched him to Wellness Core Puppy food (which he is currently on). He started out fine for the first week or so, but now we are back to diarrhea and bad gas. He never has any table food and only has Milk Bones for treats. The only thing we could come up with is that he may just have a sensitive stomach, or dog food intolerance specifically to chicken since both of those food main ingredient was chicken. Any help is greatly appreciated, in order to get our pups stomach under control!

[Stacey A]

Hi. We’ve been making our own dog food for many years and I feel like it’s selfish not to share with others the way we make it economically. I realize the majority of people don’t have access to the same resources that we have but some people might benefit from this information and it really saves a lot of money while being very good for the dogs.

The #1 most important item we have to make this possible is our large pressure cooker. The reason it is so important is that when you pressure cook a chicken the bones become very soft and crumbly like chalk. You can literally take the leg bone of a pressure cooked chicken and pinch it into pieces between your thumb and forefinger. No splinters – and LOTS of calcium and other minerals. This only works with chicken. The bones of turkey, beef, pork etc. will not crumble this way. We have not tried it with fish and we do intend to, at some point. The pressure cooker is well worth the expense because keeping the bones really makes a chicken go a lot further and provides the dogs with a lot of nutrition.

We live on a farm and raise chickens for our friends and family and process them here. All we ask for, in exchange for the work we do raising the chickens, is the cost of feed and all of the “byproducts”, which we use in our homemade dog food. So basically we raise chickens and get paid with dog food. I’m not sure if our definition of “byproducts” is the same as the definition on the dog food bags but, if it is, “byproducts” are definitely not a bad thing. We keep all of the backs, necks, bones and organs (but not the stomach or intestines or feathers or heads/beaks). We would keep the feet because, believe it or not, there is a LOT of meat on feet and they are full of glucosamine etc. In many cultures, people eat the feet after the scales and toenails are removed. Unfortunately my husband is so grossed out by the appearance of the feet that he insists we throw them away and won’t even allow us to give them to the dogs.

I realize others don’t have access to the byproducts that we do but you can just use whole chickens and get the same results. When you cook a chicken for your family you wind up throwing over half of it away. Don’t throw away any part of your store-bought whole chicken, not the giblets or the skin or the necks or bones. If you want to keep the breasts for yourselves and give the rest of the chicken to the dogs you’re getting a very economical meal or two for yourself and the dogs.

So – just throw your whole chickens into your pressure cooker with some water and pressure cook them for 45 minutes to an hour. We think garlic is good for dogs and add a lot of it to the chicken but some people feel like garlic is bad for dogs because it comes from the same family as onions. As far as I know, no studies have been done. It depends on your altitude and what weight you use on the pressure cooker and it might take some trial and error – but cook them until the bones just crumble between your fingers. For us that’s 45 minutes at 10 pounds of pressure. Keep the broth to add to the water you cook your grains in.

Next, cook up an equal amount of rice or oatmeal, wheat berries, amaranth – whatever grains you have cheap and easy access to. We’ll use anything except for corn meal because we don’t want to feed anything GMO to our dogs. Oatmeal and rice are very cheap. There’s some controversy over potatoes but a lot of people feel potatoes are fine to feed to dogs instead of or in addition to grains.

Next, an equal amount of veggies. There’s some controversy as to whether or not the dogs actually need the veggies but they’re a good filler, they’re cheap, and they’re probably good for the dogs. We use stuff from our garden and also go to GFS and get the huge cans of green beans, carrots, and peas.

Just mix everything together and package it up – 1/3 meat, 1/3 carbs and 1/3 veggies. We currently feed our dogs 50% homemade dog food and 50% kibble just to make sure they get a lot of variety, but kibble makes us nervous. You never know when your brand is going to be on the recall list. We’d switch to 100% homemade dog food but we’d have to have a lot more chicken that way and we don’t believe in buying meat. We don’t like to eat anything we haven’t raised ourselves so we know for sure there aren’t any hormones etc. and that the animals were raised and butchered humanely and with very good sanitation.

We also feed the dogs other things when they’re available. We raise milk goats and have access to a lot of fresh raw goat milk – we have been careful not to give the dogs too much goat milk because we don’t want them to get diarrhea but we’ve never had any bad results from giving them small amounts of the raw goat milk or goat yogurt. Goat milk is so much more digestible than cow milk, and if you make it into yogurt or kefir the lactose gets removed. Also, kombucha is very good for the dogs and prevents cancer. We make our own and it only costs about 30 cents per gallon to make.

We have always had large breed dogs – shepherds, shepherd mixes. They’ve lived 13-14 years so we must be feeding them right.