[Shawna]

Hi Pittiemama,

Hopefully I can help you here. My puppy had kidney disease right from birth. It is believed her kidneys just weren’t able to develop (she was the sixth puppy, the runt, for a 12 pound Chihuahua / Boston Terrier mix). The breeder had to had feed her, due to a collapsing trachea, raw goats milk and egg whites to keep her alive. She had symptoms (excessive drinking and urine) at just six weeks of age. She was officially diagnosed at one year and given a year to live. She lived to eight years and seven months old and then passed for reasons not directly related to kd.

A little background on me, my father is a naturopath. I did consult with him when I got Audrey’s diagnosis but being raised by him, I was able to mostly formulate the plan of attack myself.

Audrey’s numbers, when she was diagnosed, were right around the same as your babies — and she lived almost seven more very very healthy and happy years. It could happen for your baby too.

The first thing I would suggest is to keep up on his dental health. You won’t want to use anesthesia for dental cleanings so RIGHT now start doing anything and everything you need to keep his teeth clean. It was actually bacteria likely from a dental infection that got into Audrey’s kidneys and ultimately took her life. Use fresh garlic in his meals. Use an enzyme supplement in his water, Dr. Melissa Shelton’s essential oil called Dog Breath is very effective and a drop can be added to his water dish or you can mix with water in a spray bottle and spray right on teeth. http://www.animaleo.info/dog-breath.html I would also recommend a product made by Green Pasture’s called Infused Coconut Oil. It’s high in vitamin K2 (which has been shown to have great benefit for teeth) and has other wonderful nutrients. All of my dogs get it but I found it when Audrey’s teeth were already needing some extra support. 🙁 http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/InfusedCoconutOil/index.cfm

I HIGHLY recommend Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It is a food based supplement that “feeds” the kidneys but also has a product called a protomorphogen (which is the RNA/DNA of the kidney cell) that helps prevent inflammation to the kidneys. It is the one supplement she never went without. I also used their SP Canine Hepatic Support when I thought she needed a little liver support — helps with allergies too. I also used their Cataplex B and C as water soluble vitamins may need to be added due to the large amounts being urinated out.

ONLY give filtered or other forms of “clean” water. I would avoid tap water at all cost. Lower sodium mineral waters with good amounts of calcium and magnesium have been shown to be beneficial for dogs with kd. I like Evian water because it is high in calcium bicarbonate. I didn’t give it all the time but made sure (at least in the beginning) to give it regularly — I got lax in the later years and I truly believe Audrey would still be with me if I had not. She was doing so well though and my life got busier..

I HIGHLY recommend getting some Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotic and Garden of Life Acacia Fiber supplements as well. These are used as “nitrogen traps” and as BUN begins to build up the bacteria consuming the fiber will cause some of the nitrogen to be routed through the bowels freeing up the kidneys from having to deal with them. I gave probiotic foods (like green tripe, fermented veggies etc) frequently but when I noticed she was feeling a little lethargic, depressed, not feeling well etc I assumed nitrogen was building up and I’d give her the probiotics and prebiotic for several days. Always worked like a charm. Will be quite important as the disease progresses and he starts getting symptoms. This also allows for a higher protein diet. The protein doesn’t damage the kidneys but it does, due to BUN, add to symptoms. Oh, I forgot to mention. Audrey ate a HIGH protein raw diet up until the last six to eight weeks of her life. Audrey never had a problem with phosphorus but as your puppies disease progresses you may have to watch the amount of phosphorus in the foods you are feeding. The golden rule is to limit phosphorus but it’s obviously not always necessary. That said, phosphorus can damage the kidneys if it gets too high in the blood so either monitor it or feed the right amounts of phos for the stage your pup is at. Right now while phosphorus isn’t as big an issue, I like the Honest Kitchen Brave. To that I would add a raw egg a few times per week and give Answer’s raw goat milk regularly as well. Both raw eggs (if not whipped etc) and raw milk can easily increase the “master antioxidant” in the body called glutathione. This will obviously help out everything. Later, when phos needs to be more restricted, you may not be able to give the whole egg (as the yolk is higher in phos).

Supplements —
1. Organic Turmeric is good as it is anti-inflammatory but it also is anti-fibrotic (prevents scar tissue). Audrey didn’t tolerate turmeric well so she didn’t get it but in general it would be quite helpful for a dog with KD.
2. Spirulina, chlorella and pumpkin seed oil are all high in chlorophyll and supplies lots of other nutrients. Dogs with KD can be at risk for anemia and chlorophyll is awesome for anemia.
3. Burdock root is a prebiotic and of the herb world is considered to be the “blood cleaner”.
4. Milk thistle helps spare glutathione and is a good detoxer.
5. Distilled water (given once in a while) and food grade activated charcoal are good detoxers too.
6. Copaiba essential oil is great for pains and inflammation plus more. A therapeutic grade, like Dr. Sheltons, is the only kind to use on pets. Can be given in food or rubbed into the skin over the kidneys as an example.
7. Braggs brand apple cider vinegar can help with indigestion or tummy issues. Audrey didn’t need it often but when she did I would mix it 50/50 with water and syringe feed it. She hated it but within seconds would burp and feel better.
8. Therapeutic grade peppermint oil, ginger extract or Dr. Shelton’s GI Joe essential oil work great for tummy issues as well. I got sick to my tummy and used the GI Joe to help. Kept me from vomiting and soothed my tummy.
9. Learn about essential oils if you don’t already know. If you have a Facebook account, join AnimalEO’s page and sign up for Dr. Shelton’s Friday Fun Facts. I didn’t know about them early enough to be much use with Audrey (specifically Dr. Shelton’s oils) but I sure wish I had.

DON’T do ANY more vaccinations – not even rabies if you can at all avoid. Audrey was legally exempted from having to get the rabies vaccine for life. She wasn’t protected either as she only got her first shot (at six months) before diagnosis was made. No heartworm, flea/tick or anything like that either.

I know there’s things I’m forgetting but hopefully this is enough to give you a good jumping off point.. 🙂 Hugs to you and your baby boy!!!!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

Hi Kelly P,

I’m a raw feeder and also recommend feeding raw right on weaning or as soon after as possible. I think feeding bones to dogs that handle them is a great idea – Of my eight, I have one that gulps and bones are too risky for her. The others actually chew so they get bones. However when it comes to large breed puppies, aimee is right. They need controlled amounts of calcium and shouldn’t be overfed. That DOESN’T mean they can’t eat raw though. Hound Dog Mom has recipes here on the forum that are an excellent option for large breed puppies.

Here’s a couple good sources on large breed puppies and calcium
“Optimal feeding of large breed puppies, Jennifer Larsen DVM, MS ”
http://www.lgd.org/library/Optimal%20feeding%20of%20large%20breed%20puppies.pdf

“The Mistake That Can Wreak Havoc on Your Dog’s Skeleton” Dr. Karen Becker DVM
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/05/31/large-dog-feeding-mistakes.aspx

Wishing best of health for your pupp!!

[Shawna]

I foster/fostered puppies for Boston Terrier, Papillon and an all breed rescue. None of mine are now puppies but I’ve had some 20 or more ranging in age from 4 days old (with his mommy of course), five weeks, many that were in the 8 to 12 week range and on up. All puppies already weaned have started right on the same rotational diet that the adult dogs ate. I’ve found puppies actually tolerate the change in diet MUCH BETTER than do adult dogs. I’ve only had one that ever had a problem and he was reacting to a specific protein I was rotating in. In my experience, there’s no need to wait till a specific age to start rotating (or adding high quality canned, cooked or raw toppers).

I rotate kibble brands/proteins about every week, rotate the canned topper every three to four days and rotate the raw I’m using as a topper every other day. Half the diet is raw, teaspoon of canned and the rest is kibble.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

Hi Keira,

So sorry to hear about your baby!!

Diagnosed as stage 4 but has no symptoms other than urinating inappropriately? That’s odd. It would be really helpful to know the results of the original blood panel (before starting the prescription diet) when discussing foods and supplements. As the BUN and creatinine get more elevated you need to start limiting phosphorus (as it can build up in the system and damage the kidneys) and protein (as it contributes to symptoms – but NOT to damaging the kidneys)). Example – in the later stages of the disease egg yolks should be increasingly limited because of the higher phosphorus content in them. Ask you vet for a copy of your pup’s blood work if you don’t already have it and then let us know the values.

Nitrogen trapping is helpful at any stage of renal failure but becomes the most noticeably beneficial when you start seeing symptoms – vomiting, inappetance, possibly lethargy or depression etc. In order to create a nitrogen trap you absolutely need a probiotic (however I’m not sure which bacteria is involved in nitrogen trapping so I recommend using one with a WIDE variety of beneficial microbes – one like Garden of Life Primal Defense (human product)). When my Audrey was diagnosed with KD at age one (she was also given a year to live but lived to just shy of age nine) I tried multiple different fiber sources (which are also considered prebiotics – feed the microbes in the gut). Some of the prebiotics (such as apple and grapefruit pectin or the fiber in the grain barley) had a negative impact – the pectins made her symptoms worse and she had a food sensitivity to the barley. I ended up using acacia fiber for her from age one and half(ish) to when she passed. Garden of Life has an acacia fiber product as well but NOW brand makes one and there are a few others.

“Standard Process Renal Support” is the one supplement that my girl NEVER did without. It helps in many many many ways including giving the kidneys the nourishment they need to preventing inflammation from damaging the kidneys further. The Standard Process brand have specific products (called protomorphogens) that help with inflammation. There are other things I used for Audrey or would recommend – such as turmeric bombs / balls, Evian bottle water (lower in sodium then some others and a type of calcium very easily used by the body), activated charcoal, spirulina, chlorella and so on.

Your current diet doesn’t have a source of calcium listed which is VERY important.. If you can give us her actual info from the blood panel we can more easily recommend the right diet for you.

[Shawna]

I clicked on one of your links and a pop up caught my attention. I saw a Ted TV talk by this medical doctor several years ago. It was very interesting and I’ve been trying to find it since. Thanks. It’s not the video I’m linking to today but the same doctor has another Ted TV talk titled “Battling Bad Science”. Dr. Goldacre is clearly opposed to alternatives (at least some) but he demonstrates how “evidence based science” can be quite flawed in how it is reported and therefore utilized. Medicines with questionable efficacy can be licensed and utilized hence leading to the very same illnesses, and potentially, I am assuming, death that skeptvet attacks holistic modalities/practitioners for. https://www.ted.com/talks/ben_goldacre_battling_bad_science?language=en

Edit — Oh yes, apparently per Dr. Goldacre, in this website I just found, patients are dying due to “bad science”. “I did a new talk at TED about drug companies hiding the results of clinical trials, it went up today. This is a huge, ongoing problem, and it results in patients suffering and dying unnecessarily.” http://www.badscience.net/2012/09/i-did-a-talk-at-ted-about-drug-companies-and-hidden-data/

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

I immediately thought of skeptvet, and a few others, when I watched this TedTV / Tedx University of Nevada video discussing “propaganda and astroturf”. He, and others, uses many of the words and tactics discussed (“quack” and “pseudo” as examples). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

Ya no, you are right…. Homeopathics should definitely be attacked when I make a personal choice to take my pets (or myself) to them… Makes perfect sense to me????? If allopathic medicine “worked” and worked well, there’d be no way holistic practitioners could stay in business. Allopathic medicine certainly has it’s place but it’s not the only option — THANK GOD FOR THAT!!!

“Promote homeopathy as an alternative to scientific medicine” It seems to me that skeptvet and others like him are threatened by the alternative movement just as they are to the raw movement. It’s not a big secret that allopathic medicine is often ineffective, can be very dangerous and is used inappropriately/off label.

If skeptvet wasn’t so anti everything natural I might be able to consider him somewhat credible but as it is, not so much… Just my opinion of course.

PS — can you point out one homeopathic medicine that directly causes death (or any of the others listed) as a side effect?
“Rimadyl, like other drugs, may cause some side effects. Serious but rare side effects have been reported in dogs taking NSAIDs, including Rimadyl. Serious side effects can occur with or without warning and in rare situations result in <b>death</b>. The most common NSAID-related side effects generally involve the stomach (such as bleeding ulcers), and liver or kidney problems. Look for the following side effects that can indicate your dog may be having a problem with Rimadyl or may have another medical problem:
• Decrease or increase in appetite
• Vomiting
• Change in bowel movements (such as diarrhea, or black, tarry or bloody stools)
• Change in behavior (such as decreased or increased activity level, incoordination, seizure or aggression)
• Yellowing of gums, skin, or whites of the eyes (jaundice)
• Change in drinking habits (frequency, amount consumed)
• Change in urination habits (frequency, color, or smell)
• Change in skin (redness, scabs, or scratching)” http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AnimalVeterinary/Products/ApprovedAnimalDrugProducts/DrugLabels/UCM050408.pdf

[Shawna]

Kristine,

Every dog and every case is different but my Pomeranian, Gizmo, had IBD and, with the help of my holistic vet and homeopathy, we were able to figure out that chicken was causing the inflammation. She is sensitive to chicken. As soon as I figured out it was the chicken and took her off of it, no more IBD but it did take about a year to heal her gut completely. If you haven’t tried an elimination diet with a novel protein and carb, I think it could be worth a shot.

[Shawna]

From my experience, food sensitivities and intolerances can be far greater than just the digestive tract.

Gluten ataxia is just one example
“Our first aim in this study was to establish any therapeutic effects of the gluten-free diet in patients with gluten sensitivity presenting with ataxia. Our second aim was to provide further evidence, by studying patients with gluten ataxia but without enteropathy, that the nervous system can be the sole target organ of an immune mediated disease triggered and perpetuated by the ingestion of gluten.” http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/74/9/1221.full

[Shawna]

First they target homeopathy and then they’ll target herbs or essential oils or anything else that is a risk to big pharma… At one point the government was targeting food based vitamins. It’s really quite laughable.

[Shawna]

Hmmmmm? Creatinine is only a little high… Something doesn’t jive here. I’m sure there are exceptions to the rules but creatinine is a better indication of how well the kidneys are actually functioning (from everything I’ve ever read). Maybe newer data is suggesting different but data on this site, veterinary medicine dvm360, published in 2011 still agrees “A serum creatinine concentration is the most commonly used measure of severity of renal dysfunction and is the basis for staging chronic kidney disease (CKD) (Table 1). To optimize accurate staging of CKD, serum creatinine concentrations should be evaluated on two or more occasions when the patient is well-hydrated.” http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/laboratory-evaluation-kidney-disease?rel=canonical

Based on a BUN of 77 and a creatinine of 1.6, I personally wouldn’t do low protein but rather moderate amounts of “high quality” protein.

Does your girl have large amounts of very dilute urine? Was there any protein in the urine? Was any other tests done? Is there any other medical conditions? Did you get a second opinion? She doesn’t want to eat often but you said this is just her normal. Does she have any other symptoms such as vomiting, depression etc?

This may help… My Audrey was diagnosed when she was just 13 months old but had symptoms when she was just 6 weeks old. Within the first year of diagnosis I made dietary changes and then had her blood work done every three months. On December 18, 2007 (the second blood work done after the dietary changes) her BUN was 77 (6 to 25 normal) and her creatinine was 1.9 (0.5 to 1.6 are normal ranges for this lab). Audrey didn’t eat a lower protein diet for another almost 7 years.

They also now know that senior dogs actually require MORE protein than adult dogs because they are less efficient at digesting it. Even toy breed dogs – I had a 4 pound Chihuahua live to age 19 eating a HIGH protein diet.

Please take some time to read the articles on this website. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html

Okay……..YES – I would highly recommend starting her on Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It’s pricey up front but will last a long time for a four pound little girl. I’ve never used Five Leaf but others I’ve directly talked to felt it helped. The Primal Defense and Acacia Fiber will help lower BUN. I personally would look at feeding foods with higher quality and amounts of protein and getting rid of the cream of wheat and gravy. See if you can find canned tripe — a brand that is just tripe. There is one out with quinoa but I’m not sure how much phosphorus is in quinoa so not sure it is suitable? It may be, I just don’t know. Tripe itself is higher in protein with moderate amounts of phosphorus. Most dogs really really like it too. You can continue the goat milk (best if it’s raw in my opinion). Eggs are a good option but the yolk is higher in phosphorus so, recommendations vary depending on stage of the disease, you might want to feed more cooked whites then whole eggs (maybe a one to one ratio – one whole egg with one white only). I would also suggest against feeding homemade as it is really important to get the phosphorus to calcium ratios correct and to limit phosphorus to appropriate amounts for the stage of the disease (which is early stage based on the numbers you mentioned—unless your lab normals are way different than mine?). There are recipes online if you want to home prepare. Dr. Meg Smart has a recipe – you would want the one for “early to moderate stage” http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

There’s lots more you can do but you mentioned you have a budget so start with these and then if there’s more for other things you can add on as able–such as herbs that can be helpful.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

PS — the malt o meal with turkey gravy won’t increase the BUN much as it’s lower protein but it is decreasing the protein of the overall diet and KD diets are already very low in protein. The kidneys need adequate protein to be able to filter properly (referred to as GFR).

Here’s a little blurb about it if interested
“In 1923, Addis and Drury [45] were among the first to observe a relationship between level of dietary protein and rates of urea excretion. Soon after, it was established that increased protein intake elevated rates of creatinine and urea excretion in the dog model [46]. The common mechanism underlying increased excretion rates was eventually attributed to changes in GFR [47,48] and Van Slyke et al. [49] demonstrated that renal blood flow was the basis for GFR mediated changes in clearance rates in response to increased protein intake” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1262767/

Protein INCREASES excretion of urea (also referred to as BUN) and creatinine by helping move them through the kidneys more efficiently.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

Hi Bev A,

I don’t come on DFA, and especially the forums, that much any more so didn’t see your post. Betsy alerted me that you had asked me a question. Thanks Betsy!!

Probiotics and certain prebiotics do help lower BUN – even the Merck Vet Manual agrees “feeding moderately fermentable fiber can facilitate enteric dialysis and provide a nonrenal route of urea excretion.” Unfortunately it seems most vets don’t know this yet. 🙁 http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_small_animals/nutrition_in_disease_management_in_small_animals.html

How high is your baby girl’s creatinine? Creatinine is more indicative of how the kidneys are doing. BUN can be elevated for additional reasons besides the kidneys. Example — feeding kibble (even KD prescription kibble), while simultaneously not getting enough water, can increase BUN. Does she have unlimited access to water and does she drink often? If you are feeding KD kibble, I would HIGHLY recommend switching to Science Diet’s KD canned foods — they have three of them (one is egg based, one is chicken based and one is beef based). Mixing up the canned food could keep her eating better based on her history. IF her creatinin is on the low side of high AND you can get the BUN down by feeding canned food and giving probiotics/prebiotics, you can also consider adding some higher protein, lower phosphorus toppers to her food and see how she does. The Merck Vet Manual has some info on this too. “In addition, research in dogs is also showing that higher protein levels than what are typically used in most therapeutic renal diets is beneficial as long as the diets are phosphorus restricted. Energy should be supplied primarily via feeding relatively more digestible fat and carbohydrates.” As stated, most of the “energy” in the diet should be fats and appropriate carbs but adding the right kinds of protein can help as well as being more appealing. For now, while the BUN is high, don’t mess with adding anything with protein, including treats, to the diet. If she likes organic, extra virgin coconut oil you can add small amounts of that to each meal and blend it in well so she doesn’t pick it out. It won’t add to the BUN. Oh, and I do like raw goats milk.

Changing from a kibbled diet to a canned KD diet should help reduce BUN. Adding a GOOD quality probiotic (I like Primal Defense by Garden Of Life or the product at Mercola Healthy Pets website) and the right prebiotic can help further reduce BUN. Adding the wrong prebiotic (fermentable fiber is another term) can make things worse as they ferment in the wrong part of the digestive tract apparently. The product I found the most beneficial for my KD girl is called acacia fiber. NOW brand makes one. http://www.nowfoods.com/Acacia-Fiber-Organic-Powder-12oz.htm

If she’s never been on probiotics and prebiotics before then I would introduce them slowly over several weeks period. My Audrey was 9 pounds and I gave her 1/2 of a Primal Defense and 1/8 tsp of acacia fiber in her food as needed (when I noticed she seemed off). To start out I would give maybe 1/8 of the probiotic for a few days. Then continue that dose but add a pinch of the fiber for a few more days. Then increase the probiotic to 1/4 but leave fiber at 1/8 for a few more days. If you don’t see any symptoms you might be able to go a little quicker. If you do see symptoms you might want to decrease the amounts being given a bit. Given to quickly to dogs not used to them, probiotics can often have diarrhea as a symptom as an example.

Let me know if you have any more questions for me and let us know how things are going.

Good luck to you and your baby!!!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

I do agree, at some points in the progression of an illness (especially a chronic one) we simply have to do what we have to do to keep the pup / person comfortable and symptoms manageable… 🙂

I forgot about the liver and kidney questions but did mean to respond to that. Thanks for the reminder…. I ABSOLUTELY WOULD recommend giving both liver and kidney but not as a whole food, especially not in later stages of kidney disease. Instead I would (and did) use therapeutic amounts of whole food supplemental liver and kidney — specifically Standard Process Canine Kidney Support and Standard Process Canine Hepatic Support. Both of these supplements will have a far greater overall impact than just feeding liver or kidneys. Both will act much more readily as an “oral tolerant” than the organ itself due to how the product is made (specifically the protomorphogens). 🙂 The supplements also have less phosphorus than the whole organ.

[Shawna]

Hi C4D,

“Mine was adamant about using the Sub-Q’s and giving famotadine (Pepcid AC) to help with the metabolic acidosis that is a part of kidney disease. That’s the reason he doesn’t want to eat.”

You’ve mentioned this a few times and I was hoping you would allow me to give a different point of view? First though, I DEFINITELY agree with the Sub-Q fluids. Fluids are started when BUN and creatinin get to a certain level usually. This is, in part, to help flush toxins from the blood (hence why they wait for a build up of those toxins). Flushing those toxins out helps pup feel better and is often the only cause of inappetence.

I wanted to talk more about Pepcid AC. I think the first thing is that these types of drugs don’t actually help with “systemic” acidosis. They are designed to control the amount of acid in the gut only – not in the whole body. However, the doctors that I follow feel that indigestion etc is caused by too little acid production. This makes sense to me when you think about how food is digested. When we eat protein our gut makes hydrochloric acid in response to the amount of protein in that food. It does this because it then activates the enzyme pepsin in the stomach that helps to digest protein. Not enough acid and the protein sits in the tummy not getting digested — this causes symptoms. YES, antacids do work but they don’t resolve the issue but rather hide the symptoms. You are still not digesting your proteins and NOW, due to the antacid, you are digesting even less protein (while potentially on an already low protein diet). It’s no wonder our dogs and cats don’t live long with KD. 🙁

Yes, when ulcers are present there are definitely considerations that need to be made. That said, ulcers are caused by Helicobacter pylori bacteria. Newer thinking believes that dietary sensitivities (which we now know can be activated by bacteria) strip the lining of our gastrointestinal tract and set the gut up FOR the bacterial infection and symptoms – aka ulcer. Avoiding the trigger, when possible, is a far better way of dealing with a symptom than simply medicating the symptom.

You had mentioned Dogaware as a reference for the use of pepcid with inappetence but Mary actually states that it was the pepcid that was “causing” her Shar Pei to have inappetence. She writes “WARNING: I had my dog on Pepcid for over a year when I discovered it was contributing to her inappetence. Once I stopped giving it, her appetite improved immediately.”

A few times a year, the last few years at least, I could tell that my Audrey was having some gut issues after eating. I resolved her discomfort by mixing apple cider vinegar 50/50 with water and forcing it down via syringe. With in a few to five minutes she would belch and then be fine. Other great options for inappetence that don’t have protein digesting side effects would be peppermint essential oil and ginger extract. Actually, just yesterday I watched a video on Dr. Melissa Shelton’s Facebook page — she’s treating a kitten that was failing to thrive. She offered kitty food and kitty sniffed but wouldn’t take it. She picked kitty up and dropped 5 to 6 drops of Kitty Boost (an essential oil she formulated specifically for cats) on his back and then rubbed it in. While rubbing it in she said that it had the oils from GI Goe (her blend for tummy issues) in it. She spent a minute or two rubbing the oil in the kitties fur, set the kitten down and continued talking. The kitten immediately went over to the food bowl and started eating. It was pretty amazing how quickly it worked.

Anyway, sorry this was soooo long. Hope there was some food for thought there. 🙂

[Shawna]

Hi Courtney,

So sorry, I just now saw your reply to me!!

Yes, I believe Dori is quite satisfied with the support and dietary advice she received from Dr. Wynn. Dori is a raw feeder and feeds pre-made complete and balanced diets so I’m not exactly sure what involvement Dr. Wynn had. Maybe just consult versus diet formulation? I can ask Dori to comment.

A nutritionist, whether credentialed or not, holds no value to me if they don’t have a deeper understanding of how “healthy foods” (like canola oil) 🙂 can be damaging. I want someone willing to think outside the box versus someone to just spout out recipes that simply meet all the nutrient requirements. I’m not sure all the people I listed can do that but I have more faith in them then some others I’ve seen (especially Drs. Becker and Royal). The problem with this is that you might have to spend more on more supplements but, in my opinion, in the long run it pays off with better health. An example if needing canola for it’s Linoleic acid — hemp seed oil would be an alternative having 54 to 57% LA (Dr. Becker recommends hemp seed in her recipe book when feeding a beef diet). Another option, and my personal choice, would be pumpkin seed oil. It contains approximately 64% LA. In addition to that it is high in vitamin E and in chlorophyll which is quite health promoting. It’s likely that a source of Omega 3 would need to be added in higher amounts with these two than with canola but that is definitely doable for most.

There are nutritionists that can formulate a complete and balanced diet and then their are folks that can formulate a complete and balanced diet while doing so with foods that not only meet nutritional needs but also promote optimal health. But I’m sure you understand that as you are trying to get a more personalized, healthier diet. 🙂

I think this article written by a human dietitian explains the problem quite well
“A DIETITIAN’S TRAINING AND ROUTINE

Providing Medical Nutrition Therapy in a nursing home requires credentials as a registered dietitian with the American Dietetic Association’s (ADA) Commission on Dietetic Registration. Training is extensive. In most cases it requires a bachelor’s degree from an accredited college, an internship of nine months to a year working within a clinical setting, and passing a comprehensive exam.

During my clinical training as a dietitian, I was not taught holistic nutrition principles. I did not learn the benefits of herbs, or of the importance of whole foods, probiotics, enzymes, or organically grown foods to good health. I did not learn to use vitamin and mineral supplementation to overcome illness or disease. I did not understand that poor nutrition is probably the cause of most disease and poor health conditions in the first place. I had no idea that we require cholesterol and saturated fat to be well. I did not learn that the nutritional value of grass-fed beef was superior to grain-fed beef, or of the importance of iodine coupled with the avoidance of bromine for proper thyroid function, and so on.

I was taught we should eat less fat and more grain products. I was led to believe that pharmaceutical therapy was necessary and that nutrition made little or no impact in treating an already established condition. My continuing education hours were offered free by the pharmaceutical industry. During these classes I was taught about their “new and improved” Ensure and other products they were promoting.” – See more at: http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/health-issues/a-dietitians-experience-in-the-nursing-home/#sthash.SWFcZ0Bo.dpuf

It’s often more about what you know than what (or even where) you were taught.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

Hi Ken,

I haven’t read through all the comments but I wanted to state that it could be the chicken causing the issue — a chicken sensitivity versus and allergy. Maybe the chicken itself OR what the chicken ate even (since it seems to be brand specific). I’m a raw feeder of multiple dogs (I have six of my own right now and foster) for over 10 years by the way. My Pom gets ulcerative colitis (bright red blood in diarrhea (her’s is almost liquid though)). Chicken is what sets my girl off (only the muscle meat – she is fine with eggs, liver, kidneys etc).

Sensitivities can manifest after the dog (or person) has been on the food for a while. A protein in certain foods, called a lectin, can bind with the gut wall and cause disease. Initially it binds with IgA (an immune system antigen) but eventually the body is not capable of producing enough IgA to bind with the lectin and then you see symptoms. Typical allergy tests test for IgE immunoglobulins so they can’t detect food sensitivities (which are actually much more common than IgE allergies). I understand that the food he gets better on is “boiled chicken” but boiling (at least with legumes) leaches some of the lectins from the food making less for the body to have to deal with. OR possibly the boiled chicken is different than the one causing the IBD because of something the chicken ate (organic grains fed to livestock have lectins too).

Okay, that was just one thought. The other is that the raw chicken drumstick and thigh diet is not a balanced diet. I know, I know……eye rolls and oh not one of those must be balanced nuts. 🙂 hee hee But there really is something to it. Dark meat chicken is an excellent source of linoleic acid (the omega 6 fat that is necessary for health). However when LA is over-consumed and/or not consumed in balance with omega 3 fats it can be quite inflammatory. Although a good source of LA, chicken is deficient in saturated fatty acids which the body also needs. You don’t mention organs which supply other nutrients. This may or may not be a direct cause but it certainly could be an indirect cause.

Hope, whatever it is, you can get it figured out and get back to wonderful health.

[Shawna]

I haven’t worked with any of these folks but have been following them for years.
Monica Segal
Kymythy Schultz
Cat Lane

Dr. Meg Smart is a board certified vet and taught nutrition. She’s in Canada but may do long distance consults. She is a raw feeder and although she uses some products I wouldn’t (like canola oil etc) I do think she would customize further.

Dr. Susan Wynn is another board certified vet nutritionist. One of my friends uses her and is very VERY picky about what she will give her dogs (only species appropriate foods).

Dr. Barbara Royal and Dr. Karen Becker are not certified nutritionists but in my opinion have a great grasp on species appropriate ingredients and foods and have a better understanding on why not to use some things (like canola oil). Dr. Royal created a prescription raw liver and a kidney diet that are sold through Darwins. Dr. Becker co-wrote “Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats”. She has a wonderful grasp on healthful foods and nutrients and how those foods could help or harm our pets.

Hope the above gives you a few jumping off points!!!

[Shawna]

Hi Vicky T,

My Chihuahua mix had kidney disease from birth and lived to just shy of nine years of age. The most important thing I can say about kidney disease is DON’T feed a kibble diet — even prescription kibble. If you want to stick with prescription, Science Diet has some nice canned products that they recently came out with. One is beef based and the other is chicken based. If you are interested in feeding homemade, Veterinary Nutritionist Dr. Meg Smart has a nice recipe on her blog page. Dr. Smart gives a recipe for “early to moderate” and for “late stage” kidney disease. http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

Many, if not most, vets have not yet heard about (or understand if they did hear) the importance of probiotics and certain prebiotics (aka fermentable fibers) for kidney patients. These two supplements help to re-route BUN from the dog’s blood to the colon. This helps pup feel better and allows for a bit higher protein diet. The Merck Vet Manual has a nice blurb about it if your or your vet might be interested. They write “In addition, feeding moderately fermentable fiber can facilitate enteric dialysis and provide a nonrenal route of urea excretion.” http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_small_animals/nutrition_in_disease_management_in_small_animals.html

The fermentable fiber I found to be the most helpful with my Audrey was a human product called “Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber”. It is no longer made but the fiber used, acacia fiber, is also sold by NOW brand. The probiotic I used is also a human product called “Garden of Life Primal Defense”. I gave the products together with Audrey’s meal whenever she seemed depressed, down or not feeling well. Audrey at a HIGH protein diet her whole except the last couple months and then I added some canned KD to her diet.

If Audrey had symptoms of nausea (which was rare until the very end) I would add a drop or two of peppermint essential oil (therapeutic grade only) or ginger extract (from health food store). Now vet Dr. Melissa Shelton has a line of essential oils for animals that are wonderful. I tried her GI Goe product when I had eaten something that wasn’t agreeing with me and it helped TREMENDOUSLY.. I put a dot of the oil on my finger and rubbed it on my tongue. Helped almost immediately.

Having a purified source of high quality drinking water always available is a great idea. Also giving Evian (or another high calcium, lower sodium mineral water) has been shown to help kd patients too.

The one supplement that I gave my Audrey from the day of diagnosis to the day she passed was Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It is a whole food supplement that can help prevent damage to the kidneys from inflammation. I HIGHLY recommend it.

I also really really like Answer’s Raw Goat Milk for kd dogs. It can often be found in pet boutique stores.

I found my local vets (two regular vets and one holistic vet (that I otherwise LOVE)) to be almost useless when it came to diet (or anything else natural that could be helpful with kidney disease).. I hope your vet is much more helpful!!!

Do take a look at the link that C4D posted (dogaware). That site was HUGELY helpful to me when I was trying to figure out what to do with Audrey right after diagnosis.

Good luck to you and thanks to C4D for the kind words!!!!

[Shawna]

I spent last Friday night through Tuesday morning at the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Associations conference in Augusta, Georgia and there were A LOT, A LOT, A LOT, A LOT of vets and vet techs drinking the holistic and all natural kool-aid.

Red likes to call them quacks but thing is, they all went to the same vet schools that Skeptvet and other allopathic vets went to. They simply found another option that is OBVIOUSLY (based on the number of vets at the conference) working.

I think Red even once made a statement something like food is not medicine yet it truly is. In fact, allopathic medicine refers to healing with nutrients “oral tolerization”.
“Nutrition and Immunology: Principles and Practice” — https://books.google.com/books?id=hf8ICAAAQBAJ&pg=PA323&lpg=PA323&dq=oral+tolerization+rheumatoid+arthritis&source=bl&ots=pWQwm4hUV5&sig=FOgLHepW8hxoJh-gjlmYj3N5ycU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CGUQ6AEwCGoVChMIh9-CvPvTyAIVzuKACh3f_guE#v=onepage&q=oral%20tolerization%20rheumatoid%20arthritis&f=false

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

Thanks for your thoughtful and informative reply Red.

[Shawna]

Thanks DF and C4D!!! 🙂

Jan f – the W/D kibble ingredient list, per Hills website, has “chicken meal” therefore I would have to assume that your pup handles chicken muscle protein just fine. Maybe try buying some chicken legs, breasts and/or thighs and boiling them in water, separate the meat from the bone and cut the meat into treat sized bites. Refrigerate two or three days worth, put three days worth into individual freezer bags and freeze them for future use.

Just a thought.

[Shawna]

Red,

First – Jan I’m not suggesting in my comments below to Red that you feed anything you are not comfortable with, I’m simply responding to Red’s Skeptvet quoted material.

I do like much of the information you gave the OP but your persistent backlash towards alternative approaches DESPITE being provided with science and sources showing results etc is nothing less than propaganda for everything allopathic. Which is also evident in the fact that you have no other sources than Skeptvet — one man’s opinions.

Let’s not forget that Skeptvet is not a nutritionist either yet he writes “unconventional, approaches to pet nutrition, such as raw diets, grain free foods, homemade diets, a preference for organic ingredients, and so on, to dismiss objections to these approaches made by veterinarians.” Yet he’s doing the very same thing by trying to cast a bad light on these “unconventional approaches” when some of his peers (some of whom ARE nutritionists) recommend those very diets. Let’s take a look shall we

Dr. Meg Smart not only is a veterinary nutritionist but she TAUGHT veterinary nutrition. She recommends homemade (raw or cooked) and likens kibble to feeding your kids “kraft dinners and the likes”. She writes “I always ask clients” what do you or did you feed your children” if they reply “Kraft dinners and the likes” I do not advise a homemade diet.” – See more at: http://www.angryvet.com/angryvet-nutrition-interview-drs-joseph-wakshlag-and-meg-smart/#sthash.dc3Xl7e0.dpuf Dr. Smarts course, by the way, is an “elective” course. Vets at her school are not required to take her course. “Dr. Smart has taught a small animal nutrition elective course to fourth-year veterinary students since 1994.” https://www.usask.ca/wcvm/wcvm_people/profiles/Smart_Marion%20Meg.php

Or then there is veterinary nutritionist Dr. Susan Wynn who also recommends homemade diets. “Homemade diets are flexible, tasty and in some cases healthier than over the counter dog and cat foods. For some pets with multiple medical conditions, a homemade diet offers the only hope for meeting complex nutritional requirements.” http://www.susanwynn.com/Formulated_Diets.php

The Marvistavet link I posted above suggesting a homemade diet, although not a nutritionist, is a veterinary website.

Although not technically a nutritionist, as far as I know, Dr. Elizabeth Hodkins did work for Hills per her Linkedin page so I’m counting her. She too recommends homemade (and raw). Dr. Smart and Dr. Hodkins co-wrote the book “Not Fit for a Dog!: The Truth about Manufactured Cat and Dog Food” http://www.amazon.com/Not-Fit-Dog-Truth-Manufactured/dp/1610351495

Dr. Smart has some interesting data on science and pet food. She writes
“A recent article “Science under Siege” although about pharmaceutical research(Discover Magazine Oct2007)) reflects what is happening in the pet food industry . Private funding to academic institutions by big pharmaceutical companies is allowing science to become a powerful tool in their fight against regulation. Research in small animal nutrition has been traditionally underfunded or more accurately seldom funded by independent granting agencies. This has left the field wide open for the pet food industry to control and direct the research done in an academic institution, and within their own facilities. Research into pet foods is seldom at “arm’s length”.

The validity of trials conducted on dogs and cats kept in a kennel or research facility is questioned, as these animals do not have the same freedoms and human bonding experiences of the pets kept within a home environment. Most nutritional trials on companion animals are only valid for that particular group, maintained under the same conditions, fed identical diets. Even the results from the relatively simple non invasive digestibility, palatability and feeding trials done in kennels or catteries specifically established and approved to conduct these trials have come under scrutiny when environment, previous diet, gender, breed and age differences are considered.” http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/11/evaluating-nutritional-research.html

I’m interested on your thoughts on these points I’ve presented.

[Shawna]

Hi sheila23,

Yes, don’t lose hope. Your boy is young and in early stages. There’s lots of reason for hope.

Absolutely, the mineral waters will be just as beneficial for your other dogs as well. I was at a lecture once and they discussed ionizable calcium (calcium bicarbonate) which is found in good quality mineral waters. Calcium bicarbonate is found in the blood (about 1% of the total body calcium) and helps the immune system to fight invaders like bacteria. The calcium traps the bacteria etc (referred to as the calcium wave) until the immune systems white blood cells can get there to eat the bacteria (called phagocytosis). In fact, the medical professionals that I follow suggest fevers are actually beneficial as the muscle heats up to pull ionizable calcium from the bones when needed to fight an infection. That’s why you shouldn’t treat a fever unless it gets too high. By consuming ionizable calcium your body (and that of your dogs) is better able to fight off the infection without needing to generate a fever. More info than you asked for, hope it is useful info. 🙂

[Shawna]

Aimee,

I’m sure you are more than aware that I was discussing AAFCO nutrient profiles (which are set at 18% as a minimum) versus NRC? You have such a way of spinning things…..

“Balance IT could be an option but I personally wouldn’t have fed my KD girl such a low protein diet.” I gave my opinion about BalanceIT. The OP can take it or leave it.

Could you point me in the direction of OTC foods that have kidney friendly herbs etc? I missed those when I was planning out Audrey’s diet. In case you missed, I have stated that the Darwin’s diet is not suitable for all stages of KD (however not this time as I think it very likely could be quite appropriate — could being the operative word).

[Shawna]

Hi Jan f,

I think the issue for most opposing these foods is the, what we perceive to be, lower quality ingredients. It is not necessarily the food however that is helping but rather in changing the food you have eliminated something the dog was reacting to in the old food. My Pom gets ulcerative colitis from chicken. ANY food that has chicken muscle protein in it will set her off. She would actually do poorly on the W/D because of the “chicken meal” in it. Other dogs, like yours, will improve on it. Doesn’t mean it is the only, and certainly not the best, food for a dog with colitis though.

Marvistavet says this about colitis and foods
“Elimination Diet: Colitis can result from a food intolerance (an example would be lactose intolerance from which numerous people suffer). Intolerances can result from dyes, preservatives, contaminants or even natural proteins in the food. Similarly, colitis can result from an actual food allergy. The solution for these intolerances is the feeding a “pure” diet, ideally a home cooked food made with carbohydrates and proteins that are novel or new to the patient. An 8-10 week diet course is typically needed and no other chews or treats can be offered during the time of the trial. Food allergy cannot be diagnosed by blood test or skin test. At this time, response to elimination diet is the only test for food allergy or intolerance. Most people are not in a position to home cook an appropriate food for the pet. Fortunately, several novel protein diets and hydrolyzed protein diets have been developed. For more details on using an elimination diet, please visit our food allergy page.” http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_colitis.html

A “home cooked diet” is going to provide, pending it is balanced, much better nutrition than a food with an ingredient list that starts “Whole Grain Wheat, Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Whole Grain Sorghum, Soybean Mill Run, Chicken Liver Flavor, Pork Fat, Soybean Oil” (personal opinion of course).

Edit — I don’t believe that these foods are necessarily harmful, at face value at least, but they do not supply the same nutrients from more species appropriate ingredients/foods.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

Thanks C4D!! MUCH appreciated!!

I just reread and noticed all the grammatical and spelling errors. YIKES I really shouldn’t post when I don’t have time to proofread. 🙂 Oh well

[Shawna]

Hi Sheila23,

Although a homemade diet is absolutely doable I would do a LOT more research before you decide on any one brand. Example — Tripe is a great food for kd dogs but it is supposedly already balanced in calcium to phosphorus. Adding a premix like Preference, that is designed to balance higher phosphorus meat, could be problematic. Although phosphorus needs to be watched, you can go too low too early in the disease.

Balance IT could be an option but I personally wouldn’t have fed my KD girl such a low protein diet (ESPECIALLY in the early stages). Based on the nutrient profile of their beef and rice early stage kd diet the protein amount is only 15.3%. That’s ridiculously low for early stage kd without any complicating issues like proteinuria. Not even enough to meet the minimum protein amounts required for an a complete and balanced diet. They also use corn oil — EEEEKK. The chicken & rice recipe is even worse at 14.9% protein.

If you can afford it, I would highly recommend looking at Darwin’s prescription KD diet formulated by vet Dr. Barbara Royal. The ingredient list is
“Human-Grade Meat: Beef Meat, Beef Tripe, Beef Pancreas, Beef Lungs, Beef Kidneys, Beef Liver, Beef Heart, Beef Spleen.

Vegetables: Cabbage, Celery, Squash, Sweet Potato, Beets, Romaine Lettuce.

Special Nutrient Mix: Filtered Water (for processing), Sardine oil (source of EPA, DPA and DHA), Egg Shell Powder, Parsley, Apple Cider Vinegar, Inulin, Cornsilk, Dandelion Root, Cinnamon, Cranberry, Linden Flowers, , Chitosan, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin E, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin D3, Aloe Vera.” http://www.darwinspet.com/our-raw-foods/our-raw-dog-food/intelligent-design-ks/

I LOVE that you are starting Alvin on Standard Process Renal Support. It is the one supplement that my Audrey NEVER did without since diagnosis. She had KD from birth (symptoms showed at just 6 weeks of age) but she wasn’t diagnosed till she was 13 months old. She was given one year to live after that. She lived to almost her ninth birthday and it was an infection that took her life not the normal progression of kidney disease.

Some other things to look at for Alvin — purified water (as much as he wants), extra water soluble vitamins if he urinates large volumes of water. A high quality probiotic and a prebiotic made with acacia fiber helps to clear BUN etc from the blood allowing for higher protein to be fed or simply helps clear BUN when necessary. This is called “nitrogen trapping”. Giving Evian (or another higher calcium, lower sodium mineral water) has been shown to be beneficial for kidney disease. I did give my Audrey fresh, raw garlic most of her life. I still believe that if I hadn’t gotten lazy and quit giving it to her near the end of her life she wouldn’t have developed the severe infection that ended up damaging her kidneys and taking her life. Enzymes to help with the digestion of his food. Certain supplements and herbs can be helpful — spirulina provides many nutrients, food grade activated charcoal given off an on in small amounts can help clear toxins, organic turmeric helps with inflammation and also helps prevent scar tissue (works best when combined with pepper or the enzyme bromelain from pineapple). Chlorella is a wonderful detoxer and it helps build red blood cells due to the high amounts of chlorphyll in it. Apple cider vinegar can help with indigestion (fed with food in small amounts or given via syringe but must be diluted first). Ginger extract and therapeutic grade peppermint oil can help with nausea (later in the illness). I also recently read that there is other therapeutic grade essential oils that can help the kidneys but I don’t remember the particulars of the article. Vet Dr. Melissa Shelton would be the person to seek out if wanting to incorporate essential oils.

I was lucky with Audrey, she was able to eat commercial raw products clear up to a few months before she passed. I’m not sure if that was because of the supplements, being fed raw from weaning or what but she did quite well. Possibly look at lower phosphorus commercial foods and then add small amounts of low phosphorus toppers (lightly cooked egg whites and coconut oil as an example) to keep the calories up while lowering the overall phosphorus even more. There are some great nutritionists out there as well that could be quite beneficial to you and Alvin.

Hoping Alvin does as well as, or better than, my Audrey!!!

Thank you Marie!

[Shawna]

David M,

Diatomaceous Earth (food grade only) is pretty effective at controlling fleas. It can be messy though. It’s a flour like texture and is applied to the coat of the dog. It doesn’t prevent fleas from getting on the dog but once they do the diatoms have edges that slice the endoskeleton of the bug (flea). The flea then dehydrates and dies. You have to be careful during application that it is not inhaled as it can damage the lungs but one on works for a week or two (or until the pup is bathed). It’s inexpensive and an be applied as much as needed. It can dry out the skin if used excessively though.

Only one of my six ever has an issue with fleas (mostly at the end of the season when the weather starts to change). I use DE exclusively on her and it works every time. She’s a Pom so application is tedious to get down to the skin but she’s small so not horrible. I separate her fur, drop a large pinch on the skin and then rub in. I only put it in the areas I see / feel flea dirt versus all over.

[Shawna]

No, I don’t think limonene has been pulled. Merck Vet Manual discusses it.

“d-Limonene

d-Limonene is used for flea control on cats and for other insect pests. At recommended dosages, the solution containing d-limonene appears to be safe. Increasing the concentration 5 to 10 times in sprays or dips increases the severity of toxic signs. These signs can include drooling, tremors, lack of coordination, and dangerously low body temperature. In dogs, ingestion of d‑limonene by mouth causes vomiting.” http://www.merckvetmanual.com/pethealth/special_subjects/poisoning/insecticide_poisoning.html

I wholeheartedly agree that just because something is natural doesn’t make it inherently safe. That was not the argument here though, it was whether natural is “effective” or not. When evaluating safety you have to look at quality of product too.

[Shawna]

I think when one wants to see the world as black and white, it will be black and white regardless of what research is or is not available (not meaning you aimee).

“About 70 plant extracts were tested for their ability to repel the attacks of blood-sucking arthropods. It was found that a CO2 extract of the seeds of the Mediterranean plant Vitex agnus castus (monk’s pepper) can be used as a spray to keep away especially Ixodes ricinus and Rhipicephalus sanguineus ticks from animals and humans for at least 6 h. In addition mosquitoes, biting flies and fleas are also repelled for about 6 h.” http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00436-004-1297-z

“The interest in the use of monoterpenes for insect pest and pathogen control originates from the need for pesticide products with less negative environmental and health impacts than highly effective synthetic pesticides. The expanding literature on the possibility of the use of these monoterpenes is reviewed and focused on the effects of limonene on various bioorganisms. Limonene is used as insecticide to control ectoparasites of pet animals, but it has activity against many insects, mites, and microorganisms.” http://www.oaj.tsv.fi/index.php/AFS/article/view/5697

There are more if one only took the time to actually look.

[Shawna]

Hi Paul R,

They now know that dogs with kidney disease actually need good amounts of protein in the diet as it helps with the blood flow (aka GFR) and therefore keeping the blood clean. The exception to that rule is when the dog has high amounts of protein in the urine as that is a sign of inflammation of the kidneys. The protein should be lowered until the reason for the inflammation has been found and addressed — possibly a bacterial infection, stones, food sensitivity (they know in humans that gluten can cause increased proteinuria – I would assume reactions to foods can be the same in dogs). Here’s some data on that “A gluten-free diet induced in 75% of the cases a parallel improvement in these abnormal immunological data. Mean proteinuria values were found to be significantly decreased after 6 months of the diet and a reduction was also observed in microscopic hematuria.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2311308

May not be the case with your pup but I think it is often overlooked as a possibility.

My dog had kidney disease from birth and lived nine years. I fed her a raw diet but once in a while I was running in and out or really sick for a few days and would give her some kibble. Each time I gave her kibble I had to deal with the consequences of doing so for several days after. I would highly advise against ANY kibble, even prescription. The new prescription Science Diets are chicken and beef based and look appealing. If you can’t home cook and don’t want to feed raw it would be something to try while you are trying to deal with the proteinuria. I would also give a high quality omega 3 fish oil as it is anti-inflammatory etc. Another to try is organic (must be organic) turmeric (the spice). Turmeric is anti-inflammatory as well as anti-fibrotic, which are both helpful for the failing kidneys. Start with a small amount and build. Most dogs do well with it but my Audrey didn’t seem to tolerate it well. 🙁

Don’t give any more flea or tick meds or heartworm preventatives. Also no more vaccines. Some states will give rabies exemptions for pets with life threatening diseases. Take advantage of that if your state does.

It also helps to give reverse osmosis filtered water. There are so many impurities in most tap water. Always have water available. I would also look at a good probiotic and prebiotic. The right ones can help clear BUN etc from the blood which will help your pup feel better. This is called “nitrogen trapping” which was apparently discovered and coined by Iams researchers. I used a probiotic called Garden of Life Primal Defense (a human product) and a prebiotic called Fiber 35 Sprinkle Fiber (also human). I’ve heard that Sprinkle Fiber is no longer made but it was simply 100% pure acacia fiber. Any source of acacia fiber will work. Not all fibers work, some make things worse. I found this out the hard way. The one product I would not do without is made by Standard Process and is called Canine Renal Support. It helps in many many ways.

I hope something I’ve wrote is helpful for you and your sweet puppy!! Let me know if I can clarify anything or answer any questions etc.

Prayers to you both!!

[Shawna]

Hey Peggy,

There’s a product test being discussed a lot in the dog health circles on Facebook. The test is done on a saliva and hair sample and comes back with sensitivities and allergies plus more. Many of us have used it for our pets with really GREAT results. It’s cost effective too. The company is called Glacier Peak Holistics.

I have a sensitivity to dairy and my scalp gets sooooo itchy I scratch till it bleeds while I’m sleeping. A shampoo with tea tree oil in it works GREAT to keep the itch at bay for several days. There are dog shampoos with tea tree. When I was going through this with my dog I used witch hazel with aloe and lavender and it seemed to really sooth Audrey’s VERY inflamed skin. (I did an elimination diet with her as it was LONG before I knew about GPHs)

I didn’t know as much about essential oils back when I went through this with my Audrey but I would totally try them now. They have been shown to cure cancer, have antimicrobial benefits and so much more. Dr. Melissa Shelton DVM is the guru of EOs for animals. I wonder if her Skin Spray Base might benefit your pups? http://www.animaleo.info/skin-spray-base.html

Good luck!!!!!

[Shawna]

As one who actually USES holistic medications, I can say they actually DO work and work very well. In fact, there’s even SCIENCE that shows that those “food supplements” actually cure autoimmune diseases (actually, they use the word ameliorates but same thing). It’s called oral tolerization, check it out.

Here’s one to get you started
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162357

The New York Times has a great article on oral tolerization titled “‘Hair of Dog’ Tried as Cure For Autoimmune Disease” http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/18/science/hair-of-dog-tried-as-cure-for-autoimmune-disease.html?pagewanted=all

Pretty impressive if you ask me.

[Shawna]

I just now realized this thread is a year old. I guess I assumed it was current when Bobby Dog linked to it on the review side.

[Shawna]

Although new information is coming out all the time, I have not been able to find medical resources that suggest a lowering of protein for pancreatitis. I’m not seeing it in the research I pulled up either.

“This enzyme stimulation leads to the need to differentiate among diets based on fat content. When minimal pancreatic exocrine stimulation is desired, patients should receive fat-controlled diets (e.g., clear liquid, low-fat full liquid, low-fat regular, very low-fat regular, and no-fat regular). The amount of protein given (10–40% of the total calories) has not been associated with a significant difference in pancreatic enzyme secretion.”

In fact this study suggests, in people at least, that protein should be increased due to poor digestion. “These changes in amino acid release and metabolism have led to the belief that branched-chain amino acid and glutamine-enriched amino acid solutions might be
of particular benefit in patients with pancreatitis. Although this idea makes sense from a physiological standpoint, controlled, clinical trials are still needed to confirm this theory. In general, at least 1.5 g/kg/day of protein are required to improve nitrogen balance. However, it is difficult to improve nitrogen balance to the point of normalization in these patients, with even more protein likely indicated if pancreatitis is combined with sepsis or
other complications” https://www.accp.com/docs/bookstore/psap/p5b7sample04.pdf

[Shawna]

I’m right there with you aimee. Mind over matter is quite powerful. Not sure however how my dog would improve by eliminating something she was eating before with just mind over matter. Did she know I was purposefully eliminating the food?

Edit — I ask you this, if using the test has helped as many folks as has suggested it has (many of which I don’t personally know), does it matter if science can demonstrate a connection? Fact is, it worked for what it was intended for. I’ve only heard just a very few positive results like that for IgE food testing (which we know has issues). It’s not simply someone wanting it to be or IgE testing would be just as powerful.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

Red,

“I don’t believe blanket statements about anything are a good thing or helpful, there are always exceptions.” I couldn’t agree more. Hence my use of the word “most”. I too have had my very own experience with traditional medicine, beginning when I was just 12 years old and temporarily going completely blind. Traditional (or, more accurately, allopathic) medicine FAILED me in every single way. It wasn’t until I was referred to a M.D. that treats holistically was a cause found. Sure I could have been on this drug or that drug and then three more to combat the side effects of the first one but that way of life isn’t for me.

My dog had a “serious condition” as well – kidney disease. Again, allopathic medicine failed me in every way except for the administration and demonstration of sub q fluids at the end of her life.

Allopathic veterinary guidance for my daughter’s dog (3 pound Chihuahua) that started having grand mal seizures was do nothing and bring her in if they start happening more often and we’ll start her on drugs. Mkay….. Holistic vet gave guidance on what toxins etc to avoid in the home, increased a nutrient she was already getting and added another mineral (magnesium). Peachy never had another seizure from that point forward.

I will say however, I had a minor emergency several weeks ago and I was quite grateful for the awesome care given by allopathic practitioners at the hospital. I will never deny that there definitely is a place and time for allopathic medicine.

[Shawna]

Red,

Most people I know have had poor luck going to a “specialist” and have spent way more than a little money upfront. For what it’s worth, my M.D. (who also has an advanced degree in nutrition (a Certified Clinical Nutritionist) told me traditional blood allergy testing for food is a waste of time as there are false positives and false negatives). The same holds true in the dog world. IgE testing is unreliable.

Aimee,

I don’t know how biofeedback works but I had the test done on my Cleo and it was spot on for things I knew were a problem. And not your typical proteins – goat as an example. I’ve eliminated a few other things that I hadn’t suspected and she’s improving. Her issues are neurological, which I assumed were vaccine related but apparently I was wrong. Dori also had great results with her Katie. All of the ones she knew were an issue showed and one she didn’t. When she withheld cucumber from Katie’s diet there was improvement. I’ve seen MANY additional positive reviews from folks that I follow or know through groups. I don’t know how it works, something about quantum physics I believe, and I was skeptical at first but I’m a believer now.

[Shawna]

PS — dry food is the worst thing you can feed a dog with kidney disease — due to the dehydration it can cause as well as the lower bioavailability of the protein.

[Shawna]

Stephanie W,

Digestibility of protein is important but bioavailability is even more important. The better the cells of the body use the amino acids in the digested protein, the less BUN is created from the protein. Raw and lightly cooked home prepared foods are going to have better bioavailability than canned and canned will be better than kibbled diets.

Most vets recommend “low” protein diets for dogs in any stage (and sometimes even before) of kidney disease. This is actually a myth and why most prescription foods are not really appropriate for the earlier stages of the disease. What may need to be controlled however is phosphorus so not all foods of good digestibility and bioavailability will be appropriate for all stages of chronic kidney disease. Here’s a VERY reliable source on the low protein myth.
“Mythology of Protein Restriction for Dogs with Reduced Renal Function
Kenneth C. Bovée, DVM, MMedSc, Department of Clinical Studies, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Results of the 10 experimental studies on dogs have failed to provide evidence of the benefit of reduced dietary protein to influence the course of renal failure.” http://www.dogaware.com/files/bovee.pdf

If you are willing to feed raw look at a prescription diet created by vet Dr. Barbara Royal sold by Darwins. Dr. Meg Smart has a homemade kidney diet on her blog. I also like the Wysong diet Red mentions. Just make sure the food you chose has the appropriate amount of phosphorus for the stage of disease your specific dog is in. Unlike protein, phosphorus CAN cause further damage to the kidneys.

Lots of prayers and good luck being sent your way!!!

[Shawna]

Red, environmental allergies definitely are much more common than food “allergies” but not necessarily more common than food intolerances or sensitivities. I have had over 30 dogs in my house and only one had an environmental allergy while MANY had food sensitivities and intolerances. In fact, four of the six currently in my home have a food sensitivity.

Edit — all of those symptoms you site can also been seen with food sensitivities and intolerances. In addition to those, they know that sensitivities and intolerances to a protein called a lectin can actually cause auto immune diseases as well. I had a food sensitivity that went undiagnosed for over 20 years until I found the right doctor – She is an MD and a Certified Clinical Nutritionist and treats holistically and with alternatives. My symptoms were as diverse as white matter brain lesions, temporary but complete vision loss, itching scalp (to the point I would make it bleed while sleeping), arthritic type pains, malnutrition due to villous atrophy (which led to iodine deficiency hypothyroid, b12 anemia and iron anemia as well as all the symptoms associated with those, and other, deficiencies). DON’T underestimate a food sensitivity or intolerance.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 11 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

It’s taken me almost 45 minutes to get logged in but I was determined. Had to create a new account but then it seems to have reverted back to my old so….?

Center for Companion Animal Health, UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine
Vol. 8, No. 2, Fall 2003
“A number of bacterial organisms commonly associated with diarrhea in dogs and cats include Salmonella, Campylobacter, Clostridium perfringens and Clostridium difficile.

Veterinarians are faced with a quandary when attempting to diagnose dogs and cats with suspected bacterial-associated diarrhea, because these organisms commonly represent a normal part of the host’s intestinal microflora.” http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ccah/local-assets/pdfs/newsletter_2003_fall.pdf

They’re already in there people. I’m surprised the vets among us aren’t aware of this information?

There are many many vets that recommend a raw, or at least a home prepared, diet. I could name 30 or so off the top of my head that could easily be verified online. But I’ll start with just one – not only is she a vet but she is a veterinary nutritionist and taught veterinary small animal nutrition for over 30 years. Dr. Meg Smart states in an interview on the AngryVet website “I see a benefit in feeding whole foods whether cooked or raw.” http://www.angryvet.com/angryvet-nutrition-interview-drs-joseph-wakshlag-and-meg-smart/ She also discusses and defends raw on her blog.

Dr. Elizabeth Hodkins co-wrote the book “Not Fit for a Dog” with Dr. Smart and one other. Dr. Hodkins used to work for Science Diet. In fact her LinkedIn page says this about her “She taught veterinary parasitology at UC Davis following her residency before leaving academia to join Hills Pet Nutrition for almost a decade.” She taught parasitology and yet she still recommends a raw food diet — INTERESTING… Hmmmm She talks about raw on her website catnutrition.org

• This reply was modified 9 years, 11 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 11 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

Morning Melissa,

Honestly I don’t know but six months comes to mind.. That could be way off though? I know once the worms are actually gone it still takes some time for the test to come back negative as the antigens are still present after the worms die off.

Regarding reinfection or infecting other dogs—-that’s why the doxy is so important in slow kill method. In killing the wolbachia bacteria, doxy actually sterilizes the adult worms. The infected dog can therefore not be a source of infection to other dogs. Since Ivermectin kills the microfiliria, wouldn’t it take care of any potential reinfection?

There is apparently a specific cycle (doxy is given intermittently) that makes the ivermectin / doxy the most effective. For that reason, and others, I would always suggest one work with a qualified vet who is knowledgeable with the method (or at least willing to do the research).

I would also feel completely comfortable using herbs IF I was under the supervision of Dr. Goldstein or one of his colleagues. And likewise (after her own trial is completed) I would feel completely comfortable using therapeutic grade essential oils under the supervision of Dr. Shelton. She wrote The Animal Desk Reference on essential oils and is the leading expert on EO’s for pets (including lizards, birds, zoo animals and other exotics).. I just attended a class in Des Moines Iowa on EO’s for pets. The guest vet, Dr. Fox, had some pretty impressive results on some pretty nasty illnesses and received journal exposure on one of the cases. I’m continuously amazed at the healing power of nature!!!!

PS — in this linked paper they are suggesting a couple months of treatment with doxy and ivermectin before using immiticide. First though, here’s a blurb about infective status of dogs given doxy “Mosquitoes that fed on blood from DOXY-treated dogs had L3 normal in appearance but were not infective for dogs.” “Preliminary observations suggest that administration of DOXY+IVM for several months prior to (or without) MEL will eliminate adult HW with less potential for severe thromboembolism than MEL alone.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18930598

[Shawna]

PSS — wolbachia also causes the damaging inflammation in heartworm.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

It’s important to give doxy whether doing the slow kill or the immitricide as it kills the wolbachia which is what causes havoc at die off. LOTS of vets and others are successfully using methods other than immitricide. For those that feel comfortable using it, do so. But for those that don’t, like myself, it is good to know that there are options. Here’s some of them.

Dr. Karen Becker – “As it turns out, low-dose ivermectin therapy in dogs with no sensitivity to the drug, in combination with the antibiotic doxycycline, can be an extremely effective, inexpensive option for treating heartworm infection.

The cost was about 50-75 percent cheaper than Immiticide and all four cases of infection cleared beautifully.

The only time I’ll consider using Immiticide in the future (once it becomes available), is when I have an ivermectin-sensitive patient.” http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/11/22/cheaper-safer-therapy-for-heartworm.aspx

Dr. Marty Goldstein (vet to the rich and famous) uses herbs and food to clear heartworm. He also feels monthly heartworm preventatives are a leading cause of cancer in our pets. He discusses it in his book “The Nature of Animal Healing”.

Dr. Melissa Shelton is treating her heartworm infected rescued dog with Young Living essential oils.

Additionally, Dr. Shelton discusses a person she personally spoke with who cleared a SEVERE case of heartworm in her rescue senior pup using alternatives.. “She had taken the dog to the University to have an echocardiogram performed. The heartworm infection was so severe, that they recommended endoscopic removal of the worms from the heart — they gave the dog a very guarded prognosis, even with that procedure. No matter which treatment they chose – it was a very grim outlook for this little dog.

She decided to try a natural approach. What did she have to lose?…….

Not only did the little dog not die, but all of the heartworm died without major side effects. The dog is still alive today, and doing well.” This case was cured using essential oils. http://www.crowriveranimalhospital.com/pdf/15-2010%20Heartworm%20%28Dogs%29.pdf

Research has shown that garlic and ginger alcohol extract both kill heartworms. My guess is that garlic also kills the wolbachia bacteria.

I would never tell anyone to not use immitricide if they were more comfortable with that route. I am intelligent (at least I think I am) :), I’ve researched this topic thoroughly and I personally, without even a moments reservation, would use the slow kill method with my fur kids.

The heart is a muscle. IF a few heartworms did in fact do some damage to the heart, it is quite capable of repairing itself. But, to help things along, I would certain give Standard Process Cardiac Support while doing the slow kill method.

PS — remember Dave’s Hounds? He used the slow kill method with his senior rescue hound dog successfully.. I know quite a few people (including REALLY ill pets) that have recovered using slow kill method.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

Small afterthought — Dr. Smart also recommends the avoidance of beets in a kd diet while Dr. Royal includes beets in the Darwins kd diet — soooooo……..????

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

When tested at the time of diagnosis, Audrey’s BUN hovered around 57/58 and got as high as 77 when I was experimenting with her diet. Interestingly her creatinine went down when her BUN was up that high. She eats a high protein (45 to 54% dry matter) diet so not unusual for her BUN to be a bit high to begin with. Her phosphorus has never been high when checked so she’s not eating low phos or taking binders. Dogaware.com would be a good place to get some additional info on binders etc.

Your puppy is lucky to have found you!!! Some other things you can try is eliminating as many of the chemicals in your home that you can. When I first learned of Audrey’s illness I looked at the ingredient lists of all the items I used in my house and then check the CDC and/or Material Safety Data Sheets for the products. If they gave any warning about the kidneys — they were gone.

Supporting the liver can help too. I’ve had Audrey on Standard Process Canine Hepatic Support off and on as well as the Renal Support.

Interesting that they use lamb and spinach in the Just food for dogs kd food. I’ve read (and had discussions on DFA) about lamb being the hardest protein to digest. And Veterinary Nutritionist warns against feeding spinach to dogs with kidney disease (I believe because of the high amounts of oxalates). http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

My brain is shutting down so I best head off to bed.

Wishing you and your baby wonderful results and optimal health!!.. Please ask any more questions you might have and update me, if you think about it, on what you decided for her and how she does with it!!!

[Shawna]

OH NO!!! Pegripley and Kari K — I’m so sorry I missed your posts!!! My time is somewhat limited and for a long time I wasn’t able to log in to the forum side. Still don’t know why that happened?? If you still having questions please email me at shawnadfaemail@yahoo.com

Kim S – I use the Sprinkle Fiber in conjunction with the Primal Defense probiotic as needed (if Audrey seems depressed, or her breath gets a bit unpleasant etc). Audrey is nine pounds — I give her 1/2 to 1 full sized Primal Defense and 1/8 teaspoon of Sprinkle Fiber. I then give her more Sprinkle Fiber at the same dosage for subsequent meals until she is feeling better (usually, with her, only two or three meals). Audrey gets probiotic foods fairly often so I usually don’t have to give her more than one Primal Defense.

As mentioned in other post — I HIGHLY recommend Standard Process Canine Renal Support as well. And a raw diet if doable. Dr. Barbara Royal created a raw kidney disease diet for Darwins. http://www.darwinspet.com/our-raw-foods/our-raw-dog-food/intelligent-design-ks/#sthash.D8huiK2g.dpbs

[Shawna]

Hi Kim S,

Pugmomsandy sent me an email letting me know you might have some questions for me. Thanks Sandy!!

Nitrogen trapping has been very very useful in helping to keep Audrey feeling well. When her breath gets a bit funky or she seems depressed I give her Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotics and Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber as the probiotic (both are products marketed for humans). I tried other “fermentable” fibers (like barley, apple pectin etc) but Sprinkle Fiber had the best results.

The product I absolutely MUST have for her however is Standard Process Canine Renal Support. She’s been on it for over seven years. I can explain why I feel so strongly about this product if you wish — kinda technical.

Some other things that I rotate in her diet are spirulina, chlorella, food grade activated charcoal, burdock root (another really good fermentable fiber (but she got tired of the strong taste)), milk thistle and more. I mix five or so super foods/supps with an equal amount of enzymes and sprinkle on most of her meals.

Turmeric would be very beneficial for dogs with kidney disease as well but sadly Audrey doesn’t tolerate it well.

Giving ultra clean (like RO) water is important too. Evian water is both clean and a good source of a specific kind of calcium called calcium bicarbonate. Mineral waters higher in calcium (and lower in sodium) have shown some benefits for kidney disease.

I would recommend raw to any that can feed it, gently home cooked if raw is not an option or canned if raw and home cooked are not options.

Absolutely no chemicals like flea/tick or heartworm meds and no vaccines (including rabies).

I’m not sure how much info you’re wanting so sorry if I went overboard. 🙂 There’s tons more I can tell you if interested (like keep oil soluble chlorophyll on hand in case of anemia).

[Author]

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