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Shawna

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  • in reply to: Heartworms, need advice. #34742 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    And, as Dori stated so well, there is really no way to know for sure what happened — refrigeration, splitting the drug, resistance etc.. Don’t blame yourself.. Know that you caught it early and Turbo is in the best situation possible for clearing these with no residual problems.

    in reply to: Heartworms, need advice. #34740 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    I’m not sure I’m following losul.. It takes six months, per those sites, for heartworm larvae to mature to adult worms and make offspring. So if heartworm babies, microfilariae, were detected in the blood than he’s had the infection for at least six months now.

    I agree that he couldn’t have been infected after the last heartworm dose was given. It would have happened several months before then or there couldn’t be detectable microfilariea.

    I’m also not sure that giving extra doses of a drug that heartworm are “resistant” to is going to improve the outcome? Either they are resistant or they aren’t. Giving antibiotic resistant bacteria extra doses of the antibiotic they are resistant to doesn’t improve resistance. Not sure why it would in heartworm either? Seems to me like a ploy to sell more preventative.

    You wrote “New adults could still move in after the old ones die”… That is true but NOT in the winter when mosquitos aren’t active. Heartgard kills the L1, L3 and L4 stage heartworms but not L5. The adulticide kills the L5 (and maybe late stage L4?). But L1 microfilariea swimming around in the blood CAN’T become adult worms without first being sucked up by a mosquito where they transform from L1 to L3. The only way for Turbo to get new adult worms is if he gets bit by L3 carrying mosquitos— which won’t be happening now. They would give heartgard or another product that kills L1-L4 in advance to assure that all L3 and L4 maturing larvae are killed and the adulticide to kill the adults. The circulating L1 are not a threat to Turbo unless they are first transformed by a mosquito but they too would be killed by the preventative. If I’m not being clear — at this very moment in time, he can’t get any new adult worms unless he is bitten by a mosquito carrying stage L3 larvae. And that would be RARE to happen in cold temps. All you have to worry about is the small load he has right now… Again, this is one of the reasons why I think Turbo is a good candidate for fast kill. We know the worm load is low and will be when the adulticide is administered AND Turbo is in very good health…

    • This reply was modified 10 years ago by Shawna.
    in reply to: Heartworms, need advice. #34730 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Missed the data posted regarding heartgard plus and dosing… Thanks also for posting that Dori!!!! Both the call and quote confirms things I was already thinking… 🙂

    in reply to: Heartworms, need advice. #34722 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Dori,

    THANK YOU for checking in to that.. I was pretty sure about that but not positive. Now we know for sure!! I also had no idea, until Losul brought it up, about the refrigeration thing. Hopefully they have that printed on the box somewhere. Guessing if it is it is not in bold print… 🙁

    I can see your pups better in the forums avatar.. They are just too adorable!!!!

    in reply to: Heartworms, need advice. #34718 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Oops, forgot this..

    IF refrigerating the product does cause issues, that could be another reason it failed.

    And

    Heatguard kills L3 and L4 stage larvae. I’m not sure why one would need to continue giving it up to three months after heartworm season ended. If giving every 30 to 45 days it should kill any L3 and L4 still maturing under the skin??

    in reply to: Heartworms, need advice. #34710 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hey Losul,

    You may have already made your decision on what to do and what product to use but either way I think it is important for you to know the heartworm life cycle.

    Microfilaraie circulating in the bloodstream, from my understanding, CAN NOT become adult worms without first going through L1 to L3 changes IN A mosquito. With this in mind, I don’t see how the worm burden can increase during these frigid winter months. Check with your vet to make sure about this but here’s some data.

    FDA — “Microfilariae cannot become infective larvae without first passing through a mosquito. When the infected mosquito bites another dog, the mosquito spreads the infective larvae to the dog through the bite wound. In the newly infected dog, it takes between six and seven months for the infective larvae to mature into adult heartworms.” http://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/resourcesforyou/animalhealthliteracy/ucm188470.htm

    From what this and others are saying — Turbo has had this infection for at least six or seven months but maybe longer for there to be detectable L1 microfilariae in the blood.

    American Heartworm Society — “Microfilariae cannot mature into adult heartworms without first passing through a mosquito.” http://www.heartwormsociety.org/pet-owner-resources/heartworm.html#lifecycle

    Trifexis website — “Microfilariae are actually microscopic larvae. They live in the blood of most heartworm-infected dogs. Microfilariae are ingested by a mosquito that feeds on an infected animal, where they molt twice over a period of about 2 weeks and develop into infective larvae…. An infected dog will typically be carrying microfilariae within 6 to 7 months after first being infected by the initial mosquito bite. And the cycle continues.” http://www.trifexis.com/about-parasites/about-heartworms/heartworm-lifecycle.aspx

    There hasn’t been enough time for the infection to have been caused by not giving the preventative in November and after — the infection had to have happened before that. Which also means that the heartguard you were using wasn’t working (unless you missed giving – which I doubt). I also thought I read that heartguard should not be divided into multiple doses as the medication is not uniform throughout the product. Someone please correct me if that is incorrect.

    If the above mention of splitting is correct, you could have given one dose with medication in it. The very next day Turbo could have been bitten by a mosquito. The next month you could have given the non-medicated portion and then again when splitting the next month non-medicated could have been given. By the time the next dose carrying medication is given the larvae could have developed to L5 stage (young adult) where heartgard (and others) are ineffective. OR, the mosquito’s in your area are ivermectin resistant.

    • This reply was modified 10 years ago by Shawna.
    • This reply was modified 10 years ago by Shawna.
    in reply to: Heartworms, need advice. #34636 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi losul,

    I came across the information posted below while researching for a conversation I was having with HDM.. As I’ve stated before, I do think Turbo is a good candidate for the fast kill method. You are a great dog parent and his immune system is so much better than most dogs in this situation!!! Oh, you should be able to contact your local extension office and find out what type of mosquitos are common for your area. You might then be able to determine which medications best work against those particular strains.

    Also, I was really happy to hear your vet was open to options :). And that he was willing to postpone the rabies vacc.. I feel more comfortable about him after learning that.

    Slow kill Ivermectin treatments are being used to kill a parasite in humans called onchocerciasis.

    “Most widely known for causing “river blindness,” Onchocerca volvulus infection affects an estimated 17.7 million people worldwide in 34 countries in Africa, the Middle East, South America, and Central America. An estimated 500,000 people and 270,000 people experience secondary visual impairment and blindness, respectively [1]…..

    The standard treatment for onchocerciasis is ivermectin (150-µ g/kg given orally ever 6 to 12 months). Ivermectin is a highly lipophilic [49], 16-membered macrocyclic lactone from Streptomyces avermitilis [50]. Single-dose ivermectin effectively kills microfilariae by blocking postsynaptic, glutamate-gated chloride ion channels, inhibiting transmission, and paralyzing the nematode. It also appears to enhance immune responses against O. volvulus in the treated host [23].”

    They go on to state that because Ivermectin doesn’t control the adult worms the patient has to be treated (in this case every 6 to 12 months) for the life of the adult worms. This is the same with heartworm in dogs other than monthly treatment in dogs versus once to twice a year with human infections. My guess is the life cycle of the O. volvulus is different than heartworms — it discusses life cycle in the article but I didn’t read it.

    They very briefly talk about moxidectin for potential use to kill adult worms but as of this writing it’s not used.

    “A new approach to therapy targets endosymbiotic Wolbachia bacteria. In 2000, a landmark study first showed [74] that doxycycline cleared Wolbachia bacterial endosymbionts from the endodermis and uteri of adult female worms, leading to unusually extensive worm sterility not seen in other antifilarial treatments.”

    They use the “slow kill” method to treat this horrible disease in humans but are looking in to less toxic options for a fast kill (namely moxidectin).”

    And we’ve both heard numerous accounts of dogs doing well on the fast kill option. Dogs not in nearly as good of health as Turbo. Trust that whatever your decision you have put your boy in the best position possible to fight this with no lasting after effects…

    I wonder if prevention could be cycled in case a resistance is potentially part of the problem? Could you use an Ivermectin product for three months and then the product recommended by your vet for three months. If you decide to give the product only during mosquito season it is important to watch the weather and give the last dose one month AFTER the last possible chance of infection happening and to begin the following season one month after the weather is warm enough for infection to occur. I completely understand if you decide to give year round protection.. 🙂

    in reply to: Heartworms, need advice. #34614 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    I know you will be very thorough losul! Turbo is in GREAT hands!!

    in reply to: Heartworms, need advice. #34597 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    I just posted this to HDM on the regular site but thought you might not see it..

    “The doxy makes the worms sterile so resistance shouldn’t be an issue with any worms picked up from the doxy treated dog. One of the benefits of giving doxy is that it makes the dog no longer infective to other dogs.

    From heartwormsociety.org “Microfilariae from dogs treated with doxycycline that were ingested by mosquitoes developed into third-stage larvae that appeared to be normal in appearance and motility, but these larvae were not able to develop into adult worms, thus reducing the risk of selecting for resistant sub-populations.” http://www.heartwormsociety.or…

    I see advantages to the fast kill as well as slow kill methods. I personally would use the slow kill with SP Canine Cardiac Support and herbs mentioned in Dr. Goldsteins book for heartworm treatment plus. But I understand Losul’s desire to get the worms out as soon as possible too… And Turbo seems to be a good candidate for the fast kill method when doxy and heatguard (or another form) are used first to lessen the risks of immiticide treatment.

    I’d give raw eggs to keep glutathione levels up. Cardiac support by giving an organ supplement or giving organic heart. I like Standard Process because it has anti-inflammatory factors that work specific to the organ being used for as well as “food” for the specific organ. Anti-inflamatories like turmeric. I personally would give small amounts of garlic and use probiotics regularly. etc etc etc Chlorella is an excellent detoxer.

    Edit — been a HORRIBLY busy at work last few days.. I’ve missed much of what has been discussed :(..”

    Another thing to consider is that although nobody wants to get that diagnosis, it is really not as bad as some try to make it. You caught it early. Even before symptoms appeared. He has every chance of doing well no matter which way you go. After re-reading your post I do see where your vet is recommending doxy and heartworm before the immiticide. That makes me feel more comfortable with his recommendation!!! 🙂

    Here’s a link that may not provide new info but hopefully will take a little of the scare out of the diagnosis.. This is naturopathic vet Dr. Jeannie Thomason’s site http://www.thewholedog.org/heartworm.html

    PS — I found several folks that had dogs with a minor infection like Turbo’s. One said her dog was free of heartworm nine months after starting the slow kill method. Some of the results you are hearing from could be from immune compromised dogs as well. Turbo is way ahead of the pack in that regards. That is also why I would be less freaked about the fast kill method for him!!! You’re a good puppy parent and Turbo has every chance of having no complications because of it.

    I’ve always read to use ivermectin when doing slow kill. I’d do more research before choosing slow kill and anything but ivermectin. A quick google search says this about moxidectin “Ivermectin is the medication most commonly used to kill the microfilaria (larval stage.) There are other medications that will kill them (such as milbemycin) but ivermectin kills more slowly. When too many microfilaria die at once, it can cause shock and collapse for the dog. Thus, ivermectin is preferred because of the slower kill rate. Other products like selamectin and moxidectin do not kill the microfilaria efficiently enough to clear them reliably. Fortunately, ivermectin is available in several monthly heartworm preventive medications. Examples are Heartgard ®, Tri-Heart® and others.” http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/diseasesandconditions/a/CW-HeartwormTreatments.htm

    Of course, one comment on vetmedicine site is not enough to base something like this on but do research more before deciding. I’ll try to check it out too.

    Did you ask him his reasoning for recommending the rabies vacc at this time? Is it that he is not aware of the problems, disagrees that problems could arise, thinks they are overstated or what? Does your state allow exemptions? Why not put it off?

    Here’s data from several people that have actually USED the slow kill method and cleared heartworm. And likely these are dogs that are nowhere near as healthy as Turbo however I don’t know that. Just a guess. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?365271-Slow-Kill-Heartworm-treatment

    It’s also the method that most rescue use around here. And again I would try to get Dave’s Hounds input. BUT, when it really comes down to it you will do what you think is best for Turbo and EVERYONE here that is truly your friend will support your decision because we all know that you are the one that has to live with that decision not us… We all will support you no matter what your choice. And as stated before, I think Turbo is a good candidate for the immiticide option as he is young, healthy and has the right person in his corner!!!!!!

    • This reply was modified 10 years ago by Shawna.
    in reply to: Heartworms, need advice. #34588 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Losul,

    SOOOO sorry to hear about Turbo’s issues :(…

    Here is what Dr. Becker says about heartworm treatment (and no, what your vet recommended is not the slow kill method).
    “As it turns out, low-dose ivermectin therapy in dogs with no sensitivity to the drug, in combination with the antibiotic doxycycline, can be an extremely effective, inexpensive option for treating heartworm infection.

    The cost was about 50-75 percent cheaper than Immiticide and all four cases of infection cleared beautifully.

    The only time I’ll consider using Immiticide in the future (once it becomes available), is when I have an ivermectin-sensitive patient.” http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/11/22/cheaper-safer-therapy-for-heartworm.aspx

    Dave’s Hounds has been using the slow kill treatment with his older, adopted Hound Dog and things, last reported, seem to be going well. Might be worth talking with him!!!!

    Mary Straus at Dog Aware website has some fantastic information on heartworm and the slow kill method. Doxy basically makes the worms sterile which prevents the existing ones from reproducing. Since your vet says stage 1 there assumably aren’t an overload of them. Steralizing the ones that are there would be a good idea. Doxy also makes it so Turbo can’t infect any other dogs. Doxy also kills the bacteria that hitches a ride w/ the heartworm. It is thought that the bacteria, called wolbachia, die off is what causes a lot of the dangers with the fast kill method. As well as clogging due to mass die off of the worms. You can pulse the doxy and ivermectin for a few months and then do the immiticide or you can stay on the doxy/ivermectin long term from my understanding.

    “These studies clearly indicate that treatment with a combination of weekly ivermectin and daily doxycycline given intermittently will sterilize the heartworms, prevent the dog from being infectious to other dogs, speed up the death of the worms prior to (or in place of) Immiticide treatment, limit inflammation and damage caused by the worms’ presence, and reduce the chance of serious adverse reaction from Immiticide treatment.” http://dogaware.com/articles/newsheartworm.html

    And more on dogaware http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjheartwormtreatment.html

    He’s young and strong enough that he could probably handle the immiticide but if the slow kill is just as effective without as many complications…….. At the very least, do a round of doxy and ivermectin BEFORE the immiticide.

    I can not believe the vet would recommend a rabies shot knowing that Turbo has heartworm AND wanting to do the immiticide treatment??? That’s just asking for trouble in my opinion. Just my opinion though….

    I did not know that heartguard should not be refrigerated? Thanks for mentioning that in your post!

    I would also consider giving, or continuing, supportive care such as giving high quality probiotics, anti-inflammatories etc. I would also suggest looking into a product called Canine Cardiac Support by Standard Process. Here’s a brief primer on it but more can be found (or even call the company) http://www.animalrehabstlouis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cardiac_support.pdf

    I have no suggestions or ideas for the trembling… 🙁

    I personally would get a second opinion before starting heartworm treatment be it slow or fast kill. I would simply need that piece of mind. I wouldn’t tell the new clinic that he had already been found positive either..

    in reply to: Renal failure #32112 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Dorenda,

    Took a few tries but I was able to log on.. Thanks Patty for the email heads up :)..

    Vets often suggest low protein for renal disease when it really isn’t necessary. There are studies even that show dogs that have protein lowered to drastically too early in the disease have increased mortality. There’s some fantastic information on the topic on nutritionist Mary Straus’ website (see quote below). My dog has had kidney disease since birth and has been on high protein raw her whole life (45 to 54%) — she’ll be eight years old the end of June 2014.

    “Based on research done in the last ten years (see s a Low Protein Diet Necessary or Desirable?), that the only time it is necessary to feed a low protein diet is when your dog is uremic, which generally means BUN is over 80 mg/dL (equivalent to 28.6 mmol/L), creatinine is over 4.0 mg/dL (equivalent to 354 µmol/L), and the dog is showing symptoms such as vomiting, nausea,inappetence, ulcers and lethargy, which are caused by the build-up of nitrogen in the blood. Even then, feeding low protein will not extend life, but it will help the dog feel better. Subcutaneous fluids can also help at this time (and before).” http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html

    If your pup is uremic then consider K/D canned with added toppers to entice eating. Toppers like lightly cooked egg whites or canned green tripe are good options. Both are low in phosphorus but higher in protein. To counter the extra protein you can give probiotics and a certain type of prebiotic to induce “nitrogen trapping”. Nitrogen trapping utilizes the bacteria in the colon to help clean BUN from the blood. I use Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotic (human product) and Fiber 35 Sprinkle Fiber (also human product). If symptoms are bad enough that there is a need to keep protein really low try adding high quality fats — organic butter or ghee, coconut oil etc.

    I would avoid kibble at ALL COST!!! Kibble of any kind including K/D.

    Vet Dr. Royal created a raw kidney disease diet for Darwins. It can be found on their website – link below. The food is REALLY high in protein so again not an option if your pup is uremic. Here’s some info. The actual diet is on the site as well. Your vet will have to contact them to confirm your pup is a good candidate for the diet. http://www.darwinspet.com/kidney-health/

    Mary Straus, link above, has diet recommendations on her site – she does include kibbles but kibbles are dehydrating and can cause issues. The protein in kibbles is also poorer quality than any other form and due to this creates more BUN then other diets with the same amount and kind of protein. Nutritionist Lew Olson also has some recipes on her website http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/kidney-diet/

    Supplements that might be helpful — the one that I will NEVER run out of with my KD girl is Standard Process Canine Renal Support. Turmeric, food grade activated charcoal and burdock root are some to look at. I’d also recommend giving a digestive enzyme no matter what you feed. Mineral waters higher in calcium while being lower in sodium have demonstrated some benefit. They didn’t identify the brand in the research paper but I believe they may have used Evian. I’ve also read that feeding smaller meals multiple times per day is beneficial.

    Hope something here is helpful!! Sure hope you can get your pup feeling better!!!

    Shawna

    in reply to: diets for kidney disease #29560 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi assirak2313,

    Kibble is the worst thing you can feed a dog with kidney disease. Please do consider canned or home prepared.. And do some research before deciding on a diet (or ask around).. The protein and phosphorus amount in the food needs to be adjusted to the stage of the disease. In the early stages it is usually not necessary, and sometimes problematic, to reduce protein. And the quality of the protein, how well the body uses it, is vital to ongoing health.

    The site that RescueDaneMom linked to is an EXCELLENT source of info on diet, supplements etc. When I found out my one year old pup had congenital (from birth) kidney disease, dog aware was one of the most informative sites I found. My kd pup is now seven and a half years old and still going strong. Her vets gave her one year after diagnosis to live..

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Shawna.
    in reply to: Homemade Cancer Diet: Supplement Question #27183 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    PS — turmeric and bromelain (bromelain fed away from meals) are also quite handy as anti-inflammatories and will not only help with Dozer’s cancer but are also good for Max’s arthritis.. 🙂

    in reply to: Homemade Cancer Diet: Supplement Question #27181 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hey Caroline,

    Glad the info I posted is helpful :). Another thing you could do if so inclined is to use The Honest Kitchen Preference premix and meats you purchase. Example, Bravo has a bone/calcium free venison as well as a buffalo that could be fed either raw or cooked (since they are bone free) with the premix. Might be a red meat option to the beef he doesn’t seem to do well on.

    If you decide to give the eggs a try, don’t whip or blend or otherwise disturb the egg as doing so breaks down the glutathione precursor (will still be beneficial just not quite as much). Just crack the egg open and put the whole thing on top of his HK (decreasing the amount of HK to compensate for the egg calories of course). You can add the egg shell back in if you wish (calcium source). Some will say not to feed raw egg whites because they bind with the vitamin B called biotin.. It is true that they do BUT if you include the yolk you will be okay as it is HIGH in biotin and will offset what is bound up in the white.

    Green tripe (either canned or raw) is a food that most dogs can’t turn away from — they LOVE it.. It is high in protein and has lots of nutrients (especially the raw) and can make a wonderful topper for the HK Thrive etc. I like the Tripett canned product and raw can be found locally in many cases or online. Most tripe is sourced from beef but dogs with issues with beef muscle meat are usually very tolerant of beef tripe. If not, Tripett also makes a lamb and a venison canned tripe.

    Thank you Cyndi and Marie!!! You guys ROCK!!!!

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Shawna.
    • This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Shawna.
    in reply to: Homemade Cancer Diet: Supplement Question #27169 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Oops, meant to add this… I’d also consider adding a few high quality organic “raw” eggs to Dozer’s diet every week. Raw eggs have a precursor to what is referred to as glutathione. Glutathione is the “master antioxidant” of the body and helps the liver remove toxins from the blood. The below linked research article discusses how glutathione helps after the toxicity of chemotherapy. In the research they are discussing glutamine supplementation but raw egg is even better than glutamine (an amino acid found in protein) alone. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1234593/

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Shawna.
    in reply to: Homemade Cancer Diet: Supplement Question #27168 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Cyndi and RescueDaneMom,

    Usually I’m not able to log in to the forums but it let me today so….. 🙂

    I REALLY like Dr. Dressler but really don’t like grains in a dog’s food.. I’d much rather see you feeding THK and adding high protein meat or canned toppers. If you want to add extra vitamin E I personally would use red palm oil as it has a form of vitamin E that is been researched to be more cancer fighting than alpha-tocopherol. You can buy the oil or can buy a supplement that utilizes the oil. HOWEVER, I’ve also read that high amounts of vitamin E can be detrimental in certain types of cancer. UGHHH Lymphoma seems to be one that supplemental vitamin E provides benefits for though (those that may read this dealing with other types of cancer need to check for their specific type of cancer) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8272150

    There are foods that are known to kill cancer cells as well — garlic, turmeric and the enzyme bromelain from pineapples induce apoptosis and causes rogue cells to commit suicide as an example (because of the sugar content of pineapple, I would give bromelain as a supplement (away from meals) instead of pineapple itself). Turmeric is inexpensive but do use ONLY organic turmeric if you decide to use it as many spices are irradiated damaging the benefits. Turmeric can be added to other powdered supplements and sprinkled right on the food.

    Certain foods also are known to cut off the blood supply to cancers and thus starving the cancer to death (this is called antiangiogenosis). Turmeric, garlic, blueberries, apples, certain mushrooms and more can all do this.. The more foods you feed that are antiangiogenic the better the outcome as they are believed to be synergistic and work better together. This is a list of foods that cause antiangiogenosis http://blog.ted.com/2010/02/10/dr_william_lis/ (some are not appropriate for dogs (like grapes)).

    If you are interested at all in more data on antiangiogenosis, human oncologist Dr. William Li has an EXCELLENT Ted TV video on it. The title of the video is “Can we eat to starve cancer.” It can be found here http://www.ted.com/talks/william_li.html

    PS — I’m in the group that think “synthetic” vitamins have minimal positive affect on the body. I’d much rather see foods high in nutrients and, if needed, whole food vitamin supplements be used. I don’t think the supplement your vet gave you will hurt, just don’t think it will help as much as those found in food. I would also give an enzyme supplement with each meal.

    Dozer is certainly in all our prayers and thoughts for a speedy and full recovery!!!!!!

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Shawna.
    in reply to: Like supports like? #24553 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi bullterriermom,

    The link Hound Dog Mom provided is a REALLY REALLY good article on glandulars. I use Dr. Lee’s protomorphogen / glandulars on my dog that has had kidney disease since birth. She is seven years old, unmedicated besides glandulars and whole food vitamins etc. Dr. Lee’s company is called Standard Process. Excellent products.

    However, some refer to anything outside of allopathic or western medicine as quackery etc. So I wanted to provide you with data supported by allopathic medicine. It is referred to as “oral tolerization”. They have studied it as a treatment for rheumatoid arthritis http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889857X05700247

    As well as in helping the body not reject transplanted organs – specifically the liver http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10706554 Autoimmune heart disease (unfortunately the paper isn’t pulling up for me today but the link is here and may work for you or tomorrow?) http://lib.bioinfo.pl/paper:19353248  A round about way to see the data is here http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Dlj-FH1tQ8YJ:lib.bioinfo.pl/paper:19353248+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    And, the New York Times has a nice article on oral tolerization called “Hair of the Dog” http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/18/science/hair-of-dog-tried-as-cure-for-autoimmune-disease.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

    Shawna
    Member

    PS — sorry, some of the data in my last post I see is a repeat of what I said before. Sorry for the duplicate info.. Should have read previous posts BEFORE leaving last :).. Live and learn 🙂

    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Lagotto,

    We noticed (at the breeders) that she had excessive drinking and urination, as compared to her 5 siblings, when she was about 6 weeks old. She came to live with me when she was 9 weeks old. At about 4 weeks old she started failing to thrive — because she had a collapsing trachea and couldn’t get enough milk from her mommy. So the breeder put her on raw goat milk and egg whites, syringe fed every 2 to 4 hours, til she could eat on her own. She was weaned onto raw food — mainly hamburger, eggs, raw milk etc.

    When she came to me I was making a home made raw diet for my current dogs and she went on that same diet. At her vet visit I told her holistic vet she urinated/drank a lot but her vet poo poo’d my concern and said puppies drink and therefore urinate more. She has bright eyes, she’s very smart, good coat quality etc. She’s a healthy puppy… In looking back I’m actually thankful that happened. Audrey continued on the homemade raw diet til her one year checkup where her bloodwork showed high bun and creatinine. I started tweaking her diet and would take her in every three months for additional bloodwork to see what the tweaking was doing. Turns out, the diet I had been feeding her all along was the best for her with one exception. To the diet I added a “prebiotic” and probiotics to help lower her BUN. Works like a charm..

    Audrey continued on the homemade diet for several years but then I got too busy to keep up with homemade exclusively so I started incorporating commercial raw diets — Bravo as an example. Became busier yet and moved exclusively to commercial raw — Bravo, Darwins, Answers (recently started) and premixes like The Honest Kitchen Preference and Steve’s Premix with raw meats.. Audrey turned 7 years old the end of June and is still going strong. I have NOT lowered her protein. I have not lowered her phosphorus or made any other changes than adding prebiotic/probiotic and supplements. I use Garden of Life’s Primal Defense probiotic and Fiber35’s Sprinkle Fiber as the prebiotic. A really good prebiotic, made specifically for dogs, can be found on Dr. Mercola’s website under the “Pets” link and then under “Products”.

    I would NOT regularly feed her kibble if I was paid to do so. In my opinion, kibble will cause a much earlier death in a kidney disease dog.. Kibble is a POOR QUALITY food for kd dogs/cats—even the best kibbles on the market… At the very least, feed a canned diet. If you can, feed raw or lightly cooked. I also don’t feed Audrey any grains. IF you are going to feed grains it needs to be either sushi rice (aka glutinous rice) or cream of wheat (or farina). These two grains are low phosphorus. All other grains have higher phosphorus and don’t add anything to the diet that can’t be found in a more species appropriate food.

    You also want to feed higher fat foods — ditch the lean ground beef.. Feed the highest fat foods you can get (unless she is showing signs of pancreatitis). Fat adds calories without phosphorus—adding organic coconut oil is a good idea too. Protein is NOT damaging to the kidneys and only needs to be reduced to prevent symptoms of uremia in the later stages of the disease — such as vomiting or depression. Audrey has NEVER to date ate low protein.

    Let her have ALL the water she wants. Audrey used to sleep in the water bowl when it was empty — she was that obsessed with water and, I’m guessing, desperately trying to tell me she needed some. She started this, sleeping in water dish, at the breeders. I kept potty pads ALL over the house for her. I was lucky in that she used them. During the night I keep her in a 4 foot by 4 foot enclosure we made (for our foster puppies). It was made out of wood and plastic chicken wire. I had her water bowl, her kennel, a blanket outside the kennel and a potty pad with LOTS of newspapers under it — she would fill a potty pad to the point of leaking during the night. As she got older she was able to hold it. Since about three months of age she has slept with me in my bed at nights.

    Darwins now has a kidney diet.. I haven’t seen it yet but I do think it is worth checking out. Urban Wolf has a premix designed for kd dogs that can be added to raw or home cooked meats. And I think Grandma Lucy’s has a lower phosphorus premix that is also suitable for dogs needing their phos lowered..

    Also consider adding a whole food B and C vitamin to the diet. These two vitamins are “water soluble” and because of the excessive urination can become depleted if not supplemented. I use Standard Process Cataplex B and C. I also give Audrey a whole food multi as a precaution. I use Standard Process Catalyn. Standard Process also makes a whole food supplement specifically for dogs with kidney disease. It’s called Canine Renal Support — I HIGHLY recommend using it. I also give liver support also by Standard Process — Canine Hepatic Support. The liver can become overstressed in a kd dog.

    I HIGHLY recommend only using reverse osmosis or distilled along with a mineral water like Evian. Mineral waters (only those lower in sodium) have shown some positive benefits to kidney patients.

    Also try to eliminate as many chemical toxins from your house as possible. I was already living in a relatively toxin free environment but I had to eliminate my Swiffer mop, candles ets. These have chemicals in them that the kidneys have to filter — putting an extra strain on them OR adding to the blood poisoning when the kidneys can’t filter as well. DO NOT use flea/tick or heartworm meds on her. And DO NOT vaccinate her. Audrey has only had one set of shots (given by the breeder before I got her) and has NEVER had a rabies shot. She was diagnosed before getting the shot and I was able to get a lifelong exemption for her in my state.

    As mentioned, Audrey turned 7 last month and is not on any medications (no phosphorus binders, no sub-q fluids etc) just the supplements.

    I don’t use it but I know others that have had positive results with the herbal tinctures from Five Leaf Pharmacy. http://caninekidneyhealth.com/ I would NOT follow their diet though… 🙂 http://caninekidneyhealth.com/

    I would also highly recommend reading the material on Mary Straus’ dog aware website. This is the site where I got most of my knowledge / as well as courage to continue feeding Audrey a high protein raw diet. She has some EXCELLENT info on the site — when to feed low protein, when to lower phosphorus and how much (phosphorus is an essential mineral – lowering it too much too early can have unintended consequences), which foods are lower in phosphorus etc. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

    Your puppy can still have a fantastic quality of life.. Learn as much as you can, stay positive and enjoy her fully!!!!!

    If you ever want to chat offsite, I can be reached at shawnadfaemail @ yahoo. com (take out the spaces–they are included here to prevent robot spammers from sending me junk mail).. 🙂

    in reply to: Mercola Joint Supplement VS Others. #15250 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    What is it about Mercola’s product that you don’t support HDM? Just curious.

    in reply to: Pre made raws #14221 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Konamisan ~~ other things, like vaccine reactions, can cause these same skin issues that allergies can cause. Has your JRT been vaccinated recently? Also sounds like there might be an internal yeast overgrowth (which can also manifest in symptoms like you are seeing). Does your pup have a “corn chip” or yeasty smell?

    Also it is very common to have “set backs” or detoxes when the immune system is compromised and the body is allowed (due to a change to a better food etc) to rid itself of nasties.

    How long has she been on the probiotics. Probiotics are very important but can cause a mass die off of systemic candida and that die off causes toxins (released by the yeast as they die). That die off can cause the symptoms you are seeing.

    It very well could be a reaction to another food but I think some of these other possible reasons may be worth considering..

    in reply to: Brewer's Yeast Controversy #14217 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Betsy wrote
    “Can you tell me the difference between brewer’s yeast and yeast culture; and how they differ from the type of yeast that that makes up a yeast overgrowth?”

    Brewers yeast and nutritional yeast are made from the same strain of yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, but are grown on different mediums. Brewers yeast is a by-product from the brewing industry and is said to have a bitter or “yeasty” taste. Nutritional yeast is often grown on molasses and is described to have a nutty or cheesy taste. Depending on what they are grown on will vary the nutritional content of the final product to a degree. The yeast in these products are deactivate (killed) so they can not colonize the system.

    It is my understanding that it is the deactivation process that frees the amino acids and creates the MSG like issues in these supplements. Fermentation, which is what the yeast does to the sugar mediums they are grown on, also creates some freed glutamic and aspartic acids. I think the amounts are relatively small but because freed glutamic and aspartic acids bioaccumulate, when added to other sources it definitely could be enough to cause illness. For those that are sensitive to MSG or aspartame, I would avoid nutritional and brewers yeasts.

    There are also a few types of yeast that are considered probiotics Saccromyces boulardi is one and can be found in some probiotic products. Saccromyces is a “non-colonizing” yeast.

    Candida yeast is the type that are normal to the colon and can grow out of proportion when the good bacteria are not in correct proportion.

    There is another type of yeast, Malassezia, that grows on a dogs skin when the immune system is not up to par. I beleive Malassezia can infect the ears as well.

    in reply to: Grains #12397 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Betsy!

    Ditto to HDM’s entire post 🙂 My kibble fed dogs just finished a bag of Nature’s Logic a few weeks ago…

    in reply to: Diet and Diabetes #11647 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    I’m not understanding your post? They know lectins cause disease (including diabetes). What they don’t know is to what extent and why one has this issue and one has that. I have a friend whose dog is intolerant of green beans. I know others that have issues with strawberries and cucumbers. I am intolerant of dairy lectins and my husband reacts to pinto bean lectins.

    The difference between us and our dogs —- we eat a varied diet while we (many of us) force our dogs to dine on the same cuisine day in and day out. Our dogs are more suseptible to the damages of lectins—if in the diet they are eating day after day..

    I’m ALL FOR species appropriate diets by the way.. BEFORE illness sets in especially 🙂 Five of my dogs get raw including my dog born with kidney disease. The foster dogs (which will likely be with us for life) get 5 star kibbles with raw and high protein canned toppers.

    Shawna
    Member

    No, Audrey has never had any other issues except the kd. Blood pressure is good.. Her kidneys didn’t develop properly before being born. I do everything in my power to make sure she has little to no inflammation in her body. I don’t have any toxins in my home that the kidneys/liver have to filter. I looked at the ingredients in all the products I used (swiffer sweeper cleaning liquid etc) and checked their MSDS or the CDC to see if each ingredient was kidney friendly. I got rid of almost all cleaners etc I was using prior to Audrey coming to me. Many (actually most) of them were “green” too.

    She also only gets reverse osmosis or distilled water.. The tap water in my area is not truly “clean” (has fluoride etc).

    I do give her nutraceuticals as well — she gets enzymes with EVERY meal. She gets the pro and prebiotics as needed. She gets a product called Canine Renal Support from Standard Process which I think has been a HUGE part of her health. I also give her Canine Hepatic Support to help her liver. The liver is more likely to get stressed because the kidneys aren’t doing their part. She gets extra vitamin B complex and C — these are water soluble vitamins and are lost in excess due to the large volumes of urine so they need to be supplemented. Most vets don’t discuss these kinds of things that will help our kd pups live a longer healthier life…

    Audrey has NEVER had a rabies shot. She is exempted for life. She’s never had any vaccines except her first puppy shots (distemper, parvo and adeno). No lymes, lepto, kennel cough etc. They know that vaccines can stress the kidneys. She also has never had flea/tick or heartworm meds, pharmaceutical dewormers etc. ALL of these add insult to injury.

    I haven’t used it but I’ve spoken with others that have had very very good success with an herbal regimen by Five Leaf Pharmacy (my father is a Master Herbalist so he could make these for me at less than half the cost—otherwise I probably would have tried them).. He liked the formulas.. http://caninekidneyhealth.com/

    in reply to: Diet and Diabetes #11644 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Quality fat has not been linked to the development of pancreatitis… Rancid fats for sure. I would assume that inappropriate types like hydrogenated sunflower oil are problematic too. But, fat doesn’t cause pancreatitis. It simply needs to be reduced when the pancreas is already inflammed. Just like protein doesn’t cause kidney disease but at some point it has to be lowered to help alleviate symptoms. NOT because it is causing the problem. Same with quality fat in pancreatitis.

    in reply to: Diet and Diabetes #11643 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Not all carbs are created equal.

    For some dogs I think the type of starch used could make a huge difference in diabetes irregardless of the overall quantity (although I definitely do agree that carbs need to be at a minimum). Lectins are known to cause type 1 diabetes (the kind most often seen in dogs). They also have research showing lectins can cause lesions on the pancreas. I would assume those lesions could eventually cause diabetes due to the inflammation and necrosis. It is also well established that lectins can cause insulin resistance..

    in reply to: What are lectins? #11594 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Yeah, I think that would be a great option.. I have NO issue with sprouted grains or lentils. Chia seeds are GREAT.. Where do you find all this stuff?? Have you tried Ezekiel breads (products) for yourself? I like their tortilla shells. I like the bread when I’m eating eggs but otherwise I don’t eat much of the bread.

    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Lizemma ~~ I missed this post earlier.. My dog, Audrey, was born with kidney disease. She started showing symptoms of excess drinking and urinating at about 6 weeks of age. She came to me at 9 weeks of age. She was officially diagnosed at her one year check up.

    Audrey was weaned onto a raw diet and has been eating raw her whole life. She is now 6 and 1/2 years old and still very healthy. She still has kidney disease but unless you look at her blood work or see her drink/urinate you wouldn’t know she was not completely healthy.

    Raw isn’t for everyone but it is VERY VERY VERY important to feed dogs with kidney disease a high moisture diet. If raw isn’t an option consider home cooked or canned.

    In the earlier stages of kidney disease (despite what your vet says) you do NOT need to lower protein. In fact, they now know that lowering protein too early in the disease actually does more harm than good. I don’t even feed Audrey a low phosphorus food but it is wise to begin to lower phosphorus. The amount to lower is completely based on the stage of the disease.

    An EXCELLENT website for all things involving canine kidney disease is nutritionist Mary Straus’ website. She has accurate and current info with research articles linked to back up her comments. She also has a list of lower phosphorus kibble/canned/dehydrated etc foods. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

    If your vet hasn’t talked to you about “nitrogen trapping” I HIGHLY recommend researching it. Utilizing nitrogen trapping can help significantly (by up to 10 points) clean BUN out of the blood and routing it through the colon sparing the kidneys from having to filter it. Nitrogen trapping involves probiotics and a certain kind of fiber to feed those probiotics. I use acacia fiber — it’s called Sprinkle Fiber and the brand is Fiber 35. It’s made for human consumption but I had the most positive results using this brand with my Audrey.

    Best wishes for many more healthy years with your pup!!!!!

    in reply to: What are lectins? #11588 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Sprouting neutralizes lectins.. I have a research article at work but….I’m at home.

    In addition to neutralizing lectins, sprouting deactivates phytic acid and the enzyme inhibitors as well. The grain or seed becomes a living food (a baby plant) and since the enzyme inhibitors are inactivated the enzymes within the food is activated. Sprouting increases protein and vitamins within the grain too.

    This is, in my opinion, a really interesting article on lectins. A quick quote
    “A number of animal studies have shown that an increase in polyamines caused by a high lectin diet resulted in increases in the size of the intestines, liver, and pancreas.7

    Lucretius said, “One man’s food is another man’s poison” and lectins give us part of the reason why. It is our individual genetic inheritances that determine how and to what degree lectins can affect us. Almost everybody has antibodies to some dietary lectins in their bloodstream. ” http://www.vrp.com/digestive-health/lectins-their-damaging-role-in-intestinal-health-rheumatoid-arthritis-and-weight-loss

    in reply to: Ozbo.com – Be warned!! #11554 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Afterthought — if you want to try weaning off the pepcid I would definitely add a little apple cider vinegar to help with digestion (if you think too little acid could be part of the problem — more common in older humans and pets). I would defitely add the digestive enzymes and discuss probiotics with your vet. And defintely check out SeaCure.

    in reply to: Ozbo.com – Be warned!! #11553 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Research Hound ~~ That is HORRIBLE… I feel for the both of you.. I foster and I’ve had two dogs that would regurgitate from stress. Good stress (like when I came home) as well as bad stress. I TOTALLY get the annoyance and yuckiness of having to continuously clean up vomit… 🙁

    Throwing up bile is often caused by an empty stomach. Recommendations are to feed more frequent smaller meals and to give a treat before bed and upon rising.

    Sounds like your pup is both regurgitating and vomitting. This is odd as both are caused by different reasons. Dr. Becker just released an informative article on regurgitation and vomit. Dogs may regurgitate due to a hypothyroid as an example. She states that vomiting is diet related and can even be an early symptom of inflammatory bowel disease. I’d read her article and see if anything maybe makes some sense. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/12/17/vomiting-vs-regurgitating.aspx

    I’ve read that once on Pepcid etc longer term it may be required for life. Did your vet suggest a temporary trial or was this intended for long term management?

    If you think it might be diet — is there ANY food that was consistant between all the foods you tried. Pea as an example is in almost all kibbles (if not all?). My friends dog can’t tolerate green beans for more than a few days without developing tummy issues.

    You can drive yourself crazy (if you haven’t already 🙂 trying to figure this out. My only concern though, if it is diet that is causing this then the pepcid is symply masking the symptoms while the damage from the original problem continues on to develop into another symptom. Maybe one that is worse than the initial vomiting? Also, I question how much of the protein eaten is actually being digested because of the blocking of acid? Because of this I personally would give a product like SeaCure. It is a protein that is already broken down so doesn’t require acid to digest it. Long term use can have problems of its own but no more so than protein malnutrition I would think. SeaCure is also healing to the digestive tract.

    Wish I could be more help but there’s just too many considerations 🙁 Keep asking questions and talking about it.. Sometimes inspiration can come from the most unlikely places. BEST OF LUCK!!!

    in reply to: question about dog metabolism of protein #11549 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Yeah Toxed I noticed that earlier today when Betsy and Patty were talking.. I was going to post a comment but ran out of time and was only able to “like” both comments :).. Betsy, Patty, Labs and several others are like little sponges. I wish I could absorb info that quickly and easily!!! 🙂

    PS — CONGRATS on the good news about Sam Betsy!!!!!!!!!! Hope the pano is very short lived..

    in reply to: Ozbo.com – Be warned!! #11548 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi guys ~~ I don’t have time to read through to the beginning so not sure of the context of this topic. I will say however that I would resort to pepcid AC as a LAST RESORT. Most times when these are prescribed the problem is actually too little acid not too much. Acid blockers work but with consequences. Acid is REQUIRED for the digestion of protein. It is the acid that reaches an acceptable PH that then activates the pepsin in the stomach which is where protein digestion begins. No or low acid means pepsin doesn’t get activated. I would imagine this puts a major strain on the pancreas to generate enough trypsin to digest protein and likely the protein doesn’t get digested and therefore absorbed. I imagine this will eventually show up as poor coat quality and then worse.

    Mercola writes
    “So as you age, it is common to experience heartburn, indigestion and GERD-type diseases, and contrary to what you may think, these diseases are almost typically caused by a reduction in stomach acid, not the overproduction of stomach acid.

    This is news to many, because the drug companies spend loads of marketing money to convince you that heartburn and acid reflux are caused by too much stomach acid.

    The other so-called digestive aids, including the class of drugs called proton pump inhibitors, and H2 blockers (Pepsid AC, Prilosec, Zantac, etc) will actually take you in the opposite direction of optimal health because they shut down acid production, making your problem worse.

    So if drug industry into has fooled you thinking drugs like Pepcid AC and Zantac are addressing the problems in your stomach, or even if you’re taking the common calcium tablets to reduce stomach acid, you’re doing your body three huge disservices:” http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/01/06/what-you-need-to-understand-about-your-digestive-system-to-improve-your-health.aspx

    Thanks Toxed and Honeybeesmom for the props!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂

    in reply to: question about dog metabolism of protein #11545 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Steve Brown’s book is awesome… I have the hard copy too 🙂 I don’t remember reading his thoughts on carbs impeding digestion.. May be time for a re-read.

    in reply to: question about dog metabolism of protein #11544 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Bill 🙂

    1. The reason plant based proteins are combined, as you know, is that some are deficient in one essential amino acid or another. By combining you can get representation of all essentials. My problem with this is that if not done well it can still cause an excess of others making the entire protein content less bioavailable. Bioavailability is the ability of the body to use the amino acids from the proteins we eat. Egg has 100% bioavailability — ALL the amino acids in an egg are used leaving none to become blood urea nitrogen for the kidneys to have to filter. When we combine foods we’re bound to have an excess of some and a proper representation of others. The body is then going to have an excess of some that it can’t use and these become blood urea nitrogen. This isn’t a bad thing unless the eater has kidney disease.

    All animal based proteins already have all essential amino acids so combining is not really as necessary. However some have more of one and less of another — turkey, as an example, is a good source of tryptophan. Adding animal based protein to any kibble is a good idea and mixing up the proteins makes sense (different amino acids, different fat representations etc). You can not over feed protein to a healthy dog. What they can not use they will safely eliminate causing no harm.

    It’s best to feed eggs raw as cooking them can denature the protein in the whites and destroy the omega 3 in the yolk. If feeding whites only you must cook them as the avidin in the white binds to the B vitamin biotin and can cause a deficiency. The yolk is high in biotin so when feeding together avidin is now believed to not be an issue.

    2. I don’t think that carbs reduce the benefit of protein (with an exception) but rather they take the place of the much more needed protein. It is well known, and mentioned in the teaching books like Waltham, that dogs have NO nutritional need for carbs. Adding carbs displaces the macronutrients they do need — fat and protein. Dogs can derive glucose from protein and fat. Carbs (starch) is added to kibble more because kibble can not be made without starch than a dietary need. I do think that in our modern world the antioxidants, vitamins etc in high quality carbs (veggies and fruit) can be of great benefit when used in small amounts though.

    The exception I mentioned above — there is a theory that carbs and proteins digest at different rates, and more importantly, at different acid/base levels. Lou and Marilyn Diamond had a very interesting book out in the 80’s called “Fit for Life”. From memory, the theory is that carbs (starch) digest in an alkaline environment and protein in acid. This is true but I don’t know if one impedes the other. Example — if a high starch diet prevents the stomach from producing enough HCL to activate the pepsin protein in the stomach that digests the protein.. If this is true than excess, or any, starch can make protein digestion more difficult. Carbs could be eaten but not at the same meal as protein and visa versa. Fruit had to be eaten alone and non-starchy carbs (aka certain veggies) could be eaten with protein or starchy meals. I tried this and I do think it improved digestion considerably but it was difficult to maintain and after about 8 months I gave it up never to retry.

    3. I’m sure there’s a way to easily figure out the percent but math is not my strong suit so I’ll leave that to someone with stronger math skills :). I will say however that I don’t think you need to worry about it. Those of us that feed raw, myself and Toxed included, feed protein amounts in excess of 50%. What you do want to be congniscent of is not to add more than 20% of ANY food that is not balanced to an already balanced diet. Doing so can throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio and that could be bad..

    I am HORRIBLY sorry if this post makes little to no sense…?? I’m watching my 1 and 2 year old grand kids and they make concentration and focus near impossible.

    Thank you Toxed for your vote of confidence!!!!! 🙂 Love you girl!!

    in reply to: Lower Protein and lawn urine spots #11311 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    PS — my dog born with kidney disease is now 6 and 1/2 years old and still in very very good health. Unmedicated, never requires vet visits etc.

    in reply to: Lower Protein and lawn urine spots #11310 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    In my opinion it is not the total amount of protein in a food but rather the quality of the protein (the bioavailibility — how much is used by the body and how much becomes waste (aka blood urea nitrogen)). Speaking as the owner of a dog born with kidney disease I know that high quality protein creates less nitrogen for her kidneys to have to filter (and thus less in the urine). And my dog with kidney disease actually eats a HIGH protein raw diet — ranging from 45 to 54% protein. In fact, I have 8 dogs all eating high quality kibble with raw and high protein canned toppers or exclusively high protein raw. I don’t have brown spots on my lawn — 8 dogs-high protein-no brown spots.

    Additionally, they know that senior dogs actually need as much as 50% more protein than adult dogs as they are not as efficient at digesting their food.

    I know you don’t want supplements but a trick used by those with dogs with kidney disease (and confirmed by science to work) is feeding probiotics and foods for those probiotics called prebiotics. This causes a “nitrogen trap” and routes some of the nitrogen in the blood through the colon instead of the kidneys. Gets pooped out instead of peed out.

    in reply to: Transitioning to raw #11291 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Anna,

    LOL!! From what I’ve been told by vets as well as my own doctor is that the allergy testing is hit and miss. So your observational skills are probably a better bet than you might think :)…. I can always tell when my grandkids gave my Audrey something she reacts too as well.. Her immune system has calmed down enough that she doesn’t itch but her skin will get a little hot across her back and lower tummy. She can also get a little clingy.

    If you end up going with raw you can do a real elimination diet and get to the bottom of anything that might be problematic.. With Audrey it ended up being 4 different foods.

    Let us know if there is anything we can help with if or when you need it!!!

    PS — vets are told that food allergies are rare (which is actually true). What some have not yet discovered is that food intolerances are quite common and can manifest in the same symptoms.

    in reply to: Transitioning to raw #11290 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    HDM ~~ what’s the one that you use that contains ALL 8 forms of vitamin E?.. Was that the NOW one? I’d use that one personally..

    in reply to: Transitioning to raw #11279 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    LOL!!!! Thanks Ann 🙂

    I know you weren’t really asking about mange but….. I can’t help myself :).

    There is more than one type of mange. Sarcoptic mange is quite contagious and problematic but less common from my understanding. Demodectic mange is more common and also contagious but there’s a but. Most adult dogs, I’ve read, have demodex mites on them. Demodex mites actually live synergistically with their host unless the dogs immune system is out of whack.. In humans demodectic mites live in the crease of our nose and eyelids and in our eyebrows for the most part.

    Have you been able to lessen or eliminate the itching? Everybody here is more than willing to help if we can :)..

    You are a very good puppy parent!!! If you have read many of my posts you know I can be quite the rambler myself.. 🙂 No need to apologize on my account… 🙂

    in reply to: Older dogs and high proteins #11273 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    PS — the foods I feed Audrey range in protein content from 45 to 54%. And she has eaten or is currently eating everything from quail/pheasant/ostrich to buffalo/venison/rabbit/elk and everything in between.

    in reply to: Older dogs and high proteins #11272 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Hi skippy5761 ~~ just read your post to HDM so sorry for the delayed response. They now know that quality protein does not cause kidney disease. The original studies that set this myth in motion were actually done on rats. Rats DO get kd from high protein diets – dogs and cats do not.

    High protein diets (quality high protein) actually have been shown to help the kidneys not hinder them. For this reason, I’ve been feeding my Audrey (pup in my avatar pic) a high quality raw diet since she was weaned. Audrey has had kidney disease from birth. She had symptoms of excessive drinking and urinating even before weaning. She was officially diagnosed when she had her 1 year blood work done. We modified her diet and rechecked blood work every 3 months for a year and when it was all said and done I had her back on her normal diet with added probiotics and prebiotics (which help trap nitrogen sparing the kidneys from having to filter it (referred to as the “nitrogen trap”). I used to home prepare the foods my dogs ate but I have less time right now so I use commercial raw. I use a combination of Darwin’s, Bravo and premixes with meats I supply right now. Audrey is now 6 and 1/2 years old and in VERY GOOD health.. She is not on any prescription medications (I give her nutraceuticals though). She never has to go to the vet for anything and has never once required sub-q fluids etc.

    In my opinion, feeding kibble (any kind at any protein level) is far more damaging to the kidneys than a high quality, balanced raw diet. Audrey is living proof. She’ll turn 7 the end of June 2013.

    in reply to: Coconut Water #11271 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    I got SEVERELY dehydrated after I had a very negative reaction to the drugs I was put on after breaking my foot… I spent about $300 at the health food store fighting the symptoms of the two $10.00ish drugs… I drank A LOT of coconut water and mineral water for several weeks — I probably should have gone back to the doc I was so bad (if I smiled my lips would crack and bleed). Coconut water is an excellent source of electrolytes (minerals) that help get the water we drink into our cells.

    I don’t see why it couldn’t be given to dogs? Make sure the sugar content isn’t high due to the added pineapple.

    Zico makes a chocolate coconut water that is pretty good. I’ve also tried mango and guava that I didn’t mind. However, I think the easiest way to get it down is to blend it with frozen berries (and a high quality protein powder) to make a smoothy.. 🙂

    in reply to: GM Salmon Oh No! #11270 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    I read this!! Pretty scary huh!!!!!!! UGHHHHHHH

    Thanks for linking it Sandy!

    in reply to: Heart worm prevention #11269 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Some vets feel that heartworm preventatives are substantially increasing our pups risks of cancer. I’m not sure cancer is any better of a disease to get than heartworm? For every give, there is a take.

    There is a vet in southern Florida that is having very good results with alternative heartworm treatment (nosodes to be specific).

    “In my holistic practice, heartworm nosodes ( a homeopathic vaccine) are used as a preventative, on a monthly basis after the initial protocol period, and have proven to be extremely effective. Unfortunately, no statistics are available, but our records indicate no active infestations in any animal tested for heart worms in the past 8 years at our clinic who were protected with the heartworm nosode.” http://www.holisticvetclinic.net/pages/heartworm_treatment

    Dr. Martin Goldstein featured on Oprah, Martha Stewart, author etc also does not recommend heartworm for any of his clients. He is in New York but has clients all over the US. He links heartworm to cancer in his book “The Nature of Animal Healing”.

    There is also a vet that lived in San Francisco (I’m blanking on a name now) that didn’t give his own pup heartworm pills and never contracted heartworm.

    The thing to consider with heartworm — the pup has to be bitten by a mosquito carrying heartworm in L3 stage, the dog has to be bitten twice, the immune system has to be weak enough not to kill the worms from the get go, both male and female worms have to be present etc. Because a dog tests positive for heartworm does not mean the pup has a life threatening case. Example — if only female worms are present the dog will test positive but the worms can not multiply and will die of old age without consequence.

    Regarding treatment — if detection happens before a full blown infestation (which takes time), an antibiotic can be given to kill the wolbachia bacteria that makes heartworm infections so dangerous. Once wolbachia are dead the remaining worms become steralized and can not reproduce. They will eventually die or can be killed off by heartguard. I haven’t seen studies yet but I’d bet money that garlic kills wolbachia (it is known to kill antibiotic resistant MRSA, giardia, coccidia and other roundworms (which heartworm is a roundworm)).

    I’m not suggesting that you don’t give heartworm, I am suggesting that we should intimately know our enemies. We may find that they are not as dangerous as our vets etc would have us believe.. 🙂

    in reply to: Transitioning to raw #11268 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    PS — HDM’s diet is one of the best I’ve seen aside from those that have been run through calculators to ensure completeness (like the recipes in Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats). When I was home preparing I fed very similar to HDM’s diet.. I think she is a great asset to the home prepared raw feeding community as well as dog food community in general..

    in reply to: Transitioning to raw #11267 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Weimlove,

    HDM mentions her thoughts about veggies in an earlier post on this thread. Here’s the first couple sentences but there’s more “Concerning vegetables, many don’t feel that they’re necessary. Vegetables aren’t part of a dog’s natural diet and I do agree that as long as everything else I described above is provided that they probably aren’t necessary, but I do strongly feel that when they’re provided in small quantities they can be a beneficial addition to the dog’s diet.”

    I agree COMPLETELY with her. Our dogs are subjected to SO MANY MORE toxins than their ancestors and certainly more than wolves. Examples — formaldehyde is off gased from particle board furniture for the life of the piece, gas fumes from gas water heaters and vehicles, the chemical PFOA in tephlon pans and wrappers like those on microwave popcorn bags can actually kill a bird at the right concentration, fluoride in drinking water, vaccinations/heartworm/flea tick etc…

    Not to mention, many don’t bother feeding organic. Bones from CAFO cattle can be high in contaminants like fluoride. The meat is higher in saturated fat than grass finished beef. The meat can be tainted due to the GMO corn and soy etc etc etc. Additionally, “prey” is going to include fiber from the small amounts of ingested fur, sodium from the blood of the animal, ALL the organs — brains are a source of omega 3 DHA, heart has taurine, pancreas has enzymes, tripe has more fiber (in the bits of ingested plant material that comes with) and probiotics and enzymes and on and on.. Many “prey model” enthusiasts don’t account for all these missing nutrients.

    The extra vitamins, minerals and antioxidants in fruits and veggies just seem like a really good idea when we are subjecting our pets to so many toxins that would not be found in their natural environment (or their ancestor’s that is).

    Veggies should be cooked or run through the blender or food processor. Running them thorugh the blender breaks down the cellulose layer without needing heat which can damage the natural enzymes within the food. If you would eat the veggie/fruit raw than you can give it to your dog raw too — cucumbers, peppers, berries, celery, zucchini (sp?), carrots, tomatoes etc. The finer they are blended they more nutrients are released. If you would cook it for yourself, cook it for pup — acorn squash, sweet potato etc. Best way to cook them is to steam them in a steamer (can be purchased for $40.00 or less). Add the water from the steamers drip tray back into the food as some minerals are leached during cooking and you can add them back by adding the water back.

    Hope that helps :).

    in reply to: Vaccinating #11225 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Glad the recommended sites were helpful 🙂 The dog in my avatar (my Audrey) was born with kidney disease. She started showing symptoms as early as 6 weeks old and was officially diagnosed at her 1 year blood work. Audrey received only her first set of puppy shots (at the breeders before coming to me) and has never been vaccinated for rabies (she is exempt for life due to her disease). I truly believe in minimal vaccination, minimal toxic exposure (heartworm, flea/tick, yard chemicals, fluoridated water etc), species appropriate diets etc. Audrey is living proof. She is now 6 and 1/2 years old and still in excellent health (still has kidney disease but she’s not sick). She’s been raw fed since she was weaned. I used to home make her diet but life got busy and I don’t have the time to do it properly right now so I feed commercial raw.. I foster too and from this Audrey has been exposed to giardia, coccidia, ringworm, kennel cough etc. If she does get ill from these it is always short lived and she to date has not required medical intervention for anything… She’s VERY healthy despite having kidney disease. Imagine how healthy an already healthy dog can be with the right food and limited toxic exposures..? 🙂

    in reply to: Transitioning to raw #11209 Report Abuse
    Shawna
    Member

    Weimlove ~~ for clarification, The Honest Kitchen foods are dehydrated versus freeze dried. I personally like freeze drying better but I like the lack of potato in The Honest Kitchen and that they are guaranteed to use human grade foods. That being said, I think it is as important to rotate the starch etc as it is the proteins. I rotate through the premixes from See Spot Live Longer, Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s and Sojo. I will use others as they become locally available.

    When using a premix, unless it specifies, you don’t need to add liver and shouldn’t add bone. Everything is in the premix to balance the meat you add. If you want to add liver I’d just do so in the form of treats. I dehydrate organic liver for my pups and they LOVE it. In a home made diet you only add 5% of the diet as liver (and 5% as other organs — heart, kidneys etc) so liver treats should be ample to an already balanced diet.

    I also use complete and balanced commercial raw products in my rotation. I like Darwins and Bravo Balance. Bravo also has some meat only options that are great to add to the premixes (salmon, buffalo and venison are the options available).

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