[Reese B]

Hi kyle,
The FDA released a warning for a potential link between heart disease and dogs fed foods that are high in legumes/peas/potatoes.
https://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/newsevents/cvmupdates/ucm613305.htm

Farmina N&D pumpkin has 20% pea starch…which in my opinion is really high. I would avoid foods like that at least until more conclusive evidence is found regarding what is causing heart disease in dogs.

That being said, I still think Farmina is a really good brand. They have a line of food called N&D ancestral grains. That line doesn’t have any peas or legumes or potatoes and the calcium content is the same as the pumpkin one.

[Reese B]

You’re right anon, it does say that in the fine print, but I agree with crazy4cats, A LOT of dogs must have been having neurological effects for the FDA to issue a warning.

I’d rather be safe than sorry.

[Reese B]

Pitluv and crazy4cats, I’m glad your dogs didn’t have any issues on Bravecto. Thankfully my dog didn’t either….. sadly a lot of dogs did have adverse side effects.

If I had done more research when my vet first suggested Bravecto, and if I had known there was so many complaints of seizures I would not have given it to my dog. Thus, I’m glad that the FDA is addressing the potential for neurological issues. Too many dogs have experienced it to not have it listed as a possible side effect.

[Reese B]

Hi Joanne,
I heard from somewhere about Zignature being one of the brands dogs were eating too.(Nothing official, just the rumor mill.) I also read an article about a dog eating a “pork and squash recipe” who got DCM too. To me, that sounded like Acana.

I know it’s not definite prove of what brands are part of the investigation, but it’s enough for me to stay away from them until this is cleared up.

[Reese B]

Hi Mark,
I thought about trying out Nature’s logic too, but the calcium levels were sooo high. Like double the recommended dosage for dogs. I didn’t feel comfortable feeding it.

[Reese B]

@Patricia , no, the freeze dried fat content is not the same as their raw. It should be 17% fat in the freeze dried if it was the same as they raw. If you re-read my email exchange with Primal, they admit that the fat content is different in both.

@aimee you’re right, I just get so angry when pet food companies blatantly lie. Since this whole grain free scare, I’m totally at a loss at what to feed my dog (who has allergies to grain) Trying to find a substitute food without grains or legumes has been a nightmare. Then, when you think you found one, they can’t give straight answers about their products…soooo frustrating!

[Reese B]

Spycar said: “It isn’t like “grain” is a positive in canine diets. If there is a problem with feeding legumes, the answer isn’t to feed grain. It is to stop feeding legumes.
This isn’t a binary choice. Suggesting otherwise is a false dichotomy.”

Spycar, I totally agree with this statement, but there aren’t any companies (that I can find) that are making grain free and legume free foods. What are you feeding you dogs?

[Reese B]

I totally agree Aimee. It’s so hard to find an honest, reputable company anymore.

My favourite part of Primal’s response was:
“While we are required to list guaranteed analysis information in terms of minimums and maximums, the values we’ve chosen to post are not actually a minimum or a maximum”

Seriously?! They’re required to list minimum and maximum levels but they’ve chosen not to?! Are they even legally allowed to do that?
I thought they HAD to have minimum/maximum levels stated.

[Reese B]

Hi Patricia,
The rep doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
The raw and freeze dried are not the exact same thing. The freeze dried has a higher fat content. If they were exactly the same, the fat for the freeze dried rabbit would be 17%, not 28%.

I still haven’t heard back from them. I’m done with primal. I will not buy a product from a company who can’t/won’t answer basic questions about the nutrition of their food.

[Reese B]

Hi Patricia,
I’ve posted my email exchange with primal in the dog nutrition section to see if anyone can make sense of what they’re saying. Did you hear anything back from Primal?

[Reese B]

I’m rotating between Valens and Nutrience sub zero. They are both Canadian. My dog loves both of them. They’re both grain free, but the bulk of the food is meat. They have some peas and legumes, but they are listed farther down on the ingredient list so I feel better about feeding it.

[Reese B]

I feel your frustration. I feel the same way! I feed some homemade meals ( not all because I don’t trust that I’m feeding a balance diet) but the supplements I use are
– Dr. Diobas green min, (I’m going to try his mulivitamin called soul food too next time)
– carna 4 sprouted seed supplement
– animal essentials seaweed calcium (I’ve also used crushed egg shells for calcium)
– feel good omega 3 supplement.

For my recipes ill cook a big batch of whatever meat is on sale, and a little liver (usually chicken because it’s the cheapest), then i add a little cooked spinach or broccoli, some squash or pumpkin, some scrambled eggs, coconut oil, sunflower seeds, cottage cheese, and a little bit of fruit, then i blend it really well and freeze it in individual portions.
I defrost it as needed and then i add the supplements to it, give it a stir and serve. My dog really seems to enjoy it.
Hope you find a recipe that works for you. Please share if you do.

[Reese B]

Hmm, that’s a good question. When I first got her she was so itchy all the time, she could hardly sleep…it was so sad. When I put her on a grain free food it stopped in a few days. After about a month I tried her on a different food that had brown rice and oatmeal in it. The scratching started almost immediately, so ever since then, I just stuck to grain free and she’d had no problems. I didn’t want her to be itchy while I tested out which foods bothered her skin. I’ll check out earthborn fish formula. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Reese B]

My dog gets horribly itchy when she eats foods that have grains in them….I have no choice but to feed her grain free. In an abundance of caution with this report, I’m only going to feed her foods that have legumes or potatoes as the 6th or more ingredient. However, this only leaves me with 2 foods in my rotation (Nutrience subzero and Valens).
Does anyone have an recommendations for grain free foods that don’t have legumes or potatoes in their first 5 ingredients? (Other than Orijen, her poops weren’t good on that brand, and with all the contamination/lawsuit/buy out rumors I’m not going to chance it with that one.)

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. 🙂

[Reese B]

I thought so too, Patricia, but according to my math the fat is higher in the freeze dried.
I have e-mailed Primal again to re-clarify my question and see if I can get a better response. I’ll let you know what I hear back.

In the mean time, can anyone clarify if my math is right?

If I converted it from wet to dry matter correctly, the protein should be 58% and the fat should be 17%, right??

[Reese B]

I know this is a super old thread, but my gets these too and I thought I’d post in case anyone else searches for this topic.
My vet said they are called idiopathic head tremors. She said they not uncommon and nothing to worry about.
My dog doesn’t have these often, maybe once every 3-4 months, but I find that if I let her lick some peanut butter off of a spoon it snaps her right out of it.

https://www.vetneurochesapeake.com/uncategorized/six-questions-about-idiopathic-head-tremors/

[Reese B]

Thanks! With so many varying opinions on dog food ingredients, its hard to figure out what’s true. Please keep me updated if you find any info on tricalcium phosphate.

[Reese B]

I give raw carrot pieces to my dog all the time. She loves it! Just like with anything else, don’t over do it. A few pieces here and there are nothing to worry about.

[Reese B]

This reply is a little late, but it seems like you’ve done a bunch of research! Good for you!
I personally like to rotate brands after every bag. I have 4 brands right now and when one is done I move on to another that has a totally different protein source.
For instance, I use Valens (Chicken & turkey), then Farmina (boar), then Petkind tripe (Venison), and then Nutram (Lamb).
I like to keep the protein content of the brands around the same, around 28-30%. I’m sure as you try different formula’s, you’ll find a good ratio of proteins, fats and carbs that works for your dog.
For toppers, I like to use K9 naturals canned tripe and olewo carrots. (The carrots are really good for helping with healthy firm poops) I also like to add some green lipped mussel powder.
I’m sure with time, you’ll find what works best for your little guy. He’s super cute by the way!

[Reese B]

I don’t like that dog food companies base their standards of heavy metal limits by the NRC. The NRC regulates live stock, not pets. They regulate animals that will not live long enough to feel the effects of toxins in their food. I would like to find a dog food company that holds their standards to what would be acceptable for a human to eat.

Maybe they aren’t doing anything illegal, but it doesn’t mean it’s right for our pets. I worry about feeding any commercial dog food to my dog. I still do, but and I rotate the brands and feed home cooked when I can.
With all the re-calls and allegations out there, it’s scary to feed any brand…but I’d rather be safe than sorry. I haven’t feed my dog orijen or acana for a long time and after this, I don’t think I can ever again.

[Reese B]

Did anyone see the picture that clean label project posted on their facebook page? It’s a comparison of how much lead and arsenic are in orijen food compared to human regulations and category average. It definitely has me concerned.

[Reese B]

Hi Pitluv,
I also emailed the clean label project, and I too haven’t gotten a response from them (and all I asked was if they tested the american or canadian version of Orijen).
I’m going to try asking them on their FB page as they seem to write back to questions much quicker there, but at this point I’m not putting too much faith in their credibility.

[Reese B]

If anyone’s curious, this is the response I got from Champion pet foods regarding their response to the test:

Thank-you for contacting us. After numerous attempts to contact the Clean Label Project between April 10th and 13th, we had a conference call with the members of their team as well as Ellipse Analytics lab on April 18th.

Clean Label Project explained their objective to test pet food brands for difference contaminants, then compare and rate them based on their own star-rating system. Clean Label Project noted that they did not conduct any safety assessment of the results against the National Research Council (NRC) or FDA safety standards for companion animals. Rather, the results were compared to the EPA water quality levels which they believe the general public would be familiar with. We suggested that a comparison to the correct NRC or FDA standards would be more valuable to both pet lovers and the industry.

Although actual testing results and detailed methodologies were not provided, as a follow up to our conversation, we later received a quote from Ellipse Analytics where we could pay to receive detailed test results as well as a reference to their pet food certification process.

Our Champion guidelines for toxic heavy metals are based on the limits determined by the NRC for cats and dogs. Monitoring heavy metal levels is an important control point for us, and part of our HACCP program. We preform testing on our own foods and they are also tested for all heavy metals by a third-party accredited laboratory and these results range far below stipulated NRC levels.

Again, we affirm that our foods offer exceptional nutrition, food safety and peace of mind to pet lovers. We are committed to producing Biologically Appropriate dog and cat foods that are trusted by pet lovers everywhere and will continue to keep you updated on this situation as information becomes available.

I hope this information was helpful to you. If you have any questions please let me know.

[Reese B]

I recently discovered that site too. I’m not sure how legitimate it is. I find it very fishy that they won’t release the data on WHAT was found in the pet food, they only give it a star rating leaving consumers unsure of what’s in the pet food. It seems really suspect that they would tell consumers that certain pet foods are bad but not tell us why. I tried to do some research on them but couldn’t find much, but I did come across this reddit AMA with them that’s worth a read. Everyone seemed to question their legitimacy, and they didn’t have any real answers to questions.

We are the Clean Label Project, a nonprofit that identified dangerous contaminants present in popular pet foods. Ask us anything!
byu/Cleanlabelproject inIAmA

However, now it’s got me questioning if my pet food is full of contaminants. I recently switched to orijen which got a very low rating. I’m going to reach out to orijen to see if they have any response to this.

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