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Patricia A

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  • Patricia A
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    I had a chihuahua who ate her poop and my other two’s. No health problems, just loved to eat “left overs” lol. They do their business in our backyard. I would stand with pooper scooper in hand and always be right close by with Tia after ANY of them pooped. As soon as she started to go for it I would sternly say her name and immediately pick it up and put in our pooper bin. NEVER let her get one chance to eat it. I was VERY diligent for over two months until she didn’t even TRY because she knew i’d pick it up and with the stern saying her name she knew I didn’t approve. Her habit was broken and now I don’t have to follow anymore. Haven’t eaten pooh in two years. Hope this works for you.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    That’s great news Ryan. So happy you found a food he enjoys and is not causing any stomach upset. What a relief for you and him. Advisor gave dog food 5 stars also. Thank’s for the update.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Thank you Lee. Also from NY here. I have the opposite problem with my picky one who ONLY wants to eat kibble topped with home made food such as boiled chicken, salmon, steak etc which I don’t always have available. On days when she only gets the kibble topped with freeze dried she holds out eating so I feed her later. She realizes she better start eating because kitchen is closing for the day.lol And it’s NOT the taste of the food because I’ve been through so many different canned foods and all the different proteins of the stellas and Primal that I could open up my own Pet Supply store. Even tried human grade Stella chewys new stews which again she turned her nose up too.
    I actually bought Rawabble Beef thinking it might be better for my eight year old Chihuahua who loves all food but is a little chubby. It was right next to the Primal and Stellas.But then took it back same day because didn’t read enough people on this board feeding it and thought I better stick to a the Primal and Stella’s until I get more feedback that it’s a good quality freeze dried.
    Running out of the Primal turkey/Sardine so will pick up a bag of the Rawablle beef which shows AVERAGE fat. I could never feed the beef with either Primal or Stella’s because of the high fat with that recipe. Maybe my picky one will even love the beef .Thank’s again for your feedback on this food.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 12 months ago by Patricia A.
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Pitlove my picky one won’t touch actual raw. I’m shopping and cooking for my elderly parents and I need the convenience of the bags of freeze dried . My 16 year old is hungry earlier. My eight year old will eat all day if I let her and my three year old will only pick if she’s not fed early evening. The younger two are the only ones that gets the freeze dried so it’s affordable for me. These are the ingredients in the Turkey/Primal :Turkey, Turkey Necks, Whole Sardines, Turkey Hearts, Turkey Livers, Organic Collard Greens, Organic Squash, Cranberries, Blueberries, Organic Pumpkin Seeds, Organic Celery, Organic Sunflower Seeds, Montmorillonite Clay, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Cilantro, Organic Ginger, Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Quinoa Sprout Powder, Alfalfa,Dried Organic Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Mixed Tocopherols (natural preservative).
    Is Stella’s better with the salmon/Cod recipe? Ground salmon with bones, ground cod with bones, cod liver oil, pumpkin seed, organic cranberries, organic spinach, organic broccoli, organic beets, organic carrots, organic squash, organic blueberries, fenugreek seed, potassium chloride, tocopherols (preservative), sodium phosphate, choline chloride, dried Pediococcus acidilactici fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Bifidobacterium longum fermentation product, dried Bacillus coagulans fermentation product, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, taurine, calcium carbonate, vitamin E supplement, thiamine mononitrate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, sodium selenite, niacin supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid.
    Appreciate any feedback in a better raw.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Thank you Bill for the info and reassurance to stick with the raw. I have a base of Stella Chewy’s Kibble but it a VERY small portion of their diet. I rotate with Primal duck, rabbit, turkey Sardine and venison. They only like rehydrated freeze dried. Stella’s I only give the chicken and salmon cod. They also get a little egg in morning. When we have steak or salmon they get lucky and have that as a topper. I have three chihuahuas’. One being 16 who is still very spunky. She took a liking to the Stella’s kibble small breed. I switched from Fromm because I thought it was a better kibble. So it’s great to have all three on the same one.As said it’s only used as less then 1/8 cup . The 16 year old will not eat any of the raw. She lovers a topper of wellness core chicken/broccoli only. I just hate the carrageenan in it but at 16 I’m glad she eats enthusiastically. Trying hard to get my slightly chubby eight year old to lose some weight. She gets a lot of exercise and eliminated the origen treat for her. Cut down on everything but still not losing. Primal shows lower then average carbs as well as Stella’s.. I have yet to find a freeze dried that has NO carbs. Suggestions appreciated.
    Crazy4cats I think your’e right. I’m thinking of all the crappy dog foods sold at supermarkets that have very little meat and this taurine deficiency was not a problem. Hope we find out the link soon. Until then legumes, potatoes, pea protein etc. should be far down the list of ingredients just in case.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Sorry..I forgot to paste the other article I was referring to above with my last post. https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/is-protein-deficiency-hurting-your-dog/

    Patricia A
    Participant

    So in further research I found this article that I think makes sense to me. What I took away from it is that it’s both grains AND starches that displace quality protein that intern causes amino acid deficiencies. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Now I’m feeding some kibble with topper of freeze dried raw. But trouble is according to article raw with high fat means they are not getting enough protein from the raw diet. I wish I can find a raw that’s not also high in fat. I am just exhausted from my daily dog food research already and now this new worry about grain free. My take is that when companies got on the band wagon of touting “NO CORN, NO SOY etc” they just replaced it with other cheap fillers and fooled everyone into thinking all grain free recipes are outstanding foods.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Dr. Becker wrote …Unfortunately, some processed pet food advocates are using the link between grain-free dog foods and DCM to try to push pet parents back in the direction of grain-based diets. Don’t be fooled. The problem with grain-free formulas isn’t the lack of grains! It’s the high level of starchy carbohydrates coupled with the extreme high-heat processing methods used to produce these diets.
    So would I be safe to assume a commercial raw as I’m feeding is safe? What about low carb kibble? Very confused.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Just like to share this. By Dr. Karen Shaw Becker

    Thirty years ago, researchers at the School of Veterinary Medicine at University of California, Davis discovered the link between taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM), a heart muscle disease in cats.1 According to Morris Animal Foundation, “The veterinary community was stunned” by this news, in part because the UC-Davis researchers were able to prove that DCM was reversible when cats received the amount of taurine they needed in their diet.2

    Of course, most holistic veterinarians and others knowledgeable about veterinary nutrition and who understand the link between diet and disease weren’t surprised. Taurine, which is an amino acid, is found in meat, and cats, as meat-eating obligate carnivores, haven’t developed the ability to make their own taurine.

    This means it’s an essential amino acid for cats — they must get it from their diet, and 30 years ago when UC-Davis veterinarians made their discovery, we were well into the age of processed pet food, having made cats (and dogs) almost entirely dependent on humans for their nutrition.

    Pet food formulators often guessed at the effects of extensive processing on nutrients. This is especially true for pet food (feed) that blends leftover pieces and parts from the human meat processing industry with other sources of questionable nutrients before they are rendered and cooked at high temperatures, depleting the nutrients that existed before processing, as well as altering the chemical composition of ingredients (and often creating toxic byproducts along the way).

    Are Dogs With DCM Taurine-Deficient?
    As soon as the UC-Davis researchers published their findings in cats back in the late 1980s, veterinary cardiologists began looking for taurine and other nutrient deficiencies in their canine patients with DCM.

    No direct cause-and-effect relationship could be established, since the vast majority of dogs with DCM weren’t taurine-deficient. Taurine is not considered an essential amino acid for dogs because like many other species, their bodies have the metabolic capacity to manufacture taurine from the dietary amino acids cysteine and methionine.

    To further confuse the issue, while the disease is inherited in certain breeds, for example, the Doberman Pinscher, in other breeds it is indeed linked to taurine deficiency. In the mid-1990s, UC-Davis conducted a study of American Cocker Spaniels with DCM and found low taurine levels in many of the dogs. The study authors wrote in their abstract:

    “We conclude that ACS [American Cocker Spaniels] with DCM are taurine-deficient and are responsive to taurine and carnitine supplementation. Whereas myocardial function did not return to normal in most dogs, it did improve enough to allow discontinuation of cardiovascular drug therapy and to maintain a normal quality of life for months to years.”3

    A 2003 study showed that some Newfoundlands had taurine deficiency-related DCM,4 and two years later, another study was published about a family of Golden Retrievers with taurine deficiency and reversible DCM.5 As veterinary cardiologists continued to encounter cases of taurine deficiency-related DCM in dogs, and continued to search for a common link, diet was thought to play a major role in development of the disease.

    UC-Davis Is Currently Conducting Research on Taurine Deficiency-Related DCM in Golden Retrievers
    The dogs receiving the most focus right now due to escalating rates of DCM related to taurine deficiency are Golden Retrievers. Veterinarian and researcher Dr. Joshua Stern, Chair of the Department of (Veterinary) Cardiology at UC-Davis, and owner of a Golden Retriever Lifetime Study participant named Lira, is looking into the situation.

    He’s collecting blood samples and cardiac ultrasound results from Goldens both with DCM and without the disease. Stern agrees diet plays a role, but he also suspects there are genes at work that increase the risk of the condition in the breed.

    “I suspect that Golden Retrievers might have something in their genetic make-up that makes them less efficient at making taurine,” Stern told the Morris Animal Foundation. “Couple that with certain diets, and you’ve given them a double hit. If you feed them a diet that has fewer building blocks for taurine or a food component that inhibits this synthesis, they pop up with DCM.”6

    Dr. Stern has written an open letter to veterinarians and owners of Goldens that you can read here. In it, he briefly explains his research and recommends a four-step process dog parents can undertake if they believe their pet is at risk for, or is showing signs of DCM:

    1. If you believe your dog is at risk for taurine-deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM) and wish to have taurine levels tested, please request a whole blood taurine level be submitted (lithium heparin tube) for analysis. The laboratory I recommend can be found here.

    2. If you believe your dog is showing signs of DCM already, please seek an appointment with a board-certified cardiologist to have an echocardiogram and taurine testing obtained simultaneously — do not change foods, do not supplement prior to the appointment.

    3. If you receive taurine test results that come back as low, please seek an appointment with a board certified cardiologist to have an echocardiogram performed to determine if your pet needs cardiac medications and the appropriate supplements to be used (DO NOT SUPPLEMENT OR CHANGE FOODS UNTIL YOU HAVE THE CARDIOLOGY EVALUATION COMPLETED).

    If you live in close to UC Davis, we can arrange research-funded cardiology evaluations for your dog if you contact at this email address.

    4. If you receive cardiologist-confirmed DCM results, please take an image of the food bag, ingredient list and lot number. Please also request a copy of the images from the echocardiogram from your cardiologist (ensure that you have full DICOM image copies on a CD). Please download and complete the full diet history form found at this link.

    Please email the image of food bag, a three-generation pedigree, diet history form, copies of the taurine level results and medical record to this email address. A member of our laboratory team will contact you to discuss our thoughts and possibly request additional information, food samples or blood samples for further testing.

    Stern wants to get to the bottom of this issue as fast and as medically appropriately as possible. He hopes to publish his initial findings soon and offer scientifically based guidelines for Golden parents regarding diet and DCM. If you’re interested in published research on taurine deficiency and canine DCM, Stern also created a collection of files you can download at this link.

    A Particular Brand of Grain-Free Kibble Is Implicated in Some Cases of Diet-Related DCM in Goldens
    Although Stern doesn’t discuss specific diets in his letter linked above, according to Dr. Janet Olson of Veterinary Cardiology Specialists:

    ” … [T]he majority of cases [of taurine deficiency-related DCM in Golden Retrievers] they [Stern and his team] are seeing at UC-Davis are from grain free diets that are high in legumes, like ACANA pork and squash [kibble].”7

    Other sources, including a Golden Retriever owner in Mountain View, CA who contacted us, also mention the same food — ACANA Pork and Squash Singles Formula limited ingredient kibble made by Champion Petfoods. According to my Mountain View source, Dr. Stern has been following a group of Goldens with DCM who had been eating the ACANA formula, and a year later, after changes to their diet, taurine supplementation and in some cases, the use of heart medications, all 20+ dogs either fully or significantly recovered.

    Consumers who’ve contacted Champion about the issue receive a response stating that taurine isn’t an essential amino acid for dogs, and ACANA and ORIJEN diets are formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles for all life stages. (Since taurine isn’t considered an essential amino acid for dogs, AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles establish no minimum requirement for taurine.)

    Champion acknowledges that a taurine deficiency may contribute to the incidence of DCM in genetically susceptible dogs, but states their diets aren’t formulated for dogs with “special needs.”

    Are All the Starchy Ingredients in Grain-Free Kibble to Blame?
    Since grain-free dry dog food is a relatively new concept, it’s quite possible there’s something about the high-starch (carb) content in these diets that depletes taurine levels and/or makes the taurine less bioavailable. The problem might be related to a chemical reaction (called the Maillard reaction) between taurine and a carbohydrate during the extrusion process that depletes the digestible taurine level in the food.

    And while legumes are being singled out as the potential problematic ingredient, grain-free kibble is often higher in both whole carbohydrates and purified starches (e.g., pea starch, potato starch and tapioca starch) than grain-based dry dog food. The higher the starch level in any pet food, the less protein is included.

    In a study published in 1996 on the effect of high heat processing of cat food on taurine availability, the researchers noted, “These results suggest that Maillard reaction products promote an enteric flora that favors degradation of taurine and decreases recycling of taurine by the enterohepatic route.”8

    Said another way: The byproducts of the chemical reaction between amino acids and sugars (carbs) in dry cat food alter the microbiome (gut bacteria), causing degradation of the taurine in the food, reducing its availability to the cat, and also preventing the taurine from being efficiently recycled by the cat’s body.

    An earlier study published in 1990 that looked at taurine levels in a commercial diet that was fed heat-processed to some cats and frozen-preserved to others drew the same conclusion. The researchers stated ” … processing affects the digestive and/or absorptive process in a manner that increases the catabolism of taurine by gastrointestinal microorganisms.”9

    Other Factors That Influence the Taurine Content of Pet Food/Feed
    A 2003 study published in the Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition looked at taurine concentrations in the ingredients often used in both home prepared and commercial pet diets, as well as how cooking influences taurine content.10

    The researchers reported that animal muscle tissue, especially marine animals, contains high levels of taurine, whereas plant-based ingredients contained either low or undetectable amounts. Also, the amount of taurine that remains after cooking is somewhat dependent on the method of food preparation. When an ingredient was cooked in water (e.g., boiling or basting), more taurine was lost unless the water used to cook the food was included with the meal.

    Food preparation that minimized water loss (e.g., baking or frying) retained more of the taurine, however, it’s important to note that heat processing in any form destroys anywhere from 50 to 100 percent of taurine present in raw food. In addition, extended periods of storage of processed pet foods, and freezing, thawing and grinding of raw pet food also depletes taurine content.11

    Another UC-Davis study published in 2016 evaluated the taurine status of large breed dogs fed low-protein diets (lamb and rice formulas), since they are now known to be at increased risk for taurine deficiency-related DCM.12 The researchers specifically looked at the ingredients rice bran and beet pulp used in many of these diets, and determined that while rice bran didn’t seem to be a primary cause of taurine deficiency, beet pulp may be a culprit.

    Both rice bran and beet pulp bind bile acids (bile acids should be recycled, which effectively recycles taurine) in the small intestine, and increase excretion (which is undesirable) because it depletes taurine by interfering with the enterohepatic recycling of taurine-conjugated bile salts and lowers total body taurine levels.

    Grain-free/”low-protein” commercial diets are very high in carbohydrates, which displace amino acids. They also contain anti-nutrients (e.g., saponins, trypsin inhibitors, phytates and lectins) that may interfere with taurine absorption. When you add in the high-heat processing used to manufacture kibble, it’s hardly surprising these diets aren’t an adequate source of taurine for many dogs.

    How You Can Protect Your Dog
    Those of us who are passionate about animal nutrition have been having a painful awakening for some time now about just how nutrient-deficient many dogs and cats are today. The taurine-DCM issue in dogs is yet another example that animals need much higher levels of bioavailable amino acids from a variety of sources than most are consuming.

    Unfortunately, some processed pet food advocates are using the link between grain-free dog foods and DCM to try to push pet parents back in the direction of grain-based diets. Don’t be fooled. The problem with grain-free formulas isn’t the lack of grains! It’s the high level of starchy carbohydrates coupled with the extreme high-heat processing methods used to produce these diets.

    Until we have much more information on the subject, my current recommendation is to supplement all dogs with high-taurine foods, no matter what type of diet they’re eating. An easy way to do this is to simply mix a can of sardines into your pet’s meal once a week. You can also find the taurine content of many other foods on page two of this study and also in this Raw Feeding Community article.

    If you have a breed or breed mix known to be susceptible to DCM (e.g., Golden Retriever, Doberman Pinscher, Cocker Spaniel, Boxer, Great Dane, Scottish Deerhound, Irish Wolfhound, Saint Bernard, Afghan Hound, Dalmatian, Portuguese Water dog, Old English Sheepdog, Newfoundland), especially if you’ve been feeding grain-free kibble, or if for some other reason you’re concerned about your dog’s heart health, I recommend following Dr. Joshua Stern’s four-step process outlined above, starting with a visit to your veterinarian.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Sorry about that. I didn’t know I wasn’t allowed to put in other Dog Food Review sites so it blanked it out. Tried to delete post but wouldn’t allow me. Anyway the site I was referring to started with Clean and ended with Project. Hope i’m allowed to put that .

    in reply to: Purina one puppy #118332 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    Patricia A
    Participant

    /dog-food-reviews/purina-dog-food/

    • This reply was modified 7 years ago by Patricia A.
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Deborah it’s gets tricky feeding small dogs like ours. They’re diet is so limited in the amount they eat that I can afford to feed them what I hope to be the best nutritionally. I’m relieved you said that he’s tolerating the S&C. Started with the S&C rabbit and venison a few weeks ago after using primal .So far so good with stools and no vomiting. I know they are intolerant of too much fat. I found this out when years back I would give them some hamburger over they’re kibble and the next day they had diarrhea. Even with lean steak meat. If I gave them little of broiled steak two days in a row over they’re kibble same thing with diarrhea. With canned beef same problem. I’m now hoping that the Rabbit has less calories and fat and my chubby one will lose. But I’m waiting for this raw feeding to all go south if I keep on feeding because of the fat. Stella also came out with a stew so I will look into that.Maybe less fat and I can alternate. Thank you for posting . I thought I was the only one who was concerned about the fat in these raws.

    • This reply was modified 7 years ago by Patricia A.
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Hey Ryan….I came across this food from others who wanted a legume/lentil/ pea free dog food because of allergies. This got very high ratings and dogs are doing great on it. Please check it. /dog-food-reviews/sport-dog-elite-series-dog-food/

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Thank you again Spy. I feel like crying just thinking about starting over with new food . I have been cutting the kibble little by little . If I continue to feed a little kibble with their food I will research just a switch to a VERY low carb/high protein and average fat since they get enough fat from the raw. Let you know if I start to see any results. She also have a vet appt coming up and will ask about blood work for any thyroid issue.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Thank you Spy for replying. Originally they were all eating Fromm grain free with a topper of health extension Vets Choice Chicken. Also toppers when I cooked of boiled chicken, salmon and steak if they were lucky that day. Its was a long winter and walks were very limited. Also when my three year old Chi put her nose up at the Fromm and topper Tia would steal before I had a chance to grab it from her. Hence the weight gain. My 16 year old is still her old food which at her age she’s been doing VERY well with. Of course she gets EXTRA chicken etc when others not looking at this point in her life. I finally gradually switched to the Stella’s kibble but really it’s a VERY small amount of her diet. Also cut down to tiny bit of the steak, salmon etc when we ate that because I think I was over doing the amount. So between the walks, treats cut out and her food being cut down I thought by now she would show a trimmer body type. So now you said Stella kibble is high in carbs. Even though it says low. I think her other food was average carbs so I thought I was doing better with that. Below is the list of foods I’ve been giving so far with the freeze dried. It’s ahttps://primalpetfoods.com/products/raw-freeze-dried-canine-duck-formula#variant=35868839058lways dehydrated with warm water. Thank you for your help. https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/freeze-dried-raw-dinners/patties/venison-blend https://primalpetfoods.com/products/raw-freeze-dried-canine-turkey-sardine-formula#variant=36371519122https://primalpetfoods.com/products/raw-freeze-dried-canine-duck-formula#variant=35868839058
    Is this kibble recipe lower in carbs? https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/raw-coated-kibble/beef-recipe

    • This reply was modified 7 years ago by Patricia A.
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Spy car I’m sorry to hijack these posts to help Ryan but you are the only i’ve read addressing fat benefits in dogs diet. I’ve posted several times about my concerns regarding my transition to Stella Chewy’s and Primal freeze dried with no replies. I have a should be 5lb chihuahua who is over weight. Switched about 6 months ago from Fromm grain free with canned topper. I’m not seeing any weight lose even though her walks have increased significantly. I’ve read that a 5lb dog should be getting between 80 and 120 calories a day. She gets Stella Chewy’s kibble of just 1/8 cup with less than 1 Patty or nugget a day. Morning my husband makes hard boiled egg and it is divided between my other two Chis’ of 16 year old and 3 years old . So she’s getting about 110 a day. I eliminated any treats and also totally stopped her food stealing from the other dogs. She SHOULD have lost but I still see a fat layer over her shoulder blades. You wrote about carbs causing weight gain. Stella and Primal says low carbs.I’ve read on small breed forums that their dogs actually LOST weight on the same foods I’m giving her. I love giving them the different flavors of rabbit, venison and primal’s Turkey/Sardine. It’s convenient but mostly I feel so good about feeding them something better then canned or kibble. I’m at a loose what to do. She’ll be eight and want to get her trim.
    Also Ryan I feel so bad for you. You’re trying so hard and I know my sleepless nights regarding worrying about your pet. I agree with the strickly boiled chicken n rice until her stomach is better. Then GRADUALLY adding anything but Science Diet. Like you said I think also the allergies are going to have to take a back seat to her stomach at this point.

    • This reply was modified 7 years ago by Patricia A.
    • This reply was modified 7 years ago by Patricia A.
    Patricia A
    Participant

    This might help also /forums/topic/no-legumes-but-decent-rating/

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Now that his blood work for high trigs is negative, you’re only dealing with the allergies. Got to get your dog to eat something before he gets gastritis from empty stomach. Please look at all of these choices which most are pea legume free. http://petfoodreviewer.com/best-dog-foods-without-peas/

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Hi Saundra…I feel for you. I have three chihuahuas. One being 16 who has one kibble and topper she eats(with EXTRA cooked food for her when the others aren’t looking) I then had to search for another kibble and topper when the younger one got very picky and stopped eating.Had to find topper and kibble that would agree with BOTH of them so as not to be buying like 6 different brands of food of wet and dry etc. FInally have them transitioned over to the Stella’s kibble and freeze dried raw. I’m able to get recipes like rabbit topper for the one that gains weight easily and duck for the picky one. Sometimes she still needs another topper on top of the topper to get her going. But so far so good fingers crossed. Don’t remember being this worried about what I was feeding my kids when they were little.. I really need some grandchildren. lol Hope the Merrick works out for you.

    • This reply was modified 7 years ago by Patricia A.
    Patricia A
    Participant

    When my dogs start eating grass it is always followed by vomiting and then not wanting to eat the food. Then it’s a vicious cycle of empty stomach and vomiting bile. I would say the switch but since it’s been months they are used to the food. Maybe in the long run its’ too rich for them? Maybe it’s time for some boiled chicken and rice to get their stomach healed and then slowly introduce the food again. I know I can take back any food at my pet supplies store and they give me full credit. Maybe you can buy a smaller bag and try to introduce the food again just in case it did go rancid. If the grass eating starts again maybe a new food search is warranted.

    in reply to: Not sure what to feed #117604 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Well one thing i’ve learned is that what’s best for one dog does not always work for yours. But I recently switched from Fromm with canned topper for my two Chihuahuas. I’m having success with Stella cheesy raw coated kibble but it’s expensive However they get VERY little of that with a topper now of Primal freeze dried. Very east since you just add the little bit of kibble and break up the freeze dried and add a little warm water to rehydrate. Bothe foods got high reviews. Many different protein types being Venison, Rabbit, Chicken, duck and their favorite Turkey and Sardine. Just have to make the change VERY slowly. Also of course whenever I have chicken I boiled some breasts for them with some carrots, string beans, tiny pieces of steak if they get lucky that day and also sometimes we have boiled salmon so get they a topper of that occasionally. We had a mini dachshund years ago and I know they tend to get back problems . So tried to always keep him trim.Hope this helps.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Just wanted to add he also might be shaking from hunger. Low fat dog food is not that appealing. If his trigs are okay I also think maybe this 5* food is good. Don’t think their is lentils and they have lamb recipes. /dog-food-reviews/american-journey-grain-free-dog-food/ I hope someone else posts also with more advice.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Hope that his blood levels come back normal. At least this way you’re just dealing with the allergie issues. I didn’t notice any probiotics in this food. Look under reviews to see all ingredients . It’s high protein/ low fat and carbs. Wellness Core Reduced Fat (Dry)> When I top my threes dog food I sort of just eyeball it. I don’t want them to just get full on the chicken and not eat their other food. with your size dog maybe 1/4 chunk of a breast. Good luck again.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Always wanted to add this: Hyperlipidemia refers to the elevation in blood lipids (fats) and is fairly common in dogs. After a dog eats a meal, triglycerides and cholesterol levels rise in the blood and then come back down to normal levels again within 3-10 hours. However, in hyperlipidemia, fat levels remain high for over 12 hours. Even in us humans if you test trigs before fasting it would be sky high after a meal. Do you have him on Rx because of high Trigs? If his trigs are normal after fasting maybe he just needs a 4 or 5* kibble . Like I said my dogs always did great with Fromm. My chihuahua is 16. I recently switched my other two to freeze dried Primal. Maybe a little boiled chicken/carrots/stringbeans to get his appetite going. If he’s shaking he just might be in pain though. Hope this helps.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    I feel your pain. I’ve actually had sleepless nights researching all the reviews and countless opinions on the best dog food. I’ve got three dogs and each has different nutritional needs. I gave Fromm for years if you want to look into their reviews. If you go to the top of site you’ll see “LIBRARY” . Click on that and Advisor give Best Low fat dog foods. I don’t think you have to be a member to see his list. Also I don’t know if Goggle News is reliable but I found this the other day. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2018/06/millions-of-roaches-plagued-maker-of-pedigree-iams-ceasar-other-pet-foods/#.WyWU0C3MzJ8. Just in case I’d stay away from Nutro. Hope this helps a little.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Going to call Primal today and will share . I notice a lot of us on these forums are confused about interpreting all the fat/protein/calorie analysis on labels and how it relates to their dogs needs. Wish the advisor would address this.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    I forgot to write that I do use their feeding calculator for my dogs’ weight and activity level. I just would like to know when I change proteins that I accordingly give a little less if the formula is higher in fat or can even give a little more if it’s lower in fat and calories.My one 5 pounder gains weight easily.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Thank you Susan for that info. Funny but when I read advisors analysis for Primal Freeze Dried he wrote Not suitable for all dogs because of the protein to fat ratio. But now I just went under his feeding type for adult dogs and the analysis was LOWER average fat for the sardine/turkey and rabbit freeze dried recipes. Vensison was average fat. Stella’s freeze dried were ALL ABOVE average fat . Still don’t know if the fat puts weight on dogs cause they are all low carbs. IN any case I’m staying away from the Stella’s and will be looking into what you suggested.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    I’m also transitioning to Stella Chewy’s baked kibble for my two chihuahuas’ with a little topper of Stella’s freeze dried. They were always on Fromm with topper but my younger one just stopped eating it. I tried the Fromm grain free which they both ate but I believe because of the above average fat caused weight gain in the older one. I still have my 16 year old Hannah on Fromm regular Four Star with the topper and would NOT switch her since she’s done very well on this. I now noticed that Stella’s freeze dried toppers are MUCH higher fat then Primal freeze dried. Primal states on their website that when freeze dried is hydrated it would be approx the SAME fat as their frozen in the same protein. They do not list product rehydrated analysis so I have to believe them when they say it’s the same as frozen when hydrated. So my comparison showed as an example:
    Primal Rabbit frozen(should be same for hydrated freeze dried?) Protein 17% Fat 5%
    Stella’s Rabbit freeze dried Protein 15.5% Fat 10%
    Primal Venison 19% Fat 5%
    Stella Venison freeze dried 15% Fat 10%
    The only freeze dried from Stella’s which is higher protein and lower fat is the Chicken
    Am I understanding this correctly that Primal IS lower in fat?. Tia is getting frequent walks and back yard trips now that winter is over and keeping an eye on hubby not to give any treats to get her weight down, I want to keep this great topper and not go back to canned or now even switch to Primal.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Sue my now 16 year old dog always had trouble with loose stools and very slowly switched her to Fromm years ago. Her coat got soft and no more stool problems. I also topped with a little Health Extensions chicken canned. She never did well with the beef or turkey. Advisor gave this five stars. So the Fromm I’ve been giving is Fromm Four Star Nutritionals. Did really well with the Salmon al Veg. The Four Star comes in several different proteins which you can rotate when done with one bag. Fromm also has grain free Four star Nutrionals but has higher fat so not sure if that would work. Please stay away from Science Diet.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Thank you for your help Susan and AC. I’m going to use the calculator today on the three brands I’m leaning towards.

    Patricia A
    Participant

    One more questions I’m confused about please. Why does the advisor have the Health Extensions on the regular list for 5 Star canned and NOT his editors choice list for a 5 star food? Does he know something about the food that would keep it off his choice list?

    Patricia A
    Participant

    When I gave my Chis’ the Primal from my mom’s I never thought to look at the recalls batch numbers from their recall a few months back.. I saw the list and it included Primal Turkey Freeze Dried but NOT Turkey and Sardine. Being new to Primal and Raw I didn’t realize it was one and the same until I looked at the Batch # on my bag.Only noticed this AFTER I called to complain. Guess the rep didn’t pick it up that I was giving him a batch # that WAS recalled. However, like I wrote the pieces were SO sharp an jagged that even the bones were 1/16″ I wouldn’t feel safe giving it to my little Chihuahuas’.
    So now Claire you’re saying it’s back to the big bone shards. I really don’t feel like digging through the dog food every time I feed them. Why aren’t these bones in all these foods just be grinder down to powder?? I’m sure it doesn’t change the nutritional value. I really hope more people call in for this new batch for a recall so they change grinder machines and get it right with ALL of these raw brands.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Patricia A.
    in reply to: Raw and weight gain????? #113502 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Thank’s for the link. It’s been a LONG winter in the east so walks haven’t been daily. I have three Chihuahuas’. My Hannah will be 16 in June. So not switching her Fromm with canned topper. She is still spunky and I sneak her a little more special treat of steak or fish when we have that for dinner . My Tia will be eight and is the one that’s chubby. Maybe about a 1 1/2lbs. over which makes a difference on a small dog. My problem started with my three year old who started putting her nose up at her kibble/canned topper. When I would turn my back Tia would gobble hers too. Or I would hand feed her the first bites and she would start to eat then I would come back to room with Tia eating the rest. So hence the weight gain also. So decided on the fromm with Stellas. So with calculator It said 204calories for 5lb dog . So Fromm is 408 per cup. Want to keep the kibble limited so they’ll get 1/2c for 50 calories which leaves me 150 more. The Stella’s beef patties are 75 per patty. So I think they need 2. Ten calories lower but they do get a little boiled egg in morning also. YEEEESH..I didn’t worry about my kids diet when they were young so much. I really need some grandchildren . lol

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Mike…
    Thank you so much for your informative reply to my questions. I will be sticking with Stella and Chewy’s as long as they’re doing well on it and now feel confident I’m feeding a quality food. I will also NOT be googling the goods and bads of dog food ingredients any longer. I know enough to question ingredients in dog food but have too little understanding of dog nutrition to discern between the truths and untruths out there on the internet. I’ll leave that for you. My Chihuahua girls and I thank you for this site.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
    in reply to: suncured alfalfa safe??? #113038 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Thank you for info. I am truly confused as to why Dog Food Advisor has Stella Chewy’s a five star kibble. It’s listed in top half of ingredients. Also found a list of amount of ASH in the food which is VERY high.
    The Dog food advisor has this food on his 2018 personal selection list. Now I don’t know what to believe.
    Ash (%)
    Stella’s Super Beef, FR
    3.56
    Stella’s Super Beef, FD
    11.0
    Chewy’s Chicken, FR
    3.32
    Chewy’s Chicken, FD
    16.5
    Duck Duck Goose, FR
    3.93
    Duck Duck Goose, FD
    10.8
    Dandy Lamb, FR
    3.93
    Dandy Lamb, FD
    10.4
    Surf ‘N Turf, FR
    4.01
    Surf ‘N Turf, FD
    11.9
    Simply Venison, FR
    2.15
    Simply Venison, FD
    6.9
    Absolutely Rabbit, FR
    4.07
    Absolutely Rabbit, FD
    12.1
    Phenomenal Pheasant, FR
    5.10
    Phenomenal Pheasant, FD
    14.8

    FD = Freeze Dried
    FR = Frozen Raw

    in reply to: Fromm vs Wellness Core #112855 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Thank you for replying with your feeding choices Cathy. The more I read the more confused I get. I always went with the Fromm kibble and rotated proteins. Just was disappointed to see that advisor gave them the 4 stars . Also been reading that kibble is the most processed going in the order of healthier would be dry worst, canned next freeze dried then raw. I don’t want to go raw but I would like to step up at least for my two younger ones with a 5 star canned topper and rotating with a 5 star kibble . So far only the little fatty7 year old Tia(Chihuahua) eats the freeze dried stella chewys topper. It’s my three year old Lola(Chihuahua) that is pickly I put the food down and turn around and the little fatty Tia is has gobbled hers already and is eating Lola’s. Hence I’m sure the weight gain also. I’ve tried feeding Lola much later but in the end I have to hand feed her or end up throwing away the bowl because kibble is mixed with the canned or freeze dried soaked topper. Then I try again later and she eventually eats it. I just tried topper with kibble of the Core Hearty Wellness canned. She seemed to at least show interest and eventually ate it with some coaxing. . She tends to wait until But I worry its like a stew and too fattening for the chubby one. Like I said my 16 year old is doing wonderful on the fromm/canned topper. Just would like to get the younger two on the same food and then concentrate on Tia giving her a consistent smaller amount for weight loss.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
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