[Patricia A]

Donna I haven’t noticed any new food reviews since Dr. Mike retired. I don’t trust old reviews of food since last updated years ago a lot of recipes have changed possibly. Disappointed because DFA always was my go to site for a starting point
food in what to feed.

• This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C,
It’s been awhile. I’m upset to hear that the med is losing effectiveness. I was researching and it was an eye opener when coming across an Epilepsy canine awareness Day. It must be a much more common problem then I realized. Don’t know if you’ve frequent, but Canine Epilepsy Facebook page is suggested for support and sharing experiences with meds, diet etc. etc.
In the process of moving my mom into assisted living. So might not be checking in for a bit again. Praying for control of your pups seizures and you also to be feeling much better.

[Patricia A]

I believe as a whole the food gets 5*. However, certain proteins/flavors in the brand receive lower ratings because their is too much fat to protein ratio. Many dogs’ have stomach upset with high fat levels. I stick to the 5*’s in the brand which are leaner proteins.
My dogs’ get lose stools with too much fat.

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 1 year ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C,
Haven’t checked here in a bit. Glad I did today for this new update. So happy to hear med is working so well for his seizures and blood work back to normal after elimination of that CBD oil.

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
Okay then that’s that. I’m laughing with the reply of “get out in the sun.”
So leaning towards the grain inclusive. Not perfect but better then others?
Thank Aimee❤️

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C,
Oh don’t be sorry about later reply. I missed yours also. Bad week for both of us yes. I’m so sorry his seizures necessitated medication. Oh, but such good news that no side effects. Praying meds make a big difference in number of seizures he’s been recently experiencing.
Going to look at Aimee’s reply to my questions that I just noticed I asked her in a past post. Uhhh …In need of a short vacation 😬

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
Please share when and if Purina updates with well what went wrong and what measures they will be taking to avoid this error. Of course, can never be free of human error.
Yes, I wanted to highlight in caps CLAIMS in the brands don’t use vitamin packs for for reason they tout. Just a bad feeling all around with feeding these. Have you ever did any anylsisi of what is lacking? Don’t think I’m using the right terminology but think you get what I’m asking with my level of simplicity . lol
A “toxin” suspected. Is there an article you can share please. I haven’t come across that as possible reasoning.
So these are the two trying to decide on. My concerns are barley for the grain. I know it’s high in fiber but also carbs. But is very good with digestibility.
The grain free from Stella’s has been changed from old recipe. People steering clear of all the legumes, I now notice only one listed instead of chickpeas etc. So positive change?? OH, just noticed when posting that 3rd ingredient is lentils. Could that mean same amount of legumes but just LOOKS like less since not 4 or 5 different legumes written?
Cage-Free Chicken Chicken Meal Oatmeal Pearled Barley Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols) Pumpkin Quinoa Chicken Liver Natural Chicken Flavor Chicken Gizzard Flaxseed Salmon Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols) Coconut Flour Salt Pumpkin Seeds Organic Cranberries Organic Spinach Organic Beets Organic Carrots Organic Squash Organic Blueberries Inulin (from Chicory Root) Thyme Sage Rosemary Extract Mixed Tocopherols (preservative) Dried Kelp Potassium Chloride Dicalcium Phosphate Taurine Choline Chloride Zinc Proteinate Iron Proteinate Copper Proteinate Manganese Proteinate Sodium Selenite Vitamin E Supplement Calcium Iodate Thiamine Mononitrate Niacin Supplement D-calcium Pantothenate Riboflavin Supplement Vitamin A Supplement Vitamin D3 Supplement Vitamin B12 Supplement Pyridoxine Hydrochloride Folic Acid Dried Pediococcus Acidilactici fermentation product Dried Lactobacillus Dried Bifidobacterium Longum fermentation product Dried Bacillus Coagulans fermentation product

Cage-Free Chicken Chicken Meal Lentils Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols) Chicken Liver Chicken heart Natural Chicken Flavor Salmon Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols) Suncured Alfalfa Chicken Gizzard Fenugreek Seed Flaxseed Coconut Flour Pumpkin Seeds Organic Cranberries Organic Spinach Organic Broccoli Organic Beets Organic Carrots Organic Squash Organic Blueberries Pumpkin Inulin (from Chicory Root) Thyme Sage Rosemary Extract Mixed Tocopherols (preservative) Dried Kelp Potassium Chloride Calcium Carbonate Taurine Dicalcium Phosphate Zinc Proteinate Iron Proteinate Copper Proteinate Manganese Proteinate Sodium Selenite Vitamin E Supplement Calcium Iodate Thiamine Mononitrate Niacin Supplement D-calcium Pantothenate Riboflavin Supplement Vitamin A Supplement Vitamin D3 Supplement Vitamin B12 Supplement Pyridoxine Hydrochloride Folic Acid Salt Dried Pediococcus Acidilactici fermentation product Dried Lactobacillus Dried Bifidobacterium Longum fermentation product Dried Bacillus Coagulans fermentation product
So didn’t get chance to put analysis. But if you could, just the ingredients in view at first is better choice. I’m rushing but I know it’s not just ingredients but which would you pick. thanks so much Aimee. Took over 1/2 hr. to write this in between tending to my mom’s needs. So please overlook errors in writing

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
Wondering if this was a human error of adding too much premix vs. premix formulation itself? Will that ever be know?
Aimee , every few days I have the chance to read your posts between yourself and M&C. I enjoy reading anything regarding dog food nutrition even though you two make me feel like a kindergartener in a PH.d course. lol But I know a lot more now then I did before . So thank you for being active on this forum.
I believe you know from my previous posts that I continue to feed a base of the Stella and Chewy’s. I’m aware that the FDA made a statement that will no longer comment with updates on DCM until they research further in a definitive cause. Will this ever be solved? However, I did read that cases were still being reported. What scares me is that effects of the cases that are diet related could be a slow burn and damage being done is not immediately symptomatic until years later. Correct me if I’m not correct in my understanding after reading several reports. I have read a very limited number of cases in small breeds as well for DCM diet related.
So the questions’ STILL are whether the legumes are blocking taurine. So any amount of taurine added will not help. What if toppers and home cooked are added. Would the taurine also not be available because of the kibble with legumes? Is it the legumes replacing animal protein? With this fear I have been transitioning to grain inclusive. My dilemma is I’m on 1/4 bag of grain and grain inclusive. Still undecided if next bag should be grain inclusive and eliminate the grain free. I’m also concerned about premix vitamin packs now.
When you have time Aimee, can you possibly give me some info between the two regarding which you would feel better feeding. I know you don’t care for the brand, but my Tia will be 13 and she does so well with it. Loli has the sensitive stomach and this was the only brand when I switched that she did so well with. Also, your take on these new brands with NO vitamin packs added. They CLAIM all the nutrioon from natural sources so does not require added premixes. These are Carna4, ND, Natures Logic.
I will post the two recipes’ later today. I deeply would appreciate your expertise in deciphering the good, the bad and the ugly between the two .

[Patricia A]

Thank you for correction C4C. Hate that they put out statement “We apologize to pet owners and veterinarians for any concerns or inconvenience this situation has caused. As pet experts and pet owners ourselves, the health and well-being of pets is our top priority.”

Apparently well being of our pets is NOT their top priority.

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C
Well relieved to tell you that the culprit of the digestive disturbance was NOT what I have been feeding nor the transitioning grain include Stella N Chewy’s. It was Sargentto cheddar cheese sticks. Hubby decided to treat them to a “little” bit each. His “little” bit was whole stick divided in three. I know cheddar is less lactose, however I also know that whenever I let Loli have even a tiny bit of vanilla ice-cream I’m eating (puppy dog look of “please can I have a little”) she will inevitably have stomach noises and not eat until I rub her stomach and gas is passed. So I put cooked string beans in tupperware and told hubby If they follow you into kitchen THAT is their snack so YOU feel better. lol
If you notice the reviews of food are starting again after new owners of site took over. Also glad I didn’t switch to PPP after the recall due to high Vitamin E levels in food. Guess a lot of pet owners who thought trusted brand will be very upset about this of course.
I myself am still on the fence of their base. Maybe I will alternate with the grain and grain free. Still always looking at options for topper of freeze dried since I do like to rotate those. I find in any brand they do well with the turkey and I believe that is a good protein source.
Hope to hear your pup is not experiencing any seizures at this time.I hope when you get a chance to go to reddit which seizure in dog questions, someone will relate and be of some help.

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C
Well relieved to tell you that the culprit of the digestive disturbance was NOT what I have been feeding nor the transitioning grain include Stella N Chewy’s. It was Sargentto cheddar cheese sticks. Hubby decided to treat them to a “little” bit each. His “little” bit was whole stick divided in three. I know cheddar is less lactose, however I also know that whenever I let Loli have even a tiny bit of vanilla ice-cream I’m eating (puppy dog look of “please can I have a little”) she will inevitably have stomach noises and not eat until I rub her stomach and gas is passed. So I put cooked string beans in tupperware and told hubby If they follow you into kitchen THAT is their snack so YOU feel better. lol
If you notice the reviews of food are starting again after new owners of site took over. Also glad I didn’t switch to PPP after the recall due to high Vitamin E levels in food. Guess a lot of pet owners who thought trusted brand will be very upset about this of course.
I myself am still on the fence of their base. Maybe I will alternate with the grain and grain free. Still always looking at options for topper of freeze dried since I do like to rotate those. I find in any brand they do well with the turkey and I believe that is a good protein source.
Hope to hear your pup is not experiencing any seizures at this time.I hope when you get a chance to go to reddit which seizure in dog questions, someone will relate and be of some help.

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C,
Begging my mom to help her into shower. Suddenly after her getting very upset she has no strength in legs. She hyperventilates when she doesn’t want to do something. Put her in bed and she’s calling me to help her in bathroom. Legs won’t hold and dead weight. Get portable wheel chair take her into hospital. Hours waiting for test results with her crying she’s fine and wants to go home. Left for awhile to eat, let dogs out. Called to pick her up that all tests came back fine. She’s walking fine. Couldn’t believe it. So happens to be the day of -15% wind chills. Uhh. Clean her whole room from the accidents from “not being able to walk” at 10 at night. So I imagine she talked herself into the weakness as to not shower.
Oh I’m so sorry about the seizures. I can’t give advice since mine are now taking turns of eating grass and not eating. As I said I have been for weeks transitioning to the grain inclusive. Equal amounts still of the old food. Same exact freeze dried toppers. Not new bags. Yesterday my 12 year old Tia did not want to eat her little boiled portion of egg for breakfast. Went into dinner. She was drinking water. NEVER did Tia not want to eat. So finally coaxed her with a little boiled white rice to start and little pieces of low fat cheddar.. Turned her nose at even her regular kibble. Now she’s eating again but Loli is eating grass and also didn’t want breakfast. Again nothing new at all in diet. My mom’s dog is fine. So now what??? Thought at least i can relax about at least the dogs’ with feeding and no problems. UHHH

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C,
Thank you for your kind words. Sometimes I just don’t feel like being caring. Then the guilt. I can relate to that dreaded “phone call”. Lived through that anxiety with my dad when he passed two years ago. I feel I’m at the point to look into assisted living. If not for her but for my husband and me. lol I joke however our health is going down being caregivers and we deserve some peace also in this stage of our lives.
I discovered REDDITT M&C. Just put in seizures in dogs reddit. Many people sharing what works for them and their experiences. Always help for any topic.

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C,
OH, the dreaded leptospirosis shot. My first dog was a tough little Doxie. Got him when my youngest was four. He would happily sit with my son riding his power wheels in the back yard. Had a pizza party for my daughter with friends. He had short little legs but managed to keep stretching out his neck and grabbed whole pie from picnic table. lol He was a character. My mom would make a lamb and we would give him the leg which had garlic all over it. Never mind the bone splinters from chewing. Now this is going back some 32 years ago. Didn’t know that garlic was toxic. Didn’t think about the splinters from the bone etc. Well the only health issue we ever had with him was that leptospirosis shot. Rushed him into emergency vet in evening after shot with his whole face swelling. We put him to rest past 17 years old after a brief time of kidney failure.
I never feed beef except when I buy 90% lean and even then after cooking and draining any fat I pat down well to get it as fat free as possible. Then just a little ontop of kibble. They never did well with red meat anything. So I stick to just one protein in the kibble which is chicken. The wild Red has several. I always choice turkey or turkey/sardine in the freeze dried. They all do well with that with no digestion upset for the one more prone. I have to research those copper levels in the Stella’s with the Wholesome grains in chicken. Yes, VERY concerned now about going down hill.
Just wanted to add M&C to be careful about plug ins with that oil of perfume. Heard it could trigger seizures. Also saw a ton of complaints regarding Hartz Oatmeal shampoo causing all kind of problems including seizures from a chemical they added??
I have my hands full with my mom . She’ll be 94 and had a bad night last night. So have to give a break with my hobbyturned obsession lol of the “perfect” dog food. Which I know now doesn’t exist. Heads up ..got an email that Dr. Mike has retired and handed over sight to two others who will continue what he started. So maybe will start to see more activity in the way of food rating. Take care M&C .

[Patricia A]

Hi M & C,
I’m sorry to hear of the passing of your pup from cancer. I know a neighbor also had a dog who passed from bone cancer. Her vet assured her that genetics played the role, absolutely nothing contributed in her care, and that most likely others from the litter would most likely succumb to osteosarcoma as well. I believe most common in large breeds.
The ONLY thing my dogs have in common are they are from breeders with the exception of my one Chloe who passed at 13. I didn’t know any better and purchased from a pet store. She was a Chihuahua. VERY sick when we bought her home. Did not eat and very weak to stand. That store closed down within a few weeks of purchase. Pups’ dying with all kinds of health issues. Yes, I knew nothing at the time of puppy mills where ALL these poor pups came from. Chloe gained her strength and remained healthy. She wasn’t acting herself one day. Just no energy. Tried to take her for short walk in the warmer weather and she just didn’t move. Called vet to bring her in next day appointment. Cough started with breathing difficulties. I just took her right in to vet without begging for appointment. Our usual vet gave chest X-ray and said pneumonia. “just take her home with these antibiotics . Take her in warm shower and tap chest.” “Antibiotics will start working and she’ll be fine.” I TRUSTED him. Woke up early to find her gums blue and gasping. Sped to vets’ who said hurry to the emergency hospital. They did all surgeries etc. She passed on my lap in car. It’s hard for me to write this and still after all these years I’m in mental anguish . Had several calls from head of my vets and my doctor apologizing for his error in judgement that a 13 year old with pneumonia, if it was even that I don’t trust now, should not have been let home. They were so worried about being sued I imagine that just all day long calls of “so sorry’s”. I’ve had many bad experiences at vets’. My Hannah needed knee surgery. Luxating patella common in small breeds. Doc insisted on all the shots before. They took her blood again at the large hospital who does the surgery. Came back extremely low white count. Did a bone marrow test. Diagnosis autoimmune from most likely shots. She went on thought to live 17 1/2 years and blood work eventually came back to normal. I stopped ALL shots for them . Loli who is eight only had her puppy shots and boosters. I don’t give ANY heart worm meds. I give checkups and blood work yearly.
Sorry rambling. Trying to get my mom to give me a minute. Uhhh. Migraine today so hope all makes sense. I believe your pup with seizures has nothing to do with food or your care. Just genetics M&C. Wondering if possible anyway you can find out if others have same in litter??? As for Thixton, I’m lost with rhyme or reason for which companies make her list. Certainly not ALL human grade or without synthetics I believe. Not ALL that are organic or humanity resourced. Would LOVE to know for instance why Primal was on one year and then not. That would at least give me an example of what she’s looking for. Uhhh Be well M&C. Glad to hear your pup’s anxiety has calmed which is a plus when it comes to seizures.

[Patricia A]

Hi M & C,
I’m sorry to hear of the passing of your pup from cancer. I know a neighbor also had a dog who passed from bone cancer. Her vet assured her that genetics played the role, absolutely nothing contributed in her care, and that most likely others from the litter would most likely succumb to osteosarcoma as well. I believe most common in large breeds.
The ONLY thing my dogs have in common are they are from breeders with the exception of my one Chloe who passed at 13. I didn’t know any better and purchased from a pet store. She was a Chihuahua. VERY sick when we bought her home. Did not eat and very weak to stand. That store closed down within a few weeks of purchase. Pups’ dying with all kinds of health issues. Yes, I knew nothing at the time of puppy mills where ALL these poor pups came from. Chloe gained her strength and remained healthy. She wasn’t acting herself one day. Just no energy. Tried to take her for short walk in the warmer weather and she just didn’t move. Called vet to bring her in next day appointment. Cough started with breathing difficulties. I just took her right in to vet without begging for appointment. Our usual vet gave chest X-ray and said pneumonia. “just take her home with these antibiotics . Take her in warm shower and tap chest.” “Antibiotics will start working and she’ll be fine.” I TRUSTED him. Woke up early to find her gums blue and gasping. Sped to vets’ who said hurry to the emergency hospital. They did all surgeries etc. She passed on my lap in car. It’s hard for me to write this and still after all these years I’m in mental anguish . Had several calls from head of my vets and my doctor apologizing for his error in judgement that a 13 year old with pneumonia, if it was even that I don’t trust now, should not have been let home. They were so worried about being sued I imagine that just all day long calls of “so sorry’s”. I’ve had many bad experiences at vets’. My Hannah needed knee surgery. Luxating patella common in small breeds. Doc insisted on all the shots before. They took her blood again at the large hospital who does the surgery. Came back extremely low white count. Did a bone marrow test. Diagnosis autoimmune from most likely shots. She went on thought to live 17 1/2 years and blood work eventually came back to normal. I stopped ALL shots for them . Loli who is eight only had her puppy shots and boosters. I don’t give ANY heart worm meds. I give checkups and blood work yearly.
Sorry rambling. Trying to get my mom to give me a minute. Uhhh. Migraine today so hope all makes sense. I believe your pup with seizures has nothing to do with food or your care. Just genetics M&C. Wondering if possible anyway you can find out if others have same in litter??? As for Thixton, I’m lost with rhyme or reason for which companies make her list. Certainly not ALL human grade or without synthetics I believe. Not ALL that are organic or humanity resourced. Would LOVE to know for instance why Primal was on one year and then not. That would at least give me an example of what she’s looking for. Uhhh Be well M&C. Glad to hear your pup’s anxiety has calmed which is a plus when it comes to seizures.

[Patricia A]

Hi M & C,
I was able to have some time to read some of the posts between you and Aimee. I have to admit my brain is fried already . I couldn’t even chime in to discussion because I don’t even know what questions to ask anymore. I started simple with grain free vs grain inclusive.My three small Chis’ are not inherently at risk for DCM. But doing some research SOME say that even though taurine is added to the food, the legumes could stop the absorption . I also think, as I said in another post that because of the mold from grain that killed a lot of dogs years ago, the grain free craze was the solution. But then of course the ingredient splitting possibly causing some DCM cases. So playing it safe with that and still mixing the grain free with the grain inclusive to transition. Then looking at ingredient second is chicken meal. It is SAID that has more protein since after taking out the water content from first ingredient that being chicken it’s very little. But the chicken meal will stay on top of ingredient list since not a lot of water in that? I know a simplistic understanding for me but
with the grain free and all the different legumes individually it would be on top of list when added together by weight. So another reason I switched to grain inclusive. Then I researched which grain added would be the best. Stella and Chewy’s recipe uses pearled barley . I would have rather had unshelled or barley groats. Don’t know if correct but the latter is better for micronutrients and fiber. But hoping that is made up with the other ingredients such as oatmeal and quinoa? I did see this question on The Dog food and Canine nutrition forum “Which of these 3 would u choose? I’m looking for the best raw coated, grain free kibble.
I couldn’t edit it to add pics but
#1 Stella & chewy wild red raw coated grain & legume free red meat recipe
#2 merrick backcountry raw infused grain free great plains red recipe
#3 instinct original grain free rabbit recipe”
All the posters chose the first recipe she put up with ingredients which turned out to be the Stella and Chewy’s . Got to compare their Wholesome grains vs the Wild Red and see how ingredients differ. For what it’s worth the one I’m currently transitioning to is baked. But at LEAST many agree it’s a good brand.
My dilemma now is that recently couldn’t find their kibble at my local Pet Supply store. I ordered from online who did have it in stock. So I wrote on that forum and this was a posters reply. ” I work in the pet industry 😬 and unfortunately that’s just the first step for the entire line to go into big box. When a big company like that continues to grow that’s just the next step on the ladder to climb.
That’s why a large amount of their inventory went on sale for Black Friday to clean house for the move to petco. There was a supply chain issue because they focused on making ONLY the line going into petco because those are massive orders to fill and unfortunately that’s where the big money is and that’s where the focus goes.
My guess would be their quality and ingredients and company will start to not be as good as it used to be. Just the process of the crazy pet industry”
So just when I relaxed a little of course this is what happens. Uhhhh
I’m so sorry to hear about your pups health issues. What breed and age and what’s the problems’ M&C? Don’t think I can be of any help because I think you know far more then I do from nutritional aspect. But after having several dogs’ throughout my life maybe health issue is something I’ve experienced with one.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C,
I’m laughing because we both share such similar concerns but wrote “better not digress”. EXACTLY my thinking. I keep opening up never ending worm holes .
” geek who designed the website accidentally manipulated facts from the company employees who actually understand dog nutrition, and then they just haven’t gotten around to correcting it.”That’s what I want to believe also.
Now what happens if the Small Batch assembly line didn’t mix up the garlic good and I ended up with a bag of the small Turkey freeze dried discs with and overload in it? I just have to just STOP. lol
All I can say is I’m glad my kids’ are grown because with the internet I’d be one nervous mom. “That analysis found 95% of store-bought baby food contained lead, 73% contained arsenic, 75% contained cadmium and 32% contained mercury. One-fourth of the foods tested that year contained all four heavy metals.” UHHH
Thank you for posting M&C. We are the best dog/cat mom ever. Because good moms’ always drive themselves nuts with anxiety when it comes to caring for their “fur babies”. lol

their “fur babies”. lol

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Hello M&C,
I was agonizing about switching my three to a grain inclusive food. I believe grain free recipes came about after all those deaths of dogs’ from the contaminated mold of corn.

(December 2005, a string of pet deaths and illnesses were linked to dog and cat food produced in Diamond’s South Carolina plant. A few different brands of pet food manufactured in the plant, including Diamond, were recalled, but not before the products were shipped out nationally as well as to more than 2 dozen other countries.

The pet food was thought to be contaminated with aflatoxin, a toxic byproduct of a mold that attacks corn under certain temperature and moisture conditions. Drought, insect damage to crops, and improper storage and handling can all increase the risk of contamination.

Unfortunately, more than 100 dogs were thought to have died in 2005–2006 as a result of the tainted Diamond pet food. It remains one of the worst pet food recall events in U.S. history. Diamond vowed to reimburse customers for veterinary bills and other costs.

I discovered a dog food nutrition forum few months ago. Well, I just became so overwhelmed with those advocating that ONLY PPP should be fed if I care about my dogs’ heart health. Then there are those who hate vitamin packs in dog food. So brands such as Carna4 and Natures Logic, has no necessity for added vitamins since their claim is nutritional needs all come about naturally from their quality of ingredients..

I definitely started to doubt my choice in Stella n Chewy’s when I read a statement on their website that they add Taurine because dogs’ can’t synthesize their own taurine. After writing to them about this huge error they corrected on their site. They also had an error with stating their kibble for large breed puppies would not be appropriate since contains not ENOUGH calcium.Even though I never had a large breed puppy, I THOUGHT they needed LESS calcium in a puppy food? The DFA board has been much less active then in years past. However, a member on the board that does frequent and has always given researched, detailed replies when I post questions assured me I was correct in my understand regarding the calcium needs. I was only looking at their recipes and guaranteed analysis for their grain inclusive recipes when I came across these errors.
Well after much agonizing I made decision to stick with what all three are doing well with. Probably not very scientific but I feel the kibble with the ADDED vitamin pack gives them proper nuitrion while I add the freeze dried with only the meat and organs . Like I wrote I rotate brands in this. However, I am now transition to their Wholesome Grains baked kibble and it is agreeing with all of them.
If you read my other posts you then know I am caregiver to my mom who now lives with us. I had my two Tia and Loli Chihuahuas’ but now have her Sophie Chihuahua also. She suffers from dementia so I am always rushing my posts so I hope what I write makes sense . I enjoy the time I have reading up on new brands of freeze dried to see if I should add in rotation. But I just can’t do the big change to a new brand of kibble . it’s a small part of their diet along with home cooked when appropriate. So I’m just not looking at the dog nutrition forum anymore to further confuse me and make me doubt my choice. I don’t know if correct but someone wrote this on reddit forum.
“Anyone have any experience feeding this to their dog? Legume-free, potato-free, corn-free, higher protein, and contains wholesome grains.
It fits all of the WSAVA guidelines from an ingredient and nutrition standpoint but does not comply with their staffing requirements. I called Stella & Chewy’s to ask about that and the sales rep I spoke to said the only thing keeping them from being considered “compliant” is that they don’t have their own ACVN-certified nutritionist on payroll full time, however, she did say they outsource testing regularly to a third party ACVN-certified lab (which she also added means it’s tested more thoroughly).
Just a thought for anyone looking to feed WSAVA compliant food but wants to avoid the filler ingredients in the big 4 corporate brands. Brands with grains but without legumes or corn seem tough to come by these days.
Between boutique brands telling you to feed your dog like a wolf to corporate brands telling you they’re “backed by science”, it’s hard to cut through the marketing BS in the dog food world.”
Anyways, I do believe our dogs’/cats for you also are eating better then us. At least me since I REALLY do need that Ben n Jerry’s Cookie Dough Icecream to relax me at night. While “the girls” get their string bean and Bixbi treat and when I’m not looking a piece of cheddar from my hubby. lol

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C,
I’m glad I still frequent this board even though not as active in the past. So glad I singed in today to learn about Steve’s. Will look into that brand because I always like to rotate the freeze dried with others. Glad to hear you had good experience with customer service also.
I wish Small Batch didn’t put the garlic in. I have the three Chihuahuas’ so hard for all three to well with. But they love the Turkey Small Batch and never digestive issues. So I have a small bag available and feed infrequently still. For what it’s worth this is what they wrote me back.
All of our diets are formulated in partnership with veterinary professionals to ensure safety of ingredients and ratios for nutrients – including garlic. There is a lot of misinformation surrounding this ingredient, which in small doses is actually highly beneficial for our pets. We use just 1lb of raw, organic garlic in every 1,500lb batch of food, and have been successfully incorporating this ingredient in our recipe for 17 years. Like many things, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing, and garlic falls into this category, which is why there is so much controversy out in the world when it comes to feeding it to our canine family members. Rest assured that the amounts we use are extremely minimal and safe, and just enough to lend nutritional benefits to our formulation for the dogs eating our diets.
Yes, I give Bixbi as treats. I’ll write with my experience with Steve’s.

[Patricia A]

Is she throwing up bile? Maybe several small meals throughout the day? What led the vet to believe acid reflux? Why low fat food without pancreatitis symptoms or X-rays showing the condition?

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
I get it all and understand those pet owners feeding PPP. Better no harm done. That being said, my Hannah Belle Chihuhua was fed Fromm half of her life that being grain free. Switched to Stella’s kibble grain free when she was I believe about nine . The only freeze dried she LOVED was a treat of origen. I wasn’t at all familiar with ANY freeze dried products at the time. Just know she would be so excited to eat a nugget. At the time Fromm and Orijen were “the very best” kibble to feed. We then got Tia from a breeder who had her two Chihuahuas’. She mated only once. She actually bred Great Danes. Had a very large property with horses also not too far from my home. Her Great Danes were in ads for Pergo flooring. Beautiful dogs’. Well she was feeding Stella n Chewy’s to the Chis’ along with Health Extensions. So when brought home Tia that is what I fed. Noticed Hannah would grab a few kibbles of the Stella’s so I transitioned her also. Hannah passed at over 17 1/2 years. She was extremely active until last few months of her life before putting her to rest. Vet only advised heart meds last few months of her life. She had MVD very common in small breeds. My Tia now is 12 1/2 and has been on Stella’s all her life. Very active and LOVES her added freeze dried to the kibble. I relieved to see that Stella’s as a brand was not called by fDA and not at all one of the foods implicated as being fed in DCM. I’m going to have to stick with what’s working with good stool, energy, no digestive issues and good checkups’ . Vet said don’t change if working. If ANYTHING changes in their checkups I will certainly talk to my vet about PPP.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Trying to say is that dogs’ got sick with grain inclusive and grain free was the craze so we did not unintentionally kill our dogs . Now back to grain inclusive to stop us from unintentionally killing our dogs. Back and forth. Grains bad grains good etc. Getting lost in all the DCM reports also that are still inconclusive. UHHH

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee and C4Cats,
It’s absolutely mind blowing how I’m just now noticing these selling ploys. Someone hired in their company to brainstorm words before each ingredient to send subliminal messages to our brains conjuring up images of superior nutrition if fed to our dogs. It’s the same with our food. I always wondered if I should buy “sweet” corn in the grocery store as opposed to “unsweet”. lol Yes, now I can’t “unsee” as you said Aimee. I did write an email to Stella n Chewy’s regarding that taurine statement and that I will no longer be purchasing .
Now still leaves me with a full bag and half of another with their grain free chicken kibble . Trouble is all three were doing very well on this as a base and again with home cooked when appropriate, some freeze dried toppings, boiled eggs in morning etc. It just dawned on me that the grain free came out due to deaths related to mold in grain products. So of course that made all us pet owners feel safe with NO grain in dog food. But now of course it’s back to adding grains because of the DCM controversy. I then look at all claiming they are done and going the way of PPP. So many ingredients listed that told me crap for our dogs’ for SO LONG that hard to get that out of my head. Tufts comes out with this statement regarding human grade food is no different then feed grad.
At the very top of their post Tufts discusses the pet food classification of “Human Grade“. Below is the full quote of this section, Tufts attempting to minimize the significance of human grade pet food.

“Human grade” is much more about the plant the food is processed in than where the food came from. For instance, chicken, whether for people or cats, comes from the same bird. It’s just that “human grade” chicken is processed in a plant or kitchen licensed to produce food for people, while chicken that gets put into pet food — which could include breast or thighs, but also nutrient-packed internal organs and the parts you pick off to make soup — goes to plants that manufacture pet food. All these ingredients work together to meet your cat’s nutrient needs. Just as important, they are pleasing to cats’ taste buds.
More to the point, products marketed as “human grade” are not necessarily higher quality nor better options in any other way. The Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) sets the standards for the levels of nutrients that should be in cat food, and that’s a separate issue from the origin of the food’s ingredients.
We should note that “human grade” food for cats tends to be relatively expensive compared to regular cat food. There’s no need to purchase it, either for your cat’s health or enjoyment of meals.”
But Thixton says this: Feed Grade. The FDA allows feed grade pet products (and feed livestock products) to utilize very inferior ingredients, in fact – some ingredients allowed in feed are illegal per federal law but still allowed by FDA. Evidence of this is FDA’s own words – in a response to our (Association for Truth in Pet Food) request of the Agency to stop allowing illegal ingredients in pet foods. The FDA stated: “we do not believe the the use of diseased animals or animals that died otherwise than by slaughter to make animal food poses a safety concern and we intend to continue to exercise enforcement discretion where appropriate.”

Per the FDA’s own disclosure, feed/feed grade pet foods are allowed to contain diseased animals or animals that died otherwise than by slaughter. All of which – by the way – is a violation of federal food safety laws (illegal, but allowed by all pet food regulatory authorities).

Human Grade. While feed grade pet foods are allowed to use diseased and non-slaughtered animal material, human grade pet foods are required to:
So do I feed human grade or unsee that feed grade can be diseased animals in my dogs’ food?
Also a question about Purina. Do ALL foods manufactured by Purina meet WSAVA standards. And if not why they make a food that they KNOW doesn’t hold the standards of WSAVA and could cause ill health to our pets? I think I mentioned that I”m a caregiver to my mom with Dementia. I’m getting really stressed overtime I look at a dog nutrition forum and read their strong opinions relating to what to feed and then I feel like I’m feeding all wrong even though my dogs’ are doing well with what I’ve been feeding. So should I ignore all that’s wrong with Stella n Chewy’s posts and continue with all the legumes and peas BUT added taurine or should I look for another? Thank you both. Just want to stop over thinking AND this research is causing me more stress.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Hi C4C,
I figured I’d start with the origins to determine quality. At least with their vitamin packs. So my reasoning was that Susan Thixton had written several times to Stella and Chewy’s asking where their ingredients are sourced. Shouldn’t be anything to hide. They claimed their recipes are USA manufactured. Deceptive if yes MADE here but ingredients source should be listed on their website. So it turns out that eventually they admitted to some vitamins/minerals are from China. They emailed me back stating that this was back in 2011 and they no longer source from China and then gave me all their ingredient sources. I was looking on their website for kibble with grain. So looking at their ingredient list and clicked on Taurine which was highlighted on their sight . So they wrote that they add Taurine since dogs’ cannot synthasize their own. So a company that doesn’t even know that generally dogs DO synthesize their own taurine if given the proper diet. Only cats’ need added Taurine. (Taurine is a sulfur-containing amino acid. Cats deficient in taurine will develop DCM. Nutritional research indicates that taurine is an essential amino acid for cats, but it is generally not considered an essential amino acid for dogs, because dogs are able to synthesize taurine from dietary cysteine and methionine. I say generally not required for dogs because Golden retrievers and American cocker spaniels can develop DCM secondary to taurine deficiency. However, taurine deficiency does not to appear to be the primary cause of the diet-related cardiomyopathy the FDA is investigating)
I mean at least explain that out of precaution we add Taurine . So cannot trust a company that doesn’t even know why they are adding taurine to their recipe. I mean am I wrong, or is what they wrote ignorant? Thank’s for responding and Happy New Year to you also.

[Patricia A]

Thank you for sharing your interactions with the company. I understand your lose of confidence when such a big discrepancy is not acknowledged by the company.
My three little dogs’ do well with Primal in certain proteins. I stay away from the higher in fat to protein ones since causes diarrhea in one. I just really wanted one other freeze dried for rotation with one just comprised of meat and organs vs. Primal with the added veggies.
I loves the ingredients in Small Batch and was on the Susan Thixton list of transparency if you’re familiar with her work.. However, just VERY nervous about the added garlic. If some of the reasoning for adding is builds up in coat for flea protection, then worried with my very small dogs will also build up to cause damage to red blood cells. Don’t want to take the chance.
Funny you mention Steve’s. Thixton has that one this year on her list also. So was looking into that company also for rotation List is a starter for me at least, although don’t NOT feed a brand necessary because it’s not recommended by her. However, when looking at reviews on this site DFA someone just recently wrote about contaminated food (bugs?) and very poor customer service. UHHH always something that turns me off. lol
Yes, this forum is not very active as it once was. If you look under my posts there is a lady AIMEE who has been VERY helpful and informative and is active on this forum . Maybe she will read and chime in here with her take on Vital Essentials. I’ve been waiting patiently for her to say “Patricia these are the two freeze dried foods to rotate with.” “Their customer service is excellent, they are transparent, their analysis lines up what’s on the bag and online for each recipe, they have the perfect nutritional levels with no risky or inferior ingredients AND it’s affordable.” lol Is that too much to ask??? All I get is which one is the lesser of two evils. lol
Have a Happy New Year.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Can you please share what led you to not trust feeding Vital Essentials freeze dried. I am on a rotation between them Primal and at times Small Batch. A little nervous feeding Small Batch consistently with the added garlic for my small dogs’.

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
I looked at bag I have for “All life stages” does disclose under their Nutrient profile the exception for feeding for growth of large breed 70lbs. or more. I did write to them regarding their statement under facts/questions on website of reasoning for not feeding but no reply.

I wrote to Small Batch, and although a very detailed quick response regarding safety and benefits of garlic added, albeit very far down on ingredient list, .I have a worry about feeding frequently in my rotation. I appreciate your inquiry and would love to hear their reply regarding nutritional analysis of their food. My three did well with their very small pucks broken up on top of kibble in their turkey protein/flavor. So wouldn’t be opposite to feeding at times. That is if discrepancy is cleared up by their reply.

Uhhh..so many brands and so many pet owners on so many forums with their reasoning of why one is crappy and one is superior. Just overwhelming . lol

• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

So I am understanding it right. Now I’m going to look at other brands websites under their formulas for “All Life Stages” and see only “Not for large breed puppies” is written or they put the “WHY” also.
So the company should state TOO MUCH calcium if they give the why.
But Stella’s went out of the way to put the “WHY” and the “WHY is the opposite .
Now in your calculations are dogs’ being fed their “all life stages”not getting ENOUGH calcium ? Or are levels correct for puppies small/medium and adults and someone screwed up in writing that and meant TOO much for the large breed puppies? Hope I’m making sense.

[Patricia A]

So they just emailed me with Hi Patricia,

The information on this bag shows that it was manufactured in November 2022, and does not expire until May 2024. This is still very new product.

Thank you,
I asked if it was the lot# that tells them when food was manufactured. They could of explained.

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
As I wrote to CFC. They emailed back requesting photo so just sent. I did notice on extreme bottom corner under the Stella & Chewy’s 2019 Manufactured by Stella & chewy’s and address there is black printed # 22051. So going back to email cause I don’t believe I got that in photo.
So first off am I correct in fact that the calcium/DMA for large breed puppies require LESS so All life stages is NOT appropriate to feed actually in ANY brand . Large breeds would be large breed puppy specific . Then by their own statements contradicts when advising that their their non puppy all life stage formulas would not contain ENOUGH levels Calcium/DMA.
So it should be a statement advising of the opposite actually? I don’t understand all the calculations Aimee. But their statement leads me to believe that my “adult” dogs are not getting ENOUGH calcium/DMA from their formula for All Life Stages. Since statement should of read “TOO MUCH calcium/DMA for growth of large breed puppies”.
I know nothing about large breed puppies but read that it’s incorrect to think they need MORE calcium/DMA for growth for many reasons listed.
So is their formula meeting requirements for calcium/dma for all life stages besides large breed? How are other brands different in these levels?
When I call I want to know what I”m talking about. lol

[Patricia A]

HI CFC,
That was very helpful. Stella and Chewy’s wanted pic of Lot# and Best Buy date . They will get get back to me. Just sent.

[Patricia A]

Hi CFC,
On back corner of bag it has Stella & Chewy’s 2019 . On front left corner it has LOT # and underneath Best USED BY JAN-04-2024.
Now is it possible that the front date is just when the bag was made? Does your kibble have the manufactured date as well as the BEST USE BY date?
I imagine if I call they will just say that they have special kibble bags that keeps the oil from going rancid and thus a longer stay fresh date?? UHHH
I’m about to give up on this brand between this and what Aimee is pointing out .

[Patricia A]

Hi CFC,
On back corner of bag it has Stella & Chewy’s 2019 . On front left corner it has LOT # and underneath Best USED BY JAN-04-2024.
Now is it possible that the front date is just when the bag was made? Does your kibble have the manufactured date as well as the BEST USE BY date?
I imagine if I call they will just say that they have special kibble bags that keeps the oil from going rancid and thus a longer stay fresh date?? UHHH
I’m about to give up on this brand between this and what Aimee is pointing out .

[Patricia A]

Read this 3x’s
“Things are more limited with our kibble, as you would need to stick with the puppy-specific kibble recipe (calcium and DHA levels aren’t enough for large breed puppies in non-puppy formulas)”. I get what you’re saying.
My understanding is that Large breed puppies need LESS calcium per calorie then puppies who grow to be small/medium adults. So their “all life stages” formula all contain too LITTLE calcium for large breeds so puppy formula has MORE so feed that??
So they’re saying their “all life stages” formulas contain LESS calcium and in actuality it should contain TOO MUCH calcium for large breed puppies.
So is this just written backwards or in your analysis of “all life stages” it actually falls short of calcium necessary for adults dogs ?
When I call how should I address this?

[Patricia A]

Just wanted to add that I look at Stella n Chewy’s website . States under frequently asked questions that their raw and kibble products have an expiration date of 14-18 months past the date of production on their bags.
So will be going back to my Pet Supply store and bringing back unopened I just purchased this week. I’m sure the last one I just threw out was probably outdated also. Didn’t feel like going through outside garbage.

[Patricia A]

Hi Crazy4cats,
Absolutely value Aimee’s opinions with all the backup information.
Yes, Nature’s Variety I believe is sold in my pet supply store. Going to see though if I can get a sample from company for the freeze dried. Or even pick up small back and start as a treat first.
Wondering why DFA says discontinued?Product May Have Been Discontinued
Unable to Locate Complete .
Thanks Crazy. Happy Holidays to you and fur babies.

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
On bottom of bag states Vital Essentials Turkey dinner patties Formula is formulated meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles for all life stages.
After getting no call back I called the Carnivore Meat Companyr. (Carnivore Meat Company is an award-winning manufacturer of premium frozen and freeze-dried raw pet food and treats. Located in Green Bay, Wisconsin, the company’s rapidly growing brands include: Vital Essentials®, VE RAW BAR™, Vital Cat®, and Nature’s Advantage) Just was the same recording with different number.
Well I HOPE dog food companies have software letting them know their brand was mentioned on social media forums for dog nutrition. Just so they know that there is pet owners like yourself and many others who are now VERY savvy to the tricks of the trade and forcing them to live up to their own hype .
Thank’s Aimee. For now I’ll give it a rest.

[Patricia A]

Aimee I have to admit my brain cells are trying hard to understand your calculations . You’re a wiz at this, however what I CAN take away from this is I was right in questioning their feeding guidelines at the very least.
I so wanted to trust this company since they enjoy the food as a topper. But as you said now my concern is the quality control also if they fall short on their own understanding of nutrients and calories in their food. I also don’t like that I called three times a few days apart only to get recorded message of how important us pet owners are to them and that they will call back ASAP. Never one call back after leaving messages.
This is what is on DFA under best freeze dried. Also why I chose in rotation .
Vital Essentials is one of only a few commercial diets that meets AAFCO nutrient profiles by conducting actual feeding trials on live animals. A real gem and a rare find. Enthusiastically recommended.
So even added on top of kibble you would not recommend at all?? What do you think of Small Batch. I was upset that they add garlic. I feel like your my personal dog nutritionalist here. lol Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions .

[Patricia A]

Ooops. this is their reply.
Good morning Patricia. Our customer service representative is working hard to respond to all inquiries, but we have had a high volume of messages recently. The feeding guidelines and kcal information on the packaging is correct. Raw pet food tends to be lower in calories due to the fresh ingredients in it, and is also more filling. If you are concerned about calorie intake, I recommend talking to your vet to figure out what would work best for you and your pup!
Seen by Vital Essentials at 9:25 AM
I don’t feel like I’m making up for their calories when I give less of the kibble and use this as a topper. ON the other hand, they are saying just the ONE is a full meal for all day.
I don’t care how nutritionally dense the food is. Don’t they still need the calories????

• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
Thank you for assuring me that I’m asking good questions and always understandable, researched replies.
I have a questions that I hope you can clear up. I’m getting really OCD about feeding and I do want to calm down about my perfectionism, which as Mike posted, will never be met in feeding “the perfect” food. Hence, I agree with him on some rotation.
So perfect diet or not here is my question. I think I wrote several times that I use kibble as a base. I like to give less and make up their caloric /nutrional needs with the freeze dried.
So I can handle rotation of two. This way I can keep track of brands and their proteins/flavors when rotating and making sure I’m not cleaning up any soft poo or hearing stomach grumbling. Easier when I just had my two. My Hannah passed at 17 1/2 few years back and was only eating kibble with home cooked. Especially toward the end she would ONLY eat home cooked. Dad passed, my mom living with us now and her little Chihuahua also. Luckily she gets along fine and no longer has pain from disc since losing much weight. My mom was filling her bowl with Pepperidge Farm gold fish instead of dog food. Uhhh So with long walks and proper diet she is like a new dog.
So I recently ordered Vital Essentials. Bag says 70kcal per mini disc. Feeding guidelines suggest just ONE MINI PATTIE A DAY for a 6lb. dog. My dogs are approx. 6lbs. Their caloric needs are over 200kcals for their energy level . How in the world would just one disc meet their caloric needs at just 70 kcals IF anyone fed as their daily diet????? I wrote then and this is their response. Can you please clarify. I also use Primal which is 3-4 suggests equate to an ounce which equals 113kcals. So sounds about right that suggestion is for 5-10lb dog they would require 5-9 for full meal. As I said, I only use as topper so only use like 1 1/2 with the kibble.
So my concern is I always make up their calories with the topper. I give less Kibble then suggested for full meal and then figured out approx. needed calories when topping with the freeze dried. I don’t go crazy because they do get divided boiled egg in morning and treat at night etc. But really???? 70kcals fora full meal all day???

• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee.
,”You are correct WSAVA does not approve foods so I’m unsure why you are asking if certain foods should be removed from the WSAVA recommended list since you seem to recognize that there is no such list. Perhaps you an clarify that point for me.”

You’re absolutely right. I got lost in conflicting info. Just refreshed myself on WSAVA “guidelines”.No “list” exists. I knew that . Uhhh Posting when full brain not engaged is never a good idea. lol Sorry about that.

One question. Why didn’t Europe have reports of DCM? I know that Europe nutrient Profiles must contain minimum amounts of nutrients based on requirement of low activity vs high activity dogs for each 1000kcals. In the US there is no distinction between activity levels.
Maybe this is why there was no surgence in Europe in dogs being fed grain free ????

[Patricia A]

Aimee I just don’t get it. Why doesn’t Nestlé Purina PetCare own brands such as Alpo? Shouldn’t they stand by the best nutrition across the board? I don’t think I like these ingredients to much.

Ingredients: Ground yellow corn, corn germ meal, beef and bone meal, soybean meal, beef fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols, pork and bone meal, egg and chicken flavor, natural flavor, corn gluten meal, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, minerals [zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, calcium iodate], sodium selenite, natural grill flavor, vitamins [vitamin E supplement, niacin (vitamin B-3), vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate (vitamin B-5), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B-6), vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B-1), vitamin D-3 supplement, riboflavin supplement (vitamin B-2), menadione sodium bisulfite complex (vitamin K), folic acid (vitamin B-9), biotin (vitamin B-7), ], dl-methionine, l-lysine monohydrochloride, l-tryptophan, red 40, yellow 5, calcium carbonate, blue 2, yellow 6, garlic oil

[Patricia A]

Regarding DCM and WSAVA. WSAVA does NOT approve any dog foods. They supply questions for the dog owner to ask the brand. Just don’t feel good about the BIG 5 companies are the ones sponsoring them.

Additionally, if these are in fact “recommendations” based on important criteria for pet foods, should not all of Hill’s canned dog products implicated in the vitamin D recalls come off the WSAVA-recommended list? If WSAVA takes the time to update its recommendation guidelines with the criteria I’ve suggested here, it should consider involving people who do not have any potential financial gain, either from pet food sales or academic research funding.

On a positive note, WSAVA is more transparent in that it does provide an easily accessible list of its industry partners and ranks them based on contributions; however, it does leave some people scratching their heads why Nestle Purina and Mars Petcare would contribute in multiple tiers, versus just the parent company.

[Patricia A]

Just curious why a company fails with answers to back up their claims on package.

Purina Pro Plan Avoids Questions

[Patricia A]

I believe most of the freeze dried are grain free. Go to BEST DOG FOODS on top of this site and then BEST FREEZE DRIED. Many have veggies included in ingredient list such as Primal. Some are strictly meat such as Vital Essentials. Some come in scoop form and others nuggets. Some proteins/flavors are higher in fat . I believe the 5* proteins/flavors for various companies are lower in fat.
Only one I know that is specially puppy is Stella Chewy’s. However guidelines for the rest are on the bag of approx. how much more you would have to feed a puppy for nutritional and calorie requirements specifically for large breed.
Exclusively fed freeze dried would be VERY expensive to feed large breed puppies. Maybe as a topper with kibble which meets requirements of large breed in grain free?
Hope this helps.

[Patricia A]

Aimee it really comes down to us pet owners to keep pet food manufactures honest. Trust was lost in 2007 recall of brands of cat and dog foods due to contamination with melamine causing so many deaths. How horrible to put down your pets food dish with his tail wagging and the food kills them? What awake up call .
Thousands are on websites now questioning ingredients, transparency etc. Forums like DFA and others will let manufactures know pet owners are now savvy and educated and will call them out and stop feeding when their answers to our questions appear uneducated or deceitful.
A neighbor feeds kibble n bits. Uhhh not the best choice of course. But I’m not going to PREACH and go on and on . I don’t want to be one of THOSE people lol. So when she’s walking her dog and I bump into her and chatting I sort of nudge topic to let’s say “Oh so hard to think of what’s for dinner today and too costly to eat out.” “But made a chicken casserole that even these three enjoyed.” Boiled chicken and string beans as topper to their kibble.” So not being obnoxious but just a little hint, hint. lol
Love you educating me further Aimee. Taking care of my mom who has dementia so try to make some time every few days to keep informed. Happy Holidays to you.

[Patricia A]

I always thought that as long as food is AAFCO approved I’m covered. Oh but the tricks the manufactures use which leads us into believing ingredient list is transparent is so deceiving for us pet owners and AAFCO allows.
If someone is concerned about preservatives in their pet food, manufactures don’t need to list is sourced from far away and was processed by the sourcing company using preservatives. So unless the food is 100% USA made, there are always somethings that don’t make it on the label.
Then there is the regulations on pet food labeling. Marketing tricks with words like organic when there are no guidelines on what constitutes organic food. Human grade can be suitable for human consumption that could expire and be spoiled meat.
I don’t know if this is correct but when you see salt on ingredient list it has to be less then 1%. So anything UNDER salt on label such as organic veggies of different types could just be a thimble full put in and they can still put on label as organic broccoli, organic carrots etc.
So with your diligence you have called out manufactures for not meeting AAFCO min as an example. So AAFCO is what people are used to seeing on label and they believe that’s ALL they need to know. AAFCO – is an important association of local, state, and federal officials. AAFCO creates model language for definitions, guidance, and best-practices related to the regulation of pet foods, but it doesn’t “regulate, test, approve or certify pet food.
Loli doesn’t have any more energy around the house that’s for sure. She was NEVER one of those small dogs who are hyper. lol However, she does make it all around the block and track lately. Maybe cooler weather? Less walks since at times too cold, windy or rainy since late fall? I’m just happy that ALL three can eat with their kibble and so far so good.
Happy Holidays Aimee.

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
I believe we two are the only ones who frequents forum anymore. Remember few years ago when very active? I for one appreciate feedback when it comes to questions on dog nutrition.
I’m afraid I don’t put much credence in AFFCO standards as much as I used to.
“Many holistic vets, pet owners and smaller manufacturers do not place great priority on AAFCO standards because their nutritional profiles are different from those established by the NRC (National Research Council) and do not reflect the newest research on the nutritional needs of pets.

Many pet owners and smaller pet product companies are dubious of AAFCO because it is partly made up of major manufacturers within the industry who have an incredibly large influence on how the regulations for their own industry are established, and in determining the feed ingredient definitions that allow by-products, 4-D meats (dead, diseased, decaying and disabled) and other non edible ingredients to be used in pet food.”

Just wondering if there have ever been studies over long period of time if even small amounts of garlic in food can have a potential to cause red blood cell destruction over time I’m sure answer is no. I mean garlic is added in the belief it is a natural flea/tick repellant. “garlic in your dog builds up over the course of a few weeks and seeps into the oil of his coat)” So THAT is what concerns me of the “build up”. Is there a dog food around for decades which used garlic with no problems. Otherwise I would use Small Batch in rotation as topper.

What dog breed do you have Aimee? What do you feed? Do you switch around and notice any differences in dogs well let’s say poo, coat, energy or blood work/health?

I could attest that since they have been on the Vital Essentials for few weeks now, my Loli has a lot more energy. Not in imagination. Walk the track she would start lagging and now her little legs go like crazy. I have a bag of Primal Turkey/sardine freeze dried. So after done with the Vital Essentials will start again with the Primal and be aware if switch truly did make a difference.

[Patricia A]

Forgot to add about my eight year old Loli. I consider her a rescue in that conditions she came from. DNA showed VERY inbred. She always had a popcorn smell. Didn’t associate with yeast. Little pimples under armpits. First two years she was eating Fromm. I made sure that after baths she was dried thoroughly especially under pits . She’s a long hair. Vet said change diet and see if helps. No yeasty ears and ;no infection.
I switched to Stella Chewy’s and started freeze dried topper. No longer that popcorn smell. So grew out of immune response or change of diet worked.

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