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Nadia Primal response to question regarding Kkals per nugget…
Hi, Patricia. When you rehydrate our Freeze-Dried nuggets, they have the same nutritional composition as our Frozen nuggets. Our frozen nuggets are approximately 1 oz each, so one frozen or one rehydrated freeze-dried nugget will have the same data. The rabbit nuggets are 39 calories/oz and the venison nuggets are 42 calories/oz. I hope this helps!
I still haven’t heard back from the email I sent advisor team regarding stellar. lamb rated at 2.5 and duck 4. So for now I’ll stick with the 5* with the exception of the Tantalizing turkey they love. I’ll just break a piece off for Tia now that I know it’s higher calories/fat. As a whole Primal is lower in k kals with the same protien/flavor then Stella’s. So new list of k kals per patty/nugget below. I’m also putting up puppy chicken/salmon which is good for all life stages and rated a 5*. They are just smaller so hence the lower calorie count. So I wrote this down to and bring with me when it’s time to stock up on food for my easy to gain weight Tia. This way I can break off a little for Tia when it’s a 5* but higher in calories.
Phew…glad that’s done. lol
PRIMAL PER NUGGETTURKEY/SARDINE 38 kcal
RABBIT 39
VENISON 42
PORK 44.5
DUCK 52STELLAS PER PATTIE
CHICKEN 50 Kcal
VENISON BLEND 53
RABBIT 53
TURKEY 58
PUPPY CHICKEN/SALMON 32 smaller pattie sizeMe too Nadia. Was wondering why the weight gain in my one since giving the turkey. Also they go nuts when I give that flavor so it should have clued me in. lol .. But I also read from research many times it’s the carbs in food that causes weight gain and not the fat. That the fat is good for dogs as long as your dog isn’t prone to pancreatitis from TOO much every day. So with that understanding as a whole the Stella’s have low carbs as well as Primal I rotate with.
Guess I’ll rotate with the rabbit chicken and venison blend and break in half the turkey and see what happens with the weight after cutting back.. My suspicion about the Tantalizing Turkey started when I looked at the back of the Stella’s bag and it said give 2 for the lbs when the other proteins/flavors i use with the 5* says 2 1/2 for same lbs. I always give less then the feeding guide anyway since they also get a little kibble with it when not feeding home cooked when appropriate. But at least it tells me that the flavor/protein is higher in calories.Pugmomsan I posted my question under raw but got no replies. so below is my question again . Maybe you or someone else on forum has an answer. I try to stick to the lower fat 5* proteins/flavors.
I feed Stella’s and Primal as a topper. I would like to know why their Tantalizing Turkey Dinner Patties Freeze-Dried is rated 5 stars by the advisor and their Stella & Chewy’s Tantalizing Turkey meal mixers Freeze-Dried is only 2.5 stars. I believe the recipe/ingredients are exactly the same with only the presentation (nuggets vs patty) being the difference.
Did the advisor make an error in his ratings or am I missing something here?Stella and Chewy’s has grain inclusive Beef. https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/stellas-essentials-wholesome-grains/beef-and-ancient-grains-recipe
Product Benefits
#1 ingredient grass-fed beef
Wholesome grains including brown rice, pearled barley, oatmeal, quinoa and millet
Pea-free, lentil-free, potato-free & poultry-free
Made in the USA with no ingredients from China
Rich in Omegas for healthy skin & coat
Leading levels of glucosamine & chondroitin to help maintain hip & joint function
High quality proteins for lean muscle mass
No corn, wheat or soy protein
No by-product meal
Guaranteed taurine levels
Complete & balanced for all life stages except large breed puppiesNever The Other Stuff!
Ingredients
Beef, lamb meal, pearled barley, oatmeal, brown rice, pork meal, beef fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural vegetable flavor, beef liver, millet, quinoa, flaxseed, calcium carbonate, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, suncured alfalfa meal, salmon oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), inulin (from chicory root), pumpkin, blueberries, taurine, tocopherols (preservative), thyme, sage, dried kelp, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, sodium selenite, calcium iodate, vitamin E supplement, thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, rosemary extract.Product Analysis:
Guaranteed Analysis:Aimee I agree that I didn’t get very technical with the questions for the vet. I was just trying to point out that some owners think the brands sold at the vets MUST be superior in some way since of course vets know what food is the best. I thought this also at one time. And MOST of the time if asked what should I feed my “healthy” dog your vet will I believe 9 times out of 10 suggest the ones in their practice. Why is that when again 9 times out of 10 the vet cannot even tell you the ingredients listed on the labels they sell?
Honestly, so many of these companies are so gimmicky and people fall for it. Like the dog food manufactorers who sell specific kibble just for different breeds. Like a Chihuahua on the bag and then for your Shitzu, poodle, yorkie etc. are specifically made for just for that breed.Really they want us to believe that a diet for a Yorkie would be different then a Chihuahua. People are gullible.
Here are the four ingredient labels I asked the vets to rank. Can you guess which one is the prescription diet?
Also regarding prescription diets for dogs interesting article below.
Food #1
dog food ingredient
Food #2
Prescription Diet Dog Food
Food #3
prescription diet dog food 3
Food #4
Prescription Diet Dog Food
The Answer: Prescription Diets Revealed
Now, if there’s one thing I can say about my veterinary friends, it’s that they don’t follow direction very well! Only one of the vets actually ranked all of the foods as asked. But the rest had some very interesting things to say about the prescription diet.So to start, here are the rankings in order from best to worst from Dr Marty Goldstein, author of The Nature of Animal Healing:
Food #2 ranked first because it contains all whole foods
Food #4 ranked second because it contains meal but otherwise contains whole foods
Food #1 ranked third, thanks to the by-product rice, by-product meal and overall low quality ingredients
Food #3 ranked last, based on the use of corn for its first ingredient, followed by by-product meal.
And if you haven’t guessed already, the prescription diet in that list is Food #3.
Want to hear what some of the other vets had to say about the prescription diet?
Dr Jodie Gruenstern: This food was the lowest quality in the list. It contains GMO corn, soy (lots of it!), which is a common allergen, synthetic vitamins/minerals, shavings (if you didn’t know, the ingredient cellulose is literally sawdust), natural flavors, which usually mean MSG.
Dr Jean Dodds: Poor quality food: the first ingredients are corn, which is often GMO, and chicken by-product meal rather than whole chicken. Flax and soy are phytoestrogens.
Dr Judy Morgan: This is a Pet Store Food. Corn is the first ingredient, no muscle meat used, only by-product meal, synthetic vitamin/mineral supplement, corn and soybean are GMO, waste fillers are abundant. Overpriced in my opinion, considering the poor quality, cheap ingredients used).
Dr Dee Blanco: This one starts with corn to increase inflammation, then adds lighter fluid to it with soybean products and poor quality protein. Then it tries to make up for the poor quality foundational ingredients by adding synthetic supplements of the poorest quality, such as calcium carbonate, folic acid, ‘generic Vit E supplement’, etc. Looks like they added l-tryptophan to calm the nervous system down after putting the body into overdrive inflammation. Natural flavors?? Could be an entire cadre of carcinogens, allergens and toxins. Argh!
Dr Peter Dobias: The worst recipe – first ingredient is corn, then by-product, then flavors, wood chips. It may not be supermarket food but a veterinary diet right?!
So, as you can see, our vets didn’t exactly think the ingredients in the prescription diet were high quality. In fact, they thought many of them would be harmful.
So why exactly do we trust our vets to prescribe diets when this is the best they can offer?
And, more importantly, why are vets gullible enough to think these foods can do anything to change chronic health issues in dogs, such as allergies, kidney disease, or in the case of this particular food, joint disease?
If we really want to look at the quality of these diets, I think the first place to start is who’s making them?
The Apple Doesn’t Fall Far From The Tree
The major players in the prescription diet category are the major players in the regular pet food category:Hill’s Science Diet
Purina
Royal Canin
Iams
These companies are hardly renowned for quality ingredients. In fact, most veterinary diets are manufactured by companies that predominantly manufacture lower quality grocery store foods. The same company that makes lower quality foods like Alpo and Beneful is also making prescription diets. How much better do you think the veterinary food would be?Let’s compare two Hill’s foods: a regular food (Natural Chicken & Brown Rice Recipe Adult) and a prescription food (j/d Canine Joint Care).
The regular pet store brand:
Hills Ideal Balance
And the prescription food:Hills JD
Now, a 30lb bag of the regular food is $47.99 at Petsmart. The prescription diet dog food can also be purchased at Petsmart for $84.95 for a 27.5lb bag. It’s twice as expensive!Now, you might be thinking this is because the prescription diet was formulated and tested with a specific condition in mind.
This is completely false.
While an over-the-counter food with a health claim (such as controls weight) is subject to FDA regulations and enforcement, the FDA practices “enforcement discretion” when it comes to veterinary diets.
Put another way, this means the FDA has not reviewed or verified the health claims on any veterinary diet.
Did you catch that? There are very few ingredients in veterinary diets that aren’t also in other regular diets. In the example above, I’d say the pet store brand is a better quality food, wouldn’t you? The prescription diet contains by-product meal (which comes straight from the rendering plant), lots of soybean and corn products (a cheap replacement for animal protein) while the regular food contains more expensive, higher quality ingredients.
Apart from fish oil, what food ingredients exactly would help dogs with joint pain? As Dr Dee Blanco stated, this food would actually cause inflammation.
And fish oil is a terrible addition to pet foods. It’s much too fragile to be added to processed foods and as soon as the bag is opened, it will oxidate and cause inflammation in your dog.
Ironic isn’t it, when the food is supposed to be treating inflammation in the first place?
[Related: We’ve got 5 reasons you should dump fish oil. Click here.]
Consider The Source
Those two diets are made in the exact same plant. The manufacturer uses the same suppliers.Doesn’t it stand to reason that the quality of ingredients will be the same?
I challenge the pet food industry to prove that chicken by-product meal, soybeans, brewers rice and powdered cellulose have been extensively researched and proven better than the higher quality foods used in most regular pet foods.
So if your vet ever says your dog needs to be eating a prescription diet, ask him to review the ingredient list. Then ask him for hard evidence that the foods in the prescription diet are any better than those in regular diets.
I think we know what the answer will be.
And if you’re one of the smart 60%, then I know you already know the answer!
It’s nothing but Bull$hit.
Let’s say you made an appointment with your vet strictly for a consultation on diet for your dog. Then ask that first off I would like you to tell me what are the necessary vitamins/minerals and percentage that needs to be in the food to keep my dog healthy. Also if I had a large breed puppy how would those percentages change if at all. How many more calories does he need when feeding then a small breed puppy? What should I look for as the first through 5th ingredient on the dog food label that should point me to the best food? What should I be on the alert for that should NOT be on their ingredient label that would suggest a low quality food? You know what the vet would say to these questions? You think any vet not trained strictly in animal nutrition would know these answers. I think not.
Take it a step further and bring in a dog food he suggests such as royal Canon, science diet etc and cut out the name and show him only the ingredient label.Also take in let’s say freeze dried also and some other brands with only the label.So Royal Canin adult dog foods first few ingredients are:
Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, oat groats, wheat, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, natural flavors, dried plain beet pulp, fish oil, calcium carbonate, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, salt, etc.And here’s Science Diet recipe (website states vet recommended)
Chicken, whole grain wheat, cracked pearled barley, whole grain sorghum, whole grain corn, corn gluten meal, chicken meal, pork fat, chicken liver flavor, dried beet pulp, soybean oil,Now I’m not trying to plug a dog food. I get my starting point from Dr. Mike and go from there. But let’s take Bixbi Rawbble whose first ingredients are this: Salmon, whitefish, chicken and ground bone, pumpkin etc.
Grain inclusive Stellas ingrediens: Chicken, chicken meal pearled barley,oatmeal, chicken fat, brown rice etc.
Primal ingredients: Turkey, turkey necks, whole sardines, turkey hearts or turkey gizzards, turkey livers, organic collard greens, organic squash, organic cranberries, organic blueberries, organic pumpkin seeds, clery, sunflower seeds etc.
So does anyone think he would know which one was Royal Canin just by looking at the label. Would he pick Royal Canin or Science Diet as being what he feels the highest quality after seeing the first few ingredients of the others? Unless I’m WAY off on what I understand to be ingredients to look for on a dog food label for the best nutrition for my dogs, then I would HOPE his pick would be the others over Royal Canin and Science diet which vets push in their practice.
What I’m attempting to put across here is that the MAJORITY of vets who sell Prescription diets as in Science Diet, Royal Canin etc at their practices and suggest that food have no idea what is even in the ingredients and wouldn’t recognize which brand are those and which are others by just looking at the ingredients. They have salesmen from these companies and correct me if I’m wrong please and get kickback each time a bag is sold.Alice. I use kibble as a base also and top it with Stella’s freeze dried or Primal. I have Chihuahuas and they never had hard poops using these freeze dried brands. Maybe you can try these for your Poms and see if these agree with them . However, it seems there is a plus to harder stools as article below:
Clean anal sacs – Diets that have natural sources of bone make the poops firmer which requires your pet to strain a bit harder to defecate. This is normal and even beneficial, as the harder stools help the dog express its anal glands, keeping it clean and reducing the likelihood of infection. If you notice your pet straining for too long, or they appear constipated, you may have to rethink the ratios of your raw ingredients. Furchild takes out all the guesswork because we have done the necessary research and all of our Meals for Dogs and Cats have been formulated by raw pet food experts.
Less GasAC my vet says every three years for rabies vaccination. After many bad bad side effects from the annual vaccinations I forgo ALL vaccinations besides the three year rabies shot, for my dogs. They had all their puppy shots and boosters at a year. After that titers shows immunity. My Doxie lived to over 17 as well as my Hannah.
Mary Lynn are you sure that the chicken is the problem? When you eliminate all chicken for a week or more does he stomp the paw chewing? I know it sounds like a simple solution but sometimes even chemicals such as rug cleaners could cause irritation and allergies. Don’t know if you’re interested in grain inclusive. Really can’t find any gran free that doesn’t include some form of peas or legumes. Below is Stella and Chewy’s grain inclusive with just beef and lamb meal .
Ingredients
Beef, lamb meal, pearled barley, oatmeal, brown rice, pork meal, beef fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural vegetable flavor, beef liver, millet, quinoa, flaxseed, calcium carbonate, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, suncured alfalfa meal, salmon oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), inulin (from chicory root), pumpkin, blueberries, taurine, tocopherols (preservative), thyme, sage, dried kelp, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, sodium selenite, calcium iodate, vitamin E supplement, thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, rosemary extract.
#1 ingredient grass-fed beef
Wholesome grains including brown rice, pearled barley, oatmeal, quinoa and millet
Pea-free, lentil-free, potato-free & poultry-free
Made in the USA with no ingredients from China
Rich in Omegas for healthy skin & coat
Leading levels of glucosamine & chondroitin to help maintain hip & joint function
High quality proteins for lean muscle mass
No corn, wheat or soy protein
No by-product meal
Guaranteed taurine levels
Complete & balanced for all life stages except large breed puppiesCandice Stella and Chewy’s just came out with a grain inclusive food that is all life stages. Might possibly add them to your list. My dogs are doing well with their kibble as a base and freeze dried topper.
#1 ingredient cage-free chicken
Wholesome grains including brown rice, pearled barley, oatmeal, quinoa and millet
Pea-free, lentil-free & potato-free
Made in the USA with no ingredients from China
Rich in Omegas for healthy skin & coat
Leading levels of glucosamine & chondroitin to help maintain hip & joint function
High quality proteins for lean muscle mass
No corn, wheat or soy protein
No by-product meal
Guaranteed taurine levels
Complete & balanced diet for all life stages except large breed puppiesMelissa I’m praying for you and CJ. You’re truly doing everything you can for him and most people wouldn’t because of the time, exhaustion of taking care of a dog that has these health problems and the expense. Thank goodness he ended up with you. My mom had a little Yorkie who had three owners before she got him. She would have tremors/seizures, never ate good and after numerous tests vets never did give reason or diagnosis. So I always remind her Maggie ended up with her to give her the best life possible.
I read that raw helped with the IBD. I guess because it wouldn’t have ANYTHING in it that the dog could be sensitive too since it’s just natural and not hidden chemicals or things which irritate stomach. I wish that was the answer for CJ since that would be easy.
TRY not to stress because I KNOW dogs feels this. Positive thinking, a lot of petting and if you’re able walks I read is very good for people even with IBD. also below will help a little.
https://kohapet.com/the-best-food-for-dogs-with-ibd
hydrated DIET
https://www.chewy.com/royal-canin-veterinary-diet/dp/33949?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=f&utm_content=Royal%20Canin%20Veterinary%20Diet&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrM2GlK6Z5AIVBv_jBx2M6gd6EAQYASABEgK74_D_BwEMelissa I’m confused with your vet after all the testing and specifically a biopsy that he can’t give a definitive diagnosis of IBD? Ask for a copy of the test results also. Did he mention CJ needing to go on any meds such as steroids? Which food did the vet suggest Melissa?
Before you switch the food he suggests, try one more time of the just WHITE meat boiled chicken and white rice. NO VEGGIES at all just a few days and see how he does. I don’t believe in prescription diets myself for reasons here: https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/worlds-biggest-dog-food-scam/
I’m curious of which food he will suggest now. Please keep me updated.
Once IBD has been diagnosed, Wakshlag favors gradually switching a dog’s diet, if the main proteins have been common ones such as beef, chicken or lamb. The dog would be then fed a novel protein or hydrolyzed diet.
Yogurt is high in calcium and protein. It also can act as a probiotic, which can be good for the digestive system. If you are going to feed your dog yogurt, it should be plain and free of any added sweeteners, both natural and artificial.Diet vs. Medicine
IBD cannot be cured and is often treated with antibiotics or other medicines designed to stop the gastrointestinal immune system from overproducing antigens. Most vets, however, prefer to manage the condition through diet and may prescribe a commercially made food or give you recipes to home-cook your dog’s food. Each dog is different and some will require a specific diet with only a few ingredients. Consult your vet before feeding your dog any homemade meals designed to manage his IBD.
A Proper Balance
Cooked meals for dogs suffering from IBD need to contain a good mix of proteins, fats and fiber. Foods rich in omega-3 fatty acids, such as fish and flaxseed oil, may help decrease intestinal inflammation and thus ease symptoms. Fresh meat or dairy protein sources, such as cheese, rabbit, venison and duck contain proteins that are broken down into more digestible nutrients.
Fiber and Fat
While some dogs with IBD do better when they eat more fiber, others do better when fiber is reduced. Vets often recommend fiber supplementation when IBD affects the colon, as fiber improves stool consistency and reduces the growth of harmful bacteria in the colon. Typically, high fiber foods, such as vegetables, are lower in fat. While fiber can trigger more bowel movements, the lower fat content from higher fiber diets often reduces diarrhea in dogs with IBD.
No People Treats
An important part of treatment for your dog’s IBD is keeping her away from people food. That means no table scraps, no bites of your sandwich and no feeding her bits of food that happen to fall on the floor. Also, avoid giving her most commercial dog treats, such as biscuits, which can be full of fillers and ingredients that will aggravate her stomach. Natural chew toys, or rawhides, also are out, as she likely will swallow pieces that flake off while she chews.
One more thing I forgot Melissa. When you were giving the boiled chicken BREASTS ( my dogs get diahhreah from dark meat chicken) did you ONLY give the chicken/rice and not mix it with any other food or treat for the week?? A very long shot but if you didn’t it’s worth a try. I also give some PLAIN oatmeal at times. Easy I believe on the stomach, boiled egg even. I had gastritis for two weeks from a combination of things I ate that I shouldn’t (chocolate, mustard, sauce and throw in stress from taking care of elderly parents and a 17 year old dog so I can imagine what your poor baby is going through.
Emma I went through the same thing with my one Chihuahua picky eater. Was going crazy switching up food all the time which she would eat for a day enthusiastically and walk away from the bowl the next. As long as she is healthy and no reason to be turning down her food then stick with one and stay with it.
I use Stella’s kibble also as a base. I SLOWLY incorporated the different flavors/proteins of the freeze dried as a topper. I always hydrate and then put the kibble on the side. I also use Primal in turkey/sardine and duck.
After taking back or dumping all the food she would eat for a day or two and then turn her nose up I said that’s it! I gave her the above starting with the Chicken Stella’s freeze dried and kibble and took the bowl away when she walked away. Offered again a little later and then had to throw out. Well after she realized eat it and I’m not offering anything else she eventually did . Now she loves the rotation of the Stella’s and Primal and looks forward to meal time and licks the bowl.
They also get home cooked when appropriate . But even after eating the home cooked she still will eat the freeze dried and kibble the next day .
I believe when she was picky I was not helping by changing the food all the time and then maybe stomach upset from the change and hence not eating it the next day. So stick with one and then SLOWLY incorporate the different flavors/protiens if you’re giving the Stella’s.
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