[wallyworld]

After switching to Zignature dog food I thought I’d found the end to my dogs digestion problems. No more issues except for the frequent larger poops which I assume is credited t the higher fiber content. I then fed my doodle treats and we realized he is probably intolerant to potatoes, he then had another diarrhea and throw up episode. He was also having urinary issues. So off to the vet we went. Vet said the tests came back showing WAY too much protein in his diet. She said I was doing more harm than good. She said high calories and protein will cause issues. And denoted my argument about calcium levels. I debated with her back and forth on food and nutrition issues. She said I could rely on what I read online or go by a vet’s advice. Our vet has always been kind and honest about everything else. But she stood by Science Diet. She said she had visited many pet food manufacturers. She admitted the ingredients aren’t considered the best, but their research was top notch. She also has raised all 4 Mastiffs on Science Diet large breed puppy without issues. We debated for quite awhile on this. There are no other vets in my area that DON’T push SD so I’m not sure what my options are. If I go against the vets advice than any problems will be on me. I don’t know what to do. I can’t fight with my vet, I want my pup to be well taken care of. Any advice on how to deal with this situation? How do you tell the trained professional you don’t want to do what they say? Especially when the other vets you can go to would say the same? Ahhhhh help!

[GSDsForever]

Suresh,

The highest quality dog foods and best companies take great care not to include those nasty ingredients. The key is finding a company/brand you believe in and can trust.

Looking at a company’s history, verifying the quality of main ingredients/sourcing on the the label, quality control checks, etc. will help reassure you about the food you select. If they aren’t forthcoming with answers and sympathetic, eager to help (although with the really small companies this can take time to get back to you with answers), or are evasive & vague or deceptive, or you don’t like the answers, walk away & find another brand.

Re vegetarian diets, if they are *vegetarian* as opposed to vegan, it is possible for them to be every bit as high quality, digestible, nutrient rich and health promoting as meat based. Organic free range natural vegetarian fed eggs, organic yogurt with live cultures, cottage cheese are all very good primary protein sources for dogs. You can do this with homemade. I’ve not been very impressed with commercially prepared, generally vegan (not merely vegetarian), kibbles and canned foods and I am pretty familiar with the options out there. Other new ones are insanely expensive. So while it is theoretically possible to make a very good vegetarian commercial kibble, it doesn’t seem to be readily available.

Not vegetarian, but more acceptable to many vegetarians, in that it is not cruelly factory farmed, fed unnatural weird things, and one of the least contaminated flesh foods out there is sardines. All are wild, live near the bottom of the food chain and so are not contaminated like other larger & longer lived predator fish, super high Omega 3 brain food also great for skin & coat, perfectly balanced calcium-phosphorous & soft easily digestible bones. Sardines are probably one of the very best non-vegetarian foods a dog could eat, and, to my mind, waaaay superior to the more popular-with-humans chicken based food.

Vegan is doable in dogs but riskier and harder, needs a good supplement including things like B12, l-carnitine, taurine, Omega 3. The easy part is supplying the amino acids through an array of foods, as the body does not distinguish between the same amino acid from one food versus another. In terms of nutrients (not natural preferences or digestive system), dogs are more omnivorous vs obligate carnivores, cats. The hard part is that many plant foods are not easily digested by dogs, whose systems are not designed for them. Many beans and whole grains (non whole grains, like white rice, are easily digested but high sugar) are next to impossible for dogs to digest, no matter how well cooked & prepared. Some breeds, like GSDs, are even less capable as a group of digesting than other breeds. Unlike whole soybeans, tofu IS very digestible; many dogs like it; it’s very versatile in how it can be prepared; and it offers various health benefits. It is healing to the stomach lining, for example. On the other hand, a prominent very balanced study of vegetarian fed pets showed that pets fed vegetarian diets without soy had much better health and longevity. From personal experience and knowledge of dogs eating vegetarian diets, lentils and black eyed peas seem to be more easily digested. It can be hard to supply enough calories and avoid too much fiber. Dogs can consume up to 50% fat in their diets in good health though, and vegetarian fats like organic virgin coconut oil are good for them & easily digested. Vegetarian diets, in humans and dogs, tend to be excessively high in Omega 6 fats which are pro-inflammatory and deficient in Omega 3.

Certain breeds like boxers and dobermans are at much greater health risk on a vegetarian or vegan diet, due to high breed susceptibility to deadly cardiomyopathy.

[GSDsForever]

Hey thanks HoundDogMom & InkedMarie.

InkedMarie, thank you for your work on that list & sharing it with others!

I never knew such a list was anywhere to be found when I had to search on my own for lowest glycemic foods (plus in my case, ~35-45% protein foods, moderate to high fat w/ low carb AND chicken-free). This was about 1 1/2 yrs ago, and I felt like I had very few choices and they were hard to track down. Potatoes were a big issue.

I’m still not sure how I feel about tapioca, which caused me anxiety looking at foods, because I’ve read conflicting things. (The “jury’s still out” in my own head, lol.) Lentils & such were easier for me to grasp as being low glycemic (as in Innova Prime & Horizon Pulsar), have added health protective effects (like anti-cancer), and I knew from homemade feeding experimenting that my dog digests them well. Any of the starchy carbs, even sweet potatoes, I don’t want to see make up a big part of the ingredients.

I liked Natura’s product line before, but I really hate Proctor & Gamble and it was killing me to purchase Evo or Innova Prime, both on ethical/moral grounds (unrelated to the food) and because I don’t trust their commitment to quality standards in the best interest of our dogs. Other brands manufactured by Diamond, like Solid Gold, I felt unsafe using. Nature’s Variety I felt so so about buying, in terms of the ingredients & pricing — though I liked the company better. Anyway, some brands here I knew about, but others like Darford Zero and DNA I’d never seen or heard of before this site. So I’m sure your list will help people a lot as a resource.

Oh, my Stella & Chewy’s (Duck Duck Goose) does not include any grains or starchy veggies of any kind. So it could go on the list as well. Love that brand. I *think* that may be true for all the freeze dried medallion formulas. Seeing Honest Kitchen’s Zeal on the list reminded me. (My dog far prefers S&C to HK, and I like S&C’s ingredients & use of organic items better).

[crazy4cats]

Hi All-
I was the one who recommended using vise grips a while back. I have two 80 lb. lab mix puppies who are big time gulpers. They are coming up on two years old in July so they are improving a little bit. When we first got them they not only chewed every thing in sight they also swallowed it. Actually there was little chewing, just swallowing. One of them has actually pooped out three or four socks. They can’t really have any toys or dog beds for fear they might swallow and get an obstruction. Same thing with chewy treats such as bully sticks. So, anyway, I read somewhere about using vise grips with chew treats in order to stop dogs from swallowing their treats whole before they chew them up. And I have to tell you, they work great. We have been using them with mostly bully sticks for about a year and no broken teeth and no bully stick obstruction. We just take them away from them when it gets down to the nub and then give them that last little piece. Believe me they want it too! You would think we never feed them when it comes to food and snacks. 🙂

[wantthebest4myk9]

I am interested in finding out about Sojos. If anyone out there has used their Original Dog Pre-Mix or Grain-Free, would like to know how your pet responded. I am determined to get my new rescue doggie off kibble with its nuked-nutrients, and prepare his food as much as I can…but have also read that vets are seeing a lot of dogs totally screwed-up by homemade diets that don’t incorporate proper nutrients and ratios for dogs (in other words, you can’t just plop your dinner down on your dog’s plate without knowledge of ratios of protein-fats-carbs, and even THOSE are debatable). On the other hand, there was a recent internet article about a 22-year old dog in the UK who had NEVER eaten dog food in his life! Just whatever the family was eating (I’m thinking that’s one happy dog! Kind of a dog’s favorite dream, don’t you think? Then yet another blob of dried kibble in the dish to choke on). Apparently his favorite dish is Chili!! So I am researching the pre-mixes — some are incredibly expensive, when you factor-in buying good-quality meat and veggies…Am reading Martin Zucker’s excellent book, “The Veterinarian’s Guide to NATURAL REMEDIES for Dogs” with detailed interviews from top holistic vets (published in 1999). There are a lot of great homemade food ideas, and most suggest adding a multivitamin and fresh oil, etc. I also just got Dr. Khalsa’s “NATURAL DOG/A Holistic Guide for Healthier Dogs” with tons of recipes to slog through. In the meantime, I am feeding my baby HALO (never been recalled) SMALL BREED kibble which he loves (new flavor has Pheasant, Duck and Rabbit — long time before he develops sensitivities to those!), and topping it with BLUE Stews = anything as far away from chicken or beef as I can. When I first adopted him, I brought home the Premium organic food the shelter was feeding, for a smooth transition, but it was chicken-based so I was happy to find HALO.

[NetG]

Thanks for the info, I wasn’t planning on going with Diamond since I’m such a worry wart and they had the recent history. I was thinking of doing that with whatever I did get as a precaution but I’ll forgo that idea and just stick with companies with better track records.

Great tip on hand washing! I work in healthcare and hand washing has become second nature to me (more like first nature) even when it involves my pups 😉 Growing up in the country I was always amazed at what they would ingest and how their immune system protects them from most of it. I know exposure to naturally occurring “things” found in the wild are unavoidable and, like us, somewhat of a necessity to keep the immune system strong, but of course we’re discussing unnatural/excessive exposure.

I began to look into a better diet for myself and then I thought considering all the crude in OUR food I dreaded what poor quality mass produced dog food may be. Wow was that fear validated, talk about an eye opener! Another idea I got from the web here regarding affordability and better dog food is asking the butcher shops about getting regular fresh leftovers to provide a more natural diet, that IS my goal if possible. While that may or may not work out, as I’m not the only dog lover in my area, until then I will have to rely on commercial dog food. What I WAS (emphasis on the past tense) feeding them only got a one star rating on this site and I just about pulled my hair out reading that! I’m really this site is so well organized as it makes researching dog foods SO fast and easy. I will dig deeper and find a highly rated one I can afford with a good track record.

I’m of the opinion now that if it’s at wally world it’s not a good dog food, I’m sure there are a couple exceptions but oh well. Luckily when I did a run by of the feed store in my area I saw that they sell a few of the foods that are rated here at 4 and 5 stars. I probably feed myself “3 star” human food now and I’m not going below 4 stars for my babies 😉

THANKS AGAIN!

[aimee]

Hi Alshasta,

The effect of food components on the pH of the urine can be complex. The sulfur amino acids cysteine and methionine are acidifying and I believe they are found more often in animal based proteins vs. plant protein which is why “meat” is considered acidifying. I’ve also read that corn protein is relatively higher in sulfur AA. However, sulfur AA are only one contribution to the resulting urine pH. Other players are calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium which are alkalinizing and phosphorus and chloride that are acidifying.

You can call the companies of the food you are interested in and ask what the average pH is of the urine of dogs on their diet. But many companies don’t track health parameters of the foods they produce. You can also predict pH based on the amounts of the previous mentioned components ( there are equations to do this). But the best information will be gotten from your own dog by measuring urine pH over various times of day while on a particular diet.

Increasing water intake to decrease urine concentration can also help decrease crystal formation. I’ve read that Apple Cider Vinegar increases urine pH because it has an “alkaline ash”. I don’t think I’d use Vit. C. I know it was tested in cats and it didn’t have an effect on urine pH but I don’t know what dose was tested.

[LeahT]

I had looked at The Honest Kitchen, but that was another one that used rosemary as a natural preservative. There might not be anything behind the connection with rosemary and seizures, but I would like to try finding something without rosemary for now.

I will definitely check out those other sites though. Thank you!

I have been reading about Darwin’s raw, and those don’t seem to have rosemary. They are also running an introductory offer for 10 pounds for $14.95, so I thought I would try that with her. She has become a bit of a picky eater since our lab passed away, so I want to try finding a smaller amount before investing $90 in something she won’t eat.

The problem is though that I live in the middle of nowhere in Kentucky, so there aren’t all that many natural dog food options offered around here. Even Feeder’s Supply, Pet Smart, etc. has a limited selection and most of that is Blue Buffalo. Chances are we will have to order whatever we feed her online.

With the cost of any store bought raw I’m still hoping to maybe feed her half raw/dehydrated and half dry. Hopefully I can narrow down the dry foods I am considering once we get an allergy test.

[DieselJunki]

I too was very nervous about starting raw. It seems overwhelming at first. I’m starting mine on it next week. I asked a lot of questions and then read some more, joined a few raw food forums and Yahoo Groups. When I finally put together a menu for a month I put it on here and got lots of wonderful feedback. I adjusted my menu accordingly (well hound dog mom helped Alot with that) and put in an order.

But before, while I was researching, I’ve been feeding The Honest Kitchen. Reading about them (reviews on this site and others as well) and going to their website seeing that they only use human grade food in their food just kind of sealed the deal for me. However it is a bit pricey. Around $95 for a 10lb box. But your dog being on the smaller side it will last you much longer than it lasts me.

Some sites you can order raw food and have them ship it to you are:
My Pet Carnivore
Hare Today Gone Tomorrow
Carnivore Feed Supply (this is a yahoo group)
Or if you live close enough you can go and pick it up and save on shipping.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by DieselJunki.

[LeahT]

Thank you for the links! I read through them and they are all very helpful.

We have been going to the same vet for years, and my parents for many years before now, but I have been wondering for a while if he is sort of out of touch with more current practices. We had taken our lab to another vet about an hour from here, but he brushed her seizures off as being something genetic. He was the one who recommended we try Neurotrophin, but didn’t seem to have any concern about her food. I will definitely be getting her thyroid levels checked as well.

From what I read in those our Jack needs a diet without carbs, low in fat, and high in protein. I would love to put her on a raw food diet, but I honestly don’t know enough about it that I would trust myself to do that. I would rather, at least until I do some additional research, find a dog food brand to try with her that suits that diet.

I have also read online somewhere (I can’t remember if it was this site or somewhere else?) that there might be some link between seizures and rosemary in dog food. Does anyone know if there is any real evidence behind that?

So, does anyone have any recommendations for low carb, low fat, and high protein dry dog food? And possibly one that falls into that criteria that does not have rosemary? I’m not even certain what is considered “low fat” and “low carb” for dog food, but I found a few through this site that seemed to fit that: Back to Basics, Dried-N-Alive Chicken Formula, Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural, EVO Turkey and Chicken Formula, Primal Freeze-Dried Beef Formula, and ZiwiPeak Dehydrated Venison. I’m not sure what would be the best, but the freeze-dried/dehydrated seemed to have the lowest carb content.

Thanks!

[pugmomsandy]

Transitioning can be as slow or fast as you want but I would suggest going by how their output is. If your dog has only eaten one food for several years it might take longer to transition as they are not use to the different kinds of ingredients. I’ve even taken two months or longer on one of mine. Basically I got to 80% new/20% old for over a month but I was transitioning them to a high protein/fat diet – Instinct. I usually go with 25/75 for at least a week and if there stools look good then increase to 50/50 for another week until their stools look good, then 75/25 etc. I didn’t know about probiotics or digestive enzymes back then so those probably would have made transitioning easier. You can even feed a mix of kibbles. I usually feed 2 different kibbles together and mix them up in a 1.5 gallon container in different ratios everytime it gets empty.

Also are you feeding a grain food or grain free food? That might also factor in the transitioning. I went from 1 star food to 4 star food to 5 star food over the coarse of a year.

Of course my fosters get zero transition time. I have know idea what they ate in their previous life and what they ate at the vet. I just give them probiotics, digestive enzymes and ground psyllium and hope for the best. They might have soft stool for a few days and that’s it.

I have found that they transition well on Nutrisource grain free and even Nutrisca. Petflow (and probably other online retailers) offer free shipping when you order a certain amount. Petflow’s amount is $49 so a large bag is usually free shipping. I’d get two large bags at once. They’re packed in the box tighter than one single bag.

Once you know how to read ingredients on dog food, it should be the same for treats. I used to give Beggin Strips, Pupperoni and even cheese balls as treats. Even fed one of my fosters Moist and Meaty after jaw surgery not knowing any better. Right now I use Vital Essentials freeze dried nibblets and Dr Becker Bites and Nutrisca freeze dried for treats. For chewing treats I give dry roasted trachea and tripe chews (very stinky) and fresh chicken feet and fresh trachea.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_4047600x450_zpsf34c6610.jpg
Just remember to cut the claws off!

A whole sardine is an easy additon too.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_60801024x821_zpsad7d39eb.jpg

Duck and turkey necks are great for chewing and cleaning teeth also. I can find small turkey necks at the health food store sometimes. Chicken necks are always at the ethnic grocery store and so are chicken feet and other kinds of feet.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_3998594x640_zpsf920079d.jpg

I don’t think you even mentioned raw food so I’ll stop there!

Yes homemade jerky treats are a money saver. You can even use your oven. Set it to the lowest setting and bake for at least 3 hours thinly sliced strips of chicken or other meat/organs on a lightly greased cookie sheet. I guess the new silicone nonstick bakeware will work. Store in the frig.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by pugmomsandy.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[brianb22]

One thing I’ve found odd about this site, which I’m sure I’m not the first, is that they don’t have reviews on treats. From some of the stories I’ve read on how bad they are(the fact that I’ve been giving my pups beggin strips for quite some time scares the crap out of me) I would really think they would have a section on here about them. I’m really considering buying a dehydrator if I can find a semi-cheap one.

[brianb22]

I was about to ask the same thing.lol. That’s some good info. Thanks! I was researching stores in my city that would sell any of the higher rated brands and I only found one unfortunately. Trying to avoid shipping costs if I can. The ones they have listed are: Advanced Pet Diets, AvoDerm, Blue Buffalo, Canidae, Merrick, Natural Balance, Nature’s Variety, Pinnacle, Royal Canin, Taste of the Wild, Zignature. Seems like they have some that you guys mentioned so I might try those and go from there.
You mentioned transitioning slowly at first and I’ve read that in other places. Exactly what’s the best way of doing that? I’ve switched types of food but the same brand with the small one and she has never seemed like it bothered her. The big one I’ve given the same stuff but have fed her the little one’s food some when I’ve ran out and didn’t have time to go to the store and she’s been fine as well. Would a slow transition mean doing half old, half new for awhile or something like that? I’ve been feeding them eagle pack dry food for the past few years which was given a 4 star review on here so I at least feel pretty good about that. There’s still some red flags but they seem pretty small. I’ll think about keeping that brand in the loop depending on the costs I take on with the new stuff.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

I don’t ever recommend cutting up RMBs unless the dog is very small – this just makes the dog even more likely to gulp. Some larger dogs don’t chew small RMBs such as chicken necks and feet and for this reason it’s better to feed them larger RMBs only so they are forced to chew (i.e. turkey necks, chicken backs, etc.). Only crunching a few times is normal – dogs don’t finely chew their food like people do. As long as she’s not swallowing things whole I wouldn’t be concerned. If you scroll down through the raw food topics there’s a thread called “Eating Raw Meaty Bones” that I started. In the thread I have two videos posted (near the end) of one of my dogs eating RMBs so newbies can get an idea of what’s normal – check those out.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[brianb22]

I own a 4 yr old great dane(female) and a 5 yr old boston terrier/english or french bulldog mix(female). Have been feeding them eagle pack dry food and beneful wet food(periodically) for the last 3 years or so. Somehow I’ve been ignoring that little voice in the back of my head to pay attention closer to the food I’m giving them until today. Probably because I haven’t seen them have any problems but after reading only a fraction of what’s on this site and elsewhere that is irrelevant now. So even though I know these are hugely opinion based questions with a laundry list of choices and combinations I’ll ask it anyways.
1) What’s 2-3 good choices for a dry food?
2) What’s 2-3 goo choices for wet?
Not sure if it applies but if there’s pet specific ones that any of you all have found to be good obviously feel free to mention that. Otherwise just looking for some good ones so I can start getting them on a rotational diet and off this stagnate one. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
For those of you who do the rotational diet I’d love to hear what your routines entail. Same brand but different types? Length of time for dry and wet? Etc..

[mydogisme]

Thanks Cyndi, I stay here right now because I know I will have to face the day alone without Dixie. I have cried all night wanting her back next to me. Her Dr. said yesterday to get another one when I’m ready but I too started Dixie out on Kibbles and bits thinking it was good for her until I walked in to petco or pet depot, cant remember now to buy her toy’s, dresses, p.j’s, rain coat, you get the picture, anyway I looked at the dog food and then looked at hers. It was in the garbage that night and I put her on Wellness that night as well. I wonder still if that was the start of her illness, she ate maybe a week of the stuff, then I wonder about the yearly shots the vets say they need. I wonder if we are just making the vets rich and making our babies sick! I want to put Dixie’s picture up but I have to figure out how. Dixie, mommy love’s you my honey bunny

[mydogisme]

Lullypup, Science Diet as you know is sold at a lot of vets offices because they get payed to sell it and S.D. donates money to vet schools(I have been told) and all you need to do is read the label. I too had a vet for my baby who thought there was nothing better but when I took her to an internist, he said ‘food is what nourishes us and what kind of food we feed our children, pets or ourselves, will determine how well they or we will be. I know you are at the right place to find help. Royal Canin has prescription food, you will need a scrip. to buy it unless you can find a store like a feed store will some times carry it because they have a large cliental who buy pet food from them. I found only 1 near me and it was an hour away. So, maybe besides what you are told here, maybe you might want to go to another vet if yours isn’t willing to offer another brand. I hope your fur baby gets well.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ella, I agree with Sandy. Homemade raw – while more time consuming – is so much cheaper than commercial raw. There are some great books out there with balanced recipes – “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is my favorite and Dr. Becker also has a great book out called “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats.” I have three bloodhounds and it would cost me over $1,000 per month to feed most commercial raw foods – I’m spending around $400 a month to feed all three homemade raw (that’s including supplements and everything). I order most of my meat from a wholesale supplier for less than $1 per pound and other meats I order from Hare Today (reasonable prices and reasonable shipping), I buy my supplements from Swanson’s (very reasonably priced quality supplements). I have my recipes posted on the recommended menus thread if you want to check out the types of meats/supplements I feed. The other benefit to homemade raw is that you’re in complete control of quality. If you’re not comfortable making your own food I’d say that the cheapest commercial raw brands would be Answer’s, Bravo Balance, HPP or K9 Kraving.

[Cyndi]

I am going to post my problem in this thread, because I Need Help!!

Last night Bailey threw up, not a whole lot and certainly not everything she ate yesterday, but still, she threw up mostly chicken and bone. Maybe about the amount of a cup or a little more. AND she had very runny poop last night and watery diarrhea this morning. & or course the vomiting and runny poop last night was in my bedroom. Anyways, this morning I fed her half the amount of Fresh Pet that I normally due, with a bit of yogurt. I need to get to the store after work and get canned pumpkin, but what do I feed her for dinner? Should I keep with the chicken leg quarter, or get boneless chicken or what? I want to see this thru and keep her on raw, but the pancreatitis problems 2 of the members here have had recently have me very nervous and I don’t want to do the wrong thing. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!!

[Cyndi]

Ok, thanks HDM. I have given her canned sardines a couple times already and she loves them. I’ll check her next 2 poops and go from there. I may also rotate morning meals with the Deli Fresh stuff and raw. I like the idea of keeping Deli Fresh in the rotation for a while because of the other stuff that’s in it and she loves it and that’s what I use to mix her DE with that I give her.

Thanks again for your help!! 🙂

[Cyndi]

I didn’t want to have to start a new topic, because I know I read the answer to my question somewhere, but couldn’t find it…

Anyways, for those of you that feed raw and fast once a week or however you go about fasting, I’d like to know what you do when your dog is bugging you to eat at that particular meal time that you are going to skip? I know fasting means nothing to eat, but is there anything you can give during that time to keep them “busy”? I know I had read someone’s response to this, but like I said I can’t remember where I read it.

& while I’m asking questions, I might as well ask another one. Bailey is on her 2nd day eating raw. I started with chicken. How long should I feed her chicken before adding something else, like turkey or beef or organs or something else? I’ve read a week, or week and a half or two weeks…

[mrsGHT]

Can you explain how you arrive at the number of calcium grams per 1000 kcal? Also, what is your opinion of Taste of the Pacific Stream Puppy food for a 4 month old Bouvier des Flandres? Somewhere (not on this forum) I read it was good for large breed puppies, but can’t find that info now. Thank you

[DieselJunki]

I’m not sure the Purina would really help anything (It’s an awful food in my opinion)… I would put him back on the Fromms. The Fromms is at least a much better kibble and then add in a probiotic. I use the Mercola one’s but if price is an issue for you the Swanson one’s would definitely be cheaper per dose.

I heard you say he doesn’t like to eat sometimes, Hound Dog Mom suggested Trippet for my puppy when he was a picky eater. A couple spoonfuls and he was chowing down!

Vets really aren’t all that great when it comes to the nutritional requirements of a dog. If all else fails and you can’t get the yeast under control think about raw. I’ve heard many stories where feeding raw helped allergies, smelly dogs, yeasty dogs, ear infections, ect. Not that it fixes all problems but I believe what I read was that kibble is full of carbs that contribute to feeding the yeast.

[Cavalierluvr]

Hi All,

I am thinking of putting Jasper on a probiotic. The vet found that Jasper has a lot of yeast in his stool. He currently put him on Purina Veterinary FortiFlora. The vet said that once the yeast clears he should not have to remain on a probiotic, but I am thinking it might be a good idea. Jasper has had several bouts of not wanting to eat his food, and will eat grass and vomit the grass/bile. On a really bad day, he refuses to eat at all. On a normal day he is so excited to eat. I’ve tried a few different foods, but he was mainly on Fromm Gold, and Canidae Lamb and Rice. He was on the Canidae since late summer when finally in March he started to not want to eat and wanted grass and to throw up. I tried Zignature, but he didn’t seem to do well…I finally put him on Fromm Beef and Veg GF. Then we ended up at the vet. He said not to switch foods right now and to use the probiotic. After doing research, I would like to eventually get him on a Grain Free/Potato free diet and add a probitoic daily. I’ve read about Probiotic Miracle and Wholistic Pet Digest. Is anyone familiar with either one of these and if so…would you recommend it…or is there something better?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Bernie831 –

Here are some articles on chronic ear infections, vestibular disease and allergies from Dr. Karen Becker that I strongly recommend you read:

<i>Canine Vestibular Disease</i>
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/06/04/canine-vestibular-disease.aspx

<i>Does Your Pet Have Allergies? What You Need to Know and Do</i>
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/07/02/does-your-pet-have-allergies-what-you-need-to-know-and-do.aspx

<i>Ear Infection: Number 1 Reason Dogs Visited the Vet in 2011</i>
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/07/02/top-10-dog-medical-conditions.aspx

<i>Tips For Keeping Your Pet’s Ears Healthy</i>
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/06/25/how-to-care-for-your-pet-s-ears.aspx

<i>Yeast</i>
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/03/eating-these-foods-can-make-your-dog-itch-like-crazy.aspx

You’ve got your dog on a lot of medications. Have you tried any alternative treatments (change in diet, supplementation, etc)? You’ve had your dog on several antibiotics, antihistamines, etc. – often drugs only treat the symptoms and not the underlying cause, so you may find that his problems will be recurring without a change in diet/lifestyle. Also, is he on a quality probiotic supplement? After being on so many various antibiotics this is important – antibiotics will wipe out his gut flora and a healthy gut is key to avoiding allergies and keeping the immune system strong. BTW – what does he eat? Sorry for all the questions.

That’s all I’ve got – I haven’t had any personal experience with these issues (that god). Maybe someone will pop in with some more input.

[puppylove]

We had similar issues with our dog and we purchased the Miracle Pack from Nusentia which actually did work miracles and we’ve just kept her on the combination for wellness… I’m reading a lot about Mercola, which I’ve never tried, but at first glance seem a little pricey and I’m not sure 14 strains of probiotics is necessary for a dog. Where do you find the Swansons probiotics for dogs? The only one I can see (Gentle Digest) is the one with Rice Flour and Chicory root as the first ingredients. The price makes me cautious and the ingredients look awful, but maybe I just am not looking at the right one?

[kcarter137]

I am new to this site and find it so thankful that I found it. Hopefully I won’t sound crazy but here it goes. I have had a really hard time finding food that work for my dogs. Everytime I think I have found a food it or they seem to have problems. They were all on California Natual or Innova and doing great until I changed them in October due to news that P&G bought them.

I have four dogs. Here is the breakdown:
13 year old golden female. Years ago the vet reccomended their Iams fish and potato diet which worked fine but due to budget reasons we switched her to California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato. She did wonderful for many years on that. We tried Taste of the Wild’s fish formula and immeditetly she started itching. Now she is on Tuscan Natural Lamb Formula. She is doing fine with her allergies on it (aka no itching) but after reading reviews I feel like I am feeding her an imcomplete food.
5 year old golden (no problem). Also eating Tuscan Natual Lamb Formula.
2 year old great dane mix (crazy sensitive GI tract). Eating Tuscan Natural Turkey and Chicken.
1 year old 13 lb mix (has major skin issues). She’s eating Orijen Adult – so far the only food that hasn’t triggered her demodex.

Here is the real question. Supplementing their diets with a freeze-dried raw food make since or should I switch their kibble? I am on a budget – but I can get Tuscan Natual at wholesale price which is about $35 a bag. I feed about 11 cups of food daily between all the dogs.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by kcarter137.

[Anonymous]

We have two shelter dogs: Bennie, some kind of border/bernese mix, 3 years old, adopted 1.5 years ago; and Fidget, a female doberman(?), 1 year old, adopted 6 months ago.

I have a husband who, if the dog doesn’t finish his bowl of kibble, dresses up the kibble with whatever he can find in the refrigerator — teaching the dog, of course that, if he holds out, he’ll get goodies on his food. When the husband is away on business, I put down a bowl of kibble with nothing else, and the dog finishes his plate.

Bennie kind of liked Purina One Beyond, but I know it’s not a great food and, if I remember right, we were at the point where it always had to be ‘dressed up.’

When we adopted Fidget, she had soft stool issues, and I read that Dobies have sensitive stomachs and should switch foods slowly. In addition, she has spay incontinence, so I am now trying to get her on a grain-free diet.

We’d like both dogs to eat the same food. We need the food to be at least 4 stars, if possible, and AFFORDABLE (10-12 cents an ounce, preferably). We prefer to feed just kibble, if possible. No raw. We’re lazy people, but want healthy dogs (and are trying to make that NOT a contradiction).

We’ve tried Victor and Dave’s grain free kibbles, so far, but Bennie won’t eat ’em. (Fidget, fortunately, will eat ANYTHING … and EVERYTHING.)

Any suggestions for a PARTICULARLY TASTY, grain-free, healthy, affordable kibble, that I could try with Bennie? We want something he’ll LOVE the taste of.

I have tried (when the husband was away, and Bennie seems to eat with fewer incentives) samples of Nutrisource and Hi-Tek but, if anyone has any suggestions for anything CHEAPER than that but still healthy, please let me know.

Thanks

[DieselJunki]

So I am going to be switching to completely raw here shortly as I just bought a chest freezer (best investment ever). I was wondering if you all could help me out in figuring out what kind of muscle meat/organ meat/bone I would need to get for a whole month if I were to order it from a site such as MPC.

My dog Moose is around 7 months old and I usually feed him about 1.5 cups of honest kitchen 2 times a day. Right at the moment he is being boarded for a couple weeks and when I get him back I’ll double check his weight but I’d say he weighs 50lbs or so right now.

Now if I were to feed 3% of his body weight I would be feeding him 1.5lbs of food a day. If I were to say I needed a months worth of food (30 days) I would need 45lbs of food . That doesn’t really split it up between what I would need for organ meats, muscle meats, and bone. I am not so good with math and was hoping you guys could walk me through the process of figuring this all out! I would very much appreciate it so later on I can do the calculations myself.

From reading around it seems if your not feeding a whole prey model diet you should go with food consisting of 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ meat, 5% of which must be liver over the course of 1 week. But from my understanding you don’t have to feed it balanced everyday. You could feed straight muscle meat one day and then maybe a few turkey necks or something (I understand they are mostly bone) another and then give them some liver or other organ meats. So long as by the end of the week you met the 80/10/10 percentages.

[Honeybeesmom1]

I saw chicken feet at my grocery store this morning! I was grossed out and excited at the same time. LOL I know I’ve read here they are rich in glucosamine & chondroition, high in fat and perfect for smaller dogs.
Mine are 5-13 lbs. Do I give a whole one or half? How often should I give and can I freeze them?
The package had about 15 in it. Thanks.

[BarneyBo]

Hi, PLEASE, NEED ASSISTANCE FROM OTHER PET PARENTS! About 10 days ago we got a Yahoo News alert stating the FDA was re-releasing a pet food recall list with 180 companies’ pet foods on them, (including Iams, Eukanuba, Purina, Alpo, Science Diet, ETC.)
Reason given was the food (wet, dry and some treats) have toxins in them, chemicals called melamime and cyulaic acid, when combined together they can cause kidney disease in dogs and they could die from it.
Our 9-year-old Labrador/Rhodesian Ridgeback mix, Barney, had passed away suddently just about a week before, on April 3, 2013, and the symptoms described for this kidn of poisoning sound a lot like what he had.
Please pass on any info you have on this. The FDA list was released in 1997, but apparently made the news again recently because of these pet foods causing new outbreaks of salmonella. How do we know that any of these pet food companies cleaned up their act since this recall in 2007? How do we know any pet food is safe?
Our Bishon Frise, Bo, who is 6, is lost without Barney. When he joined our family as a 5-month-old puppy (who is learning disabled due to being dropped on his head by his former owner), Barney was already here, and as “big brother,” he taught Bo everything he knows. Now he howls, hangs his head, looks for Barney everywhere, and will not eat. He has been showing signs of kidney disease as well, drinking a lot of water for one thing. He will be getting checked out at the vet asap.
When I called the vet about Barney, and later mentioned about the recall, he advised me to throw out the dog food and fix Bo chicken with rice, Tums, and to bring him in for a checkup.
We are scared of the long-term exposure Bo has had from the same food Barney ate, mostly small-sized crunchy type Kibbles and Bits types of dry food, and Alpo wet food.
Can anyone help us and give us some direction on this? Why would a list that was released in 2007 be re-released in 2013? Evidently at that time (2007) the govt. said this batch came from China, but who knows if any of it is safe? It appears the FDA is not too stringent on these companies or our own government’s standards. Experiencing outrage, grief and extreme concern for our surviving pet and many, many other dogs, cats, horses and their owners who have suffered needlessly. The ASCPA web site has a lot of great info on this. Thank you and God bless. -Barney and Bo’s Mom and Dad

[Scout0421]

We recently adopted a 6 month old lab mix, after our 15 year old lab mix passed away from old age. We went through a rather frustrating time in more recent years with all the dog food recalls, so I was careful to do my homework before bringing the new pup home – ultimately settling on Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free kibble. While I was out of town on business, my husband took our pup for his first check-up at the vet. I was very surprised to hear after the fact that our vet was NOT pleased with our selection of dog food. She told my husband that Fromm does a very good job of marketing itself, but she feels there are better foods out there. Specifically, Eukanuba, Purina One, Royal Canin or Hill’s Science Diet. I’m slightly suspicious of these recommendations as the vet’s off sells two of the three brands she recommended. I’m actually stunned that she prefers Purina One over Fromm’s.

I thought we had really done our due diligence selecting a quality food, make with quality ingredients, that had never been recalled. Now I don’t know what to think. Either what I’ve read is way off base, or our vet is a terrible source of advice on canine nutrition. Thoughts?

[dogsatplay]

pattyvaughn, thank you for the information regarding the updates. I’d like to point out that no where have I demanded that Dr. Sagman do an immediate update. I’m just asking. And to InkedMarie, thanks for the apology. You are, however, wrong to assume that I haven’t already read the reviews on this Web site, and the articles, especially those on choosing a good dog food, or that I won’t do it again if I decide to change foods. I’ve researched beyond “DFA” as well. May I suggest http://www.dogfoodproject.com, and http://www.thepetfoodlist.com for interesting information on who makes the foods? You can also get deeper information about the companies themselves simply by searching Wikipedia.

[NectarMom]

Patty is right Weimlove and we were using Darwin’s and my baby is now in intensive care and staying at the Vet for who knows how long. My bill is already $1300 but if they can make her well and then money is no object. I plan to probably put her back on Brothers Allergy since they changed the ingredients back to where they were the first go round. She did fine on it until they added that fish oil so we will give it a shot. Sometimes things do not work out and you have to do what is best for your furry babies health. As far as my research Darwin’s was lower in fat than most pre-made Raw and Darwin’s came highly recommended. Yes I am aware that licking in the air is Nausea but this was not that type of lick, she was trying to get in the others bowls to eat and licking. She will also lick in the air with acid reflux.

Thanks for the well wishes everyone. Weimlove Best of luck to you with your baby.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Honeybeesmom –

I would read to deeply into the posts from “texasmom” or “smitty.” Neither have every posted on the forum before. The above poster has attacked numerous other products on DFA and whenever he does several posters that have never posted on DFA before come out of the blue and agree with him. Coincidence? Possibly, but I doubt it. It’s quite humorous to me actually.

If you still no longer want to try Spot’s Dinner Mix there are lots of other options. I’ve never tried U-Stew. I tried Dr. Harvey’s Veg-to-Bowl once and all the vegetables came out the same way they went in. Dr. Harvey’s has since come out with a new Veg-to-Bowl Fine Ground in which the vegetables are granulated instead of in chunks – I’ve ordered a small bag to try, I’m assuming it will digest better but I haven’t had a chance to try it yet. I like THK’s Preference. My all time favorite pre-mix though is Urban Wolf. It’s whole-food based and powdered. It’s not too attractive looking but I find that the powdered formula digests better than other pre-mixes (such as THK, Sojo’s and Dr. Harvey’s). You have to add liver, eggs and oil to Urban Wolf. The only suggestion I would have if you do decide to try it is don’t add as much oil as the recipe calls for – just add the fish oil and omit the sunflower/canola oil it calls for. If you’re feeding predominantly poultry, add 2 tsp. flax oil to each recipe and if you’re using predominantly red meat add 2 tsp. hempseed or walnut oil to each recipe (you don’t need to add these if you rotate between poultry and red meats).

[dogsatplay]

Reading here I learned that Merrick bought Castor and Pollux in 2012, and that the ingredients list includes poultry meal, instead of chicken meal. They also now list poultry fat, instead of chicken fat. I called Merrick today, and a customer service rep said C&P made that change before the sale, and that they use the term poultry meal because the front of the bag claims to have organic chicken, which it does, but the meal, is not organic. Regulations (I think she said AAFCO’s) say it cannot be called chicken meal (!). She declared that it is chicken meal and that the FAQ on their web page explains this. Checking the FAQ, I found it says Ultramix contains chicken meal, but it to me it appears to say Organix contains chicken and turkey meal, under the term, poultry meal. I’d like the label to be clearer. Also, one of the FAQ’s is, ‘what’s in the poultry meal?’ The answer is ambiguous at best: chicken and turkey with the fat melted down and removed. Nothing about muscle meat, organ meat, whole chicken, chicken parts, etc. I think it’s time for an update of the review of Organix, especially in light of the fact that it is now made by Merrick. I’m already studying other brands with the possibility that I might switch again.

[REASMITH]

Have a 10 yr old Boxer who has a sensitive stomach and also “chews” his paws. He has been eating Iams ProActive Health mini chunks, but recently has started vomiting “little piles”. I need advice on which is the best canned food to feed him. He doesn’t chew the dry food, so therefore, canned food will be the best option. Several years ago he was diagnosed with pancreatitis and recovered and no problems until now. I have read information on several canned foods that will help with sensitive tummy and allergies, such as chewing paws. Any advice will be appreciated and I value advice from dog lovers and hands on experience.

• This topic was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Fix Duplicate Topic Title

[spoonyspork]

Oh, my female (the one with the problems with any other food than she currently gets) is much younger than my old boy I’m talking about in this thread. She has her food issues too (mostly that even though we only give her about half of what the bag says to give, she is still FAT) but it’s the old boy I’m trying to get to eat. He won’t touch the kibble now, even mixed with lots of wet food.

I went shopping last night armed with the 4-star-or-better list, and after starring in horror at prices (not to mention noting he’d have to eat at least three cans a day and he has trouble finishing *one* can), I ended up going with something that only has 3.5 stars but I thought he’d eat: Sojos ‘raw’ food. I realize it’s not the *best* (and I’d love to be able to make my own but that’s not really an option), but figure it’s better than him just not eating. I also know it wasn’t good to just go cold-turkey like that but since he won’t touch his kibble and has only been eating the wet food from the vet the last week, it was again better than nothing.

Anyway, as soon as I unsealed the bag he perked up and walked over to me, doing his ‘I’m not actually begging but OMG what is that?!’ thing. I mixed it up and set it on the counter and walked away, and he sat in front of the counter starring for the whole hour until feeding time. He gobbled up half right away, wandered off for a while, then came and ate the other half and licked the mess (which there was quite a lot of — it soaked for way longer than the bag said to and I think it should have gone even longer) off the floor. This whole time the other dog – who is separated off from him during food time as she steals food – was barking like crazy wanting to try it too (usually she just stands and watches) XD

Reading the review on this site, it looks like it might actually be a good option for *both* dogs with a bit of supplementation added? It’s only a little more expensive per serving than TOTW, and might help with the girl’s weight problem and more fat could be added for the old boy.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I agree with Patty – you need some source of fiber. Whether it’s fur, feathers, bone, vegetables or a fiber supplement (like psyllium). And if you’re only feeding boneless make sure you’re supplementing with calcium (800 – 1,000 mg. per lb. of meat). If you’re already feeding fish oil there’s no reason you can’t give the olive oil in addition to that if it’s helping. Olive oil won’t supply the EFA’s a dog needs (why they need fish or fish oil) but it won’t hurt anything and if it’s helping her poop I’d keep doing it. I do agree with Tracy that it may just be normal for Gemma to only poop every other day. I can say that I’ve never had a dog that only pooped every other day and I don’t know of any other dogs like that – but if her stools look normal and she doesn’t seem constipated I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

[spoonyspork]

Okie, I’m sorry this is so long, but want to give as much background as possible for the best choice in foods.

I have an older dog — 14 years old, lab/plott hound mix, currently approximately 60 lbs and looks a little on the lean side to my liking.

We’ve been feeding him Taste of the Wild (can never remember the exact one as I just grab it based on color — it has ducks on the bag?) dry since adopting him 5 years ago, and he has thrived pretty good on that. When we first got him from the shelter he had bald patches all over (almost completely bald on the bottom half) caused by a severe allergy to fleas, and was also rather overweight. Within a few weeks he was lean and shiny with a much higher energy level, etc.

Well over the last year he has begun to show his age. He’s been developing benign tumors all over (each is kept checked by the vet), and his hair has again been falling out. He also constantly has a flea problem despite lots of flea treatments and keeping both inside and outside as flea free as possible (we have no carpet in the house and his bed is switched and washed weekly). In spite of this, he still has a very high energy level and good weight though he’d been starting to look a little TOO lean despite upping the amount of food.

But last week I thought sure I was about to lose him. Long story short, he was diagnosed with vestibular disease and sent home, told it usually improves on its own and the cause is usually never figured out unless it’s tumors on the nerves or an obvious ear infection, but if he improves it’s likely not tumors. He did improve, but the next day his appetite was gone and later started squirting diarrhea that was more blood than stool (hours prior it was normal stool)… so straight back to the vet where he was additionally found to have a GI infection, and put on antibiotics and a wet canned food (Hills I/D). Additionally, the vet suggested I put him on a combo flea/worm pill since topical stuff doesn’t seem to be helping him anymore. His stool sample didn’t show worms or larvae/eggs. I said no to the pill as I wanted to research it first (which I’m pretty sure will be a ‘no’ after reading the side effects! Even just the common side effects were terrible)

It’s been a week now, and he’s slooooowly gained back an appetite as well as near normal mobility (slight head-tilt as I was told would probably happen as well as random missteps or falling over if he tries to take off at a run too quickly)… and now will not *touch* his dry food beyond a couple bites. He doesn’t seem to be being picky about it (and really isn’t a picky dog at all as a rule) — he seems to have trouble actually eating it — after a few bites his head starts to tilt worse and he seems to lose focus and get dizzy, then lose interest. I do have to put his bowl somewhere off the floor as keeping his head down for the amount of time it takes to eat seems to make him dizzy again. His stools are almost normal again though he still seems very raw and sore while trying to ‘go’. I was considering getting more of the I/D from the vet as I thought surely they gave it to us based on it being something easy on his stomach… but reading the ingredients here I’m kind of surprised he didn’t get *worse* on it.

So now my actual point! He is out of the ‘food’ from the vet so this afternoon’s meal will have to be something different (don’t worry; he’ll eat *something* if I don’t get an answer for a while!). I have the looong list of ‘best wet foods’ and was thinking of just switching to taste of the wild wet formula, but I wanted to make sure that is the ‘best’ choice as far as cost-effectiveness as well as with an older dog with the background he has (fleas, skin condition, benign tumors, etc).

I will say I have tried some freeze-dried ‘raw’ diets in the past and my dogs just never seemed to do well with it, and the extra cost, mess, amount needed to feed our large dogs etc just didn’t seem worth it. I will also say I am now somewhat leery of taste of the wild in general, as I may be taking the other dog to the vet as she’s been having very loose stools the last few days too (no blood or pure liquid like his were, but we’re keeping an eye on her) and she just started being fed from the same freshly-opened bag he’d been eating from last week (she had been eating from the older bag while he’d been eating from the freshly opened bag. Trust me it makes sense — they get different amounts that are separated by meal so sometime one ends up eating from a different bag than the other for a couple days)

Okay, I think I’ve given as much info as possible, lol. Thanks for any help!

[InkedMarie]

hi HDM,
Thanks for answering. She was eating mostly boneLESS and still sometimes not pooping unless I gave her olive oil so it appears the amount of boneless doesnt seem to matter much with her. As far as her stools, she hasn’t been a great pooper since we got her, it would take her a few minutes to get it out. Then, 2 or 3 weeks, I think, after we got her is when she ended up stopped up and had to have an enema at the vets. So, I honestly dont know how she has pooped. She was on kibble before we got her.
Before I posted here, I emailed Tracy at Hare Today. I thought she was home from vacation but wasn’t sure which is why I posted here too. This is her response:

“You are feeding 7 ounces a day right now. Is the dog maintaining weight at this? I had said to start at 6.72 ounces so you are a bit over the amount per day I would start with. Do you have a scale and weighing out portions?

Get sardine/anchovy oil or salmon oil which is fish based and use that as a daily supplement not olive oil. Olive oil is not species appropriate for a carnivore.

Try to do 4 meals of all boneless and by all means start feeding the tripe as a stand alone meal, as tripe has a lot of amino acids in it. Do every 5th or 6th meal with the meat/bone/organ grind and once a week add a tablespoon or so of the organ blend and see what happens. As I said you may need to keep tweaking this for her and see what works best. Again some dogs don’t poop every day which can be normal. I personally would not worry about it as long as she is having a BM every other day or every 3rd day.
Another thing you can do is feed a meal of a raw egg. Raw egg will also help loosen stools. Too much can cause diarrhea though so start slowly.”

My response to her is that yes, I apparently have been overfeeding a bit. I do have a scale, she already gets salmon oil. She gets a whole egg once or twice a week, the diarrhea hasn’t happened on those days but I’ll do half an egg. I told her if she poops every other day, I will have to live with that but NOT if it’s diarrhea. I have tripe and ground organs thawing now. I am going to put a tablespoon of tripe into the dogs ice cube trays and freeze them. I do that with the herring.
Comments on what Tracy said? Will check out the GI Detox

[pugmomsandy]

Yikes! You can also get there by going straight to dogforums(dot)com and searching for “raw feeding pictures thread”.

[Cyndi]

Thank you BRR3, very much! & Thanks pugmomsandy, I will check that out….. My biggest fear, and the reason I haven’t started my dog on all raw yet, is because I’m so afraid I won’t be able to give her or find the right variety she needs. The more I read up on what people feed their dogs the more confusing it is. I’m the type of person who likes easy. Yes, call me lazy, I admit I am, but it sure doesn’t sound easy to find all the things raw feeders feed their dogs. I have grocery stores by me, only one local butcher though. I haven’t checked with these places yet to find out costs and what’s available. I know it would get easier over time, once I get the hang of it, but I guess I’m just scared, because it’s up to me to make sure I’m giving her the right variety. I blame myself for the death of my other dog, because I had to put him down because I didn’t want to put him thru a bunch of tests and stuff at his age. The vet didn’t know what it was that went wrong with him and I believe it was a combination of feeding crappy commercial dog food, topical flea stuff and/or vaccinations.

I’ve looked up sample menus of raw feeders, hoping I guess to find that “one” that makes me say, ‘Yeah, THAT I can do’ but there is just so many things that people feed and to me it’s just overwhelming. I’m just afraid that I would give my Bailey the wrong things or not enough of the right things or whatever.

Thank you all for all your help. I guess it’s just up to me when I feel comfortable enough to make the switch. I really do appreciate all the help. I’ll just keep reading and researching and eventually, hopefully, I’ll just do it…

[Anonymous]

Hi Cyndi,

Prey Model Raw is by far the easiest and cheapest way to feed raw, in my opinion. You can spend as much or as little as you want. Since you only have one dog, it isn’t necessary to have to stock up and freeze meat if you don’t have the room or money. Your 50 lb. dog will probably need only need 1 to 1 1/2 lbs. of food per day. Buy a pack or bag of chicken leg quarters, and work around that, filling in the rest of the diet with different proteins/organs that are on sale/clearance. This does not have to be complicated, and it’s all about “balance over time”.

Of course you will want/need to feed variety, but I find that this is very affordable when you make chicken the staple. If you can get some chicken backs at the meat market, start with those for at least a couple days. They are soft/bony and recommended to start with. If you can’t find them, you can use leg quarters. You are fine feeding just chicken for a couple weeks. You will however need to start alternating in some boneless meals (every other meal if you feed 2x per day or every other day) or your dog may get too constipated from the bone. All 3 of my dogs are different, and one dog can handle more bone. You learn these things as you go along, and you adjust the diet accordingly.

Once your dog adjusts to chicken, you move onto something like turkey for a couple weeks. You can alternative it w/meals of chicken. Then you will move on to pork, beef, etc.

Heart is very rich yet very nutritious, and it’s considered muscle meat, not organ meat. It can be a staple as well for most of your boneless meals. You are fine feeding a meal of canned sardines/mackerel instead of raw once a week or so.

You don’t even need to worry about organ meat for at least 2 months. When you DO introduce it, go very slow or your dog will most likely end up with diarrhea. I’d even personally start out feeding small amounts of it along with a bony meal. Only 5 to 10% of the diet needs to be organ meat. You need to feed liver, and it’s best you feed another organ as well. If you feed chicken backs at first, your dogs will get some of the little organs that are attached early on–I never removed any of them and all was fine.

Here are foods I feed/have fed: Chicken – Frames, Backs, Leg Quarters, Legs, Breasts, Necks (to my smallest dog), Thighs, Hearts/Gizzards, Feet, Liver. Turkey: Necks, ground. Pork: Butt, Chops, Roast, Heart, Kidney, Liver, Pigs Feet. Beef: Heart, Ground, Steaks, Roast, Liver. Duck: Heads, Feet, Wings. Fish: Various frozen (thawed) and canned sardines/mackerel.

I recommend you read WORK WONDERS by Tom Lonsdale. It’s a wonderful book and easy to read/understand. Even he says that many peoples’ dogs do fine on primarily all chicken. I know my dogs get a lot of it.

Also, check out: http://www.preymodelraw.com. This site helped me learn how to feed properly.

If you’re not comfortable, you could always do a partial raw diet. I have actually been doing that for almost a couple months because I am having a graduation party soon and desperately need my freezer space for that food. So, I have been feeding part PMR and part kibble to 2 of my dogs, and PMR/canned to my other dog. Once the kibble is gone and the party is over, I would like to go back to mostly PMR, but would like to incorporate some days of canned food. Maybe you could do that OR feed raw along w/the FreshPet.

Hope this helps. Again, these are my opinions and what has worked for my dogs.

[BlueDog]

Yay Cyndi! I have also recently (as in yesterday) started researching a raw food diet for my 50lb ACD. I found a page (and forgot to bookmark) that helped me decide that with his weight range, I should give him about 1000 Cal/day, or about 1.25lb each day of food, including boneless meat and raw meaty bones. HDM’s suggestions are great, and I went today all around town to local butchers, grocery stores, and even a vet that has knowledge and that supports raw food diets. I made a list of what each place had to offer based on who had better prices on things, especially harder to find things like beef hearts and turkey necks. Ended up buying 3 fryer chickens that were on sale for $0.77 a lb, and some other stuff on sale. My plan is to establish my budget that I can devote to this, price everything up, and start saving. And also to buy meat when I see it for a great price. We are lucky in my area to have access to a local butcher, several grocery stores (HEB has had the best selection of doggy type meats for decent prices) and also a natural/organic food store that has a ton of the great supplements that I have seen mentioned. Check the “Transitioning to raw” thread on this section of the forum, it has a lot of great info and I think a sample recipe from HDM. There’s also a thread “Suggested raw dog food menus” that has several recipes that HDM and others have posted.

[pugmomsandy]

Invest in a commercial grinder. I can grind almost 100 lbs in 15 minutes. I usually buy body parts instead of whole birds also and just drop them down the grinder chute. It will pay for itself in time saved and you can also buy bone-in meats. Then I just pack it in containers or baggies. Depending on your size dog, a gallon ziplock will hold 6-7 lbs instead of packing individual servings. Pack what you can use in 3 days. I already had 16 oz Solo containers that I was using. You can get a roll of 25 or 50 at a restaurant supply store and of course they have different sizes. They are re-usable and are ok in the dishwasher top rack. I get mine at AceMart Restaurant Supply.

I grind into a large gray tub like restaurants use for bussing tables. Can be found at SamsClub or other stores or restaurant supply stores. That way I have room to mix the grind up with my hands then I use a big ice cream scoop for portioning. There are various sizes at a restaurant supply store. I only have to clean the grinder parts, the big tub and utensils.

[tonwol]

I am considering switching my 15 year old lab/shepherd mix’s dog food. I am currently feeding Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Selected Protein Large Breed Adult PW prescription diet. It is a potato (white potato) and white fish (herring) limited ingredient diet. The reason that I am looking to switch is due to cost. The price has been increasing on and off for the last 3 years and the last time I picked up a bag from my vet it was nearly $106.00 for a 26.4 lb bag, one month ago it was $98.00. She has been on a prescription diet since she was only 5 years old and has had many health problems so I have reservations about switching. She has inflammatory bowel disease and heart disease. Specifically she has an enlarged heart, leaking mitral valve and leaking tricuspid valve. She also had pancreatitis three times in her earlier years. She is on an ACE inhibitor and diuretic for her heart (Enalapril and Furosemide). The prescription diet is for her IBD and not her heart.

What I am looking for is a food with a fish based protein source. I would like to keep her on herring but I am not finding many OTC foods that have herring and after reading about the California Natural recall that one no longer a choice for us.

I have some questions about the fish and potato sources.
How big of a difference would it be to switch her from herring to a different fish like salmon? Would it make a big difference if the potato source is sweet potato vs. white potato?
Would it make a big difference if she has been eating a food with only one fish source and I switch her to a food that contains many different fish sources like Orijen’s 6 Fish formula?
Lastly, her current food does not have any Omega 3 or 6 added and my vet has advised against giving her Omega 3 supplements due to her IBD and pancreatitis in the past, therefor would it pose problems if I switch her to a food that has added Omega’s in addition to the fish source?

The brands I am currently researching are Evo, Orijen, Wellness, Canine Caviar, Innova Prime, Fromm, Diamond Naturals or Earthborn Holistic. Do any of these brands stand out in a nutritional aspect more than others? Are there any other brands with a fish formula that I am missing that may be an option for her?

I am sorry this is so long. Any help at all would be so very much appreciated!

Thank You,
Tonya

[DieselJunki]

I use a Vittles Vault rated for a 40lb bag of food. It has worked well for me. I have been having a hard time with ants however I have a bag of opened ferret food in the same pantry so it is quite possibly that.

As far as opening and closing the bin twice a day (or however many times you feed) I would imagine would have some effect on the food. Although I’m no expert and can’t really say for sure. I think I remember reading somewhere where someone said their dog seemed less enthusiastic about the food the closer it got to the end of the bag.

I have never heard of your pet silo system but it sounds nifty. I’ll have to look into it.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Lola –

I wouldn’t say that holistic foods are any less safe than non-holistic foods and I wouldn’t shy away from higher quality foods just because some have issues or have had issues in the past. For every holistic food with quality issues there’s a non-holistic food out there with quality issues as well. It’s important to research the manufacturer prior to feeding the food. Call the company and ask questions – ask if they’ve had recalls, if yes – ask what the recalls were for, ask if they outsource production, if yes – ask where, ask where they source their ingredients, the grade of the ingredients, etc. etc. Check online forums such as this before feeding a food to read the opinions of people who have actually fed it. It’s important to do your homework. There are many very reputable companies that make natural foods. Also, keep in mind no company is immune to experiencing a recall. A recall can happen to any company at any time and shouldn’t necessarily be grounds for dismissing a company – some very reputable companies experience recalls the important thing is how they handle the recall and what measures they take to ensure the same mistake won’t happen again the future.

[NectarMom]

I was feeding Wellness 95% turkey mixed in enough to coat the evening dinner but after reading up on it and seeing it has caraggeenan in it and it does not sound like a good ingredient to feed so I am ordering some Weruva kurbuta hero because it has organic turkey but also has some ham. I don’t feel completely safe feeding wellness. What does anyone think of Weruva. I still have enough kibble I want to use up and not waste so they need a can food to help them eat the Brothers allergy food or other wise it would sit there untouched. We are doing Darwin ‘s Raw in the morning and kibble with a topper in the evening until we run out of kibble and then it is all Raw.