[Suresh PM]

Fact is one of the raw material of dog food is meat and bone waste taken from slaughter house as dry product and they are unfit for human consumption since it contains blood, hair, hoof, hide rumen etc. companies don’t provide the information about the animal they use to get the meat. it may be goat, cow, chicken or even dogs and cats. Also the meat which is stored for long days may turn poisonous even its preserved sometimes. So, i decided to avoid pet foods which does’nt contain these meat.

My doubt is- i know many types of grains has proteins, fiber contents than meat….. is it advisable to avoid meat?.. will my dog fall ill if i don’t provide him the food with meat content.?
If no, kindly provide me with brands which produce meat free dog food…

Pls Mail me to [email protected]

• This topic was modified 11 years ago by Suresh PM. Reason: Spelling mistake

[theBCnut]

Dogs need meat proteins to thrive. Fresh meat is better than kibble, but just about any meat is better than no meat. There are some better quality kibbles that are not so questionable, you know.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi suresh.pm –

I understand your concerns about meat quality in dog food. I’ve settled on making a homemade diet for my dogs with human-grade meat. If you’re really concerned about the quality of meat your dog is consuming this could be an option. You can buy meat from the grocery store and make your own food from scratch, utilize a vitamin/mineral mix (See Spot Liver Longer Dinner Mix, Wysong Call of the Wild, U-Stew, etc.) or pre-mix (The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Urban Wolf, Grandma Lucy’s, etc.). There is a company called The Honest Kitchen that makes certified human-grade dehydrated food and a company called Weruva that makes certified human-grade canned food. I agree with Patty though, I personally feel meat should comprise a large portion of a dog’s diet. If you do go vegetarian be very careful. It’s important that you get a food from a reputable company or have a homemade diet formulated by a veterinarian or nutritionist or your dog could be missing out on very important nutrients.

[Suresh PM]

Thanks Patty and Hound Dog Mom.

You people cleared some of my doubts.. Thanks a lot for your valuable information. Possibly if you guide me with amount of energy needed for a 4 year dog i will be thankful.

Thanks.

[GSDsForever]

Suresh,

The highest quality dog foods and best companies take great care not to include those nasty ingredients. The key is finding a company/brand you believe in and can trust.

Looking at a company’s history, verifying the quality of main ingredients/sourcing on the the label, quality control checks, etc. will help reassure you about the food you select. If they aren’t forthcoming with answers and sympathetic, eager to help (although with the really small companies this can take time to get back to you with answers), or are evasive & vague or deceptive, or you don’t like the answers, walk away & find another brand.

Re vegetarian diets, if they are *vegetarian* as opposed to vegan, it is possible for them to be every bit as high quality, digestible, nutrient rich and health promoting as meat based. Organic free range natural vegetarian fed eggs, organic yogurt with live cultures, cottage cheese are all very good primary protein sources for dogs. You can do this with homemade. I’ve not been very impressed with commercially prepared, generally vegan (not merely vegetarian), kibbles and canned foods and I am pretty familiar with the options out there. Other new ones are insanely expensive. So while it is theoretically possible to make a very good vegetarian commercial kibble, it doesn’t seem to be readily available.

Not vegetarian, but more acceptable to many vegetarians, in that it is not cruelly factory farmed, fed unnatural weird things, and one of the least contaminated flesh foods out there is sardines. All are wild, live near the bottom of the food chain and so are not contaminated like other larger & longer lived predator fish, super high Omega 3 brain food also great for skin & coat, perfectly balanced calcium-phosphorous & soft easily digestible bones. Sardines are probably one of the very best non-vegetarian foods a dog could eat, and, to my mind, waaaay superior to the more popular-with-humans chicken based food.

Vegan is doable in dogs but riskier and harder, needs a good supplement including things like B12, l-carnitine, taurine, Omega 3. The easy part is supplying the amino acids through an array of foods, as the body does not distinguish between the same amino acid from one food versus another. In terms of nutrients (not natural preferences or digestive system), dogs are more omnivorous vs obligate carnivores, cats. The hard part is that many plant foods are not easily digested by dogs, whose systems are not designed for them. Many beans and whole grains (non whole grains, like white rice, are easily digested but high sugar) are next to impossible for dogs to digest, no matter how well cooked & prepared. Some breeds, like GSDs, are even less capable as a group of digesting than other breeds. Unlike whole soybeans, tofu IS very digestible; many dogs like it; it’s very versatile in how it can be prepared; and it offers various health benefits. It is healing to the stomach lining, for example. On the other hand, a prominent very balanced study of vegetarian fed pets showed that pets fed vegetarian diets without soy had much better health and longevity. From personal experience and knowledge of dogs eating vegetarian diets, lentils and black eyed peas seem to be more easily digested. It can be hard to supply enough calories and avoid too much fiber. Dogs can consume up to 50% fat in their diets in good health though, and vegetarian fats like organic virgin coconut oil are good for them & easily digested. Vegetarian diets, in humans and dogs, tend to be excessively high in Omega 6 fats which are pro-inflammatory and deficient in Omega 3.

Certain breeds like boxers and dobermans are at much greater health risk on a vegetarian or vegan diet, due to high breed susceptibility to deadly cardiomyopathy.

[GSDsForever]

Suresh, regarding energy/calorie needs for a 4 yr old dog . . .

No one can really answer this definitively. Breed/size, activity level, health, weather, etc. make a difference. I wouldn’t worry much about it, but feed to ideal body condition and what your dog tells you from energy level/health he needs, and go from there. I’d start with the recommendations on the bag, feeding twice a day, and then adjust. Good luck.

[Suresh PM]

Thanks GDSsForever for your valuable information. Now I understood that veg food also satisfies pets with equal amount of nutrition provided by meat food. Actually I was upset with the price of high quality vegetarian foods I buy every month. So I planned of preparing vegetarian dog food with fully natural contents (even flavors). I used all the healthy products we use in India for HUMANS. Adding flavors my dog loves (like chocolate, vanilla) I prepared this food in appropriate size and fed him. He loved to eat that and I also checked this food with my sister’s dog and my relative’s dog and they all loved it. The interesting thing is I made this at low cost without sacrificing the quality. Exactly to say I can make 1kg of food at less than 3$. Now I have theoretical nutritional values which is more than what non-veg provides. Now I am planning to find the exact experimental nutritional values.

My idea is other people can also make their own vegetarian pet food with the flavors our dog loves. Because none of the currently available meat-free diets for dogs or cats base their claims of nutritional adequacy on recognized feeding protocols such as those of the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO, 2007). Also non-veg food may have 5D problems( the 5’D sources are “DEAD,DOWN,DYING,DISEASED & DISABLED” animals). Make sure our pet eats healthy food which will help him now and also in future without sideeffects.

[GSDsForever]

Suresh,

Nice to hear things are going well for you. Keep up the good work!

One caution: dogs absolutely should NOT be given chocolate. You mentioned chocolate flavoring. Chocolate is toxic to dogs, along with other common foods like caffeine (coffee/tea), onions, grapes/raisins, macadamia nuts, walnuts, etc.

If you are going to feed homemade, which can be the very best for dogs, it is important to become familiar with poisonous ingredients for dogs, study/consult for proper diet balancing of nutrients, and use a quality multi-vitamin & mineral supplement (and if vegetarian/vegan, one specifically designed for vegetarian/vegan fed dogs).

[GSDsForever]

This statement is not true actually:

“Because none of the currently available meat-free diets for dogs or cats base their claims of nutritional adequacy on recognized feeding protocols such as those of the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO, 2007).”

There are multiple vegetarian or vegan dog foods that do. And there are multiple balanced non-USA brands as well. Not that I think the AAFCO’s standards offer particularly great quality assurance, but they are a starting point.

Also, regarding 5D meats & byproducts, while yes many dog foods do contain these, there ARE a number of companies producing dog foods containing meat that take great care to exclude these, with some going the extra mile to select the highest quality grades and things like organic, wild, grass fed/free range, human grade, and low ash.

Would you care to share what you are using for your homemade vegetarian diet for your dog? We might be able to help or offer suggestions here. And others might benefit as well.

[GSDsForever]

Dogspot,

I am not exactly an apologist for raw meat diets or bones & raw food. It’s not how I choose to feed or what I would even consider to be the very best diet out there.

My #1 preference is for a balanced homemade diet with a wide variety of lightly cooked and raw ingredients, depending on each ingredient, prioritizing nutrient dense, active super foods. Digestibility also matters to me, as well as whether my dog actually enjoys his food.

But, to be fair, 1)I’ve known many dogs doing well on well prepared safe raw meat based diets with very conscientious owners. 2)Many commercial kibbles, treats, etc have had huge contamination problems and recalls related to salmonella precisely, as well as moldy grains, melamine, vomitoxins, aflatoxins, e coli, etc. This is hardly a raw foods specific hazard or common occurrence. 3)Dogs, in truth, typically handle bacteria and such much better than humans do and healthy dogs have high tolerances.

I think some alarmist stuff with raw feeding is rather overblown. For example, I feed raw eggs and cooked eggs, and have eaten undercooked eggs in various forms and recipes all my life . . . without once getting sick from salmonella or having my dog do so either. At the same time, I became very sick with food poisoning from a single COOKED organic SWEET POTATO — likely either from inadequate washing or black spots on the skin that can cause rather virulent food poisoning.

[theBCnut]

Hi GSDsForever,

I think Dogspot is a spambot. When a post is non sequitur and appears to be part of an article, uses English words but in a way that English speakers never would, it’s safe to assume it is a spambot.

[GSDsForever]

Oh my goodness. LOL. Okay, thanks for the heads up.

I genuinely thought it was someone for whom English is a second language. I’ve graded papers where that was the case. And I guess I’m not exactly familiar with a spambot (or why it would appear here). So I was talking to a computer or automated thing? Ha ha.

[Suresh PM]

Hi GDSsForever,

I got the statement of AAFCO when i surfed about healthy diet for dog food. Surely i accept with you that we have many brands who take care of quality in preparing meatfood. But i am also concerned with price of those foods. Not every common man can afford huge price for his pet. Particularly in India we buy quality petfood for about 500/kg which cannot be afforded by most of the common men. So i planned of preparing this food with extreme quality.

I used wheat, rice, Soya bean, millet, whitecorn, and some of the integrands we use in our country for human diet which is mostly available in Indian region and so I am not familiar with English words of that. Sorry for that. I got information about the amount of feeding of these mentioned integrands from internet and mixed with some amount of milk and water and made into small sizes so that my pet can eat. About the flavor, My dog likes chocolate flavor and so I used it. I wont add any sugar or salt with my dog food since it is not good for dogs. I added just natural flavors but as u said the original caffine may be toxic to dogs. Please suggest me with some flavors our dogs like most so that I can try with my pet.

[Samanta]

I agree, dogs need eat meat, as well as porridges

[InkedMarie]

What are “porridges”?

[Cyndi]

Porridge is like an oatmeal. I don’t think dogs are supposed to be eating oatmeal. Bears, on the other hand, they eat porridge. (in nursery rhymes anyways, lol!)

[DogManDan]

good read here about raw, homemade and veg diet… I hope you get all the info you need here Suresh 🙂 Im not sure about the porridge though? maybe for upset stomach for easy digestion? thats what i do when i go on a diet or having a upset stomach 🙂

[theBCnut]

Porridge would kill my dog, but he has issues. Interestingly enough, he is a Border Collie and the breed as a whole was developed eating a lot of porridge, but he can’t handle much of any grains and none at all of some.

[GizmoMom]

Is porridge bad? I just made some from chicken and white rice to give to my dog. He’s been having diarrhea and the vet told me to give him boiled chicken and rice.

[theBCnut]

Some dogs can’t handle grains, a lot more than vets realize. The wolves they desended from would have had very little grain in their diets, and while dogs can handle starches better than wolves can, that doesn’t mean they should be on a diet that is primarily starch. As long as the chicken and rice is working for your dog, then it is fine, for the short term. It would cause diarrhea and much more severe problems in mine. I would have to use turkey and sweet potato or something like that. If my dogs ever have upset stomach issues, which is extremely rare, I just fast them for a day and it clears right up.

[chrisalcor]

I think that sometimes we look at these issues from an all or nothing perspective. I live in a multi- large dog household and would love a high quality raw diet all the time. But since I cannot manage the cost and want to keep as many rescue dogs as safe and in home as possible, I vary things. I do some home cooking, some raw, and supplement with a high quality grain free. But carefully shopping, both at organic dog boutiques and the human health grocery stores, I want to think I provide them with the best of all choices. But it takes lots of education and communication to find what works for each dog.

[omar zafar]

Actually it depends on dog breed, Some dogs are allergic to meat. And meat, pork, beef, chicken is not good for puppies, they only need liquid diet like milk and milk products.

[theBCnut]

That’s crazy!! Puppies start to eat solid food starting at about three weeks old. Mother dogs regurgitate already eaten food for them if softened food isn’t supplied by humans. By 6 to 8 weeks old they are ready to eat almost everything that an adult dog eats.

For dogs to allergic to meat in general they would have to be allergic to themselves and that would be fatal.

[Brittany Mom]

I had a Brittany that was allergic to 26 different things. Among the foods he was allergic to were beef, pork, and lamb. He ate chicken, turkey and venison most of his life. He was also allergic to barley, tomatoes, soy, kelp, beets, and a number of grasses as well as dust, wool, and feathers. I don’t know how he could be allergic to feathers and be able to eat chicken, but poultry did not affect him. For chews, we used to get him ostrich and emu bones. He passed away at 10 1/2 years old from hemangio sarcoma.

[mojo]

Hi everyone Im not sure if i have overseen the topic of porkbut i need desperate advice, i decided to do something good for my dog and move away from commercial dry food and i decided to make him a meat loaf with rice, carrotts and minced meat. after all that work and shoving it in the oven i realised that the minced meat i had was a mixture of beef and pork… now i have heard that pork is dangerous for dogs… now im not sure if i can feed him it or not. the loaf backed for 1hour 20 min im sure any bacteria would be dead now… and is pork generally bad for dogs…. sorry if this is the wrong thread to have posted this.. but would be very grateful for any advice

[neezerfan]

Pork is not bad for dogs, in fact some commercial dog food companies are now making pork based foods. If your dog is not accustomed to switching foods, add it in gradually.

[InkedMarie]

Mojo: first, I’m not sure that’s a balanced diet. Second, you don’t need to cook meat for dogs, they can eat it raw.

[theBCnut]

Mine get pork all the time. It is high in fat, so if you have a dog that is prone to pancreatitis then it probably isn’t a good idea, but for a normal dog, it’s just fine.

But have you done any research into what dogs need in their diet? Making them an occasional homemade meal that isn’t balanced is fine, but you at least need to know what dogs need, to balance over time before going solely to homemade.

Dr Karen Becker has a great book “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” to help get you started. Steve Brown has one for raw feeding that is fantastic, “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” which I recommend even if you don’t want to feed raw. It has info that everyone making homemade needs to know. And it is available as a ebook.

[rogerharris]

Meat is main ingredient of the dog food. Raw meat is better than cooked meat. I would like to suggest you buy the meat in the supermarket. Before staring the meat you must concern you vet.
Egg and vegetable are also good for dog food. It gives more energetic food for dog.

[Susan]

1

[Deby G]

Hello, I am new to this forum and I am so glad I have found all of you. I recently rescued a 6 year old poodle mix. She weighs all of 7 pounds. Marley was in a foster home for about a month and was fed Dr. Harvey’s miracle food. It is dry grains and vegetables and is mixed with boiling water to make a consistency similar to oatmeal. 4ounces of protein and a small amount oil are added to supposedly make a “perfect” diet. I feed Marley twice a day. For protein I add either human grade chicken, beef, or salmon. I have never feed any of my dogs “people” food. Her foster mother also added cooked veg. and sweet potato. She doesn’t like sweet sweet potatoes when I add them but will eat cooked string beans. She is so tiny and her teeth are not the best so she needs a soft diet. She also doesn’t eat a lot at one time and keeps going back to her bowl. I am petrified of processed dog food. I have used Merrick, etc. but with all the recalls I will not buy any canned food and she can’t handle dry. Can I get some advice on the diet I am feeding her? Has anyone heard or have experience with Dr. Harvey’s? He also makes a grain free which I guess I should have ordered. I do notice she appears to strain a lot so a few days ago I started to give her a tsp of pumpkin to see if that will help. I also don’t want to over do on vitamins. This is all new to me. Help! I will appreciate your guidance. Thanks. Bunny

[theBCnut]

I use Dr Harvey’s Veg to Bowl and I really like it. There is no such thing as a perfect food and that’s why rotating to different foods is a good idea. There are a few different premixes that you either just add meat to or meat and oil. Look for See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix, Urban Wolf, The Honest Kitchen Preference, just to name a few.

For extra fiber, you can add psyllium, chia seeds, make your own veggie puree, or pumpkin as you know.

[Chanel]

I agree with you guys and i try to give my maltese fresh cooked (organic) meat like lamb bison or venison, i avoid chicken because they say for maltese is not that good and can give allergies! my problem is im still confuse how much i should give to her or if i could mix with some Honest Kitchen or Orijen the brands i normally use ! so please if you guys could help me with this i appreciate it

[Cesar M]

Thank you for giving suggestion for giving the meat proteins to the dogs. because, i also think that home made veg. food is good for dog. So, thank you for giving explanation regarding dog foods.

[Cesar M]

Yes, meat food is good and healthy for dogs. This food gives more energy to dogs.

Thank you

[Mareo T]

I was reading an article related to food for dogs or any breed. It is clearly mentioned and doctors also say give chicken bones or mutton bones but the proportion should not be excess. It does not means that you are giving thrice a day. there are many more things to give like milk , egg and fish. today doctors and dog training academies provide food chart for different breeds. It really works and helps.

[Author]

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