[Susan]

Hi Misti,
when you see vet tomorrow ask him/her is she up to date & know alot about skin problems?? it’s just some vets are better with certain health problems, I’m lucky I’ve finally found a vet after seeing about 4-5 vets & she has a rescue dog with food Sensitivities & Skin allergies, now my vet writes me out prescription & I take to the pharmacy & get heaps cheaper as you probably know vet medication is triple the price why I do not know?? I was paying $4 a tablet for Patches acid reflux now I get 30 tablets for $7.99 a month thru my pharmacist a big difference…or there’s online pet pharmacys if your girl is put on any medication for skin they’re expensive see if vet will write you a script so you can buy online or go pharmacist if your vet wants to put your dog on Apoquel or Cytopoint is heaps better, Cytopoint is a newer drug made by the same company & its given every 4-8 weeks Cytopoint has less side effect then Apoquel so ask your vet about applying Hydrocortisone 1% cream to start with & using teh Malaseb medicated shampoo & change her diet, the Hydrocortisone cream is also called Cortic-DS 1% Patches over the counter cream from pharmacist I’m using at the moment says “Hydrozole” for Sensitive inflamed fungal skin conditions contains Hydrocortisone (1%w/w) and Clotrimazole (1%w/w) cost $11 its a cheaper cortisone cream without a script thats sold over the counter at Pharmacist or Walmart but ask can you try Hydrocortisone 1% then ask how much it cost thru him/her the vet then if its over $15 just say oh I can get from at chemist/pharmacist for around $8-12$ it can come under differerent name at Walmart but read smaller print & you’ll see Hydrocortisone 1% as soon as I apply the Hydrocortisone cream Patch gets relief with the itchiness & the redness inbetween toes & up his paw starts to goes away & how I use to stop him licking his paws is I’d apply the Hydrocortisone cream then I’d get the white elastic bandages cut about 20cm off & put around his paws not to tight & not to lose so it can fall off then I get the white bandage tape & tape the bandage his 2 front paws were always worse then his 2 back paws & then I’d get those baby sock & put a soak on front paws only at night so the bandages wouldnt fall off the socks came off but he’d still have his bandages on his 2 front paws & his vet said if he did like off te Hydrocortisone cream it wouldnt hurt him instead of giving a steriod tablets your using teh cream instead & the cream is going straight to the problem area, when she is going outside try & keep her paws covered so the snow cant wet her paws or as soon as she comes back inside wipe down & dry her paws then when paws are dry apply the Hydrocortisone cream & her paws will start to get better as long as she isnt licking them she has to stop licking the paws as they make them worse then order some “Sudocrem” or look at the Ingredient in teh Sudocrem look in the baby section at your supermarket for a baby rash cream that has similair ingredients as the “Sudocrem” has Zinc, Anti fungal & antibiotic in it & during the day when she is going in & out side apply the zinc/antibiotic cream & it will protect & repell the water off her paws from & help heal them as well……later on you will get the hang of all this there’s no magic tablet or diet when they get red itchy paws you just have to use creams protect & wipe & keep her paws dry, I bet the wet snow isnt helping her???? you can try the water proof booties but if the dog wasnt brought up with booties from a pup they normally dont except shoe, Patch walked like he was walking on the moon & wouldnt walk in them so I took the booties back to pet shop & used the bandages until I got his paws better again & like I said every night while he’s sleeping on my bed I check his paws, around his mouth chin, above his left eye anywhere his fur is white & his skin is pink goes red & itchy worse in Spring/Summer months & when it rains or if he eats Chicken, Barley, Oats, Tapioca, Corn, theres probably more ingredients he cant eat aswell…
Buy a cheap 2018 diary a diary where it has a whole page for each day cause some days you might have to write down a lot, write down what she is eating & what cream your using what medicated shampoos your using, the “Malaseb” is really good its an antibacterial anti fungal shampoo & kills any yeast, bacteria on paws & skin it can be used daily if needed & you dont need to apply much a small bottle last a while..

[Vonda G]

I am brand new to this site. I have 2 indoor dogs. One Sheltie and one Border. 35 and 40 pounds. They are 6 and 9 yrs old. I presently feed them IAMS can and dry which they are doing great on and maintaining healthy weight. I would like to find a better food after all I’ve read on here but really can’t afford it. Is there any can dog food healthier than IAMS for similar price? Like no more than $1 a can? If I were financially able I would. Im 62 Yrs and out of work as nurse due to injury. My food budget is cut for me too. Just trying to get through until I can get back to work.

[JOHN B]

Linda, It sounds like we are very much on the same page. After the weeks of research I “ALMOST” am not even concerned with price anymore. I really can’t see serving something like honest kitchen though $$. I feel there has to be a great kibble to feed my kids. I have to add a very important fact…. My dogs do not have huge allergies even though I have been told one of them has colitis.

I use to feed Orijen but it is too rich for her tummy. I have tried a few other limited ingredient foods that seemed to work for them but there always seems to be a reason to keep looking.Company gets bought out or company relocates and quality of food is in question.

After all my research I am leaning towards Zignature.I am now getting ready to break down ingredients so I can determine if any type of supplementation is needed. Such as splitting a pouch of salmon for breakfast. I feel I am trying to do the right thing for my girls without going overboard. I just want them to get the correct amounts of what they need in the purest and cleanest forum.Then I don’t want it to CHANGE. Is that asking to much…=)

Thanks everyone for the help it is very much appreciated. GREAT SITE FOR SURE…

[Jessica J]

Ahhhhh…. so glad I stumbled across this thread. As a store manager of a grooming salon & pet boutique, I literally spend my day surrounded by high quality dog food and have successfully advised countless dog owners. I have spent hours respectfully arguing against the “my vet says Science Diet” is the best food argument. My 8 year old Australian Labradoodle has mostly eaten Acana or the Fromm 4-Star GF line. She’s a finicky one and tends to prefer the Fromm. Well… 3 weeks ago a friend of a friend found a baby Lab on the side of the road. Cold, slightly malnourished, and scared. After confirming that nobody was looking for this sweet little lost soul… I made her a permanent member of my family. In desperation the first night I got her, I brought home a bag of Orijen Puppy kibble and Primal Raw Goats Milk. My only thought being that this little girl needed some good nutrition asap. After a week of thriving but with loose explosive poops, I realized that the Orijen was probably a little too rich for her belly. So I did a little research and checked some numbers and trusted my intuition- and put her on the same Fromm kibble my Doodle eats. She is gaining a perfect 2lbs a day, solid stools, looks great, etc. I have occasionally supplemented with a little Primal Raw Goats Milk. Saw the new vet at my beloved practice today and was chastised and lectured that she should be on a Large Breed Puppy food so that she doesn’t end up a dysplastic disaster at a young age. Then I came home and found this thread as well as confirmed for myself that the numbers hit where I wanted them to. Thank you for the knowledgeable common sense advice and all your wisdom!!

[Nacho K]

Hi guys,
I have had my golden retriever puppy for 2 weeks now, and after reading all the comments in this forum, i decided to feed him with Wellness puppy food. I just realized I have been feeding him with the normal puppy food and not the large breed one. And also, he lost almost a pound in last week. From 16lbs to 15.2lbs. He is 10 weeks old. I am going to buy him the wellness for large breed puppy today. Do you know if the reason was the type of puppy food? Do you recommend any other type of Food?
After spending hours of reading the forums, here is my list but I can’t decide which one:
1. Wellness Dry Large Breed Puppy Food (~$62/30lbs)
2. Purina Pro Plan FOCUS Puppy Lamb and Rice (~$44/$34lbs)
3. Nutri Source Large Breed Puppy (~$55/30lbs)
4. Holistic Complete Large/Giant Breed ($45/15lbs)
5. FROMM Large Breed Puppy (~$60/30lbs)
6. Orijen Large Breed Puppy ($89/25lbs)

I would eliminate #6 just because it’s expensive. Any comment on the rest? Or any additional option I need to consider? Are these all AAFCO approved!?

Thanks

[Rick W]

Hi,

I’ve been doing a lot of research on food for our new puppy. He is an F1B Goldendoodle and is about 3.5 months old. He will probably end up around 70-80 pounds based on his parents. I currently have him on Fromm’s Heartland Large Breed Puppy kibble. It’s grain-free and based on what I could read, seemed to be better than others. I’m on here now because I’m noticing his poop is formed at first and then towards the end if very runny (gross, I know). All his vet checks have been fine. Just wondering what your thoughts are on if this is food related. I’ve tried to check out raw feeding, but I just can’t do it on our own and it’s too expensive to purchase, especially has he gets bigger.

Thoughts?

In case you need it, here are the ingredients for the food we are feeding: Beef,Pork Meat Meal, Peas, Lentils, Chickpeas, Potatoes, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Whole Egg, Pork Liver, Pork Fat, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Lamb, Cheese, Sweet Potatoes, Brewers Dried Yeast, Alfalfa Meal, Carrots, Lettuce, Celery, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Chicory Root Extract, Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Tryptophan, DL-Methionine, Sodium Selenite, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics

[cynthia w]

thank you everyone for all the info you have supplied. i truly appreciate it!!!

anon101 i am now in the research mode regarding “plant protein” sources. thank you for the info you sent.

susan, i ordered the tylan powder. also the info for the youtube video i will watch as well.

we have not been “diagnosed” with SIBO or IBD. i am a person who will not only see my vet with any small issue but also knows when to “treat the symptoms” vs running to every single specialist out there who in the end usually has you “treat the symptoms” until you become what my vet calls “a statistic in someone else’s book”. i have learned the hard way regarding this with other animals which i won’t get into here. for me i am fortunate it is not about the money, it is about the sanity of the dog being poked and prodded at by so many strangers. malinois don’t do so well with that. there is a breaking point with every dog, i’m just not willing to go there for the dogs sake!

so what i have done after being told to put a high energy dog who can stress (not panic, it is the drive of the dog “another subject”) on high fiber diet. at this point, from the foods i have tried (orijen tundra included. love that food) along with pumpkin (usually made it worse) after hearing susan talk about “high fiber” being bad juju for SIBO i put it together and stopped which resulted in the dog not having so many soft poops. however, the reason i chose to go to rx was after reading several vet case studies and the symptoms fit at that point (straining and soft poops) i was on the rx for 10 days. stopped a week later trying the totw sm MIXED with sd low-fat gastro at first worked then stopped. i went back to the rx for three days and cut back on totw sm still mixed with sd low fat gastro. still issues. today, i went to sd gastro (NOT LOW FAT) and have yet to see a poop. hopefully tonight. i also took note the sd low fat had more fiber than the sd non low fat. now i’m going to straight sd gastro for a few days to see if it is indeed the protein to fiber ratio causing his issues. he has had LIMITED STRAINING since the first round of rx which that is a good thing.

i have also given the “pro-pectalin tab” off and on during the whole course of when i noticed he was not gaining weight a few months ago which could be contributed to growth spurt or mal absorption or not enough food for training. since then in 4 weeks he has gained even with continuing small issues FOUR POUNDS!!! a POUND A WEEK!!!!! i’m super happy about that! so anyhow, at the moment because of the type of work we do, (high stress work) i have a bag of royal canin gastro high energy waiting in the background. it has higher fat 18% 23% protein but like 3-3.5% fiber. hoping this will workout and that i can again try to go back to mixing the orijen tundra in because of the protein sources.

there is so much great information here from all y’all that take the time to post. and like someone said i think it was taylor, people that come here are looking for answers they are not getting elsewhere. so for that thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedules to help others.

[Fanette R]

Thanks Susan and Taylor for your help.

It’s so tricky having to take care of IBD and pacreatitis at the same time!
I was also wondering about the “min 12%” actually, but thought it won’t be too much higher.
I also was skeptical about the Fiber in “First Mate Pacific Ocean” ’cause it might not be good for Furby’s issue.

I’ve checked the food “Kirkland Salmen & Sweet Potato Formula” but I saw that it’s a 14% fat formula, isn’t that too much?

Yeah ordering those food might be tricky too.. I don’t think I’ll even be able to order Wellness, I’ve tried to check if I could order dry food for Furby through Amazon, from the US but it doesn’t seem to be possible.. France is very bad for dog food…
Lately we have had Acana, Orijen and Taste of the Wild coming into our pet stores, but that’s basically it.. And from what I read none of those brands would go with an IBD dog who suffers from pancreatitis…

I might be able to order Natural Balance online through providers. There is no providers in France but in Europe there is once so I could contact them.
I just hope Furby would do ok with sweet potato as it’s the first ingredient.

Anyway, I’ll keep looking, it’s just frustrating ’cause I can’t order much good dry food as there isn’t much of them around my area..

The only one I’ve found that I could order easily is the “GO! Sensitivity + Shine Salmon”
On the french website they say “12% fat” but on the english one they say “12.4” so I dunno.. This brand also have a LID section but there is lentils is all of those recipes.
Go! Sensitivity + Shine Salmon https://www.petcurean.com/product/go-sensitivity-shine-salmon-dog-food-recipe-eu/

And Merry Christmas to you all! 🙂

• This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Fanette R.

[Colleen R]

Hi!
New poster here looking for some opinions/ My 11 yr old dog (55 lbs) pit/pointer mix was recently diagnosed with PLN.

The vet said she will need to be on a prescription diet the rest of her life and medication. The food is expensive. I put her on Hills K/d and she hates the dry so I bought her the wet food which she eats just fine, but reading some articles about prescription diets I’m wondering if this is a scam. I would be spending $1600/year on her food if I keep giving her canned. Does anyone have experience with this disease? I’m open to feeding her a raw diet too. I just find it outrageous to spend that much on her prescription food and wondering if it’s all a scam and I could get the same results from a raw diet….I do need to talk to my vet about this and I may even get a second opinion. Any feedback is much appreciated!

[Fanette R]

Exactly Taylor 🙂
Those are very tricky disease and you need to tak get all the info you can get, and then talk to a vet about it.
I’ve changed vets several times this past year too. Furby actually had a pretty tough year because of vet. Last year, around october, Furby’s was shaking and I could tell his stomach wasn’t ok. I went to my vet, explaining that to me, but because Furby have had back pain, he was sure it was the problem. So he gave him cortisone. Came back because Furby wasn’t ok and kept telling him that I was wondering about his stomach being the problem and he was like “look, see how he react when I touch his back, I’m telling you it’s his back”, he gave him cortisone again.

Then one night he was shaking a lot, I brought him to an emergency vet because I was worried. This vet actually told me straight there were something wrong with his stomach. This vet was very “brutal” with furby (he wasn’t violent or anything, but Furby is a rescued dog and need vets to be gentle with him, otherwise he tries to escape and hurt himself by fighting against the vet). I said to the vet that it should be careful with Furby cause he has back issues, but it still went harsh on him, said nothing was very bad, gave some light stomach medicine and I left.

I came home and furby couldn’t walk properly and was screaming so much. Called the vet and saying that something was very , very wrong. He told me that there were something wrong with me, not with my dog and that I should calm down….
Next day I go to my vet, and straight he is like “oh my god but what’s going on? looks like a very bad hernia” and told me to go straight to a clinic where he could get surgery.
Then we went to that clinic this is were I met my wonderful vet that I kept since then.
He had surgery for his hernia (hernia caused by the other vet…) and then after a few weeks got his first pancreatitis, diagnosed by my new and actual vet.
So… my dog actually had severe stomach pain from the beginning, his back pain wasn’t the cause of the problem.. and by giving him cortisone again and again actually made it worst because Furby doesn’t do well with cortisone (that’s why my vet and I are very careful about the medicine he has now with his IBD), and ended up because of all that with his first pancreatitis.

So, yes sure listen to your vet.. but first of all, find the right vet, and more importantly , a vet who would be open and ready to make researches and ask around, especially when your dog got a tricky disease.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Fanette R.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Fanette R.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Fanette R.

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

I’ve said it before, some people posting replies here fail to realize that others come to sites like this to read about other people’s experiences with what works and doesn’t. Unfortunately, sometimes the examining vet doesn’t always have all of the answers. While it is always a good idea to run things by a vet, they may not always come to the same conclusions others have. If I had only listened to my vets, plural because i changed many times while dealing with this issue, my cat would be dead right now. They all missed what was truly wrong with him and it took me finding someone who had the same issue I had on a forum, and then going to the vet and telling them what I wanted them to prescribe (ended up being metronidazole for this particular issue).

I’m glad you’re finding people with some solutions to both your IBD and pancreatitis issue that your vet is being supportive. both are difficult problems and it helps having support groups you can turn to.

[Fanette R]

But I never said that those vets saw my dog, did I ?
I was just mentioning that because I was talking about prescription diet et commercial diets, that’s all. I wasn’t talking about my dog here. Of course I’m not gonna take for granted what I read and will talk to my vet about any little things I would have in mind.

I think I mentioned several times here already now that I have discussed everything with my vet. That all I’m deciding and all I’m mentioning here about my choices, have been discussed with my vet too.
When your dog has those kind of disease, such tricky ones, it is very important to research as much as possible and to ask around to people who had a dog with IBD. And after that, of course, you talk to your vet about what you found. My vet is doing research on her own, I’m doing research on my own, and then we talk about it. It is a tricky, tricky disease, and vets are admitting themselves that don’t have all the answers yet

My vet and I are actually emailing each other every single day. I’m very close to her since the beginning of Furby’s problems and she is doing all she can. Which includes researching and discussing with me.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Fanette R.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Fanette R.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Fanette R.

[Fanette R]

Yes I totally agree, loose stools/diarrhea indicate that the current diet does not agree my dog. Since I rescued Furby (almost 8 years now) he has been on dry food, and from time to time, more as treats, wet food. Because we had some struggles those past few months because of his IBD, my vet told me to keep him in that wet food for now as he seemed to do well will it. But it worked when I mixed it with dry food, not by itself. So yeah I need to go back to dry food.
Yes IBD is a lot about tests and errors, everyone needs to be aware of that.
But you’re right, I should feed him a bland diet for a few days and let my them know of course.

To go back into this prescription/no prescription diet, I’ve spent hours and hours, days and days, researching informations about IBD (and I mean researches official informations and vet studies). And in all the studies I wrote about IBD, the vets were saying that there were two options with IBD : “hydrolyzed food” (that you can find in some prescription diet) and “novel protein diet, with usually potato or even better sweet potato”, and they mention that you can find very good novel protein diet through commercial brands. None of them have said that a dog needs to go on a prescription diet. I read this very interesting studied about IBD in dogs by a very good vet from the University of California, who study IBD, that said the exact same thing.

Furby has had a sensitive stomach since I got him. I never put him on a prescription diet because most hypoallergenic formula had rice on them, or chicken and furby doesn’t do well with those two. So he was better with a very good hypoallergenic commercial brand.

All I’m saying that for me there is no “prescription diet is better” or “commercial brands are better”. It depends on the dog, that is all.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Fanette R.

[Susan]

Hi Fanette,
the Australian made & Europeon made TOTW Sierra Mountain & Pacifiic Stream does not have Lentils or Garbanzo beans, send an email to TOTW & ask TOTW is the TOTW sold in France like the TOTW made for Australia & has No Chickpeas or Lentils in the TOTW Pacific Stream & in TOTW Sierra Mountain formula’s?? then ask can I have the TOTW formula’s made for Europe.. I have the Australian TOTW formula’s link if you want to see the different TOTW formula’s, when TOTW was changing their formula’s back in 2015 a few of us that are in a face book group called “EPI in dogs” contacted TOTW in America & we told TOTW we have very sick dogs, 1 lady dog had EPI, my boy had IBD & another lady dog had IBS & since putting all our dogs on TOTW Pacific Stream & Sierra Mountain formula’s all our dogs have finally gotten better, (Probably cause these TOTW formula’s have 1 single meat protein, it’s lower in fiber under 4%, uses Potato & Sweet Potatoes, has Probiotics & uses purified water & Kcals per cup are low) we have read all the complaints with the poor dogs in the UK that are eating the new TOTW formula’s most of these dogs have bad Diarrhea from the new ingredients Lentils & Chickpeas, we were told TOTW are adding Garbanzo beans to their Pacific Stream formula’s & Lentils to their Sierra Mountain formula’s, Lentils & Garbanzo beans can cause intestinal stress especially when you have IBD, IBS & EPI, can TOTW please keep the Australian & European TOTW formula’s the same without the added Lentils & Chickpeas??? then TOTW contacted me & said they will be keeping the TOTW formulas the same & they will not change these 2 formula’s that are imported to Australia & European countries…… we were all sooo HAPPY & thanked TOTW for doing this plus I think the TOTW veterinarian Dr’s agreed with us & they knew we were right that Lentils & Chickpeas can cause Intestinal Stress, I’d rather eat potato or sweet potato then eat taste less lentils or chickpeas Lentils give bad wind pain & you have the farts lol
As you know its very hard finding foods that agree with an IBD dog, people that have never had IBD or have never had a dog with IBD don’t understand & think it’s easy just feed a vet diet & the dog will get better, IBD is an awful disease, some ingredients can cause bad wind/gas & dirrahea, all these pet food companies are adding Lentils & Garbanzo beans (Chickpeas) to their pet foods is cause Lentils/chickpeas are high in protein so this puts the protein % up higher so pet food companies are adding & using cheap Lentils & Chickpeas now to their pet foods, when we read the Protein % on a kibble bag it doesnt say meat protein % or plant protein % separately, the protein % & is both meat & plant protein & people see a high protein % & think its all meat protein but it isnt..

“Earthborn Holistic” have a new formula out called Venture, Rabbit Meal & Pumkin, EH write the protein % from peas, meat & pumkin, in Earthborn Holistic Venture Rabbit Meal & Pumkin formula it says Pea Protein-37% Pumkin Protein-18% Rabbit Meal Protein-40% the only problem with Earthborn Holistic Venture formula’s the fiber is very high around 8-9%, have you worked out does Furby do better on less fiber or more fiber in his diet?? my Patch needs less fiber & Lentils & Chickpeas are very high in fiber….
I wouldn’t worry if the protein is low & is under 25% & that the Sweet Potatoes is first ingredient we have sick dogs just finding a kibble that works is a miracle, I’d try the “Natural Balance” Sweet Potato & Bison formula first it has teh least ingredients or there’s the “Californian Natural” Chicken Meal & Rice if you dont want to feed teh Lamb Meal & Rice they both have only 3 ingredients, I’ve read alot of people saying their IBD dog is doing really well eating the Natural Balance LID formula’s, then once Furby is doing well you can slowly start adding more fresh cooked meat to his diet, Patch does best on kibbles that have low Kcals Per cup under 360Kcals per cup when he’s eating a kibble that is higher then 380Kcals per cup & higher in Protein after a few days he starts his whinging, crying & lifts his right paw up for me to rub his pancreas/stomach area so I’ve been only feeding him kibbles now that are under 360Kcals per cup now & under 25% in protein, it’s Summer at the moment in Australian & he always doesnt do too well thru the Summer months cause of his environment allergies…..Patch stopped eating the TOTW Lamb formula when we moved, so I saw that as a sign & he was telling me mum I dont like this TOTW no more, TOTW Pacific Stream & their High Paraire formula’s tested very high in Toxins back in August when all the popular dog foods were tested so maybe thats why Patch stopped eating the TOTW also TOTW have changed something in their Sierra Mountain formula, it smells different & the kibble size is smaller, small kibble is a good thing but something is different & Patch kept eating grass after eating his TOTW, so now Im feeding him the “Nutro Essentials” Lamb & Rice formula at the moment
it has Lamb, Ground Rice, Rice Flour, Grounded Sorghum, Chicken Fat, I’d rather be feeding him Nutro Grain free, Lamb, lentils & Sweet Potato formula but I know if I feed the thwe better formula we will be up every night 11pm 1am 3am 5am with him with wind pain, diarrhea & him looking for grass, Kangaroo is a good novel protein low in fat BUT Kangaroo is a very rich meat & all the pet foods companies can’t afford to use Kangaroo so they add Lentils, Chickpeas to up the protein % Zignature does it, Zignature Kangaroo formula is very high in Red & Green lentils, then when people dogs start having Diarrhea people think its the kangaroo meat but its the high about of Lentils or Chickpeas the pet food companies have added to their Kangaroo formula, here in Australia Kangroo is in our supermarket cheap pet foods the same with Horse meat, yrs & yrs ago horses were used in Pet Foods now you dont see horse meat in pet foods anymore a few people who have dogs with IBD use horse meat & their dogs are doing really well but I would try adding a carb as well with the horse meat, Furby mighten get diarrhea the Kangaroo protein might be too high for him to handle….

[Fanette R]

Thanks you so much for all those info Susan, it really helps.
We have felt very lost and alone since Furby got diagnosed, everything is getting so confusing. I’ll for sure check ou the IBD groups you’re talking about!

Ok so I’m definitely not gonna put him on the Royal Canin diet. I was very concerned already, when my vet said “well, those kibbles are actually high in fat so, because furby suffered from pancreatitis in the past, we should do a blood test right now and one in 3 weeks to see if it is ok for him”… This is again something that would cost me a lot of money and that would be painful for Furby…

Ok so I’ve just spent an hour looking through a few brands.
I was actually considering “Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain” ’cause I heard good things for dogs with IBD. I just have two concerns, maybe you can help me out with this.
1. I see there is lentils il the ingredients, but you said I should stay away from lentils for Furby, right?
2. I’m seeing that the protein for those kibbles are “lamb”. Furby was on frain free, lamb hypoallergenic protein for 3 years, we just took him out of it a few months ago, as he got diagnoste for IBD. I must say I’m not sure that this protein affected him and caused him IBD because he got IBD 3 years after starting those kibbles, but I’m still wondering if I shouldn’t go maybe for another protein?

Beside Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain, I’ve found this :
– California Natural : Herring & Sweet Potaoe recipe : http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/1201
– Natural Balance Limited Ingredients :
Sweet Potatoe & Bison : https://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog-formulas/dry/limited-ingredient-diets/sweet-potato-and-bison
Sweet Potatoe & Fish : https://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog-formulas/dry/limited-ingredient-diets/sweet-potato-and-fish
Sweet Potatoe & Venison : https://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog-formulas/dry/limited-ingredient-diets/sweet-potato-and-venison
– The Honest Kitchen : Limited Ingredient Turkey & Parsnip : https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/marvel

What do you think of those? Is there one that could feet better a dog with IBD?
Also, Is that ok if, in the natural balance recipes, sweet potatoe is the first ingredient? I always heard that meat should be the first ingredient.

Hopefully you can help me out a little bit more 🙂
And no I haven’t tried boiled potato with Furby’s wet food, I’ll try that and see if it helps! Thanks!

[Susan]

Hi Fanette,
I also have a rescue dog Patch he is 9yrs old now, he was diagnosed with with IBD 5yrs ago he was diagnosed thru Biopsies, Patch also has had Pancreatitis when he was eating Royal Canine, Hypoallergenic HP vet diet, the fat was way too high at 19% sometimes these vet just say “here feed this vet diet or feed that vet diet”, and our poor dogs are guinea pigs & the vet see if the vet diet works, great if the vet diet works or vet diet food doesnt help then our poor dog gets worse, no vet diets have ever helped Patches IBD if anything he got worse, “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb dry kibble was the first dry kibble that helped firm Patches poos up & made his itchy skin better, I have to rotate Patches foods now, when he first starts a new foods he seems to go good then after 1-2 months he goes down hill again so I change what I’m feeding him, I have found when you feed Sweet Potato & Potato to dogs with IBD they seem to do better & do firm poos…
Do NOT feed any kibbles or wet canned foods that have Lentils, Chickpeas (Garbanzo Beans) as these ingredients can irratate the bowel & cause bad WIND/GAS pain… have you tried adding boiled white potato to the wet canned horse food?? this is what I do as Patch can’t eat wet canned foods either especially if it has boiled rice in it the boiled rice irratates his bowel, I boil 1 potato in small pieces & put in a container & keep in the fridge I add about 2 spoons of the mashed potato with 1/2 a canned wet tin food for breakfast, I also buy canned Australian Tuna in Spring Water add boiled Potato for lunch…
Look for kibbles that have limited ingredients & have Sweet potato or Potato there’s “Natural Balance” Sweet Potato & Fish & Sweet Potato & Duck the fat is 10% here’s the Natural Balance site read thru all the formula’s as some fomula’s have pea protein.. https://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog-formulas/special-category-limited-ingredient-diets
Have you jpined any Canine IBD Groups? there’s IBDOGS” on Yahoo & theres a few Canine IBD groups on face book the people in these groups are going thru the same as you & your dog… Just make sure when you do try something new only give 1 new thing at 1 time over a 1-2 week period so if it doesn’t agree with Furby you will know what is causing the problem, just becare as you have reduced Furbys medications & gotten so far you can fed him a kibble that will cause an IBD flare & he’ll be back on high doses of steriods again, Good Luck & keep us informed with what’s happening with Furby please try the boiled Potato with his horse meat, it will firm up his poo’s..

[Fanette R]

Hello,

Thanks for the answer!
I wasn’t saying Royal Canin was a bad brand, I was just sceptical about the composition for this specific dry food, “anallergenic”, especially because my dog also had pancreatitis and that there is a lot of fat in this dry food.
But yes, for sure I’m working on it with my vet very closely, I realized it might not have been clear on my message, sorry about that! I’m very close to my vet actually, I was just looking for advices with food, but never against my vet’s opinion 🙂

Thank you for the link you sent me, I’ll check that out! This is very true that you can read everything and anything on the internet, that’s also why I wanted to ask here and see what answers I’ll get 🙂

[anonymous]

More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets

Please read the above article and others on that blog.
Royal Canin is a good company, please work closely with your vet for best results.
There is a lot of misinformation on the internet.
Beware of homeopathic sites and miracle cures, you can make things much worse.

[pitlove]

haleycookie-

I’m sure you’ve figured out by now that we are going to ask for links to credible research (published papers, studies, peer reviewed articles etc) when such statements are presented like “kidney disease is on the rise in cats..” “cats dying from kidney failure more than any other illness” “that is because of garbage kibble people are told to buy”. Whats interesting is, you likely can’t produce any of this information because studies done in cats are few and far between. Why do you think we can’t easily diagnose and treat heartworm disease in cats even though some 50% or more of the cat population (indoor and outdoor) are HW+? So I’ll ask you then, where do you get your information from? It doesn’t seem to have any basis besides someones opinion you’ve likely read on facebook etc.

[anonymous]

I think prescription food/therapeutic diet would be best, as your vet has recommended.
Otherwise, ask your vet if this will meet your criteria?
https://www.k9ofmine.com/best-low-sodium-dog-food/ excerpt below
Purina Pro Plan Focus Sensitive Skin & Stomach Salmon & Rice Formula
About: Pro Plan Focus is a salmon-and-rice-based recipe that is designed for dogs with stomach sensitivities or food allergies. Salmon and rice are typically not allergens and most dogs are able to digest this food easily.
Price: $$
Features:
Salmon is the first listed ingredient.
Made with antioxidant-rich ingredients to help promote immune system function
Fortified with omega fatty acids to ensure joint, skin and coat health
Made without any artificial colors, artificial flavors, corn, wheat or soy
PROS: Purina Pro Plan Focus has the least sodium per calorie of any of the five foods recommended here. Most dogs appear to love the taste, and it may also provide some relief from food allergies.
CONS: Additionally, Pro Plan is made without any probiotics to help regulate intestinal function; however, it does include prebiotic ingredients, which can help support any beneficial bacteria already present in your dog’s digestive tract.
Ingredients:
Salmon, Canola Meal, Brewers Rice, Barley, Oat Meal, Fish Meal (Source of Glucosamine), Animal Fat Preserved with Mixed-Tocopherols, Salmon Meal, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Natural Flavor, Inulin, Fish Oil, Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite. J-4449.
Sodium Content:
50 milligrams / 100 Calories

[Rose G]

We’ve had a Rottweiler who initially was fed whatever my husband (single at the time) fed him…crazy stuff Probably dog chow and table scraps and he lived for 16 years. He died of, we believe diabetes.

A Brussels griffen, who also ate dog kibble for the most part but was also growing up at the point that people where not paying as much attention and the melanmie issue came up. Then we switched to better dog food, probably higher protein the last 5 years of his life. He only lived for 10 years and died of liver cancer.

A Brittany, who was also fed similarly to the brussels griffen and we just had to put her down in July because of cushing disease, she had also gone blind a year prior. She was 12.

I keep reading and reading about dog food and get so confused…raw/high protein/low protein/no grains/with grains…it is overwhelming to try and figure out what is best for my dogs healthy life. We now have a 5 year old/45 lb shepherd mix and an 8 lb 2 year old mix of some sort of shitzu/brussels…truly Heinz 57.

[Marie Y]

Rose,
here’s the dosing I got online that seems to be working great for me:

Until stones are dissolved (if he has stones)-2 times daily, 1-700mg tablet for every 25 # of body weight. my dog is 15 # so I only used 1 700mg tablet per dose
After stones are dissolved-for 1 month 2 times a day 1 tablet
After 1 month-same dose but every other day for 2 weeks
After 2 weeks-same dose 3 times a week and alternate the weeks (give it one week then not the next then give it again)
Then daily for one week,
Then nothing for 3-5 weeks ( went 4, right in the middle)
Then do it for one week every 5 weeks, which is where I’m at right now. So every fifth week he gets a tablet split into two daily meals for one week.
I know it’s confusing but just reread it as needed! lol.

I also make his food at home and it’s much cheaper than buying canned and I know pretty much what’s going into it.I add digestive enzymes, and calcuim citrate as it binds oxalates. I use just a short 1/8th tsp per meal of that. Sometimes I add a sm amt of magnesuim but I’m not always good at getting it in and also glucosamine.
My problem is getting him to drink so I add at least 1/2 cup of water to every meal. I try to make it 3/4 if I can. Tried to do an entire cup but he refused to eat! Good luck! If there’s anything I can do to help please let me know. I’m not a professional just someone who’s done some research and finally found something that’s working.

[Steve M]

I’ve read where curcumin and ? help fight cancer in humans. I’m trying it presently.

[aimee]

I received the lab report on the Salmon No Hide chews. This was done at a veterinary diagnostic lab by a forensic pathologist. The sample was submitted by my dog’s veterinarian. The lab rehydrated the chew in deionized water. The pink coating is described as gelatinous and friable which floated within the water. The chew itself described as tough and not able to be manually torn or pulled apart. The white/tan chew material was processed separately from the pink coating material

The coating material is described as having no distinct organization and an accumulation of eosinophilic strands. “The strands of material occasionally have multiple nuclei along the periphery and rarely cross striations are observed ( consistent with skeletal muscle) The myocytes [muscle cells] vary in diameter…….There are numerous aggregates that are clear ………….and brown crystalline structures within the material”

Comments: “The filling material appears to be a mixture of animal product (identification of skeletal muscle) mixed with a filler product( plant based material?)”

For the chew itself: “The material appears to be composed of streams of eosinophilic material( no observable nuclei) with relatively distinct margins. This material is birefringent using polarized light.” I didn’t know what that last sentence meant and looked it up. I found that it is a measure of symmetry and is a reported characteristic of collagen.
Comments: “The majority of the rolled product appears to be composed of collagen like material”

I found this interesting not only for what it says but for what it doesn’t say. The company describes the chew as being high muscle content ” meat is an essential part of the “dough” portion of the No-Hide” and ” The wild caught salmon has been carefully hand-rolled, cooked, and uniquely dried for a one of a kind chew your dog will love!” yet no muscle tissue was found on microscopic examination of the chew, only in the coating. Additionally, the chew had been described as being made of rice vegetable gelatin, oil and eggs with the protein added but no description of plant based products intermixed with animal based in the chew description ..only in the coating description. The chew is uniformly composed of collagen-like material.

Rawhide is the dermis of the skin which is a mat of collagen fibers. The pathology of this No Hide chew is consistent with dermis.

So what next.. I’ve already got hundreds invested into this and I’m going to take it farther. I’ll send out a labeled rawhide chew and have it processed as the No Hide was so a direct comparison can be made. Then depending on cost have specialized stains run.

Right now to my eye this forensic pathology report is consistent with this product being rawhide.

[Dharlee]

I wasn’t at all stressed by the information. I was stressed by the thought of feathers being given to my dog, but then I have to say much more so by his reaction to my “good intentions” in switching him to a “healthy” diet. I know ultimately I caused all this. But it certainly wasn’t what I thought would happen.

I talked at length with her about him and while he was there he had fluids given to him and an injection for his inflamed behind. He came home and ate Ultamino which I will keep him on and see what happens. I slept more than a solid hour for the first time in days last night. I just got up with him to go outside and already there is a little improvement.

I don’t blame anyone for trying to do what is best for their dog. I don’t blame anyone for sharing their opinion, as a matter of fact I value them all and this thread helped me to make an informed decision.

I also had my faith in my vet reaffirmed a great deal. She doesn’t just care for Scruffy professionally. She cares for him emotionally and that means so much to me. He is a great little guy who loves everyone and everyone who meets him can’t him but be won by his charm. She’s no exception. I am grateful for her, and for each person here who took the time to help us. You’ll never know what it has meant. Thank you so much!!

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by Dharlee.

[aimee]

Hi GSDsForever,

Glad you find my posts informative. Happy to explain. I was going to post that Ultamino is Anallergenic renamed but you beat me to it.

There is hydrolyzed and then there is hydrolyzed… So yes there are several hydrolyzed diets being made. In all of the them the proteins are broken down to shorter Amino Acid strings. So for say Hill’s ZD they report ~ 3000 daltons which is about 27 Amino acid length. Purina’s HA product 12,200 daltons ~ 111 Amino Acid length chains

When tested 25% of patients reacted to the hydrolyzed version of the protein in the diet if that was their trigger protein

With Ultamino 88% of the Amino Acids are as a single Amino acid and 95% less than 1000 daltons or ~ 9 amino acids. Reaction at his level can’t occur… but there still is that 5% over 9 AA.. are any of those chains long enough to cross bridge and cause a reaction. Never say never but pretty darn unlikely.

So for Ultiamino far less likely to get a reaction to the hydrolyzed form but also what I’ve heard is that the diet is great for GI problems as the AA are all separated ready and waiting to be absorbed : )

Hope that helps explain why Ultiamino is unique.

[GSDsForever]

Here is more information on the product, in case it is useful to Dharlee (Deborah) and others:

In this 16.9% protein/14.5% fat/4.2% fiber 313 cal/Cup food . . . .

*The official AAFCO definition of “hydrolyzed poultry byproducts aggregate” includes “such parts as heads, feet, undeveloped eggs, intestines, feathers, and blood.” These may be “fermented” in manufacturing.

*Royal Canin uses exclusively hydrolyzed bird feathers for “hydrolyzed poultry byproducts.”

*The feathers RC uses are exclusively from chickens (as I noted above).

*Compliant with the AAFCO defintion or the term “hydrolyzed poultry byproducts aggregate,” Royal Canin sources from slaughtered birds, “clean and undecomposed.”

*Royal Canin does not source from any 4 D animals (dead, dying, diseased, disabled).

*The #1 ingredient is corn starch. Royal Canin does not discriminate in sourcing whether corn is GMO Round Up Ready. As corn is now over 92% GMO (U.S.) if it is not labelled non-GMO (such as Non-GMO Project Verified) or organic certified, it is most likely GMO Round Up Ready sourced.

*Coconut oil used is refined (for allergy purposes).

*The #4 ingredient is soybean oil. Royal Canin does not discriminate in sourcing whether the soybean oil is from GMO Round Up Ready soybeans. As more than 94% of soybeans are now GMO if not labelled non-GMO (such as Non-GMO Project Verified) or organic certified, it is most likely GMO Round Up Ready sourced. The soybean oil is refined (for allergy purposes)

*The fish oil (#13 ingredient) used is exclusively from wild caught anchovies.

*Royal Canin uses veterinary nutritionists, who are all located in France.

Source: phone call to Royal Canin

****At the time I called, information was not available how the oils were processed (i.e. via hexane solvent bath vs expeller extracted), how they were refined, and whether they were chemically deodorized or heat treated. I did not ask what RC uses for its “natural flavors” (#5 ingredient). I did not ask in this call further processing information, i.e. what temperature the food is cooked at or for how long, etc.

[Dharlee]

Hi guys,

Firstly, I want to apologize for any confusion about my name change. My name is actually Debbie, but I am known as Dharlee- my nickname. I just figured out how to change my profile. But I don’t care what anyone calls me, I just wanted to let you know.

Now, I have read everything and I am going to call my vet tomorrow. I do love my vet. I am handicapped and she works with me in crazy ways to get to see him. She also really loves him. She’s been his vet almost all his life and found his Intervertebral Disk Disease and we’ve known he had places that could be a problem with that again all his life. She helped him through it and has been in his corner always. Yes, she is insistent about some things, but only because she cares. I can’t fault her for that at all.

I am worried at this point more about the apoquel more than the food. I took him off of that and he’s better but not out of the woods yet. He still has diarrhea but nowhere nearly as bad. And he’s eating and drinking so that’s good.

Someone said he’s old and sick. If you knew him you’d laugh at that. He might be almost 11 but he acts like a puppy. He never walks, he runs or trots. If I had one word to describe him it would be joyful. He plays and loves life. He loves everyone around him and gets highly insulted if someone doesn’t pet him. Sorry to go on but Scruffy is the light of my life and all who meet him fall in love with him.

After I talk to her I will update here. At this point I just want him better than he was.

Your comments meant the world to me. Each of you took so much time to say things that were helpful and honest. And I know you all have animals that you love dearly so I know you have only his well being in your hearts. I have read and bookmarked much of this information. I feel very lucky to have found such a kind and caring community of people with whom to talk and share. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[aimee]

Hi Deborah M,

My heart goes out to you and your dog. In some ways your story reminds me so much of a friend of mine. Her dog was suffering from multiple issues, projectile vomiting and watery diarrhea, skin issues and shifting leg lameness. Her vet recommended RC hydrolyzed soy. There was no way she was going to feed that. We agreed to disagree on the topic.

For years I watched this dog suffer and always supported her when the dog was going through a tough bout. She tried one food after another “researching” at sites like this. And she suffered to.. not only because her dog was sick but because her dog had gone through cancer treatment and she always feared “IT” was back and causing the signs. So she repeatedly had full cancer works ups done trying to find “IT” and she’d be both relieved that IT wasn’t found and feared IT was there and no one could find IT. She was having anxiety issues.

Exhausted, she went back to her vet and asking for help there had to be something else and her vet gave her that same recommended she heard before. So off she went again to another specialist ….and he gave her the same recommendation. Not having anyplace else to turn she fed the dreaded food….and everything resolved. The vomiting and diarrhea stopped, the shifting limb lameness stopped, and the skin cleared. She was dumbfounded how could it possibly be. It went against everything she learned through her research. And she asked me how could it be possible. I told her the body doesn’t care where the amino acid used to be it only cares that it has it the amino acid in a form that can be absorbed and used.

In regards to Ultamino there is no other diet like it. It is a unique one of a kind product as the “protein” isn’t protein at all. Really the diet is technically protein free as the amino acids are all individual or groups of 2-3 amino acids. It is digested protein in that sense. It is what is used in neonatel formula for preemies whose tracts aren’t able to digest protein. RC told me that their source of Amino Acids is the same source as used in neonatel formula, it comes from, as I recall, Switzerland and yes in both incidents those amino acids used to be connected to many others that once made a feather shaft.. There is no feather meal in ultamino…. there are AA in ultamino that used to make up feathers.

My friend was at her wits end.. so she fed the diet she said she’d never feed and her dog’s medical problems resolved.. You are at your wits end… maybe like my friend it is time to take the vet’ s advice.

[Susan]

Hi Deborah M,
I really understand how you’re feeling & I know what you’re going thru, I took on this dog & I was just his foster carer, I had to take him to vet get him desexed vaccinated meds for all his sores that were around his neck & legs from being tied up then he has his photo put on the Rescue site & adopted out, his name was Patch & he just turned 4yr old in very bad condition, I’ve never seen a rescue dog this bad before I think he wasnt Put To Sleep cause he became the pound favorite, there’s always a few pound favorites, the people who work or volunteer at the pound do everything to get them a home or into rescue before their kill day so they called me (cause they know I love Staffys) to fix him all up & adopt him out but as the days went by he was weeing blood, so off to see the rescue vet, she said looks like he was being used for breeding, so he gets put on vet diet for 6 weeks to dissolve his crystals then he is diagnosed with IBD & Helicobacter-Pylori, Skin Allergies & Food Sensitivities, In the end I adopted him myself, I felt all the people that came out to meet & greet him weren’t listening to me when I said “but he’s sick, he has a few health problems” they’d all say, “Oh he seems fine he’s really happy, he doesnt look sick”, I couldnt handle not knowing whoever adopts him would they continue with his meds etc or would they just give up on him like his old owners did & surrender him back to a pound & he’ll continue to suffer, he just turned 9yrs old last week & it’s been a very hard 5 yrs & the money I’ve spent trying to fix Patch, I even stopped doing rescue for a few years when he was real bad & sick, I couldn’t leave him at home while I was out helping other dogs all day & worrying about him, he does not do well on ANY vet diets they give him bad acid reflux, make his skin itch & smell yeasty cause he has food sensitivities to some grains, gluten corm/maize & beet pulp, he can NOT have any Beet Pulp he gets bad acid reflux, all these things that are suppose to fix & help his stomach & bowel make Patch worse, then finally I started looking for other diets beside these vet diets & FINALLY after trying a few kibbles, I found “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb dry kibble, people in the IBD & EPI face book groups were saying how well their dogs were doing on TOTW Sierra Mountain or TOTW Pacific Stream both are lower in fiber & TOTW uses Purified water, the Sierra Mountain formula just has 1 single meat protein Lamb, has Sweet Potatoes, Potatoes, that firm his poo’s up & his acid reflux stopped & his skin all cleared up, cause he wasn’t eating a diet that had ingredients he was sensitive too but he still get his seasonal environment allergies in Spring/Summer so I have to bathed him weekly in Spring/Summer in “Malaseb” medicated shampoo to wash off any allergens on his paws & skin, the Malaseb shampoo realives & stops his itchy skin…. I’ve never found a kibble that helped most of his health problems all at once, a few years ago I started rotating his kibbles between a few different brands kibbles he does well on, I was feeding the Lamb TOTW thru the winter months then a Salmon fish kibble thru the Spring/Summer months but then I seen 2 studies a company thet test dog foods for 130 metals toxins & contaminates alot of these fish kibbles were very high in toxins, so now I prefer to add a tin salmon to his diet instead, for breakfast he gets his TOTW, lunch time he either gets a small cooked meal with 1 spoon salmon or 1/3 cup of “Canidae Pure Meadow”or an Australian salmon kibble, then dinner time he gets his TOTW Lamb again then he gets another small meal 1/3 a cup 8pm so he doesnt wake up early hours of the morning with acid reflux, whenever I try something new if it says add 1 teaspoon then I only add 1/8th a teaspoon & slowley introduce to his diet, I’ve learnt I ned to slowly add any new supplements or kibbles to his diet or I’m up 12am, 3am 5am & poor Patch has diarrhea….

I found Homeopathy, natural healthy foods works the best for Patch & other sick rescue dogs I’ve helped over the years, you’ll be surprised how feeding a simple bland lean cooked meal like turkey, tin Salmon or chicken breast, lean beef, I feed lean pork mince or lean beef mince I make rissoles with boiled Sweet Potato or boiled potato can make a big difference & is heaps better then these dry kibbles, then I slowly start adding 1 teaspoon of tin Salmon in spring water to the cooked meal, just feed 1 small cooked meal & still feed his normal limited ingredient dry kibble for his other meals or if he’s eating a cooked meal already start buying tin Salmon in spring water then drain water put in air tight container & add teaspoon of salmon to the cooked meals, I also buy “K-9 Natural green lipped mussels freeze dried & Patch started with just 1 mussel as a treat around 11am daily now he gets 2 mussels as a treat daily, Mussels are very healthy & help balance their diet,
here’s a link on Mussels https://drsarahbrewer.com/supplements/green-lipped-mussels-health-benefits
are you following “Rodney Habib”on his face book page, he has really good info also follow “Judy Morgan DVM” https://www.facebook.com/JudyMorganDVM/ click on her Video link look for her “Pancreatitis Diet” & her “IBD IBS Diet” video’s, you can leave out the ingredients you dont want to feed & what I did was just start with 1 lean meat protein mince grounded meat & 1 carb then after I saw Patch was OK I started to add 1 new ingredient egg, then another new ingredient broccoli etc, I make 1/2 cup size rissole balls & bake in oven & boil sweet potatos & freeze in sections & take out the day before, Judy has a 16 yr old dog called Scout, he has a few health problems, she cooks for him & her other sick elderly dogs, Judy shows you how to balance the diet with healthy ingredients, I don’t bother balancing every single meal, I just make sure he’s getting his Omega 3 fatty acids for his skin & stomach, the Dinovite would be very high in Omega’s for the dogs skin my Patch can’t take fish oil or fish oil in kibbles he gets bad acid reflux, so I supplement his omega fatty acids thru foods instead, I add salmon, freeze dried mussels, roasted Almonds a treats I bite & eat 1/2 a almond & Patch gets the other 1/2 of the almond just start off slowly just give 1/2 a almond for 1 week see how he goes, they need 3 almonds a day, read the link I posted above, the health benefits from freeze dried mussels for skin, stomach, joints, brain etc

Have you tried “4Health” Special Care, Sensitive Skin, it has Hydrolyzed Salmon or
“4Health” Special Care, Sensitive Stomach it has just Potato & Egg as only ingredients 4health is sold at Tractor Supply shops only, it’s worth trying a small bag & ask is it money back guaranted if my dog wont eat it?? I always just say Patch wont eat a kibble when he gets his diarrhea & I need to take back the kibble its easier….
You know your dog best so do what you feel will works best for your boy… Good Luck

[GSDsForever]

Wow, lot of sharply divergent information, strong opinions, values, and emotions in this thread!

I really feel for you Deborah. I can tell 100% that you love your dog very much, have been through and still are going through a lot, want and try to to the right thing — and wish to be respectful of your vet and others here & elsewhere.

If I met you in person, I’d really love to sit down and just talk it through supportively.

There’s so much in this thread to comment on. I’m going to presume, benefit of the doubt, that even where we disagree, that all here intend to be respectful and are motivated by sincere belief that they are giving you the best advice for your dog to be well. I wish to do the same.

1)I don’t like/believe in/recommend Dynovite. I just don’t think it’s this amazing product or expenditure to accomplish what you/others want. I think it’s a gimmicky & an overhyped, overpriced product that is very trendy, convenient, readily available, & well-marketed to take advantage of people and their pets.

I would eliminate it and start from scratch with a quality food. Supplement as needed.

2)Royal Canin Ultamino — aka the hydrolyzed bird feathers food

I 100% hear you & support you, agree with not wanting to feed this food. That SHOULD be okay. Honestly. Why? Because there absolutely are alternatives to it and the science/feeding strategy behind it is NOT unique on the market.

Here’s the thing: a diet of hydrolyzed protein + very limited other ingredients, starch (no protein allergen), pure fats IS hypoallergenic, meaning LESS likely to trigger allergic food responses and/or food intolerance reactions. So that *type* of diet recommendation from a vet is a valid one.

That said, THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL OR NECESSARY OR BENEFICIAL about feeding specifically bird feathers or “poultry byproducts aggregate” as the protein source. It’s the hydrolyzed aspect of the protein ingredient that is key to hypoallergenic status. If your vet did not explain it well to you, food allergens are proteins, and a hydrolyzed ingredient has the protein (the allergen) broken down into much smaller components that are less likely to trigger the body’s recognition of the ingredient and allergic response.

Other hydrolyzed diets, besides this one, may be fed. Other equally good options for feeding allergic dogs include limited protein, limited ingredient diets that exclude what your dog is allergic to if that is known or strongly suspected.

Sometimes this is rather simple. In a dog that has eaten the same diet of chicken its whole life, for example, merely switching to a fish based food can work. When a variety of foods have been fed, with no relief/allergies continued, a novel protein limited ingredient diet is fed. “Novel” here simply means whatever YOUR dog has not had before, not anyone else’s. It is critical here that the diet you select has pristine quality control, takes rigorous steps in manufacturing or home preparation, to avoid cross-contaminating the diet with ingredients not listed on the label. Especially when it is not known what all your dog has been exposed to and may be allergic to, it may be best to to avoid the current known top allergens for dogs: chicken, beef, eggs, dairy, soy, wheat, corn — and now also fish, lamb (after these have become no longer “alternative” foods but commonplace to feed). For dogs that have been exposed to everything under the sun, a really unusual protein can be used (e.g. kangaroo, if elk/venison has been fed).

A word of caution regarding OTC kibbles, cans, dehydrated/etc. products: In an OTC product vs alternatives of vet prescription commercial diets or homemade, you need to do your homework — research the food and ask pointed questions of the manufacturer and consider the actual plant that makes the food. Most people don’t do this, aren’t aware of the problem (trust the label too much) and many OTC commercial foods, including so-called limited ingredient diets, fail such cross-contamination quality control and therefore fail to provide relief (because the allergen is still being fed but not listed on the label). For a severely and genuinely allergic dog, this can be a nightmare — as tiny amounts can trigger the allergic response.

I do find it odd — and perhaps I am missing something here — that your vet is proposing and insisting (as you say) upon this one food. That doesn’t make sense to me — not on any scientific, research & evidence, best practices basis — purely from what you’ve said here.

What if this food stopped being manufactured tomorrow? What if it were recalled and therefore could not be recommended (temporarily)? What if your dog hated it and refused to eat it?

Surely there are other foods you could purchase to accomplish the medical goals here. Surely you could also feed an appropriate homemade/home prepared diet. This leads me to my next part . . . .

3)Vet-Client Relationship and Recommendations

A good veterinarian-client relationship is one of mutual respect and two-way dialogue. That dialogue includes both sides considering and addressing what the other is saying. Both sides may raise valid points that are worthy of consideration, understanding, discussion.

This means mutually asking and answering questions as necessary and respectfully, patiently making decisions TOGETHER in the best interest of the dog. Basing decisions upon careful consideration of facts and evidence, where things are explained and understood, still involves two way discussion. Some respect for the *values* of the pet owner, should be accorded by one’s vet, not to mention any actual fact based knowledge that a pet owner may have.

As an example, I have expressed to my vet(s) that, aside from concerns about ingredient/formulation quality, I am not comfortable on ethical grounds (including documented animal cruelty discovered in feeding trials) in supporting a particular major dog food manufacturer. Both vets (over the years) I expressed this to were very respectful and open to alternatives selected together. One vet shared that she did not know about the issue and asked me further about it because it disturbed her too. (Vets are busy and, like all people, don’t hear about/read everything and miss things.)

Similarly, my vet and I *discussed*, *considered* Apoquel (which you said you use) and Atopica for severe, unrelenting allergies and I ultimately rejected both after researching them. He was fully respectful of that. He never was pushy about either or any other course of action proposed. Later, when Cytopoint was recommended, I did choose to use this (again based on my research and discussion with the vet/vet staff) and have had great results.

I appreciate that you like your vet otherwise, find her to be “nice.” But it sounds like more two-way discussion should be happening and alternatives considered.

Conversely, as with human doctors, I strongly believe it is important that people see a vet that they trust — and then proceed to trust in what they say. By this I mean not that clients simply blindly and without discussion automatically do every single thing that their vet suggests or recommends, but that they seriously consider and respectfully attend to their recommendations, ask questions, try to understand, and reach good decisions TOGETHER. It’s a better course of action to propose major changes to one’s vet first, consider what she has to say & discuss, then take action than the other way around.

If a client cannot trust her vet (or human doctor) or cannot have full, open discussion with them, then why would that client see that vet (or human doctor). And yet I know many people who do exactly this — and it is probably a frustrating experience for both sides.

I see this come up, with dog owners I talk to, with vaccination schedules, heartworm prevention, and diet (including especially raw or homemade diets). And yet all of those topics are important and ones I expect to be able to discuss openly with my vet in full — and I do. If I can do it, you can do it.

Without being there, since you like your vet, it sounds to me *possibly* that either more time needs to be spent with you on this topic or you might need to be more assertive, vocal yourself and ask questions — ask why just this food, what are alternatives, what about this or that food (why or why not), what about a trial on a different one, what about a homemade vet supervised diet (using a consult service w/veterinary nutritionist if necessary), and be just as persistent as she has been. Get the answers you need to make the best decision for your pet, based on multiple options and good information.

***IF*** you’re just going to your vet because she’s close by, out of habit/length of time seeing her with your pet and hesitant/uncomfortable leaving her for a new one, because she’s “nice” (even caring), but are NOT ultimately getting what you need from her medically — are not able to have a full & open discussion with her, have all your questions & concerns addressed, receive alternatives and options — then I would see a different vet.

4)If your dog has more food intolerances, GI reactions to overall formulations, like too rich, etc., a sensitive digestive system more so than actual allergies, then there are foods very good for that that I would explore. These differ somewhat from strict allergy diets. Was your dog diagnosed with allergies or just sensitive tummy/touchy digestive system or food intolerances? Was a specialist consulted by your vet?

Some foods appropriate to sensitive digestive systems are just bland and very moderate, conservative in overall nutrition profile/guaranteed analysis, and low residue (meaning highly digested and low poop).

I’ve known people to switch from diets marketed explicitly for this purpose, prescribed even, to Fromm’s (and Fromm is a great company, with an excellent longterm record of quality control) Whitefish formula and it’s been exceptionally well tolerated by their dogs. It’s bland, not rich, and has quality ingredients. That’s just one example. There are other choices. Wellness Simple and Nutrisource come to mind, also Go! Sensitivity and Shine.

5)Homemade diets

If this interests you, your vet should be helping you and supportive, as it can be done.

Your vet should be able to provide a free, published balanced diet appropriate to your dog’s needs/condition, minimally consult (sometimes this is free) with a specialist colleague, OR full blown consult (for a fee) or outright refer you to go see a specialist in nutrition who will design you a diet or multiple meals you can safely feed.

Similarly, regarding that itchy skin/allergies, your vet can consult and discuss a case — often for free — with a veterinary dermatologist (specialist) or outright refer you to see one. Has your vet done this? If not, why not? If you have reached the point that you are trying so many diets, things, experienced such a range of symptoms over time, dog taking Apoquel, your vet insisting upon RC Ultamino now, consulting/referral would conform to best practices.

If money is really tight and you don’t have dog insurance (or coverage), there are both free board certified veterinary nutritionist/other credentialed authored single diets available on the web as well as one entire book of therapeutic veterinary diets (from UC Davis) now freely available on the web.

Personally, if you want to go the route of an actual veterinary nutritionist helping your dog, I would recommend (for many reasons) a long distance consult with board certified veterinary nutritionist Susan Wynn (unless you are in Atlanta, in which case you can see her in person). It’s about $300. She will consult with generalist vets long distance, which not all veterinary nutritionists will do.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by GSDsForever.

[Lori H]

Hi Deborah,

My dog Buddy has been through a lot, much like your dog. He just turned 10 and during his life he has had surgery on his spleen, surgery for bladder stones, been diagnosed with Diabetes and I was told by my vet that he was suffering from liver failure and was preparing me for the fact that Buddy was going to die. The liver failure diagnosis was 6 months ago and today, he is healthy, happy, looks amazing and has so much energy.

I now believe wholeheartedly that most vets know nothing about nutrition. They are told to carry a line of food in their offices by one of the large pharma/dog food companies because most of these companies go out and recruit at the vet universities across the United States when vets are in school and provide them with a kickback when the sell either Science Diet or Royal Canin in their clinics, up to 40%. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my vet, I just don’t believe he knows much of anything about nutrition. He has been great to me, my dog Buddy and my three cats. He is good at what he does, diagnose and perform much needed surgeries and procedures. He did Buddy’s bladder stone surgery which has complications.

I was at my wits end as well and thought that I was going to lose Buddy, but I was not willing to give up so I did a Google search and found an amazing person who brought Buddy back to the healthy dog he is.

Buddy is on a very special diet and he has made huge strides in the last 6+ months. He is a very healthy dog to what he was 6 months ago.

I worked with a man named Rick Scheyer. He has an amazing website http://www.doglivershunt.com He has helped many dogs with liver shunt, kidney disease, bladder stone problems and much, much more become healthy dogs again. I would suggest reaching out to him for a free consultation.

If you choose to go with his program, it is not cheap, but I believe that over time, I will save money by not taking Buddy to the vet time and time again because I don’t know what is wrong and having a battery of tests run and racking up bills in the thousands, I have been there!

He was slowly weened off of his processed food Science Diet U/D and placed on a diet of fresh veggies and meat based on a very slow transition to follow with Rick’s help.

Buddy’s diet is a balance of ¾ veggies to ¼ meats. Dogs with liver issues do not need as much protein as you would expect. He gets lots of yellow veggies (squash, tomatoes, peppers, cucumber, celery, carrots, Brussel sprouts, snap peas, etc.) along with hemp oil and nori blended with goat yogurt into almost a smoothie consistency. I then add meats, liver is great as it helps to detoxify the liver (funny that you feed liver to a dog with liver issuesJ) and then he gets a variety of supplements. He receives three gut supplements in the morning (Acidophilus, Bifudus and a Spectrabiotic) along with an Enzyme and something called Whole Body. In the evenings he gets the Enzyme, Whole Body and a Mushroom supplement. The process to make his food is not that time consuming and if you are at your wits end like I was, I was ready to do anything.

He also gets to have as much goat yogurt as he wants with coconut oil. He also gets sweet potato chews and coconut slices.

He is also allowed to eat fruits, not during his morning and evening meals since they digest differently than veggies, but he has not yet warmed up to them yet. I don’t know if he ever will.

He is doing great! He has so much energy and the numbers don’t lie! I got a glucose meter and I am going to start checking his levels daily. I would really like to get him off the insulin if I can. I believe the medicine is what causes the blindness, not the actual diabetes, my vet believes otherwise.

My vet has not said much of anything. I explained I was taking him off the prescription food and putting him on this program and he never responded. When I took him in the last time for blood work, I think he was surprised Buddy was doing so well, but did not ask me further about what I was doing. He is a pretty straight and narrow vet and I don’t think he looks outside the box. If Buddy’s glucose numbers continue to decline, I will take him back and back off on the number of units he is given. Now it is just maintenance and keeping a spreadsheet and monitoring how he is doing.

I suggest reaching out. I think Rick saved Buddy’s life. I took him to the vet in October to have blood work done and he is perfectly healthy!

Let me know if I can be of anymore help.

Good luck on your search and reach out if you have further questions or concerns. It was hard to take the jump and trust someone other than my vet with my dogs nutritional health, but I am so glad that I did.

Lori

[GSDsForever]

Has anyone here seen the Gentle Leader in the wider (3/4″ vs 5/8″ or narrower) strap, for large to giant breeds?

I have an old one in the narrow width, from rescue work, in large. But I’ve read that the wider width might be more comfortable for large dogs.

I’m having trouble locating it for purchase, both locally (big metropolitan area) and online. Also, I want to purchase it in black — not red or any colors. Stores seem to carry the narrow width only and the product packages and online descriptions do not specify width.

From what I can tell, Gentle Leader (as a patented product, by a veterinarian, behaviorist) is licensed to two companies: PetSafe division of Premier, now Radio Systems; and Beaphar (out of the Netherlands, w/a US importer/distributor, PaccPets). Would prefer, if possible, to buy from Beaphar or alternative to PetSafe for ethical reasons (Ditto Halti/Holt).

Thanks!

[Susan]

Hi ac,
Isn’t that the shell the creamy/white bit on the outside & the mussel is inside the shell? I thought it was the shell?? I just googled a picture of a mussel, so that’s just the mussel lol I thought it was the whole mussel & shell & after being freeze dried thats what the shell looked liked all shriveled up cause they’re still crunchy but soft….
These are the “K-9 Natural Freeze Dried Mussels” I buy,
https://www.petcircle.com.au/product/k9-natural-green-mussel-bites

If you can buy cheaper freezed dried mussels from a grocery store then buy them, we also have other brands for dogs that are cheaper but I found they’re smaller & not as big as the K-9 Natural freeze dried mussels, so you need to give more of the cheaper mussels so the packet doesn’t last as long…..You can buy frozen mussels at the supermarket, read the link below, heat may destroy some of their anti-inflammatory benefits when you cook the mussel, you can even get mussels in a can/tin but will need to be lightly cook….
Freeze Dried Mussels would have the most health benefits being freeze dried, someone else might know more about Mussels?
Here’s a link, about the Health benefits of Freeze Dried Mussels…..Green-lipped mussels contain rare, furan fatty acids that act as powerful antioxidants. This combination of omega-3 fatty acids is not found in any other known marine oils.

Green Lipped Mussels Health Benefits

I knew your dogs would love them, just make sure you wash your hands after touching them mussels…

[Dharlee]

My dog was dumped when I got him as a young adult- a little under a year old. He had a stomach full of garbage and so he’s never been able to eat just anything. He does fairly well on Hills Science Diet for Sensitive stomach if it’s dry. He does ok on Blue Buffalo Grain free as well. He has acid reflux and easily throws up anything too rich. He cannot tolerate the Hills ID (I think it’s called) canned food without throwing up.

Fast forward to now and he’s almost 11. I have been reading about dog food and become worried and wanted to try and make things better for him. With that in mind I thought I would try Dynovite. Well, I thought he was doing alright on it. Until last night. He sleeps with me and he got me up almost once an hour to go out. Very unusual for him to go out even once in the night. I went out with him and found he didn’t just have diarrhea, it was like water. He was miserable.

Once before I thought I was doing him a favor and got him some probiotics. After about a week on them he got terrible diarrhea along with a swelled bum as well. He looked rather like a baboon from behind. I have to wonder if it’s the probiotics in the Dynovite that’s causing this now or the richness of the food itself. (I was using their recipe) The only thing I did differently was to cook the beef lightly as they said could be done.

He has developed itchy stinky skin in the last two years and it has been a nightmare both for him and my wallet, but most especially him. The vet thinks he needs a new food she sells and I really HATE it. He loves the taste. It’s Royal Canin Ultamino. It has feather meal! I told her no way but she is insistent. He is also taking 2 apoquil a day! Now this along with a visit every two weeks is breaking my bank! Don’t get me wrong. I love him and will do what I have to do (he has also been through very expensive disk surgery at the local vet college) but it’s coming to the point of do I buy my meds or his.

So I feel like I am at my wits end and do not know where to turn. At this point I just wish I could give him something he loves to eat and that will keep him healthy and happy. I have serious doubts that feather meal is it!

[ray q]

Ok here is my recommendation and it is listed on this site. I had a client 10yr old dog, I suggested The Honest Kitchen dog food. It is dehydrated you can add warm water or broth, you can get the food with the protein already added or you can get the base mix and add your own protein.

[LA S]

I have searched as best I can in the internet for information and reviews about Redford Naturals, and this forum is THE ONLY place I can find! I don’t even have a dog. I have a new shelter kitten, now 14 weeks old. The shelter sent her home with a tiny bag of kitten food by the hill Science Diet. That stuff is way out of my budget. As I’m recently myself on a grain free diet and feeling better than I have in years, I was looking for a grain free, quality food. The Pet Supplies employee showed me the Redford for kittens. I couldn’t believe the price value and really liked what Insaw on the ingredients list. As she’s grown, I now suspect my kitten is a Bengal mix. She’s a handful but well worth the effort. She’s more like a dog than any cat I’ve ever known or seen. There’s nothing aloof about her. Anyway, she loves this food. Her coat sparkles, she’s full of energy, sleeps well during her cat naps, and couldn’t be more delightful. Her stools are normal. She had the smelliest gas when she was eating the Hills Diet, but thankfully that’s not a problem with the Redford. She passes gas on occasion now, which isn’t a big deal. So far I’m impressed with this brand of food. I wonder if there are no internet reviews for it because the company isn’t advertising it. My oet’s well being s good enough for me. Grain free makes sense. My vet told me that grain or meat, it doesn’t matter where our pets get their protein. She must have never read The Plant Paradox like I did recently.

[GSDsForever]

“Vet says he’s too young for allergy.”

I have had multiple dogs with allergies, food and otherwise, been advised by specialists and excellent experienced general practice vets, as well as done my own judicious research and I have NEVER heard that from any source. I would question that.

While my current dog has had the most challenging to figure out and overcome allergies I have personally encountered, she is now doing exceptionally well. We (my vet & I) have used a multi-pronged approach for this dog that has both food and environmental allergies.

I agree w/anon — see a different vet, get a second opinion and get an accurate diagnosis based on good, solid veterinary knowledge and experience, a specialist as needed. Ask for a referral to the specialist if necessary. A good generalist vet should be happy to refer.

Pitlove also makes a good point. Fleas aren’t a big challenge where I live, but I do know that flea bite allergies (even from a single flea when you don’t see fleas, flea dirt) are a major cause of allergies/itching for many dogs.

This is the protocol for my dog, some or all of which may be helpful to your dog if you haven’t tried something (or the combined approach):

1)DIET
Novel Protein (10-12 weeks to see results) Limited Ingredient Diet — homemade or from a company with very strict allergen/cross-contamination AND NOT ONE DEMONSTRATED IN VET JOURNALS TO BE CROSS-CONTAMINATED ALREADY (Royal Canin, Natural Balance, Nature’s Variety/Instinct, et. al.)

— and ABSOLUTELY NO treats, supplements, “real”/”people” food, medicines (i.e. heartworm preventatives), or even chew/dental toys (i.e. Nylabone) that contain the established top food ingredient allergens for dogs (beef, chicken, fish, eggs, dairy, wheat, soy, corn). I treat w/her actual food or low allergen potential real food (i.e. blueberries, green beans, watermelon)

***Because I feed kangaroo — having needed a more unusual, rare protein source — I feed Zignature Kangaroo LID (GF) dry & canned food.

I also supplement, per vet prescription, Omega 3 EPA & DHA at a high, therapeutic/condition treating dose daily for anti-inflammatory effects, plus skin, coat, brain benefits — and I use Grizzly’s Wild Alaskan Salmon Oil in pump bottle.

2)ENVIRONMENT:

a)Frequent thorough bathing w/very hypoallergenic and gentle shampoo & skin soothing, skin repairing/barrier protective, etc. ingredients

b)frequent washing of dog’s bedding, etc. in hypoallergenic laundry detergent

c)frequent vaccuuming (pollen, dust/particulates, etc.)

d)hypoallergenic wet wipes wipe down of whole dog, especially paws (or dunking/rinsing paws off), after all walks & trips outside (pollen, dust/particulates, etc.)

Finally — consider & don’t overlook your own personal care/cleaning products that may cause allergic responses in your dog.

3)Cytopoint (aka CADI) injections, every 4-8 weeks as needed, seasonally or otherwise

I researched, considered, and rejected two other rx allergy/itch meds, Apoquel and Atopica.

I also researched and considered trials of 4 (recommended #) OTC antihistamines (e.g. benadryl, zyrtec/cetirizine).

I tried the above all in that order, before adding the next step.

We also tried once, but didn’t receive good relief and diagnostic results from a steroid injection — to see if she had seasonal environmental only allergies vs. food/combination.

[organic n]

Hi all, I’ve been researching a lot about what to do with my dog with kidney problems. He had acute kidney failure 2 years ago, and has since been doing well but often has episodes where he is not hungry and throws up. Usually clears itself up within the day, however. He also gets pancreatic problems when exposed to things high in fat (learned that the hard way).

I don’t have his bloodwork levels with me (I was actually going to see if i could get a copy from his vet in the next few days for my own records) but I do remember his BUN being higher than normal but the vet never said anything about it in terms of lowering it, but I feel like my vet doesn’t really see it as a problem despite him having high values.

Anyway, he is a few months shy of being 16 years old, and he is a 6-7lbs dog. We stopped feeding him dry kibble for many many reasons (around a year ago), and now we make his food at home. I don’t do raw meat (I don’t feel like trying out the raw meat thing at his age and conditions is worth it), his meals consist of:

Lean ground turkey cooked with white rice, carrots, peas, and green beans. I use a vitamin supplement (Only Natural Pet® Senior Ultimate Daily Vitamin Powder). After reading however, I will make some changes to his food by swapping out the peas (heard they are high in phosphorous) for some other veggies. And maybe switching out the turkey for ground beef 10% fat. He does get treats too – and if he is willing fruit as well particularly apples.

Also, I would like to start my dog on some more supplements – particularly green food supplements (have heard kelp is high in sodium though and the ones i’ve looked at contain many types of kelp..hmm), switching out the vitamin powder to VetriScience Renal Essentials Kidney Health Support Dog, adding salmon oil, and adding pre/probiotics to my dog’s diet.

Is the salmon oil necessary if I use the VetriScience kidney support tabs?

Can someone who is knowledgeable with kidney disease in dogs advise on the supplements I would like to add to my dog’s diet? I know the best thing is to consult my vet, but perhaps someone on here who has gone something similar can advise.

[zcRiley]

There must be an abscess. White blood cells destroy whatever’s causing the infection. Some of these white blood cells will end up in pus, which also includes dead skin and dead germs. The body considers pus toxic and will try to get rid of it. But when pus collects in an abscess, it may not be able to drain out on its own. As pus builds up, it can press against the skin and surrounding inflamed tissue, causing pain. Not doing anything will cause the infection to spread or be pushed deeper inside the body, making things worse. So yes, it’s necessary.

[Robin B]

I just spent 4 hours and $800 at an after hours emergency veterinary clinic with my rescue mutt. He was unable to pee, straining with leg up for ages, repeat. Then he started leaking in dribbles. This appeared to come on suddenly. Examination, urinalysis, X-ray, ultrasound: struvite crystals in urethra, stones in bladder. He had a catheter flush & sent home with prescription canned Hill’s S/D. It looks disgusting but he will eat it. We’ll see our vet at our regular clinic next week to check for progress on dissolution of crystals & stones.
He had been eating quality kibble ( no grain, limited ingredients etc.) enhanced with Wellness canned food (beef, turkey, chicken, lamb in rotation. Who doesn’t like a little variety?) Good news: we might be closer to guessing his breed combo (a little schnauzer in there, they tend toward this problem) and he started peeing the morning after his procedure & the prescription diet is temporary. Unlike me, he’s not a big drinker and he seems to have a bladder that will hold forever, likely one source of the problem.
So, I think I have deduced the cause: not enough water & infrequent elimination breaks both easily remedied although he only likes to pee on his walks.
My plan is to resume his regular diet when I get the “all clear” from the vet, add water to his kibble/canned meal combo. Introduce vitamin C & cranberry supplement. Offer homemade broth in addition to water to keep him hydrated. (I’m cheating and already making & giving the broth).
My question: do I wait until he is crystal clear before adding supplements & broth to his prescription food?
Your question: I’m new to the journey but hope I’m on the right track, commercial food with quality locally sourced ingredients, combo wet & dry (quality wet alone is too rich for my budget), water or bone broth added to food, lots of water available & broth if pup won’t drink water, frequent opportunity to pee (I think that was our downfall).
Good luck & advice is welcome.

[Lori H]

Hi Cody,

I am just going to tell you. Every vet with a practice went through a seminar during their schooling to either have Hill’s Science Diet or Royal Canin as their go-to brands for either dogs or cats. Read the following article here: http://www.doglivershunt.com/vets-and-nutrition.html

I would do more research on your end. I can’t speak directly to the benefits of Blue Buffalo as a dog food since my dog is on a very specific diet created and curated by the gentleman who provided the detailed information above due to health issues, but don’t believe everything your vet says. 🙂 They are good at what they do, diagnosing ailments and performing surgery, but when it comes to pet nutrition, they don’t have a lot of knowledge, unless they have gone out and gained further education and are willing to look at it from a different approach that is not related to a kick back.

I love my vet and believe he has done good things for all of my pets, but when it comes to nutrition, I found my answers elsewhere.

Good luck on you search for knowledge and don;’t give up before you have all answers you need to make an educated decision.

Lori

[Monica P]

Ginger- I couldn’t agree with you and Missy C. more! I have a 6 year old Newfy/Lab mix who has a sensitive tummy and is beyond picky. When I adopted her our current dog was 15 and we were cooking chicken, rice, and everything else to keep her weight up and healthy. Long story there. However, the new baby got accustomed to having some human food in with her dry kibble. Her stomach couldn’t handle the canned food the older dog was eating either. I have her now on Royal Canin for labs, which she eats. I have NEVER found that food that makes her excited about wanting to eat. Unless it is human foods, and she is picky about that even. At Pet Supplies Plus I found canned food- Whole Earth that she appears to like and will eat mixed with her dry. That lasted about 1.5 weeks. And the GAS! OMG! horrible. Yesterday I was in the store again to pick up some Science Diet to see if she might like that and I happened upon this little bag of Honestly Bare. I read the bag, grabbed it and said.. lets try it. She ate it right out of my hand like it was a treat! Actually LOVED it! My other dog too. NEVER has this happened! So, I also pushed my luck and tried the Science Diet kibble and she at that too. So, for dinner she had her Royal Canin and I topped it with the Honestly Bare and she gobbled it up! This morning, same thing but I added in the Science Diet. I think even though she is large dog, she prefers the smaller kibble science diet is offering. And she is 40 pounds overweight so I need her to be on something to help with that. So! I naturally came here for a review.. nothing listed. Hopefully they will review soon. It is made by a branch of Purina which she and my other dogs ate for years! My first dog lived to be 18 on Purina! Anyhow, I am crossing my fingers this is the fix. No more canned or TRYING to find a happy medium to get her to eat DOG FOOD! I look forward to any other reviews out there and hopefully Advisor will do one too.

[Susan]

Hi Ginger.
here’s the Honestly Bare link https://www.honestlybare.com/about-us/
I looked at the Honestly Bare, Slow cooked tenders formula’s, here’s the Chicken, Peas Carrots formula ingredients, {Chicken, dried peas, dried carrots, “beef glycerin”, salt, “natural hickory smoke flavor”, potassium chloride, preserved with mixed-tocopherols, choline chloride}, also the Chicken Apple & Sweet Potato formula also has the “Beef Glycerine” & the “natural hickory smoke flavor” powder, these are not good or natural ingredients…”hickory smoke flavor” is a powder type flavoring to make the food more appealing & the Glycerin is a binder & a sweetener…
Some dog treats also use the Glycerine, I avoid those treats, your dog probably likes & eats this cause of the salty hickory flavoring…
The Honestly Bare slow cooked tenders formula’s are not freeze dried, it’s made to appear like the natural freeze dried formula’s, the Honestly Bare “Wholesome Topper” formula’s are freezed dried, you’re better of adding the Honestly Bare Wholesome topper to his kibble, you add water & then add to his Acana kibble as a topper the Wholesome topper don’t have the Hictory smoked powder or glycerine & the ingredients look natural but it’s just a topper not a proper balance meal…
When you read the “Wholesome Topper” it does say freeze dried chicken & 100% natural when you read the “Slow Cooked” doesn’t say 100% Natural & says 75% chicken…

When I’m on the other side of DFA the “Comment” section a few people who have very Fussy dogs have been posting that their dogs are doing really well & love “Fresh Pet” pet foods there’s, Freshpet Select, Vital & Nature’s Fresh, here’s the Freshpet link
https://freshpet.com/our-foods/our-brands/
there’s their Fresh Baked grain free formula’s & their Loaf style rolls that you can cut in sections & freeze…
Another really good Air dried food is “Ziwi Peak” https://www.ziwipets.com/
send “Ziwi Peak” an email & ask for some samples, give your address etc so they can send you the samples, Ziwi Peak is air dried & propely balanced so can be feed as main meal, your dog will probably like their NZ Tripe & Lamb it’s for Picky eaters & the Mackeral & Lamb, Ziwi Peak also do their raw wet canned foods, I bet your dog will love Ziwi Peak then just roatae between the different meat proteins, my cat goes nuts when I feed her the Ziwi Peak wet & dry food, she inhales it & doesn’t chew, the wet canned food can be a bit expensive so best to buy when on special….

[Lisa R]

I have a Chi, 10 yrs old who was diagnosed with Cushings in May. On Vetoryl. Symptoms of excessive water drinking and peeing continued, as well as a large appetite. I read that dry food is the worst food for Cushings dogs so I switched to a raw food which was highly recommended. He wouldn’t eat it raw, so I cooked it. He loved it for months and I saw his symptoms subside – he can sleep through the night and not have to go out to pee – most nights. Unfortunately, now won’t touch the cooked raw. So I’m looking for the next best thing. I’m going to look at Dr Judy’s site – thanks Susan. And I’m excited to see there’s a Cushing’s FB group! I need help.

[Susan]

Hi Venessa L,
Stick with kibbles that have only 1 single meat protein with limited ingredients & once you find a few that she likes & agrees with her start rotating them to build up her immune to different ingredients, it sounds like Seasonal Environment Allergies & Food Intolerances like my boy gets, he starts rubbing his bum & mouth & gets red around his mouth/muzzle after eating Chicken, start giving weekly baths to wash off any allergens that might be on skin & coat look for in an anti fungal anti bacterial medicated shampoo I use “Malaseb” medicated shampoo excellent for red itchy skin, smelly skin/coat, allergies etc I also buy the baby wipes Coconut Oil wipes or the Cucumber & Aloe Wipes Adli’s have the Wipes when they have their sales or I get Huggie baby Wipes & I wipe Patch down after he’s been outside or when we come back from our walks, I know when he starts rubbing his mouth, head, body on my rug he’s itchy so I either bath him or use the baby wipes…
Start keeping an Diary & do you have Pet Insurrance? get some before you tell teh vet & he diganoses your dog with Allergies then I think its classed as a pre existing health problem & not covered so if later you have to see an Dermatologist your covered as Dermatologist are very Expensive….
here’s a really good Face Book group call
“Dog Issues, Allergies & Other Information Support Group” https://www.facebook.com/groups/240043826044760/
A Dermatologist frequents the group + other people going thru the same problems as you
Here’s some LID foods to try for stomach/bowel problems (food Sensitivities) & Itchy Skin problems.

* “Natural Balance” limited Ingredient Formula’s read ingredient list for each formula as some of NB formula’s have different ingredients like Chickpeas.

* “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb

“Canidae” Pure formulas or “All life Stages” Large Breed Puppy, Adult Turkey Meal & Brown Rice formula has limited ingredients.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products, scroll down a bit look to your right for “View All” click on page 5.

* “4Health” Special Care, Sensitive Stomach, is Egg & Potato
* “4Health” Special Care, Sensive Skin, has Hydrolyzed Salmon https://www.tractorsupply.com/landing-pages_brands_4health-special-care.html

[Atlas T]

Wow, lots of action on this thread! I wonder if we could start new threads with some of the topics here that are not really related to the original post (Atlas’ poo situation). More than anything, I’d like other folks to be able to find the info they need, without wading through this entire thread.

Vanessa, sorry to hear about your pup! Maybe you can start a new thread so that we can help you there and it doesn’t get buried as the 86th post on this thread 🙂 I’m also not sure the advice folks were giving my pup, Atlas, is necessarily the same advice they’d have for your dog.

Thanks!

[a c]

Susan,

I don’t use Facebook so thank you for the details from your post. I lost my 10 years old dog son to lymphoma(lymph nodes cancer)this past spring. It’s like a wake up call for me. I have trusted the vets, the dog food industries, pet vaccinations, pet heart warm provention, and pet flea control. I felt so bad. I have failed my dog. I gave him the poision. Never cross my mind that I need to second guessing them.

Now I do. I have been doing a lot of reading and research. The more I read the less I am willing to give them. Basically, everything is related to the greed, the revenue. Where are the ethics? I still haven’t find any vet who is willing to do blood work to determine whether annual rabies shots are necessary. If I know those info sooner, maybe my dog is still here with me.

[Susan]

Hi
Atlas & Cockalier Mom as well,

I follow “Rodney Habib” https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib on his face book page, Dr Karen Becker & Rodney have been traveling all over the world speaking & interviewing Dr’s Vets, Scientists etc like Dr Steve Marsden, Dr Marty Goldstein, Dr Jean Dobbs, Dr Richard Patton, Dr John Robb, Dr Ian Billinghurst, Dr Gregory Ogilive, DR Karen Becker, Dr Erin Bannink, Dr Joseph Mercola, Dr Tim Spector & many more & Rodney & Ty Bollinger have put together a 5 part video’s free so we all can learn how to have a healthy dog the way nature intended them to be, click on Rodneys link above then scroll down his page & look for “The Truth About Pet Cancer” Episode 2, “Hidden Hazards & Causes” get a cuppa sit back & watch, then watch Episode 3 Raw Diet vs Kibble, Episode 4 “Heal & Repair” has just been put on Rodneys F/B page.
“Steve Brown” is also good to follow when it comes to healthy feeding & what to add to your dogs diet, when Steve Brown was asked, if he had to add just 1 ingredient what would he add to balance the diet & he said “Mussels” they’re cheap & very healthy, Mussels have Manganese, Iodine, Fats, Vitamin D, EPA, DHA, Glucosamine, Chondrotoitin get some Freezed Dried Green Lipped Mussels I buy “K-9 Natural” New Zealand Brand, Patch gets 2 Mussels a day around 11am, yes he does do a few smelly farts after he eats te Mussels but so far pooo’s have stayed the same firm & I know Mussels are very healthy for his skin, coat & his joints, he’s nilly 9yrs old in Novemeber, Steve also said to add 1 spoon of Salmon & a pinch of kelp to their diets….
Dr John Robb & Jean Dobbs are really good Dr’s watch their interviews about Vaccinations in “The Truth About Cancer” Episode 2, we all want answers why are our pets dying so young from cancer & other diseases, back 20-30 yrs ago this wasn’t happening cause we weren’t putting all these flea tick poisons on or in their bodies or feeding dry processed kibble, we feed table scaps what we ate, we didn’t over vaccinate, I only remember my mum going to the old drunk vet up the road when the cats needed desexing or putting down, she’s carried them in small round leather bag & bring them back & burry them in the back yard.
When watching these video’s get a writing pad to jot things down quickly, in Episode 3 when Ty Bollinger who is also doing these Episode with Rodney Ty talks about what he uses for Flea products, after watching this section of the video you will think twice before using any poison flea products, Ty said he gets “Orange Oil”, “Lemon Oil” & “Grapefruit Oil” he gets a little 99c spray bottle adds a few squirts of all 3 oils then add some water shakes & spray Atlas for Fleas & Ticks instead of giving him any poison flea products, Mike Adams said he uses “Cedar Oil” for fleas & Ticks especially if your dogs swims, the Cedar Oil doesn’t wash off, Dr Eward Group uses “Diatomaseous Earth” for worms & heartworm adds once a week to 1 of the meals “do NOT give him any of these new Flea Chews or tablets” they change the dogs blood, so think about it a tick has just bitten your dog & the Tick dies straight away, this poison is in their blood running & pumping thru their body going thru our dogs organs now that wouldn’t be healthy for the dogs. Bravecto should be taken off the shelves its the worst flean product & cause its new we dont have any real research yet about long term side effects, the Poisons in Bravecto stays in a dogs body heaps longer then the 3 months it states on Bravecto, vets have taken blood tests from very sick dog after they had been given Barvecto Chew & became very ill & 9mths later these sick dogs still had the poisons that are in Bravecto still in their system…
There’s not much research when it comes to our dogs & cats especially food & diet, most of the research is done by the big companies like Hills but in Australia our vets & some of our pet food companies tell us pet owners if you feed kibble also add raw meaty bones to the dogs or cats diet at least once or twice a week, we have one brand kibble called “Stay Loyal” made by brothers & they tells their customers to fast your dog 1 day a week Sunday & feed raw meathy bones instead of a kibble meal thru the week, this is what all pet food companies should be doing being honest with pet owners but it wont happen in America…
I hope you both enjoy watching Rodney & Ty Bollingers video’s there’s a lot to sink in so maybe watch the video’s a few times, the sad part is we have sick pets & cant do alot of the things like feed the Raw Diet but we still can add healthy foods to their diets, in 1 yr time when Atlas is an Adult & gut has healed, Atlas might be able to chew on a nice raw meaty bone & have no problems at all later on, he’s lucky he has you helping heal & fix his intestinal problem now in the beginning while he’s still a pup, so chances are his intestinal tract will slowly heal & then just avoid the foods he’s sensitive too, where Patches old owners we think he had a few owners cause of his name “Patch” he didnt know or answer to Patch when I get him thru rescue & he was micro chipped at 3months old all details DOB were on his M/C paper work, patches first owner must of given him up to someone else cause he would of answered to Patch, his owners mustnt of bothered when he had diarrhea or did real sloppy poo’s & just kept feeding him them same diet that was causing all his intestinal problems ..When I move I’m re introducing Patch onto raw again, I’m trying 1 last time, he’s getting a Crocodile meaty bone for his 9th birthday, he always pulls me to the fridge section & looks at the raw Crocodile & Kangaroo meaty bones….
We can stop using the flea tick products, I don’t use any flea/tick, allwormers or no Heartworm products, Patch always became real ill after I’d use any flea/tick products & his vet said NO to all the new flea/tick chews & tablets, the Fleas dont seem to jump on him, he doesnt seem to get any fleas only 1 Summer the fleas at the Park were bad we had had heaps of rain & a few fleas would jump up on his legs but he’d tell me straight away, he’d stop walking & look to where the flea was on his body & I’d squeeze inbetween nails & kill them, I dont use allwormers or Heart wormers either I dont live in a bad Heartworm area ask your vet he’ll know if your living in a high heartworm area, the only flea product Patches vet said to use & doesn’t go thru to the dogs blood is “Frontline Plus” Spot On & Frontline Spray, the rest all go into the dogs blood, that’s another thing try & find a GOOD vet, there’s some bodgee vets around & some really good vets like Rodney’s video’s they do heaps more studying after they have become vets & learn heap more about diet, nutrition, poisons, vaccines etc did you know a vet isnt taught how to prevent your dog from getting sick or cancer the vet is just taught how to treat the dying dog who already has cancer or is already sick, that’s sad I think…..
I’ve seen a lot of different vets over the years thru rescue, you have vets that love giving the dogs drugs & dont bother working out why this is happening with teh dog etc but lately the vets I’m seeing thru the pounds that are younger & learning now have an different approach then the more older cranky vets, so I hoping thats going to be a good thing for the future of our pets….

[Atlas T]

Thanks for the suggestions and general support and good vibes.

Atlas is doing great on the sweet potato and fish diet, still getting kefir twice a day as well. His poop is nice and solid and he is going about 4-5 time /day, compared to the 7-8 he was doing before. I’ve started giving him the duck and potato kibble as a treat and he is doing great with that. The only thing is that he thinks it tastes ok, but not good enough to be a real “treat” like to get his attention when he wants to chase a bird otherwise.

I may try what Susan said in awhile and buy some of the canned food and bake it or something. Little by little, hopefully he’ll get better.

I have some questions about other dog health topics that are unrelated to food and this thread. Are there any other forums you all use for that kind of stuff? I’d love your suggestions.

Thanks!