[cynthia w]

thank you everyone for all the info you have supplied. i truly appreciate it!!!

anon101 i am now in the research mode regarding “plant protein” sources. thank you for the info you sent.

susan, i ordered the tylan powder. also the info for the youtube video i will watch as well.

we have not been “diagnosed” with SIBO or IBD. i am a person who will not only see my vet with any small issue but also knows when to “treat the symptoms” vs running to every single specialist out there who in the end usually has you “treat the symptoms” until you become what my vet calls “a statistic in someone else’s book”. i have learned the hard way regarding this with other animals which i won’t get into here. for me i am fortunate it is not about the money, it is about the sanity of the dog being poked and prodded at by so many strangers. malinois don’t do so well with that. there is a breaking point with every dog, i’m just not willing to go there for the dogs sake!

so what i have done after being told to put a high energy dog who can stress (not panic, it is the drive of the dog “another subject”) on high fiber diet. at this point, from the foods i have tried (orijen tundra included. love that food) along with pumpkin (usually made it worse) after hearing susan talk about “high fiber” being bad juju for SIBO i put it together and stopped which resulted in the dog not having so many soft poops. however, the reason i chose to go to rx was after reading several vet case studies and the symptoms fit at that point (straining and soft poops) i was on the rx for 10 days. stopped a week later trying the totw sm MIXED with sd low-fat gastro at first worked then stopped. i went back to the rx for three days and cut back on totw sm still mixed with sd low fat gastro. still issues. today, i went to sd gastro (NOT LOW FAT) and have yet to see a poop. hopefully tonight. i also took note the sd low fat had more fiber than the sd non low fat. now i’m going to straight sd gastro for a few days to see if it is indeed the protein to fiber ratio causing his issues. he has had LIMITED STRAINING since the first round of rx which that is a good thing.

i have also given the “pro-pectalin tab” off and on during the whole course of when i noticed he was not gaining weight a few months ago which could be contributed to growth spurt or mal absorption or not enough food for training. since then in 4 weeks he has gained even with continuing small issues FOUR POUNDS!!! a POUND A WEEK!!!!! i’m super happy about that! so anyhow, at the moment because of the type of work we do, (high stress work) i have a bag of royal canin gastro high energy waiting in the background. it has higher fat 18% 23% protein but like 3-3.5% fiber. hoping this will workout and that i can again try to go back to mixing the orijen tundra in because of the protein sources.

there is so much great information here from all y’all that take the time to post. and like someone said i think it was taylor, people that come here are looking for answers they are not getting elsewhere. so for that thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedules to help others.

[Fanette R]

Thanks Susan and Taylor for your help.

It’s so tricky having to take care of IBD and pacreatitis at the same time!
I was also wondering about the “min 12%” actually, but thought it won’t be too much higher.
I also was skeptical about the Fiber in “First Mate Pacific Ocean” ’cause it might not be good for Furby’s issue.

I’ve checked the food “Kirkland Salmen & Sweet Potato Formula” but I saw that it’s a 14% fat formula, isn’t that too much?

Yeah ordering those food might be tricky too.. I don’t think I’ll even be able to order Wellness, I’ve tried to check if I could order dry food for Furby through Amazon, from the US but it doesn’t seem to be possible.. France is very bad for dog food…
Lately we have had Acana, Orijen and Taste of the Wild coming into our pet stores, but that’s basically it.. And from what I read none of those brands would go with an IBD dog who suffers from pancreatitis…

I might be able to order Natural Balance online through providers. There is no providers in France but in Europe there is once so I could contact them.
I just hope Furby would do ok with sweet potato as it’s the first ingredient.

Anyway, I’ll keep looking, it’s just frustrating ’cause I can’t order much good dry food as there isn’t much of them around my area..

The only one I’ve found that I could order easily is the “GO! Sensitivity + Shine Salmon”
On the french website they say “12% fat” but on the english one they say “12.4” so I dunno.. This brand also have a LID section but there is lentils is all of those recipes.
Go! Sensitivity + Shine Salmon https://www.petcurean.com/product/go-sensitivity-shine-salmon-dog-food-recipe-eu/

And Merry Christmas to you all! 🙂

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Fanette R.

[Colleen R]

Hi!
New poster here looking for some opinions/ My 11 yr old dog (55 lbs) pit/pointer mix was recently diagnosed with PLN.

The vet said she will need to be on a prescription diet the rest of her life and medication. The food is expensive. I put her on Hills K/d and she hates the dry so I bought her the wet food which she eats just fine, but reading some articles about prescription diets I’m wondering if this is a scam. I would be spending $1600/year on her food if I keep giving her canned. Does anyone have experience with this disease? I’m open to feeding her a raw diet too. I just find it outrageous to spend that much on her prescription food and wondering if it’s all a scam and I could get the same results from a raw diet….I do need to talk to my vet about this and I may even get a second opinion. Any feedback is much appreciated!

[Fanette R]

Exactly Taylor 🙂
Those are very tricky disease and you need to tak get all the info you can get, and then talk to a vet about it.
I’ve changed vets several times this past year too. Furby actually had a pretty tough year because of vet. Last year, around october, Furby’s was shaking and I could tell his stomach wasn’t ok. I went to my vet, explaining that to me, but because Furby have had back pain, he was sure it was the problem. So he gave him cortisone. Came back because Furby wasn’t ok and kept telling him that I was wondering about his stomach being the problem and he was like “look, see how he react when I touch his back, I’m telling you it’s his back”, he gave him cortisone again.

Then one night he was shaking a lot, I brought him to an emergency vet because I was worried. This vet actually told me straight there were something wrong with his stomach. This vet was very “brutal” with furby (he wasn’t violent or anything, but Furby is a rescued dog and need vets to be gentle with him, otherwise he tries to escape and hurt himself by fighting against the vet). I said to the vet that it should be careful with Furby cause he has back issues, but it still went harsh on him, said nothing was very bad, gave some light stomach medicine and I left.

I came home and furby couldn’t walk properly and was screaming so much. Called the vet and saying that something was very , very wrong. He told me that there were something wrong with me, not with my dog and that I should calm down….
Next day I go to my vet, and straight he is like “oh my god but what’s going on? looks like a very bad hernia” and told me to go straight to a clinic where he could get surgery.
Then we went to that clinic this is were I met my wonderful vet that I kept since then.
He had surgery for his hernia (hernia caused by the other vet…) and then after a few weeks got his first pancreatitis, diagnosed by my new and actual vet.
So… my dog actually had severe stomach pain from the beginning, his back pain wasn’t the cause of the problem.. and by giving him cortisone again and again actually made it worst because Furby doesn’t do well with cortisone (that’s why my vet and I are very careful about the medicine he has now with his IBD), and ended up because of all that with his first pancreatitis.

So, yes sure listen to your vet.. but first of all, find the right vet, and more importantly , a vet who would be open and ready to make researches and ask around, especially when your dog got a tricky disease.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Fanette R.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Fanette R.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Fanette R.

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

I’ve said it before, some people posting replies here fail to realize that others come to sites like this to read about other people’s experiences with what works and doesn’t. Unfortunately, sometimes the examining vet doesn’t always have all of the answers. While it is always a good idea to run things by a vet, they may not always come to the same conclusions others have. If I had only listened to my vets, plural because i changed many times while dealing with this issue, my cat would be dead right now. They all missed what was truly wrong with him and it took me finding someone who had the same issue I had on a forum, and then going to the vet and telling them what I wanted them to prescribe (ended up being metronidazole for this particular issue).

I’m glad you’re finding people with some solutions to both your IBD and pancreatitis issue that your vet is being supportive. both are difficult problems and it helps having support groups you can turn to.

[Fanette R]

But I never said that those vets saw my dog, did I ?
I was just mentioning that because I was talking about prescription diet et commercial diets, that’s all. I wasn’t talking about my dog here. Of course I’m not gonna take for granted what I read and will talk to my vet about any little things I would have in mind.

I think I mentioned several times here already now that I have discussed everything with my vet. That all I’m deciding and all I’m mentioning here about my choices, have been discussed with my vet too.
When your dog has those kind of disease, such tricky ones, it is very important to research as much as possible and to ask around to people who had a dog with IBD. And after that, of course, you talk to your vet about what you found. My vet is doing research on her own, I’m doing research on my own, and then we talk about it. It is a tricky, tricky disease, and vets are admitting themselves that don’t have all the answers yet

My vet and I are actually emailing each other every single day. I’m very close to her since the beginning of Furby’s problems and she is doing all she can. Which includes researching and discussing with me.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Fanette R.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Fanette R.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Fanette R.

[Fanette R]

Yes I totally agree, loose stools/diarrhea indicate that the current diet does not agree my dog. Since I rescued Furby (almost 8 years now) he has been on dry food, and from time to time, more as treats, wet food. Because we had some struggles those past few months because of his IBD, my vet told me to keep him in that wet food for now as he seemed to do well will it. But it worked when I mixed it with dry food, not by itself. So yeah I need to go back to dry food.
Yes IBD is a lot about tests and errors, everyone needs to be aware of that.
But you’re right, I should feed him a bland diet for a few days and let my them know of course.

To go back into this prescription/no prescription diet, I’ve spent hours and hours, days and days, researching informations about IBD (and I mean researches official informations and vet studies). And in all the studies I wrote about IBD, the vets were saying that there were two options with IBD : “hydrolyzed food” (that you can find in some prescription diet) and “novel protein diet, with usually potato or even better sweet potato”, and they mention that you can find very good novel protein diet through commercial brands. None of them have said that a dog needs to go on a prescription diet. I read this very interesting studied about IBD in dogs by a very good vet from the University of California, who study IBD, that said the exact same thing.

Furby has had a sensitive stomach since I got him. I never put him on a prescription diet because most hypoallergenic formula had rice on them, or chicken and furby doesn’t do well with those two. So he was better with a very good hypoallergenic commercial brand.

All I’m saying that for me there is no “prescription diet is better” or “commercial brands are better”. It depends on the dog, that is all.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Fanette R.

[Susan]

Hi Fanette,
the Australian made & Europeon made TOTW Sierra Mountain & Pacifiic Stream does not have Lentils or Garbanzo beans, send an email to TOTW & ask TOTW is the TOTW sold in France like the TOTW made for Australia & has No Chickpeas or Lentils in the TOTW Pacific Stream & in TOTW Sierra Mountain formula’s?? then ask can I have the TOTW formula’s made for Europe.. I have the Australian TOTW formula’s link if you want to see the different TOTW formula’s, when TOTW was changing their formula’s back in 2015 a few of us that are in a face book group called “EPI in dogs” contacted TOTW in America & we told TOTW we have very sick dogs, 1 lady dog had EPI, my boy had IBD & another lady dog had IBS & since putting all our dogs on TOTW Pacific Stream & Sierra Mountain formula’s all our dogs have finally gotten better, (Probably cause these TOTW formula’s have 1 single meat protein, it’s lower in fiber under 4%, uses Potato & Sweet Potatoes, has Probiotics & uses purified water & Kcals per cup are low) we have read all the complaints with the poor dogs in the UK that are eating the new TOTW formula’s most of these dogs have bad Diarrhea from the new ingredients Lentils & Chickpeas, we were told TOTW are adding Garbanzo beans to their Pacific Stream formula’s & Lentils to their Sierra Mountain formula’s, Lentils & Garbanzo beans can cause intestinal stress especially when you have IBD, IBS & EPI, can TOTW please keep the Australian & European TOTW formula’s the same without the added Lentils & Chickpeas??? then TOTW contacted me & said they will be keeping the TOTW formulas the same & they will not change these 2 formula’s that are imported to Australia & European countries…… we were all sooo HAPPY & thanked TOTW for doing this plus I think the TOTW veterinarian Dr’s agreed with us & they knew we were right that Lentils & Chickpeas can cause Intestinal Stress, I’d rather eat potato or sweet potato then eat taste less lentils or chickpeas Lentils give bad wind pain & you have the farts lol
As you know its very hard finding foods that agree with an IBD dog, people that have never had IBD or have never had a dog with IBD don’t understand & think it’s easy just feed a vet diet & the dog will get better, IBD is an awful disease, some ingredients can cause bad wind/gas & dirrahea, all these pet food companies are adding Lentils & Garbanzo beans (Chickpeas) to their pet foods is cause Lentils/chickpeas are high in protein so this puts the protein % up higher so pet food companies are adding & using cheap Lentils & Chickpeas now to their pet foods, when we read the Protein % on a kibble bag it doesnt say meat protein % or plant protein % separately, the protein % & is both meat & plant protein & people see a high protein % & think its all meat protein but it isnt..

“Earthborn Holistic” have a new formula out called Venture, Rabbit Meal & Pumkin, EH write the protein % from peas, meat & pumkin, in Earthborn Holistic Venture Rabbit Meal & Pumkin formula it says Pea Protein-37% Pumkin Protein-18% Rabbit Meal Protein-40% the only problem with Earthborn Holistic Venture formula’s the fiber is very high around 8-9%, have you worked out does Furby do better on less fiber or more fiber in his diet?? my Patch needs less fiber & Lentils & Chickpeas are very high in fiber….
I wouldn’t worry if the protein is low & is under 25% & that the Sweet Potatoes is first ingredient we have sick dogs just finding a kibble that works is a miracle, I’d try the “Natural Balance” Sweet Potato & Bison formula first it has teh least ingredients or there’s the “Californian Natural” Chicken Meal & Rice if you dont want to feed teh Lamb Meal & Rice they both have only 3 ingredients, I’ve read alot of people saying their IBD dog is doing really well eating the Natural Balance LID formula’s, then once Furby is doing well you can slowly start adding more fresh cooked meat to his diet, Patch does best on kibbles that have low Kcals Per cup under 360Kcals per cup when he’s eating a kibble that is higher then 380Kcals per cup & higher in Protein after a few days he starts his whinging, crying & lifts his right paw up for me to rub his pancreas/stomach area so I’ve been only feeding him kibbles now that are under 360Kcals per cup now & under 25% in protein, it’s Summer at the moment in Australian & he always doesnt do too well thru the Summer months cause of his environment allergies…..Patch stopped eating the TOTW Lamb formula when we moved, so I saw that as a sign & he was telling me mum I dont like this TOTW no more, TOTW Pacific Stream & their High Paraire formula’s tested very high in Toxins back in August when all the popular dog foods were tested so maybe thats why Patch stopped eating the TOTW also TOTW have changed something in their Sierra Mountain formula, it smells different & the kibble size is smaller, small kibble is a good thing but something is different & Patch kept eating grass after eating his TOTW, so now Im feeding him the “Nutro Essentials” Lamb & Rice formula at the moment
it has Lamb, Ground Rice, Rice Flour, Grounded Sorghum, Chicken Fat, I’d rather be feeding him Nutro Grain free, Lamb, lentils & Sweet Potato formula but I know if I feed the thwe better formula we will be up every night 11pm 1am 3am 5am with him with wind pain, diarrhea & him looking for grass, Kangaroo is a good novel protein low in fat BUT Kangaroo is a very rich meat & all the pet foods companies can’t afford to use Kangaroo so they add Lentils, Chickpeas to up the protein % Zignature does it, Zignature Kangaroo formula is very high in Red & Green lentils, then when people dogs start having Diarrhea people think its the kangaroo meat but its the high about of Lentils or Chickpeas the pet food companies have added to their Kangaroo formula, here in Australia Kangroo is in our supermarket cheap pet foods the same with Horse meat, yrs & yrs ago horses were used in Pet Foods now you dont see horse meat in pet foods anymore a few people who have dogs with IBD use horse meat & their dogs are doing really well but I would try adding a carb as well with the horse meat, Furby mighten get diarrhea the Kangaroo protein might be too high for him to handle….

[Fanette R]

Thanks you so much for all those info Susan, it really helps.
We have felt very lost and alone since Furby got diagnosed, everything is getting so confusing. I’ll for sure check ou the IBD groups you’re talking about!

Ok so I’m definitely not gonna put him on the Royal Canin diet. I was very concerned already, when my vet said “well, those kibbles are actually high in fat so, because furby suffered from pancreatitis in the past, we should do a blood test right now and one in 3 weeks to see if it is ok for him”… This is again something that would cost me a lot of money and that would be painful for Furby…

Ok so I’ve just spent an hour looking through a few brands.
I was actually considering “Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain” ’cause I heard good things for dogs with IBD. I just have two concerns, maybe you can help me out with this.
1. I see there is lentils il the ingredients, but you said I should stay away from lentils for Furby, right?
2. I’m seeing that the protein for those kibbles are “lamb”. Furby was on frain free, lamb hypoallergenic protein for 3 years, we just took him out of it a few months ago, as he got diagnoste for IBD. I must say I’m not sure that this protein affected him and caused him IBD because he got IBD 3 years after starting those kibbles, but I’m still wondering if I shouldn’t go maybe for another protein?

Beside Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain, I’ve found this :
– California Natural : Herring & Sweet Potaoe recipe : http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/1201
– Natural Balance Limited Ingredients :
Sweet Potatoe & Bison : https://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog-formulas/dry/limited-ingredient-diets/sweet-potato-and-bison
Sweet Potatoe & Fish : https://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog-formulas/dry/limited-ingredient-diets/sweet-potato-and-fish
Sweet Potatoe & Venison : https://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog-formulas/dry/limited-ingredient-diets/sweet-potato-and-venison
– The Honest Kitchen : Limited Ingredient Turkey & Parsnip : https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/marvel

What do you think of those? Is there one that could feet better a dog with IBD?
Also, Is that ok if, in the natural balance recipes, sweet potatoe is the first ingredient? I always heard that meat should be the first ingredient.

Hopefully you can help me out a little bit more 🙂
And no I haven’t tried boiled potato with Furby’s wet food, I’ll try that and see if it helps! Thanks!

[Susan]

Hi Fanette,
I also have a rescue dog Patch he is 9yrs old now, he was diagnosed with with IBD 5yrs ago he was diagnosed thru Biopsies, Patch also has had Pancreatitis when he was eating Royal Canine, Hypoallergenic HP vet diet, the fat was way too high at 19% sometimes these vet just say “here feed this vet diet or feed that vet diet”, and our poor dogs are guinea pigs & the vet see if the vet diet works, great if the vet diet works or vet diet food doesnt help then our poor dog gets worse, no vet diets have ever helped Patches IBD if anything he got worse, “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb dry kibble was the first dry kibble that helped firm Patches poos up & made his itchy skin better, I have to rotate Patches foods now, when he first starts a new foods he seems to go good then after 1-2 months he goes down hill again so I change what I’m feeding him, I have found when you feed Sweet Potato & Potato to dogs with IBD they seem to do better & do firm poos…
Do NOT feed any kibbles or wet canned foods that have Lentils, Chickpeas (Garbanzo Beans) as these ingredients can irratate the bowel & cause bad WIND/GAS pain… have you tried adding boiled white potato to the wet canned horse food?? this is what I do as Patch can’t eat wet canned foods either especially if it has boiled rice in it the boiled rice irratates his bowel, I boil 1 potato in small pieces & put in a container & keep in the fridge I add about 2 spoons of the mashed potato with 1/2 a canned wet tin food for breakfast, I also buy canned Australian Tuna in Spring Water add boiled Potato for lunch…
Look for kibbles that have limited ingredients & have Sweet potato or Potato there’s “Natural Balance” Sweet Potato & Fish & Sweet Potato & Duck the fat is 10% here’s the Natural Balance site read thru all the formula’s as some fomula’s have pea protein.. https://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog-formulas/special-category-limited-ingredient-diets
Have you jpined any Canine IBD Groups? there’s IBDOGS” on Yahoo & theres a few Canine IBD groups on face book the people in these groups are going thru the same as you & your dog… Just make sure when you do try something new only give 1 new thing at 1 time over a 1-2 week period so if it doesn’t agree with Furby you will know what is causing the problem, just becare as you have reduced Furbys medications & gotten so far you can fed him a kibble that will cause an IBD flare & he’ll be back on high doses of steriods again, Good Luck & keep us informed with what’s happening with Furby please try the boiled Potato with his horse meat, it will firm up his poo’s..

[Fanette R]

Hello,

Thanks for the answer!
I wasn’t saying Royal Canin was a bad brand, I was just sceptical about the composition for this specific dry food, “anallergenic”, especially because my dog also had pancreatitis and that there is a lot of fat in this dry food.
But yes, for sure I’m working on it with my vet very closely, I realized it might not have been clear on my message, sorry about that! I’m very close to my vet actually, I was just looking for advices with food, but never against my vet’s opinion 🙂

Thank you for the link you sent me, I’ll check that out! This is very true that you can read everything and anything on the internet, that’s also why I wanted to ask here and see what answers I’ll get 🙂

[anonymous]

More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets

Please read the above article and others on that blog.
Royal Canin is a good company, please work closely with your vet for best results.
There is a lot of misinformation on the internet.
Beware of homeopathic sites and miracle cures, you can make things much worse.

[pitlove]

haleycookie-

I’m sure you’ve figured out by now that we are going to ask for links to credible research (published papers, studies, peer reviewed articles etc) when such statements are presented like “kidney disease is on the rise in cats..” “cats dying from kidney failure more than any other illness” “that is because of garbage kibble people are told to buy”. Whats interesting is, you likely can’t produce any of this information because studies done in cats are few and far between. Why do you think we can’t easily diagnose and treat heartworm disease in cats even though some 50% or more of the cat population (indoor and outdoor) are HW+? So I’ll ask you then, where do you get your information from? It doesn’t seem to have any basis besides someones opinion you’ve likely read on facebook etc.

[Rose G]

We’ve had a Rottweiler who initially was fed whatever my husband (single at the time) fed him…crazy stuff Probably dog chow and table scraps and he lived for 16 years. He died of, we believe diabetes.

A Brussels griffen, who also ate dog kibble for the most part but was also growing up at the point that people where not paying as much attention and the melanmie issue came up. Then we switched to better dog food, probably higher protein the last 5 years of his life. He only lived for 10 years and died of liver cancer.

A Brittany, who was also fed similarly to the brussels griffen and we just had to put her down in July because of cushing disease, she had also gone blind a year prior. She was 12.

I keep reading and reading about dog food and get so confused…raw/high protein/low protein/no grains/with grains…it is overwhelming to try and figure out what is best for my dogs healthy life. We now have a 5 year old/45 lb shepherd mix and an 8 lb 2 year old mix of some sort of shitzu/brussels…truly Heinz 57.

[Marie Y]

Rose,
here’s the dosing I got online that seems to be working great for me:

Until stones are dissolved (if he has stones)-2 times daily, 1-700mg tablet for every 25 # of body weight. my dog is 15 # so I only used 1 700mg tablet per dose
After stones are dissolved-for 1 month 2 times a day 1 tablet
After 1 month-same dose but every other day for 2 weeks
After 2 weeks-same dose 3 times a week and alternate the weeks (give it one week then not the next then give it again)
Then daily for one week,
Then nothing for 3-5 weeks ( went 4, right in the middle)
Then do it for one week every 5 weeks, which is where I’m at right now. So every fifth week he gets a tablet split into two daily meals for one week.
I know it’s confusing but just reread it as needed! lol.

I also make his food at home and it’s much cheaper than buying canned and I know pretty much what’s going into it.I add digestive enzymes, and calcuim citrate as it binds oxalates. I use just a short 1/8th tsp per meal of that. Sometimes I add a sm amt of magnesuim but I’m not always good at getting it in and also glucosamine.
My problem is getting him to drink so I add at least 1/2 cup of water to every meal. I try to make it 3/4 if I can. Tried to do an entire cup but he refused to eat! Good luck! If there’s anything I can do to help please let me know. I’m not a professional just someone who’s done some research and finally found something that’s working.

[Steve M]

I’ve read where curcumin and ? help fight cancer in humans. I’m trying it presently.

[aimee]

I received the lab report on the Salmon No Hide chews. This was done at a veterinary diagnostic lab by a forensic pathologist. The sample was submitted by my dog’s veterinarian. The lab rehydrated the chew in deionized water. The pink coating is described as gelatinous and friable which floated within the water. The chew itself described as tough and not able to be manually torn or pulled apart. The white/tan chew material was processed separately from the pink coating material

The coating material is described as having no distinct organization and an accumulation of eosinophilic strands. “The strands of material occasionally have multiple nuclei along the periphery and rarely cross striations are observed ( consistent with skeletal muscle) The myocytes [muscle cells] vary in diameter…….There are numerous aggregates that are clear ………….and brown crystalline structures within the material”

Comments: “The filling material appears to be a mixture of animal product (identification of skeletal muscle) mixed with a filler product( plant based material?)”

For the chew itself: “The material appears to be composed of streams of eosinophilic material( no observable nuclei) with relatively distinct margins. This material is birefringent using polarized light.” I didn’t know what that last sentence meant and looked it up. I found that it is a measure of symmetry and is a reported characteristic of collagen.
Comments: “The majority of the rolled product appears to be composed of collagen like material”

I found this interesting not only for what it says but for what it doesn’t say. The company describes the chew as being high muscle content ” meat is an essential part of the “dough” portion of the No-Hide” and ” The wild caught salmon has been carefully hand-rolled, cooked, and uniquely dried for a one of a kind chew your dog will love!” yet no muscle tissue was found on microscopic examination of the chew, only in the coating. Additionally, the chew had been described as being made of rice vegetable gelatin, oil and eggs with the protein added but no description of plant based products intermixed with animal based in the chew description ..only in the coating description. The chew is uniformly composed of collagen-like material.

Rawhide is the dermis of the skin which is a mat of collagen fibers. The pathology of this No Hide chew is consistent with dermis.

So what next.. I’ve already got hundreds invested into this and I’m going to take it farther. I’ll send out a labeled rawhide chew and have it processed as the No Hide was so a direct comparison can be made. Then depending on cost have specialized stains run.

Right now to my eye this forensic pathology report is consistent with this product being rawhide.

[GSDsForever]

Has anyone here seen the Gentle Leader in the wider (3/4″ vs 5/8″ or narrower) strap, for large to giant breeds?

I have an old one in the narrow width, from rescue work, in large. But I’ve read that the wider width might be more comfortable for large dogs.

I’m having trouble locating it for purchase, both locally (big metropolitan area) and online. Also, I want to purchase it in black — not red or any colors. Stores seem to carry the narrow width only and the product packages and online descriptions do not specify width.

From what I can tell, Gentle Leader (as a patented product, by a veterinarian, behaviorist) is licensed to two companies: PetSafe division of Premier, now Radio Systems; and Beaphar (out of the Netherlands, w/a US importer/distributor, PaccPets). Would prefer, if possible, to buy from Beaphar or alternative to PetSafe for ethical reasons (Ditto Halti/Holt).

Thanks!

[Susan]

Hi ac,
Isn’t that the shell the creamy/white bit on the outside & the mussel is inside the shell? I thought it was the shell?? I just googled a picture of a mussel, so that’s just the mussel lol I thought it was the whole mussel & shell & after being freeze dried thats what the shell looked liked all shriveled up cause they’re still crunchy but soft….
These are the “K-9 Natural Freeze Dried Mussels” I buy,
https://www.petcircle.com.au/product/k9-natural-green-mussel-bites

If you can buy cheaper freezed dried mussels from a grocery store then buy them, we also have other brands for dogs that are cheaper but I found they’re smaller & not as big as the K-9 Natural freeze dried mussels, so you need to give more of the cheaper mussels so the packet doesn’t last as long…..You can buy frozen mussels at the supermarket, read the link below, heat may destroy some of their anti-inflammatory benefits when you cook the mussel, you can even get mussels in a can/tin but will need to be lightly cook….
Freeze Dried Mussels would have the most health benefits being freeze dried, someone else might know more about Mussels?
Here’s a link, about the Health benefits of Freeze Dried Mussels…..Green-lipped mussels contain rare, furan fatty acids that act as powerful antioxidants. This combination of omega-3 fatty acids is not found in any other known marine oils.

Green Lipped Mussels Health Benefits

I knew your dogs would love them, just make sure you wash your hands after touching them mussels…

[ray q]

Ok here is my recommendation and it is listed on this site. I had a client 10yr old dog, I suggested The Honest Kitchen dog food. It is dehydrated you can add warm water or broth, you can get the food with the protein already added or you can get the base mix and add your own protein.

[LA S]

I have searched as best I can in the internet for information and reviews about Redford Naturals, and this forum is THE ONLY place I can find! I don’t even have a dog. I have a new shelter kitten, now 14 weeks old. The shelter sent her home with a tiny bag of kitten food by the hill Science Diet. That stuff is way out of my budget. As I’m recently myself on a grain free diet and feeling better than I have in years, I was looking for a grain free, quality food. The Pet Supplies employee showed me the Redford for kittens. I couldn’t believe the price value and really liked what Insaw on the ingredients list. As she’s grown, I now suspect my kitten is a Bengal mix. She’s a handful but well worth the effort. She’s more like a dog than any cat I’ve ever known or seen. There’s nothing aloof about her. Anyway, she loves this food. Her coat sparkles, she’s full of energy, sleeps well during her cat naps, and couldn’t be more delightful. Her stools are normal. She had the smelliest gas when she was eating the Hills Diet, but thankfully that’s not a problem with the Redford. She passes gas on occasion now, which isn’t a big deal. So far I’m impressed with this brand of food. I wonder if there are no internet reviews for it because the company isn’t advertising it. My oet’s well being s good enough for me. Grain free makes sense. My vet told me that grain or meat, it doesn’t matter where our pets get their protein. She must have never read The Plant Paradox like I did recently.

[GSDsForever]

“Vet says he’s too young for allergy.”

I have had multiple dogs with allergies, food and otherwise, been advised by specialists and excellent experienced general practice vets, as well as done my own judicious research and I have NEVER heard that from any source. I would question that.

While my current dog has had the most challenging to figure out and overcome allergies I have personally encountered, she is now doing exceptionally well. We (my vet & I) have used a multi-pronged approach for this dog that has both food and environmental allergies.

I agree w/anon — see a different vet, get a second opinion and get an accurate diagnosis based on good, solid veterinary knowledge and experience, a specialist as needed. Ask for a referral to the specialist if necessary. A good generalist vet should be happy to refer.

Pitlove also makes a good point. Fleas aren’t a big challenge where I live, but I do know that flea bite allergies (even from a single flea when you don’t see fleas, flea dirt) are a major cause of allergies/itching for many dogs.

This is the protocol for my dog, some or all of which may be helpful to your dog if you haven’t tried something (or the combined approach):

1)DIET
Novel Protein (10-12 weeks to see results) Limited Ingredient Diet — homemade or from a company with very strict allergen/cross-contamination AND NOT ONE DEMONSTRATED IN VET JOURNALS TO BE CROSS-CONTAMINATED ALREADY (Royal Canin, Natural Balance, Nature’s Variety/Instinct, et. al.)

— and ABSOLUTELY NO treats, supplements, “real”/”people” food, medicines (i.e. heartworm preventatives), or even chew/dental toys (i.e. Nylabone) that contain the established top food ingredient allergens for dogs (beef, chicken, fish, eggs, dairy, wheat, soy, corn). I treat w/her actual food or low allergen potential real food (i.e. blueberries, green beans, watermelon)

***Because I feed kangaroo — having needed a more unusual, rare protein source — I feed Zignature Kangaroo LID (GF) dry & canned food.

I also supplement, per vet prescription, Omega 3 EPA & DHA at a high, therapeutic/condition treating dose daily for anti-inflammatory effects, plus skin, coat, brain benefits — and I use Grizzly’s Wild Alaskan Salmon Oil in pump bottle.

2)ENVIRONMENT:

a)Frequent thorough bathing w/very hypoallergenic and gentle shampoo & skin soothing, skin repairing/barrier protective, etc. ingredients

b)frequent washing of dog’s bedding, etc. in hypoallergenic laundry detergent

c)frequent vaccuuming (pollen, dust/particulates, etc.)

d)hypoallergenic wet wipes wipe down of whole dog, especially paws (or dunking/rinsing paws off), after all walks & trips outside (pollen, dust/particulates, etc.)

Finally — consider & don’t overlook your own personal care/cleaning products that may cause allergic responses in your dog.

3)Cytopoint (aka CADI) injections, every 4-8 weeks as needed, seasonally or otherwise

I researched, considered, and rejected two other rx allergy/itch meds, Apoquel and Atopica.

I also researched and considered trials of 4 (recommended #) OTC antihistamines (e.g. benadryl, zyrtec/cetirizine).

I tried the above all in that order, before adding the next step.

We also tried once, but didn’t receive good relief and diagnostic results from a steroid injection — to see if she had seasonal environmental only allergies vs. food/combination.

[organic n]

Hi all, I’ve been researching a lot about what to do with my dog with kidney problems. He had acute kidney failure 2 years ago, and has since been doing well but often has episodes where he is not hungry and throws up. Usually clears itself up within the day, however. He also gets pancreatic problems when exposed to things high in fat (learned that the hard way).

I don’t have his bloodwork levels with me (I was actually going to see if i could get a copy from his vet in the next few days for my own records) but I do remember his BUN being higher than normal but the vet never said anything about it in terms of lowering it, but I feel like my vet doesn’t really see it as a problem despite him having high values.

Anyway, he is a few months shy of being 16 years old, and he is a 6-7lbs dog. We stopped feeding him dry kibble for many many reasons (around a year ago), and now we make his food at home. I don’t do raw meat (I don’t feel like trying out the raw meat thing at his age and conditions is worth it), his meals consist of:

Lean ground turkey cooked with white rice, carrots, peas, and green beans. I use a vitamin supplement (Only Natural Pet® Senior Ultimate Daily Vitamin Powder). After reading however, I will make some changes to his food by swapping out the peas (heard they are high in phosphorous) for some other veggies. And maybe switching out the turkey for ground beef 10% fat. He does get treats too – and if he is willing fruit as well particularly apples.

Also, I would like to start my dog on some more supplements – particularly green food supplements (have heard kelp is high in sodium though and the ones i’ve looked at contain many types of kelp..hmm), switching out the vitamin powder to VetriScience Renal Essentials Kidney Health Support Dog, adding salmon oil, and adding pre/probiotics to my dog’s diet.

Is the salmon oil necessary if I use the VetriScience kidney support tabs?

Can someone who is knowledgeable with kidney disease in dogs advise on the supplements I would like to add to my dog’s diet? I know the best thing is to consult my vet, but perhaps someone on here who has gone something similar can advise.

[zcRiley]

There must be an abscess. White blood cells destroy whatever’s causing the infection. Some of these white blood cells will end up in pus, which also includes dead skin and dead germs. The body considers pus toxic and will try to get rid of it. But when pus collects in an abscess, it may not be able to drain out on its own. As pus builds up, it can press against the skin and surrounding inflamed tissue, causing pain. Not doing anything will cause the infection to spread or be pushed deeper inside the body, making things worse. So yes, it’s necessary.

[Robin B]

I just spent 4 hours and $800 at an after hours emergency veterinary clinic with my rescue mutt. He was unable to pee, straining with leg up for ages, repeat. Then he started leaking in dribbles. This appeared to come on suddenly. Examination, urinalysis, X-ray, ultrasound: struvite crystals in urethra, stones in bladder. He had a catheter flush & sent home with prescription canned Hill’s S/D. It looks disgusting but he will eat it. We’ll see our vet at our regular clinic next week to check for progress on dissolution of crystals & stones.
He had been eating quality kibble ( no grain, limited ingredients etc.) enhanced with Wellness canned food (beef, turkey, chicken, lamb in rotation. Who doesn’t like a little variety?) Good news: we might be closer to guessing his breed combo (a little schnauzer in there, they tend toward this problem) and he started peeing the morning after his procedure & the prescription diet is temporary. Unlike me, he’s not a big drinker and he seems to have a bladder that will hold forever, likely one source of the problem.
So, I think I have deduced the cause: not enough water & infrequent elimination breaks both easily remedied although he only likes to pee on his walks.
My plan is to resume his regular diet when I get the “all clear” from the vet, add water to his kibble/canned meal combo. Introduce vitamin C & cranberry supplement. Offer homemade broth in addition to water to keep him hydrated. (I’m cheating and already making & giving the broth).
My question: do I wait until he is crystal clear before adding supplements & broth to his prescription food?
Your question: I’m new to the journey but hope I’m on the right track, commercial food with quality locally sourced ingredients, combo wet & dry (quality wet alone is too rich for my budget), water or bone broth added to food, lots of water available & broth if pup won’t drink water, frequent opportunity to pee (I think that was our downfall).
Good luck & advice is welcome.

[Lori H]

Hi Cody,

I am just going to tell you. Every vet with a practice went through a seminar during their schooling to either have Hill’s Science Diet or Royal Canin as their go-to brands for either dogs or cats. Read the following article here: http://www.doglivershunt.com/vets-and-nutrition.html

I would do more research on your end. I can’t speak directly to the benefits of Blue Buffalo as a dog food since my dog is on a very specific diet created and curated by the gentleman who provided the detailed information above due to health issues, but don’t believe everything your vet says. 🙂 They are good at what they do, diagnosing ailments and performing surgery, but when it comes to pet nutrition, they don’t have a lot of knowledge, unless they have gone out and gained further education and are willing to look at it from a different approach that is not related to a kick back.

I love my vet and believe he has done good things for all of my pets, but when it comes to nutrition, I found my answers elsewhere.

Good luck on you search for knowledge and don;’t give up before you have all answers you need to make an educated decision.

Lori

[Monica P]

Ginger- I couldn’t agree with you and Missy C. more! I have a 6 year old Newfy/Lab mix who has a sensitive tummy and is beyond picky. When I adopted her our current dog was 15 and we were cooking chicken, rice, and everything else to keep her weight up and healthy. Long story there. However, the new baby got accustomed to having some human food in with her dry kibble. Her stomach couldn’t handle the canned food the older dog was eating either. I have her now on Royal Canin for labs, which she eats. I have NEVER found that food that makes her excited about wanting to eat. Unless it is human foods, and she is picky about that even. At Pet Supplies Plus I found canned food- Whole Earth that she appears to like and will eat mixed with her dry. That lasted about 1.5 weeks. And the GAS! OMG! horrible. Yesterday I was in the store again to pick up some Science Diet to see if she might like that and I happened upon this little bag of Honestly Bare. I read the bag, grabbed it and said.. lets try it. She ate it right out of my hand like it was a treat! Actually LOVED it! My other dog too. NEVER has this happened! So, I also pushed my luck and tried the Science Diet kibble and she at that too. So, for dinner she had her Royal Canin and I topped it with the Honestly Bare and she gobbled it up! This morning, same thing but I added in the Science Diet. I think even though she is large dog, she prefers the smaller kibble science diet is offering. And she is 40 pounds overweight so I need her to be on something to help with that. So! I naturally came here for a review.. nothing listed. Hopefully they will review soon. It is made by a branch of Purina which she and my other dogs ate for years! My first dog lived to be 18 on Purina! Anyhow, I am crossing my fingers this is the fix. No more canned or TRYING to find a happy medium to get her to eat DOG FOOD! I look forward to any other reviews out there and hopefully Advisor will do one too.

[Susan]

Hi Ginger.
here’s the Honestly Bare link https://www.honestlybare.com/about-us/
I looked at the Honestly Bare, Slow cooked tenders formula’s, here’s the Chicken, Peas Carrots formula ingredients, {Chicken, dried peas, dried carrots, “beef glycerin”, salt, “natural hickory smoke flavor”, potassium chloride, preserved with mixed-tocopherols, choline chloride}, also the Chicken Apple & Sweet Potato formula also has the “Beef Glycerine” & the “natural hickory smoke flavor” powder, these are not good or natural ingredients…”hickory smoke flavor” is a powder type flavoring to make the food more appealing & the Glycerin is a binder & a sweetener…
Some dog treats also use the Glycerine, I avoid those treats, your dog probably likes & eats this cause of the salty hickory flavoring…
The Honestly Bare slow cooked tenders formula’s are not freeze dried, it’s made to appear like the natural freeze dried formula’s, the Honestly Bare “Wholesome Topper” formula’s are freezed dried, you’re better of adding the Honestly Bare Wholesome topper to his kibble, you add water & then add to his Acana kibble as a topper the Wholesome topper don’t have the Hictory smoked powder or glycerine & the ingredients look natural but it’s just a topper not a proper balance meal…
When you read the “Wholesome Topper” it does say freeze dried chicken & 100% natural when you read the “Slow Cooked” doesn’t say 100% Natural & says 75% chicken…

When I’m on the other side of DFA the “Comment” section a few people who have very Fussy dogs have been posting that their dogs are doing really well & love “Fresh Pet” pet foods there’s, Freshpet Select, Vital & Nature’s Fresh, here’s the Freshpet link
https://freshpet.com/our-foods/our-brands/
there’s their Fresh Baked grain free formula’s & their Loaf style rolls that you can cut in sections & freeze…
Another really good Air dried food is “Ziwi Peak” https://www.ziwipets.com/
send “Ziwi Peak” an email & ask for some samples, give your address etc so they can send you the samples, Ziwi Peak is air dried & propely balanced so can be feed as main meal, your dog will probably like their NZ Tripe & Lamb it’s for Picky eaters & the Mackeral & Lamb, Ziwi Peak also do their raw wet canned foods, I bet your dog will love Ziwi Peak then just roatae between the different meat proteins, my cat goes nuts when I feed her the Ziwi Peak wet & dry food, she inhales it & doesn’t chew, the wet canned food can be a bit expensive so best to buy when on special….

[Lisa R]

I have a Chi, 10 yrs old who was diagnosed with Cushings in May. On Vetoryl. Symptoms of excessive water drinking and peeing continued, as well as a large appetite. I read that dry food is the worst food for Cushings dogs so I switched to a raw food which was highly recommended. He wouldn’t eat it raw, so I cooked it. He loved it for months and I saw his symptoms subside – he can sleep through the night and not have to go out to pee – most nights. Unfortunately, now won’t touch the cooked raw. So I’m looking for the next best thing. I’m going to look at Dr Judy’s site – thanks Susan. And I’m excited to see there’s a Cushing’s FB group! I need help.

[Susan]

Hi Venessa L,
Stick with kibbles that have only 1 single meat protein with limited ingredients & once you find a few that she likes & agrees with her start rotating them to build up her immune to different ingredients, it sounds like Seasonal Environment Allergies & Food Intolerances like my boy gets, he starts rubbing his bum & mouth & gets red around his mouth/muzzle after eating Chicken, start giving weekly baths to wash off any allergens that might be on skin & coat look for in an anti fungal anti bacterial medicated shampoo I use “Malaseb” medicated shampoo excellent for red itchy skin, smelly skin/coat, allergies etc I also buy the baby wipes Coconut Oil wipes or the Cucumber & Aloe Wipes Adli’s have the Wipes when they have their sales or I get Huggie baby Wipes & I wipe Patch down after he’s been outside or when we come back from our walks, I know when he starts rubbing his mouth, head, body on my rug he’s itchy so I either bath him or use the baby wipes…
Start keeping an Diary & do you have Pet Insurrance? get some before you tell teh vet & he diganoses your dog with Allergies then I think its classed as a pre existing health problem & not covered so if later you have to see an Dermatologist your covered as Dermatologist are very Expensive….
here’s a really good Face Book group call
“Dog Issues, Allergies & Other Information Support Group” https://www.facebook.com/groups/240043826044760/
A Dermatologist frequents the group + other people going thru the same problems as you
Here’s some LID foods to try for stomach/bowel problems (food Sensitivities) & Itchy Skin problems.

* “Natural Balance” limited Ingredient Formula’s read ingredient list for each formula as some of NB formula’s have different ingredients like Chickpeas.

* “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb

“Canidae” Pure formulas or “All life Stages” Large Breed Puppy, Adult Turkey Meal & Brown Rice formula has limited ingredients.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products, scroll down a bit look to your right for “View All” click on page 5.

* “4Health” Special Care, Sensitive Stomach, is Egg & Potato
* “4Health” Special Care, Sensive Skin, has Hydrolyzed Salmon https://www.tractorsupply.com/landing-pages_brands_4health-special-care.html

[Atlas T]

Wow, lots of action on this thread! I wonder if we could start new threads with some of the topics here that are not really related to the original post (Atlas’ poo situation). More than anything, I’d like other folks to be able to find the info they need, without wading through this entire thread.

Vanessa, sorry to hear about your pup! Maybe you can start a new thread so that we can help you there and it doesn’t get buried as the 86th post on this thread 🙂 I’m also not sure the advice folks were giving my pup, Atlas, is necessarily the same advice they’d have for your dog.

Thanks!

[a c]

Susan,

I don’t use Facebook so thank you for the details from your post. I lost my 10 years old dog son to lymphoma(lymph nodes cancer)this past spring. It’s like a wake up call for me. I have trusted the vets, the dog food industries, pet vaccinations, pet heart warm provention, and pet flea control. I felt so bad. I have failed my dog. I gave him the poision. Never cross my mind that I need to second guessing them.

Now I do. I have been doing a lot of reading and research. The more I read the less I am willing to give them. Basically, everything is related to the greed, the revenue. Where are the ethics? I still haven’t find any vet who is willing to do blood work to determine whether annual rabies shots are necessary. If I know those info sooner, maybe my dog is still here with me.

[Susan]

Hi
Atlas & Cockalier Mom as well,

I follow “Rodney Habib” https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib on his face book page, Dr Karen Becker & Rodney have been traveling all over the world speaking & interviewing Dr’s Vets, Scientists etc like Dr Steve Marsden, Dr Marty Goldstein, Dr Jean Dobbs, Dr Richard Patton, Dr John Robb, Dr Ian Billinghurst, Dr Gregory Ogilive, DR Karen Becker, Dr Erin Bannink, Dr Joseph Mercola, Dr Tim Spector & many more & Rodney & Ty Bollinger have put together a 5 part video’s free so we all can learn how to have a healthy dog the way nature intended them to be, click on Rodneys link above then scroll down his page & look for “The Truth About Pet Cancer” Episode 2, “Hidden Hazards & Causes” get a cuppa sit back & watch, then watch Episode 3 Raw Diet vs Kibble, Episode 4 “Heal & Repair” has just been put on Rodneys F/B page.
“Steve Brown” is also good to follow when it comes to healthy feeding & what to add to your dogs diet, when Steve Brown was asked, if he had to add just 1 ingredient what would he add to balance the diet & he said “Mussels” they’re cheap & very healthy, Mussels have Manganese, Iodine, Fats, Vitamin D, EPA, DHA, Glucosamine, Chondrotoitin get some Freezed Dried Green Lipped Mussels I buy “K-9 Natural” New Zealand Brand, Patch gets 2 Mussels a day around 11am, yes he does do a few smelly farts after he eats te Mussels but so far pooo’s have stayed the same firm & I know Mussels are very healthy for his skin, coat & his joints, he’s nilly 9yrs old in Novemeber, Steve also said to add 1 spoon of Salmon & a pinch of kelp to their diets….
Dr John Robb & Jean Dobbs are really good Dr’s watch their interviews about Vaccinations in “The Truth About Cancer” Episode 2, we all want answers why are our pets dying so young from cancer & other diseases, back 20-30 yrs ago this wasn’t happening cause we weren’t putting all these flea tick poisons on or in their bodies or feeding dry processed kibble, we feed table scaps what we ate, we didn’t over vaccinate, I only remember my mum going to the old drunk vet up the road when the cats needed desexing or putting down, she’s carried them in small round leather bag & bring them back & burry them in the back yard.
When watching these video’s get a writing pad to jot things down quickly, in Episode 3 when Ty Bollinger who is also doing these Episode with Rodney Ty talks about what he uses for Flea products, after watching this section of the video you will think twice before using any poison flea products, Ty said he gets “Orange Oil”, “Lemon Oil” & “Grapefruit Oil” he gets a little 99c spray bottle adds a few squirts of all 3 oils then add some water shakes & spray Atlas for Fleas & Ticks instead of giving him any poison flea products, Mike Adams said he uses “Cedar Oil” for fleas & Ticks especially if your dogs swims, the Cedar Oil doesn’t wash off, Dr Eward Group uses “Diatomaseous Earth” for worms & heartworm adds once a week to 1 of the meals “do NOT give him any of these new Flea Chews or tablets” they change the dogs blood, so think about it a tick has just bitten your dog & the Tick dies straight away, this poison is in their blood running & pumping thru their body going thru our dogs organs now that wouldn’t be healthy for the dogs. Bravecto should be taken off the shelves its the worst flean product & cause its new we dont have any real research yet about long term side effects, the Poisons in Bravecto stays in a dogs body heaps longer then the 3 months it states on Bravecto, vets have taken blood tests from very sick dog after they had been given Barvecto Chew & became very ill & 9mths later these sick dogs still had the poisons that are in Bravecto still in their system…
There’s not much research when it comes to our dogs & cats especially food & diet, most of the research is done by the big companies like Hills but in Australia our vets & some of our pet food companies tell us pet owners if you feed kibble also add raw meaty bones to the dogs or cats diet at least once or twice a week, we have one brand kibble called “Stay Loyal” made by brothers & they tells their customers to fast your dog 1 day a week Sunday & feed raw meathy bones instead of a kibble meal thru the week, this is what all pet food companies should be doing being honest with pet owners but it wont happen in America…
I hope you both enjoy watching Rodney & Ty Bollingers video’s there’s a lot to sink in so maybe watch the video’s a few times, the sad part is we have sick pets & cant do alot of the things like feed the Raw Diet but we still can add healthy foods to their diets, in 1 yr time when Atlas is an Adult & gut has healed, Atlas might be able to chew on a nice raw meaty bone & have no problems at all later on, he’s lucky he has you helping heal & fix his intestinal problem now in the beginning while he’s still a pup, so chances are his intestinal tract will slowly heal & then just avoid the foods he’s sensitive too, where Patches old owners we think he had a few owners cause of his name “Patch” he didnt know or answer to Patch when I get him thru rescue & he was micro chipped at 3months old all details DOB were on his M/C paper work, patches first owner must of given him up to someone else cause he would of answered to Patch, his owners mustnt of bothered when he had diarrhea or did real sloppy poo’s & just kept feeding him them same diet that was causing all his intestinal problems ..When I move I’m re introducing Patch onto raw again, I’m trying 1 last time, he’s getting a Crocodile meaty bone for his 9th birthday, he always pulls me to the fridge section & looks at the raw Crocodile & Kangaroo meaty bones….
We can stop using the flea tick products, I don’t use any flea/tick, allwormers or no Heartworm products, Patch always became real ill after I’d use any flea/tick products & his vet said NO to all the new flea/tick chews & tablets, the Fleas dont seem to jump on him, he doesnt seem to get any fleas only 1 Summer the fleas at the Park were bad we had had heaps of rain & a few fleas would jump up on his legs but he’d tell me straight away, he’d stop walking & look to where the flea was on his body & I’d squeeze inbetween nails & kill them, I dont use allwormers or Heart wormers either I dont live in a bad Heartworm area ask your vet he’ll know if your living in a high heartworm area, the only flea product Patches vet said to use & doesn’t go thru to the dogs blood is “Frontline Plus” Spot On & Frontline Spray, the rest all go into the dogs blood, that’s another thing try & find a GOOD vet, there’s some bodgee vets around & some really good vets like Rodney’s video’s they do heaps more studying after they have become vets & learn heap more about diet, nutrition, poisons, vaccines etc did you know a vet isnt taught how to prevent your dog from getting sick or cancer the vet is just taught how to treat the dying dog who already has cancer or is already sick, that’s sad I think…..
I’ve seen a lot of different vets over the years thru rescue, you have vets that love giving the dogs drugs & dont bother working out why this is happening with teh dog etc but lately the vets I’m seeing thru the pounds that are younger & learning now have an different approach then the more older cranky vets, so I hoping thats going to be a good thing for the future of our pets….

[Atlas T]

Thanks for the suggestions and general support and good vibes.

Atlas is doing great on the sweet potato and fish diet, still getting kefir twice a day as well. His poop is nice and solid and he is going about 4-5 time /day, compared to the 7-8 he was doing before. I’ve started giving him the duck and potato kibble as a treat and he is doing great with that. The only thing is that he thinks it tastes ok, but not good enough to be a real “treat” like to get his attention when he wants to chase a bird otherwise.

I may try what Susan said in awhile and buy some of the canned food and bake it or something. Little by little, hopefully he’ll get better.

I have some questions about other dog health topics that are unrelated to food and this thread. Are there any other forums you all use for that kind of stuff? I’d love your suggestions.

Thanks!

[charisse]

FYI I had shared on my thread that I had heard some bad opinions recently on Orijen. (my thread is: Weight issue for Shih tzu Bella switching from Orijen to what?? Help please).

DFA says they don’t change any info on Orijen until FDA says something…here’s the copy below of one the posts I saw:

“I saw a few posts about the Orijen USA production vs Canadian production, and also this one around Feb/March entitled Orijen USA : “…I am disappointed to see that Orijen is still on the Editor’s Pick of this website. I actually subscribed when i got overwhelmed with my search for a kibble to replace Orijen which I have been feeding my Golden for 6 years. Origen has definitely changed their ingredients (to inferior quality), and have admitted as much. The color and smell is different, and our Golden’s stomach has been irritated by it…”
Charisse

[poodaddy]

Hi Virginia D and others. Here is our story on this specific issue of dog gas. I hope it reveals some aspects of the nutrition side. First, the advice about exercise can be 50%+ of a solution with any dog since all dogs are to some degree “athletes” that NEED exercise; exercise is not just cardiovascular but also depending on the breed can resolve many other issues that do not “seem” to be related, such as anal gland functionality. Now, I am neither a vet, nor a certified anything, but I have been a field dog handler and student of canine performance for a very long time, now using some skills to start my understanding of canine nutrition science.

Before my current two cockapoos, I had a yellow lab raised from birth as a field dog (and household pet). He lived a long healthy life and I want to share with you and others on this posting, the experimenting I did with my yellow lab AND recently (less than a year ago) with my two cockapoos. I decided to figure out in both cases (my yellow lab diet) and the two poos diets, what would happen to their digestive tract, specifically in the generation of gas, if I kept all other factors as constant as possible. What I did was figure out what percentage of their diet was protein from their kibble and then I moved them into a kibble/raw diet and stabilized the protein at 50% for a while. We raised the protein percentage in about 5% increments starting at 50% until noticeable gas started, then we leveled off to ensure it was constant. Then I increased it more until just shy of 80% and the gas creation (making sure all other things were held constant) was amazing (from a biological view). I had some old notes from my yellow lab days that I needed to convince myself of with the two poos and the results compared favorably. The nutritionist readers will have LOTS of variables that contribute to this and I would probably agree with them all, such as some combinations of foods work together to control the chemical processing in a digestive tract. For this little experiment we did, we simply wanted to know how did our dogs’ digestive tracts react to protein percentage (period) nothing more sophisticated. And we found that percentage for our specific cases that correlated for one yellow lab and two cockapoos. That result was when we reached 80% protein % from raw meat where raw boneless chicken was 60% and raw red meat was 30%+ (the remainder of protein was from other non-meat ingredients), the gas production increased rapidly.

For the testing period, and menu stablization, we used these macro goals: Protein 60%, Carbohydrate 20%, Fat 20% and then increased the protein using boneless chicken until gas started and then continued increasing it to see if there was more production and there was a correlation. By the way, body builders and most human athletes have a similar issue with protein in their diets.

So, the other comments made about overeating are on solid ground if feeding a yellow lab from kibble where the lab will eat whatever amount is placed in front of them. My reading suggests that some canines will eat low protein foods until they get the protein they need which some authors suggest that this contributes to canine obesity. The point is, some of the comments above are right on in that there may be a correlation with your lab and the amount of bulk he/she is intaking compared to feeding times and exercise.

For this post though, I wanted to share with you that for one small item in a controlled environment, we proved that changing one item (protein % using raw chicken as the variable in an otherwise balanced diet), caused the onset of gas and continued to increase as the protein % increased. Here is the makeup of the most recent raw diet our two dogs are on. These ingredients are part of an integrated nutrition model that is in development. This the first time I have shared this data but it is nearing time to engage the nutritionist forum posters. I am providing this data primarily so you know the above is not some quacked out post. This was a real experiment and perhaps the results and posts will help you (and others) where gas is an issue. All numbers are in grams weight.

Raw Chicken heart 1252
Raw Chicken liver 765
Raw Chicken gizzard 2106
Raw Chicken Marrow 315
Organ 10.8% by weight

Raw Eye Round Roast 6000
Raw Whole chicken”fryer”/deskin/grd bone 16200
Whole XL eggs 2232
Raw Bottom Round 2000
Muscle meat 64.3% by weight

Shredded Carrot 500
Raw Zucchini 484
Boiled Sweet Potato 3500
Raw NAPA Cabbage 953
Boiled Raw Edamame 800
Boiled Green Beans 1000
Raw Butternut squash 459
Raw Whole Apple 921
Raw Baby Spinach 400
Kelp Powder 100
Yellow Squash 423
Vegitable/Fruit 23.2% by weight

Coconut Oil 600
Oil Supplement 1.5% by weight

Sea Calcium 65
Macromineral Supplement 0.16% by weight

Notes:
1. The Sea Calcium is used to force the CA:P ratio to 1.2 in this menu.
2. This made 60 days of food each for two dogs, one at 13.5 LBs and one at 15.5 LBs.
3. The menu planned cost for food was $0.94 per day per dog.
4. The final results after shopping with same %s design was $1.10 per day per dog.
5. Energy analysis resulted in 306 g per day and 339 g per day for each dog.
6. Custom MER factor used as 1.4 (based on iterations over 6 months of menus).
7. 1,260 g contribution by weight due to bone.
8. 2.5% contribution on the organ side due to chicken marrow, based on my own experiments.
9. Energy required per day: 381 Cal for 13.5 LBs and 423 Cal for the 15.5 LBs poos.

Results of this menu are outstanding in all measured areas. Am in the process of peeling back “supplements and vitamins” for what they really are or aren’t. Hope this detail helps you or others. More to come from our quest for canine nutrition knowledge and practical applications.

[Susan]

Hi,
yes I knew the vet wouldn’t be able to tell you much more especially when you have done all the poo tests & ruled out parasites etc…..
How did he go after adding the Kefir, has the Kefir helped or made things worse?
He’s eating the fish NB fish formula, the fish LID is the only LID formula without pea protein the rest of the NB LID formula’s have pea protein except the Potato & Duck it doesn’t have Pea Protein BUT it doesnt have Sweet Potatoes either it just has potatoes, all the NB LID formula’s differ in ingredients, did you end up trying the NB Puppy Potato & Duck formula? it is heap higher in Omega oils that may have contribute to sloppy poo’s if you did try teh NB Puppy Potato & Duck formula…
Have you tried a different NB formula like Venison or Bison the NB formula’s that have Sweet Potatoes like the Fish NB formula has…You could start using another NB formula that has different meat protein for treats for 1-2 weeks, this way you’re slowly introducing & another meat protein to his diet but all the other NB LID formula’s have Pea Protein, (that’s if he can’t eat peas??) When he’s been stable & been doing firm poos for 2-3months start doing an elimination diet so you can work out what foods he can & can’t eat, start adding under 1/4 cup frozen peas that you have cooked to his NB Sweet Potato & Fish meal then you can rule out peas being teh problem..
For treats you could buy tin samon in “spring water” drained all the water & add 1/2 boiled sweet potato make small flat balls & bake in oven on foil lined baking tray or read what Hills does for dogs on strict vet diets, Hills recommend you buy the matching wet loaf style canned food that matches the vet diet that your dog is eating, so you look at the NB LID wet canned foods & he eat Chicken & Sweet Potatoes or there’s the matching Sweet Potatoes & Fish canned food but it has to be a loaf style wet food it can’t be the chunky broth style wet can food, you’ll have to email Natural Balance & ask them are their LID canned Fish formula a loaf style or broth & chucky style?
You open can loaf food slide out the loaf then you cut the loaf in thin slices then you put on a foil linned baking tray & slowly bake in the oven & make treats. I’ll try & find Hills treat recipe online this is what Patches vet recommend I do in the beginning when Patch couldn’t eat anything except his Eukanuba Intestinal Low Residue kibble or Hills sell their Hypo-Treats but the Natural Balance LID treats look heaps better & are cheaper & have less ingredients then the Hills Hypo-Treats have…..
Here’s Chewy site link, they seem to be cheapest & are pretty good with refunding money well so I’ve read, when a dog can’t eat a certain food.. this is Natural Balance LID formula’s & matching LID treats, pretty cheap around $5 https://www.chewy.com/s?page=1&rh=brand_facet%3ANatural+Balance

You’re lucky Atlas can eat the NB LID Sweet Potato Fish Formula & he isnt on a vet diet as vet diets are expensive almost double the price as the NB formula’s. I’ll keep a look out for another brand that has Salmon & Sweet Potato or another protein & sweet potato & has around the same amount fat, protein & fiber % that he’s doing well on. I know Merrick LID uses Sweet Potatoes & has similiar ingredients as the Natural Balance has but its the same price & dogs with GI problems do really well on Merrick LID formula’s also there’s “4health” is another really good kibble for dogs with Gi problems & it’s cheaper…. but next year after you’ve done an elimination diet I’d be trying a new kibble..

[poodaddy]

I would like to offer some personal insight into this but in no way intend to suggest that any comments above are “wrong”; I just want to provide a view into the prism of how a licensed professional may look at advising consumers. As a preamble, if a selected food works for the dog, and if that dog is in good health, i.e. not suffering from symptoms of improper diet such as excessive anal gland secretion, inconsistent stools, on-set of periodontal issues, skin issues, weight control variations, lethargy, where symptoms are not backed by medical testing, etc, then great.

But, …. as a licensed professional in a different industry, I can tell you the reason why any licensed professional will not advocate to a consumer for doing something that requires a certain threshold level of knowledge to implement it. It is one of professional LIABILITY. I become more and more convinced every day the reason veterinarians recommend a scientifically-balanced commercially manufactured diet is the liability for the vet to suggest anything else is unlimited – period. For example, I would not “recommend a person go build their own wing on a house” or “recommend a person change their food intake to a personal menu” but I would recommend a set of plans designed/sealed by others and or hiring a licensed individual to do the design work and I would recommend an industry professional be consulted before recommending something as vague as “raw diets are good so go do it”. That would invite a level of criticism that licensed professionals are not insured against.

Raw diet is primarily a matter of nutrition science and design; if I were a vet, my initial position would advise a non-professional against a raw diet as a matter of practice. We peeled this back on the pet food manufacturing side with the consultants or nutrition experts internal the manufacturers (which is where the liability is for commercial dog food) and found that our Vet “switched” to become supportive of a raw food diet when our nutrition data was presented and was customized to our dogs and when when combined with a Vet’s prescriptions to treat ailments that now are gone and there is scientific data to back it. It should not surprise anyone reading this post, that our Vet could not say “stop doing that when problems vanished.” The vet knew we had crossed over a threshold and were not coming back. This may surprise you but I would never recommend to anyone to just go do a raw food diet after what I have learned, unless, (1) using another professional’s complete diet with the data to back it up and or (2) doing it yourself … which is a huge commitment to an entirely new level of commitment to control the input data, measure the output data to know with certainty (=/- say ~3%) of what the data is showing.

I hope this provides a more full picture of the why a vet would not “openly advocate to consumers” to go do something that would most likely be FAR worse than buying commercially prepared and manufacturer-backed balanced dog food.

[poodaddy]

Ahhh, it is the weekend again and time to post good stuff. A lot of the above sounds soooo familiar with our situation for our both dogs, plus we had many other simultaneous symptoms occurring with our dogs, inconsistent stools, anal gland flare-ups, tooth/gum issues, we had been “fighting” the symptoms for so long it seemed we were destined for either living with it or changing the outcome. We were at the 4-year mark with our two cockapoos and I had enough of the personal ignorance and following everyone’s prescriptions including our Vet’s. So,… the long road on research and learning began (and it still continues), discussions with our Vet at a far more informed level (or at least the level I could study to), lots of webinars listened to given by licensed Vets with pet nutrition specializations, and reading reading reading. Talking to senior GOV nutritionists including the USDA, talking with pet consultant business owners, etc – you get the idea now that this was a lot of figuring out stuff that I could find in one condensed place. The secret we eventually (over an intense investigation period of months) came to was that we needed to take charge of the food data and get it done (science-based input = good results/output). The bottom-line in our case is that until we went to a complete raw food diet (this means really knowing first-hand what we were doing), we were destined on a course of mediocrity or worse and chasing symptoms which I (we) had enough of. The addition of ground bones and connective tissue with the raw diet addressed many issues (but that is just the beginning of the solutions). The experience, learning, demystification of misinformation, disinformation, and anecdotal information that is “out there” is staggering. This whole experience of ours is one that is very enriching and I am on a quest to tell everyone I can about the lessons learned, the solutions put into practice, the observations and iterations to make tweeks to the raw diet, etc needed to take control. On the money side, we have avoided thousands of dollars and or lots of worrisome situations with our two dogs. Because cost comes up regularly, our food cost ranges from an average of $1.00-$1.25 per dog per day (13.5 lb and 15.5 lb) not including time to plan, design, iterate, shop, prepare, manufacture, bag, clean up. And our Vet just smiles at us when we go in for the check-ups and tells us congratulations, you have broken some barriers of ignorance and have the data to back up your “program”. So, we are on the quest to get this project done and share the nutrition model (and all that goes into it) with those who want or need to start where we are and not have to recreate it. The model is in the final phase of designing the menu analysis section for supplements needed (or not needed) but it is based on nutrition data. Disclaimer: the model does not address any aspect of diet for treating diagnosed disease(s). The model is about proper diet and maximizing probability of prevention of problems that can be avoided by applying nutrition science.

[Noelle M]

This is a hot topic for me lol
I have a dog with struvite stones and chronic utis.
Of course when we were given this diagnosis we were recommended a prescription diet from our vet. I immediately cringed at the ingredient list that was majority corn. There was no way I was going to feed my dog what was essentially corn meal with chicken fat half way down the list for the rest of his life. So I began my very long, very draining journey into finding a decent food that wouldn’t cause a flare up.
First I had to figure out WHY the prescription diets worked. Right on the Hill’s website they explain that the food contains controlled levels of calcium, phosphorus and magnesium to manage the development of stones.
So I took the calcium, phosphorus and magnesium levels from the prescription food and started comparing them to other foods. SO many foods. Many of which I had to email the company directly because they didn’t have those levels available online.
Essentially I looked for food with calcium and phosphorus levels below 1%, the lower the better. There are actually quite a few to choose from!
My boy has been on Performatrin Ultra Grain Free Senior for the past number of months, his meals are floated in water and I add a cranberry supplement. His condition has been kept 100% under control and he is doing wonderfully overall on this food.
Generally I have found that senior or large breed formulas are more likely to have sub 1% calcium and phosphorus.

Some of the brands I have found that could work are:
Performatrin Ultra Grain Free Senior
Nutram Sound Senior and Large Breed
Diamond Naturals Grain Free Chicken and Sweet Potato

I give bonus points to foods that contain cranberry already, though I continue to supplement it.

Bottom line is the prescription foods WILL work to treat a specific condition, but I personally could not bring myself to feed it long term based on the ingredient lists. There ARE decent quality foods out there that match or come close to matching the analysis of the prescription diets that should manage the dog’s symptoms and are generally much healthier overall. Look for subzero levels of calcium and phosphorus, float the food in water and consider a cranberry supplement.

Obviously I cannot gaurentee that any of these foods will work, but it is definitely worth a shot imo and has worked beautifully for my dog who had pretty severe and chronic symptoms.

Good luck!

[Jane E]

a typical letter when contacting Dr Harvey
s company:
Thank you for your email and you interest in Dr. Harvey’s. Dr. Harvey has read your email and would like to speak with you concerning your specific issue and questions.

He is usually available Monday through Friday from about 11 AM -3 PM EST.

Please call our Toll Free number, which is 1. 866. DOC H -123

(1.866.362.4123).

If calling during this time is not possible for you please let us know by email where and when we can contact you.

He is a wealth of information and hopefully can help you with your question and particular situation. Of course there is never any charge to speak with him.

We look forward to your call and to helping you and your companion.

Yours in Truth and Health,

Wendy Shankin-Cohen

President/CEO

Dr. Harvey’s

[Susan]

Hi Paula,
do NOT use the Hydro Peroxide, Tea Tree oil or Witch hazel Oil these all will irritate the dogs skin more & are very TOXIC, she’s 13yrs old, her Immune System probably not as strong as it once was when she was younger… Please read what I’ve posted above in another post what to use & do, the Malaseb medicated shampoo is an anti fungal shampoo that kills yeast & bacterica on skin & paws & the creams will bring relief & stop the itchy skin trust me… Hydrocortisone 1% cream cost about $7 at Walmart & look for a thick white nappy rash cream in the baby section at supermarket if you cant get teh Sudocrem from Amazon this also will help her skin…
Do you shop at Costco? look for Kirkland Signature, Nature Domain, Turkey & Pea wet canned/tin food & start feeding her this & start buying tin salmon in spring water, Adli’s sell Salmon in spring water & add with some boiled sweet potato for another meal, the Salmon is high in Omega 3 fatty acids whats needed in her diet, also give a dog Probiotic to help strengthen her Immune System or Kefir slowly introduce the Kefir to her diet daily if you can’t get a dog probiotic…

That’s a myth spread on the internet that starchy carbs like potatoes, rice, oats etc causes yeasty ears, skin & paws in dogs, yeast only happens if the dog is sensitive to an ingredient he/she’s eating then yes they will get yeasty ears, skin & paws here’s the link below written by a Dermatologist Karen Helton Rhodes.. go on her Face Book page called
“Canine Skin Solutions” ask her questions she’s a Dermatologist..
Please click & read this link below, it tells you about all the “Myths & Fact about Yeast Dermatitis In Dogs” & how Witch Hazel, Tree Oil & Peroxide are all very TOXIC when used on dogs, you can smell that they’re toxic so the smell would be 10 times stronger for a dog… baths are the best to do, bath twice a week then weekly when she starts getting better baths relieve the itchy skin & wash off any allergens that’son the skin & paws & I use creams, creams bring instant relief to red irratated itchy skin, my vet recommended I use these creams on Patch as he couldnt take alot of the medications that are given to itchy dogs also I’d rather apply a cream then give any drugs to my boy, he’s 9 yrs old in Novemeber & he’s in excellent condition for a 9 yr old dog, beautiful shinny coat, white teeth no tarter, acts like a young pup, he has NO arthritis yet, so I must be doing something right, when I rescued him he was 1 big mess, it was awful the condition he was in..
http://www.healthyskin4dogs.com/blog/2015/9/8/facts-myths-about-yeast-dermatitis-in-dogs

[Susan]

Hi Debbera,
Please be careful feeding fish dog foods, the brands & formula’s you have mentioned have tested 10 times higher the recommend dose for toxins & contaminate’s when these fish formula’s were tested both times the is yeay April & August both fish formula’s have come back very high in toxins & contaminates…..google “Toxins in pet foods” & the **** links will come up…
brands like Trudog, Great Life, “Canidae”, Dogswell, I & love & you, Pet Pride Kroger, Buckly Liberty all rated very well in both pet food testings…. it was their chicken, lamb & Beef formula’s…. The Fish formula’s seems to be very very high in toxins, no good for a dog with IBD, IBS or any health problems…

This happened with my IBD boy, his vet & I couldn’t work out why Patch was doing really then after I being introduced to American fish formula’s then around 3 months while eating these fish formula’s he would go down hill with all 3 different American fish brands he was eating, they didn’t have any ingredients he was sensitive too so it wasnt food intolerances cause I had done an food elimination diet the 12 months before & knew what ingredients he was sensitive too & avoided these ingredients, so we couldn’t work out what was wrong, then this year I read about some fish pet food being very high in toxins & seen these 3 brands/formula’s in the worse top 10 formula’s first & second testing list, they were 10 times higher the recommended amount for toxins & contaminates, I felt so bad I was poisoning my boy slowly……..now the only fish Patch gets is human grade Australian caught or NZ fish that I eat & his “K-9 Natural” freeze dried green lipped Mussels from New Zealand, he’s been doing heaps better with his IBD now & hasnt had another IBD flare since I’ve stopped feeding American fish kibbles……

When a dog is having mucus bloody soft poos normally means she is sensitive/intolerant to an ingredient in the formula she’s eating, Patch was doing condom poos I called them, looked like a condom was wrapped around his poos, or jelly poo’s, no vet diets worked for him, alot vet diets are higher in insoluble fiber & very low soluble fiber making poos slop cow pattie poo’s, later I worked out this is why some of these vet diet formula’s were not working & helping Patches IBD, vets don’t really know whats in these vet diets, I knew more then all of Patches vet knew about the vet diets they were recommending, then finally I read TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon formula’s were working for a lot of IBD & EPI dogs, these formula’s both are lower in fiber at 3%max but the TOTW Salmon formula kept making Patch vomit straight after he ate the salmon kibble then he was eating it again, I didnt know this cause I wouldn’t be home some times but I kept seeing a wet patch on the carpet then the cat dob him in one day she was burying nothing on the carpet that’s when I clicked, vomit was there & Patch was quickly eating the un digested kibbles back up leaving a wet spot on carpet, his poos were excellent within 2 days nice firm solid poos, then this year I seen this fish brand foods that made him vomit was on the highest toxins 2nd list testing & finally worked out why Patch was going down hill when he ate fish kibbles..

If you keep having problems with your girl then a cooked diet is probably best to feed even if 1 meal is cooked & 1 other meals are kibble, a few of the IBD/EPI groups the dogs are doing really well the “4health” Sensitive Care, Sensitive Stomach formula it has just Egg & Potato so very easy to break down & digest or the 4Health Sensitive Skin formula it has pea flour & hydrolzed Salmon, so the hydrolyzed salmon has been broken down for the dog, so very easy to digest good for diogs with IBD, in both formula’s the fat & protein isn’t really high, alot of dogs with IBD need lower fiber & protein diets & 4Health has all this… worth a try if your girl still not well, also the “Canidae” Pure Meadow Senior is really good for senior dogs & has all the supplements needed for aging dogs.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[poodaddy]

The below was a response to a thread created in the “Trolls and Spam” area of this forum. It was loosely related to a perception that a raw dog food model may be a homeopathic method. So the response below was generated. I thought those of you interested in this raw food thread may also be interested in the below response to anan101.

October 11, 2017 at 3:32 pm
#105078

@anon101

I think this new thread and discussion is probably suited for a different area of the web site, since I think this area is for Reporting Trolls and Spam. If you can let me know where to jump to, we can do that. Perhaps there will be others interested in the “homeopathic” thread, which I have no perspective on, am ignorant about, do not have time to get into at this time, and is unrelated to anything I am doing.

After visiting the link you sent and there appears to be some confusion about what I am doing versus your area(s) of interest. My area of focus has zero to do with homeopathic interests in any way. I am developing a Nutrition Model (computer application) that is based on the latest canine nutrition design criteria I can find, every variable I can find and understand that professional canine nutritionists use for the planning, designing and implementing of “raw dog food”. I am on a quest to demystify the subject using my mathematical, Excel, and research skills to (eventually) open the world of raw dog food menu development and analysis to ANYONE interested in the subject.

In a separate area of interest, I have been cataloging as a test group of two (my dogs) the Vet-identified issues they had one year ago versus the Vet-confirmed mitigation or elimination of those issues as a result of recorded actions I have taken – most of which are raw dog food preparation since March 2017. This will be the subject of personally authored technical articles (for the future due to time constraints).

In short, my project addresses the ingredients, metrics, and nutrition stats associated with self-manufacturing “Raw Dog Food” vs buying “Commercially Mass-Produced Dog Food”. It is a very interesting subject that is also very detailed, analytical, and inter-related with post-feeding data capture such as weekly weigh-ins, trends of grams of food per batch, and documenting observed changes that can be correlated with a raw food diet.

I am already addressing much of this elsewhere on this DogFoodAdvisor forum. Perhaps you would like to participate or not. My next action is the nutrition analysis of KevinB’s post in Jan 2017 asking for comments on his menu. I am testing the veracity of my model (in progress) against his menu and will report out the micronutrition and vitamin information from the model (in a week or so).

I am not selling raw dog food preparation to anyone. In fact, I am cataloging the level of effort, skills, process, equipment, hygiene, and so on, of everything related to raw dog food preparation at home. I am a scientist, an engineer, and businessman addressing solutions to disinformation, misinformation, fog of lack of information, and or professional greed that keeps information from everyday people who need to know how to address their questions and resolve them for themselves related to raw dog food. This will be my contribution this year.

[poodaddy]

I think this new thread and discussion is probably suited for a different area of the web site, since I think this area is for Reporting Trolls and Spam. If you can let me know where to jump to, we can do that. Perhaps there will be others interested in the “homeopathic” thread, which I have no perspective on, am ignorant about, do not have time to get into at this time, and is unrelated to anything I am doing.

After visiting the link you sent and there appears to be some confusion about what I am doing versus your area(s) of interest. My area of focus has zero to do with homeopathic interests in any way. I am developing a Nutrition Model (computer application) that is based on the latest canine nutrition design criteria I can find, every variable I can find and understand that professional canine nutritionists use for the planning, designing and implementing of “raw dog food”. I am on a quest to demystify the subject using my mathematical, Excel, and research skills to (eventually) open the world of raw dog food menu development and analysis to ANYONE interested in the subject.

In a separate area of interest, I have been cataloging as a test group of two (my dogs) the Vet-identified issues they had one year ago versus the Vet-confirmed mitigation or elimination of those issues as a result of recorded actions I have taken – most of which are raw dog food preparation since March 2017. This will be the subject of personally authored technical articles (for the future due to time constraints).

In short, my project addresses the ingredients, metrics, and nutrition stats associated with self-manufacturing “Raw Dog Food” vs buying “Commercially Mass-Produced Dog Food”. It is a very interesting subject that is also very detailed, analytical, and inter-related with post-feeding data capture such as weekly weigh-ins, trends of grams of food per batch, and documenting observed changes that can be correlated with a raw food diet.

I am already addressing much of this elsewhere on this DogFoodAdvisor forum. Perhaps you would like to participate or not. My next action is the nutrition analysis of KevinB’s post in Jan 2017 asking for comments on his menu. I am testing the veracity of my model (in progress) against his menu and will report out the micronutrition and vitamin information from the model (in a week or so).

I am not selling raw dog food preparation to anyone. In fact, I am cataloging the level of effort, skills, process, equipment, hygiene, and so on, of everything related to raw dog food preparation at home. I am a scientist, an engineer, and businessman addressing solutions to disinformation, misinformation, fog of lack of information, and or professional greed that keeps information from everyday people who need to know how to address their questions and resolve them for themselves related to raw dog food. This will be my contribution this year.

[poodaddy]

@ anon101

Yup, your advice is good. I am seeing some interesting communications behavior from people, particularly since I have not been an internet surfer or forum person. It is possible this forum may not be the place for my interests, but it may end up being a good place to converse about the project I am doing or peripheral subjects that arise. I know there some very knowledgeable people I have already met and who provided links that have moved my project forward (sources of data that professional consultants would not even give me), so that is a good thing. My interests are primarily science of the model and industry-leading sources of the data to move the model toward a fact-based objective system that can function as the start of the raw food nutrition planning AND be a source of in-progress implementation of a customized raw dog food menu. I am using the model as an analytical tool to evaluate a menu posted in the homemade section and that should be an interesting dialog once I have the nutrition data researched. If people get weird (unprofessional), I will follow your advice and ignore them.

[Susan]

Hi Kevin,
I’ve been feeding “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb now 2 yrs with great results, my boy has IBD, Skin Allergies & Food Intolerances to chicken & other ingreients, I’ve tried all the Vet Diets & other foods on the market for 2 long years & finally TOTW was the only food that helped Patches IBD (Sloppy Poos) + his Skin allergies (itchy, smelly paws & skin from food sensitivities chicken), even on facebook groups where dogs are sick Diamond kibbles seem to work the best for these dogs, maybe Diamond as been around longer & understands a dogs needs especially when they are suffering with food sensititivies, diarrhea, itchy skin etc, I don’t know but I read alot of really good results on these F/B groups….. “4Health” is another really good food made by Diamond where I’m reading very good results especially 4Health Special Care range Senstive Stomach Egg & Potatoes has no Chicken…also I’ve had really good results with “Canidae” Pure Formula’s.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products scroll down a bit look to your right & click on “View All” & pages 3 onwards have the start of the Canidae Pure range, grain free limited Ingredients kibbles, have to read each formula as they all vary.

It will all depend on your dog but alot of these really high meat protein & higher fat kibbles which have alot of different meat/organ proteins & ingredients are not agreeing with dogs who have allergies & food intolerances, some of these dogs can’t seems to handle too many different ingredients all at once I have found, so stick with kibbles that don’t have too many different ingredients but have really good ingredients, TOTW Sierra Mountain just has Lamb as the only meat protein, the only other thing I need to warn if you don’t already know is STAY away from fish kibbles as some of these American fish kibbles are 10 times higher in Toxins & Contaminates, if you want to add fish to your dogs diet buy human grade fish that you would eat like tin sardines in spring water, tin salmon in spring water, Freeze Dried Green Lipped Mussels are excellent to give as daily treats, don’t feed a kibble that’s has fish in it, these pet food companies wouldn’t be sourcing premium cuts of salmon or whitefish etc they would be buying the cheapest off cuts of fish they can find to use for pet foods & it’s sad, laws need to change so this stops happening & pet food compaines need to start testing all their pet foods & make sure they pass & aren’t 10 times higher in toxins & contaminates & a stamp then needs to be put on the front of the kibble & wet tin foods saying this food has been tested, it will happen 1 day but probably not in our life time ….
another thing once you do pick a kibble pick 2 different brands you’re happy with slowly introduce 1 of them & then start rotating between 2 different brands so your dog doesn’t start reacting to another ingredient in his/her food & he’s not eating the same ingredients 24/7 he has a few different ingredients in his diet, it doesnt have to be too many ingredients as long as he’s not just eating 1 meat protein & say Lentils & Chickpeas in his diet 24/7 for teh rest of his/her life….

[aimee]

I understand your point from a dog owner education standpoint but personally I just can’t bring myself to blame her.. it was a tragic event.

As for the company… something isn’t right here. Size aside if the chew that led to that dogs death tests out as rawhide ( I thought i read the actual chew was being tested) I think she has a valid court case.

[Susan]

Hi Angel B,
Sorry to hear about your pup, but did you SLOWLY introduce the new food?? when you try a new kibble you have to slowly introduce over 7-10 day period to get the dog use to the new ingredients, when a dog has food sensitivities to an ingredient this can cause sloppy poo, wind pain, gas, bloody poos, diarrhea…Read the ingredient list there will be an ingredient he is very sensitive/intolerant too this happened when I rescued my boy….
This is why it’s best to rotate between a few different brands that have different ingredients so your dogs get use to eating different ingredients & strengthen their immune system so they can eat all types of foods… I hope he gets better, the vet will send him home with some Metronidazole tablet & a vet diet probably Hills I/d Digestive Care, Chicken & Vegetable Stew is good easy to digest when stomach & bowel is tender..

[Susan]

Hi Sade.
Your dog might have Seasonal Environment Allergies & Food sensitivities the 2 normally come together & as the dog ages the allergies get worse not better…

Have a look at “Canidae”Pure Petite, Small Breed formula’s or there’s Pure Sea, Pure Wild, Pure Land formula’s, Canidae kibble size is nice, small & easy to digest you will see a big improvemnet with the skin, most of the Pure formula’s are chicken FREE
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products. I’ve read that chicken fat has no protein in it, & the protein is what the dog reacts too… but when they have both Food & Environment allergies it’s hard to work out what is causing what? So Elimination Food Diet is best to do in teh colder months not Spring Summer or Autunm too many allergens..

Baths the best to do, are you bathing twice a week too wash off the allergen’s on paws & skin? I have found “Malaseb: medicated shampoo to be very good, it kills any bacteria & yeast that’s on the paws & skin, puts moisture back into the skin & makes skin nice & soft, I also use Hydrocortisone 1% cream when paws are red & itchy at night you check all over dogs body & paws look for any red irritated paws & skin look inbetween toes & pad lightly apply some hydrocotisone 1% cream, by morning paws will be all clear again, then I use “Sudocrem” before Patch goes outside for walks etc, Sudocrem is for Dermtitis, Eczema, Nappy Rash & acts as a barrier & protects the skin & paws, really good thick cream, Amazon or Ebay sell Sudocrem & the Malaseb medicated shampoo..
Start keeping a diary & write everything down, as te years pass you well start to see a patten & can work out if it is Seasonal Allrgies, another really good food to add to diet is Green Lipped Mussels chwy sells teh “K-9 Natural”Green Lipped freeze Dried Mussels give 1-2 mussels a day as treats, Mussels are high in Omega 3, EPA & DHA

You need to keep on top of things & with the weekly baths or bath as soon as he starts licking & chewing paws with the Malaseb Shampoo to relieve his itchy paws & skin, diet high in Omega 3 faty acid, applying creams & using baby wipes to wipe skin, fur & paws down after ghe comes back instide & when you dont want to bath you’ll start controling the problem, but allergies don’t get better…
A really good Face Book group to join is “Dog Issues, Allergies & Other Information Support Group” there’s a Dermatologist in the group Karen Helton Rhodes she also has her own site called “Canine Skin Solutions inc”