[Dori]

Dog Obsessed. I’ve been giving Hannah glucosamine/chondroitin for a number of years twice a day two hours after both her meals. I give her her Denamarin (both for her liver and as an anti-inflammatory) one to one and a half hours BEFORE her p.m. meal. A number of months back I started adding a glucosamine/chondroitin at bedtime since I knew she hadn’t had anything to eat in a number of hours. I don’t give any treats of any sort after 9:00 pm (I feel their guts need a little resting time instead of constantly having to digest food). She’s been doing very well with three times a day. If you’re only giving once a day then you can start on the twice a day and see how your dog does. If you’re going to add the bed time one then I would wait on that one for a while to make sure your dog isn’t getting loose stools or diarrhea. I introduce supplements very slowly and once I realize they’re doing well, then I up the supplements. And so on and so on.

[theBCnut]

As far as a joint supplement goes, it is definitely trial and error to see what works with what dog. Try that one and see if you can tell a difference. One hint on cost savings, horse joint supplements are cheaper. I really like one called Joint Armor and I get it from Jefferspet.com.

[Sadie’s Mom]

@ Nut – I guess I could do that. She always ends up on steroids in the winters because her back flares up. My parents probably couldn’t afford them year round. My dad got a new job a took a significant pay cut, so nice things are somewhat unattainable. Would the regular glucosamine chondritin supplements work? And if so what strength?

@ Dog Obsessed – All four were actually on Victor Grain Free Yukon River formula, but it ended up being too expensive. My parents went back to Beneful, but I’ve just about talked them into buying Evolve from the local HEB. It’s a 4 star food with no corn, wheat, or soy, which seem to trigger one of the dogs allergies. The dogs won’t eat Merrick for some reason. I haven’t looked at the Pure Balance though. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Dori]

Hi Dog Obsessed. As I stated earlier to Akari, Glucosamine/chontroitin can be given one hour before meals or two hours after a meal. Not one hour after a meal. Also, I give Hannah her Glucosamin/Chondroitin twice a day. Denamarin only once a day sometime mid day (at least a couple of hours after breakfast) but you can give it in the evenings at least a couple of hours after dinner. Doesn’t make any difference. Try not to miss any doses, it does make a difference.

Akari. There are really very good glucosamine/chondroitin supplements that are chewable and also Denamarin chewables. There’s no way that I could get Hannah to eat a supplement without food that wasn’t a chewable. If you need any suggestions I can give you a list of the glucosamine/chondroitins that I give Hannah. As the the Denamarin, I buy the chewable type. I look on line for the list expensive site and that’s where I buy it. Denamarin is the brand name and that’s the one I use. Let me know if you need suggestions on the Glucosamine/Chondroitin.

Akari. As far as weight is concerned, Hannah’s ideal weight would be 8 lbs. for her size and height and age. I keep her at 7.3 lbs. as best I can. If she weighs more than that then she starts having a bit more of trembling in her back legs and a bit of a limp. At the 7.3 lbs. her legs do not tremble and she doesn’t limp. Weight is a big issue for the arthritic be they animals or humans.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by Dori.

[theBCnut]

I can’t help with brands, but just a piece of info. She is more likely to have issues in the winter with the colder weather, so leave her food the same next summer and save the money for joint supplements for winter. Could your parents afford a joint supplement, which is usually cheaper than changing to better foods anyways?

[Dori]

Hi Akari. Sorry, I don’t know how I missed this entire thread other than to say life gets crazy around the holidays.

You mentioned that Ginger weighs 11.2 lbs. Has you vet told you what her optimum weight should be? It is very very important to keep dogs that have musculoskeletal problems on the thin and trim side. Every added ounce overweight adds to their pain and discomfort.

But this is really what I wanted to tell you. You say that you are dumping the glucosamine/chondroitin in her food. Glucosamine/Chondroitin should never be given with food. It most definitely needs to be given either one hour before food or two hours after. Otherwise it WILL NOT WORK! That is one of the main reasons why foods that are marketed as being good for dogs with arthritis and contain glucosamine/chondroitin don’t work. They also don’t put enough in to be beneficial but even if they did, the supplement must be given one hour before meals or two hours after twice a day or more often if indicated. That could very well be the reason you are not seeing any improvement with Ginger even though you are giving her the supplement.

Just trying to help.

If you do decide to go with the Purina JM you still need to give the supplement one hour before her meals or two hours after. I don’t have an opinion on the food. Obviously you know it’s not a great food by anyone’s definition but you have financial constraints and are doing the best your pocket book will allow. She’s a senior dog that you don’t have a lot of history about. If you can find one single food that she does well on, give her the supplement the way it is suppose to be given, then I would do that for the remainder of her life. The object is to find some quality to her life. It’s not about how many years you can add to her life, the concern is how well she gets to live the time she has left in her life. She obviously has musculoskeletal issues, she’s had them since you got her and since there’s no way to really know what happened to her before you got her to know what exactly is wrong with her or to do expensive CT scans, X-rays, MRI’s, surgeries, if they are indeed called for, you do the best you can through a food that doesn’t upset her digestive system and give her supplements. My advice to you would be, for right now, to keep her on the Wellness that you are feeding her before you switch her food since her tummy seems to be doing better and start the supplement as it’s suppose to be given and see it it makes a difference. I think it will. Another supplement that you can give her, if money allows you to, is Sam-e. Though it’s marketed as a liver support supplement it is a great anti-inflammatory. You would still need to give her the glucosamin/chondroitin. Sorry my post is so long I was just upset with myself for not noticing your thread on this issue and just happened to catch the sentence where you mention putting the supplement in her food bow.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by Dori.

[crazy4cats]

If you google Victor dog food, they have a dealer locater link. I’m on my iPad right now and don’t know how to copy and paste the link. How embarrassing! I only have one store in my area that carries a limited supply. I have to call a week in advance so they can order it for me if they don’t have it in stock. Otherwise, yes, Amazon, Sport Dog and RocketPetz carries it. The supplements, I have ordered both from Amazon. I have fed Blue Wilderness a few years back with pretty good results, but was a bit too expensive for our family. Besides, after reading ingredients, they all are mostly chicken anyway. I have fed my kitties Wellness, but not the dogs. It’s pretty expensive for two 80 pounders.

You didn’t mention if you have had a fecal test done. Worms and/or parasites can cause loose stools as well. Make sure you rule those out as well.

The Firm Up is dehydrated pumpkin and pectin and the Perfect Form contains some enzymes and slippery elm which are very helpful for unhappy intestines. Also probiotics can be helpful as well. Such as Vetri-Pro BD by Vetri Science is recommended.

Oh boy, good luck. I remember how overwhelming this advise can be. Just try one new thing at a time to see if it is helpful. I often change a couple of things at a time and I never know what caused the improvement or the decline.

[MARK k]

Thanks crazy4cats for the info. Where can you get Victor and those supplements . . . I see Victor is at Amazon, but didn’t know if it’s available at any stores. Have you had any luck with Wellness or Blue?

[crazy4cats]

I have two lab mix dogs and have had the same issue. I have had the best luck with Victor grain free food so far. I also use various supplements that are very helpful. Such as Firm Up and The Perfect Form. Also, when I add either a couple frozen Nature’s variety Instinct raw nuggets or The Honest Kitchen dehydrated as a topper, it also helps. I think it is because of the added fiber that helps firm up the stools.

Please check out http://www.dogaware.com for some very helpful information on loose stools. It has been an extremely valuable resource for me!

Please feel free to write back with any questions or comments.

[Alexandria A]

I’m aware that some allergies could be driven tour the environment but being my dogs never had this Issue before I know it is from either the east starvation recipe or the supplements. As far as the box saying that there is customer service that our nutritional veterinarian assistance or whatever they call it it doesn’t really seem that these people have much knowledge on the product or on any type of recipes as I have called I have been getting really limited information. I honestly and going with my instincts here and I feel as though the customer service really doesn’t care about the customers or the dogs health it is a little suspicious that they have customer service from 9 AM to 5 PM that tells me that they must have a lot of people calling with issues from the supplements.

Since both my dogs never had this type of issue before I will never use this product again.

[Alexandria A]

I did the yeast starvation diet. Got the dinovite supplements. BAD MISTAKE. I feel terrible about this choixe. My Maltese and frenxh bulldog went from pooping 3x a day to once. The maltese has kept me up two nights vomiting. I followed instructions on proper feeding measurements as well as suppleness. Day four was vomiting all over house. Day 5 was canned pumpkins to help stomach issues. And today is 3am doggie vomiting all over our bedroom.

[InkedMarie]

I wouldn’t feed that at all. Brewers rice and the first ingredient? Corn gluten meal? Animal digest? These are the makings of a crap food. There are many supplements & drugs to use for joint issues. Grains are inflammatory, making this a poor choice.

[Bobby dog]

Yes, the end of a semester is both a blessing and a curse! 😉

If my dog was ill I would think outside of the box and certainly try different approaches to ease pain and discomfort. An Rx food would not be out of the question and I have fed them in the past! I really can’t comment on this food other than the reviews I read about it. BTW, the comments I read weren’t from the Purina website. lol I was looking into some supplements for my friend’s dog that has been a little stiff.

Deals are wonderful, but you need to consider Ginger’s health and comfort. Senior pet care can be pricey. My senior horse’s supplements are almost triple the price of my younger horse’s. That’s a decent price for Rx food IMO.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Akari:
I can’t get onto the sight to check it out.

At 14 rotating her food would be the last thing I would be concerned with. Finding a diet that agrees with her and sticking with it would be my priority. I hope you get her to a Vet soon for a check-up; sounds like she is uncomfortable and might need prescribed medication.

I don’t know of anyone who has used this for their dogs. However, I have read reviews from owners who have tried various over the counter supplements and foods without any improvements who fed this food with good results.

[crazy4cats]

Hi linda h-
Congratulations on your new puppy! I’m sorry you are having some issues though. Have you had a fecal test done? My lab puppies ended up with Giardia and then Coccidia when they were puppies. That can cause intermittent loose stools and they were constantly hungry. Make sure that you have a test done that is sent out to a lab as these parasites are sometimes hard to detect. I am concerned that I/D is an adult maintenance food and would not supply the nutrients needed for a puppy.
Have you tried adding any plain canned pumpkin or any type of supplements to help with the diarrhea?
Check out http://www.dogaware.com. It has a lot of information and remedies for digestive disorders. It sounds as if you will have to feed him Hill’s brand food so I’m not really familar with all their foods and wouldn’t be able to recommend any. I sure hope you get this figured out. Good luck!

[Juliet C]

My border collie has skin issues. The vet was of no help and order £100’s on blood test etc. Apart from keeping him free of fleas obviously I went down the line of possible food allergies. Plus when we bath him we use ordinary dandruff shampoo. After 6 months of constant scratching, rolling and the rest an incredibly itchy dog does. We settled a cheap brand of supermarket dog food out of desperation and their also cheap mixer. It turns out our boy can’t handle all the the fancy additives and supplements that the expensive brands contain. He comes from a long line of farm dogs. That were basically fed on what was available. Table scraps, sheep pellets. Rabbits shot on the farm. So sometimes its ok to go back to the basics. We thought we were doing right by the poor dude by giving him the high life food wise. Instead we were hurting him. I threw out the stuff the farmer gave me thinking it was crap. I learnt a lesson!

[Dori]

Hi Jake. I keep my dogs on HW (Sentinel Spectrum) year round because I live in Atlanta, Georgia. Weather is unpredictable in what is supposedly the cooler (winter) months. Last week we had a couple of days below freezing, bird baths frozen, all the winter stuff. Last few days has been in the upper 60’s and a couple of days in the low 70’s. To keep my girls safe I keep them on HW meds all year every 30 days. We’ve been in Georgia for the passed 13 years. Before that we lived in the Northeast (NJ, NY, Conn. and Cape Cod). Because the winters were completely predictable and freezing all winter long I did last HW October and nothing again until May. I think you would have to judge what your weather is. If you really have consistent old time winter weather then I guess you could keep him off for the winter months which I would do just to keep some of these chemicals out of his system and give his system a bit of a break. HW test is just the one time of year. Take some really really choice treats with you to the vet that he absolutely would do anything for. Before they come in to take blood work and while they are chit chatting with you you could just get his attention with the pieces of chicken, liver, whatever you want (no actual store bought treats or kibble….that’s not special enough) and just give him little tiny pieces as the entire process goes on. Eventually he should think of it as a good experience as opposed to the nightmarish type experience he had in the Spring. It’s worth the one time experience to keep him off HW for a few months. Just my opinion.

Let me also add that I take my dogs to the vet for a yearly physical and yearly blood work anyway. I’ve done that with every dog (there have been many…I’m 66 years old). If something is going on with them I want to know sooner rather than later. Trying to catch anything serious that may not be outwardly visible and keep track of all their levels and if anything has changed since the year before so they are accustomed to having the bloodwork draw anyway. Through the years I have found that things were going on that I would never have been aware of if not for the blood work. I was then able to start working with nutrition and supplements more geared to the issue.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Alicia A]

There are a lot of questions out there about supplements, minerals, probiotics and what to feed dogs.
I have my dog on a raw food diet and add in supplements which are natural and she is thriving.
Highly recommend checking out the following website; http://www.peterdobias.com
There is some great (free!) information on taking care of our dogs naturally and some original products along with other brands that are recommended for a range of things including proactively taking care of dog’s health and also what to consider when there are issues.

[Jan T]

Hi,
I’m new here and need some help with all these ratios, etc. I have an 11 week old GSD who started out on Fromm Gold large breed puppy. She had some a bacterial infection in her gut that we had to treat while she was on this. The vet suggested we try Eukanuba large breed puppy, but she doesn’t like it so much. She is always scratching, so think she may have allergies. So question: should I get vitamin supplements, leave her on Eukanuba or go back to Fromm or something else? Whatever we do, it will be gradual. If supplements, any suggestions?

[CSollers]

I got lazy that last couple of days and didn’t add the green lipped mussels, Mobility Essentials, aOmega oils and other supplements to my senior Pug’s dinners and he could hardly move this morning. I feel terrible.

[Kelsi P]

Hi there- I know you posted this a while ago, but I just stumbled across this post. I had the same problem with my dog as a puppy. Unexplained chronic diarrhea, having to make a bowel movement several times per day (5+ per day!), etc. We went through tests (bacteria, parasite/amoeba, fungal) antibiotics, food changes, enteric support supplements- the whole gamut. The vet couldn’t figure it out…. He was put on a prescription diet for a short while and while it helped calm things down (with the combination of flagyl), it didn’t stop. Nothing worked until I switched my dog to raw food. Seriously- the bloody diarrhea, gastric upset, vomiting, etc., stopped within a few weeks. Maybe it’s worth a try for your dogs? I am lucky in that my vet is open to raw diets and she hasn’t said anything negative because it’s helped my dog. My dog simply cannot handle any kind of kibble, regardless of the make and recipe. Good luck to ya.

[pugmomsandy]

There are several supplements I like to give to seniors (and adults): joint, greens, ubiquinol, fish oil, bee pollen, probiotics.

[InkedMarie]

Rich, a relatively healthy senior dog needs more protein than younger dogs:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/05/surprising-findings-from-tufts-study-of-37-senior-dog-foods.aspx

there is a good article to read. My seniors eat the same as the other dogs, they just get added supplements (I just posted in your other thread)

[Cynthia R]

My 12.5 year old boxer had advanced arthritis in his knees and began staggering. We had to put up a baby gate around stairs because he staggered and fell down them:-(.
You may want to consider adding fish oil to his daily supplements.
My vet had our boy on 3 grams of fish oil daily (helps with joints along with many other benefits, so all my dogs are given this daily), loading dose of glyco-flex lll (our vet also likes phycox), prevacox, tramadol as needed the last year of his life. I raised him on a grain-free diet(raw).

[Dog_Obsessed]

Pumpkin has greatly helped Lily with constipation, and from what I know it also helps with diarrhea because of the balance of fiber. Also, I think supplements like THK Perfect Form could help.

[Mom2Cavs]

Steve, you really are already feeding a top-notch food. And giving her the supplements is the right thing to do, as well. You might want to switch to Fromm’s 4Star line and use their grain frees. I have 3 seniors and a new 9 month old pup and all of mine are eating Fromm 4Star, atm. I’m alternating between Lamb & Lentils, Salmon Tunalini and Pork and Peas. I’m also topping with Stella and Chewy’s meal mixers, the Salmon, Turkey and Beef. I think you are doing good things, already, for her. Maybe someone with more knowledge can post.

[Steve L]

I am giving her the following meds and supplements by Vet prescription.

Carprofen 100 mg 1/2 tab every 12 hours (anti-inflamatory??)
Tramadol 50 mg 1 every 12 hours (pain??)
Thyroxine .6 mg 1 every 12 hours (thyroid – for past 6 years)

Glucosamine/Chondroitin 1500/1200 mg per day.

Tried Fromms Senior – she likes and eats well. No wet food – but she does lick plates – a dog biscuit twice a day (lunch & bed). We used to take 1-2 mile walks every day but recent pain, and the increased staggering in rear have severely cut into walks. She has been steady at 60 pounds for the last 7 years.

[InkedMarie]

I soak got however long it takes to get my raw fed dogs food ready & add supplements. If you are on FB, message Farmina there, you’ll get a faster response.

C4C, the calories/feeding amounts are on the bag, I can’t find them on the site but I feed less.

[dakcmumm]

Thank you all for your inputs. I am the mommy of 2 mini dachshunds. My Sophie is 12 years old and Louis (rescued in April of this year) is 8. I have been feeding Sophie Lotus grain free kibble turkey and fish and Louis Merrick canned food. Louis has no teeth left due to neglect prior to his adoption. Louis has very bad odor everytime I kiss him and he sheds like crazy. Also his eyes always have some kind of discharge. Even though Sophie’s health is OK, I still think that she is not at her best. Sophie licks her paws a lot and needs to loose a few pounds. Anyway, after I read Dr. Martin Goldstein’s and Dr. Pirtcain’s books I cried so much and decided to switch my babies to raw food. I have been looking for supplements and was tempted to order Dinovite. But I stopped after I read your reviews on this forum.
Thank you again for extending yourself and post your experiences with the product so that other people can learn from you. I am so desperate now to what supplement I should try. I know there is no perfect of anything. But I want to educate myself as much as possible and find a good enough supplement that I want to try on my babies. I will give them a fast starting tomorrow before switch them over to raw food diet.
I am a new member to this forum. I will talk to all of you again soon.

[theBCnut]

I can’t answer all your questions, but I’ll try to answer some. First, there is no guarantee that your cat will eat raw. They can be kind of peculiar about switching types of food, so the first thing to try is to switch the cat to canned food. Pick up dry food and allow the cat to get hungry, not starving, just hungry, and then offer canned food. If kitty eats it, great!! If not, after an hour, offer the dry food for 20 minutes, then pick it up. Next meal time, offer canned food first again. You may have to offer quite a number of times before she will eat it, or you may be one of the lucky ones. Once you have your cat on all canned food, start the process over again switching to raw.

There are many people that do not give any supplements, but they are the ones that need to be really careful to feed whole prey raw. Your dog might not eat kale, but if they eat an herbivore, they will be getting predigested greens that the food animal ate. You can predigest your own choice of veggies but blanching and pureeing.

You can also feed turkey and fish, so beef, pork, chicken, turkey, and fish are plenty of different proteins, and maybe a few times a year you can find lamb.

I use premixes +-3 days a week and no premix the rest of the time. I want to be sure to cover my bases.

Soup bones are not RMBs. RMBs are bones that are soft and can be completely eaten at meal time. Ribs from lamb, pork, or calves are good RMBs. So are neck bones from those same animals. All parts of chicken and turkey have good bones in them too. You should be able to get heart and liver and maybe kidney for organs. Maybe you can occasionally get some whole prey, even whole prey grinds, from Hare Today or My Pet Carnivore, to make up for not feeding other organs.

You can feed grinds to your cat, if you make sure they have heart in them, or add a taurine supplement. It her meats are frozen, you need to make sure the water that separates out as it defrosts is mixed back in, because that is where a lot of taurine is lost. I get whole carcass grinds from Hare Today for my cats, both rabbit and quail.

[Michael H]

Hi everyone!

We have 2 dogs:

Bernie, 9y M allergic-to-life Basset Hound
Zuli, 3y F Lab Mix

and our cat:
Sophie, 8y F Mackeral Tabby, borderline diabetic

Due to both Bernie and Sophie’s above issues, it seems like my best option at this point would be to try raw feeding. The dogs both enjoy the occasional chicken wing or turkey neck, but I have not yet tried feeding it as a whole diet. The cat, who was originally an outdoor stray who did hunt for her sustenance, does accept things like turkey and pepperoni, but for most of her life has been on dry food…which is probably why she had the October diagnosis for diabetes. She is near impossible to catch (the yearly vet visit can take us anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour to capture her-we’ve blocked off hiding spaces as we find them over the years, though once she actually broke INTO the wall to hide) and has a lack of scruff, and at this point I’m really fearing the ability to be able to administer insulin consistently. So, it seems that a diet change may be my only help with this. For Bernie, I can control what goes into the food, and avoid his allergens altogether.

I work from home, so cooking and preparing isn’t a big deal. I handle raw meat for my own consumption so that doesn’t bother me, and I’m very versed in the realm of preventing cross contamination.

My access to pastured/organic items is limited to either very far drives or possible home delivery (have to order a LOT at a time to make the shipping be affordable). For the delivery [ReelRaw] they do have a lot of variety, which is nice, but seems the most expensive option that I’ve come across ($300/mo for all pets, around 50lb of items, still cheaper than whole foods). I do have a butcher shop somewhat nearby, but the only organs they carry or process is beef heart, and the variety of RMB’s I can get aren’t much, as well as they do not carry any pastured/organic meats.

Upon my research, I’m finding a lot of conflicting information. It seems that on one side everyone is pro supplements to add to the meals, which I’m hesitant to do so, as I’m of the perspective to not take any synthetic or multivitamins myself since I feel I’m literally peeing the money away, and rather get what I need from whole foods. I know dogs cant digest fruit/veg well, as anytime I’ve given a piece I find it the next day pretty much intact in their waste. We do own a masticating juicer, so that is an option. I’ve come across some freeze dried foods (Big Dog Natural) that say they ferment the veg to make them bioavailable, which is interesting, though I’m unsure if it’s still too high-carb for Bernie. It could all be a bunch of hogwash as well. I do agree with adding omega 3/sardines at meal time, as I feel that the fats are too delicate for any processing procedure.

Then there’s all the premixes available with vitamins, minerals, kale, sweet potatoes, etc. (Urban Wolf, THK, SSLL Dinner Mix). It’s hard to find a premix without one of Bernie’s proposed allergens in it, and to be honest I’d rather keep the carb count for him down as much as possible, as Bassets are already yeast factories, and Sophie needs as little carb as possible-I don’t think I’ve come across mixes for cats anyways. What dog eats kale in the wild anyways? I have a hard time getting it down myself…lol.

On the other side, I’ve come across a few companies that don’t use added vitamins/minerals (Answers, ReelRaw), stating it’s complete/balanced as is, or with Answers, their own products they (conveniently) suggest to add, which is goat’s milk yogurt, or buy their combination product with veg, clay, cultured things, etc. Bernie is borderline allergic to cow dairy, so I’m unsure if he can even have that anyways. I’ve tried kefir with him before, but the yeast didn’t get any better, and would occasionally have putrid gas as well.

Bernie is currently on Orijen, which he does seem more energetic and less itchy, however the gas has been atrocious, and even though he’s not been really red and itchy on it, still is having a yeast issue (underarms, ears, back of legs). This is a dog that sleeps 14 hours a day on those areas, so not much air is circulating. The gas has gotten better by feeding him less of it, but it can still clear a room. I think it’s due to the lentils/chickpeas-while he’s not allergic to them, doesn’t mean he can digest them well.

So to end my novella for how, I’ll boil it down to some questions:

-Do you feel that the supplements are needed if I use the cheaper conventional meat from the butcher? Or would possibly they be getting enough if I splurge for the pastured meats/organs/rmb? It’s doubtful I can afford both the pastured and supplements.

-Do you feel premixes are worth it, and would make the conventional meat balanced? (again, may not be able to do both pastured + mixes)

-How important do you feel variety in meats is? If I shop locally, I only really have access to beef, chicken, and pork, which I myself am even tired of, haha. Most any recreational or RMB’s I can find in the area are meant for soups and have very little meat left on them. With delivery I can get many more options, but I pay out the wazoo for it.

-Would maybe just doing the freeze dried route be the best idea? Between the issues above and our cat, I’m also leaning towards this route. I’ve also heard that cats don’t dig cool meat very much, and as its the winter now I don’t want Sophie to lose any weight form refusing food. The 2 dogs will eat anything so I’m not worried there. I know I have to avoid giving Sophie all ground meat due to taurine loss. My wife also would rather rip off her eyebrows than touch raw meat, so if it comes a time when I cannot feed them, I’d have to have an alternative on hand anyways.

Thanks for any input!

[Naturella]

@cdubau, THK Perfect Form is a supplement, I can find it at my local pet boutique/specialty store, it is given in small amounts and here it sells for $1.59/pack. Lasts my 15-ish lb terrier mix about a week when given as directed twice a day. Really works miracles in the guts.

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/treats-supplements/supplements/perfect-form

Sells for $1.25 on the website, but I would probably go for the box of 16, just to have handy. Together your dogs will probably go through about 5 teaspoons/day or so, so close to a pack/day. The box of 16 will be enough for 2 weeks, to see how they do.

I try to keep about 2-3 packs at all times for just in case.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Naturella.

[arwyru24]

I worry about artificial vitamin supplements from China in the food. I worry about issues like Blue Buffalo was having wth not actually knowing what the people making the food were actually putting in it. Then I have to contend with what my cats will actually eat. And one is immuno compromised so raw isn’t an option and I don’t feel comfortable making my own food nor does that work well for my life style. I worry about over vaccinating and about under vaccinating. I just try to use my best judgment and do the best I can for my animals. It just complicates things when companies knowingly compromise our pets health and lives for the sake of profit maximization and you have to research everything you pick up off a shelf to feed your pet because it could potentially kill them very suddenly which is the worst because you have no time to fix it or slowly but surely over a little time.

[Karen J]

Okay, so she’s not getting a lot of treats because I’m so busy I haven’t been training her much. She only gets the supplements once a day.

But, what small kibble, grain free options do you think might be worth a try? You sound very much against BB, they are tiny bites and grain free. But she’s not eating them all of a sudden.

Now I’ve heard dogs do self fast. I’ve tried Orijen dry no go and too big and Merrick wet, wouldn’t touch it.

I haven’t found any pee puddles lately, that’s the good news 🙂

[theBCnut]

Are you maybe giving too many treats? She looks like a very small dog. If she is still pooping, she is still eating. Try cutting out the treats for a couple days. And try cutting back on the amount of supplements, in case they are decreasing her appetite. If her eating doesn’t pick up then, changing foods again may be what you need to do. My dogs didn’t like BB when I tried it, but that was years ago. Personally, I’ve heard too many stories of dogs getting bladder stones on it for me to want to feed it to a dog with crystals.

[Kersi B]

Hello everybody!

I am new here and tried to find some informations on my own, but I am lost…

I move from Germany to California this January and take my 6-year-old Chihuahua (3kg or 6,6p weight) with me.
He already has a light cardiac insufficiency, but the doc said that he doesn’t need any medicine yet.
Here in Germany I feed him with wet (in the late afternoon), dry (he has a extra bowl with some in case he is hungry) and own-cooked food (as often as I can instead of wet food). His treats are 100% dry meat only. And I give him Vitamin K1 and homeopathic Crataegus supplements to his food to strengthen his heart.
But none of the brands I am feeding him right now are available in the US.
So could you please help me to find the brands with the highest quality but affordable for a student? Thank you so much! <3 :*

• This topic was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Kersi B.

[Pat G]

Hi everyone, I have a Cavalier who has 25 different allergies and I have gone through many foods trying to find the right combination for her. This included Raw, Dehydrated, Kibble, Canned, you name it. When I got her at the age of 2 1/2 she was on a food called Dynamite Super Premium and had no problems, she was born and raised in Arizona. When I brought her to California her allergies exploded. Veterinarians say this is common. Had her tested and found she is allergic to 5 different foods, so the search began. Now I only took her off the the food she was used to because you get it from a Distributor and the shipping was killing me, I have since found a Distributor here in California. Since putting her back on that food and some of their supplements she has stopped itching, eye watering minimized, coat again shiny. All of my dogs are now on it and I am pleased with the results. I think taking a look at their website would be of benefit to you. http://www.dynamitespeciality.com. You can then decide for yourself. Their customer service is terrific and will answer any question you may have and can also help you find a distributor or maybe become one.

[Merry G]

I don’t understand how a dog’s BUN numbers can be elevated either by dehydration or a sign of kidney problems. You’d think that they wouldn’t even mention dehydration! He did tell me that she can live with it for quite some time before it worsens but didn’t say how quickly it can progress or what to watch for. She doesn’t really like the KD Science Diet and I found some dog food online that has low protein and I ordered a case hoping she’ll be happy eating it. I don’t mind making my own food for her. I’ve been boiling and crock potting chicken for her for more than a year because she decided regular dog food was beneath her “diva dignity.” I mix it with brown rice sometimes and she gets the broth and carrots too.
I like to squirt a bit of fish oil in her bowl but that dog can sniff it out and then she will not eat it!
I would have no problem cooking her whatever kind of food would be good for her I’m pretty much used to it now.

I read a paper written by a Vet about putting a dog on low protein food in the early stages of renal failure. His name is Kenneth Bovee, DVM, MmedSc, (Dept of Clinical Studies, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA.) It reads kind of dry and technical but I did my best to understand it. It seems that there’s quite a controversy about if a low protein diet actually helps but Vets have been told it works so they’ve been recommending it for a long time.
I’ve read about herbal supplements that can help the kidneys function better, or “cure” renal failure but I don’t believe there’s a cure!

I appreciate all your feedback and I hope that I can help Sage live the rest of her time with us in a painless, quality way. I still marvel at what a dog can add to one’s life and how completely smitten we can become over them! I’ve had 4 boxers in my life and I’ve loved every one of them equally and my life was enriched by their love.

http://www.dogfoodscoop.com/support-files/bovee_protein_renal.pdf

[Amy H]

Thanks!
Bobby dog – from my initial research, I don’t necessarily need a low sodium diet so long as I keep his sodium intake consistent as it competes with the meds for absorption, so an increase in salt will lower the level of meds in his blood and a decrease in salt will increase his blood levels of the meds. But I will take a look at that list.
Susan – I will look for that book. Is your list of supplements from it?
BCnut (Patty Vaughn?) – his seizures started after eating the poison. He almost died. I don’t know what specific kind of poison. My vet has yet to see him or his chart, but in a pre-adoption phone conversation said that generally speaking, his concern with cutting back on KBr is that when you do that, if the seizures return they frequently no longer respond to the medication, so as long as he is free of side effects he would prefer to stick with what seems to be working. An article on canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels(dot)com advises waiting 1-2 years without seizures before phasing it out. But that might be geared toward idiopathic epilepsy, which of course we aren’t sure we are dealing with. I have 2 young 2-legged kids, and my daughter has asthma, so our house and yard are already pretty chemical-free.
This is a lot to take in. Hope I haven’t bit off too much!

[Susan]

Hi Amy, Im just reading Lew Olsons PhD, Raw & Natural Nutrition for dogs again, its a good book to have lying around, it has easy home cooked & raw recipes in the book she says this about Epilepsy: While the connection between grains & seizures is still being researched a number of studies suggest that feeding carbohydrates can increase the risks of seizure activity, either by making blood sugar level fluctuations more extreme or by causing allergic reactions due to gluten intolerance. The best defense is a fresh-food diet with low to mediun levels of fats, high levels of animal protein & few carbohydrates….

Supplements: Fish Oil, Vitamin E & digestive enzymes are all good supplements for dogs suffering from Epilepsy. Additionally adding a quality B complex vitamin has proven to fight seizures in both humans & animals. DMG made from a derivative of glycine has also shown promising results in slowing down or stopping seizure activity. For dogs the liquid form given by dropper in the gum line appears to work the best..
If you don’t mind making a few cooked meals she has 4 different Low-Fat Low Glycemic Diets for Epilepsy & what Supplements to add..

[Amy H]

I am adopting an epileptic lab mix rescue pup, 10 months old, and I am told about 60 lbs. I have looked over these forums and printed out a few articles from the Mercola site to bring to my first vet appt with him. Once he is settled in our home I will begin transitioning him to a higher protein, lower carb, grain free diet. The first bag I bought for that is EB Holistic Primitive Naturals. He is on KBr already, as he had multiple grand mal seizures after poison ingestion, but he has been seizure free for several months. I am looking for advice from others who have dealt with this – what worked for you, and what didn’t? I am not up to a raw diet, but herbals and supplements would be manageable within budgetary reason. I wonder whether a rotation diet is still advisable, since I need to worry about affecting his KBr blood levels with varying salt content in different foods. Most labels I’ve checked don’t list sodium content. I read through about 55 pages of the large & giant breed puppy food forum, and think he is old enough that I at least don’t need to worry about calcium content. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated!

[Karen J]

Here is the question are there grain free pill pockets out there I could use?

Okay, Trixie (the girl with the crystals) seems to be doing a little better, no grain d-mannose and Vit C however I keep having to change her food, she is terminally picky and giving her the supplements has become more difficult by the minute. She threw up last night or this morning and I believe I covered the supplements with so much cheese and chicken plus her food and grain free kibble with Stella and Chewy on it….and on and on. I think it was too much of everything.

[Zach M]

Yeah, I have heard of those supplements. I might try them. Thanks guys!

[Zach M]

Thanks guys for all the input. Dogfoodie, I was about to order some VE beef treats, the beef and beef tripe and lung etc. treats. I think I will order them, and thanks for the other suggestions guys. BC, any good ideas for Super food supplements?

[aimee]

Hi Peter,

I haven’t looked at Farmina so I can’t comment on the company/food. In regard to Nature’s Logic, the concept is appealing but because the foods do not have supplements they fall far short of AAFCO requirements. For example AAFCO min Vit D is 500 IU/kg and NL reports 175 IU/kg, AAFCO Vit E 50 IU/kg and NL reports 21.34 IU/kg.

In actuality though the nutrient content in most of NL formulas is unknown as the owner has told me he only tested one diet, the chicken variety, and then posted the same numbers with some minor variation for all the diets. I find that extremely irresponsible! UGH!!! One of the diets has been through AAFCO feed testing and the others use the family rule to substantiate the AAFCO label.

When I last inquired the person formulating the diets was the owner Scott Feeman. His degree is in marketing. In talking to him I found that he doesn’t understand very basic nutritional concepts, for example that Vit D is a dietary requirement in the dog. He told me not to worry about his diets being low in Vit D… I just need to let my dog sit by a sunny window. Oiy Via!

I asked what type of testing he does on the ingredients used in his food and he said none and at the time I talked to him he didn’t seem certain as to what post production testing was done at the co packers he uses.

I think the company excels at what the owner’s degree is in: marketing. When it comes to nourishing a dog: shaky ground. On the positive side one of the diets has passed a feeding trial.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Julie-
It pains me to read your post as I have gone through basically the same scenario with my two pups, 3 year-old, 80 lb lab mixes. We battled both giardia and coccidia for about a year. I think they have permanent issues from that condition. I found a ton of helpful information on dogaware dot com. Check out this site’s digestive disorder tab. My dog’s stools are still loose after exercise or when they get real excited, unfortunately. But otherwise they have been pretty consistent. I feed mine mostly Victor grain free food. It contains a clay that is supposed to be helpful for dogs with different types of colitis. I also rotate between the Perfect Form, Gastriplex and Vetri Pro BD supplements that contain probiotics and enzymes along with some diarrhea remedies such as slippery elm that seem to help a lot too. As far as toppers go, it seems like when I add either raw nuggets or dehydrated to their kibble, they do better than when I add a little canned food. Of course, murphey’s law, they are much more expensive than canned. I hope you can find a combination that works for you. If you do start switching up, do it slowly and one at a time so you know if it is helping or not. Good luck!

[Lillian N]

I’ve been really trying to do a lot of research on this raw feeding thing but as much information as I’ve been stockpiling the more uneasy I become when it comes to the supplements part of it. Most sample diets I’ve seen are for much larger dogs (40 lbs and up) and my chihuahuas are really small (5 and 7 lb respectively) I think I got most of the other parts down and I’m pretty comfortable feeding them on the raw meats/organs part (no bone, they are gulpers and don’t like to chew thoroughly) so I am feeding them a whole sardine once or twice a wk to help with calcium thought I am not sure if this is sufficient. If anyone else has a small breed can you please provide me with a sample diet of what you are feeding your dogs? I want to make a full switch to raw since they do so well on it and I would prefer not to use mixes or pre-made ones(too expensive..) I was going to simply add a multivitamin and calcium supplement as well as vitamin e to the 1 lb of ground meat and organs +veggie mix I was going to make and feed them for the whole month but I read on dogaware.com that human multivitamins aren’t suitable for small breeds. any help would be much appreciated!

[theBCnut]

Just in case, give him a good thorough bath with Dawn. He may have gotten it to something poisonous that is affecting his neuro system and while you can’t get it out of him, you may be able to get some off him. It may be that he was born with a neuro condition. I wouldn’t wait to get him checked out, because the vet can give you an idea which it may be, and tell you what supplements may help most. I would want to give milk thistle for a few days just in case he got into something. It helps the liver, just in case, but if he didn’t get into anything it won’t hurt. Also, I would want to make sure he is getting a raw egg every other day with one meal, and adding lightly cooked egg to one meal on the other days wouldn’t hurt either. You want the white cooked but the yolk raw on those. That will supply some of the nutrients he needs to clear his system, if he can. Good luck and thanks for helping this big boy. Unfortunately, this issue may be why you found him where he was. Someone may not have wanted to deal with all of this. He may also have severe hip dysplasia and just can’t use his hind end right. A joint supplement may or may not help that. Osteo Bi-Flex for humans is a really good one. And that also won’t hurt anything if he doesn’t really need it, but I haven’t met the Dane yet who didn’t.

[FrenchieBourdeaux]

No he does good with the Fromm I just add it to his food every other day. My vet and the breeder said it helps with there digestion. But I have been reading and hearing a lot about goats milk and the great benefits for dogs and I was curious if I could use that or if it would be to much calcium right now. And I here good and bad on supplements so wasn’t sure what to do on them. And kind of off the topic question but how do you load a pic on your profile…..I feel like a idiot bc I cant figure it out.

Thanks

[aimee]

When adding supplements to a dog’s diet they shouldn’t make up more then 10% of the caloric intake. I use fresh foods whole foods as supplements: veggies, fruits ( no grapes raisins, currents, onions, garlic ) DHA,EPA ( fish oils).

I’m not sure what you mean by rotating boiled chicken and rice with Fromm. Boiled chicken and rice is missing many nutrients and as such is not a suitable to use as a meal on an ongoing basis. If using boiled chicken and rice it should not make up more than 10% of the calories fed that day unless you are balancing your homemade food.