[losul]

Jerry was just reading on the global span site – So i Guess even though coco oil is very easily digested and takes very little enzymatic action to do so, it might still be advisable to incubate first;

“Incubating supplements.
Some supplements should be incubated, because they require digestion
Example: Kelp, fish oils, coconut oils
Some supplements should not be incubated, or they will be destroyed
Example: Probiotics (such as acidophilus)
For some supplements, it doesn’t seem to matter
Example: L-Glutamine
Whether or not a supplement should be incubated can be confusing. A general rule of thumb is that if it’s a food-like substance which likely contains carbohydrates, fats, or proteins, it should be incubated. Some supplements may contain fillers or extra ingredients that require incubation, so read labels closely. Good advice on this topic is available from the K9-EPIGLOBAL Yahoo Group.”

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by losul.

[theBCnut]

Don’t feel bad. We all start where we are and move on from there. I don’t think there is a single person here that didn’t feed something to their dog at some point that they wish they hadn’t.

For your dog with seizures, I would suggest Nature’s Logic, at least to start with. Many of us have come to the realization that we don’t believe that there is any such thing as a perfect dog food, so we rotate through several different ones. For a dog with seizures, you want your food to be as natural as possible.

For your BC, I would just feed it whatever you feed the first one and add a joint supplement. None of the foods that claim to be joint foods actually have a therapeutic dose in them, so don’t bother with those. Swanson’s has supplements at good prices.

[Pauline B]

I have been making my own dog food for several years. I thought they were doing well. No health issues, excellent skin/coat, nice stools, etc.

The other day while my long coat German Shepherd was laying on the floor upside down, i noticed on his elbows two HUGE bald spots. I mean i can’t believe how big they are, it covers the entire elbow!! I just gave baths today and noticed another one on one hip, this one is only about the size of a quarter.

i’m wondering if it is a zinc deficiency. (looked online and saw that might be the problem). Now i am finding this stuff about not using rice. i’m wondering if i am using too much rice.

Here is their diet: i buy organ beef mix from a dog food distributor. it is just that; beef and organ meat mix.

I make a pot of 2 cups rice, 1 cup oatmeal, 1 cup ground vegetables (any scraps that i have accummulated or off the shelf fresh vegetables) 1/3 cup vegetable oil and i cook that in a pot. i add that mix to 5 pounds of the raw meat. i divide it up and feed it in the morning (each dog – german shepherd) gets two cups of the mix with a NuVet supplement; and a tsp of garlic.

In the evening they each get a raw chicken leg (from the regular grocery store).

Like i said, i’ve been doing this mix for approximately 7 years without a problem. Any thoughts, concerns? i’m so confused that i feel like going back to kibble!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Zach –

You can certainly make your own supplements. I make my own for two reasons – it’s much cheaper than buying pre-mixed supplements and I can pick exactly which ingredients are in the supplement and in which proportions. I was running into a problem where every supplement I came across either had ingredients I didn’t want or didn’t have an ingredient I did want so I decided it would just make more sense to make my own. I purchase most of my ingredients in large quantities from Swanson Vitamins, Starwest Botanicals, Vitacost and Nature’s Farmacy. You shouldn’t have a problem finding most of the ingredients that are in Dinovite. My guess is that it’s likely the probiotics, enzymes and omega 3’s that help the most with the itching, so with whatever supplement you mix up I’d be sure to include those ingredients (at a minimum).

Here’s an article by Dr. Becker with some suggestions for itchy, smelly dogs.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Zach M]

I was just wondering, what makes products like Dinovite work? Is there a way that I could make my own version at my house? Also, what foods trigger the things that dinovite cures? What foods reduce smell and stop itching?

[Jerry S]

Our “Black Golden” Somba is a 10 year old Black Lab x Golden who has been suffering from EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency) for 8 years. She has been on PancrePlus enzyme supplements, but just seems to continually be a “bag of bones” . She eats 5 cups of Purina ONE Smartblend daily with the supplement mixed in with water, and then let it stew for about 20 minutes. She has lots of energy, and has about 3 humongous poops every day. We have been told that she needs a low fat, highly digestible food in order to put some meat on her bones instead of just passing it thru for me to pick up. Am looking for a better food and/or supplement to improve her condition. Any suggestions?
DJ Sads

[DogFoodie]

Here’s link to their website: http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs/All-Natural-Dog-Supplements There’s a lot of really useful information on their website.

There are quite a few regular posters here who’ve used BOG with great success for years. You might find this thread useful: /forums/topic/springtime-supplements/

[crazy4cats]

Hi Zolicylus-

Unfortunately, I’ve had the same issues. My pups went through four or five treatments for giardia and then coccidia. First of all, are you sure they are clear of the giardia? Sometimes it is very tough to rid of. Next, you will have to be patient because the parasites and remedies can be tough on their intestines. It has taken almost 9 months to get consistent stools. I have used several supplements in addition to probiotics and enzymes. On dogaware.com, there are several ideas to help with these issues. I often used remedies that were suggested for leaky gut or IBS. When first starting a supplement, such as a probiotic, make sure to start slow. Only give half or a quarter of the recommended amount and build up to make sure it doesn’t cause upset. I think slippery elm and L-Glutamine are beneficial. I’ve used Gastriplex, Vetri-Pro BD, HK’s Perfect Form, Friutables Digestive supplement, Seacure and Phytomucil. Most of them contain a probiotic or enzyme with some diarrhea meds also. I am definitely not in the veterinarian field, so these are just suggestions from a fellow frustrated dog owner. Please check with your vet if you have any concerns. My former vet, who moved, actually recommended the Phytomucil, probiotics and enzymes. Good luck. I know it’s frustrating. And like Case, I’m curious about what you are currently feeding and using.

[Case]

What are you feeding? What brand are your supplements?

I’ve had similar issues and just started probiotucs/enzymes 3 days ago.

[T]

Hi Sue,

Pred can cause a quick turnaround for SOME dogs, but I’ve seen more than one who did not have a miracle cure from it. Without a histological diagnosis (biopsy) it’s anyone’s guess what’s going on at a cellular level. That doesn’t stop you from providing some well-considered therapy, though. Have you considered seeing a vet who uses traditional Chinese medicine techniques? I’ve had some decent luck with chronic diarrhea/vomiting/mysterious GI badness using diet, nutritional supplements and herbs +/- acupuncture. And all that stuff can be used in conjunction with pred or whatever conventional meds you are trying.

Tabitha
http://naturalalternativesvet.com

[Bobby dog]

I thought I read some comments about Merrick GF kibbles as well, but it appears my mind is playing tricks on me. All the recent comments that C4c and I were writing about was from the WEF GF thread; possible quality control issues with this kibble line. Also seems they have had quality control issues in the past.

/dog-food-reviews/whole-earth-farms-grain-free/
http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm217086.htm

Maybe try a grooming glove for Alec. I know what you mean; sometimes those ornery kitties won’t sit still for a brushing or they start attacking you or the brush. I use a glove for my female kitty. She is fine being petted, for some reason does not like to be brushed too much. I actually use an old pair of riding gloves that have the rubber pebble grip coating on the palms. Wal-Mart carries Pet Head Massaging Bath Mitt for $5.44. They also had some grooming gloves on sale for $1.97 last month, don’t know if they still do or if that was just at my Wal-Mart.

Maybe Alec does not like the taste of supplements mixed in his food. Sometimes cats will eat supplements, like coco oil or honey, better without mixing them in their food. Archie, who eats almost anything, will not eat his food if I mix in anything. Supplements have to be hidden in little globs throughout his food, or fed on separately. Coco oil dosage for cats is ¼ teaspoon 2x daily to ½ teaspoon 1x daily per 10 lbs.

http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/02/coconut-oil-is-good-for-your-dogs.html

[justin k]

Hi HDM,

I reviewed your list posted at the beginning of the thread was curious as to why the Acana or Orijen brands were not listed? I’m particularly interested Orijen LBP for a Rottie pup that we’ll be picking up at the end of this month. The analysis specifies a calcium min/max of 1.2/1.5% which seems to fall within the recommended intake. I’m looking to feed a high protein, low calcium dry kibble without supplementation throughout the rapid growth stage (as recommended in Dr. Lauten’s paper).

Any thoughts/recommendations?

Forgive me if it was already answered, as this thread has grown quite large. I admit that I did not read the entire thread front to back.

Thanks!

[Bobby dog]

The threads we’re writing about are in the regular forum, Merrick and Whole Earth Farm threads, take a peak.

I hope it’s only a matter of him passing a hairball and you don’t have to visit the Vet. Glad you’ll be home with him tommorrow. 🙂

Be careful not to overfeed coco oil, it can cause digestive upsets/issues. Giving supplements may or may not be good for him if his tummy is upset.

How about the suspected bladder infection issue, did you ever get that urine sample? Licking those areas could be a sign of infection.

Did your Vet suggest adding extra fiber to help pass whatever showed up on the X-Ray?

Also, brush him daily. That will make a huge difference with hairballs.

[ladyquixote]

Hi all, first want to thank ya’ll for all the great info you supply here. Have been gathering nutrition info for about a year now and have some major budgeting concerns regarding planning cooked meals for my two dogs. Background: Eldest dog, Gracie is 12 y.o./55# (she is much bigger than standard Aussie) and has major yeast and anxiety problems. Found an alt vet last March who prescribed a variety of chinese herb powders which have significantly helped both problems but still a work in progress. Second dog, Tonto is about 3-1/2 (turned up at my front door emaciated last year and ended up part of our family). He weighs about 60 and is experiencing airborne allergies, due for vet check tomorrow for further input. Both are Aussie mixes.

Foodwise, they were on a mix of the 5-star dry no-grain dog foods since beginning of last year, then began adding the usual recommended toppers plus supplements and then transitioned to all-cooked meals over the last three months. It’s quickly begun taking a lot of my time to prepare meals, so this evening I sat down to figure out my monthly cost. Until now I would go out and buy enough food for a week so the cost bite wasn’t so noticeable.

I knew it was getting too costly but the final tally ended up being $15/day for two dogs! Way, way too much. In addition to the food, there are the supplemental herbs and now monthly visits to the alt vet to check progress which should end once both dogs level off with their itchies.

I’ve removed cottage cheese, carrots and rice which make great fillers because both dogs’ itchies worsened. So more meat takes the place.

My question to you is this, if I switch back to at least level 4-star dry dog food and toppers what would you suggest would be the right ratio between the both?

Gracie’s daily calorie target: 1037, Tonto’s daily calorie target: 1280
Here is a sample 1-day meal divided into two meals for Gracie:
— Chicken Liver pate, (chicken liver smothered then pureed): 2 TBSP 47 Cal
— Chicken Hearts, (lightly smothered then chopped fine): 1-1/2C 402 Cal
— Turkey, Ground; 93% Lean: 1-1/4C 425 Cal
— Mixed Veggies, 1 Cup Cooked then pureed: 40 Cal
— Pumpkin, Canned; 2 TBSP: 13 Cal
— Berries, 1/2 C: 36 Cal
— Alternate Every Day: Either 1-Egg or 1/2 tin Sardines in Water: 65-72 Cal
— Supplements include, Probiotics, 1/2 tsp finely ground eggshells, 1-multi, fish oil or coconut oil.

I’d be interested in your input as well as hearing what your average cost per day is for two medium sized dogs! Thanks so much.

[Mom2Cavs]

My dogs have no staining now. I have 3 Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and the girls had been pretty good for awhile, but not perfect. Rupert came to me with some large eye stains and paw staining. I have recently been feeding Wellness Small Breed kibbles (a variety of Sm. Brd. Senior, Sm. Brd. Simple Salmon and Sm. Brd. Whitefish). I got Rupert going on 3 months ago and started this kibble 2 months ago. I also top with Wellness canned and a very few others, Simply Nourish and Weruva but mostly Wellness. I also am using Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus and a supplement called Firm Up, which is dried pumpkin and apple pectin. The only treats they get are Wellness Yogurt biscuits at night before bedtime. I use their kibble the rest of the time. At the Hospital during Therapy Dog visits Laverne and Hazel get banana chips and Zuke’s minis (which I plan on replacing after the bag is empty). ALL staining is gone from everyone. It use to be when I groomed/brushed them and wiped their eyes Hazel would be great, Laverne would have one eye that still came away with a little brownish stain and Rupert would be getting a little better but not totally clear. Now, after 2 months of nothing but feeding this way, all staining is gone from all dogs. Even Rupert has none on his paws or otherwise. I’m thrilled! I’ve always loved Wellness products but the kibble size was too big for my Cavs. When they came out with these new formulas for Small Breeds I immediately bought them and I’m so happy…..now I just hope they continue to come out with more Small Breed flavors.

One note I would like to make, though, is that I think that getting the dogs’ guts back in peak shape is what helped the staining the most and I feel that the Digest All Plus and Firm Up were instrumental in doing that. Laverne had prior anal gland problems that are not happening now either, and Rupert had a ruptured anal gland right after coming to us which has healed great and I’ve seen no signs of returning (I keep praying about it, lol!).

[Dori]

Once again, I wanted to thank everyone that has kept us in their thoughts and prayers.

We took Hannah to her vet this a.m. where she was supposed to have a “traumatic catherization” of the nodule in her bladder. Before doing so, routinely before anesthetizing, they do a chest x-ray to check the lungs. They found a mass on the lobe of one of her lungs and her vet did not feel comfortable anesthetizing her. She is consulting with her other vet at Georgia Veterinary Specialists, plus the radiologist there and also an oncologist to come up with a plan. They have all said that surgery is not an option. They could possibly, not sure, do an aspiration during an ultra sound by the radiologist of the mass in her lung lobe to find out what it is. Chemo and radiation, of course, are not options for her either due to her age and her liver issues and, of course, there is the issue with her bladder. Neither my husband nor I would put her through any of that anyway. There may or may not be medications to try to slow the progression of either of these issues if they knew what they are. But, they can’t know what the bladder issue is without the catherization which they cannot do without anesthesia and, of course, they cannot do that because of the mass in the lung lobe. It appears through the x-ray that part of the mass in lung lobe is calcified so it may have been there for a long time but they don’t know. I’m hoping that’s a good sign because she doesn’t have any symptoms of lung cancer. As I said, things have gone from bad to dramatically worse. We just want her to be well and do the very best we can for her as she has done for us. In the mean time I will give her whatever supplements, and healthy foods I have always done. I’m reading a lot of books on canine cancer and doing the best I can. I will start cancer supplements one at a time for three days before introducing any others. Meantime I will continue her liver health regime. Of course, for me, I think there’s a lot of wine in my future. I will continue to pretend I’m happy and peppy in from of Hannah, Lola and Katie pretending that life, as we know it, is perfectly normal. Again, thank you all of DFA for your love, guidance and support. Love, Dori

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Dori.

[theBCnut]

There is no commercially available food that has a therapeutic dose of joint supplements in a serving size, so you would do best to find a food that otherwise your dog does great on and then add in a joint supplement.

[Fabienne L]

Freeze-dried and Dehydrated pet food are NOT the same as raw non-hpp pet food. You may consider raw hpp, freeze-dried and dehydrated pet food as processed pet food. Yes, it is better than dry pet food, but it is still processed. Supplements should be added to this food! Recommended supplements include: vitamins, minerals, probiotics, milk thistle to name a few. Non HPP raw pet food is truly species appropriate pet food. Small Batch and Halshan are true species appropriate pet food. When comparing pet food you can see the differences in the ingredients. HPP raw and freeze-dried, such as Stella and Chewys and other pet food contain many added supplements in them. The list of ingredients is long! When you look at Small Batch the ingredients are simply simple, no added supplements. Pets gets the nutrition they need from the meat, organ meat and fruit and vegetable. I always suggest that pet owners (guardians) add probiotics and milk thistle to their non hpp raw pet food.

[Bobby dog]

Hey Akari:
Maybe consider giving Bentley some coco oil too. It has antiseptic properties that may help him and also will help moisturize him from the inside out. He would only need about a teaspoon/day.

Now that Bobby is all healed up I only supplement coco oil 2x/wk. I will up it if he needs it, but so far that seems to be enough. He also gets fish oil 2x/wk and Vit E 1x/wk (the water soluable variety) too. It was the added fish oil and coco oil that helped him though because I just started the Vit E recently. If you would like some info on it, let me know, you know I love to post links! lol

[spaniel39]

Mimi, thanks
My Sophie is so sweet too; I knew the importance of socialization given the protectiveness
factor as an adult and I think I went too far.
If she sees anyone walking towards her or across the street, she will sit and “smile”
and wait to greet them. Impossible to take her/walk her anywhere lol
but I don’t mind, She is just starting to form her “cords”
I didn’t read your post carefully. Sorry, didn’t realize you had been on raw.
I found it much too expensive and kibble has come a long way (Acana, Orijen, etc)
and you can always supplement it with a tablespoon of a good canned lamb/duck/etc.
or in Sophie’s case last night, a big extra lean, Hamburger!
I forgot to mention Evangers!
They’ve done research for decades on large breeds
They have a meat lovers with Rabbit, not real expensive, my dogs loved!

[Bobby dog]

Alright here’s my info: 🙂
~Pure Love Chlorhexidine 4% Shampoo for Dogs and Cats $8.99 – Same % of the same active ingredient in Nolvasan shampoo.

Info on Nolvasan shampoo:
http://www.vetstreet.com/nolvasan-shampoo

Shampoo link on Petflow:
http://www.petflow.com/product/pure-love/chlorhexidine-4-shampoo-for-dogs-and-cats

~Pure Love Ketoconazole 1%, Chlorhexidine Gluconate 2% Shampoo for Dogs and Cats $9.99 – Active Ingredients in Malaseb shampoo are 2% Chlorhexidine Gluconate and 2% Miconazole Nitrate. Ketoconazole looks similar to Miconazole.

Info on Malaseb shampoo:
http://www.drugs.com/vet/malaseb-shampoo.html

Info on ketoconazole:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/ketoconazole-topical-route/description/drg-20067739

Shampoo link on Petflow:
http://www.petflow.com/product/pure-love/ketoconazole1-chlorhexidine2-shampoo-for-dogs-and-cats

I probably would buy the Pure Love Ketoconazole 1%, Chlorhexidine Gluconate 2% Shampoo for Dogs and Cats. These are good prices for the amount of product. Maybe someone else will have a suggestion for you as to which shampoo sold on Petflow they would recommend.

You can also buy antiseptic/antibacterial cleansers in the first aid aisle of most stores that have the same % of the active ingredient in Nolvasan shampoo. Hibiclens is a name brand example, but many drug stores have their own versions of it. I have a bottle of Hibiclens in the barn; I must not have been able to find Nolvasan the last time I needed it.

Here’s a link to Hibiclens:
http://www.hibiclens.com/retail
http://www.hibiclens.com/retail/where-to-buy-hibiclens

[crazy4cats]

I hope not either. Mine were treated four times maybe five with flagyl and panacur for giardia. The with Albon for coccidia. They did, however have parasites. So, boy, do I know about loose stools and diarrhea. It was the main topic of conversation here for about a year! We have all kinds of “grading” systems for poop! I’m not sure if the bugs or the meds did more damage to their digestive systems. Have you checked out dogaware.com? There are several suggestions and information for digestive issues on that site. Another supplement you could use with the vetri pro is Phytomucil. It is made by Animal Essentials. I believe it has slippery elm, plantain, DGL and marshmallow root. It helps to soothe the tract. I guess the main thing, though is to figure out what is causing the issue. Does it occur more when she is excited or after exercise? My dogs do best when I’m feeding Victor with raw frozen nuggets and a supplement. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Yes, it seems to be the case with all the supplements I’ve used. Is your dog having issues? If yes, I would go ahead and start with the double dosing. If not, just go with the maintenance dosage. Actually, the first couple of days you could build up to the initial dosing if concerned about any side effects. My pups do well on it.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Raam-
I too, have had some battles with Giardia. During that time I never knew if they were suffering from a food intolerance or if the Giardia was back. It was very stressful. Luckily, they have been negative for about 9 months. They were also treated several times with panacur and antibiotics. It has taken a long time to get their tummies back to normal. They have always been interested in eating though, thank goodness! I am feeding them Victor grain free with a variety of toppers with good luck. However, I do use various supplements which have also helped soothe their tummies. Much information can be found on dogaware.com with digestive issues. It is a great site. Many of the supplements that I’ve used are made by Vetri Science, Thorne, Animal Essentials and Honest Kitchen. As Sue said, it might be best to start with something bland and work your way back to a better kibble. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Case-
I have used and recently ordered the same digestive enzymes that you just ordered made by Vetri-Science. They are a combo product. They contain enzymes, probiotics, prebiotics and other supplements as well. The other supplements such as, NAG and L-Glutamine are known to be helpful with loose stools. My dogs do well with this supplement as they have bouts of leaky gut or some type of IBS. Not sure if this is what you were looking for or not. I also occasionally use Gastriplex or THK Perfect Form. Good luck.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Case-
I’ve never used this product, but I have thought about it. lol! Just wanted to let you know that Nature’s Logic has something similar that I also have thought about. They both look like a great supplement.

[Shawna]

I think maybe they just don’t know what to say to help but they want to try to make you feel better!! As I noted in my first post Dr. Dressler says tcbc is very treatable.

You also can’t beat yourself up over choices you’ve made up to this point or from this point forward. Everything we do, we do with our pups best interest in mind.. If you weren’t treating and she got heartworm you would have been kicking yourself for not giving her the preventatives. We all do the best we can with the information we have at the time. You simply can’t do better than that!!!

I definitely would hold off starting too many supplements (unless made from food) to make sure one doesn’t counter or have a negative reaction with another etc. My dad is a Master Herbalist and I know he would give me some guidance if needed — if some of the supps are herbal that is. The food ones (if therapeutic) I would introduce slowly so as not to initiate to fast of a healing. I also think it is VERY important for you to read Dr. Goldsteins chapter on the healing crisis in his book. Do you have a library close?

You can reach me any time tomorrow from 10:00 am to 8:00 pm Central time. Tomorrow is house cleaning / laundry day. We may go out for lunch or dinner but otherwise I’ll just be cleaning. Try to get some restful sleep tonight.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Shawna.

[crazy4cats]

Yes, Dori, please don’t give up. I sure wish I knew about this site 3 years ago when my vet told us that our previous dog “most likely” had cancer. He ran a few blood tests and did an X-ray. Said it would cost too much to do more tests and he was almost 12 so he didn’t think it would make sense. We just gave him steroids and metronidazole for about 6 months before he died. I just can’t help but wonder if I changed his diet or tried some supplements, we could have had him around longer. I just believed the vet. So anyway, do everything you can to help your little girl, so you won’t have any regrets. I’m sure I really didn’t need to tell you that though. Keep smiling because she knows when you’re sad. Best wishes!

[Dori]

Shawna: I’ve been giving them whole house filtered water for years. Hadn’t been giving them HW medication until losul had HW diagnosis and I started in again. Stupid Stupid Me!!!!
I have read about the issues with HW medication and bladder cancer just yesterday and a few of the sites specifically name Sentinel and that is the brand I’ve used for years. Obviously I’m never ever using HW medication again. Dogs are all on 3 year rabies vaccination. Hannah at almost 15 years old and bladder cancer will never get it again. I have read everything I can and everyone’s posts here and well wishes and kind words and, of course, they all make me cry knowing everyone is so caring and loving. Just breaks my heart. I’m just a weepy mess right now. My husband and close friends keep telling me what a wonderful life Hannah and I have given each other for 15 years and, selfishly, I just don’t want to hear that kind of talk. That means everyone of them is resigning them to the fact that it’s the end for Hannah and I just can’t deal. She’s the only thing that got me out of bed after my son, Matthew, passed and she’s my last tangible connection to him. It’s just too damn hard. I’ve ordered tons of supplements today and read every site that everyone has guided me to, thank you, thank you, thank you everyone. I’m now concerned of having ordered too much and making matters worse my overdosing her on supplements.

Shawna, I know how crazed and consumed your life is with your family both human and furry, so please let me know when might be a good day and time might work out for you for me to call you. I’ve been feeding all the girls raw for over a year and I think that I want to continue feeding commercial raw as I’ve been doing. Just to let you know Hannah has never had a urinary tract infection in her life, no bloody urine and her urine tests are still clear. They only discovered this because of doing ultra sounds checking her liver because of all four liver levels being so high. They have all come down significantly. Still high of normal but not sky high like before. Okay. I need to breathe right now and attempt to pull my self together because all three dogs are too attuned to my stress. Love to all and from the bottom of my heart I thank you all.

[Shasta220]

What other brands have you tried? Have you tried supplementing with fiber (canned pumpkin or cooked sweet potato), digestive supplements (like probiotics), or extra oils (like fish or olive)? The reason why SD makes him poop so much is because of all the worthless fillers in there.

I went from a 1 star to a 4star food with my dog way back years ago. He went from making 7-10 BIG piles daily to only 3-5…

[Shawna]

Oh Dori!!!!!!!! I’m so very sorry.

I did a quick google search and found that apoptosis and antiangiogenosis are both effective treatments of Transitional Cell Bladder Carcinoma (which I’m going to abbreviate to tcbc for the rest of the post). Then I googled “Dr Demian Dressler tcbc”. Dr. Dressler owns the website “dog cancer blog”. There is a video of him and his partner (who is an veterinary oncologist) specifically on tcbc. They say it is very treatable!! GOOD Dr. D also specifically mentions it responds to apoptosis. GOOD The video is here http://www.dogcancer.tv/transitional-cell-carcinoma-what-you-need-to-know-about-your-dogs-cancer/

As a quick reminder — apoptosis is when the cells of the body get old, damaged or unhealthy (like cancer) and commit “suicide”. It is normal and supposed to happen but sometimes it doesn’t happen (due to certain drugs or bacteria/virus or other reasons). Angiogenosis is when new blood vessels are formed (this happens with healing but tumors also cause these blood vessels to grow to them which supplies them with the nutrition they need to grow). ANTIangiogenic products (medications and foods/supplements) cause those blood vessels to die which blocks nutrients from getting to the tumor and the tumor starves to death.

Dr. Dressler and Ettinger recommend a home cooked “cancer” diet. BUT, Dr. Martin Goldstein is well known for great success with dogs that other vets have given up on due to cancer. Dr. Goldstein recommends a species appropriate raw diet. That said, they both also utilize other treatments and supplements. If the finances allow, I think his office (Dr. Goldstein) would be a great one to get a consult with (by phone if nothing else – they are in New York (or is it New Jersey?)). I personally would stick with raw but you have to do what you think is best for Hannah.. Both raw and cooked are appropriate for different reasons in my opinion.

Okay, so we know that tcbc responds to apoptotic and antiangiogenic products. With that in mind I would DEFINITELY start turmeric or even curcumin (which is the anti-cancer active ingredient in turmeric). Turmeric also has additional benefits so maybe both versus one or the other?? If buying turmeric it MUST be organic as otherwise it could be irradiated. I would also start the enzyme bromelain away from meals as it induces both apoptosis and antiangiogenosis. As does fresh garlic (pending there is no blood loss, surgery, anemia).

Other antiangiogenic foods are blueberries, mushrooms, strawberries etc. More antiagiogenic foods here http://blog.ted.com/2010/02/10/dr_william_lis/ Dr. Li states that antiangiogenic foods work synergistically so the more you can add to the diet the better off. Not all in one meal or one day of course.

Some other supplements known, in the holistic world at least, to help with cancer are apricot seeds (due to their high amounts of vitamin b17), essiac tea (which includes a bunch of anti-cancer herbs), flor essence (a specific brand of essiac like tea), coconut oil (not sure it actually helps the cancer? but it will help keep the calories up in a pancreas friendly way and has so many other benefits), probiotics (help the immune system and have been shown to help “bladder cancer” I believe through the fatty acids (like butyric and lactic acids) they produce), enzymes given with the food will help for the most complete digestion and nutrient absorption plus allow (many think) the metabolic enzymes to be spared from having to help with digestion (especially in older dogs). I know there’s more I’m not thinking of. I’ll post again if/when I think of them.

Call or email me ANY TIME if you want.

[Shawna]

Oh Dori!!!!!!!! I’m so very sorry.

I did a quick google search and found that apoptosis and antiangiogenosis are both effective treatments of Transitional Cell Bladder Carcinoma (which I’m going to abbreviate to tcbc for the rest of the post). Then I googled “Dr Demian Dressler tcbc”. Dr. Dressler owns the website “dog cancer blog”. There is a video of him and his partner (who is an veterinary oncologist) specifically on tcbc. They say it is very treatable!! GOOD Dr. D also specifically mentions it responds to apoptosis. GOOD The video is here http://www.dogcancer.tv/transitional-cell-carcinoma-what-you-need-to-know-about-your-dogs-cancer/

As a quick reminder — apoptosis is when the cells of the body get old, damaged or unhealthy (like cancer) and commit “suicide”. It is normal and supposed to happen but sometimes it doesn’t happen (due to certain drugs or bacteria/virus or other reasons). Angiogenosis is when new blood vessels are formed (this happens with healing but tumors also cause these blood vessels to grow to them which supplies them with the nutrition they need to grow). ANTIangiogenic products (medications and foods/supplements) cause those blood vessels to die which blocks nutrients from getting to the tumor and the tumor starves to death.

Dr. Dressler and Ettinger recommend a home cooked “cancer” diet. BUT, Dr. Martin Goldstein is well known for great success with dogs that other vets have given up on due to cancer. Dr. Goldstein recommends a species appropriate raw diet. That said, they both also utilize other treatments and supplements. If the finances allow, I think his office (Dr. Goldstein) would be a great one to get a consult with (by phone if nothing else – they are in New York (or is it New Jersey?)). I personally would stick with raw but you have to do what you think is best for Hannah.. Both raw and cooked are appropriate for different reasons in my opinion.

Okay, so we know that tcbc responds to apoptotic and antiangiogenic products. With that in mind I would DEFINITELY start turmeric or even curcumin (which is the anti-cancer active ingredient in turmeric). Turmeric also has additional benefits so maybe both versus one or the other?? If buying turmeric it MUST be organic as otherwise it could be irradiated. I would also start the enzyme bromelain away from meals as it induces both apoptosis and antiangiogenosis. As does fresh garlic (pending there is no blood loss, surgery, anemia). Garlic could also kill bacteria and viri if an happen to be blocking apoptosis. Also help with bladder infections if that is a concern? Dr. Ettiger, in the above video, says that can be a concern.

Other antiangiogenic foods are blueberries, mushrooms, strawberries etc. More antiagiogenic foods here http://blog.ted.com/2010/02/10/dr_william_lis/ Dr. Li states that antiangiogenic foods work synergistically so the more you can add to the diet the better off. Not all in one meal or one day of course.

Some other supplements known, in the holistic world at least, to help with cancer are apricot seeds (due to their high amounts of vitamin b17), essiac tea (which includes a bunch of anti-cancer herbs), flor essence (a specific brand of essiac like tea), coconut oil (not sure it actually helps the cancer? but it will help keep the calories up in a pancreas friendly way and has so many other benefits), probiotics (help the immune system and have been shown to help “bladder cancer” I believe through the fatty acids (like butyric and lactic acids) they produce), enzymes given with the food will help for the most complete digestion and nutrient absorption plus allow (many think) the metabolic enzymes to be spared from having to help with digestion (especially in older dogs). I know there’s more I’m not thinking of. I’ll post again if/when I think of them.

Call or email me ANY TIME if you want.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Shawna.

[losul]

Dori, while I think that Mercola’s product is likely a great supplement product for overall health, and Dr. Becker does bring up some good points about whole vs isolates, If it were me, in Hannah’s case targeting cancer, I would be much more inclined to try the targeted and concentrated isolate extracts in K-9 immunity. Both companies use lab grown shrooms under controlled conditions- no China grown shrooms, most of these mushrooms are native to the Far East. You might want to consider Mercola’s supplemental product for your other dogs.

Also I think I would use just the straight K-9 immunity and add transfer factor, instead of K-9 immunity plus, which might contain some added questionable ingredients.

Also, I don’t know much about these, but apocaps could be something to look into…..

http://www.dogcancer.net/apocaps-info.php

Turbos doing well. I’ll write more on that later. I don’t know what, if anything, should be changed in Hannah’s diet. Does your vet(s) know what you have been feeding?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by losul.

[Dori]

Cyndi: Thank you for sending all good thoughts our way. I truly appreciate it as I appreciate your kindness. No, I have not heard from Shawna yet but I am hoping to.

Losul: Thank you for your kind words and for reaching out to me. I have just ordered the K-9 supplements and am about to go to the Mercola site and check out the mushroom supplement that Betsy directed me. (How is your dog doing with HW treatment?)

Betsy: Hi Betsy, thanks so much for directing me to the mushroom supplement at Mercola (Dr. Becker). I’m going to check that out right now.

Denise A. Thank you for the information on K-9 supplements. I’ve ordered them a few moments ago. Hannah was weighing 7.5 lbs. Yesterdays weight at vet shows her at 6.8 lbs. They tried two different scales to confirm the loss of weight. How much turmeric curcurmin were you giving or that you think I should be giving. In her food??? Shark Cartilage? Where would I find that and how much to give? Anything else? Did you change diet yes or no? What were you feeding her if you changed her diet? Sorry for all the questions but I’m in panic mode at the moment. Been on the computer all last evening and night so I’m a little wired.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Dori.

[Denise A]

The best price I found for K 9 immunity and transfer factor (they really go together – My Dad had cancer treatments with transfer factor too) was here: http://search.911healthshop.com/?p=Q&ts=custom&query=k9+immunity&view=list

How many pounds is your dog?

I also used tumeric cucurmin and shark cartilage.

Duchess was 14 when she was diagnosed and lived several months after that. The supplements really helped her.

[DogFoodie]

Mercola has a while food, organic mushroom supplement: http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/mushroom-complex-for-pets/

[losul]

Dori, It pains me to hear this, yet I can’t imagine the immense pain you are going through, so so sorry. You have a lot of people in your corner wishing you and yours the best, I can be counted amongst those. As others have said, Hannah could not be in better hands, Dori.

I’m usually kind of reserved/cautious about the claims of some supplements, but the power of medicinal mushrooms is one I have previously researched and have some faith in. A few of them of them, I sometimes use in cooking. I decided that if my circumstances ever warranted, I would definitely consider giving them a shot therapeutically for my dog. K-9 immunity and transfer factors that Denise A mentioned, is one that I had looked into, and liked.

Dog Cancer Home

[Bobby dog]

Hi again Leslie R:
It was late last night when I posted my reply, “Some of these canned foods may not be supplemented with vitamins, and they are only for supplemental feeding.” I meant to write some of these canned foods may not be supplemented with vitamins and are labeled for intermittent feeding.

I have fed prescription diets to several pets in the past. I have no problem with some prescription diets; those diets were life savers and improved their health. My Vet worked with me and our goal was to rehab them so they could resume eating what they normally eat. I believe it is important to think outside of the box when feeding ill pets. If he is doing well on a prescription diet, you may want to consider continuing to feed him one.

Here’s are some links to companies that can help formulate homemade or prescription diets for your pet. I have not personally used their services or know anyone who has, but maybe you can find some other options that can help your pup:

You’ve Got Options

http://petdiets.com/?

https://secure.balanceit.com/

http://justfoodfordogs.com/

http://susanwynn.com/Home_Page.php

http://www.raynenutrition.com/default.asp

http://www.doctorsfinest.com/

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/why-your-dog-doesnt-need-that-expensive-prescription-diet/?inf_contact_key=6679a6279cfecd30f1b6a7ddebba86b877e6fb7d4d6a17482cbaf5be1b62f1e6

[Dori]

Denise, thank you for your help. Any info as to supplements, dosages and where to buy would be a Godsend. Also any other supplements you were feeding her. Did you switch her food? If so to what foods and how did Duchess fare on all? Thank you so much.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Leslie R:
Canned food is high in moisture, maybe stews have a little more moisture than pate’? IDK Check out these brands: Wellness Core, Blue Buffalo Wilderness, By Nature 95%, Hound & Gatos, and EVO & EVO 95%. Some of these canned foods may not be supplemented with vitamins, they are only for supplemental feeding. I am not sure if they are what you are looking for, but they could be a place to start. Some canned foods that are low in carbs may be high in fat. You didn’t write what kind of health he is in, other than his diagnosis, so these may or may not be good for him depending on his current health condition.

Also, I read the other suggestions you received about making homemade food for him. You could always look into feeding both homemade and canned as well.

Here’s a DFA link about calculating carbs in dog food that may be helpful:
/choosing-dog-food/dog-food-carbohydrate-content/
I love JRT’s, good luck finding what he needs!

[Denise A]

I’m so sorry for your news. When my dog, Duchess, was diagnosed with cancer of the spleen I immediately put her on more supplements. I found out that shark cartilage and tumeric cucumin helps with tumors. I also got her K-9 Immunity Capsules and Transfer Factor wafers from Aloha Medicinals. I bought directly from them for several months and then found a cheaper place. If you want to know where, please let me know.

[pugmomsandy]

That site has a “yeast starvation diet” recipe too. And the recipes call for only 2 supplements!

[Akari_32]

I don’t know if I could do canned or not. “Good” canned food isn’t a popular thing around here. It’s pretty much Wellness or Natures Variety, or Mr. Pretend Good Blue Buffalo, as far as that goes. Everything else is like Pro Plan and Science Diet. Though Walmart does have Pure Balance…. And I can look online, and see of I can find anything.

And about the premixes, I think doing no carbs (or as little as possible) is best. This dog smells like a rag used to clean up milk that was left in the sun for a week @.@ So if I did canned, it’s have to be like the 95% ones.

I’ve been looking around at home made and raw sites. Kind of hard on my phone, but I’m getting ideas 🙂 I’ll look into that site, as well.

Does anyone have any links to good prices supplements?

[Dori]

Hi Bobby Dog. Yep! Hannah, my 15 year old Maltese (she’ll be 15 on 9/9/2014) has been diagnosed this week with Transitional Cell Carinoma in her Bladder. It was found incidentally because her liver levels were high and multiple blood tests and ultra sounds. Two ultra sounds back it was discovered and last ultra sound it’s still there, not any smaller but not any bigger. Next Wednesday she will have what they call a “Traumatic Catheterization of the bladder” do get a firm diagnosis. So far all vets that have seen ultra sound results are pretty certain that it’s cancer. Prognosis is 10 months at the out most. I’m beyond consolable. If possible, my husband is worse. I’m going to try to figure out about supplements and whether I should be cooking her meals or keep her on raw or what I need to be doing. Thank you Bobby Dog for asking.

[pugmomsandy]

Like kibble, canned foods can be served as a meal. Canned food is less processed than kibble and the fact that it has alot of moisture is better than kibble. If you want to feed canned food the majority of the time, be sure to check that it is NOT “for supplemental or intermittent feeding only”. As far as feeding one can at a time or not, it depends on how many calories your dog needs per meal.

If the canned food says it’s for supplemental feeding only, then use it as a mixer with another “complete and balanced” food like most kibbles as it doesn’t have all the vitamins and minerals to make a complete diet.

[Akari_32]

He gets very little in the way of actual dog treats. He usually gets a bit of people food for treats. I yell at mom for giving him jelly beans quite often… Other than those, he gets veggies and meat scraps. Right now, his treats are Wellness Toy Breed cranberry something-or-anothers. They were on clearance lol Oh, and he steals the cats food if he leaves it and it’s not up high. Alec gets mostly Wellness Grain Free.

The only commercial raw diets locally available are Bill Jac (not sure how good that is) and Natures Variety, which is not cost effective at all (I’ve already looked into that.). There may be other brands that I’ve over looked, though.

What if we were to feed like, half raw, half Natures Variety Instinct kibble? That has freeze dried raw coating, and all sorts of good stuff in it. Would supplements be needed then? (Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to avoid supplements, I just know they can be costly, so if I can find a way to balance his diet as cheaply as possible, I’d like to take that route).

[Cyndi]

Akari, with the dog being so small, doing commercial raw wouldn’t cost all that much just for him. Then you wouldn’t really need to add any supplements, except maybe some fish oil, tinned sardines are great and coconut oil. Even raw eggs as a topper would be good. It would probably be pretty cheap to feed a small dog like that a raw diet. Good luck!

[Kay G]

I am currently feeding Fromm GF dry & rotate the proteins. I also had in raw toppers once or twice a day. I have 3 Springers and 1 Cavalier. My oldest Springer (7) has numerous health issues which I have been told are immune related, one being bad allergies/yeast. He has had double ACL surgery, sees a chiropractor regularly and on supplements for his joints, immune system etc. but he just doesn’t seem “right”. After doing research, Nature’s Logic was suggested to me because it does not have the starchy carbs that feeds the yeast (potatoes, peas etc.) that is in the Fromm food. My only concern is the millet in the Nature’s Logic. I bought a bag of Chicken to try, so we will see how he handles it. I am also leaning toward switching the other three dogs over to Nature’s Logic mainly because it is easier for me to feed all four dogs the same thing….. does anyone have feed back on this they could share with me?

[Akari_32]

You guys may recall, my moms dog, Bentley, is always itchy. Right now, his back half is almost completely bald, and his skin is bright red. No matter what we do, what foods he’s on, what protein and carb sources the food has or doesn’t have, fleas or no fleas (obviously we strive for no fleas, but we have some sort of freakish super fleas around here, and he’s so small he’s like a flea magnet in the grass). It just doesn’t matter. We yell at him for scratch so much that he actually goes and hides so he can scratch. Crafty little terrier… Lol

He also smells. Doesn’t matter of he just had a bath or not. He’s stinky. I think it’s a yeast thing?

I’m 99% sure most of it has to do with seasonal allergies, as he gets much better in the winter, and almost all his hair grows back by the time is warms up again for spring.

I always hear of these stories of these dogs that are doing terrible on any kibble, no matter what kind it is, and then they are put on raw and all their problems go away, or are greatly reduced to the point where they can actually be dogs again.

Does anyone have tips on how I can do an extremely cheap raw diet? And is it cheaper to go with a RMB base and not supplement calcium, or to do mostly muscle meat and supplement the calcium, etc associated with bones? Money is defiantly an issue, but we can’t have this freakish Chinese crested/poodle/terrier Frankenstein love child looking thing. There is a Save-A-Lot near the house, which I know would help with the cost, but I’m not sure the quality of their meats. We usually shop at Publix or SAMs Club for meat, depending on what we need. We also have Winn Dixie. I know they do great deals on meat, as well.

He’s about 8 pounds, very active (so fat isn’t too much of a problem), and loves him a good raw bone (I’ve given him chicken necks, pig knuckles, a few others before).

And back on the supplement thing again, is it possible to feed raw with no supplements? What supplements are some cost effective ones?

I’d love to hear of some of your recipes and weekly meal plans and such, as well 🙂

[Bobby dog]

Hi Kritterlady:
The only suggestion I have for enticing your dog to eat coco oil is trying to melt it and see if he will lick it out of his bowl.

Only one of my cats will eat coco oil in his food, but it can’t be mixed completely in (or melted) because he won’t touch it. I have to hide a small solid amount in his food. The other cats will not touch their food if something is hiding or mixed into it. Sometimes they eat it alone in solid form or melted, when all else fails I just rub it onto their fur. My dog absolutely loves it no matter what and if I don’t watch him he will lick it off the cats fur! lol

Sometimes added supplements don’t agree with our pets and he may also be telling you this by not eating it.

As for the honey I have never had a pet with seasonal allergies, but definately would try either local raw honey or local bee pollen if they did. Since honey doesn’t interest him, I would look into bee pollen. I would imagine it is easier to administer. Here’s a few links with more info on bee pollen and honey. Good luck!

/forums/topic/bee-pollen/

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/10_9/features/Bee-Honey-Products-Help-Canines_15967-1.html

http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.ca/2014/01/honey-good-for-dogs-cats-honey-is.html