[cms60]

I’m so impressed! I had searched and couldn’t figure out what to do! There are stores carrying that brand close to me and I will try it! My poor baby has multiple allergies besides the foods, but the vet said the foods are usually the easiest to start eliminating. I might have to get an extract made for pine and grass allergy, but I want to try this first. This year suddenly became a consistent problem to the point she licked a raw spon on one of her paws. (She is 8 years old and has only had seasonal problems before). I tried medications and multiple imaginative ideas to protect the spot, but finally had to resort to the silly collar that doesn’t allow her to chew her feet at least until the one paw gets well.

Thanks so much for this great site, and the advice!

[weimlove]

Nectarmom-
I’m so sorry to hear that your baby is still sick 🙁 shadow has fully recovered and his appetite is back. For now, I purchased natures variety instinct with raw boost. It’s a grain free kibble with added bits of freeze dried raw. He is still having some runny poop but it’s a lot better than the liquid poop he was having. I was also thinking about Darwin’s, but I’m going to continue researching. I wish I could feed raw but sometimes it just dosent work for our babies. I feel like a failure but his health is my top priority

HDM- I will definitely keep that in mind, but the pre-mix and that kind of meat Woukd be way out of my budget. In trying to spend no more than $100 a month on food.

Thank you all for all the help and advice you have given me.

[theBCnut]

My JRT is more prone to build up than any of my other dogs has ever been(all medium/large dogs). Raw meaty bones are keeping any issues in check enough that I scrape off a little every 6 months or so, but other than the professional teeth cleaning she got when I got her, she has not had another real teeth cleaning and hasn’t needed one. She used to have it done every year before I got her. I feed chicken necks, turkey necks, or some kind of ribs every third day. I think it is an issue of their teeth not changing in size as much as they did when they were bred down so much. Their teeth don’t line up quite the way they should. This is especially noticable in brachycephalic breeds. And it’s also a problem in miniature horses(I’m NOT brushing Smokey’s teeth, nor am I feeding him RMBs).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

Sorry to hear Shadow’s having a bout of pancreatitis. 🙁

As Nectarmom stated, pancreatitis is brought on by fat – it wouldn’t have to do with whether or not the food is raw, although raw diets do tend to be higher in fat than kibble. Some dogs can handle very high levels of fat with no issues (i.e. my dogs) and others are very sensitive to fat. Some breeds are also predisposed to pancreatitis and don’t tolerate high levels of fat in their diet. Rancid fats can also cause pancreatitis – this wouldn’t be an issue with the fat on fresh meat but kibbles can go rancid as can fish oil (if you’re supplementing with fish oil it should be refrigerated and used within a couple months of opening). As Patty stated, raw diets are only required to state a minimum level of fat – often the actual level is much higher. So be careful if you go with pre-made. The best way to determine the true fat level is to look at the calorie content (foods with over 50 calories per oz. are likely higher in fat) and/or ask the company for a batch analysis in which they provide you with an actual nutrient analysis run on a batch of food (this can give you a good idea of what the fat levels are actually in the food but can also be inaccurate given that it’s possible to have great variance between batches). Personally, I think your best bet (if you want to continue with raw) would be to use a pre-mix and add lean meat from the grocery store. Human foods are required to list the actual fat levels (not a minimum) so you know what you’re getting. I’d stick with at least 95% lean and supplement with minimal levels of omega 3’s (he’ll still need EFA’s, but don’t over supplement).

[NectarMom]

Patty is right Weimlove and we were using Darwin’s and my baby is now in intensive care and staying at the Vet for who knows how long. My bill is already $1300 but if they can make her well and then money is no object. I plan to probably put her back on Brothers Allergy since they changed the ingredients back to where they were the first go round. She did fine on it until they added that fish oil so we will give it a shot. Sometimes things do not work out and you have to do what is best for your furry babies health. As far as my research Darwin’s was lower in fat than most pre-made Raw and Darwin’s came highly recommended. Yes I am aware that licking in the air is Nausea but this was not that type of lick, she was trying to get in the others bowls to eat and licking. She will also lick in the air with acid reflux.

Thanks for the well wishes everyone. Weimlove Best of luck to you with your baby.

[Hound Dog Mom]

That sounds like a great menu for a large breed puppy! My dogs love Tripett and Grandma Lucy’s. Raw green tripe is naturally rich in probiotics and enzymes however they are destroyed in the canning process, so if you want your pup to have the benefits of probiotics and enzymes it will be necessary to supplement separately.

[shelties mom]

HDM,
Thanks for your reply. I’m curious of how most raw fed BIG dogs I’ve met have pearly white teeth and their owners never have to brush their teeth? Do you use any dental products for their teeth?

[kimc]

I need some help! I have 2 mini schnauzers, and they are such picky eaters! I know, I know…I created this mess. However, it does not help the issue. Currently they are eating “Stella and Chewys raw for dinner. They like to graze on kibble during the day, but I cannot find one they will eat. (unless it is not good for them….they started eating Bill Jax, which I wasn’t happy about, but they were eating it…then the itching started so I am back to square one) I have tried them all. I need a 5 star, no chicken, grain free “small kibble”. My dogs are 6 and 8 lbs…very small. Anyone have any suggestions? I really thought Natural Instincts would work…but the kibble is big and very hard…they can’t break it! HELP!!

[theBCnut]

Do your research on which premade raws are high fat. They only have to list a minimum and some of them have a lot more fat than that. A dog that is susceptible to pancreatitis needs controlled fat levels.

[Hound Dog Mom]

NectarMom –

I think Sandy had a good suggestion. You may want to forget the Darwin’s and possibly even the MPC and just use a pre-mix and mix in very lean meat (if you want to continue with raw). I would go with meat from the grocery store so you know exactly the level of fat you’re feeding – 95% lean ground beef, 97% lean ground turkey, chicken breast, etc. As for adding EFA’s – I’d just add a sardine or a fish oil capsule and maybe a very small amount of coconut oil a few days a week. I’m so sorry to hear that your dogs are having these issues. Some dogs just can’t tolerate high levels of fat and some breeds are pre-disposed pancreatitis. All of my dogs tolerate very high levels of fat (I sometimes feed up to 40%) – thank god, they eat so much the higher fat levels help me keep their food more calorie-dense.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi loveall –

You’re on the right track by feeding a 5 star grain-free food. My only suggestion would be to rotate foods – don’t stick with just one. There is no “best food” – this is why it is important to rotatate, it compensates for the shortcomings of each food. Pick at least two or three different brands (or more) with different protein sources and switch every so often. Rotating foods with strengthen your dog’s digestive system, provide variety and provide you with alternative choices in the event of a recall or formula change. I’d also recommend topping the dry food with a high quality canned food, raw food or healthy leftovers (lean meat, eggs, etc.). Good luck!

[weimlove]

Oh my goodness I am so sorry to hear that! It is so frustrating when you spend so much time researching a raw diet and preparing their meals, for it not to work out. Shadow stayed at the holistic vet lastnight. I picked him up this morning and when we got home he had liquid diareahha and still wouldn’t eat. All they did at the holistic vet was give him fluids. Since he was still worse I took him to a normal vet that’s close to my house. She says he may have a touch of pancreatitis but that she thinks we caught it in time. She gave him some antibiotics and an injection to calm his tummy. I went to the store and bought some wellness chicken and rice canned food. Thankfully he ate almost a whole can! The vet I went to was very kind and understanding. I think for now I’m going to use canned food until his appetite comes back all the way. When it does, I’m thinking about just going to a pre made raw such as primal. I want to feed shadow the best, but I don’t want to risk his health.

[theBCnut]

Licking air is a sign of nausea, so she really does need to wait longer to eat. I know how hard that is, but you are going to have to be strong for her if she is silly enough to want to eat inspite of her tummy warnings.

[NectarMom]

Thank you Weimlove. Pancreatitis is brought on by high fatty diet. We maybe switching just our shihtzu back to kibble due to she was only given 1 teaspoon of raw when we got back home and I ended up rushing her back up there, she blew out basically nothing but watery diahrrea and was trying to throw up the teaspoon that I fed her so it is not looking good for Raw for her in which I really hate it. Shes going back in tomorrow for more test and I guess they enjoy trying to see how many times they can stick her to get blood 🙁 Poor baby, Vet said once again no food for 24hrs….shes going to starve to death and I feel so bad while everyone else is eating and shes sitting there licking in the air……….. 🙁

Weimlove, how is your baby today?

[Honeybeesmom1]

Hi HDM, I realized after reading your response to me…I figured I probally jumped the gun.
I tend to do that when it comes to the doggies. lol. But then I read texsmom & smitty’s comments – and now I just don’t know what to do.
I always read reviews on everything before I buy for my pets – but on see spot live longer…I couldn’t find any. I saw on Dogaware was just what it was about…not any reviews.
I’m making another purchase of THK Preference – and wanted to also buy another food besides kibble
as they still have that. What is another food that you would recommend? I did see one called U-Stew.
Can you tall me anything about that one? And I believe I’ve read you like Dr. Harveys? I still have plenty of raw.

[spoonyspork]

Oh, my female (the one with the problems with any other food than she currently gets) is much younger than my old boy I’m talking about in this thread. She has her food issues too (mostly that even though we only give her about half of what the bag says to give, she is still FAT) but it’s the old boy I’m trying to get to eat. He won’t touch the kibble now, even mixed with lots of wet food.

I went shopping last night armed with the 4-star-or-better list, and after starring in horror at prices (not to mention noting he’d have to eat at least three cans a day and he has trouble finishing *one* can), I ended up going with something that only has 3.5 stars but I thought he’d eat: Sojos ‘raw’ food. I realize it’s not the *best* (and I’d love to be able to make my own but that’s not really an option), but figure it’s better than him just not eating. I also know it wasn’t good to just go cold-turkey like that but since he won’t touch his kibble and has only been eating the wet food from the vet the last week, it was again better than nothing.

Anyway, as soon as I unsealed the bag he perked up and walked over to me, doing his ‘I’m not actually begging but OMG what is that?!’ thing. I mixed it up and set it on the counter and walked away, and he sat in front of the counter starring for the whole hour until feeding time. He gobbled up half right away, wandered off for a while, then came and ate the other half and licked the mess (which there was quite a lot of — it soaked for way longer than the bag said to and I think it should have gone even longer) off the floor. This whole time the other dog – who is separated off from him during food time as she steals food – was barking like crazy wanting to try it too (usually she just stands and watches) XD

Reading the review on this site, it looks like it might actually be a good option for *both* dogs with a bit of supplementation added? It’s only a little more expensive per serving than TOTW, and might help with the girl’s weight problem and more fat could be added for the old boy.

[pugmomsandy]

If they’re still in the acute phase I might lightly cook the turkey just to get the most fat out of it and then continue to feed low fat for at least a week and then very slowly increase the fat amount in weekly increments. That way you can judge the amount of fat they can handle and possible follow up with bloodwork. I’m thinking it could take a couple months. What amount of fat were they eating before raw food?

[weimlove]

Nectarmom-
I’m so sorry about your babies 🙁 what causes pancreatitis? I know, my whole family is blaming it on raw.

[NectarMom]

Don’t beat yourself up Weimlove, you could not have known this would happen and it can happen feeding dogs anything these days. My husband is giving me grief over 2 of ours getting Pancreatitis from feeding Raw and now I am scared to death that if I get my shihtzu cleared up that giving them it again will be even worse and my husband isn’t helping matters. I hope your baby will be ok, did they run a test for Pancreatitis on your baby? Its so very painful watching your babies hurt 🙁

[weimlove]

Hdm- he is staying at the vet overnight. I take him to a holistic vet. They gave him fluids and says he has quit throwing up and having diahhrea but he’s still not eating. I’m so worried about him. My family is like ” I told ya the raw food was bad” I know it’s not bad but they are making me feel guilty

[NectarMom]

Since my 2nd bout with Pancreatitis and this girl is even worse than the first girl. I bought some Organic ground turkey and bought a bag of Organic brown rice and planned to cook the rice but mix the turkey in just raw. She cannot eat until tomorrow but I am afraid to feed her anymore Darwin’s. Shes has very runny stools all day so my vet said no food today so I plan to feed her tomorrow morning and the organic raw turkey is all I could think of to feed her unless I go back to kibble which I am trying to avoid. I should get my order from My Pet Carnivore tomorrow and I ordered 10lbs of the young ground beef but I am sure it will be in the afternoon before I get it delivered plus I want to try to mix that with the Darwin’s turkey meals to try to cut the fat in the Darwin’s meals at least in half if possible. Anyone have any thoughts to help me out?

[pugmomsandy]

If she needs help being regular then keep on using it if it was working for you until you can get the daily dose adjusted. I haven’t looked at any “colon cleanse” products but a reduced daily dose might help keep things moving so she doesn’t go 3 days in between stools. Works for me! I would think olive oil is better than castor oil or mineral oil! And I love psyllium. Buy it in bulk! Whenever we have GI issues here we go to a “simple” diet and psyllium. I have chia seed to. Tripe is suppose to be a “perfect food” yet it is very plain and simple. Even being a raw feeder I will make homemade “cow-dom”. I’m pretty sure that’s not how it is spelled since it’s Thai but it is basically rice porridge with meat/eggs/greens, anything I want to put in it and feed it to my 14 yr old foster with his kibble. I just got him at age 14 so I didn’t want to bomb his system with raw! I dog-sat him in December and he came with a bag of W/D which I begrudgingly fed him since he was not my foster. I work with what I have and feel comfortable with and make adjustments over time.

[pugmomsandy]

Is she getting Great Mender and olive oil? If so, maybe a reduction in those and some psyllium for bulk. If the first two are making her go, then at least the fiber will make it solid. Can’t say I’ve had any of those problems with all my fosters. I did get a 8 or 9 year old foster who I put on a canned food+raw diet with some psyllium and no problems. He needed to lose weight. Also try giving her less variety until she normalizes somewhat. Can you just feed her tripe for now till she settles?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Well I’m going to have to disagree with whoever is saying she doesn’t need calcium. It’s not about if she’s getting any calcium or how much she’s getting even – it’s about the calcium being in balance with the phosphorus. Organ meat is extremely high in phosphorus and contains virtually no calcium. Muscle meat is high in phosphorus and contains virtually no calcium. Bone contains a little phosphorus but is very high in calcium (~2:1 ratio). Dogs must have their diet provide calcium and phosphorus in between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio (with about 1.2:1 being ideal). The grinds from Hare Today are whole prey so the calcium to phosphorus ratio is in balance – if you add more boneless to that you risk throwing off the ratio. You could probably be safe adding up to 20% of the meal boneless but not feeding 6 oz. boneless and 1 oz. bone in. To do the math – the grinds from Hare Today are approximately 80% muscle meat, 10% organ, 10% bone. 6 oz. of boneless meats + 1 oz. bone-in grind would result in a total of 6.9 oz. boneless meat/organs and only 0.10 oz. bone. This equates to a diet that is only 1.5% bone – a raw diet should be 10% bone. Balancing the C:P ratio is raw feeding 101 and the most important step – I can’t help but question the knowledge of someone advising you to feed predominantly muscle meat and not supplement with calcium.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Oh so he is acting sick now, I hope everything is okay!

[weimlove]

Hdm- no I don’t fast him. I’ll probably start doing that. We were up all night with him vomiting and having diahhrea. He’s at the vet now

[spoonyspork]

Okie, I’m sorry this is so long, but want to give as much background as possible for the best choice in foods.

I have an older dog — 14 years old, lab/plott hound mix, currently approximately 60 lbs and looks a little on the lean side to my liking.

We’ve been feeding him Taste of the Wild (can never remember the exact one as I just grab it based on color — it has ducks on the bag?) dry since adopting him 5 years ago, and he has thrived pretty good on that. When we first got him from the shelter he had bald patches all over (almost completely bald on the bottom half) caused by a severe allergy to fleas, and was also rather overweight. Within a few weeks he was lean and shiny with a much higher energy level, etc.

Well over the last year he has begun to show his age. He’s been developing benign tumors all over (each is kept checked by the vet), and his hair has again been falling out. He also constantly has a flea problem despite lots of flea treatments and keeping both inside and outside as flea free as possible (we have no carpet in the house and his bed is switched and washed weekly). In spite of this, he still has a very high energy level and good weight though he’d been starting to look a little TOO lean despite upping the amount of food.

But last week I thought sure I was about to lose him. Long story short, he was diagnosed with vestibular disease and sent home, told it usually improves on its own and the cause is usually never figured out unless it’s tumors on the nerves or an obvious ear infection, but if he improves it’s likely not tumors. He did improve, but the next day his appetite was gone and later started squirting diarrhea that was more blood than stool (hours prior it was normal stool)… so straight back to the vet where he was additionally found to have a GI infection, and put on antibiotics and a wet canned food (Hills I/D). Additionally, the vet suggested I put him on a combo flea/worm pill since topical stuff doesn’t seem to be helping him anymore. His stool sample didn’t show worms or larvae/eggs. I said no to the pill as I wanted to research it first (which I’m pretty sure will be a ‘no’ after reading the side effects! Even just the common side effects were terrible)

It’s been a week now, and he’s slooooowly gained back an appetite as well as near normal mobility (slight head-tilt as I was told would probably happen as well as random missteps or falling over if he tries to take off at a run too quickly)… and now will not *touch* his dry food beyond a couple bites. He doesn’t seem to be being picky about it (and really isn’t a picky dog at all as a rule) — he seems to have trouble actually eating it — after a few bites his head starts to tilt worse and he seems to lose focus and get dizzy, then lose interest. I do have to put his bowl somewhere off the floor as keeping his head down for the amount of time it takes to eat seems to make him dizzy again. His stools are almost normal again though he still seems very raw and sore while trying to ‘go’. I was considering getting more of the I/D from the vet as I thought surely they gave it to us based on it being something easy on his stomach… but reading the ingredients here I’m kind of surprised he didn’t get *worse* on it.

So now my actual point! He is out of the ‘food’ from the vet so this afternoon’s meal will have to be something different (don’t worry; he’ll eat *something* if I don’t get an answer for a while!). I have the looong list of ‘best wet foods’ and was thinking of just switching to taste of the wild wet formula, but I wanted to make sure that is the ‘best’ choice as far as cost-effectiveness as well as with an older dog with the background he has (fleas, skin condition, benign tumors, etc).

I will say I have tried some freeze-dried ‘raw’ diets in the past and my dogs just never seemed to do well with it, and the extra cost, mess, amount needed to feed our large dogs etc just didn’t seem worth it. I will also say I am now somewhat leery of taste of the wild in general, as I may be taking the other dog to the vet as she’s been having very loose stools the last few days too (no blood or pure liquid like his were, but we’re keeping an eye on her) and she just started being fed from the same freshly-opened bag he’d been eating from last week (she had been eating from the older bag while he’d been eating from the freshly opened bag. Trust me it makes sense — they get different amounts that are separated by meal so sometime one ends up eating from a different bag than the other for a couple days)

Okay, I think I’ve given as much info as possible, lol. Thanks for any help!

[InkedMarie]

hi HDM,
Thanks for answering. She was eating mostly boneLESS and still sometimes not pooping unless I gave her olive oil so it appears the amount of boneless doesnt seem to matter much with her. As far as her stools, she hasn’t been a great pooper since we got her, it would take her a few minutes to get it out. Then, 2 or 3 weeks, I think, after we got her is when she ended up stopped up and had to have an enema at the vets. So, I honestly dont know how she has pooped. She was on kibble before we got her.
Before I posted here, I emailed Tracy at Hare Today. I thought she was home from vacation but wasn’t sure which is why I posted here too. This is her response:

“You are feeding 7 ounces a day right now. Is the dog maintaining weight at this? I had said to start at 6.72 ounces so you are a bit over the amount per day I would start with. Do you have a scale and weighing out portions?

Get sardine/anchovy oil or salmon oil which is fish based and use that as a daily supplement not olive oil. Olive oil is not species appropriate for a carnivore.

Try to do 4 meals of all boneless and by all means start feeding the tripe as a stand alone meal, as tripe has a lot of amino acids in it. Do every 5th or 6th meal with the meat/bone/organ grind and once a week add a tablespoon or so of the organ blend and see what happens. As I said you may need to keep tweaking this for her and see what works best. Again some dogs don’t poop every day which can be normal. I personally would not worry about it as long as she is having a BM every other day or every 3rd day.
Another thing you can do is feed a meal of a raw egg. Raw egg will also help loosen stools. Too much can cause diarrhea though so start slowly.”

My response to her is that yes, I apparently have been overfeeding a bit. I do have a scale, she already gets salmon oil. She gets a whole egg once or twice a week, the diarrhea hasn’t happened on those days but I’ll do half an egg. I told her if she poops every other day, I will have to live with that but NOT if it’s diarrhea. I have tripe and ground organs thawing now. I am going to put a tablespoon of tripe into the dogs ice cube trays and freeze them. I do that with the herring.
Comments on what Tracy said? Will check out the GI Detox

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Sorry to hear you’re having these problems. I’ve never had an issue like this with any of my dogs, however I can tell you that if you’re feeding 6 oz. boneless per day and 1 oz. of bone-in that she’s
not getting enough bone and the calcium to phosphorus ratio is off. In a prey model raw diet bone (along with fur/feathers) acts as fiber – so while excessive amounts of bone can cause constipation, so can excessive amounts of muscle meat without an adequate fiber source. Possibly a GI detox or colon cleanse might help. Wysong used to sell a great supplement called Colex (definitely would have gotten her moving), but I’m checking their site now and unfortunately it appears they aren’t selling it anymore. Swanson has a GI Detox powder that looks okay/safe for dogs. It doesn’t look as good as Colex did but it might work – I haven’t used it. They have several other colon cleansers but some I’m not sure if all the ingredients are safe for dogs. I know he colex was safe for dogs and the Swanson GI Detox looks safe. Were her stools regular before she was on raw?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Do you fast him at all? Eating twice daily or even daily isn’t natural for dogs. Some dogs will periodically fast themselves for a day or two when they feel they need it. I fast my dogs once a week. As long as he’s acting normal, his stools are normal and he’s not vomiting, I’m sure he’s fine. If it were me, I’d withold all food for 24 hours and then see if he eats – if not then you should probably call your vet. You also should probably do a little research on the medication and/or contact your vet regarding any effect it may have on appetite.

[InkedMarie]

Experienced raw feeders, help! A recap: Gemma is our senior sheltie who we got in January. No teeth. Was on Grandma Lucys dehydrated, got stopped up. Unsure why so we went to The Honest Kitchen and I added in Bravo Balance. Decided to do all raw for her so did one meal of Bravo, one of Hare Today grinds. Still having trouble pooping, found out Bravo is high in bone so went all Hare Today with her. For most days, it was:

Am meal: 1oz boneIN and 3oz boneLESS
PM meal: 3oz boneLESS
She gets chicken, turkey, duck, beef….herring twice a week. I have beef/chicken & turkey organs here and also tripe but have not defrosted it yet. She gets tripe in the beef with bone.
Most of the time, she only poops every other day, last week, she had two full days of no poop. The third day was her first day on the Great Mender, a chinese herb that she got from the holistic vet. She warned me that it can cause diarrhea but she’s taken it from the 19th on, with no diarrhea on the 20th, 21st and 22nd. Then today she had diarrhea. It’s mucousy if that matters.
A friend online who feeds prey model raw has been helping me. She has had me give olive oil three times to get her to go. I don’t know if this is something harmful or if this is what is causing the diarrhea when she does go. I just don’t know what to do next. I want to do prey model raw.
Any advice as to what to do? It’s like she doesn’t go for a day or two, then when she does, its either soft or ends up as diarrhea.
I’m also wondering if I should just put her on canned, something grainfree and mostly meat. I’m just getting discouraged here.

[NectarMom]

2nd dog with Pancreatitis 🙁 I am completely at a loss and thinking I made a HUGE mistake switching my girls to Raw. May have to find a kibble that is lower fat and grain free….ugh.

[pugmomsandy]

My foster dogs and mine have lost weight on grain free foods like Blue Buffalo Wilderness, Horizon Amicus, Wellness Core and Brothers Complete over the years and not the “diet” ones, just regular recipes. Recently my very obese foster lost 10 lbs on a grain free canned food/raw food combo diet – very low in carbs. My group only poops twice a day. Now they will poop during a walk or at the dog park just because they gotta leave one of theirs when they smell someone else’s and it’s usually not as formed because it’s usually not the time for them to go normally.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Cyndi –

It would be fine to feed Fresh Pet for one meal and a chicken leg quarter for another for a week or two. Once she becomes accustomed to the raw you can start experimenting with things other than leg quarters.

[Cyndi]

Thanks again, everyone, for all the info. I’m starting to get overwhelmed again though, lol! It doesn’t take much. I posted a question a few posts back and from what I’ve read, no one seemed to give me a definitive answer on that particular question. I’ll post that part again…. (only because I want to be absolutely sure on what I’m feeding and don’t want to start off wrong…

So, if I kept Bailey on the Deli Fresh, which I feed her in the evenings and she gets 1/2lb. of that, and I started her off with say a chicken back for the first week or so is that ok? I do prefer to feed twice a day and if she will only need like 1-1 1/2lbs of food per day do I need to add anything else? The Deli Fresh is the Chicken, vegetable & rice flavor and I know there is alot of other ingredients and vitamins and stuff in that. Maybe, I’ll switch to the Turkey flavor, if I’m starting her raw diet with chicken…

I’ll also post the ingredients of the Deli fresh/Freshpet that I plan on keeping her on, for a while anyways.

Ingredients:
Chicken, Eggs, Chicken Liver, Chicken Broth, Carrots, Brown Rice, Peas, Rice Bran, Dried Kelp, Carrageenan, Natural Flavors, Salt, Inulin, Flaxseed Oil, Green Tea Extract.

Vitamins:
Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid.

Minerals:
Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Niacin, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.

If I start her on chicken and use a chicken leg quarter or chicken back every day, is that too much bone? I think I may just be over thinking all this, and I apologize for all the questions, but I want to be sure, especially with keeping her on the Freshpet for one meal a day for a while…

Thanks again for all your help everyone! I sincerely do appreciate all your help. I’ve been printing out all your replies and referring back to it all.

[weimlove]

Hi everyone, for the past couple of days, Shadow has barely ate any of his meals. Uusually, he devoures the whole meal and never leaves a crumb, but lately he has been taking a couple bites and just leaving the rest. On Saturday evening, I gave him a whole chicken. He ate about 1 amd 1/2 pounds of it, then I picked it up and put it in the fridge for breakfast. When I gave it to him for breakfast, he wouldnt touch it. He also didnt eat any of his dinner which consisted of beef and chicken. I thought maybe it was the chicken so I offered him turkey and veggies and he wouldnt touch that either. He dosent act sick at all, and stil has all his energy. His gums look healthy, and he is drinking water and going potty. Shadow was taken to the vet on thursday because in the summer months he gets raised bumps. I take Shadow to a holistic vet & she gave him a holistic oral remedy to help with the bumps. I was thinking that it may have some affect on his appetite. But this didnt begin until yesterday morning. A few minutes ago I offered him fish, veggies, beef heart, and eggs. He ate a little peice of fish but left the rest. He is even putting his nose up at treats. Any ideas???? Thanks! I am very worried because Shadow always has a great appeteite and is never finicky.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi honeybeesmom –

I just ordered a 1 lb. bag of the Spot’s Dinner Mix. I it was manufactured last month – very fresh. It arrived 2 days after I ordered it with standard shipping. I’ve emailed Steve a few times and aleays got prompt responses. I love his book “Unlocking The Canine Ancestral Diet” (I consider it to be the best raw feeding resource available). I have not used the mix yet but I’m sure I’ll be nothing short of impressed. I wouldn’t not try it just because one person is saying they had a bad experience – look at the review section, if you wrote off every food someone conplained about you’d be left with no options. I’d try it and decide for yourself. Had I read this post prior to placing my order, I still would have ordered it.

[soho]

I would like to share my experience with see spot live longer dinner mixes.

I ordered 135 of the single serving packets on 6-5-2012. I wanted them for my own dogs and for my friends to sell at their dog wash. The packets are VERY hard to open. There is no notch in the packet so you have to cut it open. The powder inside falls out when you cut them open and it is very messy. My friends tried everything possible to sell them but people just did not want to deal with the badly designed packets and the high price. They were offered at buy one get one half off and when they still did not sell they were offered at cost.

I wanted to try this supplement but it was a pain to use so I went with other supplements for my own dogs. I contacted Steve Brown on April 6th 2013 to see if he would swap any of the old packets for the newly redesigned 1 pound bags which are over 50% cheaper per serving. Steve Brown never even bothered to respond to my email. I had to email him twice before I finally received a reply from Chris Gelalich the general manager.

Mr Gelalich offered me one bag at no cost and said I waited too long to let them know there was a problem and that the packets were now expired. I checked and the packets were made in February of 2012. So they were already 4 months old when I received them. I find this pretty strange after Steve told me:

“Our website reviews some of the major features of See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes : fresh, lean, complete and balanced ancestral-type meals for dogs. The freshness is especially important, most commercial raw diets are not fresh, and many may exceed USDA standards for “quality:” ground meat is only considered to be quality if it’s consumed less than 3 months since manufacturing.”

Today I sent my final email to Steve as it is more than 2 weeks since I first emailed him and I have sent 3 emails to him in the last week with no reply.

[Anonymous]

Hi Cyndi,

I’m glad you have made this decision. It will make a big difference–especially with dental health. All the raw feeders on here are giving great advice. 🙂

Here’s a little advice I will give from observing my own dogs. When they got ALL raw, which normally consisted of a boneless meal and a bone-in meal (a leg quarter, a leg, a thigh, wing) each day, and even 2 bony meals per day, they were fine. When I started experimenting w/using dog food for one meal, and a piece of bone-in chicken for the next, I would notice their poops were getting too hard/dry at times. I know dog foods include ingredients to help firm up stools. SO…since chicken backs are SO bony, I don’t think I would feed those every single day if I were you. They are GREAT to start with, but I really think once your dog gets used to them that first week, I personally would just buy leg quarters. My one dog is 50+ pounds and I still feed him drumsticks quite a bit. If you buy a package of quarters, you can just cut the legs off each quarter too. Sometimes THAT becomes my dogs’ entire meal for the day—the drumstick becomes the breakfast, the other part becomes the dinner. I feed whole leg quarters at times too–those are great for cleaning the teeth. I just prefer feeding 2x per day, so sometimes if that’s all I have thawed, it works best to split it up into 2 meals. Plus, I have to pay close attention to portion control for my dogs.

Just keep an eye on things when you start. If stools get too firm, lay off the chicken backs for a day or two. Don’t let this scare you, as once you get going with it, it becomes very natural. I would stick with feeding only chicken for a couple weeks. People on the forum can help you along when the time comes. It’s all about how YOUR individual dog responds to this diet. Two of my dogs have NO problem with more frequent bone-in meals or even a couple days of just boneless meals. My other dog gets looser stools easily, and does better with more bone in his diet.

Good luck! 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

Cyndi,

You can also find turkey backs at some grocery stores. Sprouts has them. Chicken heart and gizzards are also easy finds as is various livers. Only feed 5 % liver though.

[InkedMarie]

Cyndi, you mentioned “easy”. Thats me, too! I feed grinds from HareToday; my husband isn’t into feeding whole meats but he’s fine with ground. They have a huge variety and for me, it cheaper than feeding a pre made raw, depending on what I get. If I buy an exotic, that may drive the cost up a bit.

[NectarMom]

She just threw up again so I guess we are off to the Vet in the morning…sigh Very strange

[NectarMom]

Alright just a few questions because I am noticing things since my dogs have been on just Darwin’s meals and nothing else. They still have acid reflux and they are eating grass again like when they were on kibble? I give them Nyla bones to chew on and when they were on kibble they rarely chewed on them and now since being on all Raw Darwin’s meals they are tearing into the nyla bones. What in the world are they lacking? My shihtzu also threw up her morning meal of Darwin’s and then a couple of hours later I offered her more and she ate it without throwing any up. This is the first time she has done that in 5 weeks so seriously I am stumped on it and wondering why she is walking around now like she does not feel good and keeps sniffing her own behind? They all 4 are licking their feet like crazy once again and eyes are tearing really bad so I am wondering if this is still a detox that they are going through after being on Darwin’s for 7 weeks now? My one chihuahua has made her webs inbetween her feet raw and red from licking so much. What in the world??

[Cyndi]

You guys have been such a big help, thank you!

So, if I kept Bailey on the Deli Fresh, which I feed her in the evenings and she gets 1/2lb. of that, and I started her off with say a chicken back for the first week or so is that ok? I do prefer to feed twice a day and if she will only need like 1-1 1/2lbs of food per day do I need to add anything else? The Deli Fresh is the Chicken, vegetable & rice flavor and I know there is alot of other ingredients and vitamins and stuff in that. Maybe, I’ll switch to the Turkey flavor, if I’m starting her raw diet with chicken…

I AM going to do this! Next time I get paid, I am going to the butcher shop by me and buying the chicken backs and we’re gonna do this! I am determined! The only thing is I’ll probably be here asking another million and one questions…….so be prepared, lol! Thanks guys!!

[pugmomsandy]

Yikes! You can also get there by going straight to dogforums(dot)com and searching for “raw feeding pictures thread”.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

Please don’t blame yourself for the death of your previous dog. We’ve all been there and made poor nutritional choices for our animals. If you didn’t know better than it wasn’t your fault. My current dogs eat a homemade raw diet – I used to feed Beneful, Dad’s, Alpo, etc. It’s a learning experience!

I completely understand your apprehension about beginning a raw diet. I was the same way when I started. I was so concerned about percentages and how many ounces of this and how many ounces of that and worried that they were missing something or getting too much of something else. You’ll get comfortable with it, trust me. I personally started with “semi-homemade” – I’d use pre-mixes to which all I had to add was meat or buy meat/organ/bone grinds to which all I had to add was veggies and supplements. I bought Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” and finally got the confidence to try one of his recipes and make my first meal completely from scratch. I now formulate my dogs’ menus all on my own and they’re complete and balanced. Just start slow!

[theBCnut]

Sandy, I clicked on that link and it tried to give me a virus or something. I got one of those pop-up saying my computers security detected a virus, but it listed the wrong program. It wouldn’t let me exit, so I had to force it to end task. I ran my own scan and came up clean.

[Cyndi]

Thank you BRR3, very much! & Thanks pugmomsandy, I will check that out….. My biggest fear, and the reason I haven’t started my dog on all raw yet, is because I’m so afraid I won’t be able to give her or find the right variety she needs. The more I read up on what people feed their dogs the more confusing it is. I’m the type of person who likes easy. Yes, call me lazy, I admit I am, but it sure doesn’t sound easy to find all the things raw feeders feed their dogs. I have grocery stores by me, only one local butcher though. I haven’t checked with these places yet to find out costs and what’s available. I know it would get easier over time, once I get the hang of it, but I guess I’m just scared, because it’s up to me to make sure I’m giving her the right variety. I blame myself for the death of my other dog, because I had to put him down because I didn’t want to put him thru a bunch of tests and stuff at his age. The vet didn’t know what it was that went wrong with him and I believe it was a combination of feeding crappy commercial dog food, topical flea stuff and/or vaccinations.

I’ve looked up sample menus of raw feeders, hoping I guess to find that “one” that makes me say, ‘Yeah, THAT I can do’ but there is just so many things that people feed and to me it’s just overwhelming. I’m just afraid that I would give my Bailey the wrong things or not enough of the right things or whatever.

Thank you all for all your help. I guess it’s just up to me when I feel comfortable enough to make the switch. I really do appreciate all the help. I’ll just keep reading and researching and eventually, hopefully, I’ll just do it…

[pugmomsandy]

Here is a thread just for raw feeding:

http://www.dogforums.com/dog-food-forum/112667-raw-feeding-picture-thread-7.html

[Anonymous]

Hi Cyndi,

Prey Model Raw is by far the easiest and cheapest way to feed raw, in my opinion. You can spend as much or as little as you want. Since you only have one dog, it isn’t necessary to have to stock up and freeze meat if you don’t have the room or money. Your 50 lb. dog will probably need only need 1 to 1 1/2 lbs. of food per day. Buy a pack or bag of chicken leg quarters, and work around that, filling in the rest of the diet with different proteins/organs that are on sale/clearance. This does not have to be complicated, and it’s all about “balance over time”.

Of course you will want/need to feed variety, but I find that this is very affordable when you make chicken the staple. If you can get some chicken backs at the meat market, start with those for at least a couple days. They are soft/bony and recommended to start with. If you can’t find them, you can use leg quarters. You are fine feeding just chicken for a couple weeks. You will however need to start alternating in some boneless meals (every other meal if you feed 2x per day or every other day) or your dog may get too constipated from the bone. All 3 of my dogs are different, and one dog can handle more bone. You learn these things as you go along, and you adjust the diet accordingly.

Once your dog adjusts to chicken, you move onto something like turkey for a couple weeks. You can alternative it w/meals of chicken. Then you will move on to pork, beef, etc.

Heart is very rich yet very nutritious, and it’s considered muscle meat, not organ meat. It can be a staple as well for most of your boneless meals. You are fine feeding a meal of canned sardines/mackerel instead of raw once a week or so.

You don’t even need to worry about organ meat for at least 2 months. When you DO introduce it, go very slow or your dog will most likely end up with diarrhea. I’d even personally start out feeding small amounts of it along with a bony meal. Only 5 to 10% of the diet needs to be organ meat. You need to feed liver, and it’s best you feed another organ as well. If you feed chicken backs at first, your dogs will get some of the little organs that are attached early on–I never removed any of them and all was fine.

Here are foods I feed/have fed: Chicken – Frames, Backs, Leg Quarters, Legs, Breasts, Necks (to my smallest dog), Thighs, Hearts/Gizzards, Feet, Liver. Turkey: Necks, ground. Pork: Butt, Chops, Roast, Heart, Kidney, Liver, Pigs Feet. Beef: Heart, Ground, Steaks, Roast, Liver. Duck: Heads, Feet, Wings. Fish: Various frozen (thawed) and canned sardines/mackerel.

I recommend you read WORK WONDERS by Tom Lonsdale. It’s a wonderful book and easy to read/understand. Even he says that many peoples’ dogs do fine on primarily all chicken. I know my dogs get a lot of it.

Also, check out: http://www.preymodelraw.com. This site helped me learn how to feed properly.

If you’re not comfortable, you could always do a partial raw diet. I have actually been doing that for almost a couple months because I am having a graduation party soon and desperately need my freezer space for that food. So, I have been feeding part PMR and part kibble to 2 of my dogs, and PMR/canned to my other dog. Once the kibble is gone and the party is over, I would like to go back to mostly PMR, but would like to incorporate some days of canned food. Maybe you could do that OR feed raw along w/the FreshPet.

Hope this helps. Again, these are my opinions and what has worked for my dogs.