[Susan]

Hi, I feed “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb, the Australian TOTW formula has no Fish meal or Fish Oil it has Canola oil instead, Protein is 25%, fat-15% ..
My boy cant have any kibbles with Salmon Oil or Fish Oils he gets bad acid reflux, you’d have to look thru all the TOTW formulas ingredient list …
I think the American TOTW Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb formula has Canola Oil & Salmon Oil.. have a look at ingredient list. http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/#dog-formulas

Also have a look at “Canidae” Formulas there’s their Pure range or their Life Stages range http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

“Holistic Select” make single protein formulas, the Duck Meal & Rice & the Lamb Meal & Rice, both have no fish meal or fish oil..
Holistic Select have just brought out their Large Giant breed formula Chicken Meal & it has NO FISH or fish Oil…. low in protein around 26% fat-14%.
You have to read all the formulas ingredients list cause they are all a bit different which is a good thing, nothing like finding a brand & all the formulas have the same ingredients except the main proteins are different..
http://www.holisticselect.com/

[pitlove]

Hi Brian –

Serving size is effected by kcals. The higher calorie foods require less to be fed vs lower calorie foods. Perceived quality of a food has nothing to do with this. No two foods will be indentical in kcals, but some will be close enough that the feeding recommendations will not be far off.

Only problem is you have at the very least a large breed puppy if not a giant breed and keeping their weight under control during growth is of utmost importance. For that reason, a low energy density food is recommended by veterinary nutritionists.

[Jodi L]

I’m really glad I found this topic. My 7 mo old Rotti has been chewing and kicking his rear for what seems like forever! Fleas? Nope, not a one and he’s treated monthly for them. His anal sacs are full? Nope, they seem to be as empty as empty can get. Dry skin, somewhat but not really. Allergies, doesn’t seem to be an issue since it’s the only place on his body that he licks and chew excessively. Yvan became very sick over the Thanksgiving holiday. We were nearly on our way out the door to Michigan state ( A large Veteinary School University) when he made a complete turnaround. He had violent diarrhea, some vomiting and had become lethargic. He went or side and expelled from both ends….came inside and viola! Different dog. Unfortunately about a week later it happened again so we visited the vet this time. Everything checked out fine and since he’d been turning his nose up at his food for a few weeks….but had been trying to eat my others dog food (they are on a different food) we came to the conclusion that the food was not agreeing with him. He was eating at the time Wellness Large Breed Puppy Chicken and whitefish. Immediately took that food away and put him on Royal Canin Gastrointesial food for just about a month with a round of probiotics and not problems with the violent diarrhea or vomiting or lethargy since. I had also noticed that he had stopped the chewing of his rear the week or so that he had the probiotics. So he is now on VertiScience Mega Probiotic. I’ve also began feeding two candy of sardines packed in water and no salt added every week to help with his coat. I’m feeding Fiamond Naturals, No grain Salmon and sweet potato. He’s only been eating it for about 4 days and unless I’m delusional I believe the chewing is diminishing. He’s always had softer stool so I’m hoping that between the food and probiotics that it begins to get better. I couldnt figure out what was going on. Between the metallic breath, lose stool, chewing and biting..I was going insane trying to figure out what was going on with Yvan. I’m firmly convinced that all these symptoms are an anal gland issue caused hopefully by diet. Now that he’s on a Slamon and Sweet potato diet and the probiotics I’m crossing my fingers that when I go out to scoop poop that I’m scooping frozen poopcicles (frozen poop during a Michigan winter) versus frozen cow patties!

[amy r]

My girl is now just over a year old she came to us on proplan which we immediately switched off of to fromm large breed puppy. We did the slow wean ect. Runny to total liquid stools were the result several vet runs medications and different foods later I pulled her off any food with any poultry what’s so ever and put her on totw coastal het8stools were perfect in no time however she wasn’t eating it with gusts she was picking at it and eating very slowly (I was also adding salmon or sardines or Markel ) at about 9 months old I adding in a small amount of chicken soup large breed puppy to see how she did and see if I could get her to eat better which she did and I completely weaned her over to chicken soup no problem. Now skip ahead she is 13 months old and I am noticing some small skin stuff and itching my guess is the food chicken protein just isn’t working for her. I have looked at lots of foods and the only 2 I can seem to find that are totally chicken and egg free are totw ans arcana and suggestions or feedback on arcana are greatly appreciated totw is an option only she wasn’t crazy about it the first time around.

[Susan]

Hi Robert,
Why he tolerates the Hills W/D is it’s very high in Insoluble Fiber & Crude Fiber.
Crude Fiber-16.8%
Insoluble Fiber-28.8%
Soluble Fiber-1.5%
Protein is low at 18.9%
Fat is low at 9.1%
Carbs are 50.7%,
there is NO WAY you will find any dog dry kibble sold online or at a pet shop with those high fiber percentages, pet shop kibbles are for healthy dogs without any health problems……
Start looking at other vet diets like Purina contact or email Purina & other prescription vet diet companies & ask do they make a formula like the Hills W/D for diabetes/weight loss & write all the Insoluble, soluble & crude fiber percentages down, they normally ring you back to talk to you & you get free vet nutrition advice, then later look up their formulas online & see if ingredients are a bit better & see if it’s a bit cheaper..
If your vet ask why do you want to try another vet diet kibble (cause you need a prescription in America, we don’t need script in Australia, we can buy all vet diets on line) just say he’s getting sick of eating the Hills W/d & it’s getting too expensive for a large breed & I’d like to try such & such kibble it’s cheaper something like that, the Purina vet diets are very similar to the Hills vet diets & Purina is cheaper, also the protein % may be higher then the Hills W/D formula is.. then you introduce the new vet diet if he does well then start rotating between the vet diets making your boys gut stronger, 70% of our immune system is in the intestinal tract also are you giving the Purina FortiFlora Probiotic?? I know Purina has a bad name but their FortiFlora was tested with 10 other dog probiotics & Purina was one of the best of 3 that had active good bacteria the rest of probiotics were a waste of money.. I know you want cheaper kibble but all next year 2017 your going to make your boys gut healthy & strong again & the only way to do this is slowly introduce healthy whole foods that are high in omega 3 fatty acids, vitamins etc veggies high in insoluble fibers & introduce a new vet diet & look at introducing a weight management kibbles, I’ve written about weight management kibbles the 2nd last paragraph.
My boy has IBD & skin allergies, all I’ve done is research, join IBD groups trying to make him better & fix his stomach & bowel, looking for kibbles that work, introducing healthy foods in his diet that are high in Omega 3 very slowly, you start off just giving say 2-3 small pieces of peeled apple as a treat & some almonds, I bite 1/2 the almond & make Patch chew the other 1/2 of the almond he loves them & his coat has become so shinny but they can only have about 3 whole almonds a day, almonds can cause sloppy poos when given too many, when you introduce a fresh healthy food, do it same time every day, this way you know when he poos what poos are firm or a bit sloppy was that when he ate the new fresh foods ??

I started feeding a small cooked meal it was just turkey mince made into little balls baked in oven & I added some sweet potatoes, a very small meal for breakfast 7am & he still ate his vet diet at 8-9am, if your boy is thin then don’t take away any of the vet kibble if he is prefect weight then take away about 1/3 to 1/2 cup of the vet diet when adding fresh foods..

Google, vegetables that are high in Insoluble fiber & lower in soluble fiber, soluble fiber veggies ferment in the stomach, Insoluble fiber bulks up the stool, 1 serving of Sweet Potato contains 2.2 grams of insoluble fiber, I just got that online when I googled “Is Sweet Potatoes a soluble fiber” it takes time but in 1-2yrs I bet you’ll have a list of foods he can eat & be added to his kibble to make it more healthy..

Weight management kibbles are high in fiber look for weight management kibbles that are the highest in the crude fiber, you’ll find only crude fiber % on kibble bag or their internet site, you won’t find a kibble with 16% crude fiber but maybe you’ll find 10-12% crude fiber then contact that kibble company & I always send an email & write, something like, My boy has IBD & I want to try your name of kibble, my boy needs a high insoluble & low soluble diet can I please have the percentages to the soluble, insoluble & crude fiber please, get a book & start writing this all down cause later on as he gets better & older what didn’t work a few yrs ago might work later & you try again & I always go to pet shops so I can take back the kibbles when they’re money back guaranteed if they cause diarrhea…
Have you tried the Diamond Naturals Light kibble? its a weight management kibble over the yrs I’ve read a few people who have dogs with diarrhea problems do really well on the Diamond Naturals Light, I know its made by Diamond & they have a bad name but after paying triple price for a Hills vet diet what could be worse? if you find a kibble that you could even mix 1/2 vet diet & 1/2 normal kibble & poos are good who cares what brand name it is, like Taste Of The Wild, people on this site say this & that about TOTW kibbles but when I see my boy doing nice firm poos & he’s happy that’s all that matters, Contact Diamond & ask for the insoluble fiber % & the Soluble fiber % it may be close to the Hills W/d formula & this way your adding another protein to his diet which is lamb meal & this will strengthen the stomach & bowel, my boy needs a lower fiber diet he gets bad acid reflux & stomach problems when fiber is high…

Start google & find out which grains & veggies have more insoluble fiber with less soluble fiber.. Lentils are higher in insoluble fibers so look for weight management kibbles highest in the crude fibers then email the companies if he doesn’t do well on the Diamond Natural Light kibble.
It takes time but when you do find that kibble that works its like winning the lottery & when you get them OFF a vet diet its feels excellent but you still know that that vet diet will fix any diarrhea problems just for a while until you find that right kibble.

Look at Purina EN Gastroenteric Fiber Balance Canine Formula
https://www.proplanveterinarydiets.com/products/#for-dogs

Here’s the Diamond Light Naturals
http://www.diamondpet.com/our-brands/diamond-naturals/light-adult-dog/

List of high fiber foods soluble & insoluble
http://www.healthhype.com/list-of-high-fiber-foods-soluble-and-insoluble-fiber-chart.htmlesn

[Rusty T]

I could not get my dogs to eat the Orijen, but I introduced them to it after they switched to the Kentucky Plant. Prior to that, mine were on Blue Buffalo Rocky Mountain Wilderness Red Meat Formula for Large Breed Dogs. I tried different five star brands, but our German Shepard / Husky mix refused everything. (He grew up on the Blue Buffalo, because that was the only thing our Lab, who has since passed would eat.) I’d give up for a while, and then try again. I tried every flavor of the Orijen, and he just looked at me like I was nuts. He’d eat it only in the evening meal when I mixed it with a half can of the Holistic Selects Meat Pate, and even then he wasn’t crazy about it. Then I tried I And Love And You Nude (not the Naked Essentials). He took to it right away. It is grain free and you can buy it on Chewy. Of course our other dog, a rescured German Shepard will eat anything.

Both dogs have been on the I and Love and You Nude for 3 months now, and they are thriving.

[Jason C]

Hoping for a little help…..I’m the proud owner of a 10 month old Bernese Mountain Dog that lives up to his nickname of Meathead. He is currently about 105lbs, but based off vet recommendation and finances he has been fed with Hills Science Diet Large Breed Puppy formula. He hasn’t had any problems with the food, but I’ve heard a lot of people questioning Hills. I feed my other dog (60lb mix) a homemade diet (for wt control and because she’s picky) and think I may start transitioning Rufus to the same. The current recipe has pork, beef, chicken, oats, rice, veggies, and egg shells. Does anyone out there have a good recipe for a larger breed? Preferably something that isn’t going to result in me being homeless. Thanks for the help!

[Acroyali]

Hi Rob:

I’ve been a raw feeder for decades and, like pitlove stated, it’s not for every dog. I have two animals now that can’t do 100% raw, and one that gets violently ill from ingesting bones of any description. They get cooked diets, which might be something you’d be interested in researching and trying if you’re not happy feeding kibble. Mary Strauss at the dog aware website has a ton of information on balancing a cooked diet correctly (it’s more of a science than raw when it comes to balance and supplementation, but can be done.)

If he was happily eating raw, got sick, and now refuses it, I agree that he’s trying to tell you that the food just isn’t agreeing with him. It might be temporary, it might be life long, who knows. While his gut is healing, I would steer clear of raw (think of raw as cleansing, and cooked as nourishing). You can boil down bones in a crock pot and feed the stock; mineral rich and very healing to the GI tract.

If, down the road, the time comes where you feel he’s ready to try raw again I would go easy on the bone content (it’s not uncommon for small breeds and cats to do better with less bone than larger breeds), or forgo the bones all together and use a calcium supplement. But for right now, I agree with the other posters, please consider trying something else if your dog is telling you raw food isn’t working for him right now. Best of luck.

[InkedMarie]

HoundDogMom is in vet school and not around DFA.

I believe she has posted what makes a good large breed puppy food; anyone reading should double check, using her information, to make sure the food of their choice is okay for large breed puppies.

[pitlove]

Hi gmcbogger-

Victor does not make any formulas safe for large breed puppies. Another poster on here a while back got all the calcium and phos values from the company for their puppy and ALS formulas. None were appropriate.

Just because the front of the bag says “large breed puppy” does not always mean it’s safe. Holistic Select and Nutro Max are excellent examples of that. Also at one point Orijen was guilty of the same.

[gmcbogger38]

Veterinarians actually do receive kickbacks for selling Hills products. My veterinarian does not sell nor recommend that food and she even confirmed the “kickback story”. Holistic veterinarians never recommend Hills, but my veterinarian isn’t even holistic, so that is one red flag for me. I spoke with a conventional veterinarian about nutrition (not my personal vet) and he shot down my questions about the low quality ingredients in Hills by saying “you shouldn’t look at ingredients only the guaranteed analysis”. Take that how you want, but from all of my countless hours of research that does not make me feel comfortable with that brand or any company that states the same thing.

Regardless, I do not find the food to be of quality ingredients. A food that is not expensive, but is better in quality that I have personally fed and recommend is Victor. I believe it is the Chicken and Rice and Lamb and Rice formulas that are appropriate for large breed puppies.

With all of this said, though, I truly believe that you should do as much research as possible and feed what you feel comfortable feeding.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by gmcbogger38.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by gmcbogger38.

[Paula L]

I have a 6mo old lab puppy. He has already had a skin infection not sure if it is related to allergies or not. He is currently eating blue buffalo wilderness large breed chicken puppy formula. I have noticed that he does have formed stool but after he goes once he immediately goes again and it is pretty loose. Just wondering if maybe this formula could have too much fat or protein for him?? Has anyone had these issues?

[pitlove]

Hi there Nick-

I’m with anon101 on this one. Hill’s is one of the leaders in research on large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition. It is also one of the top recommendations for large breed puppy foods by board certified veterinary nutritionists. Your vet is likely making the recommendation because he believes in the food, considering you will most likely not even be buying her food from his office (hence even if he did get kickbacks from Hill’s it would be a moot point).

If your dog is doing well on the food, enjoys eating and it works for your budget, then it sounds like Science Diet is the best option. Also don’t get hung up on protein levels, as protein has been shown through 20 years of research not to effect growth in LBP’s.

[Nick B]

Hello,

Margo’s dad here again with another food question. We asked our vet what kind of food he recommended for Margo (11 month old Golden Retriever) and he said that he only recommends Hill Science Diet. Margo likes the food and we have had no issues and the large breed puppy formula seems to be in line with the calculator at 3.3/1000 for calcium and 1.2:1 for phosphorus and 30.1% protein. When we met with a dog trainer they told us that we should not be feeding Science Diet and the only reason the vet recommended is because they get a significant kick back…

I am at a bit of a loss. We are on a budget with her food and Science diet works within that budget, but I do not want to be feeding her something that is not good in the long-run for her. Is Science diet bad? Is there something else similar in price and readily available in most big pet stores for an almost 1 year old golden pup that weighs about 50 lbs.? I have looked up Pro Plan large breed puppy and is has slightly less protein at 28% and there is Blue buffalo wilderness large breed puppy and it is 35% protein but a little more expensive and Nutro Max large breed puppy and it is lower in protein at 26% and 4/1000 in calcium. Both seem in line with calcium and phosphorus. Help!?

Thanks! Nick

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by Nick B.

[Raido L]

Hello

After reading through half of this website and the forum posts I’m still a bit confused. I am currently choosing between Acana or Orijen for a large breed puppy (swiss shepherd, 4months). I read that Acana has updated their LBP food to meet a better calcium ratio, but on the website it already says calc min 1.4, phosphor min 1.0 and the ME being only 3375/kg. This showed results from the calculator as:
Calcium = 4.1 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.4 to 1

Orijens minimum claims are 1.3 calc, 1.0 phosphor and ME at 4080/kg. resulting a
Calcium = 3.2 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.3 to 1

Can this be accurate as they are both supposed to be premium foods and belonging to the same company? And those are just the minimum ratios.

As a side note, would anyone happen to know anything about a “Tundra” brand?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Marcela-
I think the slow bowl eater is a great idea! Eating too fast is not good for your puppy. Sometimes puppies eat too fast because they got used to competing with their siblings for food. She may eventually slow it down. But, yes, keep using the special bowl. Especially, if she is enjoying it.

You definitely want to keep her on a puppy food and it sounds like she may be a large breed puppy (?) in which case you will want to make sure it is an appropriate large breed puppy food.

My dogs’ do great on Whole Earth Farms. It is Merrick’s budget brand. Their puppy formula is appropriate for large breeds. Also, NutriSource is a brand that many seem happy with on this site that you could look in to. Good luck! Please give a report on how she is doing.

[Lorie D]

Could someone please suggest a pup food to wean my lg. pup onto ? He is a large breed & also a Singleton pup, I need a food with the right calcium to phosphorus ratio. He is having trouble trying to stand, I want to wean him at 3 wks. TThank you

[Carolyn K]

I have a year and a half old 68 pound Goldendoodle/Bernese Mtn Dog mix and I have to bring him in to get his anal glands expressed every month. He constantly has issues; licking, redness, skidding his butt on floor, etc. I began feeding him pumpkin at each meal and this seemed to help for a few months but it is no longer helping. He has been on CANIDAE® ALL LIFE STAGES DOG FOOD WITH CHICKEN, TURKEY, LAMB & FISH MEALS for about a year and Canidae large breed puppy before that. Info for current dog food ——-> http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-all-life-stages-dry-formula/

I am looking into maybe putting some Psyllium into his food instead of the pumpkin but I am unsure of how much. I also want to maybe switch his food to see if that helps. Can someone recommend a good kibble for dogs with this issue?

Thank you all SO much!

[mary s]

Hi Olympia…..I miss HoundDog Mom’s input too 🙁 I thought her list was very helpful.
I am feeding my Irish Setter puppy Fromm Large Breed Puppy food…..the Heartland Gold. You might check the recall lists….I think Diamond has been on there several times. Just be sure to transition your puppy from one food to another in a slow manner over a week or so. Good luck

[Susan W]

I tried Victor because it’s made locally (well, 2 counties over). I actually called them and asked if they’d ever had a recall before trying it – they haven’t. With that being said, I wasn’t impressed. The food smelled like dog food – i.e. yuck. My dogs didn’t like it either. It was a VERY short break (i.e. I bought a 5 pound bag & didn’t use all of it) in feeding VeRUS dog food. VeRUS has never had a recall, either. When I contacted them, they sent me free samples! Nice samples! My dogs really, really like this food – think Happy Feet when I set it down for them! And IT DOESN’T SMELL LIKE DOG FOOD! The formulas that utilize fish smell like fresh (live) fish all the way to the bottom of the bag. I currently feed their LifeAdvantage formula & it has no discernible smell.
VeRUS has 2 puppy food formulas, one for puppies that will grow to be less than 60 lbs, and a large breed formula. Then, as your puppy becomes a grown-up, you can easily switch to another formula for adult dogs – they have several options. The pricing for this food is very good for a premium dog food, and the results are noticeable. My dogs poop more efficiently with VeRUS. I have been fostering my mom’s dog for 3 months & have switched her to VeRUS (the dog, not my mom – LOL). The dog went from 4 poops a day w/lot of little kernels to 2 poops a day w/no little pieces. This is significant progress.
Enjoy your puppy!!

[Susan W]

Gerard F – check out VeRUS Pet Foods. They have a puppy food and a large breed puppy food. Then, as your puppy grows, you can move on to one of their other formulas. Here is the nutrient analysis for their large breed puppy formula:
rotein (min) 23% Fat (min) 15% Fiber (max) 4% Moisture (max) 10% Calcium (min) 0.9% Phosphorus (min)0.8% Omega 3 fatty acids (min)2.0%* Omega 6 fatty acids (min) 4.2%* Glucosamine 422 mg/kg* Chondroitin Sulfate 300 mg/kg* Probiotic Activity (min) 3 mil CFU/gram*
If you contact them, they will answer your questions and send free samples.
VeRUS is a 4 star here, tho I don’t know why. They’ve never had a recall in almost 30 years. They’re a small company that uses organic &/or free-range protein sources. They keep current on nutritional requirements. You might want to check them out.

[Olympia B]

Hi!!!

I’m a mommy to a 12 week old Rhodesian Ridgeback.. his breeder fed him diamond naturals large breed puppy food. I have continued him on it since he has been with me. After reading some posts, I’m not sure if I should continue him on the diamond naturals or switch to something else.. please recommend me some good foods for lbp.

[crazy4cats]

I feed mostly Whole Earth Farms, Nutri Source, Victor or Taste of the Wild kibble to my large breed dogs. I mix with either Nature’s Domain or 4Health canned foods for morning meals. In the evening, I add either eggs, sardines, tripe or raw nuggets to their meals.

Hope this helps!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by crazy4cats.

[Susan]

Hi Ryan, I watched a really good TV series last week called “Bionic Vet UK” it was about a poor large breed dog over age 7 yrs old, over a 2 week period she started limping in her back legs until she couldn’t walk anymore, she hurt her spine/disc, so her owner took her to see a special bionic vet called Dr Noel Fitzpatrick, he’s Irish & works in Surry the UK Small Animals Orthopaedics ..
Google Dr Noel Fitzpatrick, see if you can email him & ask him what you have posted here, not a real long email, short & to the point, he may email you back, he has a big heart for animals, he may give you some advice….
The dog on the Bionic vet show probably would have been put to sleep but now she walks, runs & plays like a puppy, Dr Noel has helped so many dogs that vets say, oh he’ll need to be put to sleep… there’s has to be an American Orthopaedic Animal Dr in America that will help your poor dog or can give some advice what to do that doesn’t need money..

[zcRiley]

My American Staffordshire Terriers are part Chinook, we did a DNA test, they have the black around the eyes & snout!

You’re doing fine, puppies eat a lot, withholding type or quantity in food is a myth. You wouldn’t control a human baby on how many times he/she should poop into their diaper, you know?

Caution is for large breed pups that are prone to hip dysplasia and cruciate tears (like my dogs). They had eating and growth spurts until after 3 yrs of age, stopping at 77 lbs each. I don’t free feed or force them to eat more or less. As long as the poops are healthy and there are no food intolerances, you can start rotating different kibble to introduce new protein. Follow the Bristol stool scale.

I fed Orijen puppy food and now they thrive on Zignature dog food.

[crazy4cats]

Vanessa-

Have you seen and read this artlice on the review side of this site?

/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

It has extremely important information on feeding a large breed puppy. It’s best to feed them an appropriate large breed puppy food until they are about a year old, limit exercise and make sure to keep them lean.

They do eat a lot when they are growing, don’t they? I have two 85ish pound dogs and they also liked to eat socks, gloves, rocks and anything else they could get in their mouths at that age. They eat much less these days, but I still have to keep an eye on them when it comes to the other stuff and they are five years old.

Is the formula you are feeding high in fiber? At 7 months, I would think that he should start slowing down on the amount of times he has to go #2.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Vanessa D-

Yes, it could be true that different types of food affect how much your dog poops. Also, you may be feeding too much. Are you feeding a large breed puppy recipe to him? How old is your puppy? How often are you feeding him? The younger they are, they usually do need to go more often. Puppies are a lot of work!!!! But, so cute, thank goodness!

[Vanessa D]

Hi there — I just joined today. My large breed puppy (a Chinook) is doing well on Fromm, but he poops 6-8 times per day, which seems like a lot compared to our other dogs who poop 1-2 times per day. Our vet suggested switching to a different brand of food that he would need to eat less of to feel satisfied. Anyone else grappled with this sort of shift? And is it true in your experience that different types of food lead to lower amounts of poop? He’s doing great with housetraining, but it’s gotta be tough on the guy to need to go that many times a day! Thanks.

[Sarah B]

Hi All, As other reviewers have mentioned on this website and on petfoodreviews.com.au – I HAVE ALSO FOUND BLACK HAIR IN SUNDAY PETS GRAIN FREE ADULT DOG FOOD. I purchased a 1.5kg bag of the Sunday Pets Tasty Holistic Grain Free Adult from an online pet store in Australia and noticed as I was feeding it to my dogs it had allot of black hair / fur baked into the dog biscuits, with some of the hair in clumps, it was very noticeable and I have never struck this in 10 years of buying good quality holistic dog food. I can say with confidence I have tried 80% of the grain free and holistic/natural dog food on the market available in Australia from dry food, tin food to barf. And I have NEVER seen/heard of such large quantities of hair in a baked biscuit. Nor have I ever struck any visible hair/fur in any dog food. I have heard of people in our show/rescue/breeding community striking the odd hair, but not clumps of it, in almost every biscuit. It does not look like ‘herbs’ at ALL, it is definalty some sort of animal black hair, which makes me seriously question Sunday Pets quality control. If ‘meat’ in their ingredients is Lamb, aka Sheep then why is the hair BLACK? After I struck the hair I purchased a 2nd bag, thinking that maybe I had a bad batch, but once again there was black hair in the biscuits of the 2nd bag. I hope the Sunday Pets review their QUALITY CONTROL as the food ingredients otherwise are very good and I like the idea of the large dry biscuits as its good for dogs teeth and digestion. Also my dogs did love the biscuits. I was feeding it to my dogs just as a morning treat as they have barf in the afternoon. I hope in future Sunday Pets make their Ingrediants label more transparent in particular what ‘meat’ and fix the hair issue in the biscuits, until this time I won’t purchase this product again. Regards Sarah (Australia).

[pitlove]

Hi T.G

I feel there is an obvious solution here which does not involve moving your 6 month old large breed to an adult maintenance diet like Orjien Senior… Choosing another brand that is not Orijen.

Growing puppies have a protein requirement of between 22-25% protein. Orijen is in far excess of that and for many dogs Orijens fat and protein levels are far too high. I would recommend highly considering a switch in brands. A few suggestions are: Dr. Tim’s Kinesis, NutriSource Large Breed Puppy and Precise Holistic Complete Large & Giant Breed Puppy.

Your two dogs are at very different stages of life and unfortunetly both of their needs can not be met with the same food within Orijen. An adult maintenance diet aside from usually being too calorically dense for a puppy, does not have the correct vitamin and mineral levels to sustain a growing pup.

[Susan]

Hi T.G has your girl only ever eaten just Orijen kibble have you tried any other kibbles cause of her poos are soft?
you need to try a lower protein & a lower fat kibble some dogs just do not do well on high protein high fat kibbles, I have to stay under 28% for protein & stay under 15% for fat & need a lower Kcal/per cup ME kibble, under 380 Kcals/per cup….

I would not feed a senior kibble to a large breed puppy the senior kibbles have more Glucosamine, Chondroitin & Phosphorus, supplements for older dogs joints & you have a large breed you don’t want her bones to grow too quick…maybe someone else may know more…
I’ve emailed kibble companies cause I’ve seen large breed kibbles that have ingredients that my boy can eat & the fat & protein is what Patch does well on, I’ve asked them can I feed a large breed formula to my medium size dog & they have all yes its Ok to feed my boy a large breed kibble but I don’t think it’s a good idea to feed a senior formula to a large breed growing pup…
My boy is turning 8 in a few days & I don’t feed him a senior kibble some are too high in fiber for him & all the supplements they add don’t survive or aren’t as strong as when you add your own supplement to their diet & add a healthy fresh whole food to their diet…

You have to be careful with your dog doing sloppy poos everyday that she doesn’t get thickening of the bowel as she gets older. My boy is a rescue & has IBD, his vet was very worried that Patch may have thickening of the bowel & I didn’t want Patch opened up to find out so Patch had an Ultra Scan of the bowel, pancreas, stomach etc & from what the vet could see it didn’t look like Patch had thickening of the bowel….after rotating cooked foods & different kibbles he can just be put straight onto another brand of kibble that he has eatin before I don’t have to re introduce the kibble like I use too 3 yrs ago, but I stick with kibbles that are lower in fat & lower in protein cause he just can’t handle the higher Kcal formulas.. I also fed a home cooked meal for breakfast or swap around & feed cooked meal for dinner…

I’d start rotating between different brands & proteins this way if 1 kibble isn’t balanced properly, or something else is wrong with the kibble like the omega 6 is too high & the omega 3 is real low causing health problems this way they are not eating the same kibble for too long to cause any serious health problems…
I’d start looking at other large breed formula’s where the protein fat is lower then what she’s eating at the moment also change the protein get a different protein…

There’s Earthborn Holistic, they have never had a recall, there’s “Victor” or “Sport Dog Food Elite” Sport Dog Food has similar ingredients as Victor kibble but is cheaper, there’s Ziwi Peak is air dried raw & has wet tin foods as well my cat loves Ziwi Peak…There’s Canidae there’s a few really good kibbles around, they all don’t have to be 5 stars kibble…start adding fresh whole foods to the kibble…I follow Rodney Habib on face Book he’s got a really good video this week about chicken kibbles being high in omega 6 & very low in omega 3….
Start rotating one of these brands in your rotation that is lower in fat & protein with different ingredients also look at the Kcals per cup, pick a kibble that is lower in Kcals per cup then the Orijen she is eating at the moment…I can not feed any kibbles that are over 400Kcals per cup to my IBD dog, it’s just too much for him to digest & he does sloppy big poos about 3-4 a day…
I like kibbles where he only does 2 poos a day, “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & Canidae Life Stages, All Life Stages formula, he only does 2 firm poos a day & poo’s are small….

Home Page

http://www.sportdogfood.com/grain-free-large-breed-large-bites-30-14/
http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
http://ziwipeak.com/

[T. G.]

I have a 6 month old Golden who has been on Orijen large breed puppy since I brought her home at 8 weeks. Her stool has always been like soft serve ice cream – sometimes a bit better. I’ve given her probiotics, rice, pumpkin and it helps a little. I want to switch her to a great food that will firm up her poo. And from what I’ve read, she is probably old enough to go to an adult food soon. I’m just not happy with the potato and legumes I’m seeing in even Acana foods.

I also have an 8 year old German Shepherd mix on Orijen Senior. He had the same issue as the Golden on Orijen Adult, but does GREAT and looks amazing on Orijen Senior. It would be super convenient to feed them both the same food, but like I said, I really like the Orijen ingredients better than any other food I’ve seen.

I’ve been doing a side by side comparison of the Orijen adult to Orijen senior. It really isn’t that different except less fat, more fiber. Acana is quite far off in comparison – more calcium than I’d like too.

So, if the food is good, the nutrients are there, and the calcium levels are not too high (they aren’t I checked using the calcium/phosporus calculator on this site) would there be any harm in trying Orijen senior for my 6 month old? What do I need to consider?

Here’s the comparison. Sorry the formatting is wonky.

. Orijen adult , orijen senior, acana

Crude protein (min.) 38% 38% 29 %
Crude fat (min.) 18% 15% 17 %
Crude fiber (max.) 5% 8% 6 %
Moisture (max.) 10% 10% 12 %
Calcium (min./max) 1.3 / 1.6 % 1.2 / 1.5 % 1.70%
Phosphorus (min./max) 1 / 1.3 % 0.9 / 1.2 % 1 %
Omega-6 (min.) 3% 2.50% 2.10%
Omega-3 (min.) 1.10% 1% 0.8 %
DHA (min.) 0.60% 0.60% 0.15%
EPA (min.) 0.30% 0.30% 0.15%
Ash (max.) 8% 8% 9 %
Glucosamine (min.) 1400 mg/kg 1400 mg/kg 600 mg/kg
Chondroitin (min.) 1200 mg/kg 1200 mg/kg 800 mg/kg
Microorganisms (min.) 120M cfu/kg 120M cfu/kg
pH 5.5 5.5
Vitamin A 30 kIU/kg 16 kIU/kg 50
Vitamin D 3 2 kIU/kg 1 kIU/kg 3500
Vitamin E 470 IU/kg 400 IU/kg 250
Vitamin B12 0.5 mg/kg 0.5 mg/kg 0.15
Thiamine 70 mg/kg 50 mg/kg
Riboflavin 55 mg/kg 45 mg/kg
Niacin 390 mg/kg 450 mg/kg
Pan. Acid (B5) 64 mg/kg 50 mg/kg
Pyridoxine (B6) 52 mg/kg 38 mg/kg
Folic Acid 4.7 mg/kg 5.2 mg/kg 1.3
Choline 2400 mg/kg 2700 mg/kg 1900
Sodium 0.30% 0.40% 0.3
Chloride 0.60% 0.64% 0.5
Potassium 1.00% 0.77% 0.8
Magnesium 0.12% 0.10% 0.13
Manganese 25 mg/kg 27 mg/kg
Selenium 1.2 mg/kg 0.9 mg/kg
Iron 230 mg/kg 240 mg/kg 180
Zinc 240 mg/kg 200 mg/kg 255
Copper 26 mg/kg 26 mg/kg 20
Iodine 3.6 mg/kg 1.8 mg/kg 2.7
Lysine 2.40% 2.45% 2.08
Tryptophan 0.40% 0.38% 1.2
Threonine 1.60% 1.50% 0.46
Tyrosine 0.98% 0.98%
Methionine 0.80% 0.80%
Isoleucine 1.50% 1.50% 1.15
Leucine 2.90% 2.90% 2.2
Valine 1.90% 1.85% 1.5
Arginine 2.50% 2.20% 2.15
Phenylalanine 1.60% 1.60% 1.38
Histidine 0.90% 0.80% 0.71
Cystine 0.40% 0.35% 0.32

• This topic was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by T. G..

[Molly F]

I feel like too much crap has gone down with Blue Buffalo to feed their food.
If he likes Wellness and does well on it, I’d keep that going!
Also check out the Large Breed puppy article and thread to make sure you’ve got safe calcium levels.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Molly F.

[Ted S]

Not nominating, but wondering if 4health Grain-Free Large Breed Formula Adult Dog Food has been looked at recently?

Ted

[PuppyMom3]

Background

Our two sweet pups are a medley of health issues. You know the concept of mutts being healthier because of the diverse genetics? Well, our dogs are the one in a million that have (what seems like) every possible issue from the many different breeds that make up their genetics. Both their regular vet and the neurologist theorized this may have been due to trauma in the womb since their mama was malnourished and living on the streets for so long.

A brief rundown of their more major issues include:

1) (Girl -& Boy?-) Severe food allergies with skin reactions and vomiting
2) (Girl) Possible megaesophagus (we have an appointment next month for diagnostics)
3) (Boy) Cerebellar hypoplasia
4) (Boy) Possible degenerative neurological disease (we have to wait and re-test in 6 months for changes)
5) (Boy) Probable mild case of laryngeal paralysis (not officially diagnosed but regular vet is pretty certain and we want to give our boy a break from invasive/sedation testing since he just had an MRI and spinal tap so we aren’t pushing for an official diagnosis at this time)

What I am Trying to Accomplish

With all of these issues going on, I want to make sure their food is as wholesome and non-damaging as possible. Especially since a good diet and exercise therapy can help slow the progression of neurological issues if our boy has a degenerative disease.

Previous Foods/Diets We’ve Used

Blue Buffalo Wilderness
Blue Buffalo Freedom
Taste of the Wild
Blue Buffalo Basics Limited Ingredient Grain Free. This seemed to work for a while but the skin issues and vomiting have returned.
Homemade diet. This was a pain in the butt. When they were younger and had their initial digestive issues, I homemade their meals for two weeks as an experiment to see if their issues cleared up. They did really well on this diet- no digestive upset, no skin issues, no vomiting, nothing. The down side was it was really time and labor intensive and the cost was astronomical. Since they were younger and in active growth stages, we spent significant time researching their required nutrition and establishing recipes that met those needs. Especially to mitigate the chances of developing hip dysplasia down the road since they are larger dogs. On top of that, we spent nearly $100 a week because hydrated, fresh food has less concentrated nutrients/calories so the dogs needed larger portions than they had with dry food. I am hesitant to go back to this method since I was making 14 cup batches of food every other day (they get just over 7 cups a day between the two of them) and spending more on their food than ours!

Things I am Considering

1) Outlandishly expensive pre-made food. Such as The Honest Kitchen. It seems to have really good ingredients but at $100 for a 10lb bag that will last between 16-20 days for one 60lb dog (so between 8-10 days for 2 dogs) that seems prohibitively expensive. (http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/marvel)
2) Outlandishly expensive homemade food. See all the notes above about the pros/cons of this.
3) Some other less expensive option I hear about on here? Labor intensive stuff is a pain in the neck since I work full time, but it is more preferable than spending significant sums of money because my husband is currently not really thrilled with the $100/10lb bag of food option.

Your Suggestions?

I would love to hear from anyone who has used pre-made meals with quality ingredients that didn’t cost an arm and a leg, or who have made their pet’s food at home without spending a fortune. All of the websites and forums that I have found almost exclusively feature people with small dogs (under 30lbs) so their efforts are a quarter of what mine would be under the same circumstances with two 60lb dogs.

[Jane E]

What breed is the dog? More times than not in a medium to large breed dog I have known many people to find the puppy formulation just too much of a good thing…just too rich. You may want to consider an adult formula

[pitlove]

Hi MomOfThor-

Holistic Select Large Breed Puppy is not appropriate for a large breed puppy as goldenstar mentioned. When I sent them a follow up email asking why their formulations were not in line with current research regarding nutrition for growing large and giant breeds from the last 20 years, their answer was that they are in the process of reformulating their LBP line to be more in line with up to date research. Not sure when that new formula is due out as she did not tell me.

Regarding what to look for in a LBP food. The calcium/phos ratio and the calcium/calorie ratio are what matters. Protein has long since been proven to be a non factor for large and giant breed growth. Unless the company provides (usually on their website) a nutrient analysis that provides the average or MAX Ca and Phos levels, you will need to do what I do and email the company directly requesting the info. The calcium calculator on this site will not work without the average or MAX Ca and Phos. If the company is unwilling to provide you with those numbers or does not understand what you are asking for, run far far away from that food.

You should be a looking for a food that has a ca/phos ratio between 1.1:1-1.5:1 and a ca/kcal ratio of 3g/1000kcals. Slightly higher or lower is not bad, but deviating too far from that is going to cause a problem. It is best to use a food with the least energy density during growth.

Star rating is of little importance especially when the food is as off the mark as both you mentioned in your posts.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by pitlove.

[MomOfThor]

Wellness core large breed puppy grain free has this ratio Calcium = 5.6 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.7 to 1 @ Calcium (Max)2.00% Phosphorus (Max)1.15% which is lower than HS but still more than recommended. So really is there a proper food with the right ratio out there?

[goldenstar]

Holistic Select LBP is listed as 4 stars for medium and small breeds only not for large breed puppies.
You did the numbers yourself with the calculator and the calcium number that you got was 6.3 g per 1000 calories and that is too high.
I wanted to try Holistic Select also, but based on the numbers, I decided against it.

[goldenstar]

MomOfThor…I copied this information from pitluv’s post on page 41 about Holistic Select Large breed puppy food. I think the calcium and calcium phosphorus ratio is too high for large breed puppy food.

From pitluv’s post:
I got an email back from Holistic Select regarding the Large & Giant Breed Puppy formula. When I used the numbers they gave me and put them into the calculator tool on here this is what I got
Calcium = 6.8 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.8 to 1
WAY too high…

Unless the ingredients have changed since that post.

[MomOfThor]

So I chose Holistic Select Large Breed Puppy Lamb and Oatmeal Formula. Was going to go with Orijen but they have really high protein of 38%, that’s why I chose Holistic, their protein is 23% and 1.1% phosphorus.

[Sian B]

My 20-week old golden retriever has been on Hills w/d kibble for the better part of a month, and before that canned i/d due to ongoing problems with loose stool/diarrhea. The time he has been on w/d has been the best stools he has had since we got him at 8 weeks. I might even go so far as to say they are normal, if voluminous.

However, neither w/d nor I/d is a puppy food, and I would like very much to get him onto an appropriate large breed puppy food ASAP. To that end, I have tried to wean him onto Wellness Core but each time I do (I have tried twice, the second time taking twice as long to do so), he gets diarrhea. I tried adding pumpkin the first time and it helped for a day but then not. The second time I tried psyllium (1/4 tsp twice a day to start) but either his reaction to the Wellness was worse this time or the psyllium REALLY did not agree with him because we ended up with liquid diarrhea (worst ever) before he was even up to 50% puppy food and 1/2tsp psyllium. He even pooped in his crate overnight!

I have taken him back to straight w/d and expect that his stool will normalize quickly. However, I am now really concerned about what food to try next. I am fairly convinced it is the fiber content of the w/d which is keeping things normal, but no puppy food I have seen comes close to that level of fiber. The highest I have seen is ProPlan, and that’s still not close.

Any suggestions would be welcome. Oh, and before you ask, yes he has been checked by a vet, including an internist.

[Carol P]

Update….I just received a call back from Acana and the max values are .3 higher for calcium and phosphorus. Putting in 1.3% calcium, 1.1% phosphorus gives me 3.7g per 1000kcal, and Ca to P ratio = 1.2 to 1. The top levels according to the list is 3.5g per 1000kcal. How bad is this for large breed puppies and/or should I switch his food after he’s been with us a month?

[Carol P]

Hi, I’m bringing home a Golden puppy in 2 weeks and he is eating Acana Heritage Fresh water Fish. I don’t see any Acanas in the large breed puppy list and was wondering if it’s not good for a large breed puppy or if it is too new to have made the list. It says “all life stages” on the bag. I plugged in the numbers in the calculator, 1% calcium, .8 phosphorus, and 3475 calories. It comes to 2.9 g per 1000kcal and Ca to P ratio = 1.3-1. It looks like it fits into the levels for large breed puppies. I have a call into Acana to make sure I have the max levels and not min., with nothing changing does this food work for a large breed puppy?

One other question if it doesn’t work out, what else can I feed him that doesn’t have chicken or white potatoes? Chicken because my other dog is allergic to it, and white potatoes per the breeder. I’d prefer grain free if possible.

Thanks in advance.

[Emily S]

A month-and-a-half ago, I acquired my 12 year old Lab from my parents, he’s been mostly seditary for the last 1+ years, and was struggling with arthritus when I got him. He could barely walk a few block.

I’ve added Glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement to his diet, along with increasing the length of his walks – to the point where he wanted to jog 2 days ago! He jogged about a quarter mile, and he doesn’t consider 1 mile to be a long enough walk 😉

He’s a very large dog, in his “prime” weighed 120lbs. He’s now down to a slim/healthy 90lbs. QUESTION: should I be feeding him Adult Dog food or Senior Dog food? Due to being seditary, he has lost the majority of the muscle mass in his hind legs – I’d like to see his strength increase. Currently feeding Fromm’s Senior Dog Food

[Donna V]

If Fish Oil is too costly, you can try using Coconut Oil. You do need to slowly build up to the suggested serving size for your dog’s weight or it can cause loose stools. If you start increasing the dosage and you notice loose stools, simply back down on the dosage. Coconut oil is beneficial for their skin, digestive, and immune systems; metabolic function; and even their bone and brain health!

For dogs:

Large-medium sized breeds: 1 measuring teaspoon to start, gradually increasing to 1-2 full, generous tablespoon size (measuring or eating type) over the course of 1-2 weeks. Add to food once a day and serve.

Small-toy dog breeds and puppies: 1/2 – 1 measuring teaspoon to start, increasing to 1 full tablespoon over the course of 1-2 weeks. Add to food once a day and serve.

[John R]

We’ve been feeding our 11 month old black lab who we switched over to Blue Buffalo Wilderness Large Breed Puppy food when we brought her home at 12 weeks. This past August we transitioned her over to Blue Buffalo Life Protection Formula Large Breed Puppy. She is now 11 months old and we are moving each of our Labs (we have 3) away from Blue. They have had more diarrhea since they’ve been eating Blue than at any other time in their lives. I’m not sure what it is about Blue, but it is making our dogs sick. They’ve had multiple recalls through the years – most recent MAY 2016 – and I have lost faith in them.

[pitlove]

Hi Nick-

I’m not familiar with Advantage. Could you mean Authority?

A 9 months old your pup’s ability to regulate calcium is starting to mature. She still is not fully able to regulate it, but she is past the critical growth period at least. I’d still recommend finding out the average or MAX calcium and phosphorus and using the calcium calculator on this site to make sure it’s safe to feed. If the company is difficult to contact or unwilling to give you a nutrient analysis on their large breed puppy formula, I’d go with another food.

[pitlove]

Hi, yes I like Pro Plan. Mainly because it has been AAFCO feed trialed on large breed puppies and is formulated by veterinary nutritionists. Not to mention Purina are one of the two leading researchers in the industry on the topic of large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition. People may view their products as inferior because they feel they use low quality ingredients. I feel those people are misinformed greatly about the proper way to evaluate a pet food.

I would also like to add that I like Fromm as well because of the companies long standing history and committment to quality control, similar to Purina.

[pitlove]

Hi Jeannine-

You will need to email the company to find out the average or MAX calcium and phosphorus levels of the food the breeder has your puppy on and then input those values into the tool found here: /best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

If the food falls between a ratio of 1.1:1-1.5:1 for Ca/Phos and a 3g/1000kcal Ca/calorie ratio then the food is safe.

A lot of breeders, vet’s, rescues, dog clubs etc are still unaware that calcium and phosphorus, plus weight gain are what put large and giant breed puppies at higher risk for DOD’s and not protein. So they focus on low protein puppy foods, not realizing protein is not the issue.