[JAYNE V]

Good morning. Our long awaited Rottweiler pup was born yesterday. In 9 weeks time she will be coming home. I will be sending our breeder food for our pup, as I would like her to start on her LBP food from the get go.

I live in South Africa and have perused HDM’s amazing list (thank you for all your efforts and research AND for sharing). I can get hold of the Earthborn Holistic food, BUT, I am a huge Orijen fan (my deceased male rottie was on it for years) and wanted to know if there is any specific reason the Orijen Large breed puppy didn’t make the list – or is it specifically due to the calcium levels? This is the food I was planning to start her on – now having 2nd thoughts due to this list.

I am a huge Champion Pet food fan, and ideally Orjien is what she will be fed for the remainder of her days – but if the calcium content is too high – I don’t want to risk it?

Any advice would be greatly appreaciated -:) Thanking you in advance.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would agree with Shasta220 about considering a raw diet. The book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown would be a great starting point. If not – the only food on your list that is appropriate for large breed puppies (to my knowledge) is Wellness CORE Puppy.

[Akari_32]

Hey guys! I’m trying to figure out the calories per cup on some of the more interesting Authority foods, and I can’t seem to turn up any way to convert kcal/kg to kcal/cup. Any help would be great!

Puppy w/ chicken 3,850 kcal/kg metabolizable energy (calculated)
Large Breed Puppy 3,635 kcal/kg metabolizable energy (calculated)
Adult Chunk (and Mini Chunk) w/ Chicken 3,730 kcal/kg metabolizable energy (calculated)
Adult Large Breed w/ Chicken 3,635 kcal/kg metabolizable energy (calculated)

The website doesn’t have an option for the Grain Free ones, but if anyone knows those, I’d like to hear about the calories/cup on those as well.

Heres the wedsite if that helps any (is it to much to ask for an email address to contact them by??)
http://authoritypetnutrition.com/index.shtml

[LexiDog]

It says “We recommend any of these brands of large breed puppy diets: Science Diet, Eukanuba, Eagle, and Nutro”. Large breed puppies and explains why these are recommended based on the protein, fat and calcium to phosphorus levels. I am sure the recommended foods are appropriate for large breed dogs but I am sure that there are quality foods out there with way better ingredients.

My poor friends dog is on the W/D diet because he is diabetic and says that he poops 6 TIMES A DAY!!! That is because he is eating just corn!! There are better foods out there especially for diabetic dogs.

SD Rx foods are garbage

[aimee]

Naturella… Since you’d trust a holistic vet with education in nutrition you may be interested to know that Susan G. Wynn, DVM, CVA, CVCH, AHG Veterinary Nutrition and Integrative Medicine
recommends Science Diet : ) susanwynn.com/uploads/Large_breed_puppy_nutrition.doc

I’m open to the idea that veterinary nutritionists and PhD nutritionists use different criteria to evaluate diets and I find that they often recommend Hills. I’ve also found that when commercial foods are fed to zoo animals Hills is often used. My local zoo feeds Hills. I asked why and if they get it as a donation and was told by the zoo nutritionist that they purchase the food and they use it because of the controlled nutrient levels and high bioavailability of the nutrients.

[InkedMarie]

LunasMom: whew! When I read your first post, I was afraid you were bringing home a pup at six weeks. Glad you aren’t. I can’t help with large breed puppy feeding but I’d choose a food on HDM’s list.

[rudy g]

Would it be ok to feed my 1year 2 month old the large breed puppy food I will be getting for Bear (7 week old timber wolf shepherd)?

I ask because I have heard it might be better than adult? Thx.

[lmnordrum]

We tried Meadow Feast when she was a younger pup and she had very loose and mucus-y stool, which is why I had to do Wellness, lol. Figured it was the lamb in there. The dog is 6 months old and has been on Wellness Core Puppy since I brought her home at 9 weeks. I was looking at the Earthborn products again last night because of the lower fat.

What I don’t understand here is if its a chicken allergy or intolerance, how come I can give her cooked chicken and there’s no problem? I’ve pored through this thread and others and keep coming back to an intolerance, but have a difficult time believing it is chicken because of how well she does on a non-kibble diet. I am leaning towards fats being the problem. But puppy can not live on fresh chicken and rice soup forever, which is why I visited the vet.

Ironically this all started about a day after I took her to a professional commercial dog facility for training class. They do doggy daycare and boarding, as well as classes. There are likely hundreds of dogs that go through that lawn and parking lot every day, and of course being a dog she had to sniff around. She also had a bite out of the cat box (eww, but someone left the gate down) three days prior, drank some standing water out of a gutter, chewed lilies and daffodil leaves and ate dirt. I have asked the vet to check for parasites along with Giardia and Coccidia, but I understand that the latter can be more difficult to find.

Right now the dog is on Flagyl and Pepcid with a new probiotic that the vet likes (Proviable). I have the Dr Langers probiotic on order which I’ll take for myself if the animal does well on the Proviable. At this point it seems to be a mystery and I’m in the denial phase of the kibble situation because it was so sudden. We live in the country and the dog has only been in my yard (now fenced) and not exposed to other dogs until dog school. She also was boarded in April (two weeks prior to all of this) but my kennel gal did not let my animal near the others because the dog was too rough. We’ve been visiting this kennel for grooming and some short boarding since January.

I’m thinking about the fat content of the Wellness, which is pretty high (its puppy food). The current chicken/rice/homemade broth is incredibly low in fat. If she’s having problems with fats then I need a much different kibble, like for seniors or overweight dogs. But then I have the whole nutrition thing to consider because she’s just six months old and has a lot of growing to do yet. So I am now poring over lists and labels because of the things I need to avoid. I may end up with a kibble that has some grain.

I really hope the answer lies in the lab results. We’ve only had worming at 9 and 12 weeks. Some vets recommend worming monthly and my first vet did not mention this. My current vet, who I am using because there is more than one and they have a larger treatment facility, is a lot younger and didn’t scoff at me for wanting to feed probiotics or a more natural diet or even hold off on a spay until the animal was more mature. The first vet, who is the kindest person you want to meet and I’ve known for a long time, has been practicing for about 50 years and does horses and large animals and is quite well known for his equine practice. He wanted me to feed ScienceDiet crap because of all the research put behind the food. Sorry. Not feeding my dog corn or wheat. I am OK with oatmeal and rice–I don’t eat corn myself except on rare occasions so I am sure as heck not feeding it to a purebred dog who may have a sensitive digestive system because of her breed.

So now I cook chicken and rice, which is fine because we eat a lot of both here, and wait. We’ve had no diarrhea, no gas, no tummy rumbling, no nothing, since yesterday afternoon. Tummy rumbling and gas has never been a problem with the dog anyways. She was pretty hungry so I’m giving small meals of chicken/rice/broth and there are no problems. (No stool either, but her intestines were pretty empty after yesterday’s bout of diarrhea.)

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Rudy –

I wouldn’t recommend Blue Buffalo products for a large breed puppy. Proper calcium levels are crucial during the first 8 months or so in order to minimize the chances of developmental orthopedic disease and Blue won’t disclose their calcium levels.

There’s a large breed puppy forum here. There’s a list of appropriate 4 and 5 star foods somewhere in that forum, I’m sure there’s something you could find at Petsmart.

I wouldn’t recommend adding vitamins to an already balanced food unless done so at the recommendation of a veterinarian. However, there some nutraceuticals that can be beneficial – such as probiotics, enzymes, omega 3’s, wholefood/superfoods (i.e. kelp, spirulina, bee pollen, etc.), coconut oil, glandular supplements, garlic, etc. I like to keep several of these types of supplements on hand and rotate around.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[theBCnut]

Have you looked at the Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition thread under the Diet and Health Issues forum? Hound Dog Mom has done a lot of research on the issues with feeding LBPs and researched which 4 and 5 star foods are appropriate for them. Her newest list is on page 15 of that thread. I don’t have a Petsmart anywhere around me, so I have no idea what foods they carry.

[theBCnut]

For a large breed puppy, you don’t want to mess with the calcium when you are feeding the right food, which BBW isn’t. Too much calcium can cause joints to form too quickly and very poorly. If they are both grown, then no worries. However, one thing to consider with wolf hybrids is that they don’t handle carbs as well as dogs do and adding more carbs to a food may give him problems with digestion. Dogs don’t produce the enzymes necessary to break down plant cell walls, so you may just be wasting your money anyways though, unless the purpose of adding veggies is to add bulk for a dog that needs a diet.

[Tigerlily]

Hi all! I am looking for some information to help assist a puppy buyer of mine. She has a 4.5 month old standard poodle puppy that I bred. I sent puppies home on Wellness Large Breed Puppy because the calcium levels are at least somewhat moderate and advised her to be careful about feeding foods with excessive levels of calcium. (I realize the levels are still higher than the foods on HDM’s list, but because a standard poodle is in all actuality a medium sized dog, I don’t feel that it is as necessary to be as strict – just to choose a moderate food). Anyway, she told me she switched her pup to Orijen Large Breed Puppy. I suggested to her that the calcium levels in that particular food really are quite excessive and that I would recommend Acana instead. She told me that she consulted with a canine nutritionist before switching her pup and that they advised her that Orijen it was a more “premium” food than Acana. She mentioned that the calcium percent in Orijen LBP is no less than 1.2% and no more than 1.5% and Wellness min/max 1.1/1.5%. I explained that that is true, but that the total mg of calcium per kcal in Orijen is quite a bit higher. I just wanted to double check my facts here! Also, did Orijen LBP change their formula? Because what I have seen in the past was 1.5/1.7 for min/max.

[theBCnut]

Large breed dogs have unique calcium requirements to prevent joint issues. Look under the Diet and Health Issues forum for the thread on Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition and read the first few pages of it. Hound Dog Mom’s newest list of appropriate foods is on page 15.

[sdb421]

Thank you everyone. We pick him up today. I understand that it’s best to wait until they are 8 weeks or older, but the breeder is having surgery and needed for them to be picked up now, so that is what we are doing. We picked up our first lab (who we just had to put down 2 weeks ago due to cancer at age 12) at 6 weeks and he was perhaps the best dog I could’ve ever imagined, so I know that this guy will be okay. I will leave him on the Iams for a bit while he adjusts to his new home. From there I’m thinking of transitioning him to Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy. Does anyone have experience with this food? Thanks again!

[crazy4cats]

Hi sbd421-
Congrats on your new pup! However, it is recommended to wait until at least 8 weeks for pup to leave mom. I wouldn’t worry about transitioning pup to new food right away if you can continue with the Iams for a few weeks at least. He’ll be going through so many changes to begin with. Just let him get settled in. Labs are so full of energy! I should know, I have two. There is an entire thread devoted to large breed puppies on the diet and nutrition section. There is a lot of information on the requirements of large breed pups. Most importantly is the calcium content. It is explained very well on that thread on its importance to growth. Also Hound Dog Mom has a great spread sheet on the foods that are acceptable for them. She has listed foods that are both grain free and grain inclusive in all price ranges. Check it out! I’m not sure if you have had a puppy before, especially a lab, but you are in for a lot of fun! Keep an eye on him as they will eat just about anything. Lol!

[sdb421]

We are picking up a 7 week old, black lab puppy, next week. I’m at a loss as to what dry dog food to feed him. He will be coming home on Iams Large Breed Puppy, which I’d like to wean him off of as soon as possible. Our previous lab ate Canidae ALS, which I’m open to using again, but I know that there is better available; however, I’d like to stay in this price range and get something that is easily available. I ordered our Canidae ALS bags from Amazon, which is easy since I have 3 young children, so delivered to our door step was great. We also have a Costco nearby, so I looked at Kirkland brand, but I wasn’t sure if this was a good option for a large breed puppy. Could someone give me some good options that are reasonably priced, easy to find and would be a very healthy option for a large breed puppy. Thank you!

[John B]

OK, I have did soem searching thru the forum and I can not get a clear answer to a question i have thinking about. I have a 11week old Great Dane. She is currently eating Innova Large breed puppy. I see that Innova had a recall in late 2013, but the list had a 5 star for Innova food. I am considering switching her to Orijen dry puppy. Thoughts? She likes Innova and do not want to change unless there is a neccissity to do so, but I do not like P&G either. I fed our last great dane (who lived to be 11.5yrs of age) Purina Pro Plan sensitive stomach because that was the only thing she would tolerate. I know its not the greatest nor on any list but it worked for her.

[NiceGuy55]

Hello HDM et al!

We just brought home our new 9 week old / 13 lbs Newfoundland from the breeder this weekend and I’m looking to soon transition from the Pro Plan Adult Large Breed she’s currently eating to one from the recommended list (dry kibble). She’s already on the small side for a newf and also a bit too skinny, so we’re trying to bulk her up (though still keep her on the thin side). Based on what I’ve gathered from reading nearly every post in this forum, I’ve narrowed it down to 1) Earthborn Holistic: Coastal Catch, 2) Innova LB Puppy and 3) Dr Tim’s Kinesis. Was looking at Fromm’s as well but a bit concerned about some of the recent posts about owners having issues. Also A bit hesitant on the Innova and Dr Tim’s due to the lower protein levels. Any thoughts on what food from either the grain or grain-free lists would be best for trying help her build up some some muscle but also maintain healthy growth?

Many thanks!

[Shasta220]

Geez….pro plan went GF? I’d guess this is their first GF food. I seriously have lost all respect for them! They trick so dang many people! Most people don’t think about researching out the ingredients, they’re going to trust the back of that bag to be telling truthful things. Ugh!

I mean, if they even had /one/ decent food line, then I might not hate them as much. But everything is about money, not “your pet. Our passion” smh!!!

And I’m especially upset because I have to feed it to a puppy that I take care of -_- Pro Plan Focus large breed puppy. They are a wealthy family who thinks they’re giving the best to their lil girl. I’d try to slowly move her to my food instead, but it’d be bad for her if anything. As soon as she’d get used to my food, she’d have to go back to her home and eat that junk :/ she’s only 13wks and already has that signature “Labrador” stink as well as a super dry flaky coat! Poor baby!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shasta220.

[Jenmarlew]

Has anyone checked out Nulo Medal Series to see if it is ok for large breed puppies? It gets 5 stars but I”m not sure how to calculate the grams of calcium per Kcal to see if it fits HDM’s formula. The Puppy Formula lists Calories as 3,652 Kcal/kg, 431 kcal/cup. Calcium is 1.0% (min) and phosphorous is 0.9% (min) if it helps. Is there another number needed that I should call the company for? I’m always on the lookout for new foods that don’t give my 9 month old Bouvier gas.

[Steve K]

Need some advice for some good large breed puppy food Irish Wolfhound to be exact. Should it have glucosamine and chondroitin? Needs to promote rapid growth with healthy bones and joints.

[Tina]

Thats interesting, my dog Shadow as a puppy he was on Blue Buffalo Large Breed Puppy but after second bag of the exact same food he wouldn’t eat it at all not even to switch it to a new food.

[Julie]

Hi Rachael,

We’re getting our golden doodle in two weeks and have been doing a lot of research, too. I found this thread invaluable: /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

There’s a list of foods on page 15 of the thread.

Labbies are wonderful!! I grew up with them and we lost our 14 year old lab last summer. Have a lot of patience and give him a lot of exercise. They are fantastic with kids and quite energetic. Just keep the shoes off the floor and give him proper chew toys :).

[Rebecca P]

What is a gppd puppy food for large breed Golden Retriever?

[aquariangt]

I don’t think that pup needs large breed food. And all life stages and puppy food have the same Aafco profiles, so you’re safe there as well. I like all 4 of those foods, overall, though fromms is the only one in my current rotation

[FinnyAndLolasMom]

Hi everyone- new member here, and I’m hoping for some advice about feeding my 12 week old Irish Doodle pup (Irish Setter mixed with Standard Poodle). Both parents are approximately 65 pounds, so I assume he’ll be considered a LBP.

Long story short- he came from the breeder on Adult Purina One Lamb and Rice, and I transitioned him onto Science Diet LBP food on the advice of our vet. He had terrible diarrhea and loose stools for a couple of weeks, and after some research, I found these forums and tried a couple of things and finally settled on Earthborn Holistics Meadow Feast. I was even doing boiled chicken and rice, but the diarrhea didn’t completely go away until I stopped the rice and got him completely on the Earthborn, which led me to think it might be a sensitivity to the rice/grains. He finally has great poop (Lol) and I’m really happy with it. He is too- he gobbles it up!

However, we went back to the vet yesterday and she insisted we have him on a puppy food and that an “All Stages” food is not good for puppies. I’ve read most of this thread, and been all over the site, and I think I’ve learned enough to doubt her advice, but she does have me second-guessing myself a little bit. The only thing that worries me is that he is really thin and a little smaller than his litter mates, so I want make sure I’m giving him enough protein, fat, and calories, while watching the calcium of course! I noticed EH Meadow Feast has the lowest protein and fat of all of their varieties, so I picked up their Great Plains variety (Bison and lamb) which has higher protein and fat content, thinking I would mix it with the Meadow Feast since the rest of the ingredients looked similar. THEN I noticed the Great Plains variety is not on HDM’s awesome list for large breed pups, just the Meadow Feast and Coastal Catch.

So, here are all my questions:
Is Earthborn a good choice for him? I’ve also considered Wellness Core, Fromms Gold LBP, and Merrick- might one of these be better?
Is the Meadow Feast enough protein and fat?
Should I stay away from the Great Plains- was the calcium content too high to be included on the LBP list?

Thanks in advance for your replies!

[Rebecca P]

What large breed puppy foods are recommended?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Lynda –

What food are you currently feeding your puppy?

Have you checked out the recommended foods on the Large Breed Puppy forum and checked to see which are on the Budget Friendly Editor’s Choice List? That would be my recommendation.

[Lynda O]

I’m still confused, should I buy a better quality food for my mastiff puppy? I’ve been told the big brand I’m using is fine until he grows up. Is there something better that’s budget friendly?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Boerboel Daddy –

You do not want to put mom onto a low calcium food. Growth of the fetuses during gestation and providing the pups with milk during lactation requires massive amounts of calcium. During the final 35 days of gestation, requirements for calcium and phosphorus increase by around 60%. During lactation, depending on litter size, bitches may require between 2-5 times as much calcium as is required for adult maintenance. When you wean the pups you can place them on an appropriate large breed puppy formula. So I’d say it would be fine to stick with Acana for now.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Melissa –

I’d recommend heading over to the large breed puppy forum. It’s the second topic in the “Diet and Health Issues” forum. I think you’ll find most of your questions answered there. But, no, a large breed puppy food does not need to be (and in fact shouldn’t be) low in protein. A low calorie food is not necessary either assuming portion sizes are controlled and the dog is kept in optimal body condition.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

First, I hope more people will chime in here with helpful advice. Now, to get to your questions as best I can.

It looks like your family is adding a lot of new members to the family. How great for all of them to be able to grow up and play together – and be fed raw. Looks like you’ll have your own little support group!

1. From all my reading on forums and Facebook, finding green tripe can be tricky. Some places ban the sale of it directly to consumers while others seem to be able to get it locally. I’m currently getting mine from MyPetCarnivore.com. I’m hoping that when I find someone who will sell direct, that they’ll also be able to provide the tripe. You’ll just have to ask and if they can’t, perhaps they’ll know where to get it.

2. Sure, you can grind necks. They aren’t terribly meaty, but they’ll grind easily enough. You should be able to start giving them whole when your pup gets a bit older. Chicken necks are tiny and I give them whole to my seven month old cat. I’ve been giving whole duck and turkey necks to Mystery since I started raw, he was 10 months at the time – he’s getting a turkey neck as part of his dinner tonight.

Different nutritionists/homeopathic vets will have various opinions on what, when, how and why to feed certain ingredients. I tend to lean toward Kymythy’s advice at the moment. She raises Newfies and feeds them raw as early as four weeks. The proof is in the health of her pups and adults.

3. I’m still not feeding veggies or “super” greens. Not a “purist” or anything but I wanted to first be sure I was feeding correctly the balance of meat/bone/organs and then get a blood panel or hair sample analysis – I’ll be scheduling that next week. Mystery’s only issues are a skin flaking problem – solved with coconut oil, and motion sickness – I’m still working on that and hoping he’ll grow out of it. So, until I get an analysis that says he needs more of this or that, I’m holding off on supplementing. I do give Mystery garlic for natural pest control and I also supplement with curcumen and vitamin C because Goldens have a high cancer mortality rate. I know a lot of people use “super” this and that as well as create their own veggie mashes. I would lean toward making my own purees since I believe nutrition from the source is best.

4. Most fruits have a lot of sugar in them. I would avoid most or feed them judiciously. I’ll share a banana with Mystery from time to time as well as give him apple slices, but not as a regular part of his diet. Here’s a basic chart that lists not only veggies and fruits that are toxic to pets but also plants as well as symptoms to watch for: http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/toxic.htm. And of course, you’ll find other sites that list fewer or additional foods.

5. Ah, SWEET potatoes. I haven’t read anything that shows a good reason to add most starches. That includes potatoes, peas, some beans. Many of these veggies convert starches to sugar when cooked. I used to give a tablespoon of pumpkin when our Sunset would have loose stools, but Mystery has had no problems there – and especially not since going raw.

6. I must defer to Kymythy on adding anything at all to an eight week old puppy’s diet. If you’re balancing 80/10/10 your calcium/phosphorus ratio is in perfect sync. Adding anything may not only increase the amount of calcium but may throw off that balance. Mess with that ratio and excess calcium can be deposited on the outside of the bones causing a number of issues. We had no idea that there was an issue with LBPs and calcium when we got Sunset 11 years ago. Before she was two, she required double-hip surgery. We got her from a backyard breeder (another ignorant move on our part), didn’t know much about hip scores and fed her what surely is on the one- or two-star lists here at DFA. I’ve been ultra focused on calcium since before I got Mystery.

An excerpt from Kymythy’s book, Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats:
By the time the young are ready to go to their new homes, they should be eating whole necks and regular meals with all the extras, and you may discontinue the enzymes and probiotics (although they may help counteract the digestive stress a youngster endures when going to a new home). Youngsters may be fed three times per day from eight weeks until four to six months old, then twice daily from four to six months old until one year of age, and once daily after one year of age. Giant breeds of dogs may need to be fed twice daily occasionally during growth spurts from one to three years of age. Either feed two complete meals or one complete and one of meaty bones (bones with ample meat) only. Observe your pet and adjust amounts accordingly. Do not feed so much that the stomach becomes overly extended. Do not let your pet become obese. A very thin layer of fat over the ribs is healthy, but too much weight puts extra stress on growing bones, joints, and hearts. A healthy wild animal is a lean animal. If your pet needs to lose weight, reduce its food intake. If it needs to gain weight, increase its food. Keep in mind that growing youngsters will eat more per pound of body weight than adult animals.

Schultze, Kymythy (1999-10-01). Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats (p. 67). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

Note the information on probiotics and enzymes is directed toward breeders who feed and wean pups to raw. If your puppy has been weaned to kibble, you might want to add some kefir to his diet for a time.

7. See #6, but I will take a look at the three products you mentioned for future use. I am not trying to discourage the use of any supplementation, just use caution and be sure you’re feeding only what is essential and beneficial.

8. I’m assuming you’re referring to the products in question 6 and maybe 7, not 8. LOL! I couldn’t find a guaranteed analysis of the Urban Wolf Balancer so I would be very wary of adding it. They do provide a recipe that uses their products with an analysis and it looks good. If you feel a strong need to supplement… Questions regarding their recipe ingredients might include, where do they get their fish oil from; is it guaranteed not to contain any toxins; if you use “canned” fish, do the cans contain BPA; if natural ingredients are better, why so many dried/powdered ingredients in their mixes? This is the hard part for me – giving my money to companies that sell premixes and toppers when I can just hit the market for fresh ingredients.

9. When you’re deciding on recipes, remember that your eight week old puppy is capable of handling chunks of raw meats, organs and bones. Even if he’s been weaned onto kibble before you get him, there should be no need to transition him as he hasn’t developed an addiction to the sugars and starches yet. I’d been feeding my kitten a kibble diet for about five months when I decided to transition the cats. Since he’d been stealing raw food from the dog, I went straight to raw with him and he jumped all over it, including chicken necks and other appropriately sized bones. I feed grinds only when the weather’s so bad that I can’t even put Mystery on the screened deck, usually when it’s too cold. The cats get fed in the tiled bathroom since they don’t feel the need to drag food all over the place – yet!

Any time you freeze or cook food, you’re going to lose a bit of nutritional value. Most of us have large freezers because we buy in bulk so frozen it is. Be sure you thaw foods and try to bring them to room temp before feeding. As Alpha in my house, I pull food from the refrigerator and let it sit on the counter until I’ve finished my coffee – then they get to eat. I know some people feed frozen foods but I wouldn’t do that to a puppy. Ever get brain freeze from drinking a shake too fast? Imagine a puppy’s digestive system trying to warm up frozen meat. There may be other opinions out there on this, but I would definitely feed three times a day for the first six months and then move to twice a day until he’s at least a year old. You should be feeding him 10% of his current weight until that exceeds 2-3% of his target weight.

I love Mercola. There is a chart floating around that shows who is fighting GMO labeling and who is supporting it in WA. I use it when I go shopping and yes, some of the products I’ve purchased in the past come from companies fighting WA. Let me know if you can’t find it. I get that having to label a product 50 different ways could put a hardship on business so I would support a federal label that is nothing less than FULL disclosure. That said, I don’t trust the FDA or any other governmental agency to have my best interest at heart. I’m a big fan of personal responsibility. The government assumes I’m ignorant…, I believe it’s a choice. (Whoops, gone political.)

I’m glad you were able to find a farm so quickly to meet your raw needs. Don’t forget to pick up chicken feet, green tripe, testicles, heart, kidneys… Go for goat and rabbit as well as chicken, turkey and beef. Something that I would have gotten wrong is differentiating between what are considered organs and what is not.

Organs: Liver (5% of the diet), kidneys, spleen, brain, thymus gland, panaceas and testicles (the other 5%)

Not organs: Heart, Gizzard, Tongue, lung, trachea, green tripe (all considered as part of the 80%).

Another site for learning more about feeding raw is here: https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=116. It’s a culling of articles from a variety of sources.

I better turn my attention to the vacuum and washer now or I’m going to be overrun by tumblefurs. I look forward to seeing you on Facebook soon.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove’s Questions transferred from /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/page/66/

Hi Sharon! I will be looking into the facebook group after we get our puppy, Zeus is his name :), cause our teens don’t know about it yet and adding that group to our facebook will certainly give them a hint lolll
Someone wrote (i think it was you!?): “Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list)”
What were you told?

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.
1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?
2- Can i grind necks?
3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?
4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)
5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?
6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!
7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?
8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?
9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?
*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good Great Dane breeder. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[Arlosmom]

Hello, I’m looking for some advice and hope to find help here. I’ve read through the wealth of info on LBP nutrition here – thank you to all contributors! I just picked up our new Boxer pup (expected to top out at approx. 80lbs or so based on parents) and have had him home for just a couple days shy of 1 week. He is 9 weeks tomorrow. The breeder had the pups on Fromm Gold puppy supplementing with rice, beef, sardines, yogurt, pumpkin. Upon bringing him home, I thought I’d keep him on the food for a couple of weeks and the same regime. I have added toppers of Wellness and Trippet – just a spoonful. I planned on switching to Large Breed puppy Fromm and also wanted to pick another food from HDM’s list. I discovered yesterday that he is knuckling over – more pronounced on his left front than right but both seem to be effected. What I think it might be as that upon getting him home I instituted 2-3 very short walks each day (5-10 minutes max.) I have 3 other dogs so he has also engaged in play and my floors and the ground outside that he is on are all hard surfaces. I thought I should discontinue the walks immediately and have done so. Any advice is welcome – should I change foods right away? Information is conflicting – I’ve read that when this happens protein should be reduced and vit. C introduced?? Do you think the short walks contributed/caused this?? I can send pics as well but would need direction on how/where to post. THANK YOU in advance.

[Jackie B]

/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/ Here is the direct link to large breed puppy foods. I hope your pup lives a long and happy life.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Tina –

Protein does not contribute to developmental disorders in large breed puppies, calcium does however. Therefore it’s not necessary to restrict protein but it is necessary to ensure that the calcium levels are controlled. I’d urge you to head over to the large breed puppy forum area. There you will find links to several articles written by veterinarians explaining appropriate nutrition for large breed puppies and also a list of appropriate 4 and 5 star foods. In order to obtain the sodium levels you will likely have to contact the companies directly though. Unfortunately most companies don’t list sodium levels on the product packaging or website.

[Tina Sharp]

I have a 10 week old english bulldog that has a stage 2 heart murmur. I need a dry large breed puppy that has low salt, low protein and low calcium food. Does anyone have an idea on a large breed puppy that meets this criteria? Thank, Tina aloveoflabs

[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[MastiffLove]

Sharon,

Thanks again for your reply!

After talking about all the dog food kibbles and other food types we can give to our puppy and reading and watching videos on http://healthypets.mercola.com/ (thanks HDM) me and my wife decided that we will go raw! It might end up being more costly in the end but at least we will know for sure what is precisely in his dog food and we can have a better control on his diet plus it just makes sense to feed him that way …you don’t find kibbles in the wild!

I’ve ordered Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats Cookbook, Probiotics, Krill Oil and Spirugreen Superfood, that way i’ll have everything on hand for whatever needs our dog has. (just mentioning what i bought so far, still more to come for a complete diet like Coconut Oil and such).

I am currently researching for a meat manufacturer that provides food stores to get the best price, luckily for me there are several in my area.

We have bought the breeders kibble (1st Choice Large pup) for the first 3 weeks, then i was thinking of switching him to Orijen (i know the calcium lvl is a bit high) for the next 2 weeks to get him on a better kibble. Then mix Orijen and Raw to finally end up to only raw.

Should i switch 1st Choice and mix it with raw after the first 3 weeks and increase the raw dosage and skip Orijen entirely?…i don’t know, it would be a faster way to get him on a better and proper food balance but he would be on 1st Choice longer and honestly i really dislike the ingredient in that kibble.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~
Don’t try adding too much to the kibble you feed. All those toppers add to nutrients already in whatever kibble you decide to feed, including perhaps calcium/phosphorus – which should be your primary concern until your Mastiff is at least six to twelve months old. Not saying you shouldn’t add anything, just be mindful of what they’re adding to the diet.

When feeding kibble, it’s unlikely that you’re going to find the perfect food for a large breed puppy. When I brought Mystery home, I’d already done several months of research on food. Although I would have preferred grain-free, I couldn’t find it with an acceptable calcium percentage. I put him on Innova LBP (which has since changed their formula and I’m not sure I’d recommend it now but it’s still better than Pro Plan, Science Diet, Iams and others). I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP when he was about nine months old and able to process excess calcium properly. Orijen will tell you that they shoot for their minimum percentage but as long as they think their maximum is acceptable (and they do hide behind the AAFCO guidelines), I wouldn’t have been comfortable with it in those early months.

Mystery is now a year old and has been on a raw diet for about two months. We’ve transitioned two more Goldens in Korea with my husband and I’m working on four cats (the kitten didn’t need transitioning). If I were to get another puppy today, she’d go straight to raw where calcium/phosphorus is perfectly balanced among protein and organs in a whole-prey diet. And still I don’t add a lot to his diet. He gets coconut oil because of a skin condition, vitamin C and curcumen because of the high cancer mortality in Goldens (though the raw diet and minimalist vaccine schedule will help that as well), and garlic for pest control. I haven’t started adding any fruits & vegetables as I’m still researching their benefits (or lack thereof).

Good to see your note about not feeding RC!

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~
No, no, no – do not feed Royal Canin Giant Puppy just because it has a low calcium. I agree that the calcium should be lower than 1% to start but the food needs to be at least of decent quality. Royal Canin Giant Puppy has virtually no protein whatsoever and only junk fillers in the first five ingredients:
Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, wheat gluten, corn, corn gluten meal

You need to look over the list of foods that HDM put together at the beginning of this thread. If you’re going to continue feeding kibble, after six months of age you can move your pup to Orijen. In the meantime, find the lowest calcium, grain-free (or limited) giant/large breed puppy food you can. If a company doesn’t list their maximum calcium percentage, call them and ask.

Better yet, go raw!

[MastiffLove]

Hello everyone!

I would love some help in figuring what would be the “best” diet for my dog. Alot of you here seem to have alot of knowledge about this subject and i want to give the best diet to my dog so he will be in top health, shape and growth so he can live a great life without issues due to his diet.

On the 9th of April i am getting my Englsih Mastiff His dad is 220pounds and his mom is around 185 pounds he will be 8 weeks old he is one of the biggest of the litter. I am mentioning this so we can have an idea on an average he could possibly weight once adult and i want to promote growth and size without risking ANY health issues due to exessive or poor feeding.

I’ve been reading for quite awhile and theres so much information to consider that i’m getting overwhelmed with info lolll.

He is currently being fed with First Choice Puppy Medium and Large Breeds (4stars on the reviews here) and i will switch him to Orijen Puppy Large once i feel he feels confortable in his new home (most likely after 3 weeks he’s been here) .

I have read on here that mixing a puppies diet with diferent brands and types of food is a good thing also mixing dry kibbles with canned food is good and/or adding home food to his meals will supplement for whats missing.

But here are my questions:

1.Should i keep him on Orijen after his “switch” has been done until he reaches a certain age/weight or should i right away start “mixing things up” to best his diet?

2. Would any supplements or additives be used as a mixing ingredient to his kibbles?

3. Orijen has a Calcium (min/max) of 1.2/1.5% as wirtten on the 13kg (28.6pnd) bag enough or too much calcium? And could it be clarified, is it per portion served, over the whole bag, in one kiddle alone and such…how does those precentage work? so i can in the furture know what i’m dealing with.

4. Could someone give me a good idea on how to proceed thrue all of this like weeks old you do this, at a certain weight (considering hes not over or under weight and such) you start adding those kind of things…so on and so forth.

I understand theres alot of factors to consider like activity levels, too fat too skinny, etc. and so i will be monitoring his weight and growth weekly thrue his first year so i can spot anything different at a certain event like using a certain type of food or supplement etc. So try to be positive in giving as much detail as you can…i want to learn and i love precise and detailed info.

P.S. I live in Canada Quebec both parents are American living here in case you wish to suggest some food brands please consider i might not have access to it other then by shipping.

Sorry for the loooong post i’m french and i try to be clear on what i’m concerned about.

[LoDoVilla]

Actually I’ve had Charlie on Fromm Gold large breed puppy and it has been amazing for him. We did find out according to his vet that he had a slight case of Giardia which may have accounted for the loose stools. We are also adding pumpkin to his food and the stools are forming nicely now.

[Gina S]

I’m a long time lurker who has a similar issue with my dog. Due to an arrhythmia, mitral valve problem, enlarged heart & pancreatitis issues my dog must be on low sodium, low fat food. At first I had him eating one of the hills prescription diets, but it became too expensive coupled with all his meds (he’s a bit guy who eats a lot). So I began searching for a new food. Here’s what I found:

Wellness dog food: I emailed them recently so this is current
Chicken .14% Sodium 12% fat
Lamb .23% sodium 12% fat
Healthy Weight .11% sodium 6% fat
Senior .11% sodium 10% fat
Simple Grain-Free Salmon 0.29% Sodium 12% fat
Simple Grain-Free Turkey 0.24% Sodium 12% fat
Simple Lamb & Oatmeal 0.20% Sodium 12% fat
Simple Duck & Oatmeal 0.08% Sodium 11 % fat
Core Original 0.53% Sodium 16% fat
Core Ocean 0.69% Sodium 16% fat
Core Reduced Fat 0.50% Sodium 10% fat
Core Small Breed 0.23% Sodium 16% fat
Core Puppy 0.37% Sodium 18% fat
Core Large Breed 0.22 % Sodium 12% fat
Core Wild Game 0.22% Sodium 16% fat

California Natural/Innova/Evo all info about fat & sodium can be found on their website
http://www.naturapet.com/brands/evo
Some of the foods that I do have info on some california naturals
Grain free chicken .34% sodium 12% fat
Grain free kangaroo .26% sodium 11% fat
Chicken & brown rice weigh man. .2% sodium 7% fat
Lamb & brown rice weight man. .24% sodium 7% fat
Chicken & brown rice Senior .19% sodium 8% fat

Tufts University also has a list of dog foods
http://vet.tufts.edu/heartsmart/resources/reduced_sodium_diet_for_dogs.pdf

The food we settled on was Natures Logic Sardine Meal 10% fat and .33% sodium. Their other food while low in sodium are higher in fat.
I’m sure there are many, many more that fit are low fat, low sodium my advice would be to visit their websites and if sodium isn’t listed call or email them. Hope that helps.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Patrick. I don’t have experience with GSD’s specifically, but I do know that large breed puppies have specific dietary needs. You have to have the correct amount and balance of calcium and phosphorous in the food or they could develop orthopedic issues. Also, you must not overfeed. Slow and steady growth is best. The large breed puppy nutrition thread is a great resource.
/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/
Hound Dog Mom, a very knowledgeable member made a list of foods appropriate for large breed puppy growth. All foods on the list are 4 or 5 stars. See here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit

There are some affordable 4 and 5 star foods that won’t break the bank. You can get the best selection and price by ordering online. I like Chewy.com and Petflow.com. Both ship free with a $49 order. The most affordable foods with grain from the list are: Dr. Tim’s Kinesis, Nutrisource Large Breed Puppy, and Victor Select (Chicken & Rice or Lamb & Rice). The most affordable grain-free is Earthborn Holistic (Meadow Feast or Coastal Catch). Other grain-free foods I would consider are Wellness Core Puppy and Nature’s Variety Instinct Turkey. Grain-free foods are more expensive but you can offset the cost of feeding grain-free by alternating with grain-inclusive foods as long as your dog tolerates both. It’s best to rotate through different foods and not feed the same thing all the time. I hope this helps. Someone else may chime in and give you more specifics about GSD’s specifically.

[Patrick E]

I have a question for those out there who have experience with German Shepherds. I have a 12 week old male German Shepherd, and he is very active. I would like some feeding advice on habits, frequency, and brand advice. I’ve seen some negative comments here on the manufacturer of Diamond, unfortunately for me the breeders have fed the puppies nothing but straight up Diamond brand Lamb and Rice. They have also told me to keep the bowl full at all times, which I already knew was bad advice. I just want to make sure that my Dodger is going to be as healthy as possible. Problem is all these 5 star rated dry foods that I have been seeing range from $60-$70 per 20lb bag. Hence the frequency and amount for puppy. Is the bag going to last me a week? 2 weeks? Just some friendly advice is very welcome!

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Newfs,

Where are you located? I believe no one has responded yet because these dog foods aren’t available in the US where most of us are. The Farmina brand has been reviewed on this site but only the grain-free varieties. They received 5 stars. /dog-food-reviews/farmina-nd-grain-free-dog-food/

As Patty said, your dog is old enough now that you don’t have to worry about feeding a food appropriate for large breed puppy growth. This is what I look for in a good dog food: 30% or more protein with named meat or meat meals (ie chicken and chicken meal) and grain-free (some grains are ok if your dog does well with them, I still wouldn’t feed grains all the time).

The Enova food that you posted the analysis for looks good. The two Farmina links you posted look like good foods too. All 3 of those foods have 30% protein or higher. I prefer higher protein foods. I don’t like the Sam’s Field foods because they are lower protein. I would not feed the Fitmin foods. The Salmon & Potato has WAY too much potato (40%) and low protein. The first and major ingredient should be protein not carbohydrate. The Fitmin Rabbit & Rice has the same problem but to a lesser extent. It has 28% rice and 25% meat. Still to much carbohydrate and low protein. I would avoid foods with that much carbohydrate.

Bottomline: The Enova and Farmina foods look good. If you want to feed more variety, look for foods similar to those. Stay away from foods that have more carbohydrates than protein.

I hope that answered your questions and was helpful.

[Akari_32]

Hey guys!

I had a little bit of time to kill (yay for 3 am…?), so I went through and refined my list to 25% protein and above, and 450 calories per cup and above. There are also three that were close and cheap enough for me to maybe one day consider, which are separated at the end. This really helps me narrow down my food choices! There were so many I really didn’t even know where to begin, other than with Nutrisource because it’s available locally now. Anyways, heres my list!

Dr. Tim’s Pursuit Active
Merrick Classic Puppy Real Chicken, Brown Rice and Green Apple
Healthwise Chicken Meal and Oatmeal
Nutrisource Performance
Nutrisource Super Performance
Nutrisource Small and Medium Breed Puppy Chicken and Rice
Nutrisource Grain Free Chicken
Nutrisource Grain Free Lamb

Precise Endurance Formula
Precise Small and Medium Breed Puppy
Eagle Pack Power

Also on my mental list is Diamond Naturals and Grain Free (BIG maybe. That one will depend on finances, really), Wellness Small Breed Complete Health Toy, and Wellness Small Breed Complete Health Puppy. I plan on going to the local pet store tomorrow and seeing what of these they can order, and how much they would be. I also have to go to Pet Supermarket and confirm that they have the two Wellness foods, and their prices for the small bags (which I will only purchase with coupons, given the price), because their website SUCKS.

Why is it that small breed foods always look better than large breed ones? Dog food should be dog food, I’m just sayin’!

[Shasta220]

I feed my dogs Diamond Naturals, solely because it’s the most affordable 4-star food we have around here. I really hope your dogs do well on it. My younger ones are doing great on it, the older lab is starting to get a bit of extra grease again. She did better on other foods, but we just can’t afford them anymore.

If you have a Costco nearby (assuming you’re able to get the bigger bags), and your dogs do well on Diamond Naturals, then try looking into their Kirkland food. It’s made by Diamond, and the ingredients are very similar. About 25-30$ for a 40lb bag, and DN for me is about 33-40$ for a 40lb bag – very affordable 🙂

Ah good, I’m glad dchassett agrees with me that toy breeds do NOT need the breed specific food.

Come to think of it, DN foods are 4-star, then Extreme Athlete and Small Breed Puppy were 5-star (I haven’t looked at the ingredients to compare with other varieties yet). I wouldn’t see what would be wrong with feeding the puppy formula to other dogs, even larger adult dogs – if all the ingredients are quality and the nutrition is balanced.