[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. I came back to catch up on my reading. Thank you for addressing all of my questions. Your simplified lesson on fatty acids is great, and very helpful. I had done quite a bit of prior reading on the subject, but I think my eyes generally glossed over part way through articles because it does get so complex. I did of course read about the importance of the 6:3 ratio, but I had also decided it was best to keep the Omega 6 intake at a reasonable level so that a good ratio could be obtained without having to over-supplement with something like fish oil. I still tend to think that is a valid approach, but your lesson emphasizes to me that it is more important that the diet have plenty Omega 3s.

On the chicken-allergy-holistic-vet subject, I did quickly lose confidence in the holistic vet and discontinued that. There was no evidence pointing toward my dog being allergic to chicken, and in fact when I later had the IgE food allergy test done through another vet, he had no reaction to chicken. But, I know, IgE testing is a controversial subject, and I won’t digress. I came to suspect that this holistic vet pretty much gave every patient the same plan, regardless of what they were there for. Complete removal of chicken from the diet and take the liver support supplements and Chinese herbs that she sold. But, as bad as my experience with her was, it was not quite as bad as your holistic vet experience.

An update on my seizer. This morning I gave him a dose of CBD Oil, in addition to the Keppra in an attempt to break the pattern of daily partial seizures in the morning. It is noon now, and so far no seizure today. So if we can get through the rest of the day without one, that will be a relief. But, the goal is to stop the CBD and hope that the Keppra will kick in and help.
I do think now that the CBD Oil was probably helping to control his seizures, but I also acknowledge the elusiveness of seizures and that it may have been doing nothing except raising his liver enzymes. I was very careful in selecting a brand, and I think I was using one of the best brands out there, but it’s kind of like commercial dog food – you just never really know.
You asked about his age – he just turned 6. So he is right on the line that is typically used as a general guide for diagnosing the underlying cause. If this daily partial seizure routine continues I will probably consider an MRI.
Thanks for the kind words. M&C

[Jody S]

Large breed puppy food without chicken:
Sport Dog Food, Cub puppy
Holistic Select LBP; lamb & oatmeal
Solid Gold Wolf cub; bison
Taste of the Wild; bison & venison
Whole Hearted LBP, Beef. Petco brand
Fromm Gold Heartland LBP; beef & Pork
Null Freestyle LBP, salmon & turkey

There are a number of dry foods available that Are not specifically labeled ‘Large Breed Puppy’ but do have appropriate calcium/phosphorus ratios and calories. Good luck!

[GSDsForever]

Donna,

I agree with the recommendations above for Annamaet and Holistic Select.

I am sorry to hear about your dog’s diagnosis of DCM. I think it’s wise to have switched to a quality grain inclusive formula, from a reputable company, and 100% support your choice.

With the Farmina with Ancestral Grains, the FOS (fructooligosaccharides) and inulin, prebiotics, which also increase digestibility and absorption of other nutrients, may have been the culprit. They’re healthy ingredients, but too much/overfeeding of foods with them is known to cause flatulence and bloating in some dogs — especially when their systems are not used to them.

Is it possible you were feeding too much of the Farmina? While I didn’t experience this with my dog on it, I do know that I needed to reduce the amount of food I was feeding. By calorie basis, not just cups/weight, my dog eats MUCH less of this food to maintain her ideal weight. That might help.

I’ve fed those both Annamaet and Holistic Select w/good results, including tiny stools (esp. on the Holistic Select). Since I wanted to feed higher protein than offered in the formulas I chose, I added fish — increasing daily protein grams, while not substantially increasing calories/imbalancing the diet.

Let us know if the HS & Annamaet don’t work for you, and we’ll try to suggest others.

[GSDsForever]

Hi Nikki.

Two grain-inclusive foods I would recommend are (Eagle Pack) Holistic Select Adult Radiant Sardine, Anchovy, & Salmon, from Wellpet (Wellness brand), and Annamaet’s Option (Wild Salmon).

I would start with the Holistic Select, and see how your dog does first, as Annamaet also includes lamb. So it would be a step up, introducing 2nd protein, after seeing how your dog does with fish alone.

Farmina is another excellent European food, made in Italy but available here. But its grain inclusive line does include a cereal grain in the wheat family, a relative of common American wheat, along with oats. Wheat is one of the most common food allergens for dogs, almost as common as chicken. Therefore while I think what Farmina is using is wholesome, a dog allergic to wheat might still react to it.

I don’t like Taste of the Wild at all — but they do make a grain inclusive line (which I still would not recommend).

The most common food allergens in dogs are beef, dairy, chicken, wheat, eggs, soy, and corn. Beef is actually more common than chicken as an allergen; I think we just hear more about chicken from pet owners as more foods are chicken based.

But keep in mind that dogs with food allergies can often continue to react to new foods for quite some time, when they are not *actually* allergic to the new food ingredients. For this reason dogs need 8-12 weeks on a new food for pruritus (itching) and any other symptoms to resolve. Whatever your dog has had before, your dog may still react to, prior to getting symptoms under control — which can, but not always, require a full therapeutic trial on a novel protein (or, alternatively, hydrolyzed) first.

Has your dog had fish before? It is not a common allergen for dogs and would be a good place to start. If this change in diet doesn’t resolve things, I would recommend doing a formal diet elimination food trial w/a controlled novel protein.

The other thing to be aware of is that most commercial diets have issues with cross-contamination, which means that ingredients (like chicken or beef or wheat or corn, etc.) can be in the food without being listed on the label.

*Some* reputable good companies will take extra precautions to prevent that, knowing that a particular diet is being fed due to food allergies and intolerances — while others, despite being marketed as limited ingredient or alternative protein diets, do a pretty poor job at this, aren’t knowledgeable about it, or don’t care, and do nothing to prevent it.

[GSDsForever]

Hi Jordan.

Some additional options for grain inclusive, with NO chicken formulas include these brands:

Dr. Gary’s Best Breed, First Mate, Eagle Pack’s Holistic Select Line (see e.g. Adult Radiant Sardine, Anchovy, & Salmon), Sport Dog (e.g. Buffalo formulas), Inception, Purina Pro Plan (e.g. Salmon & Rice Sensitive Stomach & Skin), Petcurean Go!, Farmina, Annamaet, Canine Caviar, Verus, Instinct by Nature’s Variety Be Natural Salmon (includes peas #7), Nutrisource (e.g. Trout & Rice — not the large breed one), and (soon) Open Farm’s new grain inclusive line. One of the moderators here, PugMom Sandy, noted a sardine formula from Nature’s Logic also.

Purina, Hills, & Royal Canin have veterinary therapeutic formulas/prescription diets that exclude chicken as well.

The above is not an exhaustive list or a recommendation for any listed. And those are just U.S. available foods.

Your choices will depend upon what you are looking for preferentially in a formula and brand, things that you personally believe to be indicative of “high quality.”

From experience, I have known many dogs to do well on the Fromm Whitefish grain inclusive formula recommended by another poster above, especially dogs with sensitive digestive systems and needs for low residue, highly digestible. It has a nice mix of whole grains, sweet potatoes, and bland, highly digestible simple carbs.

I am currently feeding Annamaet’s Option formula (purple bag: Salmon based, w/lamb) and am very pleased with the company and the formula. To it, I daily add canned wild Alaskan salmon with bone, to bring the protein up from ~26-27% protein (dry matter, actual typical) to 30%+ (adjusted for our needs). Last month I added canned sardines.

Good luck! If you are interested in one of the above formulas/brands, I’d be happy to give you my thoughts on it.

[joanne l]

Here it the ingredients for Annameat Option:
Salmon Meal, Brown Rice, Millet, Rolled Oats, Lamb Meal, Pearled Barley, Canola Oil, Menhaden Fish Meal, Menhaden Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E)), Dried Tomato Pomace, Sun Cured Ground Miscanthus Grass, Dried Apples, Dried Blueberries, Dried Cranberries, Flax Seed Meal, Lecithin, Marine Microalgae, Salt, DL Methionine, L-Lysine, Taurine, Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Fructooligosaccharides, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, L-Carnitine, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Betaine Anhydrous, Iron Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Iodate.

This is Holistic Select:
Anchovy and Sardine Meal, Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Rice, Salmon Meal, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Oats, Flaxseed, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Pumpkin, Salmon Oil, Cranberries, Apples, Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Papayas, Choline Chloride, Blueberries, Pomegranates, Vitamin E Supplement, Inulin, Dried Kelp, Zinc Proteinate, Mixed Tocopherols added to preserve freshness, Zinc Sulfate , Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Ground Cinnamon, Ground Fennel, Ground Peppermint, Copper Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Selenite, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Dried Lactobacillus bulgaricus Fermentation Product,

[joanne l]

check out Holistic Select sardine and anchovy it doesn’t have chicken or peas or lentils or potatoes. Also Annameat option it has salmon and lamb no chicken or legumes or potatoes. Look it up on chewy.com

• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

The food he was on was probably upsetting his stomach, and his skin is bad from flea bites and he can be allergic to the flea bites. Is he treated for fleas? And give him a better food, I would start to give him Holistic Select look on chewy.com It is a good food. Right now make him some boiled chicken and rice, than start mixing in new food but do it slowly. I think it all stems from his diet, also did the vet rule out anything? By mixing in chicken with the broth into his food will get him to eat. Also you can try baby food, but get the one for infants you can get chicken and it just has chicken and chicken broth. Read the ingredients on the baby food so you get the right one, you don’t want to get the ones that have added stuff in it. I read that it will make a sick dog eat. So you can mix the baby food with his dog food.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

I like eagle pack and holistic select too, but my GSD didn’t like either of them. Plus he can’t have dog food with chicken in it and the eagle pack lamb and rice has chicken so bummer all the way around.
GSDsForever: I like that you are very knowledgeable on dog food and on top of things, I too research like crazy.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by joanne l.

[GSDsForever]

Yep, Eagle Pack/Holistic Select is owned by Berwind, under the Wellpet umbrella.

But Eagle Pack brand (and its Holistic Select line) was founded and established in 1970 as a separate company, its foods were created and formulated separately, and continue to be manufactured in its own Mishawaka, IN facility.

Since the merger, ownership acquisition by Berwind 12 years ago, there have been no adverse events involving either Eagle Pack or its line Holistic Select . . . no recalls ever.

While it’s helpful to be aware of ownership, I think it would be a mistake to conflate the Wellness range of formulas or Wellpet with Eagle Pack/Holistic Select. They have different brand histories.

[hamish]

Robert, you can add Firstmate, Holistic Select, Sport Dog Food, and Annamaet to your list. Here’s the tough part that people are forgetting. Alfalfa is a legume. Alfalfa meal is in a lot of “grain friendly” dog foods. It’s almost impossible to find a food without some type of legume. Recheck your list and see if alfalfa meal is in the ingredients. Fortunately, the alfalfa meal is so far down the list it shouldn’t be a problem.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by hamish.

[joanne l]

Holistic Select sardine and anchovy formula is chicken and poultry free and it has grains in it, it is a very good food. It is made by Wellpet. They also have a lamb and grain in one. Look it up on chewy.com The other one is Merrick classic beef formula it has no chicken and it has grains. Annameat has a good one to it is called option it is in a purple bag. Purina Pro Plan has a lamb and oatmeal sensitive skin and stomach and a salmon and rice sensitive skin and stomach with no chicken or poultry in it. I have a dog that can’t have chicken too so I know. I have used Holistic Select and now I am using Purina Pro Plan. I have also used Annameat option but my dog did not like it. Merrick I couldn’t use because it was too rich for him. So these are the ones I have used because they are NOT grain free. I prefer grains. Good Luck.

[snowtigga]

And, of course, my local WM doesn’t have the Health Extension.
Pet Supplies plus didn’t have the Holistic Select that I was looking at so we went with a small bag of Victor senior and we’ll see where to go from there.

I’d still welcome personal recommendations!

[snowtigga]

Thanks, everyone!

We don’t free freed. However, if we don’t remember to pick up their bowls when they’re done (3 areas, 3 separate bowls), *someone* who shall remain nameless but is formally called Reggie, will occasionally go over and finish it for them.

I put these foods in my cart at chewy as possibilities. Didn’t Wellness have recalls?
I’m taking into consideration that because it’s labeled “senior” doesn’t mean it’s the best choice. I’m trying to keep with a 23%/11%/5% guideline that DFA (or somewhere) deemed as being good for a senior ratio.

I’ve also got my little dog to consider, too, and I’d rather not buy her different food than the boys if I can help it.

Health Extension Lite Chicken & Brown Rice Recipe Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag
VICTOR Senior Healthy Weight Dry Dog Food, 40-lb bag
Wellness Complete Health Senior Deboned Chicken & Barley Recipe Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag
Royal Canin Golden Retriever Adult Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag
Holistic Select Adult Health Chicken Meal & Brown Rice Recipe Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag
American Natural Premium Original Recipe Dry Dog Food, 40-lb bag
Dr. Gary’s Best Breed Holistic Senior Reduced Calorie Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag

I think for today we’re going to get a small bag of the Health Extension (Vet’s Choice). I like that they don’t have any recalls and that they’re a small family business. There’s not a lot of fruit/veggies but I’ve got to compromise on something since I don’t think there’s a dog food out there that has it all.

I also appreciate the personal recommendations as that goes a long way over the impersonal articles.

[snowtigga]

I wish I could answer that but, frankly, I’m not sure. My oldest (lab/shar-pei) is 7 and I had one vet tell me he was overweight and the other said he was fine. He’s about 69 pounds at the moment but he’s been having some joint issues lately so he’s moved around even less than he normally does. To say he’s energetic would be an absolute lie.

My middle dog is supposed to be around 4-5 (lab/aussie mostly) and he’s 85 lbs – he’s the one that could stand to lose weight and as gray as his face is, I often wonder if he’s not older than we were told.

The youngest is 5 years old, about 17 lbs. (chi/spaniel) and has more energy than the boys. She doesn’t have a weight problem nor is she considered a senior. I’m not sure how to handle her food needs if I switch to a senior food for the oldest.

None of my dogs go crazy for their food. They are accustomed to being fed three meals a day equal to the suggested servings on the food. The middle dog, Reggie, is the only one who will regularly eat his food but even lately he’s not been eating as he has in the past. The oldest dog, ShyGuy, and the youngest, Yoshi, will often leave meals and eat when they feel like it.

This may be more information than needed, I know. Ideally, I need Reggie to lose about 15 pounds and ShyGuy to lose 5 at most, I think, but I’m concerned that what they’re getting in the Whole Earth Farms may be too much for their lazier days. The HS food I was referring to is called “Holistic Select Senior Health Chicken Meal & Lentils Recipe Dry Dog Food”

The top senior dog foods listed on DFA all have the peas/potatoes listed and, yes, I’m trying to avoid those because of the most recent information about them.

The information out there is just so overwhelming.

I appreciate you taking the time to ask for clarification. Not sure if what I’ve provided helps or not.

/K

[snowtigga]

Hi folks,

I’ve surfed and read and surfed and read and I’m pretty sure if I look in the mirror, my face would be blue.

My three dogs currently eat Whole Earth Farms grain-free food and I rotate between the flavors except for chicken. I had thought maybe my oldest Shar-Pei/Lab mix (7) would do better without it. There’s no real way for me to tell, though, so now I’m thinking of re-introducing chicken due to them.

It’s just incredibly difficult, it seems, to find a dog food that’s affordable, made for seniors and/or reduced activity dogs, that doesn’t have peas/potatoes/legumes/fillers but does have a good selection of fruits/vegetables which also provides joint health (bonus since I can always continue with supplements).

Maybe I’m being too selective. Holistic Select seems to come up a lot in various articles and reviews I’ve read – peas are the third ingredient. potatoes are the fifth.

Fromm Gold reduced activity doesn’t have much for fruits/vegetables in it and potatoes are the 6th ingredient.

Canidae Platinum Senior — potatoes/peas as well as Canidae Reduced Energy – same thing.

Should I not be as concerned about these ingredients if my dogs are older? I would think it’d be the opposite. I’m so lost.
I would welcome suggestions and information, please.

Thanks.

[GSDsForever]

Hi Christine. Though I’ve never fed TOTW, I’m also in the same boat looking for a new food, in light of the latest safety information re DCM.

I personally would not feed another GF formula, from another implicated company on the list (Earthborn) — even though this one does not appear to contain legumes or potatoes. I just think it is an unnecessary risk. And the carb base (tapioca/pumpkin) is still relatively more novel, less traditional and proven safe.

Re joanne’s recommendation, I can tell you that I also am considering the Holistic Select fish formula (Anchovy, Sardine, & Salmon) — though in my case, the vets and I are going to have to move my girl to any change in protein (for her) with a lot of supervision/planning, thought. She’s had pretty extensive & damaging/threatening allergic reactions and that’s scary.

I’ll share what I know re HS.

This HS line has existed for 20 yrs, and Eagle Pack (its sister company that it split off from), since 1970. Neither company has ever had a recall or major safety incident. They now are under Wellpet (Berwind family corporation), with Wellness, though operating rather independently.

HS exclusively uses its own manufacturing plant in Mishawaka, Indiana (dry food). (Cans are made by Simmons.)

HS informed me that they have a full time nutritionist on staff who formulated all the foods and remains involved. I asked if it was a veterinary nutritionist, i.e. board certified as DACVN. I was informed by phone that it is a PhD in animal nutrition. (I probably will follow up in writing to confirm and clarify.)

HS readily provided me with amounts of Taurine, prescursors Methionine & Cysteine. They stated that they have had no cases reported to them or to the FDA of DCM/heart issues from those feeding their foods.

The base looks good, as pretty traditional with primarily rice (brown and white) and oats, with a little pumpkin at #10. (Flaxseed rounds out the carb base at #8. ) They noted that 69% of the formula’s protein is animal protein (fish). Aside from the of course wild sourced sardines & anchovy, the salmon (#5 ingredient) is 96% wild and less than 4% farmed with their efforts being to have 100% wild caught fish in their formulas.

If I feed or include this formula, I would be adding sardines boosting the protein/fat and contributing some fresh/real food, along with continuing my rx’d therapeutic dosing of EPA/DHA via the wild Alaskan salmon oil I add to the food. (I use & recommend Grizzly’s brand.)

joanne, just fyi, the Annamaet GF formulas, and specifically the Aqualuk, were implicated in the FDA incident reports, and contains concentrated peas & legumes. The company was much less cited . . . which may speak well of the company . . . but still. I’d steer clear of their GF legume base formulas.

[joanne l]

I never heard of it, but why don’t you try something that been around a very long time. Maybe Victor or Purina pro plan, or Holistic Select it is made by Wellpet. Another good one is Annameat check it all out on Chewy’s website. And you can order these on there. If you are looking for fish formulas the Annameat has the Aqualuk and Holistic Select has a fish one and so does the others. Good Luck.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

I would change the diet. I have heard a lot about this and most of the time, not all the time, when a diet was changed it resolved. My GSD have anal gland issues on one of the Pro Plan dry foods, when I changed his diet it went away after a couple of weeks. So I knew for sure it was his diet. I put him on Holistic Select dry food it is very good food. So I would change the diet and do it slowly mixing old and new food over 10 days or so. I have a feeling it will help.
Also which is weird b/c my friend has a golden retriever and she is on Pro Plan shredded chicken and is having the same problem! To weird.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by joanne l.

[Vicki B]

My 11 yr old Cocker has kidney disease and had a kidney removed in April ’19. He is fed Holistic Select Adult Anchovy & Sardine and Salmon Meal Recipe along with a Salmon oil Supplement & (1) Nutramax Dasuquin with MSM daily. Is this the Best Dog for kidney Disease?

[joanne l]

Guys I really need help. Vonn cannot have chicken, so the holistic select was not working for him anymore, so I bought Purina lamb and rice and I am slowly transition with my homemade diet. He has been having good stools with beef and rice that I am making. Now with the little bit of Purina we are now having soft poop. Does this mean he has to adjust to it or is it not working? He is only been transitioning to this for 3 days what should I do?? I made a call to the vet and waiting for him to call back.

[joanne l]

Hi Sarah, if he was on Zignatures all his life I would probably think it is fine, however he has only been eating it a year so I would please talk to your vet b/c Zignature is high up there with DCM. I understand about your dog with chicken, mine to can’t have chicken and what a battle it is to find a good grain in diet w/out chicken. I was feeding Holistic Select lamb and oatmeal, but I can’t use it anymore b/c he don’t like it and will starve before eating it. I might try Victor myself they have a beef and rice without chicken and a lamb and rice.

[joanne l]

Hi Sarah, if he was on Zignatures all his life I would probably think it is fine, however he has only been eating it a year so I would please talk to your vet b/c Zignature is high up there with DCM. I understand about your dog with chicken, mine to can’t have chicken and what a battle it is to find a good grain in diet w/out chicken. I was feeding Holistic Select lamb and oatmeal, but I can’t use it anymore b/c he don’t like it and will starve before eating it. I might try Victor myself they have a beef and rice without chicken and a lamb and rice.

[joanne l]

Hi Sarah, if he was on Zignatures all his life I would probably think it is fine, however he has only been eating it a year so I would please talk to your vet b/c Zignature is high up there with DCM. I understand about your dog with chicken, mine to can’t have chicken and what a battle it is to find a good grain in diet w/out chicken. I was feeding Holistic Select lamb and oatmeal, but I can’t use it anymore b/c he don’t like it and will starve before eating it. I might try Victor myself they have a beef and rice without chicken and a lamb and rice.

[joanne l]

I remembered this post, and now I am wondering about this food. I give my dog Holistic Select, and the food first of all has been inconsistent in color and size. My dog is now refusing to eat this and is willing to eat other foods. He is not feeling well so I took him off the food cooking for him right now until I find anther food. I seen your post but thought nothing of it b/c there is something with every food, but when you see a reaction thenit is time to stop feeding.

[joanne l]

Well Anon I don’t want to feed a food that may cause harm. If Zignatures is on that bad list, will nutrisource be the same? I know Zignature is all grain free this one is grain in. I really don’t want to be afraid to use it. Maybe I should not feed it and be on the safe side? I understand what people on here are going to recommend, but don’t feel comfortable with the recommended foods either. Well I guess I am in a tough spot. I know everyone is just trying to be helpful. Sorry I am so fussy. Holistic Select is doing my dog fine, except for the fact he don’t really enjoy it.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

I don’t want to confuse anyone, but I know I am researching a lot of brands, I think I am too fussy. I still have my dog on Holistic Select lamb formula. He eats it but he don’t love it. I got a sample of Nutrisource and he like it a lot. But before I switch him I would like to know if anyone has any experience on this food. The sample I got is lamb and rice.

• This topic was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by joanne l.

[anonymous]

I have had no problem with “oat groats” in dog food. Oat groats are also listed as whole oats and sometimes even as oatmeal on dog food bags. I believe…
I have never needed the services of a nutritionist.

https://www.holisticselect.com/discover/ingredients
Oatmeal is obtained in the manufacture of rolled oat groats or rolled oats and consists of broken oat groats, oat groat chips and floury portions of the oat groats with only such quantity of finely ground oat hulls as is unavoidable in the usual process of commercial milling. It must not contain more than 4% crude fiber. Oatmeal is an excellent source of highly digestible carbohydrates, protein and nutritional fiber.

[joanne l]

I am sticking with Holistic Select, the dog does fine on it and so what if I have to put chicken broth for him to eat it. I made up my mind not to feed Fromm, they took out oatmeal and replaced it with oat groats. No thanks I will pass on Fromm.

[joanne l]

There are reasons why I change DRY foods.
When I was using Purina for 1 year everything was fine, then I bought new bag and he was sooo sick badly. I stopped the food put him on bland diet, he got better than introduce Purina again and bad stool again, so I stopped buying Purina.
I was using wellness dog food everything was fine, than he stopped eating it. Than I used Fromm years back and that was good, but he could not put on weight at all with it. And it was the grain free one. So now I am on Holistic Select. I am sorry, if the dog turns down a food I listen to him. If a company has inconsistent kibble and he gets soft stools I stop. I seen a lot of things over the years with dog food.
Meaning inconsistent kibble/ change in color. Different smell. When I see this I won’t continue to feed it and wait for something to happen. Because the last time I feed kibble that was inconsistent in color and size my dog did not do well with it no more. Yes I can continue to feed kibble like this if I want a sick dog. Today they change recipes like they change underwear. They change manufactures and so on. So call me nuts, but I know what I see. Purina was the only one that I feed that has consistent kibble, however when he got sick off of that bag I was afraid to try it again.

[joanne l]

It is really soft like mushy, hard to pick up on grass. I say I only gave him about 10 kibbles with 1 1/2 cups of his regular dry food. I have not changed foods in a while, he has been eating holistic select dry food since January. I talk about a new foods but haven’t decided yet. This was my first attempt. I have nutrisource in mind if this doesn’t work. I do change wet foods but I know that is not a problem. I been using the same ones for years.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Thanks I will call the vet, my dog just got a check up, I just called him and read the ingredients to him. He said too much fiber from bran. I thought so anyway. Some foods he switches fine and some he don’t. I have a German Shepherd they tend to have sensitive stomachs. He is tolerating the Holistic Select, but it is a choir making him eat it. If I put beef broth on it he eats it.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

I completely understand, however with this going on right now he told me advice for this situation. I am not a fan of Purina, so I am not leaning toward anyone right now. What I do know is I don’t like grain free period. So I am avoiding that for sure. My dog never did good on grain free. So I narrowed that down, however I am feeding Holistic Select right now. I may choose to try Purina to see how it goes. If it goes well with my dog than it is fine with me.

[joanne l]

Thank you Patricia, yes I do give my dog chicken boiled. He is fine, however when it is in dog food there is a problem. I know this b/c he is on Holistic Select lamb and when I introduce the chicken one he is fine for a few days then not fine. When he was on Fromm beef I tried their chicken and the same thing happens, he don’t feel well. I used Purina’s lamb and rice and he was fine when I bought their chicken and rice it was not fine. So I know it is the chicken, in dog food not my chicken. So I think it is certain parts of the chicken he can’t have. Or he may need the highest quality of chicken for it to be accepted. I know it is strange but I know this for sure. So I did want to try Fromm’s new beef and oats, b/c it is grain in, they have chicken listed as the 17th ingredient, it can’t be that much. But I guess I won’t know until I try it or just forget it.

[joanne l]

Did the vet say green tea extract in dog food can cause this?? I am wondering what everyone thinks about this?? I agree not liking it because it is from china. I called Wellpet and asked to remove it if they can. They ask me why? I said a lot of people don’t like it and I feel that it makes the dogs not like the food. I said this because it is true my dog hates all wellpet products, he eats Holistic Select but not enthused about it so I might change his diet. Anyway, they said it is “our preservative” I said I am sure you can find another preservative, after all I don’t see it in many dog foods anyway. So they said they will take it under consideration.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Thank you, I might have to change his diet because he is refusing the holistic select and he been on that since February. But he won’t eat it. I made him chicken and rice and I am going to try the Pro Plan beef and rice. I seen the beef variety Purina has. I was going to go with Victor. Some breeders feed it I found out today. But still I think I will try pro plan. I hope he can tolerate it. Fingers crossed.

[joanne l]

That is funny I am looking for the same thing. Right now I am feeding Holistic Select lamb and rice, it doesn’t have chicken and it is grain in, but it list peas one time. So I gave it a go. They do have a fish formula that doesn’t have chicken or peas just grains. I might try that. I don’t think it is high in protein, it is average, I give my dog red meat with it. I did find VIctor beef and rice, that looks good no chicken and it has grains and no peas or legumes or potatoe. I never tried it yet need some reviews on it first.

[InkedMarie]

Joanne,
Are you on FB? If yes, there is a great group I can point you to. It is run by veterinarians and knowledgeable lay people who have spent months doing research. If you join the group, you will see a chart with foods that are. Implicated in DCM and also a list of the breeds and how many have DCM. This is just dogs /owners in the group.

To answer your question, I would not feed Fromm or Holistic Select. The recommendation from the experts in the group is to feed a grain inclusive food that follows WSAVA guidelines. Those foods are Royal Canin, Iams, Eukanuba, Science Diet and Purina. Fromm has been implicated in DCM in this group but not sure about Holistic Select. It does not follow the guidelines so I would not feed it. My opinion is that I’d rather feed a food that follows these guidelines until we know more.

[joanne l]

Just curious, does anyone use Fromm anymore? I ask this because of the DCM issues. I feed Purina, Holistic Select, and Fromm. But I stopped the Fromm. My dog loves Fromm but I don’t know if I should keep it in my rotation?

[joanne l]

Just curious, does anyone use Fromm anymore? I ask this because of the DCM issues. I feed Purina, Holistic Select, and Fromm. But I stopped the Fromm. My dog loves Fromm but I don’t know if I should keep it in my rotation?

[joanne l]

I feed Holistic Select, did the vet tell you this?? I found this article so now I don’t know what to believe. I think all dog food has something wrong with it. Purina for an example has Vitamin k, and they say it can be linked to liver damage, however a lot of dogs eat it and they are fine. I am glad your dog is getting better, and appreciate you posting your experience.
ttps://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2017/06/17/green-tea-benefits-for-pets.aspx
This article states it was only in fasted dogs, but not the others. She claims it is not harmful in small amounts, just like Purina said about the vitamin k. I guess every dog handles minerals differently I suppose.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Hi I am sorry to hear about your dog, mine too does that. You are right it has something to do with his diet. My dog had a eye infection and the vet gave him antibiotics. When I stopped the med’s it returned. I knew I had to find the cause. So I switched his food and in a couple of days the eye infection went away and did not return. There is a dry food called Holistic Select, you can get it on chewy. It has a lot of probiotics in it, this food is designed for that. Read the reviews on chewy they have lamb, chicken, fish, duck, turkey flavors. I been through a lot with my other dog as well, and sometimes the vets don’t know all the exacted causes. I am not saying don’t ask a vet, but you feed the dog and observe what the outcome is. In my situation with his eyes I observed and thank God I found the cure. Just try this food and do it gradually, mixing with his old food for a 10 to 12 day period. example: if you feed 3 cups a day, than in a container mix 2 1/2 cups old and 1/2 cup new do that for 2 days. If stools are good than continue by mixing more of the new and less of the old, in 1/2 cups. example: 2 cups old and 1 cup new you get the idea. Hope it works, let me know. Believe me diet has a lot to do with it!! I think it is better to start on diet before you go to the vet a load up on meds. Certainly if diet correction does not work than go to a vet. Hope the best for you.
I forgot to mention, is he still having problems even with Crave? Well anyway if you use Holistic Select you will not need to buy probiotics. This is loaded with it. Sorry for all the edits but I knew a friend that his dog had skin problems and the vet gave him meds after meds, and finally the vet said lets change his diet and bingo his skin cleared. The owner was relieved b/c the dog was on meds for 2 years. which was not good.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Thanks everyone for the feed back, I use Holistic Select grain in made by wellpet, they been around a long time too, but I think I will keep Purina in my rotation. I like using the Pro plan, but I never tried their Savor I use Focus. Has anyone used the Savor by pro plan?

[joanne l]

Hi I am sorry to hear about your dog I have a GSD too. He has anal gland issues as well. My vet did not know what was causes it. He said “could be diet or just a condition” Well anyway, getting them expressed will fix it but the down side of that is it will come back and you will need to do it often, which is not good for the dog. It will weaken his anal glands. Anyway he was eating pro plan so I switched to Holistic Select and he seems better. Still he will lick at his bum but not often like on Pro plan. So the next step is to change the protein in his diet. I know it is not the grains that is causing it for my dog, it may be the protein. So I would try the hypoallergenic dog food and see what happens. Or try to find a LID of another brand. Best of Luck.

[christine v]

I feed my adult Orijen puppy and Holistic select small mini breed puppy, he’s a small dog and prefers smaller kibble. The ingredients are exactly the same in the puppy vs adult, except with Orijen, 20% fat in the puppy instead of 18%, and there’s a 1% difference in the holistic select.

[joanne l]

Can you feed a grain in food? If so then do that. I think Wellness is a good option, Wellness also makes Holistic Select that is a good food as well. They have a nice variety.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Thank you Candice, I just ordered Holistic Select again, I was feeding it for a month but he didn’t like it, however I did notice he stopped licking at his skin that was irritated. So I am going back to it but I am trying a different flavor he would like. So The food won’t be here for a couple of days, should I give him a homemade diet for a couple of days? Or should I feed the food I am using until it comes? I will have to do a transition and I have a big dog. So if I mix the two he won’t be hungry, however if I cook for him and transition I probably need to make a big batch of food until he is fully on new food. I am going nuts.

P.S. I do have a antifungal spray that I use and it is safe if licked, it is pretty good. I heard that apple cider vinager and water is good to use on it, but I didn’t try that yet I think it might sting. Also, I am now adding probiotics to his food. What do you mean by detoxing? Stop kibble for awhile? Use montoriay clay, sorry I can’t spell it.?

• This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Hi everyone, I put my dog on Health Extensions because he didn’t like the Holistic Select. Anyway he has been on it for 1 month and seems to be okay. I got the lamb and rice one because that is what he was eating on the other food. However, he does like it better but since he is been eating lamb formula’s I want to try different flavors. I think the lamb is making him itchy. So my question is since he is only been on Health Extensions for a month is it too soon to try their other flavors? I am always afraid of upsetting tummy. I always gradually transition so I know that part of it. But should I keep him on the lamb for a little while longer till he is really used to this food before I change proteins?

[joanne l]

Hi I know how you feel, it is very stressful. I am feeding Health Extensions and so far we like it. He was eating Holistic Select, which is good too, but he didn’t care for it. So I picked Health Extensions and I like the variety they have. Hope everything works out.

[anonymous]

I would stay away from small companies, new companies and boutique type foods.

Fromm has been around since the 1940’s

Fromm cannot be bought at chewy. What does that tell you?

PS: None of the foods you mentioned appeal to me. Never heard of Victor till I came on this forum and I have no interest in trying it.
Holistic Select sounds boutiqey.
Companies that have been around a long time are more likely to do testing and have a veterinary nutritionist on staff.