[pugmomsandy]

You can add some oil (coconut, pumpkin, or other, I have fish and Udo’s oil) to the food for added calories and also add in some Abady granular food to the one who needs to gain weight. It has around 800 calories per cup of food. If you needed to add 100 calories, that would be about 2 tablespoons.

[pacer1978]

Can a dog overdose on enzymes? I give my dogs enzymes with each meal since I feed them kibble. I didn’t realize that some dog food already have enzymes in the food such as Nature’s Variety and Nature’s Logic. So, should I still give them enzymes with their meals when I feed them that brand? I switch brands now every few bags as recommended with the understanding that each brand may use specific nutrients, minerals, and vitamins more so than others. So, by switching the brands it ensures my dogs are getting a variety of those things. If I switch between brands, but maintain the same supplements and dosages, could I potentially overdose them on anything?
This is what they get:
Daily: Nordic Naturals Fish Oil for dogs, Swanson’s joint supplement for their hips, coconut oil, enzyme with each meal, and 1 TBS supergreens
Every other Day: Probiotic and Tart Cherry (as part of their superfood). I sometimes will give Mattie a probiotic every day depending on how her ears are…she is kind of “yeasty”.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Vitamin E requirements increases with increased intake of dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs). So when feeding a diet high in omega 3’s (such as with fish oil supplementation), it’s smart to add vitamin e as well. PUFAs are highly susceptible to oxidation and vitamin e prevents oxidation of the fats in the body. I know that the AAFCO recommends that fish oil–containing diets for should be supplemented with 10 IU of vitamin E for every gram of fish oil per kg of diet. There may be adequate levels in a commercial food but I’d rather err on the side of caution. I believe Nordic Naturals already contains vitamin e (not sure how much) so you should be fine though, especially if you’re feeding a commercial food (as Melissa pointed out vitamin e supplementation becomes even more crucial when feeding homemade diets because they tend to be low in vitamin e). I personally use Carlson fish oils because they’re very high in vitamin e compared to other brands. I also supplement my dog’s diet with a full spectrum tocopherol and tocotrienol complex daily. As Sandy pointed out, it’s difficult to get all 8 forms of vitamin e in the diet (alpha-, beta-, gamma- delta- tocopherol and alpha-, beta-, gamma-, delta- tocotrienol) – most commercial foods only contain alpha-tocopherol or a few contain mixed tocopherols (I’ve never seen a commercial food with tocotrienols). I use NOW Foods Gamma E Complex because it contains all 8 forms of vitamin e.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Melissaandcrew]

I have been reading that recently as well, especially pertaining to a raw diet. However, I have never been told to supplement E when using fish oil, when feeding a commercial diet. So, I am not sure if this is the case or not.

[weezerweeks]

I give my dog Nordic natural fish oil every day and someone told me I need to use vitamin e with the fish oil. I thought he got the vitamin thru his food. He eats THK and canned foods. Should I add vitamin e?

[theBCnut]

If you are doing poultry one day and red meat the next, you do not have to worry about getting all the special oils. The rule of thumb is 3 days a week. 3 days of poultry, 3 days of red meat, and a fish day. Dogs don’t digest the seeds very well, so I have heard that it is best to get the actual oil. Some nuts and seeds ground up and added to the diet is a good thing but you can’t assume that they get enough oils from a good amount of nuts/seeds.

[Melissaandcrew]

I have to say that I have was surprised when I did a cost analysis. Granted the farm I am going to be buying from is very reasonable-less than a $1 per lb for the items I am looking for. I based my figures on two weeks of Acana/Nutrisource Vs two weeks of homemade raw. I did not figure in supplements as I already buy Fish oil, kefir, yogurt mackerel and sardines and eggs.. I did figure in the canned, Grandma Lucy’s and premade commercial raw that I buy now. I will save for each 15 days between $221 and $277.

Hubby was a “naysayer” in attempting this(too much work, clean up, bacteria etc) but he heard that and he asked if I woud like him to order a new freezer now, or should he wait a month or two? LOL. I have to tell you, I can’t wait to start grinding something..anything..if this doesn’t work out for the dogs, I may have to take up sausage making, lol.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi jimmianne –

There’s no such thing as a single “best” food. The less processed the better – so raw would be the best option, followed by fresh cooked, then dehydrated or freeze-dried, then canned, with dry food being the worst option. With whatever you feed, variety is key – don’t stick with the same food. Rotating foods helps to strengthen your dog’s gut by fostering a diverse population of microflora, gives your dog a variety of nutrients and give you options in the event of a recall. If you’re going to feed a dry food as the bulk of your pup’s diet I would add a quality “topper” – such as raw, dehydrated, freeze-dried, canned or healthy fresh foods (i.e. eggs, lean meat, plain yogurt or kefir, cottage cheese, tinned sardines, etc.). Canidae looks good on paper but I personally wouldn’t risk feeding – the majority of Canidae’s products are manufactured by Diamond who has very poor quality control and numerous recalls. Unless you live in the same state as Canidae’s plant or in a neighboring state you’re probably getting product manufactured by Diamond.

As far as supplements, some good supplements to consider would be probiotics, digestive enzymes, quality fish oil and whole food supplements (with “super foods” like kelp, spirulina, bee pollen, etc.).

[Melissaandcrew]

Well, after many phone calls, visit etc, I found a small meat processing farm that processes a lot of organic meats that is willing to sell me some of the “off casts”. The items I specifically asked for were Chicken necks, hearts/livers/gizzards, Beef heart, liver, etc. I am sure they will save any of the organs that I ask for though. Also, they process vension and can get me some of that as well, though I am assuming that will mostly be organs. We did not discuss pork etc as of yet-waiting until I pick up my first grouping to discuss further. I like to have everything here when I start a project so, if any one sees something I am missing, please let me know!

Are there any other type of meat/parts I should ask them to save? They did ask if I wanted chicken feet, but I said “not yet” as the thought just grosses me out, lol. The pricing is amazing imo, and it makes it well worth giving this a go, if if for just half their meals.

I have so far- 1) Basic meat source 2) Ordering the two books mentioned several times on this forum 3) Ordering a Tassan something or other grinder to get started. I know it says it will not do turkey bones, but I figure that is a trade off for not wanting to invest $500 plus into a grinder until I am sure I have the time and dedication to do it long term, as well as being sure it works for my crew before investing that much. 4)I do have an older chest freezer that still works, but will need to be upgraded if it pans out. 5) Plenty of fish oil on hand

6) Does any one know if “Nupro” will work for the daily vitamin/mineral source for the time being to balance everything out? While its a bit pricier, its probably cheaper than ending up with a bunch of separate ingredients if this does not work.

Please and thank you for ALL responses and suggestions!

Melissa

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

I’ve check out Vital Choice’s website and it appears that they have quality products, my only concern would be that there’s no vitamin e added to preserve their fish oils. Their capsules appear to just contain straight fish oil so even if they’re starting out with the highest quality fish oil I would be concerned with rancidity. High levels of vitamin e (antioxidant) prevent the delicate omega 3 fats from oxidizing.

[kimberley]

My husband bought Dinovite for our Jack Russell, for her itchiness. After a month of feeding her the dinovite, there was no change, she was still itchy. (She has never lost hair, chewed or licked hair off, just had a bad case of “scratch my butt”). I have since switched to plain old fish oil, I open a capsule, pour it on her food (Blue Buffalo) and so far, no issues (3months+). And as far as ingredients, you should look pretty closely to some of them, some are big animal livestock supplements, one of them is commonly used as a cat litter filler and there is at least one of them that can be toxic if used long term. Yes, I looked up the ingredients, and while most are good things for our pets, some are certainly questionable.

[Marvins mom]

I have to mention the best help i’ve had for my dog in the 8years that i’ve owned him. It’s – if I may mention a brand name – the Dinovites product out of Kentucky. All the years that he’s itched and scratched off all of his hair, having the itchy red, watery eyes for months on end – it’s the only thing that has helped him have some amount of relief. For years we’ve tried the extra fish/oils, grain free dog food, probiotics, benedryl, steroids, vet visits…..and NOTHING…i mean nothing helped him. Sadly he looked like a chemotherapy patient?!?!? Since taking the Dinovites this year, starting in May he was three months free of his irritations. Sadly come Aug. he burst into red inflamed skin and sad eyes, also lost wieght again. I thought – OH NO, not again! BUT IT ONLY LASTED FOR 6 WEEKS… vs the 5-6 months of misery!So, i bathed him every other day with a soothing bath shampoo and continued with the Dinovites and he is now been itch free again since the last 2 weeks! it is now Oct. 1st. I have to say that seasonal allergies are the worst to treat and this IS the only remedy i will continue to use year long for him to be happy in the later years of his life! He is now 8 — i only wish i had known about this product years ago and saved him the misery!!!!!!!! I am hoping that come next May it doesn’t start again and holds off til at least Aug. or doesn’t come at all….we’ll see! It’s worth the invest ment for us!!!!!!!!

[apriliamille]

mfulton7
look at chewy.com and petflow
i have gotten small bags to try from chewy.com they tend to have more of the smaller increments (atleast for the earthborn and the drtims) the dogs just get a lucky care package as i boost the shop cart to 50 bucks for the free ship. (yeah im like that) i tend to order from petflow the most though as they ship quicker to me. (they are in vegas and im in utah)
a couple questions: is grain free a mandatory requirement? (maybe its in an earlier posting i missed) reason im asking is due to drtims kinesis ALS comes to mind as it has ocean herring meal, catfish meal, menhaden fish oil and salmon meal in it) . (i have a small size on the way to test it) its 1.48 per pound and on the 2nd list from HDM. earthborn coastal 1.82 a pound. if your concerned about coat health and you just cant find that ideal dog food you like. you could always toss an egg into the kibble and some canned sardines in water (buck a can at walmart) every so often. our boxer and dobe pup get an egg 3 times a week tossed into their kibble and a can of the sardines once a week.

there are tons of good foods out there, hound dog mom’s list is the best of the stars system and the petfood companies that actually were willing to divulge information to her

[scottNY]

Patty – would you believe I tried that and the little devil wouldn’t go near it? He just barely likes the Grizzly, but I notice it does have a different smell, possibly because the Omega capsules I use aren’t intended to be opened. I may try alternating to see how he handles it. I would be much less expensive if I could give mine. Maybe now that fish oil isn’t so unusual to him, he will be a little more flexible.

[scottNY]

My puppy does not like to take pills, disguised or otherwise, so I started giving him Grizzly Salmon Oil – All Natural, which I get at a good price from amazon.com. He seems to be okay with the smell and taste and being that he has a sensitive digestive track, I don’t have the worry of him burping up fish oil. Has anyone used this product and what do you think of it?

Thanks!

[MaggieM]

Hello,

I have a question about using vitamins and green super food supplements. I just started feeding raw and I think I have the meals balanced between the raw meaty bones and the other half muscle meat, organs and some vegetables, eggs and dairy. I am hoping that this puts the calcium/phosphorus ratio is in a balanced range. I have been adding fish oil for the omega 3s and now I am a bit confused as to what else I should be adding. I know E is needed with the fish oil but I have been debating between just adding the E or just adding a simple multi-vitamin or one of these vitamin/mixes.

Berte’s Daily Blend
EarthOrigins
Dr. Harvey’s Multi-Vitamin
SpiruGreen Superfood

The Berte’s and the EarthOrigins seem to be more of a cross between a vitamin and green blend compared to the others. I have heard so many different opinions I am no longer sure what is really needed. Does any one have any thoughts?

Please help.
Thanks,
M

[rogerharris]

Hiii… I recommend you the Wellness Core. This food is the prefect balance of protein, quality meat sources, fat content, as well as important sources of fruits and vegetables and fish oils.
You get what you pay for when it comes to dog food. When purchasing this brand, one is paying for high quality food (meat content, veggies, fruits) without fillers or extreme levels of protein.

[Pitonos]

Hi!

This is from Mega:
Giant, adult > 45 kg: mega Regular
http://www.versele-laga.com/NUTRI/Nutrition/Pages/Products/index.jsp?ran=19552&pro=19660&fam=121&ani=7972&rac=7976#Productvoorstelling
Product presentation
Nutritional Balance Chicken Based mega Regular is a specially developed food for adult dogs with normal activity levels and weighing over 45 kg.
Rationing table
Animal weight Daily ration
45 kg 450 – 700 g
50 kg 490 – 750 g
55 kg 520 – 800 g
60 kg 550 – 810 g
65 kg 590 – 900 g
70 kg 620 – 950 g
75 kg 650 – 1.000 g
80 kg 680 – 1.050 g
85 kg 715 – 1.100 g
90 kg 750 – 1.150 g

Analytical constituents
Protein 28 %
Fat content 18 %
Crude fibre 2 %
Crude ash 6,50 %
Calcium 1 %
Phosphorus 0,70 %
Sodium 0,30 %
Taurine 1.000 mg/kg
Nutritional additives
Vitamin A 17.800 IU/kg
Vitamin D3 1.600 IU/kg
Vitamin E 500 mg/kg
Vitamin C 300 mg/kg
β-carotene 10 mg/kg
E1 (iron) 201 mg/kg
E2 (iodine) 3 mg/kg
E4 (copper) 8 mg/kg
E5 (manganese) 63 mg/kg
E6 (zinc) 120 mg/kg
E8 (selenium) 0,2 mg/kg

Composition
Chicken (25 %)
Wheat
Wheat flour
Rice
Animal fat
Beet pulp
Linseed
Dehydrated fish
Hydrolysed chicken protein
Salmon oil
Brewer´s yeast
Dried whole eggs
Minerals
Fructo-oligosaccharides
Lecithin
Marigold
Green lipped mussel
Sea algae
Grape seed

And this is Maxi:
Large, adult 25-45 kg: maxi Regular
http://www.versele-laga.com/NUTRI/Nutrition/Pages/Products/index.jsp?ran=19552&pro=19655&fam=121&ani=2339&rac=2360
Product presentation
Nutritional Balance Chicken Based maxi Regular is a specially developed food for adult dogs with normal activity levels and weighing more than 25 kg but less than 45 kg.

Rationing table
Animal weight Daily ration

25 – 30 kg 270 – 360 g
30 – 35 kg 320 – 400 g
35 – 40 kg 360 – 450 g
40 – 45 kg 400 – 550 g

Analytical constituents
Protein 24 %
Fat content 14 %
Crude fibre 2,50 %
Crude ash 6,50 %
Calcium 1 %
Phosphorus 0,70 %
Sodium 0,35 %
Taurine 1.000 mg/kg
Nutritional additives
Vitamin A 17.800 IU/kg
Vitamin D3 1.600 IU/kg
Vitamin E 500 mg/kg
Vitamin C 300 mg/kg
β-carotene 10 mg/kg
E1 (iron) 201 mg/kg
E2 (iodine) 3 mg/kg
E4 (copper) 8 mg/kg
E5 (manganese) 63 mg/kg
E6 (zinc) 120 mg/kg
E8 (selenium) 0,2 mg/kg

Composition
Chicken (20 %)
Wheat
Wheat flour
Rice
Animal fat
Beet pulp
Linseed
Dehydrated fish
Hydrolysed chicken protein
Salmon oil
Brewer´s yeast
Dried whole eggs
Minerals
Fructo-oligosaccharides
Lecithin
Marigold
Green lipped mussel
Sea algae
Grape seed

[GSDsForever]

yellowdaisy,

I think HK is an excellent company, with quality foods and high standards (including safety). The formulas are pretty gentle and I’ve never known dogs to have trouble with it, especially sensitive/touchy stomach dogs. I like the Zeal formula best (which many sensitive dogs do well on when they can’t on other foods), then the Embark. Zeal is HK’s highest protein and uses a very high quality source, though the fat is very, very low — which some dogs do best with and others need to add back.

The only negatives I encounter with HK are that some formulas are grain inclusive (when owners don’t want that), some dogs aren’t crazy about the soupy texture, and high cost . . . esp. grain free Zeal & Embark. I would like to see, at their higher price point, their base ingredients be organic (like Stella & Chewy’s) when it’s a known heavily pesticide contaminated ingredient or preference for less contaminated fruits/veggies/greens chosen when organic isn’t feasable/prohibitively expensive — kind of like how I shop at the grocery store. But they are still very clean, high quality foods and I would feed them + highly recommend the brand.

In Nutrisource/Pure Vita’s defense, I really don’t think that their food can be blamed for tumors. Something triggers cancer to start in the body and that can be many complex factors, usually involving toxins as insults to the body and the immune system + some genetics. From there, we do know from research that cancer feeds selectively off sugars/simple carbs and need an acidic environment to be active . . . but that’s after the cancer has taken hold. Certain breeds (and their mixes) currently have very high incidences of cancer, like Goldens or Bernese Mountain Dogs; or there is a breed specific cancer like hemangiosarcoma. Some stats show more than half of all dogs and cats now die of cancer.

Pure Vita does pretty clean sourcing, for example using more expensive wild caught fish exclusively (protecting against toxins like PCBs in farmed salmon) and imposes a good bit of safety testing and quality standards. Many dogs seem to do really well on the food, esp. those with allergies/sensitivities or needing a bland diet and limited ingredient diet.

At the same time, virtually all commercial pet foods have significant contamination with bacterial toxins (enterotoxins, endotoxins, cytotoxins, etc.), from the meat, processing and handling, sanitation issues, storage, heat or lack of heat processing, moisture spoilage (like aflatoxins, etc in grains), lack of freshness, rancidity of fats/oils, etc. (You can read more about this in texts like UC Davis Vet School’s/DVM Strombeck’s Home Prepared Dog & Cat Diets, chapter 3 on commercial pet foods/food safety & preparation.)

Nevertheless, I do think homemade diets (balanced) using a wide variety of fresh foods in rotation, cleanly sourced (wild fish, grass fed & free range, organic), are best. So I think you are on the right track. Good luck!

[Lara]

I have a chocolate Lab that has had numerous issues. I rescued her off of Craigslist in Oct. The person I got Karma from had her on Rachel Ray Noutrish. I switched her to Blue Buffalo Freedom for puppies (grain free) It all started in December with a big ear infection to both ears and small, red bumps on her abdomen last December. Diagnosis: chicken allergy. Switched to Natural Balance Potato and Fish with tuna and salt-free peas which she did fine on…for awhile. I noticed increased itchiness..she scratched and bit everywhere…no fleas. She also developed a UTI with struvite crystals so I switched to NB Potato and Rabbit. My vet suggested Hill’s Prescription for the crystals and UTI which I refused. The vet also states to stop giving her tuna and peas as the peas may have contributed to the pH problem. My baby has had 2 back to back UTI’s one with the crystals and one without. During the 2nd UTI I switched to Nutrisca Lamb and Chickpea (grain and potato free) and canned Lamb from Wellness as a topper (only in a.m.) She seems to be doing better although she still itches and bites her paws but it appears to go in spurts….. I’m wondering if it is enviromental allergies and not food. She has some eye goobers but I started using Ark Naturals Eyes So Bright and that has helped tremendously. She also was very flaking but that has almost gone away since starting her on Nutrisca. She is on Claritin/Benadryl/probiotic/salmon oil/liquid glucosamine and sometimes coconut oil. She is also on a cranberry extract for a urine pH of 9.
I have started to notice she is losing fur on the tips of her ears (just started last week). She has no ear infection that I can see. I had been cleaning 3x per week because they began to smell…now I am down to 1x per week
I use Richard’s Organics Incredible Skin Spray for the itchy areas and any hotspots. I also at times will rub in coconut oil
She has little red bumps on her belly which come and go….literally they are there in the morning and sometimes almost gone by night (could be the benadryl/claritin combo)
I have tried digestive enzymes twice (different brands) and she has vomited with both…not sure she can tolerate them…I’ve started slowly both times
I have to bring her back in for a re-check of her urine to see if the pH is down
Every dog food she has been on she has liked….she is not a picky eater (she even eats pills as if they were a treat)
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated and sorry it is long

[Codex]

I’m worried about people saying that fish oil supplements can cause vitamin A surplus over time.

It made Codex’s coat turned shinier and absolutely no dry skin–fingers crossed it’ll stay like that.

I’m wondering if the fish oil is not a long term solution to keeping her skin and coat silky. I suspect it might be masking food allergy symptoms(surf and turf makes her scratch)?

Any suggestions of a supplement I can use instead of fish oil?

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi All,

I have been lurking on DFA for a few months now. Originally I was trying to find the best dry food for my dog, then I started getting into dehydrated and freeze dried. Now I’m looking at frozen raw. For the past two months I have been doing 2/3 premium 5 star kibble with 1/3 frozen raw (complete formulas from Primal or Stella & Chewy’s). I didn’t know if my dog would go for it so that’s why I started this way. Now I want to move to full raw. I will admit to being lazy when it comes to this process. The easiest thing for me to get hold of right now is Primal grinds and complete formulas (Primal and S&C). A lady in the next town owner has become a retailer and sells it out of her house and adds very little markup.

I have a 7.5 year old Great Dane named Max that I got from a rescue. He is 155 pounds, is currently eating 1800-1900 calories per day, and is in perfect condition. I have fed him 3 meals per day since I got him because I could and it works for him. I want to do Primal grinds with additions for two of his meals and a complete formula for his third meal. I am most concerned with balancing his two meals of Primal grinds. From reading I have gathered that these grinds can be high in bone content as well as fat so it is important to add extra muscle meat (heart, boneless meats) and protein (eggs, cottage cheese, canned salmon, canned oysters, tripe?). I also plan on adding yogurt or kefir, sprouted seeds, fish oil, vitamin E, HDM’s superfood blend and veggie/fruit/herb puree, and 3 cloves of garlic 3x/week.

I have a few questions/ things I wanted to double check. He would need about 3200mg combined EPA/DHA, 300iu vitamin E, 200iu vitamin D/lb of food, 3 tsp of superfood blend daily, right? I couldn’t find what the appropriate amount of vitamin A was? If I use cod liver oil for the vitamin D, will that provide sufficient vitamin A? Also, would it be good to use a glandular supplement too? Lastly, assuming I have covered everything, a multivitamin/mineral isn’t needed correct?

Thank you in advance for your help. And special thanks to Hound Dog Mom for posting menus and such great, detailed information.

[lizbethc41]

Hi,
My dog will be 10 in Nov. He had a malignant fibrosarcoma removed in ’09. Since then he’s had issues with intermittent diarrhea.
His food history:
He has always been an extremely picky eater, going ‘on strike’ often
Fed Iams until he was 3.5 (My first dog & I didn’t know any better, mea culpa)
As a blood cancer survivor myself, I switched our household to an organic one.
Switched to Castor & Pollux Organix dry that I added a small amount of organic chicken, turkey or beef w/occasional wild caught salmon or duck to entice him to eat it. He did great on this until his health issue arose.
After his surgery I started adding pumpkin & probiotics (from Only Natural Pet) to his meals, but he still would get colitis type diarrhea every now & then. So I decided to try cooked homemade.
I had a vet nutritionist diet done up for him (Dr Susan Wynn). I use only organic foods, either turkey, chicken or beef w/either oatmeal, quinoa or sweet potato & then some kind of veggie, usually carrots, cauliflower or green beans. The individual supplements worry me because of the fish oil which he’s never done well on so I use flaxseed oil plus bone meal, choline, canola oil, lite salt & Centrum.
I decided to keep a commercial organic canned food to make sure his nutritional needs were met & for the times where I may not have a homemade meal available. I started w/ByNature Organics canned turkey until I realized it has carrageenan (sp?). I switched to Party Animal grain free organic. I’ve tried the 2 chickens & the turkey.
Problem is he still doesn’t like commercial dog food, sometimes he’ll eat it, sometimes not & he still has some soft poos. So started adding Animal Essentials digestive enzyme/probiotics & Metamucil (on the vet’s advice) I had a second diet done up for him from Balance It, but I haven’t used it yet because it seems like it has a LOT of carbs compared to his other vet diet (2.5 cups of quinoa to 6 oz of turkey) & 6 5/8 tsp of Metamucil! That’s over 2 TBS! I had been gradually increasing the Metamucil again on the vet’s advice as she said there would be Metamucil in the Balance It diet, but 2 tsps bound him up for over a day, so there’s no way I’m giving him over 2 TBS (which is more than the max for a human adult). He’s not a big water drinker, another concern for the Metamucil.
I’m sorry this is such a long post, but I really am trying to find the right diet for my fur baby. I’m thinking of cooking his Dr Wynn diet w/out the individual supplements, adding ONP’s senior multi-vitamin, the Animal Essentials & mixing it in w/the Party Animal, keeping the proteins the same (turkey w/turkey, beef w/beef etc).
Any thoughts, opinions & advice would be appreciated!
Btw, he’s a German Shepherd mix, 48 lbs, body score of 5/9 I don’t use chemical pesticides on him, just Heartgard monthly.

[bodzio]

Thank you Patty for the info. I think I am going to move towards kibble for initial 3-4 weeks with blend of wet/raw food. I am in NJ and found on this site info for Hare Today raw food distributor.
Was going to use their whole carcas grinds and prepare with veggies/eggs/fruit mixes.
When it comes to additives what would you recommend?

Probiotics – greek yogurt/goat milk?
Omegas – salomon or other fish oil?
Coconut oil – or garlic oil – for anti-backerial protection, some people use them?
Vitamin E and D? – I was going to use spinach, celery, carrots, pumpkin for raw meat mix – do I still need those?
What super foods would you recommend?

Thanks again.

[treizi]

So I’m coming here in hopes for some suggestions to perhaps adding in some supplements for my pup that isn’t doing well. Koda is a 9yr old Papillon that suddenly started showing signs of a very bloated, tight, painful tummy the other day. He also had runny yellow/orange stools. We went to the vet who cleared him of any signs of blockage, but he’s also outruled any extra gas, inflammation and isn’t quite suspecting pancreatitis because he’s not vomiting though blood tests weren’t done this time. He’s been prescribed a bland diet, add in some probiotics and wait for improvement. He’s slowly improving but I’m suspecting he might be having some digestive trouble so I’m considering making some additions to his diet. Now several months ago he went in to the vet (I was living elsewhere so it wasn’t my regular one) because he was once again in pain, but this time hunching over as if he was in a bunch of discomfort and quite lethargic. Needless to say, I’m a bit sick of the very large vet bills no answers and being sent home to boil some chicken and rice and wait a week or two.

He’s also had a slipped disc in his back which required surgery and that’s been suspected to be a possible cause of this pain currently, though no bulging or issues appeared on the xray confirming this. I’ll also mention that a few months ago, Koda would somewhat randomly get extremely loud belly “gurgles”. We’re talking loud enough to hear from another room, coming out of a 8lb dog. It’s only happened 2-3 times and doesn’t accompany any signs of lethargy or pain. He was completely normal at these times.

I’ve seen a lot of recommendations for Swanson’s Dr. Langer and Probiotic Miracle, as well as a mention of Mercola, though I’m not sure which people are using? I’d also like to add in some type of joint supplement, to assist with his previous back issues. I should mention that I’m currently feeding Lotus grain free duck (switched after the vet trip from several months ago – previously on Natural Balance Sweet Potato & fish..suspected originally that this was an issue because it was a new bag, now I’m not so sure). Also, when he’s up and being his normal self, he’s a very healthy and happy little dog that isn’t showing any signs of age.

Sorry for the novel – I’m somewhat hoping that maybe someone else has gone through a similar situation as well!

[theBCnut]

So that means that they left down a bowl of Pedigree 24/7, bottom of the barrel dog food. I’m biting my tonque as I write this and banging my head on a wall too. Buy a small bag of Pedigree, there I said it, enough to feed it for a couple weeks. Buy a bag of NutriSource and slowly transition her to it. I would suggest grain free and chicken free. When you are getting near the end of that bag, if her stools are ok, then pick up a bag of a 5 star brand, something like Natures Variety Instinct should be good, others will chime in with kibbles that are small enough for a small dog. If her smell has improved, stay clear of chicken and grains forever. She needs enough fish(or whatever) oil to get 100mg combined EPA and DHA per day. You can give her more every few days if it is easier to dose that way. She also needs 1/2 teaspoon of organic virgin coconut oil every day. If she has trouble transitioning foods put a teaspoon of canned pure pumpkin on each meal. You can freeze the extra into ice cubes so it doesn’t go bad before you use it. You can also give her a little dab of plain yogurt or kefir to get some probiotics into her gut.

Good luck and thank you for giving this old gal a chance.

[theBCnut]

First, what are you currently feeding? We may recommend different foods based on that.

Second, try adding a good human grade fish, salmon, or krill oil and organic virgin coconut oil to her food.

Finally, there is a shampoo and spray to help keep the dander down. I can’t remember the name, but Petsmart and/or Petco should have it, and everyone in the store should know what your talking about if you ask.

[pacer1978]

Patty: Then should I discontinue with the Langer’s FoS probiotic? I’ve been giving it to my dogs every 2-3 days. They weren’t having any digestive issues before..but, I started giving them supplements based off what I’m reading here. The enzymes make sense when feeding kibble and I started both over the last month.

I’m also not sure if this is coincidence with the supplements I’ve been giving over the last month, but wanted to run it by everyone on the forum that may be reading. Mia started to get a bit of diarrhea last night. I also noticed what appeared to be a little bit of blood in her stool this morning. I’m not as worried now as I was this morning after googling some causes. Some are as minor as a change in diet, which I just switched them from Solid Gold MMillenium to Earthborn Holistic. Perhaps I switched too fast because it stated that could be one of the causes. My other two seem fine, however. I know blood in stool could be a minor or serious issue, so I will keep an eye on her and see. But, now I’m concerned with reading that the Langer’s FOS may not be a good brand? Everything they get daily is below. Since this just started happening recently, the only thing that has changed in the last few days (since Sunday/Monday) is the food.

Swanson’s digestive enzymes
Coconut Oil
Dasuquin (joint/hip)
Fish oil (Pure Alaska Omega™ Salmon Oil) sold at Costco
Langer’s 15-strain FOS probiotic

[terriers4life]

OK. I’ve lurked on this forum for quite a while. I now feel the need to speak up. Dinovite for dogs, which is a product I have used for many, many years for many, many dogs is a high quality whole food supplement. Read the ingredients folks. Good source of vitamins, omega fatty acids, probiotics, enzymes. There’s nothing in it that will cause a dog to have blood in their urine or to get sick, unless there’s something the dog is allergic to. And how the heck would you (or they-Dinovite) know this? It’s sort of like saying “Don’t feed organic, natural peanut butter to your kid, because mine had an allergic reaction to it.”

Seriously, “check with your vet”? Yeah, the one who advises you to buy his dog food (which is garbage, even according to this website) and who would rather you give your dog steroids for life? Give me a break. When was the last time your vet gave you advice about feeding your dog…that was good for him? Vets are not trained in nutrition…well, barely. How long does your dog have to be on steroids for you to realize they are destroying his internal organs? And if steroids or allergy shots were the answer, then WHY DOES THE DOG STILL ITCH or HAVE BALD PATCHES???

Find a 5 star rated food (a Dinovite rep actually pointed me to this site to help me choose a better dog food) and add Dinovite. Get your dog off the darn steroids.

Even the absolute best commercial dog food is heat processed. So enzymes, probiotics and so many vitamins are destroyed. So your dog is walking around with these deficiencies. And you can’t fix that with steroids, creams, sprays, ear cleaners, antibiotics. Use common sense people.

I was a huge skeptic. But in 2009, I had 4 dogs who had some pretty messed up skin and ears. I was feeding a good food (rated 5 stars here) and still so much $$$$ at the vet (and listen folks, not once did a vet offer any money back for crap that didn’t work. In fact, I just kept coming back and spending more. Try this…no, try this…maybe try this…and spending so much money.) So I got enough Dinovite for my worst case. And I used it for a few months. It took about 3 or 4 months but slowly, I began to see a difference. It was really apparent as my other dogs were still just awful.

After a few months, I took my dog in the car, and no stinky smell…no shedding. No bald patches. No butt scooting.

The rest of my dogs have been on this now since then too. I left the country for 4 weeks and had a friend stay at my house. She never added it to my dog’s food. I came home to one of my dogs kinda stinky and the shedding was back. Never again. My dogs won’t go without. Ever. Period.

I have even used this on every foster dog I have had come through my house. And they have all benefitted from it. I send some with each dog when they leave here. I’ve seen some pretty bad skin problems and yeast problems get under control using Dinovite (and I use the fish oil or the other omega supplement too).

And, I actually tried one of their newer products (a different vitamin in a tube). It was supposed to be the same as the one in the box but in a thick like paste. My dogs didn’t really like it much so I went back to the powder. And I sent back a bunch of the tubes. Two were actually empty and 4 were unopened. I got my money back no problem. With a smile.

[labber]

Kefir is dairy by the way, not so bueno for dogs and not very high in cultures to make a difference.

My recommendation would be to feed raw whenever possible, then you don’t really need supplemental enzymes as much, although I’ve heard good things about enzyme supplementation.

We use Probiotic Miracle which is great and are also a good price for how long the canister lasts. We sprinkle a bit in her meals every day and we notice a big difference when we lapse for too long.

Been using Nordic Naturals for fish oil Omega-3. I don’t believe in giving wild salmon oil since it could have contaminants. Pure is the answer!

[SandyandMila]

My Mila (1 1/2 today) isn’t picky at all and I’ve had her on a lot of variety. Kibble [Canidae, Earthborn, Orijen, Acana, Brothers, Wellness, Fromm, Annamaet, (Chicken Soup, TOTW when I’ve had to)] and canned (Merrick, TOTW, Fromm, Canidae, Dave’s GF, Tripett, Wellness, ATG). Freeze dried and Dehyrated: Stella and Chewy’s, Primal, THK, Grandma Lucy. Premade raw: NV, Primal, Bravo. Raw organ/muscle meat, green tripe. And also RMBs:chicken back, turkey necks, pork necks. The only one I wouldn’t recommend is the Canidae Single Grain Protein Plus, although a 5 star food, because of the multiple protein sources and not grain free. (It was suggested at a pet store before I got Mila) You have received great advice above, stick to a single protein source and try to go grain free. Is it just when the dog has chicken protein that you see these issues? Maybe Sadie has a chicken food allergy? Try other protein sources beef, lamb, turkey, fish and also add a little canned pumpkin and plain yogurt (digestive enzyme and probiotics). And once you find a few that work rotate them, being on one type of food for too long can make it easier to form food allergies. Mila does have sensitive skin especially during spring-summer allergy season, I guess that might be a “pit issue”, so adding omega 3s and coconut oil to her food are a big help, and also bathing often is key. I’m using a medicated antifungal antiseptic shampoo right now because her skin was negatively effected after getting her spayed and vaccinated during allergy season, which is a big no-no. (The main reason I’ve switched to raw) But also like Earthbath or any good teatree oil shampoo. Try not to use a oatmeal based shampoo especially if Sadie’s skin has open sores, red, and irritated.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by SandyandMila.

[scottNY]

Thanks, HDM and Patty. I think I will use the same Omega 3s for my puppy I use for myself, the Nature Made Fish Oil Omega-3s. I can get 300 of them from amazon.com for around $12 with my monthly subscribe & save shipment. For the record, I researched and then chose that one because it is GMP [Good Marketing Practices] approved, meets USP purity standards and is sold at a very reasonable cost. The only other thing I can say is that it has worked well for my health – my cholesterol numbers improved greatly after a few months of regular use. I hope my puppy will benefit, too. Thanks again!

[Hound Dog Mom]

I agree with Patty on human omega 3 supplements versus pet omega 3 supplements. I just wanted to point out that omega 3 supplements are not something you want to look for a bargain on. Even most human fish oils have been found to be rancid by the time they’re sold. If you splurge on any of your supplements let it be omega 3’s. I’d recommend Carlson brand or Nordic Naturals (I use Carlson).

[theBCnut]

You’re welcome!

1) Human fish, salmon, krill oil is just fine and more likely to not be rancid. And likely to be cheaper than one labeled for dogs.
2) The recommendation for the best coconut oil is that it be organic virgin coconut oil. But your edible coconut oil would be fine to use until it is gone, even if it isn’t organic virgin.
3-4) You’re already ordering from Swanson’s. Type “green super food” into the search and order a couple different ones. One seaweed/algae and one grass. They have some combo products that sound good, but they have green tea in them which is a no no, unless you know it is decaf, which they usually don’t say. Swanson’s also has omega 3 oils and coconut oil and digestive enzymes, woohoo!
5) Giving Dr Langers every other day or every 3 days is great. During times of stress you can jack up the dose. You can’t OD probiotics.

[theBCnut]

To add to an already complete and balanced food:

1) Fish, salmon, or krill oil(an animal derived source of omega 3s)
2) Coconut oil(if you have any coat, bacterial, or fungal issues or need extra fat in the diet)
3) Some green super food(rotate spirulina, kelp, wheatgrass, barleygrass, alfalfa)
4) Digestive enzymes with every kibble meal
5) A source of probiotics a few times a week.

[puppylove]

If you’re feeding your dog a processed meat diet then enzymes are CRITICAL.

Prebiotics are not the same as PRObiotics. PREbiotics are simply the material that the bacteria feed on to grow. Careful giving your dog a prebiotic without probiotics or you could feed pathogenic bacteria (if there is a yeast or bacterial problem in the gut)

Probiotics, I am an advocate. Find one made for dogs, not humans, since humans and dogs have different systems. I like Nusentia, but there are some other suggestions on this forum that might be good too if they are made for dogs.

Fish oil? I don NOT DO WILD fish oils, like salmon, because of contaminants. They are more expensive, but get the purified fish oil from small species fish. Great source of beneficial Omega-3 without PCBs or toxins. Again, I like Nusentia’s fish oil, but I’m sure there are others that compare. In this case, you could get a human fish oil supplement since fish oil is fish oil. period.

[Melissaandcrew]

Hi there. I have quite a few seniors and none of them get senior food on a regular basis. the one exception isOrijen as its a lower fat level and I can feed it solo if I wish. Other than that, they get a solid quality all life stage food. My crew gets probiotics on occasion and fish oil added, but nothing else(other than various toppers) I personally think the senior formulas as Marie, sandy and Patty said are too low in protein for older dogs. I stick with approx. 30-33 percent in the kibble

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would stick with straight fish oil over a fish/borage blend. Borage oil is predominantly gamma linolenic acid – an omega 6 – which you shouldn’t need to add more of. I also, personally, steer clear of fish oils sold for pets. I have used fish/flax/borage blends in the past in conjunction with some other omega 3 dha/epa source but that was generally for the flax benefit on poultry heavy days.

[SandyandMila]

Ok, thanks! You don’t find it necessary for me to alternate another type if fish oil (like the one in the link)?

[SandyandMila]

Yes, I love using coconut oil with her and also see the best improvement especially with her allergies, and use it topically as well. Should I just use that instead of getting another fish oil? I can use both sardine and coconut oils together?

[SandyandMila]

Has anyone used this product Ark Naturals Royal Coat Express http://www.arknaturals.com/royal-coat-express. The bottle of krill oil is almost gone and haven’t really received the benefit like I thought it would, so I was thinking if changing it up. It consists is 100% wild fish oil and borage oil with no other inactive ingredients. I also will be alternating it with the NL sardine oil I already give and also sardines occasionally. Thanks

[theBCnut]

Skip the senior food. A lot of them have reduced amounts of protein and that is the opposite of what a senior needs. Keep her on a good quality food with good quality proteins in it and you might want to add some fish oil, as well as the joint supplement. Don’t bother with a food that advertises that it has a joint supplement in it, they don’t actually have a therapeutic dose, so it would do little good. There are a few people here with senior dogs that will chime in with what else you can do to help your old gal.

[theBCnut]

I don’t like that the only organ is liver, heart doesn’t count, it is muscle. And I don’t like that there is no fish, fish oil, something, that is a good source of omega 3s. That wouldn’t bother me in the least if he was telling you to add a source of omega 3s, but he is telling you to add nothing. There are other things that I would add to this too, but those were the first 2 deal breakers for me.

[theBCnut]

Probiotics and fish oil won’t interfere with each other. Rotating your probiotics is a really good idea, you can rotate as often as every dose or after every bottle or anywhere in between, the important thing is to store them in a cool dry location.

[Colorado huntress]

Oh, forgot to ask….should I give probiotics on the same day I give fish oils, or does it matter? For example, if I give probiotics on Mon, Wed, Fri, should I give fish oils on Tues, Thurs, Sat? And, I bought the Dr Langer’s & the soil- based organisms – should I use one (3x/week), for a week, then rotate to the other probiotic?

[Colorado huntress]

Thanks! Placed my order for fish oils today 🙂

[theBCnut]

I give fish oil every day that I’m not giving fish or eggs, but I’ve heard that giving a double dose every other day is fine too.

[Colorado huntress]

Guess I have to place another order, lol…ok, how often do I give them the fish oil?

[theBCnut]

It depends on the fish oil. Look at the EPA and DHA levels of the one you get(Carlsons is on Swansons site). You want 100mg of EPA and DHA combined per 10 lbs of body weight.

[Colorado huntress]

Thanks Patty & HDM 🙂 where do I find the Carlson fish oil capsules? Will my little 13 lb guy be able to take a capsule? Don’t know dosages…..45lbs & 13 lbs. Yeah, as much as I would love to give them some of our trout, even if I cook it, I’ll probably be a little nervous…..how often do you give the fish oil? I also have cage free eggs & can feed them raw (already have actually), but don’t know how often. You guys should write a book….seriously!