[Susan]

Hi, I think it’s true cause WHY would they put probiotics in their kibbles if they didn’t work & they are also guaranteeing survivability……
My boy was diagnosed with the Helicobacter 2nd December 2014, in September/October, I introduced the Wellness Simple kibble, I didn’t know Patch had the Helicobacter (Stomach Bacteria) I suspected that he did have the Helicobacter but he needed a Endoscope + Biopsies done to confirm, the Wellness Kibbles have probiotics in all their kibbles, after he was on the Wellness Simple for around 2 months Patch got worse with his Helicobacter & we finally did the Endoscope December to see what was wrong, he was doing OK before I tried the Wellness Simple, he’d have maybe 1 off day in 2 weeks… he was playing & being his naughty self, that’s how I know when he isn’t sick, he’s full of energy & a bit naughty lol, then about 3-4 weeks on the Wellness Simple, he started eating & eating grass, bad acid reflux coming up into his throat, vomiting yellow acid, & whinging & whinging, his vet diet kibble before the Wellness Simple doesn’t have Probiotics, it just has prebiotics FOS, he stayed the same while on the Vet diet kibble without the probiotics….
I think that the Probiotics in the Wellness Simple made his Helicobacter worse as I’m starting to do research on the Helicobacter & it says Lactobacillus Acidophilus should be avoided as it can make the Helicobacter multiply in the stomach, so these kibbles with probiotics must be live & working probiotics in their kibble…as Patches stomach bacteria got worse & vet asked what was I feeding for him to have gotten so sick, he said to stop any kibbles that have probiotics in them, there probably good for dogs with a healthy stomach but for dogs that already have bad stomach or bowel bacteria maybe not so good, vet has told me to take him off all probiotics he said prebiotics are better….I’ll see how he does now without all the kibble probiotics & powder probiotics…I’m pretty sure when I rescued him, he wasn’t ill with the Helicobacter just has his Colitis, I think me or his other vet putting him on the dog powder probiotics & feeding him kibbles with the probiotics in them did make the Bacteria in his stomach multiply & worse not better like they should…..so they must be live probiotics & in some of these kibbles…maybe probiotics can go off & become bad I don’t know….So after his antibiotic treatment, I’m going to try a low fat Greek yogurt that has the good bacterias that are on my list of good bacterias that are suppose to decrease the Helicobacter & not have a party with it & multiply..

[Susan]

Hi Cole, last November my poor boy had bad episodes of swallowing & swallowing at night & sometimes waking up at 3am, in the end he had a real sore throat from the acid burning his throat & I took him to the vet & he was put on Pepcid (Famotidine) tablets 10mg 30mins before eating dinner, In Australia we can get Zantac (Ranitidine) over the counter but Pepcid(Famotidine) we need a script, they are the same type of drug a H2Blocker, so now I just use 1/3 of a Zantac tablet, I found it works better for Patch, it went away but as soon as I stopped the Zantac at 6am & 6pm 1 hour before food, it came back 2 weeks ago I have changed his kibble to a lower fat 7.5% fat & so far he hasn’t had anymore acid reflux, also I feed 4-5 smaller meals thru the day, so his stomach isn’t empty long enough for the acid to start brewing, this is very common in dogs, like it is in humans…. Google “Acid Refux in Dogs” & when Gunner was swallowing something, that was acid, when patch does that, I make him spit it out as its better out then in, when he eats grass it brings it up…. also 1 teaspoon of Mylanta helps too..

[Cole B]

So glad to hear other people have heard of this! I have a two year old lab/border collie cross named Gunner. His first gulping and licking attack happened a month ago. The vet blamed kennel cough and put him on Robitussin for a week. His first attack started right before bed one night and then happened on and off all night. Unlike a lot of other dogs in this post the first time it continued into the day time for half the day. I got a video of it but my vet wouldn’t even let me bring him in case it was kennel cough. His attack finally stopped and hasn’t happened again til tonight. I know it wasn’t kennel cough, I’ve worked in dog kennels for my entire adult life and I know kennel cough as well as my own name. Since the first attack stopped and went away for the last month I tried not to worry about it.
But now tonight he’s been gulping, swallowing, licking, occasionally coughing. He also seems to be throwing up liquid into his mouth and then swallowing it again. After reading through this post I tried a combo of taking off his collar, feeding him 1/2 a cup of kibble, and cuddling/petting to calm him down. His attack stopped almost immediately after I did those three things. Now he’s sleeping peacefully. I also fed him on a box so it was raised since I know acid reflux in people can be worse if they don’t sit up to eat. I’m relieved that it stopped! Its so hard watching them go through that. He was so upset.

Other background for Gunner:
He eats 1 3/4 cups Diamond brand lamb and rice twice a day
He is allergic to grass, which is a nightmare in itself! Certain times a year he has no fur on his legs from allergies.
He occassionally gets bacterial infections on his skin which my vet says is caused by a lowered immune system from his body’s constant fight against allergies.

He hadn’t had anything to eat other than kibble before this attack. He had been fed at 7:00pm and woke me up at 4:00am with the gulping. Not sure how long he had been doing it, I’m a deep sleeper. He’s always done really well on his lamb and rice diet.

I’m just so glad for this post since he instantly got better after trying a few suggestions from this posting. Thanks everyone for your advice!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Cole B.

[Kimi_forever]

crazy4cats, actually bestbullysticks recommends putting them in the freezer or refrigerator, they do not recommend it for killing bacteria but instead to keep them fresh as they are a natural treat, they also say you do not need to thaw them when you take them out….but obviously for long term strorage putting them in the freezer is best…

deborah: i understand wanting to control the process under which your dogs food comes from, but do you honestly think it’s in any way practical to raise your own free range grass fed cattle and produce your own bully sticks? that sounds almost insane to me????? but on a serious note i am totally curious about susan thixton’s rumblings on champion pet food, that is if she decided to make that information public and not try to get a profit from it by making it private and selling it to people willing to pay for her opinion…

[Kimi_forever]

I just saw this topic and thought i’d ask a few questions to see if anyone had any input on my treat selection because i feel comfortable with the main diet i am providing just not sure if i am doing the right thing treat wise.

I feed my dog biscuit treats, i try to buy them from quality brands and they are not cheap. but is it bad to feed dogs biscuit type treats? i’ve tried fromm gf biscuits, merrick kitchen bites, brothers complete gf, honest kitchen nuzzles, nutrisource gf, sojo’s gf, wellness gf, and nature’s variety instinct…They are not cheap but are much more affordable then the Orijen freeze dried treats i got for free from chewy.com with my last bag of orijen. I am just wondering if these biscuits are bad treats to give my dog along with her orijen kibble. i give about 4-5 biscuits a day, i know they dont have much meat in them but she loves them so much i continue to buy them for her. would i be better off buying more expensive freeze dried treats like orijen offers in the long run or is it okay to give a premium biscuit like the ones mentioned as a small treat every day? I only ask because my dog is an akita and 85lbs at only 10 months old and even with cheaper freeze dried treats like sojo’s and grandma lucy’s makes it would still be extremely more expensive to buy them, as sojo’s and grandma lucy’s pork freeze dried on chewy.com cost like 3x as much as high end biscuits for equal weight. i just want to know if i’m feeding my dog improperly by trying to save a little cash on her treats….

On another topic, i see many people mentioning giving their dogs bully sticks, and i give them to my dog when i can because they tend to be very expensive, but she loves them so i try to keep some around. I just was curious if anyone used or knew if my source of bullysticks was a quality source. I am currently getting them from bestbullysticks.com , they have nice thick bully sticks for lower price then i’ve seen anywhere: you can get a standard size one for 1.39 (cheaper in bulk) or i just got some jumbo ones (which are huge btw) for 2.19 per stick (cheaper in bulk as well). My question is if these are quality bully sticks and a quality company to trust for my pet, if anyone knows of them or has used them in the past. They say they are made from free range grass fed beef, however the beef comes from brazil unless you buy the made in usa ones for more expensive, and one of my concerns is the origin of the beef used. I have bought the made in usa ones from them in the past but they are much thinner then the brazilian ones when you compare them from what is supposed to be the same size, and much less filled and they are also more expensive. So you pay more for much less when you get the american ones, and since my dog is a large breed and will likely be 95lbs when she is done growing i can’t have thin bully sticks i need thick ones and i need them at a decent price. Does anyone know if bully sticks from brazil should not be trusted? Or where you can get USA made ones that are thick and not priced 3 dollars+ a stick? Any feed back on that site or tips on quality thick bullies for reasonable prices would be very much appreciated…

[Naturella]

Sooo, I help a couple of friends shop for dog food and I was with a friend of mine and I advised her to get 3 bags of Earthborn Holistic – Primitive Natural, Great Plains Feast, and Puppy Vantage, and then we went to my fave pet boutique store… I am SO WEAK!!! LoL! They had a sale on Acana and Orijen (the tiny 340-gram bags) for $1.99 instead of the usual $3.99. So I grabbed one of each! I couldn’t help it… argh… However… They are amazing foods, the Orijen one has like 15 meats as the first 15 ingredients… I mean, woah! lol. I can’t wait for Bru to try them! 🙂 Acana Pacifica and Orijen Adult is what I snatched. 🙂 They had Acana Grasslands on sale too, but for $2.99, so I wanted it, but passed on it… Maybe it will be $1.99 if it doesn’t sell in a few days… 😀

But really though, I have got to control myself some around samples… 50%-off or not… lol. I must have about 8lbs of them that need to go through Bruno together with the rest of his foods at some point, soon preferably, and the guy eats like a little over 1/2 cup nowadays, so this will be interesting, lol.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Naturella.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Naturella.

[JoKarol D]

It seems this may be common in Australian Cattle Dogs. I have a female 2-1/2 years old. We’ve had her since she was 8 weeks old. About a year ago she started these bouts of licking. She liked to eat hair and things like that so initially I thought she had hair stuck in her throat. But as she is getting older the bouts are getting more serious. She had another attack last night. My son was up with her all night. She’s frantic during the attacks and runs around the house trying to eat anything in sight. We do let her outside as she eats grass and that either makes the attack subside or makes her throw up. If it subsides she comes back in and is able to sleep for a couple of hours and then will have another attack. This will go on all night until about 6 am. Then the attacks will completely stop until the next night about 9 pm. They usually last for a couple of nights then go away for a while. She hadn’t had an episode in a while and last night I gave her some caramel popcorn… a few pieces as a treat. I guess that was bad as her attack started about an hour after I gave her the treat. Tonight it started again but she is sleeping peacefully under my bed right now.

Why do these things always start at night? And disappear during the day? Its so sad because she is frantic and wants help during her attacks. She is breathing heavy and licking and gulping and running all over the place. When I get her to lay down and try to calm her down, her stomach is gurgling and making all kinds of noises so I know it must be very uncomfortable. From these forums it seems pretty common and I can’t believe more vets have not heard of it. I was going to try to treat her naturally before I got a vet involved. I recently changed her food to grain free food and she loves it. But she eats it so fast (like others here have described).

Just knowing it is pretty common is very comforting. Thank you all for posting so much helpful information. I hope all of you find the right system that will work for your dog. I think every dog probably will need something different as every human’s body is different. Please keep updating with what is going on with your dog…. the good bad and ugly. Together maybe we can help our babies lead pain free stress free lives!

[Jamie H]

Greetings giant breed owners,

My current Dane is 10.5 years old and looks and acts like he’ll be around for a few more. He’s happy and and alert and active for his age. My buddy eats “Paleo” right along with me. Mostly Protein, (often red Pacific wild salmon–we live in Alaska) mixed with quality rice or root vegetables drizzled in olive oil and baked, carrots and celery (his fav) for snacks. He was boarded for a while when I couldn’t keep him and his caregiver gave him about 1/4 of fish oil in his dry food and and plenty of rawhide to keep him busy. When I got him back he was panting a lot and I assumed a heaet condition. X-ray showed a slightly enlarged heart. I did some research and discovered dry food is lacking in Taurine, L-Carnitine and Acytel L-Carnitine, among other critical amino acids and nutritional components. I started supplementing with the three amino acids, and adding squirts of liquid B-complex. His panting decreased and his eyes became focused and alert and his energy level increased. I abandoned my conventions on the focus of food “brands” and the idea of consistency. How boring. What do animals in the wild eat for dinner? Who cares? Its what ever gets them to the next meal! Variety and fluctuation is normal in the wild, and in fact stimulating for an animal. I mix table scraps with dry food. Dinner always taste different, what a pleasure for an animal whose sense of is also a form of communication! some days he doesnt get the dry food at all. Just after I started the supplemts I decided to feed him raw. I bought grass fed buffalo and he got 1/4 to 1/3 pound, give or take, twice a day. I’d recomend not using any grain fed meat for the reason it is sometimes 10x higher in the inflammatory Omega-6’s which is why we humans should avoid grain fed beef like the plague as well. Grass fed free range livestock has the balance of O-6’s to O-3’s that our paleo brethren grew up on and adapted to. But the most IMPORTANT thing one can do is treat your large breed friends as if they were your own grade school aged children. Get outside with them. Play with them outside like your own child. They DO have vocabulary you know. Just because they don’t show it in reciprocal speech doesnt mean they wouldn’t love to hear you talk to them about your activities. Label things when you are on walks. My buddy loves clover. When I get ready to drive him to a nearby trail i always ask if he wants to go smell “clover” or do you want to drink some water from the “stream”, excitement and anticipation dripping from my words. I don’t always know his choice but I always to to keep things varied. Satiate your large dogs with human interaction and variety. You’ll get more out of your companions than any top brand food can make a difference.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Anyone interested in bully sticks or car ears check out ” I and Love and You” you can get them on Amazon. That’s the name of the company, From Colorado.
The bully sticks are practically odor-free as are their cow ears. All free range grass fed beef.
I monitor the girls when then eat their bully sticks and when its almost near the end , take them away,i do the same thing with the cow ears.
I have bought many different holistic brands and my older girl would get sick,this brand so far so good!!

[JeffreyT]

sk you may want to look into some of these companies. Many of them are free range or grass fed, some grass finished.

Primal… certified humane with high GAP (Global Animal Partership, same system Whole Food uses) ratings. You can contact certifiedhumane.org to see other pet foods they rate.
Stella and Chewys (grassfed beef and lamb and I think grass finished)
Ziwi Peak, Real Meat Food Company and K9 Natural use grass fed beef and lamb I believe.
Dogs for the Earth says their animals are raised above and beyond humane standards.
Healthy Pet Foods (healthypetdiet.com) raises organic, pasture raised beef. One of my dogs’ favorite foods. Owner is a top cavalier breeder, not doing it for money, sells mostly to breeders. He’s been doing it for over 20 years and says his food has been tweaked to perfection, and his dogs live well beyond breed standard.
Orijen says their food is pasture raised.
Addiction uses a lot of free range but I stopped using when I found out their canola oil is not organic…they said they are trying to change to organic canola oil.

I just added Trudog to their rotation. It’s grass fed but I need to call them to see if it’s grass finished. I’m sure there are more companies out there but haven’t had the time to look into it.

BTW many of these companies use cage free chicken but not range fed so I try to buy chicken from Whole Foods and feed with a premix. The only way to know about travel time to slaughter, conditions and how much time spent in feed lots is to speak with companies directly. This is my understanding anyway.

sk, thank you for pointing out that billions of animals, as deserving of compassion as our pets, are raised in brutal conditions. It would be very helpful to have another section here called ‘HUMANE OPTIONS’. It could also cover the issue of hormones, GMO’s and anti-biotics since the GAP rating from CertifiedHumane.org covers that as well.

I agree with others that best choice for humane is to buy from local farms where you can directly see conditions….kudos to those who do. Not all of us have that option…and the reason a ‘HUMANE OPTIONS’ would be so appreciated.

[Laura L]

My dog also has bouts of gulping and swallowing, I get funny looks when I describe episodes to the vet and he is convinced it is acid reflux. When MacKenzie starts one of these episodes she goes into a “blind panic” and will eat anything. She will lick dirt and hair from the floor, chew the curtains, eat socks, dried leaves and grass. She will eat anything she can get in her mouth and it is difficult to watch and stop. She also has bouts of vomiting around one time a month that is not related to gulping episodes (she generally will vomit after grazing but then it settles down). I have had some success using Prilosec or Pepcid. We recently started seeing a chiropractor and she always gulps or reverse sneezes when her jaw is being adjusted. I think episodes have decreased since starting the chiropractic treatments although I have noticed that during the night when she grooms herself it will often trigger an episode. Maybe the Prilosec with help Quincy, if I find anything else that works I will be sure to post.

[simmy]

Free range is a small part of it.

I don’t think it is humane to force animals to eat something they are not suppose eat to gain more body weight fastest possible to get ready for slaughter.

for me, humanely raised means:
– proper animal husbandry
– have access to grass and open pastures
– not given antibiotics or hormones
– must travel less than an hour to the slaughterhouse not in a crowded truck
– slaughterhouses must be committed to humane slaughter practices.

I believe the pet food industry is one of the biggest contributor of animal abuse since they are all trying to source their meat cheapest possible. We all count ourselves animal lover and most of us are participating this practice too even when we buy premium brands without even knowing it. I am not criticizing anyone though, it’s just what it is.

I was wondering if any raw food brand are paying attention any of these or they are just new members of the industry using touchy marketing words…

• This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by simmy.

[simmy]

I was thinking that too. Raw Bistro listed beef heart is the #1 ingredient in their product. But it still doesn’t add up properly. Even beef hearts are not that cheap when they are grassfed. Aunt Jeni’s says they get their meats from grass-fed farms.

Here is an article a farmer shares his cost http://www.humaneitarian.org/uncategorized/why-grass-fed-beef-costs-so-much/#.VLYAeorF_60

Still quite interesting how come they keep their production cost under $2 per pound while offering all these “quality” products.

[aquariangt]

Based on the ingredient list, most of it is offal- beef parts that aren’t highly desired. Grass fed beef especially doesn’t have a huge market here, and the organ meats in the, are very likely unused. My grocery stores only have the most popular of cuts, and part of the reason grass fed beef is so expensive is because less of it gets used. I get less than 10 requests a year for grass fed beef,and when I get it, it’s usually sirloin or tenderloin. That’s alot of unused beef

I don’t know if all these things are the answer to your question, but it may play a part.

[simmy]

Here is the deal,

There are some raw pet food brands they claim the meat in their product is grass-fed. For example: Raw Bistro or Darwin’s Natural Selections.

Their retail price is about $5-7 per lb. (http://wetnose.com/products/raw-bistro-frozen-beef#.VLXb6orF_60) How do they afford putting grass-fed beef into their products? Average wholesale price of grass-fed beef is around $3.50 – $4.50 per lb. considering their big volume purchases. Let’s say their muscle meat ratio is about %60. That brings their muscle meat cost between $2.10 $2.70 alone. Let’s add organ meat, vegetable other ingredient and all other production cost, I am going to assume it should be close to $4 per lb. without any markup. Their markup, distributor markup, retail markup… It just doesn’t add up.

here is average wholesale meat prices published by usda.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/nw_ls110.txt

Formula 1
Product cost $4 per lb.
Manf. Markup 100% = $8 per lb.
Dist. Markup 40% = $3.2 + $8 = $11.2 per lb.
Ret. Markup 40% = $4.48 = $15.68 per lb.

Formula 2
Product cost $4 per lb.
Man markup 50% = $6 per lb.
Dist. Markup 40% = $2.4 + $6 = $8.4 per lb.
Ret. Markup 40% = $3.36 = $11.76 per lb.

How come they can sell grass-fed beef product that low? It just doesn’t add up unless they keep their cost per lb around $2.

So… What am I missing?

[Susan]

Hi don’t use that dewormer again read the ingredients & pick one that has different ingredients, when I wormed patch 27th December (cause he had dead tapeworms on his bum & a few dead rice worms in his poo) the night I gave him the Mibemax allwormer & next day he was fine, then on the second day he was eating grass & doing his licking mouth what he does when he fells sick & sleeping most of the day then on the 3 day he was fine again….

[theBCnut]

It’s nutrient dense dark green veggies like spinach, alfalfa, seaweed, spirulina, wheatgrass. I order them from Swanson’s in 1 pound bags and mix up my own. I give 1 teaspoon per 20 lbs body weight.

[Dog_Obsessed]

@BCnut: The ingredients are: Papaya leaf, plantain, slippery elm, organic pumpkin seed, pectin, papain and fennel.

@Naturella She has sometimes done it when we walk he before meals in the past, but now she is doing it all the time. On Saturday I was walking her with my neighbor’s dogs, who love to eat grass. By the end of the walk she was doing it too. She didn’t do it afterward though, so we thought maybe she was just thirsty, because it was a pretty long walk.

[Naturella]

I have noticed Bruno doing this in the summertime, when he was on Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (chicken/poultry based) first, and then Back to Basics Open Range (red meat and organ based). They are both high-quality foods so I was not worried about him not getting good nutrients, and his stool output did not seem abnormally large for me to think that the food was not being absorbed. I just didn’t know what it was, but then I figured, maybe it is because we always did our walks/exercising right before eating, so he was getting hungry by then, and was just picking random grass stalks just cause? Not sure, but I didn’t do anything about it, and now that the grass is all yellow and dry, he doesn’t do it anymore. We don’t exercise like we used to either though, so I don’t know if that is a factor. Can’t wait for the weather to warm up just a bit… I really prefer working out outside rather than in a gym, plus, this way I can work out with my dog! 🙂

• This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by Naturella.

[theBCnut]

When mine start grass eating, I give a seaweed, spirulina, alfalfa, or some other supergreen supplement. Since I started giving supergreens all the time, nobody has gone back to grass eating. Gideon used to graze like a cow.

If she is trying to eat non food items, it could be a zinc deficiency.

[Hater and Molly’s Mom]

I know when either of my two girls do a lot of grass eating the food is not working. I change it right away then.

[jakes mom]

Well I hesitate to post anything else here but I just got the KBPF and thought I’d list the ingredients for anyone who’s interested. It’s been a bad weather week in Ohio, lots of long commutes and snow shoveling and below zero temps so I have not had a chance to buy any meat to make the mixes. I have a few days off next week so will give it a shot then.
For the Better in the Raw mix: egg yolk, calcium lactate, beef liver powder, gelatin, whey protein, psyllium husks, EFA from fish oil, taurine, kelp, barley grass, Vitamin E succinate, Vitamin B complex.
Nutritional info based on “as fed” mixed food using ground chicken (average daily meal size 1/4 lb) :
energy 133 kcal
protein 17.29%
carb 1.2%
fat 6.0%
ash 3.19%
calcium 231 mg
phos 74 mg
mg 74 mg
sodium 144 mg
Potassium 201 mg
The U-stew mix for cooked meat has the same ingredients as above plus digestive enzymes.
The company suggests turkey, chicken, beef, venison, lamb or pork with 20% or less fat content.

[Cait Y]

Ok so I have lurked here for a little over a year, and recently started making my own raw cat food via Lisa A. Pierson, DVM because one of my boys almost died after getting into the Dry food AGAIN and his whole GI system blocked up because he cannot handle the lack of fluids in dry food. He is such a picky eater that I had put off the raw diet dreading that he would turn his nose up at it like he did the other high quality raw/semi cooked food I tried buying him. He LOVED the home made food, he even batted off his BFF to eat his food too!
HoundDogMom, other raw feeders please bear with me I know that the whole shebang I know as of now it is 6 pages long. I am trying to paint the whole picture with the dogs, their special needs and what is causing me confusion with the Raw feeding books I have read. There is so much going on right now in my personal life that I am having a very hard time understanding this and if anyone could help point me in the right direction or even a book or website or from experience I would be so very very grateful.
The biggest reservation I have about feeding Raw to the dogs (who LOVED the scoop of homemade cat food I gave them as a test) are the bones and sadly the limited ingredients I can use for my Special Needs Hound.
I have a 14 yr old Walker hound (Forest) who has like no teeth left and was just diagnosed with cushing’s disease but has some pretty abnormal liver tests because of the damage that was done while he went undiagnosed. His liver is so enlarged it displaces his stomach sideways and upwards which makes EASILY digestible food a must. He cannot have food high in phosphorus, copper or ammonia which means little to no red meat and lots of poultry, eggs and pork. He also has problems with chronic Constipation so I would have to be VERY careful about the amount of bone I add to his diet but I also want enough in there to give him the nutrients he needs. Since he is older he also burns a LOT of calories, He is on Vital Fresh pet Turkey or Chicken and gets 1.5 lbs a day. I don’t know what is causing him to burn so many calories except for old age or maybe his body is trying to repair itself – all he does is lounge in the lawn and do his hound dance for food – people or animal whichever he can mac on at the moment lol
My 3 yr old yellow lab (Nova) is also a high calorie burner but she is super active, we do scent tracking, retrieving, and lots of walking/running on the grass. She will go until she drops which I have never seen before, so now I watch her very closely for signs she is over heated. She eats up to 2 lbs of the above dog food a day but is still losing weight on occasion when her activity jumps up again. She has always had double the amount of Eosinophils in her blood that she should at a “normal” rate. She has been checked for parasites so the best I can come up with is that she might have GI issues going on intermittently – she doesn’t transition food gracefully and really doesn’t tolerate even high quality kibble (after research it’s not such a mystery anymore) which is in part what turned me onto Freshpets Vital.
To top it all off I have a Four month old female lab puppy (Ellie) that is still growing. I have her on 2 lbs of Freshpets vital but I am worried that she is not getting something in her diet as well. She has three white lines running across her nails – each nail on every paw. In my experience when the horses have white lines or even indents it means either they were very very sick or have a mineral/vitamin deficiency of some sort. I know when Ellie came to us she had a severe infection of hook and round worms. Her infection was so severe at 8 weeks old that the vet said she would have died untreated – thank you OCD and taking her to the Vet the same day she was brought home lol. They were resistant to the normal worming meds and for 2 months we battled with getting them under control and gone. If Dogs are like horses that would cause the lines because of how sick she was during this (Great going Lemon law Florida) yet I also worry because I know parasites in small animals or even large can cause a huge system imbalance with nutrients which hinders growth.
OK Limited ingredients – because of Forest I have to stick to Chicken, Turkey, and Eggs as a main protein source due to his liver problems and because Rabbit in completely unviable to me unless I want to raise them myself. I have no local butcher – the closest one is three hours away so Chicken and Turkey liver will have to do for organ meat – sometimes I can get chicken hearts once in a blue moon. For Fats I have to choose VERY easily digestible fats from an animal protein because with Forests Liver problems his biliary system can be overloaded very easily and that would be disastrous. Maybe I can add some duck occasionally to his diet?

Copper Issues:
If ammonia restriction is required, feed less red meats and organs since they produce the most ammonia. You may not want to eliminate them entirely though, as they have important nutrients that help with liver function.
Instead, cut back. Feed more poultry, fish, eggs, and pork. If feeding red meat, even in small quantities, buy the absolute best quality you can afford. Preferably grass fed, antibiotic, and hormone free.

Meats generally low in copper are:
• Beef (muscle meat, not organs)
• Eggs
• Turkey (white meat)
• Chicken (white meat)
• Rabbit
• Fish
Meats generally high in copper are:
• Lamb
• Pork
• Pheasant or Quail
• Duck
• Goose
• Salmon
• Organ Meats
When feeding organs for copper issues, some animal livers contain more copper than others. Beef liver is higher in copper than chicken or pork livers. Regardless, the zinc and b vitamins in liver help to reduce the risk of copper toxicity. Though if your dog has an issue with copper, opt for chicken or pork liver. (http://primalpooch.com/raw-feeding-guidelines-dogs-liver-disease/)

I have read Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health of Dogs and Cats. I have some major issues with either of the books, UtCaD is so absolute – if you feed this protein then you need this oil. First of all Canola Oil? Corn Oil? Soybean Oil? Walnut oil? Flax and hemp seed oil? I own horses and I would NEVER give them Corn oil with the GMO crap going around I don’t trust Corn or Canola at all. If I am not comfortable feeding to my strict Herbivores I am definitely not OK feeding it to the other animals. By the way the 2,000 lbs animals have had major GI upset from Canola, Corn, Soybean and Flax seed oil. I’ve given it to them in small amounts – 3 tablespoons a day and I have seen a massive systemic effect that made me take them off of it immediately. It was supposed to give them the right ratio of Omega’s 3 and 6 plus help my older guys move and keep weight on since it was winter. The recommended Ratio of 6 to 3 fats are 10:1 to 5:1 for dogs – I have read that small fish or Krill are the best to supplement dogs with because of the low contamination rate and it should not carry Salmon Sickness. Soybean oil is also something I would never give my dogs or humans or anything because of the way it can mimic hormones and interrupt the function of the Thyroid. Also Kelp is recommended a lot, but there are so many negatives that came out during the feeding kelp to horse’s fad that I will not touch the stuff. If it can affect the horses with the amount of iodine to the point horses became toxic I don’t trust the manufactures. It was not that kelp was being fed in large amounts there was absolutely no regulation on what type they harvested or what it contained. Missing link for dogs is a product I am familiar with and they do make it for dogs with trace minerals but it is flax based. Won’t this completely mess up the balancing? Does anyone here feed this instead of kelp?
The Missing Link Ultimate Skin & Coat:
Active Ingredients (per tbsp)
Flaxseed Dried Kelp
Glucosamine Hydrochloride (Vegetarian) Zinc Monomethionine
Freeze Dried Beef Liver Lecithin
Blackstrap Molasses Chromium Yeast
Rice Bran Selenium Yeast
Primary Dried Yeast Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6)
Sunflower Seed Niacin (Vitamin B3)
Dehydrated Alfalfa Garlic Powder
Dried Carrot Yucca Schidigera Extract
Shark Cartilage Powder* Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)
Freeze Dried Fish Protein Powder Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1)
Freeze Dried Oyster Powder Folic Acid
Barley Grass Leaves Powder Cobalamin (Vitamin B12)
Guaranteed Analysis Amount
Crude Protein (not less than) 18%
Crude Fat (not less than) 28%
Crude Fiber (not more than) 15%
Moisture (not more than) 10%
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 450 mg
**Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 1000 mg
**Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat/Dog food nutrient profiles.

Also if everything is so precise that does not leave room for error such as what if the chickens were raised on Florida soil which is heavy in limestone and deficient in other areas – rather than let’s say somewhere in the bread bowl what about if they were fed a corn based feed and another batch was fed free range? If the meat analysis is different it throws everything off and we all know that meat from south Fl is very different than meat from MI or IN – same principle goes with growing vegetables even organic. How much of a God Factor is there for the abundance of some micronutrients and lack of others? UTCAD also has an abundance of some nutrients way over the NRC guidelines – are dogs different in the fact that they can rid themselves of excess things very easily? I know in humans and horses Vit E and Selenium can be deadly because it builds up in fat and the body doesn’t flush it out like the water-soluble vitamins?
Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health has a lot of oat meal, rice, beans?! Half and Half milk, whole milk, whole wheat bread corn? That sounds not so great for dogs and especially not for cats like it says it can be. What about kidney beans? With feeding my dogs I have learned they do OK on rice occasionally when they have an upset GI but if they are on a diet with rice too long they get backed up. Also the beans – the dogs seem to have issues with digesting them like people sometimes do – why are there so many carbohydrates? Why cannot I do sprouted microgreens or carrots or even baked potatoes because I know the dogs tolerate those vegetables very well. Also Brewer’s Yeast? Isn’t yeast as a whole bad? It’s in everything and I know Nova already is prone to yeast infections in her ears and when she gets a UTI – Also can Brewer’s yeast cause or attribute to bloat? Milk – isn’t milk products bad if they are in large amounts such as 2 cups milk plus 2 cups rolled oats and 2 eggs and calcium powder? Everything to me seems so skewed.
Also RMB are out of the question – Forest cannot eat them and Nova and Ellie are gulpers – they came from a large litter and it would be just my luck to end up in emergency surgery with one of them. I have a grinder to which I can grind the bone up with the meat and I know the purpose of the bone was for dental health but if I make Meat Jerky and other goodies can I replicate that without worrying about emergency surgery or broken teeth?
Since I own a grinder already for cat food why cannot I grind bones to supplement their food with? So far in my research the basic recipe and consensus I have come across is as follows:
16% Organ meat
10% – 25% Bone
The rest of the food would be muscle meat and muscle meat
Meat is very high in phos and the bone is high in Cal which means the Cal to Phos ratio should be 1.2 to 1.5:1 although 1:1 to 2.5:1 is ok as well. I just need to make sure the dogs consume more Cal than Phos but the question is do I need to add bone meal or can I grind my own bones to supplement?
Here is what the Article analysis the bone content to be in prey animals:
Bone Content In Raw Foods
When sourcing bones for your dog’s diet, it’s a good idea to know the approximate amount of bone in commonly sourced foods. Here is a quick guide to help you keep your dog’s bone content in the right range; between 10% and 25%.
Chicken Whole chicken (not including the head and feet): 25% bone/Leg quarter: 30%/Split breast: 20%/Thigh: 15%/Drumstick: 30%/Wing: 45%/Neck: 36%/Back: 45%/Turkey/Whole turkey: 21%/Thigh: 21%/Drumstick: 20%/Wing: 37%/Neck: 42%/Back: 41%
Pork Feet: 30%/Tails: 30%/Ribs: 30%
Beef Ribs: 52%
Rabbit Whole rabbit (fur and all): 10% Whole (dressed): 25-30%

From this can I remove the proper amount of bones or add more bones in to balance or would you suggest a bone meal powder? Also I have yet to factor in the percentage of vegetable/fruit/microgreens in the recipe – I am just so lost so if HoundDogMom could help or someone else could chime in I would be so grateful. I am trying very hard to learn as much as I can but between the animals and two sick family members and special needs animals by the time I have a moment to sit down I am out like a light for the night or my brain is so frazzled everything looks like it was written in French. Am I over thinking this? I just don’t want to screw Ellie up – she has already had such a bad start with the worm infection – and Forest needs nutrients to rebuild his liver correctly and I wanted to see if this change in diet would help Nova’s Eosinophils come to a normal level. Also has anyone ever seen white lines on every toenail that grows parallel with the skin? Any help would be so appreciated there is just not a lot of room for error with Forest right now with his liver Alt levels 4 times what they are supposed to be. They cannot stay on the Freshpet much longer because to feed the dogs its 19 dollars a day and that’s not a very good long term solution.
Thanks so much everyone~!~ I Hope everyone had a great New Year and wonderful Holiday
`RedMare

[Jon h]

Hi everyone,

So I’ve lurked here for a while now collecting information regarding nutrition and have come across an interesting topic. I became interested in natural allergy remedies as it seems our Australian cattle dog has some itchy skin problems the vet believes is related to allergies from the environment.

Now before we get on to the topic of honey I would prefer that this be a FACT based discussion not a personal opinion, anecdotal evidence type discussion. Unfortunately as humans we are able to make extremely irrational and unfounded correlations especially when we don’t understand something or want something to be true (ie we desperately want a natural remedy to be as effective or more effective than a pharmaceutical remedy). This has no place in the canine nutritional world (or human) as toying with an animals nutrition based on weak non-scientific beliefs is in my opinion horribly ignorant and in some cases an unethical thing to do. So please keep responses scientific in nature and cite articles if you can (petmd, blog posts and natural canine health daily articles type sources with no references don’t count as scientific!)

The theory behind the honey supplementation seems to be this: Local honey supposedly contains local allergens and supplementing with it acts similar to a vaccine by exposing the animal to low levels of an allergen and helping to develop an immune response to the allergen.

Now this sounds all fine and dandy in theory and certainty a naive layman will take this as face value and argue this as being fact (i’m am trying to be an informed layman!). But does this actually have any scientific value? That is what I want to find out.

I have read several claims that in fact there is no scientific basis for this. The argument is that bees do not extract pollen from the common plant sources of airborne pollen which cause the allergic reactions in our dogs. They of course get pollen from flowers and a few other sources, they do not collect pollen from say pine trees or most grasses. Any contamination during transport or in the nest from the common local allergens is said to be negligible and will not help build an immunity.
example of a study on humans:
http://www.annallergy.org/article/S1081-1206%2810%2961996-5/abstract

There is also a Finnish study on humans which took 3 groups, one group as a control, one supplemented with regular honey and one supplemented with a honey that had birch pollen added to it. The Ones taking the honey with birch pollen saw improvements and had to use less antihistamines to control their symptoms while the ones supplementing with regular honey saw no difference.
abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21196761

Now my problem is that I see honey toted continuously on natural canine remedy sites. However I do not see a signal study either in humans or canines showing any truth to the theory. Any evidence is extremely weak correlation evidence with no control or consideration for other variables. All actual scientific studies of this theory i’ve personally come across show that their so no truth to this theory. So is this just a myth?

The second problem I see that REALLY concerns me is there are huge ranges of supplementation dosages. Some references say to feed your dog 1/4 teaspoon per week while other such as the lady in the non-scholarly article below say two tablespoons per day for larger dogs (in her case her lab and staffordshire terrier). Now that is extremely worrisome to me as there are 17 grams of sugar per table spoon of honey. if I am to assume her dogs weigh approximately 80 pounds (upper end of pure lab retrievers and beyond the upper limit of staffordshire terriers) then I estimate their daily requirement of calories (using online calculator) to be 1630. If there are 64 calories per tablespoon of honey (google) this would mean they are getting 7.9% of their daily intake of calories straight from simple sugars. Comparing this to my daily intake of ~2300 cals (because from my understanding canines metabolize simple sugars similar to the way humans do) this computes (if i’ve done my math right) to 48 grams of straight simple sugars a day for me. This is over my targets for the day even making the assumption that my other foods have zero sugars in them…. Now assuming that the dog is already getting sugars from their regular food source you are probably doubling their recommended sugar intake per day. This doesn’t seem right to me at all as a human consistently doubling their recommended sugar intake daily would be a good candidate for type 2 diabetes. So why are people recommending this to do to our dogs?

Michele Crouse interviewed about honey supplementation (under “honey for dogs” section)
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/10_9/features/Bee-Honey-Products-Help-Canines_15967-1.html

I’m hoping this sparks some interesting conversation. As you can probably tell I am somewhat against this theory. Mostly because I have yet to see a shred of scientific evidence for it and I don’t personally like adding or subtracting things from my dogs diet based on personal opinions and weak, unfounded theories. I’d be interested to see if there is actually research supporting this idea.

Is there any truth to this theory? or are people just pumping their dogs full of sugar and added calories?

[Susan]

Hi Barbara, when I first got Patch he ate cats poo, I live in communal living of 12 units & villas & we share the common gardens & grounds, at first I didn’t notice what he was doing, cleaning up all the neighbours cats poo, then he started to be sick & have diarrhoea, vet said what’s he eating, he’s probably ate something on his walks, so I started to watch where his big nose went when walking & it went straight to the garden with all the neighbours cats poo…the trainer at the vets told me to teach him LEAVE IT & showed me how to make him leave something on the ground, so now when he’s about to do something naughty, he first looks up at me to see if I’m watching him & I am & he just leaves it, sometimes if he keeps sniffing in the 1 spot to long, I’ll say LEAVE IT, come on….. he also licks other dogs wee off the grass, I don’t know what that’s about, I’d say it’s a undesexed females wee……& we kiss them, yuk lol

[Akari_32]

You guys know I’m always on the look out for a deal, and to better the dogs diets at the same time. I was surfing around and came across Hare Today. I know several of you guys use it, so I decided to check it out.

I’ve figured out that I need to keep it at $3.89 and less, to keep the price competitive to what I am doing now, which is See Spot Live Longer, and sale meats (lots of sale whole roaster/frier chickens @.@). Which should be easy, I think.

However, what is shipping like? Is there a “free shipping when you spend so much” deal they do? I need to stick with less than $30 a month. If it needs to be bought in bulk, thats fine with me. Shipping is a huge factor on this right now.

What makes me really like this idea, though is that the prices are cheaper than in store (which means nothing if shipping is too much lol), and I can get Bentley more than mass amounts of chicken, because the variety here sucks. Its either chicken, beef, chicken, pork, chicken, maybe some random organ someone ordered at Publix but never picked up, more chicken… Everything but the chicken and some pork is just so pricey, $5 a pound and up! I’m thinking he is still having problems with chicken though, because even though he’s been on raw for some time now, he still breaks out and gets red and itchy and yeasty at times. I know the grass and rain and other pollens has something to do with it, but I can’t help but wonder if completely cutting out chicken would help him even more, or maybe cutting out the pre-mix, if its something in the SSLL.

If I can cut out the SSLL, are the meat/organ/bone grinds on Hare Today balanced? Like this beef blend, for example?

“Ground Beef/Organs/Tripe/Bone, 5 lb $19.20

Hormone and antibiotic free beef. This is approximately 80% meat, 7% tripe, 7% organ [heart,liver, lung, and kidneys] and 6% bone.
Fine Ground

This food is low in Sodium. It is also a good source of Vitamin B6, Phosphorus, Zinc and Selenium, and a very good source of Protein and Vitamin B12”

I would think yes, but I figured I’d make sure. According to the calculator, he’d only need about 3.84 oz. He currently gets a 5 oz chunk of whatever meat I give him and SSLL, and a little coconut oil because the princess won’t lap up the SSLL anymore without the coconut oil, or a good deal of blood from the meat. Rotten little dog lol

Also, since I’m considering cutting chicken from his diet, should I also cut out other birds, and stick with beef, pork and maybe fish? He didn’t really like fish based kibbles when he was a puppy, and he’s not a huge fan of fish oil, but maybe he’d like raw fish? The whole sardines or anchovies, or whatever they were, on Hare Today are right in my price range at $3.85 a pound, and I know whole fishes are balanced meals. I’d also like if you guys that know the site better than I do to recommend some goodies that are in my feeble price range. Mixes of meats to make balanced meals are also good, as well. Just keep the average price per pound in my price range 🙂

As far as bones and RMB, I can just get those in store, I think. Some prices are cheaper at Publix than Hare Today, so I’ll price shop for bones first before deciding where I’ll buy them.

I’d also like to know if there are any other sites like this that may be cheaper, or have other things. I’m also looking at complete freeze-dried and dehydrated meals, if anyone can recommend any that are going to be about $30 or less a month for an 8 pound dog.

Thanks a bunch guys!

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

I know that I can get some advice from the knowledgeable people on this site.
I haven’t posted in sometime but the regulars were very helpful when my Pepper came to me 3 years ago.
We have been through MANY ILLNESSES-I have fought for my angel every step of the way-but as she is aging the chronic inflammation she suffers from reared it’s ugly head again.
I have tried many foods and she adjusted to the amicus senior kibble that I would give her soaked of course wit a topper of boiled organic chicken or grassed beef or bison.
she was doing fine. A few weeks back the regurgitation and then vomiting started along with a touch of diarrhea.
Blood work x-rays and ultrasound showed nothing- next step endoscopy which her internist is not too anxious to do given her age & her numerous other health issues.
He feels it is her diet and you guessed it wants me to try the veterinary prescription foods-now understand I am not trying to get in a battle with these vets-my Pepper is my main concern & if this junk will keep her going I WILL DO IT. I looked at the Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein wet & dry & got sick when I read the ingredients!!!
Can anyone guide me in an alternative-she has been eating organic pumpkin or sweet potato with organic ground turkey (as DR. Karen Becker) suggests, but I can’t keep her on this forever- I thought the Honest Kitchen base mix might work but she threw that up also.
I asked the Dr to put her on Reglan because I feel Pepper has a motility issue-she doesn’t digest her food completely, she has been on the Reglan since Monday & hasn’t reguritated or vomited. I know there are advocates of raw feeding, but, to me & I may be very wrong -she is just too old to start her on raw feeding.
I think since she is taking the Reglan, I may try to re-introduce a tsp. of the Honest Kitchen grain-free base mix again and see what happens.
Thank you for any help anyone may give.
Cheryl,Pepper & Mille-Belle

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

I have a similar question I have a 5month old female mini schnauzer-I have been feeding her 3x a day -Horizon Legacy Puppy, Orijen Puppy, Amicus Puppy, 1/3 cup am & pm ,noon time 1/4 c w/ lightly cooked carrots & 1tsp coconut flakes.
I have recently cut out the noon kibble & substituted the orijen freeze dried tundra patty-just 1.
My question next month she will turn 6 months-is that when I stop the noon feeding?
She is ALWAYS HUNGRY-SHE WOULD EAT 24/7 -It has been a very long time since I had a puppy and am very afraid of giving her a diet that has a high fat content due to the breeds problems with a high fat diet.
i also forgot to mention that with her kibble she either gets just under an ounce of grass fed beef or chicken lightly cooked. Her weight has almost doubled since I got her at 13 weeks.
No worms etc to account for her very voracious appetite. Or are all puppies constantly wanting to eat???
I have an 11 y.o. female mini schnauzer that has recently had to change from Amicus senior to the honest Kitchen “Kindly” due to her bad digestive issues.
I guess I am just very worried that little Millie will have the same issues as my angel pepper if I don’t get this diet correct from the start.
Thank you very much for any insight and help.
fonly,
Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

[Melissaandcrew]

Hey there…Pugs is right and my crew eat average sort of levels..no more than 16 percent. When I wish to incorporate a higher fat one, I mix with a lower fat one to keep the overall level the same. Ex..Acana Grassland is 17percent fat so I might mix it with Natures Variety Prairie or Nutrisource etc etc. Hyperlipidemia is also a schnauzers problem so kust use caution in higher fat foods.

[Susan]

Look for a low carb food, my boy was licking & licking his paws & his paws smelt like corn chips, real yeasty & when he’d walk on wet grass, his paws would get red & itchy…..His 2 front paws are the worst, he can’t eat potatoes, Sweet Potatoes Peas, no starchy foods….also bath him & his paws in Malaseb Medicated Shampoo its an anti-fungal shampoo kills the bacteria but doesnt dry out his skin & the Malaseb relieves his itch & red paws & stops his smelly paws, so no licking…
Your best to feed either cooked or raw diet so u can control the amount of carbs he’s eating have you looked at “K9 Natural” freeze dried food. This food was invented for itchy dogs, has no beet pulp either, here’s their link to have a read….
http://www.k9naturalusa.com/ the Chicken & Venison has the least fat%

[theBCnut]

Are you saying that her feet are red from licking them? Or do you think she has a food allergy to red and orange things? Beet pulp is not a red item at all and saliva stains are not related to what color is in the food. Those are myths. She may be licking her feet due to either contact allergy, like to grass or a cleaning product, or food hypersensitivity, which can be to any ingredient that has protein in it, including meats, grains, fruits, veggies. The stains can be a yeast infection due to being damp all the time or a bacteria in the saliva.

Definitely try switching foods, but take the ingredient list with you and try to find a food that is very different from what you are currently feeding. Also, start rinsing her feet when she comes in from outside. Some people keep a cat litter pan by the back door for this purpose. One cup of vinegar to one gallon of water is a good rinsing agent.

[Lynn J]

I am in the same boat. I was feeding a rotation of Orijen and Acana foods, but despite the fact my dogs were doing great on them, it’s really beyond my budget to keep it up. I’ve added Wellness Core to my rotation, both the original and the ocean. Wellness Core is still a 5 star food and the company seems to be reputable. For a cost comparison using Chewy.com, Acana Grasslands (15 lb) is 45.99 or $3.066/lb. Wellness Core original (12 lb) is $25.95 or $2.16/lb. My dogs are doing very well with this in their rotation.

[Susan]

I boil chicken breast then make little sections at 60grams & freeze then, I boil pumkin & same section up & freeze in little cubes weighting 16grams, its about 1 tablespoon I put in blender & munch up its easier then cutting up bits of chicken everyday, …I would be giving a good dog probiotic daily… my boy was put on ant-acid Zantac now Losec (Oemprazole) as he has acid reflux we think thats whats making him feel sick, so maybe dont give no coconut oil just incase as its to high in fat….wait when he’s doing better….
Patch is having an Endoscope & biopies this Tuesday as he keeps feeling sick again of a morning & wanting grass again, vets said IBD in the begining & vets put him on Eukaunaba Intestinal Low residue this kibble breaks up & digests easier giving their stomach & bowel a rest, Iams has a low residue kibble but its has different ingredients to the Eukanuba Intestinal, Iams has by-products & more fiber.. Brown rice is better then white rice but has more fiber or you can boil oats as oats soothe the stomach, rice can cause diarrhea my boy cant eat rice as it irratates his bowel but normally white rice will firm up poos & is easy to digest…..you can do 1/2 chicken 1/2 rice & pumkin, with pumkin you only use a little bit about 1 teaspoon to a small meal..
If he doesnt get better after trying different meds like an ant acid, Pepcid or Zantac vet may have to look down his throat & do biopies like Im doing with Patch cause its been over 1 year of trying everything & Patches poos are good & firm but he’s always licking his mouth eating grass or plants cause he fells sick, I need to know whats wrong with his stomach, I can see him suffering after his Zantac he seems to settle & feel better..

[weezerweeks]

Thursday morning took my Bailey to the vet with watery stools and nausea. He ruled out pancreatitus. He gave him tylosin and cerenia. It made him a lot better but a few minutes ago he was nauseated again and his stomache was hurting because he was trying to eat the shrubs, grass anything he could get in his mouth. I boiled him chicken and fixed brown rice, white rice and quinoa. He weighs 7 lbs. how many tablespoons of chicken and rice or quinoa should I give him? He eats twice a day. Which rice is better the white or brown or the quinoa? I also added 1/4 teaspoon of perfect form. I need to let his stomache heal. I am going to try this for a week. I also added 1/4 teaspoon of coconut oil. I just don’t know how much to feed. Can someone tell me. Does anyone have any other suggestion? Thanks Deanna(better known as weezerweeks)

[Akari_32]

She has such a great time on walks, it’s the cutest thing. She didn’t like our walk this morning much, though. It’s 40-something degrees and very windy. She had to wear her new sweater the neighbor gave her, and it covers her whole body, so she’s not really sure what to do with it on LOL She did do some running through the grass, though, and had a pretty good time, regardless. And getting the thing on wasn’t as hard as I thought it would be. Once its over her head, her legs are so short that they pretty much just pop right into the holes. She must have worn something similar before, because once it was on, she jumped out of my lap, and ran to the door like “I’m ready! Lets go!” You can tell the cold is getting to her though, because she’s limping pretty heavily on her right shoulder. I may start giving her double glucosamine every other day.

[Michael H]

Visited the butcher today. I found I can get beef heart at 2.29/lb from the butcher, so I may end up going there weekly for some and maybe grind it in with another meat myself. I have a gimpy grinder that can do meat, not bone though. They do bone in grinding, but can’t offer it until deer season is over. Wish they had any pastured/grassfed meats, but at least its promised they don’t use sodium/broth injected items.

They also had frozen cows brain there! Not sure if they’d go for that, haha.

So from them I found I have access to:
Organs-beef heart/liver/brain, chicken liver/unsure of hearts/gizzards(is this meaty or organ?), possibly spleen I think if they can order it.

RMB-bone in chicken parts, turkey necks/wings, assorted ribs. Other necks, trachea, chicken feet, etc. are still hard to find. Bernie is a gulper so I’m not sure what size to even use-too small and no chewing action, too big and he may choke on it. Zuli is a gnawer and has great teeth already, 3yo and never needed a dental.

I forgot to mention that between us boarding guest dogs from our home, and another cat present from my sister in law who lives with us, I may just be able to raw feed for the first meal of the day, while everyone else is put away. Either that, or have RMB meals in the morning, since I’m assuming they’ll take a while to chow down and everyone else will go nuts if they sense what’s going on.

Do you think my ‘bases’ may be covered if I did raw in the AM and a good freeze dried in the PM?

[Naturella]

BCnut, I have a question – I have seen in Bruno’s stool undigested carrot and apple pieces from Sojo’s/THK dehydrated foods. It is only those two that he seems to be unable to stomach. However, if I give him raw apple, I see no peel, nothing discernible in his stool (and I am a stool examiner, lol). I haven’t tried with raw carrot recently, but I think it would still come out as it enters. I have also given him raw coconut and it comes out as it entered him. Coconut oil gets absorbed though. Kale sticks (branches) with some leaf matter are not discernible but sometimes when he eats grass (he does it every now and again), it comes out in straight bunches, like it entered him.
So why would he not be able to eat some rehydrated veggies vs raw? I do let them sit for a while in the water, but they don’t ever completely return to an “original” form. This also happens while on THK Perfect Form.

My next question is, I have seen recipes for cooking with THK for treats and such. Should I cook it first till the veggies are mushy, or cook it lightly and puree it, or is it not a big concern?

[Kristin C]

I feed both my dog’s raw but only one seems to eat grass regularly. What super green do you use BC?

[Cotons mom]

My two Cotons eat grass like it is going out of style. They race out of the door into the yard and start looking for their favorite type of grass. Is there something missing in their diet? I feed raw using food only from the EC list along with rotation of the food. They get probiotics daily. Any suggestions would be great, I want to do the best that I can for these bundles of joy. Thanks so much.

[Merry G]

PS.
I just read the report from this Doc Bovee for about the 5th time. It sounds like the idea for reduced protein diets was developed in the 40s but it really has no basis in scientific fact. It even appears that a low protein diet is worse for renal failure. We picked up some Science Diet kd last week.
I fed my Boxer some of it trying to ease her into new food and she’s not been feeling well for the last couple of days. She won’t eat but drinks water and then goes and eats grass and throws up. She also seems to spend an inordinate amount of time cleaning her
“girlie area” especially at night.
I’m calling the Vet on Mon and hoping to get her in the same day.
I know that nausea and vomiting are supposed to be signs of more advanced kidney failure but it seems to me that in the so called “early stages” these symptoms shouldn’t be occurring just yet and perhaps there’s something else going on her making her sick. Sigh….and that’s probably just me grasping at straws and trying to maintain hopefulness that my Sage hasn’t moved so quickly into the advanced stages of renal failure.
She was only diagnosed this past month.
I live in the desert and I don’t feel that the vets we’ve been to over the years have been all that great. They seem to care more about cows and horses than house pets. We’ve gone to all 4 of the vets available and their competency has alot to be desired but we’re hoping this guy is the best of the worst.
Ok, thanks again to you all who have taken the time to read my ramblings and responded. We dog folks are sniffalicious top shelf!

[Nancy M]

Thank you all for your comments! I appreciate them. I think I’m going to try keeping her on this food a bit longer and see how it goes. Haven’t noticed the grass eating all day yesterday and so in a few days, once I get her totally switched over, I’ll see how she does. I’ll try to give her another week or two. Otherwise, it will take the new puppy forever to eat up 20 lbs. of this stuff. I had some reservations about the Victor, because it seems to me that there might be too many different proteins to get used to……..even for the puppy. I think my next choice is going to be the Nutrisource. I don’t mind rotating different formulas, but I think it’s better to start off with formulas that have a limited amount, at least until they get use to them, one at a time.

THANKS AGAIN!

[theBCnut]

I have one that is a grazer. He looks for particular grasses to eat, but if he get a super grren he doesn’t graze. He doesn’t eat grass to vomit though.

Then there’s Micah. He has a few different food sensitivities and some of them make him eat grass due to upset stomach. That’s the only time he eats grass, so I know if I see him eating grass, he needs a food change.

[Hater and Molly’s Mom]

When i tried to switch Molly to Orijen she did the same exact thing. She was eating a whole lot of grass, more than usual, and throwing up white looking liquid too. She did the same thing with Acana. As soon as i took her off both of those foods it all stopped. I had to take those two out of the rotation.

[Susan]

Hi Ellgee, how’s ur boy been going, did you try the elimintion diet as this would have been the best thing to do, to see what foods can be causing these problems as well as the environment…My vet told me that it was just from the enviornment but this winter he started itching & scratching, so I started a food elimination diet to see what foods he can & can not eat…
I found my boy can’t have potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas, wheat & boiled rice also if he has tooo much banana, he starts scratching his ears, I look up high carb fruits & bananas are the highest…Sweet potatoes makes his ears itch, Wheat gave him red itchy paws aswell as grasses, potates gives diarrhea & bad rash all over his chest & hive like lumps all over his body……also is he on a good dog probiotic for his stomach & bowel?

[theBCnut]

I would try going back to the old food and see if the grass eating decreases. It may be that there is some ingredient in the foods that she is reacting to and the new food has more of it. You may need to find a food that has a different protein and carb source. Another reason that some dogs eat grass is because they crave something in greens, so a super green supplement cure the issue, but I don’t think that’s what is going on here.

[Nancy M]

I recently aquired an unwanted 10 month old mini Aussie. She’s been on Diamond Naturals puppy food since about 10 weeks of age. No major issues with it, except I DONT like feeding anything made by Diamond. Anyway, I also have decided to get a new Sheltie Puppy in a couple weeks, who is on Victor’s Hi-Pro Plus formula (for active dogs and puppies). Since I was getting ready to switch the Aussie to something else anyway, I started to VERY SLOWLY start switching the Aussie over to this food as well.

My question is this…….since she’s been eating this food, still mixed with the old Diamond, she’s also been eating grass more than she did before, which was only occasionally. But now, she’s also eating the grass, then vomiting it up, along with a whitish, somewhat clear and frothy looking liquid. This is not an everyday occurrence, but I’m not quite sure what’s causing it. Maybe it’s the new food, maybe not. I know there’s other reasons dogs will do this, so I’d just like some insight or suggestions to consider. Her appetite is good, stools are fine and she acts normal. I’m just a bit leery of switching her over 100% now.

Thanks!

[Susan]

Hi Dee, maybe take her to a vet, for a few test & meds.. she may have an under lining problem, could have bacteria of the stomach (H-Pylori bacteria virus) or bowel (SIBO) parasites, IBD etc…it could be a health problem causing her sloppy poos, vomiting & grass eating…she definitely has a Gi problems……when I first rescued my boy 2 years ago, he was doing the same with vomiting, diarrhea rumbling bowel noises, always eating grass…..when I took him to vets he was put on metronidazole, its an antibiotic for their bowel/stomach, the Metro helped my boy a few times…..
Vet has told me he probably was feed a very poor diet from a pup & probably not feed daily & starved some days….the vet said he sees it alot with rescued dogs in the end they are diagnosed with IBD due to the dogs having either bad parasite infections when younger & poor diets … Patch was 4 years old when I rescued him, the crap food that they are feed must do something to their bowels & stomach after years & years of eating it day in & day out & having no other foods in their diet, so when I’d give him any good foods
higher in protein or fat % he’d become ill..

I’d also put her on a good dog probiotic, Patch has been on a Veta Farm Dog probiotic now for over 1 year also he eats his vet diet Eukanuba Intestinal & does real well now, but when I tried commerical premium kibbles they just didnt work for him I just tried the Wellness Simple Duck & Oatmeal & Lamb & Oatmeal he was doing real well, I was so happy, I thought the vets wrong, 1 month after being on the Wellness Simple Lamb & Oatmeal Patch had his sloppy poos, bad gas, waking up 2am to poo.. so he’s back on his Eukanuba Intestinal Low residue kibble that breaks down real easy & is easier on his stomach & bowel & its low in fiber 1.70% & fat 10%…In America you have Iams but the ingredients are different to Eukanubas ingredients I dont know why…..

what about home cooked or a kibble with ingredients like Beneful without the by-product meats & some of the other nasty ingredients like Gluten meal, animal digest, propylene glycol, sugar, meat & bone meal, soy flour & all the preservatives…
Patches Eukanuba has corn grites & corn apparently corn grites are low residue that breaks down easier so less work on their bowel & smaller poos, we often see corn & people say oh it has corn but corn grites grounded works for some dogs with bowel problems….so maybe she’d do better with a kibble with corn but better ingredients then the Beneful..

My boy also has bad skin allergies & ear problems & does real good on his Eukanuba Intestinal no itchy ears no scratching no sloppy poos, he has his hive like lumps at the moment but its spring so its from the environment grasses & pollens, he loves to run thru tall grass & bushes….but he cant eat potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas..he gets diarrhea, bad gas & itchy skin & ears..
I’d take her to a vet & find out whats happening …she may just need a course of the Metronidazole to clear what ever happening with her stomach & bowel..something is wrong, poor girl..

[Dee J]

HELP! I adopted my 6 year old Puggle from a family that had her since she was a puppy. They were kind enough to give us a big bag of her dog food – BENEFUL. There’s no way I’d feed a dog Beneful. I fed it to her for a week or two while trying to figure out the best food for her. I have another dog who has food allergies and I feed him Wellness Simple Canned Duck & Oatmeal formula. That keeps his skin from getting red and itchy and keeps his ear infections to a minimum.

I started her on a dry Wellness Simple. She didn’t like it – literally spit it out. So I tried Taste of the Wild. That made her sick – vomiting and diarrhea. Then I tried Natural Balance. We came home to poop in the living room. I let someone talk me into Sprout, the Fleet Farm brand. She was fine for a few weeks and now she has diarrhea again.

I always transition her slowly from one food to another, so I know that’s not the problem. She eats a lot of grass which may be an issue. I’m wondering if too much protein upsets her tummy. The weird thing is, she’s usually fine for a few days (even a few weeks) and then boom – poop everywhere. The only dog food she hasn’t had any issue with is freakin’ Beneful. Any suggestions?

[Susan]

Has anyone had their dog tested for skin allergies such as hive like lumps all over their body, itchy ears, sore swollen throat, running nose, sneezing etc, I know that these are a enviornment allergies as we have just come into spring here in Australia, a season I’m starting to dislike, I dont believe in blood test for food Allergies BUT are enviornment allergies test done..
Has any dog owners had environment allergies test done or is it the same test as they do for food allergies & what sort of test were done on their dogs & about how much did it cost & was it worth doing, as we cant stop all the pollens, grasses etc outside..
I’m just curious as Im seeing his vet this afternoon as there’s been something wrong with Patches throat since friday morning after having a morning spew of acid, at first I thought that the stomach acid had burnt his throat making it very sore, when he brought up all the yellow acid but its Wednesday he should of gotten better by now, he’s been waking me up thru the night & making these wierd swollowing noises like something is stuck in his throat & just starring at me like something is wrong…. Ive put him back on his Losec 10mg daily for the stomach reflux again, The Losec has stopped him eating grass every morning like he’s been doing all last week…but he’s still got his sore throat….
Do enviornment allergies cause swollon throat?? I know foods can cause these symptoms, so I’ve stopped all extra foods & put him back on his vet diet only since Friday….has anyone experience these symptoms with their dogs? If so what did you do?

[Michael H]

Hi everyone! Not sure if this is the right forum section to post this, but I’m in dire need of some help.

We have an almost 9 year old rescued Basset Hound, who we have been struggling to manage yeast and chronic inflamed skin since we’ve had him this past year. The vet has him on persistent hydroxyzine and prednisone, of which I try to give the least effective dose, as especially prednisone I’m not that comfortable using due to the side effects.

Upon shelling out for an allergy test (environmental and diet [Spectrum Groups Spot Report]), we’ve found out he’s positive for 19 things and borderline for another 7 out of a total of 91 tested items.

His symptoms are always the worst in the spring/summer, as one of the main allergens is grass, which as far as I know I can’t do much about. I’ve replanted our yard to grass that he’s supposedly not allergic to, but anything that blows our way from a neighboring yard cancels that out.

There are a lot of dietary items as well, and finding a food for him has been a nightmare. I’ve considered cooking food for him, but unsure what’s considered “balanced”, and raw feeding makes me a bit nervous as I’ve heard that grocery-grade meats can possibly be tainted since they are meant to be cooked until a safe temperature, and I don’t want to hurt him. Any outlet in our area that sells organic/free range/etc. isn’t very accessible or is very expensive.

The list of foods he tested positive for are:

Venison
Eggs
Lamb
Wheat
Rice
Oats
Potato
Carrots

Borderline Foods:
Dairy (Milk)

Low-scoring/Negative:
Beef
Rabbit
Poultry Mix
Pork
Soy
Corn
Beet
Flax
Barley
Brewers Yeast
Kelp
Alfalfa
Fish Mix
Green Pea
Duck

So, I have to avoid conventional grains. Due to his yeast issues/dermatitus, I’m also assuming that the lowest starch/low glycemic food would be in his best interest. The main issue I’m running into is that most grain free foods use potatoes, eggs, or carrots, which he’s also allergic to.

On one had it seems that wet food may be the way to go, but as he’s older, his teeth aren’t the best. They are all still intact, but he doesn’t really gnaw on anything at all (can’t really with his droops, they are probably easy to chomp down on and would hurt) to clean them, and brushing hasn’t seemed to do a whole lot, so I’m fearing that wet food may make it worse. I’ve bought knuckle bones for him and our other dog, but he only eats the tasty stuff on the outside and his sister gets the hand-me-down since she will actually gnaw and grind it down. Her teeth are excellent in regards to tartar.

From the test it looks like he can have peas, lentils, or chickpeas as a binder, but again I’m unsure of how much starch content may be in the resulting food. I’m finding sweet potato in a lot of the foods as well, but it wasn’t tested for, and I’m unsure of how related they may be.

So far I’ve tried Taste of the Wild Wetlands & Pacific Stream (which we feed to our other dog), but they didn’t do a whole lot for him-both contain either sweet potatoes, potato, or egg. Our other dog doesn’t seem to have any issues thus far at 3 years, thank goodness, and hopefully it stays that way.

The best looking food I’ve come across is Orijen 6 fish, but it’s very expensive. It doesn’t start listing carb sources until the 12th ingredient, but I can’t really tell if that’s a good or bad thing-chickpeas, red lentils, green lentils, and green peas all have protein as well, and they seem to count that towards the protein % for the food, so their ingredient %’s could be just as high as if it were listed as the second ingredient, like I find in a lot of other, cheaper foods.

If we can get any help with this, it would be much appreciated. Thank you for your time!

Mike & Beth