[cchilb]

I have three dogs, two are large dogs, but my 30-pound dog is allergic to a lot of foods.
I say this because price matters.
I need something that has NO Fish Mix, NO Salmon, Corn, Flax, Kelp or Soybean She is highly allergic to .

she high on her list, but not fully allergic is Peas and Chicken
All of mine are on Nutrena Loyall Life Adult Lamb & Rice Dog Food, 40 lb. Bag, for 35.00 from Tractor Supply

Do I have any other options?

• This topic was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by cchilb. Reason: replaced Salmon with Soybean
• This topic was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by cchilb. Reason: added brand of dog food on

[GSDsForever]

joanne,

Thank you; you’re very kind to say that. This is rough, isn’t it? This trying to find a high quality, safe food that is grain inclusive . . . while needing to avoid a major common ingredient like chicken (or in Jessica’s case, gluten grains)?

I know of another line’s formulas that many, many top show people in GSDs have fed for a very long time . . . safely and happily, + dogs doing well and looking great. But it has CHICKEN (and barley, which wouldn’t work for Jessica’s needs either).

Bummer to hear yours didn’t like the EP/HS. Were you feeding it straight up, no additions?

Have you tried Annamaet?

I typically add to dry . . . wet foods (canned or fresh), good oil. I also add warm water most of the year. Do you think that would help yours to eat? I’m currently adding sardines in oil, as I want the protein & fat a bit higher anyway. We’re trying to see if she can handle fish, with her food allergy/allergies.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by GSDsForever.

[D]

Commercial or Homemade- I do a bit of both. There are a few pet stores that offer a rewards program. For instance, if you buy ‘X’ amount of frozen dinners you get one free. I find going raw is not all that expensive. Also, remember you will save money in the long run from not needing to go to the Vet from issues concerning dry kibble. Such as allergy meds, reactions, cancer, etc…
Ordering food tends to be more costly, you may be better off going to a local butcher or a local grocery store and find meat there, i have a great success finding offal in grocery stores, very inexpensive too. Make sure you wash any meat you buy from the grocery store thoroughly and freeze meat no less than 3 days in order to kill any bacteria that may have contaminated the meat.
Make sure you clean up after your dog eats. I will brush my dogs teeth after eating if i plan on letting him lick me or my guests to ensure no spreading of bacteria. (Vet’s Best Dog Toothbrush and Enzymatic Toothpaste Set | Teeth Cleaning and Fresh Breath Kit with Dental Care Guide| Vet Formulated is a great toothbrush and toothpaste) I’ve been feeding my puppy raw for a year now and noticed tremendous results. I will never revert to kibble again.
My vet strongly advised me not to go raw and at the same time tried to push Royal Canon on me. The same dog food that nearly killed my last dog.
One of my friends is a vet and she told me that they do not spend much time in school learning about raw. And whatever they did cover was all negative. I have yet to hear of a dog or puppy getting seriously ill from going raw.
I wouldn’t try to convince your vet otherwise, save your breathe. Just keep doing research and you will be fine and learn so much!
There are great website out there that give you a great breakdown on meat, fat, bone, and offal percentages you should be feeding your dog.

i wish you the best of luck!
P.s. I’ve worked in feed kitchens before and seen what goes into dog kibble, its quite alarming.

[joanne l]

HI Emma, I know how frustrating this can be. I heard Purina pro plan is great for picky eaters. It is not that bad of a food. I did hear some people saying their dogs were refusing Fromm, I know they changed their ingredients. This seems like a hard one. You can boil chicken and shred it up since he is a small dog you don’t need a lot. after you boil it you will have some broth and you can put it on their dry food. If you can avoid grain free right now I would. I don’t know of any other brand that will get him to eat. Picky eaters are hard to feed but you can try what I mentioned and see what happens. A friend of mine had the same problem she has a GSD and he would not eat dry dog food until she tried Purina Pro Plan. He loves it. Well I hope I helped a little.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by joanne l.

[Boyd M]

I would really like to know if they make any of this and if so by who?

[Connie I]

I have had giant breed Saint Bernards for 46 years and in four months will be adding a Caucasian Mountain Dog. They range from 180 to 204 lb . I have tried all different kinds of dog food and the best I have found and have used for a very long time is Fromm gold for large breed dogs. We don’t ever feed Saint Bernards puppy food when they’re little because it makes them grow too fast and it can cause issues in there joints later on in life. I do not have any throwing up of bile, we have no diarrhea, and they love it. We also feed Raw on top of the dry. My Saint Bernards live to be 12 and 13 years old and don’t really have any joint issues until there about 10. For anyone I would highly suggest Fromm gold large breed dog food. All you can do is try it for every individual dog by a small bag and go from there.

[Shanna J]

So my dog vomits if he eats any food or treats that contain chicken.
It’s hard to find because most treats have chicken of some sort and you can buy a beef dry dog food but they still have chicken in them if you look at ingredients. I have fed him Castor & Pollux organic grain free salmon and the Costco brand of beef grain free food.
I’m looking for recommendations for the best dry and/or wet dog food that completely chicken/poultry free. I don’t necessarily want a grain free food after the studies I’ve read lately.
I have a Pomeranian who is about 13lbs and 8 years old.
Suggestions please!

[Hanna G]

Recently My baby facing some dry skin and digestion problem. In this situation, I search on Google best dog food for dry itchy skin then I found an article where they mentioned Purina Pro Plan, Hill science etc is the best dog food for dry itchy skin. I picked the Purina Pro Plan and now my baby is feeling good and no issue. The article is attached here http://dogsensitiveskin.com/best-dog-food-for-dry-itchy-skin/

[joanne l]

I have to say to people on here that are new comers and are asking about grain free diets. I would like to say please don’t be fooled by the high protein gimmick on grain free diets. These foods are only high in protein due to the legumes and chickpeas and pea protein that make it that high. If they were taking out these legumes the protein would go way down. I hate that these companies use them to boost the protein. I have read that legumes have twice the amount of protein than grains. So I can’t stress it enough about these grain free foods. Here are some things I researched:
1 cup of chickpeas has 39 grams of protein
1 cup of lentils, it depends on dry or cooked, has 18 to 24 grams of protein
Pea protein doesn’t’ seem to say about the grams, but it is highly concentrated protein. to me is the worst.
Now, 1 cup of oatmeal has 6 grams of protein
1 cup of brown rice has 5 grams of protein
1 cup of cornmeal has 8 grams of protein
That just gives you an idea how grains can not boost protein percentages as much as legumes.
Food for thought. This is why I hate grain free diets for dogs. They charge more for cheap protein boosters. Not cool.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by joanne l.

[Hanna G]

Yes. Purina Pro Plan is a great food to keep Sensitive stomach and Skin. So I am feeding Best dog food for dry itchy skin (Purina Pro Plan) to keep the sensitive stomach and skin healthy.

[snowtigga]

Thanks, everyone!

We don’t free freed. However, if we don’t remember to pick up their bowls when they’re done (3 areas, 3 separate bowls), *someone* who shall remain nameless but is formally called Reggie, will occasionally go over and finish it for them.

I put these foods in my cart at chewy as possibilities. Didn’t Wellness have recalls?
I’m taking into consideration that because it’s labeled “senior” doesn’t mean it’s the best choice. I’m trying to keep with a 23%/11%/5% guideline that DFA (or somewhere) deemed as being good for a senior ratio.

I’ve also got my little dog to consider, too, and I’d rather not buy her different food than the boys if I can help it.

Health Extension Lite Chicken & Brown Rice Recipe Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag
VICTOR Senior Healthy Weight Dry Dog Food, 40-lb bag
Wellness Complete Health Senior Deboned Chicken & Barley Recipe Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag
Royal Canin Golden Retriever Adult Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag
Holistic Select Adult Health Chicken Meal & Brown Rice Recipe Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag
American Natural Premium Original Recipe Dry Dog Food, 40-lb bag
Dr. Gary’s Best Breed Holistic Senior Reduced Calorie Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag

I think for today we’re going to get a small bag of the Health Extension (Vet’s Choice). I like that they don’t have any recalls and that they’re a small family business. There’s not a lot of fruit/veggies but I’ve got to compromise on something since I don’t think there’s a dog food out there that has it all.

I also appreciate the personal recommendations as that goes a long way over the impersonal articles.

[snowtigga]

I wish I could answer that but, frankly, I’m not sure. My oldest (lab/shar-pei) is 7 and I had one vet tell me he was overweight and the other said he was fine. He’s about 69 pounds at the moment but he’s been having some joint issues lately so he’s moved around even less than he normally does. To say he’s energetic would be an absolute lie.

My middle dog is supposed to be around 4-5 (lab/aussie mostly) and he’s 85 lbs – he’s the one that could stand to lose weight and as gray as his face is, I often wonder if he’s not older than we were told.

The youngest is 5 years old, about 17 lbs. (chi/spaniel) and has more energy than the boys. She doesn’t have a weight problem nor is she considered a senior. I’m not sure how to handle her food needs if I switch to a senior food for the oldest.

None of my dogs go crazy for their food. They are accustomed to being fed three meals a day equal to the suggested servings on the food. The middle dog, Reggie, is the only one who will regularly eat his food but even lately he’s not been eating as he has in the past. The oldest dog, ShyGuy, and the youngest, Yoshi, will often leave meals and eat when they feel like it.

This may be more information than needed, I know. Ideally, I need Reggie to lose about 15 pounds and ShyGuy to lose 5 at most, I think, but I’m concerned that what they’re getting in the Whole Earth Farms may be too much for their lazier days. The HS food I was referring to is called “Holistic Select Senior Health Chicken Meal & Lentils Recipe Dry Dog Food”

The top senior dog foods listed on DFA all have the peas/potatoes listed and, yes, I’m trying to avoid those because of the most recent information about them.

The information out there is just so overwhelming.

I appreciate you taking the time to ask for clarification. Not sure if what I’ve provided helps or not.

/K

[Christine W]

My one Pug is 11,she runs like she is 5,i feed her Wellness reduced fat,it does have some of those ingredients,however? it is a 5 star food (dry) my 4 year old also eats it,when she wants.It also is not on the list linked to the heart problems with the taurine.

[Nan M]

I have been feeding my dogs these for over 40 years. There have been no issues. These are just short hairs from the dead animals that are in almost all pets foods, dry or moist.

[GSDsForever]

Hi Christine. Though I’ve never fed TOTW, I’m also in the same boat looking for a new food, in light of the latest safety information re DCM.

I personally would not feed another GF formula, from another implicated company on the list (Earthborn) — even though this one does not appear to contain legumes or potatoes. I just think it is an unnecessary risk. And the carb base (tapioca/pumpkin) is still relatively more novel, less traditional and proven safe.

Re joanne’s recommendation, I can tell you that I also am considering the Holistic Select fish formula (Anchovy, Sardine, & Salmon) — though in my case, the vets and I are going to have to move my girl to any change in protein (for her) with a lot of supervision/planning, thought. She’s had pretty extensive & damaging/threatening allergic reactions and that’s scary.

I’ll share what I know re HS.

This HS line has existed for 20 yrs, and Eagle Pack (its sister company that it split off from), since 1970. Neither company has ever had a recall or major safety incident. They now are under Wellpet (Berwind family corporation), with Wellness, though operating rather independently.

HS exclusively uses its own manufacturing plant in Mishawaka, Indiana (dry food). (Cans are made by Simmons.)

HS informed me that they have a full time nutritionist on staff who formulated all the foods and remains involved. I asked if it was a veterinary nutritionist, i.e. board certified as DACVN. I was informed by phone that it is a PhD in animal nutrition. (I probably will follow up in writing to confirm and clarify.)

HS readily provided me with amounts of Taurine, prescursors Methionine & Cysteine. They stated that they have had no cases reported to them or to the FDA of DCM/heart issues from those feeding their foods.

The base looks good, as pretty traditional with primarily rice (brown and white) and oats, with a little pumpkin at #10. (Flaxseed rounds out the carb base at #8. ) They noted that 69% of the formula’s protein is animal protein (fish). Aside from the of course wild sourced sardines & anchovy, the salmon (#5 ingredient) is 96% wild and less than 4% farmed with their efforts being to have 100% wild caught fish in their formulas.

If I feed or include this formula, I would be adding sardines boosting the protein/fat and contributing some fresh/real food, along with continuing my rx’d therapeutic dosing of EPA/DHA via the wild Alaskan salmon oil I add to the food. (I use & recommend Grizzly’s brand.)

joanne, just fyi, the Annamaet GF formulas, and specifically the Aqualuk, were implicated in the FDA incident reports, and contains concentrated peas & legumes. The company was much less cited . . . which may speak well of the company . . . but still. I’d steer clear of their GF legume base formulas.

[anonymous]

https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-small-breed-adult-gold-food-for-dogs
Fromm has several grain inclusive formulas.

Kibble does nothing to clean teeth. If the dog needs a professional dental cleaning I would get it done then just brush the teeth once a day, ask the vet tech to demonstrate if you don’t know how. Or check youtube.

You can presoak dry food in water in the fridg for a few hours, or just add a generous amount of water to the kibble prior to serving the dog will lap up the water to get to the food.
Don’t free feed (leave food down all day)
Or you could mix the kibble with a little canned food and add water.
Serve 2 or 3 small meals per day.
I would not rotate foods, that may cause GI upset in a senior dog.

[Mia F]

We’re trying to balance a bunch of different concerns with my 14/15 year old shih tzu/jack russell’s food. We’re worried about her teeth and for this reason one vet recommended we stick with kibble. But we’re also concerned about the possibility that she could developed kidney issues, for this reason we want to make sure her food isn’t dehydrating her. (I’ve heard some troubling stuff about kibble, but I’m not an expert at all.) After the recent FDA report we switched from Earthborn to Hollistic Select’s chicken and rice kibble. That’s what she’s eating as of now.

I’m wondering if we should consider rotating foods. If so, should we do wet or dry? Are there ways to supplement kibble to fix any dehydration issues?

[pat c]

Hello. We have a 4 year old medium sized mixed breed who’s not particularly active and probably about 2-4 pounds overweight, but otherwise in good health. We’ve been feeding “Merrick Classic Real Chicken + Green Peas Recipe with Ancient Grains Adult Dry Dog Food” for the past couple of years and she’s doing very well on it. Normal/solid poops, coat looks good, very little eye discharge etc. But with the recent FDA reports and seeing that it’s high in peas, it seems like it’s a good idea to either rotate or try something else. It’s still listed as 5 stars though which confuses me.

I’d sincerely appreciate any advice on where to go among the following:

* Annamaet Ultra – The description says this is for performance dogs (which ours clearly isn’t), however the other Annamet products aren’t 5 stars like this one. How should that be evaluated?

* Farmina N&D Ancestral Grain Chicken & Pomegranate Medium & Maxi Adult Dry Dog Food

* Dr. Tim’s All Life Stages Kinesis Formula Dry Dog Food -Only 4 stars though

* Eagle Pack Original Chicken Meal & Pork Meal Formula Dry Dog Food – Only 4 stars

Was also looking at CANIDAE All Life Stages Chicken Meal & Rice Formula Dry Dog Food and Wellness Complete Health. I’m open to other ideas as well.

1. Based on the description above, which of these (or others) make the most sense?
2. How should the Annamet Ultra be evaluated if it’s more highly rated but she’s not a performance dog?
3. Should the Merrick remain in the rotation or be removed due to the peas? It’s still listed as 5 stars.

Thank you so much for any guidance. This is all very overwhelming! 🙂

PS – No foods including fish please. She seems to vomit everytime we give her anything that includes salmon or whitefish.

[joanne l]

Patricia that is what I do, I feed raw red meat and dry food. So I do give less dry food b/c it is not the only thing he eats. He is a GSD so I can’t do just homemade. I also cook chicken and I rotate with tuna. So I kind of do both fresh food and dry food. But as far as grains go it is still not high in protein like legumes and peas. I feel like a broken record myself. LOL I stress so much how grain free is nothing but a boost of pea protein. I looked up protein in legumes and peas and chickpeas vereses barley, wheat, corn, rice, oatmeal. And the finding was that legumes, peas and chickpeas have higher protein content. This is not just an opinion it is a fact. It is not that hard to figure out why the protein in grain free is higher. I know you know this when you seen the ingredients on the foods you mentioned. So I think some good fresh meat and a good grain in dry food is a good choice. But if people can feed just fresh of course that is the best way to go.

[joanne l]

I would change the diet. I have heard a lot about this and most of the time, not all the time, when a diet was changed it resolved. My GSD have anal gland issues on one of the Pro Plan dry foods, when I changed his diet it went away after a couple of weeks. So I knew for sure it was his diet. I put him on Holistic Select dry food it is very good food. So I would change the diet and do it slowly mixing old and new food over 10 days or so. I have a feeling it will help.
Also which is weird b/c my friend has a golden retriever and she is on Pro Plan shredded chicken and is having the same problem! To weird.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by joanne l.

[Candice F]

I am maintaining a list of dry dog foods without peas, legumes, potatoes, corn, wheat or byproducts. If you know any that should be added to the list, let me know. https://www.seviernewsmessenger.com/2019/07/14/best-dog-food-without-peas-legumes-potatoes/

[Susan]

Hi Ashley,
sounds like he had bad acid reflux, what he had eaten for breakfast was still in stomach not digested properly & it would of smelt awful so imagine the taste when he brought it up, you should of let him eat some grass not much about 1 mins worth or gave 1 piece of very brown dry toast. .. or give ant acid med Zantac/Pepcid, or 5ml liquid Mylanta would of relieved discomfort straight away…
Why Magnus wanted to eat & eat was to take away the acid taste in his throat & the bad taste after vomiting acid & undigested food that came up his esophagus, bad acid reflux can cause stomach ulcers, burn throat/esophagus & wind pipe when bad..
Next time this happens do you have liquid Mylanta, get small bottle keep in the fridge give him 5mls in a 20ml syringe this helps straight away, then after 20-30mins give him a few plain dry biscuits, or white breed made into toast cut in pieces, or buy Slippery Elm Powder make into a slurry..
Put 1/2 a teaspoon slippery Elm powder in a cup, boil the jug, then slowly add boiling water & stir quickly till you make a slurry, don’t make it too thick cause you need to pull up into a syringe.. you make it thin but not too thin or thick, you don’t make a paste…
Give Slippery Elm Slurry when dog has nausea, has just vomited to line his esophagus & stomach, when he’s mouth licking, swallowing, has upset stomach or diarrhea..

With kibble you don’t want Protein % too low under 25% as the carb % goes up when protein & fat is low low.. High carbs can cause acid reflux as well.. I feed 25% + Protein, 13% max -Fat & Fiber-5% max, Carbs -30% & under.

Have a look at “Wellness Core Large Breed Adult” Patch does really well on Wellness Core L/B & Canidae Pure Wild formula’s for his Acid reflux…
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-large-breed-large-breed
Wellness have their “Wellness Simple” formula’s, Patch did well on the Simple Turkey & Potato kibble, I have found Patch does best on Potato Grain Free diets for his acid reflux you just have to work out what agrees best with your dog
Also be careful with Omega Oils, Fish Oil, Salmon, Oil, Coconut Oil, Linseed Oil these oils can cause acid reflux, same with high fiber diets, some of the low fat weight management kibbles are high in fiber low in fat.. make sure you check the fiber stay under 6%
also High Kcals kibbles are very dense & harder to digest, so stay under 370Kcals per cup

also feed 3-4 smaller meals a day, so his stomach isn’t empty too long
I feed 7am, 12pm, 5pm & a very small meal 7-8pm-1/4 a cup kibble..

Here’s the Wellness range, its often on special this is when I buy it, when I have my 25% off voucher.

For Dogs

Here’s the” Acid Reflux in dogs” F/B group, Acid Reflux is very common in dogs, my vet said she see at least 1-2 cases a week, owners don’t know what wrong or happening with their dog.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1635198406751056/

[anonymous]

Make sure your dog is drinking water. I would add a little to her dry food she will have to lap it up to get to the kibble.

[Ashley D]

So I took my Magnus (almost 2 year old boxer) to the vet today. He had been perfectly fine until about 1pm after our groomer left. He burped up this brown, awe full smelling liquid and had been trying to lick and eat everything he could get his paws on. He was sitting there, swallowing, lapping, licking for about an hour when the whining started. The vet didn’t necessarily diagnose him with anything…she just told me it wasn’t bloat and didn’t seem like an obstruction. She gave him a cerenia injection and sent me home with instructions to feed him a bland diet for a few days. We got home and he was better, for about four hours. Now, more than 12 hours later, he is sleeping. But he has been waking up all night to these episode of frantic licking/swallowing/lapping/gulping.

My vet seems to think his food might be too rich for him, and suggested I look for a grain inclusive, low fat, lower protein food. Switching my dogs’ food is always so overwhelming and stressful, because I want to make a good responsible choice for their wellbeing, and not just pick whatever popular food is out there.

Any suggestions on a good quality, grain inclusive, low fat, low protein dry kibble? It has to be dry for a couple reasons. 1) he is 70 lbs and I think I would go broke feeding him raw, freeze dried, or wet fooods. 2) he has a tendency to scarf his food down. I’ve tried slow feeders, but he outsmarts them every time…so I hand feed him, like a bird to ensure that he chews and takes his time eating.

Thanks in advance,

Ashley (a concerned, sleep deprived dog mom)

[Susan]

Hi Sandy,
Here’s Dog Food Adviser 20 Best Dry Dog Foods list, he emailed to all DFA people who have subscribe to get mail, I got this last week after FDA release the 16 brands that “MIGHT” be associated with DCM..
/best-dog-foods/best-dry-dog-foods/?fbclid=IwAR1wJpUuDSSibm42V_A9GMalYW4_z1E91NFy1q01NAzf_GItd81nZBTwB1Q

Have a look at “Canidae Pure Formula’s” the Pure formula’s have limited ingredients & DFA has the Canidae Pure Sea on his best 20 foods list…… I rotate & feed Pure Meadow Senior & Pure Wild Pork when on special, Canidae has jumped in price in Australia..
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

[malinda r]

my dog has a sensitive stomach, and I feel this might be due to extensive antibiotics and fast kill heartworm method. when I adopted him he had advanced heartworm…and the year following treatment he had stomach issues that seemed to meet the criteria for colitis.
3 years later and he is doing very well, occasional flare ups that usually coincide with medication/vaccinations and sometimes just stress. (the 4th of july for instance!!)
he has done well on fromm, he liked pork and applesauce…he does well on Carna4 chicken, Stella&chewys chicken, health extension lamb canned. I have noticed when his diarrhea starts if I limit dry food and use more toppers, freeze dried, canned, and home cooked foods he usually returns to normal within a day or two. kibble is convenient but seems hard for our dog to digest when his stomach is distressed.

i noticed he did poorly on foods higher in beet, chicory root, exotic meats.

[joanne l]

Hi Patricia now a days I agree you can’t trust companies completely. However, years ago my other GSD ate the same dry food his whole life and I never had a problem. But now I don’t know. I ran into sooo many problems with dry food you can’t image. From changing formulas to inconsistently in the kibble you name it. And every time I got inconsistent kibble my dog knew it was different he would smell it and look at me. And when he ate it he got diarrhea. I am so sick of these companies, every time I get a good kibble and he is doing well, I will get a bag either different in color or size and diarrhea again. So I do change foods for that reason.

[anonymous]

Also, if you soak the dry kibble in water and leave in the fridg overnight it will be soft in the morning and you can add a little more water to it too. The can food has more moisture so ask your vet if this is an option?

[Sanne]

Canned food is typically much more expensive to feed than dry food. I would ask your vet to switch him to the dry version and you can put it in a food processor to turn it into a powder, then mix some warm water to it. It’s a little bit more work but worth it if cost is an issue.

[joanne l]

HI Scott I was using natures Instinct can food and my dog got sick. So now I cook for him and give him his dry food. It is better to make your own moist food. I had so much trouble with can food you can’t imagine. I don’t feed the raw dog food I am afraid too, so I give him raw meat when it is on sale and it is cheaper than the raw dog food.

[lynne l]

Hi,

My 15 year old 50 lb. mutt has just been diagnosed with kidney disease which I understand is common in older dogs. I switched to HILLS PRESCRIPTION DIET FOR KIDNEYS. Is this any better than any other low protein diet?

Does anyone have any good homemade recipes for low protein diets? I used to feed rice or barley mixed with a good dry food; they thrived on this. Also, I pressure cooked chicken to where the bones squash really soft and mix ed with rice or barley? Anyone have a clue how much protein that might contain? I know as a meat-based protein, it’s probably higher than plant based diets. Any tips on low protein plant proteins I could use instead of chicken? Thanks, Lynne

[email protected]

[Patricia A]

Robert since kibble is a VERY small portion of my dogs’ diet I can’t make a suggestion if you feed this exccluviley. I only use as a base and I always rotate with at least two manufactors/brands as well as different proteins/flavors. No problems with digestion since I do it VERY slowly. When I’m about 1/4 done with one bag I start introducing a few kibbles of the new one. I use toppers always. Be it boiled chicken, lean steak if they’re lucky that day lol, string beans, boiled fish if we have such as salmon . Didn’t catch any keepers on the party boat or they would have enjoyed some fresh Fluke. Watermelon is their favorite. Don’t be afraid of giving real food as a topper for kibble also. A little at a time to see how well he does.
Most of the time they get a topper of Primal. I stick to the 5* lower in fat.NO legumes or potatoes in Primal. https://primalpetfoods.com/collections/canine-raw-freeze-dried-formulas. Some dogs are prone to pancreatitis with the higher fat proteins. I use turkey/Sardine, Duck, rabbit at times in the freeze dried. Just break up and moisten with warm water and add the dry kibble on the side. Again I started with a little piece and GRADUALLY added each to my rotation. I use Stella Chewy’s https://www.stellaandchewys.com in rotation freeze dried again in turkey, chicken and venison blend. All 5* by the advisor. NO LEGUMES or potatoes in their freeze dried. They have a very popular f/b page and pets are doing very well with these freeze dried toppers.I feel good about giving variety and my Chihuahuas’ are healthy on exams. Hope this helps .

• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.

[Robert B]

In light of the most recent update issued regarding FDA CVM’s Investigation between the relationship between diet and canine heart disease (DVM), I decided to review the 500+ case reports from the 5-year period studied. The published incidence rate including breeds with a genetic propensity for DCM is estimated to be between 0.1-0.2%.

We own a 9-1/2 year old, neutered Australian Shepherd who we have been feeding Orijen dry foods all of his life. When I look at Orijen (we feed Adult, Regional Red & Senior) I see lugumes and pulses, but well down the ingredient list by weight. That said, there a dozen cases of DCM associated with the brand. I do realize that the incidence rate is influenced on how widely a food is selling.

There were 10 case reports of Australian Shepherds (the summary shows n=13 but I could not find them) and DCM out of the 515 canine cases reported (or about 2%). The observed rate out of the dog’s within the cases is > 10x the general population rate for ALL dogs. This struck me as not happening by “chance”.

I reviewed the listed dog foods fed to the Australian Shepherds and then looked into what their current top 10 ingredients for legumes, pulses and tubers:

Case 1) Nature’s Recipe Easy to Digest Fish meal and Potato recipe dry dog food: Potatoes
Case 2) Zignature Kangaroo and Lentil: Peas, Chickpeas, Pear Flower, Red Lentils, Green Lentils
Case 3) Fromm Pork and Pea: Peas, Chickpeas, Pea Flower, Pea Protein, Sweet Potatoes
Case 4) Blue Buffalo wilderness natures evolutionary diet with chicken and lifsource bits: Pea Protein, Peas, Pea Starch, Pea Fiber, Potatoes
Case 5a) Farmina N&D Pumpkin Formula Medium and Maxi: Pea Starch, Dried Pumpkin, Pea Fiber
Case 5b) Kirkland Natures Domain Salmon and Sweet Potato: Sweet Potatoes, Peas, Potatoes, Pea Protein, Potato Fibre
Case 5c) Kirkland Organic Chicken and Pea: Organic Peas, Organic Lentils, Organic Garbanzo Beans, Organic Sweet Potatoes, Organic Potatoes
Cases 6 & 7) Pine Forest Canine Recipe with Venison & Legumes – Taste of the Wild Pet Food: Garbanzo Beans, Peas, Lentils, Pea Protein, Pea Flour, Fava Beans
Case 8) Earthborn grain free (specific variety not declared): Peas, Pea Protein, Pea Starch, Chickpeas
Case 9) Hill’s Ideal Balance Grain Free Chicken and Potato: Potatoes, Yellow Peas, Pea Protein, Potato Starch
Case 10) Acana (all flavors except Chicken or Lamb): Whole Red Lentils, Whole Pinto Beans, Whole Green Peas, Whole Green Lentils, Whole Chickpeas

I see a consistent use of legumes or tubers as ingredients among these foods (including Hills!). I work in R&D and while I agree the root cause may not be fully understood and the rates shown in the pareto chart are biased by how widely used a food is I can see why the Agency sent out the notification. Given the > 90% rate in the reported cases of grain free, legume formulated foods, I have made the decision to move our Australian Shepherd to a new dry food. So I have been trying to identify high quality grain inclusive dry foods to replace Orijen. So far I have identified:

Farmina:
N&D Ancestral Grain Chicken & Pomegranate Senior Mini & Medium
N&D Ancestral Grains Grains Chicken & Pomegranate Senior Medium & Maxi

Fromm:
Adult Gold
Reduced Activity Senior Gold

Nature’s Logic:
Canine Beef Meal Feasts
Canine Chicken Meal Feasts
Canine Lamb Meal Feasts
Canine Turkey Meal Feasts

NutriSource
Performance
Adult
Lamb Meal & Rice
Beef & Rice

We will begin to titrate him off Orijen onto some of these foods. We will first buy small bags to see how he a) likes them and b) his stool quality and general energy/health.

Do any of you have any experience with these foods or have any other suggestions for me to consider?

[Robert B]

In light of the most recent update issued regarding FDA CVM’s Investigation between the relationship between diet and canine heart disease (DVM), I decided to review the 500+ case reports from the 5-year period studied. The published incidence rate including breeds with a genetic propensity for DCM is estimated to be between 0.1-0.2%.

We own a 9-1/2 year old, neutered Australian Shepherd who we have been feeding Orijen dry foods all of his life. When I look at Orijen (we feed Adult, Regional Red & Senior) I see lugumes and pulses, but well down the ingredient list by weight. That said, there a dozen cases of DCM associated with the brand. I do realize that the incidence rate is influenced on how widely a food is selling.

There were 10 case reports of Australian Shepherds (the summary shows n=13 but I could not find them) and DCM out of the 515 canine cases reported (or about 2%). The observed rate out of the dog’s within the cases is > 10x the general population rate for ALL dogs. This struck me as not happening by “chance”.
I reviewed the listed dog foods fed to the Australian Shepherds and then looked into what their current top 10 ingredients for legumes, pulses and tubers:

Case 1) Nature’s Recipe Easy to Digest Fish meal and Potato recipe dry dog food: Potatoes
Case 2) Zignature Kangaroo and Lentil: Peas, Chickpeas, Pear Flower, Red Lentils, Green Lentils
Case 3) Fromm Pork and Pea: Peas, Chickpeas, Pea Flower, Pea Protein, Sweet Potatoes
Case 4) Blue Buffalo wilderness natures evolutionary diet with chicken and lifsource bits: Pea Protein, Peas, Pea Starch, Pea Fiber, Potatoes
Case 5a) Farmina N&D Pumpkin Formula Medium and Maxi: Pea Starch, Dried Pumpkin, Pea Fiber
Case 5b) Kirkland Natures Domain Salmon and Sweet Potato: Sweet Potatoes, Peas, Potatoes, Pea Protein, Potato Fibre
Case 5c) Kirkland Organic Chicken and Pea: Organic Peas, Organic Lentils, Organic Garbanzo Beans, Organic Sweet Potatoes, Organic Potatoes
Cases 6 & 7) Pine Forest Canine Recipe with Venison & Legumes – Taste of the Wild Pet Food: Garbanzo Beans, Peas, Lentils, Pea Protein, Pea Flour, Fava Beans
Case 8) Earthborn grain free (specific variety not declared): Peas, Pea Protein, Pea Starch, Chickpeas
Case 9) Hill’s Ideal Balance Grain Free Chicken and Potato: Potatoes, Yellow Peas, Pea Protein, Potato Starch
Case 10) Acana (all flavors except Chicken or Lamb): Whole Red Lentils, Whole Pinto Beans, Whole Green Peas, Whole Green Lentils, Whole Chickpeas

I see a consistent use of legumes or tubers as ingredients among these foods (including Hills!). I work in R&D and while I agree the root cause may not be fully understood and the rates shown in the pareto chart are biased by how widely used a food is I can see why the Agency sent out the notification. Given the > 90% rate in the reported cases of grain free, legume formulated foods, I have made the decision to move our Australian Shepherd to a new dry food.

So I have been trying to identify high quality grain inclusive dry foods to replace Orijen. So far I have identified:

Farmina:
N&D Ancestral Grain Chicken & Pomegranate Senior Mini & Medium
N&D Ancestral Grains Grains Chicken & Pomegranate Senior Medium & Maxi

Fromm:
Adult Gold
Reduced Activity Senior Gold

Nature’s Logic:
Canine Beef Meal Feasts
Canine Chicken Meal Feasts
Canine Lamb Meal Feasts
Canine Turkey Meal Feasts

NutriSource:
Performance
Adult
Lamb Meal & Rice
Beef & Rice

We will begin to titrate him off Orijen onto some of these foods. We will first buy small bags to see how he a) likes them and b) his stool quality and general energy/health before settling on a new rotation of foods.

Do any of you have any experience with these foods or have any other suggestions for me to consider?

• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Robert B.

[connie n]

i am so confused ..my little 6 lb 8yr old yorkie had stones 6 rs ago
the vet removed the stones they were. dtruvite stones and vet put her on royal canin urinary so dry ..people are telling me to put her on a
primal diet ..it is really necessary to keep her on prescription food

[joanne l]

I am really worried about my dog. He loves to eat, however he is refusing foods. I called the vet and he is going to take a urine test and blood work. I am really upset. He spits out the pro plan dry food, and now only eat a mouth full of my beef and rice. Drinking a lot of water and peeing a lot.

[Sandy C]

I feed my 3 year lab Acana Duck and Pear as this seems to be the only product that does not affect his allergies, but listed on your sight it is listed as the highest in reports – what are some other food choices in the dry formula that do not have Chicken, chicken meal, or chicken fat in them – this has been my dilemma. And would be nice if this is something I could afford.
Thank you.

[Patricia A]

FDA Update to DCM Investigation clarifies a few things

Pet owners have – previous to this June 2019 FDA update – been told far too many times that the cases of DCM were directly linked to boutique brands of pet food. Thanks to this FDA update we know that information wasn’t very accurate. The U.S. leaders in pet food sales are Mars, Purina, General Mills, Smuckers and Diamond; all listed with high numbers of FDA DCM reports.

Pet owners have also been repeatedly told – previous to this June 2019 FDA update – that exotic protein ingredients were directly linked to cases of DCM. This update proves that information wasn’t very accurate either. The FDA provides this information on protein types linked to DCM cases:

What would have been a proper investigation by FDA (but hasn’t been discussed thus far), is determination of the quality of the Chicken, Lamb, Salmon and so on ingredients of each pet food.

Example: when “Chicken” is listed on a pet food label ingredient panel – the ingredient can be USDA inspected and passed chicken, USDA inspected and condemned chicken, whole chicken, chicken bones (no meat), chicken skin (no meat) and/or a slew of other types of chicken.

Also, the FDA did not clarify if in the above chart “Chicken” or “Lamb” is chicken or chicken meal or lamb or lamb meal which have quality variations as well.

It would be very telling information for pet owners to learn the quality of the animal protein ingredients used in the pet foods reported to FDA. (FDA did not allow us – Association for Truth in Pet Food – to participate in their investigation as they did Pet Food Institute. We certainly would have asked for that investigation if they would have allowed us.)

The FDA also released data of common ingredients used in the pet foods linked to DCM reported to the Agency.

Another interesting perspective that FDA failed to determine (or at least failed to provide pet owners) would have been to determine what percentage of each of these diets were peas or lentils or potatoes (or the combination). Such as, were some of the reported brands using 30% peas and lentils, 40%, 50%? This again would be very telling information that would benefit pet owners (though clearly it would not be beneficial to manufacturers for pet owners to know).

FDA also provided an update to the types of pet foods involved.

Dry/kibble pet foods remain the leading style of pet foods linked to DCM.

FDA mentioned in numerous places of their update how they continue to work with industry. As reminder, we have been provided evidence that the FDA was working with industry long before they even notified pet owners of their investigation.

While the June 2019 update is information and is of value, it remains fact that more than 1 year into this investigation pet owners are left with little assistance to protect their pets. While we wait for answers, FDA continues to allow pet food to violate federal law, continues to allow waste to be disposed of into pet food with no warning or disclosure to pet owners, continues to facilitate a means for AAFCO to own the legal definitions and regulations of pet food keeping pet owners in the dark about their pet food purchases.

• This topic was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.

[joanne l]

Patricia peas and lentils are most prominent on the FDA site. Look at the chart and you will see. Also it said dry food not can I believe.
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/news-events/fda-investigation-potential-link-between-certain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy
Anyway some dogs are getting DCM from the food and some maybe don’t. With that why take a chance. And who knows what this will mount up to, my vet just recommended that I don’t use grain free for now.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by joanne l.

[haleycookie]

@patricia. Some foods like dr elseys cat food and essence pet foods use things like agar agar or gelatin to bind the foods. Making it an optimal low low car dry food. However it’s incredibly expensive as well

However this particular food is loading up on carbs grains to hold the food together. It’s just a run of the mill lower quality grain food.

[Dean S]

Dogs are not vegans. That said, having green beans, pumpkin, peas (all soft and cooked people not raw from garden) are a safe FILLER.

Dogs need meat and fish. Lentils? Legumes of any kind? Even humans do not consume these well.

That being said, the FDA “hit list” does not have one brand by the BIG BOYS such as Purina, Iams, Science Diet (Purina I believe) and let’s all remember, just like our food supply, the big grocers and major global companies are doing their best to control and lord over our food supply. They do the same with pet food.

Also if you feed your dog 100% dry kibble, grain free or otherwise and they are NOT ACTIVE, that kibble sits in gut half digested. Just like someone drinking Gatorade and eating bread all day, sitting on the couch and no working out, you get FAT.

We have 4 dogs, I walk them every day at least 1 mile, and they have Only Natural Pet Power Fusion kibble as 1/4 their meal rest I make.

Many have purchased “designer dogs’ have them in a tiny apartment, walk perhaps a few times a week tops, leave them home alone while they are at work, and feed them the latest and greatest fashionable dog food. Dogs need to RUN and play every day and they are carnivores.

It’s really that simple.

[Sarah B]

I feed my mixed breed dog Zignature Kangaroo. I’m concerned after reading the recent FDA investigation into the correlation between diet and Canine Dilated Cardiomyopathy. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/news-events/fda-investigation-potential-link-between-certain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy#diet
The study indicates a link between grain-free diets and DCM. The brands listed are many of the brands recommended on Dog Food Advisor for quality. What suggestions do you have in light of this study? Is it worth reevaluating our dog’s diet? The blogs I’ve read so far on the subject are calling Zignature/Orijen/etc “fad diets” and telling readers to return to Purina. Are those literally the only options for those who feed their pets dry food?

[Joseph G]

The FDA has released an update, detailing for the first time the brands with the most problems associated with them. The brands with at least 10 reported cases follow, but many other smaller brands are named in the full report:
1. Acana
2. Zignature
3. Taste of the Wild
4. 4 Health
5. Earthborn Holistic
6. Blue Buffalo
7. Nature’s Domain
8. Fromm
9. Merrick
10. California Natural
11. Natural Balance
12. Orijen
13. Nature’s Variety
14. NatruSource
15. Nutro
16. Rachel Ray Nutrish

91% of cases involved Grain-Free foods. 93% used pulses in their formulation. Most were dry food. More cases were observed in males than females. Animal protein source was from many different sources.

Golden retrievers tens to be prone to taurine deficiency and were the breed most affected, but amino acid profiles in the food were all normal. No other nutrient abnormalities have been found so far.

More information is here, but the cause is still unknown: https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/news-events/fda-investigation-potential-link-between-certain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy

• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Joseph G.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Joseph G.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Joseph G.

[Julie F]

I have a ancient Great Dane ~11-12 (rescue so don’t know her true age). Since we adopted her in 2011 she has only ever eaten TOTW Wetlands and 4Health Large Breed (50/50 Mix). I researched/compared these foods to a great extent (long before there was much out here) against the popular “now” recommended foods. My dearly beloved ancient Great Dane does not have DCM. We recently, in the last 2 weeks, rescued another Great Dane (~4 YO). The vet at the rescue informed me of the DCM issues. We are in a quandry since the rescue was feeding Nutrisource. We have switched the newest members (the 4YO GD was a bonded pair to a little mix breed dalmation – we adopted both) to TOTW. The little guy (73#) only likes the Nutrisource, not the TOTW. The ancient GD quit eating over a month ago and only recently started eating again on a regular basis – she loves the Nutrisource. Any thoughts/recommendations. Thinking of going with what I have done for the last 8 years. Seems to have worked since my ancient GD has lived what seems to be a double life. TYIA.

[joanne l]

Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone feeds this. I have been getting cans that are half full and cans that are soupy and very wet when it is a pate. The pate can food is usually solid, but now it is not. When I gave it to my dog he had diarrhea so I sent them all back to the store, plus he started drinking a lot of water and peeing a lot. If anyone uses this can you tell me if you were experiencing this? I found out that the can food is made by Simmons. I didn’t hear good things about Simmons so I am upset b/c he really enjoyed this can food. I am going to give fresh meats with his dry for now on. I never used can food for my other GSD, but this one LOVES can food. But I guess I will not use it anymore.

• This topic was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by joanne l.

[Owen J]

Wet food is given to the animal 1-2 times per day. Dry – twice a day in accordance with the recommendations for the volume of servings (as a rule, they are indicated on the package).
Mixing rations in one dish is not worth it – for each type requires a separate capacity. At the same time it is necessary to provide the pet with constant access to fresh water.
https://herepup.com/dog-training-collars-reviews/

[Owen J]

The optimum nutrient balance for the animal is achieved only by a combination of dry and wet food. The owner needs to ensure that the pet has the opportunity every day to have both kinds of rations.
https://herepup.com/best-dog-beds-for-older-dogs/

[Owen J]

Due to its texture, dry food has a positive effect on the condition of the dog’s mouth. Gnawing at the granules, the pet massages the gums and cleans the teeth from plaque. An important advantage of dry food is that it contains a large amount of fiber: once in the intestines of an animal, it stabilizes its performance.
https://herepup.com/abady-dog-food-reviews/

[Owen J]

Each type of food, both dry and wet, has its advantages and benefits the pet. However, only their combination gives the animal all the elements necessary for a full life, so the owner needs to be able to properly combine these diets.
https://herepup.com/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

[Owen J]

3-4 times a day, the puppy should be offered several pellets of dry food soaked in warm water to make it easier to eat. New foods should be offered before breastfeeding. In the early days of complementary foods it is especially important that the portions are small – this way the food is easier to digest by the digestive system. Complete transition to ready-made rations is completed at the age of 6-8 weeks.
https://herepup.com/honest-kitchen-dog-food-reviews/