[FreeholdHound]

Tripe Sale??? I gotta make room! Does my family REALLY need bread? And what are lamb trotter bones anyway?

[theBCnut]

I’m sure you have noticed that dry doesn’t really keep teeth clean, so if that’s the only reason for feeding it then take a pass. Balanced raw is best. It has fresh specie appropriate food sources. After that, freeze dried, then dehydrated, because they are less processed and are usually a good source of meat proteins. Next would be canned, it is heat damaged but it has appropriate moisture and it is less processed than kibble and less starch than kibble. Last is kibble which is high in carbs and very processed.

For dental health, try brushing and raw meaty bones.

[scottNY]

Wow, thanks HDM. I guess this is the last box of Greenies for this house. I can’t do raw bones [no outdoor space and I don’t want mice or roaches] but I will certainly look in to the natural chews. Does anyone have any feedback on the Smokehouse brand?

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you read the ingredient list you’ll see that Greenie’s are a highly processed and unhealthy product. MOst people recognize the importance of avoiding processed foods for themselves and their children, the same is true for dogs.

The ingredients are:

Wheat flour, glycerin, wheat protein isolate, gelatin, water, rice flour, oat fiber, pea protein, potato protein, lecithin, natural poultry flavor, apple pomace, tomato pomace, minerals (dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, magnesium amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid complex, iron amino acid complex, copper amino acid complex, manganese amino acid complex, potassium iodide), ground flaxseed, choline chloride, decaffeinated green tea extract, sodium copper chlorophyllin, vitamins (dl-alpha tocopherol acetate [source of vitamin E], vitamin B12 supplement, d-calcium pantothenate [vitamin B5], niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement [vitamin B2], vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride [vitamin B6], thiamine mononitrate [vitamin B1], folic acid)

These are basically grains (gluten containing grains nonetheless), vegetable proteins and synthetic vitamins/minerals/amino acids. Why not feed your dog some real food with dental benefits? Raw meaty bones or natural chews like pig ears, bully sticks or dried tracheas. If you insist on feeding a processed dental product I’d at least recommend checking out Zuke’s Z-Bones – while they’re by no means a health food, they’re much better (ingredient-wise) than Greenies.

[FreeholdHound]

I was looking at one of those – but I have no place to put it 🙁

[Cyndi]

Lol! It’s just a small 3.1 cu. ft. freezer, but it was on sale and I couldn’t resist. I got very tired of having to dig in my little fridge/freezer every time I needed to pull something out or having stuff fall out and almost break my foot. I am so glad I bought it. It has already been a blessing! 🙂

[sparkles1962]

I have a Jack Russell that I have had the same issues as the Mini-Pin. Had bladder issues years ago, and vet put her on urninary so. For years was throwing up on the food, not an issue for the vet. Then last year started with the pancreatitis. We have been working with a holistic vet, acupuncture, and herbal/homeopathic remedies. Amazing results. But, still working on it. I am now making her dog food. That really helps. I used Darwins raw food/chicken and duck. The only issue I had with that is the small bones, she was throwing those up and it was too costly.

My dog has a duality of chronic inflammatory pancreatitis that is creating damp phlegm in her kidneys and hence bladder stone issues. This is what the holistic vet is working on. It surprises me, that the regular vets don’t even know this. However, I am looking for a good nutritionist vet, for making the appropriate raw diet myself. There is someone online, that you can pay for this service (but I’m a little leary to give my personal info online)! Here is the information I found online, if you are interested. She had some good things to say, such as me feeding a natural diet that included sweet potato is not good for my dog because—if the stones she is forming are calcium oxalate, you should not be feeding sweet potatoes due to their content of oxalic acid. It is also vitally important for kidney health to have sufficient calcium in the diet to 1. meet the dog’s needs and 2. bind excess phosphorus, and in typical, supplemented diets this is usually severely deficient.
Looking online at dog diets with pancreatitis….is overwhelming!!!
— Sabine Contreras
Canine Care & Nutrition Consultant
Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines
BetterDogCare.com – DogFoodProject.com

[FreeholdHound]

Gift Certificate AND a freezer… Nom I’m really jealous !!!! 🙂

[Cyndi]

Yes I did! 🙂 It sure is going to come in handy too when I place my big order tomorrow. I just got a new freezer! Well, it’s only a little one, but I have more room now to stock up on stuff for Bailey AND actually have room for frozen stuff for me…..like ice cream!! Lol!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

You actually don’t want to feed vegetables raw. Dogs can’t digest the cellulose in vegetables very efficiently and for this reason they should be cooked and pureed to in a sense “pre-digest” them prior to feeding. The meat, bones and organs are what you would feed raw with a raw diet but if you’re not comfortable with feeding raw meat that’s certainly understandable. A cooked homemade diet is still much healthier than commercial pet food. My favorite books of those Sandy mentioned is “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” – while this is more aimed at raw feeders there are many principals discussed that are common to both raw and home cooked diets. The recipes could also easily be converted to cooked by omitting the bone-in meat, adding boneless meat and supplementing with 800 – 1,000 mg. calcium per pound of meat fed. My favorite pre-mixes are See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix and Urban Wolf. BTW – GOOD choice on going homemade. As Sandy said, it’s not something to be taken lightly but if you do your research and properly prepare the meals you will be setting your dog up for a long and healthy life! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Cyndi you won the gift certificate this month?! I’m so jealous!

[Cyndi]

Thanks everyone!! 🙂

[FreeholdHound]

Thanks Patty! Good to hear. Harry’s a confirmed Tripe addict it seems

[theBCnut]

Congrats on the win, Cyndi!! I never win anything either. Oxtail is good. And tripe strips are good for teeth. The acid, the enzymes, and the texture all work to help clean teeth.

[FreeholdHound]

Congratulations on the win Cyndi !!

[Cyndi]

Thanks Sandy! I never win anything, so I was very excited, lol! I don’t think I’ll be returning the quail. It was a bag of 4 & I only have one left. I don’t know anyone that lives near me who feeds raw, unfortunately & my “supplier” is just a small butcher shop who doesnt sell quail.

I could always try to cook it & eat it myself. Ha Ha!! I was definitely joking! 🙂

[SandyandMila]

Congrats to you!! Have you asked to see if you could return the quail Bailey didn’t eat, or suppliers nearby to you?

[Cyndi]

I won’t be doing any cows heads anytime soon, lol! BUT…. Hare Today does sell a bag of rabbit heads. I think I might be daring and try those out for Bailey. Too bad I can’t order a couple to see if she’ll even eat them first. I think she might like them though, considering how much she likes the rabbit.

Oh, and speaking of Hare Today!! I forgot to brag!! I won their $25 gift certificate giveaway for August!! Tracy emailed me on Sunday and told me. Yay Me!! 😀

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Cyndi.

[SandyandMila]

How about beef oxtail? I haven’t fed it yet but am also looking for an alternative to pork necks while their freezing for 3 weeks.

[FreeholdHound]

Neezerfan- yes I did go to L’Oreal event. It was fun & since I went early, not as hot as last year. Lots of vendors & dog groups. The lines were loooong for the freebies at the dog food companies but since Harry can’t eat most of them I didn’t have to deal with it. This was the 10th and final year for it, I don’t think their doing the smaller farm event in the fall either. 🙁

Cyndi- I’ll look into the rabbit pieces- Thanks. I ordered the Beef Gullet slices last time. They’re huge & he liked it. Trying the Tripe Strips frozen too although I’m not sure they’ll do anything for his teeth.

Sandy- A whole cows head? Oh Lord I don’t think I could handle that lol.

[neezerfan]

I mean that thin, pointy bone that’s in the leg. The secondary one. I didn’t know how else to describe it.

[Cyndi]

Neezerfan, raw bones don’t splinter. Only cooked bones do. Any bones from chicken or turkey are completely safe for dogs to eat. My dog has eaten a ton of chicken legs and she is just fine.

[neezerfan]

My 12 lb dog does absolutely fine with chicken thighs. No problem at all. I’m hesitant to give him the legs tho, because of that splintery bone that’s in there. FreeholdHound, was that the L’Oreal fund raiser you went to? How was it? I was considering going but it’s almost a 2 hour drive for me. Do you think it was worth going?

[Cyndi]

I’ve been using the rabbit pieces from Hare Today. Bailey loves them. I wanted something else to use in her rotation instead of chicken backs & feet & turkey necks. I don’t think I am going to do pork/pork necks with Bailey, I just don’t have the freezer space to freeze them for 3 weeks before I feed them. I am glad I went with the rabbit. It is a bit more expensive, but I only feed it every 3rd day for dinner.

I had started using the whole dressed quail from Hare Today, but Bailey decided she didn’t like them anymore. She went on strike for dinner 2 days in a row because I gave her a quail, so I just don’t give her those anymore. Maybe she picked up my squeemish vibe and got grossed out like I was, lol! So, I have one quail left in my freezer that I don’t know what to do with….

[pugmomsandy]

I find pork necks at Kroger. Duck necks are about 6 to 8 inches long. The ones I get anyways. Bravo sells duck necks. Maybe you can buy one to test. Although my little 30 lb dog can scarf it down in 1 minute. I’ve seen cow heads at the Mexican supermarket. I’m sure he can’t gulp that.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[FreeholdHound]

Suggestions for turkey neck/chicken feet replacements? Trying to back off poultry a bit, but Harry loves his witchie hands and stands by my fridge after last turn out waiting for his snack. I want to keep giving bones for his teeth. Duck feet seem like a substitute for a snack. I’ve been told that duck necks may be too small for a large Greyhound. The pork necks ^^ sound interesting, I wonder where I can get them.

[FreeholdHound]

InkedMarie- so sorry to hear about your Boone. I’m feeling the same way tonight. Calling my Vet tomorrow to have Harry’s ear checked out. He also had a string of ear infections when I first got him- usually it’s his left ear. 3 months ago he had another one, and that’s what started my research and putting him on Natures Logic which is the only food I’ve found w/none of his trigger ingredients. I’ve started adding in raw & he’s been loving it all. I hope I haven’t pushed it too far by giving him raw chicken & turkey bones (triggers), he loves them so much & I want bones for his teeth. Feeling a bit depressed about it all also.

[Juana]

Hi,
I am trying to find information about the suppliers of animal by-products for Hill’s Pet Nutrition. I contacted the company and this was the answer I got:

“Chicken by-product meal consists of ground, rendered, wholesome parts of the chicken. It includes white meat, dark meat, liver and viscera. It is ground into a meal and the bones are extracted. The chickens are sourced from human grade USDA inspected processing plants.
Chicken by-product meal provides a high level of protein, is highly digestible and provides a lower level of mineral content to your pet’s food. It is a very tasty ingredient for both cats and dogs.
Hill’s sources raw materials only from countries where there are reliable safety procedures in place, primarily in the United States, Japan, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and several European countries. ”

So, nothing. I would appreciate any information about this issue. Thank you!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Sorry I somehow missed that post! I brush my dog’s teeth with a spin brush and use Vet’s Best dental gel. My dogs also get raw meaty bones daily. They both have super white teeth and odorless breath.

[pugmomsandy]

Besides brushing there are some products you can give daily:

ProDen PlaqueOff Dental Powder

Only Natural Pet All Smiles Oral Care Mouth Spray for Dogs & Cats

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/pet-dental-gel.aspx

I used ProDen for a month or two on one of my fosters with dragon breath while he was waiting to get a dental because he had to lose some weight first and it really seemed to help. I just bought some of the mercola gel but haven’t started using it yet. My dogs chew on bones and it keeps their teeth clean except for the very back tooth has a little bit of tarter. You can use the gels as toothpaste too.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[theBCnut]

http://nourishedkitchen.com/bone-broths-adrenals-bones-teeth/
I googled chinese medicine like supports like and this was the only one that was anything.

[DogFoodie]

Anyone ever use lamb trotter bones for recreational bones?

Opinions? : )

[pugmomsandy]

“What are good options to implement (such as veggies and fruits)?”

Toppers can be scrambled egg, sardines, raw meat, canned food, whatever you like it to be but the general rule is to not use more than 20% as a topper and try to use species appropriate toppers. As for veggies or fruit, use these in small amounts as dogs don’t need too much of them but they do contain nutrients and antioxidants, etc. Fruit has a lot of sugar so I don’t use much. When I make a homemade batch of food I don’t use more than 5% fruits, and 20% veggies. And actually my last batch of food, I didn’t put in any veg/fruit.

“What is the ratios?”

When talking about ratios, a couple things come to mind. First, the calcium to phosphorus ratio is important for large breed puppies. This affects their bone growth. Secondly, the prey model diet ratio of 80/10/10 of meat/bone/organs. Some recipe books have varying ratios.

“Generally how many times a day do people feed their kids?”

I feed twice a day, occasionally once a day. Some will fast their dogs one day a week.

“Are dairy products like cheese bad for dogs?”

It depends. If your dog is lactose intolerant, then yes. If it’s cheese from a cow that had antibiotics and growth hormones, yes it’s bad. I suggest a goat product like goat milk or goat milk kefir or cow product that came from free range cows that did not receive antibiotics or growth hormones. Products like full fat, no artificial sweeteners or colors yogurt has live cultures of beneficial organisms so it can help some dogs with digestive problems. Cottage cheese can be a good source of protein and is low in lactose (I think).

“What is the advantages of “bully bones/or marrow bones” vs rawhide bones?”

Rawhides are hard to digest and can cause blockages and the way they are processed can be problematic. Sometimes chemicals are used. And I think many of them come from China. Marrow bones aren’t processed and once the marrow has been taken care of, you can reuse the bone by stuffing it with something else and freezing it and giving it as a treat. Bully sticks can cause blockages too if they are gulped down. I usually take them away when they get small but gnawing on them helps clean the teeth. Cow hoof is another item that my dogs like to gnaw on.

[AJs4leggedkidsx4]

Hello!

I have read tons of your topics and responses. I must say that I have seen the light! My “Kids” are my world and I def have been doing them an injustice!

I hear about food fillers/kibble toppers I need more information.

What are good options to implement (such as veggies and fruits)?

What is the ratios?

Generally how many times a day do people feed their kids? (I feed mine a breakfast snack, but they do not eat dinner until I do in the afternoons) I should note that I have 4 kids, corgi/blue heeler/, TWIN German shepherd/pitbull mix and a applehead Chihuahua. The Chihuahua is on a calorie controlled diet. My kids are active and lean. I feed them 2 to 2 1/2 cups at meal time.

Are dairy products like cheese bad for dogs?

What is the advantages of “bully bones/or marrow bones” vs rawhide bones?

I am sure that I’ll more questions, but right now I need to get the basics down of a healthy diet.

Thank you all for your help!

AJ

[JLezinsky]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,

We have been wanting to switch our pup to a raw food diet for a while now. We have been doing tons of reading on this forum and research and decided to start with a pre-made raw mix while we figured out how to add more from scratch.

Last weekend at our local pet store the owners of Sirius Raw Dog Food (a small company from Ruby, NY) were out front talking about their product. I was wondering if anyone has heard or more importantly used their food? We decided to give it a try and start or 8 month old Catahoula (40 lbs) on it. We switched her cold turkey without any problem, in fact she went crazy for it. However, the more I read on this form the more excited I get about making good food for her, but at the same time the more overwhelming this starts to seem. Our biggest concern right now is that she is getting the proper nutrition and the correct amounts of food. Sirius told us that she will be good with 2% her body weight, about 1lb a day. And that everything she needs is in the food. We started giving her ½ lb twice a day. It has only been a few days and it is hard to tell if she’s hungry or just wants more because it is so good. Yesterday we increased her feeding to ¾ lb twice a day. Since she is only 8 months should she be giving her more than 2-3%? Sirius told us that she was considered an adolescent. I just want to get your opinion.

Also, should we be using any additional supplements while we stay on the Sirius pre-made mix? Should we be concerned about the calcium while on this?

I figured this was the best place to get answers. I appreciate any help you can give us.

Thanks,
Jon

There is not a lot of information on their site so I attached the nutritional info. that they had emailed to me. They have a few blends, a chicken, a beef, a turkey.

beef blend….Ingredients: Beef, Chicken Bones, Beef Heart, Beef Liver, Sweet Potato, Carrots, Zucchini, Romaine Lettuce, Spinach, Cilantro, Parsley, Ginger Root, Garlic
Guaranteed analysis: crude protein, min 16.00%; crude fat, min 14.00%, crude fiber, max 00.30%; moisture, max 64.00%

http://www.siriusrawdogfood.com

[beagleowner]

I get soup bones at the grocery store. They do not splinter but are hard as a rock. After our beagle removes the little bit of meat on the face of the bone and any inside meat residue, I spoon out all marrow and fill it with pumpkin, freeze it and give to him as a nightly treat. He cleans them out and knows on the bone itself. We have about 5 of them and when they have been filled 4 times I toss them and then get a new bone at the store to replace it. No problems at all.

[newmom]

In the past, I gave my dogs pig ears and calve hooves…the odor was terrible but they loved them. I’ve seen so many recalls for these and jerky, so I don’t know what to give Sgt. Charlie to chew on. He loves gnawing on bones but I fear for his teeth. I would like to give him dental sticks if they are safe. Sarge spent a couple of months on a huge real butchers bone but I finally took it away from him as the ends became jagged and I feared the pieces would cut or damage his intestinal tract, or worse! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[theBCnut]

There are a lot of Darwin’s fans here. Myself included, but none of us were willing to try it, except Losul. Dogs need the bits of bones in it, people don’t.

[Bill Rogan]

Hello!!! Beagleowner? Hope you feel better than before because your dog is gradually progressed.

You should bring diversification in you dog food menu. You should ensure that the diet you feed meets your dog’s requirements. It’s important that the diet you feed your dog is “complete and balanced,” meaning it meets all of your dog’s nutritional needs. It is not important, however, that every meal would be completed and balanced, unless you feed the same meal every day with little or no variation.

Following are the guidelines for feeding a raw or cooked homemade diet to get a healthy dog. No single type of food, such as chicken, should ever make up more than half the diet.

You should keep the followings in your consideration while cooking your dog food. Proper balanced dog food includes:

Meat and other Animal Products:

Raw meaty bones (optional)
Boneless meat
Fish
Organs
Eggs
Dairy

Fruits and Vegetables:

Starchy vegetables
Leafy green and other non-starchy vegetables
Fruits
Grains

Supplements:

Calcium
Oils
Fish oil
Cod liver oil
Plant Oils

Other Vitamins and Minerals:

Vitamin E
Iodine
Green blends

Hopefully you be benefited. Best of luck of you with your beloved dog.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sandy –

Throwing up bone occasionally is normal, especially when you’re first starting out on RMBs and your dog’s digestive system is still becoming accustomed to digesting the bone or when feeding denser RMBs or (more often) recreational bones. Many times they’ll puke up pieces and eat them right back up. Sounds gross, but it’s nothing to be alarmed about.

[SandyandMila]

At 3 am this morning, Mila threw up a piece of bone from the turkey neck she had yesterday, nothing else just the bone. And I’ve seen little pieces of bone in her crate also from other turkey necks she’s had this week. This was the first week of feeding the Hare Today turkey necks, I have fed the ones from the grocery store before with no issues. Her bowels were fine this morning small and firm, no bones in her poop. My question is, should I be concerned about the pieces hurting her throat? I still have a bag and a half of their turkey necks yet to feed, I don’t want to be worried they’ll hurt her. Should I grind them? I know they will lose their purpose of feeding an rmb, the carnivore instinct to crunch, pull, and chew but I really don’t want her to get hurt. What should I do? Thanks

[DogFoodie]

Hi guys!

HDM, what I mean by “menu” is, what should I order. LOL! I’ve been studying the website and am worried about keeping things complete and balanced and my overwhelming need to keep the process as simple as possible. My head is spinning….

Tracy suggested, based on what I said I’d like to feed them, was that I feed two to four boneless meals per week to balance the bone as I was asking her about using all whole carcass grinds all the time. She suggested filling up a 50 pound box rather than trying to order enough for a specific period of time and she was definitely right.

So, here’s what I have in my shopping cart:

12 x 1 lb. Ground Chicken / Bone / Organs
12 x 1 lb. Ground Turkey / Bone / Organs
12 x 1 lb. Ground Beef / Organs/ Tripe and Bones
14 x 1 lb. Ground Green Tripe with Spleen (Beef) (our two to four boneless meals each week)

What do you think of this?

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by DogFoodie.

[neezerfan]

Yeah,, that grinder’s not in my budget. The #8 is supposed to grind chicken, duck and rabbit bones but the instructions say specifically not to grind bones with this model. Confusing.

[pugmomsandy]

A commercial grinder at least 1 HP – runs around $500+. I use a Weston 22 and I can grind whole chickens, young ducks and turkeys and pork ribs and lamb ribs. I haven’t tried beef ribs as they are pretty hard and don’t want to possibly break the grinder! But they are really good gnaw/recreational bones. Cabela’s has some grinders too. I can buy most ingredients (heart/gizzard/kidney/spleen) for less $2 and depending on what kind of chicken you prefer, large bags of chicken thighs are $0.39/lb or organic chickens are $3+/lb. You can buy whole turkeys cheap after Thanksgiving and stock up. But you will need a freezer too! I’ve ground 100 lbs in 15 minutes before.

There’s a demo video here:

http://www.northcoastpets.com/barf_hardware.htm

[pugmomsandy]

I would just use the commercial grinder and get a refund on the smaller one! I grind poultry and pork ribs in my grinder as far as bones go. I like the 10 mm grinder plate best. The stuff comes out more like chili meat size instead of mostly mush.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_5170952x1024_zpsec466d4d.jpg

[SandyandMila]

Mila just had her first pork neck bones. No hesitation. Did take a little longer than her turkey neck/hearts yesterday but she seemed to enjoy it. Very crunchy! Hopefully her poops with be fine.

[FreeholdHound]

Thank you I will. For now I’m testing the turkey necks. He’s tolerated chicken feet for quite a while now. It’s the bones I’m most interested in for his teeth. Since he’s eating kibble/ raw I don’t feel any real urge to push it . He loves his beef, lamb, pork & sardines. I’ve given him bits of chicken now & again but I don’t do it frequently. Maybe for Thansgiving he’ll have some turkey 🙂

[beaglemom]

SandyandMila/HDM… haha I just had to comment on this (though I know it was awhile ago). HDM you must never have joined the “rawfeeding” yahoo group! They are “interesting” to say the least… I definitely come here first but here’s the lessons this list wants you to believe: dogs need zero supplements, ever; all dogs need to eat is meat meat meat (and a little bone and a little organs); bones don’t clean teeth, tearing at meat chunks does; necks of any sort have no place in the diet unless attached to the animal; ground meat is evil; veggies and fruits are evil; tripe is useless. LOL. I will join the “thank goodness i found this site” crowd and also to tie in to the topic of this thread, I am expecting my first Hare Today order on Wednesday and can’t wait!!! (And it includes duck necks!!!) 🙂

[FreeholdHound]

Posted on Hare Today thread… He was in Houndie heaven and sleeping it off…

[theBCnut]

It will probably revive him. 🙂