[Akari_32]

I think you did. I’ll go back and see if I can’t find it.

I think it would have to be pretty concentrated at first to get him to drink it. Do you think after a while i could like slowly ween him off meat-water, and have him start drinking normal water?

I think the cheapest cuts of meat are beef marrow bones, pig knuckles, turkey necks (when we have them), and then whatever livers we have laying around (turkey, chicken, beef, calf). Some times certain cuts of lamb goes on sale really cheap, and beef for stew, and whatever else. And they can break cases, so I could get just like *one* chicken leg, or a 1/4 pound of beef, or whatever. I could certainly have fun with it.

So I just cook the meat, then add it to a bowl of water, and let it sit? Sounds easy enough! How long should I let it sit, do you think?

I’m not completely avoiding fish, but I don’t want him to have it on a regular basis. Some of his cans of Wellness have fish, but its worked out so that he only gets Wellness ever other day, and the fish ones about every other Wellness feeding. You should see how OCD-y I have the cat food cabinet arranged. It’s pretty sad LOL

[Bobby dog]

On making the flavored H2O, I would try making flavored H2O out of anything that is good for cats, but I wouldn’t feed my cat a canned broth due to the ingredients or broth made from a boullion cube for example.

I would and do make bone broths for my animals out of whatever meat goes on sale at the grocery store. I brew my recipe for 24 hours in a crock-pot which my family gets mad about because I am cooking for my pets not them. lol

I am not sure if you like to cook, but you could get some meat (ground, boneless, or with bones), bake it or fry it lightly, and make some flavored H2O from that. I freeze the extra broth I make in icecube trays then put the frozen cubes in a zip lock bag for later.

I would imagine you could also find canned meat like chicken (in the aisle with canned tuna) to make flavored H2O as well. Just read the labels to make sure there isn’t any bad ingredients inside!

[Christine W]

Want to know if Greenies are bad for your dog just read these horror stories from pet owners @ http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/greenies.html. To me it is unconscionable that vets sell these things in their office.

Please, please always research anything you’re going to give your pets. Even the ratings on their dog food, because quite often they have been recalled in the past and/or have a history of being recalled and/or have questionable ingredients. Play it safe by researching first.

Regarding feeding your pets bones, only feed them raw, never cooked. Cooked bones splinter and can cause intestinal tears. Even if you’ve fed them bones in the past and nothing bad happened, all it takes is one time that can put them at the vets or emergency room. Costing several thousand dollars for surgery, which the majority of us don’t have to spare and end up having to put them asleep.

Hopefully this helps someone before it is to late. Please make sure to pass this information on to any pet owners you know.

[Susan]

Just found the page Lew olson says, much of the time the problem can be tracted back to carbohydrates, When dogs digest grains, reserves of important bacteria in ur dogs intestines become depleted, causing essential vitamins like vitamin B & K to be passed with the faces, When a dogs eats another dogs stool he may be trying to get back the bacteria & enzymes that are missing in his diet…Carbohydrates are more difficult to digest & may pass thru the dogs system only partially digested this may also make stools more tempting to ur dog. ..So what can u do? add digestive enzyems, beneficical bacteria & a B complex vitamin to the dogs diet may help curb his drive to eat stools, Reducing or eliminating carbs can also produce smaller less “appetizing” stools in which the food is more completely digested. A diet of raw meat & bones on the other hand, produces smaller, drier, & less smelly stools.The fewer grains ur dog eats the more benficial enzymes & bacteria remain avialable to ensure stools are well-formed & almost odorless. Unripe Pineapple & papayas are rich in the enzyems ur dog needs to break down proteins, & the bromelain in pineapple can also help with inflammation & the uptake of other supplements.
If ur dog is on a grain free kibble it may have potatoes which are carbohydrates…. This book ‘Raw & Nutual Nutrition for dogs’ is an excellent read Im learning so much, explaining heaps of health problems & what to feed ur dog.. good easy recipes Raw or cooked..

[Shasta220]

I’m not sure what the calcium content in their food is, I’d have to look. Seems like shells are around 40-50% calcium, right?

Is there a hazard of feeding raw eggs, or should I rather say – benefit of lightly cooked?

And my dogs don’t get many bones currently. We don’t have access to a good affordable butcher, and my dad didn’t go hunting this year, so the dogs only get occasional leftover (raw, yes) poultry bones. Cassy (dog who eats shells) doesn’t even get the bones, the boyz beat her to em.

Sue, they’re on kibble :/ dang I would love to get to home made, but as I’ve said – I don’t have the funds, resources, or space for it. One day though!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shasta220.

[Susan]

This book Im reading Raw & Nutural Nutrition for dogs by Lew Olson PhD, she recommends to boil the eggs, leave egg shells on a tray in warm place over night, then ground up.. If ur feeding Raw Meaty Bones they are a great source of calcium, they wont need the extra calcuim if their diet is raw, But if ur dogs aren’t on a Raw diet then..half a teaspoon of grounded egg shells sprinked on meal..Im doing this at the moment grounded up the egg shells & putting in spice jar..

[aquariangt]

Bully sticks also smell like crazy. But they do the trick. Some of my other favorites for time consuming:

Beef knee caps
Rib bones
Kongs with safe peanut butter (I’m sure you knew this one)
Tracheas (they don’t take much time)
Ligament bones, or plain ligaments
Dried jerky sticks

And of course, I’m always an advocate for feeding them out of trick bowls or treat dispensers, makes a huge difference in the evening

[theBCnut]

Consumable is dog dependant. All non weight bearing bones are consumable for a large dog, but beef ribs and vertebra aren’t consumable for a small dog. Consumable means that they can eat the entire thing within one meal time, so since I can give my Border Collies a beef rib and before their next meal they will have eaten the whole thing, I can consider a beef rib to be consumable. But my JRT can’t ever finish a beef rib, so for her they are not consumable, but she can handle pork ribs just fine.

[Shasta220]

Patty, what’s your definition of consumable bone? Anything non weight-bearing (beef/pork rib), or just poultry-type bones?

[theBCnut]

Bully sticks are high fat, so if you have a dog that is sensitive to fat levels that can cause loose stools. I like to give consumable bones and also to stuff Kongs and then freeze them.

[Nancy C]

YES I want to know too. Have a 20 month old GSD. My vet does not like deer antlers and anything else hard which includes BONES because they can easily crack a tooth and then you REALLY have a problem. I was surprised but she said if I saw some of the problems she sees due to cracked teeth I would agree with her. Rawhide is not digested so I do not give them to my dogs. Greenies are supposedly VERY BAD- plus our GSD chewed the XL ones in one minute. I found the website BESTBULLYSTICKS.com and they seem to have good ones. Go read that site. They explain WHY theirs are better. I ordered some and he LOVES THEM and a 12 inch takes him about 30 min. I take it from him after 15 min. I put them in the freezer a few days, thinking it will help with ANY bacteria left on the sticks. THe company says there is no bacteria due to their processing, but you never know. When this dog started getting runny stools I quit giving them to him because it COULD be bacteria in the stick that he cannot deal with. Now I’m dealing with runny stools. I also bought him a VARSITY BALL which is at Amazon and on the net. They are expensive but honestly this is more entertaining than a chew toy could ever be. Watch the videos of dogs playing with that toy. Plus, it wears him out. He cannot get enough of it. You might consider spending your chew toy money on this great entertainment. Good luck.

[Jeff T]

Our dog has acid reflux. He was throwing up ( I think he’s actually just regurgitating, not really throwing up) about once or twice a week in the middle of the night and every now and then during the day while we are at work. We switched his food to Nutro chicken and oatmeal formula a couple of years ago and it seemed to control it pretty well. He only had an incident every other month or so. We’ve tried to give him Tums, per the vets recommendation, but he never would eat them.

About 2 months ago our dog got worse. He was throwing up (or regurgitate) every day. We have found that feeding him chicken and rice for a few days clears up these episodes and he’s back to normal. I started researching raw food and cooked food diets for him and now I’m making his food myself. I use chicken thighs (they are the cheapest), sweet potato, carrots, green beans, and blueberries. I throw it all in a slow cooker and when it’s done I remove the bones and mash it all up. I add 1/2 cup of dry food and 1/2 cup of rice when I’m ready to feed them and they love it. No more tummy issues and their farts smell 90% better. Or, is it 90% less bad? Either way, both dogs could clear out a room before.

The only part of the diet I haven’t solved yet is the supplements. It seems like there are good and bad things said about Dinovite, but I haven’t tried that yet. I’ve been using Nupro, and it seems to work ok.

[Shawna]

Hi Gina,

My toy breeds (I have eight) and foster dogs (Boston Terriers and Papillons) all get raw or some raw. Between my own and my foster dogs, I’ve had more than 30 dogs on raw and never had a problem with even one of them to date. I actually have had two foster dogs that could not digest kibble well at all but did fantastic on raw.

For the record, I do have one dog that I will not feed raw edible bones to as she is a gulper and has choked on chew treats before. If she tries to swallow a chew treat that is too large she is likely to try to swallow a bone that is too large. I mainly feed ground, commercial raw but wanted to mention that..

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shawna.

[theBCnut]

My dogs get the cuts we don’t like, like cube and flank steak, neck bones with meat, short ribs, and ground beef.

[rogerharris]

Good try! Yes raw bones with meat are very good diet meal for dog. Bone is natural and good for dog health. I also give my dog a bone with chicken in every meals .

[theBCnut]

Raw chicken bones are usually just fine. Cooking any bones changes the matrix and causes them to splinter. The only time I worry about raw chicken and other small bones is when the dog tries to swallow them whole, so the important thing is to know what kind of chewer your dog is and give them bones of the appropriate size. My 45# Border Collies are good chewers so they can be given things with small bones. I would expect that the size your dogs are would mean that they won’t have any issues.

Oh, and you’re very welcome! We love to help people.

[Brandy R]

Sounds good to me! It was so much cheaper in bulk. Now another question, i have 4 dogs ranging from 15 lbs-30 lbs. would it be ok to give them a chicken back and let them go to town? I have read so many different stories of chicken bones choke dogs and others say chicken bones are soft enough to chew right through! You guys here on this forum seem to be pretty knowlegable:)

[theBCnut]

Beef ribs are a great first. Mine eat any kind of rib, beef, buffalo, mutton, goat, pork, you name it. Pork, mutton, and goat are higher fat, so the first time I gave them I trimmed as much fat off as I could. Soup bones are OK as long as your dog isn’t a heavy chewer, but if a strong chewer they can break teeth on those, and they have marrow in them which is very fatty, so it’s good to scoop some out and throw it away.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

First, I hope more people will chime in here with helpful advice. Now, to get to your questions as best I can.

It looks like your family is adding a lot of new members to the family. How great for all of them to be able to grow up and play together – and be fed raw. Looks like you’ll have your own little support group!

1. From all my reading on forums and Facebook, finding green tripe can be tricky. Some places ban the sale of it directly to consumers while others seem to be able to get it locally. I’m currently getting mine from MyPetCarnivore.com. I’m hoping that when I find someone who will sell direct, that they’ll also be able to provide the tripe. You’ll just have to ask and if they can’t, perhaps they’ll know where to get it.

2. Sure, you can grind necks. They aren’t terribly meaty, but they’ll grind easily enough. You should be able to start giving them whole when your pup gets a bit older. Chicken necks are tiny and I give them whole to my seven month old cat. I’ve been giving whole duck and turkey necks to Mystery since I started raw, he was 10 months at the time – he’s getting a turkey neck as part of his dinner tonight.

Different nutritionists/homeopathic vets will have various opinions on what, when, how and why to feed certain ingredients. I tend to lean toward Kymythy’s advice at the moment. She raises Newfies and feeds them raw as early as four weeks. The proof is in the health of her pups and adults.

3. I’m still not feeding veggies or “super” greens. Not a “purist” or anything but I wanted to first be sure I was feeding correctly the balance of meat/bone/organs and then get a blood panel or hair sample analysis – I’ll be scheduling that next week. Mystery’s only issues are a skin flaking problem – solved with coconut oil, and motion sickness – I’m still working on that and hoping he’ll grow out of it. So, until I get an analysis that says he needs more of this or that, I’m holding off on supplementing. I do give Mystery garlic for natural pest control and I also supplement with curcumen and vitamin C because Goldens have a high cancer mortality rate. I know a lot of people use “super” this and that as well as create their own veggie mashes. I would lean toward making my own purees since I believe nutrition from the source is best.

4. Most fruits have a lot of sugar in them. I would avoid most or feed them judiciously. I’ll share a banana with Mystery from time to time as well as give him apple slices, but not as a regular part of his diet. Here’s a basic chart that lists not only veggies and fruits that are toxic to pets but also plants as well as symptoms to watch for: http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/toxic.htm. And of course, you’ll find other sites that list fewer or additional foods.

5. Ah, SWEET potatoes. I haven’t read anything that shows a good reason to add most starches. That includes potatoes, peas, some beans. Many of these veggies convert starches to sugar when cooked. I used to give a tablespoon of pumpkin when our Sunset would have loose stools, but Mystery has had no problems there – and especially not since going raw.

6. I must defer to Kymythy on adding anything at all to an eight week old puppy’s diet. If you’re balancing 80/10/10 your calcium/phosphorus ratio is in perfect sync. Adding anything may not only increase the amount of calcium but may throw off that balance. Mess with that ratio and excess calcium can be deposited on the outside of the bones causing a number of issues. We had no idea that there was an issue with LBPs and calcium when we got Sunset 11 years ago. Before she was two, she required double-hip surgery. We got her from a backyard breeder (another ignorant move on our part), didn’t know much about hip scores and fed her what surely is on the one- or two-star lists here at DFA. I’ve been ultra focused on calcium since before I got Mystery.

An excerpt from Kymythy’s book, Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats:
By the time the young are ready to go to their new homes, they should be eating whole necks and regular meals with all the extras, and you may discontinue the enzymes and probiotics (although they may help counteract the digestive stress a youngster endures when going to a new home). Youngsters may be fed three times per day from eight weeks until four to six months old, then twice daily from four to six months old until one year of age, and once daily after one year of age. Giant breeds of dogs may need to be fed twice daily occasionally during growth spurts from one to three years of age. Either feed two complete meals or one complete and one of meaty bones (bones with ample meat) only. Observe your pet and adjust amounts accordingly. Do not feed so much that the stomach becomes overly extended. Do not let your pet become obese. A very thin layer of fat over the ribs is healthy, but too much weight puts extra stress on growing bones, joints, and hearts. A healthy wild animal is a lean animal. If your pet needs to lose weight, reduce its food intake. If it needs to gain weight, increase its food. Keep in mind that growing youngsters will eat more per pound of body weight than adult animals.

Schultze, Kymythy (1999-10-01). Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats (p. 67). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

Note the information on probiotics and enzymes is directed toward breeders who feed and wean pups to raw. If your puppy has been weaned to kibble, you might want to add some kefir to his diet for a time.

7. See #6, but I will take a look at the three products you mentioned for future use. I am not trying to discourage the use of any supplementation, just use caution and be sure you’re feeding only what is essential and beneficial.

8. I’m assuming you’re referring to the products in question 6 and maybe 7, not 8. LOL! I couldn’t find a guaranteed analysis of the Urban Wolf Balancer so I would be very wary of adding it. They do provide a recipe that uses their products with an analysis and it looks good. If you feel a strong need to supplement… Questions regarding their recipe ingredients might include, where do they get their fish oil from; is it guaranteed not to contain any toxins; if you use “canned” fish, do the cans contain BPA; if natural ingredients are better, why so many dried/powdered ingredients in their mixes? This is the hard part for me – giving my money to companies that sell premixes and toppers when I can just hit the market for fresh ingredients.

9. When you’re deciding on recipes, remember that your eight week old puppy is capable of handling chunks of raw meats, organs and bones. Even if he’s been weaned onto kibble before you get him, there should be no need to transition him as he hasn’t developed an addiction to the sugars and starches yet. I’d been feeding my kitten a kibble diet for about five months when I decided to transition the cats. Since he’d been stealing raw food from the dog, I went straight to raw with him and he jumped all over it, including chicken necks and other appropriately sized bones. I feed grinds only when the weather’s so bad that I can’t even put Mystery on the screened deck, usually when it’s too cold. The cats get fed in the tiled bathroom since they don’t feel the need to drag food all over the place – yet!

Any time you freeze or cook food, you’re going to lose a bit of nutritional value. Most of us have large freezers because we buy in bulk so frozen it is. Be sure you thaw foods and try to bring them to room temp before feeding. As Alpha in my house, I pull food from the refrigerator and let it sit on the counter until I’ve finished my coffee – then they get to eat. I know some people feed frozen foods but I wouldn’t do that to a puppy. Ever get brain freeze from drinking a shake too fast? Imagine a puppy’s digestive system trying to warm up frozen meat. There may be other opinions out there on this, but I would definitely feed three times a day for the first six months and then move to twice a day until he’s at least a year old. You should be feeding him 10% of his current weight until that exceeds 2-3% of his target weight.

I love Mercola. There is a chart floating around that shows who is fighting GMO labeling and who is supporting it in WA. I use it when I go shopping and yes, some of the products I’ve purchased in the past come from companies fighting WA. Let me know if you can’t find it. I get that having to label a product 50 different ways could put a hardship on business so I would support a federal label that is nothing less than FULL disclosure. That said, I don’t trust the FDA or any other governmental agency to have my best interest at heart. I’m a big fan of personal responsibility. The government assumes I’m ignorant…, I believe it’s a choice. (Whoops, gone political.)

I’m glad you were able to find a farm so quickly to meet your raw needs. Don’t forget to pick up chicken feet, green tripe, testicles, heart, kidneys… Go for goat and rabbit as well as chicken, turkey and beef. Something that I would have gotten wrong is differentiating between what are considered organs and what is not.

Organs: Liver (5% of the diet), kidneys, spleen, brain, thymus gland, panaceas and testicles (the other 5%)

Not organs: Heart, Gizzard, Tongue, lung, trachea, green tripe (all considered as part of the 80%).

Another site for learning more about feeding raw is here: https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=116. It’s a culling of articles from a variety of sources.

I better turn my attention to the vacuum and washer now or I’m going to be overrun by tumblefurs. I look forward to seeing you on Facebook soon.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove’s Questions transferred from /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/page/66/

Hi Sharon! I will be looking into the facebook group after we get our puppy, Zeus is his name :), cause our teens don’t know about it yet and adding that group to our facebook will certainly give them a hint lolll
Someone wrote (i think it was you!?): “Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list)”
What were you told?

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.
1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?
2- Can i grind necks?
3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?
4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)
5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?
6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!
7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?
8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?
9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?
*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[Brandy R]

Thanks Hound dog mom i will definitely try the larger RMB’s first. My only concern about taking them away is will my dogs get aggressive? They are very territorial when they use to get chew bones. For the most part they didn’t growl or snap at me but would fight each other horribly and then if i would try taking the bone away they would snap at me. My husband and i are nervous this raw food diet will make them extremely aggressive with each other and us. With their kibble we have taught the dogs that its ok for my husband myself and our children to pet them while they eat and even stick our hands in the food bowl or take the bowl away. They are all great with the kibble and even eat together side by side in the kitchen (they have their own little corner where they eat.

[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good Great Dane breeder. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Brandy –

Just because a dog gulps kibble doesn’t necessarily mean that they will gulp RMB’s. The goal is to only feed RMB’s large enough that they have to chew (the RMB should be bigger than their mough). For example, I’d never give my two girls (large bloodhounds) small chicken necks or wings because they would just swallow them, instead I give turkey necks, chicken quarters, chicken backs etc. I’ve also heard of people putting clamps on the end of RMB’s if their dog still gulps. My suggestion would be to try giving your small dogs bones that are obviously much too large for a meal (i.e. a turkey neck) and when they’ve eaten an appropriate amount take it away and refrigerate for the next meal. When it’s eaten to the point that it’s small enough to swallow, remove it and dispose of the bit that’s left.

With that said, if it turns out that your dog can’t eat RMB’s safely it’s certainly okay to not include RMB’s in the diet – of course you will then need to add supplemental calcium and be very proactive about dental care because your dog won’t be getting the calcium and dental benefits that RMB’s provide. Good luck and come back if you have any more questions! 🙂

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a501/hagelult/IMG_2161_zps707bc44f.jpg

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a501/hagelult/IMG_2176_zps95819491.jpg

[Brandy R]

Hi All,
I have been doing a lot of research about the BARF diet for my K9 babies and come across this forum. I live in St. Louis MO, have 4 dogs. 6 yr old Jack Russell (Bella)-overweight at 19.4 lbs, 2 yr old Jack Russell/Shih tzu mix (Candy)-rescued her she is perfect at 15.4 lbs, 2 yr old Shihshon (shih tzu/bichon frise mix) (Falcor)-very submissive but perfect 17 lbs and last but not least my 10 month old beagle (Brutus)-he is my problem child right now weighing in at 30.2 lbs he has separation anxiety terrible-inside and out. Will tear the house apart if left inside and digs up my tree outside….super rotten but I love him dearly.
I am extremely nervous about starting a raw diet mainly because I want to gag thinking about all the raw boney foods they will be eating and gnawing on…yuk but also scared they will choke on bones. Candy is not a gulper but the other 3 inhale their kibble and its even worse when i add egg or yogurt or cottage cheese to it. I can’t imagine what they would do with a chicken back or neck or any other raw meaty bone for that matter. Any suggestions? Also I read to feed them 2% of their ideal weight per day split into 2 meals, does that sound right?
I recently started eating healthy myself (more veggies and meat-less carbs) and have been concerned about my Bella and how overweight she is, so i started doing some research and that’s when I came across the raw diet and what I have read it seems to be so much healthier for my dogs. I want to keep them healthy and happy for many more years without breaking the bank in the process.
It seems if I can find a distributor that would be extremely cheap. I plan to stop by a couple local grocery stores and meat markets in the next few days to speak with the Butcher about getting some parts they don’t sell.

[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

I was reading over my notes from a recent raw feeding conference and it isn’t just meat that will throw off the calcium/phosphorus in your dog’s diet. Having spent the better part of a few months researching bone health before getting my Mystery, I had asked the question about how to ensure he wouldn’t get too much calcium on a raw diet – even though eight months later, he was now able to process excess calcium (he won’t be our last puppy).

“Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”

That was the answer from Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist who raises champion Newfoundlands. She has a wonderful book called Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats.

[Shasta220]

My older lab gets gunky teeth easily (recently had a dental cleaning + tooth extraction), so I have to keep up on her oral hygiene with brushing, bones, coconut oil, and I like keeping something in her water to help out even more, since she really needs it.

I’m just wondering if any of you have a favorite water additive? I’ve only tried two things so far, an organic one from a specialty store (looooved it, but it’s ONLY at that store, so I doubt I’ll be able to get it again as it was far away), and then I’m on TropiClean right now. I’ll be honest, it doesn’t do much anything :/

Are there any specific ingredients to look for or avoid next time I try finding something?

[theBCnut]

Never ever feed cooked bones of any kind. That is what causes bones to splinter. Weight bearing bones of larger animals can break teeth. Other than that, I feed any kind of bone, except fish spines, and I don’t mean spinal columns either, I mean those sharp bones it some fish dorsal fins.

When I first started, I removed skin, because it is high fat, but I found that my dogs don’t have any problems with high fat so now I don’t remove the skin.

[chris w]

Our puggle loves to eat and chew on bones. I am afraid to get bones that splinter. She gulps everything down! She is over weight,so I have to watch what I give her. What is a good bone that will last,but not slinter? Should they be raw or cooked?

[theBCnut]

Mine had goat for dinner. The bones are a little harder, but so worth it.

[Iride4tnt]

The kiddos got their first chicken back and neck today. I gave them frozen and was amazed how quickly they were devoured. No ill digestive effects so far.

[Walter L]

I’m curious if anyone has questioned manufacturers about heavy metal content in their dog foods? I’m noticing a trend in refrigerated and supposedly high end dog foods putting bone in the top 10 ingredients in their food and marketing it as a “natural” calcium source.

Looking back at the history of calcium supplementation for humans….bones used to be the norm until it was banned after discovering heavy metal accumulation that occurs in bones from livestock drinking less than ideal water sources.

If it was banned for humans…is it really a safe source for our pets? Maybe pets should be getting their calcium supplements from a purer calcium source such as calcium citrate like humans do?

What are your thoughts?

[Catherine T]

I use the deer antlers which my french bulldog loves and chews on for long periods..
All I do know is not to use anything from China!!!
Nylabones my dog likes too
as far as soft treat I use kong soft treat, chewy no wheat, corn or soy

[Shasta220]

I’ve posted a thread or two with some canned questions… My Maddy is a spoiled littl girl, and I just started her on canned food a couple months ago.

I’m curious as to what favorite brands are, and is it safe to switch brands regularly without a transition? She has free choice of dry, and then gets about 1/4-1/2 of a 6oz can daily. I wanted to keep her on just one or two brands, then switch the flavors out since rotating meat sources is good. But Ms. Picky Pants /only/ likes foods with poultry as the first ingredient. So I thought that changing the brands would be good since some have liver as the 2-3rd, some have fish, etc.

So far I’ve tried Natural Balance, Chicken Soup, and Felidae. So far her favorites are Felidae and CS, she likes NB, but not as much as the other two. I’d like to try a few others as well, since I’m using DFA’s canned ratings as a guideline – I’d definitely assume the same brand would produce the same quality for both cat and dog foods.

Also, I am getting a bit concerned as far as oral health goes. She eats little-to-no dry anymore, and doesn’t bat an eye at our other cat’s raw bones. Brushing is obviously out (that’d be a miracle to see – a cat who’d allow you to brush its teeth!), so the only thing I can think of (other than regular dentals by a vet) is water additives? Does anyone have a favorite brand? So far, about the only one that I have tried is TropiClean… (I had an organic one, I looooved it. But it was in a specialty store far away, so I doubt I’ll be able to get it again) I’m not too impressed with it, honestly.

[Naturella]

Yeah, I think brushing and RMBs/natural chews would be the way to go for Bruno. I have also tried the Blue Buffalo dental bones (once), and it gave him serious tummy troubles… So none of those anymore. I trust(ed?) Zuke’s more, I have used their training treats with no problems, so we’ll see.

I have used a water additive too, he had to have 2 canine teeth extracted because the puppy ones wouldn’t fall and the adult ones had come in, so he was a little shark with 4 sharp canines (the long ones). So after the extraction I used water additive in his water, more for antiseptic purposes.

I have read that apple cider vinegar is good to put in their water, so I got some with the mother in it, but Bruno really dislikes his water with it and barely drinks it… I put one teaspoon, maybe I should put less? I don’t know…

[crazy4cats]

I figured out that I feed about 80% kibble, 12% toppers such as canned, raw medallions, dehydrated (THK), sardines and recently eggs. And the remaining 8% is various treats, such as bully sticks, pig’s ears, raw marrow bones, or treat filled kongs.

[Shasta220]

Greenies around here aren’t liked too much, I’ll admit. And I will agree with everyone else – they stink, have gross ingredients, and really don’t clean as well as they say.

Try getting on a routine of brushing daily (or at least weekly if you have a difficult pooch), and you can use raw bones as well as other natural chews. I also went to the extremes of a water additive for my oldest girl, but I don’t think that’s nessicary.

I do, however, love Zuke’s Z-ridge bones. The textur is similar to greenies, but they are made of better ingredients like potatoes, fruits, and natural breath help from plants. Plus they seemed to actually work. I broke a big one in half and gave a piece to two of my dogs – by the time they were done, they have /really/ good breath. Greenies? Not so much. I’m not sure how good they are ever since Purina bought them though :/ all I know is the packaging has already changed (I miss the old packages) and prices have skyrocketed… Ugh!

[Naturella]

At the moment we feed Bruno about 75-80% dry mixed kibble and about 20-25% additives: pumpkin, yoghurt, cottage cheese, flax seed meal, coconut oil/butter, canned sardines, and one raw egg/week and an RMB/week (right now I rotate between chicken backs and pork neck bones).

With the amount of dry food brands I want to rotate between, if I don’t mix it would probably take AT LEAST 1/2 of Bruno’s life to go through all of them ONCE, if not more time than that. There are many high-quality kibbles out there and he seems to adapt well in rotation. He does love his raw too though! 🙂

It is my husband and I’s dream to own land and a farm one day – doesn’t have to be huge, just enough to raise goats, some sheep, chickens, rabbits, and, if by a lake – ducks and maybe fish. We would like to grow our own fruits and veggies, at least some of them. (I only have 10 fruit/nut trees in mind, no more. LoL Not counting the bush fruit/nut-giving plants.) We would like to hunt our food – deer, ducks, geese, pheasants, rabbits, fish, whatever, and know where our food comes from. So THEN, I would like to be giving maybe 80% or more balanced raw with supplements. I really hope we get there some day. 🙂

[theBCnut]

The turkey necks I get are definitely big enough for a lab, about 1 1/2 lbs each. Chicken neck are small enough that they could be swallowed whole. I suspect that a dog as big as a Lab would just pass them with out any difficulty, but I wouldn’t let my Border Collies have them if they were gulpers. I would give a half chicken, or a whole leg quarter to a Lab, just so he gets plenty of chewing satisfaction. I like to give ribs to good chewers, and chichen and turkey back are good too. Chicken feet are fine for any size dog, cut the nails off first if you are worried, but that shouldn’t be an issue for a large dog.

If you don’t have a need for increasing calcium in your dogs, I wouldn’t feed chicken bones except inside the chicken I’m feeding.

[pfeiner]

OK – so have been doing some reading etc. about RMB and feeding to my two Labs who presently eat a commercial raw diet. I am looking to start making my own and am fearful of smaller RMB. They eat beef shank/marrow bones regularly with no issue – the older boy is more aggressive w his bones (typical Lab) and the pup is more mellow with his. So… are chicken & turkey necks safe for Labs? What about chicken feet – found them at a market the other day. I had read somewhere that I should avoid wings as they are too small. My market often times has frozen organic chicken bones. Can I feed them? I guess Thanks loads for your feedback!!

[Naturella]

Oh, and I forgot – he also told me that I am going “way over the top with all these
“all natural” dog stuff” I get (I assume he referred to not only the additives, but also my all-natural chews (bully sticks, tracheas, hooves, antlers, raw marrow bones, etc.))…

[samlover]

After many trial and error attempts, we found a great food for our little sensitive mutt-but one issue: bad breath. Sammy loves his food, and I add a bit of flax seed powder to it for fiber (keeps his anal glands clear). I’ve always added flax to his food, so I can’t blame the flax seed…the only thing I can think of that’s different is medication he’s on (zonisamide and azathiaprine) which the vet said shouldn’t have anything to do with his breath, and the food switch almost a year ago now. Sam has a seizure disorder and he gets blood labs every 2 months, and his blood work is great. His checkups have been great, and the vet says his teeth look good. I brush his teeth, he has nylabones and chews a lot, and he has all natural dog breath tablets. NONE of this helps at all. Has anyone else noticed this with Acana (duck and pear) or with high protein food? His breath smells straight up like a fishing pier-like rotting fish.

[Shasta220]

I know raw bones are the best, but I’ll face it: two of my dogs don’t like raw meat NEARLY as much as cooked, so the raw bone (off of the deer/elk we hunt usually) just stays outside in their kennel, and starts to stink the place up. So we end up smoking the bones (using our own wood chips…) #1. The dogs seem to like it more #2. It’s a lot easier to leave the extra ones on the shelf when they’re smoked (and there’s no room in the freezer to hold extra raw bones usually).
I wonder if smoking them just long enough to preserve the meat-scraps would keep the bone at the same “texture”?

We learned the truth of weight-bearing bones the hard way. Poor Cassy has a nice big hole in her head now, LOL!

[Cyndi]

Steve, see my reply in the “Hard natural bones” thread

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Cyndi.

[Cyndi]

I bought one of those smoked bones one time for my doberman when I had him. Those damn things break up into big shards of really sharp pieces! My dog was not happy because I immediately took it away from him. Never buy those things!

[stevebcny]

What are thoughts about smoked bones?
My understanding is they may be brined and smoked at a low temperature for safe shelf life.

[stevebcny]

What about the smoked bones you see for sale?

[Naturella]

I think I have mentioned being in a similar situation with my roommate who feeds his lab-hound mix the Science Diet. While not as horrible as Beneful or Pedigree, he can still do MUCH better, especially because he has the means to! But he just believes he knows a lot about dogs and would not listen to another opinion. This weekend he was out climbing and I was in charge of feeding his dog. Many times I debated whether I should sneak some good food into her crap, or at least a sardine, some coconut butter, or some healthy additive, but never did, precisely because of what neezerfan said. The dog is somewhat picky and if she doesn’t eat the food and he gets home and sees it, he will be upset. Or, if she eats it and gets sick, he will be upset. So while it is heartbreaking to me to not feed her good food, I am working on coming to terms that this battle is one I will never win.

I have, however, gotten a really close friend of mine and a former roommate to stop feeding her lab and chorkie (chihuahua-yorkie mix) dogs the Aldi brand dog food Shep (1 star), to feeding 3.5-5-star foods, such as Blue Buffalo, Great Life, Earthborn, Holistic Heath Extension, Evangers, Nutro, Victor, etc. She can clearly see the effects of better food on her dogs, especially her lab, whose coat has gotten soft and shiny. Her and her dogs are my pride and joy! Now, if only I can get her to stop bathing them every week and giving them “greenies” every night, I would feel complete, but that’s another story, lol. She does give them bully sticks-antlers-marrow bones-hooves-himalayan dog chews-other natural chews, so I guess they are ok for the most part. 🙂

Another “battle” is with a classmate, who is a vet actually, but studied in Colombia, back in the day. Her husband feeds their rottweiler Pedigree (1 star) and stuff like that, so I am going to slowly introduce her to other foods for a great price too (Victor for example, and Earthborn, and HHE). I am giving her a bag of free samples of better foods I got from the nearby pet boutique, and I will hopefully get her to switch to Victor Joint Health or something like that soon. 🙂

Overall I have spoken to many friends who have dogs about dog food, and some take my advice, and some don’t, but if I can even help one dog, I would be happy. I would always want to help more though, but you just have to be careful, and really gauge how to speak to a person about what they feed their “baby”.

[Melissaandcrew]

Just wanted to update this. Have been grinding raw components since Oct and MOSt do well with it. However, I do have two 14 yr olds and a 16 yr old who do NOT do well with raw-They lost a bunch of weight which was quickly regained once they went back on dry. No way would they eat the volume in raw to keep weight on. Lesson confirmed-raw does NOT work for all dogs.

Secondly, Hubby helped me grind my chicken pieces the other night-it will be at least a week for it to be shipped to the company, have gears replaced and get it back. Thankfully its under warranty and the company I bought the Tassan from does not void the warranty for grinding chicken bones in the Tassan.

On the bright side, Hubby thought the food making was taking way too much time away from other things we need to do, so he just ordered a new one. After watching some videos of the Wesson’s grinding, he ordered the Wesson 32 since it said it was good for large volumes. His thought is we can process en masse once a month or every other and save a bunch of time!

I still recc the Tassan for those grinding a small amount, or those looking to try a grinder out before committing to an expensive purchase. I figure with this one I can grind whole turkeys without worrying about damage.

[pfeiner]

Thanks for your feedback. Like moist, I have spent a lifetime (57 yrs :)) being told to stay away from bones and pets. Knowing that cooking bones is a problem as they will splinter, raw bones are OK?? I read that they are but I am still afraid. I see see poultry necks at the market and think, the pups would love them, but I am afraid of causing health issues.