[Naturella]

I’d say brushing, natural chews (like HoundDogMom and pugmomsandy said), and, if you’re down for it – raw meaty bones (RMBs) every night or a few times/week. For a small dog (mine is a 13-lb rat terrier mix), chicken necks, chicken backs, pork neck pieces should work ok. They help clean teeth too.

[pugmomsandy]

Do you give chew bones of any kind (tendons, bully sticks, raw meaty bones, ribs, Himalayan chews, cow hoof, etc)? There are also oral gels and oral sprays that you can apply nightly. There’s even a seaweed that you can add to feeds such as ProDen Plaque Off or other brand. My dogs will chew on their cow hoof for two hours after they’ve eaten the tripe out of it (frozen tripe-stuffed cow hoof) and they really love gnawing on beef ribs. The Himalayan chews are really tough as well and last.

[Melissa]

I am also vegetarian and have two rescues, so my dogs tend to “scarf” things. It took me some time to find the right bones for them that

1. they couldnt’ hurt themselves on (ei I have never fed chicken necks or bones that could become easily lodged for them)

2. They would be interested in gnawing at for a while. If there wasn’t enough meat on it to keep them interested, they won’t even start on the bone.

I have two smaller dogs, so I go with buffalo knuckels and neck slices (lamb and elk). they have been good at eating them nicely and not scarfing! I get them from the pet store (raw food pet store).

[pugmomsandy]

Yes, raw skinless whole chicken leg quarter with bone or enough to give your dogs a meal of it. I have small dogs. A drumstick or a couple of wings would be enough for mine. You can usually find leg quarters on sale frequently or in large family size bags. If your worried about whole bones, smash the leg a couple times with a hammer or back of a cleaver or something. My small dogs can even eat pork ribs (but I would consider pork ribs fatty).

[DogFoodie]

A local butcher or even grocery store ares great places to start. Just remember to avoid weight bearing bones. Depending on the size of your dog, something like a turkey neck for a larger dog is a good RMB or a chicken neck for a small dog. I’ve also ordered a lot of nice consumable bones from mypetcarnivore.com.

Here’s a thread with some more information about RMBs: /forums/topic/vegetarian-owner-new-to-feeding-raw-bones-advice-please/

[Danni D]

Ugh…if you can get your dog off of the Pedigree.
It’s just not good for them.
I can vouch for Pure Balance, I rotate that in my Rottie’s diet, he also gets raw, freshpet and canned. I change his kibble every bag though. But he has done well on it.
Here is a controversial one to some but I have had great luck and health- Diamond Naturals not the plain cheaper Diamond. I fed my last rot this food for 15 years along with Raw and he did fine- it is also in my current rotation. It is not a bad food but Diamond has had a history of recalls. Many other Pet food makers have had recalls. Many are skiddish about Diamond because of this but it’s not a bad food. They make many other brands as well.
You can get Diamond Naturals of all kinds for great prices at Menards.
I wish I could tell you about 4health but living where I live we don’t have many feed stores. I do want to try it though as well as Eagle Pack.
Victor is a great food for my Rot, he likes it. My Pom got sick on it but he has a sensitive belly- kibble doesn’t sit well.
I bought Authority once and found maggots so ugh…not one I would feed but I know many do.

Hey Betsy- if you don’t mind little hijack- where do you get raw meaty bones? Butcher?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Danni D.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Ally,

Pedigree doesn’t have a very good reputation. It actually contains a lot of ingredients that many believe are unhealthy, myself included. I try to feed my dogs foods that contain ingredients, every one of which, are healthful. Corn is a filler ingredient that doesn’t deliver much nutritional value, unless very highly processed; and our goal should be to eat foods that have undergone minimal processing.

Did you happen to read the Pedigree product review: /?s=Pedigree

It’s a myth that kibble cleans teeth. The only way to really clean teeth is to scrape off the tartar manually with a toothbrush or even to feex your dog some occasional raw, meaty bones.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Ally –

With the possible exception of prescription kibble formulas designed to support dental health, a kibble claiming to fight tarter is really a marketing gimick. Imagine if your dentist told you that if you ate croutons daily you’d have nice teeth and could quit brushing and flossing – if my dentist did that I’d tell him he’s nuts! There are many dental products on the market such as gels, sprays, some specially designed dental chews and raw meaty bones that may aid in supporting dental health to a certain degree. However, the only way to achieve optimal dental health is if you brush your dog’s teeth regularly. Many dog owners don’t realize the importance of oral health or realize that dogs require that their teeth are brushed regularly (just like humans!). The good news is it’s never too late to start!

Here’s a good article to get you started:

http://www.animalwellnessmagazine.com/articles/brush-his-pearly-whites/

If your dog is having issues with Pedigree you may also want to check out some other foods. Some foods I know of that many people seem to like that are comparable in price to Pedigree are 4Health (sold at Tractor Supply), Pure Balance (sold at Walmart), Rachel Ray (sold at Walmart and most grocery stores), Whole Earth Farms (sold at Petco and many pet specialty stores), Eagle Pack (sold at many pet specialty stores), Authority (sold at Petsmart) and Victor (sold at many feed stores).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Not sure if you can get this kind but this is what I use when I use salmon:

http://www.raincoasttrading.com/raincoast-trading-pink-salmon-no-salt.html

It’s wild-caught, no salt added pink salmon with bones and the cans are BPA free. As an added bonus it (surprisingly) isn’t too expensive. I believe it’s only like $1 more than Bumblebee at my store.

[Mike M]

Thanks – yes, I have started feeding the water packed unsalted sardines also, here and there. Yes, the UW recipe does call for fish but I anticipate using more than they call for but, still not sure about that. I appreciate your mentioning the calcium though.

Wanted to use the canned salmon with the bones and skin but there was too much salt in it.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If I’m not mistaken (it’s been awhile since I’ve used Urban Wolf) I think the recipe on the package calls for the addition of fish oil or canned fish so I’m sure that’s factored in. You can also use the canned salmon that includes bones. Either way, you usually have the leeway to add up to 20% unbalanced extras without throwing off the balance of an already balanced meal. Another option to consider for omega 3’s that a lot of us here use are tinned sardines packed in water. I personally rotate between canned salmon and tinned sardines for my dogs.

[Susan]

Hi, dont you mean reflux, some mornings my boy has reflux, he starts to swollow, swollow & swollow real quickly, it seems to be water or what he has eaten for breakfast, I’ve been giving him a smaller breakfast, Ive been giving him dry toast with a Lobster & salmon paste finely spread first then about 2 hrs later, I give him his breakfast…I know ur not suppost to give bread but it seems to help him absorb the morning acid, if the reflux keeps going, I give 1/3 Zantac tablet, but bones would make it worst..Have you seen those Rice bones, I saw a packet the other day but when I read the ingredients I never heard of half of the ingredients, I liked the fat% it was only 0.5% fat.

[pugmomsandy]

Darford has Mega Bones:

http://darford.com/products-list/

[Wanda F]

Course you wouldn’t eat bones and fat sue66b…you’re not a dog; what a silly thing for a vet to say. I’m truly astounded how little vets. know about canine nutrition. I’ve never seen Brewer jump from the car and run into a corn field for a snack but he does get dangerously close to my daughter’s chicken coop. I’m using chicken hearts for treats and he loves chicken livers; when I can find them fresh. I did some research on See Spot Live Longer and I think it’s reasonably priced and contains all the special xtras Brew needs to balance out his diet. I can do the rest from my kitchen, I think. He’s doing okay on Nutrisca but honestly, he “poops” 4 times a day and he’s back to scratching!!!
Oh, and I agree “CSollers,” I think dog food companies pay/bonus the vets. to push their food. Thanks for all the info.

[Diana M]

I am a long time Dane owner, currently have 3, 2-6yr olds and a 9 month old puppy. Great Danes absolutely need to start out their lives on a low protein diet, puppy food and higher than 24% protein can be disabling and painful. The higher protein causes their bones to grow more rapidly, and any Giant pet owner knows they grow fast. My guys grow a pound a day on a “low” protein diet. When the cartilage can not keep up with their bones (on a higher protein diet) the bones start to rub and it is painful for them to walk. Even on a low protein diet this can still happen, and happened to me. I kept the runt of a litter, had to tube feed him when he was born, about 5 months of age on a low protein diet he couldn’t walk. I fed him an 18% protein food and he was walking in no time. My thought process is if your Dane does well on the low protein as an adult continue to feed him/her that. If they do not, a slightly higher protein may be your answer. They are a naturally lean dog so the low protein helps them with their weight, but if they have bowel issues, by all means try a higher protein diet. Another note: All of my Danes, have had issues with beef, lamb, chicken has always been my go to. I dehydrate chicken breast for them for their treats. It’s easy and cheaper than purchasing that garbage from China.

[Tina]

Colitis and a severe allergie to fish. As for the bones, my vet said that fish bones are very dangerous and could have caused her intestines to tear.

[Susan]

I rescued my boy just over 1 year ago & he too has bowel, tummy & skin problems..For some reason corn must bind them more, Patch is on vet prescrition Eukanuba Intestinal since last August when vets said he has IBD, it has corn also, I found the Eukanuba heaps better then Hills & Royal Canin … His skin stopped being itchy, no more diarrhea, the Hills & Royal Canin never helped him…This Janurary I’ve been slowing adding different foods & different kibbles but so slowly but Ive been cooking the chicken breast boiling it cause of the fat.. also I found that the Nutro natural choice & Holistic Select have been good kibbles with his diarrhea…he also gulps, so Im too scared to give any bones, I dont want to push my luck as he’s pretty stable at the moment, I also have read that raw & kibble is no good but if you give at different times it should be OK, I give cooked for breakfast then do kibble for lunch & dinner, that way he’s getting all his vitamins from his kibbles .. Last year my vet said NO to raw especially when I was giving chicken necks, he said to me, they’re are just bones & fat would you eat bones & fat, I said no….so now I cook chicken breast, pumkin & freeze cause 2 months ago I found out that Patch has Pancreatitis poor thing, last year vets were trying this kibble trying that kibble & all along he needed a low fat kibble we thought it was the fiber being to high but it was the fat % that was too high…
I think for some reason they seem more special when they have been rescued, they have had it tough & are survivors…You’ll work it all out but it does become confusing…. just stay away from the carbohydrates with his skin problems, no potatos or sweet potatos in kibbles..

[FreeholdHound]

Sitting in amazement on how the advice on these Forums have helped over the past year. I went from a Greyhound who had so many food intolerances I was at the end of my rope to now feeding:
Natures Logic, Earthborn GPF, Hare Today grinds bones & Tripe, Grandma Lucy’s, See Spot Live Longer, and Tiki canned food (the only canned food I’ve found).

I never thought I’d find ONE food let alone rotate! Soooo very grateful 🙂

[Wanda F]

Didn’t even realize there were premixes. Thanks so much for the info. The veternarians Brewer has seen don’t know as much about canine nutrition as you guys do; best $19.99 I’ve ever spent. Why is it most vets. recommend/prescribe corn based food, typically Purina? I walked out of one office with a 6 pound bag ($26.99) and the first 3 ingredients
were rice, corn gluten and whole grain corn. Another vet wouldn’t even discuss a raw diet; thought Brewer would choke on the raw bones and get Ecoli or something.
I think the pre-mixes are a good idea; one meal raw, one kibble. What do you know about Nutrisca/Dogswell?I was surprised it wasn’t listed in Editor’s Choice.

[pugmomsandy]

You can do homemade raw by using the Premixes like Grandma Lucy’s, The Honest Kitchen, Dr Harvey’s, Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer. You add your own meat and oil. If you’re worried about mixing raw and kibble, then you can feed one meal raw and one meal of kibble. Some dogs might have a problem with mixing foods, but not all. You can also get a grinder at least 3/4 horsepower. That should be able to grind chicken bones so you can buy bulk chicken at a lower cost. Find out if you have any restaurant supply stores near you that you can purchase from. You can buy items by the case. But to answer the question of what’s the next best thing to raw, I would say freeze dried raw, air-dried raw, dehydrated raw, cooked freeze dried or cooked dehydrated and canned food, then kibble.

[Wanda F]

I’ve had Brewer for 2 years; rescue Lab. who spent most of his young life at the shelter. He came with numerous stomach, stool and skin problems (even thought the neighbors had poisoned him because he was so sick)…after several vet. visits who suggested corn based food I went to Dog Food Advisor and tried Dogswell-Nutrisca…he’s certainly doing better but I want the best for him so I tried raw but realized I was too uncertain how to get it balanced and he’s a “gulper” so meaty bones and whole chicken pieces are a hazard. Now I’m looking at Orijen…seems the next best thing to raw for this special boy. Any advice???

[scottNY]

My 70 lb, 16 month old pit mix has always had regurgitation issues, particularly in the morning. He was checked out by my vet and it seems like an irregular esophagus, nothing too serious.

One of the things I have found that helps is getting him to munch on something to absorb some of the overnight stomach acid build up prior to giving him water in the morning. Unfortunately, he loves the large Milk Bones, but of course, I don’t.

I have tried the Old Mother Hubbard Classic Bac’N’Cheez Biscuits Baked Dog Treats, which are a great size, but they are not that healthy and aren’t grain-free. Of course, my dog doesn’t like them as much as Milk Bone, either. I am trying to find something large, at least relatively healthy [he only gets one a day] and definitely grain-free that I can use. It seems almost everything that is healthy and grain-free is small.

I always get good advice here and much of my dog’s dietary/nutritional routine comes from DFA. Any ideas?

P.S. If anyone is wondering why I don’t just give him a few different healthy, grain-free cookies, the answer is my dog has always been a picky eater and I consider it a success if I can get him to eat one thing in the morning. Multiple cookies are a chore.

P.P.S. If anyone is searching the word “regurgitation” and finds this post, I would be glad to share the things I have done to minimize the problem. One idea I got from this forum was to add Iceland Pure Sardine Anchovy oil to his diet. I went from at least 1-3 regurgitations a day to 1-3 per week, maybe fewer. Coincidence or not, I don’t know, but amazon.com ships me my supply monthly and we aren’t stopping it – ever!

• This topic was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by scottNY.

[theBCnut]

Jake’s mom

You did exactly what I would have done. If they don’t consume the bone completely then after a couple hours when they get tired of it, I throw it away. Some people refreeze them and give it again later, but I have plenty of bones, so have never felt a need to save them.

Sue

Dogs handle the germs just fine, so I don’t risk cooking even a little bit of the bone. I do tend to give bones in their crates, so they don’t get raw meat all over the house though. Also, good luck on finding raw meaty bones that are low fat. Ribs are fatty, though lamb is much leaner than mutton. I think brisket is the sternum area. The leanest raw meats are chicken and turkey with the skin removed, but they aren’t as much workout for the teeth.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by theBCnut.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Zohar, Feeding raw meaty bones, it that’s what you’re thinking of, depends on the size of your dog and how they eat. I have two large breed older pups that are all on raw within the last 3 months. The older one (8 yrs., 80 lbs) took to raw like a champ but takes her time chewing her raw meaty bones (so far smaller turkey necks, also chicken necks, wing, feet and backs. And she LOVES them.
The other two are under a year (95 lbs and 70 lbs). They chew most RMBs but quite often, with turkey necks, will swallow a large chunk at the end and then regurgitate several pieces of bone about 3-4 am. It’s never been a real problem but not great to wake up, clean up and wonder if all is ok for the next hour. So I’ve recently started using a meat mallet on turkey necks to break down the bone slightly before feeding. Seems to be the answer as there has been no bone regurgitation since I started.
A couple of tips I found elsewhere: to cut large, heavier bones into smaller pieces use a garden type Lopper. Works great on turkey necks. Be careful about pieces that are too small as it is easier to choke on something that is just a little too big to swallow rather than something large that they break into smaller pieces themselves. That said, I’ve also heard of holding some of them with tongs while they eat until you’re confident they can manage the size, etc. on their own. I have to say it was kind of scary at first and it’s never good to be over-confident that you never question what you’re doing.
And even if you don’t have a butcher, there are SO many raw pet food providers available now! You can buy lots of different raw meaty bones from any of them. Just research to make sure it’s the quality you want.

https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/
http://www.rawpaws.org/display/main/Raw+Paws+Home+Page
http://reelrawdog.com/
https://www.hare-today.com/

And last, I heard of a website that provides info and links to many organic farms (meat and veg). Maybe there’s one near you! Check here for places that might be close to you: http://www.eatwild.com/index.html

Good luck!

Still confused TOO!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Sue's Zoo.

[Susan]

Hi, I’m a vegetarian to, I hate meat, all those poor animals getting killed.. I was thinking of giving Patch a raw meaty bone once a week but Im worried as he has Pancreatitis, in the book im reading at the moment the vet suggest Raw Brisket bone or Mutton flaps as they are ideal because the dog needs to really use their teeth to crack crush & tear these down to small pieces, their gums & teeth benefit enormously from this activity. I dont know what a brisket bone is or what’s a mutton flap, but the rib bones sounds good, Ive seen BBQ ribs u can slice 1 off, but mite be a bit small for Patch it would be gone in 1 minute. I’d have to have a look at them all at the butchers & ask the butcher what meat bones would have the least fat beef, lamb or pork, also does anyone pour boiling hot water over the bone to kill any germs & bacteria….

[Bobby dog]

Jakes mom:
Even though the bones were cut small I think they were weight bearing bones as well. Oh well, all is well and now I know better.

I was sad when my JRT outgrew her toys and jealous when my friend’s dogs never outgrew that phase. Now I have Bobby and I think he will forever be a puppy. He loves all of his toys; in the house he carries them around all of the time. He goes absolutely nuts at Christmas when he gets them. I wrap them up and he goes crazy tearing off the paper because he knows what’s in there. I always tell him to grow up! lol

[jakes mom]

BCnut, I got some “scrap bones for stewing” I believe they are beef vertebrae , had a decent bit of meat on them. Jake loved it, worked on it for almost 2 hours. He finally lost interest ( or just got tired!) and it was getting kind of small so I decided to err on the side of caution and threw the last of it away.

[jakes mom]

Bobby dog, I think you’re right, I’m enjoying this too much!! lol! I didn’t buy what they advertise as “soup bones” because they are the weight bearing bones we’ve been warned about, too hard for teeth plus marrow is so fatty. Jake doesn’t chew toys anymore, he used to like his squeaky plush things but now if it’s not edible he’s not interested!

[Bobby dog]

Jakes mom:
I am not sure who is enjoying the RMB’s more at this point, you or Jake! lol I have tried some soup bones before; I am not even sure if they are appropriate. This was before I took an interest in what I was feeding Bobby and my cats.

Bobby’s a funny little dude because chewing on the bone or eating the raw meat off of it didn’t really interest him, he just wanted to bury them. He buries anything you give him outside though, even biscuits. He doesn’t even chew on bullysticks. He does chew like a maniac on his squeaky or plush toys. He’s four years old and has the most beautiful white teeth you have ever seen and I do not brush them.

I am still going to go for the beef heart but what I am really interested in trying is a turkey neck. Maybe a different texture may interest him, IDK. I will check out everything that is out though because you never know what you will come across.

These updates make me want to go grocery shopping sooner! Thank you so much for the updates though, they are helpful for me!!!! 😉

[jakes mom]

Bobby dog, Jake had a beef bone tonite and he loved it! Either he likes beef more than chicken or he’s just more used to raw now but he had no hesitation about it like he did when I first gave him a chicken back. I’m not sure what kind of bone it was. It was packaged as “scrap bones for stewing”. Had a decent amount of meat on it. I think it was a cow vertebrae by the looks of it. The cats enjoyed some of the meat, too. Beef is a hit at my house I guess! Next time, pork ribs maybe! You should try giving Bobby a nice meaty bone, this one kept Jake busy and happy for almost 2 hours!

[jakes mom]

OK, thanks BCnut. I am just looking for stuff to give the dog and cats more as a healthy treat as opposed to really “feeding raw” so not worried about calcium or other nutrients, still counting on the kibble to supply that. I have been looking at just raw stuff like the bones, hearts and gizzards, chicken backs and chicken and beef liver. I’ve seen a lot of smoked hocks and knew not to give anything like that so was interested when I saw the fresh hocks. Have noticed that a lot of the chicken parts are “enhanced” so have avoided that as well.

[theBCnut]

If you were starting a raw diet, I would recommend consumable bones and yes, we do feed raw chicken bones, as well as turkey, duck, quail, etc., just not cooked. But for a kibble fed dog that needs some chewing satisfaction and some teeth cleaning, I recommend rib bones, pork, lamb, goat, beef. These bones are pretty safe for your dog to eat the whole thing, if he really loves chewing, but they provide a bit more challenge, so do a great job on teeth. You can get a slab of ribs and ask the butcher to cut them into individual ribs. Whole beef ribs are probably a bit big for your dog so you would want to have him cut those in half unless you find short ribs. Give one a couple times a week.

[Zohar F]

Hi there – I’m a vegetarian who has never stepped into a butcher shop or eaten meat since I was a kid. I’m not opposed to feeding raw dog bones (I do feed meat based dog foods), and I keep reading about the benefits of raw bones, but I have no clue where to start. I understand you go to the butcher – but what bones do I ask for? My vet told me to ask the butcher to cut a beef knuckle into quarters and give that to Penny, but then I read knuckles are bad and too hard and can break teeth. Marrow bones are good and bad. Soup bones are good and bad. Never feed weight bearing bones. Never feed chicken bones but then do feed chicken necks, backs and thighs? I AM SO CONFUSED. I’m scared to walk into the butcher shop and ask him what to feed because what if he gives me the wrong bone.

I just bought a smoked ham bone at the pet store which I was told is different from cooked – but I took it away after reading horror stories online that smoked is the same as cooked.

Can someone give me a definitive answer on what to give Penny? She’s a 25-30 pound terrier mix who loves to chew. She gets high quality kibble – so I’m more searching for recreational bones that will keep her busy, clean her teeth and not break her teeth (although nutritional benefits are welcome). What types of bones do I ask the butcher for? Detailed answers much appreciated!

[theBCnut]

They say that the way conventionally raised pork is raised now days, you shouldn’t have all the worries that you used to. That’s why they recently changed cooking recommendations on pork. I still play it conservative and freeze all pork products. And same thing with hocks, be aware of the amount of bone and fat in them. Hocks are leg(weight bearing) bones so I don’t feed them as a source of calcium. I don’t have to wory about my dogs breaking teeth on them and definitely not the cats, but some avid chewers might be at risk.

As far as what not to feed, look for what is included in with the meat. I don’t feed things that are brined, brothed, nitrated, etc. Occasionally, I’ll get pork ribs that have some added salt, but that is rare. I try to not get anything that has stuff added to it, so no ham, no preseasoned meats, etc.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by theBCnut.

[Susan]

You’ll start to see a difference within 3 weeks with their skin but I believe you must also treat the outside with weekly baths with a real good oatmeal base shampoo + conditioner, I found that Malaseb medicated shampoo to be the best & I use Blackmores PAW (Pure Animal Wellbeing) Nutriderm Replenshing conditioner.. I lighty rinse off as you can leave the conditioner on to moisturise their skin .. as soon as I see Patch really scratching I bath him but since using Paw Nutriderm conditioner as well as the Malaseb shampoo Patch hasnt needed his weekly bath…
Oh Shasta I wanted to ask you do you have a good biscuit or treat recipe that’s low fat & no carbs, a limited ingredient biscuit, Im trying to put some weight on Patch as he has Pancreatitis, its hard to keep his weight steady, he’s only 16 kilos, he use to be 19-20kilos, I like my Staffys to look chunky like a little nugget, people say he looks good but I see his rib bones, he needs to gain 2-3 kilos & its so hard when he has to have a low fat diet & low carbs cause of his itch…Thank-You..

[Susan]

How do you know its food allergies?? You sure they dont have Enviornment allergies, My boy gets itchy red paws & itchy skin & he has enviornment allergies, only 1-5% of dogs will have true food allergies, Im reading a book at the moment & its rare for dogs to have food allergies, Dr Rob Zammit writes, the number of dogs that really have a food allergy is fewer than the number of dogs diagnosed with the condition, far too often, if a dog has a non-seasonal propensity to scratch it is diagnosed as having a food allergy without proper testing..the only way you’ll know if its food is you must do an elimination diet, A reasonable elimination diet is cooked rice & lamb, no snacking inbetween meals,.In the case of true food allergy improvement will be seen after 7 days with the dogs skin looking normal by the end of 3 weeks. If ur dogs improve on an elimination diet it could be useful to include additives such as polyunsaturated oil, omega oils & other natural oils found in various herbs, the critical thing is to add only 1 additive at a time. The best starting point is omega oils add this a the recommended dose for aleast 6 weeks , if there’s no deterioration in symtoms then add another additive can be given if the lamb & rice is working then the next additive should be in the form of raw bone, these must be sheep origin, so use mutton flaps, lamb necks or brisketbones from sheep again no other additives must be given for another 6 weeks. You may want to pick another meat, but only use the raw meaty bones from that animal….also bathing should be done weekly with a good oatmeal base shampoo too keep the oils in the skin, if ur using all those product they are not working maybe its a time for a change with products, I use Malaseb medicated shampoo & I saw an improvement within 3 weeks, skin started growing back also Blackmores has a excellent dog range called Paw (Pure Animal wellbeing) I also uses the Paw Nutriderm replenishing conditioner this can be left on the skin moisturising the skin weekly… The basis of the diet could become a good quality super premium dry food as long as the ingredients are similar to those used during the elimnation diet…

[Shasta220]

Back to the subject of dental chews, I guess I do use them on occasion. Here is the ingredients of the ones I sometimes buy:

Potato flour, rice flour, glycerine, water, natural flavor, gelatin, canola oil, titanium dioxide (color), monoglycerides of edible fatty acids, flaxseed oil, citric acid, magnesium stearate, tetrasodium pyrophosphate

They’re called Checkups, sold at Costco. The size is prob medium (easy to split in half), great size for a 30+lb dog. Not the best ingredients, but I like how there are under 20…

Plus the price is hard to beat. 24 for $11…. Greenies and other dental chews are around 1-3$ for a similar sized chew.

Usually I give them to my older girl as she dislikes bully sticks, and bones are too hard on her since she has a chipped molar on one side, and no molar on the other.

[Naturella]

I agree with Carlyn (Shasta220). And I actually think the NutriDent ingredients are not THAT bad, I know what more of the ingredients mean than those in Milkbone for example. Before I knew all I do now, we bought Bruno a bag of the Nylabone equivalent of Greenies, NutriDent for puppies, and aside from making his stool green, they didn’t cause him any discomfort, but I doubt they cleaned his teeth at all. Once I learned about bully sticks and other dehydrated natural chews and raw meaty bones, I would not get him any of those commercial “dental” treats ever again. 🙂

[Suburban Gal]

As for the ingredients of Greenies being bad for dogs, just took at the ingredients for their competitors:

Nutri Dent dental chews:
Wheat Starch, Glycerin, Powdered Cellulose, Lecithin, Natural Flavor, Chlorophyll, Parsley & Soy Flour. Vitamins: Thiamin, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin B-6, Folic Acid, Vitamin A. Vitamin E, Biotin, Choline, Inositol & PABA. Minerals: Calcium Carbonate, Ferrous Carbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Chloride, Zinc Oxide, Copper Oxide, Manganese Oxide & Sodium Molybdate. Omega Fatty Acids: Omega-3 Fatty Acid & Omega-6 Fatty Acid.

Milk Bone brushing chews:
Rice, Modified Food Starch, Chicken By-Product Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Water, Propylene Glycol, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Bone Phosphate, Calcium Sulfate, Gelatin, Animal Digest, Phosphoric Acid, Potassium Sorbate (Used As A Preservative), Smoke Flavor, Titanium Dioxide (Color), Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Yellow 6, Yellow 5, BHA (Used As A Preservative).

If you look closely enough, some of the same ingredients in Greenies are ALSO used in that of their competitor’s dental chews.

I took the liberty of checking the ingredients of Zuke’s Z-Bones. While the ingredients looked a lot better than the ingredients in Greenies, Nutri Dent and the like, I still think something like Zinc Propionate can’t be very good. Heck, I don’t even know what that is! (Would someone care to enlighten me?)

To be quite honest, it’s better to give your dog something than nothing at all and, as expensive as dental chews are, at least someone is making a good effort even if it’s not as good as Zuke’s Z-Bones.

I can’t wait for Zuke’s Z-Bones to receive the VOHC® Seal of Acceptance. IMHO, that means a little more to me as a pet owner.

[pugmomsandy]

You’re welcome. And I forgot to say that you can also check with your local restaurant supply store. Some are open to the public. For instance, I can buy directly from Ben E. Keith and Bassham both of which supply restaurants in my area. Also let any friends who hunt know that you would like their scraps or any organ meats/bones or freezer burned items.

[jakes mom]

Bobby dog, that’s exactly what I had read, to not worry if Mom’s not at the nest, they only come a few times a day. But I was so surprised that he actually gave it to me! With my other dogs I would have had to pry their mouth open!
I’m hoping Jake will do well with the bones. I would like him to do the bones if nothing else to help with his teeth. He had it this afternoon, before dinner. I gave him a little less kibble but I have no idea what the chicken would equal as far as calories. Maybe BCnut can advise us on that aspect?

[Susan]

When health problems start with dogs the dog tells us, if she just wants wet food, I’d give her wet food instead of kibble..Kibble is hard & its harder to digest, maybe its not agreeing with her like it once did when she was younger, My boy has Chronic Pancreatitis it took me 6 months & another vet to find out he had Pancreatitis.. but I notice when I give him his cooked chicken breast pumkin & egg for breakfast he’s happier, playing being naughty but when he has his kibble he’s a different dog quiet doesnt play & looks miserable…then I read that kibble isnt good for dogs with Pancreatitis they need softer foods, foods that are easier to digest.. Im not saying ur girl has Pancreatitis, she may need something that’s easier to digest now ..Wellness has a good Senior wet food called Complete Health, its low in fat & good protein.. Also Holistic Select has a good Senior health kibble that is low in fat & fiber & has Glucosaimine she’ll need for her bones…as dogs get older they need less fiber & fat & more protein..

[Steve K]

Need some advice for some good large breed puppy food Irish Wolfhound to be exact. Should it have glucosamine and chondroitin? Needs to promote rapid growth with healthy bones and joints.

[Akari_32]

Of course they do! LOL

https://www.purina.com/dogs/understanding-dog-food/new-study-supports-grains-for-dogs

I’d also like to point out that dogs don’t have crushing molars like *horses* do. They have pointed molars for gripping and crunching bones and meat. There’s nothing flat about the top of a dogs teeth! To compare a dogs mouth to a horses mouth is completely ridiculous! Ooh Purina, you so speshel…

[InkedMarie]

Oh, I’m ordering, next week. I love Hare Today but money IS an issue and free shipping and being able to order less is big,for me. My husband isn’t into prey model raw but he’s ok as long as it’s ground. I won’t do the pre measured, just ground with some added tripe and. Bones for dental health.

Is your shipping next day or two day? Is everything frozen when it arrives?

[satobrinn]

Just when I thought I was doing the right thing! I use a company in ME that will pre-measure a variety of meats using the prey model, and they offer the option of raw meaty bones with each meal or a bone-in option. She isn’t a super gulper, but I’m still worried about her choking on a bone and thought I would switch to the bone-in option. This is an interesting point which leaves me wondering what I should do. I also use salmon oil and some say that too should be avoided. I would consider rotating oils, but I wouldn’t want to cut out salmon oil entirely.

[theBCnut]

Any raw is better than no raw. I know several people who don’t feed any raw except raw meaty bones 2 or 3 times a week for teeth, but they have notied improved coat too.

If your cats will eat raw, it is definitely better for them to get some raw. Mine would not eat chunks, but I got some whole prey grinds from Hare Today that they will eat. They won’t eat more than about 1 oz. at a time each though, never a full meal, which is funny because they both hunt bunnies and eat them whole.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Jakes mom:
If you get any recommendations for feeding raw to your kitties, would you mind posting it on this thread? I won’t be switching to a complete raw diet since I don’t have the freezer space, but I have enough freezer space to accomodate a dog and five cats for a few meals each per week if they like it. I honestly haven’t taken the time to look into feeding raw to my kitties, but I always like reading about everyone’s experiences as well as any suggestions someone might have.

I am going to see if Bobby likes turkey necks. He has beautiful teeth at four, but I would like to try and interest him in chewing bones. When I give him a bone the first thing he does is run off to bury it. He doesn’t even eat the fresh meat on it, he’s more interested in burying the bone than eating it. Maybe a turkey neck will be more appealing, who knows.

C4c let me know about a website earlier this week, catsadored.com. We were discussing litter boxes earlier in this thread, don’t know if you read any of it. Anyway, this guy has an interesting suggestion for litter that he feels is comparable to “The World’s Best Cat Litter,” which I have never used so IDK. I think I am going to give it a try this summer just to try it. Check it out if you have time.

Akari:
I have been referring to your cat by Gary and Roger, sorry. Which one is it again?

[Akari_32]

That’s what I’m saying, he’s no had any bones and meat to gnaw on since I got him.

I will! I’m also gunna make him some meat-water (omnomnomnom!). 🙂

[Bobby dog]

I have to write that I am very cautious as to the treats I feed my guys. That was part of Bobby’s skin problem. Along with feeding canned Pedigree I was feeding bad treats. As soon as I stopped feeding them, his skin quickly improved. No more itchiness, redness, or foul odors! lol Poor little guy. I have been making bisquits here and there for Bobby, other than that I freeze the meat that comes off of the bones when I make the bone broth and use that for treats.

As far as cleaning a cats teeth, I have been lucky and never had any issues. I gently remove any tarter with my finger nails when I do see it.

I asked Shasta a question a few days ago about the raw food she wrote that she fed her cats. She mentioned it on one of the threads recently. We need to track her down and find out what she feeds and how it is working out for her. I wouldn’t mind trying raw meat with the bone, but I am also interested in a cut of meat for teeth cleaning without bone for my older kitty who’s teeth are a little questionable; he just lost one recently. Maybe she would have some recommendations for us.