[Dori]

I should first inform you Jennifer that I am a commercial raw feeder so I wouldn’t cook, warm up or microwave any food I’m feeding my three dogs. But as Sandy has stated, and she would know better than I would, if bones are truly finely ground up then I guess you could cook them or warm them up in your microwave which is basically cooking them. That, to me, basically negates the reason for feeding a commercial or home raw diet.

I didn’t see the mention of AAFCO though I’m glad you did. I found their site a bit time consuming and not particularly easy to get around. I do have a problem in that their food is as inexpensive as it is and that shipping is free. Though I live in Georgia, not anywhere near their manufacturing plant, they say than can FedX my orders free of charge over night. As I said earlier, something just seems off to me but I’m not sure what. I’m going to call the company tomorrow and get some answers to some questions I have and I’ll post back here.

It also concerned me where it was mentioned the amount of fat in the calorie count. I really do need a review of this food from Dr. Mike and his team before I would ever feed it to my dogs.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by Dori.

[Cotons mom]

Beverly, I have two cottons, 1 1/2yr old, and I have had the same problem with the eye staining their whole life. I feed only raw, and pretty much the identical ones that Dori listed and they only get filtered water and if they get treats they get either fruit/veges or small pieces of freeze dried food. They do get bully sticks and raw bones from time to time. I’ve tried the sardines in water but neither one will eat them. My husband is very frustrated with the staining and has even said that he wants to try the stuff called Angel Eyes but I don’t have a good feeling with any of that stuff.
They are due their “shots” and I’m wondering about getting titers for some, and wonder if their is anything out there for heart worms besides stuff like heart guard.

[joyce h]

Hi Everyone, I’m Joyce and I am also new to the forum…ready to learn and exchange ideas. I’m a positive dog trainer that used to feed her dogs raw years ago and stopped for some unremembered reason. I’m BACK!! A lot had changed in the arena.
At another trainers recommendation I’m trying a raw food called “Tucker’s’ (www.tuckersraw.com). I looked it up on DFA and it’s not listed…so, don’t really know what that means…has anyone heard of it? It’s complete and balanced.

I also bought a 3/4 horse power grinder (that can easily grind any and all chicken bones) in hopes of making some raw ‘patties’ to freeze of my own. Bought Dr Karen Becker’s book on Raw Food , but hadn’t yet actually tired any specific recipe yet. I’ve been watching her on YouTube speaking on raw food and it’s advantages.
I noted that she was against mixing raw and kibble together as it moves thru the short digestive track at different rates which is not good for proper absorption…just an informational thought 🙂
So…is anyone grinding their own raw dog food and freezing it? I understand that if you do this you will need to add supplements for sure for it to be complete and balanced.
Looks like a great forum…thanks for any comments or help you can give…Joyce

[Dog_Obsessed]

Yay! Someone finally made a dog toy topic! 😀 Anyway, Lily has waaay too many toys. A toy for me is a toy for her, so I tend to be pretty generous in my toy-buying. She has a Busy Buddy Barnacle that she gets her kibble from, that she loves rolling around the room. She has a few other treat despising toys, all made of rubber, and a bunch of soft squeaky ones. There is also a old water bottle that I put in a sock that I give to her for supervised play, which she loves. We have some softer Nylabones, which she will occasionally chew. The only kind of toy she doesn’t like are treat-despencing toys that are plastic, or wobble a bit towards her. We tried the Kong Wobbler, (which we donated) and the IQ Treat Ball (that’s going back to the pet store.) I think she is scared of the bobbling motion and the sound the plastic makes, so we’ll stick with rubber and cloth toys for now.

[Melissaandcrew]

My house is full of toys, but with 15 it’s hard to decide which is a favorite and of who, lol. Stuffed toys with squeaker are always popular here, nylabones, natural bones etc. They don’t seem to like ropes on their own, but if the arms and legs of a stuffed toy are ropes, they live them.

[Pam P]

I feed my dog Answers fermented raw food and kefir. My son’s Mastiff mix had such itchy skin she had to go on antibiotics for a wound she scratched raw that wouldn’t heal. I started her for one month on Nature’s Logic Sardine. Nature’s Logic is one of a very few that doesn’t use synthetic vitamins and minerals. The synthetic vitamins and minerals come mostly from industrial waste such as coal tar for one. They aren’t good for humans and they aren’t good for pets. She started detoxifying on Nature’s Logic. Then I put her on Answers Fermented Raw food for a month. The itching became less. Now she is on only Kefir for a month and her itching has just about stopped. The kefir is a detox diet. She hasn’t lost weight. Her energy is 300% higher. I’ll see how she does after another 2 weeks to see if we gradually get her back on food or keep her on kefir for another 2 weeks. The key is to clean and detoxify the system and then to make sure the immune system is strengthened. Allergies are an immune system issue. I also give my dogs organic extra virgin coconut oil, sardine oil, pumpkin seed oil, and royal jelly. Royal jelly is excellent for the skin and coat. Its what the queen bee is fed. I learned that from an owner of champion show dogs. I have also given them canned sardines. Frozen sardines can be purchased in bulk online. They have small bones which are loaded with calcium. If I was going to feed kibble, I would lean towards Nature’s Logic or one that doesn’t use synthetic vitamins and minerals. They are a little lower on the meat, so I would add gizzards and some raw meat to it, preferably a balanced frozen meat. There are several to chose from….Nature’s Logic, Primal, Instinct, and others. I hope this gives you some ideas.

[GSDsForever]

But you started this with a concern for digestibility, good absorption of nutrients, stool size, and gas. So I wanted to comment on that.

“I don’t know if having more animal protein versus plant protein would help her digest the nutrients and poop/have gas less?”

In short, no. It is the quality of the individual ingredients, what they are and their grade, that affect digestibility as they go into a formula. You’re also playing a balancing game with some ingredients, between rich in nutrients and greater digestibility. From there, processing matters. It can affect overall digestibility and preservation of nutrients. Finally freshness of ingredients going into the formula and from date of manufacture to purchase and use are very important.

I would highly recommend calling the company of the the foods you’re considering, as well as the one you’ve been feeding (Infinia) and asking for Total Dry Matter Digestibility, plus digestibility of protein, fat, and carbs.

The Infinia is rather low in protein, lower than I personally would feel comfortable feeding. But that isn’t the problem when looking at nutrient absorption and digestibility. But when the protein IS very low, then it becomes even more critical to ensure that it is very high quality and highly digested.

Since Infinia Holistic Salmon & Sweet Potato’s primary ingredients are ones that look good and CAN be highly digestible . . .

Salmon, Menhaden fish meal, sweet potatoes, potatoes

it may the grade of ingredients and/or processing that is problematic.

Fish meal, for example, comes in MANY different grades at VERY different price points to pet food companies. It can be very high ash & bones, leftover carcass material or low ash/high protein & high digestibility and come from good cuts included or whole fish with most bone filtered out, which costs the company considerably more and is harder to source. It also, by AAFCO definition, can be stripped of its oil (which is sold separately at profit, rather than going into the food) or have those precious Omega 3s left in. This formula appears to be very low in Omega 3, particularly for a fish formula, and even though it has been already boosted by plant oil (Canola). Reasons for fish formulas to be low in Omega 3 tend to be the meal has been stripped of its oils and/or use of farmed salmon. Salmon varieties also range greatly in Omega 3 content!

Canola oil is not going to be as digestible and its nutrients absorbed well in order to be used by your dog vs., say, salmon oil or an animal fat. (I personally don’t like canola oil anyway, as it’s not a very clean ingredient. In commercial use, it is generally high heat and chemical processed, damaged, and and contaminated.) Potatoes, sweet potatoes can include skins or not, etc. affecting digestibility and stool volume.

Foods cooked for less time and at lower temperatures preserve more nutrients. And gentle cooking both increases digestibility and nutrient absorbability in ingredients and nutrients AND decreases them compared to raw, depending on the ingredient or nutrient.

Consider how fresh the ingredients are, how fresh from date of manufacture, how it was stored and transported prior to getting to you, and how properly sealed the bags are. (From there, you must also store foods properly.) Actually smell the food.

But just to give you an example of how you can never tell with things like digestibility from the price and marketing/popularity of a product or just looking at the ingredient list of a “better” brand — Orijen’s 6 Fish formula has a pretty poor overall dry matter digestibility for a premium brand and is in fact the lowest among their formulas. It’s also lower than the cheap bulk bags from Costco, Nature’s Domain (by Diamond).

[Akari_32]

Holy cheap!!! The bags I have were going for $15 each on PetFlow (5-7 in a bag). I grabbed them on sale for a few cents, each, however.

Haley and Dweezle prefer bones they actually have to work on. Tracheas would be too boring. They’d chomp them down and then come back for more! LOL I’ll have to remember that website next I want to buy them though. Bentley really loved the stuffed one I gave him the other day. After he finished with it, he passed out for a few hours! Wore him right out, which is seriously saying something lol

[theBCnut]

If you didn’t crush all of the bones, I would worry that they didn’t all cook as thoroughly. Withhold all food and water for at least 6 hours. If she shows no further sign of vomiting, give her 1 or 2 ice cubes. If that doesn’t cause her to start vomiting again, after 2 hours, you can give her 1/2 cup of water. If that doesn’t start her vomiting, after 2 more hours you can start allowing her free access to water. Do not feed her anything until she has not vomited for at least 12 hours, then offer only 1/4 of a normal meal max, just a few pieces at first would be better.

Watch closely for diarrhea. If she has watery diarrhea, then she may have a blockage and it’s important for her to be seen by a vet ASAP.

[Lori C]

I have an older (about 9 years old), Australian Shepherd mix. We also have a younger Golden Retriever.

The other day, I had a bright idea, to pressure cook the chicken bones from a chicken I had cooked in the slow cooker.

I pressure cooked all of the bones until they could be smashed easily between my fingers.

I poured a couple Tablespoons of the broth and bones on top of each dogs dry kibble.

They loved it so much that a I did it 3 days in a row.

This morning, our Australian Shepherd mix started throwing up clear liquid, and bits of grass.
She is lethargic, her nose is dry, and she is not eating.

***The last time I fed her the chicken bones and broth was yesterday February 25th, 2015.
She was fine all day yesterday, and last night.

She started throwing up this morning.

We are snowed in, in Knoxville. I can’t get her to a vet until tomorrow morning.

I would appreciate any feedback from the forum members.

Thank you in advance,

• This topic was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Fix Duplicate Topic Title

[Heather H]

I took in a stray yorkie mix just before christmas. She was in heat and running with a pack of large dogs who were fighting over her. I took her in to protect her and she is the sweetest girl. I have been feeding her and my other dog iams healthy naturals chicken and barley recipe which has 4 stars. I am on a fixed income and have low funds. She is about 10 lbs, not a toy dog and she had her puppies last friday. She had 6. Overnight she became skin and bones. She may have been underweight pregnant and I didn’t notice as her stomach was so large. Her coat is long silky and healthy and she is fine on energy but when I pet her she feels like a skeleton under all the fur. I get money on friday and in the meantime I boiled a pork roast with a lb of ground beef fresh green beans and carrots and added lentil and quinoa to try to get her extra calories. What I need to know is what is a good reasonable puppy food to try to put weight on her as she will have to eat a separate food from the other dog and I can’t spend more than $30 for the month on her and puppies, other dog has very sensitive stomach and the iams is the only food where his coat doesn’t get patchy and he doesn’t have poo storms:)

[crazy4cats]

I was going by this that was posted in the Whole Dog Journal:
Here are my sardine recommendations for adult dogs. Feed twice this much to puppies and pregnant or lactating females.

Dog’s 3.75-oz can
Weight sardines
5 lbs 1/4 can per week
15 lbs 1/2 can per week
25 lbs 5/8 can per week
50 lbs 1 can per week
100 lbs 1 3/4 cans per week

A 3.75-ounce can of sardines has about 200 calories, so reduce the amount of dry food given on “sardine days” accordingly. Rule of thumb: One can of sardines in water has about the same number of calories as ½ cup of most dog foods.

You can substitute canned wild Alaska pink salmon (the bones are edible), oysters (a great source of zinc, especially important for pregnant and lactating females), and other fresh, frozen, or canned wild ocean fish for sardines. Pacific oysters are probably better than Gulf of Mexico oysters, especially after the BP oil spill in 2010, and safer than canned oysters from China. Never feed raw salmon or trout, especially Pacific salmon, because it may contain a bacterium that can kill dogs.
But…. now, I’ve pulled up my ABC diet and it does show two cans per week. So how about 1 1/2! LOL!

Here is the link to the whole dog journal: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_12/features/Fats-Chance_20658-1.html

Either way, it is great that you are considering adding them to your dog’s food. Good luck!

[Oleanderz]

Narutrella- Yeah, those Trixie puzzle games are amazing! We have like two, I believe she has fun with them, either that or she just plays with them to get the snacks. Yeah maybe, according to the sizes that I’ve been buying for K9AII- she’d be in the large breed, I suppose. I’ll go with that! lol.
The 28-lb bags of EB usually last her about 2 1/2 months, sometimes longer. With the “free feeding” methods that they’ve been unintentionally doing she doesn’t go through food as much. I actually just recently bought a 28-lb bag that we haven’t even touched yet. She seems to really like the half cooked eggs and sardines mixed in with her EB:GP.
30-lb bags are cool, it’ll just give her more time to get adjusted to the food, I’ll probably try to get her used to that brand over the summer. Thanks for the book, I’ll look it thank you!! I may have to hurry and get her on a better food regimen. She looks to be a 4 almost a 5. I’d like to put a little more muscle on her bones. My vet says she’s completely healthy, but I think Lucille and I both need to begin our new years resolution to start eating better. I appreciate all the helpful links and tips!! (; w ; )<3 Thank you!

[aquariangt]

If there hasn’t been a problem, great. If you want a chew that is one of those proteins, try salmon skin bones, duck feet or necks. Or try sweet potato chews to avoid the protein altogether.

[lovemypuppy]

I was scolded by the vet tech for giving my 11 week old boston terrier puppy a catfish skin chew (Beam, by The Honest Kitchen).

Initially the tech called it salmon and told me my puppy didn’t need fish oil. I corrected her, letting her know it was catfish skin chews and that I thought they were a good choice because they were more digestible than other chews out there (I ignored her comment on fish oil because I didn’t want to get into an argument with her). She said the fat content of the catfish skin chews was too high and would put my puppy at risk of developing pancreatitis. She also said to only give Nylabones.

I later discussed with a different tech at a different vet office hoping to get some clarification, but unfortunately they too were leery of the high fat content for the same reason. They added that small dog breeds, and BT in particular, were at increased risk of pancreatitis.

Has anyone else heard this in regards to Beams being too rich in fat for a puppy or dogs at risk of pancreatitis?

Do Beams actually have a high fat content? Looking at their packaging it doesn’t appear so (min protein 88%, min fat 4%, moisture 8%). The freeze dried Orijen treats we were giving for house training have quite a bit more fat. So now, I’m really confused on how much fat is OK.

• This topic was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by lovemypuppy.
• This topic was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by lovemypuppy.

[brit]

I use eggshells for calcium if I am cooking the meat or using raw meat without bones. We use organic eggs for ourselves and our pets so I collect at least 6 eggshells, rinse the shells with cool water and leave to dry overnight. I put them in my little Braun coffee grinder (also handy for grinding dry herbs etc) and grind them to a powdery consistency. Use approx 1/2tsp per lb of meat. If I give chicken necks that morning (usually give them at least twice a week)I don’t worry about calcium that evening I buy Wholistic Pet Canine Complete and use on the food (I use half the dose that they suggest) as a supplement plus some herbs that I grind and add. During the winter I give a tsp of Carlsons Cod Liver Oil (unflavored) a couple times a week (its low in A and D which is good as some is way to high). I make all my own dog food but often cook and also often feed raw (usually Primal raw). So if I am buying something like Primal I don’t need to add calcium because it has bone ground in. Usually breakfast is cooked sweet potato/plain goat yogurt/raw egg yolk although often I buy canned Alaskan salmon, rinse it and use a small amount. Then evening meal is either the Primal with crushed raw veggies (I put them through my Greenstar Juicer which has a gadget that allows them to come through whole but crushed) or cooked meat with the veggies. If I have a dog that needs to gain weight I throw in some organic oat flakes while meat is cooking.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by brit.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by brit.

[mountainhound]

Interesting results. Have you beef feeding whole prey including bones? ground raw won’t clean teeth or improve breath since they are not crunching on bone. I’ve never heard of a dog becoming aggressive on a raw diet either. Sometimes they go through a detox period of about 2-3 months which can create mood variations, so thats always a possibility.

[Lyndel M]

Hi Gloria,

Yes, there is certainly a lot of confusion amongst the raw and the cooked dog food camps. I have been reading heaps about it. Those in the raw food camp put forward for the raw food diet. I shall do my best to summarise a few of the key points that are important to me. First, they say that the dog’s metabolism has changed very little from the wolves, the original wild dogs. They suggest that when we provide our dogs with the right proportions of meats, organ meats, vegetables, fruit matter and bones, they’re digestive systems have the best chance of exacting the nutrients they need for shiny coats, healthier skin and teeth, stronger bones, and decreased chances of modern-day ailments and diseases that dogs in the wild rarely if ever have. Some of these ailments include itching, skin irritations, including dryness, fleas, hip dysplasia and arthritis.

In the other camp, there is some criticism of the raw diet saying that giving a dog only food i.e., meats risks feeding contaminated food, that people don’t take enough care in raw food preparation, that dogs today have evolved to adjust to modern (cooked, commercial) food and that dogs are at moderate – high risk of injuries from bone which become lodged in the throat or gut.

I am definitely against using any commercial dog foods. There are some great you-tube documentaries disclosing the shocking truth about the poor quality of nutrition of kibble and canned dog foods and the associated illnesses. In addition, that most Vets receive very little real knowledge of nutrition in their veterinarian studies and are just as influenced by the unregulated marketing and commercial dog food producers as GPs are by drug companies.

Regardless, Jean Hofve & Celeste Yarnall “Paleo Dog” is one book that has been recommended provide excellent information for providing your dog with all of the information needed to provide our dogs with all of the nutrients required and how to do so, if we want to go down the raw food pathway. Also there is the BARF raw foods that you can purchase and other online info about this pathway. And there are heaps of recipes for cooking our dogs food as well. Andi Brown “The Whole Pet Diet: 8 wks to great health for dogs and cats”, which is also excellent for going down the cooked food pathway. They both recommend certain supplements and they both provide enough evidence to suggest that just like for humans, if we give our pets fresh wholesome, organic foods (either raw or cooked) we will be doing our beloved pets a great service.

Given I have been a passionate advocate of healthy, unprocessed foods for more 40years, I certainly want to extend this to my pet. People on this post have just been concerned that I was being cruel to our new puppy for placing his food into chewtoys. However, I made the mistake of saying that we would be putting all of his daily foods into chewtoys, whereas that won’t be the case. But I will definitely using chewtoys together with crate training, self-soothing, stimulation and entertainment as I mentioned in my previous post. I am definitely not an expert, but a concerned pet owner who has done lots and lots of reading in order to do the best by our new puppy in terms of nutrition and training. All the best!! :0)

[Kristin C]

BulldogMom-I make most of my dogs food and if you are looking for a chicken recipe here is one.

30% breasts
30% thighs
5% liver
15% gizzards
5% pureed vegs and/or fruit
15% pumpkin
If you are not adding a supplement with calcium then add 1/2 tsp ground eggshell per lb of meat.

Please note that this is not all you can feed in the long term. I feed beef with many organs, plus a variety of other proteins/organs and raw meaty bones, plus sardines. Hope that helps.

[Lyndel M]

While I wouldn’t be giving my pup raw food until my holistic vet approved of it, I would encourage you to have a look at Ian Dunbar’s e-book “After you get your puppy”
http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/downloads/AFTER_You_Get_Your_Puppy.pdf. While I can understand that you think putting a certain amount of a puppy’s daily portion of food into a stuffable chew toy is cruel, I thought so too until I began doing my own research about dog training and teaching a pet good manners right from the beginning rather than focusing on what he does wrong (i.e., like ending up chewing things he shouldn’t be). Also, there are many benefits to placing a portion of the pups daily food allowance in chewtoys. For example, it entertains and stimulates them (in the wild, dogs naturally have to work for their food, even chewing the meat off of bones), it is a highly effective means of providing the pup appropriate things to chew on especially when teething, and it offers soothing and teaches them to self-soothe and entertain themselves rather than always expect you to entertain them. By the way, none of these are my own ideas, as I said, this comes from my own extensive research. But what you do and feed your own pups and beloved pets is your own choice. Good luck with it!

[Peggy]

I just opened a can of Pink Salmon and it was FULL of bones!
I couldn’t feed my dog these bones, so will go through it and get out as many as I can.

Is there such a think as de-boned salmon?
Google, here I come!

[Naturella]

BCnut, I was thinking that too! Bruno is great practice for my future baby/child-rearing skills, lol!

I think that unless blood/bones/organs are coming out of him in any way; a bone is clearly broken, or he is obviously in a lot of pain or unresponsive, I shouldn’t actually “freak out”. I would be worried if he’s not feeling well, but I will just read up on it, watch him, let him rest, check if he takes food/water, and write here or call the vet to consult. If any of the above “freak out” conditions are present, I will take him straight to the emergency vet or our vet, depending on the time. And, of course, freak out. lol

[Lyndel M]

Try buying a dehydrater. They are great. You can dehydrate your own raw treats for you dog. You can puree vegetables or fruits and spread out on a dehydrating sheet, then roll into balls or small pieces and stuff into stuffable chew toys. You can also dehydrate fresh meats, raw meatloaf, fish etc. I also make stock from organ meats and bones (no salt) and freeze into kongs as well as adding fruit, veggies or meats into the liquid and freeze into kongs in summer. Goats cheese which is lactose free is good as is quinoa cookies broken up. I also make meat pastes which I stuff along those stuffable chew toys that have groves along the sides, so they can lick it out and get interested in what’s on the inside. Hope these suggestions help, mind you, they are not my own, they are an accumulation of what I have gathered from my own research.

[Kimi_forever]

One time our local petco had cans of instinct and wellness for like .15-50cents a can and we stocked up on a bunch only to bring it home and the cats not eat it and us have to give it away…ill have to try and find ways to get some decent cans for cheaper, i was pricing what it would cost to feed weruva, and that would be like 70$ a cat for a 24 day period :-0….20 dollars a month sounds amazing, thats about what it costs to feed them orijen kibble, i dont know where i could find cans of wellness or halo around where i live for that price or online…But basically what you said in your second paragraph seems to be the only solution…

from that catinfo.org site they give a recipe for feeding like you said about 5-6oz a day instead of 10oz a day in canned and using antibiotic free chicken thighs as the source of protein. Only thing is it’s a mixture of homecooked and raw that the vet on that site recommends but her estimated costs after supplements and all and her practical suggestions of locating cheap meat (from whole foods) make it seem very practical. I also like that unlike the canned foods which almost always have something extra in them that i dont want that we have complete control over every ingredient in the food….It makes me jealous that i want to be able to provide this for my dog too. But feeding an 85lb dog raw and a 10lb cat are two different things, that’d be 1.7-2.5lbs for my dog and i do not not know where i can get the organ meat and bones i need for my dog ill have to stick to Orijen for my dog for now. but i found this guide on the internet and it also looks easy to follow so i might make the full transition for both animals at some point http://puppybutt.weebly.com/uploads/7/6/9/2/7692088/beginners_guide_to_prey_model_raw_rv.4.1.pdf …

[pugmomsandy]

He could have some arthritis in his jaw and eating bones could be a little tiring. Are his teeth and gums in good condition? No sores or broken teeth? I feed my old one mostly wet food and some ground raw.

[Peggy]

Thank you very much Jennifer. My dogs love fish.
I do believe I will go through it and get the bones out though.

[Jennifer H]

It’s already cooked. Most of them (unless packaging states otherwise) have bones in them, but they are soft and easily crushed between two fingers. I just scopp it right out of the can and into the dog’s bowl.

[Akari_32]

Wow, I totally replied to this but it didn’t post lol Anyways, eventually I’ll go all raw, but for now I’ll do it a few times a week. I want to get me cat food stash down some before I get too serious. Then I’ll keep it on hand for when I go out of town.

This morning it the first homemade raw meal for the kitty! I let him taste the organs and bones a couple nights ago while preparing it, and he actually loved all of it! I opted to feed on a plate, rather than his small stainless bowl, in hopes that he won’t drag it around. I’ll also lock the dogs up and feed him in the kitchen so if he does drag it around, at least it’s on the tile and not my carpet LOL

This meal is about 3 oz, with some beef kidney, a small bit of chicken breast that apparently escaped the dogs meals, and a nice big chunk of thigh. Dinner will be another 3oz, and have the end of a wing, and I think I saw some chicken liver in there, and more thigh/leg meat.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/50DD335D-F808-4E53-99D5-2E09C353FF0E_zpselkwpbdg.jpg

[Michael C]

Morning! My question is about fish. Where I shop I have the option of Ground Herring/Mackerel mix, Wild Caught Whole Portugese Sardines, and Whole Spanish Mackerel. I want the best Omega3 fish I can get that will feed a mastiff puppy growing bones :p

[charles h]

Hi Glen,

How did the change of diet happen, for example was your dog on kibble then one morning changed to raw food?

Any change of diet even going from one type of kibble to another instantly without a weening period can result in an upset stomach.

Bacteria does not affect dogs as it normally affects the intestines not the stomach however dogs have a much shorter intestinal track than humans so bacteria can not grow to cause issues.

I would guess you changed diet too quickly, persistence will ease any stomach upsets your dog has however you can use some human anti-diarrhea tablets in the meantime to make sure your dog does not loose too much liquid.

Bones such as chicken bones can also be used a binding agent to solidify stools so you can feed less meat and more bone to harden up your dogs stool then introduce more meat carefully monitoring their stools.

Hope this helps

Charles

[Glen R]

I started feeding my dog raw chicken and now he has diarrhea and vomiting. My fiance is not happy and blaming the raw meat. I did some research and learned that any harmful bacteria will only be on the surface of the meat. So, is it possible to quickly cook the meat i am giving in order to kill the bacteria, but still have it raw for the most part bones and all. Also, what would be the best method for slightly cooking ( ~ 1 minute of boiling?).

My assumption here is that if I take for instance a frozen chicken drumstick and drop it in boiling water for a minute that the bones will remain uncooked and not splinter?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Kristin S-

I also have two strong chewers. The only thing that I can come up with that I would feel safe leaving my dogs alone with would be a Kong. Someone mentioned this idea a while back. I soak some kibble for a few minutes and pour out most of the water and add a little bit of canned to the wet kibble. Then I stuff it in the Kong and put it in the freezer. By getting the kibble a little soft and wet before freezing, it makes it take a lot longer for my dogs to dig it out. Other types of chews and bones, I would never feel comfortable leaving them alone with. I do put their bullysticks in vice grips before I give it to them. Making me feel a little more at ease. They are getting better about gulping and swallowing their treats. But, I’m still concerned. Good luck!

[Kristin S]

We have two very strong chewers – an adult great dane-shepherd mix that weighs 130lbs and a bullmastiff puppy that weighs 40lbs at 4 months old. Our dogs are our children and we spoil them. I spend A LOT of money to make sure they are healthy and happy. My husband and I both work so we are in need of chew treats that meet the following needs:
1. Safe to eat unsupervised.
2. Long lasting
3. Doesn’t give stinky breath
4. Budget Friendly

We currently use hooves, bully sticks, edible nylabones, rib bones and marrow bones. I would love to know if anyone has additional recommendations. Thanks!

[Kristin S]

Does anyone know if the list has been created yet or still in the making? I’m very excited and anxious to see what is recommended because right now, I just feed a wide assortment of treats to include bully sticks, rib bones, hooves, pig ears, edible nylabones, kongs with peanut butter, etc. Would love to know what is recommended for STRONG chewers.
When considering treats we look for a couple things:
1. treats that are safe to give the dogs unsupervised while we are working.
2. treats that will last a while
3. reasonable treats (that is why i am staying away from the himalayan chews, can’t believe how expensive they are!)
4. treats that don’t give stinky breath!! (this is a big one and haven’t found many that fill this need!)

[crazy4cats]

Hey guys- Have you checked the freezer section where you shop for your dog food? The local feed store in my area carries beef heart and chicken liver treats in their freezer section where they also keep the raw bones. I think the brand is Rogue River or something like that. I add an ounce or so of these treats to my pups’ kibble a couple times per week.

[Naturella]

Hello here too, guys! 🙂

Ok, so for Peggy, I will post again the pics of Bruno’s menu and additives schedule, maybe she can choose some from there, and also check out the amounts for a 15-ish lb dog.

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q644/aninova/Bruno2014-2015Menu_zps6ccc6e19.jpg

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q644/aninova/BrunoWeeklyToppers_zpsdfd1a9be.jpg

Ok, so I feed the above toppers with the 1/4 cup of kibble as noted. You can use other fresh food toppers, like I see you have – raw or lightly cooked ground meats are great, raw or lightly cooked eggs too, cottage cheese, cooked veggies/leafy greens, some fruits (I give fruits raw), raw meats/raw meaty bones, canned sardines, jack mackerel, or salmon (not tuna – too much mercury I hear), yoghurt/kefir, coconut or fish oil (or both), canned pumpkin is good for fiber as is flaxseed meal (and the latter also gives Omega 3s), etc. There’s a lot to choose from that you can add, but let me recommend that you also add some warm water to the kibble. You may choose to soak it or not, but it does help with hydration and for ease of mixing oils, eggs, yoghurt, dehydrated foods, and just about anything else. It may look gross and soupy in the bowl, but it is so good to our furry friends, and they will slurp it all up nonetheless! At least Bruno does! 🙂

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Naturella.

[Peggy]

Thanks so much for the insight and tips Naturella.

Unfortunately, I tried both dogs on Blue Buffalo, and neither one of them could tolerate it. In fact Tebow was gaining weight at a rapid pace. Now that they’re both on Pure Balance, the gain seems to have stopped and LadyBug has lost 1 lb (if my scale is correct).

LadyBug is getting 1 cup of kibble each meal (the recommended amt is 2 1/2 – 3 cups per day) + a 1/2 can of wet food. Neither of them gets many treats at all, and we’ve eliminated Milk Bones (didn’t know they were 35 cal’s per treat!).

Neither of them can hardly wait to get on the leash and go for a walk. LB brings me her leash. But the icy sidewalks make that an impossible task.

[DogFoodie]

I feed my dogs raw chicken and turkey bones all the time, but I would never give them knuckle bones or other heavy weight bearing bones like a femur. I would worry about mine breaking a tooth on those. I still supervise them, but I have significantly less concern over soft, consumable bones like chicken wings, chicken necks, chicken backs, lamb trotters, turkey necks or chicken feet. Cooking changes the composition of the bone.

[Gloria K]

Under no circumstances have I ever given any of my dogs chicken or turkey bones. The only bones I give them are shank bones, knucklebones or large heavy soup bones. These bones don’t splinter whether they’re cooked or not. My dogs gnaw on them for hours and while they do come down and size they don’t splinter or shatter.

[DogFoodie]

Cooking a bone changes the structure of the bone will cause it to splinter. Bone splinters are dangerous. You should only offer your dog raw bones. I don’t give my dogs weight bearing bones either because they’re aggressive chewers and weight bearing bones are too hard for them. Here’s a thread about raw, meaty bones: /forums/topic/eating-raw-meaty-bones/

[pugmomsandy]

Yes, Raw Meaty Bone (RMB) is actually raw meat and bones. My personal dogs are raw fed (ground to whole prey) and eat dehydrated foods and my fosters eat kibble, canned and dehydrated foods. I’ve used Amicus, Back to Basics, and currently use Muenster Grain Free and Pro Pac Ultimates Grain Free and Nutrisouce Grain Free regularly and all the dogs’ stools have been solid, even with the addition of canned foods. How much are you feeding of EVO BTW? Also, you might find a Rotational Diet beneficial. My dogs always have solid stool no matter what I’m feeding since I change regularly.

http://urbanpawsmagazine.com/archives/59

For a dry, shelf stable dehydrated raw product, check out Stella and Chewy’s, Primal, Nature’s Variety, and Vital Essentials.

Here’s the raw feeding pictures topic:

/forums/topic/pictures-of-dogs-eating-raw-raw-meals/

[Gloria K]

LOL Homzie, I bought three hard beef soup bones for Mickey yesterday, boiled them then gave one to him. Took her two hours to eat half of this large bone so I took it away from him and put it up on the kitchen counter. Even though it was wrapped in Saran he knew it was up there and I don’t think he slept more than 10 minutes all night. So I know what you mean when you say he stares and barks. This bone would’ve kept him occupied for more than four hours because he never let it go but I wonder if that would’ve been way too much in one sitting.

[pugmomsandy]

Beef rib bones, fresh cow hooves and Himalayan chews last forever (well, I have small dogs 22-28 lbs) and I’ve seen my dogs gnaw on them for over 30 minutes.

[theBCnut]

OK, I have Border Collies, 45#, and a JRT, 12#. For ribs, you can get lamb and pork ribs from the butcher. I also get beef short ribs or calf ribs, but they aren’t for the JRT. I have my butcher cut up turkey necks. Any chicken parts, turkey wings and backs. If they have goat, you can get goat ribs too. Neck bones from pork, lamb, goat, and calves are really good.

Really, the only bones you should absolutely not use are weight bearing bones from larger animals.

[theBCnut]

Don’t get any leg bones from larger ruminants. After that, what kind of dog do you have again?

[Peggy]

Ok so, new question –

There is an Amish Marketplace here in town, most everything is home made, and I mean everything!

They have a meat dept where we get all of our chicken, lamb chops, pork steaks, bacon, etc. So, I’m going to ask if I can buy some bones for my dogs.

What should I ask for? I’ve never purchased raw bones before.

[Patrick S]

I give her Cosequin DS and Omega 3 capsules with her breakfast. I give her a Milk Bone Brushing Chew each night, which has helped her tartar. She has a good appetite, but doesn’t gulp down her food. She can’t have bones and chewies because she tends to swallow rather than chew.
I’m changing to a better rated food. Probably Pro Pac Chicken and Zbrown Rice.
Thanks for the help

[DogFoodie]

I wouldn’t feed them either. I don’t feed bones that aren’t raw and I thought that smoking was akin to cooking anyway.

You’re better off offering something like these lamb trotter bones from MPC:

https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=99&virtuemart_category_id=17&lang=en

[theBCnut]

I only feed raw bones. I would be afraid that these would splinter or break off chunks. There is so such thing as “natural liquid smoke.” Smoke is not a liquid. I’ve read that smoked flavoring is a cancer causing agent. I’d pass.

[Peggy]

Please give me your opinion of these? Thank you.

http://www.petflow.com/product/jones-natural-chews/jones-natural-chews-lamb-shank-bone-dog-treat