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Thanks for the thought, Jeanne. Let me know if you don’t find the Actiflex at your feed store. I still have more than half of the quart size left. I’ll mail it to you. 😉
I tried the Actiflex and it didn’t work for Max. I’ve noticed that products that have glucosamine sulfate don’t work for him but those that have glucosamin hcl do. I’m giving him Springtime Joint Health powder right now. I mix it in his food and he gobbles it down. It seems to be working pretty good so far.
Good luck with the Actiflex. I hope it works for Harry. 🙂December 23, 2013 at 10:22 pm in reply to: Food Suggestions Please: My German Shorthair is a Chunky Lady #30511 Report Abuse
I agree with Patty. I wouldn’t look for a “reduced calorie”, “lite,” or “senior” dog food. They are generally very high in carbs which does not help them lose weight; plus seniors need more protein, not less. My family had an overweight senior rottie on Fromm Reduced Activity Senior Gold. I thought I was doing a good thing. After finding this site and educating myself more, I found out that food was almost 50% carbs! He was always hungry and it wasn’t helping him lose weight. We switched him to high protein, grain free foods and he finally started slimming down. We fed him Horizon Legacy Adult and Acana regionals. My family also has a pit bull (70#) that is a little chunky. He is currently eating Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural and is losing weight. When I had my Great Dane on kibble (he eats raw now), he did really well on Go! Fit and Free Adult by Petcurean.
Best of luck!
My picks would be:
Orijen Adult (38% protein)
Acana regionals (31-33% protein)
Go! Fit and Free Adult (38% protein)
Annamaet Grain Free (30% protein)
Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (38% protein)
Horizon Legacy Adult (34% protein)
Pinnacle Peak Protein (42% protein)
Timberwolf Platinum (36% protein)
Our pit bull is currently eating the Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural with some Timberwolf (Black Forest formula with elk) mixed in. He’s doing really well on it. We bought a small bag of Timberwolf to try in case he didn’t like it. He seems to like it so we’ll buy a big bag next time.
Hey Patty and Marie-
Regarding the cleanliness and bacteria levels in meat, you wouldn’t count MPC or Hare Today in with those other pet food manufacturers that toss stuff back in right?
Thanks for the quick reply, Patty! Yes, he’s always gotten The Honest Kitchen. He has had duck canned food, the S&C Duck Duck Goose (frozen and freeze-dried), and the Primal Duck Formula nuggets but this is the first pure duck grind he has gotten. Do you think I should mix the duck with something less fatty like turkey? Most recently he has had the beef and turkey grinds from Primal and the chicken grind from Bravo. He had the S&C DDG freeze dried sporadically in the last month.
I’ve used Petcurean with my adult Dane. I prefer the Go! formulas over the Now but I have used both. If it turns out that the calcium is acceptable, it would be a good choice to use in rotation. I think the bag size you use should be determined by how quickly you use the food. As long as you go through the food fairly quickly there is nothing wrong with getting the bigger bags. I rotated food every 4 weeks.
Here is my two cents. I agree with Losul regarding the antibiotics. I personally think this might have started because of the rounds of antibiotics he had initially. Every time our rottie has had chemo and been on antibiotics afterwards it takes forever for his stool to return to normal. We give him double doeses of probiotics with every meal while on antibiotics and for weeks afterwards before backing it down again. It takes a long time for their gut to get back to normal after everything has been killed off. I don’t think he truly has colitis. I think his system has never been able to get back to normal. I would go back to doing the double doses of probiotics.
Regarding his food, I remember you fed him a bland diet of chicken and rice once for awhile, right? Did his stool get any better with that? I was told that barley has a good amount of fiber and can be better than rice. I feed our rottie chicken and overcooked oatmeal and it works for him. Homecooked food might be easier on his system than kibble right now.
I feel for you. Stay strong. I’ll be keeping Augie in my thoughts. 🙂
I’m not sure if you are feeding grains or not. I’ve fed my big guy Annamaet and Earthborn Holistic with great success. My grain-free picks from the list would be: Annamaet Aqualuk (fish), Earthborn Meadow Feast (lamb) or Earthborn Coastal Catch (fish). Canine Caviar Wilderness (venison) or Open Sky (Duck) look good too- never personally fed this brand but I like the looks of it. My grain-inclusive picks would be: Annamaet Option (salmon and venison) and Victor Select Lamb Meal & Brown Rice. I’ve never heard of Pet Pantry dog food so I googled it. It looks like a pretty good food. I think the Buffalo and Duck would be worth a try. I’m currently feeding The Honest Kitchen and raw to my Dane and he is loving it. The Honest Kitchen Love is beef (though it’s pricey). Let us know what you end up with and how it goes. 🙂
There are very few commercial foods that are appropriate for dogs with kidney disease. DogAware has a lot of information on kidney disease. Here is their list of commercial foods for dogs with kidney disease: http://dogaware.com/health/kidneynonprescription.html
If I were choosing a food for my dog from this list, I would choose one of the Wellness Complete Health formulas or one of the Wysong formulas (but not the Wysong Nephreon).
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by RescueDaneMom. Reason: add
I don’t take stock in that theory about not mixing raw with kibble. I started out feeding raw by adding it as a topper to my dog’s kibble. He never had a problem with it.
Interesting. I don’t think he’s sensitive to chicken then since he hasn’t improved on the rabbit food. That sounds like our rottie right now. He’s still recovering from a nasty reaction to his last chemo treatment. The drug did not agree with him at all. I think it killed off everything in his gut. We’ve been feeding him 3x a day with probiotics and enzymes in every meal. We had him on Nutrisource Weight Management for the high fiber (12%) which helps his diarrhea. Now he’s got mostly solid poop with the runny stuff at the end because we switched him to the Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (2.5% fiber) with no transition time. He just decided he didn’t want to eat the Nutrisource anymore. I was thinking that fiber might be the issue with your guy but that doesn’t make sense either. You tried 2 higher fiber foods: Orijen at 6% and NVI at 7%. I’m kinda stumped. Hopefully the Perfect Form will start helping. After you run out of NVI you could try NV Prairie LBP to see if he does any better with grains. I also wonder if he might do better on a dehydrated food like Honest Kitchen. It might be easier on his digestive system than kibble. Sorry I can’t be of more help. Those are just some thoughts I had. It sounds like all you can do is trial and error right now until you can definitively rule out parasites again.
Yes, mix the PF into a paste and add it to the food with the pumpkin, probiotics, and enzymes. I don’t have any personal experience with parasites but I know it can take awhile for dogs GI tracts to recover from damage. It’s possible you just haven’t found the right food yet. Do you think he’s allergic to chicken? Was he scratching/biting/chewing when he was on the chicken-based foods? That’s good that he’s not doing it now.
kms- Thanks for the update. I was wondering how it was going. The Perfect Form is perfectly safe and I would suggest starting it ASAP. It is not sold in some states because of the herbs that it contains. Some states are weird about what they will allow in. For example, many of the Acana varieties of dog food can’t be sold or shipped to the US because of the “botanicals” they contain. I’m not sure why it is such a concern. I don’t know if they have an issue with them being non-native or what.
If I were you, I would try the Perfect Form and give it two weeks to see if there will be any improvement. I would keep up the double doses of probiotics. If things haven’t changed in two weeks then I would consider changing to a different food.November 30, 2013 at 7:58 am in reply to: any supplements can be used to replace glucosamine for seniors? #29394 Report Abuse
A lot of glucosamine is sourced from shellfish. Do you think she could have a shellfish allergy? They make vegetarian glucosamine and joint supplements. http://www.swansonvitamins.com/q?kw=vegetarian+glucosamine+-+shellfish+free
I don’t think any supplements will conflict with kibble. You should be fine adding whatever supplement you decide to try right into her kibble. Sometimes herbs can have a strong smell (and taste I’m guessing) so you may have to add a little canned food or something else yummy to mask the smell/flavor.
While I love Stella & Chewy’s, it is not practical for large dogs to feed as a sole source of food. Your dog would eat you out of house and home. If I fed my dog just S&C, I would be spending $15/day. You can use Stella’s as a topper for the kibble. That’s how I started feeding my dog raw.
I have a Great Dane (155 lbs). When I was feeding him grain-free kibble, I fed Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (very low fiber), Annamaet Grain Free, Go! Fit & Free (by Petcurean), and Acana Regionals (grain-free). I also have a rottweiler in the house (my brother’s dog). The rottie has done well on Horizon Legacy, Horizon Pulsar, Fromm Adult Gold, Acana Regionals, and Nutrisource Adult Chicken & Rice.
Fiber could be the culprit. The rottie is very sensitive to fiber in his food. Too much fiber makes him poop his brains out too. You could try the Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural. It has 2.5% fiber which I think is pretty low for kibble. Also, not all dogs do well on “5 star” foods. It really depends on the dog. I wouldn’t give up on grain-free foods just yet. I would try another brand like Earthborn or Nutrisource.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
First, if you want to upload a picture as your avatar you need to go to gravatar.com. You can also add a picture to a post using photobucket. Copy and paste the image link into your post and it should show up.
Now onto the food…Wellness Core Puppy is a great food, but it is a BIG step up from Hill’s. To play it safe, you might want to gradually step up the quality food. You could start with Nutrisource Large Breed Puppy. Nutrisource has a reputation of being an easy food to switch to. Then you could transition to Wellness Core. 3-4 foods in a rotation is good. That would be my minimum. If your dog doesn’t have intolerances or allergies then you could find many foods to keep switching through.
Because you don’t know if she is a large breed or not, I would play it safe and feed large breed puppy appropriate food. Feeding lower calcium won’t hurt a small/medium breed dog. In my opinion, it’d be better to err on the side of caution.
I think that the amount of calcium that they get from treats is pretty negligible. However, if you are very concerned, I think dehydrated/freeze-dried tripe would be a good choice. Tripe has balanced Ca/P and I believe it is lower in calcium than some other treats. Freeze-dried liver may also be good.
There are more knowledgeable members on here that can give you more feedback and correct me if I’m wrong. I hope this was helpful to you. Have fun getting ready for your pup. It’s so exciting getting ready to bring a new dog home. 🙂
I have used Dasuquin with MSM for large dogs by Nutramax for years. It works really great for my dogs but it’s expensive. The last time I bought it on Amazon it was around $80 for a bottle of 150 chewable tablets. I was giving my Dane 3/day so it lasted me about a month and half. I have recently switched to buying all of the components in Dasuquin separately from swansonvitamins.com: glucosamine, MSM, chondroitin, and ASU. It costs me around $25/month. I also just ordered Actiflex 4000 from Amazon. It is a joint supplement made for horses. It was recommended by a member on this forum. It will be much more cost effective for me. I’m hoping it will work for him. I’ve tried Liquid Health’s K9 Level 5000 on two separate occasions and it didn’t work for my dogs. I’ve also heard that Springtime Inc makes good joint supplements. I want to try theirs next. Nupro and The Wholistic Pet make powders that you add to the food that have joint supplements in them. I believe that Glucosamine HCl works better than Glucosamine sulfate for my Dane.
Here are some article on joint health and treatments:
That probably gives you a lot to think about. Every dog is different and some things work better than others. Good luck! I hope you find what works for your pup. 🙂
I would lean toward the Perfect Form for the same reason as Patty. I think there is probably enough slippery elm in it to help but maybe one of the other components will help too. Plus it has been formulated to help with digestion and intestinal health. I think it’d be worth a try.November 23, 2013 at 8:52 pm in reply to: any supplements can be used to replace glucosamine for seniors? #29078 Report Abuse
What do you mean by not tolerating the glucosamine? Is it not working? Does it make her ill? I have a Great Dane so I really have to support his joints. I have never used glucosamine by itself. I’ve always used it in a combination formula with MSM, chondroitin, and ASU. I’ve just recently started adding in herbs as he has arthritis now that he’s an old man.
Some herbal formulas for dogs that I know of are Dr. Harvey’s Ortho-Flex Joint Ease, Herbsmith’s Soothes Joints, and The Honest Kitchen’s Lithe Tea.
For more info on using herbs for joint care see this article: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/herbs-for-canine-joint-care/
Other things that help joints are cetyl myristoleate, hyaluronic acid, perna mussel (green-lipped mussel) powder, and eggshell membrane.
What I have learned in my search to find what works for my dog is that every dog is different. I have tried products because people tell me how great they are and how they worked for so and so; however, they didn’t work for my dog. It is all trial and error. You have to try everything. Try something and give it a couple weeks to see if there is any notable difference. If it doesn’t work, scratch it off the list and move on to the next thing. I wish you luck in finding what helps your pup. I hope I was at least a little helpful. 🙂
Here is an article on GI issues: http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html
It has info on slippery elm bark and how you use it.
The Honest Kitchen makes a supplement to help with digestion and intestinal health that has slippery elm in it called Perfect Form.
I hope this helps. 🙂
Oh ok, that makes sense. Thanks Patty!
That’s what I figured. They’re making a mountain out of a molehill. I believe I also read somewhere that HPP could create superbugs?
What kind of dog is he? I have a Great Dane that I rescued at 2 years old. I put him on a joint supplement as soon as I got him. I had to up his dose as he got older when I noticed his joints starting to pop when he got up. The vet just diagnosed him with arthritis (he’s 7.5 now). I tried switching joint supplements once and his joint popping got really bad- the new supplement wasn’t working well. When I switched back to the old supplement the popping stopped. So that was a long way around telling you that it could be a joint problem. He might benefit from a joint supplement (something with glucosamine and chondroitin). I also have a pit bull in the house that does that stretching you are referring to. He does it ALL the time. I thought it was just a personality quirk. He’s 5 yrs old and 70 pounds and his joints never pop.
If you are really worried, you could take him to the vet and have them do an xray to see if there are joint issues going on.
I have a Great Dane and my mom is taking care of my brother’s rottie. We used to have both of them on Dasuquin with MSM for large breed dogs made by Nutramax. http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/dog/dog-joint-bone-health/dasuquin-for-dogs It worked very well but was very pricey. Last time I bought it on Amazon it was $80 for the 150ct bottle. They come in beef flavored chewable tablets which makes it easy to give. The rottie ate them like treats but my Dane was picky and I had to crush them up in his food. Now, I buy the same components (glucosamine, MSM, chondroitin, and ASU) from swansonsvitamins.com and give them to my dog crushed in his food. It costs me about $25/month now instead of $64 (I was giving 4 tabs per day so the 150ct lasted about 5 weeks).
If you poke around on the ECF website long enough you will find a link to Urban Wolf food.
They state on the website that it meets and exceeds the AAFCO guidelines. They also provide a nutritional analysis comparing the prepared food to the AAFCO guidelines. If you look all the way at the bottom of the page, you will see that it is made by ECF.
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by RescueDaneMom.
Those are the only places I have found it also. I think it is made by a Canadian company. I have never tried it because they don’t provide a guaranteed analysis or anything saying they meet the AAFCO or NRC standards. Have you tried emailing or calling them? They provide an email address and phone number on their website.
From what it looks like, I think it’s like a premix. I think it will only be complete and balanced if you prepare it exactly like the directions they provide. I would however still like to see an analysis of the prepared food to make sure it is complete and balanced.
So glad your pup is doing better! In my opinion, it sounds like he is at the perfect weight. You want him to be on the lean side. Especially with his breed being prone to joint problems, it is better to keep him lean so he never has excess weight on his joints. As long as he is in good body condition, which it sounds like he is, then his nutritional needs are being met just fine. If he was so skinny that his ribs were showing and he looked malnourished, then I would worry.
I have a 7.5 year old Great Dane that was recently diagnosed with arthritis. I made a switch to Honest Kitchen (dehydrated food) and raw. He has lost a significant amount of weight (somewhere between 8-10 lbs) and I can just barely see the outline of his ribs. My vet told me that he was perfect and having the excess weight off would help his joints.
I think the worst thing you can do for large dogs is let them get overweight, even if it’s a little bit. Though, to me, it sounds like your boy is perfect. I would keep doing what you’re doing. I hope his problem stays cleared up. 🙂
Do you mean Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch? Starting off with a small bag is smart because, as I’m sure you’ve read, some times it takes a few foods before you find the right one.
Merrick grain free is rated 5 stars. My guess as to why it didn’t make the list is: (1) the calcium is too high to be appropriate for large breed puppy growth or (2) Merrick didn’t respond to HDM’s inquiry about calcium levels in their food.
edit- Personally, I haven’t looked into the calcium levels in Merrick. I have fed the grain free to adult dogs with good results.
November 18, 2013 at 10:53 am in reply to: Need immediate help with puppy food recommendations! #28634 Report Abuse
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by RescueDaneMom.
So glad that the puppy is doing better in your care. I agree that your daughter’s household may not be the right fit if he regresses when he is in her care. Regarding the food…you have to look at the AAFCO statements to see if a food is acceptable for a puppy. Puppies need formulas for growth or all life stages. The nutrisource adult chicken and rice is an all life stages food so it is ok to feed your puppy. This is taken from their website “NutriSource® Adult Dog Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for all life stages.” The small and medium puppy chicken and rice formula is also an all life stages food. The main difference is in the protein and fat content as well as the kibble size. The puppy food is more calorie dense so you would probably feed less of it than you would the adult food.
Here are links to the two formulas I mentioned:
I hope this is helpful. I wish you the best and hope you get everything figured out. 🙂
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by RescueDaneMom.
Mercman and Patty- I remember a conversation way back in the thread where someone mentioned to HDM that Kirkland’s had changed ratings and had been downgraded from 4 stars. I think it used to be on the original list but was taken off when HDM revised it because it was no longer a 4 star food.
Mercman- if you really want to use Kirkland’s, reach out to the manufacturer to see if you can get the actual percentage of calcium in the food rather than the minimum and we can see if it’s appropriate for large breed growth.November 16, 2013 at 4:40 pm in reply to: Besy Raw Food Brand Thats The Best For Chihuahua!! #28545 Report Abuse
I am partial to Primal and Stella & Chewy’s.
I am another fan of BIG dogs. Great Danes are my favorite! I love all 155 lbs of my rescued boy, Max. I also like Irish Wolfhounds, Borzois, and Shiloh Shepherds. The only little dog I would consider is a Pembroke Welsh Corgi.
Definitely agree, Duke. Dogs are just as unique as people. All are individuals. I tried Liquid Health’s K9 Level 5000 joint supplement because people said it worked great for their dogs. It didn’t do a darn thing for mine. Just got to keep searching until you find what works.
I just googled the Terra Biota K9 product. It looks good- 13 strains of probiotics. Mercola pets digestive enzymes and probiotics are good too. I was using Dr. Stephen Langer’s 15 strain probiotic from Swanson’s. They’re buy one get one free right now. They worked really well for my dogs. Like with anything else, it’s good to switch it up and not use the same product all the time.
If you stick with grain-inclusive, I would choose NVP Large Breed over NutriSource. That is based on my personal opinion and what I would feed my dog. I don’t like that NutriSource uses corn gluten meal. The NV uses brown rice, barley, oatmeal, and millet for carbs where NutriSource used brown rice, white rice, barley, and corn gluten meal. Other than that they are very similar.
How is he doing on the NV LID? Better, worse, or the same as when you were feeding Fromm?
I googled OptaGest because I’ve never heard of it. I applaud you for using digestive enzymes. However, if he is super sensitive and having loose stools, you may also want to add probiotics. A lot of people recommend the Mercola pets digestive enzymes and probiotics (though they are pricey). I use Dr. Langers 15 strain probiotic from Swanson’s: http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-probiotics-dr-stephen-langers-ultimate-15-strain-probiotic-fos-60-veg-caps It helps our rottie with cancer and our pitt digest their food so much better.
It could be his digestive system needs more help to digest the kibble.
I’ve read many times on the forums that Nutrisource is easy on the tummy and easy to switch to. I’ve fed Earthborn and my Dane liked it, but not every dog tolerates the peas well. Two grain-inclusive nature’s variety foods are on the list too- Nature’s Variety Prairie Puppy & NVP Large Breed Puppy.
FreeholdHound- Wow, he’s gorgeous! Mine is a dufus at times too, lol. Yes, Max is definitely an XL model. He’s 36″ at the shoulder and 155 lbs. I’d say he’s a pretty average size for a male Dane, maybe even on the smaller size. I’ve seen some truly XL Danes (200+ lbs). I’m doing partial raw as well. I haven’t tried raw tripe yet, just the canned tripe by Tripett. He loves it but boy it sure does stink. I can’t imagine how much worse the raw stuff probably smells. That’s good to know that the VE tripe treats don’t smell as bad. I bet Max would really like those. I’m definitely trying them next.
I used to use the Grizzly Salmon Oil in the pump dispenser but I got 2 bottles in a row that were rancid when I got them. I switched to another brand for awhile but after reading info on this site I have switched to the human omega 3 capsules. I have a Great Dane (155 lbs) so I go with products that pack a punch. I rotate between Carlson Salmon Oil Complete (a recommendation from HDM) and Swanson’s Maximum Stength Krill Oil.
And I agree with Patty. There should be enough omega 6s in the diet so I wouldn’t supplement with it.
FreeholdHound- you made me LOL! That’s good to know. I’m always looking for good treats. My Dane, Max, loves the Orijen and Stella & Chewy freeze-dried treats. I will try the Vital Essentials next! Is that your greyhound in your avatar?November 12, 2013 at 6:52 pm in reply to: Need immediate help with puppy food recommendations! #28257 Report Abuse
You are very welcome. I had the time so I did it. I’ve heard the same regarding Nutrisource being well-tolerated and easy to switch to but I didn’t include it because I know the big stores don’t sell it. If you have an independent pet store near you, they should probably carry it.
I’m glad your puppy is improving now. Keep us updated! 🙂
There are reviews for the dry but not canned.
My sister has been using the Pure Vita Grain Free for her border collie/english springer mix. Her dog likes it and has been doing well on it. I fed it once or twice. I’m not a big fan of the lower protein and high carbs.
I like Earthborn Holistic and Pulsar but they are both heavy in legumes (peas/lentils).
Patty- thank you for clarifying. I was struggling with it.
Duke The Boxer-
LOL! The calcium on Wellness Core Puppy is reported as “not more than 1.5%” meaning it’s a maximum. 1.23 is the actual percentage of calcium when they tested it.
Unfortunately, you never know what is going to bother a dog until you try it. Does the sudden scratching coincide with the change of food or could it be something else? If you suspect it’s the food, then I would switch to something else to see if it stops. My dog did very well on Annamaet Salcha but he doesn’t have any food intolerances. What was he eating before? Did it have peas or potatoes? Grain-free foods tend to have peas and potatoes in them. It can be hard to find one without both.
Sorry I can’t help with the rosemary extract. I haven’t heard that before. It’s interesting because The Honest Kitchen is removing rosemary from all of their formulas because of customer feedback.
I think most would agree that high protein is good for large breed puppies. Yes, Patty was saying that some people use 30% as the minimum protein level that they will feed. I am one of those people. I believe HDM once said that there is no such thing as too much protein for a healthy dog. For a large breed puppy (LGP) you really have to be careful with the the amount of calcium in the food because they are prone to developing bone issues if their bones grow too fast.
The calcium and phosphorous on the bags and websites are usually reported as a minimum percentage (ie 1.0% min). HDM contacted the companies and asked for the actual percentages (not minimums) of calcium and phosphorous in their foods, then calculated how many grams of each were in 1000kcal of the food. This factors in the calorie counts in the foods. Some foods can be deceiving because they look like they have low calcium but because of the calorie count you have to feed more of it so you end up feeding more calcium than is safe for a growing large breed puppy.
So yes, as far as calcium goes, you are missing a piece- the formula that HDM uses to convert the calcium % to grams of calcium per 1000kcal. That would only give you a minimum number though because that’s what is reported on the bag. You would need to contact the company to get the actual amount of calcium in the food. That’s why it’s easiest for all of us to use the list that HDM made.
NV Prairie LGP is on the list so you are fine with what you have been feeding. If you want to use a higher protein food for the next in his rotation, you could try Annamaet Aqualuk or Salcha (30%), Black Gold Ultimate Grain Free 32/18 Salmon (32%), Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch (32%), Wellness Core Puppy (36%).
I hope this is helpful and clears some things up for you.