[Lori H]

Hi Tanya,

You might want to look at the following website. My dog Buddy (long hair Chihuahua, Dachshund and Pomeranian) has been through a lot, much like your dog. He had so many medical issues including calcium oxalate bladder stones which he had surgery for to remove. He is now 11 and during his life he has had surgery on his spleen, surgery for the bladder stones, been diagnosed with Diabetes, my vet thought he had Cushings and I was also told by my vet that he was suffering from liver failure and was preparing me for the fact that Buddy was going to die. The liver failure diagnosis was over two years and today, he is healthy, happy, looks amazing and has so much energy. He is happy and the most healthy he has ever been in his life! It has been an amazing turnaround so I know how you feel. I basically had to get him healthy myself. My vet did not support my decision to do what I did, but he is healthy and that is all that matters!

Rick helped me and Buddy is now healthier than he has ever been. If anything, read what Rick has to say on his website. It sounds like you are open to something that might not be traditional medicine through your vet. The change in Buddy’s food as well as the supplements, changed his life.

http://www.doglivershunt.com/bladder-stones.html

I now believe wholeheartedly that most vets know nothing about nutrition. They are told to carry a line of food in their offices by one of the large pharma/dog food companies because most of these companies go out and recruit at the vet universities across the United States when vets are in school and provide them with a kickback when the sell either Science Diet or Royal Canin in their clinics, up to 40%. My vet wanted me to have Buddy on Hills Science Diet for the rest of his life, like you, I looked at the ingredients and thought to myself, there has to be something better out there. There was not one thing on there that was considered a whole food or ingredient that comes from the natural world! Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my vet, I just don’t believe he knows much of anything about nutrition. He has been great to me, my dog Buddy and my three cats. He is good at what he does, diagnose and perform much needed surgeries and procedures. He did Buddy’s bladder stone surgery which had the possibility for complications.

I was at my wits end as well and thought that I was going to lose Buddy, but I was not willing to give up so I did a Google search and found an amazing person who brought Buddy back to the healthy dog he is.

Buddy is on a very special diet and he has made huge strides in the last 10+ months. He is a very healthy dog to what he was 6 months ago.

If you choose to go with his program, it is not cheap, but I believe that over time, I will save money by not taking Buddy to the vet time and time again because I don’t know what is wrong and having a battery of tests run and racking up bills in the thousands, I have been there!

He was slowly weened off of his processed food Science Diet U/D and placed on a diet of fresh veggies and meat based on a very slow transition to follow with Rick’s help.

Buddy’s diet is a balance of ¾ veggies to ¼ meats. Dogs with liver issues do not need as much protein as you would expect. He gets lots of yellow veggies (squash, tomatoes, peppers, cucumber, celery, carrots, Brussel sprouts, snap peas, etc.) along with hemp oil and nori blended with goat yogurt into almost a smoothie consistency. I then add meats, liver is great as it helps to detoxify the liver (funny that you feed liver to a dog with liver issuesJ) and then he gets a variety of supplements. He receives three gut supplements in the morning (Acidophilus, Bifudus and a Spectrabiotic) along with an Enzyme and something called Whole Body. In the evenings he gets the Enzyme, Whole Body and a Mushroom supplement. The process to make his food is not that time consuming and if you are at your wits end like I was, I was ready to do anything.

He also gets to have as much goat yogurt as he wants with coconut oil. He also gets sweet potato chews and coconut slices.

He is also allowed to eat fruits, not during his morning and evening meals since they digest differently than veggies, but he has not yet warmed up to them yet. I don’t know if he ever will.

He is doing great! He has so much energy and the numbers don’t lie! I got a glucose meter and I am going to start checking his levels daily. I would really like to get him off the insulin if I can. I believe the medicine is what causes the blindness, not the actual diabetes, my vet believes otherwise. I would loved to have found Rick earlier, I am guessing I could have prevented a lot of the other issues Buddy has had earlier in life as well as the very hefty vet bills!

My vet has not said much of anything. I explained I was taking him off the prescription food and putting him on this program and he never responded. When I took him in the last time for blood work, I think he was surprised Buddy was doing so well, but did not ask me further about what I was doing. He is a pretty straight and narrow vet and I don’t think he looks outside the box. If Buddy’s glucose numbers continue to decline, I will take him back and back off on the number of units he is given. Now it is just maintenance and keeping a spreadsheet and monitoring how he is doing.

I suggest reaching out. I think Rick saved Buddy’s life. I took him to the vet in October to have blood work done and he is perfectly healthy! The bladder stones HAVE NOT returned.

Good luck on your search for information and I hope you find a solution. Buddy is 11, but has a new lease on life. I can’t imagine being just under two as a dog and dealing with this.

If you have questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out. I am happy to talk to you. I have helped two others with their dogs and I truly believe Rick knows what he is talking about. I put my trust in him and I now have a healthy, happy dog. Lori

[Christie B]

My American Bulldog mix has allergies to chicken, which I’ve heard is common with bully breeds. I rotated many different foods for the past 9 years that I’ve had him, in the hopes that I’d one day find the formula that wouldn’t trigger an attack.

So many non chicken protein formula’s have chicken or chicken meal as the 3rd or 4th ingredient. I guess it’s an inexpensive protein to add to formulas.

I’ve tried lamb, beef, pork, turkey… after a few weeks more often than not allergy symptoms appear. It’s harder to try a new food in the spring and winter because he also has environmental allergies, so it’s hard to figure out what triggers him.

So far, fish seems to be the safest protein. He used to eat Blue Buffalo with no issue when he was younger but the vet recommended stopping it because he was gaining too much weight on it (even after I cut back on the feeding amounts).

I went to Petsmart two weeks ago in search of a limited ingredient food. The previous bag that we tried was Zignature, but reviews here along with neither of my two dogs wanting to eat it (I literally had to put a small bit of shredded cheese on the food to make it appealing) turned me off that brand. I was looking at Nulo’s formulas when an associate wearing a Nulo shirt approached me (of course). She said they have a Salmon based limited ingredient formula. I read the label: Deboned salmon, salmon meal, yellow peas, chickpeas, canola oil, died sweet potatoes… didn’t see any chicken, beef, pork, turkey and gave it a shot.

The bag is almost gone. Both dogs are actually eating it. Stool is ok. I haven’t noticed any excessive drooling that indicated a possible upset stomach. No uptick in eating grass (sometimes they just like to graze). It seems like so far, so good.

However, there were some concerns in reviews that I read. I heard that peas and pea protein are also common allergens. Nulo has two product lines: Freestyle and Medal. Petsmart exclusively sells the Medal series and Freestyle is found online. I asked the rep in the store what the difference was and she said it was name only. The formulas were the same. However, when I went to order from Chewy yesterday (usually cheaper than Petsmart), their Freestyle was almost $20 more than the Medal at Petsmart. It made no sense. I contacted Nulo on their FB page and this was their response:

Thanks for reaching out to us here at Nulo. We appreciate the opportunity to help!
Our FreeStyle Limited+ and MedalSeries L.I.D. recipes are formulated using only one animal protein source and do not include the fruits and vegetables found in our other recipes. The difference between our FreeStyle Limited+ and MedalSeries L.I.D. recipes is simply the inclusion or exclusion of peas – our FreeStyle Limited+ recipes do not include peas or pea fiber.

Is the exclusion of Peas worth the $20 difference? Are fruits and vegetables usually the cause of allergies that they would be omitted in the Limited formulas?

[Susan]

Hi Sara,

Change your vet look for a female Holistic Vet or a female vet who isnt chained to these vet diets, I don’t dislike vet diets, yes they are good to use “temporary” until owner works out what to feed once your dog is stable, did you know back in 2013 I remember reading the side of one of the vet diets Patch was on for his IBD, it said, this formua is not to be feed long term…Vet diets weren’t meant to be feed long term, the dog was suppose to get stable then another diet was feed…
Now the vets Diets have been reformulated, can be feed long term now since 2015…
In Australia we can buy a vet diet straight from a vet practice or order online & do not need no presciption or vet, this just proves vet diet are nothing real special & there’s better alternative out there that are healthier & probably cheaper..

I dont understand why is your vet isnt looking into WHY your girl is having this problems in the first place, she is only 1 yr old. Did vet say why this was happening to a 1 yr old dog?
Your vet sound like Patches 2nd vet we got after I rescue him, I was scared to ask him for anything, I remember telling him my boy IBD has gotten worse on this vet diet, he said he needs to be on it longer, after being on the vet diet 1 month I bought the big bag back & told the a vet nurse its not working I want my money back & I told her that my vet John wasnt listening & Patch is pooing water now, his front paws are red & he’s crying 11pm every night & swollowing acid, she went in & asked another vet can I try the Royal Canine Sensitivitiy Control & this is how Patch gets his GOOD female vet who is his still his vet now….

Dogs and cats are designed to eat meat & when they’re are fed a grain-based diet or a starch-rich diet, the starch alkalizes urine pH, which can lead to the development of struvite crystals and stones.
Also is she she having wee breaks every 3 hours?
I would be looking at feeding your girl a raw balanced diet, there’s a few good Pre-made raw diets around, like “Answers Fermented ” Answers raw is suppost to be very good, it’s a bit expensive but its probably around the same price of a vet diet?? ..

I’ve read alot of people’s post who have female dogs (older then your girl) who have urinary problems swear by using “D-Mannose” Pure Powder Healthy Urinary Tract..

Start strengthening her Immune System, get some goats milk add to her diet for breakfast make sure she is having regular wee breaks every 3 hours…
also look into Vitamin C High Potency Powder or I think the D-Mannose has Vitamin C??

For now give the Hills wet & dry vet diet, look for an Holistic Vet or a vet who has been educated in dog Nutrition alot vets just know Hills, Royal Canin & Purina. Ask the vet why he didnt he prescribe Hills Urinary Care, Multicare C/d wet & dry formula’s instead? Ingredients are better in wet & dry formula’s, thats if you do stay feeding the Hills vet diet. Ypu could feed the Hill C/D Wet can food, for 1 of her meals.

My boy was put on the Royal Canine S/O Urinary wet & dry for 6 weeks, he had another Ultra Scan & his crystal had dissolved, all clear, I rescued him & he was weeing blood then the rescue vet said put him back on what he was eating before…
His crystals were from being used as a breeding dog the rescue vet said, he was 4yrs old.

Here’s Hills C/d wet can food
https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-cd-multicare-canine-chicken-and-vegetable-canned#accordion-content-054167331-2
Feed till you work out what you’re doing..

Start joining few Face Book Holistic Health Dog groups & you’ll find your way..

*”K-9 Kitchen” run by Monica Segal

* “K-9 Nutrition” run by Lew Olson

Dr Judy Morgan DVM
https://www.facebook.com/pg/JudyMorganDVM/videos/?ref=page_internal

* Holistic Dog Care
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Holisticdogcare/?ref=group_header

[anonymous]

If you got the medication from a veterinary clinic, most likely it was prepared by a “compounding pharmacy” especially formulated for veterinary use and does not contain xylitol. Read the label and check with the vet to put your mind at ease.
Gabapentin is an effective medication. There are risks of side effects with any effective medication. The question is does the benefit outweigh the risk? Most often the answer is yes.

https://www.compoundingcenter.com/gabapentin-for-dogs/ (excerpt below)
You may also see gabapentin called by its brand name, Neurontin. Gabapentin is used in both human and veterinary medicine. However, you should never use your own Neurontin prescription to treat your pet. Dogs and cats require much different dosages and formulations from those that are safe for human treatment.
In particular, some of the inactive ingredients, like xylitol used in liquid formulations can be dangerous for your pet’s liver. An accredited compounding pharmacy will be able to provide doses that are appropriate for your dog or cat’s weight and level of pain. On the whole, gabapentin is quite safe for treating your pet’s pain symptoms. Most dogs and cats experience few side effects. For those who do have an adverse reaction, sedation or temporary loss of coordination are the most common. These may possibly be prevented by reducing the dosage.

[Susan]

Hi Erin,

Have you tried dry foods that have Potatoes or Sweet Potatoes??
Potato is easy to digest & smooth on the stomach & bowel
Look at
“Wellness Simple” Turkey & Potato formula or the Salmon & Potato or their Simple Duck Meal & Oats or Lamb Meal & Oats formula’s??

Blood, Salvia & Fur testing is a waste of money, they can give false Positives.
Best is to do either a raw or cooked elimination food diet & add 1 new ingredient every 6 weeks & see how she goes..
Patch did really well on the raw elimination diet, he didn’t do well on the cooked elimination diet but I think it was cause I used Oats for the carb, he doesnt do well on grains.. I didnt know about boil Potatoes & Boil Sweet Potatoes being really good for IBD, IBS & Pancreatitis back then…
Boiled Sweet Potato pieces freeze very well after they’re thawed is just like the sweet potates are cooked, White Potatoes don’t freeze too well you have to boil them fresh as needed….

Here’s Wellness Simple formula link
I’m feeding the Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato formula at the moment to my IBD boy, I was feeding the “Wellness Core” Large Breed adult g/f but it wasn’t on special last week so I got a big bag of the Wellness Simple it was $40 cheaper & Patch loves it, so I’ll rotate between the 2 foods + I have a bag of “Canidae Pure Meadow” his poos are excellent on..
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/simple-limited-ingredient-turkey-potato-recipe

Also have you looked at “Earthborn Holistic Venture” formula’s some formula’s have more fiber then other formula’s, so make sure you read the fiber %,
Does she do better on a lower fiber % or higher fiber % diet??
Buy food from a pet shop so you can take back if it doesn’t agree with her, just say she wont eat, Pet foods are a Guaranteed for Palability money back or exchange..
https://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/dog-food-formulas

[Jessie H]

Melanie B,

Could you tell me how much fluid your dog, Cooper was leaking in the beginning of your experience? My parents have a bloodhound, Rori, who is 6 years old and she has been diagnosed with idiopathic chylothorax. It has been 2 weeks of emotional hell while she has been staying at a specialist vet an hour away with a fluid tap in. They are draining 2 liters of fluid out of her a day right now. She had the thoracic duct surgery and the pericardium, quit leaking the chyle fluid for 2 days only to start draining again. It is so discouraging and we are trying everything we can to save this otherwise perfectly healthy dog. She is finally at the point where she is maintaining her weight and not really losing weight anymore, and we are feeding her low fat food and protein to keep her levels up so she is not suffering. But time is running out as well as options. They are bringing her home tomorrow and taking her to be drained at our local vet daily this week. After that, if she has not let up on the amount of fluid or if she is beginning to suffer we are going to have to look at quality of life which is heartbreaking to even consider. She has a littermate sister who has been with her since day 1 who cries and howls wondering where she is. It is just awful. The only shred of hope we have had is that the vet told us yesterday morning and this morning that the amount of fluid drained was slightly less, and a bit thinner, and less fatty which is a good sign. So, I was just wondering with your case going so well for your Cooper, do you remember how much fluid was being drained from him when he first started? Just hoping for a little glimmer of hope if it was similar to Rori. Her doctor said the port was more trouble than its worth and often didnt do well enough to bother with it, which sounds odd after reading that so many others on here have had the port and many had success. Any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[Susan]

@ Atlas
You make up your own mind up whats best for Atlas.. you have enough advice from DFA posters….
all I know is when I kept mentioning the low taurine in dogs after they ate these newer grain free food brands when I asked Australian vets, Patches American vet, our Australian Dog Food Advisor (Pet Food Reviews- Australia) he would NOT post the FDA link, I asked him why are you not warning people about feeding these high legumes g/f diets on his f/b site, when I spoke with pet food companies, I spoke with Hills vet nutritionist & R/C vet nutritionist whoever I could discuss taurine being blocked & get some answers, some people told me, there is NOT enough proof, some people wanted me to show a link with evidence that Legume & Potatoes are blocking the taurine & causing heart problems, I couldnt find any research as it hasnt been done yet, all I found was 1 vet an older vet, said do not feed no more then 20% legumes in a dog diet…
This is when I thought to myself hey I’m the only Nut that seems to think there’s a problem here & if Patches both vets are telling me to continue feeding him his Grain Free Wellness Core Large Breed food that has Potatoes in it then I’m listening to them, they’d know more then me, it wasnt one person I’ve had these disscussions with..

Just remember Atlas has Intestinal problems but Atlas probably isn’t as bad as Patch yet, Patch was a rescue who I rescued on his 4th birthday, the damage was already done with Patch, I thought I could fix Patches IBD but it was too late for him he was probably feed a diet that keep making his poos sloppy/diarrhea….

Atlas may not do great on a grain diet unless you can find a dry food that has grains & potatoes or sweet potatoes further down the ingredient list maybe that will work for Atlas?..
I tried this with Patch, “Canidae All Life Stages Platinum” formula & Patch was doing BIG sloppy yellow cow patties, I tried Purina Pro Plan OptiDerma formula, it helped his itchy skin but made IBD worse…. Canidae & Purina both refunded money or offered to give a voucher…

When you do find a cheaper medium priced dry food that agrees with Atlas then you’ll have another dry food you can rotate with..
Try to not irritate Atlas bowel, you do not want your dog diagnosed with IBD when he’s around 4yrs old…. IBD isnt a nice disease, once the damage is done there’s no going back..
Thickening of the bowel, the cause – the dog continues doing sloppy poos & owner continues to feed food that is irritating the stomach/bowel..
You can not reverse thickening of the bowel with a probiotic, pumkin or other supplements..
Atlas is young & hopefully his bowel has healed & he still has a healthy bowel, i’d feed him dry foods he has done best on…& see a good vet yearly….

[anonymous]

More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets

What do Vets Know about Nutrition?
3. You can tell the quality of a food from reading the ingredients on the label-
Sorry, you can’t. Partly this is the fault of regulators, who don’t require truly important information to be put on pet food labels in a clear and understandable way. And partly the uselessness of labels as a measure of food quality comes from the meaningless vagueness of the concept of “quality” and all the myths and misconceptions about specific ingredients promoted by these vets.
Pet Food Nutrition Myths
Nutrition Resources for Pet Owners
Dog Food Logic
A recent article from the ever-unreliable Dogs Naturally Magazine gave some alternative vets a platform for repeating some myths and misconceptions about what are often called “prescription diets,” though this is technically incorrect. These are better referred to as “therapeutic diets” because they are intended to be useful in treating or preventing specific medical problems, not simply provide good overall nutrition, but they do not actually require a prescription, merely oversight from a qualified veterinarian.
The evidence for these diets varies from strong (e.g. kidney diets for cats with kidney disease) to weak (e.g. some of the diets for cognitive dysfunction in older dogs), but while there are some good arguments against some of these foods, none of the ones made in this article are worth taking seriously.
The article begins by asking a bunch of holistic vets to rank a few foods based only on the ingredient lists, with one food being a prescription diet. Not surprisingly, the vets tended to rank this diet quite low, based on these sorts of arguments:
(click on link above for full article and comments)

[Lori H]

Hi Tanya,

You might want to look at the following website. My dog Buddy (long hair Chihuahua, Dachshund and Pomeranian) has been through a lot, much like your dog. He had so many medical issues including calcium oxalate bladder stones which he had surgery for to remove. He is now 11 and during his life he has had surgery on his spleen, surgery for the bladder stones, been diagnosed with Diabetes and I was told by my vet that he was suffering from liver failure and was preparing me for the fact that Buddy was going to die. The liver failure diagnosis was over two years and today, he is healthy, happy, looks amazing and has so much energy. He is happy and the most healthy he has ever been in his life! It has been an amazing turnaround so I know how you feel. I basically had to get him healthy myself. My vet did not support my decision to do what I did, but he is healthy and that is all that matters!

Rick helped me and Buddy is now healthier than he has ever been. If anything, read what Rick has to say on his website. It sounds like you are open to something that might not be traditional medicine through your vet. The change in Buddy’s food as well as the supplements, changed his life.

http://www.doglivershunt.com/bladder-stones.html

I now believe wholeheartedly that most vets know nothing about nutrition. They are told to carry a line of food in their offices by one of the large pharma/dog food companies because most of these companies go out and recruit at the vet universities across the United States when vets are in school and provide them with a kickback when the sell either Science Diet or Royal Canin in their clinics, up to 40%. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my vet, I just don’t believe he knows much of anything about nutrition. He has been great to me, my dog Buddy and my three cats. He is good at what he does, diagnose and perform much needed surgeries and procedures. He did Buddy’s bladder stone surgery which has complications.

I was at my wits end as well and thought that I was going to lose Buddy, but I was not willing to give up so I did a Google search and found an amazing person who brought Buddy back to the healthy dog he is.

Buddy is on a very special diet and he has made huge strides in the last 10+ months. He is a very healthy dog to what he was 6 months ago.

If you choose to go with his program, it is not cheap, but I believe that over time, I will save money by not taking Buddy to the vet time and time again because I don’t know what is wrong and having a battery of tests run and racking up bills in the thousands, I have been there!

He was slowly weened off of his processed food Science Diet U/D and placed on a diet of fresh veggies and meat based on a very slow transition to follow with Rick’s help.

Buddy’s diet is a balance of ¾ veggies to ¼ meats. Dogs with liver issues do not need as much protein as you would expect. He gets lots of yellow veggies (squash, tomatoes, peppers, cucumber, celery, carrots, Brussel sprouts, snap peas, etc.) along with hemp oil and nori blended with goat yogurt into almost a smoothie consistency. I then add meats, liver is great as it helps to detoxify the liver (funny that you feed liver to a dog with liver issuesJ) and then he gets a variety of supplements. He receives three gut supplements in the morning (Acidophilus, Bifudus and a Spectrabiotic) along with an Enzyme and something called Whole Body. In the evenings he gets the Enzyme, Whole Body and a Mushroom supplement. The process to make his food is not that time consuming and if you are at your wits end like I was, I was ready to do anything.

He also gets to have as much goat yogurt as he wants with coconut oil. He also gets sweet potato chews and coconut slices.

He is also allowed to eat fruits, not during his morning and evening meals since they digest differently than veggies, but he has not yet warmed up to them yet. I don’t know if he ever will.

He is doing great! He has so much energy and the numbers don’t lie! I got a glucose meter and I am going to start checking his levels daily. I would really like to get him off the insulin if I can. I believe the medicine is what causes the blindness, not the actual diabetes, my vet believes otherwise.

My vet has not said much of anything. I explained I was taking him off the prescription food and putting him on this program and he never responded. When I took him in the last time for blood work, I think he was surprised Buddy was doing so well, but did not ask me further about what I was doing. He is a pretty straight and narrow vet and I don’t think he looks outside the box. If Buddy’s glucose numbers continue to decline, I will take him back and back off on the number of units he is given. Now it is just maintenance and keeping a spreadsheet and monitoring how he is doing.

I suggest reaching out. I think Rick saved Buddy’s life. I took him to the vet in October to have blood work done and he is perfectly healthy! The bladder stones HAVE NOT returned.

Good luck on your search for information and I hope you find a solution. Buddy is 11, but has a new lease on life. I can’t imagine being just under two as a dog and dealing with this.

If you have questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out. I am happy to talk to you. I have helped two others with their dogs and I truly believe Rick knows what he is talking about. I put my trust in him and I now have a healthy, happy dog.

Lori ([email protected])

[Susan]

Hi,
The dry foods you mentioned have lentils in the first 4 ingredients, I’d avoid Lentils, peas would be a better choice like Cockermon said..

Yes cooking & introducing 1 ingredient might work to find out if your dog can eat & handle this ingredient & check out his poo & see is it firmer or sloppier, I did this when I thought Patch couldn’t eat potato, he reacted to ingredient in a LID vet diet Potato & Fish & the vet said it must be the potatoes, so for 1 & 1/2 yrs I thought he cant have potato & most g/f formula back 2014 had potato, so I started adding 1 spoon cooked potato & he was fine then I added 2 spoons of boiled potato & poos were firmer 🙂

Cheaper foods that might work??

Have a look at

“Whole Earth Farms”
Grain Free Recipe with Pork, Beef & Lamb (Poultry-Free)
For All Breeds & Life Stages
https://www.feedgoodness.com/products/recipe?title=Whole-Earth-Farms-Grain-Free-Recipe-with-Pork%2C-Beef-&-Lamb-(Poultry-Free)&id=8

Whole Earth farms – Grain Free Recipe with Chicken & Turkey
https://www.feedgoodness.com/products/recipe?title=Grain-Free-Recipe-with-Chicken-&-Turkey&id=1

Whole Earth Farms – Grain-Free Salmon & Whitefish Dry Dog but has MORE ingredients
https://www.feedgoodness.com/products/recipe?title=Grain-Free-Recipe-with-Salmon-&-Whitefish&id=7

Also look at “Victor Select” formula’s
there’s “Oceanfish Select Formula” or a “Lamb Meal & Rice Select formula” it has Probiotics & Prebiotics
https://victorpetfood.com/products

I’ve read alot of people who have dogs with sensitive stomach/bowel seem to do well on Victor dry food, just need to find the right formula & the Select formula’s have least ingredients to start with..

Pro Pac Ultimates
grains & grain free only has prebiotics

[haleycookie]

I’m just saying often times the “recommend” amounts are way over what they should be. Max will be 7 this year and has been on 3 cups of food a day only for 6 of those 7 years. No nutrient deficiencies here. Just a lean mean barking machine.
If she is seriously an outdoor dog whom never stops moving perhaps she has something else health related going on and that’s why she isn’t loosing weight.

Edit: ok I just read the original post and it seems she does have a thyroid condition. Which can cause weight gain. She may just be stuck with that extra 8 lbs then. But as I said food recommendations on bags are often way too much. If a 70 lbs active lean lab only need 3 cups a day to maintain his weight a pit who should be 60 should probably only be getting 2-2.5 cups a day until she drops the weight. Then kept at 2.5-2.75 cups to maintain. If she’s spayed that can also make her hold weight more and make it more difficult to loose.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by haleycookie.

[Susan]

Hi Atlas,
Sorry another long post I keep thinking of stuff to write lol,
It’s good you have FINALLY found a dry food that’s working for your Lab, the Natural Balance Potato & Duck formula is low fiber 3%max & the N/B fish formula is 5%max fiber, both formula’s have “NO peas” & both formula’s have “NO probiotics”, both have VERY Limited Ingredients, just 1 single meat protein & potatoes or sweet potatoes as the carb…
Make sure you look for LID, fiber under 5% & it has to have Potatoes or sweet potatoes, not too many ingredients..

Go onto the Natural Balance LID site & look at the Duck formula & Fish formula ingredients that your dog does well on, then try & find a cheaper food with similar ingredients, write down the foods you have tried & he did sloppy poos & obsessively licking his butt, rubbing bum on ground & licking bum can also be from food sensitivities, my boy does it when he’s sensitive to an ingredient in a dry grain kibble…

If you want to give your dog probiotics, your better off buying a probiotic powder or Kefir, add 10-15ml water to the probiotic powder in a small bowl swirl & mix probiotic powder then let your dog drink it as a treat, best to give probiotic inbetween meals on an empty stomach when stomach acids are low not with food, the probiotic works better, give same time every day..

Did you ever try
“4Health”Sensitive stomach” formula, sold Tractor Supply, it is Potato & Egg, No Peas, the fiber is low 3%max & has similar ingredients to the Natural Balance Potato & Duck & the Sweet potato & fish formula’s, if its cheaper maybe you can add with the N/B formula to make the N/B kibble last longer.. also adding fresh ingredients, left overs after you have cooked, feed some to dog & dont add 1 cup of kibble, feed 1/2 cooked food say Potato & a meat & 1/2 his N/B kibble he does well on..
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/4health-special-care-sensitive-stomach-formula-for-adult-dogs-25-lb-bag?cm_vc=-10011

I feed “Wellness Core” Large Breed, its Chicken, Turkey, Potato & Peas I buy when on special or has 25% off the online pet food shops always send out emails with 25%-30% off.
I have just finished feeding “Nutra Gold” Turkey & Sweet Potato formula & it had Garbanzo beans, Patch normally farts when he eats Garbanzo beans but not with this Nutra Gold grain free formula, Patches poos were smaller & firmer then when he eats the Wellness Core formula & the Nutra Gold is cheaper then the Wellness Core. Here’s teh Whitefish & Sweet Potato formula, I’d give it a go just buy a small bag.
https://nutragold.com/products/dogs/whitefish-sweet-potato/

Also about the Bravecto chews, can you sell them singley to someone who uses Bravecto, I’d ring the the place your bought the Bravecto chews from or ring/email Bravecto company & I’d say my dog became very unwell & vomited bits of teh chew back up after he ate the Bravecto chew & you “do not” want to use the rest of the 5 x Bravecto chews again as you’re very worried your dog will become unwell again & die & you just bought a 6 pack & have only used 1 chew & I just want a refund….
also thru the Winter months do not give any Bravecto chews, I remember reading 1 dog that became very ill having seizure had his blood tested 9 months later he still had the Bravecto nerve drug in his system, so if you can not get a refund then just give 1 x Bravecto chew in Spring before the flea season starts & that 1 Bravecto chew should last thru Spring/Summer/Autumn months, Bravecto might give you a refund they’d get alot of complaints..
Do you live in a high flea/tick area? I do not use any toxins on Patch he reacts to everything….

[Susan]

Hi Brenda,

IBD is an awful disease, has your dog had Endoscope & Biopsies
done on Stomach & Small Bowel?? Biopsies will tell vet whats wrong?? my boy has Helicobacter Spirals + Gastritis

What medications does your dog take? is he on an acid reducer or acid blocker like Omperazole 20mg?
His rumbling grumbling noises is gasses running thru his bowel, it can be painful, my boy wakes up around 4-6am with these loud noises happening but not as much theses days since I worked out what foods he is sensitive too & NO boiled Rice it can irritate the bowel, sweet potato or potato is best to add instead of boiled rice, I make 1 piece of white bread toast & make the toast very brown nilly burnt then I cut toast into pieces or if you have Charcol tablet or charcol dog biscuit works good & stops the rumbling noises.. work out what ingredient is causing gasses & bad wind?? also Ive used liquid Mylanta 1 teaspoon/5ml stops the gasses rumbling thru bowel.. Ive read some pet owners use Degas, but find out WHY?? this is happening, re do diet, elimination diet, 1 new meat & 1 new carb.

My boy has IBD mainly stomach & small bowel, when he eats a wet diet he doesnt do well, it seems to ferment in his stomach, then he burps & food comes back up & then he gets bad acid reflux 🙁 I feed 5 small meals a day & at lunch he gets a small wet meal only.
The only food he seems to do best on is a dry kibble that has Sweet Potato & Potato that is either Pork, or Lamb or Turkey & Chicken, the dry kibble must digest quicker & move onto small bowel instead of sitting in his stomach.

Here’s a really good face book group you can join heaps of help & answers…
“Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/

[Susan]

Hi kelly,
are you on facebook? join this f/b group
“Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/

There’s a few dogs who have IBD & are doing really well on Answers raw & Answer goats milk, Anu & Fonia are very knowledgeable & probably can help you with your dogs diet, also there’s a few members who can tell you why Answers didn’t agree with their dogs…..
My boy would probably be the same as he doesn’t do well on any fermentable foods or high fiber foods..
Sounds like something in the Answers isn’t agreeing with both of your dogs or they’re not use to eating certain ingredients, I read Answers is high-vitamin butter oil…

[Spy Car]

@Linda,

I’m so glad my posts have helped you!

You will never find “spleen” in markets (under that name anyway), but you may find them as “melts.” My advice is to seek out so-called “ethnic” markets or supermarkets if you have any in your area. Markets that aim at Asian, Latino, Middle-Eastern, or Russian/Armenian clientele are much more likely to carry odd bits.

I have a market that sells sweetbreads (pancreas and thymus glands) very inexpensively, which surprised me, as sweetbreads when well prepared are a great delicacy for humans.

As one gets into raw feeding, finding ways of sourcing inexpensive items that diversify the dog’s diet tends to become part of the experience.

Since my Vizsla, the same size as your dog at about 60 lbs, has such powerful neck and jaw muscles due to raw feeding since 8 weeks, I generally serve his food straight from the freezer. And he loves his food! The is no hyperbole when I tell you that he leaps high into the air (almost 4 feet up) when it is meal time.

Not thawing promotes better chewing, is more convenient, and reduces risks of cross-contamination. It is not “necessary,” and if your dog doesn’t like it there is no need. But many dogs who come late to organs and are averse to them when thawed will eat them when they are served frozen (it is a texture thing in some cases).

I do need to put some work into cutting and bagging fresh ingredients as “portions” in preparation for packing into the freezer. But the actual mealtimes are a snap. I just grab an assortment of prepacked portions, open, and serve.

As you spend time trying to roughly balance meals (incorporating the ideas and bone percentages above) try to think in “portions” and rough fractions. Individual meals can be a little over or under the target goal of 10% bone, as the most important thing is to maintain balance over time. If you go “bone heavy” one day (say you serve a chicken quarter with one portion of “meat” one day), then go lighter on bone the next (maybe a neck or a wing with relatively more meat).

After a time this “balancing” really does become second nature. You won’t need “math” as you become confident with your powers of estimation.

If you have any questions, I’m happy to help you Linda.

This is a very good thing that you are doing for your dog.

I’d like to hear about your progress.

Bill

[Spy Car]

@ Patty R, starting my (now 4.5 year-old) Vizsla as an 8-week old puppy eating a balanced PMR diet from day one is one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.

Like anyone who is conscientious, I had read a great deal of conflicting information, including the scare tactics on such disreputable websites as “SkeptVet.” I made a deal with my wife that we would proceed, but would abandon the raw diet if there were any problems.

Instead, both our highest expectations have been surpassed. Our dog has thrived. His teeth are still pearly white, he’s super lean and very well muscled, and has both great energy and endurance, but is also calm when he’s not working and winds down in the house. His coat is soft, his eyes are clear, the amount of stool is scant, and I’m frequently told he “looks like a supermodel.”

Our vet (very traditional) has breed knowledge (she actually owns my dog’s grand-sire) and she is extremely happy with both his condition and his bloodwork.

I’ve owned may great canine athletes in my long years owning and training dogs. I only wish I’d know about PMR style raw feeding sooner, I have some feelings of guilt that I fed my dogs such crap in my former ignorance of optimal canine nutrition.

There is no comparison between the condition achieved with feeding a dog what their species was shaped by evolution to thrive on vs the unnatural cereal-based products that are supplemented with plant proteins and rendered meats. The differences are not subtle. When I meet a raw fed dog I know it without a word form its owner. I’ve had other raw feeders (complete strangers) come up and say “I see you raw feed.” It is that obvious a difference.

Feeding a balanced raw diet is the best thing one can do for their canine companions.

Bill

[Susan]

Hi Heytsu,

Change vets ASAP sounds like you have a vet that doesn’t know what she is doing??, some vets are awful, same happened with me with my Boxer years ago, now I have a rescue Staffy named Patch who has IBD we had to see 3 vets before we found a really good vet that wasnt into just feeding these vet diets, vet diets don’t agree with some dogs…. Vet should of prescribe “Metronidazole” antibiotic for stomach & bowel taken twice a day every 12 hours with a meal… for 14-21 days

Alot of dogs who have IBS/IBD symptoms do very well on a grainfree dry food that has limited ingredients & have Sweet Potato & Potato & only has 1 meat protein, what country do you live?
I live Australia & we get the Royal Canine Sensitivity Control & so does Europe/UK
My Patch did really bad on all the Hills & Royal Canine vet diets, the only vet diet that worked was the Eukanuba Intestinal Low Residue dry kibble, take vet diet food back & get a refund & see another vet, go on a day your vet isnt there & say I do not want to see her again, thats what I did when Patches vet wouldnt listen & change him form the Royal Canine Hypoallergenic vet diet, it only has 1% fiber this could be the problem, something is wrong with your dog..
I did Endoscope & 2 x Biopsies you need to do biopsies so vet can see whats wrong, Ultra Scan is NO good, its a waste of money as it still doesn’t give vet any real answers, Ultra Scan is good if dog has a blockage, the biopsies are the best to do..

Do NOT give any boil any rice as boiled rice can irritates the bowel more sometimes, its very old school boiled rice, now vets recommend boiled potato or sweet potato its more gentle on their stomach & bowel, especially when the bowel is already inflammed, boil some peeled cut up potato & add a lean cooked white meat, like turkey breast, chicken breast or lean pork… feed 3-4 times a day…
Resting the bowel for 24 hours is good to do, Patch had to rest his stomach & bowel for 48hrs you must give electroytes in water every hour in a 20ml syringe if the dog isnt eating long for a long period of time, look for vet that specializes in IBD & is supportive & more into holistic ways & not into pushing vet diets as they can make things worse… rest stomach & bowel 24hrs then restart food some boiled potato or sweet potato & turkey breast 1/2 & 1/2, feed 4 small meals..no treats nothing just the boiled sweet potato or potato & a lean white meat..

Join this facebook group, “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” You’ll get heaps of help..You dont have to fed raw diet to join group…
https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/

When you say Surgery, what type of surgery did your dog have & how old is he??

[anonymous]

Well, in that case, if the dog is sick on the food prescribed, consider giving a bland diet (boiled white rice and boiled chicken). Did you ask the vet about this? Any reason this would be contraindicated? Have you tried the bland diet before? What were the results?
Check back with the vet first thing when they open in the morning.
Maybe add a tiny bit of the prescription food in with the chicken and rice…see how it goes.
Also, if the situation gets worse, know where the nearest emergency veterinary clinic is located and have their phone number ready.
If you call your vets office they usually have instructions as to where to contact in case of an emergency. Some even have an on call vet that can be paged to call you back.
I would be very leery of homeopathic remedies and miracle cures.

PS: How old is your dog? What breed? That doesn’t make any sense about a meeting on Wednesday and they’ll get back to you?

Maybe it would be best if you got another opinion (not the internet) but a different veterinarian.

[Spy Car]

Linda, it is not super complex, but there is a ratio of minerals (calcium to phosphorus) that needs to be maintained.

You can do that by making soft edible bone about 10% of the diet.

Here are some bone percentages of common chicken parts:

Chicken Breast (with ribs) 20%
Thigh: 21%
Leg Quarter 28%
Drumstick 30%
Chicken Wings 46%

You can balance by eye. Say you are feeding a drumstick. They are 30% bone. If you figured in parts of 10, a drumstick would provide 2 parts of ten in meat and one part of 10 in bone.

So if you fed two portions of boneless meat that are approximately the same size as the drumstick, you’d have 3 parts of meat from the first portion, 3 parts of meat from the second portion, plus 2 parts of meat from the chicken drumstick. So 8 parts of ten altogether, which hits the target of 80% “meat.”

The drumstick would provide the 10% soft edible bone.

No need to weigh this. You can estimate.

The last 1/10 is organ. You can (despite what someone told you) feed liver every day. However, only half the organs should be liver. The “other” should be things like kidney, sweetbreads (thymus and pancreatic glands), melts (spleen), etc).

To make my life easier I freeze organs in sizes that match 10% of the diet and then alternate days. The first day is a “lever day” and the next is an “other” day. If you can only get beef kidney, that’s OK.

Don’t be dissuaded from beef heart because of one story on the internet. Beef heart is highly nutritious and tends to be inexpensive. Fatty pork like leg, shoulder, and butt are economical too.

Do add new proteins slowly. Smaller to larger pieces.

It is not super complicated to balance bone. If you take a little time to estimate (by eye and using the weight on meat packages as a guide) you will soon find portioning second nature. Meals can be a little over or under on any given day, the key is to be in the general ballpark over time.

Overfeeding bone over the long-term can lead to very bad health consequences. It is one of the legitimate criticisms of raw diets if and when people don’t feed in reasonable approximation to 10% bone. 10% bone and 10% organs, combined with 80% meat, will give your dog the most optimal nutrition.

Carbohydrates in a canine diet directly reduce stamina and energy. But cutting these out as much as possible you should see the renewed vigor you’ve already noticed maintain or increase. Unfortunately, many “senior” dog formulas start cutting protein and fat (and increasing carbs) at the life stage where older dogs are already losing energy. It is the worst possible approach and one that will advance lethargy.

I hope this helps you.

Bill

[LINDA F]

Hi Bill!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!! I was afraid the bones might be a problem but every time I tried to get a straight answer, they would start talking about calcium and phosphorus and what % to what % of meat and then adjust that to the dog’s weight plus adding a certain % of green veggies and fruits, and my eyes would roll back in my head! Just teasing but as you read in my posts, I am an old lady and unfortunately I also have macular degeneration so trying to get a scale with numbers large enough for me to read but still capable of weighing things less than 10 lbs is near impossible. Also one of the posts I read on this site stated her dog was doing fine on a raw diet until she gave it a beef heart and now the dog is critically ill! I’m already as skittish as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs about feeding her the raw diet so I certainly do not want to add something that could be dangerous to her! Could I just substitute deboned chicken thighs instead of the legs and thighs with bones? Would just one chicken wing with bones and two deboned chicken thigh with a couple of gizzards/hearts and a quarter cup of beef or chicken liver every day be okay for the once a day raw feeding while she is still eating 14 oz of wet food and approximately 1-2 cups of kibble where she will still get some of the minerals etc she needs to flourish? Was the guy who said feeding liver everyday incorrect and not dangerous after all as long as I do not feed her too much liver every day? I am simply incapable of weighing her raw food every day and adding more measured items at the right % of each. I have always been very independent so I hate to keep harping on my age and the limits on my abilities but I order my groceries from Walmart and once a week my son will come over and drive me to the pick up dept to pick up my ordered groceries before he has to be at his work. He often works 6 days a week. There are not many butcher shops in the small town where I live. He does not have time to drive me around to meat markets to buy the things that Walmart does not stock. They do not carry beef hearts but they do carry beef liver! I have shied away from buying roasts or large cuts of meat due to having to cut them up and weigh them to get the right proportions. I could easily cut up the beef liver and feed her a quarter cup or half cup, whatever would not be dangerous for her. Using a measuring cup is no problem since I have individual measuring cups and can tell which is which. Measuring by weight is another matter altogether. I really do appreciate your post and it has confirmed my gut feeling that perhaps I was including too much bone. But, lordy me, does that dog love to crunch up those bones! She is okay with the thighs and drumsticks but does not relish them as much as she does those chicken wings! Surely one wing with bones is not too much bone in her every day diet? She weighs about 65-70 lbs. If I cut out the kibble and wet dog food, she would not get enough food to satisfy her hunger and I simply cannot measure all those items in the proper percents to put her on a completely raw diet. She was pretty close to giving up until I added the (to me) small amount of raw food to her regular diet. Before adding the raw diet, she sometimes would not really eat much for several days at a time. Now she is eating almost all the wet food and almost all the kibble and every bite of the raw chicken every day! I truly apologize for being such a pain but I honestly appreciate what you have suggested. I forgot to mention that she is also on thyroid medication which she gets twice a day. Sincerely, Linda

[LINDA F]

Hi! Okay, here is my story and do not take this as informed or a professional opinion. I have kept 3 dogs in my home for most of my adult life and I am now 75! All dogs are seen by my vet several times a year including a full “WELLNESS” check up once a year. I currently have a 12 year old rescued pit bill that is so sweet and a joy to have around. On her last check up, her liver values were very high. So my trusted vet of 20 yrs told me it could be a mass in her belly, Cushings Disease or liver disease. I asked what can I do. His first recommendation was to do a liver ultra scan which did not show anything out of the normal except it looked that it might have “sludge”. His next step was to advise a liver biopsy which due to her age and need for anesthesia, could be fatal, plus it is costly. Or we could do a stomach exploration but the same warnings were in effect and again very costly. So I asked a simple question, what treatment would be employed should it be a stomach mass or Cushings? He said he would not really change what he was already we were already doing. I then told him that since the tests were so expensive, I did not need to know the name of the exact malady that was killing her if it would not treated differently. I then asked him would he do if it were his dog? His reply was due to her advanced age and the very large risk anesthetic posed to her, that if it were his dog, he would not chance it. Twelve years is a respectful old age for a dog and he would just try to make her comfortable and happy for her remaining time with us. Now she did not appear to be in any discomfort but of course with a dog, you cannot always tell that. It’s not like they can tell you “My tummy hurts”. However I did notice that her energy levels and appetite were dropping and she began to lose weight and muscle mass. I have a friend who is a certified dog trainer. I was whining to him about feeling useless to help my dear old companion and he suggested that I try a raw diet. I told him at 75, I am really not up to weighing meat to combine with a list of dog supplements that have to be purchased and are sometimes hard to find, then measure all those to mix with steamed vegetables to go along with the raw chicken parts. So I just made this diet up. I feed her one can of a premium wet food for breakfast around 6am. She sometimes eats all of it and sometimes just nibbles at it. Around noon, I feed her one raw drumstick, one raw thigh, and one raw chicken wing, all with bones. I buy the same chicken as I feed my family so I am hoping they are safe for her! I also buy a package of hearts and gizzards and a package of raw chicken livers. I add to the raw chicken a couple of gizzards and hearts. I read from a raw diet blog that you should not feed raw livers every day but 2-3 times a week. I can manage that! She eats every scrap left in the bowl and then licks it to make sure she got every morsel! Then at night I give her a cup or two of Zignature kibble. Again sometimes her bowl is licked clean in the morning, sometimes it is just nibbled on but over all, she mostly eats everything I put in her bowl! Wonders of wonders! She has put back the weight she had lost and is building muscle mass! No, she is no where near gaining enough weight to make her fat but her energy levels are up, her coat is shiny and she once again seems to be really enjoying her life. I figured if all these premium diets touted that they have all the proper amount of supplements a dog needs and she usually eats almost everythingl, that perhaps I don’t have to kill my own old silly self trying to keep her alive and happy! Just to make sure you do not misunderstand me, if she were my one and only dog, I would probably be able to do all the searching for supplements and weighing etc but I also have a year old Morkie and an 8 month old Rottweiler that I feed twice a day. I do not feed the other two dogs a raw diet. As a treat once or twice a week, I will feed the Morkie a chicken liver or a heart or a gizzard but since the Rotty is a large breed dog and still growing, she does not get any raw chicken parts. The other two dogs have no problems eating wet dog/kibble each day and are thriving so no reason to rock the boat for them by changing their diet! I don’t know if I am doing the right thing with my old pit bull. All I know is that for the last two months, since I began the diet above, my old pit bull seems eager to eat. She looks forward to her early morning walks once more, is alert and even goes out to play with the two young pups. Now, she does not chase them as she would have when she was younger, but she seems to enjoy trotting a few yards as they streak by her while she is wagging her tail and barking! I may be doing all the wrong things and hastening her death but my conscious is clear since she appears to be enjoying her life now and before she just looked and acted old and feeble. Again, this is just my own solution and it has NOT been approved by any professional. Please no hate mail but I would welcome any comments or suggestions that do not require a large amount of my own decreasing energy levels. Oh yeah, at first I tried adding the freeze dried raw food by Stella (?) to their Zignature kibble but none of my dogs really cared for it.
Thanks for reading this long email but I think it’s an old age thing! LOL!!!
Sincerely,
Linda

[joanne l]

Bill, I understand what your saying, but not all dog foods have corn gluten in them, I am talking about these peas and chickpeas and lentils being HIGH in phytic acid. This could be a problem. What I read did not say anything about corn. All dog foods have their positives and negatives. And from what I read about these legumes and the FDA warning I don’t feel content feeding it. I am not talking about cheap ingredients. I am talking about dogs not being able to absorb their nutrition from high amounts of legumes. And a lot of companies do use a lot of them. Fact #1 Rice and other refine grains do not have phytic acid, only some grains do but not high like beans and legumes and peas. So even if rice and such is cheap I don’t think it can do harm, unless a dog is allergic to it. After all grains bin in dog food for years and years. This article also mentions the harm of eating it daily (legumes) and a lot of it. And most grain free diets have a lot of it and some are feed it on a daily basis, I just don’t feel that this is good.
Here is just a small example: 1 cup of chickpeas has 39 grams of protein vs 1 cup of oatmeal is 6 grams and 1 cup of brown rice is 5 grams vs 1 cup of lentils is 18 grams. And of course white rice is practically 0. And 1 cup of corn has 3 grams of protein.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Hi everyone, I was reading about legumes and I found some interesting info. peas and legumes contain high amounts of phytic acid and I read that too much of it can cause malabsorption of iron, zinc. calcium and magnesium. Research is still wondering about taurine too. Here is a paragraph I copied:
“However, phytic acid can be a significant problem when diets are largely composed of high-phytate foods while at the same time low in meat or other animal-derived products.”

Seems like from what I read pet food companies, like we mentioned before, boost the protein from these legumes and peas, and less protein meat. They can’t boost too much protein when grains are listed, because grains don’t have as nearly as much protein as legumes and peas and chickpeas. This has had my interest for a while. They need to get rid of these ingredients or don’t put a lot in the dog food period!

[Jill K]

Thank you for your replies. For now Nilla is tolerating the canned rabbit, although Susan brought it to my attention that it has a high fat content. I’m banking on when I see the nutritionist next week she will give me guidance on the best protein-to-fat-to-carb ratio Nilla should be on.
“I would feed her whatever she enjoys as long as it agrees with her” – Unfortunately I cannot do this. When I gave her boiled chicken her IBD flared up intensely. For now I’m going to follow dr’s orders and keep her on this one novel protein. My short term goal would be to get her off the metronidazole and maintain good digestive health, and the long term goal is to wean her to the lowest possible dose of prednisone. I feel very blessed that I live in the New York City area where there are vets with specialties in cancer, nutrition, etc. We have received superb care at the speciality animal hospital, and they have directed us to experts in holistic and nutrition care as well. We have excellent pet insurance, and although they do not cover everything, it has helped tremendously.
Susan, I’m so sorry to hear that you received such different and negligent information from the various vets you saw. Many years ago we fostered a beautiful black lab named Queenie who was suffering from a congenital kidney disease. She was a breeding dog for a Guiding Eyes agency and the kidney disease reared it’s ugly head during her first (and only) pregnancy. After several bouts of IV fluids, the vet told us that we would “know” when the time was right to let her go. To this day I am haunted by the fact that I put her down too soon. One morning we came downstairs and she didn’t wag her tail or stand up to greet us, but instead lay curled up in front of the warm cozy fireplace. I took that as a sign that she was ready to go. However, on the drive to the vet she was happy and looking out the window, and while walking from the parking lot to the vet’s office she was curious, sniffing, exploring, wagging her tail, etc. I know that ultimately she couldn’t survive with her kidney disease, but almost 14 years later I still question if that was the right thing to do on that day. I’m not making the same mistake with Nilla. She still has a lot of spunk and life in her. Her life may not be the same as it was when she was healthy and had four legs — she may not be able to roll in the mud or hike the woods as she used to do, but she is still social, curious, affectionate, and seems happy. She is not in any pain, which is primary for me. I’ll keep you all posted on my sweet Nilla girl!

[Susan]

Hi Jill,
I had a Boxer Angie she had Mast Cell Tumors diagnosed age 8yrs old, she wasnt her happy self, no more she was sleeping more, didn’t want to go on her daily walks or come in the car shopping, her poos became black, vomiting blood, so I took her to see the RSPCA vet where I adopted her from 6yrs before, the vet asked me has she eaten breakfast this morning, I said no Ang eats breakfast at 11am, the vet said I want to remove these lumps ASAP now they don’t look good, I said but I seen another vet where I live about 1 yr ago, the vet said not the vet on Darby st, please say no, I said yes, we always walk past to go to the beach & one day I seen her out the front with another vet who was visiting from America, I stopped & I showed them both her wierd looking lump on the back of her leg, they BOTH said its nothing, its just an old lady wort, its nothing to worry about, this RSPCA vet just shook her head & said if these lumps were removed 1 yr year ago the cancer wouldn’t be as this advanced….Angie had a few Mast Cell tumors 1 on back of her leg & other lumps & bumps all were removed she looked a Quit, full of patches everywhere, 1/2 of her nipples were removed, when I came to take her home that afternoon, the vet said we have removed more then we thought, she wasnt allowed to come home & had to stay the night the poor thing….
She had another operation as some of the Mast Cell Tumors came back within 3months of removing, my mum said, let her go Susan, I said but she looks good, the little bit of weight she had lost made her her perfect weight 30kg, then she was cancer free BUT she didn’t get better, so the RSPCA vet said you can do Endoscope to see if she has Ulcers from the Mast Cell Tumors as the Mast Cell sets off histimines that attacks the stomach..So I was reffered to another vet that had the Endoscope Camera, it became the vet practice where I go now & take my Staffy Patch who has IBD…
My Angie never got better it was all down hill, I wish I listened to the first vet from the RSPCA when he said, I can put her to sleep on the back seat of your car, I thought to myself, Im not putting my Angie to sleep on my back seat of my car… I was thinking what will I do without my Angie, I cant put her to sleep its all too quick, the same vet did say to me, you have to be strong Susan, Angie sounds like she has been there for you 6 years now? so its your turn now to help her…. I couldn’t put her to sleep, my daughter couldnt PTS either, so I wasted another few thousand dollars doing Endoscope, she had no ulcers & the stupid vet didnt do any biospies, so the Endoscope was pointless but I didnt know all this back then 2009 now I do….
Angie was put on ant acid meds Zantac & Carafate, other medications Valium, Pain meds that made her feel very sick, nausea, vomit, I dont think she could take the Prednisone she took something else similiar, I cant remember the name its started with S she was also put on Hills Z/D dry food in the end & this caused extream stomach pain & she refused to eat it, I told the new vet & he said, Oh she’s just spoilt she’ll eat it, I have found male vets are heartless when it comes to a sick dog, I prefer lady vets & lady vet nurses..
We had had another sleepless 1/2 of the night again up 12am-3am, Angie crying with her pain, so I ended up ringing a mobil vet 8.30am Saturday morning, the mobil vet came 9am & he said gee are you sure she is sick, she started running around all excited we had a visitor, the vet said, she’s in really good condition, then I showed him Angies vet folder, all her tests, her operations, all the meds we had tried & they didnt help etc then he gave her a valium injection, then I talked to Angie for 20mins told her we are going for a walk to the beach I’ll see you at the beach Ang & the vet put her to sleep, he said she’ll have green dreams now…Finally she was painfree… I couldnt fix my Angie, she never had a sick day in her life until she turned 8yrs old, she could eat anything, she was a beautiful dog, a real lady … 🙁

The Nature’s Logic canned rabbit food you’re feeding is 7%min fat, when you convert that to dry matter (Kibble) this is around 35-40%max fat, this would be too high in fat for Nilla, you’re better off cooking & making her a bland diet with lean white meats like Turkey breast, lean Pork, I know you said No pork but the Natures Logic wet can rabbit food has Pork liver in it, she’ll probably do really well on pork, alot of IBD dogs do very well eating sweet Potato, white Potato, Gluten Free Pasta, I know she needs to have some fat in her diet to gain some weight, but is Nilla still on Predisone & the ant acid blocker Losec? if not put her back on the Losec 20mg given every morning, also you cannot just stop the Prilosec once its been taken for 3-4 weeks it must be slowley reduced as all the hydrochloric acid come rushing back into stomach all at once until the stomach acid go back to normal..Taking an acid blocker might make her want to eat again or reduce the fat in her diet with cooked lean meals & see does she get her appetite back again?? My IBD boy takes Pantoprazole 20mg now its an ant acid blocker, he did take Losec for 2 years then it didn’t seem to work…..
If you still want to feed wet can food look at either a low fat vet diet Royal Canine HP or Royal Canine Intestinal Low Fat or Hills I/d Low Fat Stew can food, as these wet can foods are under 8% in fat so they’re 1.7%-2%max fat is written on the canof food, so when converted to Dry Mater (DM) they’re 7-8% in fat & wont cause as bad acid reflux…
No wet can foods or premade raw food, fat % protein % fiber % is converted yet…
or look at “Walk About”
http://walkaboutpetproducts.com/dog-food/
“Walk About” has Rabbit, Kangaroo, Boar, Quail, Duck, the fat is 2%min & isn’t converted, the moisture is 82% so when you convert the fat it will be higher, when you see 78% Moisture this is better, the fat will be a bit lower…. I converted the fat in the Walk About Rabbit formula & it’s around 11.11%min fat, same with the Walk About kangaroo formula, The Walk About wet can foods are heaps lower in fat then the Nature Logic Rabbit formula.. It’s best to email Walk About or other dog food companies who sell wet can foods you want to try & ask them can you have the fat convertion to dry matter please.
eg- when you see 5%min fat, 78% moisture on a wet can of dog food, this 5%min fat when converted will be around 20%min fat to 26% max fat…

Here’s a Dog Food Guaranteed Analysis Calculator link, save it…

Dog Food Calculators

If you can cook, cook & freeze small meals, I make rissoles balls, I buy 1kg = 2lbs of lean 5 star Beef or Pork mince low fat, I whisk 1 egg, add to the beef mince some freshly chopped parsley & add about 1 teaspoon parsley, then I chop a few small brocolli heads & grate 1 small peeled carrot, mix all together & make either 1/4 cup size rissole balls or 1/2 a cup size rissole balls & put on a foil lined baking tray & bake for 15mins take out drain any water/fat turn over the rissole balls then bake for another 15mins till ready do not over cook as you’ll have leather rissoles, you can eat these rissoles with some mashed potatoes, I also boil 1 peeled cut up sweet potato then boil then cool & freeze those sweet potato in a sandwich clip lock bags & make sure the sweet potato pieces aren’t touching each other if they do touch then when frozen just wack on kicthen bench while still in sandwich bag & they should separate, you can add 1/2 cup size rissole ball & about 1/3 cup boiled sweet potato then I put 1 rissole ball & the sweet potato pieces in a blender & blend your dog will really like the rissoles, you can make turkey breast mince into rissoles & add some boiled Sweet Potato, theyre really nice, also scrambled egg make Nilla 1 scambled egg, what ever your eating as long as its not hot chillie, curry etc she can eats some & feed about 4-5 small meals a day get her back into a rountine & ask vet about ant acid medication..I use Quick eze chews as well for my IBD boy he comes & tells me & looks at the draw that has his meds in it…
The Canine Nutritionist will help but be careful with omega oils as these can cause acid reflux & then Nilla may not want to eat again so be fully intune with Nilla so you know whats wrong, also with the Walk About wet can foods you can boil some potato & add 1/2 wet can food & 1/3 boiled Potato this the potato should firm up her poos..

I hope you find answers & fix Nilla up but if you look into Nilla eyes & they have lost their spark, put her to sleep…its the best thing you can do for Nilla…

[Susan]

Hi Alexandria,

So sorry what has happened with your baby Roxi, ask the new vet will Roxi pull thru or is it too late & is she suffering? if he says yes she is suffering, then say goodbye & put her to sleep, I know its hard but it’s the best thing you can do for her, then ask the vet what do you do now as you have 2 more dogs at home, do they get vacinated for Lepto or is it too late?.. & can you report this first vet to someone? as he sounds like he didnt have a clue, also was he the vet who cleaned her teeth? I wonder if his teeth equipment was dirty & not sterile properly?, I’ve read a few post on a different site where the dog is fine, he/she goes in gets their teeth cleaned then is very ill 1-2 weeks later??

Are you on facebook? here’s a public group called “Dogs with renal / kidney failure”
they might be able to help you more, I saw Puree foods..
https://www.facebook.com/groups/582094775463298/?ref=br_rs
can you puree some Sweet Potato with a few veggies?
I live Australia & we do not have Leptospirosis it’s sounds awful…
Roxi is in my prays…

I just found this Facebook group “Lepto Vaccines & Kidney Failure in Dogs” join
https://www.facebook.com/groups/360769831123715/
there will be someone who can help you….the lady of this group tells her story & leaves her email address aswell, you might get a quicker response while waiting to join the group good luck, here’s her email- [email protected]
she also wrote that your vet has to report it to the VMD?

[Susan]

Hi,

“I am thinking of changing his food, but I don’t want to upset his stomach”,

his intestinal tract is already upset, if he was doing really well on this Purina Pro Plan Sensitive stomach formula, his poos would be nice & firm, he wouldn’t be drinking & drinking water & he wouldnt be licking his bum…

DRINKING heaps of water- if his poos are soft/sloppy & not firm then he might be dehydrated, something in this formula might be dehydrating him like too many soluble fibers…your dog mighten have problems digesting his foods, your dog might be OK & can digest foods, he might digest his food too quickly like Patch does, so he doesnt need these type of ingredients that are high in soluble fibers that digest in teh small bowel, this could be the reason for drinking excess water??

Licking bum area or rubbing bum on ground/grass could be food sensitivities, something in this Pro Plan formula he’s sensitive too….
or his anal glands are full & need emptying, his poos mighten be firm enough & his anal glands are not naturally emptying now, this happens with Patch when he eats a grain kibble that’s higher in soluble fibers, maize/corn gluten meal, barley, oats, rice, & his poos aren’t firm enough to empty his anal glands…

Have you seen the Purina Poo chart??
https://www.proplanveterinarydiets.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/PPPVD-Fecal-Scoring-Chart-EN-FINAL.pdf

I really think alot of his Intestinal problems is to do with FIBER, Soluble fiber & Insoluble fiber & he cant handle too much soluble fiber ingredients as they digest too quickly in the small bowel & he might be like Patch & digests his food quickly anyway, so when they eat foods that are higher in soluble fibers this is when their poos are sloppy & are not firm.
He needs a dry food that has more insoluble fiber & less soluble fiber & alot of grain free formulas have more insoluble fiber ingredients & less soluble fiber ingredients..

Potatoes- Fiber from potatoes comes in both forms, soluble and insoluble, the “insoluble content is higher”. This is probably why dogs with IBS or IBD do really well when they eat a kibble that has potato in it…

He’d probably do better on a Large Breed grain free kibble that has potato?? or a grain kibble that has potato in it…

Make sure the next kibble you try has at least 2-3 meat protein meals as 1st & 2nd ingredients, so there’s less fiber in his diet & more meat but not too much meat 25%-34%, the Purina Pro plan Lamb & Oatmeal Sensitive Stomach doesnt have much meat protein in it, it has more plant proteins which = higher soluble fiber ingredients….

Have a look at Victor, a few people say their dogs are doing really well eating Victor dog food..
Look at the Victor Select formula’s, Victor uses the Montmorillonite clay.
Chicken Meal & Brown Rice with Lamb meal.
https://victorpetfood.com/products/chicken-meal-brown-rice-formula

or look at “Whole Earth Farms” Adult, it’s made by Purina if you like Purina but I really would look at a different brand for now.
https://www.feedgoodness.com/products/recipe?title=Adult-Recipe&id=6
or
“Whole Earth Farm” Grain Free Recipe with Pork, Beef & Lamb (Poultry-Free)
For All Breeds & Life Stages
https://www.feedgoodness.com/products/recipe?title=Whole-Earth-Farms-Grain-Free-Recipe-with-Pork%2C-Beef-&-Lamb-(Poultry-Free)&id=8

[Susan]

Hi
until vet finds out why he isnt keen on eating, I’d treat him as if he has IBS/IBD…..
Feed him fresh foods, NO kibble, he doesn’t like kibble, he’s made that pretty clear, kibble must cause pain, nausea, acid reflux & makes whatever is wrong with him worse, so best to stop offering him any dry kibble, you’re just wasting money…
Feed lean white meats, feed him meats he likes to eat, try my Rissole Balls recipe or Judy Morgan Pup loaf with either ground lean Turkey or ground lean chicken breast with a whisked egg made into small balls bake in oven so all the fat comes out, then add some boil sweet potatoes for the carb, sweet potatoes are healthy & sweet, dogs love sweet things, also boil rice can he eat boiled rice?? put all in a blender & blend with his chicken…
I know he needs the fat in his diet to gain weight but high fat diet can cause diarrhea, stomach pain, acid reflux, pancreatitis….
also try limited ingredients wet can foods instead of dry kibble, make sure the wet can foods have 4% fat or are under 4% fat in just incase he is getting acid reflux or Pancreatitis pain etc….then he wont want to eat any wet can foods like he doesn’t eat the dry kibble…
Keep a diary so when vet ask question you have diary also for yourself foods you have tried….
Did you get 1 can of the Hills I/d Digestive Care Chicken, Rice & Vegetables Stew? then you would have known if he liked it, the wet vet diets are made for dogs wont eat, the wet vet diet can foods smell really good & are guaranteed for palability…
should have tried a Wet can Vet diet for Intestinal Health, use 1 can & add your own ingredients & double the amount of ingredients for the day & keep in the fridge then he’s getting a balanced diet & all the nutrients he needs.. if food is cold heat up in microwave, did you ask vet about trying the “Mirtazapine” to increase his appetite??.
Maybe the Pepcid given twice a day morning & dinner, 30mins before he eats might make him feel better & want to eat & reduce any acid reflux….fingers X ??
you can also try Zantac it’s the same type of drug its a newer ant acid drug…..

The Ultra Scan might show nothing, I always read people first get blood test everything comes back good, then they get Ultra Scan, result come back everything “looks” OK cause it doesn’t show enough a& if something does come up then further testing is needed, Ultra Scans are good if vet needs to see the Pancreas or if there’s a blockage or vet wants to see if there’s any thickening of the bowel but your boy is a bit young to have thickening of the bowel already?? & when it comes to the stomach, the vet said the pancreas was in the way to get a good look at Patches stomach so I wasted about $400….
I’ve heard there’s the new 3D Ultra scan now, maybe this is heaps better & vet can see heaps more then the normal Ultra Scan but the vet need to have this new 3d Ultra scan & I don’t know how modern your vet practice is…

Email or ring leave a msg for your vet to call you back when she’s not busy have a written list of question you have forgotten to ask her & tell your vet, my husband said no its too expensive for Ultra Scan & ask your vet what procedure will give you the most answers, she will say Biopsies & ask how much will it cost for Endoscope & 2 Biopsies to be done?
then ask your vet are there any Clinical Trials – looking for participants, any School of Veterinary Science who are doing clinical trials/studies for research or learning vets, needing to learn on dogs at the moment… we have few trials in Australia at the moment.

Pitlove might know more about this..

[Julie M]

Natural low fat raw definitely the way to go for you. There are many low fat meat proteins, being in Australia kangaroo is very low fat. Grass fed human grade beef, goat, rabbit, bison in US all should be low fat. And to maintain they ideal weight, I feed 2.5% of my dogs weight per day. There are many natural raw feeding sites with some great information. In Australia we can also buy frozen ready prepared Barf meals which are great for those who are time poor

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Julie M.

[Melanie B]

Dear Tamara,

I know exactly how you are feeling. 4 years ago, our Sheltie,

Cooper, was diagnosed with Idiopathic Chylothorax. I had never heard of this before. We did opt to have the plural ports surgically inserted, because his lungs were so diminished. We pulled fluid from his chest for approx. one year. I also did a lot of reading about this disease. Because of the fluid buildup in the chest, the chest can become inflamed. So, we started him on 3000 mg of Rutin daily (1000 mg 3 x’s daily). Also, started him on Raw Unfiltered Honey, and sprinkled Ceylon Cinnamon on top (the only cinnamon dogs can have), this is for the inflammation. About 1 Tablespoon of honey with a good sprinkling of cinnamon on top of the meals.. breakfast and dinner. I found Nutro dog food to have the lowest fat count. My dog would not eat the food the Dr recommended.. it was really dry. This was and still is our regimen. Fast forward, our Cooper is now 9. We no longer have to pull fluid, his lungs are again in great condition. You would never know he had ever been sick. I know this is not the case for all dogs diagnosed. But, I wanted you to know this is not necessarily a death sentence, as I had thought. So, we followed the above regimen, along with lots and lots of prayers, and our boy is doing wonderful.

I wish you the absolute best with your baby!!!!!

Sincerely,

Melanie

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

——– Original message ——–

From: Dog Food Advisor <[email protected]>

Date: 9/16/18 5:51 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: [email protected]

Subject: [Dog Food Advisor] Low-fat healthy diet needed

Tamera S wrote:

Been reading through all these posts and could find any recent from Nancy M. I was wondering how things turned out for her baby. Any of these babies really. We are heartbroken, as our 3 & 1/2 year old Sheltie has just been diagnosed with Idiopathic Chylothorax. The specialist I took him to terrified me, and he will not be going back to them even if we decide on surgery. When I told them we wanted to try least invasive options like Rutin and a low fat diet first, she wouldn’t be listen. Then came back telling me they nicked Scout’s lung when draining fluid so now his chest was filling with air! They wanted to keep him overnight, I refused to let them, he is fine, no symptoms they said he would have because of their incompetence. I feel they where just a surgery factory. My regular vet closed her practice and moved out of country on the Friday before this all happened. We are $2000 in. No surgery, just drain and diagnostic. No answers. I have talked to a Holistic doctor and he recommended supplements to ssupport his urinary tract as well. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We love our baby and want to do the best we can to give him the full and active life he deserves.
TIA
Tamera

Post Link: /forums/topic/low-fat-healthy-diet-needed/#post-121737

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[Tamera S]

Been reading through all these posts and could find any recent from Nancy M. I was wondering how things turned out for her baby. Any of these babies really. We are heartbroken, as our 3 & 1/2 year old Sheltie has just been diagnosed with Idiopathic Chylothorax. The specialist I took him to terrified me, and he will not be going back to them even if we decide on surgery. When I told them we wanted to try least invasive options like Rutin and a low fat diet first, she wouldn’t be listen. Then came back telling me they nicked Scout’s lung when draining fluid so now his chest was filling with air! They wanted to keep him overnight, I refused to let them, he is fine, no symptoms they said he would have because of their incompetence. I feel they where just a surgery factory. My regular vet closed her practice and moved out of country on the Friday before this all happened. We are $2000 in. No surgery, just drain and diagnostic. No answers. I have talked to a Holistic doctor and he recommended supplements to ssupport his urinary tract as well. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We love our baby and want to do the best we can to give him the full and active life he deserves.
TIA
Tamera

[anonymous]

All dogs that are sick can be enticed to eat a meal or two, something new, especially if you cook for them.
From the information provided (read the OP’s original post) this is not a senior dog, poor appetite is unusual in a dog this young…unless something is wrong. Plus the dog is underweight.
So, instead of trying this or that, I would have whatever diagnostic tests that your vet advises, asap.
Regarding the need for an endoscopy, I have never had one done on any dog I have owned, that would be an extreme measure. An invasive procedure.
Usually a basic GI workup and labs will lead to an accurate diagnosis, then you can go from there.
Best of luck
Ps: A biopsy is usually done with a very thin needle, takes a second. Just wanted to correct some incorrect info I saw (I ignore as much as I can) plus your vet may not think it is indicated.

[2doodlemom]

Hi Susan and Joanne:

Thanks again for your support and all the great ideas. I am already trying some of them before I fnd out more next week at the Vet with blood test and all.

Thanks for the slippery Elm receipe, already trying that but didnt know I have to give it 30 min before a meal do will do that.

I may not be able to rotate dry kibble even if I want to as I have tried different kibble and he just won’t even touch them. The only thing he does like most days is cooked Chicken, but after eating it some times he will get diarrhea. So it’s a double edged sword.
I would like to try more cooked foods for him, but he so far will not eat ground beef or any fish.
I would like to be able to join and read the post of the FB page but I do not have a FB account and do not want one so I dont think I can read the post without one.
Did some one say there is also a Yahoo Group for dogs with GI problems? I think I read it somewhere but now cant find it.
Thanks again.

[Linda K]

Hi Amelia,
Thank you for sharing the links to all you shared! I’ll look at them tomorrow. I have spent most of today trying to find a taurine supplement that meets the specifications of the cardiologist. It can contain no artificial sugars, no additional supplements and no minerals. Well, OK, except the truth is, such an animal does not exist. I have gone to every pharmacy within 50 miles and searched the shelves. Many didn’t have taurine of any kind. But if they had it, there were certain ingredients in every one, including magnesium stearate and Vitamin B6. Well, magnesium is a mineral, B6 is a supplement. However, magnesium, by popular consensus among polled pharmacists, in stearate form is “a filler and not to be construed as a mineral.” B-6 is indeed a supplement. I called the cardiologist, and she called me back finally. And guess what she said. “Oh, gosh, the Vitamin Shoppe brand you’ve been using is fine. You aren’t going to find anything purer than that one is.” Soooo, I held my tongue and resisted the urge to yell at her and tell her that she could have indicated that in her notes. I had to take the bottles in with us yesterday so they could check the dosages and ingredients! It’s been a fun fun day!

Thank you for the compliment about my boy. If we ever get each other’s email addresses, I’ll send you a picture. I’d like to see Auggie and Kodi too.

I have no idea where my vet got those numbers for normal taurine blood values. But I can’t figure out a lot about that guy.

I’d like to hear why you’re annoyed with the cardiologist. You said it’s a long story. I love to read your emails, so do tell. Unless it’s too annoying and too long or you don’t want to re-visit it.

I’m tired. I’ll look for more from you tomorrow and post after I check out your links. Doc Pierce still seems to love the new food, keep it down, and poop it perfectly. My great sunt used to talk about her poop color, consistency and texture, and I thought that was so odd. I talk about my dog’s! How odd is THAT?😏

[joanne l]

Hi 2doodlemon, if you find a dog food that works for him please don’t rotate his food. Unless the vet tells you too.
P.S. Sorry Susan, for butting in with the idea for rotating foods. Some dogs can develop IBS from doing that. My vet told me that advice. In my experience rotating did not go well with me and my dog. Now if you are rotating fresh food that I can do. But dog food is a formula, once the dog adjusts to it and is doing well I was told leave it alone. Formulas are much different than fresh food rotating. That is my experience with it. I know it is the old school way, but anymore the old school seems better than the new for me.
here is something to read https://www.dogfoodinsider.com/rotating-dog-food-good-idea/

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by joanne l.

[judy w]

hello everyone, i have been following recent posts from email notifications after signing up on this thread in July. i got confused because i think there are two Melissa T’s? or maybe it’s just more symptoms of the ways my brain has been not fully functioning right from stress levels.

i am sad to hear about dogs and owners going through health conditions, trying to help, and sometimes, the help, the medicine, causes its own serious medical problems.

the thing that is most frustrating for me about this is the way that many vets, not all, are kind of in denial of the risks related to adverse effects. There should be informed consent when giving a medication even when risk is believed to be small. The risks should be discussed with the owner so that they can know the risks they are choosing to take in advance, not to overreact if risk is small but just to be aware because their individual pet is not a statistic but someone they know well. The owner is the one who is at home with the dog 24/7 and knows that dog individually, and in that way, even though the vet has the training and education and clinical experience, the owner has experience with their individual dog and can be in a better position to know when something just isn’t right.

i deal with this with my own doctors too. i always search for doctors that are openly cautious about medications, and when they recommend them, they also address the risks and say something like “if you see anything that concerns you, call me right away.” i have mostly had the opposite experience with doctors, because that is their training and they believe it is the best judgement and want to reassure patients that they know what they are doing. Some are better than others at being collaborative with patients and pet owners.

in the case of Galliprant, it’s so new, there isn’t a lot of clinical experience with it, so no vet should assure a patient when side effects come up after being on the treatment for weeks, that it can’t be the medication that’s causing it, especially a new medication, but all medications are always being learned about and while there are statistical generalizations from pharmaceutical company research required by FDA for approval, those are still generalizations, not absolute universal outcomes, there are a percentages of dogs that have had adverse effects, or effects that are not understood, serious enough to be mentioned. when 10% of those they studied get diarrhea and vomiting, my dog could be one of those, because they don’t know what the risk factors of that are or how to predict that in each case.

When my dog’s vet really pressured me to give him Galliprant in mid July when i posted here before, we didn’t know what was wrong with him or what was causing his sudden stiffness and difficulty moving. i read over one of the posts and i had written that she, the vet, had said that in addition to having a painful spine, he also had a distended abdomen. We talked about her doing an ultrasound, a technician came in twice a week, and i was planning on having it done the following week.

As it turned out, i took him for his second acupuncture treatment with the new holistic vet, for his back pain, and she examined him and said “no acupuncture today.” She commented on his distended abdomen and said she would like to do abdominal x-rays. she did and she showed me that his abdomen looked abnormal, there was detail you can usually see that was not clear on his xray. she went over some different possibilities of what might cause that, there were about 4, one was heart related but as she said, he had just had chest x rays and exam at the cardiologist a couple of weeks before and that cause didn’t show up. We all three, me, regular vet and holistic vet, thought the heart would be the most likely cause because he has advanced mitral valve disease. She said the only other possibility that wasn’t ruled out yet was cancer of the abdominal wall. 🙁 so, that seemed to be the most likely theory, and she said get him in to see an internal medicine doctor ASAP to find out what is going on.

i got an appointment for the next day at the specialty clinic with an internal medicine doctor and she did an abdominal x ray, she said it looked like the fluid in his abdomen was related to heart dysfunction. His cardiologist was there and took over and did full cardio eval and said Zack had right side congestive heart failure and pulmonary hypertension, severe, and he said he could remove the fluid from the abdomen which would make him feel better, so he did that and said they removed 800 ml of fluid. wow, that’s a lot. poor baby. no wonder he was having trouble moving around and eating his food. After the fluid was removed, he began to gradually get more normal, he was put on a diuretic, furosemide (Lasix), and also pimobendan (vetmedin) which is a dog medication for the heart (no human version). my memory is confused, think there were just those two. Either that week or the following week he started sildenafil which is better known as Viagra, which can be used for pulmonary hypertension to lower it.

Zack gradually became more normal and is pretty normal now. for me, there was so much stress about giving him the medications, they definitely have potential adverse effects , the diuretic can damage his kidneys, etc, so i had to give it to him but not unambivalently, and my own stress level about everything probably played a part in me having a lot of trouble remembering which medication to give when, and also, i found sometimes i would give him a pill and later find it on the floor, and he would then not have that dose since i didn’t know which dose he didn’t swallow.

i got an app called Medisafe that someone told me about that helps me remember what time to give which pills. Gradually the level of crisis went down but for a long time, i was thrashed by it, and at the beginning of when Zack first got his symptoms, i went to a specialist doctor appointment for a spreading skin rash i had for many years, other dermatologists had not diagnosed what it was, and that day, right at the beginning of Zack’s crisis i was told i have a cancer, a cutaneous T cell lymphoma, and i was reassured that most people don’t die from it, and the treatments aren’t bad, and that day, i started having whole body light treatments three days a week, so that was going on while i was trying to find out what was wrong with Zack, seeing three vets, two of them multiple times, and also trying to research the cancer thing on the internet and not feeling very good about what i was finding, scary treatments. then i got my biopsy results, he had taken three biopsies and sent them to two top labs in other parts of the country and when they came back finally after two weeks, he said it didn’t show results that confirmed the cancer, and now they were calling it some unusual kind of psoriasis, and the treatment is the same so the light therapy continues, but that was a load off my shoulders, to help with trying to find out what was making my dog deteriorate with some mystery cause. it doesn’t mean i don’t have the lymphoma thing, but at least i don’t have to know that i have it for now. One of the lab reports said it was eczema and not the cancer, the other one just listed off a bunch of possibilities of what it was and did not include the cancer, or eczema either.

i only gave Zack the Galliprant one time. He had increased panting and it lasted all night when normally he would sleep throughout the night. Heart failure has panting as a symptom, but he had never not slept all night before, or since. i will never give him Galliprant again, partly because i don’t like any medication that is long lasting, Galliprant is 24 hours. i would rather give it more frequently, like 3X a day, i just feel safer that way, though not convenient.
If he gets osteoarthritis or other pain from the musculo skeletal system, that’s different, i’d have to consider it, but if i did give him an NSAID, it would probably not be a 24 hour one, and one bloody vomit, it would be back to the drawing board.

i don’t fault my vet for wanting to try Galliprant because Zack seemed to be sore and stiff, she gave me her best advice and she did not invalidate my concerns and i will continue to go to her if needed. But if i had it to do over, i wouldn’t have given Zack that one 24 hour dose, he didn’t even have back pain, it turned out. What he had, as far as i know, just guessing, could be made worse by Galliprant. So it’s good that i was so scared of it all along.

As some other people have mentioned, when a pet is sick seriously enough to need a vet, part of the stress for many of us isn’t just these helpless babies dependent on us to find solutions and get them better, but also it’s expensive, and that just adds to the stress. I have dog pet insurance for Zack, i pay $145 a month, and i paid a similar amount his whole life, even though he was healthy and rarely went to the vet, but i knew he had that mitral valve disease bred into him, his breed, almost 100% will get mitral valve disease and 50% die from it by the age of 5 ! 🙁 We have been so lucky, his wasn’t symptomatic until he was 11-12, and pretty mildly, until June of this year, he’s going to be 13 in a couple of weeks, i thought he wasnt’ going to make it that far when that vet said it might be cancer of the abdominal wall.

So, his vet bills for the month of July came to $2700 paid upfront as i filed a claim. they pay 80%, but it took a month and a half for them to pay it, yay, they paid the whole 80% but i didn’t know until then how much they would pay. So stressful. now i can pay off the Care Credit balance , relief.

it’s so good that there is a discussion site for this subject, because for the many who need meds like Galliprant in their efforts to help their dogs have good quality of life, it’s important to be aware of potential adverse effects and to know what’s going on, even when some vets insist it can’t be the medications. It’s discussions like this one that are informative in a way that isn’t learned in medical school, to help both doctors and owners work together even when at odds to have the best result.

[Susan]

Hi,
you have a very smart dog, he knows what foods cause pain, nausea etc & now will not eat, my boxer was the same with dry kibbles & raw Kangaroo, if it smelt weird & caused any stomach/bowel problems she wouldnt eat it ever again, where Patch he keeps eating & eating foods that cause gas/farts, nausea, sloppy poos etc, I have to be a mind reader & work out what is causing his pain his acid reflux etc but when I first rescued him he didnt want any thing to do with dry kibble, when I offered it to him he’d just walk off, he liked cooked food, loaf rolls, raw meaty bones & wet can foods….

Slipery Elm has to be made into a slurry/paste, pull up into a syringe about 5ml =1 teaspoon & you give 20mins before a meal not with the meal…

Vitamin B12 (Cobalamin) Deficiency, has your dog B-12 been tested?
When Vitamin B12 is injected, the vitamin is readily absorbed by the blood and can get to work immediately. If your dog doesn’t have any problems with cobalamin malabsorption or there is no vitamin B12 deficiency, you can give oral supplements available in 100-, 250-, 500-, 1000-, and 5000-microgram tablets.
Ask your vet about him not having any apetite & can you do the weekly B-12 injection for 1 minth & see if there’s an improvement in his appetite a lot of ogs who have IBD EPI who have low appetites are givenB-12 weekly injections to make them want to eat….

Have you tried wet can foods or those good premium loaf rolls?? I know vet diets are expensive but next time you see vet get 1 can of Hills I/d Digestive Care Chicken & Vegetable stew. I have the I/d cans in the cupboard & the Royal Canine Intestinal Low Fat wet cans in the cupboard. https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-id-canine-chicken-and-vegetable-stew-canned
I rotate foods, I dont feed the same food for all of Patches 5 meals a day..
Are you feeding more then 2 meals a day? I know he isnt much of a eater but smaller meals of a few different foods thru the day he might want to eat them? a dry dog biscuit offered a few times a day, break biscuit in 1/2, we have a cat & as soon as Patch hear’s Indy getting something to eat he comes running to see if he can have some aswell & normaly he cant thats why the cat is getting the food cause Patch cant eat it.. she/cat is my garbage disposel bin..

I feed the Wellness Core Large Breed Adult dry for breakfast, Patch finally gained weight eating the Wellness Core & the cat keeps stealing Patches Wellness kibbles so they must taste good as she doesnt pinch any of Patches other dry kibbles, for lunch Patch use to get a small can of the Hills I/D chicken Rice & Vegetables wet food or 1/3 of the can of the Royal Canine Intestinal wet food but he kept getting his acid reflux on & off after eating the wet can vet diets & they’re low in fat so Id say its all the Omega oils, they are very high in Omega Oils so now Patch gets 2 big Dog Biscuits, My Boxer use to just look at food & gain weight she where Patch has problems keeping on his weight, I remember Angies vet asking me, what is she eating she’s over weight, she needed to lose 4kgs, she use to eat 1/2 of what Patch eats, she was bigger & he is smaller, I told vet she eats cooked meal, what we eat, & sometimes she eats some dry kibble but not much & she gets a dry dog biscuit maybe twice a day, the vet said do you know 1 of those dry dog biscuits is = to 1 Hamburger for a dog, I said what a Hamburger he said YES start halving her biscuit, so she is just getting 1 dog biscuit a day or completely stop these dru dog biscuits as they are high in fat, so now Im giving Patch 2 big dog biscuits for lunch everyday he loves them, I either feed the Purina Lucky Dog Biscuit Bones, Canidae dry Biscuits or you can get Hills Ideal balance Treats they’re smaller or Hills Vet Diet Hypoallergenic Biscuit treats.. https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/ib-soft-baked-naturals-with-chicken-and-carrots-dog-treats..
If you dont want to feed a wet can vet diet then look at Hills “Ideal Balance” Chicken & Zucchini slow cooked wet can food.. https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/ib-slow-cooked-chicken-and-zucchini-stew-adult-dog-food-canned#accordion-content-054167331-2
or look at Costcos Kirklands Signature Turkey & Pea Stew wet can food its very popular. Just make sure any wet can foods are 4% in fat not any higher, wet can foods fat protein fiber % havent been converted to dry matter yet so when you convert say 5% fat thats around 20%min to 26% max fat, so 4% min is around 12% fat min best to emal the pet food companies & ask them for max fat concerted to dry matter, they will give the exact max % you dont want to feed him foods that cause pain in stomach or wind pain in bowel then he will become more fussy….lean limited ingredient foods..
http://www.kirklandsignaturepetsupplies.com/natures-domain-brand

All Hills Science Diet wet & dry formula’s are very palatable if your dog refuses to eat then return to pet shop for a refund if you have bought a carton of wet can food, rotate, 1 day feed the Hills Ideal Balance for Dinner then the next day for Dinner he eats a different wet can food or try FreshPet Roll, Stew, Cooked Roasted meals?
https://freshpet.com/dog/freshpet-select

Still feed his Farmina dry food, Farmina is a good food, are you feeding him the LAMB DIGESTION N&D Quinoa Functional Canine formula & the N&D Quinoa Skin & Coat Venison formula
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop/dog-food/n&d-quinoa-functional-canine/429-digestion-lamb.html
its isnt rich or too dense like the other Farmina formula’s, my Patch gets his stomach pain as soon as a dry food is over 370Kcals per cup he whinges & wants me to rub his stomach/pancreas area…

What vet diet did he eat? maybe put him back on the vet diet & feed the matching wet can food rotate in his diet so he gains some weight & feed 4-5 smaller meals a day & give a few dry dog biscuits thru the day aswell as treats or as a dry dog bisciut as a snack before bed, eating then going to sleep gains weight…

I always ask Patch “Which One (kibble) do you want to eat” & I show him 2 different dry kibble brands in their air tight containers with their lids off, he sniffs the containers then he licks the side of the container that he wants to eat or I get out 1 kibble from 1 container & another kibble from the other container, I have 1 kibble in one hand & the another kibble in my other hand & I let him sniff them & ask him “which One”& he takes teh kibble he wants to eat, thru the day he eats about 3 different brands of foods… If I just feed him the same dry kibble day in day out he starts to react & gets his IBD stomach pain & starts whinging & lifts his right paw & wants me to rub his stomach area I thought he had Pancreatitis when I first rescued him, he has all the symptoms but now 5 yrs later Patches vets says he has Stomach pain its cause of his IBD…

If you join the “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” F/B group, go to their “Files” scroll down 11th pdf & click on “Digestive Sensitivity and Dog Size.pdf”
it’s research done on small breed dogs & large Breed dogs, what happens when these dogs eats the same dry kibble, how both breeds digest the same kibble different, now I know why Patch does heaps better with his IBD when he eats a Large Breed dry kibble the Large Breed kibbles have fibers formulated for large breed Intestinal tract so the dog doesn’t get bloat, the Large Breed dry formula’s seem to agree with Patch the best…..

[Amelia Z]

Here’s the ranges from UC Davis:
Plasma (nMol/ml)
Normal Range for dog 60-120
No known risk for deficiency >40

Whole Blood (nMol/ml)
Normal Range for dog 200-350
No known risk for deficienty >150
Now, for Golden Retreivers the whole blood should be greater than 250 per Dr. Stern. In case you’re not sure, your dog is not a golden (lol!!) Where did your vet get those numbers?
$424 is pretty good. I just paid $500 for Kodi’s and $635 for Auggie’s. I may be looking for another cardiologist. I am really pissed at her. Another long story.
I wasn’t on facebook either, who has the time? But I did join at the recommendation of Dr. Stern. There are multiple groups. This one mainly has information. check it out. I think you will be able to read it even though you don’t have a facebook account. The bottom of the page will ask you to log in but you can still scroll above and read the info.
https://www.facebook.com/taurineconcerns/?hc_location=ufi
I found out about the webinar from the pet food industry which I joined as well. (https://www.petfoodindustry.com/)
Here is the link to the FDA webinar:
https://register.gotowebinar.com/recording/viewRecording/7907909021732413698/2790714836158519809/[email protected]?registrantKey=6671839149515775500&type=ATTENDEEEMAILRECORDINGLINK
I actually agree with your vet about how the legumes effect the dogs system, which I stated above. That is funny about the cardiologist, what dog stays still? Kodi’s was shaking like a leaf and Auggie peed on them. (omg, both are embarassing!)
OMG, I would never feed Hills, Royal Canin, and Purina. Interesting how many people on the facebook that are switching to those foods. I just don’t get it. When you look at the ingredients, ugh!!
Anyway, I never heard of a Whoodle. I just looked it up and they are soooo cute! Talk soon!

[Sue H]

Melissa, I am so sorry that you that Jax was not treated sooner. When we started Crystal on Galliprant I read all I could find and also discussed potential side effects with my vet. Galliprant is like some of the NSAIDS and ibuprofen products used for people, things can happen very suddenly. My vet and I discussed what types of symptoms to watch for, and if any doubt, take her to the ER vet immediately, which is what I will do.

I would contact the company directly about what happened to your Jax. I would also ask if they will reimburse you for the meds. They are very expensive. If they do not, at least go online and apply for one of their rebates to get some money back to help with your vet bills.

I question my own doctors, as well as our vet. Our pets can not speak for themselves. Never be concerned about getting another opinion whether it is for a person or your pet. If something seems wrong, person should go to ER and dog should be seen at the ER vet. Better to have something investigated and treated than to wait.

Maybe you should get another opinion from another vet to see if there is anything that can help Jax feel better. Worth some phone calls.

[joanne l]

Hi, so sorry to hear this. Don’t worry there is light at the end of the tunnel. Since it seems that he may have IBS I would ask the vet about prescription food for now hoping he will eat it. It sounds like his tummy hurts and can’t eat but not sure just guessing. If this helps, I know a friend that has a GSD that was diagnosed with IBS and the food that worked like a charm was natures variety limited ingredient diet for him. But every dog is different. There is some kind of clay in this food that helps with IBS. look on this forum and see what is says about it, pull up the ratings and read were Mike goes through the ingredients and see what is said about this clay.

[Linda K]

Thank you for all your enthusiasm and kind words. It is SUCH a relief to know he’s OK. She wants to re-check taurine in six months. I asked her to re-check it with a whole blood test today, but she thought that was “premature.” Interestingly, she said normal plasma values are 60-120, but my vet said normal plasmacvalues are 120-160; when I asked her, she said 120-160 is normal range for whole blood! Have I already said I’m kicking my vet to the curb? My vet quoted $500 for the echo. By going to the university and the very cardiologist who would have done it at my vet’s office, the ENTIRE evaluation was $424! The echo was $224, and the rest was exam ($150) and cardiology technician fee ($30). So my vet was going to profit quite considerably from having the echo at his office.

I am not on Facebook. If I were, I fear I would never eat, sleep, shower, clean, or do any other thing! I’m embarrassed to say that I’d be nosing into everyone else’s business all day and all night!

My boy turned a year old yesterday, and he is a whoodle (1/2 poodle and 1/2 wheaten terrier). His name is Doc Pierce, which is also the name of the restaurant where my husband and I had our first date. My vet, whose opinion I don’t care about, claims that the legumes (peas especially) absorb the taurine, and they zip right through their system and come out in the dog’s poop. He thinks millet and barley can be used instead of the peas, alfalfa, potatoes, etc., so he thinks grain-free would be OK without peas, etc. Keep in mind, however, that he thinks Hills, Royal Canin, and Purina are stellar dog foods.

If the moderator needs me to agree to sharing my email address, (s)he can email me or check the post when I indicate I’d like to email directly. Or you can tell me how to email him/her.

Very interesting the FDA webinar. I’d like to watch it. Is there a way? And your dogs are indeed a classic example of how un-grain-free food responsible this panic appears to be. And how did you know about the webinar??

I want to share a funny thing about today. The cardiologist said my boy was “a little naughty” today during the echo. He’s a year and a day old. My thoughts went to things like he pottied on the table, or vaulted off the table, or tried to eat the stethoscope hanging around her neck, or tried to make friends with another dog on an adjacent table. Nope! He “was squirmy.” I had to stifle a giggle. I wonder how many dogs lie motionless during an echo.

Thanks again, my new friend, for all your thoughts, kind words, wisdom, calm demeanor, research, willingness to share, and everything you add to this panel. Rump scratches to Augie and Kodi!

[Linda K]

zcRiley, after many calls to my vet’s office with many earnest question and pleadings, many answers (and non-answers) that brought me much dismay, etc. I decided to call the nearby university to see how soon my boy could get an appointment with one of their cardiologists. To my amazement, there had been a cancellation, and I got an appointment the next day. That was today. My boy got a “complete cardiac evaluation.” It took almost all day, but the result is that he has no cardiac enlargement. She increased the taurine supplementation and wants to re-evaluate in six months. Of course she wants him to start on NOT grain-free food. I started that a week ago, and I’m very slowly weaning him onto it. How are your pit bulls doing on the Vetr-Science? Are the supplements chewable? The taurine supplement I give my boy is in capsule form, so I have to open the capsules and sprinkle it on food. He loves yogurt, so that’s what I mix the taurine with. I just read that you should only give your dog lactose free yogurt. I mentioned that to the cardiologist. She said I could give him small amounts (I use a tablespoon) of “regular” yogurt as long as it has no xylitol in it. I hope your pit bulls are doing very well. Incidentally, the cardiologist mentioned that my boy “was a little naughty” during the echo. I was thinking he pottied on the table, or, worse yet, launched himself off the table (he’s a 1 year and 1 day old puppy after all), or tried to make friends with the dog on the next cart. Nope, he “was squirmy.” I resisted the urge to ask how many times a dog getting an echocardiogram lies motionless….

[Amelia Z]

YEAH!!!! THANK GOD!! I am so glad for you. I was thinking about you guys all day. What a sigh of relief. Now you can sleep in peace! Did you tell her you switched foods already? Any followup with her needed? Don’t you hate when they talk to you like you are an idiot. Did you like her? So now you have to find a new vet. So when he is tested next time, tell them to do whole blood and taurine. Or will they do it there? My cardiologist does it, but I chose to have my vet draw it ($25) and I sent it directly to UC Davis ($151). The cardiologist wanted $289 and she was sending it to UC Davis anyway.
You know, they all say switch to grain free. I don’t believe that really is the correct thing. It is the legumes and/or potatoes that cause the problem (and that’s not 100% yet) So If you find a food that is still grain free and legumes/potato free it should be good. I don’t believe it is the grains that are helping this problem but rather the legumes that is absorbing the taurine. And aside from that, the FDA webinar form 9-4, they stated that there are more dogs getting DCM that are NOT taurine deficient than are. I noticed that on the taurine deficient facebook page. Are you on the page? They have a spreadsheet of hundreds of dogs. I studied it for hours and could see no common denominator. I am a good example of that. Both my dogs have low taurine, fed the same food and one has DCM and one doesn’t. I really think they are going nuts over this without enough conclusive evidence.
But in Auggie’s case, it was the low taurine and hopefully his heart will continue to shrink and be 100% normal.
BTW, I don’t think you mentioned how old your boy is and what breed and his name??
I did email the moderator to see if we can email directly but haven’t heard back yet. I’ll let you know. TAKE CARE & PARTY TONIGHT!!!!

[Susan]

Hi Rose,
you in Australia hello,

I would NOT FEED “Black Hawk” change it ASAP,
Black Hawk has been sold 4 times now & is no longer a family owned business it owned by Marster Pet Food in NZ & its made at the Dubbo Plant where “The Real Pet Food Company” makes all their bad cheap pet foods, The Real Pet food Company makes Baxters Woolworths generic brand, Baxter has been killing dogs since 2017 – 2018 last sick dog was 3 weeks ago Baxter wet can food go onto “The Australian Pet Reviews” site & his Face Book page, follow him & he tells us when Pet Food companies are getting heaps of complaints dying & sick dogs, look up Black Hawk on the “Australian Pet Food Reviews” site read all the people complaints, even Ivory Coat was sold Chinese bought 2017 Ivory Coat no longer family owned & its also made at the Dubbo Plant now…
Change his food this vet should of put your pup either on a vet diet or another brand dog food that’s the first thing you do when a dog keeps having diarrhea…

He shouldnt be on antibiotic for too long, have you tried “Protexin” yellow label probiotic Powder or I buy the “Yakult” pink Probiotic drink sold at Coles or Woolworths you get a 5 pack they’re in the fridge section, give your dog 1/2 a Yakult a day inbeween feeds, as he grows give him 1 yakult daily inbetween meals..
Probiotics are best taken on empty stomach..

Have a look at the Prime SKD rolls sold at Pet Barn in fridge section, there’s Crocodile & Tapioca, Kangaroo & Pumkin or Kangaroo & Potato..
Have you tried a raw or cooked diet & use “NAS Digestavite Plus Powder” to balance the dogs diet? instead of dry dog food?
https://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/Shop/product/digestavite-plus/

I DO NOT buy any Australian made pet foods NO more our Pet Food Companies are self regulated so anyone in Australia can make a pet food & do what they want, NO Recalls nothing, but when a pet food comes from Overseas, USA these Pet Food company MUST obey really strict laws, they have to prove where their meats are being sourced from etc to come into our country..but when a pet food is made in Australia these Australian Pet Food Companies do not need to do anything 🙁
We are trying to change our laws after over 100 dogs died after eating Advance Dermocare Nov 2017 – April 2018, there’s an senate inquiry about Australian pet foods at the moment..
Here’s a video, Plastic and other bits of rubbish put into pet food, insider reveals
after we had blue red pink plastic thru Applaws dog & cat food…. after you watch this you wont want to feed any dry pet foods..
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plastic-and-other-bits-of-rubbish-put-into-pet/9887958

Look at “Wellness Core Large Breed Adult” Grain Free has potato Potato & Sweet potato firms the poo or “Wellness Complete Health Large Breed Adult” has grains only sold Pet Barn store or Pet Barn Online store, shop online its cheaper & press Click & Collect & pick up from your nearest Pet Barn store, its cheaper to shop Pet Barns online store then buy Wellness from the pet barn store, these always sales online, join Pet Barns “Friends for Life” & get $10 off first order, free bath, free vet visit etc

If you want to fed a grain dry kibble then look at
“Eagle Pack” Large/Gaint Breed formula Eagle Pack is sold online Bomarang Pet Foods http://www.boomerangpetfood.com.au/eagle-pack-large-and-giant-breed-puppy-13-6kg/

Wellness Core Large Breed Adult, is formulated for large breed “stomach & bowel”, not to cause bloat, it has easy to digest ingredients, it’s high in Protein-34%, Low/med fat-13%, low kcals 345 per cup…
Wellness also has Probiotics to help stop diarrhea then reduce antibiotics after he is eating the Wellness Core Large Breed formula for 2 weeks.

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,
the link I posted is under the Lamb & Rice & Chicken & Rice Formula’s, in my post above…here it is again. Does it work?
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zpqq66i3w2twy7e/AADcuRPcpOOBkewPtXf7SAdSa?dl=0&preview=GoldenRetriever_Taurine_DCM.pdf

This study was done September/October 2005, By the Companion Animal Research Group.
Marie C. Bélanger, DVM,
MS, Diplomate ACVIM
Mathieu Ouellet, DVM
Guillaume Queney, PhD
Maxim Moreau, M.Sc.

Scroll down & you’ll see a pink table, this has the foods the 5 Labs ate..
When I looked at these formula’s ingredients, I noticed the first 5 ingredients had just 1 meat protein & it wasnt a meat meal & the rest of the first 5 ingredients were heavy with starchy grains & very little meat…
also in the link above they show a Table/chart of the family of golden retrievers who did this study the dogs who were diagnosed with taurine-deficient cardiomyopathy. It’s very interesting how only a few inherited DCM while the other dogs are carriers & carry the gen…

I think you need a diet that has more meat protein then starchy proteins in the first 5 ingredients, so the Taurine doesnt get blocked & the dog can aborsb the Taurine from these ingredients….I think is happening?? after reading all the research…

Crazy for Cats posted you a link about 2 weeks ago in the “Grain Free and Heart Disease” post posted by Aimee back in June, in this link Lynne D talks about Lamb & Rice formula’s interfering & causing low Taurine..
https://thebestdogtreats.com/taurine-deficiency-in-dogs-diseases-caused-by-amino-acid-deficiency#
The author is Lynne D she posted on DFA about 1-2 weeks ago thanking Crazy 4 Cats for posting her link for you to read & she posted another link, the one I’ve posted below…..
This is what Lynne writes:
The explanation of why researchers think lamb meal and rice diets are associated with an increased potential for taurine deficiency and DCM is a little long and detailed. You can reference the paper I listed in the above paragraph as well as a couple others by accessing my dropbox HERE. here’s the link.
https://thebestdogtreats.com/taurine-deficiency-in-dogs-diseases-caused-by-amino-acid-deficiency#

[Susan]

Hi Dendad,
What I noticed in the Taurine Test Result document that is in the Files of the “Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy” f/b group, all the dogs ate the same dog food 6months, some 1yr, their owners NEVER rotated their diet & feed them different brands….some owners added toppers like sardines, raw meats, eggs can food etc these foods didn’t seem to help some dogs, where some dogs who had toppers added to their dry diet their test results came back normal ??….

I recommend change your dog dry foods with the Seasons, so Spring has just sprung in Australia, if in American Autumn has begun, time to change your dogs food also your dog will love something new, something different, slowley introduce new food over 7-10 days with their old food…
If your dog has just been eating Freshpet more them 3-6months then look for another food if you’re looking for a dry foods make sure they have has at least 3 meat proteins, meat meals (Chicken meal, Chicken, Turkey, Turkey Meal, Lamb, Lamb Meal etc) as 1st 2nd 3rd ingredient, no high protein starchy carbs like Legumes in the first 5 ingredients…

It’s not only grain free foods that have caused heart problems, Lamb & Rice, Chicken Meal & Rice formula’s have come up in a study that was done when reversible taurine-deficient dilated cardiomyopathy occurred in five related golden retrievers, they ate
Natural Choice Lamb Meal & Rice Formula;
Eukanuba Natural Lamb & Rice Formula;
Eukanuba Adult Maintenance Formula Chicken;
Hill’s Science Diet Canine Senior Chicken;
Eukanuba Natural Lamb & Rice Formula;
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zpqq66i3w2twy7e/AADcuRPcpOOBkewPtXf7SAdSa?dl=0&preview=GoldenRetriever_Taurine_DCM.pdf

When you rotate with a Grain free & grain formula’s make sure there’s more meat proteins then starchy plant proteins…these pet companies have gotten gready & have replace the meat proteins with more starchy plant proteins to up the protein % & more money for the pet food companies…

Don’t feed a grain formula that has ingredients like this
Chicken, Whole Grain Wheat, Cracked Pearled Barley, Whole Grain Sorghum, Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, then “Chicken Meal”.
The Chicken meal is the 6th ingredient, this Hills dry formula has more starchy carbs, then meat proteins, I wonder if the Chicken meal was either 1st or 2nd ingredients followed by chicken ingredient, would this dry grain formula still have cause Left ventricular function at low end of normal, with a 2 yr old Golden Retriever & a 4yr old Golden Retriever?? again these 2 dogs were feed same food or 6-12mths owner never rotated their foods….

This is everything I am observing..

[pitlove]

@SpyCar

Again, I am disappointed in your post. What you posted is not proof. I have already done the research myself and my conclusion has not changed. I was looking for new information that I may have missed during my own studies. What you have provided is not worthy of an apology.

Your statements are most certainly slanderous, especially since you are posting them to a public forum where they can be viewed by any lay person. I’m sure in college you were taught the importance of finding credible sources when citing. This rule doesn’t change in real world application.

If you are unable to provide proof that by-products are being mishandled in the way you speak of, I will be forced to believe your statements are only fueled by emotion and bias hatred of the pet food industry. Not fact.

[Susan]

Hi Susan k,

like Crazy4Cats posted you cant copy & paste NO information it’s private…

Wellness Original formula you’re feeding was not on the list, NO Wellness formula’s were in in orange…the formula’s in Orange = DCM or CHF w/o low Taurine; “diet related”..

Are you on F/B join the “Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy” group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1952593284998859/
Then look in their “Files” for
“2018-09-07 Copy of Diet and Taurine.pdf”
then you can read all the info that’s been collected…..

everything is all good, also there were NO Cairn Terriers on the list..

[anonymous]

http://www.vetstreet.com/dogs/how-to-give-your-dog-a-pill
Even the friendliest, most easygoing dog can put up a fight when it’s time to take a pill. But it’s your job to make sure she takes the medicine she needs. The good news: You can employ a few tricks—and offer some treats—to get the job done. Read on for a step-by-step guide.
The Basics
If you know your dog doesn’t like swallowing pills, you can ask your veterinarian if the medicine comes in a chewable “treat” form or if it can be compounded, or changed into a liquid to make it easier to administer. But these options aren’t always available. If the medication must be given in pill or capsule form, you may need to experiment with different methods before finding one that works for you and your pet.
Follow Recommendations
When your veterinarian prescribes a medication, it’s important that you use only that medication, and that you treat your dog for the full length of time prescribed, even if your pet seems to have overcome the health problem. If you have any questions about how to administer the medicine, you can ask your veterinarian to demonstrate how to do it.
Specific Techniques
The easiest way to get your dog to take a pill or capsule is to hide it in a treat or in her food. But dogs are smart, and if they don’t like the taste or texture of the medicine, many will eat the treat or food and leave the pill behind. Another problem with this method: If you hide the pill in food, it may be hard to tell whether your dog has taken the pill on time—or at all—if she grazes throughout the day. To work around this, you can buy dog treats designed to hide pills. But before you give your dog medicine with her food, ask your veterinarian if it’s OK, since some medicines can’t be given with treats or food. You should also find out if there are any restrictions on what your dog can eat while taking the medicine.
If you want to give your dog the pill without hiding it in food, try the following technique, which many people find to be more reliable:

For a small dog, put one hand on top of your dog’s head, holding firmly—but not too tightly—so that the tips of your thumb and middle finger touch the corners of the mouth. For a large dog, put your hand on top of your dog’s nose and hold the upper jaw.
Tilt the head back.
Hold the pill between the first finger and thumb of your other hand. Use the tips of the other fingers of this hand to push down on your dog’s lower jaw to open her mouth. Be careful to place your finger on the short teeth at the very front of the mouth, not on the longer (canine) teeth at the corners.
If you have a large dog, you may be able to fold the upper lip over her teeth as you open the mouth, a trick that may keep your dog from closing her mouth.
Drop or quickly place the pill as far back in your dog’s throat as you can. Don’t push the pill down.
Hold your dog’s mouth closed and stroke her throat or blow on her nose to encourage swallowing.
Give your dog a reward, like a veterinarian-approved treat, for being a good patient.
When using this technique, be aware of your dog’s mood. If she gets agitated and seems likely to bite, stop and try again later or contact your veterinarian.
Restraining Your Dog
It’s often a good idea to have another person keep your dog still while you administer the medicine. But you can do it alone if there’s no one to assist you.
If you have a small dog, you can start by placing your dog in your lap. Put one arm—the one you will use to hold the head—over your pet’s shoulders, and use your upper arm and elbow to help keep her still, without using excessive force.

If your dog won’t stay in your lap, or is too big, you can use the same method while seated on the floor, either holding the front of your dog’s body partially against your body or on your lap. If you have a large dog, you can stand behind her and have her sit back against your legs. Sometimes it helps to back your dog into a corner.
If your dog struggles, talk to her calmly and stop what you’re doing if she becomes extremely agitated. Contact your veterinarian if you have questions or difficulty administering any medication.
This article has been reviewed by a Veterinarian.

[Susan]

Hi Dennis,
What breed is your dog??
Read this
https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2018/07/09/link-between-dog-food-taurine-deficiency-and-dcm.aspx

In Australia we have not been warned about Dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) nothing has been mentioned & no one seems to care…
I think its cause we are not getting the Dog Foods from America that were involved in this….. Even my vet said until we know more & whats happening just keep doing what your doing with Patch.

I want to try the NEW Canidae, Grain Free PURE Ancestral™ Red Meat Formula Raw Coated Dry Dog Food, Ive been waiting & waiting to try Canidae’s new Ancestral formula, Canidae keep telling me 3 weeks, then they say another 3weeks they have more paper work to hand in etc etc cause we have very strict laws when any new dog foods come into Australia they have to pass or new food is NOT allowe into the country aaaaaarrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhh

The Canidae Ancestral Red Meat formula the lentils are 7th ingredients so there isn’t more then 20% Legumes or any starch carbs in the first 5-6 ingredients, this Ancestral formula has more meat protein then Plant Proteins same as the Canidae Grain Free PURE Ancestral™ Avian Formula, Raw Coated Dry Dog Food, With Quail, Chicken & Turkey … rotate feed, feed 1 formula for Breakfast & another formula/brand for dinner so she doesnt get bored….

Read the link I posted above & keep rotating between different brands & make sure meat proteins are 1st, 2nd, 3rd ingredient so you have more meat proteins & less starchy plant proteins..
This is the Canidae Ancestral raw formula I want to try..dogs would love this…
https://www.canidae.com/dogs/canidae-grain-free-pure-ancestral-raw-coated-dry-red-meat-formula-with-lamb-goat-wild-boar/